WEBVTT - How to Inspire Hope with Ilyse Hogue 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.960 Today's quote is from a Wall Street Journal piece by 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:08.280 Betsy Morris called why does Zoom exhaust you? Science has 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:17.000 an answer. She says, communication is an exquisite interplay of talk, gestures, movement, 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:22.920 and timing between people that scientists call synchrony. This complex 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.080 interaction is so basic that researchers who discovered it between 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:31.120 adults later found it happens in newborns and infants movements 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.400 synchronize with the speech of its caretaker as early as 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.320 the first day of life. The synchrony found in face 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.520 to face communication is possible over video in ideal circumstances, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.880 According to a yet unpublished dissertation by Jinging Han, who 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.839 recently received a doctorate in Media Arts and Sciences from 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.880 Indiana University, but she too finds zoom to be exhausting. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:02.320 She suspects that's because human are driven to achieve synchrony 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.560 and work hard cognitively to achieve it. On zoom quote, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.560 we are working very hard to synchronize with each other, 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.920 she says, and that will be the next phase of 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:24.960 her research. Working hard there you go. Welcome to Permission 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.720 to Speak, the podcast about how we talk and how 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:36.959 we get ourselves heard with me. Samar Be. Today's guest 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.320 is a lease Hogue. She is a lifelong activist and 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:47.600 organizer with a true gift for making big, abstract ideas 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:52.560 feel like really personal and really human. For the last 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:56.360 seven years, she's been the president of NEY Oral Pro 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.520 Choice America, which is the other massive organization alongside UH 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.520 Planned Parenthood that advocates for reproductive justice at the national level. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.920 UH Near all by the Way has tripled its membership 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.080 under her leadership to two point five million people, and 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.840 it's been front and center at the fights to reunite 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.560 families at the border, which is something that we talked 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:23.680 about in this interview UH the Kavanaugh hearings where she 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.359 literally over text was giving me my marching orders here 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.400 in l A. And I mean obviously in the fight 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.400 to push back against this insane wave of abortion bands 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.720 at the state level over the last few years. She 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.080 also made history when she spoke about her own abortion 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.760 on the stage of the Democratic National Convention, in which 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.640 obviously I asked her all about here. I wanted to 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.760 have a lease on because she is a friend, but 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:55.519 she is a powerhouse, an inspiration and honestly a true leader. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:00.800 When we are so desperate or I maybe I'm so 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:05.639 desperate for someone to look up to. I mean, right, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.480 we talk very specifically about how to find hope, like 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:15.839 not fake hope in our somewhat dystopian crisis. Um. How 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.640 she thinks about public speaking, which for any activists or 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:24.880 would be activists listening in or politicians coming up her perspective, Uh, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.120 totally blew my mind. And we also talked about her 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.919 new book that just came out, The Lie That Binds 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.960 about how abortion became such a Whig issue anyway, I mean, 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.760 the answer has to do with a conference call that 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.600 changed everything. Fun fact, Alice is married to John Neffinger, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.880 who I had on the podcast back in March. So 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.560 this is my first permission to speak power couple of guys. Uh. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:55.240 And the second fun fact Elise and I met through 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.400 some mutual friends when I was living in d C 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.160 for this summer two years ago. Uh, dialect coaching gal 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.840 Gado on the new Wonder Woman movie, which we like, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:08.960 took over the city and we're shooting, you know, everywhere. Basically, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.440 what I'm trying to say is that my version of 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.320 our nation's capital is all about Wonder Woman. Etil's hoag Uh. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:28.839 Which feels pretty synonymous. This is the last UM, I 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.440 kind of wanted to ask you first, Um, the question 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.039 that you've been asking of what are you doing to 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:41.560 stay sane? Um? You know what, it sounds silly. Um. 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.400 Partly what we've been doing to say stay sane is 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:48.160 a lot of family dance parties. UM. My kids are 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.360 really into family dance parties. And then, UM, I make 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.120 sure that I schedule at least at least one meeting 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.240 a day that is not on zoom, that is only 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.599 on phone, so I can get an hour of walking 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.040 around outside in a day at least. Do you do 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.279 you feel like you think differently while you're walking, Like, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.840 do those conversations end up going differently? Yes? I do. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.960 I think that. Um. You know, like change of scenery 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.800 and change of perspective is actually crucially crucially important in 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.320 the ability for us. You know, we all get in ruts, 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.000 we all sort of tell ourselves the same stories, and 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.840 it's really hard to change that. So any sort of 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:35.040 difference in our external environment will will catalyze differences in 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.560 our internal sort of monologue, and that's really important to 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.159 make sure. I don't know, Also, it sounds like both 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.960 of those things, um have to do with physically moving 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.840 as well. And there's something about like the you know, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.880 the deep wisdom of our bodies that we sometimes forget 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.200 when we're sitting all day well, and I think we 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.839 forget how deeply connected our voice is to the rest 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.039 of our body, right that we cannot actually have a 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:05.400 powerful voice if we have a body that doesn't feel powerful, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.960 how whatever that means to us. You know, people have 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.960 different abilities do that in different ways. But we have 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.840 to be focused on the idea of what makes me 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:19.400 feel physically powerful, emotionally powerful, spiritually powerful. All of that 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:24.560 coalesces into how our voice is projected and hurt in 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:29.080 the world. Well, And not to get like super patriarchy 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.000 from the beginning, but I think it is a massive 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.400 patriarchal move to try to separate our brains from our bodies. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.840 I mean, so much of our wisdom does not live 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:38.760 in our head, and if we think it does and 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:47.400 only does, then like we're somewhat fucked professionally. I couldn't 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.400 agree with you more. I couldn't agree with you more. Um. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.560 I want to talk about your Democratic National Convention speech 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:59.320 in you got on the stage in a stunning reddress 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.640 and said this, this quote that I think has resonated 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.320 with you know, the country for years now. It's not 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.679 as simple as bad girls get abortions and good girls 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.400 have families where the same women at different times in 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.440 our lives, each making decisions that are best for us. 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:20.840 What was your decision to give that speech? It boiled 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:28.480 down to, with the platform comes privilege, and therefore I 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:33.200 have to use this opportunity to speak to my own 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.240 personal experience as emblematic of such a common experience in 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:42.120 this world. And also not just that these sort of 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.480 things that we're talking about our theory, they're not theory, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.680 they're deeply, deeply personal. Um. That being said, that was 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.880 a real journey for me. As I tell people, it 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.160 was never on my bucket list to get on a 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.360 stage in front of millions of yours and uh tell 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.200 some of the most innermost personal experiences of my life. Um. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.840 And you know, I look forward to a day where 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.480 nobody has to do that for policy to reflect the 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:13.560 right ethical and public health outcomes. But um, you know 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:15.600 I did it. And and the thing that I always 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.360 tell people because it feels important to me is, um, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.440 it was terrifying, right, Like I don't want people to 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.480 be like, Oh, she's just so brave and courageous that 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.600 she could do that. It was absolutely terrifying. It was 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.960 one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. Um So, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:35.200 confronting that fear because I knew that it was an 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.320 opportunity and an imperative for me to do so, has 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.679 been a tremendous growth experience. Um But I don't want 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.160 to leave anyone with the impression that I just sort 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:48.360 of sauntered up there without fear, completely comfortable in my 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.920 own skin, and gave that speech. Was it scarier like 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.000 in the lead up or in the moment or after? 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.960 Like what was your relationship with that, with that fear? 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.280 How did it move? No, I will say in the 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.320 lead up it was definitely the most scary. And you know, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.680 like you have the stage and you've convinced yourself that 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.160 you know the privilege and the responsibility pieces there, and 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.520 then you're like, well, if I floob it, it's not 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.920 just me flobbing it, but it's everything I stand for 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.800 and all of that, and you know, I you know, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.240 I'm in a business where backlash is sort of part 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:31.880 of the daily experience, but that felt like even greater exposure. UM, 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:36.480 so I will say, uh, I definitely kept my eyes 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.960 trained on the Texas delegation in the convention hall because 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.480 I'm in Texans and I know where I sort of 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.080 draw my power. It's from my people rooting for me, 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.400 and they were, um and you know, like many things 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.840 when we confront our fears, they turned out to be 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.319 incredibly empowering. And so the aftermath was actually lovely. And 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:01.240 that what I found is that by exercising my own 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:06.479 voice that I um in that way, that I catalyzed 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.160 other people wanting to participate in their own ability to 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.600 tell their own stories. And there was a piece on 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.240 Scary Mommy, which is this mothering blog. Um, I know 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:18.880 you know, but I don't know if your listeners know. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.360 I love it again, incredibly well read. Um. You know 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.920 about four days after my speech with a mother saying 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.880 I'm a Republican, I had an abortion and I'm tired 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.920 of feeling ashamed of it. I want to use my 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.840 voice to tell my story. And to me, that was 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.880 all the payback I needed, the idea that my voice 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.920 could help catalyze someone else finding their own. Yeah, and 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:48.920 that's why we do scary things. UM. I also met 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.679 you the day that I then walked with you to 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:57.360 a rally in d C. The summer of first met me, 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.520 I physically met you. I didn't know you through the 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:04.680 internet little bit before that. Uh. And and it was 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.679 the summer that we all found out about, UM, what 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.640 was going on at the border and the families being separated. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.800 And I had reached out to attend a rally to 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.880 ask you, you know, as the knower of all things 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.000 in d C. And you said, I'm actually speaking at 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.120 this one. And and I walked with you and your 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.640 kids and then you, I'm sure remember what happened with 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.839 one of your children during during that rally? Do you will? 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:30.400 You will you tell me what it felt like to 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.840 be doing that? So UM what smarts referring to I 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.520 was speaking at a rally on family separation. UM. I 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.760 often do not take my children to these events, but 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:45.239 we chose to. My parents were in town, and UM, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.600 during my speech, my son, who was then and remains 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:54.079 quite some quite sort of sensitive and empathetic, UM, I think, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.880 was overcome by the emotion of the crowd and started 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.320 wailing and walked up to me. While I was on 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.240 microphone whiling, and I'm a mom, So I picked him up. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.400 I comfort him. That's what I do. And um, it 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.679 felt very important to me to acknowledge that momentum again 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.720 as one of privilege, but as one that I felt 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.560 like so many people couldn't relate to, which is, here's 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:22.840 my son, he's crying, he needs comforting. The simple privilege 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.679 of being able to pick him up and hold him 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.120 and comfort him is something that was being denied to 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.720 so many parents in that moment who were undergoing an 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:40.000 excruciating and special form of torture and hearing their children 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.840 wail from other rooms and not be able to comfort them. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:50.240 And my hope was that that fundamental common experience that 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.960 we all share, regardless of what our political affiliation is, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:59.160 regardless of anything, could ground us and what was really 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.480 being lost to that moment, not only for those individual 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.040 parents who are undergoing that torture, but for a collective 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.079 soul as a nation. How did you prepare for that? 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.800 And how do you prepare for these sort of rally 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.360 type speeches that feel like there's an element of sort 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.600 of off the cuff and like bullet points that you're 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:19.400 used to talking about, But how do you sort of 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.839 collect your mind before these because they're all they're all, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.199 they're not they don't always have your son in your arms, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.760 but they all are somewhat emotionally fraught due to the 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.440 nature of your job. It's true, um, and I think 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.720 we all sort of gravitate towards different mediums for communication, right, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.240 Like the expectation of my profession is that I will 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.640 speak at rallies, I will engage in debates, I will 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.760 go on TV, and those are all different for me, 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:52.400 and I actually experienced different anxieties around each one of them. Um. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.480 I am an extreme extrovert. So actually speaking to rally 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.040 crowds is more comfortable to me. Not that I don't 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.120 get nervous. I always get nervous, but it is more 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.240 comfortable to me because I can and real time feed 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.280 on the energy of the crowd, as opposed to being 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.040 locked in a little television studio which is a camera 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.000 trained on you and not knowing what if what you're 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.000 saying is resonating in any way. Um, but you know 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:20.320 it's it has become really important to me to remember that, um, 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.000 my energy is as important to what the crowd will 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:29.040 experience as my words. Right, So what I'm projecting in 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:35.240 terms of my own emotional landscape and emotional experience, UM 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:41.160 is going to catalyze a response that is probably going 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.880 to supersed the words that are coming out of my mouth. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.440 And so UM. It's not that words are unimportant, because 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.960 words are very important. And I do prepare, although I 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.120 really don't script out rally remarked because I think there 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.800 is an important element of spontaneity there and um and 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.080 relating to people in real time. But I really think 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.480 you know, when we were fighting Kavanaughs confirmation, and it 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.360 was so long, and it was so hard, and it 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.320 was so painful for so many people. UM, My, my 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:20.600 preparation was about legitimately, legitimately not faking it, being able 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:27.040 to express hope, optimism, and um, the sense of power 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:32.800 that came from being incollective engagement with so many different 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:37.360 people that would pay dividends beyond this single confirmation. Not 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.680 that the confirmation was unimportant, It was hugely important. But 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.640 I really wanted people to understand because the odds were 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.960 stacked against us, right, that even if we lost the 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.640 vote count on this confirmation, they could never take away 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:56.080 from us what we had experienced. Through this collective fight 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.680 together and how that would change the landscape of everything 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.920 politically and socially moving forward. And so when I thought 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.920 about my speeches for those rallies, it became hugely important 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.880 to be able to authentically express that two people, because 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.360 when we disengage, when we cease to use our voices 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.600 in our energy in charting out of future of hope 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:26.200 and optimism, the other side winds. Yeah. And you know, relatedly, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.200 just for each of us in our own lives, if 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.520 we're not talking about you know, high level events with 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.360 the stakes as high as you're talking about, but just 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.200 literally speaking up for ourselves in a meeting or trying 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:37.560 to tell people what we do in a way where 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.240 we're actually connected emotionally to how much we care about 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.560 what we do. Uh. There are some lessons there as well, 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.440 in terms of like not going just for teaching people information, 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.360 but for inspiring them that you're that you're talking about, 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.000 you know, sort of thinking differently about what it is 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.560 to communicate that it isn't just words connected to ears, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.640 but that it's like feelings and humans connect to humans absolutely. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.119 I mean, that's what we have. That's our superpower, you know, 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.600 I say this all the time, regardless of whether you 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.919 work in the sort of corporate America or um, you know, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:21.200 cultural theater and entertainment or politics like I do. Our 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.000 superpower is the fact that we can inner weave this 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.359 tapestry of voices together. That demonstrates the breadth and depth 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.320 of what it means to center stories of the majority 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.840 in a way that the powers that be who are 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.640 fighting for the status quo and resisting change, they'll never 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.600 have that because their stories are monolithic, their voices are monolithic. 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.840 They're often is passionate in a moment where people are 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.920 crying out for passion to catalyze change. And so we 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:56.280 should never tamp down our emotions in the ways that 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.600 we tell our stories and use our voices, and by 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.399 the way that in and of itself challenges one of 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.480 the prevailing notions of the patriarchy that emotions are bad, right, 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.679 that um we you know, somehow our emotions make us weaker. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.399 That that is a story they have fed to us 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:19.200 for hundreds of years to keep us down. That our 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:25.800 ability to tap deep into our emotions to channel a 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.679 different future, that is our superpower. We should always use it. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.040 I mean everything you're saying is making me cry, so 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.199 obviously I'm following you into that future. Um. There's this 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.760 element of public speaking, stereotypically for women, although I know 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.440 many men deal with this too, that when we're up 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.200 on a stage or whatever the metaphor is now, when 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.639 we're all eyes are honest in a zoom meeting. God knows, 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.960 when there's no public to speak in. Um that uh, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.080 instantly we're worried about ourselves, and this the you know, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.760 all of the anxieties come up, and often the answer 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.600 is to reconnect to the why why we're speaking and 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:09.360 the for the for them. Yes, And I wonder if 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.239 this is something that you think about when you're you know, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.200 up there. It sounds like certainly in terms of getting 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.119 energy from the crowd, but that there's this idea of 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.960 speaking up for those without a voice and very vulnerable positions. 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.080 And then there's also this idea that it's freeing to 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.440 speak to hear our voice when we know it's for others. Yeah, 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.320 I think that's right. I'm you know, at risk of 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:37.359 being a little bit contrarian. Um. Well, I do understand 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.400 and lean into the privilege that comes with that platform. 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.440 I actually don't really think of it as speaking up 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.520 for other people as much as creating space and hopefully 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.919 incentive for people to speak for themselves. UM. You know 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.200 a little known fact about me is that I'm an 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.760 ecologist by trade, and UM, early on I learned that 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.560 the strongest systems are the ones that actually embraced diversity 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.320 and work together towards a common goal. And so UM, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.119 the way that I, you know, the way that I 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:14.280 think about that is how can I UM model for 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.320 people who are reticent to speak the fact that speaking 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:22.960 up is liberating? Speaking up is actually UM where we 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:27.320 tap into our greatest power, and then, when offered the stage, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:32.320 try and expand that stage for more voices. UM, because again, 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:38.480 in the collective lies our ultimate strength. I'm also an organizer, 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.159 and so you know, I've I've worked on lots of 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:46.320 different issues throughout the year's democracy, reform, climate change, human rights, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.359 and I see, UM working on reproductive freedom is very 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:52.679 much a part of human rights. UM. But you know 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:54.920 a lot you know, when people ask me what drives 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.000 me as an organizer, A lot of it is actually 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:04.680 that incredibly powerful feeling when you see someone who felt 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.320 like they couldn't exercise their own power and their own 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.040 voice actually realize that they can. You know, one of 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.840 the greatest things that we heard coming out of the 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.119 cabin off fight UM was so many people saying, if 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:24.120 Dr Christine Blasi Ford could use her voice in such 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:29.960 an incredibly challenging situation, surely I can pick up the 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.320 phone and call voters or knock on doors, even though 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.360 that gives me great anxiety. And one of the things 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.520 I always tell people who choose to engage in canvassing 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:44.000 for elections is, yeah, it's hard. Knock on that door, 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.000 pick up that phone, make that phone call, and make 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.320 sure that you are telling people why you are doing it, 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:53.040 because people are going to be motivated by the fact 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:57.520 that you, who they've never met, is confronting your own fears, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.800 taking time out of what everybody has as a very 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.440 busy schedule, and spending it this way. So the idea 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:09.240 of being able to sort of create a contagious effect 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.159 around that excitement and empowering from UM using your voice 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.239 that it's deeply motivating to me. I feel like you're 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.160 on a first name basis with every leader in Washington, 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.679 d C. When you think about like sort of the future, 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:25.200 if you were to talk to somebody who wanted to 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.000 run for office or become a career advocate, what do 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:33.280 you think is required of their public persona question mark 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:37.080 term something voice. Uh. In terms of the of of 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.639 what sort of rules are required, it sounds like the 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:42.080 main one that you're talking about is about connecting to 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.120 our bodies, connecting to our sense of inspiration, the why. 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.000 But I also wonder if we're talking really technically and 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.119 knowing that, um, we had your husband on this show, 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.080 do you have advice for for sort of how to 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.479 think about what it is to scale up these versions 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.959 of ourselves that aren't necessarily like the most you know, 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:06.000 straight white male versions of ourselves. You know, running for 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.720 office is a really intense experience, as I've observed. I've 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.199 never run for office myself, and you know, to be 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.080 quite frank, it's not an aspiration of mine. UM. I 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.399 think there are all sorts of way to ways to 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:20.920 find an express power, and you don't have to sort 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.119 of run profice to do that. That being said, I 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.480 am a big fan of people that choose that path 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:31.080 because we absolutely need great people in um office at 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.199 the state and federal level to affect change. UM. You know, 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:38.639 I think a know that no from the outset, that 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.520 your entire life is going to be scrutinized, right, and 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:45.280 in fact find that an empowering experience when I think 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:51.000 of some of the amazing leaders that have emerged, Um, 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.080 you know, just since Trump, and I could go back 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:55.280 before that, because I have lots of role models and 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:59.280 icons who predated Trump, Barbaraly being one of them. But 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:05.240 you know, if you think about and Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:10.720 but even Hayley Stevens, who actually shares almost nothing demographically 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.600 or in terms of her district, what I see is 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.000 people who are proud of the lives that they lived, 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:24.160 bringing their full selves to their election campaign with no apologies. 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.520 And what I think voters respond to is a combined 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:33.399 sense of authenticity, pride in the way you've lived your life, 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:39.359 and an openness to hearing their own lived experience and 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.359 welcoming their voices into the debate. And so I just 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.640 really love that idea that instead of sort of shrinking 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:49.560 and fear that your whole life is going to be 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:53.400 exposed if you run for office, be like great, we 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:56.600 all make mistakes, none of us are perfect. In fact, 0:24:56.600 --> 0:24:58.720 that people who decided they were going to run for 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.359 office from the I'm they were five years old and 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.200 lead their whole life carefully. Are the least interesting ones, right? 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.280 And so what does it actually mean to embrace that 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:12.960 as a positive and empowering thing and use your voice 0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:16.240 as powerfully to talk about the mistakes that you have 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.720 made because we all make them, as well as the 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.760 lessons you've learned and the things you're deeply proud of 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.640 in your life. I think that is really what both 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:30.760 voters and our country is responding to in this moment um. 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:33.800