1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: for tuning in. We're gonna do a little bit of 4 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: an automobile. Well, yeah, that was my my crash car 5 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: crash mouth sound. Did you like it? Yeah? I liked it? Also, 6 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: it was it was like a test of a car 7 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: crash maybe right perhaps? Yeah, I'm no dummy, and neither 8 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: are any of you. Ben Boland and then the super 9 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: producer Maximus to the maximum, at least not yet, our 10 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: super producer, mister Max Williams. Yes, still stuck around because 11 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: he has egregiously weird taste and friends. You are Noel, 12 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: I am Ben, And today we are talking about crash test. 13 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: We're talking about cars. It's it's nuts, man, cars are 14 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: nol I might be a little more into cars than 15 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: you are. But I love him, dude, and I know 16 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: you love him. You just took a road trip recently. Yeah, 17 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: I like driving him. They get me where I'm gone. 18 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: Oh anyway, so wait, we're not doing the whole episode 19 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: about that Walls. There was this kid wouldn't go to 20 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: school when Yeah, we're not doing that one. We're not 21 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: doing that one, but we I think we got past 22 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: our legal department with that impression, so we should be 23 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: good to go look up the band crash test Dummies epic. 24 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: They are referencing a thing that happens in the real world, 25 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: which is when auto manufacturers, for many years and in 26 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: the current day, when auto manufacturers are trying to full 27 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: proof their products, their cars, they build out human shaped mannequins, right, 28 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: and those are meant to provide invaluable, potentially life saving 29 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: data about what happens if something goes wrong, if a 30 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: car gets into crash. How does the airbag work? What 31 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: about the three point seat belt? How do we save lives? 32 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: That's what they're trying to ask. That's right. And weirdly, this, 33 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: these these things, these life saving creations spawned kind of 34 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: a weird pop cultural moment. Like in the nineties, action figures, 35 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: action figures or the head would pop up like rockham 36 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: sotock'em Robots had a cartoon show. There was I think 37 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: it was the cartoon came first and then the actions 38 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: figures were based around the cartoon like often as the case. 39 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, they were designed. Their heads are they're bald 40 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: and they have these kind of like targety looking things 41 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: on their heads, and what an odd thing. I don't 42 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: think it really lasted very long. That's why I said moment. 43 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: But I had some of those figures and they were 44 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: placed sets he could get where you could like simulate 45 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: the crashes and all and they break apart. That's right. 46 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: I thought it was the coolest part. There was a 47 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: button their arms and legs. Yeah, yeah, so you could 48 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: test your crash as a child. But the thing is, 49 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: we have to understand that for a lot of people, 50 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: a lot of our fellow ridiculous historians in the United States, 51 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: the automobile in the post World War two era represented 52 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: an unprecedented amount of freedom, right, yeah, and I represented 53 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: a death trap of sorts. Before the advent of some 54 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: of these technological vancements at auto safety they were going 55 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: to talk about today. One, there was an active and 56 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: arguably continuing conspiracy on the part of automotive companies and 57 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: people who have money in them to make sure that 58 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: the American public was consumed with the benefits of that mobility. 59 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: And we're not thinking about the consequences of putting just 60 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: anyone behind the wheel if they got a little driver's license, 61 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: automobiles and this is per a great article in the Smithsonian. 62 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: Automobiles placed speed and power in the hands of individuals, 63 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: and as a result, during the dawn of the automobile. 64 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: And I say this as a guy who my first 65 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: show was all about cars. It was called car stuff. 66 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: Everything that floats, fly, swims or drives. Automobiles led to 67 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: a huge like an epidemic we could call it, of 68 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: traffic and injuries. And then to your point, Noel, people 69 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: started asking, well, what about the drivers. How do we 70 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: establish guidelines for the behavior of all these drivers? How 71 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: do we design better automobiles, How do we make better roads? 72 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: How do we get around traffic hazards? And this comes 73 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: to the world of safety measures. And when people started 74 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: talking about safety measures, well they started doing crash tests. 75 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: And we're not talking about the divisive film Crash with 76 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: James Spader, yeah, or the other devisive film Crash that 77 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: won all the Oscars and is now largely considered trash, 78 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: starring Matt Dillon and a bunch of others. Ben I 79 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: just was looking this up because the question popped into 80 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: my head when we're driver's licenses required, And it wasn't 81 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: until nineteen thirty four, and the Model T was invented 82 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: in like nine thirteen or no, nineteen o eight. That's 83 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: a big old gap. So there was a period where 84 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: it was like anybody could just hop into one of 85 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: these things and go to town literally or figuratively. Yeah 86 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: they didn't. I like that. I think you got poetic 87 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: at the end of the sentence. I like that because 88 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, the technology, like any other emergent technology, was 89 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: not super common for a time. These things really were 90 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: called horseless carriages. Today, we're going to talk about how 91 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: auto manufacturers caught onto the idea of putting human shaped 92 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: things into their own vehicles and then wrecking those vehicles 93 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: to see what would happen. So here we go. It's 94 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: the dawn of the twentieth century, right, mass market automobiles 95 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: are a thing. Henry Ford is making a lot of money, 96 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: and he's definitely definitely supportive of the ideals that will 97 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: later launch the Nazi Party in Germany. Just to give 98 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: you a sense of the lay of the land. Yeah, cool, cool, 99 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: Those are like his two things, cars and anti semitism 100 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: and not safety. That was not his third thing. Well, 101 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: he's the type, dude, He's the type to be very opinionated, 102 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: and you couldn't nay say Henry Ford, these are two 103 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: true stories. He did one day say you can have 104 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: any version of my car you want, so long as 105 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: it is painted black. You can have any color car 106 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: you want, so long as it's painted black. And then 107 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: one time his own engineers built a prototype that improved 108 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: upon the Model T and he ripped it apart with 109 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: his bare hands in front of them. Super forward thinking fellow. 110 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: I mean, look, obviously he was a forward thinking fellow. 111 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: But sometimes folks like that can kind of get in 112 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: their own way or their forward thinking like once and 113 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: then they just can't see the forest for the trees 114 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: in terms of like other people's input, and history is 115 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: full of folks like that, and Henry Ford was definitely 116 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: one of them. Ben, I love your point about you 117 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: can only have you can have whatever kind of car 118 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: you want, as long as painted black. It really wasn't 119 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: until much later that choice in automobiles even became a 120 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: thing in terms of it being like a stylistic choice 121 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: like I want a red one, or I want this 122 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: or that or the other. That was a much later 123 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: kind of innovation. Actually, if I can jump in here, 124 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: real quick. We have an Ephederal episode about that. Somewhat 125 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: is our trash episode where it's people realize, oh, if 126 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 1: we sell things in multiple different colors and cars as well. 127 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: In the examples that our casts had and the reason 128 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: why it's like, okay, you sell them a different colors, 129 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: people will buy them more because it's seasonal maybe even right, oh, 130 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: this is the hot new one for this season, and 131 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: that means they become more disposable where you got to 132 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: get the newest and hottest one. And then they started 133 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: making little tweaks to designs that kind of encourage people 134 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: to want to keep up with the Joneses or Smiths 135 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: or whomever, whatever last name do please check out Ephemeral. 136 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a podcast that, in full transparency, 137 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: all of us have participated in. Max and his brother 138 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: Alex are some of the masterminds of that show, and 139 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: I think it's something we're all very very proud of 140 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: for good reason. By the way, and so anyway, here 141 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: we are automobiles. They're faster than horse drawn carriages. They're 142 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: faster than a bicycle. They're also, by the way, I 143 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: should say to the earlier point about Henry Ford, He 144 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: did not invent the automobile. He revolutionized the assembly line, 145 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: and that's he did so much other weird stuff. Check 146 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: out the car Stuff episode about Ford Landia. It's nuts. 147 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: It's like a three part series. Anyway, what I'm saying 148 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: is Max beat me here this guy. Yeah, I mean, 149 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: it's just true of a lot of folks of that stature, 150 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: like Elon Musk likes people to think that he invented 151 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: Tesla's but that is not the case. Nor did he 152 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: invent PayPal, nor did he invent Twitter. But he you know, 153 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: guys like that kind of write the history books to 154 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: a certain degree. So people associate Henry Ford with inventing 155 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: the automobile. And to your point, then that's just not true. Yeah, yeah, 156 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: you raise, It's just not the case, which is not 157 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: to take away from what he did for the automotive 158 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: culture in the United States. Thank god, that was one 159 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: of his two upset. That was the one of his 160 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: two obsessions that caught on. So all the people who 161 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: are watching these safety problems, they say, it really goes 162 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: down to our drivers. How competent are our drivers? Their 163 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: behavior determines whether an automobile is an efficient A to 164 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: B or to zed kind of thing or whether it 165 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: is a menace. And you know, look, these people were 166 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: not calling them dumb. These people were coming from a 167 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: world where one of the fastest ways to get around 168 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: on your own where you're driving would be a horse. 169 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: And if the horse doesn't like the vibe, the horse 170 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: is not going to keep going. The horse is like 171 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: a check and balance thing here. And if you don't 172 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: have that horse, you just have way for it horsepower. 173 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: I will take the womp womp on that max you 174 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: you shall have it to my friend. And horses also, 175 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: last I check don't drink alcohol for fun. So you know, 176 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe there might be others. I'm just saying 177 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: people are fallible. People are inherently I mean not to 178 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: say the horses are like geniuses or anything, but they 179 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: kind of do the one thing and they kind of 180 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: do it well, you know what I mean. And by 181 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: a large they are teetotlers. So know what you're saying 182 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: is that they are a one trick pony, yeah, or 183 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: a one trick mayor or a one trick Philly, whichever 184 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: one you got. But again they do and you know, 185 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: horse technology hasn't really changed. You got your blinders that 186 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: just kind of make them go straight and not get distracted. 187 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: And with things like that you can kind of mitigate 188 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: the horse getting spooked and all of that and that 189 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: stuff short of like a bad tempered horse pretty predictable. 190 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: But people when given that power, oh that power, that 191 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: pedal to the metal, not as predictable. This is also 192 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's a great point to be made about 193 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: how the horses did not necessarily consent to this. Hell no, 194 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: and they were not paid. The thing is there there's 195 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: this vast you could call it a conspiracy. We might 196 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: touch on it later. There's this vast movement amidst automobile 197 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: manufacturers to put the onus of safety and the consequences 198 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: of lack of safety all the individual drivers, not on 199 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: how the cars are designed. Automobile ownership becomes increasingly common 200 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: in the nineteen tens the nineteen twenties, and we begin 201 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: to see this emergent safety advocacy culture. You know, people 202 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: are saying, look, if you're driving a car, you're endangering yourself. 203 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: And I love that point about people who are driving 204 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: inebriated nol. You're also in endangering the rest of the community, 205 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: who is just probably walking around. There's the National Safety 206 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: Council that comes about. Then they're focusing on the human 207 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: factor in automobile accidents. You see the emergence of things 208 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: called safety leagues, and they do pr campaigns. No, i'd 209 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: like you hear cars for kids jingles these days about 210 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: donating your car. Yeah, they're not choice for to cars 211 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: for kids, stuff like that. Yeah, these campaigns took the 212 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: place of that, and they were attempting to make both 213 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: drivers and pedestrians people walking paying more attention in traffic. 214 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: The federal government is throwing money at state and local 215 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: governments to try to get everybody on the same the 216 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: same broad page about traffic laws, law enforcement. You know, 217 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: they were saying, look, if you drive one way in 218 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, you should have relatively similar laws in New 219 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: York City. Right, And to your earlier point about emergent technology, 220 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: which is totally what this is moving at such a 221 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: fast pace. It's a pace that far exceeds the pace 222 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: of government. And it happens every time, you know, with 223 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: regulations like surrounding the Internet, for example, and all of 224 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: that always lags the government response. And we're literally talking 225 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: about a new technology that requires a vast infrastructure overhaul, 226 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, of roads and bridges and all of these 227 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: things that did not necessarily need to be a certain way. 228 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: With just horses, you know, you could have these dirt 229 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: roads and all of that stuff, and you know, narrow 230 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: lanes and probably wouldn't end up with with massive numbers 231 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: of fatalities. But once cars get introduced, that stuff isn't 232 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: gonna fly anymore. Yes, it's not. It's gonna it's gonna drive. 233 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: So z z zip stops up. We actually like improv 234 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: here aspers. Oh sorry, my cat's knocking some stuff over. 235 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: Uh and is doctor excuse me, excuse me? Document? Yeah, 236 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: doctor Vakman also apparently a shareholder in some of these 237 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: places we're about to talk smack about. So keep it 238 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: all in nex So. You see things where manufacturers of 239 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: autos are attempting to put the blame on anybody but 240 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: themselves for little bit. And one of those is some 241 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: one instance of that is something Noel, you and I 242 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: talked about, which is the idea of jaywalking. I think 243 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: we mentioned this on stuff they don't want, you know, 244 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: I definitely did on a car stuff. But what is jaywalking? Noel? 245 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: H Well, I mean it's it's it's essentially crossing the 246 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: street illegally. That's what it's become. But it really more 247 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: referred to kind of just the culture of walking in general, 248 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: of pedestrians, and it was sort of like a term 249 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: of abuse. And the idea was to malign the humble 250 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: pedestrian in favor of getting them out of the way 251 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: of automobiles and moving more towards a highway and byway 252 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: based system of travel. Bro you nailed it, absolutely, one 253 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: hundred percent. Just so the idea there was to put 254 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: the blame on people who are, as you said, just walking. 255 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: And and Max, who is our research associate for today's episode, 256 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: Max came with the facts. Yeah, we're gonna do it 257 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: right now. Okay, aw Saxon Moose with the facts and Moose, 258 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: so Max found this this great comment, this great observation 259 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: that Americans, people in the United States, were slow to 260 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: understand the importance of redesigning the automobile itself. Stopped blaming 261 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: the victim, stopped blaming that pedestrian, try to make better cars. 262 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: And by the late nineteen twenties manufacturers finally admitted, oh, 263 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: maybe we could build a better car. And they they said, oh, okay, 264 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: let's make windshields that don't shatter as dangerously as quickly. 265 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: Let's maybe put brakes on all the wheels instead of 266 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: just like two, and you know, maybe we can build better, 267 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: better systems all around. And then they said, oh, also 268 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: we can sell it. We'll be selling the safer cars. 269 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: And they still do that to this day. You know, 270 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: stats like that about you know, rollover rates and whatever 271 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: what have you. And certain cars like Jeeps for example, 272 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: our land Rovers do kind of get a bad rap 273 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: for some of that safety stuff because they do roll 274 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: over more easily. But yeah, I mean, safety even now 275 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: is a big thing for family cars. You're dreaded Honda 276 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: Odyssey for example, very safe, you know, for those inside, 277 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: not necessarily for the enemies of Honda odyssees. I know what, Okay, 278 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: I'll play your Ranger games. Isn't that the car that 279 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: has been fine? I do not care for them. Yeah, okay, 280 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: do you don't have a Honda Hodyssey? Right? No you 281 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: do not. No, it's okay, you're you're good. Oh geez, sorry, 282 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: just my heart just jumped in my chest. I don't 283 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: know how much of that pause. We're kinda we're gonna 284 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: ed it out. But but yeah, yeah, as Noel knows well, 285 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: I feel the way about Honda odyssees that you feel 286 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: about birds. Yeah, I respect their right to exist. I 287 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: should say whatever far beyond I'm just laught. Birds aren't real, man, 288 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: and on Honda Odyssey's unfortunately, are very real, painfully real. 289 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: They'll find you. Yeah. Anyway, so far before the Honda Odyssey, 290 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: far before the Honda company gets into manufacturing troublesome mini vans, 291 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: we see that automakers wanted future customers to know that 292 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: their cars were safe, and they said, look, we're improving 293 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: roads where licensing drivers were regulating traffic. That's really what's 294 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: going to stop accidents from happening. We're putting in seat belts. 295 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: There's a guy named Neil's Bullet no relation. His last 296 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: name is spelled b O h l I N who 297 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: probably saved more than one billion lives with his Yeah, 298 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: with his seat belt innovation. So that's a great stat 299 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: have under your belt there yea belt. Also that you're 300 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: on fire today. So they added these things or they 301 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: knew they would be around, but for a lot of 302 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: the time these weren't in your typical mass market cars. Instead, 303 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: they decided they, being the auto manufacturers, they decided to 304 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: throw bodies at the problems. And they started their old bodies, right, 305 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: and they dead bodies for a while. Or I remembered 306 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: that from a past conversation and probably from that car 307 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: stuff episode. But I'm like, is that true? That is macaw? 308 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, man, oh true, it gets you. You got it, man, 309 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's get there. Let's take the long way, 310 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, let's take the surface street rather than the interstate. 311 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: The first crash test were done on unoccupied vehicles. How 312 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: did that even work? Yeah, it seems like that would 313 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: favor the manufacturer more than the consumer maybe you know 314 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: what I mean, like making them more durable or something. 315 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: But actually they wouldn't want them to be more durable 316 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: with they they want people to buy new ones. But yeah, 317 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm a little perplexed as to how they thought this 318 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: was a great idea and how they would measure success, 319 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, in these tests. Yeah, and it kind of 320 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: build off that. I know. One of the safety features 321 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: they really marketed early on was all steel frames, because 322 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: like when like test like this and all still frame 323 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: got in an accident, it'd be like, oh, look there's 324 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: no damage there. But the problem with those was it 325 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: basically just like it was like putting humans into it 326 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: like a shaker, just shaking them up, and so like, 327 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: yeah to pure portnel, I don't I don't see how 328 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: this would do anything testing them. You just see, Oh 329 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: the car can survive that impact, but no idea on 330 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: how the people inside would do. Yeah, And they seem 331 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: to have realized that relatively quickly. Uh, and then they 332 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: pivoted right. Yeah. In their in their early days, auto 333 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: manufacturers would conduct crash testing by literally having some guy 334 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: sit in the driver's seat, shotgun the thing, and then 335 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: jump out of the moving car, you know, and do 336 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: a very cool, like evil knevil stunt. They roll away 337 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: right before it hit. Well, I hope when that that 338 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: method stopped being the thing that that person at least 339 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: got good work as a stunt driver in them into 340 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: movies quite possibly. And you know, that's a great story 341 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: for a future episode if we can find them. Let 342 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: us know. Ridiculous historians eventually though, they say, look, we 343 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: need a body in the car. We need the bodies 344 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: to hit the wall. So they started using in the 345 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: floor perhaps right. They used primates, they used bears, and yeah, 346 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: it's just it's it's it's horrible. I mean, these weren't alive, 347 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: were they? These Barren steambarns. It's like the worst Barren 348 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: Steam Bears book or bearn Stain Bears book. Ever, I 349 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: think the bears were alive. Man. They also used pigs. 350 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: How they wrangle them? Do they like sedate them or something? 351 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: I would imagine? So bears are pretty clever. Yeah, I'll 352 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: always be getting those picnic baskets, you know, um And 353 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, to to that point, Ben primates pigs, bears 354 00:23:53,600 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: similar organ matrix, let's just say, layout to the human form. Yeah, 355 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: the thoracic and abdominal organ structure, and pigs especially similar 356 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: to humans. So while they were testing on these living creatures, 357 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: they said, all right, let's be honest, it's not bears 358 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: driving these cars. Not to be terrifying. Can you imagine bears, 359 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: cocaine bears perhaps driving around willy nilly and automobiles and 360 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: can you imagine one driving a Honda Odyssey. That's the 361 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: still I can't. Oh, I just spooked myself. I'm telling you, 362 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: who can leave this whole positive? I love it. It's 363 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: triggering for you that who hurt you Ben who I 364 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: think I've heard the story. It's been a long time. 365 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: But the Honda Odyssey. Yeah, they're out there even now. 366 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: One may be heading towards you. So the thing is 367 00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: they realized quickly, Okay, using live mammals is all right, 368 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: but it's not getting us all the way there. We 369 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: need a better solution. So in the nineteen forties, the 370 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: history of crash test dummies begins. It comes from Uncle Sam, 371 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: it comes from the Air Force. They were testing these 372 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: mannequins in ejection seats. We do not know whether they 373 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: were shooting off bears in ejection seats first, but i'd 374 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: be a story. It'd be a story, good origin for 375 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: cocaine bear. The first dummy so far as we know, 376 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: was created by Sierra Engineering Company and Alderson Research Laboratories, 377 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: named after the founder, Sam Alderson, and they gave their 378 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: first dummy a name Sierra Sam. Ah Yes, yes, Sam, 379 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: sounds like a real cow poke. In nineteen sixty eight, 380 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: Alderson debuted that design in like a public kind of display, 381 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: right UM is specifically you know of automotive crash testing UM. 382 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: It was known as the the VIP, which does not 383 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: stand for a very important person in this case stands 384 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: for vehicular impact personnel. Now VIP was around as an 385 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: acronym and initialism by about nineteen thirty three. It wasn't 386 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: common until after World War Two, but just so everybody knows, 387 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: they were having a bit of a nod and a 388 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: wink there at the idea of VIP. Yeah, and now 389 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: we could there's another steel cage involved here, and this 390 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: is to simulate the human rib cage. They had a 391 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: steel rib cage articulated joints like you might see in 392 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: like a puppet, you know, um, like a even like 393 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: a stop motion puppet. Or they have those armatures, those 394 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: metal armatures that can be you know, flexed and all 395 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: of that stuff, uh, speaking of flexing, a flexible neck 396 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: and other cavities that were design trying to hold measurement tools. Yeah. 397 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: The idea was, according to the American Physical Society, that 398 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: one could mimic the acceleration and weight distribution of what 399 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: they considered to be an average male. They later expanded 400 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: and they said, well what about bigger people? You know, 401 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: what about people who have a larger height or a 402 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: little more weight to them. And then they said at 403 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: some point, oh, yeah, what about women very late in 404 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: the game. Women, what are those? Said the engineer, exactly exactly. 405 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: And up until the seventies, these crash test dummies were 406 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: built and designed by third party, non governmental companies, and 407 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: that all kind of took a turn when General Motors 408 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,239 Speaker 1: decided that they wanted to internalize these processes because they 409 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: didn't think the folks that we're building these were doing 410 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: a good enough job, which is kind of cool because 411 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: they were taking it upon themselves too to make improvements 412 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: to these processes, presumably to increase their safety. But again, 413 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: safety also is now a selling point, so it's not 414 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: all benevolent here, you know, it's like they that becomes 415 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: a competitive edge if you have the safest car, because 416 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: this is in the era of like consumer reports and 417 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: you know a lot of that kind of stuff where 418 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: people are getting a little wiser to these sorts of things, 419 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, and and insist on safety for their families 420 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: things like that. And by the way, a lot of 421 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: this is coming to us from the history of crash 422 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: test dummies over AAA by Andrew Sheldon, and this is 423 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: pretty recent. This came out about a year ago. Is 424 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: that would that be triple A that like the car club. Okay, yeah, 425 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: if everybody's typing it out though, three a's uh. The 426 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: second A leads you to the other problem we were 427 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, which is alcoholism and cars. So the 428 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: Hybrid two comes out in nineteen seventy two, and this 429 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: is an improvement, right, It's the same thing, but a 430 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: little bit better, a little more nuanced understanding of human anatomy. 431 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: It also provides consistent crash results. Mainly, they want to 432 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: test seat belts. They want to figure out how we 433 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: can understand what happens to the head, the neck, the 434 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: limbs across all, you know, sort of human shapes. So 435 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: they're trying to be inclusive of different sizes, different genders, 436 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: different ages and so on. You know, obviously a six 437 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: foot three in eighty seven year old dude is not 438 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: going to react to the crash the same way that 439 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: I don't know a six year old girl would. Well, 440 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, back to the crash test dummies. 441 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: Cartoon and action figures played into that because they were 442 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: like kid ones and like old lady, you know, they're 443 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: all the different ones, and that gave them their kind 444 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: of cast of characters. So that followed from this change 445 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: this diversification in the actual crash test dummies themselves for sure, 446 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: and GM has a third hybrid anniverse to creativity. They 447 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: call it the Hybrid three, and it has forty one 448 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: separate data channels. The Hybrid two, by way of contrast, 449 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: had about eight, so researchers could measure precise injuries to 450 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: different parts different week points in the human body. And 451 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: originally the Hybrid three was supposed to impersonate an average male. 452 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: In the eighties, they started including what they called large 453 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: males and small female dummies. Nineteen eighty four they introduce 454 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: child models, little tiny like Hawaii versions of crash test dummies. 455 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: But as we have been teasing for most of this episode, 456 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: eventually they decided to go past the imitations and stick 457 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: with some original bodies for testing. Like I said, I 458 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: kind of thought that maybe I had made that up 459 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: in my sick imagination, but not the case. They get 460 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: to a point where they're like, like you said, well, 461 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: nothing's really better than the real thing, kind of like 462 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: the way they made you like dissect fetle pigs and 463 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: cats in high school despite any misgivings. Actually, you could 464 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: probably have opted out of that. I bet if you 465 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: got a note or if it was like for religious 466 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: reasons perhaps, but maybe nowadays nowadays, but back then it 467 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: was you get chastised. The website Ethics Unwrapped, which is 468 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: a service from the University of Texas's Macombs School of Business, 469 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: actually has a case study on this, uh and it's 470 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: entitled Cadavers in Car Safety Research, And here's a little 471 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: little snippet. In nineteen ninety three was widely disclosed that 472 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: research engineers at Heidelberg University in Germany had used two 473 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: hundred adult and child cadavers in simulated car tests. The 474 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: researchers argued that the use of human cadavers was necessary 475 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: to study the actual effects of these crashes on the body. 476 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: They insisted that the research would save lives because it 477 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: would help engineers design safer cars. And as we know, 478 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, Germans are known for their engineering prowess and 479 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: they're you know, manufacturing, and German cars are some of 480 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the best out there. So I would argue they probably 481 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: were right. But it's a really bad pr look, isn't it. 482 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: I think? Was it? Was? It like a big kerfuffle 483 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was not a good look. 484 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: I mean, using cadavers in this way. It wasn't something 485 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: they made out out a whole cloth. It's not a 486 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: new thing, and it's still not gone completely since the 487 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, back when researchers at Wayne State University were 488 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: throwing bodies down elevator shafts. Every part of a car 489 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: touching on safety benefited in some way from testing with cadavers. 490 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: We see that Ford, for instance, everybody knows Ford, and 491 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: they are good cars. Look, I dunked on Henry Ford. 492 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: I have dunked on Henry Ford for many years. I 493 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: drive a Ford Escape right now and it's a pretty 494 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: good car. Well, I got a good deal whatever, fair enough, 495 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: fair enough. So this company was promoting what they called 496 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: their inflatable rear seat belts in the twenty eleven Explorer, 497 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: and the Explorer for anybody playing along at home, is 498 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: nicer than the Escape. I'm that cheap. So Ford says, 499 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: this gives you five times the protection of the conventional 500 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: seat belt. But if you look at their promo and 501 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: their pr and stuff, you'll see that they don't really 502 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: like to publicize the fact that dead bodies were used 503 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 1: in the development of that seat belt. Yeah, no, it's 504 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: it's definitely not something you come right out and at advertise. 505 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: But here here's the perspective from pre Prasade as a 506 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 1: former chief safety researcher at Ford on this very subject, saying, 507 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: it's still very important. Even though we have very good 508 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,399 Speaker 1: math modeling of dummies, human modeling hasn't reached that state yet, 509 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: meaning there's still not the modeling is still inferior to 510 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: using the cadavers. Yeah, there's not a way yet to 511 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: run moulation. I get that, that makes sense. So now, 512 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: of course this is something that publicly, at the very 513 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 1: least automakers kind of want to stay away from because 514 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: it is such a pr nightmare. A Swedish researcher in 515 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight told the Express in newspaper that 516 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: General Motors and Saab we're using cadavers in research, and 517 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: the companies denied it. Yeah, and it seems like they're 518 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: legit there because they don't have the resources, the infrastructure 519 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,399 Speaker 1: that you would need to conduct a successful crash test 520 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: with a cadaver. But you know who does a lot 521 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: of your favorite universities, the old NHTSA, the National Highway 522 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: Traffic Safety Administration. Right now, as you are hearing this 523 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: if you listen. In the United States, they are funding 524 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: multiple cadaver test per year and some of those schools 525 00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: also get funding from automakers. Yeah, and this kind of 526 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: makes me think of like the red market kind of 527 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: stuff that we've talked about, and stuff they don't want 528 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: you to know, our body brokers, you know, and all 529 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: of that. That's much more of us stuff they don't 530 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: want you to know. Topic that we've covered in various iterations. 531 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: But it's like, who are these bodies? Right? Unclaimed John 532 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: or Jane? Does is just the term it's used for, 533 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, unidentified bodies that are found? Is that is 534 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: that right? Or people that are maybe donated their bodies 535 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: to science. People who donate their bodies to science and 536 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: don't have a clear understanding of how that body would 537 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: be used. You might think it's being used in cancer 538 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: research or something like that, not knowing that it is 539 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: just stuffed into a Honda Odyssey and driven into wall. Oh. 540 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: The humanity, the humanity of it all gotta feel not 541 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: great by the way, too, for whoever has to clean 542 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: these experiments up? True, and also we have to ask, 543 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: is there a greater good argument if you are if 544 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: you are donating your body to science and your body 545 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: provides data that helps build a better car that helps 546 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: save other people's lives, is that not a noble thing? 547 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: I mean. A spokesman for Ford, a guy named West Shorewood, 548 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: said that most companies are moving toward digital modeling if 549 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: they can, because it's way way more cost effective to 550 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: do a bunch of computer simulations than it is to 551 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: do one test with a human corpse. Yeah, and I 552 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: think a lot of the people that maybe have objections, Well, 553 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: first of all, there is the we talked about this 554 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: on the Stuff That I Want you to Know episodes. 555 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: You can't tick a box and say I want my 556 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: body used for this, but not this, this, but not that, 557 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, So there should be a bit of a 558 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: eyes wide open thing when you're deciding to do that 559 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: in the first place, because you can't pick and choose, 560 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: so it's kind of fair game. And really, in this situation, 561 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: nothing truly nefarious is happening, right, It's it's it's not 562 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,919 Speaker 1: like they're getting these illegally or they're, you know, right, 563 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: something nasty behind the scenes. But I think the people 564 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: that object to stuff like this is probably on religious 565 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: grounds where It's like this is in some way, you know, unclean, 566 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, to use the human vessel, the human temple 567 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: in these ways. I mean, what's next, Let's be as 568 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: cold as these folks. What's next? Do you check the 569 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: box about where your body goes? And then you check 570 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: the car you want to be tested in? Like I'm 571 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: okay with being used. It would my body be used 572 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: in crash test, but it can only be in the 573 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: newest Maserati, Right, yeah, yeah, exactly, these hips shall no 574 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: Honda Odyssey touch right right? Still put me still, put 575 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: me in anything other than a Porsche, etc. There's good 576 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: news though. Albert King, who is a professor at Wayne State, 577 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: has been working in cadaver research since nineteen sixty six 578 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: and said the school had fallen off with their testing 579 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: in recent years. They used to do like one cadaver 580 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: a month, and at the time of his interview is 581 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: saying they do no more than maybe a handful every year. 582 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: And this comes to us from something published in nineteen 583 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: ninety five, so several decades of past. But I said, 584 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: there are benefits of this work, and he's on record 585 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: in the Journal of Trauma for this, and he said 586 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: the safe the journal. Look, yeah, if you're if you're 587 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: hanging out one afternoon and you're like, my day is 588 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: going too well, check out the Journal of Trauma. They're 589 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: doing important work. It's just kind of a downer. And 590 00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: and Professor King estimates that the safety improvements may by 591 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: these tests up to nineteen eighty seven saved at minimum 592 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: eight thousand, five hundred lives a year. So that's as 593 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: many as the guy that invented the seatbelt. No, no, 594 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,439 Speaker 1: not as many as Neil's bowl, and no relation, I wish, 595 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: but but it looks like that there is a decline 596 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: in using bodies to test auto accidents, as we can 597 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: see in how Cadaver's made your Car Safer from Wired. 598 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: There's not too much to be done now improving safety 599 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: inside of a car. No, you remember those like you 600 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: see them all the time, and movies from the forties 601 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: and the sixties, those uh steering wheels that had like 602 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 1: the head of a torpedo in the middle, just facing 603 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: right for impaling the whole face. You know, that's stuff's done. 604 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: That's stuff's done. Airbag tech is pretty good, you know 605 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,720 Speaker 1: what I mean. That will save your life. And again 606 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: you can't really do much with the design of what 607 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: a car is. A car is what a car is. 608 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: But we've gone far enough along in the in the 609 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: evolution of this technology that there's certain things that just 610 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: you hit a ceiling, and it's a good ceiling. In 611 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: this case, it's a safety ceiling that even the cheapest 612 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: of cars, you know, are going to be relatively safe 613 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: to occupy. And the next logical step is going to 614 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: be addressing human error on the side of the driver. 615 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: And that's still yeah the damas yeah, yeah, who are 616 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: you excited? I don't know, man. And again, you know 617 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: you've talked about this on car stuff too, where like 618 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: a big part of a reticence from some about autonomous 619 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: vehicles is less about yeah, sure, the safety of it's great, 620 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: but also like it kind of eliminates car culture in 621 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: a certain sense because people like cars because they go 622 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: room room and then they allow you. But then I 623 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: think will happen is that will become more of a 624 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: niche kind of interest and you'll still be able to 625 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: drive them on tracks. But I get I'm sorry, I'm 626 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: getting ahead of myself. There could become a future where 627 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: it is illegal for you to drive yourself on a 628 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: public roadway. Yeah, yeah, it's it's quite possible. And then 629 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: you go to the greater good argument. But this this 630 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: is a story for a future episode of Ridiculous History. 631 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: Right now, we just want you to know. One, crash 632 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: Test dummies definitely a thing. Two. A lot of those 633 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: were dead bodies of actual human beings and rugged up 634 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,720 Speaker 1: bears or drugged up bears, but not cocaine drugged up bears. 635 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: I feel like a bear on a lot of cocaine. 636 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: I've never tried cocaine. I don't endorse it, but I 637 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: feel like I feel like a bear out a really 638 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: active drug would probably bad news because steer the car 639 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, it'd be a bad news 640 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: just from flailing around. They would. Yeah, absolutely, Now, not 641 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: not a good not a good situation there. And we're 642 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: gonna get in a little bit more tangents and trivia 643 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. But I did want to point out, um, 644 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 1: the Crash Test Dummies cartoon. It was like a special 645 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: It was just a one time aired thing and it 646 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: wasn't like cell animation. It was really bad nineties CGI 647 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: kind of like it wasn't all serious. It was the 648 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: action figures were the action figures and then there was 649 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 1: a series based on the action figure. So I had 650 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: said I thought it was maybe the other way around, 651 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,320 Speaker 1: which is often the case like with he Man and 652 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: Ninja Turtles and all that. But some of the book 653 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: comic book. But then there was the cartoon. And then 654 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,759 Speaker 1: because of the cartoon or the action figures in the 655 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 1: cartoon were kind of hand in hand. But the characters 656 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: names were Vincent Larry who were the main guy. As 657 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: their vehicles, they all came with a vehicle crash car 658 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: with Dash. I guess Dash is like a little guy. 659 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,800 Speaker 1: Maybe Larry had the student driver car with Axel that 660 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: was their passenger. Then you have Darryl who drove the 661 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: crash cycle. Did they have a dog? Did they have 662 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: an animal? I bet you Dash was made the animal. Okay, 663 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, but I don't know for a fact. I'm 664 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 1: just looking at this list. And then we had spare Tire, 665 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,840 Speaker 1: which I'm guessing it was a fat joke because he 666 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: seemed a y. It also drove a crash shopper, which 667 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 1: is sort of like a biker gang kind of thing 668 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: where you picture like maybe you know, a spare tire 669 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: is a slang for like a belly, and then you 670 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: had Skid the kid who drove an ATV, which I 671 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: thought was fun. And then you had a pair hubcap 672 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: and bumper who had a crash lawnmower. Oh yeah, well 673 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: you get in situations. Yeah, us, I've got to stop 674 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: saying you get in situations. Yeah, man, it applies, all right, whatever, 675 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: But we are going to return next week with some 676 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: uh with some deep dives into the history of turn signals, 677 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: and we hope you joined us for that in the 678 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: In the meantime, maybe nol to the point about tangents 679 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: in trivia. We take a second to shout out some 680 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: horrific highway safety films. If you're having too good of 681 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: an afternoon, you've read the Journal of Trauma and you 682 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: think I'm still feeling too nice, maybe you should check 683 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: out these films. That's right. One of the most infamous 684 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: of these was one called Signal thirty, which is funny 685 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,720 Speaker 1: because I didn't know this, but there was a band 686 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: in my hometown. There was a kind of a punk 687 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: scene there, and they were this punk band called Signal thirty, 688 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,720 Speaker 1: and that was the name of a traffic safety scared 689 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 1: straight kind of video. They used real accident footage to 690 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: show the results like Faces of Death style. But also 691 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: there was a weird pro car bent to this there. 692 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: It was almost like propaganda where it put the onus 693 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 1: of blame on the drivers and not the automobiles. And 694 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,919 Speaker 1: this was the time where some of these cars still 695 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: maybe left something to be desired in terms of safety, right, yeah, 696 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: one hundred percent. I also want to shout out I 697 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: want to shout out two things that our show is 698 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: very biased about. The first is an excellent documentary called 699 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,239 Speaker 1: Hell's Highway, The True Story of Highway Safety Films by 700 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: our pal Brett Wood, who has also made a number 701 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 1: of early fiction shows with us before before our parent 702 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: company really got into it. So check out Brett Wood's work. 703 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,439 Speaker 1: And also, while you're there, you'll want to check out Max. 704 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: I hope I don't make this awkward for you. You'll 705 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 1: want to check out Ephemeral's excellent work on these highway 706 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: safety films. Max. As we wrap up today, could you 707 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that to give people a 708 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: heads up. Yeah. So, there was this weird phenomenon that 709 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: happened because of so many kids in the fifties being 710 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: subjected to these awful films like single thirty or like 711 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: these things. If you look at them, you watch them, 712 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: they're basically like their horror film The Faces of Death, 713 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: when that was a thing where you'd see like suicide 714 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: being an anthology of clips of real deaths. Yeah, so 715 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: they were very very not for children to call the 716 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: video nasties sometimes. Yeah, that was a fun, weird term 717 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: that was used to describe some of these types of 718 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: snuff adjacent films, you know. Yeah, So we went down 719 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,719 Speaker 1: this rabbit hole a couple of years ago and we 720 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: talked to doctor Bernice Murphy who is an author and 721 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 1: a professor, and she wrote the book The Highway Horror Film, 722 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: which is just talking about like all these films come out, 723 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: like some of the films like Psycho is often attributed 724 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: to this, like this genre of film. But how so 725 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: it's a motor hotel that people stop. It's a road movie. Yeah, 726 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,440 Speaker 1: I got you, Okay, interesting, I didn't think about so 727 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: like in the film, maybe there would be someone that 728 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: was like on a road trip and then the horrific 729 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: event happened. There's there's a couple, I believe there's four 730 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,440 Speaker 1: different types that she outlines, and one of the types 731 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: is like you're now in the middle of nowhere, but 732 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: these areas that you weren't able to access before, but 733 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: now because the cars, you're able to access these areas 734 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: and stuff. Hell, Texas Jamesaw Massacre kind of falls under 735 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: that exactly banner. Yeah, the Dark Side of the Great 736 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: American Road Trip for surely did not think about that. 737 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: That's super interesting and that's one of your favorites, I know, 738 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 1: And and that's where we're going to because you know, 739 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: this whole episode that we have doctor Bernice Murphy on 740 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 1: is about ridiculous history hero her Carvey, who did a 741 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: number of highway safety films, especially a lot of drunk 742 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,800 Speaker 1: driving films at Centro On Films where he worked for 743 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: thirty something the years, but he also did Carnival Souls. 744 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 1: The funny thing is Carnival Souls is really, if you 745 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 1: think about it, a highway safety film because the kids 746 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: being reckless driving and they drive their car off the thing, 747 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: and I think Skip Elzheimer, who's our other our other 748 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 1: guests on that episode, he outlines at the very end 749 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: by saying, uh, drive, I've step kids, or your soul 750 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,800 Speaker 1: will be tortured as you slowly descent to Hell. Or 751 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: something along those lines, which is basically the plot of 752 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: Carnival Souls. If you haven't seen Carnival Souls, watched it 753 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: and get ready for all the organ. Yes, there's a 754 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: lot of organ uh ed, there's a lot more to 755 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: discuss in the history of the automobile. Now, Noel, you, 756 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: Max and I are going to call it a day 757 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: with a great thank you, I think to to our 758 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 1: research associate and superproducer Max, as well as to Alex Williams, 759 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: who can posed this slapping Bob else we think indeed, 760 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: oh man, yeah, slapping away over there. Um. We'd also 761 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: like to thank christophrastiotis here in spirit. Eve's Jeff Coats 762 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: our boy, Alex Williams, you already said that, but I 763 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,279 Speaker 1: just want to say it twice. So nice, he sayd twy. 764 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,200 Speaker 1: Jonathan's chicklet. We're gonna see him in person really soon. 765 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: We're going to south By Southwest. Yeah, he's gonna be there. 766 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 1: He's gonna be there. M all right, we'll see how 767 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: it goes. Um. But yeah, thanks to you, Ben for 768 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: we were kind of our own Larry and Jerry what 769 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,280 Speaker 1: were their names? H Vincent Larry doing crash test references 770 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: yeah that was it. Yeah, I mean I watched it though, no, 771 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: you daled it. This is awesome. Tune in. Tune in soon, everybody. 772 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 1: We are going to debate turn signals and I'll probably 773 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,840 Speaker 1: talk trash about BMW's We'll see you next time, folks. 774 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 775 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.