Speaker 1: Hey, there are podcast listeners. It is Mango here and
Speaker 1: I've got something special, a little different for you today.
Speaker 1: It is a show called Skyline Drive that I made
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago with my friends. I'm actually
Speaker 1: working on season two right now. It's going to be
Speaker 1: out in June, so I thought this would be the
Speaker 1: perfect time to catch up on season one. The first
Speaker 1: season of Skyline Drive is a show about astrology, or
Speaker 1: kind of about astrology. At first, I thought it would
Speaker 1: be a bit like Part Time Genius, with facts and
Speaker 1: fun stories told by me, a total skeptic. But then
Speaker 1: this astrologery made a terrible prediction about my dad and
Speaker 1: it came true, and it really changed the trajectory of
Speaker 1: this series. So I went on this epic journey across
Speaker 1: continents to find out what it means when you don't
Speaker 1: believe in astrology, but astrology happens to you. And along
Speaker 1: the way I still found all these wild facts, like
Speaker 1: the true story of Nancy Reagan's obsession with astrology and
Speaker 1: how it affected the world, or these two baseball astrologers
Speaker 1: who actually help managers figure out which players to pick
Speaker 1: in drafts. There's even a woman who turned to the
Speaker 1: stars to write the last chapter of her life. It
Speaker 1: was a joy to make. It was hard to make,
Speaker 1: but Apple actually called it one of their favorite series
Speaker 1: of all times, which is kind of incredible. So I
Speaker 1: hope you'll check it out starting today with episode one.
Speaker 1: We're going to air it every Sunday through the course
Speaker 1: of the series. And the first episode also features one
Speaker 1: of my favorite favorite people, aj Jacobs, who has a
Speaker 1: hilarious story and he's obviously one of our favorite guests
Speaker 1: at PTG, so I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2: Warning. The following episode contains adult language, discussion of miracles,
Speaker 2: arranged marriages, Channing Tatum, and disclosure of at least one
Speaker 2: Bible approved stoning. Sensitive listeners take care.
Speaker 1: So here's a confession I'm gonna make right at the
Speaker 1: top of the show. I don't believe in astrology, but
Speaker 1: astrology keeps happening to me now. Everyone says podcasting is
Speaker 1: the most visual medium, so I made you a slideshow
Speaker 1: to try to explain. This is the real skyline drive.
Speaker 1: It's in Delaware, and growing up when I couldn't sleep,
Speaker 1: it's one of the many places I would drive to
Speaker 1: look at the stars. This is the moon. It rules
Speaker 1: our emotions. This is mercury in retrograde. You know it
Speaker 1: because it makes life miserable. This is Rahu and Kitu.
Speaker 1: They're important and mischievous nodes in Veda astrology. They're prominent
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump's horoscope, and they're also responsible for Paris hiltan.
Speaker 1: This is me. I was born May one, nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1: This is the sky at the time I was born.
Speaker 1: In Western astrology, it makes me a Taurus. These are
Speaker 1: some other tauruses, polepot Iatola, Komeni, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler,
Speaker 1: Barbara Streisan. The fact that we're all tauruses has made
Speaker 1: me doubt astrology for a very long time. These are
Speaker 1: my parents. They've been hitched fifty one years and every
Speaker 1: morning my dad makes my mom a cup of tea
Speaker 1: and then they sit and do the spelling being pencil.
Speaker 1: It's adorable, right. These are my parents calling. In the
Speaker 1: middle of this recording, sim Marisha, I thank you a girl,
Speaker 1: so it's calling back, give me a call. This is
Speaker 1: India when I was growing up, where it's like yoga
Speaker 1: and meditation and turmeric and astrology. These are words that
Speaker 1: were part of my Indian life, but they weren't a
Speaker 1: part of my going to school fitting into America one.
Speaker 1: But now now everyone has an opinion about it. I'm
Speaker 1: a Gemini, which I've heard is bab.
Speaker 3: I'm a Libra, so I'm indecisive.
Speaker 4: That's definitely true.
Speaker 1: I'm a torus. Find it starts to be beautiful. It
Speaker 1: sucks that we can't see you starting New York because
Speaker 1: all the lights.
Speaker 4: I know a few people who are kind of into it,
Speaker 4: and they like, ask, yo, do you see the horoscope today?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, nah, bro, not really, I'm not worried
Speaker 4: about what the horoscope says.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people don't believe in it,
Speaker 2: but why can't people just believe in things for fun,
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Have to be backed up by anything.
Speaker 5: But if you believe in fantasy football, why can't you
Speaker 5: believe in astrology.
Speaker 1: A few months ago, my friends and I set out
Speaker 1: to make this show about astrology. We wanted to run
Speaker 1: around the city and have some wild adventures and understand
Speaker 1: why after so many millennia, people still look to the
Speaker 1: sky for answers. This is an astrologer I met in
Speaker 1: Queen's He promised me, you're gonna dig this show.
Speaker 6: But I think if you do your own show, it'll
Speaker 6: become a super hit, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: This is a graph of how much I believed in
Speaker 1: astrology before our session. Not that much. This is a
Speaker 1: graph of how much I started believing thirty minutes later
Speaker 1: when something horrible he said came true.
Speaker 6: That's why I asked. From the time it started a
Speaker 6: couple of years back till now, the situation doesn't look good.
Speaker 1: This is me traveling halfway around the world to answer
Speaker 1: the biggest question my entire life. This is a shop
Speaker 1: in India where your fortune is waiting for you. It
Speaker 1: was written centuries ago and put on a shelf and
Speaker 1: the shopkeepers know which one to pull because it's coated
Speaker 1: by your thumbprint. And the time you're going to walk
Speaker 1: through that door, this is me walking through that door.
Speaker 1: I'm Munga's Particular from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This is Skyline
Speaker 1: Drive Chapter one. Leave your acts at home.
Speaker 4: So I figured, you know, I do need to sown
Speaker 4: an astrologer. And there are a bunch of astrologers on
Speaker 4: the Upper West Side who have set off with these.
Speaker 1: Wait till you're looking for an astrologer to sewn.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 4: I need to check it off the list.
Speaker 1: I've got a hundred, you know already, This reporting and
Speaker 1: starting off weirder than I thought. It's ten o'clock on
Speaker 1: a bright summer day, and I'm standing here with Aj Jacobs.
Speaker 4: I am an author and a journalist and a pisces.
Speaker 1: In addition to being a pisces or technically on the
Speaker 1: cusp of pisces and ares. AJ's a friend and he's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite writers. I've come to meet him
Speaker 1: in this neighborhood because in two thousand and seven he
Speaker 1: wrote a New York Times best called The Year of
Speaker 1: Living Biblically. The book was a phenomenon. It came out
Speaker 1: in multiple languages, There were magazine and TV pieces about it.
Speaker 1: It was such a big deal that at one point
Speaker 1: Marlon Wayne's was lined up to play Aj in the
Speaker 1: Network TV version.
Speaker 4: The premise was that I would follow all the rules
Speaker 4: of the Bible as literally as possible. So that meant
Speaker 4: the famous ones like the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor,
Speaker 4: but also the lesser known ones like you cannot wear
Speaker 4: clothes made of two different kinds of fabrics. So I
Speaker 4: had to get rid of all of my polycotton blends.
Speaker 1: Giving up polycotton blends is just one of the hardshifs
Speaker 1: Aja endured in the name of journalism. He also grew
Speaker 1: a massive beard, shoved of wild birds so he could
Speaker 1: steal its egg and say a prayer on it. And
Speaker 1: he followed seven hundred other biblical rules literally in an
Speaker 1: attempt to understand religion. And somewhere along the way, he
Speaker 1: decided that to fully appreciate the Bible.
Speaker 4: You actually had to stone people who who committed these abominations.
Speaker 4: And the abominations included adulter a, breaking the Sabbath, but
Speaker 4: also astrology, witchcraft, divination, they're all sort of lumped together.
Speaker 1: Just the fact that he decided to stone someone was
Speaker 1: a shock to me. I mean, Aj is one of
Speaker 1: the nicest people I know, but that's how committed he was.
Speaker 4: I didn't want to go to jail for assault. I
Speaker 4: just wanted to check it off my list, you know,
Speaker 4: stone and astrologer check. So I walked by this astrologer
Speaker 4: on the street and just very subtly dropped the pebble
Speaker 4: so that it landed on her.
Speaker 1: Shoe, kind of a drive by stoning, And I.
Speaker 4: Was thinking she's probably not even gonna notice because I
Speaker 4: just kept walking. Oh she noticed, and she's like, what's
Speaker 4: going on? Why did you do that? And so I
Speaker 4: had to tell the truth. Because I was following the Bible.
Speaker 4: I thought maybe she'll think it's funny. She did not
Speaker 4: think it's funny.
Speaker 1: She I was pissed.
Speaker 4: She started yelling at me like, F you go to
Speaker 4: f and hell, I was rattled. Even if you're trying
Speaker 4: to stone someone in modern day using pebbles, people don't
Speaker 4: like it. Well that's a lesson.
Speaker 1: That's a takeaway rule number one, don't stone an astrologer.
Speaker 1: It wasn't the advice I'd come for, but I wrote
Speaker 1: it down anyway. But the thing I really wanted to know.
Speaker 1: The reason I traveled all the way out here to
Speaker 1: meet with AJ was to ask him how to make
Speaker 1: the show, because doing the show on astrology it actually
Speaker 1: makes me nervous, like is there a way to talk
Speaker 1: about how accurate a fortune telling parrot could possibly be?
Speaker 1: Or is there a way to joke about whether an
Speaker 1: astro curse can make you bald? Because even if the
Speaker 1: show makes me look silly, like I don't want to
Speaker 1: get disinvited from a family wedding because I said something
Speaker 1: that hurt friends or family or really anyone who puts
Speaker 1: stock in these subjects. As I'm trying to uncover threads
Speaker 1: and things like, how do you tell a story delicately
Speaker 1: where you're not offending people but still engaging with all
Speaker 1: the subjects.
Speaker 4: I had that exact dilemma when I was writing The
Speaker 4: Year of Living Biblically, because I was coming in as
Speaker 4: an agnostic writing about religion. My big overall advice is
Speaker 4: go in with deep curiosity. Don't go in with an
Speaker 4: agenda that you're trying to disprove or prove astrology. You're
Speaker 4: just an explorer, So just go in like with no acts,
Speaker 4: leave your axes at home.
Speaker 1: That I think I can do. After the break, we
Speaker 1: talked to an astrologer who doesn't believe in astrology. Take
Speaker 1: a subway ride to Queen's and hear this from my mom.
Speaker 7: I felt like a josic though.
Speaker 1: Chapter two, just for fun is the phone listening? Are
Speaker 1: you listening through the phone pattern?
Speaker 6: AI?
Speaker 1: The algorithm that is the pattern? Back in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: one of my friends shot me a text linking to
Speaker 1: this video of Channing Tatum, the actor had uploaded it
Speaker 1: himself after using an astrology app called the Pattern, But
Speaker 1: when Channing's readings became a little too spot on, he
Speaker 1: freaked out, are you listening through my phone and then
Speaker 1: just regurgitating the stuff that I'm afraid of and the
Speaker 1: stuff you know what?
Speaker 6: Pattern?
Speaker 3: People?
Speaker 1: You should just call me. I need answers right now,
Speaker 1: poor Channing. I don't know if he ever got his answers,
Speaker 1: but what I do know is that astrology is ubiquitous
Speaker 1: and lucrative. One venture capital investor told The New York
Speaker 1: Times that the app co star this Pattern competitor had
Speaker 1: the POTENTI to be a twenty four billion dollar business,
Speaker 1: claiming you could one day be as big as Spotify.
Speaker 1: But if astrology is as big an opportunity as everyone's saying,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if my company should get in on the act.
Speaker 1: After all, it feels so obvious that I don't know
Speaker 1: even a nine year old could see the potential. So
Speaker 1: I decided to try to pitch out on my nine
Speaker 1: year old Ruby.
Speaker 3: Hey, only, why let me get this closet.
Speaker 1: I brought you to this closet because I wanted to
Speaker 1: pitch you on an astrology app. Are you ready for it?
Speaker 1: Why is that? What do you think about astrology?
Speaker 3: It's dumb?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, Well, maybe you're not the right person for it.
Speaker 1: But the reason I came to you is because you
Speaker 1: actually have a bank. You spend only my money. You
Speaker 1: seem to hoard all your money, and you keep all
Speaker 1: of Henry's money as well, which you charge him a
Speaker 1: small fee for. So I thought you might be the
Speaker 1: savviest person in this family. Is it okay if I
Speaker 1: pitch you an astrology app?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: So, so here's my case for it. These aren't your
Speaker 1: grandmother's horse ghosts, right, They're talking to you in this
Speaker 1: very fresh and fun way. They're up to the minute
Speaker 1: with NASA data. They look beautiful, and they have a
Speaker 1: chat feature where astrologers will chat with you live about
Speaker 1: your birth charts. Right. And then by twenty nineteen, right,
Speaker 1: like you could see, astrology are starting to take over
Speaker 1: Bumble the dating app. They start allowing you to sort
Speaker 1: your matches by their birth signs, so like you could say,
Speaker 1: like I only want to date Tauruses, or I only
Speaker 1: want to date Geminis or whatever. In fact, astrology in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen was a two point two billion dollar market.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Mind, I can't help
Speaker 1: whether you're serious or not. But apps made forty million
Speaker 1: dollars that year, and in fact, the next year, when
Speaker 1: COVID really hit, people started searching for birth charts and astrology.
Speaker 1: Both of those search hit five year peaks on Google.
Speaker 1: So it's no wonder that all these venture capital funds
Speaker 1: had started investing in astrology apps early and then continue
Speaker 1: to invest. And I'm here to ask you to invest
Speaker 1: in my astrology app. What do you think?
Speaker 3: Oh? I know, I'm just speenning. Oh my running on
Speaker 3: a skateboard? Now on you?
Speaker 1: Okay? Well, so Ruby, what type of business would you
Speaker 1: invest in? Bubble gum? Okay? Chapter three, Truth and Poetry.
Speaker 1: When you go out with the recorder in hand, it's
Speaker 1: interesting to see who will talk on tape. We found
Speaker 1: scientists at NASA who actually wouldn't talk about their interest
Speaker 1: in astrology to us because they were afraid of losing
Speaker 1: their jobs. We found PhDs and postdocs who are worried
Speaker 1: that if they talked at all to our podcasts, even
Speaker 1: to say that astrology was nonsense, they would face professional repercussions.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is insanity. What a lightning rod astrology
Speaker 1: can be. But luckily we found Jamie Green.
Speaker 5: My grandfather showed me a little half of a peanut
Speaker 5: that had the germ in it, and he said, that's
Speaker 5: going to become a plant. And it was just things
Speaker 5: like that that got me interested in the world, which
Speaker 5: is the same as being interested in science.
Speaker 1: Jamie is a celebrated science.
Speaker 5: Writer, and I'm Sagittarius, although you would not know it
Speaker 5: from looking at anything about my life. I've got some
Speaker 5: planet in Capricorn that explains why I'm not an impulsive adventurer.
Speaker 1: She has a new book coming out called The Possibility
Speaker 1: of Life, and she's co editor of the annual Best
Speaker 1: American Science and Nature writing volumes. And whether it's chatting
Speaker 1: about our garden or the way we perceive constellations, her
Speaker 1: capacity for wonder is incredible and infectious. But perhaps what
Speaker 1: I love most about Jamie was how she clarified that
Speaker 1: science and astrology don't actually have to be at odds
Speaker 1: with one another, that we don't need science to disprove astrology.
Speaker 1: Not that she thinks astrology is a science.
Speaker 5: Exactly scientifically, in terms of astronomy, astrology doesn't hold a
Speaker 5: lot of meaning because it's all very human centric. From
Speaker 5: the point of view of looking at the stars from Earth.
Speaker 1: The stars are light years apart. They have no real
Speaker 1: relation to each other except in our minds. But that relationship,
Speaker 1: the one we make up while looking up at the stars,
Speaker 1: that means something, or it can mean something if you
Speaker 1: want it to. It's like a much more.
Speaker 5: Eloquent, poetic personal fortune cookie. And I don't mean that disparagingly.
Speaker 5: I just think that it's for you to take from
Speaker 5: it what you need. And like, we don't think it's
Speaker 5: anti science to say a poem is true. I think
Speaker 5: that's where science gets defensive, is when people say that
Speaker 5: astrology is a science and has physical roots in the stars.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh no, it doesn't, but it's true the
Speaker 5: way a poem is true.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I love that. I mean,
Speaker 1: as someone who's a skeptic but also a romantic, this
Speaker 1: idea that astrology is true the same way a poem
Speaker 1: is true. That feels right to me. And it's something
Speaker 1: my friend Pete also said when I talked to him,
Speaker 1: Pete Steele is, well, it's complicated, so.
Speaker 8: Like, even though I was in like a semi successful musician.
Speaker 8: I was like, I need to make money somehow, like
Speaker 8: right now, Like what other skills do I have?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 8: I do astrology.
Speaker 1: He is a rock star, like a real rock star.
Speaker 1: He used to be in the Walkman, Oh, that massive
Speaker 1: seminal indie rock band. And yes, his backup career was
Speaker 1: professional astrology. When he was younger, he trained with this
Speaker 1: big famous guru. He was living in his guest house
Speaker 1: and that's where he learned to read star charts.
Speaker 8: You would take him back to him and he would
Speaker 8: say like, no, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Speaker 8: Like you're wrong, you know, And then he kind of
Speaker 8: in very traditional style like yell at the apprentice sort
Speaker 8: of thing.
Speaker 1: Kung Fu master right, a very.
Speaker 8: Very karate kid kind of feeling right.
Speaker 4: Sign.
Speaker 1: But here's the other thing. Pete doesn't even believe in astrology.
Speaker 1: He's a rock star who does astrology for politicians and
Speaker 1: World Bank economists and all sorts of interesting folks, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in it.
Speaker 8: It's just art to me. And I don't mean that dismissively, like,
Speaker 8: but that's like my whole being, Like that's what I
Speaker 8: care about.
Speaker 1: What he believes really is in a more vivid reality,
Speaker 1: a kind of embroidered view of the world. Pete and
Speaker 1: I both spent formative years in India, and we have
Speaker 1: a certain comfort in the magical.
Speaker 8: If you read like one hundred Years of Solitude or
Speaker 8: something like that, world of like this kind of magical Columbia,
Speaker 8: you know, it's like that felt very similar in a
Speaker 8: lot of ways to how we were raised.
Speaker 1: Magical explanations have been woven throughout my life, like why
Speaker 1: was my family's little community in India so well off
Speaker 1: a century ago? You could say it's because of luck
Speaker 1: or global economics. You could say it's because when the
Speaker 1: Civil War was happening in the US, England actually needed
Speaker 1: more sources of cotton to replace all the cotton that
Speaker 1: the US had been producing. And my family they just
Speaker 1: happened to be in the right place to manage mills
Speaker 1: and plant cotton on their land. Or you could tell
Speaker 1: the story in a way that's way, way more magical
Speaker 1: that a great great answer. Sester had this powerful vision
Speaker 1: from a goddess that if he chanted a simple string
Speaker 1: of prayers every single night, and he taught all his
Speaker 1: children to sing it, and they taught all their children,
Speaker 1: His people would be protected for years, and for most
Speaker 1: of my life, I only knew that second story Shatad
Speaker 1: would be Maji I must love yea ma Luxhmi Maiji
Speaker 1: must love ja ja kadambe I'm babie Chapter four, Mopeds
Speaker 1: and Mini Skirts. Arranged marriage has always been this thing
Speaker 1: that's hard for me to talk about. When I first
Speaker 1: moved to Delaware, kids in my elementary school had all
Speaker 1: these questions for me about being Indian, right, like does
Speaker 1: your family sleep on a bed of nails? Can charm snakes?
Speaker 1: Just you know, these things they'd seen on cartoon, and
Speaker 1: arranged marriage was just another one of these questions I'd
Speaker 1: have to feel, except this one actually bothered me more
Speaker 1: because this time I'd have to admit that, yes, my
Speaker 1: parents did have an arranged marriage, and then I'd have
Speaker 1: to explain that the thing is, everyone assumed my mom
Speaker 1: and dad were like forcibly, paired off when they were
Speaker 1: nine years old and then sent away to work and
Speaker 1: have kids, and that isn't true. It's like my parents'
Speaker 1: situation was a little more like pride and prejudice, Like
Speaker 1: you come from a good family, your parents want you
Speaker 1: to marry into another good family, So they set you up.
Speaker 1: They make introductions to certain people, and if you like
Speaker 1: each other, they kind of fast track the marriage, or
Speaker 1: they make more introductions. But since this was already super
Speaker 1: hard to explain, I just left out the part of astrology,
Speaker 1: which also plays a big role in the whole arranged
Speaker 1: marriage thing. It was like, I don't know, just too
Speaker 1: difficult or embarrassing something. After all, it's a weird thing
Speaker 1: to have to admit you only exist because of astrology.
Speaker 1: But I'll let my mom explain. Tell me about how
Speaker 1: your marriage was arranged.
Speaker 7: Oh that's funny, okay. Umish's aunt Shardaka, she came to
Speaker 7: see Amma because she'd heard that, you know, I was available.
Speaker 1: I guess this story starts, of course, with two families
Speaker 1: dusting off their kid's horoscopes and heading them off to
Speaker 1: a trusted astrologer, not some low level quack.
Speaker 7: So they matched it and it mashed perfectly.
Speaker 1: The traditional Indian matching system is way more complicated than
Speaker 1: just saying is you a scorpio? A proper celestial marriage
Speaker 1: is supposed to be a union of souls, so the
Speaker 1: astrologers inspect all the vagaries of your chart and pressure
Speaker 1: test everything like your personalities, your feelings about class and status,
Speaker 1: even how a couple health will be affected by one another.
Speaker 1: It's all on the scale of thirty six points, and
Speaker 1: any match under eighteen points shouldn't be considered, But anything
Speaker 1: over thirty two, that's something you want to lock down immediately.
Speaker 7: My patents want to make sure that the man and
Speaker 7: married did not ye let me, she asked the astrology,
Speaker 7: you know, how is his nature? So the Strolgia todama
Speaker 7: that Umish was a gentle creature, you know, never lost
Speaker 7: his temper.
Speaker 1: So this part is one hundred percent crue. I've only
Speaker 1: ever heard my dad yell a handful of times, and
Speaker 1: most of that was when our dog Lupini would just
Speaker 1: race out of the house and he would run after
Speaker 1: her with this like slice of Kraft singles cheese, just
Speaker 1: waving it to try to tempt her back, and it
Speaker 1: always worked because she was super greedy.
Speaker 7: But one fault he'd have is never come on time
Speaker 7: to the table to have dinner. And we thought it
Speaker 7: was a big joke, and that came true if we
Speaker 7: couldn't believe that estrology could be that powerful to tell
Speaker 7: a quok like that.
Speaker 1: Wasn't there something else with the mother in law?
Speaker 7: The mother law. Yes, they said that I would be
Speaker 7: best for a boy that did not have a mother.
Speaker 7: I really don't know. They said it was something to
Speaker 7: do with the stars, and if I had a mother
Speaker 7: in lot, it wouldn't go back so here Umish had
Speaker 7: lost his mother when he was under a year. I
Speaker 7: think we just about a year, so it was perfect.
Speaker 1: This is something I think about a lot, how astrology
Speaker 1: accounts for everything. My dad had an ayah or a nanny,
Speaker 1: but he never had a mother. His life was a
Speaker 1: series of hostels and boarding schools, sometimes in cities hundreds
Speaker 1: of miles from his home. It makes me sad to
Speaker 1: think about. But if his mom had survived, my parents
Speaker 1: would never have been together. Astrology would have made sure
Speaker 1: of that. Anyway, back to my mom, even though my
Speaker 1: grandmom was working really hard to set her up, was
Speaker 1: not keen to get married.
Speaker 7: I wasn't ready. I was still studying and I was
Speaker 7: in my final year for Masters studying linguistics. I didn't
Speaker 7: want to give that up and didn't want to get
Speaker 7: married that fast. Yeah, so I felt like a Josico.
Speaker 7: I wasn't happy and things were really moving faster than
Speaker 7: I ever expected. So I said, I'm going to.
Speaker 1: Follow this, so just to get the picture. A typical
Speaker 1: woman hoping for a match would be waiting, sitting by
Speaker 1: her parents, dressed in a sorry or something traditional, like
Speaker 1: making a big show of what a quiet and obedient
Speaker 1: wife they could be. And instead I had.
Speaker 7: A miniskirton and I had lambretta.
Speaker 1: I wrote that and came, oh, and she's also late,
Speaker 1: like my mom is the most punctual person I know.
Speaker 1: She gets at the airport three hours ahead of time,
Speaker 1: and that since I was a kid, so she's clearly
Speaker 1: trying to tank this thing.
Speaker 7: And my hair I'd let it lose and curly wasn't done.
Speaker 7: But instead, you know, Mishusana said, oh, that's no problem.
Speaker 7: We love more than girls.
Speaker 1: What type of woman do you think Amma was expecting
Speaker 1: to present.
Speaker 7: She wanted them to know that I was absolutely sensitive
Speaker 7: and very loving, very kind and gentle with everyone, and
Speaker 7: animal lover.
Speaker 1: But my Grandmam was also incredibly honest, so she was
Speaker 1: sure to tell my dad's family this.
Speaker 7: I had no interest in cooking.
Speaker 1: Anyway, despite my mom's lack of interest in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and her dramatic attempt to topple this whole affair, she
Speaker 1: somehow still won my dad's family over.
Speaker 7: So Ama said, here's the deal. Let him write to you.
Speaker 7: If you don't like him, it's fine.
Speaker 1: Here was a charming writer.
Speaker 7: He was a charming writer.
Speaker 1: So they wrote letters back and forth for a year,
Speaker 1: and when they finally met in person, you.
Speaker 7: Know, he looked so vulnerable that I said, oh, this
Speaker 7: is great. I can handle him.
Speaker 1: My parents don't have a perfect marriage, but there are
Speaker 1: lots of wonderful bits things that make me think those
Speaker 1: thirty two points mean something Like once when they were young,
Speaker 1: they visited Paris and they went to dinner at this
Speaker 1: fancy restaurant with a ballroom, and then orchestra started playing
Speaker 1: and no one was dancing crickets. So my dad just
Speaker 1: whisked my mom onto the dance floor, and then slowly
Speaker 1: everyone in the place joins in. And when my parents
Speaker 1: went back to their table, the band leader had actually
Speaker 1: sent them this gorgeous bottle of brandy to say thank
Speaker 1: you for livening the place up and forgetting everyone dancing.
Speaker 1: I mean, if astrology can promise you those sorts of
Speaker 1: scenes like who wouldn't listen. Of course, astrology has done
Speaker 1: damage in the family too. Here's my mom telling me
Speaker 1: about an arranged marriage gone wrong.
Speaker 7: My cousin Nana. The girl that they looked for the
Speaker 7: horoscope matched with him.
Speaker 1: Who's your cousin, Nana.
Speaker 7: Nana from Manglo, Nal So there was a danger of
Speaker 7: his brother dying if the girl married None.
Speaker 1: No, the astrologers have predicted that if the couple went
Speaker 1: through with the marriage, even though their horoscopes matched, it
Speaker 1: could lead to Nanu's brother's death. I mean, who wants
Speaker 1: that on their hands, even if it's putting your chances
Speaker 1: for love at risk.
Speaker 7: So to this day, he stood a bachelor.
Speaker 1: Really, Oh wow, what do you think about that?
Speaker 7: It's a shame. Yeah, they could have found other girls,
Speaker 7: but he just was dejected. He said, normal girls, normal horoscopes.
Speaker 1: That's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: It is really is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: After chatting with my mom, two things occurred to me. First,
Speaker 1: the chasm between the way Americans and Indians used astrology
Speaker 1: that only felt wider, Like no app was going to
Speaker 1: tell you to quit your NBA to marry some guy
Speaker 1: in America or to break it off with this girl
Speaker 1: because it could bring bad luck or death to another
Speaker 1: family member, like the starkness of the way Indian astrology
Speaker 1: can be used to control lives. It felt so dark
Speaker 1: but also pretty intriguing, like it only made me want
Speaker 1: to dig in more. And the second thing I remembered
Speaker 1: is this piece of advice AJ gave me about really
Speaker 1: embracing the show.
Speaker 4: I think you got to go all in. So you've
Speaker 4: got to hire an astrologer to help you with the show.
Speaker 4: Let's figure out when you should start. When should the
Speaker 4: air date be. Who should you hire to help you?
Speaker 4: Should it be a Virgo or a Capricorn? Like, go
Speaker 4: for it, because that's one way to test it to
Speaker 4: see does it work for you.
Speaker 1: So I decided to find an Indian astrologer and solve
Speaker 1: both problems. I could lean into my Indian side and
Speaker 1: also have some fun with it. But what I didn't
Speaker 1: know was that that visit was going to change my life.
Speaker 1: Chapter five, We go to Queens. On April ninth, I
Speaker 1: headed to Queen's to be an astrologer. He's someone my
Speaker 1: friend and showrunner for the show, Mary recommended that I
Speaker 1: reach out to, and coincidentally, he happened to be an
Speaker 1: astrologer that my cousin Aditya had used hey.
Speaker 6: Hey, how did you pay? Ah?
Speaker 1: That is another rational type. He's kind of this white
Speaker 1: shoe lawyer. Master's from Cambridge, and he used this astrologer
Speaker 1: in a difficult time and apparently the predictions had proven accurate.
Speaker 1: So I've actually wanted to see him again. So I
Speaker 1: took a train to Jackson Heights to meet doctor Rakish
Speaker 1: Kamar and we entered his white wood frame office. From
Speaker 1: the outside, it's kind of nondescripts like this row house,
Speaker 1: but when you open the door, you immediately sense these
Speaker 1: temple like vibes. So I took off my shoes at
Speaker 1: the entrance, walked through a fog of sweet sandalwood, and
Speaker 1: there were these massive photos of his guru on the wall.
Speaker 1: And then I turned into this tiny room with a
Speaker 1: wooden desk and it had a giant stack of books
Speaker 1: on it with a little black laptop on top. Looking around,
Speaker 1: I realized how fun this is. I'm here on this
Speaker 1: field trip with my cousin, this astrology adventure, and I'm
Speaker 1: so ready to hear some ridiculous things and enjoy this experience.
Speaker 1: Doctor Kamar very sweetly welcomes me in. He closes his
Speaker 1: emails and then, using the information I'd sent him a
Speaker 1: few days before, he pulls up my chart and turns
Speaker 1: on his recorder. So I'm just.
Speaker 6: Looking at it. Charged me first nineteen seventy nine, twelve
Speaker 6: go four in the afternoon, Summit, New Jersey. You were
Speaker 6: born on a Tuesday. You have the sign cancerizing this.
Speaker 1: I've got to say, I was a little surprised by
Speaker 1: how quickly doctor Kumar dives in. It seems like he's
Speaker 1: just staring at a bunch of numbers on his screen,
Speaker 1: but he's interpreting them, kind of like Neo from the Matrix,
Speaker 1: And I'm curious to hear my reading. But what I
Speaker 1: really want to do is ask doctor Kamar about the show.
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be fun if there were these auspicious
Speaker 1: dates for my podcast, or if you could predict something
Speaker 1: about how many people would listen. But first he had
Speaker 1: some questions for me.
Speaker 6: So Ha's work been since January twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: That's when I decided to quit my job.
Speaker 6: Okay, so either you would have quick give a what
Speaker 6: the job would have quit you one of the things
Speaker 6: because the time the such because it impacts your converch
Speaker 6: through your work. Can you. It's so ironic. You come
Speaker 6: here today two days from now, April thirteenth onwards. Then
Speaker 6: after a new chapter of your life begins, another beginning
Speaker 6: of your life, which will be very good.
Speaker 1: This is what I came for. I write down April
Speaker 1: thirteenth on my notebook and I circle it big. Four
Speaker 1: days from now. That's the date I'm going to get
Speaker 1: started on my show. Doctor Kamara continues with more work
Speaker 1: related things. He says foreign travelers in the cards, which
Speaker 1: is super exciting, and that I should wear an emerald
Speaker 1: to improve my communication skills, which is funny. I make
Speaker 1: a note to do an episode on gems and Veda
Speaker 1: castrology down the line. But the best part is that
Speaker 1: doctor Kamar seems to think this whole podcast will go
Speaker 1: really well, so.
Speaker 6: It's very profound. So you'll make it begin life. You'll
Speaker 6: be very successful in everything, because then it's shoulda.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about all this tape, getting a start
Speaker 1: date for the show, the talk of gems, this prediction
Speaker 1: that everything might go well. That I'm caught off guard
Speaker 1: by Doctor Kamar's next question, which comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 6: Tell me something about your father, like what he did
Speaker 6: for work or still does.
Speaker 1: He's a chemical engineer.
Speaker 3: Okay, he's retired.
Speaker 1: He's ill right now. Listening back, I don't know why
Speaker 1: I mentioned my dad was ill. Doctor Kamar hadn't asked,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's because I was trying to participate fully,
Speaker 1: like I thought I should let him know. Years ago
Speaker 1: my dad was diagnosed with cancer, but he actually sailed
Speaker 1: through that treatment and he's been cancer free for a
Speaker 1: while now. But recently he broke a rip reaching for something,
Speaker 1: which was odd, and then he also had this slight
Speaker 1: boost and some liver counts which his doctor told him
Speaker 1: not to worry about.
Speaker 6: Because that's why I asked again. From the time it
Speaker 6: started a couple of years back till now, a situation
Speaker 6: doesn't look good for father. There is risk to father.
Speaker 1: This thing about my dad. It was a throwaway line
Speaker 1: in the middle of an hour and a half interview.
Speaker 1: I don't even know how closely I was listening. By
Speaker 1: the time we hit stop on the recorder, I was thrilled.
Speaker 1: I had over an hour of material and I was
Speaker 1: cutting tape in my head as I was asking questions,
Speaker 1: and I felt good. I thanked doctor Kamar for his time,
Speaker 1: and I let him run off to feed his mother lunch,
Speaker 1: which he does every day, and my cousin and I
Speaker 1: walked off to get fresh dosas in Italy's, one of
Speaker 1: the many canteens that dot this area of Jackson heights'come too.
Speaker 1: I turned back to thank you to you, and then
Speaker 1: twenty minutes into chatting and laughing and debating what's real
Speaker 1: about astrology and what isn't and how can you even
Speaker 1: tell right? I received this email from my dad. It read,
Speaker 1: we just received the results of the MRCP testing. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the news is not as good as it could be.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to doctor Thomas and doctor Shakour and let
Speaker 1: you know as soon as we can. Study result diffuse
Speaker 1: metastatic disease throughout the liver and bones from unknown primary
Speaker 1: to cancer. I had metastasized through my dad's liver and bones.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it means, but I've forgotten about astrology.
Speaker 1: I don't care about emeralds or whether any of this
Speaker 1: feels embarrassing anymore. My stomach drops. I can't finish my child.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to write, so I just tap out.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Dad. I'll call you back in a
Speaker 1: bit and all I'm thinking now is how fast can
Speaker 1: I get to Atlanta? Next week? On Skyline Drive, we
Speaker 1: take a train to Bay Ridge, meet a therapist who
Speaker 1: secretly uses astrology behind your client's backs, and hang out
Speaker 1: with a seventy four year old who just wants to
Speaker 1: know am I ever going to have sex with somebody again?
Speaker 1: And we use astrology to get her an answer. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. I have so many people
Speaker 1: to thank. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and
Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast. The show is hosted and written by Me
Speaker 1: Mungish particular with a ton of help, like so much
Speaker 1: help from these wonderful people. Mary Philip Sandy is our
Speaker 1: cat loving supervising producer. Miitra Bunshahi produced this whole thing
Speaker 1: despite my constantly getting in the way. Mark Lotto is
Speaker 1: our incredible story editor who even suffered a trip to
Speaker 1: India with me. This episode was mixed by my pal
Speaker 1: at Soundboard with scoring from Botany. The song Yola Mango
Speaker 1: is my absolute favorite. The insane music in between is
Speaker 1: courtesy of Azadi Records, Himanshusuri and Peter Matthew Bauer. If
Speaker 1: you want to hear more, we made you a mixtape
Speaker 1: just check out the show notes. Additional production and research
Speaker 1: support from the wonderful Anna Rubinova through Shivrau, Lucas, Riley,
Speaker 1: Bethan Mcalouzo, Editia bus Thrower, and my wonderful wife Lizzie Jacobs.
Speaker 1: There's also my superstar Aunt Summon, the Woman Buckshi and
Speaker 1: my cousin Argent Bukshi, who helped me out of a
Speaker 1: giant pinch abroad. The show is executive produced from I
Speaker 1: Harp by my good pals Nikki Etour and Katrina Norvel.
Speaker 1: This show would not have happened without the support of
Speaker 1: my friends at Kaleidoscope, starting with my good pal Ozwolishan,
Speaker 1: who believed in this show. He's also my partner at Kaleidoscope.
Speaker 1: Also Kate Osborne for her spot on notes, Costas Linos
Speaker 1: for his encouragement, and Fahi Mei Shori for her delightful suggestions.
Speaker 1: I also want to give a little special thanks to
Speaker 1: all the kiddos who bore with us through this production,
Speaker 1: Henry Ruby, Julian Grendel, Lou and little Enzo Etour, all
Speaker 1: my friends at iHeart, including Bob Connell, Will Carrie, Nathan Jason, Jerry,
Speaker 1: my New York and Atlanta, Cruz. There are too many
Speaker 1: to name. Also Shantan Sarub, my family in India, my
Speaker 1: family in the States, my friend Noel Brown who read
Speaker 1: this episode's warning check out his show's ridiculous history and
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. And just one
Speaker 1: last thank you to my Amma and my dad, Zalita
Speaker 1: and Mamige Artigudur, who I thank my lucky stars for
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 7: Doom Doom Dom, Doom Doom Domm, Doom Doom Dom, Doom
Speaker 7: Doom Dom,