Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week my guests and I come
Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
Speaker 1: And who says?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
Speaker 1: to question everything. So there's this scene in the first
Speaker 1: Devil War's Prada, the one from two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: where Andy Sachs changes, and I don't mean just her clothes,
Speaker 1: it's her whole posture that shifts. She walks through Manhattan
Speaker 1: a completely different person, right, more confident, more radiant, more
Speaker 1: legible to the world around her, and the lesson The
Speaker 1: movie quietly hands us is this style is what you
Speaker 1: put on to become who the room expects you to be. Now,
Speaker 1: today's guest watch that movie. The year it came out,
Speaker 1: sitting in the offices of Vogue with her colleagues at
Speaker 1: Vogue at her first real job at Vogue, she called
Speaker 1: it extremely accurate, but she lasted eighteen months and Now
Speaker 1: Aaron Walsh is the stylus in partnership with some of
Speaker 1: the most iconic women in culture, Sarah Jessica Parker, Carrie Washington,
Speaker 1: Selena Gomez, and yes Anne Hathaway herself, which means as
Speaker 1: Devil Wears Prada, too enters the world, the woman who
Speaker 1: once watched the film as a junior fashion assistant is
Speaker 1: now the one dressing its star. It's kind of a
Speaker 1: full circle moment that sounds inventive. And here's what I
Speaker 1: find so interesting. Aaron's philosophy flips the original film's lesson
Speaker 1: completely on its head. The first movie asked what should
Speaker 1: I wear to become who they want me to be?
Speaker 1: Aaron asked the total opposite, Who do I want to be?
Speaker 1: And how do I start showing up as her right
Speaker 1: now to before anyone else has waited in It's the
Speaker 1: central question of her new book, The Art of Intentional Dressing.
Speaker 1: Her argument is that we don't get to control most
Speaker 1: of what happens to us, but we do control the rituals,
Speaker 1: the three words we choose for the day, the closet
Speaker 1: we walk into, the version of ourselves we decide to
Speaker 1: embody before the world even has a chance to ask
Speaker 1: anything of us.
Speaker 2: You don't get to decide how you wake up feeling.
Speaker 2: You don't get to decide what her balls get thrown
Speaker 2: your way. But you can keep reconnecting with that intention,
Speaker 2: and that's what's going to keep you in integrity with
Speaker 2: yourself and that woman that you want to be.
Speaker 1: She calls closets portals of possibility and says that getting
Speaker 1: dressed can be a form of therapy, which I honestly
Speaker 1: thought might be nuts, but after talking with her, I'm
Speaker 1: fairly convinced she's right. So today we're getting into it.
Speaker 1: The three word practice she does every morning, why she
Speaker 1: thinks every woman needs to clean out her closet four
Speaker 1: times a year, what it actually feels like to dress
Speaker 1: someone for a moment that two hundred million people will see,
Speaker 1: And most importantly, the question we are circling, which is
Speaker 1: how should you be getting dressed? I'm just kidding. The
Speaker 1: question we're really circling, who do you want to be?
Speaker 1: In this room? It's time to question everything. With Aaron
Speaker 1: Walsh erin the Devil Wars Prodatu is about to come
Speaker 1: out into the world, and your connection to the movie
Speaker 1: feels so kismet because when I was looking into your background,
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, this is almost full circle. You have
Speaker 1: a real life Andy Sacks arc to your personal story
Speaker 1: going back to two thousand and six, Can you tell
Speaker 1: me about your introduction to the fashion world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I fell into fashion by accident. I went
Speaker 2: to NYU to be an actress, and I graduated and
Speaker 2: panicked and decided that did not seem like a proper
Speaker 2: route to success, and I just quit immediately. It was
Speaker 2: like within two months. I'd always loved clothes, I'd always
Speaker 2: been entrusted in fashion to the point like even growing up,
Speaker 2: I would like lie in bed thinking about outfits for
Speaker 2: going to sleep. But in terms of getting a job
Speaker 2: in fashion, like because I stopped acting, I needed to work,
Speaker 2: so I got a job in a store, and then
Speaker 2: I worked in PR for a second and hated that
Speaker 2: because I'm not a very good salesperson, And so I thought, well,
Speaker 2: maybe I could write like I loved writing. I was
Speaker 2: even like working on writing a movie at the time,
Speaker 2: and I'd written plays, and so I thought, well, maybe
Speaker 2: I can write for a magazine like I love fashion,
Speaker 2: And I started tempting a Conde Nast, and there was
Speaker 2: an opening in the fashion department. I thought, well, like,
Speaker 2: I don't even know that much about photo shoots, but
Speaker 2: maybe that's the way and I can get into features
Speaker 2: and start writing that way. And I immediately got a
Speaker 2: job with Phyllis Posnik, who was executive fashion editor at Vogue,
Speaker 2: and she had been there longer than Anna, like the
Speaker 2: editor was there the longest, longer than Grace, longer than anybody.
Speaker 2: And yeah, that was my first big fashion job. And
Speaker 2: it was in two thousand and six, the year the
Speaker 2: Devilwaar's product came out, and we all watched it together
Speaker 2: and it was extremely accurate. And it's funny, like being
Speaker 2: on a tour like this. It's like so meta in
Speaker 2: so many ways, and like the twenty year arc of it,
Speaker 2: it's funny.
Speaker 1: And you were living it. You wrote, this is where
Speaker 1: I will be for the next thirty years. That first day, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I don't even have that good of a memory,
Speaker 2: but there's certain like very seminal moments in your life.
Speaker 2: And I remember my first day walking into Vogue, like
Speaker 2: seeing like the letters on the wall. I consider myself
Speaker 2: to be an intuitive person, but I had this hit.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, I'll be here for the
Speaker 2: next fifty years, like I can feel it. And I
Speaker 2: was obviously very wrong because I was not the right
Speaker 2: fit for my boss, and I did it last longer
Speaker 2: than a year and a half. But I think what
Speaker 2: I felt was this deeper connection to fashion and its
Speaker 2: possibility and its potential purpose in our lives. And that's
Speaker 2: something that in starting my career at Vogue, I really
Speaker 2: learned to live and breathe and embody and appreciate because
Speaker 2: working at Fogue we were working with like the best
Speaker 2: of the best photographers and talent and teams in the world.
Speaker 2: And as they you know, alluded to in the first
Speaker 2: Devil Wars product film, the respect for the art of
Speaker 2: fashion that was my training. So I've always seen it
Speaker 2: as something that's not so much more more than just
Speaker 2: the clothes.
Speaker 1: I love that you said that, because when I started
Speaker 1: working with really brilliant photographers, I started seeing things differently,
Speaker 1: almost everything architecture, product, clothing. There's something about the way
Speaker 1: they view the world that is so artistic and incisive.
Speaker 2: I love what you're saying about that, Lens, because I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people remove themselves from the conversation
Speaker 2: of fashion and they choose to not turn on their
Speaker 2: lens themselves, even they remove themselves from the conversation because
Speaker 2: it might seem complicated or maybe their lives don't need it.
Speaker 2: But everybody has to get dressed in the morning, So
Speaker 2: like it or not, you are using a lens, so
Speaker 2: why not get intentional about it? And in terms of inspiration, yeah,
Speaker 2: like you talking about photographers who inspire you. I think
Speaker 2: the more you can train your brain to be intentional
Speaker 2: about every single thing, the more your antenna picks up
Speaker 2: to receive information and keep growing and evolving and living.
Speaker 2: A life of design is just doing, doing, doing and
Speaker 2: losing the plot.
Speaker 1: So that's how it started in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: That was twenty years ago, and now you're styling Andy
Speaker 1: Sacks herself the amazing Ann Hathaway. That story alone is
Speaker 1: sort of a plot in a movie. Did you ever
Speaker 1: imagine that you'd be on the other side making the
Speaker 1: star of that film look equally iconic as that character.
Speaker 2: My life is such a series and especially workwise of
Speaker 2: like serendipitous moments that might be too good to be true.
Speaker 2: When I was introduced to Annie seven or eight years
Speaker 2: ago was not lost on me. Like I loved the
Speaker 2: movie Stella War's product, and it affected us who were
Speaker 2: working that way because the layers of it, and one
Speaker 2: of the themes in that movie is this idea of
Speaker 2: not enoughness and not feeling like you're enough to do
Speaker 2: the job, to fulfill the role, to be the person
Speaker 2: to do that responsibility. And I think those themes resonated
Speaker 2: so deeply with me at that time, and it's one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I wanted to make a book
Speaker 2: later on. It's in the making of art and being
Speaker 2: creative and looking at ourselves and we heal like art
Speaker 2: is a healing mechanism. I know, I keep like going
Speaker 2: on tangents, but it has been so beautiful because in
Speaker 2: working with Annie, there's so many mirrors in both of
Speaker 2: our lives that have been healing and helpful together. And
Speaker 2: I do think the silly synchronicity of that even like
Speaker 2: just the nuances of that time. It was a time
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six when you're like sending facts
Speaker 2: is of shows like back and forth to Paris, of
Speaker 2: the reviews, and it was such a different time. So
Speaker 2: nobody's been able to see the new film yet, I
Speaker 2: haven't even seen it. Working behind the scenes on that Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not lost on me. It's pinched me. But I
Speaker 2: think living in that pinched me consciousness of the wildness
Speaker 2: of our reality and being grateful for that is a
Speaker 2: key to happiness and living and joy too. So it
Speaker 2: is crazy, cool, hilarious, and it's not lost on me.
Speaker 1: Ever, when you look back at it, does it feel
Speaker 1: like manifestation or destiny or years of quietly building towards
Speaker 1: something all of it?
Speaker 2: I think I must be a crazy manifestor because these
Speaker 2: kinds of like people and synchronicities that have happened over
Speaker 2: the course of my life just seems so magical, and
Speaker 2: it's not without thought or effort. Like I work very
Speaker 2: hard and I put all of myself into every single thing,
Speaker 2: Like my work ethic is intentional, the same as my
Speaker 2: relationship with my children and how I want them to
Speaker 2: grow up to be. But I believe manifestation that comes
Speaker 2: from living consciously in a place of intention right and
Speaker 2: taking the actions that align with that intention. And so
Speaker 2: whether that's prepping for a press chur or raising humans
Speaker 2: that you want to be considerate in this world, it
Speaker 2: all comes down to living in integrity and taking responsibility
Speaker 2: for your choices and how you treat other people, and
Speaker 2: the words you say to yourself, how you dress obviously,
Speaker 2: because you know every single thing kind of could be
Speaker 2: a ceremony when you get intentional about it. That's why
Speaker 2: it was so important to me to start a movement
Speaker 2: that gave women and back the means to embody the
Speaker 2: version of themselves that we sometimes lose in the doing
Speaker 2: and in the business of life.
Speaker 1: Well, when I looked back at your career thus far,
Speaker 1: one of the things I found so interesting was that
Speaker 1: so many of your clients are attached to these iconic
Speaker 1: fashion films or fashion moments. So Sarah, Jessica Parker, Carrie Washington,
Speaker 1: of course, Anne Hathaway now Selena Gomez. But you're the
Speaker 1: one that's helping them live up to that image that
Speaker 1: we all have in our minds. Is there added pressure
Speaker 1: when people already have this fantasy of who that person
Speaker 1: is supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But I would also say I would always put
Speaker 2: that pressure on myself too, because I have such high
Speaker 2: standards and the honor to work with people that you
Speaker 2: look up to, that I look up to, that so
Speaker 2: many people look up to. Got to keep the bar
Speaker 2: high in terms of the pressure of course since there
Speaker 2: when there's so many eyes, but I try to use it.
Speaker 2: It's like you want to alchemize it into the product,
Speaker 2: into the moment. So that's always a part of it.
Speaker 1: When did you realize that you weren't just dressing someone
Speaker 1: that you were like helping shape how culture sees them.
Speaker 2: I feel like probably in the past ten years. I
Speaker 2: think I always loved what I was doing, and I
Speaker 2: loved clothes and I loved lighting people up. I think
Speaker 2: like even at the beginning, working with someone like Carrie
Speaker 2: and watching the cultural response to that and the zeit
Speaker 2: guys shift around her and people really respond to like
Speaker 2: this iconic character she was putting out there and what
Speaker 2: that represented and honoring that moment like that definitely felt
Speaker 2: more than just about clothes. And that was at the beginning,
Speaker 2: like fifteen sixteen years ago. Definitely along the way, you know,
Speaker 2: with Sarah Jessica, there were some really big moments and
Speaker 2: I had looked up to her so much from when
Speaker 2: I first moved to New York City. She was like
Speaker 2: fashion icon and you know very much still is so
Speaker 2: like even meeting her for the first time and working
Speaker 2: with her, that metanis that that happened was never lost
Speaker 2: on me either. And there was a moment with her
Speaker 2: too where we did a commercial like before they did
Speaker 2: and just like that when you know, Sex and the
Speaker 2: City was still in the past and I had to
Speaker 2: help costume her as that character and it was like,
Speaker 2: this is crazy, it's too wild to be true. And certainly, yeah,
Speaker 2: the eyeballs on a Selena and Annie, there's a lot
Speaker 2: And so you could just take that in and let
Speaker 2: the pressure overwhelm you, that wouldn't serve the work. So
Speaker 2: it's okay to be conscious of it, but you have
Speaker 2: to focus on the invention, which ultimately to me is
Speaker 2: always rising up to the moment and helping somebody embody
Speaker 2: their best self and really, you know, help tell the
Speaker 2: story of who they want to be with the world.
Speaker 2: Which the reason why my lens of fashion it's for
Speaker 2: everybody is because I don't think like the movie stars
Speaker 2: are separate than us. I think we look up to
Speaker 2: movie stars because we see in them something we want
Speaker 2: for ourselves, something we want to embody. So that's how
Speaker 2: I got to this place of designing a method centered
Speaker 2: around how do you want to feel whether you're at
Speaker 2: a movie premiere in front of two hundred million people
Speaker 2: or just you and your closet in the mirror in
Speaker 2: the morning. How do you want to feel? What do
Speaker 2: you want your life to look like? What do you
Speaker 2: want it to feel like? How can your choices, starting
Speaker 2: with what you wear and the ritual that you give
Speaker 2: yourself to get started. How does that serve you and
Speaker 2: then help you better serve others.
Speaker 1: Have you ever gotten a Miranda priestly look of disapproval
Speaker 1: from a client?
Speaker 2: Of course, but you know what, I love criticism. That
Speaker 2: was one of the first lessons I learned at Vogue.
Speaker 2: You could like be a martyr and take everything personally
Speaker 2: and all like poor me, they didn't like this dress,
Speaker 2: and like, you can't control everything's received. This is one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I love mel Robbins. You got
Speaker 2: to use the criticism, and that's the alchymization part too.
Speaker 2: Use it, understand it, let it become a part of
Speaker 2: your process. There's been so many wonderful criticisms I've heard from,
Speaker 2: whether it's clients or teams, that have been so healthy,
Speaker 2: full and you know, productive and making it better, making
Speaker 2: the work better, making the product better, making the person
Speaker 2: feel better. So don't use criticism to feel bad about yourself,
Speaker 2: channel it and what doesn't work like brush it off
Speaker 2: or solters.
Speaker 1: I always try and take it critically, not personally or
Speaker 1: seriously and not personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can try, and I will sing sometimes sure,
Speaker 2: Like we're all human and I definitely live with an open,
Speaker 2: big heart and you can be aware of that. But
Speaker 2: like you also have to learn to like keep changing,
Speaker 2: keep it all and keep moving.
Speaker 1: So curious about your theory and the story you're telling
Speaker 1: when you dress people for premiers, because I feel like
Speaker 1: the Barbie movie premiere Saga changed things so dramatically. I
Speaker 1: see celebrities like dressing to the theme of the film.
Speaker 1: But it's like, in this elevated, kitchy way, what is that.
Speaker 2: Called well method dressing? That would be like dressing like
Speaker 2: the theme of the movie. That's certainly a thing. I
Speaker 2: was talking with Mickayla, who styles Merrill, and she was
Speaker 2: saying she calls it like for this film, she's calling
Speaker 2: it meta dressing because there's so many layers to like
Speaker 2: that then and now for both of us. She was
Speaker 2: an Internet folk, so I love a world of telling stories,
Speaker 2: so I definitely love to use elements of that but
Speaker 2: it's always collaborative. I don't mean to sound so dorky
Speaker 2: about it, but it's rooted in service. I want people
Speaker 2: I work with to shine and to feel great, and
Speaker 2: then you like weave all the elements of storytelling into it,
Speaker 2: but a method, a little bit of referential.
Speaker 1: Part of me feels like because you were an actor yourself,
Speaker 1: that you deeply understand the roles that they're stepping into.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: The reason I loved acting is I just think one
Speaker 2: of the fundamental best parts of being alive is the
Speaker 2: embodiment and like when you can fully feel, as Joseph
Speaker 2: Campbell says, the rapture of being alive, you know, so
Speaker 2: helping people to do that is just so much fun.
Speaker 2: And when things don't land or they don't work as
Speaker 2: we want to, I feel that too.
Speaker 1: But I was reading that even when you were acting,
Speaker 1: it was about clothing for you, Like do you remember
Speaker 1: the first time that you fell in love with a
Speaker 1: piece of clothing?
Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many visceral moments of like
Speaker 2: my mom and my grandma. My mom was a lawyer,
Speaker 2: Like she had this ceremony of getting dressed every day
Speaker 2: and like always very elegant and my grandmother too, just
Speaker 2: really intentional about style as a little girl, like it
Speaker 2: was important even to my mom to dress us a
Speaker 2: certain way and especially for like church on Sundays, and
Speaker 2: in terms of like fashion, definitely, when I moved to
Speaker 2: New York to go to NYU, I got into some
Speaker 2: vintage shopping. One of the first things I bought at
Speaker 2: the vintage shop down from NYU was this, because it's
Speaker 2: almost famous. I was like a couple of years out then,
Speaker 2: and I got like a Penny Lane jacket that I.
Speaker 1: Was obsessed with.
Speaker 2: And I also bought a lot of two too, is
Speaker 2: that like Geminola, And thought I was SJP And I
Speaker 2: was very good at thrifting, like you know, warm heels
Speaker 2: and step then two and I really made every weekend
Speaker 2: like let's tear up. I thought living in New York
Speaker 2: was extremely cool and I wanted to dress the part.
Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned your mom and your grandmother
Speaker 1: because I loved reading about them in your book. You
Speaker 1: said your mom was a lawyer and you grew up
Speaker 1: loving watching her get ready.
Speaker 2: I loved watching her get ready. I loved watching her
Speaker 2: get ready for work. I loved watching her get ready
Speaker 2: for dinner. I loved watching her come home and change
Speaker 2: and take a bath, and like the ceremony of that.
Speaker 2: I was witnessing this attention to detail and the ritual
Speaker 2: of both getting dressed and undressed. And it's something too
Speaker 2: like people forget when they get home. That's a whole
Speaker 2: other demarcation of your day, and that can be a ceremony.
Speaker 2: Even now, if I have a crazy day at work,
Speaker 2: I always change when I get home, take off the jewelry,
Speaker 2: take a moment, just that presence with yourself, even for
Speaker 2: like one minute, it honors well you have been embodying
Speaker 2: during the day. How do you need to feel when
Speaker 2: you get home? What's the shift? And the more you
Speaker 2: can be conscious of all these shifts and all these
Speaker 2: needs all the time, I think, the more of a
Speaker 2: sense of calm and gratitude you'll find even when things
Speaker 2: feel chaos like or overwhelming.
Speaker 1: I was reading that people were telling you at a
Speaker 1: young age that you needed to be in fashion, truly
Speaker 1: aerin if I showed you my childhood photos, nobody would
Speaker 1: be saying that about me. I was wearing like tied
Speaker 1: ie shirts and cowboy boots and mismatched absolutely everything. What
Speaker 1: do you think you were doing that made people recognize
Speaker 1: that in you from such a young age.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was my style per se,
Speaker 2: although I was always like experimenting. I know, I've always
Speaker 2: liked things just so, and I'm not OCD, but it's
Speaker 2: more like, I think I'm just very feminine, like even
Speaker 2: thinking in high school, I was always doing things slightly different.
Speaker 2: I wasn't afraid of doing things outside of box. But
Speaker 2: I think it was just like this. You could call
Speaker 2: it girly, but I think it's more of like this
Speaker 2: elevated way of looking at things and seeing things or
Speaker 2: wanting them to be in any case, even if they
Speaker 2: weren't so.
Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway wrote the forward of your book, and she
Speaker 1: wrote that you both share grandmother energy. I was laughing
Speaker 1: because I too feel I have grandmother energy, but I
Speaker 1: need to double check and make sure that it's the
Speaker 1: same grandmother energy as she's talking about.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so. I feel like I was
Speaker 2: born a thousand year adults. And what's so funny about
Speaker 2: that is my oldest daughter, Matilda is ten, she almost eleven.
Speaker 2: When I looked at her when she was born, she
Speaker 2: had that too. It was like I saw it from
Speaker 2: the second and a friend of mine had told me,
Speaker 2: when you have your baby, like to take a moment
Speaker 2: just to like look at them in the eyes, because
Speaker 2: you see their essence, you see their soul. And I
Speaker 2: recognize that in her, and it's just so out of
Speaker 2: this world. Yeah, the grandmother energy, it's many things at once.
Speaker 2: I think like this sense of time, you know, certainly,
Speaker 2: and not wanting to lose time or waste time. I
Speaker 2: think this sense of value for like the ground durer
Speaker 2: of things. There's so many layers to it. We can
Speaker 2: unpack this more. But that was very wise of her.
Speaker 2: We're very Sopotico.
Speaker 1: Do you think the grandmother energy informs the way you style?
Speaker 2: I think the mother energy certainly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's how I am with clients, even to the point
Speaker 2: where like I get protective in public, you know, just
Speaker 2: like energy in space. I always have been like that
Speaker 2: with clients. I have Mom energy with all my clients
Speaker 2: I do. I'm like very protective and the whole ceremonial
Speaker 2: when they leave, and it's like everybody's looking major. I've
Speaker 2: been brought to tears before, very mom.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to actually dig into the looking major part,
Speaker 1: because before we go deep into your book, it seems
Speaker 1: like you've had this long term love affair with clothes.
Speaker 1: And if fashion is a kind of romance for you,
Speaker 1: what does it feel like when you're searching and searching
Speaker 1: for the perfect look and then you finally find the one,
Speaker 1: like you know the woman, you know the event, you
Speaker 1: know the energy you want to create, and then everything clicks.
Speaker 2: Gosh, we had one of those moments today which I
Speaker 2: can't tell you about yet. The one thing I'm so
Speaker 2: excited about the book is this idea of learning to
Speaker 2: trust your intuition and in those moments, like with major looks,
Speaker 2: you know it clicks because it's a visceral thing. You
Speaker 2: can feel it. And the more you train your body
Speaker 2: to feel something because we all just jump jump jump
Speaker 2: to the next thing, but like you know when something's
Speaker 2: like sick, and in terms of you know something, especially
Speaker 2: in these moments with many eyeballs on it that could
Speaker 2: potentially be viral. Knowing the moment like what you feel
Speaker 2: and being connected to the intention, then like it's just
Speaker 2: ripple effects from there, you kind of know when something's
Speaker 2: really going to allow you just do do.
Speaker 1: You ever have to be like, Okay, this is good enough, Like,
Speaker 1: we can't get that feeling for every single look.
Speaker 2: I think you know when they're like blonkers, and you
Speaker 2: know when something serves the purpose. Yeah, I think you
Speaker 2: always want to do better and keep raising the bar.
Speaker 2: But look, if somebody's going to like a chill interview,
Speaker 2: maybe it doesn't need to be like ground bridging. It
Speaker 2: could just be that they feel.
Speaker 1: So how often do you get that feeling? As a stylist,
Speaker 1: we're talking romance, I'm like, is it as rare as
Speaker 1: real love? Like? How often does that happen? Again?
Speaker 2: This fashion part, that element of red carpet moments. I
Speaker 2: think the moment a handful of years ago I really
Speaker 2: started zoning in on this intentionality is when I just
Speaker 2: started feeling this electric current in the work and it
Speaker 2: was like people were getting magical and the big audiences
Speaker 2: were feeling this too. Became like the shared exchange, which
Speaker 2: was incredibly exciting, very grateful for that.
Speaker 1: Intentionality is definitely one of the words I would use
Speaker 1: to describe the book. I also feel like a big
Speaker 1: part of it is knowing how you feel in clothing.
Speaker 1: I guess I can share for myself. I had a
Speaker 1: moment of knowing in my style. When I really actually
Speaker 1: knew myself better, I had more self awareness and then
Speaker 1: something changed. For people who stru with their emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: or don't feel like they've hit sort of like that evolution,
Speaker 1: that moment, yet, how do you think they can begin
Speaker 1: to access it through fashion?
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the mistakes people make with
Speaker 2: fashion is they look at what they're being told to like,
Speaker 2: or what's trendy, or what works on a certain body type,
Speaker 2: or like what the working woman should wear. Like these prescriptions,
Speaker 2: which while it's helpful to look at what might inspire you,
Speaker 2: a random prescription for you, doesn't usually work because it's
Speaker 2: not centered on how you want to feel. Number one,
Speaker 2: getting to the point where you feel great and like
Speaker 2: you can trust yourself and you know that you know
Speaker 2: how to use the tools. That starts with getting clear
Speaker 2: on how you feel now, which means getting vulnerable with yourself.
Speaker 2: Because most people they think they can like grab a
Speaker 2: power jacket and just feel instantly awesome without actually thinking
Speaker 2: about first, how am I feeling now?
Speaker 1: Is that tired? Overwhelmed?
Speaker 2: You know, anxious? What does that person need? What kind
Speaker 2: of tools does she need at her disposal? Maybe she
Speaker 2: needs like a softer thing in the mix. How do
Speaker 2: I want to feel? Three words? This is the game.
Speaker 2: Three words. How are you feeling? Three words? How do
Speaker 2: you want to feel? And so if that you know, tired, anxious,
Speaker 2: overwhelmed person has a day with you know, a couple meetings,
Speaker 2: maybe picking up kids, dinner, et cetera. Maybe she needs
Speaker 2: something energizing. Maybe she wants to be inspiring. Maybe she
Speaker 2: wants to be supported, right and or tired. We need
Speaker 2: some support. What pieces do that for? To me? Support
Speaker 2: looks like you know, things that since your waist, shoes
Speaker 2: that feel grounded. To me, that means a chunky shoe empowering.
Speaker 2: That is why I would grab a blazer, you know,
Speaker 2: with great shoulders. It makes me feel strong. It's why
Speaker 2: if I need to feel held, I might add like
Speaker 2: a soft sweater over my shoulders just to make me
Speaker 2: feel you know, supportive. It's interesting in the book and
Speaker 2: then in learning how to live this more and more
Speaker 2: you'll understand that by first connecting with how you want
Speaker 2: to feel, it gets you real on yourself and it
Speaker 2: brings you back to the intention of just like I
Speaker 2: I'm on Persmer told me when I interviewed her for
Speaker 2: the book, who is that woman that I want to be?
Speaker 2: Getting back to that every single day, no matter what
Speaker 2: life is throwing at you, because you don't get to
Speaker 2: decide how you wake up feeling. You don't get to
Speaker 2: decide what curveballs get thrown your way, But you can
Speaker 2: keep reconnecting with that intention, and that's what's going to
Speaker 2: keep you in integrity with yourself and that woman that
Speaker 2: you want to be.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so glad you brought this up because that
Speaker 1: moment threw me for a curveball in your book. I
Speaker 1: really try to live my life with intention. I have
Speaker 1: never thought who do I want to be in this room?
Speaker 1: I oftentimes will dress for the setting or the event,
Speaker 1: and instead you are asking us to think, who do
Speaker 1: I want to be in this room? What do you
Speaker 1: think that we lose when we dress for the setting
Speaker 1: rather than for ourselves.
Speaker 2: We lose ourselves. You dress for the setting that you're
Speaker 2: not connected with what that person inside of you needs.
Speaker 2: You spend your life just playing a part and not
Speaker 2: in body it, You're always going to be disconnected from yourself.
Speaker 2: It's like trying to, you know, charge your phone without
Speaker 2: plugging it in the wall.
Speaker 1: Thing.
Speaker 2: It's why we're here. It's like we're all connected, but
Speaker 2: first connecting to yourself is essential before you can connect
Speaker 2: authentically with other people. And I believe we're here to
Speaker 2: connect with other people, but that only could happen when
Speaker 2: we get real with ourselves. That's the clarity part. So
Speaker 2: the create method in the book, the first word is clarity.
Speaker 2: It's getting real with yourself. The second word, the R
Speaker 2: is a ritual. What steps do you need to take
Speaker 2: to do that today, to get grounded, to reboot, recalibrate,
Speaker 2: and then editing the e the fun fashion part that's
Speaker 2: transforming your closet into a portal of possibility, meaning every
Speaker 2: single piece in it. You get real and you're like,
Speaker 2: this jacket makes me feel empowered, confident and supported, and
Speaker 2: anything that doesn't make you feel great it goes, so
Speaker 2: there's no nonsense in there. Then we get into alignment
Speaker 2: truth telling a story of who you are to the
Speaker 2: world with what you wear, an expansion which is like
Speaker 2: a lot of people along the way to finding what
Speaker 2: worse to than with fashion. They could stay in the
Speaker 2: same uniform for thirty years. And I'm not saying like,
Speaker 2: don't know what works for you. We're here to grow,
Speaker 2: so you have to keep asking new questions. And in
Speaker 2: the process of picking, say your three words you want
Speaker 2: to feel today, getting creative about new possibilities and not
Speaker 2: just words that serve other people, But how can you
Speaker 2: choose something that surprises you? Try it on for size.
Speaker 2: Could say that your three words for the day were,
Speaker 2: you know, compassionate, explosive, dynamic, And maybe that word doesn't
Speaker 2: work for you try it, I'm like, what's the worst
Speaker 2: that can happen? You tried something new and it didn't work. Great,
Speaker 2: that's information you can use that.
Speaker 1: I really like the method because I was going through
Speaker 1: my closet thinking about it after I read the book.
Speaker 1: And I'm from Chicago originally, and so I've lived in
Speaker 1: LA for thirteen years and my taste has evolved a lot,
Speaker 1: mostly because you have so many stylish people around me.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to study it and I would look
Speaker 1: at magazine. There are moments where I slip back into
Speaker 1: my Chicago ways and I realized I had to edit
Speaker 1: it out of my closet. I just had to get
Speaker 1: rid of it.
Speaker 2: That's not the story you do, that's not the story
Speaker 2: you want to tell to the world. Energetically, it's like
Speaker 2: creating a block. Like in your possibility, we got to
Speaker 2: be cleaning out all the time. I think you need
Speaker 2: to clean out your closet like four times a year
Speaker 2: and then look at it every month.
Speaker 1: Totally agree. The story changes, just like our story.
Speaker 2: The story changes, And don't feel bad about holding on
Speaker 2: to like things from people you love. That's okay, But
Speaker 2: like just holding onto something because you're hoping to fit
Speaker 2: in it one day is not necessarily helpful.
Speaker 1: And my Midwest like cutouts in everything is also something
Speaker 1: I have edited out, so that's gone. So I started
Speaker 1: my career as a red carpet reporter and everybody would
Speaker 1: ask what are you wearing? And I don't know if
Speaker 1: you can tell it. I'm pretty woo woo, and so
Speaker 1: I hate it. I would never ask the what are
Speaker 1: you wearing? Question? However, once I started understanding fashion, I
Speaker 1: got the point like it was really important for people
Speaker 1: to share the designers' names. I'm curious how you feel
Speaker 1: about that question. Is it harmless social sinking or is
Speaker 1: it a sin?
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a sin. Of things like that.
Speaker 2: Don't take offense to it. But what I would find
Speaker 2: to be more interesting would be why are you wearing?
Speaker 2: Because especially like you look at some of the choices
Speaker 2: this Red Carpet season which were so interesting, Like I
Speaker 2: think Tianna Taylor was just like wearing soul on steroids.
Speaker 2: It was so exciting and fun, and those choices you
Speaker 2: could tell that all of them were making your feel
Speaker 2: like her best, badass self, and I just loved that.
Speaker 2: It was so fun to see. This is why I
Speaker 2: always love talking with other stylists and like sharing the
Speaker 2: joy and what other people are putting out there in
Speaker 2: the work, because there's so much space for different kinds
Speaker 2: of work, because there's so many different kinds of people
Speaker 2: and so many different ways that we can uncovering to
Speaker 2: feel great. And you look at like the Jesse Buckley
Speaker 2: on this Awards season looking just so gorgeous and strong,
Speaker 2: you know, and like that was so beautiful to witness
Speaker 2: and it was so joyful. These aren't my work. I
Speaker 2: just loved watching these stories be shared in a big
Speaker 2: way that felt like they were really serving the women
Speaker 2: and what they wanted to put out there to support
Speaker 2: their work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesse Buckley looked like herself. Yeah, I just love.
Speaker 2: That, and it's something that I've really loved in working
Speaker 2: with Selena and like just really watching that girl who
Speaker 2: shares her vulnerable heart with the world just shine. Like
Speaker 2: that's been so rewarding, especially when you got the opportunity
Speaker 2: to work with people who are using their platform in
Speaker 2: a way that really is meant to serve other people
Speaker 2: and to bring you know, action, to use their power
Speaker 2: to help people. It's so inspiring.
Speaker 1: Well, you've said that you really consider yourself more of
Speaker 1: a fashion therapist than a stylist.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm blading heart and working with all these
Speaker 2: amazing houses and designers. I love that, but that's like
Speaker 2: a part of the sauce. It's a part of telling
Speaker 2: the story because ultimately I want these women to feel right,
Speaker 2: I feel like their best self.
Speaker 1: I think, just like regular therapy, everyone might need it,
Speaker 1: but not everybody goes. How do you think your book
Speaker 1: introduces therapy to people at their own pace?
Speaker 2: I think like the idea is getting intentional about every
Speaker 2: aspect of your life brings you into alignment. Like therapy
Speaker 2: is like self help, right, But I want to give
Speaker 2: people the tools to help themselves with every single thing
Speaker 2: that they are interacting with, even down to how they
Speaker 2: use their phone. I think when you learn to use
Speaker 2: getting dressed and ritual and movement and just even like
Speaker 2: these exercises and getting clear on yourself, that is a therapy.
Speaker 2: I think the intentionality gives you a connection with yourself
Speaker 2: that is a form of self care love.
Speaker 1: That actually kind of reminds me of how you call
Speaker 1: closets these portals of possibility. I love that word possibility.
Speaker 1: I've been hanging on that word actually all week. And
Speaker 1: you tie it back to how but at one point
Speaker 1: we all enjoyed dressing up or playing make believe, and
Speaker 1: our closets weren't such a scary place. And then as
Speaker 1: we grow, our closets feel intimidating or stressful or maybe
Speaker 1: even stagnant. I felt all of those every woman does.
Speaker 1: So how do we find that magic as adults? The
Speaker 1: magic comes when you feel the connection with the closets.
Speaker 1: Most people's closets it's like full of stuff.
Speaker 2: It's full of all these people they used to be,
Speaker 2: and then you feel sad for that person you're not anymore.
Speaker 2: Maybe that makes you feel disconnected from who you want
Speaker 2: to be, and so then of course it's fucking confusing,
Speaker 2: and you don't know what the f to wear the
Speaker 2: closet as a portal. By getting clear and editing out
Speaker 2: and making room for the person that you are becoming,
Speaker 2: it just gives you a sense of ease and like
Speaker 2: just freedom to step into that person and talk about
Speaker 2: a lens. That's how you can see clearly and learn
Speaker 2: to embody the person you want to be. Like the magic,
Speaker 2: that's that connection. We feel magical when we feel connected
Speaker 2: to our curpas and our posdis stability. We feel not
Speaker 2: so magical when we can't see that. So I think
Speaker 2: the magic comes within that connection and learning how to
Speaker 2: live in integrity, even when life feels heavy or hard
Speaker 2: or confusing, or we feel fat or you know, tired,
Speaker 2: or even just not our best self, like most of
Speaker 2: us don't wake up feeling that. My whole mission is
Speaker 2: to give people the tools to find that connection, because
Speaker 2: it's in that intersection of style and spirituality or style
Speaker 2: and wellness. It's where this book lives, and it's why
Speaker 2: I wanted to make a book. I hadn't seen it
Speaker 2: addressed in a real way ever, Like there's lots of
Speaker 2: talk over the years about fashion and beauty and empowering
Speaker 2: and all these different wonderful ways that fashion can affect us.
Speaker 2: But I hadn't seen it as like this manifestation tool before,
Speaker 2: and that to me thought like game changing, shape shifting, literally,
Speaker 2: And it was that intersection of style and well style
Speaker 2: and self care that really moved me to write a book.
Speaker 1: You're actually giving me such great imagery because to think
Speaker 1: of style as manifestation and that question DVF gave you,
Speaker 1: who do I want to be in this room? Then
Speaker 1: your closet really is a portal of possibility. That's so
Speaker 1: interesting erin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not a burden, it's a threshold. It's potential.
Speaker 1: So is it okay that I have three sizes of
Speaker 1: genes in my closet? Or do I need to get
Speaker 1: rid of them?
Speaker 2: If you're actually wearing them. It depends on how you're
Speaker 2: wearing them and how they make you feel like. It's
Speaker 2: not the actual sizes that matter. The thing is with women,
Speaker 2: our bodies change all month and done our whole lives.
Speaker 2: So having a means of compassion for that too. You
Speaker 2: might need that in the course of the month. That's
Speaker 2: not for me to do. Kind of assess that for yourself,
Speaker 2: what you need, how that will help you And I
Speaker 2: know on the weekend, I like toward genes that are
Speaker 2: a little less structured, right because I need some ease.
Speaker 2: So it just depends on how they're serving it.
Speaker 1: When you write that you should be breaking one fashion
Speaker 1: pattern every week, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Have you broken one this week?
Speaker 2: I try to do that with the words that I choose.
Speaker 2: The pattern breaking comes in being brave enough to surprise yourself.
Speaker 2: And I don't believe in taking risks just to take
Speaker 2: risks and like fall in your face. I don't think
Speaker 2: that's the point, and that doesn't make us feel great.
Speaker 2: But there's so much potential in us that we're afraid
Speaker 2: to unpack because we feel comfortable. So by choosing a
Speaker 2: word that surprises you and seeing how it feels, I
Speaker 2: think that's how you grow, and that's how you keep
Speaker 2: changing and evolving. So in terms of patterns, yeah, just
Speaker 2: keep trying on new words for size.
Speaker 1: So you're a fashion therapist. I've heard you say an
Speaker 1: Hathoway has a PhD in fashion? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Does that mean you feel like she could be a
Speaker 1: stylist herself?
Speaker 2: I think she could literally be anything. She's a very
Speaker 2: smart lady. Yeah, I think if you're in three thousand
Speaker 2: fittings like some of it sticks. She's been in the
Speaker 2: public eye for a long time.
Speaker 1: Does it make your life harder easier that she's so smart.
Speaker 2: I think it's wonderful. It's information right, and that's like
Speaker 2: for collaboration, like turn up the volume. That's why it's fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I have a question for you about management,
Speaker 1: because I thought I was busy, but oh my god,
Speaker 1: you work at the intersection of creativity and logistics imail.
Speaker 2: My assistants are, and they're packing a carne right now.
Speaker 2: For I think with managing and micromanaging, you have to
Speaker 2: do both. I definitely have a lot of awareness of
Speaker 2: making sure all the dots are connected and just like
Speaker 2: double checking things because there's a lot of balls in
Speaker 2: the air and a lot of things that rely on me.
Speaker 2: I have found with so much going on that my
Speaker 2: rituals and even this method are more important than ever.
Speaker 2: And even like last week when I was in China
Speaker 2: and jet lagged and waking up at three am, I
Speaker 2: was making time to you know, like I have like
Speaker 2: this alkalizing pattern and I would work out every single
Speaker 2: day because it just reconnecting to my body was important
Speaker 2: before I put on any clothes. Not because I think
Speaker 2: I'm like the fittest, you know mom in the world
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's because choosing to honor myself in these
Speaker 2: ways and being consistent about them are just as important
Speaker 2: as me not when I'm tired making a lazy choice
Speaker 2: like stepping back into how am I going to walk
Speaker 2: as that person? When I wake up feeling this way?
Speaker 2: So I have found it's important. I think with teams
Speaker 2: you have to, you know, lead the way, just like
Speaker 2: your kids. Your people learn by how you are and
Speaker 2: how you treat them, and I try to lead in
Speaker 2: a way that is compassionate and clear. So I'm very
Speaker 2: direct about what is needed and wanted to do the work.
Speaker 2: But I also try to really embody and lead from
Speaker 2: a place of generosity, kind of like a mom to
Speaker 2: like a mom to everybody.
Speaker 1: So I was reading that Anne has five films that
Speaker 1: are out this year, and she's not your only client. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that is like so many major projects and appearances.
Speaker 1: When your calendar gets that big, can you plan far
Speaker 1: ahead or you pivoting in real time?
Speaker 2: Always you have to be able to do both at
Speaker 2: the same time and also in the business of dressing,
Speaker 2: how you want to feel. You can plan something really
Speaker 2: well and things just change, so you have to be flexible.
Speaker 2: I think the important thing of it is, I talk
Speaker 2: about Anne about this a lot, is the three D
Speaker 2: chests of it, just seeing like the possibilities and how
Speaker 2: you can shift and pivot, just so you know you
Speaker 2: can always be on your feet and ready because a
Speaker 2: lot of curveballs can get thrown your way. And if
Speaker 2: the point is making somebody feel great and getting it
Speaker 2: all done, like you have to problem solve in real
Speaker 2: time like we do as parents. What story were you
Speaker 2: going for your book tour? I mean, honestly, I want
Speaker 2: to be able to lead from a place of light
Speaker 2: and calm and clarity. And my mission is to make
Speaker 2: all of this feel as digestible and accessible and like
Speaker 2: this idea that fashion is not this luxury that we
Speaker 2: just see on the red carpet or on the runways.
Speaker 2: It's something that can be pivotable and magical in redefining
Speaker 2: our potential and how we see ourselves. It's so easy
Speaker 2: when you start doing this, to start implementing this into
Speaker 2: your life. The book is beautiful, there's so much to
Speaker 2: it in so many layers, we can unpack our whole lives.
Speaker 2: But just by getting clear on these essential things to
Speaker 2: start and live your day, it also gives you room
Speaker 2: to reflect every day. How did I walk in intention today?
Speaker 2: Did I honor that person I want to be? What
Speaker 2: went wrong? What can I do to better this? And
Speaker 2: then it just keeps you in check with yourself, which
Speaker 2: is so exciting. That's the magic of it. And with
Speaker 2: the tour, it's not just about the tour. This is
Speaker 2: like the beginning of the new era of how women
Speaker 2: see themselves. And I talk always about women. I want
Speaker 2: this for the men to but I work mostly with women,
Speaker 2: so that's where I consider my little bit of an expert.
Speaker 1: I loved in the book when you noted that at
Speaker 1: Vogue you learned there was always a solution.
Speaker 2: Everything is figure outable, right. Marie Foleo, who I interview
Speaker 2: in the book, talks about that a lot. This is
Speaker 2: one thing as leader, I always tell my assistants site
Speaker 2: and it's not like oh that was impossible or oh
Speaker 2: that it's like, oh is this all? That's a lot
Speaker 2: of times where the magic happens in red carpet moments.
Speaker 2: Is it's not like panic game of something doesn't happen,
Speaker 2: it's like, how do we solve this? In the most
Speaker 2: of the time it's better.
Speaker 1: So I normally end with some rapid fire lightning questions.
Speaker 1: But since I have the style maker of the year
Speaker 1: here with me today, I thought we would play a
Speaker 1: little game of trashy or trendy?
Speaker 2: Oh fun love it?
Speaker 1: Okay? Little black dress trashy or trendy.
Speaker 2: Oh trendy?
Speaker 1: Always classic varsity shirts, trashy, skinny jeans, trashy pyrit aesthetic,
Speaker 1: trendy broaches, love trendy sneakers overheels, not for me, okay.
Speaker 1: Valentino pumps, are they back? Trashy or trendy? So bad?
Speaker 2: So trendy? The new cut is excellent. You must try them?
Speaker 1: Ceruly in blue trashy or trendy, very trendy? Okay? Erin
Speaker 1: what is a book that changed your life? Something you
Speaker 1: think everybody should read?
Speaker 2: The Creative Act Rick Ruben's book.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's one thing every woman should try once.
Speaker 2: I heels, obviously, and.
Speaker 1: Then I always pick a card from the question Everything
Speaker 1: card game, and I got to do plants thrive or die?
Speaker 2: In your care they die? I'm very good with children.
Speaker 2: Off the plants not.
Speaker 1: So much erin Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You're a light. Thank you. This is such a joy.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week