Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed
Speaker 1: psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find
Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, visit our website at therapyforblackgirls.com.
Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from
Speaker 1: the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute
Speaker 1: for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional.
Speaker 2: Hey, y'all.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining me for session 478 of
Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today, I'm sitting back
Speaker 1: down with Dr. Russell Ledet for the final installment of
Speaker 1: our Surviving Middle School series. He's answering all of the
Speaker 1: questions from our CBG community. But first, a quick word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. From raising a middle schooler in a
Speaker 1: tech-driven world to truly understanding what's behind the ups and
Speaker 1: downs of this stage of life, We've covered so much
Speaker 1: throughout our Surviving Middle School series. We've talked about friendships
Speaker 1: and fitting in, the growing influence of peers, social media,
Speaker 1: big feelings, and the sometimes tricky shift towards independence. Today,
Speaker 1: we're wrapping up the series with a Q & A
Speaker 1: featuring Dr. Russell Lede, who you may remember from the
Speaker 1: previous episode of this series. We asked you, our TBG listeners,
Speaker 1: to submit your questions about Surviving Middle School. And I
Speaker 1: even tapped my own group chat to find out what
Speaker 1: parents really wanted to know. In my conversation with Dr. Lede,
Speaker 1: we dig into some of the questions that come up
Speaker 1: again and again during these years. How can we help
Speaker 1: kids build healthy friendships while navigating the pressure to fit in?
Speaker 1: When should parents be concerned if their child prefers to
Speaker 1: be alone? How do we support kids through bullying, peer pressure,
Speaker 1: and the influence of social media while still giving them
Speaker 1: room to become independent? Throughout our conversation, Dr. Lede shares
Speaker 1: advice and lessons learned around this unique stage of life,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited for you to hear his perspective. Press
Speaker 1: play and let's get into it. Well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us again, Dr.
Speaker 2: Ledeck. Yeah, I'm so excited to be here, Dr. Joy.
Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me into the space again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so people heard you on the podcast. There were
Speaker 1: all kinds of follow-up questions. My group chat had questions.
Speaker 1: So I will get right into it so that we
Speaker 1: can cover as many as possible. So I first want
Speaker 1: to start by talking more about friendships because we know
Speaker 1: that this is a really big thing that kids are
Speaker 1: navigating during this age. So how do we help kids
Speaker 1: navigate the desire to be liked and to fit in?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of my favorite topics. So I'm
Speaker 3: glad you're starting off with this one. First, I want
Speaker 3: to conceptualize something for parents. I've heard some parents like
Speaker 3: criticize their children for wanting to belong. And sometimes they
Speaker 3: frame it as like weakness or like vanity, but actually
Speaker 3: it's a developmental need.
Speaker 2: Like it's something that you need during your teenage years.
Speaker 3: The goal is not necessarily to fit in. The goal
Speaker 3: is also not to fit out. So I like to
Speaker 3: do something real quick. I like to distinguish these two
Speaker 3: words that we use all the time. Actually it's three words,
Speaker 3: but two phrases. There's belonging and which is this, like
Speaker 3: you could think of belonging as I can be myself
Speaker 3: and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in.
Speaker 3: Fitting in says I have to change who I am
Speaker 3: in order to avoid rejection. So belonging and fitting in
Speaker 3: are not the exact same thing. You want to skew
Speaker 3: your kids towards figuring out where they belong as opposed
Speaker 3: to them trying to fit in. Now there's going to
Speaker 3: be some gray areas there. Because maybe there are some
Speaker 3: parts of them that need to grow. And maybe what
Speaker 3: we perceive as them fitting in is them actually growing.
Speaker 3: And I think the goal in all of this is
Speaker 3: not to convince your children that they should not.
Speaker 2: Care about what other people think. That's unrealistic.
Speaker 3: What we want them to do is to care without
Speaker 3: allowing other people's opinions to completely.
Speaker 2: Define who they are. So I like to..
Speaker 3: Ask parents to do something that allows the child to
Speaker 3: build their identity that doesn't focus on popularity. So like,
Speaker 3: what are things that you're good at? What matters to you? Like,
Speaker 3: what is something that's really important to you? Where do
Speaker 3: you feel like you get to be yourself the most?
Speaker 3: And then my favorite question I like to have parents
Speaker 3: to ask is, what makes you feel comfortable Instead of
Speaker 3: your friends always trying to figure out if there's something
Speaker 3: that needs to be fixed by you. And the other
Speaker 3: piece of this, aside from figuring out the child's identity
Speaker 3: outside of popularity, is curiosity on the part of the parents.
Speaker 3: So instead of criticizing the child for building friendships and
Speaker 3: trying to figure out social confidence, one thing parents can
Speaker 3: do is be curious. Like genuinely just be like curious George.
Speaker 3: Like you just asking questions because... Either you want to
Speaker 3: confirm your assumptions or you want to correct your assumptions,
Speaker 3: or you just want to understand better what the child
Speaker 3: is thinking about this thing from. So questions I like
Speaker 3: to tell parents that they can ask their kids is,
Speaker 3: how do you feel after you spend time with so-and-so?
Speaker 3: How do you feel after you spend time with that?
Speaker 3: Are you able to disagree with that person and you
Speaker 3: all can still be friends? Are there times when they
Speaker 3: pressure you to do something that you have no interest
Speaker 3: in doing whatsoever? And then this question around identity comes
Speaker 3: back around when you are curious and you say, well,
Speaker 3: do you feel like you could just be yourself around them?
Speaker 2: And if they say yes, then you say, oh, that
Speaker 2: might be a pretty good friend.
Speaker 3: But also have them define what they mean by when
Speaker 3: they say, I can be myself.
Speaker 2: Because I can be.
Speaker 3: Myself can be them being a version of themselves that
Speaker 3: doesn't align with the family values or who you're hoping
Speaker 3: that they define themselves to become.
Speaker 2: And you know it can lead to some pretty deleterious behaviors.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this, Dr.
Speaker 2: Lede.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you talking about the idea of don't
Speaker 1: worry about other people's opinions being unrealistic. Because even as adults,
Speaker 1: we worry about other people's opinions, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, oh, you don't worry about what they think.
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? You care about what other
Speaker 2: people think right now.
Speaker 3: I mean, you don't want it to be so much
Speaker 3: so that it defines who you are. But what other
Speaker 3: people think actually matters, like the period of push and
Speaker 3: pull with the teenager, right, is a period where you're
Speaker 3: asking your child to accept feedback. And in asking them
Speaker 3: to accept feedback, you're also asking them to consider someone
Speaker 3: else's opinion.
Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then they probably.
Speaker 3: Do need to care about what other people think because
Speaker 3: you're going to ask them to care about what you think.
Speaker 3: But then some parents may elevate themselves and say, well,
Speaker 3: but I'm the parent. And I'm like, you're still another person.
Speaker 3: You know, so, yeah.
Speaker 1: So related to this, what if my child doesn't have
Speaker 1: any desire to actually be a part of social relationships?
Speaker 1: Like they're maybe identify as a loner and don't actually
Speaker 1: prefer to hang around people. Is that a concern?
Speaker 3: It can be when it's like isolation for extended periods
Speaker 3: of time.
Speaker 2: For sure, it can be concerning.
Speaker 3: I think more often than not, children are, well, there's
Speaker 3: a couple of different things that can come with that
Speaker 3: that I want to preface. One is how much time
Speaker 3: are they spending on the internet? Because these days, a
Speaker 3: lot of kids will say, oh, I have a lot
Speaker 3: of friends. And you're like, so who are your friends?
Speaker 3: And they're like, oh, my friends are on the internet.
Speaker 3: These are people they've never met before. These are people
Speaker 3: who may be adults. These are people who may be, like,
Speaker 3: there's a lot more to that. So if your kid
Speaker 3: is isolating and spending a lot of time on the internet,
Speaker 3: I would be quite concerned. The other thing is too,
Speaker 3: kids will oftentimes develop friendships with people who share their interests.
Speaker 3: And we have to take into account temperaments. The three
Speaker 3: main temperaments that we always talk about is easy, difficult,
Speaker 3: and slow to warm, right? Like those are kind of
Speaker 3: the three big buckets. Easy kiddos tend to be easier
Speaker 3: to make friends. Difficult kids, it takes quite a while.
Speaker 3: And then the slow to warm kids, you kind of
Speaker 3: see them start off very slow and then they just..
Speaker 2: Move on yet. Right.
Speaker 3: They may have had the temperament of a difficult child.
Speaker 3: And so what that means is, is that longer established
Speaker 3: relationships may be more helpful for them. And so keeping
Speaker 3: them in contact with kids as they've been around for
Speaker 3: a while. Some kids like a multiplicity of friends. Some
Speaker 3: kids are like, I just like a small circle. My
Speaker 3: same friends.
Speaker 2: I don't want a whole bunch of new friends.
Speaker 3: And both of those things are okay because you see
Speaker 3: that into adulthood as well. And so I think you
Speaker 3: would have to know the temperament and strengths of your child.
Speaker 2: What are their interests?
Speaker 3: Which is why I'll go back to a question that
Speaker 3: I phrased in the first segment of the questions, which
Speaker 3: was like, how curious are you?
Speaker 2: Like how genuinely curious are you?
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about like curious so that you could
Speaker 3: get to a point that you want to make. I mean,
Speaker 3: like you genuinely are like, I just want to know.
Speaker 3: I don't have much of an opinion about it. I
Speaker 3: just want to know. And then I want to take
Speaker 3: what this child tells me at face value and respond
Speaker 3: to that as opposed to what I assume it to be.
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that I always try
Speaker 3: to encourage parents to do is make the least amount
Speaker 3: of assumptions as possible.
Speaker 2: Ask questions like kids actually like questions. They get to
Speaker 2: answer it in a way that makes sense to them.
Speaker 2: and you get to learn something about them.
Speaker 3: Same way you and your spouse continue to ask each
Speaker 3: other questions to learn more about each other as you evolve.
Speaker 3: Children are the exact same way. They're evolving, they're developing,
Speaker 3: they're growing. Ask questions because maybe what they liked before,
Speaker 3: they don't like anymore. I look at my daughter now,
Speaker 3: she's eight years old and she's starting to phase out
Speaker 3: of the Lilo and Stitch phase which is crazy for
Speaker 3: me because I spent so much time with Lilo and Stitch,
Speaker 3: but I'm also okay with it. And I'm like, hey,
Speaker 3: what's the new thing that you like? And now it's
Speaker 3: the Dogman books. Like she's big into the whole like
Speaker 3: Dogman book thing, right? And so I'm just like, okay,
Speaker 3: all right. So now we're in the Dogman book phase
Speaker 3: and we are probably moving out of Lilo and Stitch phase.
Speaker 3: So what that means is that like, maybe I'll build
Speaker 3: her an activity to do that's around Dogman.
Speaker 2: And it's not around Lilo and Stitch.
Speaker 3: Whereas previously I would have built her like math problems
Speaker 3: and reading comprehension problems that were associated with Levo and Stitch.
Speaker 3: Now we got to move her under the dogman because
Speaker 3: my goal is to keep her interest. Same thing happens
Speaker 3: during the adolescent years. Figure out what they're interested in
Speaker 3: and then try to center activities and things around that.
Speaker 1: That's helpful. Thank you. Our next question, how can we
Speaker 1: support kids who we feel like may be being picked
Speaker 1: on or bullied?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So there's some things I have to say before I
Speaker 3: answer this question. I think If you are a parent
Speaker 3: who did not grow up with emotional safety, then this
Speaker 3: very well may be difficult for you to do because
Speaker 3: you're not familiar with it. It's not necessarily that it's
Speaker 3: not something that you don't want or something that you
Speaker 3: don't even want for your child.
Speaker 2: You just are simply not familiar with it. So there
Speaker 2: may be challenges with this.
Speaker 3: I would tell parents to start off by believing the
Speaker 3: emotional experience of the child. You don't even need to
Speaker 3: know every factual detail of what happened. You need to
Speaker 3: believe the emotional experience of the child. No questions asked.
Speaker 3: They come to you and telling you about being bullied,
Speaker 3: being picked on, stuff like that. You got to believe
Speaker 3: their emotional experience, how it's making them feel. Even if
Speaker 3: you don't know all the factual details, the emotional component,
Speaker 3: they're not lying to you about that. And there are
Speaker 3: things that will sometimes minimize that. unhealthy things that we
Speaker 3: can say and stuff like just ignore it they're only
Speaker 3: joking oh one i hate is you need to toughen
Speaker 3: up i hate hearing that one and the reference point
Speaker 3: of their own childhood oh that happened to me when
Speaker 3: i was young it's like first of all this is
Speaker 3: your child not your childhood let's just start there stop
Speaker 3: using you as a reference for this child because your
Speaker 3: child is not you And I need you to be
Speaker 3: okay with the fact that your child is not you.
Speaker 2: They're not even an emulation of you.
Speaker 3: So I think there are some healthier openings that we
Speaker 3: can use with our children. I'm glad you told me
Speaker 3: about this. I'm excited that you told me about this.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you trusting me with what's going on. Another
Speaker 3: one to validate their feelings is you didn't deserve that.
Speaker 3: Like you don't deserve that because then it helps them
Speaker 3: to establish some sense of self. Like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't think I deserve this. And now I'm glad that
Speaker 3: the leader in my home doesn't think that I deserve this.
Speaker 3: And then ask about some of the details. Like, has
Speaker 3: this happened more than once? Do you feel safe going
Speaker 3: to school? What is it that I can do to
Speaker 3: help you in this moment versus what can I do
Speaker 3: to help you when it comes down to school? And
Speaker 3: then there's the clarifying component and not in a like,
Speaker 3: I told you, I knew that's what was going on. No,
Speaker 3: I don't know how helpful that's going to be. But
Speaker 3: you can clarify what actually happened, have them do some storytelling.
Speaker 3: Maybe they need to draw it out. Maybe they need
Speaker 3: to tell you a little bit of it, take a
Speaker 3: break and then come back and tell you some more
Speaker 3: because they may be reliving it.
Speaker 2: And that may be difficult for them to do. Is
Speaker 2: this simply just some conflict? Is this teasing? Is this
Speaker 2: them being rejected? Is this fight bullying?
Speaker 3: Because all of those things I just named, whether it's conflict, teasing, rejection, bullying,
Speaker 3: or physical harm, all of those things are painful. And
Speaker 3: all of those things being painful doesn't mean that they
Speaker 3: all require the same intervention. The conflict may require your
Speaker 3: child learning about conflict. there's kind of an offshoot there
Speaker 3: where it's like, how do you all handle conflict at home?
Speaker 3: If you just shut down the conversation as a parent
Speaker 3: and say, no, we're just not talking about this anymore. Okay, well,
Speaker 3: then your child probably will not be able to do
Speaker 3: a good job when it comes down to resolving conflict
Speaker 3: because they didn't get to practice at home. If it
Speaker 3: comes down to teasing, obviously you could take the approach of, well,
Speaker 3: figure out a joke to tell them back to kind
Speaker 3: of keep the banter going if it's just something funny
Speaker 3: and it's harmless or something like that. But if it's
Speaker 3: genuinely to the point where it's like rejection and bullying
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, okay, how do we want to
Speaker 3: address this? Do we want to have a conference with
Speaker 3: the teacher? Do I have a close enough relationship with
Speaker 3: the parent where I can go and talk to them?
Speaker 3: Am I at a place where I can emotionally have
Speaker 3: this conversation safely? Or do I need to work through
Speaker 3: some stuff? And this is where I'm going to challenge
Speaker 3: a lot of parents because for the parents who still
Speaker 3: institute corporal punishment, I'm like, everybody says like, don't touch
Speaker 3: my baby.
Speaker 2: And then you do. I'm like, it's so confusing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is counterintuitive all by itself and it's
Speaker 3: something to sit with for a lot of parents because
Speaker 3: it's like this is counterintuitive you've already helped your child
Speaker 3: to realize that it's okay for somebody to physically harm
Speaker 3: them but then they have to clarify who exactly can
Speaker 3: do it that's a very confusing thing to do for
Speaker 3: a child any child even young teenagers that's just complicated
Speaker 3: but and then I think the way you have these
Speaker 3: conversations needs to be with a collaborative tone it needs
Speaker 3: to always be with a let's figure this out together
Speaker 3: And then I think there are some warning signs that.
Speaker 2: Will require even more intervention.
Speaker 3: Like if your child is like not sleeping at night,
Speaker 3: avoiding school, their grades are starting to go down. They
Speaker 3: have injuries now that nobody can explain. They're always complaining
Speaker 3: of like physical ailments. And you're like, well, where did
Speaker 3: that come from? Like when you take their clothes off
Speaker 3: and you see bruises and stuff, okay, you need to
Speaker 3: intervene immediately. Right. And so I think it depends on
Speaker 3: the degree of it. But I think our job as
Speaker 3: parents is to simultaneously make our children more resilient, but
Speaker 3: also feel safe. Both of those things need to happen
Speaker 3: at the same time.
Speaker 1: And, you know, I can imagine, Dr. Lede, like if
Speaker 1: you have this collaborative approach with your kid and say like, OK,
Speaker 1: if the decision is made to talk with the family
Speaker 1: and like the parents, I can imagine teens being like, no,
Speaker 1: that's going to be embarrassing. But if it does require
Speaker 1: that level of intervention, like what might make that a
Speaker 1: little bit more acceptable to a teen or a preteen
Speaker 1: that this is how you feel like it needs to happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dr. Joy, this is an amazing question.
Speaker 3: I think the follow up here is let's have a
Speaker 3: conversation about what's embarrassing about it. Let's like tell me
Speaker 3: what's embarrassing about it to you. You know, tell me
Speaker 3: what's going to happen as a function of someone thinking
Speaker 3: that you're protecting yourself.
Speaker 2: And how are you conceptualizing this?
Speaker 3: Are you conceptualizing this as this is some component of
Speaker 3: my persona to my colleagues?
Speaker 2: Or are you conceptualizing this as I need to protect myself?
Speaker 3: Because one of those things is going to go more
Speaker 3: towards fitting in. The other one is going to go
Speaker 3: more towards belonging. I don't want you around people who
Speaker 3: will physically harm you or even emotionally harm you. And
Speaker 3: it doesn't sound like you want to be around people
Speaker 3: who emotionally harm you. Because that's why we're having this
Speaker 3: conversation right now. And kids can sometimes be in conflict. They,
Speaker 3: on one hand, they want these quote unquote friends, but
Speaker 3: then they realize that like, oh, some of these friendships
Speaker 3: are harmful, but I don't know how to untether myself
Speaker 3: from these things, which is a process.
Speaker 2: Like, and it's not a linear process.
Speaker 3: Like it literally is a work in progress for the
Speaker 3: parents and the child. And the best thing in the
Speaker 3: world is, is the fact that your child is even
Speaker 3: discussing this with you. Because they could choose to not
Speaker 3: have this conversation with you at all. They could just
Speaker 3: be going through this thing on their own. You know
Speaker 3: nothing about it. They don't talk to you about it.
Speaker 3: They act like everything is fine. They minimize it until
Speaker 3: they can't minimize it anymore.
Speaker 2: And so..
Speaker 3: You know, like I said, the goal is, yes, indeed,
Speaker 3: to make your child more resilient is not to rescue
Speaker 3: them from everything, but at the same time is to
Speaker 3: ensure that your child is physically and emotionally safe.
Speaker 2: And that safety starts at home. That's helpful.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So I want to move on
Speaker 1: to our next set of questions that's really more about
Speaker 1: kind of like how do we continue to help them
Speaker 1: navigate this independence and maybe resilience that you're talking about.
Speaker 1: How can parents keep the lines of communication open as
Speaker 1: kids become more influenced by their friends and their social environment?
Speaker 2: Oh, man.
Speaker 3: You know, my favorite thing to tell parents is, can
Speaker 3: your children just talk to you? I remember doing this content,
Speaker 3: which I thought was just like pretty basic. And then
Speaker 3: my daughter was like, no, dad, like I have. friends
Speaker 3: who watched this and were like, yes, I wish I
Speaker 3: could tell my parents that. And one day I was
Speaker 3: telling my daughter, I was like, I'm a doctor. My
Speaker 3: job is to heal. And because my job is to heal,
Speaker 3: anytime I hear of a problem, I have to stop myself.
Speaker 3: Because it's so bad, I just want to fix it
Speaker 3: for you. And there are some things that it's not
Speaker 3: my job to fix it for you. It's my job
Speaker 3: to be there whether you fall or you succeed at it.
Speaker 3: It's a safe thing that you need to figure out
Speaker 3: how to navigate on your own. I'm giving you as
Speaker 3: many tools as I possibly can.
Speaker 2: You got to figure this one out. Let me know
Speaker 2: if you need my help. She's like, yeah, that is helpful.
Speaker 3: And then she was like, yeah, sometimes when I'm talking
Speaker 3: to you, I just want you to like, just vibe
Speaker 3: with me.
Speaker 2: Just listen.
Speaker 3: Just like, just vibe it out with me. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: come live in my world for a little bit. And
Speaker 3: then sometimes I genuinely need your advice. She was like,
Speaker 3: and even when I get your advice, sometimes I'm not
Speaker 3: going to take it. And I was like, that's real.
Speaker 3: I was like, I can appreciate you saying that out loud.
Speaker 2: And I think my point to saying that.
Speaker 3: Out loud is, yeah, as parents, sometimes maybe we fix
Speaker 3: a little bit too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so they never learned how to fix some things
Speaker 3: on their own. And I've learned to just be like
Speaker 3: a couch warrior. I've learned to just be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: just come, like, let's just grab an ice cream, just
Speaker 3: sit on the couch and just chit chat.
Speaker 2: Like I'm one of the little home girls. Like just
Speaker 2: tell me, tell dad for real. What? They said, I
Speaker 2: know they didn't say that. What they had on today?
Speaker 2: Like just, and just like, And she'll tell me stuff.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: When the idea of the parent is, I got to
Speaker 3: fix it. I got to fix it. I got to
Speaker 3: tell you what you need to do. Then it's like,
Speaker 3: when do they learn? When do they learn? And my
Speaker 3: other piece of advice for this, which I think for
Speaker 3: every audience I've ever had is always, they're like, I
Speaker 3: can see that one is nobody's listening to your TED talks.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Nobody is listening to your TED Talks. And stop interrupting
Speaker 3: these babies.
Speaker 2: Be quiet. Just be quiet. Be quiet.
Speaker 3: You want these kids to talk to you, but you
Speaker 3: talk too much. You need somebody to talk to that
Speaker 3: won't interrupt you. So let them have you as the
Speaker 3: person that they can talk to and not be interrupted.
Speaker 3: Don't interrupt them. Put some tape on your mouth and
Speaker 3: like put a notepad in your hand and write down,
Speaker 3: but they talk too long.
Speaker 2: I know. Let them talk.
Speaker 3: Would you rather them talk to you? Who would you
Speaker 3: like to replace you with for them to talk to?
Speaker 3: If you feel like they talk too much, who do
Speaker 3: you want to put in your place and let them
Speaker 3: have this conversation? Do you want them to put another
Speaker 3: teenager who generates dumb ideas at the exact same rate.
Speaker 2: That they do? No. All right, then sit down and listen.
Speaker 2: And thank God that they listening, they talking to you.
Speaker 2: Because they could not be talking to you and they
Speaker 2: can be talking to somebody else. And the problem is
Speaker 2: that not a lot of parents know how to listen.
Speaker 2: They don't know how to actively listen. They don't know
Speaker 2: how to ask questions from a place of curiosity as
Speaker 2: opposed to correctional.
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, let me, oh, so what did they do? Okay,
Speaker 3: so this is what you need to do. I didn't
Speaker 3: even ask you for your advice. I just asked you
Speaker 3: to listen. Like all I asked you to do was
Speaker 3: to be a listening ear for me. And now I
Speaker 3: know my voice is respected at home. My voice is
Speaker 3: valued at home. And I have someone that I can
Speaker 3: go to about these nuanced relationship-based things that I have going.
Speaker 2: On in school.
Speaker 3: And maybe you're going to give me some advice and
Speaker 3: maybe you're not going to give me some advice, but
Speaker 3: in either case, you're going to listen.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. You know, Dr. Lede,
Speaker 1: I would imagine that sometimes that some people listening to
Speaker 1: this might feel like this is too close to being
Speaker 1: one of their little friends, right? Like you kind of
Speaker 1: kiki-ing with them on the couch feels like a, like,
Speaker 1: is that a boundary issue? Like, how do they know
Speaker 1: that I am their parent versus one of their little friends?
Speaker 3: The goal is to listen to them. The goal is
Speaker 3: not to agree with what they're saying. Their friends may
Speaker 3: very well just go along with everything that they say. No,
Speaker 3: that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that
Speaker 3: you can't even practice listening. If you're in the middle
Speaker 3: of a conversation with a teen and you are saying
Speaker 3: they're talking too much, you're not even thinking about the
Speaker 3: right thing. Your mind is not even in the right
Speaker 3: frame of reference. This is not about being your child's friend.
Speaker 3: This is about being your child's listening ear. I'm going
Speaker 3: to ask this exact same question. The child wants to
Speaker 3: have the conversation, right? Who are you willing to replace
Speaker 3: yourself with for them to have this conversation that they're
Speaker 3: going to have no matter what? Wouldn't you rather it
Speaker 3: be you? And I always tell parents, act like you've
Speaker 3: been here before. Act like this ain't your first time.
Speaker 3: Half of what they're talking about, they ain't even going
Speaker 3: to do. It's the same thing with parents. I'm taking
Speaker 3: away this and that and two days later.
Speaker 2: Like, come on, man. The same thing with TED Talks.
Speaker 3: I ask any parent, OK, you give a TED Talk.
Speaker 3: The TED Talk lasts for an hour. The kid may
Speaker 3: get in five seconds. They may get in five words
Speaker 3: in an hour long TED Talk. If I asked you,
Speaker 3: what did you just finish talking about? Let me go
Speaker 3: back and look at the camera. And if you went
Speaker 3: back and looked at what you just finished talking about,
Speaker 3: you ain't nothing linear about that. Nobody can keep track
Speaker 3: of what you're talking about right now. And so to
Speaker 3: these parents who talk about, I'm not their little friend. No,
Speaker 3: you are not their little friend, but you can be
Speaker 3: their nurturing parent. I always say you can be firm
Speaker 3: and warm at the exact same time. You can have
Speaker 3: boundaries and still hug your child. You can have a
Speaker 3: collaborative tone and still put in consequence. All these things
Speaker 3: do not have to be mutually exclusive. I mean, I
Speaker 3: know where a lot of this comes from, this idea
Speaker 3: of I'm not their little friend.
Speaker 2: No, you are not their friend. No, you are not
Speaker 2: their friend, but you should be their listening ear. And
Speaker 2: I will also say this, maybe you didn't experience that.
Speaker 3: But if you're listening to this podcast and you have
Speaker 3: the luxury of of access to Dr.
Speaker 2: Joy, Dr.
Speaker 3: RJ, you got access to things that maybe your parents,
Speaker 3: I'm pretty confident your parents did not have access to. Right.
Speaker 2: Because I don't think there's too many of me that
Speaker 2: have come up out of the soil. I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: And so you have a luxury that your parents did
Speaker 3: not have. And I'm sitting here telling you that your
Speaker 3: children want you to listen to them. Because I know
Speaker 3: this because when they come in the office to talk
Speaker 3: to me, I may say 10 words, Dr.
Speaker 2: Joy. And them kids be sitting there like, they just
Speaker 2: keep going. They just keep on going. And they say
Speaker 2: everything they thinking. And they like, man, it's so good
Speaker 2: to be around somebody who's actually listening. Yeah. And I
Speaker 2: understand that there's this temporality component and the parents feel
Speaker 2: like time is moving. I got to hurry up and
Speaker 2: fix this now because they don't be an adult soon.
Speaker 3: Yes, they will be an adult soon. But maybe we
Speaker 3: work on goals and aspirations and all those other things
Speaker 3: on a different day. And today you just listen. Today,
Speaker 3: they just know, oh, my mama and my daddy are just.
Speaker 2: Listening to me.
Speaker 3: They can hear me. Because they are going to want
Speaker 3: me to hear them later. And as I talked about
Speaker 3: in the last episode. Communication is one of. the things
Speaker 3: that is learned best through modeling and so if you're
Speaker 3: not a good listener don't expect your child to be
Speaker 3: a good listener.
Speaker 2: Because their voice is not valued and.
Speaker 3: This whole idea of do as i say don't do
Speaker 3: as i do thing it doesn't really work out very
Speaker 3: well i'm gonna just keep it real with you we
Speaker 3: know that already so yeah.
Speaker 1: So you already talked a little bit on this episode
Speaker 1: and on our previous episode about some of the dumb decisions.
Speaker 2: That teens and tweens are making, right?
Speaker 1: That's kind of like par for the course. Is there
Speaker 1: a way that we can help them to slow down
Speaker 1: and maybe make better decisions without just kind of jumping
Speaker 1: to follow what everybody else is doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let them practice at home. Like, when do they
Speaker 2: practice at home? I use the excuse of... I will
Speaker 2: let my daughter make bad financial decisions at home.
Speaker 3: And then let her learn from it. Like, I need
Speaker 3: you to make some bad decisions at home. I'm not
Speaker 3: coming down on you every time you make a bad
Speaker 3: decision because I'm going to make a bad decision. And
Speaker 3: then nobody going to come down on me about it.
Speaker 3: And I'm not expecting a perfect child. I'm expecting a
Speaker 3: growing child. And I need you to grow from your mistakes.
Speaker 3: I don't need you to just grow from my experience.
Speaker 3: I don't need you to just grow from what I've
Speaker 3: been through.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: Some things, for sure, you don't have to touch the
Speaker 3: stove to know that it's hot. But in the case
Speaker 3: that you do touch the stove and that it's hot,
Speaker 3: I'm going to put some butter on it. And then
Speaker 3: you're going to know next time, don't touch it. And
Speaker 3: I'm not going to speak to you for touching the stove. No,
Speaker 3: we're going to put some butter on it and you're
Speaker 3: going to know next time, oh, yeah. And the way
Speaker 3: I think about it is like, When you go into
Speaker 3: an emergency department there's a big emergency right you don't
Speaker 3: want a trauma bay where the head doctor's in there
Speaker 3: is like frantic right you want somebody who's calm and
Speaker 3: chaos which goes back to my previous point act like
Speaker 3: you've been here before don't act like this your first
Speaker 3: time just because it ain't And I know y'all like
Speaker 3: you on the podcast with Dr.
Speaker 2: Joy. You can't be using ain't. I am. I am.
Speaker 3: I feel like I can use ain't and it's going
Speaker 3: to be all right. Because I know you know exactly
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. You got to act like you've
Speaker 3: been here before. And you can't panic every time your
Speaker 3: child makes a mistake.
Speaker 1: What do you think gets activated for us, Dr. Lede?
Speaker 1: Like I feel like for myself, like just speaking for myself,
Speaker 1: I think like when I feel my seventh grader makes
Speaker 1: a mistake, I sometimes get activated because I feel like
Speaker 1: it is an indictment on my parenting. Like, oh my gosh, what.
Speaker 2: Did I do?
Speaker 1: So what do you think gets activated for people? That's
Speaker 1: my example, but what for other people?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I said this on Dr. Kim
Speaker 3: Caswell's podcast, and it's going to be difficult to hear.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to speak from my eye standpoint so
Speaker 3: that nobody feels indicted. Sometimes I think too much of myself. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I epitomize who I am. And my children are
Speaker 3: from my lineage. Yeah. And so because my children are
Speaker 3: from my lineage, of course, they're going to be just
Speaker 3: like who I think.
Speaker 2: I am versus who I actually am.
Speaker 1: And who you were as a seventh grader.
Speaker 3: And who I was as a seventh grader. I make
Speaker 3: mistakes all the time. Do I think I'm raising a
Speaker 3: perfect child? I'm crazy if I think I'm raising a
Speaker 3: perfect child. I'm raising a child who's trying to grow
Speaker 3: in a very chaotic world. And when they make mistakes,
Speaker 3: I got to teach them that it's okay. I tell them,
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you something. I'm glad we're bringing
Speaker 3: this up.
Speaker 2: You know what I tell my kids all the time?
Speaker 3: My kids know this. My dad tells us all the time,
Speaker 3: I hope you fail. I hope they fail. And I
Speaker 3: hope they fail at home. I hope they fail at
Speaker 3: home all the time. And I'm not about to panic
Speaker 3: when you fail. I tell my daughter all the time,
Speaker 3: I hope you get the math question wrong. If you
Speaker 3: get it right, we ain't working on the right thing.
Speaker 3: I need to figure out where you're not good so
Speaker 3: we can work on those things. And I need you
Speaker 3: to be okay with failing. There's no way you're going
Speaker 3: to get very far in life if you're not okay
Speaker 3: with failing. Dwayne Wade said, my belief is stronger than
Speaker 3: your doubt. And the way I hijacked him and said,
Speaker 3: my belief is stronger than.
Speaker 2: My own doubt. Because every time you fail, you get this.
Speaker 3: Little inkling of like, oh, I'm not capable. No, I
Speaker 3: need you to be like, I'm more than capable. I
Speaker 3: just need to try a different way. And I think
Speaker 3: we have to be comfortable with our children failing. And
Speaker 3: it's not an indictment on you. It's an indictment on
Speaker 3: the fact that your child is growing. We don't argue
Speaker 3: with the toddler who's learning how to walk, who falls
Speaker 3: all the time. They are learning how to walk. And
Speaker 3: our teenagers are learning how to walk. And our young
Speaker 3: people are learning how to walk. And our young doctors
Speaker 3: are learning how to walk. So you put in more
Speaker 3: safeguards and stuff like that, but you still don't stop
Speaker 3: them from learning.
Speaker 2: How to walk. Right.
Speaker 3: And I think we have to be okay with our
Speaker 3: kids making mistakes and not panicking. Because if I made
Speaker 3: a mistake, I don't need you to panic. I need
Speaker 3: you to help me to figure out how to not
Speaker 3: make a mistake again. And if you're panicking, you ain't
Speaker 3: never made this mistake. You've made worse mistakes that you
Speaker 3: don't want nobody to know about. And so I think
Speaker 3: we have to like back up and stop idealizing our children.
Speaker 2: We have this idea like, oh, my kids need to
Speaker 2: be perfect. Or my kids need to, man, take some.
Speaker 2: My wife has this adage like, I don't need you
Speaker 2: to make straight A's. I need you to do your
Speaker 2: very best.
Speaker 3: And I hear parents go, oh, my kids make straight A's.
Speaker 3: And that's an indication of what for you? What is
Speaker 3: that an indication for you?
Speaker 2: What is that? Because sometimes we'll translate stuff like my
Speaker 2: kid makes good grades, that makes me a good parent.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it correlates that linearly. It doesn't
Speaker 3: really work out that way. You may have put some
Speaker 3: good supports in place educationally, but I think my point
Speaker 3: to all of this is that those quiet time questions
Speaker 3: that I always leave in content where I'm asking the
Speaker 3: parents to Don't do this when you're elevated. Don't do
Speaker 3: this when you're agitated. Don't do this when you're irritable.
Speaker 3: Do this when you get some quiet time. And just
Speaker 3: reflect on some of these things. Reflect on why is
Speaker 3: my child having a tantrum triggering for me?
Speaker 2: Like, why? Is that because when I.
Speaker 3: Had distress, nobody would allow me to have distress or
Speaker 3: would be harmful for me to be like, yo, I'm
Speaker 3: not feeling well right now?
Speaker 2: Okay, well, you need to work on that, but don't
Speaker 2: let your child hold that with you.
Speaker 3: And teenagers who are struggling with, some are struggling academically,
Speaker 3: some are not struggling academically, but they're struggling socially. Some
Speaker 3: are not struggling socially, not struggling academically, but they're struggling emotionally.
Speaker 3: You got to figure out what buckets your child is
Speaker 3: struggling in and those are the ones that you help
Speaker 3: them in.
Speaker 2: And that's just the reality of it. Because every kid
Speaker 2: has something that they need their parents to help them with.
Speaker 2: Every single child. You know? And that's just my thoughts
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: That's incredibly helpful. Thank you for that. So I want
Speaker 1: to move into the million dollar question that everybody has
Speaker 1: different opinions on around how are we helping our kids
Speaker 1: set boundaries and like figure out how to deal with
Speaker 1: stuff happening on social media? First of all, do you
Speaker 1: have thoughts around like a certain age? Like, is there
Speaker 1: an age limit that you think is appropriate for social media?
Speaker 1: Just your general thoughts kind of around social media stuff
Speaker 1: and kids.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Let me start off by saying something. Social media engagement
Speaker 3: is household dependent.
Speaker 2: You would have to think about it from the perspective
Speaker 2: of like, my child needs to learn how to have
Speaker 2: discipline to do a X, Y, and Z. In order
Speaker 2: to do any of those things, they're going to need
Speaker 2: an attention span. And let me.
Speaker 3: Preface something by saying, we are not talking about The
Speaker 3: child with neurodevelopmental differences who may have ADHD and autism.
Speaker 3: That's not, that's a different conversation. This is for the
Speaker 3: child who does not have ADHD, does not have.
Speaker 2: Any other neurodevelopmental differences. And what is competing with their
Speaker 2: ability to build discipline is technology. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: So the child who has technology competing with their attention
Speaker 3: to build discipline I'm going to tell you some of
Speaker 3: the things that they're competing with.
Speaker 4: Algorithms, what's new, the rewards of social media, and consistent
Speaker 4: and constant and pervasive stimulation. That's four things that are
Speaker 4: incredibly difficult to overcome. And so the first question I
Speaker 4: often ask parents is, who controls screen time? And they're like, well,
Speaker 4: I told him to get off the phone. You tell them,
Speaker 4: I said this in the last episode, your voice does
Speaker 4: not have superpowers. You are not God who said, and
Speaker 4: let there be light. It doesn't, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 3: Like as much as we want to say open Sesame
Speaker 3: and the door just opens.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It just like never actually does it. Like you
Speaker 2: got to get up and open the door.
Speaker 3: And so, Discipline around technology has to start with the parents.
Speaker 3: And so like I have a hard stance on no
Speaker 3: screens at the dinner table. No screens at the dinner table.
Speaker 3: Like I abhor a screen at the dinner table because
Speaker 3: it's like you need to learn how to communicate. You
Speaker 3: need to learn how to communicate with other people, to
Speaker 3: communicate with the people that you love. So like some
Speaker 3: basic things like no phones during meals, no screen during meals.
Speaker 3: Devices should charge in parents' rooms or outside.
Speaker 2: Of the rooms.
Speaker 3: Notifications off when you're doing homework. These are like very
Speaker 3: basic things. Establish screen-free family activities like painting, running in
Speaker 3: the water, going outside for a walk, playing with Legos.
Speaker 3: Having a conversation around the table. And then my favorite is,
Speaker 3: I tell parents, when you're at home and there's screens,
Speaker 3: carry a timer around. And say, okay, if your reward
Speaker 3: is screen time, you get 15 minutes of screen time.
Speaker 3: I'm setting the timer now. And in the beginning, the
Speaker 3: kid's going to fight with you. And eventually, guess what?
Speaker 2: You're not.
Speaker 3: My 15-year-old does not argue with us at all.
Speaker 2: 9 p.m. every day, cell phone, laptop in our bedroom.
Speaker 2: Right down on the floor. Her phone does not go
Speaker 2: in her room. We don't have to argue. But like
Speaker 2: maybe three or four years ago, we would have been
Speaker 2: having this conversation all the time. And we were consistent like, no,
Speaker 2: every night, every night.
Speaker 3: She goes to her grandparents' house back in Louisiana. I
Speaker 3: think this idea of just remove the device is not helpful.
Speaker 3: I think you have to replace it with something that's stimulating,
Speaker 3: something that creates connection, education, entertainment, sometimes escape and then
Speaker 3: relief from boredom. Sometimes, sometimes boredom is healthy. I'm okay
Speaker 3: with kids being like, yeah, I'm bored.
Speaker 2: Okay. All right. Sounds good. Thanks for letting me know.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here reading though. So I don't know what
Speaker 3: to tell you. Appreciate you letting me know that you're bored.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you being aware of how you feel right now.
Speaker 2: It's very helpful, but go figure it out.
Speaker 3: And then I think when you start talking to the teenagers,
Speaker 3: the most important collaborative conversation as they start to age
Speaker 3: is like, Yeah, what are you getting yourself into?
Speaker 2: What are you watching?
Speaker 3: How do you feel about yourself after you watch whatever
Speaker 3: you're watching? What's the best way for the two of
Speaker 3: us to stay in contact when you're not here in
Speaker 3: front of me? What's okay to remain private and what
Speaker 3: is absolutely not going to be private? And then helping
Speaker 3: them to understand that what you think you're posting privately
Speaker 3: will become public.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Whether you like it or not. Because there's... world
Speaker 2: is crazy and.
Speaker 3: I think at the end of the day like you
Speaker 3: know the other part of it is too is like
Speaker 3: you know i.
Speaker 2: Think the literacy culture in the home plays a huge
Speaker 2: role you know reading culture at home plays a huge role.
Speaker 3: It plays an incredible role but at the end of
Speaker 3: the day do you still visit libraries do you still
Speaker 3: visit bookstores Do you still go to activities like art
Speaker 3: galleries and stuff like that? And a lot of this.
Speaker 2: Stuff is free.
Speaker 3: It's literally just like getting in your car and you
Speaker 3: go for free. There's a lot of activities in libraries.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of activities for nonprofits all over. Pretty
Speaker 3: much every city has stuff going on that is not
Speaker 3: screen related that we can genuinely get our kids involved in. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm also speaking from a place of affluence, which I
Speaker 3: always take that into account. But I mean, I grew
Speaker 3: up incredibly poor. My mama still would make us go
Speaker 3: to the library. Even if the library we went to
Speaker 3: didn't have good books, it had books. And books are
Speaker 3: still exploratory measures. Like there's still things that can allow
Speaker 3: for you to take a flight. Books will allow you
Speaker 3: to take flights that money cannot. I say that all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So one of
Speaker 1: the ways that I think a lot of people get
Speaker 1: their kids involved in, you know, things outside of the
Speaker 1: home is sports. Right. So our next set of questions
Speaker 1: are around how do you encourage like good, healthy sports
Speaker 1: competition and like being a part of a team and
Speaker 1: like doing something that's extracurricular without instilling this idea of
Speaker 1: performance anxiety?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, man, this is you really got me with a
Speaker 3: doozy on this because I could talk about this for
Speaker 3: a while.
Speaker 2: I could talk about this for a while.
Speaker 3: A lot of kids who are trained to be like
Speaker 3: extremely competitive in these things, a lot of them have
Speaker 3: undiagnosed anxiety that.
Speaker 2: Doesn't really get.
Speaker 3: Recognized as a function of like how hard their parents
Speaker 3: are pushing it. And then you see it later on
Speaker 3: when they can't hide from it anymore. So I like
Speaker 3: to tell parents that like expectations are not inherently harmful
Speaker 3: and it becomes harmful when your child starts believing that
Speaker 3: the achievement determines what they're worth.
Speaker 2: And so I.
Speaker 3: Love when I hear parents say like, I love you
Speaker 3: independent of what the outcome is. And not like, I
Speaker 3: love you, but I'm like, show you that maybe I
Speaker 3: don't love you as a form of my, you know,
Speaker 3: passive way of telling you that I'm disappointed.
Speaker 2: No, I love you. I genuinely love you independent of
Speaker 2: the outcome. I think that there should be.
Speaker 3: Some separation of a few things, especially when it comes
Speaker 3: down to academic athletics and expectations. There are the child's goals.
Speaker 3: There are the parent's hopes. And then there are the
Speaker 3: parent's unresolved dreams and fears. That's three different things. There
Speaker 3: is what the child wants to accomplish, what the parent
Speaker 3: hopes for, and then the parent's unresolved dreams and fears.
Speaker 3: And I can tell you the one that gets missed
Speaker 3: the most is not the children's goals, nor is it
Speaker 3: the parent's hopes. It is the parent's unresolved dreams and fears.
Speaker 2: That is the.
Speaker 3: Piece that gets missed the most. Because why would I
Speaker 3: sit down and talk about what I missed? Or what
Speaker 3: didn't happen for me? And am I living this through
Speaker 3: this child who I have.
Speaker 2: So much say over?
Speaker 3: And so things that you can praise are things like preparation,
Speaker 3: their ability to persist even though things get tough, them
Speaker 3: asking for help, them being a good teammate, them recovering
Speaker 3: after mistakes, them being honest about the things that they're
Speaker 3: struggling with. Those are important things they can recognize. I
Speaker 3: used to be my daughter's tennis coach, my oldest daughter's
Speaker 3: tennis coach. And I had a coach. And coach told me,
Speaker 3: he said, when your daughter finishes practice or your daughter
Speaker 3: finishes a match, you have one job.
Speaker 2: Your job is to ask her, where are we getting
Speaker 2: ice cream at? I was like, coach, really? He was like, yes.
Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, if you want to erode.
Speaker 3: A relationship with your child, only be their coach. He
Speaker 3: was like, you and that kid go get some ice cream.
Speaker 3: If they want to talk about it, y'all talk about it.
Speaker 3: If they don't want to talk about it, it's okay.
Speaker 2: It's okay. Especially if they get back up and trying again.
Speaker 3: And I think going back to say this again is
Speaker 3: incredibly important. Having unresolved dreams and fears does not make
Speaker 3: you a bad parent, nor does it make you a
Speaker 3: bad person. But it does make you someone who needs
Speaker 3: to consider that. Because there's a void and a space
Speaker 3: there that is for you to hold, not for your
Speaker 3: child to hold. Your child is not going to be
Speaker 3: what you thought you should be. And you need to
Speaker 3: be okay with that. Your child is going to be
Speaker 3: whoever they develop into, not whoever you want them to be.
Speaker 3: And that's sometimes hard for parents to hear out loud.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And we're talking about it within the context of sports,
Speaker 1: but I think that that applies to lots of the
Speaker 1: conversation we had today, right? Like how much of our
Speaker 1: own resolved fears, our hopes and dreams really we kind
Speaker 1: of project onto our kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the other question I have about sports stuff is
Speaker 1: how do you hold space for your child's big dream
Speaker 1: while also helping them to be maybe more realistic?
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So like all of the kids that want to be
Speaker 1: professional football players or I want to, you know, be
Speaker 1: like the top 1% tennis player in the world. And
Speaker 1: we know only one out of 5,000 people like get
Speaker 1: this opportunity. So you want to encourage that, but you
Speaker 1: also want to help them maybe expand their thinking, like
Speaker 1: maybe have a plan B. What would be your suggestion
Speaker 1: for how we support kids with their big dreams?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a delicate balance of letting them
Speaker 3: to arrive there.
Speaker 2: You're not going..
Speaker 3: Get them to arrive there as a function of what
Speaker 3: you think as much as you want them to. Like,
Speaker 3: I mean, we kind of do this trick in our
Speaker 3: head all the time where it's like, if I tell them,
Speaker 3: then that's exactly what they'll think.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Good luck.
Speaker 3: Good luck in telling a child what you think. And
Speaker 3: then they go automatically just adopt what you think. That's diabolical.
Speaker 3: Diabolical at its best. And I'm going to tell you
Speaker 3: something to that point. The idea of realistic is tough
Speaker 3: with me. For me specifically. My wife of 20 years,
Speaker 3: she's only really had one verse of encouragement for me
Speaker 3: for the last 20 years. She was like, yeah, you
Speaker 3: don't surprise me when you do well. I just don't
Speaker 3: get up for that. You surprise me when you fail.
Speaker 3: So try your best not to surprise me. That's the
Speaker 3: only thing she would tell me. And my point to
Speaker 3: saying that is, is that like maybe somebody would have
Speaker 3: called it unrealistic for me to become who I am today.
Speaker 2: Maybe. And I got here at 40. But I got here.
Speaker 3: I think somewhere that desire to be great was fostered.
Speaker 2: And now the desire is maybe stronger than we can control.
Speaker 3: And so the athletic system may be the very thing
Speaker 3: that will teach them that. And they'll learn a lot
Speaker 3: in that process. But the process of becoming great at
Speaker 3: something is something that can be utilized across the board. Like,
Speaker 3: you know, Malcolm Gladwell talks about the 10,000 hours.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot.
Speaker 3: Of people who don't make it to the NBA still
Speaker 3: put in the 10,000 hours and they learned a very
Speaker 3: valuable lesson, which is how to become excellent at something.
Speaker 3: And once they learn how to apply it to something else,
Speaker 3: they already know the formula it takes to become good
Speaker 3: at something. You practice, you practice, you learn, you retool,
Speaker 3: you get feedback, you practice, you learn, you retool, you
Speaker 3: get practice, you feed.
Speaker 2: And then eventually at some point you become, oh, really
Speaker 2: good at it. I think of it as kind of
Speaker 2: like residency. I've been in residency for five years now.
Speaker 2: Like this is my fifth year.
Speaker 3: And so, man, at this point, I'm pretty convinced I've
Speaker 3: gotten enough practice.
Speaker 2: But clearly they're like, no, you need a little bit more,
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 3: And so I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: that conversation between the parents and the child needs to
Speaker 3: be around, okay, what.
Speaker 2: Are your goals? What are your goals? I'll never forget this.
Speaker 3: When I interviewed with Steve Harvey, And Steve Harvey said
Speaker 3: that he never had a plan B.
Speaker 2: He said he always had a plan A. I was like, dang.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's crazy. And now in hindsight, like I.
Speaker 3: Understand exactly what he's talking about. That like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: never had a plan B. I only had a plan A.
Speaker 3: And I was willing to do what it took to
Speaker 3: make plan A work. And I think that's the piece
Speaker 3: that sometimes is challenging for parents because they see the
Speaker 3: child right now and they're like, I don't think you're
Speaker 3: doing what it takes to get to where you want
Speaker 3: to be, but you've never been there before. And maybe
Speaker 3: they're in the stagnation period. It like, you know, even
Speaker 3: when I was in the Navy, they was like, you
Speaker 3: ain't will never be a doctor.
Speaker 2: And I was like, what?
Speaker 3: And then when I got out of the Navy and
Speaker 3: I became a security guard at the hospital, and I
Speaker 3: was like, I don't think you got what it takes
Speaker 3: to be a doctor.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, cool. All right.
Speaker 3: Now I'm four different types of doctor. Like, I think
Speaker 3: sometimes we can kill people's dreams with our own dreams
Speaker 3: and fears. Or the unresolved dreams and fears of our own.
Speaker 2: It's like, you can't do that because I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2: And so you support them.
Speaker 3: The child, honestly, more often than not, will help you
Speaker 3: to understand what's reasonable.
Speaker 2: The system won't shake out. Kid wants to go to
Speaker 2: the NFL.
Speaker 3: And they're not really cutting into high school or whatever,
Speaker 3: then the system probably won't.
Speaker 2: Help them to figure out a different pathway.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Or maybe they'll get to college and help and figure
Speaker 2: out or maybe they'll get to college and blossom. Those
Speaker 2: parts we don't know.
Speaker 3: We do have to foster the kid with the resources
Speaker 3: we do have reasonably to try to get to their goals.
Speaker 2: And maybe they won't land at the goal that they
Speaker 2: thought they would get at, but they'll land somewhere. That's
Speaker 2: for sure. They will land somewhere.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of athletes who are now physicians, lawyers, CEOs,
Speaker 3: business owners, influencers, motivational speakers, all these different kinds of things.
Speaker 2: I think about Ryan Clark all the time.
Speaker 3: Ryan Clark went from being a world-class athlete in the
Speaker 3: National Football League to now a world-class journalist. He's a
Speaker 3: podcast host and people know him all over the world
Speaker 3: for his ability to think out loud and critically analyze
Speaker 3: things and stuff of that nature. But like somebody could
Speaker 3: have easily told him at some period before, like, no,
Speaker 3: you good at football, but.
Speaker 2: You could never be, you know, a world renowned ESPN host.
Speaker 2: Like then what? And then he actually doesn't. Then what?
Speaker 2: And so I don't know if we know.
Speaker 3: We don't know who the next great person is going
Speaker 3: to be. But what I do know is that the
Speaker 3: people who did become great were fostered by somebody.
Speaker 2: I talk about it all the time.
Speaker 3: Like people used to say security guards don't become doctors,
Speaker 3: which they were right because I became a double doctor.
Speaker 2: So, you know, it is what it is. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, you know, I think we have to, within reason,
Speaker 3: encourage these kids, man. They got enough things telling them
Speaker 3: they can't do something.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. They don't have a shortage of things telling
Speaker 2: them they can't do something.
Speaker 3: Especially Black girls. I'm raising two Black girls. And I
Speaker 3: love this podcast, Therapy for Black Girls. So specifically, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be biased here and say, like, especially.
Speaker 2: For Black girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can do whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, Michelle Obama was not the first lady of
Speaker 2: the world getting talked about for her braids. Like, that's crazy. Like, man, listen, Robby.
Speaker 2: Tell my daughter she could be an astronaut, baby. Go
Speaker 2: to Mars. Go to Mars. Wherever, wherever.
Speaker 1: So my last question, Dr. Ledea, is a little bit
Speaker 1: of a funny one, but the parents really want to know,
Speaker 1: and I specifically want to know, is there some science
Speaker 1: behind why these teens and tweens want to wear coats
Speaker 1: and hoodies in the summertime? And then when it's actually cold,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be in shorts. Is there a scientific reason?
Speaker 2: It's cool.
Speaker 1: It's just a cool thing to do.
Speaker 2: It's a cool thing to do, man. It's a cool
Speaker 2: thing to do. I'm pretty sure we had some quirks
Speaker 2: when we were that age, too. Probably, probably. Like, man,
Speaker 2: come on, man. We was wearing starter jackets, bruh.
Speaker 1: Starter jackets were very cool. But I feel like I
Speaker 1: only remember wearing a starter jacket when it was weather, like,
Speaker 1: jacket time. I don't feel like I remember wearing a jacket.
Speaker 1: So you were wearing your starter jacket all year.
Speaker 3: I wasn't wearing mine, but I know all the people
Speaker 3: care we was.
Speaker 4: Nah.
Speaker 2: And ain't nobody saying nothing to them.
Speaker 1: Hilarious.
Speaker 2: And now these kids.
Speaker 3: Got AirPods and cell phones and.
Speaker 2: You know, makeup and, you know, lip gloss. They don't
Speaker 2: even pass phone numbers on sticky notes no more. No.
Speaker 2: They pass out IG. And I don't even think it's IG.
Speaker 2: I think it's Snapchat. Snapchat. Yeah, it might not even
Speaker 2: be Snapchat. It might be TTs. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, you know, like, hey, you know, you just got to, hey, hey,
Speaker 3: rock with them. That's the least harmful thing, man. That's
Speaker 3: not the end of the world.
Speaker 2: You know, that's not.
Speaker 1: So let them wear their hoodies.
Speaker 2: You are a fan of letting them just walk out.
Speaker 2: First of all, let me ask you this question. The
Speaker 2: kid is wearing a hoodie. Who bought him a hoodie?
Speaker 1: I bought the hoodie for the winter, Dr.
Speaker 3: Lene.
Speaker 2: No, you bought the hoodie for them to wear. You
Speaker 2: didn't buy the hoodie for the winter. Not to mention,
Speaker 2: you know, you're wearing this $ 100 hoodie. Who's $ 100 bought it?
Speaker 2: Who's $ 100 bought it? Where the $ 100 come from?
Speaker 3: How many times we clock in to get that hundo?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And not you mad they
Speaker 2: get a use out of it.
Speaker 3: Right, right.
Speaker 1: We should be grateful that they're actually putting our money
Speaker 1: to good use.
Speaker 2: They could be throwing it under the bed. Then you're
Speaker 2: going to be mad at them. I buy you all
Speaker 2: the clothes and you don't even wear it. Well, now
Speaker 2: I'm wearing it and you got a problem with that too. True, true.
Speaker 1: It's all about perspective, right?
Speaker 2: It's all about perspective. Yeah, man. You know, hey, that's
Speaker 2: a sign you probably done made it a little bit.
Speaker 2: If your kid can just wear a hoodie, then when
Speaker 2: they get out of.
Speaker 3: School, they're going to ask you for Chick-fil-A and Starbucks. Like,
Speaker 3: you already know how this go. Yeah, I ain't giving
Speaker 3: y'all no Starbucks and Chick-fil-A. But why are we in
Speaker 3: the driveway right now? Why are we in the drive-thru?
Speaker 3: What are we doing in the drive-thru right now? Why
Speaker 3: are you on the app right now?
Speaker 2: You're right. You got all these points. Stars. Gold stars.
Speaker 2: You a diamond member at Chick-fil-A. I'm not wrong.
Speaker 3: You're not.
Speaker 2: You're not.
Speaker 1: You calling us out just a little bit. Just a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 2: That's going to be my content today as a matter
Speaker 2: of fact.
Speaker 3: You a diamond member at Chick-fil-A and mad at the
Speaker 3: kid for asking for it.
Speaker 2: How they got diamond? Where you get diamond from?
Speaker 1: Everybody helped. Everybody helped.
Speaker 2: It was it was a group effort. Well, thank you so.
Speaker 1: Much for answering all of my questions, Dr.
Speaker 2: Lede.
Speaker 1: This has been so incredibly helpful. Please remind people where
Speaker 1: they can get more of your content and stay connected
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 3: And you can follow me on all the social media
Speaker 3: platforms at Dr.
Speaker 2: Russell Lede. That's D-R-R-U-S-S-E-L-E. L-E-D-E-T. And if you're ever.
Speaker 3: Interested in me coming to speak at one of your
Speaker 3: events or whatever, you can visit.
Speaker 2: Www.russleday.com as always. I love y'all. I'm praying for y'all
Speaker 2: and I'll see y'all next time.
Speaker 1: Perfect. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Dr. Leday was able to join me
Speaker 1: for this conversation and excited that he was able to
Speaker 1: come back and thoughtfully engage with our wonderful community. To
Speaker 1: learn more about him and his work, be sure to
Speaker 1: visit the show notes at therapyforblackgirls.com slash session 478. And
Speaker 1: don't forget to text this episode to two of your
Speaker 1: girls right now and tell them to check it out.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail
Speaker 1: with your questions or suggestions for the podcast? If you
Speaker 1: have movies or books you'd like for us to review
Speaker 1: or have thoughts about topics we should discuss, drop us
Speaker 1: a message at memo.fm slash therapyforblackgirls and let us know
Speaker 1: what's on your mind. We just might feature it on
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,
Speaker 1: visit our therapist directory at therapyforblackgirls.com slash directory. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at therapyforblackgirls. And come on
Speaker 1: over and join us in our Patreon community for exclusive updates,
Speaker 1: behind-the-scenes content.
Speaker 2: And much more.
Speaker 1: You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com. This episode was produced
Speaker 1: by Elise Ellis, Inde Chivu, and Bria Mosley. Editing was
Speaker 1: done by Denison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining
Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this
Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take good care.