Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show everyone, and Happy Halloween. Yes,
Speaker 1: Happy Hallows Eve. I'm Eli, I'm Diana, and we're so
Speaker 1: thrilled to have you today. Thrilled and I love it.
Speaker 1: That's what we need more of. We're positively, uh positively
Speaker 1: we we've got a scallo a ton of excitement for
Speaker 1: having you. That's not good at all. You can see why. Well,
Speaker 1: they're just also cliche. I know it's pretty cheesy, hauns.
Speaker 1: It's hard to be fresh, you know, it's true, it's
Speaker 1: hard to be flesh or like it. Very excited for
Speaker 1: this special Halloween episode. Extra spookiness in store today Because
Speaker 1: if you know about Ed and Lorraine Warren, chances are
Speaker 1: you've heard about them from the Conjuring movies by James
Speaker 1: Juan starring Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson. But these two
Speaker 1: are in fact real people. There are a married couple
Speaker 1: of paranormal investigators with their own spooky back stories because
Speaker 1: after becoming the pre eminent paranormal power couple of their day,
Speaker 1: they were at the center of some of the world's
Speaker 1: most well known supernatural mysteries like the Amityville Horror, Annabelle
Speaker 1: the Doll, and the parent family Haunting, which is the
Speaker 1: story on which the Conjuring was based. Now, obviously they're
Speaker 1: terrifying tales have been called into question by skeptics. But
Speaker 1: more shockingly, some truly dark claims have been made about
Speaker 1: Ed's behavior and the Warren's loving marriage, and this led
Speaker 1: to a Hollywood lawsuit and possibly a billion dollar cover up.
Speaker 1: So let's hear the hauntingly strange tale of Ed and
Speaker 1: Lorraine Warren and their battle against demons and spirits from
Speaker 1: Beyond the Graves. So ready, let's gohost hater friends from listen.
Speaker 1: Let say you're welcome to Hell. There's no matchmaking, romantic tips.
Speaker 1: It's just an old coops as you are lying in crypts,
Speaker 1: I love my deary type of Monstroul ghost to a
Speaker 1: demonico that if there's a spirit with a second chance,
Speaker 1: we'll put it it off. Show Recruitulous rolls a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. So much of this comes from
Speaker 1: a book called The Demonologists by Gerald Brittle, and this
Speaker 1: came out in nineteen eighty and it is the central
Speaker 1: biography about Ed and Lorraine's life. But remember this author,
Speaker 1: Gerald Brittle, because he's coming back later. Ed Warren was
Speaker 1: born at September of nineteen twenty six in Connecticut, and
Speaker 1: he was only five years old when he first started
Speaker 1: to sense the supernatural. See, their old landlady lived in
Speaker 1: their building, and she would sit at her window and
Speaker 1: she would wait for people to walk by and do
Speaker 1: something that she didn't like. She hated children, she hated dogs,
Speaker 1: hated people in general. It sounds like, and when someone
Speaker 1: did something she disapproved of, she would come rushing out
Speaker 1: of the house and screaming like some kind of banshee. Haunting,
Speaker 1: truly haunting, truly haunting. There was a woman like that
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood when I was a kid growing up.
Speaker 1: She had spray painted no she had hand painted on
Speaker 1: her sidewalk. She she repaved her driveway like every other week,
Speaker 1: total new fresh black asphalt. This isn't a small town like,
Speaker 1: it was not a big driveway. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the deal was. And she painted white lines along where
Speaker 1: the sidewalk is and put like ropes up so you
Speaker 1: couldn't go beyond them. And I will never forget. She
Speaker 1: wrote on the sidewalk, no bicks on walk b I
Speaker 1: k s on both sides, and then later she added
Speaker 1: or dogs and so of course the children of the
Speaker 1: neighborhood would go skid mark all over her driveway with
Speaker 1: their bikes because they thought that was hilarious. Ski marks probably. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever happened that all, lady, but she
Speaker 1: was pretty mean. I mean, it's so much work. Whatever
Speaker 1: bikes damage, Oh my god, whatever damage the bikes are doing.
Speaker 1: I can't be worse than no bicks on walk terrible.
Speaker 1: So Ed grew up with a similar woman as his landlord,
Speaker 1: real cranky, but after she died about a year later,
Speaker 1: Ed was upstairs in the same house just as the
Speaker 1: sun was setting in the darkening attic. The closet door
Speaker 1: before him started to open, and in the shadows of
Speaker 1: the closet he saw a small ball of light hovering
Speaker 1: in the air. It started to grow, and in just
Speaker 1: a few seconds it had stretched and grown to the
Speaker 1: length of a human, and then in an instant it
Speaker 1: took the form of his landlady. She was semi transparent
Speaker 1: and wore a drabbed shroud over her head. She scowled
Speaker 1: at Ed, just as he remembered her always looking, and
Speaker 1: then she vanished. H I guess the not scary part
Speaker 1: is that the landlady vanished, Yeah right, yeah, I've got
Speaker 1: a lot of people would even right around rent time.
Speaker 1: So Ed told his father, a local policeman, about this,
Speaker 1: but his father told him to forget it and to
Speaker 1: never talk about it. Ed said, quote, well, I never
Speaker 1: told anyone, but I also never forgot what I saw.
Speaker 1: This reminds me of David Huggins when he saw aliens
Speaker 1: as a kid in our episode where the artist fell
Speaker 1: in love with that alien and made the tarl his life.
Speaker 1: And he went and told his dad, I think like
Speaker 1: I saw an alien, and his dad was like, you
Speaker 1: shut your mouth and never talked about that again. I'll
Speaker 1: take your straight to alone. Even so, Ed grew up Catholic,
Speaker 1: and he had a strange fascination with St. Michael. Before
Speaker 1: he even knew who Saint Michael was, he would stare
Speaker 1: at a stained glass depiction of him and fascination. His
Speaker 1: priests and nuns taught his classes about demons and angels
Speaker 1: and spirits and devils, and as Ed experienced more strange
Speaker 1: apparitions and hauntings in his home, he took these lessons
Speaker 1: to heart. He later learned more about St. Michael, who
Speaker 1: was the archangel who drove Lucifer from Heaven, the patron
Speaker 1: saint of the Exorcists. I'm sorry, are you hearing that
Speaker 1: in your headphones? It's just like a weird h yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know or something. Um, yes, no, it's no,
Speaker 1: it's probably just the wires. Uh. Oh, no, it's gone.
Speaker 1: It's gone. Okay, alright, sorry anyway. Uh. Meanwhile, just a
Speaker 1: few blocks from ed lived a young girl named Lorraine
Speaker 1: Morin born in January. Her family was also Irish Catholic,
Speaker 1: and Lorraine was a bright young girl with a special ability, clairvoyance.
Speaker 1: Lorraine could see beyond physical space and time that most
Speaker 1: of us are bound by, and on Arbor Day of
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, Lorraine's school was planting a new tree.
Speaker 1: Just as the sapling hit the earth, Lorraine saw a full,
Speaker 1: massive tree in front of her. She looked up to
Speaker 1: its stretching branches and saw leaves blowing in the wind,
Speaker 1: and one of the nuns asked her what she was
Speaker 1: looking up. What the hell are you looking up at?
Speaker 1: It's nothing up there, It's a small tree, and Lorraine said,
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at the tree, and the nun looks
Speaker 1: down at her and says um, Lorraine, are you seeing
Speaker 1: into the future, And Lorraine replied, quote, yes, I guess
Speaker 1: I am sorry weird jumped to immediately take alright, alright,
Speaker 1: it's fine, it's right, Mr Mary Katherine or whatever, it's right.
Speaker 1: You know, these Catholic duns, they don't really like cancers
Speaker 1: that they aren't expecting. So Lorraine was immediately sent off
Speaker 1: to a retreat home where she wasn't allowed to play
Speaker 1: or do anything really, she just had to sit and
Speaker 1: pray all day long. And she told Brittle quote after that,
Speaker 1: I kept my mouth shut. Uh oh, what I right? Terrible.
Speaker 1: I keep my little future trees to myself. But it
Speaker 1: would be so weird if a kids like, I'm having
Speaker 1: an imaginative daydream and someone was immediately like, you're looking
Speaker 1: into the future. So Lorraine's abilities were psychic, but she
Speaker 1: didn't see ghosts or experience hauntings. Meanwhile, Ed was seeing
Speaker 1: spirits and supernatural happenings all around him, but never had
Speaker 1: any psychic abilities of his own. According to New York Times,
Speaker 1: they met when they were about sixteen, when Lorraine went
Speaker 1: to see a James Cagney movie with some friends. James
Speaker 1: Cagney amazing James Cagney. Ed was working at the theater
Speaker 1: as an usher in an adorable meat cute. Undoubtedly, he
Speaker 1: ripped her ticket and was like, hey girl. She was like,
Speaker 1: I'm having a psychic premonition you're the one for me. Anyway,
Speaker 1: they met somehow and started dating, and Lorraine told Entertainment
Speaker 1: Weekly that on their first date she thought, quote, I'll
Speaker 1: spend the rest of my life with that man. I
Speaker 1: guess she did have a premonish. I guess so she did.
Speaker 1: She's like, I see, I see the two of us
Speaker 1: dancing around that big tree over there, and they're like,
Speaker 1: but that's just a sapling, not for long. What wonders
Speaker 1: are coming. Although it's not exactly the most amazing depiction
Speaker 1: of someone predicting the future for them to look at
Speaker 1: a small tree and say, one day that'll be big,
Speaker 1: clearly possessed by the devil. One day all of you
Speaker 1: will die. So Lorraine had her premonition that they were
Speaker 1: meant to be together and would be together forever. But
Speaker 1: it was ninety four and soon Ed was off fighting
Speaker 1: in the Navy in World War Two. Just a few
Speaker 1: months into his service, he was on a ship which
Speaker 1: collided with an oil tanker in the North Atlanta. There
Speaker 1: was a huge explosion and everyone on board had to
Speaker 1: jump into the icy waters. Ed prayed for help and
Speaker 1: soon he was rescued. He returned home and immediately asked
Speaker 1: Lorraine to marry him. While he was on leave in
Speaker 1: they held their wedding. Now they're only child, Judy, She
Speaker 1: was already six months old. By the time that Ed
Speaker 1: finally came home for good. It was the first time
Speaker 1: that he had even met his daughter, and the couple
Speaker 1: knew it's time to get their career started, so they
Speaker 1: started putting their respective talents to work, hoping that they
Speaker 1: would become famous as painters. Yeah, both of them were
Speaker 1: skilled in landscape paintings, and they always thought they'd make
Speaker 1: their living as artists. But you know, you can't just
Speaker 1: be a landscape artist. They're a dime a dozen, right,
Speaker 1: and they needed more than a dime. It's not a
Speaker 1: very good payback on your paintings. A dime a dozen,
Speaker 1: it's not good. So they needed a hook to stand out,
Speaker 1: so they turned into their individual fascinations with the paranormal.
Speaker 1: They would find reports of haunted houses in the area
Speaker 1: from newspapers and then they drive out to the site
Speaker 1: and Ed would sit outside and do a full sketch
Speaker 1: of the house. Lorraine told Brittle in the book that
Speaker 1: the owners of the house would always be peeking out
Speaker 1: the windows, wondering who these kids were in their yard
Speaker 1: and what they were doing. But she would go up
Speaker 1: knock on the door, show them ed sketch, and offer
Speaker 1: it in exchange for the information about the haunting. Then,
Speaker 1: she said, quote, if the story was engrossing enough, we'd
Speaker 1: paint up the house for our collection and sell it
Speaker 1: later at an art show. It was pretty cool to
Speaker 1: be like, we're our art show is all haunted houses
Speaker 1: from the area. You know, Yeah, I guess. I mean
Speaker 1: that would make it more you know, you definitely look
Speaker 1: I guess closer. They put little ghosts in the windows,
Speaker 1: dead trees in the yards, right. I guess they're lucky
Speaker 1: that they never knocked on the door and found a
Speaker 1: landlady like, yeah, they may have. I guess while he's sketched,
Speaker 1: she's like, I get the hell out of here. No,
Speaker 1: nois now. They spent about five years traveling the US
Speaker 1: and painting houses, and their daughter Judy, stayed in Connecticut
Speaker 1: with Lorraine's mother Georgiana. She also went to a Catholic school,
Speaker 1: and in the USA Today interview, Judy said she didn't
Speaker 1: really know what her parents did for her living until
Speaker 1: later on in life. And meanwhile, Ed was reading every
Speaker 1: book there was on the supernatural, sort of beginning his
Speaker 1: field research on the subject. Yeah. He in fact, he
Speaker 1: would sometimes correct those books and more. Yeah, because he said,
Speaker 1: you know, he had so much personal experience. He just
Speaker 1: knew what was right and wrong. Sometimes we Lorraine was
Speaker 1: often skeptical, and in fact, many of these so called
Speaker 1: haunted houses that they visited, Ed and Lorraine would discover
Speaker 1: that there was a perfectly normal explanation for the residents
Speaker 1: scares like leaky pipes or rotting wood, whatever, the house
Speaker 1: is settling, whatever, it's a draft. Yeah, it's just it's
Speaker 1: a draft, no bige. But occasionally the warrants would find
Speaker 1: something remarkable, sometimes even terrible, lurking within these haunted houses.
Speaker 1: Ed explains how a spirit manifests in Brittle's book and
Speaker 1: says that while people tend to think that ghosts are
Speaker 1: hovering around in spidery attics, wooing and booing, they're actually
Speaker 1: really tough to see what the naked eye, and they
Speaker 1: require some really specific conditions, he says. Quote, when an
Speaker 1: earth bound spirit needs a human presence to manifest, it
Speaker 1: engages in a complex process of energy transference to give
Speaker 1: itself substance. That energy, he says, is the human aura.
Speaker 1: He says, there is a three layer aura around every person,
Speaker 1: and clairvoyance like Lorraine can actually see and read this
Speaker 1: aura as conspirits. Now, some people's auras actually repel spirits,
Speaker 1: but others will tracked them. Maybe that's my problem. I
Speaker 1: aora repels spirits. Yeah, and that's why I've never had
Speaker 1: an experience myself. I have often said that you have
Speaker 1: a very repelling aura. All right, wow, at least to
Speaker 1: stow my personal smell. No, you've got a lovely smell.
Speaker 1: It's just that sends people running, spirits, spirits running, and
Speaker 1: some people you're like the most inviting person. I know.
Speaker 1: It's all right. Lorraine says that under the right conditions,
Speaker 1: a spirit may try to get your attention with a
Speaker 1: projected sound like breaking glass or maybe slamming a door shut.
Speaker 1: An eerie feeling comes over you, and you may see
Speaker 1: two small glowing orbs of light. You may see streaks
Speaker 1: of light flashing away from your body, which is quote
Speaker 1: electromagnetic energy being drawn from your aura. Soon the orbs merge, elongate,
Speaker 1: and eventually takes something close to a human form. Now,
Speaker 1: if the form is a ghost, it has no recognizable
Speaker 1: human features, it's full on sheet with eyes. But if
Speaker 1: it's recognizably a person, then it's called an apparition. There
Speaker 1: are other ways that ghosts and apparitions can manifest, and
Speaker 1: Ed says they're gruesome. Appearance quote entirely depends on how
Speaker 1: that particular spirit determines to project itself. So the spirit
Speaker 1: sort of decides what it's going to look like through
Speaker 1: its own sort of mood and energy. If a spirit
Speaker 1: had died violently in life, then the person's last thoughts
Speaker 1: can become central to the apparitions projection and quote. Thus
Speaker 1: the ghost will manifest as a grotesque spectacle representative of
Speaker 1: the manner in which it died. So like nearly Headless
Speaker 1: nick right, So like or I'm thinking of the Frighteners.
Speaker 1: Such a good movie, and the she McBride plays that
Speaker 1: character who's so mad that he died in the seventies,
Speaker 1: and he's wearing like a disco suit and he's like,
Speaker 1: I look like this forever. This sucks. Now Ed and
Speaker 1: Lorraine say that spirits can indeed harm living people, sometimes physically,
Speaker 1: like inflicting illness. And I'm thinking about our story last
Speaker 1: year about Amanda large Tige who married that pirate ghost
Speaker 1: and she started to get really sick and learned that
Speaker 1: it was sucking energy from her to get more powerful. Right, Um,
Speaker 1: Spirits can also just inflict random pains with no medical explanation.
Speaker 1: And now I'm thinking of my own self every day
Speaker 1: of my life. It's spirit. It's not that I sit
Speaker 1: all day and never stretch her exercise, it's ghosties. Uh.
Speaker 1: Spirits can also harm humans psychologically. They can inflict crippling depression,
Speaker 1: They can cause insomnia. They can even cause addictive tendencies
Speaker 1: or even inflicting suicidal feelings. Yeah, the more homes they visited,
Speaker 1: the more in demand ed in the rain became. Now
Speaker 1: people were calling them to come and investigate their homes,
Speaker 1: and they use their combined abilities to uncover the truth
Speaker 1: of these ghostly visits. Their expertise and unique talents led
Speaker 1: to rising fame and eventually their involvement in some of
Speaker 1: the most well known paranormal cases in American historical. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm still hearing this weird noise. I don't hear getting it.
Speaker 1: You're hearing that in your headphones, right, yeah? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean everything's connected. Okay, maybe you need to reboot
Speaker 1: your headphones went on. Well, yeah, I'll reboot the whole system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll we'll figure out what this problem is and
Speaker 1: be You're right back with the rest of the story. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: and uh it sounds good. It sounds good. Yea great,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show, everybody. Alright. So, in ninety
Speaker 1: two Ed and Lorraine Warrant founded the New England Society
Speaker 1: for Psychic Research, and soon after that opened the Occult
Speaker 1: Museum in their home in Connecticut. The Warrants were in
Speaker 1: high demand to investigate paranormal activity in homes across the country.
Speaker 1: They were thorough, they got results, and best of all,
Speaker 1: they were free. Oh now that's that's a selling point.
Speaker 1: I'll buy anything for free. Ed and Lorraine agreed to
Speaker 1: never charge for their investigations. Instead, they made a killing
Speaker 1: on college lecture tours, book deals, and media appearances. A
Speaker 1: regular people called them all the time. They're like Ed
Speaker 1: and Lorraine, help, there's a go limb in my garage. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a monster under my bed, there's a
Speaker 1: there's a freaking my sheets, there's a there's a genie
Speaker 1: in my beanie. Oh no, there's a gin in my bin.
Speaker 1: It's probably the more correct way to say that. Hello,
Speaker 1: Ed and Lorraine. I'm at a party and there's a
Speaker 1: ghost of my host. I don't know why they all rhyme,
Speaker 1: but they do. Okay, spirits love to rhyme, except the tail.
Speaker 1: But sometimes they got a call from a priest, and
Speaker 1: that's when they knew it was serious business. This is
Speaker 1: how they were brought into the first of their most
Speaker 1: famous cases. Annabelle, my god, are you serious? Uh? Hang on,
Speaker 1: I'm sec hang out. Okay, I thought we fixed this,
Speaker 1: you know. Actually, while we're paused, it's really cold in here.
Speaker 1: Do you think I don't know? Yeah, no, no, I gotta,
Speaker 1: I gotta. I can do it from the phone on
Speaker 1: our new our new plane instead. Okay, heat up and
Speaker 1: the sound stopped. Okay, all right, sorry anyway, Annabelle. Yes,
Speaker 1: you've all heard of this movie, at least if not
Speaker 1: seen it. I'll say that we have not seen it.
Speaker 1: We haven't seen the conjuring either maybe we should watch
Speaker 1: that tonight, none of these films. No, we don't watch
Speaker 1: a lot of scary movies. I know that's my fault,
Speaker 1: but to get over it, well, it's your fault, and
Speaker 1: I don't care enough to push you for him about
Speaker 1: most scary movies. Do you know what I was thinking
Speaker 1: about this today? You know what I don't like? I
Speaker 1: don't like injuries. Uh yeah, I'll like. I don't mind
Speaker 1: a ghost movie. Like we watched The Witch and I'm
Speaker 1: mad at myself for not watching that when he came
Speaker 1: out because it's it was really good. It was really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really good. But I don't like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's not true because I really like Hostile. I
Speaker 1: love dream um, you know, but I don't know something something.
Speaker 1: I just don't like watching people's bodies get mutilated often. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, I find that to be a great quality.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you well regardless, I don't know what
Speaker 1: the Annabelle movie is like. But the real story of Annabelle,
Speaker 1: according to Lorraine Warren in Brittle's book, is a bit
Speaker 1: different than the movie. This is a very condensed summary
Speaker 1: I'm going to give here But in late nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: a young single woman named Donna was gifted a Raggedy
Speaker 1: Ann doll by her mother for her twenty four birthday,
Speaker 1: just just a piece of decoration for her house. Well,
Speaker 1: she put it on her couch, but the doll began
Speaker 1: to move around, like when Donna and her roommate Angie,
Speaker 1: who were both nurses, would come home from work, the
Speaker 1: doll would just be in different rooms or in different
Speaker 1: positions than she had left it. One time, the Raggedy
Speaker 1: Ann doll even had blood dripping from her hands. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the girls got a little freaked out, so they
Speaker 1: got in touch with a medium, suspecting there might be
Speaker 1: something supernatural going on. The medium came and tried to
Speaker 1: uncover what she could about the spirit. During a seance,
Speaker 1: she received a message. Hi, I'm Annabelle. I'm just seven
Speaker 1: years old. But a long time ago, before these apartments
Speaker 1: were here, I died and everyone around here now is
Speaker 1: a grown up. That's why I moved the doll around
Speaker 1: so much. But I like you too. I just want
Speaker 1: to be loved. Is it okay my stay with you
Speaker 1: and move into the doll. Well, the girls were moved
Speaker 1: by her story, so they told her yes, she was
Speaker 1: welcome to stay, but a short time after that things
Speaker 1: got a a worse. Angie's boyfriend Lou, woke up from
Speaker 1: a nap one time and the doll was strangling him.
Speaker 1: Another time, Lou and Angie were alone together when they
Speaker 1: heard sounds from Donna's room that sounded like someone had
Speaker 1: broken in. Lou went to investigate and saw the Annabel
Speaker 1: doll tossed randomly on the floor. He moved into the room,
Speaker 1: but as he approached the doll, he got the distinct
Speaker 1: and eerie feeling that someone was behind him. He spun
Speaker 1: around quickly and saw nothing. Then Lou screamed and grabbed
Speaker 1: his chest. He fell to the ground, and she ran
Speaker 1: into the room and found Lou covered in blood. He
Speaker 1: had been slashed seven times across the chest, three vertical
Speaker 1: and four horizontal. He said the cuts were hot, like burns,
Speaker 1: but that he Within a day, the girls decided it
Speaker 1: was time to call a priest, and after investigating himself,
Speaker 1: he decided to call the warrants. Well Ed basically told
Speaker 1: them y'all fucked up, which, honestly, they could have called
Speaker 1: me and I would the same honestly, like weird spirit
Speaker 1: is like Annabelle, I can I move into your doll?
Speaker 1: Get the funk out of my house? Absolutely nice into
Speaker 1: a doll if someone's like Ghostbusters, Like, if a spirit
Speaker 1: asks you what they can move into your doll, you
Speaker 1: say no. So Ed said what we're all thinking, And
Speaker 1: he's like, first of all, you shouldn't have paid this
Speaker 1: weird doll so much attention. You gave it a lot
Speaker 1: of power. So I guess the dolls moving around your
Speaker 1: house and it's advice to me to just ignore it,
Speaker 1: order get rid of it, or just get rid of
Speaker 1: the Okay, I mean that sounds like what I would
Speaker 1: do right. Secondly, he says, you called in a medium
Speaker 1: and just let this spirit tell you some slap dash
Speaker 1: story about a dead girl, and you believed it didn't
Speaker 1: have any questions or anything, which is like, hello, oh
Speaker 1: my god. If you say so ghost, no, absolutely come on,
Speaker 1: I mean anyway, Sorry, getting worked up, he said, quote,
Speaker 1: there is no Annabelle, there never was. You were duped.
Speaker 1: He said, there's definitely a spirit involved. But they wasn't
Speaker 1: no little girl ghost. This was the work of a demon.
Speaker 1: Now Ed got some priests in there to run an
Speaker 1: exorcism on the house. One thing that is different from
Speaker 1: the movies is that Ed and Lorraine did not perform
Speaker 1: exorcisms themselves. Only clergy can perform exorcism. Don't let your
Speaker 1: neighbor do it, it has to be a clergy. Ed
Speaker 1: was a demonologist, and in fact he was the first
Speaker 1: uh lay person, non clergy person to be recognized as
Speaker 1: a demonologist by the church. Yeah yeah, but yes, but
Speaker 1: he was like, no exorcisms, you have to be a
Speaker 1: priest now. Rather than expunging the house of evil, this
Speaker 1: exorcism was all about filling the house with good and God,
Speaker 1: which I guess would make it just an uncomfortable environment
Speaker 1: for a demon toil. That makes sense to me. And
Speaker 1: the warrants took the Annabelle doll with them to be
Speaker 1: displayed in their museum, and they placed it in a
Speaker 1: glass case with a sign saying quote warning positively, do
Speaker 1: not open. There's still some dark energy in that dolls.
Speaker 1: You want to play with me? I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: so you sound real lonely. I really don't want to
Speaker 1: play with I'll just take her out for a second.
Speaker 1: What harm could it do? No? He lies desceptible. No.
Speaker 1: Lorraine said that on the drive home. She told Ed,
Speaker 1: don't take the highway while we've got this doll in
Speaker 1: this beck seat, because it's going to be a tough
Speaker 1: drive home. And they said that they indeed had to
Speaker 1: at one point douset the doll in holy Water because
Speaker 1: it was acting up too much. Acting up? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was he doing? Put it in our house. Picture in
Speaker 1: Ed driving got a raggedy Ann drabbing his head from behind.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, they did change the dolls in the
Speaker 1: movie to a much creepier doll than a raggedy Ann,
Speaker 1: because that is kind of hilarious. So scary doll acting
Speaker 1: like that is pretty flat faced button, nice doll. It
Speaker 1: would be so funny. You could change nothing else about
Speaker 1: the movie and it would be a comedy, classic horror
Speaker 1: comedy class. Somebody do that. Somebody recut that trailer. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Ed and Lorraine worked many other major k is
Speaker 1: like we've mentioned earlier, like Amityville and all these things,
Speaker 1: But the one a lot of horror movie fans are
Speaker 1: most familiar with referenced earlier is the conjuring this is
Speaker 1: the story of the parent family. Now this movie is
Speaker 1: apparently much more close to the true story Lorraine actually
Speaker 1: worked as a consultant on the project. She even has
Speaker 1: a cameo role in the movie, and she insisted that
Speaker 1: the producers didn't take any more creative liberties than they
Speaker 1: absolutely needed to. It's mostly very close to true life.
Speaker 1: Lorraine also told USA Today, quote the things that went
Speaker 1: on in there were just so incredibly frightening. It still
Speaker 1: affects me to talk about it today. Now, this is
Speaker 1: the story of Caroline and Roger Parrin and their five
Speaker 1: daughters who moved into a farmhouse in Harrisville, Rhode Island.
Speaker 1: But there were spirits who already had an attachment to
Speaker 1: this property. Most of these spirits that visited the daughters especially,
Speaker 1: were harmless, but some were angry. Caroline was tormented the most.
Speaker 1: The first visitation she ever received was at five o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning. She woke up and she saw what
Speaker 1: she called the most frightening thing she'd ever seen in
Speaker 1: her life. Quote. It was a very tall woman. Her
Speaker 1: head was like a sack of cobwebs with little ten
Speaker 1: drils of hair hanging out. All right, don't need to
Speaker 1: sleep tonight, you. Caroline learned that the home had been
Speaker 1: in the same family for eight generations, and many of
Speaker 1: those who lived there died under mysterious or horrible circumstances.
Speaker 1: The worst of these was Bathsheba, who saw herself as
Speaker 1: the matriarch of the house and she saw Caroline as competition.
Speaker 1: The real Bathsheba lived in the house in the mid
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and was rumored to have been a Satanist
Speaker 1: and potentially a murderer. According to all That's Interesting dot com,
Speaker 1: the home would smell like rotting flesh. Beds would levitate
Speaker 1: and hover above the ground. While the family avoided the
Speaker 1: basement as much as they could, their heating equipment would
Speaker 1: mysteriously fail, and Roger would have to go downstairs, where
Speaker 1: he said he felt quote a cold stinking presence behind me.
Speaker 1: Every basement I go in, I feel that it's really
Speaker 1: deep seated. From home alone. When he went and the
Speaker 1: radiator laughed at him, that is legit for me. I
Speaker 1: think most kids feel that, especially have an unfinished basement. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which I I did growing up. But you know what,
Speaker 1: Home alone also gave me the courage to laugh at it.
Speaker 1: That's right. He appreciated that he's a man now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I kind of thought that I was, like you
Speaker 1: know what. I'm just gonna tell that noise to shut
Speaker 1: up that I'm tough. I'm tough. Sometimes that worked, scared
Speaker 1: it still works today. Sometimes it doesn't now. The warrants
Speaker 1: made multiple trips over the ten years that the family
Speaker 1: lived there, and at one point Lorraine attempted a seance
Speaker 1: to try and contact the spirits. During this, Caroline was possessed.
Speaker 1: She floated up off the ground and started chanting and
Speaker 1: what her eldest daughter, Andrea called, quote a language not
Speaker 1: of this world, in a voice not her own. Carolin
Speaker 1: was lifted up and thrown across the roof. After that,
Speaker 1: Roger parent told the warrants to quote, get the hell
Speaker 1: out of my house and never return. In all, the
Speaker 1: parents had to live in that house for a decade
Speaker 1: before they could afford to move, at which point the
Speaker 1: haunting stopped. Andrea parents said, quote, my mother and I
Speaker 1: would just as soon swallow our tongues than tell a lie.
Speaker 1: People are free to believe what they want, but I
Speaker 1: know what we experienced. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's so
Speaker 1: cold in here. Are you're not breezing? I mean it's
Speaker 1: a little cold, but I just turned the heat. Can
Speaker 1: you do you feel like a space heater or something.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yea yeah, hang up, there's a space heater.
Speaker 1: Um go get it just a second on the door
Speaker 1: won't open. You'll just get up. I still get up?
Speaker 1: What are you doing up? Oh? You still with us? Listener?
Speaker 1: Stay awhile. We have such stories to share. We we'll
Speaker 1: be back right after this. Welcome back everyone. There are
Speaker 1: treats for the ears and so beariful all to share. Um,
Speaker 1: excuse me, I'm sorry. It's these these fall allergies. You know,
Speaker 1: they've really been kicking in the last couple of days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your voice sounds really weird. And the season water are
Speaker 1: you Yeah, no, it feels a lot better. And it's
Speaker 1: so weird how the power was flickering right, and that
Speaker 1: draft came in under a freezing call. Anyway, So there's
Speaker 1: so much more important info about the Warrens beyond the
Speaker 1: cases they explored, and much of it has come out
Speaker 1: just in recent years. Ed passed away in August of
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, and one of the stories he
Speaker 1: always wanted to get made into a movie was the
Speaker 1: conjuring That one really stuck with them. Both their daughter,
Speaker 1: Judy's husband Tony Spera said, quote, and what's being made
Speaker 1: into a movie that one. I think he's working from
Speaker 1: beyond to make this thing happen. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people in Hollywood right now trying to get a script made,
Speaker 1: and they're like Ed Cain, he's dead and he gets
Speaker 1: I guess I gotta be a ghost town now. First
Speaker 1: of all, obviously, the Warrens have always had their detractors.
Speaker 1: Many disbelievers in the Viking News of Westchester Community College
Speaker 1: wrote in opposition to the school using student activity fees
Speaker 1: to pay Lorraine to lecture. They said, quote Warren, along
Speaker 1: with her late husband Ed, are audacious and unabashed frauds,
Speaker 1: capitalizing on completely meritless superstition, which is all too common
Speaker 1: in modern society. And Dr Stephen no Ella at Yale
Speaker 1: School of Medicine says that their methods just exacerbate people's
Speaker 1: existing mental illness. He said, quote, they'll say, yes, your
Speaker 1: child is possessed by a demon. That's the worst thing
Speaker 1: you can do to somebody with a delusional problem. It's
Speaker 1: like saying, yes, the CIA really is monitoring you through
Speaker 1: the fillings in your teeth. Damn. Wait, CIA is monitoring
Speaker 1: to me through my film, and now I feel like
Speaker 1: he was really confessing there and then trying to get
Speaker 1: I believe it. I know you're listening, C I A.
Speaker 1: I do think it's so weird to say anyone with
Speaker 1: the ghost deep problem has mental illness, right right, right?
Speaker 1: But I guess if you're not believing, what else could be?
Speaker 1: Do you think it must be a delusion, you know,
Speaker 1: or unless it's just creaky floorboards or a draft like
Speaker 1: it was for us, like it was. Yeah, but claims
Speaker 1: of Adam Lorraine's fraud we're just the beginning. Because in
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, four years after The Conjuring came out
Speaker 1: and a year after The Conjuring two, the Hollywood Reporter
Speaker 1: put out an article titled war over the Conjuring The
Speaker 1: disturbing claims behind a billion dollar franchise, and that brings
Speaker 1: us to this episode's side piece, I'm scared now. The
Speaker 1: article says that a few weeks after the Conjuring movie opened,
Speaker 1: studio executives were made aware of allegations that in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen sixties, Ed Warren had a relationship with an
Speaker 1: underage girl with Lorraine's knowledge. What her name is Judith
Speaker 1: Penny and now in her seventies. She said in a
Speaker 1: sworn declaration that she quote lived in the Warren's house
Speaker 1: as Ed's lover for four decades. An attorney for Lorraine
Speaker 1: said that the family had no knowledge of such conduct,
Speaker 1: and that as Lorraine was ninety years old at the
Speaker 1: time and in failing health, she could not comment. Judith
Speaker 1: Penny said that before Ed was famous, he was working
Speaker 1: as a city bus driver in Monroe, Connecticut. He was
Speaker 1: in his mid thirties and Judith was just fifteen, a
Speaker 1: student at Central High School who wrote his bus. She
Speaker 1: began a quote amorous relationship with him, and by nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty three she moved into their home. Hollywood Reporters says
Speaker 1: quote for the next forty years. She said she had
Speaker 1: a sexual relationship with Ed with Lorraine's knowledge. At first,
Speaker 1: she had a bedroom across the hall from them, before
Speaker 1: the couple had an apartment built for her upstairs. Ed
Speaker 1: would sleep downstairs one night and upstairs the next. Sounds
Speaker 1: like they had a nice compromise going at the very least,
Speaker 1: but her moving in didn't go unnoticed. In ninety three,
Speaker 1: someone tipped off the police and Judith was arrested. Police
Speaker 1: tried to convince her to sign a statement admitting to
Speaker 1: the affair, but she refused. The courts ordered her to
Speaker 1: go to juvenile delinquency meetings once a week for a month.
Speaker 1: Ed would pick her up from school and take her there. Okay,
Speaker 1: a couple of things, many problems. One, why does she
Speaker 1: get arrested when people say that she's sleeping with she's
Speaker 1: a minor sleep with an adult? Boggles the mind. Why
Speaker 1: would she get arrested? Would a great question him if
Speaker 1: those accusations came up him, her parents, maybe anyone but her?
Speaker 1: Why is she the one unless you're like, the only
Speaker 1: place you're safe is in US cops watching you because
Speaker 1: you have a creep out with you. Unless the police
Speaker 1: are being controlled by the demons who are trying to
Speaker 1: stop Ed and Lorraine God, and they trying to get
Speaker 1: a false confession out of her for this thing, unlikely.
Speaker 1: I don't believe. I'm not taking the side of of
Speaker 1: of a supernatural excuse for a sexual predator. No, thank you. Also,
Speaker 1: if this is all going down, she's got these accusations
Speaker 1: left against her and has has been like court ordered
Speaker 1: to go to juveniles alinquency, ED, what do you do?
Speaker 1: And being the one to take her like, talk about
Speaker 1: taking it more suspicious. I'm really not understanding how they
Speaker 1: did not remove her from the home even if she
Speaker 1: wouldn't sign a statement. They still know, right, they believe,
Speaker 1: but I don't think they had any proof. Somebody just
Speaker 1: tipped them off. I mean I guess, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: if she won't say anything, they can't really be like,
Speaker 1: you're not in a safe space. She's just living there.
Speaker 1: They're taking care of her. Damn Well, it gets worse
Speaker 1: because in nineteen fifteen, years after she moved in with them,
Speaker 1: Judith says that this is when she got pregnant with
Speaker 1: Ed's child and Lorraine convinced her to have an abortion.
Speaker 1: She said that despite Lorraine claiming to be a devout Catholic, quote,
Speaker 1: her real God is money. And Judith claims that, you know,
Speaker 1: if the scandal had gotten out, it would ruin their career,
Speaker 1: as you know ghost hunters, which they were successful at
Speaker 1: at the time. They were pretty big at this time. Okay,
Speaker 1: so she's like, you can't have no baby around me now.
Speaker 1: Judith alleges that the Warrens wanted her to tell everyone
Speaker 1: that someone had broken into the house and raped her.
Speaker 1: And that's how she got pregnant. But Judith refused to
Speaker 1: tell that lie. She did get the abortion, and Ed
Speaker 1: and Lorraine, she says, picked her up from the hospital,
Speaker 1: dropped her off at home, and then went out and
Speaker 1: did a lecture that night. Now, Judith also said that
Speaker 1: Ed and Lorraine would fight really badly. She claimed, quote
Speaker 1: some nights, I thought they were going to kill each other.
Speaker 1: She also said that Ed once backhanded Lorraine so hard
Speaker 1: that she passed out. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, very
Speaker 1: intense allegations. And Lorraine's daughter, Judy and her husband Tony
Speaker 1: say they never saw that kind of behavior from either
Speaker 1: of them, and that they had just offered Judith Penny
Speaker 1: a place to live when she had nowhere else to go. Okay,
Speaker 1: so total philanthropists right right point out that Judy did
Speaker 1: not live with the Warrants growing up. She lived with
Speaker 1: her grand So how would she know. I mean they
Speaker 1: were close, you know, she said. She maintained a good
Speaker 1: relationship with them throughout their lives. Right. But people can hide.
Speaker 1: People can hide us. Think about Fred and Dolly OSTERI,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Dolly can hide a lot. You can
Speaker 1: hide a lot in the house from an unobservant person.
Speaker 1: But Judy and Tony allege that while the warrants were
Speaker 1: on tour lecturing, Judith watched their house, and they claim
Speaker 1: that she had a long term boyfriend at the time
Speaker 1: who she eventually married. They think Judith is being manipulated.
Speaker 1: But get this. In Lorraine's contract with New Line to
Speaker 1: work as a consultant on the conjuring, the Hollywood Reporter
Speaker 1: reports that it specifically states that neither she nor Ed
Speaker 1: could be depicted quote engaging in crimes including sex with miners,
Speaker 1: child pornography, prostitution, or sexual assault, and neither of them
Speaker 1: could be depicted as having an extramarital affair. Hollywood Reporter
Speaker 1: does quote a talent attorney saying that it's not unusual
Speaker 1: for people to put specific details in their contracts when
Speaker 1: they sell the rights to their stories, but quote, she
Speaker 1: has never seen specific language barring depictions like these. Man.
Speaker 1: That is so weird, so weird, because you might say,
Speaker 1: like I might sell my story to New Line, which
Speaker 1: I feel free to call me up guys, um, and
Speaker 1: you know I might put in my contract. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you can never just make me chrimellion a crime. And
Speaker 1: I never did, but I don't want them to put
Speaker 1: it in there for dramatic effect, Like I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to get ahead of it and say, don't funk in
Speaker 1: my life too much that happens. But to so specifically say,
Speaker 1: by the way, you can never depict us as having
Speaker 1: sex with miners is like such a very specific thing
Speaker 1: to put in there, insanely specific. If someone was reading it,
Speaker 1: I feel like they'd be like, usually that kind of
Speaker 1: goes without saying, yeah, but maybe you would include it
Speaker 1: if you knew there was some dirt out there about
Speaker 1: your asked being nasty, pedophile, super weird. And then get this.
Speaker 1: After the movie came out, producer Tony de Rosa Grund
Speaker 1: emailed a bunch of executives and said, hey, you guys,
Speaker 1: we gotta stop saying that this is the true story
Speaker 1: of the Warrens, because it ain't. He got wind of
Speaker 1: Judith's claims and said, quote, Ed was a pedophile, a
Speaker 1: sexual predator, and a physically abusive husband. Lorraine enabled Ed
Speaker 1: to do this, and he warned the producers that Judith
Speaker 1: might tell her story to the media, saying quote, once
Speaker 1: this comes out, do you think Patrick Wilson or via
Speaker 1: Farmigo would knowingly play Ed and Lorraine again. Oh hell,
Speaker 1: no Vera would be like remove of me, replaced me
Speaker 1: with the holocrame of Christopher Plummer. Now. De Grund told
Speaker 1: Judith Penny that he could quote temper the romantic relationship
Speaker 1: between the characters and the sequel because one of the
Speaker 1: big problems that she had is that I guess they're
Speaker 1: to portrayed is such a loving couple. And she's like,
Speaker 1: that's totally wrong. I don't want people thinking that was
Speaker 1: what their life was when it was actually very volatile
Speaker 1: and bad. You know, there's a lot of bad stuff
Speaker 1: going on. He said, Well, in the sequels, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll make sure that it's not such a happy marriage.
Speaker 1: But get this. Just a few years later, Tony de
Speaker 1: Rosa Grund was suing Warner Brothers and New Line for
Speaker 1: booting him from the sequels. All of a sudden, he
Speaker 1: wasn't involved no more. What very strange. Meanwhile, remember Gerard Brittle,
Speaker 1: who wrote the book The Demonologists and spent years following
Speaker 1: and interviewing the Warrens. He was also suing Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: and New Line. He claimed that the conjuring franchise violate
Speaker 1: an exclusivity deal that he had with the Warrens, which
Speaker 1: prevented them from entering into a motion picture deal without
Speaker 1: his consent. He also claimed the movies were falsely depicting
Speaker 1: real figures and claiming to be true stories, so essentially
Speaker 1: like Tony saying, this ain't the real story, right, because
Speaker 1: Brittle revealed that while he believed the Warrens when he
Speaker 1: was writing the book, he later discovered that their stories
Speaker 1: were far from truthful. He said the studio was aware
Speaker 1: they were false, and therefore they copied the version of
Speaker 1: events in his book rather than tell their true story,
Speaker 1: so therefore they were stealing his version. He had written
Speaker 1: it as a true story, but it turned out to
Speaker 1: be fiction. So he's like, as the writer, I should
Speaker 1: get something, which I totally get it. That's so crazy.
Speaker 1: He must have heard Judas claims as well, and it's
Speaker 1: just well, Brittle actually knew Judith. He knew her pretty
Speaker 1: well because he spent so long with the Warrants. There's
Speaker 1: a passing reference to her in his book, but not
Speaker 1: much of one, and according to Living Magazine, somewhere in
Speaker 1: Gerald Brittle's three and fifty five page lawsuit, he claims
Speaker 1: that Judith Penny was ready to testify about how inaccurate
Speaker 1: the portrayals of the Warrens were in the movies. It said,
Speaker 1: she would disclose quote the absolute charade of this family
Speaker 1: dynamic as depicted as fact in these movies. The true
Speaker 1: family dynamic was known at the highest executive levels of
Speaker 1: both New Line and Time Warner. So he's saying, I
Speaker 1: will I've got a witness who can come out here
Speaker 1: and spill this. And this seemed to be what really
Speaker 1: freaked out the movie studios because they're like, first, we
Speaker 1: didn't want this to get out because we're just trying
Speaker 1: to sell a movie here. We don't want people hating
Speaker 1: these characters, right, so bury that. And then on top
Speaker 1: of that, they're like, oh, plus, if this story is
Speaker 1: not true, then we did copy the book, so we'll
Speaker 1: get in trouble for that, uh huh. And then on
Speaker 1: top of that, now if it comes out and for example,
Speaker 1: de Rosa Grunt has this email to us from back
Speaker 1: then telling us and we knowingly ignored it, and it
Speaker 1: looks real bad for us to now. Judith herself never
Speaker 1: did go to the media with her story. There's a
Speaker 1: few taped conversations I'm not sure with whom, but the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter got their hands on these, and then of
Speaker 1: course they have what they heard from de Rosa, Grund
Speaker 1: and Gerald Brittle about Judith's story. Judith spoke to someone
Speaker 1: because it said that there's a sworn statement out there
Speaker 1: that she wrote, so I'm not sure exactly who, but
Speaker 1: she did not go to the media with this story herself.
Speaker 1: But the tapes revealed that she did really love ed Um.
Speaker 1: She didn't have very fond feelings for Lorraine, and she
Speaker 1: often wondered why Lorraine let her stick around for so long.
Speaker 1: In one of these recordings, she says, quote, why did
Speaker 1: I do this? Why did I screw up my life
Speaker 1: like this? I get angry thinking about it. How so
Speaker 1: much was taken away from me? I mean true, though,
Speaker 1: for you live in as a third wheel in some
Speaker 1: guy's house, a secret mistress for starting years year old,
Speaker 1: and you never get to have your kid, a kid
Speaker 1: of your own, or a house of your own, or
Speaker 1: anything of your own. I mean, yeah, that would be
Speaker 1: something that would make you incredibly better. And yeah, like
Speaker 1: you said, fifteen, at what point was she like, man,
Speaker 1: I think I was probably a child who wasn't capable
Speaker 1: of making a decision like. In the end, Brittle's case
Speaker 1: was settled with the joint statement being released, saying quote
Speaker 1: Mr Brittle realizes that filing this lawsuit was a mistake
Speaker 1: and that new Line has no liability and did nothing wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm like, did he realize it was a mistake because
Speaker 1: you sent some coons to his house or a big
Speaker 1: enough check? Well that's either way, because they settled out
Speaker 1: of Cork. He was suing for nine hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: because that this is again, this is an over billion
Speaker 1: dollar franchise at this point, the conjuring, the conjuring to Annabel.
Speaker 1: I think there's an Annabel to the none. These are
Speaker 1: all movies based off the warrants and their stories that
Speaker 1: Brittle wrote about in his book. Okay, so yeah, he
Speaker 1: really felt like he needed recompense, So I guess he
Speaker 1: did get his recompense. And THHR reports that Brittle now
Speaker 1: claims he was put up to the lawsuit by none
Speaker 1: other than Tony de rosa Grunts producer. He said, quote,
Speaker 1: Tony has been controlling this litigation from the start. He
Speaker 1: even threatened my attorneys that if they sent information from
Speaker 1: me without him reviewing it first, they would be fired.
Speaker 1: Ah what. He also said that when he complained about
Speaker 1: this about Dick Grun sort of oversight of all the
Speaker 1: evidence and everything, de Grun told the lawyers, Oh good, well,
Speaker 1: then get Gerald to fucking pay you. Oh wait, he
Speaker 1: doesn't have a pot to piss in. I for got.
Speaker 1: Oh okay. So it's really like elitist about it too,
Speaker 1: Like I'm paying for the lawsuit here. Oh wow, I
Speaker 1: get I get to control the whole flow of information.
Speaker 1: Get a pot to piston first, right, So very shifty,
Speaker 1: that is shifting. But then Tony says, quote Mr Brittle
Speaker 1: was never a puppet. New Lines campaign against me is
Speaker 1: pure retribution because I was the whistleblower that put new
Speaker 1: Line on notice regarding the sexual predation by Ed Warren.
Speaker 1: The studio did not only not investigate those claims, they
Speaker 1: said they didn't want to know. Wow. So I could
Speaker 1: totally see a studio being like, we're right this check
Speaker 1: but this is what you need to be saying. Oh
Speaker 1: it's so hard to say, oh my god, because usually
Speaker 1: I mean especially I mean this is this was all
Speaker 1: happening in seventeen or so. Hollywood's got a pretty potent
Speaker 1: history back then of covering up sexual assault, especially they have, Yeah,
Speaker 1: especially when they have a ton of money at stake,
Speaker 1: like a big franchise like this, So you know, I
Speaker 1: could totally see that. On the other hand, I don't
Speaker 1: know this guy de Rosa Grund. He sounds real shady.
Speaker 1: Apparently he's getting sued for like some sort of crypto
Speaker 1: thing right now in Florida. I don't really know the details. Um,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. He might be the shitty, shifty
Speaker 1: guy who was who's also correct about everything that's going
Speaker 1: on with Edward. That doesn't necessarily mean blind. Yeah, if anything,
Speaker 1: he would know more about it. Like, trust me, I've
Speaker 1: done it myself many times. I'll tell you exactly how
Speaker 1: they did it. But people are like, well, why then
Speaker 1: is he uh you know, making all this up? If
Speaker 1: he is, And people like, well, he got booted from
Speaker 1: making the sequels, so he's just a grudge. He wants
Speaker 1: his money. They were like, well, then why do you
Speaker 1: get booted from the sequels? But then is he just
Speaker 1: nobody likes him and he sucks? Exactly what did he
Speaker 1: do or did he say something about this and they
Speaker 1: didn't like it? Oh? Right, this is a very tough
Speaker 1: and in terms of Judith, some people say that he
Speaker 1: put her up to a lot of this, that he
Speaker 1: took maybe an old yeah, that Tony did that. Maybe
Speaker 1: this is an old story that true or not, he's
Speaker 1: sort of like dug up and re sparked, trying to
Speaker 1: trying to get her to testify. You know. Some people
Speaker 1: say that she was pressured by police originally to talk
Speaker 1: about this affair that never happened, and it was all
Speaker 1: people just kind of coming after the Warrens um either
Speaker 1: because they resented them, a lot of people hated them, uh,
Speaker 1: or or for some other reason we don't know about.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm inclined to believe this, lady, so am
Speaker 1: I so am I. Um, but it is wild, It's real,
Speaker 1: hard to say, very very wild. And I guess Lorraine
Speaker 1: is no longer with us. Lorane died in nineteen Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she was in poor health for the last few years.
Speaker 1: So she, as far as I could tell, never really
Speaker 1: commented on this. Yeah. And Judas is still alive. Jude
Speaker 1: is Yeah. Judas is still alive as far as I know,
Speaker 1: but again, has never really made any media appearances. Um. Judy,
Speaker 1: her daughter and her husband Tony are still alive. They
Speaker 1: took over the museum for a while, but it did
Speaker 1: close after Lorraine's death. Oh that's too bad. Yeah, Apparently
Speaker 1: after the movies came out, they started getting way more
Speaker 1: recognition and somebody complained about the museum. Well, they said
Speaker 1: people just started pouring in. They got so much more
Speaker 1: business than they could handle. And I remember the daughter
Speaker 1: Judy saying people would just come in and park in
Speaker 1: the parking lot and like peer at us through the
Speaker 1: windows and stuff, and it got real creepy. It was
Speaker 1: to Lorraine for me. Um. But eventually someone complained, like
Speaker 1: somebody filed a suit against them not having the right
Speaker 1: permits or something because they just set this museum up
Speaker 1: their house, right, it wasn't a commercial right, um, So
Speaker 1: eventually they did have to shut it down. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: don't know where the Annabelle Doll is today though exactly
Speaker 1: did they keep it shut? She the reason all this
Speaker 1: is going on. I did read an interview with Fear
Speaker 1: of Farming Go where she said they went to the
Speaker 1: Lorraine's house to meet them before the movie got started,
Speaker 1: or to meet Lorraine before the movie got started, and
Speaker 1: she said Patrick Wilson went down into their basement where
Speaker 1: their museum is. But I wouldn't do it, she said,
Speaker 1: I've heard too many stories. I wouldn't go down there. Hell, no, sir,
Speaker 1: I need to see that doll. Wilson see anything. I
Speaker 1: guess he never said. He didn't say he never tell
Speaker 1: anyone when you start down here, Patrick Wilson, he's like, uh,
Speaker 1: and Patrick Wilson and Vera Farming At least in Hollywood
Speaker 1: Reporter it says they have never commented on any of
Speaker 1: this stuff. So that's probably for the best. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: they're really nothing to say until you know it's really
Speaker 1: he said. He said, I would argue that the producers
Speaker 1: probably never informed them of any of this. That was
Speaker 1: another I was about to say. Also, they might not
Speaker 1: have even known. Why would they be told? And again,
Speaker 1: as like the what's his name? The producer was like,
Speaker 1: do you think they will play the Warrens if they're
Speaker 1: now you know how shitty they are? So I'm sure
Speaker 1: they were like, well, we can't tell the stars that
Speaker 1: there's even a you know, a whiff of scandal, right exactly, So,
Speaker 1: Patrick Wilson, Vera Farmiga, if you're listening, this is the
Speaker 1: true story. Your characters. We look forward to you coming
Speaker 1: on the show and talking to us about it. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that was very creepy, super creepy. I mean
Speaker 1: it's all creepy. I mean each of these like their
Speaker 1: respective experiences growing up. If any of that's true, super creepy.
Speaker 1: Look at the parents, I mean they those girls are
Speaker 1: still around and they swear up and down this happened.
Speaker 1: You know why we lie about it. They didn't make
Speaker 1: no money off it. They spent ten years being tormented,
Speaker 1: So I don't know spooky things, book things, indeed, who
Speaker 1: I would love to hear y'all's thoughts about it, honestly,
Speaker 1: about these stories, about the movies, about any sort of
Speaker 1: hauntings you've experienced. Uh, we'll tell these stories on the
Speaker 1: airs to send them our way. Yeah, what's up? Are
Speaker 1: you cold again? Oh my god? Thank you for contributing
Speaker 1: your souls to this episode. Tonal promise you will not
Speaker 1: go unrewarded. Maillard. Demons can reach out to Redick Romance
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com and follow the Dark Floor our
Speaker 1: mean follow us on social media, a True on Earth
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter, Follow at all Greek Feli and
Speaker 1: at Diana my Bloom and follow the show at with
Speaker 1: their romance. If thou wouldst like to live deliciously and
Speaker 1: so long, friends, it is trying to leave. When we
Speaker 1: rise again, halloisive put your friends in it, and put
Speaker 1: meads and play for then a show we could tell
Speaker 1: us rows