WEBVTT - Episode 3: If U Seek Alice 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.080 Hi. Before this episode begins. I just want to make 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.400 sure that you know this series gets into some things 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.760 that might be triggering for some listeners, specifically suicide and depression. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.480 If you or someone you know is struggling with suicidal thoughts, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.200 please seek assistance from a mental health professional, or visit 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.160 the National Institute of Mental Health website at n I 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.920 m H dot ni H dot g o V for resources. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.880 If you're currently in crisis, you can call one hundred 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:33.080 to seven three talk two, or text the word hello 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.800 to one seven for one to speak to someone right away. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:48.720 Thanks for listening. Britney Spears's music video for her two 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:51.920 thousand nine single if You Seek Amy tells a story 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.160 that's familiar to followers of her career. It starts in 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.200 a dark bedroom littered with lingerie, booze, and half naked models. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.040 It's the more ing after a rager, and Brittany is 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.360 at the center Messcarus Mudge, the epitome of sex appeal 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:11.880 bad Brittany, but after a lot of gyrating and er ography, 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.360 she abandons her boustier for a pink polo shirt and 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.120 white skirt cardigan over her shoulders. She steps out the 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.520 front door into a perfectly manicured lawn where she's joined 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.200 by a country club husband and two kids. A swarm 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:32.000 of photographers rushes to them. This is good Brittany, Star Brittany, 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.360 the archetype of the All American dream. This tension has 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.959 been a cornerstone of Brittany's career and the story she 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.840 tells with her music. It's a story that goes all 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.560 the way back to Baby One More Time, the good 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.600 girl gone bad, the image of perfection shattered, the sexy 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.560 and liberating in between. But watching the if You Seek 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:57.200 Amy video, now I see another story too. Inside the house, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.720 with its shuttered windows and shadows, is a private space, 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.800 somewhere Brittany can be her uninhibited self to name and 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.120 explore her darker truths in the company of trusted others, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.240 before she steps out into the world and faces the 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.640 public with its prying eyes and camera flashes, though she 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.760 has to transform to put up an image of perfection. 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.320 A few months after If You Seek Amy was released 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.840 as a single. As it climbed the pop radio charts, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.800 Alex and I became friends. I have vivid memories of 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.120 us blasting it in his bedroom or driving down the 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.040 highways of Chicago windows down, the two of us going 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.560 wild as it boomed from the car speakers. In the 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.000 song itself, which is just one massive double entendre, Brittany 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.360 goes on a metaphorical search for a woman named Amy. 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.600 I can't get her off my brain, she sings. The 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.640 frenetic energy of the video and the song remind me 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.519 of my own search for Alice, the anonymous figure Alex 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.160 befriended in Brittany fan forums. I don't know how long 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.600 they talked or when they last did, but I do 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.920 know that he was still thinking about her in his 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.440 final days, enough to include audio files of them talking 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.480 in his otherwise short farewell email. How do you call? 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.560 Do you have like a like an happer road for? 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.919 I'm Chris Stedmand and this is unread episode three. If 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:29.600 you seek Alice? Tell them that all the little let's 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:55.280 still see I get Jesus. Yes, Can you teach me 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.000 how to be an investigative journalist in like the next 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:06.560 thirty minutes? That'd be super helpful. Yes, I can. In 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.600 that it's a job. That's not a job. I mean, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.160 all you have to do is be good at looking 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.920 for things? Okay here, I mean, anybody who lives on 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.719 the internet right now. It's probably decent at searching for stuff. 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.160 You can do it. That's my friend Carrie. We've known 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.720 each other for almost a decade. We met as speakers 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.720 at a skeptics convention, a gathering of people who share 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:36.240 interests like scientific skepticism, atheism, agnosticism, and just generally questioning things. 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.000 I was smoking in the hotel lobby. It was Las Vegas, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.559 and I was a little ship back then. When Carrie 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.400 and I started talking, she told me smoking was bad, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.680 So I signed my pack of Parliament lights for her 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.520 and wrote don't smoke on it. She still has that 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:55.080 pack on display in her apartment. Carry is an investigative journalist, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.280 an excellent one. She co hosts the podcast Oh No, 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.480 Ross and Carry, and holds a mask 's degree in 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.160 journalism from the University of Southern California. Do you have 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:08.480 a spoke Yo account? I don't. Okay, I do, and 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.599 it can be pretty good for reverse looking up phone 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:17.000 numbers and emails. Logging onto Spokyo is literally the most 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.760 beginners thing you can do when looking for a person. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.440 So the fact that I haven't even done that should 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.839 tell you where I'm starting. Fortunately, Carrie is no beginner. 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.599 Carry was also one of the first people I reached 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.640 out to in the moments after getting Alex's email. She 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.360 helped me process it and then we snapped into action, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.960 hoping there was still a window. First, she helped me 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.920 connect with the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline so that I 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.560 could arrange a wellness check at the most recent address 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.320 I had for Alex. As I was on the phone 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.280 with them, Carrie was digging away as she does, eventually 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.920 finding what we thought was his sister's phone number but 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.039 turned out to be his mom's. That was a hard call. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.280 I'm reaching out to Carry again because finding Alice feels impossible, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.640 and I don't know anyone who's found the unfindable more 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.640 often than she has. But to understand why this search 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.920 feels like such a shot in the dark in the 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.200 first place, you have to understand Alice's world. When I start, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.480 she's nothing but a fragmented voice that sounds like Brittney's 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.960 and a trail of Internet accounts that seem to no 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.800 longer exist. What I'm saying is to understand how to 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.800 find Alice, you have to understand the space from which 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.760 she emerged. The strange, ephemeral online world of a Brittney stand. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.320 If you've spent even a little time on social media, 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.880 you've almost certainly bumped into a stand. The term stand 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.120 often gets traced back to the Eminem song of the 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.680 same name about a diabolically obsessed fan. Today, it's used 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.279 to refer to an artist's most fervent devotes, people whose 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.680 very identities orient around their love of a star. You 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.160 can find them in the replies to every tweet about 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.640 a celebrity, especially a pop star, and probably half of 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.960 unrelated tweets too. Stream good Days Here they write in 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.760 all caps below every Scissor tweet with links to the 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.640 song on each streaming platform, Lana out sold. They reply 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.240 to a tweet about climate change or the death of 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:23.640 Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Stands are all over the Internet most 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.640 of the time. That's how they find one another and 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.920 where they do their good work. They also congregate in 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.680 more private spaces online enclaves of their own making, typically forums. 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.000 They're known for being zealous in both their adoration for 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.640 and defensiveness of their chosen artist. Perhaps the most notable 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.440 example can be found in the Barbs or Nicki Minaj 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.880 fans who I will never say an ill word about, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:49.920 both because I think her album Queen didn't get the 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.320 love it deserved and because I'd like to know peace. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.480 The barbs also exemplify something central to the stand phenomenon. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.640 Stand groups begin with a shared love for an artist, 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.800 but they become much more than a fan club. These 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:08.559 groups develop characteristics, language norms all their own. Barbs aren't 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:13.400 just nicky fans. Being a barb is a lifestyle. That's 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:18.240 because online stand groups are, at their core communities, places 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.320 where people find a sense of identity and language for 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.040 their experiences, where they cultivate a feeling of purpose and 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.600 coherence that helps them make sense of their world, almost 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.800 like a religion. It's no surprise, then, that these communities 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.119 often include more marginalized members of society. Queer people in particular. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.360 Stands build their own digital universes to inhabit refugees built 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:47.679 for and buy them. But these groups aren't bubbles. They 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.600 shape the culture around them too. The discourse surrounding Brittany 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.320 is a perfect example of this influence. Empathy toward her, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:09:00.640 once relegated to STAND spaces, now dominates the conversation. This 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.559 is true more indirectly too. The Britney references of today 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.640 are more playful than cruel, often framing her as a 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.120 stand in for all of us instead of a punch line. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.040 Whether it's a screenshot of an early career interview where 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.599 Britney says everyone's been doing emails, or a gift of 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.640 her turning around in the middle of a concert as 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.040 if she just noticed something. Hundreds of moments from Britney's 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.520 career have become well loved memes. Beyond these little flashes, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.079 a broader period of her life now serves as a 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.480 meme too. If Britney Spears survived two thousand seven, I 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.839 can survive today is a mantra for the times. But 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.480 the Britney memes of today are not just a result 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.240 of people mining the past. Her current Instagram output inspires 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:49.040 them too. People recreate videos of her doing fashion shows 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.360 down the hallway of her home, or post videos of 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.640 her twirling and making silly faces in front of the 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.880 camera with captions like what my ns A agent sees 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.199 through my webcam and don't even get me started it on. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.959 All the memes that were born when she casually mentioned 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.160 accidentally burning down her own gym in an Instagram video. 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.560 So many of these memes emerge in Britney stand spaces 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.840 and eventually shape our view of the world too. Yet, 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.079 even as stands define our online experience, there's so much 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.760 more going on in their communities than meets the eye. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.559 It's in this wonderland that I hope to find Alice. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.800 But first I have to go down the rabbit hole. Fortunately, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.360 I know just the rabbit. I don't know. How are 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.440 you a bottom? Like a child? I like like imajority things. 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.719 It's like when you watch a performance on television. You 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.160 just want to believe it's all real, even though it's not. 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.400 But I don't care. I don't want to know. I 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.079 want to have a fantasy. That's do it again. I 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.520 went to him to understand the culture of Brittany stand 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.920 hum a bit more and the relationships forged in it. 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.199 He starts by explaining why he got involved in the 0:10:55.280 --> 0:11:00.040 first place. I'm twenty three years old. I just it 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:05.559 out of my first and only straight relationship. Um, I'm 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.800 done with college and I'm back with my parents over 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.240 eating and I go online like that's my life, you know, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.760 purely online, And you know, since I don't have much 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.120 hobbies in my life. One of them is Britney Spears. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.840 I go and um, I had no idea that there's 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.920 a whole side dedicated to Britney Spears, which makes sense, 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.800 you know, like I'm from Greatia. For his first few 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.600 months on this Britney fan forum, he mostly just read 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.160 threads and kept up on Brittany news. Eventually he decided 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.160 to dive in, and he quickly found it was the 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.960 perfect outlet for his particular sense of humor. As soon 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.560 as he started ship posting, Do I found his match 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.600 in another poster who went by the name Ambient Hollow. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.760 That was Alex. He was morbid, he was fun. He 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.360 made fun of breaking, but not like you know, he 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.160 was comedian like that. And at one point we just 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.400 started talking and we went from the side, you know, 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:07.040 two emails. Once they moved their conversations off the forum, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.040 things turned more serious. Do I opened up to Alex 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.520 about his life. He's the first person that I came 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.959 out to as homosexual, which my son shuttled to some 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.880 people because I held like mustache and everything. But um, yeah, 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.280 I think I was late bloomer for a lot of things, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.120 and I certainly wasn't so it was like this person 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.839 that I could talk to for ours and Alex opened 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.959 up to do about his He's the first person that 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.160 I actually ever heard that was dealing with depression, and 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.360 I remember reading about it because I really wanted to 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.800 be like a good friend, even though like he's on 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:49.800 another continent. They would get lost in conversation, swept up 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.959 in the magic of finding a space where they could 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.480 beat themselves. Seriously. I would stay up lad until five 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.000 a m. In the morning because his time, and we 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.320 will just talk forever, and we would, you know, create 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.160 dis content on the forum. When they did, they weren't 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.520 just sharing a love of Brittany, but also building a 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:13.400 new world, their world together. I never met a person 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.079 in my environment that loves Britney Spears. So when I realized, 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.400 you know, he loves Brittany just as much as I do, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.520 and we can just take that love and build, you know, 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:29.079 imaginary topics, it was such a high stand. Communities are 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.360 little ecosystems, small universes, places that are not only built 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.800 around a star, but where new stars rise. Do It 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.839 and Alex, who both felt disempowered in other parts of 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.679 their lives, became celebrities in their own little corner of 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.079 the Brittany stand Um. You know, I don't want to 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.560 be this braggy guy, but we were really famous there. 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.640 Like I remember one time we got suspended and we 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.880 had people signing petitions to bring us back. It was fun. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.880 It was really great prodoite of my life, even though 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.000 I was just by myself in the room, but like 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.800 it was my body. One thing they bonded over was 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.199 lovingly teasing Brittany. That could get them in trouble. On 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.679 the forums, fans could be extremely defensive of her, and 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.080 for good reason, but sometimes they get mad at Alex 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.440 and do it even when they weren't making fun of her. Seriously, 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.000 like people discuss mental health and who better to discuss that, 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.520 you know, the NUS and people will report that because 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.400 they thought we are making fun of her. To be fair, though, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.720 do it and Alex would make fun of her too. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.680 They're not some anomaly though. This is a thing in 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:41.160 stand culture, something that from the outside might not make sense. Yes, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.800 Brittany Stands will destroy you if you say a single 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.120 bad word about her, But on the forums they call home, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.880 you will also find a sea of memes teasing Brittany 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.920 in fact, there's an entire genre of meme popular among 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.000 her stands based on a single unflattering photo of her, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.720 who they've named need. Even if you're not familiar with 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.360 it by name, you've probably seen the photo. It's the 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.480 one where Brittany is sitting in her booth and kind 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.360 of like looking really over it and like, well, just 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:16.640 look it up for yourself anyway. Tabloids might initially popularize 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.560 images like this, but stands are the reason they're seared 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.000 into a corner of your brain if you spend any 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.400 time online. For many stands, the teasing is just another 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.560 way of expressing love. I don't know how you are 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.360 with your family, but like I never really said my 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.040 sister like I love you or anything nice. You know, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.360 when you love somebody like that, you just poke fun 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:42.600 of it and all people will understand. This is also 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.680 a very queer thing. Here's former MTV b J Dave 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.960 Holmes again, who I reached out to for help understanding 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.720 Britney's connection to her queer fans in the early twenty 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:58.320 one century. Right, queer people are coming out earlier. The 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.720 Internet makes it easy for you to find your tribe 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:08.200 at and also there is we have to acknowledge that 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.360 there is a queer gaze. You know, there is a 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:17.200 There is a gay man's way of loving, particularly a 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:25.720 diva that is part adoration and is also part making fun. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.760 The love comes with with a crack with a devastating comment. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.640 While once kept to more marginal spaces, stand culture and 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.600 queer culture at large has helped poort this phenomenon to 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.440 the mainstream. Today, we playfully drag those we love most, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.320 our favorite celebrities, but also one another, while protecting each 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:53.400 other's humanity when a real attack comes. The demand to 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.040 honor Britney's dignity first gained major notice with Chris Crocker's 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.560 iconic leave Brittany Alone rallying cry. Her song is called 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.760 give me More for a reason, because all you people 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.280 want is more and more and more and more and 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:12.240 more alone. Crocker may have been roundly mocked at the time, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.440 but that cry is actually what got me to start 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.119 paying attention to her humanity. While many of us were 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.199 late to Crocker's party, a lot of people are there now. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.000 For many attendees, though, especially the most ardent ones, it's 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.920 not just about Britney's dignity but also their own. I 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.800 think gay men are still reflectively used to indirect representation, 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:40.720 like you're still all all boys are taught to stifle 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.440 their emotions and push their feelings down and never be 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.080 sad and never be vulnerable. You've got to stuff all 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.080 that ship down. And so where fifty years ago gay 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:57.879 men were attracted to over the top actresses because that 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.320 was like a way to launder emotion and it was 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.840 like you can you can. I can't have my emotions, 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.439 but you can have them for me and I can 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.280 like kind of feel it along with you. I think 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.440 she was a little bit that for young gay men. 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:15.040 I don't think I understood the depth of people's connection 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.359 and devotion too and with her like until I started 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.040 seeing the Free Brittany movement. And it's really it is 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:32.680 felt very deeply the Brittany fan forums where Alex and 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.119 Dummett were a profoundly tight knit world. But the fans 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.040 in these forums weren't just posting. Sometimes they would meet 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.080 in a tiny chat voice chat rooms that were popular 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.640 among some message board users in the early to talk 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.000 over audio instead of just through text. It's in one 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.600 of these audio group chats where a user popped up 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.399 one day who shook their entire world. I remember, like, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.200 you know, you would go to tiny Chet because you 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.960 were like, you just wanted to spend some time. And 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.920 at the time, this girl she would come in and 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.200 she sounded exactly like Britney would. And the thing that 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.280 really was fun. She never claimed to be Brittany, which 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.400 only gave her credit to be Brittany. She would come 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.560 in and she would just talk random everyday stuff. She 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.680 would love as Brittany. She would be as Brittany, you 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:28.399 know everything signature she would do it. My Twitter. My 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.840 Twitter is Banana Alan and I created it today and 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:42.080 um banana Alice. No, okay, it's it's like this, where 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:49.240 can you personal a little chat thing like down here? Yeah? No, 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.080 it's my person already. Oh oh it's you let it go. 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.560 Five followers. I was one of the I'm one of 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.120 those followers. I Alice, if you're my most bite song 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.200 of all time is Piece of Me with thirty plays 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:12.399 True Life. Wow. And so the audiences with Alice began. 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.800 They'd talk about mundane things like cooking. I like to cook. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.440 Probably have a favorite recipe, that's fine, Do you do 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.000 you have a favorite recipe? No? I don't have a 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.399 favorite recipe or anything, but I like making most sad Ya. 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.719 What kind of jobs she should get? You have such 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:31.760 a sweet voice. You should be like a telemarketer or something. 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.520 Oh yeah, she should be. I'm calling from you know, 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.720 and I'm trying to solve it. The music she was 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.160 listening to, do you have any foundations for new music house? Um, 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.919 I don't know. I really like this guy named Ron Pope. 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.479 He's really cool. He's like he's a guy from New 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:58.000 York and he's um. I like him alive. She'd even 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.040 get a bit maternal with them in moments, telling overly 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.440 excited stands to go to bed. No, I didn't sleep 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.360 at all. I haven't shot at all. Oh my god, 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:15.280 Oh my god. Bed no way. At first it was 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.800 an exclusive club. The first couple of times she were there, 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.399 there wasn't that many people on tiny chat. It was 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.200 like fifteen people or something. But then lower about this 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:30.080 mysterious figure started to spread and stands with joint tiny 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.800 chats in the hope of holding court with this uncanny 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.480 Britney sound alike. She was almost like a mirage there 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.119 for a moment, then just as quickly back into the 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.919 shadows and then she kind of stopped, you know, shumming up, 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:49.520 but she didn't vanish completely. Alice liked a talked to 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:54.760 Alex outside of the tiny chats. I remember Alex telling 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.440 me that she once had talked with her and then 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.399 actually it was like this depressed person as well. He 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:05.200 never talked to Alice one on one, but do says 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.880 Alex told him they bonded over mental health. He has 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.119 no idea if their connection went beyond the one conversation 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:16.480 Alex mentioned to him, though it's been almost a decade 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.520 since those Alice tiny chats. I asked to do it 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.600 if you had any thoughts about where I might look 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.320 for her now, if I was trying to find more 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.520 information about Alice online or like some of the other 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.359 people who were in the chat with you and Alice 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.640 and Alice pertly know how you can because tiny chat 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.280 is not the then side, and I think majority of 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.439 those accounts are either bent or gone. Yeah, they were 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:46.800 all anonymous, and so you know that's the problem. It 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.520 is the problem, which is why I need to go 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:51.960 back to Carry, who I hope can help me cut 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.320 through the fantasy and figure out how I might actually 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.520 find this person. My first issue is a big one. 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.240 I don't have much to go on. I don't even 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.560 know if Alice is this person's actual name. Well, that's 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.600 tougher because you're not starting with their name. You're not 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.960 actually finding the person. You're finding the name first, right, 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.440 So we begin going through what little I do have. 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.840 We start with the texts between Alex and Alice. As 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.400 I tell Carrie about them, I noticed that a couple 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.080 have a kind of signature at the end these text messages. 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.560 There's really not much there except that one of the 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.840 messages um Alex said to Alice, Oh my god, I 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.879 want to taco so bad hashtag deep and then she 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.880 replied why don't you go to Taco Bell question mark 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:44.359 via mo plus and then afterwards in parentheses H T 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.840 T P colon slash slash m O P L dot 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:53.320 us and I've I've never heard of this mo plus before. Yeah, 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.400 what's that might be something to look into, I guess. 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.040 Oh yeah, definitely a mo plus. It the best calling 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:07.840 up available, Chris says its website. So this person was 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:12.800 using some calling app. Yeah. That's kind of interesting though, 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:14.680 because that seems like a way you would sort of 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:21.080 cloak your identity. Carrie looks around on their website. You 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:23.800 could try I do this stuff all the time, like 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.880 sending an email, just to really try to be extremely 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:29.520 casual about it before they can get their defenses up. 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.760 You might be able to get something that way. Yeah. No, 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.639 I'll definitely try reaching out to them. See look, I'm 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:39.440 talking to you, and I've already I'm already much further 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:44.160 than I was before. Next, we pour over the audiophiles 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.600 Alex sent Carry uses headphones to listen while I poke 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:51.000 around for more Alice info online. Every now and then 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.600 I hear Carry laugh, and each time I guess which 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.040 part in the audio she's at. As she listens, Carrie 0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:59.320 jots down user names she hears other people in the 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:01.800 tiny chat share as they discuss who's in the room. 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:06.159 She points out that people often use different versions of 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:08.560 the same handle for a bunch of services. So I 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.160