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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jana Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hannah, No, hey, wait, are we starting right now? Okay,

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Speaker 2: oh we're now, We're going straight into it. No, Hannah's gone,

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Speaker 2: but Hannah's coming back. This is host chat everybody, and

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Speaker 2: Alan's starting and he's yelling at our producer. So Hannah,

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Speaker 2: you better get back on. Okay, I'm here, I'm not

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Speaker 2: I'm nervous.

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Speaker 3: What do you have, Alan, Hannah, do you think that

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Speaker 3: Jana swam with the dolphins and the cove?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I hope so.

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Speaker 2: No, Janna, you did it? Hannah.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what the cove was? Hannah? The cove

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Speaker 4: was a mail out in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 4: It was so I'm not a cove.

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Speaker 3: To sure the viewers of video, I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you guys can post the video.

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Speaker 2: Somehow, we can do it on wind down.

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Speaker 3: But I'll show you the video and it's yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: like shot dive in in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: So I was confused because I didn't think that they

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Speaker 2: would ever allow this, but apparently they do. And it

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Speaker 2: was not a cove, like it wasn't like a cute

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Speaker 2: little cove where you can see underneath you and.

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Speaker 3: It was the medal of the ocean. It was the

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Speaker 3: middle of the ocean. There's no other way to describe it.

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Speaker 3: The video will show that, uh huh, murky walls and

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Speaker 3: the middle of the ocean in Florida.

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Speaker 4: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: So Alan, Alan gave me this like literally the stare

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Speaker 2: of death. No, remember when you kind of you didn't

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Speaker 2: snap me on the boat, but you definitely gave me.

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Speaker 2: You gave me your Scottish like this isn't a coved

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Speaker 2: Johanna when you were about to like because the guy's

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Speaker 2: like telling everybody what to do on the boat.

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Speaker 3: So when the guys, the guy says, okay, sorry, just

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Speaker 3: then throw Okay, but the guy is like, okay, the

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Speaker 3: first thing you say is mask, and he tells you

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Speaker 3: mask three times. So mask, mask and then mask on,

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Speaker 3: mask on, mask on, and then you have to go

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Speaker 3: at the edge of the boat.

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Speaker 2: He's like, and at that point he's basically saying, listen,

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Speaker 2: these are wild animals and you are swimming with them

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Speaker 2: and you're in their territory and so you know they're

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Speaker 2: not just gonna send.

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Speaker 4: Four shots in four years.

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Speaker 2: Well we'll get to that. But so yeah, he says

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Speaker 2: mask on, mask on, mask on, and that's when everyone

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Speaker 2: needs to put their goggles on and then get to

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Speaker 2: the front of the boat and then you jump off

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Speaker 2: to just then look at them underneath the water and

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Speaker 2: then they'll sometimes swim around you. And so Alan was

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Speaker 2: the first to go because I was holding Roman and

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Speaker 2: when everyone said mask he said mask on, mask on,

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Speaker 2: mask on. It was Jace Jolie, and then there was

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Speaker 2: two sweet little instructor girls that were helping and uh,

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Speaker 2: nobody jumped out. Everyone got scared.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and then he starts to give us a lecture

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Speaker 4: of it tape.

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Speaker 3: And yeahs all of it time and it's all of

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Speaker 3: it tame and it's not met can shut up, I know,

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Speaker 3: but it's a bit tim and I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: time and I pick you up and launch you in

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Speaker 3: that ocean. Min if you tell me about time and

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Speaker 3: once more, I'm notgging in.

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Speaker 2: Well, you were about to. And then when we were

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Speaker 2: trying to find more dolphins in the ocean, you I

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Speaker 2: was like, all right, babe, like mascot, mascot, And that's

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Speaker 2: when you gave me the this isn't the cove, Johanna,

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Speaker 2: I'm not about this.

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Speaker 4: I'm like I didn't know so far from the cot.

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Speaker 2: I just figured it was a cove because who swims

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the ocean dolphins?

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Speaker 4: I was lied to.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know, do trust me because this episode is

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Speaker 2: all about trust.

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Speaker 3: I trust you, but I think you were I think

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Speaker 3: you had the perception of what you wanted it to

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Speaker 3: look like. In the reality of what it was was

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Speaker 3: very different. And also the night before I looked into

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Speaker 3: it and I thought, there's not a cove in these

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Speaker 3: videos or these pictures.

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Speaker 2: Well, it has to be saved because they do it

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Speaker 2: with the I was telling me. He's like, we swim

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Speaker 2: with autistic children and we have we take I got

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Speaker 2: all these different people and like, and I said, what aged?

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Speaker 2: Because I wouldn't let Jase go in there. I was like,

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Speaker 2: he's too young. I'm like, what age are you letting

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Speaker 2: these kids?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like you know four and up? And I'm

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Speaker 2: like what Okay.

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Speaker 3: So the night before I looked at googled stuff right

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Speaker 3: data and starts. So since twenty and twenty and I

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Speaker 3: told you this, God a coach and I told you this,

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Speaker 3: since twenty twelve in Florida waters, there's been two hundred

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Speaker 3: and sixty nine shark bites. Okay, uh huh.

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Speaker 4: Sixty seven of those shark bites have been in Panama.

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Speaker 3: City where we were swimming with dolphins in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the ocean. Sixty seven give up, Yeah, like this

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Speaker 3: was a week ago. I might be slightly wrong by

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Speaker 3: one or two.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Sixty seven incidents in one year.

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Speaker 4: No, since twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: Oh, okay, this is great. Okay, so there's been sixty

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Speaker 2: nine incidents. How many deaths?

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Speaker 4: Listen to me, Listen to me.

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Speaker 3: Two hundred and sixty nine shock bites bites recorded. That's

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Speaker 3: the ones that they know about. The other ones have

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Speaker 3: just been eating and they don't know about them.

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Speaker 2: I think they would.

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Speaker 3: One hundred and sixty nine shock bites recorded since twenty twelve,

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Speaker 3: and in Florida waters.

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Speaker 4: The biggest chunk of those chunk the good world.

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Speaker 3: The biggest percentage has been at Panama City where we

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Speaker 3: were swimming with dolphins in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 4: Sixty seven bytes.

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Speaker 2: Boom in since twenty twelve. Yeah, okay, can you guess

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Speaker 2: how many car accidents in Florida for a year? No,

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Speaker 2: it's a very valid question. How many car accidents do

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Speaker 2: you think happen in one year in Florida. One year?

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Speaker 4: Sorry, what did you say? How many shocks?

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Speaker 2: Okay? How many car accidents happen in one year in Florida?

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Speaker 3: This is a bit of necessity or the then you

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Speaker 3: you need to drive around in your car.

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Speaker 4: You don't need to swim in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: How many? Just kick a guess, how many car accidents

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Speaker 2: do you think there are are in Florida? Would you

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Speaker 2: just please answer the question? You're so stubborn.

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Speaker 3: That's so relevant, it's not it bails, releve no relevance

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Speaker 3: whatsoever to this.

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Speaker 2: You just take a guess because I'm just curious.

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Speaker 4: One is the necessity and one is a choice. Okay,

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Speaker 4: what's the question?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, how many car how many accidents? Car

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Speaker 2: accidents in a year in Florida?

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Speaker 4: Are I find an accident? Is it a bumm? No,

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Speaker 4: one's injured?

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Speaker 2: You're killing me right now? How many ten thousand, four

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand?

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Speaker 4: Okay? Okay, what's your point?

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Speaker 2: My point is the chances of actually, like, like she said,

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Speaker 2: the girl that was because here's the deal. Jolie was

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Speaker 2: so excited to go in that water and swim with dolphins.

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Speaker 2: And so when I'm asking, all right, what are the

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Speaker 2: statistical statistics, what are the facts when it comes to

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Speaker 2: all of this, because we risk our lives every day

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Speaker 2: we get car you can get a car accident.

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Speaker 4: And what was the guy's response. Sharks don't swim.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't swim near dolphins. He's like you, He's like,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to see they don't want to be

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Speaker 2: by the dolphins. They don't when they're all together like that,

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Speaker 2: they're they're not. There's not sharks around. He said something

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Speaker 2: that was to that effect where he was just like,

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Speaker 2: they don't. They don't like to be around each other,

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Speaker 2: so you know, and she was like, we only saw one,

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Speaker 2: like four in the last four years. So she saw

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Speaker 2: one a year. You've seen one shark a year.

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Speaker 4: Seen she's seen one.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. They don't they don't actually want to hurt us.

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Speaker 4: This is a whole different conversation.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling somebody has a hard time not trusting.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Marquis Flora the Wolds.

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Speaker 2: And I agree with the markiness, which was not my

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Speaker 2: favorite thing, which is why I didn't do it. It freaked

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Speaker 2: me out.

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Speaker 4: So let's let's play a game. Here. Okay, let's play

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Speaker 4: a game.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what we're doing today, babe, Well today we're going

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Speaker 3: out in a boat. Forget the dolphins, right, forget the dolphins.

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Speaker 3: Take the dolphins out of the picture. Do they ever

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Speaker 3: going out in a boat? Probably a mile off shore

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Speaker 3: two dark murky waters in Florida to any area, which

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Speaker 3: again which is the highest the highest percentage of shark bites.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, we're just going to go in a boat.

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Speaker 4: We're going to jump off, and we're going to swim.

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Speaker 2: My issue with it was is just because.

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Speaker 3: You had just because you had dolphins in there, doesn't

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Speaker 3: make it safer, Like just mask it over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's going to someone who owns a motorcycle really

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Speaker 2: just can't I don't think can be invited into this conversation.

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Speaker 4: My mother listens to this podcast.

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Speaker 2: And just say, you know, mom, he has he has

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Speaker 2: not written it because he doesn't have a license. It

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Speaker 2: just sits in our garage like a museum. All right,

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Speaker 2: Well that was fun. Did we did you have fun

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Speaker 2: on fall Break? Minus that, I thought the boat ride

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Speaker 2: was actually a lot of fun. The kids really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 4: It was a great trip. Yeah, really good trip.

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Speaker 2: It's really fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, it was. It was passing.

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Speaker 2: So let's change gears. We did all survive. Let's we

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Speaker 2: also think we need to live our lives too. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So we have Lisa Turkhurst coming on the show and

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Speaker 2: she's got a new book out called I Want to

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Speaker 2: Trust You But I Don't, which is also, in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: such a genius title for a book, because I think

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Speaker 2: that's a phrase that people. So many people have said,

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Speaker 2: I want to trust you, but.

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Speaker 4: I don't before an incident, an incident.

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Speaker 2: I think it could be both. It could be something.

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Speaker 2: It could be someone like I could probably have said

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Speaker 2: to someone I want to trust you, but I don't

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Speaker 2: because I've had so much tresture. Is trust issues in

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Speaker 2: the past, or I've been hurt before, or maybe someone

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Speaker 2: did you know, treated and I want to trust you

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Speaker 2: but I don't because you did X, Y and Z

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Speaker 2: or so I think it's just I think it's really

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Speaker 2: that bug. Title grabs me. Yeah, what's your relationship with trust?

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Speaker 2: Do you trust me?

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Speaker 3: Are there a trust a year? One hundred percent? My

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Speaker 3: relationship is not worth Yeah, it's with trust. But I

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Speaker 3: think there's a period in my life where I because

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Speaker 3: of because of mistrust and because of certain situations, I

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Speaker 3: almost became and Lisa touches on it a little bit

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Speaker 3: like trying not to become cineco mm hm. And unfortunately

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Speaker 3: I have become a slight cynicist and that's not and listen,

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Speaker 3: that's not a relationship thing. That's that's in general, like

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Speaker 3: my industry is, it's cutthroats, so it becomes a little

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Speaker 3: bit cynical of people's intentions.

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Speaker 2: When do you think trust first came up in your life?

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Speaker 2: Trust issues? At what age? When was the first time

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Speaker 2: you're like, I don't trust this.

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Speaker 4: I think it was probably to trust myself.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the hardest. That's always the hardest.

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Speaker 3: For me when I was when I was a young footballer,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I don't trust myself to perform the

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Speaker 3: way I need to perform. So it was more it

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Speaker 3: was more of a belief thing, which kind of diminished

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Speaker 3: as I as I got older and more mature, and

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Speaker 3: shelf assurance took over. But I think my first memories

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Speaker 3: of trust but myself, like growing up, I had no

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Speaker 3: reason to mistrust anyone in my life.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been in a relationship where someone's cheated? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know the answer, but I'm just like,

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Speaker 2: what what have you done with that? Not trusting someone?

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Speaker 2: Has that gone into uh? Like when someone betrays your trust?

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Speaker 2: What happens to you? Then? Can you can you retrust?

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Speaker 2: Or are you the person that's like I'm out, I'm

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Speaker 2: done gone?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, unfortunately that's my That's the way I react that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is there a piece of you that's ever like,

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Speaker 2: do you think people can.

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Speaker 3: That's relationships, that's business, that's every every part of my life.

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Speaker 3: Now if I if I can't, If you've done something

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Speaker 3: but you've broken my trust, you're done, You're out.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's a world where people can regain

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Speaker 2: and regrow trust in a relationship after something like that?

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Speaker 4: I think so yeah, But just.

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Speaker 2: For you personally, yeah, well no, because that's that's that's

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Speaker 2: a hard thing for for me because I'm I'm such

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Speaker 2: a believer that people can change and can you can

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Speaker 2: trust again? But I know for me, I just I

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Speaker 2: can't do it again because of all the trauma that

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Speaker 2: I've been through with trust that I just turn into

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Speaker 2: the worst version of myself or I get angry and

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Speaker 2: just like just like literally the ugliest version of myself

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Speaker 2: when I can't trust someone, so I but I but

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Speaker 2: I do believe that people can if someone like this,

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Speaker 2: you know, I sometimes I'll talk to people in my

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Speaker 2: DMS and this one girl is like, you know, he cheated,

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Speaker 2: and I just I really want to give it a try.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, I really do believe that you can

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Speaker 2: trust again. You got to form a new relationship, you

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Speaker 2: got to form new boundaries. He's got to show up

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Speaker 2: or got you both have to show up and and

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Speaker 2: you know, work on things. But if he does it

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Speaker 2: again and again, and then that's when it's like, all right,

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Speaker 2: that keeps fraying the trust. But I do think you

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Speaker 2: can do it. I just spent eight years of my

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Speaker 2: life trying to do that. And then I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I know now. I just I like, if anything we

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Speaker 2: all I know we talked about before, I'm like, if

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Speaker 2: anything ever happened with our trust, like I just couldn't

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Speaker 2: do it. It's I know, it's it takes over too much.

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Speaker 2: Which of my it's too it's it's like too much

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Speaker 2: of like a PTSD trauma for me. So I'm like,

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Speaker 2: if you were to cheat on me, like sorry, I

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Speaker 2: gave my ex husband the thirty chances, so I couldn't

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Speaker 2: give you. I couldn't give you a grace with that, and.

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Speaker 3: Then that's fine, and I wouldn't deserve grace because I'm

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Speaker 3: you'll now become a one and done and I'm always

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Speaker 3: been a one and done.

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Speaker 4: What one and done? You do it once? So I'm done.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you don't have to worry about that. But it's

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Speaker 2: interesting though, because for you, though you have, there's this

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Speaker 2: I don't maybe you just don't trust other people because

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you say you trust me, but then why

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Speaker 2: are you not okay in this situation or you know,

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Speaker 2: a certain situation.

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Speaker 3: I think I'll always trust you. They'll be they'll be

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Speaker 3: selling situations where you'll be in givin your movies. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: where I won't trust the lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's there. Because again, let's just relate

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Speaker 2: it back to the motorcycle. I trust you driving it.

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Speaker 2: I don't trust other people around you driving because you

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Speaker 2: don't have.

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Speaker 4: Your less I want.

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Speaker 2: It's so it's just gonna sit in a rush you

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Speaker 2: I have.

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Speaker 4: Cut its legs off. It's done that. We'll just sat there.

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Speaker 2: I can't. Okay, We're going to take a break and

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Speaker 2: then get least done. Oh my goodness, gracious. Hi.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you look beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: And I was just telling my husband here.

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Speaker 1: That I love that he's your husband.

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Speaker 2: I need to But the book title itself is I

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Speaker 2: was like, this is probably one of my favorite book

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Speaker 2: titles ever, thank you, because everybody has said that at

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Speaker 2: least one time in their life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, if they have a belly button, probably

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Speaker 1: many times in their life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, So obviously you've been on you know, multiple

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Speaker 2: times on here, and we've shared a lot of life together,

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Speaker 2: a lot of good times, a lot of hard times.

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Speaker 2: And I'm curious with this book because how much of

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Speaker 2: your past did you put into this book given kind

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Speaker 2: of where you're at now in your relationship.

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Speaker 1: Well, the main focus of the past was just acknowledging

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Speaker 1: what happened that exacerbated the issues with trusts that I

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Speaker 1: was having, but also trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: live life alone and then stepping in to a new

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Speaker 1: relationship but being triggered because of past pain. And there's

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Speaker 1: such a paper thin line between present discernment, like discernment

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Speaker 1: that something's wrong right now or is this just a

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Speaker 1: trigger because of something that happened in the past hm

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Speaker 1: and not wanting to hold chas accountable for things that

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Speaker 1: my ex husband did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a tough one. There's I mean there's

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Speaker 2: it's been few, but there's been times when you're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not your ex husband and I'm like, I know,

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Speaker 2: but I just I need to almost. Yes, you have

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Speaker 2: a full head of hair, flucky you.

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Speaker 1: She just got that.

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Speaker 2: She just got your accent with that one.

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Speaker 4: That was so good.

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Speaker 2: But no, it's like, you know, it's it's hard to

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Speaker 2: and I hear you on that because in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: I was telling my therapist when I first started, you know,

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Speaker 2: dating Alan, I'm like, this is a this lovely period

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Speaker 2: of him being so sweet and kind to me. Is

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Speaker 2: the artist thing to trust? I'm not even fearful that

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Speaker 2: he's gonna cheat on me. I'm more fearful. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: do I trust this lovely? Is this real? Is he real?

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Speaker 2: Is this is like? And so there's different levels of

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Speaker 2: trusting things. That doesn't have to be the bad stuff either,

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Speaker 2: So that must have been.

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Speaker 1: So you know, sometimes when you live in a really

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Speaker 1: tough situation, like a relationship, that's not just dysfunctional but destructive.

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Speaker 1: That those dysfunctional patterns feel normal, and so to step

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Speaker 1: outside of normal feel scary very well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: relate to that on such a big level, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I knew that I had to take quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of time before even stepping into the dating world,

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Speaker 1: or else I would be attracted to the same dysfunction

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Speaker 1: as before because that felt normal to me. Unfortunately, so

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Speaker 1: I had to really work on myself to identify pattern

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Speaker 1: in my life that were normal because I had to

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Speaker 1: respond in a dysfunctional situation. I had to survive a

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Speaker 1: dysfunctional situation, and so there were a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that I had to untangle and acknowledge about myself. So

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Speaker 1: those seasons of you know, that long season of being

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Speaker 1: alone served me really well. I just had to make

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Speaker 1: the decision that I was going to tell myself the

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Speaker 1: right story because of what happened. So much of our trauma.

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Speaker 1: It's not just what happens to us, but it's the

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Speaker 1: story we tell ourselves because of what happened to us.

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Speaker 1: And so I had to work on not being so

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Speaker 1: attracted to dysfunction because dysfunction felt normal. But also I

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Speaker 1: had to work on the story I was going to

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Speaker 1: tell myself, what do I really believe about me?

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, No, that's a huge piece. And Alan

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Speaker 2: and I were talking about that too, because I said,

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Speaker 2: in your life, like, what was the first thing that

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Speaker 2: you didn't trust? And he said, you know himself? And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, that was the hardest piece for me post

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Speaker 2: divorce was to trust myself because, like you said, I've

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Speaker 2: fell right into the pattern of dating the same kind

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Speaker 2: of person, that same unstableness. And then you know, to

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Speaker 2: be able to trust yourself and go all right, what

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Speaker 2: is what is the story? Who actually am I? What

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Speaker 2: do I want life to look like? So that's that's

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Speaker 2: a tough piece. And then and then going all right,

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Speaker 2: once you trust yourself, you're like, it's it's that feels

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Speaker 2: foreign too, because you're like, do I even trust this piece?

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Speaker 2: Like how do how do I even? How do I

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Speaker 2: do this?

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Speaker 4: So that's Lisa.

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Speaker 3: In your book you talk about blind trust and wise trust.

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Speaker 4: I've not read the section on that.

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Speaker 3: Can you elaborate a little bit more on that because

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Speaker 3: that kind of caught my eye when I was looking

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Speaker 3: through things today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes, and especially I think in the Christian world,

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Speaker 1: we confuse loving unconditionally with trusting unconditionally. We're never called

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Speaker 1: to trust unconditionally. We're just not. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it's really wise for us to take a step back

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Speaker 1: and recognize that trust is the oxygen of all human relationships.

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Speaker 1: But there are requirements for trust to exist. You cannot

401
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Speaker 1: rebuild trust that continues to get broken. So even when

402
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Speaker 1: Jesus says we're to forgive seventy times seven, that doesn't

403
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Speaker 1: mean that we have to stay in close proximity with

404
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Speaker 1: that person. It may mean we have to create enough

405
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Speaker 1: separation in distance that if that person does not stop

406
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Speaker 1: doing the behavior that's so hurtful to us that from afar,

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Speaker 1: we can forgive them seventy times seven without getting destroyed

408
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Speaker 1: in the process. So trust is very conditional, and it

409
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Speaker 1: should be so shifting from blind trust feeling like it's

410
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Speaker 1: kind of my Christian obligation to trust because that's what

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Speaker 1: Christians do to wise trust, of recognizing not all people

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Speaker 1: are trustworthy. As a matter of fact, it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Do you care if I nerd out just a little

414
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Speaker 1: bit on the cylical term? I love this. So in

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament, the word betah is what's used for

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Speaker 1: trees trustworthiness. When batah is directed toward God, it's always

417
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Speaker 1: in a positive sense. When batah is directed toward other humans,

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Speaker 1: it's almost always in a negative sense. That doesn't mean

419
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Speaker 1: we shouldn't trust anyone, but what it does mean is

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Speaker 1: that we can't put our trust in people so much

421
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Speaker 1: so that they become the stability or the instability of

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Speaker 1: our life. We have to put our trust in God,

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Speaker 1: who is the stable one, and then recognize that we

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Speaker 1: have a choice when it comes to trusting people. And

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Speaker 1: in order for trust to be there, it requires safety

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Speaker 1: and it requires connection. My problem is that I prioritized

427
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Speaker 1: safety so high after my divorce because I just didn't

428
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Speaker 1: want to take the risk of new relationships. So when

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Speaker 1: I prioritize safety so high, connection with other people was

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Speaker 1: very low. Then other people sometimes they are so dead

431
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Speaker 1: for it to keep the relationship that they overlook red flags,

432
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Speaker 1: they excuse things they shouldn't excuse so that they can

433
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Speaker 1: have that connection, But then they diminish their own safety.

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Speaker 1: And so what the goal for wise trust is to

435
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Speaker 1: bring safety and connection back in balance, because we want

436
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Speaker 1: relationships that are that are have good connection, yes, but

437
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Speaker 1: wise trust also requires that we're safe in that relationship.

438
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, well explained, Yeah, nice, Okay

439
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: this and you can you can pass on this too.

440
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of curious because I'm a I'm a

441
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 2: big believer that I believe that, like in kind of

442
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: like you said, I believe if someone uh were to

443
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: cheat on someone that if they actually do what they

444
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 2: say and then don't cheat again, I believe trust can

445
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: be restored. Now we've talked about it in our marriage

446
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: that I know, just because of all the trauma that

447
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 2: I've had with past affairs, I couldn't give that grace

448
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: this go around. I just couldn't do it. I just

449
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: I just couldn't do it. And so what have you

450
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: kind of thought of how you would be able to hand?

451
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 2: And again, Chaz is an angel, we love him, but like,

452
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: have you kind of thought about what you could do

453
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: this next time around if that actually happened.

454
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I had to have a really honest conversation

455
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: with Chaz about this because in his previous marriage there

456
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: was infidelity on both sides. So you know, that was

457
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: a really tough thing for me to wrestle through, and

458
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: so we had to have a lot of honest conversations

459
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: about this, and I said the same thing as you.

460
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: I don't have it to give this time around, like

461
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: there will be no grace period. And it's not that

462
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to have grace for any of your mistakes,

463
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: like I will have grace, lots of grace for your mistake,

464
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: but this one is just no, I'm not putting myself

465
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: through that again. And he said something that really helped

466
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: me a lot, and he said, Lisa, I am not

467
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: going to cheat on you because I'm never going to

468
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: cheat on myself again. And that gave me a different

469
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: kind of confidence to know that he was very in

470
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: tune with the horribly dark place that infidelity sent him

471
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: ten years before, and that he didn't want to do

472
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: that to himself, so he didn't want to do it

473
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: to me, but even more so, he didn't want to

474
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: ever do that to himself again. And he's so hyper

475
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: aware of the consequences, all of the destruction, all the damage,

476
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: all of the horrible dark places that that sent him,

477
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: that I believe him. And it's almost, in this strange way,

478
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: it's almost a relief for me to know he knows

479
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: the severity of those consequences for himself, because he's not

480
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: just being told how hard it would be. He's not

481
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: just being told by me, I don't have the grace

482
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: to give. But he has personally experienced that kind of

483
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: darkness and he doesn't ever want to return.

484
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, No, that's that's powerful because the ripple

485
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: effect is is it's not just you guys, it's it's

486
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: family is being torn apart, and yeah, and then just

487
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 2: feels awful.

488
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 3: That's the worst thing ever, it really is. It real

489
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 3: divorce does the infidelity and the ends the destruction of

490
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: the divorce period, which can be worse mm hmm than

491
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: the actual infidelity and the actions. You also mentioned about

492
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: not becoming cynical because of things that have happened and

493
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: carrying that broken belief system into whether it's a new relationship,

494
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 3: whether it's a new business or whatever it may be.

495
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 3: So I'd appeared in my life which was kind of destructive,

496
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: and since then I have become a lot more cynical.

497
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: And I think it's a mistrusting not our relationship, but

498
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 3: it's a mistrust in people's intentions, whether it's whether it's business,

499
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: or whether it's whether it's sport, or whether it's professional sport.

500
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: I now have a thing in my head where I

501
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 3: won't trust you until I know I can trust you,

502
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: rather than it be and I used to be I'll

503
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: trust you until I can't trust you, but now I'm

504
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 3: almost like, I don't trust you until you can prove

505
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 3: to me that you can trust me.

506
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 4: And that's.

507
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 3: Relationship, that's business, that's sport. And I've kind of carried

508
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: that for the last probably three three or four years,

509
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to come out of it, but I

510
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: still have this. I still have this thing where if

511
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: I meet someone you in business of sport, my first

512
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 3: thought is, Okay, how are you, how are you gonna

513
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: how are you going to shaft me here? Or how

514
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: are you going to do it? And it's a it's

515
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: a horrible way to be. And I'm getting better now

516
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: and I'm slowly coming out of it. But I don't

517
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 3: have a I don't have a broken belief system, but

518
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 3: I have become a lot more cynical based on that

519
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 3: period in my life. Do you have any wants or

520
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 3: advice to to help with that?

521
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, first of all, I want to say, of

522
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: course you have tentative feelings around trusting people because when

523
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: your trust has been broken over and over, it can

524
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: start to feel like all people are manipulative, or all

525
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: people are eventually going to hurt you, all people are

526
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: just in it for themselves, And so I just want

527
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: to say, of course you feel that way. I think

528
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: anybody who goes through enough experiences where they experience themselves

529
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: tells you not to trust people. Eventually you're going to

530
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: kind of get clued in that sometimes it is really

531
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: tough to trust people. But the important thing is, and

532
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: this I had to study this a lot because Jana knows.

533
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: Like I remember on our last podcast, Jana, I wrote

534
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: about you in the book by the Way, because you,

535
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: I was just saying, yeah, I don't think that I'm

536
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: ever gonna go there again. I feel like I'm too old.

537
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: But also I think I've just been through too much.

538
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: And you said to me, never too late, Lisa, It's

539
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: never too late, and then you referred to me on

540
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: other podcasts as never too late. Do y'all remember never

541
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: too late? And I just knew exactly what you're talking about.

542
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: My girls they would call me and like Janna mentioned,

543
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: never too late again, as you would kind of.

544
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: No, it's just never too late.

545
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: But it was so it was so encouraging to me.

546
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: But it really helped inspire the chapter on Red Flags

547
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: and Roots of Distrust. The purpose of that chapter is

548
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: to identify these eleven red flags, and they they're on

549
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: like various ends of the spectrum. So most severe is

550
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: immorality and probably one of the least severe is irresponsibility.

551
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: You know, so when you say you don't trust someone,

552
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: it could be because you think they don't have a

553
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: moral compass, or it's because the last time they said

554
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: they were going to do a favor for you, they

555
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: forgot and drop the ball, so that was irresponsible. But regardless,

556
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: we're using the same word trust for a whole spectrum

557
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: of occurrences, right, And so in this chapter the Eleven

558
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: Red Flags and Roots of Distrust, there's three purposes that

559
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: it's really crucial to look through. This is because it

560
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: will help us identify what are the red flags that

561
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: are actually emerging that are giving me these feeling that

562
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: I can't trust this person, and it helps to know

563
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: what category it is, where is it actually coming from.

564
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing is to recognize what kind

565
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: of when I say I don't trust this person, what's

566
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: really at the heart of that, what are they doing

567
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: repetitively that makes me feel so on edge. The second

568
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: thing is if we don't tend well to those red

569
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: flags in a relationship, they will form roots of distrust,

570
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: and those roots of distrust create simmering resentments, and simmering

571
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: resentments is the number one killer of relationships today, so

572
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: it's really important. The third thing is red flags and

573
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: roots of distrust. As I was writing this, I finished

574
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: the chapter and then reread it, and I was like,

575
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: what the heck, Oh my gosh, I see some of

576
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: this in me, Like I do some of these things,

577
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: and I'm probably feeding a distrust in other people. So

578
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: it created self awareness, which was the third purpose of

579
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: that chapter that I didn't even know was going to

580
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: be a purpose of that chapter. But I think that's

581
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: one of the most important parts of the book because

582
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: trust is built time plus believable behavior, and so over

583
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: a course of time, if somebody constantly does something that's

584
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: behavior that wears away your trust, then trust cannot be built.

585
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: But if you have a conversation about it, they recognize

586
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: what is this thing that they're doing, or what is

587
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: this red flag that you've become aware of then you

588
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: can work on that theme. And so it may be

589
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: as simple as like, hey, Jana, it's really crucial that

590
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: you know you show up on time because when you

591
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: show up on time, that creates within me deeper trust

592
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: in you that you respect my time, that you care

593
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: about me, and that you know that we're going to

594
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: be able to go to things without me feeling the

595
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: anxiety of being late. And so you can have those conversations.

596
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: But even something as small as like not showing up

597
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: on time, over time can become a root of distrust,

598
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: which can create simmary resentments. So all of these eleven

599
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: red flags are really important to consider.

600
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, totally, But for him to go in like

601
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: straight up just not trusting someone, is that what piece

602
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: of that can can be? Is there anything in that

603
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: that can maybe help too, because maybe this person hasn't

604
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: even done anything like I I haven't you know, I'm

605
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: not going to cheat on you, but you might have

606
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: come in first because you've been cheated on your past

607
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: with that she's gonnait me over. I don't know if

608
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: you ever felt that way, but have you felt that

609
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: with previous relationships?

610
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 3: Posture and my reference to becoming cynical was not just

611
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: based on my divorce. It's based on that talk that yeah, yeah, well,

612
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: there's loads of things in my life that happened that well,

613
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: that brought a lot of trauma to my life. But

614
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 3: the an add to that, I didn't trust my own

615
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 3: decision making because there was a it was a pay

616
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: where I was also irresponsible with some of my decision making.

617
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 4: So it's a culmination of of everything.

618
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 3: So it's not it's not a case of as soon

619
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: as I meet someone and I'm like, I don't trust you,

620
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't say it to myself, I don't

621
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 3: trust you. It's almost like I'm just waiting on it, right, Okay,

622
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: when's it going to come?

623
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: Is that something you've done with me?

624
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: Though I'm here and it's it's more.

625
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: It's actually more in professional sport and in business than

626
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: that is in personal relationship.

627
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: I am going to slightly disagree with you here because

628
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: of your house in the in the woods. There's this

629
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: can I share unless you don't want me to share?

630
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: When there can be when there's conflicts. Sometimes he goes

631
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: and it's a it's a made up place, but it's

632
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 2: a place for him where it's his cabin in the woods.

633
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 2: So his first instinct is to just be alone and

634
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: detach and be alone. And it's like, no, let's come together,

635
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: let's figure this out. Let's like, don't go to the woods,

636
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: you know what i mean. I'm always like when I

637
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: can see him going, I'm like, let's you know. But

638
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: it's like he just is like up, everyone's screwing me

639
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: over and she's gonna leave, and then I'm going to

640
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: go to my cabin and be alone in the woods,

641
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm like no, no, no, like you're not.

642
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm gonna confind you in the woods. Then

643
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: whenever cabin you're going to, I'm gonna find you. But

644
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: that piece, I'm like, I don't know sometimes why you

645
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: go to that place of everyone's going to abandon you

646
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: because something like that. I'm I'm here willing and like

647
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: trying to like work on it, you know, and any

648
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: not thing we have, like these big things, but you

649
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: know what i mean, Like that's just when it does happen.

650
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: When it does happen, yeah, yeah, Well, sometimes the riskiness

651
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: of relationships can feel like too much to someone who's

652
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: had repetitive bad experiences. In a certain area of their

653
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: life with other people. And what I hear you saying is,

654
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, in business and in sports, that just seems

655
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: to be a breeding ground for people taking advantage of

656
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: other people. And here's the thing about safety. Safety is

657
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: one of the crucial ingredients for trust. It's safety and connection.

658
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: But you don't need to just be told that you're safe.

659
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: You need to feel it for yourself. If you don't

660
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: feel it for yourself, then people can give lip service

661
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: all day long. But there's no way around that. It's

662
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: time plus believable behavior. So it's that believable behavior part.

663
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: It's their actions that show you over time that they

664
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: are trustworthy, that they are good, that they do have

665
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 1: your best interests in mind. And you know, there's really

666
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: no other way around it. And so of course you

667
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: feel skeptical, but you don't want your past hurt from

668
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: other people to start hindering your present and future relationships,

669
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: because skepticism has a way of not just wanting to

670
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: be a thought, it wants to be the consuming thought.

671
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: And so you know, while you're looking for believable behavior

672
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: in other people, but you also have to manage some

673
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: of those thoughts and instead of assuming that they're going

674
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: to hurt you just say I'm not going to assume

675
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: either way, but I am going to pay attention to

676
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: their behavior now. And you know that's there's really no

677
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: other way around it, just to look for it's time

678
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: plus believable behavior. Yeah.

679
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: My therapist is always saying too, like what is what

680
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: do you see today? You know, not what she felt

681
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: five years ago. It's like, what do you what do

682
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: you see today?

683
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 4: Like?

684
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: What is what is in front of you? What is

685
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: this person doing? You know? As opposed to letting in,

686
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 2: it's just it's hard right to sometimes stay in that

687
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 2: present state.

688
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: It's really hard. And you know, alan you might enjoy

689
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: the last book that I wrote, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes.

690
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: It talks about how this was really eye opening for me,

691
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: how the mistake that I kept making is that I

692
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: was giving level ten access to people who hadn't proven

693
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: themselves trustworthy and they were only bringing like a level

694
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: three responsibility. And so I thought, well, I'm going to

695
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: put a boundary on them and make them be more responsible.

696
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: But we both know you cannot force another person to

697
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: change if they're unwilling or incapable of making those changes.

698
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: So this difference here, that's where dysfunction grows, that's where

699
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: skepticism grows. So what we have to do then is

700
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: put a boundary on ourselves and reduce the level of

701
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: access that we grant those people down to their demonstrated

702
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: level of responsibility. So we never want to give them

703
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: more access than what they've proven that they can be responsible.

704
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 2: With that access.

705
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, nice, thank you.

706
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you go in on the top

707
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: or the bottom and not a position?

708
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,479
Speaker 3: John was actually really inconsistent because there's some people where

709
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 3: and it depends what the subject is. But there's some

710
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: situations that I'll go in and I'll almost say, Okay,

711
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: I'll go in and I'll give them access to this

712
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 3: information or this whatever it may be. And then there's

713
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: other times I'll go in and I'm just a completely

714
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: closed book, like you're getting nothing. Yep, you're getting nothing.

715
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: You can open up if you want, but I'm not

716
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: opening up. So I'm still not even I've not even

717
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: found that balance. So that's a good way of putting it.

718
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: So if I if I go on at a level ten,

719
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: level zero, if I go in at a level five

720
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: and keep myself at level five, almost until I can

721
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: see people creeping towards that. Then I'll feel I'll get

722
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 3: less anxiety about like even like IP I get. I

723
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: get really paranoid about people stealing IP. Like yesterday, I'm

724
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: on a call to a guy. He's like, yeah, send

725
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: me over your report on this player, and I've just

726
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: explained to them that this is my highest level of

727
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 3: offering product I offer.

728
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 4: I was like, you, I'll send it over.

729
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: What you need to sign an NDA, and he's like, yeah, no,

730
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 3: Wordy's no problem at all. He's like, send the NDA

731
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: one day and then send your report on its same

732
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: So straight away I go to okay, NDA, fustling in

733
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 3: my head.

734
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely have seen you go in on

735
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: both both things, and you were you don't trust a

736
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: lot of people right off the bat. It takes a

737
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: it takes a minute, but it's not a bad thing.

738
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think that's a bad thing.

739
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: I sometimes have trusted way too much.

740
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: Me too, I have too, and so I have to

741
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: be careful not to swing the pendulum from being the

742
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: person who trusted everybody with everything to trusting nobody with anything.

743
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: You know, But you can also extend people limited trust.

744
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: You don't have to. It's not a all or nothing thing.

745
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: You know, you can trust them with a little bit

746
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: and see if they're good stewards of that little bit

747
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: of trust, and then increase it over time. But it

748
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: all requires time. You know.

749
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: What do you think is the biggest red flag that

750
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: you that you write about, especially in the book Inconsistency?

751
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yep, when someone it's so confusing and so hard

752
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: for me and such a huge trigger when somebody is

753
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: great for a certain period of time, but then they

754
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden shift really quickly into not so

755
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: great and then shift back to that love bombing of no, no, no, no,

756
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: I really am great and you're great, and we're great

757
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: in all of that. And that's one of the things

758
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: that I love so much about Chaz. He is very

759
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: very consistent. And of course, I mean, like in all relationships,

760
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: we have things we want to work on. But I

761
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: love his consistency. I love that I can count on

762
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: when he wakes up in the morning, he's going to

763
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: be happy. I can count on that, you know. I

764
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: know that I can count on him to be willing

765
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: to circle back and talk to me about things, even

766
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: if he needs to go to his equivalent of the

767
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: cabin in the woods or you know, but that consistency

768
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: has been so, so so important to me. Another one

769
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: is incongruity. You know. It's when someone's insides don't match

770
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: their outsides, and so they say something that gives the

771
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: appearance that they're one way, but inside your experience with

772
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: them is very, very different than what they're portraying, and

773
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 1: so that incongruity creates so much friction. And honestly, I

774
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: saw in my previous relationship that it was the incongruity

775
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: that in the end made me finally just stand up

776
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: and say enough, Like, I'm not walking away from this relationship,

777
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: but I am accepting the reality that if you don't

778
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: want to change, I cannot change you. I have been

779
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: working harder on you than you're working on yourself, and

780
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: the insides don't match the outsides, and oftentimes what you

781
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: say on the outside the inside takes over and becomes

782
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: activities that I'm no longer willing to be subject to.

783
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: So I think some of those, and of course, immorality

784
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: is a huge one. You want someone to have a

785
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: moral compass, you know, Consistency and incongruity are two of

786
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: the other red flags that are really really for me,

787
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: really crucial.

788
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like too, where I find sometimes trigger

789
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 2: is coming up is where I'm like, you say this

790
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: and then someone it says. If someone says something and

791
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: then they say something else we're on the same subject,

792
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, which one is it? Like, I'm like,

793
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: because you said this and now it's this, So it's

794
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 2: like I have a hard time trusting that piece of things. Yeah,

795
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: And that's like a massive trigger from the past too,

796
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: because it doesn't feel consistent like you just said, it

797
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: goes back to and I'm like, oh, it's tough.

798
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: It is tough. And another one that is really triggering

799
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: to me is insincerity. When someone says something but you

800
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: walk away and you're like, I don't think that person

801
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: really meant what they said. I think I think they

802
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: were trying to give some kind of impression that they

803
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: like me more than they actually like me, And I

804
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: don't trust what they're going to say, Like they say

805
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: one thing to me, but it feels so insincere because

806
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: I just have a feeling you're going to say something

807
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: else to someone else. And so that insincerity really became

808
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: bothersome to me. And here's the thing about their eleven

809
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: red flags too, is that they're going to be different

810
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: levels of seriousness for different people, based on your past history,

811
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: based on your experiences, based on just how you're wired.

812
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: So like some people, insincerity may not be that big

813
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: of a deal. Maybe they're in a shallow industry and

814
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: they they've dealt with that so long that it doesn't

815
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: really hit them the way that it would hit me,

816
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, And so you know, I think it's I

817
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: think it's That's why that's one of my most favorite

818
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: parts of the book is just because I think it

819
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: creates a lot of relational awareness and self awareness and

820
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: can become really helpful when you get that ick feeling

821
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: that you don't trust someone but you can't quite figure

822
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: out why. That chapter will help you figure out why.

823
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: For someone that's listening that is going through obviously trust issues,

824
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: get the book, But what is the biggest kind of

825
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: I don't want to say takeaway, but to be able

826
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: to trust again. I know it's time and consistency, but

827
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: is there something else where You're like, this is something

828
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: that I would encourage people to know or to do.

829
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: Yes. So in the chapter on rips and repairs. For

830
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: every rip in a relationship, there has to be a repair.

831
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: You can't skip that process. And if it's a really

832
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: big rip, then it's going to need a really big repair.

833
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: And I know you can probably relate to this, Jenna,

834
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: is you know one of the very first steps on

835
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: a pretty big rip in a relationship is full disclosure.

836
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: Because if there isn't full disclosure, and if what happens

837
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: is they're only willing to admit what you've caught them doing,

838
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: then that's going to be a really hard dynamic to

839
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: repair trust in, especially if they don't give a full

840
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: disclosure and you catch them, but then you continue to

841
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: find out more information that they weren't honest about up front.

842
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: That's going to make that repair process like really really

843
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: really hard, if not impossible. But the other thing is

844
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: is not just the full disclosure, but also recognizing they

845
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: need to recognize what this costs you, because every trauma

846
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: is too parts it's fact and it's impact. So there's

847
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: the fact of what they did that they need to

848
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, repent from or say they're sorry or own

849
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: it whatever. But then they they're going to have to

850
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: be really patient with you as the impact becomes like

851
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: that's almost like when you have the triggers. That's when

852
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: you're made aware of how much this cost you. And

853
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: they've got to be really sensitive to that cost and

854
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: be incredibly patient. And here's how you know someone is

855
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: really sincere about wanting to repair or not repair, is

856
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: if you get triggered in your pain and you say, hey,

857
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: can I look at your phone because I'm just not

858
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: feeling good about when I just walked in, I saw

859
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: you swipe really quick and put it in your back pocket,

860
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: and it's making me incredibly anxious. Their response to that

861
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: will tell you a lot. If they say, seriously, you're

862
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: not over this, like we're going to deal with this again,

863
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: Like you're crazy, I'm not doing anything wrong.

864
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: I have so many triggers and chills happening in my

865
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 2: body right now.

866
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: I know, right. And so if that's their response, Look,

867
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: where there's smoke, there is a fire, and whether it

868
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: is a candle fire or whether it's a full blown

869
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: house fire, regardless, even if you hold your cand over

870
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: a candle long enough, you're going to get burned. So

871
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: where there's smoke, there is a fire. You may not

872
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: know what the fire is, but that's not a good

873
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: sign when they get super defensive like that and accusatory

874
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: towards you. If the response is, of course, you need

875
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: to look at my phone, like here's my phone, here's

876
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: my password, and if you have any questions, tell me

877
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: what you need. Do you need to look at the

878
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: phone and that's it. Do you need to look at

879
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: the phone and talk about it? Do you need me

880
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: to sit down and hold you for a minute because

881
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: I want to assure you you're safe, Like how can

882
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: I best assure you you're safe right now? Then that

883
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: kind of response is all so such an amazing trust

884
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: builder because you know that they have enough humility to

885
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: care about you in that moment, And chances are if

886
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: they're being that open and honest, then that trigger wasn't

887
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: because of present concerns. It may have just been a

888
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: trigger because of past pain.

889
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 2: M Yeah, that piece is. I feel like that's always

890
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 2: really hard for them, Like the perpetrator wants to sweep

891
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: it and move on and like hurry up and go,

892
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 2: let's you know, I've I told you, I'm sorry and

893
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm changing and I'm doing X, Y and Z and

894
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: now kind of get over it. And I remember that

895
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: being something in my past too, where I'm just like

896
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: our therapist had said one time, imagine you were driving

897
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 2: a car and you got into the worst car ecid,

898
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 2: her legs were completely cut off. Would you tell her

899
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: to just move on and she has to get over

900
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: it in two months, like you chopped her legs off,

901
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 2: you know, like she can't walk, and even then, I

902
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: don't think anything visually helped that situation. But but yeah,

903
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 2: I thought it was a good visualize visualization. But yeah,

904
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's I get wanting to like move

905
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: on and not get into it. But like you said,

906
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 2: like those gifts that you can give that person that

907
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 2: you hurt, the trust, having that patience, I know it's hard,

908
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: but you also cause this impact, like you know, so.

909
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely there's a there's a good saying that Chas has

910
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: from years and years and years of going to AA meetings,

911
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: And it's nine miles in, nine miles out. If it

912
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: took you nine miles to get into this situation, it's

913
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: going to take you nine miles to get out of it.

914
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: So like the more severe the distrust that has formed,

915
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: the more severe the broken trust, the more you know

916
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: length it's going to take to repair it. But the

917
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: most important thing to remember is you cannot repair trust

918
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: that continues to get broken.

919
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: Like that is the biggest piece, one thousand percent. That's

920
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 2: what I tell people that will DM me. And I'm like, listen,

921
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: I'm always willing to give a grace at one time,

922
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 2: but if I my girl, if it happens again, you

923
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: gotta like this is that's not it? You know, like

924
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: they're going to keep doing it again and again.

925
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: We all make mistakes. Look, yeah, all make mistakes, but

926
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: there is such a big difference between a mistake and

927
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: a pattern pattern. Yep, you know. A mistake is something

928
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: like Okay, we can go to counseling for this, we

929
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: can talk about this whatever. But when it is a

930
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: pattern of behavior, that is the breeding ground for dysfunction,

931
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: which is the breeding ground left unaddressed for destructive realities

932
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: and a relationship. And there's a big difference between a

933
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: difficult marriage and a destructive marriage. And I didn't understand

934
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 1: that for a long time, but I understand it now.

935
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: Girl, do we ever? And look at us now? You

936
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: know we've really come a long way.

937
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: We really have, And you are so right. It is

938
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 1: never too late, Jana.

939
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: It is never too late for anyone. And can I

940
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: just what is your to close this out? What is

941
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: your favorite Bible verse on trust? One of them? I

942
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: know there's a bunch.

943
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, believe it or not, it's going to be

944
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: one that is about the Lord. And it doesn't even

945
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: have the word trust in it. But it's Matthew five

946
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: eight blessed or the pure in heart, for they will

947
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: see God. And the reason I love that so much

948
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 1: is it doesn't say blessed is the perfect person. It

949
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: doesn't say blessed is the person with the perfect life

950
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: that they'll see God. No, it's blessed as that person

951
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: who wants to see God, and then they will. And

952
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: the more I know that God is with me and

953
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: that He is the stabilizing force of my life, the

954
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: less fearful I am of the risk that all relationships require.

955
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: And so that one became really important to me. And

956
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: let me, can I close with just a really quick story,

957
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: jan I can.

958
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: Say, please, oh my gosh, yes, Okay.

959
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: So at the very end of the book there's a

960
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: chapter called Rebellious Acts of Resisience. And you know me,

961
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: I'm not your friend that you would ever describe as rebellious, right.

962
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 2: No, I have to like teach you how to say

963
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: the fuc k word.

964
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: No, not gonna.

965
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 2: I won't say it exactly. She's like, only Jana I

966
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 2: can say that.

967
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: But okay. So I went to the beach with a

968
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 1: couple of my friends. Their names were Jess and Anne,

969
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: and we got down to the beach and the one

970
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: thing that I really wanted was a little cooler with

971
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: ice in it to put my egg salad sandwich, my

972
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: little fruit, my diet coke, and my water and it

973
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to be on ice. And so that's like

974
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: a really important part of my beach trip. I know

975
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: that that sounds boring, but that's me. Okay. Well, I

976
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: went to use the ice maker at the place we were at,

977
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: and the ice maker was broken. And I do not

978
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: know why I had such an out of proportion reaction

979
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: ice maker being broken, but I was literally standing in

980
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: the kitchen with my fist going.

981
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 5: If he would have never cheated, then I would still

982
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 5: be married. And if I was still married, he would

983
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 5: know how to fix the ice maker. And now I

984
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 5: can't have ice. And another thing he's ruined for me

985
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 5: is my beach to day.

986
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: Okay, that is so immature, and I recognize that, but whatever, Okay.

987
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: I was very upset and I stopped myself and I

988
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: thought to myself, I keep saying I can't fix the

989
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: ice maker, but what if I could? So I googled

990
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: instructions to see. I'm like, what's the worst that can happen?

991
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: It's already broken. I break it worse. And I googled instructions.

992
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: I cannot follow written instructions to save my life. But

993
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: then I remembered the gift of the YouTube. So youtubed

994
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: instructions and there's a video and Jana as God is

995
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: my witness. I fixed that ice maker, and when that

996
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: ice came down, it was such an epic moment of

997
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: victory for me because what I realized is, yes, that's

998
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: took a lot from me, it really did, But that

999
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: season could also give me a lot if only I

1000
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: will watch. I cannot say I can't and I don't

1001
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: because those cants and dolts will turn into won't. Sometimes

1002
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: it's true we can't. Sometimes it's true we don't. But

1003
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to reduce my life down to the

1004
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: limitations of living hurt and broken trust. While it can

1005
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,720
Speaker 1: be life altering. It doesn't have to be life ruining.

1006
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: I love that, and I one thousand percent agree with you. Yeah,

1007
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,919
Speaker 2: I love it. Well, thank you for coming on. I'm

1008
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 2: going to order the book because I love you and

1009
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: it's we all, you know, we all, whether it's friendships, marriages,

1010
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 2: pass you all struggle with trust, so everyone will get

1011
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: I want to trust you, but I don't available now.

1012
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you all right? How are

1013
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 2: feeling about trust, babe? Were good? Yeah? I trust you.

1014
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 4: I trust you, sir?

1015
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: Okay, good, Let's go somewer sharks all right.

1016
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: Bye,