1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,159
Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and today it

3
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 1: is time for another edition of Female First, which means

4
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 1: we are once again thrilled to be joined by the wonderful,

5
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 1: the winning, the winsome, thieves.

6
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 2: Deaf coach, happy to be here. What does winsome mean

7
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: you have?

8
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 3: Well, somebody described me as winsome on their podcast, but

9
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,599
Speaker 3: I had to go look it up. Is just kind

10
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,920
Speaker 3: of like charming, like winning personality.

11
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,040
Speaker 2: It's a compliment. It's good, Okay, I'll take it. I'm

12
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 2: here for it. I mean, I figure from the prefix

13
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 2: that wins would be pretty good contest clues, but I

14
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 2: really did not know what it means. But I'm here

15
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 2: for a little adult vocabulary learning. I was watching the

16
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:01,760
Speaker 2: spelling when it was back on a few weeks ago,

17
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, I want to be like them.

18
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 2: You know, I had. I had a little bit of

19
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 2: spelling be aspirations when I was young, but those never

20
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 2: materialized into anything.

21
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 4: Wait Atie, you won something, right? Yeah, I was in

22
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 4: the contest. I did not last. But Anie, you actually

23
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,520
Speaker 4: won a spelling Bee contest?

24
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: Yet I did? I did?

25
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 2: I went.

26
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 3: I went to state, which is so sad now because

27
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 3: I really blame spell check. But I am not as

28
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 3: good as a speller anymore. But I was good back then.

29
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 3: But the word that I failed, I'm so mad about

30
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 3: it because I knew how to spell it. It was

31
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,040
Speaker 3: aggravate and I said a R and you can't go back.

32
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,200
Speaker 2: And I immed, was like, dang, all right, goodbye.

33
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 4: Their way.

34
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 2: But did you like walk away with your shoulders hunched

35
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 2: over in your hit down? I was mad.

36
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 1: I was like visibly angry.

37
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,360
Speaker 2: That's worse than like spelling it wrong and not knowing

38
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 2: that's your spelling.

39
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I.

40
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 2: Like remember so.

41
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 3: And then somebody came up and asked me about it afterwards,

42
00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,920
Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't want to talk about it.

43
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like losing on a technicality. This is like

44
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 2: when people when they go to judge's decision. When I'm

45
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 2: watching UFC, I'm like, I need I need a clear win.

46
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 2: Why are the judges deciding this? That's what I need

47
00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 2: to know.

48
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 4: Like the little competitions for like gymnastics, I did. I

49
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 4: did cheerleading inside. Look, but if you stepped off like

50
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,679
Speaker 4: a part of the mat, you were an automatic. So

51
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,840
Speaker 4: any person like got off at certain point, you're done.

52
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 4: That was one of those moms, So like why that

53
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 4: was so it wasn't based on our performance. It was

54
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 4: literally something right we was just a silly mistake.

55
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's all this anticipation and build up and

56
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, it's.

57
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 3: A lot of pressure. I'm surprised you watched that use

58
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 3: that would like it makes me nervous when I.

59
00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 2: Watched the well, you know what, it's so wholesome. There

60
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,080
Speaker 2: aren't many things that are wholesome these days.

61
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 4: Oh that's true.

62
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,960
Speaker 2: And just watching children spell knowing that they're the future

63
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,760
Speaker 2: and they had the fortitude and the will power and

64
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 2: the focus and determination to study these words and their roots.

65
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 2: Since it's it's refreshing, it's lighthearted and it's just like

66
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 2: a breath of fresh air.

67
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,400
Speaker 4: Did you have for someone specific? Did you have a favorite?

68
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 3: No?

69
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: And I think that's another part of why it's so wholesome,

70
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 2: because you're rooting for everybody, like there's no for me there.

71
00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 2: It was like it was no competition, Like it was

72
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:38,840
Speaker 2: like one person got out and I was like, oh,

73
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 2: that's unfortunate, and the next person comes up like, yes,

74
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 2: you got it, You got it, you can do it.

75
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 2: It's just like never ending warmth, like running through my

76
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 2: veins as I'm watching it.

77
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 4: You in general, because I have a feeling i'd pick

78
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 4: someone out just for spite. Yeah, I have weird hobbies anyway,

79
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 4: Like you're.

80
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 2: The one doing the online betting audio very niche community

81
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 2: of online better on spelling people win well kind of related.

82
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,599
Speaker 3: When when y'all were young, did you ever imagine yourself

83
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,760
Speaker 3: either having your own show or.

84
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 1: Being on like an interview show of type situation?

85
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 2: I did not, So I guess I'll go first, because

86
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 2: my answer isn't that interesting. I did not. I watched

87
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 2: interview shows when I was younger and liked that for

88
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,520
Speaker 2: whatever reason, my brain really likes that. But I did

89
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 2: not ever want to be on a show. I'm also

90
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 2: not a person who wants to be in the limelight anyway,

91
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 2: So no, that wasn't me. I didn't want. I didn't

92
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,800
Speaker 2: want like, I didn't want a real life show like

93
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,840
Speaker 2: an interview show. I didn't want a fictionalized show. No,

94
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine myself there. So what about what about y'all?

95
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,839
Speaker 4: That's the podcasters? Yeah, essentially, in my head, I'm the

96
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 4: cool person. So in that cool person zone, I'm very

97
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 4: cool and collective and all my answers are amazing. In

98
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 4: real life, I realize I freeze up real fast, and

99
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 4: I'm very anxious. I'm like, yeah, I can't do this.

100
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 4: Why did I think I wanted to do this? But yeah,

101
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 4: as a child, I'm like, yeah, this is absolutely I

102
00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 4: could be an actress. I could be in a spotlight.

103
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 4: That would be an amazing person to receive this award.

104
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 4: This is a speech, and of course I would give

105
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,719
Speaker 4: a speech. Who I would think and all these things,

106
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,480
Speaker 4: and then in actuality being in front of people now

107
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 4: when we have like little panels or such, and I'm like, yep, nope,

108
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,440
Speaker 4: never mind, just kidding, just kidding.

109
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 2: Real life hit you hard.

110
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, You're like, oh no, no, yeah, I'm not equipped

111
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 4: for this.

112
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

113
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 3: I feel like I went through a stage where it

114
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 3: wasn't so much I wanted to be on interviewed for anything.

115
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 3: But I thought that I thought if I did do

116
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 3: what I wanted to do was, which was acting, I

117
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 3: would have to be on there. So I would like

118
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,919
Speaker 3: kind of practice in my head what I would say,

119
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 3: what like would be the funny quips I would.

120
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,000
Speaker 2: Have ready to go, and so it was.

121
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 3: It was a strange like now I'm with you Smith,

122
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,240
Speaker 3: I would freeze up. I would not be funny. I

123
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 3: would obviously be like panicking and trying to be.

124
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:24,119
Speaker 2: Play it cool.

125
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 3: I want to if I ever did become famous enough

126
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 3: that they wanted me on an interview show, I would

127
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 3: want to be one of those actors that just doesn't

128
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:32,159
Speaker 3: do it.

129
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 2: You would never see them. That's the way to go.

130
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 2: That's what I want to.

131
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,280
Speaker 3: Yes, I want to do the thing I love and

132
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 3: kind of be left alone about it exactly.

133
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 2: How very artists of you.

134
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 4: To say that, just me, let me be, let me

135
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 4: do my lart.

136
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 2: I have to say, it's very endearing that you plant

137
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,800
Speaker 2: out your witty things, because I think when you think

138
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 2: of wit is something that comes fontaneously. So it's like,

139
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 2: let me be prepared to be off the cuff. I

140
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 2: can see searching through, like going through the rolodex. I

141
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 2: was gonna say roller dext too. I was like, that's

142
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 2: gonna date me.

143
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 4: But yes, you know, that's like a whole thing in

144
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 4: the Jane Austen's pride and prejudice that he collects compliments

145
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,520
Speaker 4: to give to women so he can be prepared to

146
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 4: give off the cuff spontaneous compliment that he's already thought

147
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 4: of and written down, like that's part of his character,

148
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,120
Speaker 4: and obviously calling out why he's not so smart he has.

149
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 2: To do it.

150
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 4: I feel a little int I'm not saying that.

151
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 2: Just like.

152
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 1: That's all right, you know, just behind the curtain.

153
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 3: Like I used to do that because I hate talking

154
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 3: on the phone, so I would write out. I would

155
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 3: write out, like, here are my bullet points of what

156
00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about. Heres Like literally it's.

157
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 2: A smart way to go, you know.

158
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 3: And now as you're listening to this podcast, you're like, what.

159
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 2: Is this all practiced? No?

160
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 1: No, I can be witty sometimes.

161
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 4: You're very You're very witty all the time.

162
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 3: Thank you. Well, I am really excited to talk about

163
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 3: the person you brought today, Eves.

164
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 2: So who are we going to be discussing today? We're

165
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 2: going to be talking about Ethel Waters. And that's why

166
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 2: we were talking about being in your own television show

167
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,680
Speaker 2: because she was the first black American to start in

168
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 2: her own television show. So she had a bunch of

169
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 2: other specific firsts along the way, but she generally was

170
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 2: just a pioneering person when it came to theater and

171
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 2: stage entertainment and television and radio. She was a singer

172
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 2: and a little bit of a dancer, So she was

173
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 2: multi talented, that's for sure.

174
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 1: She was.

175
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,320
Speaker 3: She did a lot, and as I was kind of researching,

176
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, and she did this. Oh yeah, yeah,

177
00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 3: she's got quite the history. So shall we get into it.

178
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's so. She was born on October thirty first,

179
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 2: eighteen ninety six, in Chester, Pennsylvania, and her mother was

180
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 2: Luisa tar Anderson and her father was John Wesley Waters.

181
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 2: There is mention of rape here, so just a content

182
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 2: warning before we get into that. John was a pianist

183
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 2: who died when Ethel was pretty young. He wasn't really

184
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 2: involved in her life anyway, though, and her Ethel's grandmother

185
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 2: raised her and didn't really want him around. It was

186
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,480
Speaker 2: said that Ethel herself said, and also said in Etho's biographies,

187
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 2: that John raped her mother when she was young and

188
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,319
Speaker 2: that's how she was conceived. Her mother was a teenager,

189
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,079
Speaker 2: though her exact age at the time she was conceived

190
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,160
Speaker 2: its unclear, but it is thought that John was somewhere

191
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 2: around the same age as Ethel mother. But anyway, Ethel

192
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 2: had a half sister named Genevieve, and Genevieve was the

193
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 2: child of Louisa and Norman Joseph Howard, who was Louisa's husband,

194
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 2: So basically Ethel's stepfather. Genevieve is kind of described as

195
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 2: being Louisa's favorite. So, like I said, Ethel was raised

196
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,520
Speaker 2: by her grandmother, and there were times when Ethel would

197
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,240
Speaker 2: be back with her mother, but it seemed like there

198
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 2: was this kind of tug of war between the two

199
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,280
Speaker 2: of them, between her grandmother and her mother, and when

200
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 2: something went down, then she would get passed to her

201
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 2: mother and she would go back to her grandmother. But

202
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 2: Ethel herself had this fondness and warmth that she clearly

203
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 2: communicated in some of her quotes for her grandmother and

204
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 2: how she raised her. That said, a lot of her

205
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 2: childhood is described as being not the best. Ethel had

206
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,040
Speaker 2: an education, but as author Donald Bogel puts it in

207
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 2: the biography, it was a spotty education. Ethel was born

208
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,080
Speaker 2: in poverty and she had to fend for herself in

209
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,560
Speaker 2: many situations, so she would do things like run errands

210
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 2: for pimps and sex workers to get money and this

211
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 2: seems like a thread throughout the rest of her life.

212
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 2: So obviously I didn't know Ethel Waters personally, but there

213
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 2: are biographies on her, and there are also statements from

214
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 2: other people who worked with her throughout the rest of

215
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 2: her life, and a general understanding of her persona in

216
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 2: the public and kind of her in her work life,

217
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,320
Speaker 2: in her career, and there seems to be this kind

218
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 2: of through live for the hardness that she had to

219
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 2: have as a young child and the hardness that she

220
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 2: had to have as an adult, which is a very

221
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 2: complex thing for a black woman working in a difficult space.

222
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 2: So I don't want to take that too lightly or

223
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 2: be too flippant about it, because I know that things

224
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 2: were very complex for her. But there's this idea that

225
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,840
Speaker 2: she didn't take bs from anybody through throughout her life.

226
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 2: And as Bogo also says in heat Waves, she developed

227
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 2: a quote unquote tough girl persona. There was a woman

228
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,880
Speaker 2: named Butterfly McQueen who at the later worked with on

229
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,600
Speaker 2: the Shell Beulah, and she said that quote she'd been

230
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 2: to the University of Heart Knocks, so she used four

231
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:25,720
Speaker 2: letter words. So Ethel was tough and her childhood was tough,

232
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,360
Speaker 2: so she was tough when she was young as well.

233
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,840
Speaker 2: She developed a deep connection to Christianity when she was

234
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,200
Speaker 2: young too. She went to Catholic school and she attended

235
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 2: different denominations of Christian churches. So, as a teenager, continuing

236
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 2: this need to help support herself and support the family,

237
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 2: she did domestic work. She did things like laundry, she cooked,

238
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,959
Speaker 2: did dishes, and did childcare. And her income from these

239
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 2: jobs helped her and her grandmother take care of the family.

240
00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 2: So we often hear this story. I think in all

241
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 2: a lot of the black women that we talked about

242
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 2: that they were doing domestic work around this time, so

243
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 2: the early nineteen hundreds. She was relatively tall too. She

244
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 2: was at least taller than average, I will say, not

245
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 2: super tall. She was around like five foot nine inches

246
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 2: by the time she was a teenager, which is something

247
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 2: that's called out in the way that she the presence

248
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 2: that she demanded in spaces. And when she was thirteen

249
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 2: years old, she married a man named Merritt Pearnsley. But

250
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 2: that marriage didn't go well. He didn't seem to be

251
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 2: a great person and there was some abuse in that situation.

252
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 2: She left that marriage after they'd been married for about

253
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 2: only a year. So going into her talents, it seemed

254
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 2: to be something that was in her family. So family

255
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 2: member on both of her parents' sides had musical talent

256
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 2: as singers and pianists. But she said Ethel said that

257
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 2: she never learned to play any instruments or read music,

258
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 2: but she still went on to have this great career.

259
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 2: Of course, not like those are the defining things that

260
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 2: means that somebody can be successful or have skill in

261
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 2: the area. But yeah, so she began attending things in

262
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 2: the arts and entertainment worlds like Latville shows. She saw

263
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 2: notable performers on stage who they sang, they danced, they

264
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 2: did comedy acts and ventriloquism and things like that in

265
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 2: those Potville shows. And it said in her biographies that

266
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 2: she wasn't really set on becoming a performer, like she

267
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to. I admire and appreciate

268
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 2: the people who were out there doing those things, but

269
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 2: I want to travel as a maid to a rich

270
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 2: white woman. But she said that she did enjoy her

271
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 2: own little performance and excitement in her daily life. She

272
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 2: went out to clubs, she sang and danced when she

273
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,000
Speaker 2: went out with her colleagues when she worked at a hotel.

274
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,960
Speaker 2: So there is a story about how she got into performing,

275
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 2: although although by this point she had been doing a

276
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 2: little performance. But she went to a party or a

277
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 2: club on her birthday in nineteen seventeen where she sang

278
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 2: in front of everyone and there were a couple of

279
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 2: agents there Braxton and Nugent with their names. They were

280
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 2: in the audience and they took an interest in her

281
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 2: after seeing her perform. They had put people on the

282
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 2: Chitlin circuit, which was where performers could go to black

283
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 2: theaters and clubs around the US. So this is how

284
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 2: she started moving into her performance career. So she already

285
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 2: was kind of surrounded by it, I mean family wise

286
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 2: and the kinds of entertainment that they were doing, but

287
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 2: also her own personal interest in attending and being in

288
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 2: these arts and entertainment spaces and also performing herself. So

289
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 2: it seemed like it was a kind of natural evolution

290
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 2: into her making it a career. It was clearly something

291
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 2: that she was interested in in a path that would

292
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 2: potentially be viable for her, and others saw that in

293
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 2: her as well. So Ethyl started out on the vaudeville scene,

294
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 2: and vaudeville just for a quick overview of it, was

295
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 2: a genre of theatrical entertainment that was popular in the

296
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,320
Speaker 2: late nineteenth and early twentieth century. A Vauteville show was

297
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 2: made up of a bunch of different kinds of acts,

298
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 2: so it would depend on the show, but there would

299
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 2: be things like song, dance, comedy, play, skits, magic, and

300
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 2: other things like that. So the black entertainers who were

301
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 2: in Vauteville, they had a really big influence on American jazz,

302
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: comedy and musical theater. And Ethyl started out in this space.

303
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 2: She started out playing that black Vauteville scene, which of

304
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 2: course came with his own trials and challenges of you know,

305
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 2: sometimes going into white spaces and being on the black

306
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: Vauteville circuit. So issues of race did, of course come

307
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,919
Speaker 2: up in her career. She started performing around the Baltimore area.

308
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 2: Then she began touring the US as a singer, and

309
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 2: she had this nickname, Sweet Mama string Bean, which she

310
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,199
Speaker 2: was credited with sometimes apparently because she was skinny. I

311
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 2: don't really care for the name Sweet Mama string Bean.

312
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure like how how frequently

313
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 2: she was termed this, you know, if it was something

314
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 2: she was solely built at, or if it was like

315
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 2: some like there were both names involved or whatever. But

316
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 2: I don't think of string beans as something being a

317
00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 2: positive image, So I don't know, it's pretty that's interesting

318
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 2: to me. And also the fact that it's about like

319
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 2: her body type is also a little weird. But I

320
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 2: guess they did that with like bigger people as well,

321
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 2: use terminology in their names around around that, but also

322
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 2: still a little strange either way, that was what it was.

323
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 2: And she performed in Vauteville houses in the South for

324
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,119
Speaker 2: a while, but eventually she made her way north to

325
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,080
Speaker 2: New York, where she sang in clubs in Harlem, notably

326
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 2: a venue called Edmunds Cellar, And so she started doing recording.

327
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 2: She was doing these live performances too, but she also

328
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,640
Speaker 2: did recordings. She did her first recording with the Cardinal

329
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 2: Company in nineteen twenty one, and she later joined the

330
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,679
Speaker 2: Black Oat jazz and blues recording company called black Swan

331
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 2: and she made records with them for a couple of years.

332
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,360
Speaker 2: And around this time blues recordings were really popular, and

333
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 2: particularly race records were popular. That kind of terminology that

334
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 2: they've been geting, which were songs by black artists for

335
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: targeted at black consumers. So pretty it was pretty straightforward.

336
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: The Race records and like no pretty much transparency about

337
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,679
Speaker 2: what they were doing and what they were for. But

338
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,920
Speaker 2: they were popular at the time. And in nineteen twenty five,

339
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,920
Speaker 2: At the Waters took the place of the popular singer

340
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 2: Florence Mills at the Plantation Club and this was a

341
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 2: big moment. There are a few big moments for turning

342
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 2: points in her career for her success, but she did

343
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 2: a song Dinah, and she started singing it there and

344
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 2: it became a big hit. And according to Stephen Bourne

345
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 2: in a bio he wrote about At the Waters, it

346
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,719
Speaker 2: was the first international hit to come from a nightclub review.

347
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,880
Speaker 2: So here she is growing in popularity. She's pretty, she's

348
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 2: garnering attention around her name and around the works that

349
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 2: she's doing. And she had a ten year contract with

350
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 2: Columbia Records. She started making recordings for them in nineteen

351
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 2: twenty five and she moved on to Broadway. So in

352
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty seven she had her first Broadway appearance in

353
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 2: the production Africana. So she was clearly she was clear

354
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 2: about her talents. She knew what she had and what

355
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: she was working with, and wasn't afraid to transition into

356
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 2: other feels that were related to what she was doing.

357
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 2: So in nineteen twenty nine, she had her first on

358
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: screen appearance in the film On with the Show, and

359
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 2: in that film she performed the songs Birmingham, Bertha, and

360
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 2: am I Blue. That movie was marketed as the first

361
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 2: all color, all talking, all singing film, which feels like

362
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: one of those very specific things was sus like, you're

363
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: really trying to get the first in. I get it.

364
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure what all singing means all talking,

365
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was what it was, and Ethel was

366
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: in it, and she was in many more Broadway shows

367
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: and films after that. These shows were things like reviews,

368
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 2: so a review is like a theatrical production that includes

369
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 2: multiple acts like song, dance, and sketches. She was in

370
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: short musicals and then eventually feature films, and she was

371
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: performing alongside these other big names and with other famous

372
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: people who were in Hollywood. So Stormy Weather was a

373
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,959
Speaker 2: song that was written by composer Harold Arlen and by

374
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 2: lyricist Ted Kohler, and that was another of Ethyl's hits.

375
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: So if you go look up Ethel Waters, you'll probably

376
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 2: see stormy Weather come up. She sang it at the

377
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three Cotton Club Parade and it was well

378
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,239
Speaker 2: received there. So the Cotton Club was a venue that

379
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: was in New York City, and the Cotton Club Parades

380
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 2: were musical reviews that were held there, and they would

381
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: do some of those annually. So according to the author

382
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: Stephen Born again, he said that she'd always said that

383
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: stormy Weather was a turning point in her career, and

384
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: she recorded it in May of that year for Columbia Records.

385
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: So also, once again, if you like look up stormy Weather,

386
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: you'll see that other artists, plenty of other artists later

387
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 2: recorded their own versions of that song, and they became

388
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 2: associated with it and garnered that song more international attention,

389
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 2: and like also garnered more attention than Ethel Water is

390
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: kind of being more remembered for stormy Weather than Ethel

391
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: Waters was, even though she did get her credit for

392
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 2: what she did with that song and how she popularized it.

393
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, so her career is taking off, she's getting work,

394
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: and she's garnering success for it. But of course in

395
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 2: the midst of all this career. You know, these people

396
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 2: have their own personal lives to live. She got married

397
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 2: a couple more times after that first marriage. That second

398
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: time was to close Edward Matthews, also known as Eddie,

399
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 2: and then the third time she wasn't married to him

400
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: that long, and the third time she was married to

401
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: another at Eddie, this time Eddie Mallory. So Eddie Mallory

402
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: was a trumpet player, and the two of them went

403
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: on the road together and they recorded together, but their

404
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: relationship didn't last long either. That ended. But in Ethel

405
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: waters biographies it's said that she liked women romantically and

406
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: had a romantic relationship with Ethel Williams, though Waters herself

407
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: never really spoke about it publicly, but she was known

408
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,479
Speaker 2: to live with Ethel Williams, and people would say that

409
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: she would be involved in queer communities in terms of

410
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: them supporting her and her also in life participating in

411
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: those communities. So that is part of her story as well,

412
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: but there's not like a lot of history or documentation

413
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: or her talking about that as it often is. And

414
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: like also it wasn't her job to do to speak

415
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: about it. So but yeah, at the time, Black performers

416
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: were confined to these subservient roles in their character portrayals

417
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: in integrated Broadway reviews. But Ethel Waters got a starring

418
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: role in the Broadway musical as Thousands Cheer, and a

419
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: song that she sang in it, Supper Time, was about lynching,

420
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: and Ethyl talked about knowing a family that was in

421
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: her own statements not in the song. Ethyl talked about

422
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: knowing a family that was affected by lynching and her

423
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 2: own personal experience, saying that she had almost been lynched

424
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: by a theater operator in my home state of Georgia.

425
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: You really go back and read stuff like this and

426
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that's that's where I live right now.

427
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was integrated and she got star billing,

428
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: but she still couldn't be on stage with the white

429
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: pers performers that were in the sketches and songs. But

430
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: she continued to work in theater, and in nineteen thirty nine,

431
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: she got her first dramatic role on Broadway in Mamba's Daughters,

432
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: which was written by the author and playwright couple Dubos

433
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: and Dorothy Hayward. They wrote it for Ethel and this

434
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: made her the first black actress to get top billing

435
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: in a play, and again black women were confined to

436
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: this made submissive role in dramatic productions as well. But

437
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: she also did the musical Cabin in the Sky, which

438
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: she's noted for, which opened in nineteen forty and that

439
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: marks the first time a black actress got so billing

440
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 2: above the title for a musical production. Ethel also played

441
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: the same role that she did in the theatrical production

442
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: and a nineteen forty three film version of Cabin in

443
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: the Sky, and that film had an all black cast. Notably,

444
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: it also had Lean Horn in it, and there was

445
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: some conflict at the time between her in the studio

446
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: and how everything went down with the promo of that

447
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: because the studio had promoted Lena Horn, who was also

448
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: in the film as it stars, so they were going

449
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: out doing promo things like Lena Horn was the one

450
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 2: who was sent to do those things. And in Ethel

451
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: waters biographies there are quite a few situations are quotes

452
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: and when it was clear that Ethel Waters was very

453
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: circumspect and very cautious about the way people treated her

454
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: in those spaces. She was used to being treated negatively

455
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: by the white people who she was working with, and

456
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 2: it was clear that she was very intentional about protecting

457
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 2: her work and how she showed up in her workspaces

458
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: and how she was credited, and like, it just seemed

459
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: to be that she was really intentional about her legacy

460
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: and the way that she was viewed and the way

461
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: the others treated her. So at that time, you know,

462
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: she was definitely like, I need I know what I'm worth,

463
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: you know, I know how I should be credited, and

464
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: when something wasn't to her liking, she was vocal about it.

465
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, so she didn't do another film after that

466
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: until Pinky was released in nineteen forty nine, which is

467
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: about six years later. It was a hard time for

468
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 2: all black performers working or trying to work in Hollywood,

469
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: but also particularly her, who had seemed to garner kind

470
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: of a reputation about being difficult to work with from

471
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: the producers but also from some of her cast mates.

472
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: But Pinky was about a black woman who passed for white.

473
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: But the woman who was passing, who was supposed to

474
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: be a black person passing as white, was actually just

475
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: a white woman and her name was Gene Crane, and

476
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: Ethel played her grandmother in the movie. Of course, there

477
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: was controversy over that as well, and is one of

478
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: those things that we still talk about, like more so

479
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: in terms of colorism. I think today things like that

480
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: come up because I don't know what studio would be

481
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: so bold as to cast a passing person who's white

482
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: these days, but there are still issues around like who's

483
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: light skin and who's dark skin, and who's casting. So

484
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: things like this of course happened at the time as well,

485
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 2: and I know that even today, looking back at that,

486
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 2: people who have our contemporary consciousnesses would feel differently about

487
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: Ethel's portrayal of the grandmother willingness to work in that film,

488
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: and also the fact that they cast a white woman

489
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: as a passing black woman and didn't give the part

490
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: to a black person. But all of that notwithstanding, Ethel

491
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: Waters was nominated for the Best Supporting Actress for the

492
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: film Pinky, and it was the second time a black

493
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: performer was nominated in that category. So Ethel was offered

494
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: a part in the play The Member of the Wedding,

495
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: and at first she turned it down kind of around

496
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: this idea that it wasn't godly or spiritual enough for her.

497
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: So the message that she was seeing when she initially

498
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: reviewed it was like I need more God in this basically,

499
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 2: but she eventually took the role after kind of I guess,

500
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: seeing it in a different way and seeing the spiritual

501
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: relevance that it did have. So that play opened in

502
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty and that marked a return to Broadway for her,

503
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: which she wanted, and she also played in a film

504
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 2: version of that that came out in nineteen fifty two.

505
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: There are, like I mentioned earlier, remarks from people about

506
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: working with her, like people like Eartha kit and Katherine Dunham,

507
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: which are big names in entertainment, on what it was

508
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 2: like to work with her, the difficulty of working with her,

509
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: but also they learned from her. So I just don't

510
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: want people to come away with this idea that like

511
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: like Ethel Waters was very difficult to work with, like

512
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: she was a mean person and she clearly had a

513
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: big personality. But the people who remarked on working with her,

514
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: even if they didn't have the best experience of working

515
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: with her when it came to like their personalities clashing,

516
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: still talked about how they respected her, how they admired

517
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: her for her work, and how they did learn from

518
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: her as a person who was a pioneer in those

519
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: entertainment spaces. So the kind of roles that Ethel Waters took,

520
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: the stereotypes that she was relegated to, the characters that

521
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: she chose to play, was a point of contention for

522
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: her critics. So some of the work that she did

523
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: was praise and her acting or her singing was louded.

524
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: But of course there was a lot of debate from

525
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: black people, white people, all people of all races in

526
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: the United States about the content of her work, her

527
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: choices of her work. But there was a quote from

528
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: Ethel and she said, when Tales of Manhattan was released,

529
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: various Negro organizations picketed the theater showing it their placards,

530
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: protested picturing us colored people as wretched, dirty, and poorly clad.

531
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: I didn't understand that these same organizations were forever complaining

532
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: that we Negroes in America are underprivileged, So why did

533
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: they object to anyone showing us that way on the screen?

534
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: And that's the end. That's the end of the quote.

535
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: And there's also another article that said about her quote,

536
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: she has done little in pictures because she does not

537
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: care for the typed roles offer most of the negro players,

538
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: stars and otherwise. And this is what Ethel said in

539
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: that article. I'd rather stay home and look after little

540
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: Ethel than accept some of the parts offered me, she

541
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: told reporters recently. And that's the end of the article quote.

542
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: So all of that said, there was not only I

543
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: think as critics and as like viewers and consumers of

544
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: media who care about things like portrayal and the way

545
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: that things resonate within society, especially for something about blackness

546
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: in particular, which is what I know about, like specific

547
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: to the demographic and how that affects us personally and

548
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: affects views of us. It is something that is imposed

549
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 2: upon other people and their choices. In this case, it

550
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: was all these people saying, you know, not a fan

551
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: of the roles that Esthel chooses to take, you know,

552
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: questionable ethics, and not a fan, just not a fan

553
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: of her work and the roles that she was taking.

554
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: But it was clear that Ethel was also kind of

555
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: going back and forth herself about the roles that she

556
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: was taking, so saying that I'm not going to take

557
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: any of those roles, but going on to take some

558
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: of those roles, and also being discerning about specific roles,

559
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: So how is it actual character portrayed in a specific screenplay?

560
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: Is there any nuance in death and roundness to their

561
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: character in that? So it's a complicated thing and clearly

562
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: is not something that can just be panned out as

563
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: black and white on what was available to her at

564
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: the time, Like this was still a money making endeavor,

565
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: so she was doing things to be able to support

566
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: herself as well, but also doing it for the artistry,

567
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: So that in itself is a part of Ethel water story,

568
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 2: but also a part of so many other black entertainers

569
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: stories at the time. Ethel Waters wasn't the only one

570
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: who was dealing with questions like that, So she also

571
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: had a history in a background in doing things in

572
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: radio and television beyond her stage work and beyond her

573
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: work in film. So in nineteen thirty three, when she

574
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: was starring at The Cotton Club, she began broadcasting twice

575
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: a week over the NBC network, and that made her

576
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: the first black woman to have a regular radio show

577
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: over a major network, and Stormy Weather, as we talked

578
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: about earlier, was her theme song. She began negotiating for

579
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: another contract to broadcast over CBS, but stations in Georgia

580
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: and Florida didn't want any part of it since they

581
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: thought a white orchestra. She didn't play for a black performer,

582
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 2: but she did do other radio appearances in the thirties

583
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: and forties as a singer, and on June fourteenth, nineteen

584
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: thirty nine, the Ethel Waters Show was broadcast, which was

585
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: a variety special. These were the very very early days

586
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: of NBC television, so NBC Radio already existed, but NBC

587
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: television was just getting up and going. When she was

588
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 2: doing The Member of the Wedding on Broadway, she began

589
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: a role in the television comedy Beulah. Beulah ran from

590
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty three on ABC, but Ethel

591
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: wasn't part of it the whole time. She played in

592
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: it as Beulah until nineteen fifty two and then she

593
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: was replaced with another actor. But it was about a

594
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: domestic worker named Beulah and the white family that she

595
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 2: worked for, and it was the first nationally broadcast weekly

596
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: TV series starring a black American. And after that show ended,

597
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: it was a while until there was another regular series

598
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: that started a black woman, and that was Julia, which

599
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: came out in nineteen sixty eight. So she appeared in

600
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: other radio dramas and dramatic roles on television, but her

601
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: last appearance on the stage on Broadway was in nineteen

602
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: fifty three, and that was in her one woman's show

603
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: called at Home with Ethel Waters about her exactly what

604
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 2: it sounds like. So, yeah, she had a long career,

605
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: but it did have its ups and downs. She ended

606
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: up publishing an autobiography, his Eyes on the Sparrow, in

607
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty one, which he co authored with journalist Charles Samuels,

608
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 2: and later on, so around twenty years later in nineteen

609
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: seventy two, she came out with another autobiography called to

610
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: Me Is Wonderful. But even though she had this commercial

611
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: success and success in her artistry, by nineteen fifty five

612
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: she was in death and she owed taxes and she

613
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: had even ended up going on a game show to

614
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: get some extra money. But yeah, she kind of switched

615
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: it up in her later part of life. And you

616
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: see her so this influence that Christianity had on her

617
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: throughout her whole life. She was always a spiritual woman,

618
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 2: so God was always something she was considered. But in

619
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: the later part of her life. It was something that

620
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: she really gravitated toward. And in the late nineteen fifties

621
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: she started touring with the evangelist Billy Graham's Crusades, and

622
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: you can see videos of her singing as part of this.

623
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: And in the nineteen sixties and seventies she went on

624
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: different variety and talk shows, but some of the other

625
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: work that she was doing and entertainment was sawing down,

626
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 2: and her last TV appearance was in nineteen seventy six,

627
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 2: and the next year, on September first, nineteen seventy seven,

628
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: she died. So there is a quote from the author

629
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: Donald Bogel about her legacy. He said that she emerged

630
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: as perhaps television's most distinctive and important African American star

631
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: of the Eisenhower decade, not only the one African American

632
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 2: actress immediately known by face and name to the ever

633
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: growing television audience, but also the one black eye actress

634
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: who played a series of dramatic roles. Most significantly, ethel

635
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 2: Waters helped bridge the pre war and postwar eras, leading

636
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: to more modern depictions of African American women. That's the

637
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 2: end of his quote, and I just wanted to contextualize

638
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: that from a person who has done a lot of

639
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: studying on Ethel Water's biography and her history, because I

640
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: think it's not easy to condense a story that is

641
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 2: as has so many multitudes as Ethel Waters does into

642
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: this short period of time that we have today. It

643
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: was such a long and varied history of who she

644
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: was personally and how she presented through the work that

645
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: she did to the public, but also just to the

646
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: significance of the work that she did, which can't be

647
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: understated because she was a pioneer in these fields. And

648
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: also she did a lot of work to change the

649
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 2: genres that she worked in and how black women showed

650
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: up to the characters that they were playing and the

651
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 2: types of roles that were available to people, and the

652
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: importance of her work in this kind of transitional period

653
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: for entertainment. So she was credited and she did receive

654
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: her flowers and the work that she was did and

655
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: was inducted into some halls of fame. But yeah, she

656
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: was part of this history of other black women entertainers

657
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: who started out in vaudeville and kind of moved on

658
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: to other roles in film and theater. And we've even

659
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: talked about other people in some previous episodes of Female

660
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: First that were also in these realms. So people like

661
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: Cinciaretta Jones who we talked about, Madame Sultawan who was

662
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: an actress, and also Ellen Armstrong who was a magician,

663
00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: who were also made their ways in the performance field

664
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: their respective performance feels. So yeah, I recommend going back

665
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: and listening to those episodes too, if you're interested in

666
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: acting and singing and dancing and magic and other fields

667
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 2: of performance that black women were working in. Yeah.

668
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we always recommend going back and listening

669
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: to every episode US IS on Female First, which we do.

670
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: We like to rerun them a lot because the conversations

671
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 3: we have in them are so important and still ongoing

672
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 3: to this day. So for sure, go check them out.

673
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 3: I still think we're reaching another milestone, so we'll have

674
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: a celebrations.

675
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 2: Yes.

676
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 4: I also want to point out that one of my

677
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 4: favorite authors, which is Carson McCullers, who is the author

678
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: of the Member of the Wedding, when you were talk

679
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 4: about I was like, I.

680
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: Know what this one.

681
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, nice, I got very excited for her.

682
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, because as you were saying and

683
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: as Ethel Waters has said she's not spiritual. Actually she

684
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: she becomes an anti spiritual essentially towards the middle of her career.

685
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 4: All most of her books kind of it's satire against religion.

686
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 4: So I was like, she understood, understood what that was about.

687
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do wonder what was going through her

688
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: mind when she was while she was changing her mind.

689
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: What did they say exactly to convince her that it

690
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: was like more spiritual than she saw? And look at

691
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: it this way?

692
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 4: When you said that, I was like, what part to

693
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 4: that would have been more spiritual?

694
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: I wonder? I love this.

695
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna ask at the beginning because I

696
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: know you both know more about musicals than I was

697
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: if you would recognize any of this stuff.

698
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: So that wasn't what I was thinking that.

699
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: No, Yeah, because it's not a musical. That's part to that.

700
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 4: It's pretty it's a short story like when I play essentially,

701
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 4: but yeah, it's it's not a musical. Cartomkolors never wrote musicals,

702
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 4: but it was written as a play originally. For sure,

703
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 4: I've definitely heard these songs, but I don't know if

704
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 4: I've actually heard at the water rendition of story Waters

705
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 4: now what you say, and now I'm not to go

706
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 4: find it.

707
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yeah, she listened to her singing for sure.

708
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 2: I'm very excited.

709
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 3: I love when doing research involves kind of like listening

710
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: to music or like looking at art or reading a

711
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: poem or something. So always good. Yeah, this was a

712
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 3: fascinating history. I'd heard of eth the Waters, but I

713
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 3: didn't know all of this. So this is once again

714
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,959
Speaker 3: Eve's thank you so much. You're welcome for bringing this. Yeah,

715
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 3: we always love having you. Where can the good listeners

716
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: find you?

717
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 2: You can find me at Evesjeffcoat dot com, so you

718
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: can pretty much get anywhere from there. I'm on Instagram

719
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 2: at not Apologizing and on Twitter at Eve's Jeffcoat. And

720
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: you can also find me on many other episodes of

721
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: Sminty doing female First about plenty of other women like

722
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: some of the ones I mentioned at the end of

723
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: this episode, and you can go check those out. They're

724
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 2: there for your listening pleasure.

725
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: They are any they are well.

726
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: Thank you again, Eves, and if you would like to

727
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 3: contact does you can our emails Stuff Media mom Stuff

728
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 3: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter

729
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: at mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok that

730
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 3: stuff I've Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We

731
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 3: also have a book. You can reorder it that stuff

732
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 3: you should read books dot com. We also have a

733
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,479
Speaker 3: tea public store. I'm wearing some new merch right now,

734
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: so you should check that out. Thanks as always to

735
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our

736
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 3: contruder Joey.

737
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 4: Thank you and thanks to you for.

738
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: Listening Stuff I Never told you the protection of iHeartRadio.

739
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 3: For more podcast or my heart Radio, you can check

740
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 3: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

741
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 3: listen to your favorite shows,