1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: thing you are not. I will go to the music 3 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: you're hearing is the biggest song by one of the 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: biggest bands in the world of the last forty years. 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: In the eighties, r e M was the epitome of 6 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: the artful alternative band, producing a string of beautiful, if 7 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: occasionally inscrutable albums and slowly evolving over time. But then 8 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: came the album Out of Time, ri E M's true 9 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: arrival as global rock stars, writing largely on the strength 10 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: of Losing My Religion, which was in constant notation on 11 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: TV and radio throughout The record is now being reissued, 12 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: and it was the moment lead singer Michael Stipe stepped 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: out with a bit more confidence into his role as 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: front band. Both intensely private and flamboyantly public, Stipe led 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: the band through twenty more years of bold experimentation, massive success, 16 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: and the occasional misstep, but never insincerity. RI E M 17 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: disbanded in two thousand eleven, and for the last five years, 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: Stipe has channeled his new time and energy into photography, teaching, 19 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: and politics, and while his songs will almost certainly last 20 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: in the cultural memory for a very long time. Stipe 21 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: himself has even longer term ambitions, like living until he's 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty. I think that, you know, I 23 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: think the way things are advancing, it would be possible 24 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: to live a happy life well into your hundreds. If 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: was the outer edge and you go to one years, 26 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: what are all things you want to do in those 27 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: twenty five years? I would hope that I inherited from 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: my mother a great curiosity about the world, and I've 29 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: watched her age and remain curious and want to keep 30 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: learning and growing. And I would hope that I would 31 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: have that you were an army child. Ye, army Brad, 32 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, army. I'll let you say Bratt was 33 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: most of the nurture and so forth from your mom 34 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: because she was she was she more on the scene 35 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: and Dad was gone all the time. Did you pick 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: up things from him to He came and went a lot. 37 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: But what what being an army Bratt did to myself 38 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: and my sisters was to create probably a closer family 39 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: dynamic than regular people have, because we picked up and 40 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: moved so much that we were we were the foundation. Um. 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: It made you closer. It made us much closer and 42 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: so a very very very lucky man in their regard. 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm one of the ones who I like I landed, 44 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: like I got the gold ring. And when it comes 45 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: to family, yeah, I mean you you have two sisters, 46 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: two sisters, so the three of your total, and on 47 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: a day around you see them where they or they 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: often like Alaska and Fiji were the whole family lives 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: in Athens, Georgia, and they're in Athens. I know Athens. 50 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: I know Athens yea. And that it wasn't Mike was 51 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: Mike from Athens, Mike Mills actually from Macon. We all met, 52 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: we were from we all met a new g a 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: um of the places I read that you lived when 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: you were moving around in Europe and in the South, 55 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: and so was there one place you stayed the longest. 56 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: You're a recollection of memory of a place you were in. 57 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: Remember Germany? Yeah? I remember Germany more than anywhere really. 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: I think Germany and then well it's hard to say, 59 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: because I'm um, I kind of see everything, so but 60 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: then I don't really remember everything. But Germany was for 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: me a time that I feel like I remember almost 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: every single day that we were there. Which was about 63 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: just under two years. How old were you seven and eight? 64 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: How old were you when you'd say, I'm not a 65 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: musician and I don't play music, but I feel like 66 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: I have, you know, Elvis lives inside me, you know, 67 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: I have. I have this desire like everybody everyone, which 68 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: is they could sing and get up there and perform 69 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: and have that effect on people. And you'd hear MacArthur park, 70 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: you know, Richard Harris would sing McArthur and and I go, god, 71 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: I remember listening to that song on a transistor radio. 72 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: And I go back and look up the date and 73 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: I go, oh my god, I was nine. It's so 74 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: much younger. It's in you so much younger. Can you 75 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: can you remember when how old you were when you 76 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: let that in and starts? What a great song to reference. 77 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of those really insanely bizarre pop 78 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: songs that you know, here's a guy that doesn't sing, 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: he's he's a drunk most of his life, he's a 80 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: he's brilliant, and for some crazy, for some reason, the 81 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: songwriter tags him to sing this insanely beautiful song about 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: nothing about a cake with green icing that's melting in 83 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: the rank it's really it's you know when you win 84 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: in Yeah, I love that song and I love the song, 85 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: and the guy who wrote it was one of one 86 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: of our great American songwriters, Jimmy Webb. I did. I 87 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: did an interview with him once for a book that 88 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,559 Speaker 1: he wrote in and he called me on the phone 89 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: to talk about songwriting and we had an hour to 90 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: talk and I couldn't get a word in edge twice 91 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: he talked the entire time. I couldn't wait for the 92 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: book to come out to see what I had said 93 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: because I don't remember having said anything. It was pretty 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: pretty good. But but do you remember, like an age 95 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: was it was your time in your life when you 96 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: remember when music came in, music comes in. It was 97 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: always there. Um My my earliest members before the my 98 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: kind of ground zero point was at the age of 99 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: fifteen when Patti Smiths and I bought it the day 100 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: it came out. But prior to that, the songs that 101 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: really resonated with me on radio or um the Banana Splits, 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: the Archies, Um. You know, it was really kind of crappy, 103 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: beautiful pop music, The Monkeys, The Monkeys. I didn't have 104 00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: a brother or sister who turned me on to the 105 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,559 Speaker 1: and and and Alice Cooper and um, the Rolling Stones 106 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: of the Beatles, where my bandmates did have that. I 107 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: listened to what kids listened to and what the cereal 108 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: boxes were telling you was music. Um, But following that, 109 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: it was really Benny in the Jets by Elton John 110 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: and the song um, Hey Kids, boog you too, jump 111 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: Up and Down and Blues Wait Shoes rock On by 112 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: David which I kind of rewrote as a song drive 113 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: on automatic for the people. It opens, it opens that record, 114 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: and um, I rewrote that song. I rewrote a bunch 115 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: of songs from the seventies and songs that I remembered. 116 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: Like Everybody Hurts was my take on Love Hurts. Kind 117 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: of a direct left there, but but it turned into 118 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: a very different song. And do you learn to play 119 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: an instrument? I played accordion when I was well. I 120 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: wanted to play Oregon, but um, we couldn't afford the 121 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: next instrument up, so I wound up with an accordion 122 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: and I played quite well. You weren't accomplished a communists. 123 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: You could have been on Sullivan now when No. But 124 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,559 Speaker 1: but as many people they're entry into music is whether 125 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, they pick up a guitar and there's 126 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: obviously a discipline, a curiosity. I'm always mesmerized by this 127 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: by men and women who they pick up a guitar 128 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: when they're nine an ten years or they just start 129 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: to explore that or beyond that. In a more traditional way. 130 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: Someone's parents are saying, sit down at that piano and 131 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna do this lesson for a year and grind 132 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: them down until they break through and they can really 133 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: play the piano. Then they're grateful that they have this 134 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: skill that attracts all these people. Um, was there anything 135 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: like that for you? There was no formal musical training none, 136 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: So thus you knew is it safe to us him? 137 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: Did you always know you wanted to be a singer? No? No, Um. 138 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: The whole the whole idea of punk rock was that 139 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: anybody could do this. That it was. It wasn't this 140 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: kind of holy handed down from on high talent or skill. Um. 141 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: And I was and remained quite literal. And so when 142 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: they said anybody can do this, I said, okay, I'll 143 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: do it. And I guess I was too lazy to learn. 144 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: And you believe that everybody, anybody can do it? Absolutely 145 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: not much. What changed? Everybody can't sing, but I don't 146 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: really want to hear it right? Um? What changed? When 147 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: did you realize you could sing? Well? Honestly, about ten 148 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: years ago. I realized that my voice was that specific. 149 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: I never through most of our career. I didn't understand 150 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: why people liked my voice or thought or could not could. 151 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: I just didn't know that my voice was that different. 152 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: And it's a very different voice. It's a very recognizable voice. 153 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: So when you were singing in the in the beginning 154 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: of your career, it was awful. We were We were terrible. 155 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: I mean I sang rockabilly. You mentioned Elvis Presley earlier. 156 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: I was singing in this kind of hiccup. Elvis Presley's 157 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: style probably inspired by The Cramps. I I loved Lux 158 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: Interior and I loved the Cramps, and I saw them 159 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: perform on I think one of the first shows they 160 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: ever did outside of New York City, and um, and 161 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: I thought he was just amazing and they were incredible. 162 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 1: So I kind of picked up that rock and belly thing. Um, 163 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: but I don't think I really developed a voice until 164 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: my Well, people that love murmur would argue with that 165 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: but anyway, I didn't feel confident with my voice until 166 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: probably the third or fourth album, which was six years in. 167 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: When you were at U g A with the other three. 168 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: What do you think that they saw on you that 169 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: they picked you for that job? Well, it sounds arrogant 170 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: to say it, but charisma. It was that that that 171 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: Genese quad that we all know when someone walks into 172 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: a room or and when I walk into a room, 173 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't have that, but when I'm on stage performing 174 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: with that band behind me, it was. It just was 175 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: the chemistry between all of it. Really, when you open 176 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: your mouth and saying those songs with those guys, or 177 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: something happened you believe that. How did you find each other? Clubs? 178 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: Record store? Record store? You saw Mills and a record store. 179 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: Peter Buck and he looked really cool and a lot 180 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: of people back then didn't look really cool, but he 181 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 1: looked really cool. And um, he would you know, he 182 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: would turn me on to different records that that would 183 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: come into the store and and like Suicide, the first 184 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: Suicide album, we hit it off and um, and then 185 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: I had to convince him to start a band with me. 186 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: What was it about horses that appealed to I can't say, 187 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: I mean outside of you know, I had really good taste. 188 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: As it turns out. I mean, it's one of the 189 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: greatest records I ever made. And I did buy it 190 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: and listened to it on the day that it was released, 191 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: which is kind of crazy. But you've spoken about the 192 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: cover art appealed to you too, Yeah, I mean it's 193 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: an incredible image. But she represented something other and something 194 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: to me alien, and part of that was this this 195 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: um uh openness is fluidity about sexuality that I think 196 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: certainly resonated with me and with with millions of other 197 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: people who are questioning their sexuality or or or emerging 198 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: into something that they weren't familiar with or something that 199 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: wasn't at the time quite accepted or acceptable. We're doing 200 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: her on this show in a kind of a live audience. 201 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: She's a great conversation. Yeah, but um you related to 202 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: that area. It's really really the third song I think 203 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: it was, Birdland is the song that touched me in 204 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: a way that um, I don't think anything i'd ever 205 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: touched me before. And I stayed up all night listening 206 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: to it. I went to school next day and I said, 207 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm gonna do that's that's it. And 208 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: then it took me two years to find people that 209 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: I could play with. UM that didn't work out very well. 210 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: I wound up moving to Athens, uh, following my father's retirement, 211 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: and and UM started the band. And when you leave Athene, 212 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean there's a kind of gestation there in Athens 213 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: and performing in clubs in all over Georgia. Are you like, well, 214 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: what kind of do what's the what's their? Could you 215 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: get into there when you're at that level? Well, it 216 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: was early days, um, Uh, so there wasn't really a circuit. 217 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: I mean one was kind of cobbled together by bands 218 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: like RM and Pylon also from Athens, and Black Flag, 219 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: Sonic Youth. Um. All these bands were playing like these 220 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: pizza parlors and gay discos and kind of anywhere that 221 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: would let a band set up in a corner. Music 222 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: is very different than that it is now, and the 223 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: way that music is consumed and the way that it's 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: marketed and so forth. Uh. And most bands, I mean 225 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: yours could be different. I don't know. I want to 226 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: find that out. Most bands enter into a business agreement 227 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: in order to take them to the next plateau. That's 228 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: disadvantageous for them. Did that happen to you? No? Um, 229 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: when you started signing with people, did you maintain all 230 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: the rights tool you're publishing? Yeah, you did, and we 231 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: own our masters, which Prince never did and he always 232 00:12:54,040 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: hated before. But um Uh, Peter and Mike particular, you 233 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: were encyclopedic about about music, and they had read every 234 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: biography and knew every in and out of every story 235 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: of a band that got so far and then it 236 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: fell apart because of this or this reason, and they 237 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 1: were determined to prevent that from happening to us. Who 238 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: did you sign with? Who was your first label you 239 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: signed with? The first label was UM that we signed 240 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: with was I R. S Records, Miles Copeland UM, and 241 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: he was very generous looking back. I mean we didn't 242 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: like each other very much at the time, but he 243 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: allowed us. Well, he was a business guy, and I 244 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: wasn't that interested in the business part of what was 245 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: going on. I just wanted to do what we did, 246 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: and I wanted to do it our way. And who 247 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: in the band was taking care of business? Mike? No, 248 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: we had Uh. We had a manager and a lawyer 249 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: who were helping us. And so nobody in the band. 250 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: You had to rely on people you trusted to take 251 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: care of it, and it all worked out well. You 252 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: were happy. We were really lucky in that regard, and 253 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, we we kept our eye on it and 254 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: didn't allow those things that break up bands to break 255 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: us up. So we had a really long, great career 256 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: and chose the time to disband, and I think we 257 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: even did it was the time we most broke up 258 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: from correct, we even did that, right, Yeah, I mean 259 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: over and over right. So describe for people who don't 260 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: know and I really don't care about the um the 261 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: kind of tedious details of it, in the personal details 262 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: of it. But you know, you look at a movie 263 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: like Let It Be, and you don't see people storming out, 264 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: you don't see people yelling at each other, you don't 265 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: see the negativity they've obviously uh left that out or 266 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: they was never captured on camera. When people are making 267 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: an album and there's that kind of attention for people 268 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: don't understand the music business, particularly rock and roll business, 269 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: what typically happens? What do people get? Well, I can't conflict. 270 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: I've never seen Let It Be for you. I'm not 271 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: a giant fan but um, but um, you know, a 272 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: wet fan. I'm not a giant fan of the Beatles. 273 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean I understand, I recognized what they did, but 274 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: I never they never touched me from the beginning, and 275 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: so I never kind of you know, I feel the 276 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: same way about Captain Beefheart and I just never really 277 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: was my thing. Um, but they wrote some good songs, 278 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: that's for sure. I mean, let it be might have 279 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: been before Reality TV or or it was was that 280 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: before after um American Family know that? Yeah, that was 281 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: that was the early seven what's the one that was 282 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: done about Bob Dylan? And um was that Penna Baker 283 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: that followed Bob Dylan? And there were there was there 284 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: was some kind of people walking out of rooms and 285 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: insulting each other and what have you. When you had 286 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: conflicts with people you make music with, what is the conflict? 287 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: But typically I I mean I was very young and 288 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: and and um and very shy, and so I would 289 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: just shut down. I would go into a kind of 290 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: a quiet you know, I would I would be silent 291 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: for three days, which nobody wanted because it made it. 292 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: It made everything impossible. Those guys, you know, we're we're 293 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: more loud and um often got their way, but often 294 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: it kind of pulled me out of you know, we're 295 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: in a in a in a band dynamic. Everyone's got 296 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: an idea, in an opinion. And what happened, what happens 297 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: when it all comes together, is this this beautiful compromise 298 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: where one person over kind of overseas one part, another 299 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: overseas another part. Somehow it all works. And that's the 300 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: conductor who's that's chemistry. So that chemistry served us pretty 301 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: well for most of her career. But but it was, 302 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, it was at times very very difficult, and 303 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: and and and and I'm proud of the the times 304 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: that we failed. We failed horribly and but we all know, 305 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't blame the other guy. We didn't 306 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: blame the industry, we didn't blame radio. We just agreed 307 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: that we had not made the best record or the 308 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: best song or the best recording. Some of my favorite 309 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: recordings of our work is not what wound up on records, 310 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: but what wound up in live performances. So Jah, the 311 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: song Lotus is a good example of a song that 312 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: we were called Lotuses. Lotus is the name of the song, 313 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: and it's a good song, but it's way too long 314 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: on the record. It's too slow, which is my fault. 315 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: And we recorded it and mixed it at a time 316 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: when we weren't really talking to each other, so it 317 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: was very difficult to get um to to to arrive 318 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: at a place that made sense. Live the song is 319 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: faster and we're adrenaline because we're performing it in front 320 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: of people or whatever, and um and it got a 321 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: lot better. It got a real lot better. So for 322 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: my money, you know, the recording of that song is 323 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: kind of dis interesting document of of a moment in time. 324 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: But the but but the real song emerged in live performance. 325 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean, because I don't I don't know anything about this, 326 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: and I always see what I see in films or 327 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: television or what I have here. Is there a producer 328 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: or like who decides, especially in the early days before 329 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: you become big stars, like who's sitting there sitting They're going, well, 330 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna come in here and will drop that note 331 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: down a little bit. Who's who's the decider? We always 332 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: we we always had finals, We always had final cut 333 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: on everything. So all of our records were produced with 334 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: a producer, but we were co producing, so the band 335 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: had the final saying final cut. Was there one of 336 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: you who had a better ear than the other in 337 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: terms of how this music should be mixed? Do somebody 338 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: have a gift for that? Right? Everybody had an opinion, sadly, 339 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: m did you like performing live? I loved it? What's 340 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: the first time you performed live? Because Murmur becomes the 341 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: album of the year from Rolling Stone, you beat out Thriller. 342 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: How did you feel about that? I wanted to crawl 343 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: into a hole one during myself. Don't want to be famous. No, 344 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: I wanted to be famous, But but my idea you 345 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: did want to be famous. My idea of fame was 346 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: this kind of teenage fantasy version of it. It didn't 347 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: require all the work and all the scrutiny and all 348 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: the kind of like all the stuff, Like being able 349 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: to look you in the eye and sit here and 350 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: talk about myself is something that it took decades for 351 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: me to be able to do, and that that's not 352 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: my nature. But um, why do you think it's not 353 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: your nature? Well, I mean you are a shy person. Yeah, yeah, 354 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: I still am. But I've I've managed, over the course 355 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: of fifty six years to kind of emerge. I always 356 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: say to people on a person of adulthood, but I 357 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: say to people, I think I am a shy person, 358 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: and they look at me to go, you're kidding and 359 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: out of your mind. Just overcame it so extraordinarily. The 360 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: thing you figure out when you're around a lot of 361 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: creative people is is that if you're a creator, you 362 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: have to create. It's not a choice. It's not something 363 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: that you do because you want to be famous. It's 364 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: something that or because you want to be richer, because 365 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: you want to be recognized for something, for this or 366 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: that you create because you have to. And maybe that's 367 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: what separates the weak from the chaff when it comes 368 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: to um a culture that now allows people to be 369 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: famous just for fact of being famous, or that you're 370 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: you're acknowledged and recognized for something other than a talent 371 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: or a thing that you can offer that's unique or interesting. 372 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: One time I did a concert style version of South 373 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: Pacific and it was Reba McIntyre and Brian Stokes Mitchell 374 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: are the leads, and we're there and Paul Jim and 375 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: Yanni's there conducting this orchestra. It was it was it 376 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: was like a ninety piece orchestra and like, Okay, we're ready, 377 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: We're gonna be heard and we're gonna sing, and they 378 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: call up someone, so we're gonna sing bally High and 379 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: also this orchestra wild be like Bannan. The music would 380 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: play behind I'm sitting there in a chair, the orchestras 381 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: five behind me, and I get this chill that just 382 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: shoots right up my skull, like, oh my god, this 383 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: is music. You know, what was the first time you 384 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: stepped out in front of a stadium and crab? What 385 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: was your first big first moment? What was your first 386 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: pole Jim and Yanni momentum. We one of the one 387 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: of the things that Miles Copeland, who had I R. 388 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: S Records, did was he put us on a um 389 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: on a bill at Chase Stadium, UH with Joan Jett 390 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: and the Black Hearts opening for the Police. So we 391 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 1: played sixty people. We had, we played five songs. I 392 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: said I would do it if I could wear a 393 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: wedding dress someone someone had offered me. Someone said I 394 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: dare you for a hundred dollars, which at the time 395 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: was a very very large amount of money to me, 396 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: I dare you to wear a wedding dress, she's taking them. 397 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna do it. So I went looking 398 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: for a wedding I couldn't find one. I found a tuxedo, 399 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: so I wore a tuxedo instead of really ratty tuxedo. 400 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: Did you tell the guys in the band you would 401 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: plan on wearing a wedding day? Yeah? And they were 402 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: cool with it. They were fine with They didn't care, 403 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: they didn't give a fuck. Um. They wanted you to 404 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: be you. But but I I remember it because it 405 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: was raining, uh, and we had five songs, and we 406 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: had and it was this giant place and to the 407 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: band it meant everything because the Beatles had had famously 408 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: performed there. To me, it was just as big outdoor 409 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: as your wedding day. It was my wedding day right 410 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: as it turns out. And my dress. You were getting 411 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: married to sixty people. My dress wasn't starched. Um, how 412 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: did it feel? You know? What's interesting is that I 413 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: don't really remember the show so much. I remember the backstage, 414 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: what was happening. Andy Warhol was there. That was thrilling 415 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 1: for me. Um, Matt Dylan was there. And this was 416 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: after not the outside. I was what was the Rumble Fish. 417 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: He had done Rumblefish and and I was a huge fan, 418 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: and he was kind of like hanging out in between 419 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: these two trailers. One was ours, the other was Joan Jettson. 420 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: I was like, wow, Joan jett knows Matt Dilon, How 421 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: exciting is that? And we were kind of peeking through 422 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: the window, and then there was a knock at the 423 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: door and it was Matt Dillon and he was a 424 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: big r M fan. So we sat with us and 425 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: we talked for a long time, and I was kind 426 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: of touched by that, very touched by that. That's what 427 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: I really remember, the kind of adrenalized ballet high moment. 428 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: I mean, put me in front of any number of 429 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: people and I would get that adrenaline rush and I 430 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: kind of would go into a trance. M radio Heads 431 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: lead singer Tom York told me he was in awe 432 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: of Michael Stipe's on stage persona. You'd stand there for 433 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: the first two tunes barely move. He was a sort 434 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 1: of lightning conductor and he was just waiting for it 435 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: to hit, and then when it hit, it was off. 436 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: You can hear that whole interview at Here's the Thing, 437 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 1: Dot Org coming up, Michael Stipe talks about how R. E. M. 438 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: Became politically aware and discusses his fear of collage. Yes, collage. 439 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to. Here's the thing. 440 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: My guest today is the singer and artist Michael Stipe. 441 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: When fellow rock frontman Eddie Vetter inducted Stipe into the 442 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in two thousand and seven, 443 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: he had this to say, such wisdom in the feelings 444 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: of these songs that I think they helped us find 445 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: things that we knew were inside us. And I can 446 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: say that personally there are things that I hold and 447 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: feel very deeply about inside here that Michael Stipe put 448 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: in there himself. This all happens without ever being able 449 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: to understand a thing. He was saying, When I think 450 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: of you and your music, it's the beauty and the love, 451 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: the romance, the passion, all of it goes up to 452 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: a certain point and you will not get sentimental about it. 453 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: You're the least sentimental performers. It's there and you go 454 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: right up to the precipice and there's not it's not 455 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: sent cry right now, thank you for saying that. I'm 456 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: a very sentimental person, and I despise sentimentality. I despise nostalgia. 457 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: Do you agree that that's a hallmark of the music 458 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: you guys make. I'm very flattered that you say that 459 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: we go to that line and we never cross it. 460 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: In my in my most closer than anybody I know, well, 461 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: thank you. In my most critical moments, I would say, well, no, 462 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: we crossed it many times and and not so um, 463 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: not so gracefully. But but I appreciate that. That's a 464 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: huge compliment. As a writer, that's a huge compliment and 465 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: as a singer, because you can the way the way 466 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: something is performed, the way you put it down on tape, 467 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: really can can make or break it. I'm trying to 468 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: think of an example of someone who's very, very brilliant 469 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: with that. I think Sia Um is brilliant with the 470 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: way she uses her voice. There are other singers through 471 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: throughout our lives, and we don't have to name names 472 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: who have amazing voices but have no idea how to 473 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: use them, or they overuse them, or their producers. They 474 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: do that crack at the high note every single time, 475 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: and by the end of the song, you're exhausted and 476 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: the thing they do. There's a thing now when you're 477 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: when your music is when you're moving along, regardless of 478 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: after murmur and after you start to take off and 479 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: really make it. One of the things I'm always curious 480 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: about for highly successful musicians of whatever type of music 481 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: is is music in your life, other people's music, and 482 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: then the obligation and or or even just the ambition 483 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: to now drive your music to the next level, does 484 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 1: it push other music out? Or if you always listened 485 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: to music. And that's a really good question, and I'm 486 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: going to answer it honestly. There's a point where I 487 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: stopped being able to listen to other music. And it 488 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: wasn't because I was afraid I was going to um 489 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: accidentally imitator steal something from someone. Music became un interesting 490 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: to me. Now that I don't make music anymore, I'm 491 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: able to listen to music. I'm able to read novels, 492 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: uh and books. I'm able to absorb myself into TV 493 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: shows and films that I just didn't have time for. 494 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I realized when RIM disbanded five years ago. 495 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: It took me about six months to recognize how much 496 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: of how much of a creative kind of fog I 497 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: had been in with that band. I'm such a perfectionist, 498 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm such a control freak. I oversaw every aspect of 499 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: the band and and along with Peter and Mike and 500 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: Bill when he was there. Um, but it completely consumed 501 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: my every waking thought the entire time that that band 502 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: was going, and so other things fell fell away, and 503 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: I think I became a little bit of a less 504 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: interesting person for now working having a life that allowed 505 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: me to not write a song about being on the 506 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: road or being in a band, or write songs about 507 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: the industry of music, which is the most pathetically boring 508 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: thing you could possibly you know, focus on what people do. 509 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: One of my favorite songs that we ever wrote is 510 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: called Supernatural, Super Serious, and it's this insanely beautiful narrative, 511 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: really beautiful narrative about innocence and teenage ideas and how 512 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: those are flattened or dismissed or disregarded as an adult 513 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: and then you come back, it comes back at some 514 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: point and you realize you're still that person. So that's 515 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: all in this lyric for me, I probably need to 516 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: write a little short story to go along with it. 517 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: For anybody that listens to the song, because I'm not 518 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: sure that I successfully managed to get all that into 519 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: the lyric. Have you ever thought about writing a book 520 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: like that where you explicate all the lyrics of your songs? 521 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: Or I'm actually doing it, but I'm not doing a 522 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: very good job of it. About well, I'm as you 523 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: may have figured out it in this conversation. I think 524 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 1: in a very um, circuitous and tangential way, and so 525 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: I'll always come back to my point, but I lose 526 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: most people in the way. I have great stories, and 527 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm a terrible storyteller. Now the you are very well known. 528 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm legendary, if you will, for your passions about causes. 529 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of people are involved in causes, 530 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: and um, when does that begin for you in your 531 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: career when you say to yourself, I can't keep my 532 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: mash and I want to start talking about this. Well, 533 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: it was it was the Reagan It was the Reagan era, 534 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: and the country was falling apart in a way that 535 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: that was quite evident. And we were then as as 536 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: a band traveling overseas representing America and getting ship thrown 537 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: at us for you know, the cruise missiles that were 538 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: being sent over and put into position. In parts of Europe, 539 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: people were very very unhappy about that. We became politicized 540 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: quite quickly as a band um and you know we 541 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: I'm a child of the seventies. You know, we came 542 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: out of a place where um, everything that the sixties 543 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: was and this is I think perfectly encapsulated. Again. We'll 544 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: talk about Patty Smith for a moment, but when she 545 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: wrote Just Kids, that book to me is like The 546 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: Big Chill, but for sentimental douche bags, for people that 547 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: for people that lived through it and were at one 548 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: point told your sellout and you have to get a job, 549 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: and all of your dreams and inspirations, everything that you 550 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: thought you could do with this thing is flatlined. Go 551 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: get a job. Just Kids provided those people with the 552 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: first for the first time, I think, a way of 553 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: looking at themselves as children, as teenagers, as young people 554 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: again and saying that innocence was quite beautiful and in 555 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: fact we were right. Things didn't go our way, but 556 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: we had a place. The people that dropped out in 557 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: the sixties and then had to get jobs became the 558 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: people that were teaching me in sixth, seventh, eighth, and 559 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: ninth grade. And so in the early seventies in America, 560 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: in public school there was a very clear understanding that 561 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: it was our job to talk about and fix what 562 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: became dramatic climate change issues, energy problems, what's going on everything. 563 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: But I had I had an entire year long course 564 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: called environmental science, taught by Miss Enoch and it was 565 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: there was a there was a textbook, and it was 566 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: taught in public schools in Texas. Anyway, as a twelve 567 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: thirteen year old, I knew about all this energy stuff. 568 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: And and so then as an adult, you know, you 569 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: you you become politicized quite quickly when you travel outside 570 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: of the country, and that's what happened to us. Are 571 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: you still are you still speaking at it some issues 572 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: right now? Are you still working with organizations now? Yeah? 573 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: I mean you know, I currently. I was a big 574 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: supporter of Bernie Sanders and went out and advocated for 575 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: him and for his campaign. Um. I mean, it's so 576 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: sad that we have allowed ourselves to sink to this 577 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: level of really entertainment, that's what it is. I blame 578 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: media completely for it, including which sorry to say it, 579 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: but later but I wanted to ask, I mean, this 580 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: is really what what what does it feel like from inside? 581 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: What does it feel like playing that character? It's satire, 582 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: it's brilliantly done, but it's still adding to the kind 583 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: of synicism, it's adding to the push of of you know, 584 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: Warhole said, I think Andy Warhol said, there's no such 585 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: thing as bad publicity. How have we created this monster? 586 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: How how have we put our particular American brand onto 587 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: this thing? Well, there's two things that come to mind. 588 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: One is when I was approached by Lauren, who's a 589 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: friend of mine, to do it, my first impulse was no, 590 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: because in order to do that effectively, you need to 591 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: have some appreciation of the person. So if I do 592 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: Tony Bennett, if I do Pacina or DeNiro or this 593 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: one of that one, whatever you can achieve or even 594 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: kind of achieve, Half asked. It's there's some kernel of 595 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: appreciation for which Trump I have none. Now the show 596 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: and giving people that chance, I have had a obviously 597 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: a wave of people I've had. It's it's kind of 598 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: unsettling to me, actually, how many people come up to 599 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: me all day long and they thank me because they 600 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: say we needed something to laugh about, they needed a release. 601 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: Um see, I think that I pray to God that 602 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton wins for only one reason. And I never 603 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: thought I could sink I could distill it down to 604 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: one reason, but that the court. The court is the 605 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: key to everything. We have to keep her accountable. But 606 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: but but I agree with you that, yeah, that there's 607 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: there there there are some very problematic issues with her 608 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: as well. I'm not a big fan, right, but tell 609 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: me what was there? Something specifically what it was? And 610 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: but we have got to I think all of us 611 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: have to go and vote, uh, if not for someone, 612 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: against someone, and we all have to vote against Donald Trump. 613 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: That's that. Let's say that as a Sanders supporter, by 614 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: the way, but I'm gonna vote Sanders had a chance. 615 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna vote for her. Sander's had a chance, and 616 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: and and and in a telegenic age where the two 617 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: where the two nominees now are old, say just looked even. Oh. 618 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I had a friend of my turned to 619 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: me and he said to me, he goes, he doesn't 620 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: have a chance. I said, why because people don't want 621 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: geppetto to be the President of the States. And I thought, okay, 622 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: if you want to look at it that way. His 623 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: would have been a flawed administration as well, but it 624 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: would have been I think it would have been flawed 625 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: in something that is more, it would have been braver. 626 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: It would have certainly been braver. Um. I was talking 627 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: to other people who work in your business, which and 628 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: liked my business, which is a very youth centered business 629 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: in terms of the performing and the whole of the 630 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: ark of it, and all of us as we get older, 631 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: when this business it changes. Was there a moment that 632 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: you realize it started to change for you, not even 633 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: in terms of people's perception of you and the response 634 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: to you, your response to it. Did you sit there 635 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: one day and go, I didn't even know if I 636 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: want to do this anymore? This way many times as 637 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: an as an older person in a you know, rock 638 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: and roll band, for our pop band. Uh M, yeah, 639 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: there's a point where I said, this is this is 640 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: not um, this doesn't look. It's not a good look. 641 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: And I we I we have to either grow with 642 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: it and be who we are right now m or stop. 643 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: And I think we did a pretty good job of 644 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: being people in their early forties, mid forties, late forties, 645 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: early fifties doing this. Uh. Not the perpetual teenager thing 646 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: that a lot of people kind of go down that 647 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: route and the cameras get a little fuzzier and pulled 648 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: back a little more, and all the girls in the 649 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: front row are paid extras, yeah, or or or the 650 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: girls are in their mid fifties as well, you know, 651 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: and I I just didn't I didn't particularly see myself 652 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: in that role. I'm now exploring all these other mediums 653 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: that I'm really thrilled to be working on other than music. 654 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: And I'm also, although I'm not prepared, not ready to 655 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: be a pop star again, a pop singer, I'm dabbling 656 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: in music and it feels yeah, yeah, I mean I 657 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: started actually about a year and a half ago. A 658 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: friend called me, who Casey Spooner from the band Fisher 659 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: Spooner um working on an album for a couple of 660 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: years and got really stuck and said, I need help 661 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: with a song. Can you help me? And I went 662 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: in and it was very clear to me what needed 663 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: to be done, and I told him, But there was 664 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: another piece of music playing while we were talking, and 665 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: I said, can I comment on that one as well? 666 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: And long story short, I wound up producing the album 667 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: and co writing every song on it. And so as 668 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: a producer and writer, I've kind of come back into 669 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: music through Fisher Spooner and that Records out in the Spring. 670 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: You've been making films, film production. I stopped making film. 671 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: You just stopped. I stopped filming because I wanted, I 672 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 1: needed to just step away from everything. And so when 673 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: when when iri AM disbanded five years ago, I pretty 674 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: much shuddered both of my production companies, thrilled that we 675 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: had done what we did in the um. It was 676 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: twenty seven years, I guess of I made about that 677 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: many feature films, most of them very independent, the most 678 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: famous one being being John Markovic with Spike Jones it UM. 679 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: I was really ready to just step away from everything 680 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: and explore other mediums that I not wanted to. Photography 681 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: needed to really look into, and photography the primary one now. 682 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: Photography was my first love, photography before music, and so 683 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: a lot of the work that I'm doing now it's 684 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: not I don't. I think of myself as an artist 685 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: who works in all these different mediums, and music is 686 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: one of them and obviously the most the one I'm 687 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: best known for. But photography has come back around. I'm 688 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: doing a book I'm working on a book now through 689 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: the guy Jonathan Burger brought me to n y U 690 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: to teach art for the False semester and that was thrilling. 691 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: And out of that is coming a book of my 692 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: work that I'm working with him on, So that's really exciting. Um, 693 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: you are such a unique and such a kind of 694 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: particular person and you know that. Thank you. And you 695 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: you're performing well. I mean you're performing. You're singing, and 696 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: your style and your appearance and your kind of demeanor 697 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: and everything you're You're very was acting ever in the 698 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: cards for you? Did you ever think about going off 699 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: and making films and acting? I was asked, Um, I 700 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: was offered the role of the psychopathic killer in the 701 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: film seven. They wanted someone very unexpected, and unfortunately my 702 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: band was going on tour the same month that they 703 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: started filming, so I wasn't and it required nothing I 704 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: had to do is run down some hallways and look scary. 705 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 1: There was no dialogue. UM, I'm so glad you didn't 706 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: do that. I would have loved doing it. I I 707 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: didn't like the way that movie ended. They changed something 708 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: at the end that meant that Brad pets rather than 709 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman's character killed Kevin Spacey in the end, which 710 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't have happened. It didn't make sense. But but yeah, 711 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I no, I don't. I always felt like 712 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: just because something is available to you through fame, or 713 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: through connections or through proximity, it doesn't mean that you 714 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: should say yes to it, And so I've been very 715 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: careful with I mean, the other mediums that I'm working 716 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: in now are things that sometimes terrify me. I'm doing 717 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: collage work. I'm I despise collage. I'm working with I'm 718 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: working with hand handwriting in my own line, and I'm 719 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: a terrible drawer. But I'm I'm working with the things 720 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: that I most fear about myself, and I'm and I'm 721 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: not showing them to the public unless I really think 722 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: that I've got something. But this book that I'm working on, 723 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm kind of working through a lot of these things 724 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: with the book. So it's it's been thrilling. I'm not 725 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: saying that you should play Boo Radley, but you should 726 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: play a Boo Radley type of character, where, no matter 727 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: how unique or odd, he may strike people in the 728 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: hair and make up the whole appearance deep down inside, 729 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: he's this beautiful soul. I would like you to stick 730 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: to that at the idiot man child, I'm that's what 731 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: my dog thinks. I'm the idiot Mantel, the freaky Angel. 732 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: I like to call the weird Angel, no psycho killer. 733 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: When I meet UM directors like Todd Haynes, uh and 734 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: Spike Jones, or I meet actors like yourself, for John Malkovic, 735 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: I realized that these are people that wake up with 736 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: a need and a desire to do that thing, and 737 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: I have so much respect for it that um for 738 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: me to even try. You know, I don't play trombone either. 739 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: Why would I Why would I even want to ever 740 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: try to play trombone? But I I I leave that 741 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: to those that have that need, that wake up with 742 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: that desire. My desires are in the same ballpark, but 743 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: slightly different. And so that's where I've tried to spend 744 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: my short time on this earth, hopefully two or at 745 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: least I'll take uh really focusing on the things that 746 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: I feel like I might be able to that will 747 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: challenge me, that will challenge hopefully whatever audience I'm able 748 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: to attain, and we'll keep me on my toes keep 749 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: me curious. I'm gonna end this with what I consider 750 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: and I don't assume you're gonna agree with me, But 751 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: beyond my substantial appreciation for you and your artistry and 752 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: the band and the music and the whole legend of R. 753 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: E M and so forth, I want to say that 754 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: you occupy a very unique place in my life. Very 755 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: few pieces of music make the cut and get on 756 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: this playlist? Which is the song I can play in 757 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: the gym that puts the fire in my ass to 758 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: go work out? And Crush with Eyeliner is on that playlist? 759 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: Great songs. You fire up those guitars and I'm like, 760 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: let's go, baby. I'm thrilled to help push you onto 761 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: the thrilling ale. R E ms landmark record Out of 762 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: Time is being rereleased for its anniversary on November. Well, 763 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: Crush with Eyeliner came later in the band's catalog, And 764 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 1: if that doesn't get you going, I don't know what will. 765 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the 766 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: thing