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Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we don't know anything about

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Speaker 1: the SABAN cover seven man match defense.

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Speaker 2: But our guest does.

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Speaker 1: I'm Greg Rosenthal, and I'm here with Jordan Rodrieg and

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Speaker 1: I'm in the Chris Westling podcast studio, and I'm with

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Speaker 1: one of Jordan's friends and one of the biggest ball

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Speaker 1: knowers in the business, Cody Alexander, who runs match quarters

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Speaker 1: on the Substack. And yes, that was like one of

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Speaker 1: your recent posts was about the SABAN cover seven man

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Speaker 1: match defense and we're going to break that down on

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Speaker 1: this show for one hundred and fifty minutes.

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Speaker 3: Let's it might take a little longer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we're not gonna do that actually, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't know.

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Speaker 4: What you listeners do not turn off the show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Cody also hosts the Let's Talk Ball podcast,

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Speaker 1: but everyone check him out on substack where he has

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Speaker 1: built up a big following top ten in sports on substack,

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Speaker 1: and he's been building this up for almost a decade

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Speaker 1: getting into the nitty gritty of defensive play.

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Speaker 2: So what we're gonna do on this show.

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Speaker 1: First, we want to talk a little bit like big

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Speaker 1: picture about anything we've seen over the last month just

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Speaker 1: quickly go around and talk about anything we feel differently about.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure for you, Cody, it'll be maybe on

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Speaker 1: the defensive side of the ball, but just some rapid

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Speaker 1: fire what we feel differently about after watching some preseason

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Speaker 1: and everything. But then I think we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into a bigger picture conversation about what's next with defense

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Speaker 1: and Cody, it sounds like you're the type of guy

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Speaker 1: that people like Jordan and maybe coaches and just fans

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Speaker 1: who want to know more, they go to you to

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Speaker 1: like understand how defenses are actually run. So instead of

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Speaker 1: being the guy behind the scenes, we wanted to have

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Speaker 1: you on the show behind the curtain if you're instead

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Speaker 1: of like stealing your information like Jordan normally does, we're

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Speaker 1: going to have you here and you can just give

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Speaker 1: it so.

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Speaker 3: Much appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're excited to have you, Cody. Obviously, you've taught

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Speaker 4: me a lot about defense over the years. You've taught

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Speaker 4: a lot of people a lot about defense over the years,

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Speaker 4: And I think what's nice is we're highlighting defense today.

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Speaker 4: Most of the time, everybody fireflies toward offense. Cody, I

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Speaker 4: know you have a lot of experience with that, you

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Speaker 4: explained defense to people who need to know how defenses

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Speaker 4: affect offense.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing about defense is that it's not just

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Speaker 3: tackle somebody, right or cover somebody. You know, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot to it and it's really just an orchestration and

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Speaker 3: a lot of because it's reactionary in where the offense

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Speaker 3: is always producing something, the defense has to react to

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Speaker 3: it and it's setting you up for success. So it's

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Speaker 3: much more complicated than just tackle somebody.

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Speaker 4: But you dumb it down for me and I love that.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing and Cody's a great example.

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Speaker 1: We were talking before the show of you know, you

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Speaker 1: were a coach and a teacher and eventually after doing

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Speaker 1: this already for six years, you were able to turn

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Speaker 1: it into your full time job. And it's just defense

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Speaker 1: on the substance, there is no offense. Occasionally, people they'll

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Speaker 1: try to get in the comments talk about it. People

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Speaker 1: kick them off the site. I'm making that part up,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of pressure on us. I found

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Speaker 1: out as we were talking that Cody flew out in

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Speaker 1: part for this show, which Jordan bad job by you

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Speaker 1: not telling me that, I mean, that's that's too much responsibility.

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Speaker 1: So we got to make it count. Everyone go check

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Speaker 1: out match quarters. And why don't we start with you, Cody,

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Speaker 1: something that you have noticed, whether it's a scheme because

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Speaker 1: I don't know where you're going with this, or a

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Speaker 1: player or something that you've noticed over the last month,

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Speaker 1: maybe you kind of feel a little differently about.

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Speaker 2: That you've learned over the last month.

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Speaker 3: I look at there's so much hype around the Washington

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Speaker 3: Commander and a lot of it focuses on the offensive side,

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Speaker 3: but I have a big pause on the defensive side,

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Speaker 3: and just the track record of that staff just in

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Speaker 3: general of now we're looking at this. This defensive line

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Speaker 3: is a little bit scary to me heading into the season,

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Speaker 3: and you look at it with you know, their big

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Speaker 3: pickup was Kinlaw in the off season. He doesn't really

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Speaker 3: want to have much to do with the run game. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so there's a pattern here, right. We have Von Miller

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Speaker 3: and Bobby Wagner that are both like, I mean, they're

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Speaker 3: they're pushing, you know, late thirties, right, Like, are we

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Speaker 3: really relying on this for a whole year? This is

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Speaker 3: a game of attrition. And then you know, Will Harris

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Speaker 3: had one good year right from the Saints, they get Latimore.

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Speaker 3: Latimore's never finished the season, So you start really looking

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Speaker 3: at this, It's like, why is Farrell Armstrong, where's the

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Speaker 3: pass rush coming from? Where's the run stopping ability? You

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Speaker 3: can't have Bobby Wagner having two hundred tackles, right, Frankie

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Speaker 3: Louvu's great, But you start looking at all these pieces

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Speaker 3: and it's a little scary heading into the season.

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Speaker 1: And do you think they could make up schematically maybe

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Speaker 1: what they lack in just beef because it's a surprising

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Speaker 1: way to attack their offseason after you know, getting blown

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Speaker 1: out by the I know that was amazing that they

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Speaker 1: got into that game, but that's a team you're going

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Speaker 1: to obviously have to face twice every season.

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Speaker 3: Schematically, they don't know. There's not a lot of answers

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Speaker 3: from it. I mean, this is a defense that wants

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Speaker 3: to play man coverage primarily. They if you even go

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Speaker 3: back to Dallas days, I mean, Dallas's problem right now

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Speaker 3: fitting to run has a lot to do with the

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Speaker 3: way that they developed that the dan Quinn's system there,

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Speaker 3: and he's trying to mirror that there, and I just

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Speaker 3: don't know. When you start really looking at it. You know,

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Speaker 3: at a player by player level, is this going to

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Speaker 3: work or are they going to have the same problems,

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Speaker 3: like are you going to essentially have to score thirty

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Speaker 3: five points a game in order to win some of

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Speaker 3: these games? And I don't know if that's necessarily sustainable.

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Speaker 4: And they paid Johnny Newton, first of all, is getting

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Speaker 4: some pop in training camp, and he was injured last year,

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Speaker 4: and obviously they really hope that he takes a step

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Speaker 4: forward in order to actually shore up that interior defensive line.

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Speaker 4: At the same time, they paid Javon Kinlaw more money

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Speaker 4: than a lot of us expected him to get, and

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Speaker 4: there was familiarity with Adam Peters, who obviously knew kin

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Speaker 4: Law very well back when he was in San Francisco.

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Speaker 4: But to your point, you can't expect Bobby Wagner to

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Speaker 4: just have to hold the line against the run. And

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Speaker 4: he's still a great run defender, still one of the

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Speaker 4: hardest hitters, best tacklers in football. But you also watched

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Speaker 4: the way that they deployed Frankie Louvau a lot last year.

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Speaker 4: It was almost like, where's our emergency? Is it pressure

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Speaker 4: or is it coverage or is it run? Start helping

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Speaker 4: and run support, like he had to play so many positions.

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Speaker 4: He was great at him one of our favorite players

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Speaker 4: on NFL Daily. But I guess I would say all

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Speaker 4: the optimism and that came out about the way that

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Speaker 4: they were starting to try to reinforce this defense. I

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Speaker 4: feel a little bit worried about them heading into this season.

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Speaker 1: This was I feel like we hadn't done enough Commander's

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Speaker 1: talk on this show and then this was a big

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Speaker 1: week for it because they made it into our most

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Speaker 1: interesting offenses and this is our defensive talk. And when

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Speaker 1: I used to do fantasy football, we I used to say, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's an everybody in the pool game because their defense

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Speaker 1: ain't isn't very good, but their offense is amazing, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like this could be there could be a

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Speaker 1: lot of like everybody in the pool for Fantasy Days

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Speaker 1: and Commanders game because because games got are going to

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Speaker 1: be in the thirties. While I'm thinking fantasy, I'll just

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Speaker 1: throw out a quick one Baseiel Tuton. Weirdly, I hadn't

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Speaker 1: got a chance to watch his tape until after we

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Speaker 1: did the recap show last Sunday. Fourth round pick for

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Speaker 1: the Jaguars at running back. I feel differently just about him.

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Speaker 1: I thought his tape in the preseason like looks different

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Speaker 1: and better than it looked in college. And his ability

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Speaker 1: to cut while moving forward with the power and aggression

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Speaker 1: that he has is something, and like that would be

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Speaker 1: the one guy. And we had the Fantasy show earlier

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Speaker 1: in the week that I would just make sure you

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Speaker 1: have him in every league because I think they will

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Speaker 1: find a way to get him on the field, because

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Speaker 1: I think he's their best running back. Probably right now,

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Speaker 1: I think he's probably it makes more sense. Maybe Tank

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Speaker 1: Biggsy Bigsby is the guy that gets traded. There's been

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Speaker 1: some whispers that someone gets traded there. Maybe Bigsby goes

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Speaker 1: etn Stays is a nice compliment. And sometimes you find

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Speaker 1: these running backs in the second day, the second third

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Speaker 1: day of the draft and they come into the league

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Speaker 1: and they're immediately like top twelve to fifteen runners. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's I'm not, but I think more

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Speaker 1: than any other position, you can see that in the

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Speaker 1: preseason he looks freaking amazing. Yeah, I feel different.

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Speaker 4: He runs hard, his success rate is leading. It's a preseason.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to get crazy about success rate. Just yet,

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Speaker 4: but a success rate is leading other running backs in

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Speaker 4: the NFL in terms of per play. And I actually

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Speaker 4: kind of have a fun basial Tutin story because James Gladstone,

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Speaker 4: the GM for the Jaguars man, he really pissed off

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Speaker 4: his old boss and mentor less sneed because that was

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Speaker 4: a player the Rams had very very high on their

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Speaker 4: draft board, and James Gladstone also had him very very

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Speaker 4: high on their draft board. Liam Cohen was concerned at

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Speaker 4: the start of camp about how many times Basil Tutin

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Speaker 4: had put the ball on the ground aka fumbled the

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Speaker 4: ball in practice. But he seems to have been cleaning

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Speaker 4: that up in a big way. And if he can

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Speaker 4: keep it clean, he's going to be their lead one

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Speaker 4: of their lead players in no time. And I think

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Speaker 4: he's just a really great fit for what they want

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Speaker 4: to do with their run game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a major fumbling problem in college. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that will get you benched.

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Speaker 1: So that was like a big, a big reason why

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Speaker 1: he fell in the draft after you know, the forty

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Speaker 1: time that he put up. But I don't know, you

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Speaker 1: can just see it. The way he moves is rare. Jordan,

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Speaker 1: give us one thing that you feel differently about.

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Speaker 4: I have another commander's one. Oh, actually it's about Deebo Samuel.

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Speaker 4: I kind of really really felt bad for this guy

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Speaker 4: at the start of training camp because it didn't think

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Speaker 4: like seemed like optically anything could go right for him. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: he was getting a lot of memes made out of

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Speaker 4: him and a lot of really unfair I think criticism.

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Speaker 4: People were making a thing out of the size he looked,

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Speaker 4: at least when they opened training camp, and then the

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Speaker 4: Terry McLaurin situation is sort of lurking in the distance

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Speaker 4: of that entire offense. In general, I was not one

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Speaker 4: of the body shamers, but I did also still wonder

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Speaker 4: how Debo would fit into this offense. So now I

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Speaker 4: feel differently about that. And part of it was I

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Speaker 4: got to go up to Commander's camp and see everything

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Speaker 4: he's doing in that offense. He has clicked with Jade

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Speaker 4: and Daniels, and he is doing like literally a little

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Speaker 4: bit of everything in that passing game, including deep down

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Speaker 4: the field, including the intermedia and long range. Where he

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Speaker 4: looks smooth, he looks light on his feet, he looks fresh,

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Speaker 4: he has speed, and Jade and Daniels hit him on

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Speaker 4: a couple of deep throws down the field. They seem

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Speaker 4: to be really building that chemistry if they can just

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Speaker 4: get Terry McLaurin back. I feel a lot better about

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Speaker 4: what Deebo's fit and roll actually is in this defense.

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Speaker 1: Cody, Yeah, to me, I think, actually, no, you're not

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Speaker 1: allowed to talk about offense in this I even.

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Speaker 4: Said defense as I was looking at Cody. Oh my god,

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Speaker 4: it's like Pavlovian at this time. But I feel a

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Speaker 4: lot better about what Deebo's going to do in this offense.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think last year, just collectively everybody kind of

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Speaker 3: bullied Cliff Kingsbury into moving receivers around. I think he

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Speaker 3: finally grew out of the air raid structure of like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, McClaren can only play on the left, And

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Speaker 3: I think what you saw was within that explosion of

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Speaker 3: the offense last year. But then now you're adding somebody

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Speaker 3: that he still wants to run those perimeter screens. It's,

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Speaker 3: you know, the one thing that Kingsbury is not, the

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Speaker 3: air raid gets a lot of the kind of a

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Speaker 3: lot of people think that it's just this deep choice,

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Speaker 3: right because a lot of people think of like RG

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Speaker 3: three and R Brieles. That's not really the air raid.

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Speaker 3: This is really an intermediate based offense. They really want

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Speaker 3: to throw it, but they want to throw it into space,

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Speaker 3: and this is a guy that is essentially if you

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Speaker 3: throw it to him in space, literally people are going

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Speaker 3: to bounce off of him. So I think it's a

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Speaker 3: good fit, especially when you have somebody that can stretch

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Speaker 3: the field and then you have somebody that can come

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Speaker 3: underneath in that intermediate with Debo and move him around.

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Speaker 3: I think that that offense can be really explosively.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big first play guy, like, let's see what

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Speaker 1: they run for their first play in different situations that

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Speaker 1: they're almost like, I try to like pretend that it's

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Speaker 1: making some grand statement of what the season is going

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Speaker 1: to be, like what they think, and to me, it

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Speaker 1: was very telling that the first play that they had

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Speaker 1: out there with Jayden Daniels and Deebo sims Amuel on

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Speaker 1: the field together was an end round to Debo and yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're this is what's this is what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: and I love that you're just showing that to us.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to throw out the Bills defense. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying not to overreact to the preseason because I know

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of backups out there, but I'm curious

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Speaker 1: what you think of this. And I was texting with

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Speaker 1: our friend Ali Connelly about this too, and the combination

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Speaker 1: of how freaked out Sean McDermott seems on hard knocks,

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Speaker 1: like you can actually see he he is not happy

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Speaker 1: with where their defense is, how freaked out he seems

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Speaker 1: on the sidelines. I was talking with Oli, so I

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Speaker 1: don't want to take credit for it, like about some

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Speaker 1: of the things he's doing in the preseason, like trying

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Speaker 1: things that that aren't working, and then thinking about this

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Speaker 1: group in general. He he's not thrilled with the safety

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Speaker 1: position overall, like he is just calling them out. And

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Speaker 1: you look at their secondary and you know you lose

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Speaker 1: Maxwell Yirston early. He's not anywhere close to being back.

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Speaker 1: He was their first round pick at cornerback, so cornerback

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Speaker 1: is very thin. You're not feeling great in general about safety,

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Speaker 1: which was like the bedrock of this defense for so long.

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Speaker 1: And I'm finding myself, and I apologize to our producer

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Speaker 1: Eric the Big Bills fin I'm finding myself. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: am I am by, I am a little more worried

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Speaker 1: about the Bills defense in general. Maybe I shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: coming out of training camp because of because of how

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Speaker 1: tight and McDermott seems about it. All you can speak

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Speaker 1: to kind of Cody the what they want to do

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Speaker 1: defensively and maybe where you think that they need some

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Speaker 1: work this year.

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Speaker 3: This has been really since mcdermot's been there has been

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Speaker 3: one of the teams is consistently ran from a too

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Speaker 3: high shell, you know, and was running actually split field coverages,

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Speaker 3: so they were actually running like cover two quarters. They

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Speaker 3: were doing that last year. You could really tell that

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Speaker 3: they did not trust those safeties and so they started

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Speaker 3: getting into more situations where they're having to spin down

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Speaker 3: put guys in that place. You know, you look at

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Speaker 3: a guy like a Cole Bishop, they really want him

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Speaker 3: to start, they really want him to play. So they

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Speaker 3: played a little bit more covered three because that's what

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Speaker 3: he came from in Utah. You can see that, like

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Speaker 3: there's been times where he's lost in those deep coverages

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Speaker 3: where he doesn't know where to get his eyes, how

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Speaker 3: to transition from there, and so you can see that

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Speaker 3: they don't really like outside of Christian Benford, they're not

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Speaker 3: really comfortable with a lot of those guys, and I

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Speaker 3: think that that's where that like the Maxwell Harrison kid

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Speaker 3: played some of the most z own Kentucky played a

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Speaker 3: lot of zone coverage, so they got a long zone

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Speaker 3: corner fits the mold of what they wanted. He's not

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Speaker 3: going to be there, so now you're having to kind

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Speaker 3: of reshuffle everybody, and so you're right that you know

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Speaker 3: you're relying on a Joey Bosa and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: you know, recent draft picks to kind of go in

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Speaker 3: there and pass rush over coverage, right, like fix the

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Speaker 3: coverage by sacking the quarterback. And that's going to be

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Speaker 3: one of the interesting elements for the Bills.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that really concerns the Bills, and

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Speaker 4: I think when you hear them talk about this player

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Speaker 4: and how much he'll contribute to them when he finally

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Speaker 4: gets on the field is Michael Hoyt, who emerged into

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Speaker 4: an extra rusher. But somebody who really made that pass rush,

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Speaker 4: that five man rush, their Cheetah package they called it

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Speaker 4: in Los Angeles come to life, and they were able

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Speaker 4: to manufacture and design all types of pressure using him.

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Speaker 4: He will not be on the field for the first

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Speaker 4: part of the season because of a suspension, and I

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Speaker 4: have to think that through a wrench into some of

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Speaker 4: their plans of how they really want this defense to

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Speaker 4: build out this year.

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Speaker 1: And I've read in the Athletic like they weren't They're like,

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Speaker 1: could could they just cut Larry Ogunjoby, Like is he

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Speaker 1: even going to make the team? And team sign Larry

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Speaker 1: go and Joby and then they get excited and he

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Speaker 1: has a couple of high weeks and they get sick

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Speaker 1: of him because maybe he's not as good a run defense.

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Speaker 1: And Joe Bisalia of the Athletic like was speculating he's

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Speaker 1: also suspended for the Yeah, it's like I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: he's totally gonna make the team. Like so that worries me.

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Speaker 1: They have like their second round pick TJ. Sanders up front,

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Speaker 1: but in general in County Entredavius Dan Jack, I'm just

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Speaker 1: like a little freaked out. And then there's just this

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Speaker 1: is more of a vibe space thing too. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, it's just hard. I think I think it's

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Speaker 1: just hard mental. I think it's hard to stay at

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Speaker 1: that level year after a year, and we've seen it.

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Speaker 1: The Bills actually have been a more inconsistent team in

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Speaker 1: the regular season. Bills fans know this. Over the last

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Speaker 1: you know, four or five years than you would expect,

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Speaker 1: they go through these dips and can they revvit back

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Speaker 1: up and be that high level of an offense. I

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Speaker 1: think they'll need to be to make up for the

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Speaker 1: defense not being as good or needing to take some time.

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Speaker 1: All right, give me one more thing, Cody that that's

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Speaker 1: changed your mind over last month.

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Speaker 3: I think too. There's so much hype. I go to

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Speaker 3: another team in the NFC that has a ton of

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Speaker 3: hype on you know, hey, this is a potential Super

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Speaker 3: Bowl winning team, and then you really look at it, like,

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Speaker 3: let's really look at the roster here, and again, I

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Speaker 3: think the forty nine ers have some some major issues

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Speaker 3: on defense. And yeah, I love I love Sala. They're

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Speaker 3: going to run it back. This is you know, they're

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Speaker 3: going to get back into what they were doing. He's

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Speaker 3: essentially tried to find Robert Sala and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: different people to get him to that's so true Robert

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Speaker 3: SAWA's defense. So he went out and actually it's kind

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Speaker 3: of when the Eagles finally just went out and said

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Speaker 3: how much money do you want to be our defensive coordinator,

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Speaker 3: vic Fanji.

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Speaker 2: I mean Tobiko did a good job of.

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Speaker 4: It, No, a great job, but he also was there

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Speaker 4: in the glory days of that developmental staff under Robert

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Speaker 4: Sala Like he did a great job. But after Damiko,

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Speaker 4: what you're saying is true. They yes, they've basically gone like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: what what are some code words that you know that

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Speaker 4: can make us hire you because you know this defense well.

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Speaker 3: And that's the thing is, like you can see the frustration,

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Speaker 3: like the Wilkes Hira was really odd, didn't have any

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Speaker 3: didn't really know. Then you just go with Sorenson, who's

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Speaker 3: you know, Hey, you've been around, you're really a special

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Speaker 3: teams guy, but hey, can you call the defense? Is

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Speaker 3: here's a playbook And then I think you go and

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Speaker 3: look at it and you have a bunch of Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you have a first round draft pick in Michael Williams, right,

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Speaker 3: but you start looking at this this defensive line. This

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Speaker 3: is a defensive line driven scheme. Because it's a wide

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Speaker 3: nine scheme. They don't do a lot in the back end.

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Speaker 3: They really need this defense of line to go. This

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Speaker 3: used to be the best defensive line they had foot

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Speaker 3: eight guys that were drafted in the first round. Now

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Speaker 3: those guys are gone, so you have the kind of

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Speaker 3: a bunch of unknowns or a bunch of guys that

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Speaker 3: are kind of like rotational players. And then oh, hey

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Speaker 3: we have Nick Bosa. So you're really relying on one

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Speaker 3: player anytime. I just feel like in the in the NFL,

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Speaker 3: when you're especially on a defense, if you're lying on

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Speaker 3: one guy, you're in trouble.

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Speaker 1: And when you're relying on a draft class to save

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Speaker 1: a major problem, almost never works. And so that's basically

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Speaker 1: what they decided to do. Michael Williams first round, Alfred

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Speaker 1: Collins second round, CJ West fourth round. That all sounds

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Speaker 1: good at the time.

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Speaker 4: Fast forward sounds good for twenty twenty six, right.

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Speaker 2: That fast forward.

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Speaker 1: Mikeel Williams, I think they'll be happy with him so far,

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Speaker 1: but he's missed a couple of weeks. He's going to

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Speaker 1: be back on the field. Alfred Collins doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: they are happy with he might not be playable, and

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Speaker 1: CJ Wests like a fourth round defensive tackle, So asking

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Speaker 1: them all to do a lot is maybe too much.

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Speaker 4: The thing about Robert Sala as well is that this

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Speaker 4: has always been a front that he can play the

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Speaker 4: coverages behind them that they like to play because they

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Speaker 4: don't have to manufacture pressure. They like to rush the

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Speaker 4: way that they rush with the guys that they have

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Speaker 4: up front. Robert Sala has been one of the best

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Speaker 4: when he's coached to defense and doing that. It's not

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Speaker 4: that he can't blitz, it's not that he can't design

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Speaker 4: some of these things we're seeing, like the jesse Mentors

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Speaker 4: the Mike McDonald's do, but he has preferred in the

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Speaker 4: past to stay my guys are going to beat you

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Speaker 4: up front, and then our dbs can just and our

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Speaker 4: linebacker can just run wild and do whatever they do behind. Now,

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Speaker 4: this is not going to be a front in my opinion,

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Speaker 4: that's going to be able to do that. So he's

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Speaker 4: going to have to change. We can maybe get into

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Speaker 4: this in our next segment about what the future of

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Speaker 4: that is going to have to look like. But Kodia,

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Speaker 4: I think he's going to have to change his stripes

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Speaker 4: a little bit in order to get the most out

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Speaker 4: of this group in the short term.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it is is even reflective in

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Speaker 3: the secondary. I mean, they're wanting to, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of we're relying on Jason Pinnock to be you know, Hafunga,

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Speaker 3: and that's going to be a problem I think going

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Speaker 3: forward in you know. The other thing too, is like

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Speaker 3: Greenlaw really hasn't played that much, but they've really missed

433
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 3: that guy next to Fred Warner to let him kind

434
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: of be the alien that he is and just go

435
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 3: go make plays. And they just don't have that right now.

436
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: And they're hopeful that de Winters will be that guy

437
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 1: who a sixth round pick from two years ago that

438
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 1: you haven't heard too much about and hasn't played that well.

439
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 1: When he has played that they believe the light has

440
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 1: turned on and he is one of those guys. And

441
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 1: this is why I do like covering training camp because

442
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: you can you can hear at least the excitement that

443
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: they think he will be that dude and he's going

444
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,919
Speaker 1: to definitely play over their rookie third round pick Nick Martin.

445
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see, but they do have

446
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: some rookies that'll play right away, like an Upton Stout

447
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: and I love ute and up the next step next

448
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: segments because I think talking about whether Salas defense still

449
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: makes sense in twenty five is something fun to get to.

450
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick break. We won't

451
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: takrante Urser, just like I really maybe maybe killing Cam Robinson.

452
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: I like getting rid of it. We won't talk Chiefs

453
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: offensive line. We did that already, Cross Simmons.

454
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,959
Speaker 4: I'm thinking we won't talk injuries like Rashaun Slater Seahawks

455
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 4: run game.

456
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: Oh man, we've hit that a lot. We'll see after

457
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: the break back on NFL Daily. You can check us

458
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: out on YouTube, like subscribe like it really helps us out.

459
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: Leave us a review on iTunes as well. We were

460
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: talking about Robert Sala and I think using that as

461
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: a starting point, do you think his style of defense,

462
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: for instance, fits in what's going on in twenty twenty

463
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: five or has kind of defensive trends not made it obsolete,

464
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: but made his type of defense less popular.

465
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: I do think that the static nature of the wide nine,

466
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 3: like we see with Schwartz in the Browns, what Quinn

467
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 3: was trying to do at really in Dallas, I think

468
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: that is kind of dying out. I mean, sports really

469
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 3: had to pivot. This was a defense that dominated a

470
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: couple of years ago, and just running man coverage. Man

471
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 3: coverage is kind of like you're gonna tap out at

472
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: some point, right. It's like think about your running a

473
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: track meet for seventeen games. You might be able to

474
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 3: do that for a while. But then we saw when

475
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 3: they got into the playoffs they had a pivot to

476
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 3: cover three get a couple of injuries. So I think

477
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 3: with Sola, the one thing that he has an advantage

478
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: on that him and Olbrick were able to build with

479
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 3: the Jets was actually start building some quarter structures. You know,

480
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: your quarter quarter half. They ran a ton of Cover six,

481
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 3: which is quarter quarter half.

482
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: They explain that to the listener. What does any of

483
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 2: that mean?

484
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so all quarters is is you essentially are taking

485
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: all four of your backfield defensive backs and you're capping

486
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 3: all the verticals of the receivers. So there's typically five

487
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 3: receivers that are eligible. One of those is going to

488
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 3: probably be a running back, and so we're not talking empty,

489
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 3: we're talking back in the backfield. So your four eligible

490
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: receivers that are really on the line, those guys are

491
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 3: going to be capped by defensive backs.

492
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 4: And that's why they call it an umbrella coverage or

493
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 4: a shell.

494
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: Because if you need capped, what do you mean by.

495
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 3: Cap They're going to make sure they're on top of

496
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: the verticals, so you're not. It essentially is in the

497
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: old style of NFL cover four has always been a

498
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: really a third and long coverage. It's becoming more nuanced

499
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 3: now because teams are starting to really really lean into quarters.

500
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: One of the reasons why a lot of coaches don't

501
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 3: like quarters is because it is teaching intensive. You have

502
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 3: to actually have tags, you have to have certain ways

503
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: that we're going to match routes, and you have to

504
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: work those matches, and a lot of guys don't have

505
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 3: the time nor do they have the knowledge. I know

506
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 3: this sounds crazy, but quarters is not. This is not

507
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 3: college football, this is the NFL. And there's a lot

508
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: of guys that have not run quarters outside of like

509
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: third and law.

510
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so when you play like this, and what

511
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: we've seen is in the emergence of this type of

512
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 4: system Fangio. But then also you know the the you

513
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,959
Speaker 4: know Jim Johnson and the old Sean McDermott, ron Rivera days.

514
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 4: You know, those guys will always say, well, we were

515
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 4: doing quarters before Fangio was doing quarters and all this stuff,

516
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: and so now you're really seeing Fangio popularize this because

517
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 4: basically what it does is it builds a dome over

518
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 4: all of the unfolding layers of the passing game. And

519
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 4: you hear people complain about like the shell and too

520
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 4: high has ruined passing, and like all of these things.

521
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: And that's why this has become a popular thing. What

522
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 4: what Robert Sala had done in New York. And it's

523
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 4: also why Jeff Ulbrich became such a popular coaching hire

524
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 4: was because of the different ways that they were building

525
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 4: that hyper aggressive wide front that could still cut off

526
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 4: outside zone runs and screens that have become very very

527
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 4: popular in the league because if you think about it

528
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 4: this way, if your defensive line is automatically playing wider,

529
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 4: you're able to those players are able to cut off

530
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 4: the wider parts of the run game and the wider

531
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 4: parts of the passing game wide zone and schemes and screens.

532
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 4: So now you're going to a defense that can is trying,

533
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: at least I don't think he has a personnel this

534
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 4: year is trying to do both play wide up front

535
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 4: and dynamic in the pass rush, which means you can't

536
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 4: design as much pressure because your guys are more matching

537
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: routes and playing in the backfield.

538
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 1: You called your substack match quarters. So this style of

539
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: defense gaining popularity in the NFL.

540
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: It's good for you, good for.

541
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 4: Business, and nobody was explaining it.

542
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were ahead of the game. How did you

543
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: see that coming?

544
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 3: I mean, well, because this is what you had to

545
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 3: do in twenty ten to defend all the uber spread

546
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 3: that was hitting. Seeing college football and then also the

547
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: quarterreck run game is also an element. But the big

548
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: difference is the quarters that you see at the college

549
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: level and even at the high school level is not

550
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: necessarily the same at the NFL level. And I will

551
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: even go one further, like Vig Fangio isn't even a

552
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: quarters guy. He's actually more of a rotational cover six guy.

553
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: So he has cover two on one side right, which

554
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 3: is a triangle. Think of it. Think of it like

555
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: in geometry terms. Cover two is a triangle. You have

556
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: a corner in the flat, you got a linebacker overhanging

557
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: the scene, you have a safety on top. Quarters is

558
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: a box. You got a flat, you gotta seam. You

559
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: got two cap defenders, So you've created a box. And

560
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 3: so what he's done is he's actually in one of

561
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 3: his innovations, is really playing everything from a two hot shl. Yes,

562
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: he's really a Cover three guy. Most of the Fangio

563
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: adjacent guys are all cover three guys. But the way

564
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 3: that it mirrors when you have a cover two and

565
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: you can rotate it right, I can rotate it to

566
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 3: the nickel or the passing strength, or I can use

567
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: it to kind of get a zone double on the

568
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: single receiver to the backside. When you do that, everything

569
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: looks like wek rotation cover three, which means we're dropping

570
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: the safety away from the nickel. So you get this

571
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: muddying of quarterbacks have always looked at the the weak

572
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: side safety for their indicator. Well, if that guy doesn't move,

573
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: I don't have an indicator, And so the indicators are

574
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: now at the corner, and there's no quarterback that is

575
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 3: looking at the corner for the coverage indicator. So it's

576
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: just an extension in all these guys, especially like with

577
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: a solo. You go back in twenty eighteen to twenty nineteen,

578
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: they hopped on that quarters train really quick and kind

579
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 3: of ran with it. They run a little bit. It's

580
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 3: not the same The Ravens system guys. So the McDonald's

581
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 3: and the mentors, they have kind of picked up the

582
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: Fangio system because that's all stemmed from the nineteen eighty

583
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 3: nine Saints with the Jim Moore.

584
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: Senior right, and then I mean there's all this stuff

585
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: that feels new, all has antecedents to like what you're saying,

586
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and Jim Mora and Buddy Ryan and even Buddy Ryan's

587
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: stuff he would say he was stealing it. And that's

588
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: back in the eighties and early nineties with a.

589
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 4: Lot of pressure. Now is coming from Bryan Man. It's

590
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 4: crazy what's coming out these days.

591
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: Right, So it's like it is amazing to think that's

592
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: how football has of and work. But what's a team

593
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: that you love Cody to watch now, whether it's twenty

594
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: twenty four and coming into twenty twenty five in terms

595
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: of what they're doing schematically and just like specifically with

596
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: their players mentioned the players too, that like you think

597
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: is on the cutting edge and really is about like

598
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: where defense is right now and where it's going.

599
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: I think the most fun defense for the past three years.

600
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: I think if you ask a lot of NFL fans

601
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: will probably like it's got to be the Vikings, right,

602
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 3: they're just blitzing everybody face melter five thousand defense, right, Flora's.

603
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 4: Just just over there, just like face melting.

604
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 3: It's actually not the best defense to watch if you

605
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: are a scheme nerd or you want to watch just

606
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: some wild stuff on Sunday is to watch the Arizona Cardinals.

607
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: Right. But that's partly because they don't have but why that's.

608
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: The talent, right, I mean part because they're just throwing

609
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: crazy stuff if they had better talent, do you think

610
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: they would be as crazy? They haven't changed, but they

611
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: haven't had the talent until this year, but.

612
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: They But but even so, like if you go back

613
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: and really watch what Gannon was doing with the Eagles,

614
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: is a lot of the foundational stuff of what they're

615
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 3: trying to do. And then he goes and he hires

616
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: Patrick Tunney from from Florida, who is if you don't

617
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: know who Patrick Toney is, he is a basically a

618
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: cult legend in the coaching world. Like he is a

619
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: he's a schematic nerd like me, that's why we're friends.

620
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: But he he can do some things in the secondary

621
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: and design secondary stuff and it fits the quarter structures

622
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: with what Gannon was trying to get to. So gan

623
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: is see the Fangio wants to run his six and

624
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: eight stuff, so he wants to rotate the cover two,

625
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: whereas Gannon was like, I just want to play quarters,

626
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: and so what they're doing is true splitfield coverage where

627
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 3: I mean they did this. If go back and watch

628
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: the Chiefs preseason game and they're running a five man front,

629
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: they're running robber coverage, so they're dropping a safety down,

630
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 3: they're overlapping the corner to get into a cover too.

631
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: They're doing it in the preseason.

632
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: They're doing it in the preseason. They don't care.

633
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 1: They you never see interesting schemes or everything is completely

634
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: vanilla in the preseason. That's not really that true anymore,

635
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: but I mean it is sometimes, but it's also not

636
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: with others.

637
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 4: It's true for some offenses, but I posit that it's

638
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 4: it's not true anymore for teams that don't give a

639
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: hoot because they will run their stuff because they know

640
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: you're not going to see it. When when I talk

641
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 4: to coaches around the league and they're they're trying to

642
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 4: discern between what quarters is and what something different, different

643
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: type of zones are they can't because everything looks so

644
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 4: similar and these are at the top of their level coaches.

645
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: So Jessie Miner's dropping out defensive tackles to pick off

646
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: stets In Bennett in the fourth quarter of like a

647
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: meeting in the meaningless preseason game.

648
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 4: It meant a lot to stets In Bennett. Yeah, I'm

649
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 4: just saying, but that's the thing. It's there. They're so

650
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 4: good now that it's okay that they're showing things because

651
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: they think that you're going to try to just play

652
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 4: your offense. True anyway, because if you're a quarterback and

653
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 4: you're having to do all of these things pre snap,

654
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 4: and your coordinator that's having to do all these things

655
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 4: pre snap that we've talked about before, that you have

656
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 4: to do a the Cardinals. I remember a couple of

657
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: years ago when Matthew Stafford was like, I didn't know

658
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 4: what the heck I was seeing right with the Cardinals.

659
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 4: So we just ran the ball fifty times, you know,

660
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: and so and if you can, you should. But like,

661
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 4: that's the thing about that defense. It's interesting is they

662
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 4: don't care if they're showing you their work because they

663
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 4: don't think you're going to be able to see it.

664
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 4: They think you're just going to have to play your

665
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: offense regardless because they don't think you're going to see

666
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: it the way that they're actually showing their rules.

667
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: So what is it that they do that that's so difficult?

668
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: And do you think it can take the step forward?

669
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: The Cardinals specifically, because yeah, the argument would be against

670
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: them is like, Okay, year one they were just yeah,

671
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: it was interesting, but they weren't good. And then year two,

672
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 1: I think they punched above their weight, but ultimately they

673
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: were like average. I think they punched above their weight

674
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: in terms of the talent that they have, and they

675
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: added a lot up front this year. Are they going

676
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: to be as crazy this year? And like, what is it?

677
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: What is it that gets you going that's so crazy

678
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: that works? Ultimately, they they still were boom or bus.

679
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think they overachieved, but I'm also

680
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: not They weren't one of the ten best defenses in

681
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: the league last year by pretty much any like Advanced

682
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: Metric fourteenth and DVO. They were playing well, and like

683
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: I said, like they weren't playing with great players either,

684
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: so that that's part of it.

685
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: Well, I think they've kind of built. They knew that

686
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: they needed to get the front structure right, that that's

687
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: what they needed. So they bring in like Kalay's Campbell

688
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 3: to work with a Walter Nolan right, and then you

689
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: have you have Josh Wett who now they have a

690
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: pass rusher, you have these hybrid, you still have a

691
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 3: Xaving Colin. So like what ended up when they got

692
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: there was it was like an island of misfit toys.

693
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: Is that they had all these like hybrids that they

694
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: didn't really know where they fit, and so what do

695
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: you do? You build a hybrid defense around that. What

696
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: they're doing really essentially is it's it's a build a

697
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: three four. So they have three safeties across the backside

698
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: with Buddha Baker really being the you know, the key

699
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: cog and all all of this, and then they can

700
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: blitz him. They can drop them to the boundary, they

701
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: can drop them to the field. They can go and

702
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: they can you know, run him, and they can run

703
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 3: that regular Tampa structure. They can run quarters, they can

704
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: run cover three. They can do almost anything out of

705
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: that three high structure, which is another trend that we're

706
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: seeing in the NFL. You know, we mentioned mentor on

707
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: here several times. But third down is typically when we're

708
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: starting to see these three high structures. But they play

709
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: it from base down, So first and second down they

710
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 3: are going to be in some sort of a five

711
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: men front. There's going to be one linebacker sitting there,

712
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: and you have no idea where Buddha Baker is going

713
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: to end up, and even what they showed in the preseason,

714
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: you have no idea what the final covered structure is

715
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: going to even look like. So we can drop him

716
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: down and you think, Okay, we know now what we're

717
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: getting into. But then the whole back end is like

718
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: an amba and it just like morphs into something that

719
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: you don't even know. And so I really think, yes,

720
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: there's a genius out of desperation, right, But I do

721
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: think that there's real structure here. It's not a gimmick.

722
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: They believe in it. And he's got one of the

723
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: you know, Gann has got one of the youngest staffs,

724
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 3: and I think it's refreshing that the younger generation. You're

725
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 3: seeing these younger dcs get shots early. They're not getting

726
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 3: shots in fifty and sixty when they're just like, I

727
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 3: ain't messing up because I just got this job. It's like, now, hey,

728
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 3: let's do some weird stuff.

729
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: Nick Rallis is thirty two years old and he's had

730
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: that job what for two years?

731
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was thirty.

732
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 4: And I will say there's also this growing trend and

733
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: I wonder if you could speak a little bit about

734
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 4: this too. Cody is a lot of these young especially

735
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 4: younger dcs that are coming up. And Chris Shule is

736
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 4: one of these guys in LA and Jesse Minter was

737
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 4: talking about how he studied. He studied so much offense

738
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 4: and he sat in so many offensive rooms. Kevin O'Connell

739
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 4: and Brandon Staley used to do this to each other.

740
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 4: They used to go into each other's meetings and try

741
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: to sitit it. But Nick Rallis, the first time I

742
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 4: ever met Nick Rallis was when he was in an

743
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 4: offensive coaching incubator, like studying offenses. And so I think

744
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 4: what they're seeing is how fast offenses are moving. How

745
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 4: you can't can you have to come up with a

746
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 4: defense and a plan that is going to be a

747
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 4: catch all for all kinds of rapidly moving and shifting

748
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 4: offensive cycles. Okay, the run game quote unquote is back

749
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 4: heavier personnel, using multiple tight ends, even a fullback. We

750
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: didn't talk about Seattle's run game, but Robbie outs like

751
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 4: starting to use the full back back in like these

752
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 4: throwback Shanahan which you say throwback now, but what was

753
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 4: it twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, But like these things are

754
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 4: coming back. So you have to have a defense where

755
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: it is going, to anticipate what offenses are doing and

756
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: where offenses are going. You have to understand that in

757
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 4: order to build what will be a catch all for

758
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 4: regardless of where you're at in the team building.

759
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 3: Well, I think too that this generation is starting with

760
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: my generation. I'm about turn forty here here in January.

761
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 3: My generation was probably that first generation in the early

762
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: two thousands that was like introduced to the spread. And

763
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 3: then so are coaching careers have been through the spread lens,

764
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: whether it was in college. And then we see that

765
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: spread explosion really in twenty eighteen when it broke football

766
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 3: at the NFL level, and these guys are used to like, hey,

767
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 3: we're already outmatched offensively, how can we figure this out?

768
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 3: So a lot of these guys are willing to do

769
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 3: some different things and think outside the box and then,

770
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: like you said, there's been a trend really within the

771
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: last five to ten years of offensive coaches going and

772
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: picking a really talented young defensive coach and bringing them

773
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: over and sitting in them in the office and having

774
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 3: them tell me, hey, how are they figure okay, how

775
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: are they matching this? What are the rules for this?

776
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 3: How can we take advantage of that? And so offenses

777
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: have accelerated, but they're also pulling that knowledge back and

778
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: bringing it back into the defensive room, and it's just

779
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 3: recycling and so that cat and mouse game is just

780
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 3: kind of continuing.

781
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: There is I don't think a fear, but do you

782
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: think there are There are these things pieces out there

783
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: is like defense is making a comeback, that defense is ahead,

784
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: Like how A do you think that's remotely true at all?

785
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: And b Like along with what Jordan was saying in

786
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: terms of right now the trends on offense being back

787
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: to getting like a little heavier, a little more run heavy, Like,

788
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: what do you think defenses are gonna do this year

789
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: to help counter that?

790
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 3: Well, I just think historically the NFL goes through very

791
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: distinct cycles and these are predictable. We can see this.

792
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 3: You can go all the way back to the seventies

793
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: when Arnsbarker and the fifty three defense, this was basically

794
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 3: the birth of the three four. Then offense is advanced.

795
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: Then you have LT we have the move tied end

796
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,479
Speaker 3: from Gibbs, so we have our h back and twelve

797
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: personnel packages come in, we have you know, you keep

798
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: going further down, and then now we get into where

799
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: defenses have essentially become a bunch of hybrid positionless players.

800
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: We talk about it all the time, it's been there,

801
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: but like we really truly are now the one thing

802
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 3: about football that will remain this name. So you talk

803
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: about will defense ever, you know, just dominate like it

804
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: did in the nineties when we were playing the Andanderthal

805
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 3: ball in three yards and a cloud of dust? But

806
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 3: I don't think it will.

807
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: The spreads one, the NFL won't let it.

808
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 4: No spread one. Yeah, passing one.

809
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 3: Passing one. Analytically we know it's more efficient than running

810
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: the running the ball. We we now understand how to

811
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 3: manipulate space. They know how to motions and and the

812
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: way that the rules are set up.

813
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: With say if not, the NFL just changed the rules

814
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 1: right exactly exact. I'm not joking and that's obvious. They've

815
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: done it throughout the history.

816
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 3: Well, offense, Look, I'm a defensive guy and I can

817
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: just from from experience. People love offense, that's what puts.

818
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: But I love defense.

819
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a glutton for punishment, So yes, I'm

820
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: a defensive coach by trade, so yes. But the offensively,

821
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: I think the way that this cycle always works is

822
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 3: that the defense comes back right, they figure it out,

823
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 3: and then the offense is forced to then do something

824
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 3: new and so I I think defensively, one of the

825
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: things we've mentioned it the quarters kind of waned last year,

826
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: but it didn't wane in the fact that people weren't

827
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: running it. It just came up and like more people

828
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: are running these. I call it targeted coverages. It's the

829
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 3: Fangio system where you're moving a cover two around, whether

830
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: it's to the nickel away. What you're building is backstops

831
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: and zone doubles. So I'm going to cap your best receiver.

832
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: But then I'm also if you want to run them

833
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: across the field because you don't want to run a vertical,

834
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to create a backstop away from him. So

835
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 3: that's where these quarter structures comes in. And I think

836
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 3: that's one of the things that people don't understand about defense.

837
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: They just think two high shells either cover two or

838
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: it's quarters. And it's not like Fangio isn't a quarters guy,

839
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 3: but he transitioned into one. And why because what are

840
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 3: offenses doing right now? In the NFL? They're getting tighter

841
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: and tighter and tighter. One of the biggest things last

842
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: year was what's called a wave concept. So you essentially

843
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: run a vertical to the middle of the field and

844
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 3: then you take two deep crosses and you run them across.

845
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: It's the old yankee or the old cross country concept

846
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: that's been around for football forever. But they're adding an

847
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: extra guy, and so how are you going to defend that?

848
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 4: Now?

849
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: We got guys in quarter structures. Make sure that you

850
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: can have guys on both sides and they just tilt.

851
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 3: They just tilt, they can cross key it and so

852
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 3: they're picking it up. And so that's why I think

853
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 3: quarters will come back. I think man coverage has slowly

854
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: gone down, and then two man. Nobody runs two man anymore.

855
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and explain what two man is?

856
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: Two safeties high man underneath what kills two men? Running quarterbacks?

857
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: What do we have on almost every single team a

858
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: quarterback that can scramble and so you don't. It's like

859
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: less than one percent.

860
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: And also like that, it is interesting that the value

861
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: of like man cornerbacks who are that's the best thing

862
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: that they do feels which is weird, because that's that's

863
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: what you think about with cornerbacks, like their value has

864
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: gone down like those sorts of players I'm trying to

865
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: think of, who's a good example, like a Carlton Davis

866
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: is probably less valuable than he would have been, you know,

867
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago.

868
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 4: And I think part of it too is because these

869
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: coverages can morph around how routes are unfolding on the field,

870
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 4: that automatically actually increases the importance of cornerbacks who have

871
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: played in a match zone system or a system that

872
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 4: at least has pattern matched or a system that at

873
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 4: least which means that you are understanding where the route

874
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 4: is going to go. You're not playing a space on

875
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 4: the field like a zone would. Instead, you're playing where

876
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 4: you know the route is going to go. And that's

877
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 4: where I think this is different. That you're having defensive

878
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: players who can do more than ever, that are smarter

879
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 4: than ever that can fit. Have seen more football than

880
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 4: ever that can fit in these like ellipses around the

881
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 4: back portions of fields in accordance with where the offense

882
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 4: is trying to attack them. And I think that's why,

883
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 4: in part you saw a reaction and in part because

884
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 4: the nickels were so small, you saw a reaction to

885
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 4: teams doing the thing that I just said. Matthew Stafford said,

886
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 4: he told Sean McVay to do I don't know what

887
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 4: I'm seeing. Run the damn ball. Yeah, that's exactly why.

888
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: And that's exactly why you're seeing this spring out. You

889
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 4: only get maybe a year or two of this before

890
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 4: the next thing comes out, the next offense breaks, defense

891
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 4: thing comes.

892
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: Out, and waves happened so fast, like and I think.

893
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 4: The increase the improvement of technology is a part of that.

894
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 4: Like we're talking about coaches that are sharing so many

895
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 4: things with each other now, where it used to be

896
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: like I carry my playbooks strapped to my body, you know,

897
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: into my house at night because I don't want someone

898
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 4: else taking it from me. Now everything's available to watch

899
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 4: and take. And these guys are are running these clinics

900
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: with each other. They're bringing college coaches up to run

901
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: clinics with them as offensive coaches, to sit in to

902
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 4: hear what they know, to pick their brains kind of

903
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: like what we're making Cody do for us here today.

904
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: I know we appreciate it. Cody. Yeah, before we let

905
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 2: you go because we're wrapping up here.

906
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know, you mentioned kind of like, Okay,

907
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: you got the five down line men, five up front,

908
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: and there's like one linebacker on the field, and that

909
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: is something I'm curious to hear your thoughts on just

910
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: linebackers right now. Not that they're an endangered species, but

911
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: it is really interesting to think, maybe more than any

912
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 1: position on defense, over the last twenty years, have evolved

913
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: and their importance has on one level minimized because there's

914
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 1: just less of them literally on the field that can

915
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: do everything. But man, it's important to have that one

916
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: guy for Jesse Minner to have that day on Henley,

917
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: that's the one linebacker on the field. So you watching

918
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: football and film like who do you love to watch

919
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: and maybe talk a little bit about how that position

920
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: has evolved and becomes so so difficult to find like

921
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: the right person to do that.

922
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 3: Well. I think a great example of where we are

923
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: in modern linebacker play is the commanders, because what you

924
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: have is a Bobby Wagner who is a traditional mic linebacker.

925
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 3: He is an a gap fitter. He's going to plug

926
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 3: the run. He can. He's good enough in coverage that

927
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 3: he can give you a little bit of space in

928
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 3: the middle of the field, but you don't necessarily want

929
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: him always guarding somebody. And then you have right next

930
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 3: to him as Frankie Luvu, who is he an edge

931
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: is he a linebacker? He can be whatever you need

932
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 3: him to be. You know he is staying in that.

933
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: You have a guy like Zach Bond, who essentially was

934
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 3: an old school Ted linebacker. Ted has a te in it,

935
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 3: meaning he just lined up on the tight end and

936
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 3: played essentially a glorified nine techniques, so he was outside

937
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 3: of the tight end and he was just a wall

938
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: builder for the defense. And then he comes to the

939
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 3: Eagles and Fangils moving him around like he was moving

940
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: Andrew Van Ginkel. And so I think what you see

941
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: with these off ball linebackers and really where we are

942
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: because of this hybridization of everything. You can't just be

943
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 3: a four down front anymore. You know, you have to

944
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: be able to get into odd fronts. You can't just

945
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: be a single high coverage team. You have to run

946
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: some of these two high structures. And I think what

947
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: you're seeing is you have to add value now as

948
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 3: a player, we're in an add value now, Like you

949
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 3: have to be able to be an off ball linebacker,

950
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: but then can you pass rush? Can you add value

951
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: or is your added value in the coverage so you

952
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 3: can run. You know, you have to find ways to

953
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: add value. And I think the linebacker position they're kind

954
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: of now two rooms. We have our kind of hybrid

955
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: guy that can go down and he can pass rush,

956
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 3: but then we also have our traditional linebackers that you

957
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 3: still need in the game because they still have to

958
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: fit the a gap.

959
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

960
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 4: I when I was on my training camp circuit, like

961
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 4: traveling around the camps, it was interesting. A coach that

962
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 4: I talked to described it as this giant like combating

963
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 4: math equation, right where if you already automatically know that

964
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 4: the way that offenses can play. Now you have a

965
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 4: running back who can work out of the passing game

966
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 4: and also run the ball. That's a plus two one

967
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 4: trait another trait two ads, it's a plus two. You

968
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 4: have tight ends who can block and be a mismatch

969
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 4: in the pass game. That's another plus two. You have

970
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: receivers who can block and also be a mismatch in

971
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 4: the pass game, that's another plus two. So if you're

972
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 4: not at least a plus two play at a skill

973
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 4: on offense, you are not going to be on the

974
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 4: field for as many downs. They're going to try to

975
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 4: take you off as much as possible. Conversely, on the

976
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 4: defensive side, if you cannot become a plus two player,

977
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 4: whether it's the positions you can play or the phases

978
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 4: of football that you can contribute in, you are not

979
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 4: going to be on the field at this point in football,

980
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 4: and you're just trying to match the opposite side's numbers advantage,

981
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 4: which is always the dance that happens when you're scheming

982
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 4: him game plan against people.

983
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: Unless you join the Raiders as a linebacker, who I

984
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: think Pete Carroll is just like lining up like not

985
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: plus two's just guys that they're old school from the

986
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: nineties and kind of bring it. No, No, that's hard,

987
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: you got me thinking, Johd Campbell, I mean, is that

988
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: is that plus one? And Zach Bond I think is

989
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: sort of a prototype now, which is crazy to think

990
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: about based on where he was a year ago at

991
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: this time, But like, how do you think those two

992
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: guys together, Like they're going to deploy those two What

993
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: can you do with two linebackers like that?

994
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of one of the trends we're seeing

995
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 3: is that, Okay, we're a nickel base the defense, meaning

996
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: that we're gonna have five DB's on the field. Okay,

997
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 3: Traditionally that's with a four down line. Okay, the Penny front,

998
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: which is a five to one, which is what we

999
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 3: talked about with the Cardinals. That's kind of people are

1000
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 3: starting to move away from it because those edges aren't

1001
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 3: dynamic enough. And when I put five to one out there,

1002
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: you know, like when our PENNI pegage is out there,

1003
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 3: you know, here's a certain set of things that we

1004
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: can do, and here's a certain set of things that

1005
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 3: we can't. So it makes it often seasier. But if

1006
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: I go a four down lineman and I'm in a

1007
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 3: regular traditional nickel, but then I walk one of my

1008
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 3: guys down, whether it's strong or weak. Now were and

1009
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: now we're into a five min front, changes the blocking

1010
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: changes the protections. Is he going to drop back out?

1011
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: Is he not?

1012
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: Are you gonna blitz and then drop them? Like, there's

1013
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: a million different things that now variable. So if a

1014
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 3: guy like you know McVeigh is going to run everything

1015
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: through eleven personnel, but you know your your receivers, you know,

1016
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 3: a fossil full back, Okay, well that's great less than

1017
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 3: a half person right, So what if we did the

1018
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: same thing on defense? And I think that's why you

1019
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 3: were starting to see too. Like another trend is safety collection, right,

1020
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: big Nickels back from a decade ago. It's back, We're

1021
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: going to have three safeties on the field. So I

1022
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 3: think that part of it. Now Fangio has two guys

1023
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: that he can do that with and you don't know

1024
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 3: where they're going to come from.

1025
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: It's also just humans are getting better at doing everything athletically.

1026
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: I feel like that that's underrated. It's like my theory

1027
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: that you know, almost every NFL game has a play

1028
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: that's better than any play that happened in the seventies.

1029
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: It's just like the humans are advancing. I mean, you

1030
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: look at basketball, you look at tennis, you look at football.

1031
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: A lot of the things that you just said about football,

1032
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: like to me. You could say about basketball, you could

1033
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: say about tennis. Where is everyone can now do everything

1034
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: It used to just be like this is his style

1035
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: play and it's positionless and it's offense defense just like

1036
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 1: we're getting better.

1037
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: It's exciting. Cody.

1038
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 1: It was a pleasure to have you on. We gotta

1039
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: do this again. My brain is it's expanding, it's going

1040
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: to explode from everything I learned here on defense.

1041
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: And I love having you on. And we got to

1042
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: make this flight worth it.

1043
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you came all the way out here for

1044
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: a little old NFL Daily.

1045
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: Go check out Substack.

1046
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 4: I can tell, yes, I can tell you're very pleased

1047
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: with yourself when we are going to football practice.

1048
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: Man, okay, you went to sight Ran Come on now,

1049
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: like what you what do we doing?

1050
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: He told me that he came out for NFL Daily,

1051
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: So I'm just taking there.

1052
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 4: You're the host of NFL Daily. Of course he said

1053
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 4: that to you.

1054
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: I loved it, so yeah, make it count. Check out

1055
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,479
Speaker 1: Cody's substack match Quarters. Join the twenty thousand subscribers there

1056
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: for match Quarters on substack, and he's got the Let's

1057
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: Talk Ball podcast as well. It was a pleasure, Jordan.

1058
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: You will be back with me next week. But the

1059
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: next time you'll hear from me will be Sunday night. Yes,

1060
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: the last of our weekly Sunday evening recaps with Nick Chuck.

1061
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: I'm gonna miss it.

1062
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 4: I know. I like the vibe. They're good, good vibes

1063
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 4: in that.

1064
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: I feel like you start off and you're like excited

1065
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: for the preason, and then you're ready for it.

1066
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: Then I don't know what it says about me, but this.

1067
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: Year, I think I've actually like enjoyed the preseason more

1068
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: than ever.

1069
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: So we'll be back Sunday evening. Football's back