Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody nailed it? Joined as always my our bar.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barrs. William Shakespeare was
Speaker 1: an English playwright, poet, and actor. Yeah, I'm not calling
Speaker 1: him boom roasted, all right, fine, just like his official biography.
Speaker 2: Disagree on Google? Yeah that Wikipedia real good source. Anyways,
Speaker 2: this is not the point.
Speaker 1: It's not the big like uh Britannica whatever. It is
Speaker 1: the bit like the big book, the one that has.
Speaker 2: All the big book with all the facts. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: let me let me finish mine.
Speaker 1: Now Shakespeare ex Williams, Evan Lazarre, William Shakespeare. I was
Speaker 1: and grinding tape and William Shakespeare.
Speaker 2: Can you just let me finish the point? Uh no, no,
Speaker 2: I got I got a lot of flak for for
Speaker 2: that marine. Oh. You know, Evan doesn't know Shakespeare. Stick
Speaker 2: to football, Evan, you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Shakespeare wrote sonnets. He was amazing as a poet. I
Speaker 2: don't know, like make bad eyes, Hamlet. You know, those
Speaker 2: are the things that I remember from obviously Julius Caesar,
Speaker 2: which was the point we were going after there that
Speaker 2: Alex just you. You just didn't let me get it out. No, no,
Speaker 2: no surprise there, Alex are you were a little questionable
Speaker 2: for today's show though you were on the injury report. Listen,
Speaker 2: is questionable with an illness. How you doing, buddy, how
Speaker 2: you feeling.
Speaker 1: I'm doing better. You're definitely gonna have more windows to
Speaker 1: talk today. This is the first show I've done since
Speaker 1: of any kind, since Sunday, So we'll see how my
Speaker 1: voice holds up. Yeah, short today.
Speaker 2: I appreciate I appreciate you toughing it out for us.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's no Catch twenty two without without
Speaker 2: either of us, right like then, there's just no show,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot to talk about. So we're gonna
Speaker 2: we're gonna push through, and Alex is gonna push through
Speaker 2: for you guys. And I am upset for you, though,
Speaker 2: Bart because it's we're gonna preview the Senior Bowl here
Speaker 2: in a few minutes and uh and and this is
Speaker 2: like your this is your super Bowl. You know, this
Speaker 2: is one of your the biggest weeks out of the
Speaker 2: year for you. So I'm a little bit Uh, I'm
Speaker 2: worried that you know, you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 2: get all your takes about Michael Pratt and whoever you
Speaker 2: know out in this one.
Speaker 1: And you know that's not the quarterback I'm going to
Speaker 1: have all the takes about. It's not Michael Pennix either.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right, good teas, good teas. But before
Speaker 2: we get to it, and the phone lines are like
Speaker 2: just lighting up. I don't know they're working on them
Speaker 2: or whatever, but both my goodness. Okay. So so we'll
Speaker 2: get to the calls in a few minutes here, but
Speaker 2: I want to start with the latest on the Patriots
Speaker 2: coaching search, and Alex, I'm going to ask you, as
Speaker 2: best as you possibly can to to walk me off
Speaker 2: a little bit of a lunch here with the Patriots
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator search. We're texting about this a little bit
Speaker 2: last night, but basically where we're at right now, the
Speaker 2: Patriots have only interviewed two known candidates who are free
Speaker 2: agents or not I shouldn't say free agents, but are
Speaker 2: just available at the moment because Dan Pitcher in Cincinnati
Speaker 2: he took the job as their offensive coordinator as everybody expected.
Speaker 2: And Shane Waldron, who the Patriots did show some interest
Speaker 2: in he's off the board. He's going to Chicago to
Speaker 2: coordinate the Bears offense. So that leaves the Patriots with
Speaker 2: the two Rams guys that we know. And I want
Speaker 2: to stress that because just because it hasn't been reported
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they haven't interviewed other people.
Speaker 1: But I think that Waldron was reported right until after
Speaker 1: he took the job in Chicago.
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, So he takes the job in Chicago and
Speaker 2: then it comes out after the fact that he did
Speaker 2: have a first round interview with the Patriots. So right
Speaker 2: now we have Zach Robinson, we have Nick Kyley, and
Speaker 2: I do think that it's worth saying, and I know
Speaker 2: that some fans are gonna are not gonna love this,
Speaker 2: but it's worth saying that Josh McDaniels, I believe is
Speaker 2: lurking in the background, waiting, waiting to see what happens
Speaker 2: with Bill Belichick. If Bill Belichick gets a job, I
Speaker 2: would expect McDaniels to follow him to his destination, probably Atlanta.
Speaker 2: If Bill Belichick doesn't get a job, then I would
Speaker 2: expect him to go as I think Jeff Howard, the
Speaker 2: athletic I believe it was Jeff Howe reported kind of
Speaker 2: go to the top of the list a little bit
Speaker 2: here for girod Mayo. In terms of Patriots offensive coordinator.
Speaker 2: Here's my walking off the ledge moment. Here's my concern
Speaker 2: right now. I look across the league at some of
Speaker 2: these up and coming hot coordinator candidates, guys like Zach Robinson,
Speaker 2: guys that are interviewing for these jobs that are popular
Speaker 2: right now around the league, and I'm trying to figure
Speaker 2: out why would they take the Patriots job. And I
Speaker 2: look at a few factors. One, the Patriots don't have
Speaker 2: a quarterback as of right now, so what you're selling
Speaker 2: them on is probably taking a quarterback at the top
Speaker 2: of the first round. And you get to work with
Speaker 2: one of these, you know, quarterback prospects, and if you
Speaker 2: like the guy that you're in lockstep with the Patriots,
Speaker 2: that you might like Jadon Daniels, you might like Drake
Speaker 2: may and you can maybe build around that. I guess
Speaker 2: that might be appealing, But overall, it's a challenge. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a big challenge for whoever takes this
Speaker 2: job to put the pieces together to develop the quarterback,
Speaker 2: to maybe change the system, which I think that they
Speaker 2: would at least like to consider doing. You know, obviously
Speaker 2: they've interviewed a lot of people from the Sean McVay
Speaker 2: West Coast System tree, the Shanahan McVay tree, and I
Speaker 2: think they would like to change the systems. So that's
Speaker 2: a lot of change, it's a lot of unknowns, and
Speaker 2: I just look at their options, you know, these other coordinators.
Speaker 2: And I would also mention that Brian Callahan in Tennessee
Speaker 2: now but in Cincinnati before as their coordinator, is a
Speaker 2: great example of this. Brian Callahan never called plays for
Speaker 2: the Bengals, never called plays. Zach Taylor was the play caller.
Speaker 2: So this allure of calling plays, I don't necessarily know
Speaker 2: if that is that big of a thing, because these
Speaker 2: guys are getting head coaching jobs elsewhere without calling plays
Speaker 2: in the first place. So what is it that is
Speaker 2: attractive about New England other than it's a challenge. It's
Speaker 2: you get to run your own ship, and if it
Speaker 2: works out for you, if you hit a home run
Speaker 2: and you developed a quarterback and do this, that and
Speaker 2: the other thing, then you're Bobby Slowock, right like, then
Speaker 2: you're the next big coordinator candidate here.
Speaker 1: Look, I think you just hit on a lot of it.
Speaker 1: I think you're just under selling some of how big
Speaker 1: these points are. I think if somebody really is enamored
Speaker 1: with Drake may or Jayden Daniels, then obviously yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: on down. And you know, you look at some of
Speaker 1: the other spots where there's open jobs. Are the quarterback
Speaker 1: situations as attractive as hypothetically having one of these guys
Speaker 1: that's going to be a top three pick. I think
Speaker 1: to kind of go from another angle at one of
Speaker 1: your points, you are going to get to call your
Speaker 1: place you're working for a defensive coach. There is no
Speaker 1: you know, trying to like like with with with Brian Kallen,
Speaker 1: like is it him? Is it Zach Taylor? I think
Speaker 1: the most obvious example of this phenomenous Eric p enemy
Speaker 1: behind Andy Reid for all those years, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: well is it how much is Erk Penemy really doing?
Speaker 1: How good of a coach is now? I thought, excuse me,
Speaker 1: relatively speaking, he did a good job in Washington last year,
Speaker 1: and I think he was responsible for a lot of
Speaker 1: the chief success you see what's happening now. But it's
Speaker 1: a question people are going to ask no disrespect to
Speaker 1: Jarrod Mayo, but nobody's gonna ask, well, is it really
Speaker 1: Gerd Mayo's offense? Right, you are going to have pretty
Speaker 1: much full autonomy. You should have full autonomy if you're
Speaker 1: side of the balls and offense coordinator here. And I
Speaker 1: think to combine that with another one of your points
Speaker 1: that helps accelerate to the next job, because I think if,
Speaker 1: like you said, if the offense explodes here, nobody else
Speaker 1: is getting the credit. From a coaching point of view,
Speaker 1: nobody And maybe like roster building, people get credit, mail
Speaker 1: gets credit as a motivator. But if it's like all
Speaker 1: Crisp Clean schematically it's working, the quarterback's developed, you know
Speaker 1: that's falling on one person, and that's obviously if you
Speaker 1: want to be a head coach in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: I would say the Patriots job is one of the
Speaker 1: most attractive in terms of upside. Now the floor is
Speaker 1: a little lower, but if you can get this thing
Speaker 1: to work, you're in great shape. So I do think
Speaker 1: there are certainly attractive elements toon. Is it the most
Speaker 1: attractive job, No, but it's hardly the least attractive job
Speaker 1: either to me, especially now that you have I thought
Speaker 1: the Bengals and actually Chicago or two of the more
Speaker 1: attractive jobs. Chicago obviously they'll have we expect they'll have
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams, so we'll but yeah, No, you keep texting
Speaker 1: me like, so it's gonna be Josh McDaniels, right, which one?
Speaker 1: Every time you text that to me, Because I've obviously
Speaker 1: kind of been in and out keeping track of the
Speaker 1: news last couple days, I'm like, all right, who hired
Speaker 1: Zach Robinson? Who hired Nick Kaylee? Who hired Jerra Johnson?
Speaker 1: And also when you text me that, I'm thinking, so,
Speaker 1: what does that mean for Bill? Because McDaniel's probably gonna
Speaker 1: follow Bill if and when Bill goes so, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I don't see it in that picture yet. Is
Speaker 1: there a path dude ending up being Josh McDaniels. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: but it hardly feels like a guarantee right now. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you mentioned Kaylee and Robinson. I wouldn't sleep on the
Speaker 1: Texans guys either, And likely Slow was gonna get a
Speaker 1: head coaching job. I think he actually just uh is
Speaker 1: about to interview with the Falcons. I think I saw
Speaker 1: a report on that. But you figure between Ben McDaniels
Speaker 1: and Jara Johnson, one of those guys is gonna get
Speaker 1: the bump up to oc uh. I think Jor Johnsons
Speaker 1: already interviewed with a couple of other teams. That's a
Speaker 1: guy I would like to see the Patriots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think when it comes to Zach Robinson,
Speaker 2: you really if I'm Zach Robinson, I'm not sure I'm
Speaker 2: taking the New England job. It just I think he's
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of opportunities here in the next
Speaker 2: couple of years. He could probably stay with the Rams
Speaker 2: and potentially get himself a head coaching job in a
Speaker 2: year or two, just based off of being with McVeigh
Speaker 2: and his reputation around the league. I just I look
Speaker 2: at those types of guys like the Zach Robinson's and
Speaker 2: say that he's going to have the pick of the
Speaker 2: litter of all these jobs. And I think a big
Speaker 2: part of the reason people are wondering, well, what's taking
Speaker 2: so long? And I know the Bears filled their position
Speaker 2: pretty quickly with Shane Waldern, but I think one of
Speaker 2: the things that's taking so long is that there's still
Speaker 2: four teams that don't have a head coach yet. So
Speaker 2: until we know who those four hires are going to be.
Speaker 2: And then now we still have some you know, teams
Speaker 2: like last night Jim Harbaugh, you knows the coach of
Speaker 2: the Chargers, Like those teams don't have staffs either. So
Speaker 2: until some of these dominoes start to fall, you'd ever
Speaker 2: know who some of these hot coordinator candidates are free
Speaker 2: agent candidates or are gonna end up like a McDaniel's
Speaker 2: where they're gonna end up going, because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of chip you know, uh, there's a lot of balls
Speaker 2: in the air right now in terms of the coaching cycle.
Speaker 1: I would just say on on Robinson and to that
Speaker 1: point that he can wait, you get a better title,
Speaker 1: you have more control, he gets around your own show.
Speaker 1: You probably get paid more to I. I if he's
Speaker 1: going to be that complacent with him, be like, I'll
Speaker 1: be a head coach eventually whatever. That's kind of well,
Speaker 1: isn't that attitude kind of scary?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I suppose, But I guess where I'm coming from is
Speaker 2: more from the fact that if it goes wrong here,
Speaker 2: then you're in career rebilitation mode after that, Whereas if
Speaker 2: you stay where you're at and you know that it's
Speaker 2: going to be successful, or you take another job that's
Speaker 2: a better job, then maybe you're not in that same
Speaker 2: book or that in that same uh, you know, on
Speaker 2: that same path.
Speaker 1: He could he could get a better job this year,
Speaker 1: but there's there's a finite amount of offensive coordinator jobs.
Speaker 2: I just look at Bill O'Brien, and first of all,
Speaker 2: just reading the tea leaves that whole situation. I don't
Speaker 2: think Bill O'Brien could have gotten out of here fast
Speaker 2: enough after last year. I don't think he had any
Speaker 2: real interest in coming back. Some of that's obviously because
Speaker 2: Bill's not the head coach here anymore, and Bill's his guy.
Speaker 2: But I look at that situation and now he's going
Speaker 2: back to college, which I don't think he really wanted
Speaker 2: to be in the college game. And he's technically co
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator at Ohio State right with with your guy
Speaker 2: Brian Hartline. So he basically took a demotion just to
Speaker 2: get out of here. And I don't think that his
Speaker 2: services at the NFL level, because there are some openings
Speaker 2: around the league. He could have potentially latched on with
Speaker 2: Bill someplace else. Things like that. I don't necessarily think
Speaker 2: that there was a ton of options for him because
Speaker 2: of how whether it was his fault or not. And
Speaker 2: I think both of you, you and I have absolved
Speaker 2: him of a lot of wrongdoing from last year with
Speaker 2: the Patriots. He coordinated one of the worst offenses in
Speaker 2: the NFL last year. That's just the bottom line. And
Speaker 2: I look at some of these guys and if I
Speaker 2: was them, I would just say the Patriots. It's more
Speaker 2: the Patriots selling me on the job than the other
Speaker 2: way around. If I'm like a guy like Zach Robinson,
Speaker 2: where it's I need to hear from New England what
Speaker 2: their plan is to upgrade personnel wise, because remember you
Speaker 2: have a first time head coach here in New England.
Speaker 2: You also don't really know from the outside looking in
Speaker 2: who's running personnel. And I think that this is part
Speaker 2: of the other problem with all of this is that
Speaker 2: when you don't go out and make a real GM
Speaker 2: higher these candidates on the coaching carousel, they don't necessarily
Speaker 2: know who's in charge, which I think is something that's
Speaker 2: a little bit tricky as well. So if you don't know, you.
Speaker 1: Don't think they'll the last in the in the meetings,
Speaker 1: and you don't think the Patriots would tell them if
Speaker 1: they really want the guy to lay out the organizational structure.
Speaker 1: I get they won't lay it out for us, but
Speaker 1: you don't think they'll lay it out for them if
Speaker 1: they really want it. If it's a guy they really.
Speaker 2: Want, I think they would. But that I'm just saying
Speaker 2: that if I if I'm a guy like Zach Robinson. Again,
Speaker 2: that's my first question, right is well, what what who's
Speaker 2: picking the players around here? Like, who's the personnel guy,
Speaker 2: who's got final say? Who's the guy that's going to
Speaker 2: be picking the groceries for me? And am I gonna
Speaker 2: have say maybe that? I think out of all the
Speaker 2: things that you could maybe sell one of these these
Speaker 2: coordinator candidates on, it's them being allowed to have some
Speaker 2: say in in the personnel side of things they have.
Speaker 2: You know, let's take Zach Robinson. You know, kind of
Speaker 2: stay with that with Zach Robinson, like he wants to
Speaker 2: come here in New England potentially and build like a
Speaker 2: Sean McVay offense. So to him, it's probably this is
Speaker 2: the quarterbacks and the draft that I like for that offense.
Speaker 2: These are the type of receivers that I need. These
Speaker 2: are the type of linemen that I need, and maybe
Speaker 2: he has a way, some say, in being able to
Speaker 2: put all those things together, because I did want to
Speaker 2: talk about this a little bit when you start to
Speaker 2: talk about making this McVeigh offense here in New England,
Speaker 2: which I think based off of the interviews that the
Speaker 2: Patriots have had at the coordinator spot, it does seem
Speaker 2: like Gerrod Mayo wants to go in a different direction
Speaker 2: schematically and would prefer to go in a Sean McVay
Speaker 2: type of.
Speaker 1: Direction, minus that whole Josh McDaniels report.
Speaker 2: Minus Josh McDaniels, who I think is obviously getting his
Speaker 2: name floated out there because of more or less of
Speaker 2: his reputation, and not necessarily like the Tea Leaves, like
Speaker 2: every other coordinator that they've interviewed has been from the
Speaker 2: McVeigh tree.
Speaker 1: There was a report when Mayo first got hired that
Speaker 1: was he would like he preferred, not preferred, but like
Speaker 1: he was very interested in McDaniels.
Speaker 2: I could see that. I mean, why wouldn't you be right?
Speaker 2: And I know that some Patriots fans are going to
Speaker 2: look at it and say, oh God, not a not
Speaker 2: McDaniel's not a retread again, YadA YadA, YadA. But I
Speaker 2: think the bottom line, and we've talked about this with
Speaker 2: a guy like McDaniels Alex, is that he has head
Speaker 2: coaching experience and he has coordinator, you know, head coach
Speaker 2: of the offense coordinator type experience, where for a first
Speaker 2: time head coach, having a guy that's that experience on
Speaker 2: that side of the ball, that can run the show
Speaker 2: basically offensively is really appealing. Whether you agree with Josh
Speaker 2: mcdaniels's schematics, whether you want to go back to their
Speaker 2: old system and stick with what they've been doing around
Speaker 2: here for the past twenty five years or not. The
Speaker 2: experience factor is a big one with McDaniels, whereas with
Speaker 2: some of these other guys, Kaylee Robinson, even Pitcher, like
Speaker 2: those guys haven't run the show yet, so who knows,
Speaker 2: But just going to like the McVeigh stuff quickly. If
Speaker 2: you look at some of the things that they're hallmarks
Speaker 2: right in terms of formations, they run a lot condensed formations,
Speaker 2: three receiver condensed formations. In those three receiver The type
Speaker 2: of receivers that they like in San fran and in
Speaker 2: La are bigger, stockier, explosive receivers that can block. They
Speaker 2: don't necessarily like the Pop Douglases. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that there wouldn't be a spot in the offense for
Speaker 2: Pop Douglas that I think there would be. But you
Speaker 2: think about the Rams, you think about Cooper Cup, you
Speaker 2: think about Puka Nakua, right like, those guys are are
Speaker 2: bigger guys, bigger, sturdier receivers. A big reason why is
Speaker 2: because they run a lot eleven personnel. So so those
Speaker 2: guys are asked to block a lot at the point
Speaker 2: of attack.
Speaker 1: In the run in the condensed formations too, so they're
Speaker 1: you know, not out on an island with a corner
Speaker 1: where they can just kind of alay.
Speaker 2: It, right, so they're basically blocking. They're basically having like
Speaker 2: tight end type assignments in the run game, and that
Speaker 2: that means that you have to have some size to
Speaker 2: you and you have to be able to block and
Speaker 2: hold up inside like that. They also really like obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, yards after catch are a big part of it.
Speaker 2: So they they look at good route runners, good blockers,
Speaker 2: explosive ball carriers, right like those are the you know,
Speaker 2: the Deebo Samuels, the brandon I Yuks, the George Kittles
Speaker 2: obviously in San Francisco, and then I just mentioned the
Speaker 2: two guys in LA. So that's a very specific type
Speaker 2: of receiver. And I'm sure on this program, if they
Speaker 2: do hire Zach Robinson to be the offensive coordinator, for example,
Speaker 2: we're going to talk a lot about the type of
Speaker 2: receivers in this class and how they fit into that system.
Speaker 2: And it's not going to be I mentioned to you
Speaker 2: last night, Bart that I was watching Troy Franklin from
Speaker 2: from Oregon. Right it's it's not gonna be Troy Franklin, right,
Speaker 2: Like the one hundred and eighty five pound receiver soaking
Speaker 2: wet is not going to be the guy that you're
Speaker 2: going to put in the Puka nakua role in this offense.
Speaker 2: It's just not going to work out. So that's a
Speaker 2: big part of it as well, is that if they're
Speaker 2: going to go in this different direction, then they need
Speaker 2: to start building the scheme in this different direction. So
Speaker 2: I understand where you're coming from, and I I know
Speaker 2: that I don't want to be like too alarmist about it.
Speaker 2: The whole thing. I don't think it's that dire that
Speaker 2: they're not going to be able to find somebody to
Speaker 2: take the job or anything like that.
Speaker 1: You do need to breathe on this stuff. It's once
Speaker 1: a day I'm getting a text from you about it.
Speaker 2: It's just there's that's like that's the man like, because that's.
Speaker 1: One thing if you text me when like somebody got
Speaker 1: a job and you're like, oh, this guy's off the board.
Speaker 2: But like, I don't think it's a very just.
Speaker 1: No news and you text it to me, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you need to take take a walk.
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of there's not a lot of
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of positive buzz coming about this
Speaker 2: this job. I'm just gonna say it to you that way, like,
Speaker 2: there's it's not a very desirable job. And I think
Speaker 2: the biggest reason why is, like I just said, you
Speaker 2: have to it's a risk. It's a risk that if
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out, then you're gonna have to go
Speaker 2: tail between the legs, like back to Sean McVay in
Speaker 2: LA and be like save my career. You know, Like
Speaker 2: it's a big risk in terms of what they it's
Speaker 2: a ball of clay, but it's not necessarily a very
Speaker 2: known commodity going on here in Chicago, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe they're they draft Caleb Williams, but they also have
Speaker 2: Justin Fields, and you know who Justin Fields is, and
Speaker 2: Justin Fields hasn't flamed out quite as hard as like
Speaker 2: mac Jones has yet. So maybe Shane Waldern believes that
Speaker 2: he can fix Justin Fields. Maybe Shane Waldern believes that
Speaker 2: with Marvin Harrison Junior, he can definitely fix Justin Fields.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if the Patriots have that. I
Speaker 2: don't think Mac Jones around the league as rep right
Speaker 2: now is he's fixable. I think that that's a they
Speaker 2: need to move on. They need to clean break from
Speaker 2: both sides. So I hear you, I understand that. You
Speaker 2: know I'm a little bit worried about it. I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I am a little bit worried
Speaker 2: about it. So we can talk about the coordinators. I
Speaker 2: think on the defensive side of the ball quickly. It
Speaker 2: does really sound like DeMarcus Comington's gonna get that job
Speaker 2: as the defensive coordinator for the Patriots. But the two
Speaker 2: things that I'm interested in some of these guys that
Speaker 2: they've interviewed other than him, like Hodges from the Saints,
Speaker 2: Sir Christian Parker from the Broncos, who is a really
Speaker 2: well thought of defensive backs coach, and those two guys
Speaker 2: from externally, let's start there. I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 2: those guys are being interviewed with position coach roles potentially
Speaker 2: in mind, like they did last year with Adrian Klem
Speaker 2: So maybe Christian Parker, depending on what happens with Belichick's staff,
Speaker 2: you know, Mike Pellegrino, Brian Belichick, maybe Christian Parker is
Speaker 2: brought into coach the secondary. Hodges is maybe a candidate
Speaker 2: for linebackers coach. I would say the same thing about
Speaker 2: Tim Lubka as a coordinator for a candidate for linebackers coach.
Speaker 2: So all of those things make sense if like that's
Speaker 2: the staff, right. Grodmeyo obviously is the head coach as
Speaker 2: a big hand in the defense, DeMarcus Covington is a
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator, and then those guys are filling in the
Speaker 2: staff on the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Hodges is interesting because he was co defensive
Speaker 1: coordinators with DeMarcus Covington at Eastern Illinois I think in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen before they both jumped to the NFL. So
Speaker 1: those two guys that know each other have a working relationship,
Speaker 1: and if you're Covington now you're running your own staff,
Speaker 1: having a familiar face there definitely makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 1: The other guy that really interests me you mentioned is
Speaker 1: Parker simply because he's not a cornerbacks coach and he's
Speaker 1: not a safety's coach. He's a defensive backs coach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's his title. The Broncos don't employ people in those
Speaker 1: two other titles. They have an assistant defensive backs coach.
Speaker 1: But how many times have we heard Patriots corners and safeties.
Speaker 1: We asked them about their position room and they say, well,
Speaker 1: we're all defensive backs. We all consider ourselves one position
Speaker 1: Like that is definite, and you see it with guys
Speaker 1: like Jonathan Jones and guys like Miles Bryant. That is
Speaker 1: definitely a core philosophy within the BUILDINGSOL. So a guy
Speaker 1: with Christian Parker's experience working with both positions and kind
Speaker 1: of tying them together in one group, if that's a
Speaker 1: philosophy they want to carry over, talk about a guy
Speaker 1: that has the perfect mindset to do that. I don't
Speaker 1: know how many other teams I know some teams will
Speaker 1: have a cornerbacks coach, a safeties coach, and then an
Speaker 1: assistant defensive backs coach who kind of floats between the two.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many teams just have one defensive
Speaker 1: backs coach and nobody specifically with the corners or safety.
Speaker 1: So if that's something the Patriots want to emphasize, talk
Speaker 1: about a uniquely qualified guy to do that. Yeah, Andy,
Speaker 1: Andy worked with I'm gonna be bad at Names today
Speaker 1: Patricks Tan, right, and he helped with the rise of
Speaker 1: Patrister Tan, which is a nice.
Speaker 2: Thing, especially for Christian Gonzales. Right.
Speaker 1: Bring him in and similar kind of player, very similar.
Speaker 2: Kind of players. Christian Gonzalez has talked about Patrick Artan
Speaker 2: is somebody that he watches and tries to emulate a lot.
Speaker 2: So I could definitely see that those two guys working
Speaker 2: well together. And like I said with Brian Belichick, with
Speaker 2: Mike Pellegrino, if Bill gets the Falcons job, then those
Speaker 2: two guys, I would say, there's a good chance that
Speaker 2: they follow him to Atlanta. So you're starting over in
Speaker 2: the secondary, is my point. Coaching wise, If you can
Speaker 2: bring him a guy like Christian Parker in to be
Speaker 2: the DB's coach, and then maybe you get him an
Speaker 2: assistant and then that's he's sort of coordinating the back end.
Speaker 2: And then DeMarcus Covington, who's got more experience up front
Speaker 2: with the defensive line, he then coordinates the front end
Speaker 2: of the defense in the in the the front seven
Speaker 2: and the lion of scrimmage, and then you kind of
Speaker 2: marry it together, right and that that that's how a
Speaker 2: lot of teams have done it in the past, and
Speaker 2: a lot of teams do it in general, going all
Speaker 2: the way back to you know, Bill's days in Cleveland
Speaker 2: with Nick Saban right where those two guys won was
Speaker 2: according uh, more of a coverage, you know, secondary coach.
Speaker 2: One of them was more of a front pressure type
Speaker 2: of coach, and they were able to combine both of
Speaker 2: their their brains and and build out a defense from
Speaker 2: the inside out from there. So definitely a doable situation.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I like that. The other thing I wanted to touch on,
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna take the calls because I did.
Speaker 2: The call screener is lit up. We have four people
Speaker 2: on on hold of we really appreciated eight five to
Speaker 2: five pats, five hundreds of the phone number We're gonna
Speaker 2: get to all these in the second. Uh, Steve Belichick.
Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see what happens with Steve.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: So I was talking, you know, I wrote a piece
Speaker 2: on Patriots dot com, uh with a couple of the
Speaker 2: former players, Devin mccordy, Dante high Tower, Ja mccollins, Brandon's
Speaker 2: It was really fun to catch up with Brandon Spikes
Speaker 2: by the way out Skuy, You'd like run through a
Speaker 2: brick wall for you know that guy. Oh God, that
Speaker 2: guy's got that just intensity, that that you just love.
Speaker 2: Uh Staff right, Well, he's actually working at Florida with yeah,
Speaker 2: with his alma mater. So he's a I don't know
Speaker 2: if he has an official coaching title or for he's
Speaker 2: more just kind of like a recruiter slash, you know,
Speaker 2: football liaison type of person. But yeah, he's working down
Speaker 2: in Florida right now. But uh, in general, you're just
Speaker 2: talking to uh his guy's Devin mccordy kind of laid
Speaker 2: out for me what exactly Drawed and Steve did behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, because I know this was a big question
Speaker 2: for a lot of people the last couple of years,
Speaker 2: like who was doing what and it was it was
Speaker 2: pretty much exactly what you might have thought, but it
Speaker 2: was cool to have somebody that was in the building,
Speaker 2: that was in the room actually lay out exactly how
Speaker 2: it went. And uh. He said that Gerard was more
Speaker 2: of like the motivator. He'd get up to the front
Speaker 2: of the room. He'd lead a lot of the of
Speaker 2: the meetings and be the guy that was, you know,
Speaker 2: sort of the front facing guy. And he would get
Speaker 2: up there and he would say, what the mentality, what
Speaker 2: the mindset that they needed to play the game with,
Speaker 2: And I'm this is me speaking, I'm kind of you know,
Speaker 2: dis guessing, you know, things like we gotta stop the run,
Speaker 2: we gotta do this, we gotta play tough in this pot.
Speaker 2: You know, we gotta be physical here, like things like that, right,
Speaker 2: more of like a mindset or an overall big picture
Speaker 2: type of view on things. And then Steve would come
Speaker 2: in and he would talk about how the game plan
Speaker 2: and the calls that they were actually going to call
Speaker 2: on the sheet, how those things would tie together to
Speaker 2: the things that Gerard was talking about. So it was
Speaker 2: like Gerard was like the motivator, big picture guy, and
Speaker 2: then Steve was like the x's and o's this is
Speaker 2: how we're actually gonna go out there and do it
Speaker 2: type of guy. And that that worked. That relationship really worked.
Speaker 2: Those two guys have been really close. We see them
Speaker 2: around each other all the time, around the facility, on
Speaker 2: the road, things like that. I think that there's a
Speaker 2: really good argument to try to keep Steve around. And
Speaker 2: I know he hasn't a formally interviewed for the defensive
Speaker 2: coordinator position, and I know Mike Reese has floated out
Speaker 2: maybe an assistant head coach title instead of a defensive coordinator,
Speaker 2: but whatever it ends up being, whatever his title ends
Speaker 2: up being, I would be making a pitch for Steve
Speaker 2: to stay whether or not his father gets a job
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been on you with that, and I think
Speaker 1: there's a case he does. You just look at the
Speaker 1: personal element of it, having to move his family right
Speaker 1: and all of that, and yeah, it's a good point.
Speaker 1: You know, this is where he's from, obviously born and
Speaker 1: raised here, So I look the draw coaching with his
Speaker 1: dad is obviously significant. The other thing, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to speak for him, but looking at it from
Speaker 1: the outside looking in, you figure Steve's gonna want to
Speaker 1: coach after his dad is retired, and I think it
Speaker 1: could help expediate that to kind of go out on
Speaker 1: his own right. And he's not totally out on his
Speaker 1: own in New England, and you know, we don't know
Speaker 1: what his road would be. It's not like he's he
Speaker 1: probably isn't going to be a coordinator out right, but
Speaker 1: you know, whatever he's in charge of has success here.
Speaker 1: I think that probably helps expediate that process a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, let's get to these calls.
Speaker 2: I've never seen this before, Marine, I've never seen the
Speaker 2: whole screen filled like this before. This is pretty cool,
Speaker 2: all right, So let's let's go through the calls.
Speaker 1: It's the off season, man, it's an off season showing people.
Speaker 2: People are into it. Man, Eric is in New Jersey?
Speaker 2: What's up? Eric?
Speaker 4: Evan? I have to push back on, you know, one
Speaker 4: of is, you know, one of the philosophies that you've
Speaker 4: been you know, you've been staying for. You know, you
Speaker 4: can't necessarily draft the receiver. I don't believe necessarily that
Speaker 4: we have to draft Marvels and Harrison, but I just
Speaker 4: really think that it's the quarterback that you're going to
Speaker 4: get it. You know, you're fighting for Jaden Daniels. I
Speaker 4: think May and Williams are going to go first. So
Speaker 4: with that being because, I mean, look at look at
Speaker 4: the Cleveland they had Joe Thomas, Joel Battino, Alex Mack.
Speaker 4: They built that line up and get a quarterback behind that.
Speaker 4: So I mean, I think there's a couple of ways
Speaker 4: to get a cast, you know, to get to what
Speaker 4: you need to get to. But but that being said,
Speaker 4: you know who do you see if we had Jayden Daniels,
Speaker 4: who would be the best offensive coordinator to work with here?
Speaker 4: And I'll take it off the line, Thanks.
Speaker 2: Doug, Thanks Eric. Yeah, so I've been I've been pushing
Speaker 2: back a little bit, Alex as you could shocker could
Speaker 2: imagine on the Marvin Harrison junior thing, because part of
Speaker 2: it is, I'll be honest with you, I've I've heard
Speaker 2: this take from so many different people on in my replies,
Speaker 2: and I mentioned the calls we got to draft Marvin
Speaker 2: Harrison junior. We got a draft Marvin Harrison junior. And
Speaker 2: I just want to play Devil's advocate, right like, just
Speaker 2: there is Yes, there are a lot of really good
Speaker 2: arguments for taking Marvin Harrison Junior, but it's not the
Speaker 2: only way to go. Just as the caller just said.
Speaker 1: I can I give you a fun fact. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are missing. Yes, Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 1: is not the last wide receiver that will be available
Speaker 1: in the NFL draft. In fact, he's not the only
Speaker 1: good one available this year, and there will be other
Speaker 1: drafts after this year too, So just remind people that, yes,
Speaker 1: he's a tremendous player, he's not the only good wide
Speaker 1: receiver in college football. He won't be the only good
Speaker 1: wide receiver in college football.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good point. I just I subscribe to
Speaker 2: the theory and this is just my take on roster building.
Speaker 2: You can disagree with me, that's fine. But my take
Speaker 2: on roster building is that you build from the inside out.
Speaker 2: I think that the best teams are built from the
Speaker 2: inside out. And I think that all the shiny new
Speaker 2: toys in terms of the weapons or playmakers, whatever you
Speaker 2: want to call them, on an offense, those always come
Speaker 2: after for the most part, after you've built out the
Speaker 2: other areas of your team. And I look at the
Speaker 2: teams that are currently sitting in the championship weekend right now,
Speaker 2: Alex and all four of these teams are built that way,
Speaker 2: all four of them. And I'm talking about on offense.
Speaker 2: And when I say inside out, yeah, the quarterback plays
Speaker 2: in the middle of the field, so I count the
Speaker 2: quarterback right, quarterback, offensive line. And then once you have
Speaker 2: those that structure, quarterback, offensive line, offensive system. Once you
Speaker 2: have that structure in place, that's when you make the
Speaker 2: trade for Christian McCaffrey. That's when you go out and
Speaker 2: you get you know, weapons in the draft like Detroit did,
Speaker 2: Jamiir Gibbs, Sam Laporta, They did all those types of things.
Speaker 2: These teams that are left standing have done all those
Speaker 2: the extra cherries on top once they've already had the
Speaker 2: rest of this stuff in place. So when the Lions
Speaker 2: went into last year's draft, well, yeah, the Lions don't
Speaker 2: need to take an offensive lineman because their offensive lines
Speaker 2: absolutely loaded. So and they like Jared Goff so they
Speaker 2: didn't have to take a quarterback. So Jamiir Gibbs and
Speaker 2: Sam Laporta with two of their first three picks made
Speaker 2: sense for them. Those are two skilled player guys and
Speaker 2: positions of need for them that could come and put
Speaker 2: them over the top. And that's exactly what it's done.
Speaker 2: You look at baltim More, that team is completely built
Speaker 2: from the InsideOut offensively because always and they are probably
Speaker 2: one of the best roster building teams in the league
Speaker 2: in my mind. So I am just looking at it
Speaker 2: and I get it. Some Patriots fans look at it
Speaker 2: and say, well, as a two to three year rebuild anyways,
Speaker 2: so let's just take the best player available. The safest
Speaker 2: pick is Marvin Harrison Junior because he's the most talented
Speaker 2: player in the draft. And maybe you're right, Maybe you're
Speaker 2: right about that. I just look at it the other way.
Speaker 2: I look at it as Calvin Johnson in Detroit, Larry
Speaker 2: Fitzgerald in Arizona until they had that one year with
Speaker 2: Kurt Warner, uh Careerrell, yeah, trel Owens his whole career,
Speaker 2: and then right now, just a current example is Garrett
Speaker 2: Wilson with the Jets, who has back to back a
Speaker 2: thousand yard seasons offensive Rookie of the Year last year
Speaker 2: with New York in twenty twenty two, and they can't
Speaker 2: win anything, and why because they don't have a quarterback,
Speaker 2: they don't have an offensive line that blocks well, they
Speaker 2: have a lot of holes elsewhere on the roster. So, yes,
Speaker 2: you could draft Marvin Harrison Junior and you could do it.
Speaker 2: You could build it out properly around him and do
Speaker 2: all these different types of things. But I just think
Speaker 2: that that's I will always subscribe to the theory that
Speaker 2: that's the last piece. The receiver is the last piece
Speaker 2: that you add to it, because if you don't have
Speaker 2: anybody that can block, and you don't have a quarterback
Speaker 2: that can get him the ball, it's a waste. He's wasting.
Speaker 2: You're wasting away the best years of his career in
Speaker 2: the cheapest years of his career with a team around
Speaker 2: him that can't get him the football.
Speaker 1: There's very little evidence that you can start or rebuild
Speaker 1: with a wide receiver successfully started rebuild. I mean, teams
Speaker 1: have tried to do it. And I texted you this
Speaker 1: this week. I actually feel like Patriots fans overrate Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison Junior a little bit. Not in the sense that
Speaker 1: he's not a great player, but he's not going to
Speaker 1: come in and fix everything. He doesn't come in and
Speaker 1: then suddenly you know you're a top ten offense. And
Speaker 1: that's not to say like, yes, the lad no c
Speaker 1: all right, So you hire an offense Cornadi, you add
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison junior. If you don't touch anything else, you're
Speaker 1: still a bottom half offense in the league. Do you
Speaker 1: tick up a little bit? Yeah? Probably, But you're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, compared to you look at Evan You've talked
Speaker 1: about this, the Houston Texans being the model for the Patriots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you hit on the quarterback position. The Texans. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say that their receivers are bad, they're solid,
Speaker 1: they're better than the Patriots. But do they have a
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison junior? Do they have a Gary Wilson? Do
Speaker 1: they have that?
Speaker 4: Real?
Speaker 1: Like Tank Dell is a fun player, he's good, But
Speaker 1: I mean, is Nico Collins one of these like household names.
Speaker 2: That's like, you know, the Texans are a perfect example.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 2: They should be going and getting the number one receiver
Speaker 2: this offseason right.
Speaker 1: Like exactly exactly. So that's where I look at it,
Speaker 1: Like you look at what a quarterback can do compared
Speaker 1: to you look at what a wide receiver can do.
Speaker 1: And it is a rebuild. You are starting from scratch,
Speaker 1: So why not shoot for the moon? Why not? Why
Speaker 1: not go bigger go home, and that's taking a quarterback.
Speaker 1: So I just you talk about the impact the the
Speaker 1: position can have, nothing touches quarterback in terms of that impact.
Speaker 1: And nobody's going to debate that. Even if you're a
Speaker 1: big Margaret Harrison person, you can't debate that quarterback is
Speaker 1: the ultimate impact position.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I just I can't stress enough how terribly
Speaker 2: awful the Patriots offensive line was last year. And this
Speaker 2: is sort of that argument of let's take the quarterback
Speaker 2: out of it for a second. Let's say they do
Speaker 2: their homework on the quarterbacks and for whatever reason, they
Speaker 2: just don't like them. Right. I'm not saying that I
Speaker 2: agree with that, but let's just.
Speaker 1: Kill you either. But we've and somebody said yesterday that
Speaker 1: they like at least two of them. But I've said
Speaker 1: this before, and I'll put the qualifier on it. If
Speaker 1: you don't like the quarterback, don't take a quarterback just
Speaker 1: to take a quarter.
Speaker 2: Right, That's how you end up with Zach Wilson. So
Speaker 2: you look at.
Speaker 1: Well, no, they had options with Zach Wilson and they
Speaker 1: still took him.
Speaker 2: That's true, but there are other options. I don't think
Speaker 2: we're I mean, justin field is a better option. I
Speaker 2: shouldn't say that the offensive line was dead last IMpower
Speaker 2: pluck win rate last year. I have no idea who's
Speaker 2: coaching that group right now. I don't think it's going
Speaker 2: to be Adrian klem So that's another opening that they're
Speaker 2: going to have to fill. If you tell me that
Speaker 2: between now and April, they re sign Mike on Winnu,
Speaker 2: they acquire a veteran tackle that they feel like can
Speaker 2: can not a Riley Reef right, like somebody that can
Speaker 2: come in here and actually play right. And they're in
Speaker 2: a new system with a good offensive line coach. And
Speaker 2: when I say new system, this McVeigh Shanahan system, one
Speaker 2: of the good things about it is that it's a
Speaker 2: really it makes life a lot easier on the offensive
Speaker 2: line because of how much they move the pocket. So
Speaker 2: that allows the quarter It almost allows this scheme to
Speaker 2: protect the quarterback in a lot of ways, so you're
Speaker 2: not making the offensive line, you know, leaving them out
Speaker 2: to dry as much and just like straight drop back
Speaker 2: type of situations. So if you're telling me that they
Speaker 2: do all four of those things on when who upgraded
Speaker 2: veteran tackle? Offensive line code? Who I like and a
Speaker 2: scheme that I like. Then maybe we can get to
Speaker 2: April and say I would take mgh over Joe Alt.
Speaker 2: But until I checked all four of those boxes, I'm
Speaker 2: taking the tackle, I'm taking the blindside protector. I'm building
Speaker 2: it out through the line of scrimmage just like Detroit did.
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to play play man football, like you
Speaker 2: like to say, Alex, right, like you know, play a
Speaker 2: little man football for a little while, and hopefully you
Speaker 2: find that quarterback some way, somehow. The Lions found it
Speaker 2: with Jared Goff just trading for Jared Goff Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 2: Maybe they find it in the second round. Maybe it's Penix,
Speaker 2: maybe it's Bo Nix. I take the say up, but
Speaker 2: maybe it's JJ McCarthy right like something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but maybe that's the direction that they go in. But again,
Speaker 2: this is like an argument that we're gonna have for
Speaker 2: the next four months of if not quarterback, do you
Speaker 2: go tackle or receiver? And I'm just saying in that situation,
Speaker 2: if not quarterback, I'm going tackle. That's where I'm at.
Speaker 1: And I think part of it is too, you have
Speaker 1: to factor because I saw some people in the chat say, oh,
Speaker 1: if you don't draft Marvin Harrison junior, or and you
Speaker 1: draft a quarterback who's he throwing it to? There's free
Speaker 1: agency just rounds two through seven. The reality of the
Speaker 1: quarterback position is outside of some massive I don't want
Speaker 1: to say flukes, but not like brock parties in an omaly.
Speaker 1: You can't build your off season around planning to find
Speaker 1: Brock Party in the seventh round. That's just not it's
Speaker 1: not gonna work.
Speaker 2: And there's also right, and there's also the side of
Speaker 2: it that you know, I've laid this out before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you need there's three elements of offense, right, it's system,
Speaker 2: it's receivers, it's four I guess quarterback, offensive line. Right,
Speaker 2: like those four boxes, you can probably running you can No,
Speaker 2: I'm forgetting running backs. You can probably do it with
Speaker 2: two or three out of the four. You can do it.
Speaker 2: You can if you have a really good offensive line
Speaker 2: and you have a really good quarterback, you can probably
Speaker 2: make do with lesser than receivers. Just like the rock
Speaker 2: Party model of the opposite is.
Speaker 1: Sure, you also don't need to have lesser than receivers. Again,
Speaker 1: to go back to the Texans, they found Tank Dell
Speaker 1: as serviceable player in what the third round? The third round,
Speaker 1: where did they get Nico Collins. You look at some
Speaker 1: of the top young receivers in the league. These guys
Speaker 1: are day two, day three picks in this draft. Evan,
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready for the Senior Bowl here and I
Speaker 1: usually pick you know, three or four players in each
Speaker 1: position to highlight when I write my preview, I can't
Speaker 1: shop any of these receivers. I mean, this is as
Speaker 1: deep a wide receiver class as we've seen in a
Speaker 1: long time. You can get guys who will be legitimate playmakers,
Speaker 1: not just like there in filling out a roster spot.
Speaker 1: But now you have to find the right guy. That's
Speaker 1: not saying it'll be all of them. You got to
Speaker 1: find the right guy develop them. But there are guys
Speaker 1: to be found and developed on Day two and maybe
Speaker 1: even early day three that you know have thousand yard potential,
Speaker 1: that have at the very least low level wide receiver one,
Speaker 1: high level wide receiver two potential. And that's at the least.
Speaker 1: You know, there's guys not named Marvin Harrison Junior in
Speaker 1: this class that will maybe even go on Day two
Speaker 1: that have the potential to be Pro bowlers. So you
Speaker 1: can't say that about quarterback. You can't say it as
Speaker 1: much about tackle. You do a little bit. We'll get
Speaker 1: into that, but yeah, there's just and then you go
Speaker 1: to free agency too, you go to the trade market.
Speaker 1: There's so many other ways to get wide receivers. Again,
Speaker 1: Marvin Harrison Junior is not the only wide receiver who
Speaker 1: will be available in NFL history, and I feel like
Speaker 1: some people losing sight.
Speaker 2: Of the we're also looking at. Like to your point,
Speaker 2: you look across the playoffs this year, you know, you
Speaker 2: look in Houston. Nico collins Is has a breakout year
Speaker 2: with CJ. Stroud. Tank Dell was on that trajectory until
Speaker 2: he got hurt. Both those guys are mid round draft picks.
Speaker 2: You look in Green Bay Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs
Speaker 2: both mid round draft picks. Jaden Reid also a mid
Speaker 2: round draft pick. None of those guys are for round picks.
Speaker 2: You look in Detroit. Personally, I a Monroe Saint Brown
Speaker 2: going where he went was because sometimes teams overthink it.
Speaker 2: A Monroe Saint Brown was awesome at USC. The big
Speaker 2: reason why he went later was because of his forty times,
Speaker 2: because of his size. Right, like those types of things,
Speaker 2: but he was he was a football player. He was
Speaker 2: a baller at USC and his tape was phenomenal, but
Speaker 2: he falls in the draft because of his size and
Speaker 2: things like that. Sam laporta early second round pick, So
Speaker 2: that all these teams that are are left standing, I
Speaker 2: guess besides the Niners, but even Brandon Niyuk was a
Speaker 2: late first round guy. Like he wasn't you know, top
Speaker 2: ten type of pick, right, So none of these teams
Speaker 2: that are left standing right now. Zay Flowers early twenties
Speaker 2: right last year with the Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, the Patriots can realistically get to
Speaker 1: if they find a wide receiver in that range.
Speaker 5: They really like.
Speaker 2: There really isn't a whole lot of teams in this
Speaker 2: playoffs that have gone far with the number one bona
Speaker 2: fide you know, Jamar Chase, and I'm it obviously has
Speaker 2: happened in recent years, so I'm not saying it's never happened,
Speaker 2: but Tyreek Kill Jamar Chase have done it. But other
Speaker 2: than that, you know, the this year has been a
Speaker 2: good year for what I'm trying to kind of trying
Speaker 2: to say, which is the entire roster building through the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage building through the quarterback. You know, things
Speaker 2: like that. This these teams are not loaded with like
Speaker 2: first round Marvin Harrison junior type receiver talent. They might
Speaker 2: have guys that have gotten to you know, Pro Bowls
Speaker 2: or a thousand yard receiving years because of their talent,
Speaker 2: but it was later on in the draft. So it's
Speaker 2: a good point. All right, Let's go to Max Is
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. What's up. Max?
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, I'm curious which players on the roster and
Speaker 5: and fur agency you see it is a better or
Speaker 5: worse fit with a makes a offense. I know you
Speaker 5: mentioned to Mario Douglas already. You know it'll be interested
Speaker 5: and how you think he might be used, you know's
Speaker 5: a way to scale up what the Rams did with
Speaker 5: too to out well this year. And then curious if
Speaker 5: you think of when it would still be heap to
Speaker 5: fit at right tackle.
Speaker 6: Thanks?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Max, it's a good question on on one two
Speaker 2: because you know he's a bigger power downhill run blocker
Speaker 2: at the position if they're going to run outside zone
Speaker 2: here Alex, and it's not it's not a great fit
Speaker 2: to have a three and forty pound tackle you know,
Speaker 2: trying to block a stretch run that that's just not
Speaker 2: really what what that's all about. Do I think that
Speaker 2: he could do it? Yeah? Absolutely, I think he's just
Speaker 2: he's good enough. He's just talented enough to be able
Speaker 2: to do it. Is it a perfect fit?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And in reality, you know a guy like Cole Strange City,
Speaker 2: So those guys are a little bit more athletic and
Speaker 2: they'll a little bit have a little bit more you know,
Speaker 2: range and athleticism at their positions for the interior in
Speaker 2: that type of system. Another guy, not that anybody wants
Speaker 2: him back necessarily, but Trent Brown is definitely not a
Speaker 2: fit for that type of scheme. So if they go
Speaker 2: in that direction, it would be interesting to see what
Speaker 2: if they end up prioritizing on when WU on the
Speaker 2: same level, because I don't think that it's a great
Speaker 2: fit in terms of what they would want to do
Speaker 2: schematically versus his skill set.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It, And that's why some of this stuff with
Speaker 1: the free agency and the draft at certain positions, like
Speaker 1: we'll get into alignment and receivers, Like you said, we
Speaker 1: got to talk a little bit generally still, and I
Speaker 1: hate We've been doing this for months now, but it's
Speaker 1: who's coaching the team, right, Yeah, that's where that thing
Speaker 1: comes back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would actually be pretty fascinated to see
Speaker 2: how they they view on WHENU if they do hire
Speaker 2: Zach Robinson.
Speaker 1: You know what, at the same time, Zach Robinson's this
Speaker 1: like offensive genius incorporated three hundred and forty pounds tackle
Speaker 1: in a West Coast scheme. Maybe there's a way to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: You certainly can and you know, there's certain elements I
Speaker 2: should say of that scheme that on when it would
Speaker 2: be perfectly perfectly fine at it and probably really good
Speaker 2: at you know, they in LA after the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: against the Patriots where they lost and only scored three points.
Speaker 2: A big part of what McVeigh did, other than that
Speaker 2: obviously upgrading to Matthew Stafford, but a big part of
Speaker 2: what McVeigh did was he he incorporated more downhill run
Speaker 2: into their offense. Because teams were just sitting on the
Speaker 2: edges on the outside zone stuff. So he did incorporate
Speaker 2: a lot more duo in particular to run downhill and
Speaker 2: stress people in between the numbers so that they couldn't
Speaker 2: just put double edges out or six to one fronts
Speaker 2: like the Patriots used in that Super Bowl and just
Speaker 2: line up guys all across the front and you know,
Speaker 2: blow up outside zone because we can come at you
Speaker 2: if we have to, if that's how you're gonna play us.
Speaker 2: So in that respect, on when who obviously fits that
Speaker 2: box right, he can. You know, he's great on on
Speaker 2: double teams, duo schemes, things like that, and he would
Speaker 2: be fine in their dropback pass game, you know, when
Speaker 2: it comes to third down, you know, when it comes
Speaker 2: to two minutes, when it comes to those types of situations,
Speaker 2: he'd be perfectly fine in their Way Coast, you know
Speaker 2: what is more like a traditional West Coast package. When
Speaker 2: they get into that type of offense, their early down
Speaker 2: stuff is obviously very heavy outside zone. But when again
Speaker 2: at the third down, it's just it's a normal drop
Speaker 2: back passing game. Like it's obviously a little bit different
Speaker 2: than what the Patriots are currently doing, but it's it's
Speaker 2: cut from the same cloth and everything is so on
Speaker 2: when we would be fine in like three out of
Speaker 2: the four phases, it's just the base of that offense
Speaker 2: is outside zone, and he would not be a great
Speaker 2: fit in the base element of that scheme.
Speaker 1: So that could probably you could probably tell me if
Speaker 1: this is a comp better or you tell me how
Speaker 1: good of a compass is. But in twenty twenty one
Speaker 1: they made it work with the three hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: pound thirty nine year old Andrew Whitworth, who wasn't that
Speaker 1: mobile at the time. Right, If Whitworth can make it work,
Speaker 1: and I think he was on the left side right, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's playing the left tackle and Whitworth I
Speaker 2: do remember him being pretty. It's not so much about
Speaker 2: if you can cover ten to fifteen side to side.
Speaker 2: I think it's more about like those reach blocks on
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage or things like that, like if
Speaker 2: you're if you're out leverage and you have to reach
Speaker 2: the three technique as the tackle and he's playing inside
Speaker 2: of you, do you have the foot speed? Do you
Speaker 2: have the explosiveness out of your stance to then get
Speaker 2: inside of him and turn him out? Those types of
Speaker 2: things are difficult to do when you're when you're that size.
Speaker 2: So that's why a guy like on On WHENU or
Speaker 2: Trent Brown like they just want to come right at you.
Speaker 2: They don't want to have to be moving laterally, and
Speaker 2: I I it's not impossible for on Whenno to fit it,
Speaker 2: and I have seen him block outside zone in the
Speaker 2: past pretty well. It just is a much smaller sample
Speaker 2: size of what they've done here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got I got you all right?
Speaker 2: Mo Is in Orlando? What's up Moe?
Speaker 7: Hey, guys, longtime listener. First on Color, I gotta say
Speaker 7: enjoy any content that you guys put out. Thank you
Speaker 7: on this uh, you know, offseason moves and with New
Speaker 7: England having so much money to really spend, I really
Speaker 7: think that there is a path that we could really
Speaker 7: set New England's offense up for success.
Speaker 3: Like in the here and now.
Speaker 7: First step, I think resign one. You give him a
Speaker 7: tackle money if you have to, but I would put
Speaker 7: him at right guard. Go get yourself, Jonah Williams from
Speaker 7: the Bengals. There's your right tackle. Now here's where you
Speaker 7: guys might not like it so much, but you resigned
Speaker 7: Trent bound short short term deal and you then you
Speaker 7: draft like a developmental tackle on the third and have
Speaker 7: him take over once once Brown is gone. That would
Speaker 7: leave City so shifting over to left guard. Strange is
Speaker 7: now the odd man out. If David Andrews retires, you
Speaker 7: could try and develop him at center, or just you know,
Speaker 7: move up Jake Andrews as a starter, resigned Hunter Henry
Speaker 7: and Perrel Brown, draft another tight end and try and
Speaker 7: get yourself t Higg and free agency. Sounds like he
Speaker 7: might just come back on They just might franchise tag him.
Speaker 7: So if that's not possible, I think Mike Evans might
Speaker 7: be more realistic that way. When it comes to your
Speaker 7: third pick, take your quarterback. Hopefully May is there. I
Speaker 7: wouldn't mind Daniels, but I think May might be the
Speaker 7: better fit. And draft another receiver in the second round,
Speaker 7: and as well as Kendrick Bourne if you can the
Speaker 7: player's d and I just want to see if you
Speaker 7: guys agree if this is realistic or if this is
Speaker 7: something that the Patriots could actually, you know, make work.
Speaker 7: So I'll take my question off the Ears. Thank you guys.
Speaker 2: Thanks Mo. That was a lot. But I I in
Speaker 2: terms of like my dream offseason, I think Moe hit
Speaker 2: on a lot of the same things that I would
Speaker 2: hit on.
Speaker 1: I would say, besides the offensive line stuff, he pretty
Speaker 1: much nailed it right.
Speaker 2: It's basically you're you're looking at, you know, go after
Speaker 2: the big fish in the receiver market and the in
Speaker 2: free agency, whether it's t Higgins, Michael Pittman, Mike Evans
Speaker 2: by the way, yeah he's a good player, Calvin Ridley,
Speaker 2: you know whoever it ends up being. Bring Kendrick burn back,
Speaker 2: and then draft one of these you know, deep receiver class.
Speaker 2: Draft one of these guys in the third round, second,
Speaker 2: third round, right, and then you're looking at a receiver
Speaker 2: room of Michael Pittman, Junior Kendrick Bourne, the Mario Douglas
Speaker 2: and whoever the guy is that you draft in the
Speaker 2: in on Day two. Uh, that's a pretty good room.
Speaker 2: And then maybe you know the a Juju, a Devonte Parker,
Speaker 2: a Taekwon Thornton are still here to fill it out, right,
Speaker 2: you know, fill out the depth chart. Right, that's a
Speaker 2: strong room.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 2: It's not an elite room, but it's definitely better than
Speaker 2: what you have.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: Then you look at the NFL. Yeah, especially if you
Speaker 2: know the Day two guy is.
Speaker 1: Good, especially like you assuming you hit on that guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you're looking at uh the offensive line. I
Speaker 2: have no, I have very little, you know, love it
Speaker 2: anymore for Trent Brown, Like I'm all, I would much
Speaker 2: rather see them go in a different direction than Trent Brown.
Speaker 2: He mentioned He mentioned Jonah Williams. Right, Jonah Williams, I
Speaker 2: think is an intriguing project of like just can he
Speaker 2: bounce back from the injuries and maybe you get that
Speaker 2: first round talent out of him. But I would be
Speaker 2: cool with that as like a bridge to somebody that
Speaker 2: you draft, But you have to have a more concrete
Speaker 2: long term plan than Jonah Williams. Jonah Williams not going
Speaker 2: to be your tackle for the next five years. Maybe
Speaker 2: he's your tackle in twenty twenty four if he can
Speaker 2: stay on the field, but he's not going to be
Speaker 2: your tackle long term. So I'd look at that and
Speaker 2: maybe as like a bridge, kind of like what they
Speaker 2: tried to do with Trent Brown in eighteen. Right, Isaiah
Speaker 2: win Right, I'm am I ready to give up on
Speaker 2: Cole Strange. My biggest problem with Cole Strange right now
Speaker 2: Alex is not necessarily film or what he was putting
Speaker 2: out there. It's durability. There's a chance that he's just
Speaker 2: not maybe too small right to play the interior and
Speaker 2: maybe if you move him the center that helps. Usually
Speaker 2: you can get away with it a little bit more
Speaker 2: at center in terms of size and things like that.
Speaker 2: But something this year he was injury riddle, you know,
Speaker 2: basically didn't have a training camp because of injury, in
Speaker 2: and out of the lineup at times, and then he
Speaker 2: is completely out of the lineup to end the year
Speaker 2: with the knee injury. So I think that durability is
Speaker 2: a big question mark with him. But I do think
Speaker 2: that he was getting better in terms of what he
Speaker 2: was putting on film and city. So I like him
Speaker 2: at right guard. I think that he's a good fit there.
Speaker 2: What I mind flipping him to left guard, know, but
Speaker 2: I still think that out of all of the plan
Speaker 2: that he just laid out, the one thing that I
Speaker 2: would maybe push back on a little bit is that
Speaker 2: they have to have a more premium mass set at
Speaker 2: the tackle position, whether that's the thirty fourth pick in
Speaker 2: the draft, whether that's trading for more established veteran tackle,
Speaker 2: whatever the case may be. I need to have a
Speaker 2: really good plan of how we're going to address left tackle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. You're just you're you're moving a bunch
Speaker 1: of pieces around. You're not really solving anything in the
Speaker 1: plan that he laid out, and I think you want
Speaker 1: to have I'm not saying you're gonna have all five
Speaker 1: spots figured out for the next five years. But you
Speaker 1: want to have you want to come out of the
Speaker 1: offseason with more direction on the offensive line. And again
Speaker 1: what he laid out right now, you have a first
Speaker 1: round pick, bench, you're moving a rookie to his second
Speaker 1: position to two years. Both your tackles are bridge guys.
Speaker 1: You drafted a project player, but they have project players.
Speaker 1: Like what it's different? But is it better?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, that's fair. I think that one of the
Speaker 2: more underrated things about this offseason is offensive line coach.
Speaker 2: Like who they bring in to coach the line is
Speaker 2: such a massive, massive higher for this team right now,
Speaker 2: and I'm hoping that they're going to hit this. They're
Speaker 2: going to do better than the last time. When they
Speaker 2: hire a drink, we'll see. I mean that's gonna be
Speaker 2: a the offensive coordinator. Yeah, yeah, it's a big higher,
Speaker 2: you know. I think offensive line coach coach in terms
Speaker 2: of position coaches like going down from the coordinator level.
Speaker 2: I think offensive line coach is the most important assistant
Speaker 2: coach on your on your entire staff.
Speaker 1: I'd still go quarterbacks coach, but I'll give offensive line coach.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I usually assume the offensive coordinator has
Speaker 2: a big hand in the quarterback, So I lessen some
Speaker 2: of the past.
Speaker 1: If you're for the Patriots, if you're going to have
Speaker 1: a rookie quarterback, that offensive quarterbacks, that quarterbacks coach is
Speaker 1: so important. If you're a team with an established quarterback,
Speaker 1: then yeah, like in a bubble offensive line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a huge deal.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And the last thing there that I wanted to touch
Speaker 2: on what I'm trying to follow all these steps here,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Hunter Henry. I would look to retain Hunter Henry.
Speaker 2: I like his idea of bringing back Hunter Henry and
Speaker 2: Pharaoh Brown and then and then drafting a tight end
Speaker 2: some maybe like you know, on day three at.
Speaker 1: Some part three. I think Hunter Henry is a very
Speaker 1: clear franchise tag can that it would actually be a
Speaker 1: decrease in pay from last year, sets him up as
Speaker 1: a bridge and then you draft his replacement. He also adds,
Speaker 1: you know, veteran leadership to a room that's going to
Speaker 1: have a lot of change.
Speaker 2: There you go, I look at Hunter Henry and I
Speaker 2: look at their tackle spot Alex, and just this is
Speaker 2: what happens when you ignore needs and you keep on
Speaker 2: kicking cans down the road. We've been talking about drafting
Speaker 2: tackle and drafting a developmental tight end to pass the
Speaker 2: torch to really at both spots. But you know, tackle
Speaker 2: hopefully more immediate solve and then tight end. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: have Hunter Henry under contract, you had Jonny Smith under contract,
Speaker 2: you had Mica Sicky whatever. But they never really had
Speaker 2: anybody in the pipeline. And this is a big reason
Speaker 2: why I don't think that that Bill Belichick is here anymore,
Speaker 2: is because they stopped planning ahead for these types of holes.
Speaker 2: We we've been talking so offseason after season.
Speaker 1: If I can just pre characterize that, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's a mix between stopped planning ahead and got behind
Speaker 1: the sticks because of poor asset management, right, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if Isaay works out, they don't need a plan ahead,
Speaker 1: Like it it's a backup. There was a backup of needs.
Speaker 2: But we've been talking about tackle as like a premium
Speaker 2: need on this team, like they need to do something
Speaker 2: big to address this for two or three off seasons.
Speaker 2: Now I want to say.
Speaker 1: It's more than that. I think it's as long as
Speaker 1: me and you've covered the team.
Speaker 2: Since Isaiah Win, I would say for me, since Isaiah
Speaker 2: Win went belly up, right, Like, since we figured out
Speaker 2: like maybe nineteen twenty times, you know, somewhere around there,
Speaker 2: that Isaiah Win was not the answer that that has
Speaker 2: become a real big need for this team. Last year,
Speaker 2: we talked at nauseum about the free agent market at tackle,
Speaker 2: the guys in the draft at tackle, and they did neither,
Speaker 2: like Riley Reeve and con and Calvin Anderson is doing neither.
Speaker 2: Like I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 1: Don't think we talked about either of those guys until
Speaker 1: they were signed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there we were thinking bigger. You know, I
Speaker 2: understand that not all of those guys. You know, PFF
Speaker 2: would tell you that not all of those guys from
Speaker 2: the free agency class last year panned out for their teams.
Speaker 2: Like mcglinchy I think had a pretty roughy year in Denver,
Speaker 2: But like, I don't necessarily put a ton into that
Speaker 2: because that doesn't necessarily mean what they would have done here.
Speaker 2: And it was such a big need that Orlando Brown,
Speaker 2: Juwan Taylor, Mike mcglinchy, Caleb McGarry, like all even an
Speaker 2: Andre Dillard, who I know I also didn't have a
Speaker 2: great year where he was at was a Tennessee. Uh yeah, Tennessee. Yes,
Speaker 2: those guys were just they were better bets than what
Speaker 2: they ended up with, and they cheaped out at it
Speaker 2: because I think they looked at it and said, we're
Speaker 2: paying for C plus talent, which normally I would say
Speaker 2: I would agree with. But I think on the offensive line,
Speaker 2: you can having just like a solid starter at a
Speaker 2: spot is way more valuable than some other places on
Speaker 2: the team. It's way more valuable to just have a
Speaker 2: guy that's not going to completely sink your offense at
Speaker 2: the at a tackle spot. Then let's just say, you know,
Speaker 2: having like a league average receiver. I think that really
Speaker 2: helps you out a ton because it just allows you
Speaker 2: to be a functional offense. That's what offensive line play is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can have a dominant offensive line like the Detroit
Speaker 2: Lions do, and that can be like a tone for
Speaker 2: your team, right, Like that can really set the tone
Speaker 2: of how you are as a football team. But you
Speaker 2: can also just have an offensive line that doesn't screw
Speaker 2: it up. And you have to at least be at
Speaker 2: that baseline. You have to be at the not screw
Speaker 2: it up baseline, and guys like mcglinch, mclinchy guys like
Speaker 2: Orlando Brown, they would have done that for this team.
Speaker 2: They would have been able to be c plus starters,
Speaker 2: if not more than that for this team, and they
Speaker 2: pass on it. So here we are again talking about
Speaker 2: offensive line, and now they have other holes too, and
Speaker 2: the third overall pick in the draft is probably going
Speaker 2: to go to a quarterback. So now we're really talking
Speaker 2: about offensive line at thirty four or at sixty eight
Speaker 2: because the offensive line free agency class, let me tell
Speaker 2: you it is horrible, Alex. It's it's a dark place.
Speaker 2: Like Miken Win, who is the best one and he's
Speaker 2: the guy.
Speaker 1: You're in a half and Trent Brown might be second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Trent Brown might be the second best tackle available
Speaker 2: on the market, Like Tyron Smith is available, but he's
Speaker 2: either going to stay in Dallas or retire, I would think,
Speaker 2: And you know, then you have you're going down and
Speaker 2: guy guys like Jonah Williams who are more like rehabilitation projects.
Speaker 2: So it's a tough it's tough sledding in the tackle
Speaker 2: market right now in free agency. All right, Mark is
Speaker 2: in Connecticut. What's up? Mark?
Speaker 9: Hey?
Speaker 1: Guys?
Speaker 8: How you guys are doing today?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 8: So got a good one here?
Speaker 3: For you.
Speaker 8: So I've been torn between Marvin Harrison Junior or Jaden
Speaker 8: Daniels now for a while, but we're forgetting that there
Speaker 8: is a beast of a tight end in this draft
Speaker 8: who is a generational talent, and that's Rock Powers. And
Speaker 8: we've been needing a tight end for a long time.
Speaker 8: So what about moving back for spot, picking up another
Speaker 8: second round pick or whatever you get for it, and
Speaker 8: you can pick Rock Powers and then in the second
Speaker 8: round you can pick a bow Nicks type of person.
Speaker 8: You can get your tackle, and then on the third
Speaker 8: round you can pick a receiver. I just figured, maybe
Speaker 8: you know, we can get you know, a couple of
Speaker 8: pieces by doing that. I just wanted you guys just
Speaker 8: take on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call, Mark. So, Alex, have you
Speaker 2: heard mel Kiper's name for the nine offensive prospects at
Speaker 2: the top of the draft. I think he's no. I
Speaker 2: think he called them the nifty nine, which I hate.
Speaker 2: We need to do better. We need to do better
Speaker 2: than that. But the point, you know, to Mark's call
Speaker 2: here is that the consensus board that we use right now, Alex,
Speaker 2: the mock Draft database consensus board, it's nine in a
Speaker 2: row offensive players at the top one through nine all offense.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's ultimately so that's the consensus board.
Speaker 1: That's not the consensus mock. I think you're going to
Speaker 1: see nine offensive players unanswered. All right, well, the consensus
Speaker 1: mock has seven offensive players in a row. And then
Speaker 1: Dallas Turner jumps in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I wanted to talk about these guys because
Speaker 2: I've I've now watched all nine of them. So you
Speaker 2: have the three, you have the three quarterbacks, right, have
Speaker 2: Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jayden Daniels, who we've talked about enough.
Speaker 2: You have the three receivers, Marvin Harrison, Junior Malik Neighbors,
Speaker 2: Roma Dunze. And then you have the two tackles. You
Speaker 2: have Joe Alt and Olofashanu, and then you have brock Bowers, right.
Speaker 2: And brock Bowers is the last one that I watched
Speaker 2: because probably the least likely to draft a tight end.
Speaker 2: But you've been talking about brock Bowers for two years,
Speaker 2: which is you know, typical. But he I mean, he's
Speaker 2: he's outrageous, like I don't know how else to describe it,
Speaker 2: Like he's he's terrific. He's as complete of a tight
Speaker 2: end as I've seen in the draft in the last
Speaker 2: four or five years. You know, there are other guys that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, t J. Hawkinson coming out was a really
Speaker 2: good blocker. You know, he probably was as good of
Speaker 2: a point of attack blocker as brock Bowers is. I
Speaker 2: thought Sam Laporter was as good potentially as a receiver,
Speaker 2: but the whole package of being able to block and
Speaker 2: being able to impact the pass game like he does,
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen it. The comp that
Speaker 2: I think is probably pretty fair is George Kittle. I
Speaker 2: think that's exactly how he plays, not exactly the most
Speaker 2: you know, quick twitch at the top of the route
Speaker 2: like Laporte is, like he's not a big change of
Speaker 2: direction guy, but he's extremely explosive up the seam. He's
Speaker 2: really a vertical threat at the position, like he can
Speaker 2: run the scene, he can run the wheel, he can
Speaker 2: run a post crossing route like he can get open
Speaker 2: on the vertical plane. And then he's also got an
Speaker 2: unbelievable ability as a ballcarrier, like really elite, elite yat guy.
Speaker 2: And then you add in the blocking too. That's extremely
Speaker 2: valuable for an offense to have a tight end that's
Speaker 2: that versatile and I have to admit watching him block
Speaker 2: and watching him block with his hand in the dirt,
Speaker 2: it does. It really did like hit home with me
Speaker 2: that I was like, man, you know, this is so valuable.
Speaker 2: You know, not to pick on Hunter Henry or whatever,
Speaker 2: but the Patriots haven't truly had an extra offensive lineman
Speaker 2: type at blocking at the end the line of scrimmage
Speaker 2: since Gronk and that just watching the Georgia offense and
Speaker 2: how valuable he is as a blocking chip, whether it's
Speaker 2: in line, whether it's detached from the formation where he
Speaker 2: can you know, block at the point of attack on
Speaker 2: a screen or jet sweep or something like that. He's
Speaker 2: a rare specimen. But it it just doesn't make a
Speaker 2: ton of sense in terms of the positional value, you know,
Speaker 2: and all that type of stuff. But in terms of talent,
Speaker 2: generational talent, I would say at the position, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, Evan, how many times the last few years the
Speaker 1: top tight end in the draft is always annointed baby Gronk, right,
Speaker 1: and remember last year, But you can't miss Michael Mayor,
Speaker 1: you can't miss Michael Mayor. Excuse me, I was like,
Speaker 1: can't miss Michael Mayor, can't miss Michael mahyor you could,
Speaker 1: you could the whole baby Gronk thing. This is this
Speaker 1: is the eye. And I'm not saying he is gronk.
Speaker 1: Nobody's gronk, but like, if you were going to give
Speaker 1: anybody that title, uh, he is, I would say he's
Speaker 1: the best tight end prospect definitely since Kyle Pitts. Let's
Speaker 1: not forget how elite Pits was. And I don't think
Speaker 1: that was a miss evaluation. I think the Falcons just
Speaker 1: don't know how to use them. Yeah, and I mean
Speaker 1: you go back before him. To find another tight end
Speaker 1: to that that level, you got to go way back,
Speaker 1: like way way. I'm still scrolling here. It's been a while.
Speaker 1: So he's a tremendous player. He's a tremendous all around player.
Speaker 1: I think some of it goes back to what we
Speaker 1: talked about with Harrison. It's just so hard to start
Speaker 1: or rebuild at that position. He's more, you know, that's
Speaker 1: the kind of guy you take when you have a
Speaker 1: high first round pick because you traded for a pick
Speaker 1: or your quarterback was hurt, right Like, you look at
Speaker 1: like a team like the Chargers, that the Chargers, the Bears.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that have a decent roster around, you know,
Speaker 2: already going in the right direction parsonnel wise, and then
Speaker 2: you add brock Bowers next to Keenan Allen next to
Speaker 2: Mike Williams, like that, that becomes a real factor. So,
Speaker 2: Michael Mayer, I'm glad you brought brought those guys up. Like,
Speaker 2: Michael Mayer, to me, the cop was always like a
Speaker 2: hunter Henry. As a receiver, he's a better blocker, but
Speaker 2: I just mean in terms of the receiving uh side
Speaker 2: of things, where he's a really steady receiver, but he
Speaker 2: wasn't an explosive guy, right Like, He's not like a
Speaker 2: big play type of player, whereas like Laporta was more
Speaker 2: of that explosive, big play receiver, but he didn't have
Speaker 2: the blocking chops. So, like to keep it in perspective
Speaker 2: with brock Bowers, I think that he's like a combination
Speaker 2: of the two of those guys, right Like, he is
Speaker 2: a receiver like Laporta, but he's a blocker like Mayor,
Speaker 2: and that is just as a really really rare blocker
Speaker 2: like Washington. It's a really rare well, Donald Washington found out,
Speaker 2: you know, Anthony Jennings told.
Speaker 1: Donald Anthony Jennings this year.
Speaker 2: That's not fair.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, no nobody could block him this year,
Speaker 1: like it wasn't just Darnel Washington. So give Anthony Jennings credit.
Speaker 2: That's fair. But yeah, I I you can't deny, you know,
Speaker 2: watching these guys, you know, through the top of the
Speaker 2: draft here. I feel the same way about Melik Neighbors.
Speaker 2: Like Milik Neighbors is a fantastic prospect too. His ability
Speaker 2: it's not just like that he's fast in a straight line,
Speaker 2: but he's got that ability to gear down, which I love,
Speaker 2: which like you can start at you know, first gear,
Speaker 2: and then as you're running the route, you go from
Speaker 2: one to six right six gear you know in a
Speaker 2: car analogy here like that that allows you to really
Speaker 2: vary speeds and pacing and things like that. That's how
Speaker 2: you create separations. So he's one of those guys that
Speaker 2: Melik Neighbors will like lull you to sleep, low you
Speaker 2: to sleep, and then all of a sudden he turns
Speaker 2: on the jets and nobody can come can come close
Speaker 2: to reaching that type of acceleration and he's just by you.
Speaker 2: And that's a rare, rare talent too, that he pops
Speaker 2: off the film at you with that.
Speaker 1: This is something I've talked about, but now that you've
Speaker 1: watched these guys, I can finally ask you this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how many of these receivers in this class? How deep
Speaker 1: into this class was Uintin Johnson was the first end
Speaker 1: up being the first place in the draft last year?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Wasn't him?
Speaker 9: Or was it z A?
Speaker 1: I can't right? They all went around, Yeah, I all
Speaker 1: went in a row.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to say that that you're
Speaker 2: I'll look it up, but keep going.
Speaker 1: It was JSN is JSN at twenty? How far into
Speaker 1: this class would you rank JSN? So you know I'm
Speaker 1: not a key on Coleman guy, Right, So I would
Speaker 1: just watch Brian Thomas.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched Brian Thomas specifically yet, but I obviously
Speaker 2: saw him with when I was watching Daniels and Neighbors.
Speaker 2: So I've I've watched LSU film and nat see.
Speaker 1: I watched Troy Franklin. But you don't watch Brian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know I watched Troy Franklin because I
Speaker 2: I I I had seen some things on Twitter about
Speaker 2: Troy Franklin and I kind of thought I was gonna
Speaker 2: like him, and I kind of did like him, so
Speaker 2: I wanted I was curious, so I jumped to him.
Speaker 1: You're not curious about Brian Thomas, not.
Speaker 2: As much because I feel like Brian Thomas is in
Speaker 2: like a weird spot of the draft for the Patriots.
Speaker 1: Oh, He's in a great spot in the draft for
Speaker 1: the Patriots. You think I think he's gonna ate first
Speaker 1: early second.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think he's gonna last that long.
Speaker 1: You think he might move on right, fair enough?
Speaker 2: I think he's probably going at the I think he's
Speaker 2: going early twenties at the lowest. Okay, So I would
Speaker 2: say that between the big three, right and Brian Thomas,
Speaker 2: like maybe we would start talking about JSN as like
Speaker 2: wide receiver five in this class?
Speaker 1: Okay, in that category, I think, did you have him
Speaker 1: as wide receiver one last year?
Speaker 2: Was? Yeah? I fower? Yeah.
Speaker 1: So just to just to kind of paint the picture
Speaker 1: I'm saying of this class because I think people believe
Speaker 1: it more when they hear it from you than when
Speaker 1: they hear it from me. So you would have had
Speaker 1: last year's wide receiver one as wide receiver five? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had You want to try to place the other three.
Speaker 2: For me or okay, so Quentin Johnston he would be low.
Speaker 2: I would probably have Quinton Johnston.
Speaker 1: Well, where would you have him compared to Keon Coleman,
Speaker 1: because it's the same kind of player. Ke On Coleman
Speaker 1: is kind of the top version of that player in
Speaker 1: this draft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Keon Coleman, though, has better ball
Speaker 2: skills in Quentin Johnson. That was my biggest knock on
Speaker 2: Quinton Johnson was his hands and his ball skills. Like
Speaker 2: what we saw here in New England. I know it
Speaker 2: was raining and that was like a factor, but that
Speaker 2: was not an anomaly with Quinton Johnson. His hands are horrible.
Speaker 2: He's bad at tracking the ball. He's bad in contested
Speaker 2: catching situations. Kean Coleman also has some not so great
Speaker 2: contested catch numbers, believe it or not, but he has
Speaker 2: some real crazy I mean, as you know, he has
Speaker 2: some crazy highlight catches. So I'd look at oh Man.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can keep going here. Ad Mitchell and
Speaker 1: Xavier ly Guet would be the next two guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would say that. I'd have Quinton Johnson,
Speaker 2: probably right after Ady Mitchell. I think I love Adie Mitchell.
Speaker 2: I think he might be a better player than Quinton
Speaker 2: Johnson because Adie Mitchell the thing that I love about him, well,
Speaker 2: first of all, he catches the ball better, so that
Speaker 2: that's one great great, But second one is his body
Speaker 2: control I think is phenomenal. Whereas like Quentin Johnson was
Speaker 2: more he's an explosive guy, like he can get down
Speaker 2: the field and he can, you know, build up speed.
Speaker 2: But I think Adie Mitchell's body control, hands, ability to
Speaker 2: work the sidelines, like all the details of his game
Speaker 2: I think are better. So I probably have a guy
Speaker 2: like Quentin Johnson as like wide receiver seven or eight
Speaker 2: in this class.
Speaker 1: Right, did you watch Leget yet? I know he'll be
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: No, because he's gonna be at the Senior Bowl, so
Speaker 2: I'll watch him there. Yeah, I think so as well,
Speaker 2: and especially if they're gonna go McVeigh offense, like I'm
Speaker 2: interested and his skill set. The guy that I really
Speaker 2: like out of this next group though, is Jalen Polk.
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Polk would be a really fun receiver
Speaker 2: for them. Can play X, can play a little Z.
Speaker 2: You know, explosive guy, runs really good routes. I really
Speaker 2: like Polk a lot, and I like what.
Speaker 1: Crazy to say, I see a little Jacoby Myers in.
Speaker 2: His game, No, I could see that. I think he's
Speaker 2: a little faster than Jacause, a little.
Speaker 1: More explosive than I don't think he sees the field Obviously,
Speaker 1: Jacoby was a quarterback, so that helps it. But like
Speaker 1: I think in terms of guy that can consistently move
Speaker 1: the chains, yeah, like I just I see him as
Speaker 1: like a reliable chain moving wide receiver. But like you said,
Speaker 1: he's got I think you've referred to him as like
Speaker 1: day two Jacoby, where like he's got a little more
Speaker 1: pop than Jacoby did coming out where there's a little
Speaker 1: bit more of a big play threat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I think is
Speaker 2: his ability to get down the field is a little
Speaker 2: bit better than Jacoby's, right, like the vertical ability. But
Speaker 2: he's a fun player too, And I like Roman Wilson
Speaker 2: from Michigan too. And ye, lad McConkey is going to
Speaker 2: be at the Senior Bowl. We'll see about him. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw some things about him, you know, with Brock
Speaker 2: Bauers film and things like that that I liked. He's
Speaker 2: one of those guys though that he's got like sneaky speed,
Speaker 2: and he's he doesn't have any wasted movement at the
Speaker 2: top of the route, which can be valuable. It's not
Speaker 2: he's not a game changer, I don't think at the position.
Speaker 2: But he's he's really technically sound, which I think is
Speaker 2: helpful as like a wide receiver three type, you know,
Speaker 2: but he's definitely not somebody that I'm saying is like
Speaker 2: a number one guy. Quickly, before we take the rest.
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you to place one more guy, z A. Flowers.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I love Zay.
Speaker 1: I know I will.
Speaker 2: I would say that Zay. I'd probably put him right
Speaker 2: in the area of the two Texas guys. You know,
Speaker 2: he's really similar to Xavier Worthy. You know, they're really
Speaker 2: similar players. I think Xavier Worthy is just a little
Speaker 2: bit bigger than Zay is. Uh So I think that
Speaker 2: helps him.
Speaker 1: Somewhere around like wide receiver six, wide receivers seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably fair.
Speaker 1: So again, just to just to point out what this
Speaker 1: wide receiver class is. All these guys were first round
Speaker 1: picks last year. Ivan has at least three of them
Speaker 1: great his second round picks in this class.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jordan Adison too, Jordan Addison would be would be
Speaker 2: like right in the Texas guys range, right, like, you know,
Speaker 2: early second round type. So yeah, it's it's an incredible class.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: And and that's i think a big part of it
Speaker 2: that we keep on stressing is that you can get
Speaker 2: these receivers pretty much throughout the entire I was a
Speaker 2: top seventy five, top one hundred picks. There's gonna be
Speaker 2: there's gonna be guys that are gonna go in this
Speaker 2: class that are gonna be day one impact players. Like
Speaker 2: that's just how good the class is. Now you have
Speaker 2: to get the right one, which we know the Patriots
Speaker 2: have facts them. Yeah, but in terms of the talent,
Speaker 2: all of them are there for the taking, in terms
Speaker 2: of you know, guys that can come on this team.
Speaker 2: And no, it's I'm not saying that they're gonna be
Speaker 2: a thousand yard receivers right out of the gate, But
Speaker 2: is anybody upset about the season that Pop Douglas just had,
Speaker 2: right Like, you know guys that that can that can
Speaker 2: come in and make an immediate impact. And I think
Speaker 2: that's a big part of it. Quickly, before we take
Speaker 2: the more calls and get into the Senior Bowl. I
Speaker 2: did mention Joe Alton Ola Fashane, So I watched both
Speaker 2: of those guys. Uh, I'm not gonna lie to you,
Speaker 2: Alex Joe Alt just like he does it for me
Speaker 2: like that. That guy is just exactly what when I
Speaker 2: watch tackles in the draft, I want my tackle to
Speaker 2: play exactly like Joel. That guy is going to be
Speaker 2: a ten year NFL franchise cornerstone. I'm telling you that
Speaker 2: right now. And I say that like always with the
Speaker 2: caveat that if injuries come into play, injuries come into play, right,
Speaker 2: he can't predict who's gonna get hurt, right, But if
Speaker 2: he stays healthy and he stays on the field and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, he is going to be
Speaker 2: an impact type of starter. Like when we talk about
Speaker 2: the cliches with tackles, all you draft this guy, you
Speaker 2: plug him in, you don't worry about it for the
Speaker 2: next ten years. I truly feel that way with Joald.
Speaker 2: I think that he's that good. He's athletic, he can
Speaker 2: move his feet, he can get out of his stance well,
Speaker 2: he blocks on the island well and pass protection. He's
Speaker 2: not exactly like a people mover. I wouldn't describe him
Speaker 2: in the run game. But he does finish well. And
Speaker 2: he's a really good positional blocker with his footwork and
Speaker 2: his leverage and things like that. He walls off guys
Speaker 2: like he's more of like a wall off type of
Speaker 2: blocker than a you want turn on the film and
Speaker 2: he's moving guys ten yards off the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2: But that's okay too. He's all around, just great, all around. Like,
Speaker 2: there's not a whole lot of flaws to his game.
Speaker 2: I thought he dominated Ohio State. Uh, and and there
Speaker 2: those head dressers like didn't even flinch. I think the
Speaker 2: one flaw with him on film, uh is that he
Speaker 2: does get bull rushed a little bit sometimes. But I
Speaker 2: think that that's more of like technique than anything.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't. I think that's correctable and you'll you'll, you'll
Speaker 2: figure out a way to fix that with him over
Speaker 2: the course of time.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: He's terrific. I wasn't as I just.
Speaker 1: Real quick, I'd say again to everybody you know, says,
Speaker 1: how could you when we do just when we take
Speaker 1: the quarterback out of it and do just tackle receiver,
Speaker 1: how can you not take Marvin Harrison dreams a generational
Speaker 1: wide receiver prospect. He's that, you know that Joe Alt's that,
Speaker 1: but a tackle. Yeah, I don't know if you would agree,
Speaker 1: but that's how I feel like. I did you hear
Speaker 1: about the hype down down to UH, because I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to point to, uh, Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison's pedigree there Joealt's dad. It was also a great
Speaker 1: NFL player. John Alt was attacked for the Chiefs for
Speaker 1: I think like ten years. Twelve years was a multi
Speaker 1: time All Pro. So, I mean you're literally talking about
Speaker 1: like the same makeup, just you know, say in terms
Speaker 1: of the scouting report, where you know, highly technically skilled,
Speaker 1: great bill, the athletic like all of it, the background,
Speaker 1: the pedigree coming from a big school, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of overlap between all Marvin Harrison junior.
Speaker 2: When you watch offensive lineman, especially guys like that like
Speaker 2: Joe All, first round, top ten type of guys. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when you watch a guy like Joe Alt, I know
Speaker 2: he plays left tackle for Notre Dame, But if I
Speaker 2: didn't know what position he played and who he was
Speaker 2: and what number he wore, I'd still be able to
Speaker 2: point him out right like I'd still be able to
Speaker 2: turn on the film and be like, that's probably the
Speaker 2: guy I'm supposed to be watching, right because he's just
Speaker 2: he's that good, that he stands out above the rest
Speaker 2: of his peers that much. And I think the biggest
Speaker 2: thing with him again is that he's a total He's
Speaker 2: a total package. He can pass block, he can run block.
Speaker 2: He's got size, like, there's no there's no question physically
Speaker 2: with his game, like, he's got length, he's got good
Speaker 2: hand placement, good hand strength, he's got good feet, good
Speaker 2: foot speed.
Speaker 1: Athletics say he's young too, He's only twenty, so he's got,
Speaker 1: you know, still room to grow and fill out.
Speaker 2: I know, look, I know that I'm gonna be the
Speaker 2: only one that's excited if they take him. I know
Speaker 2: that that's all right. I'm willing to be the only one.
Speaker 1: I remember in October somebody called in about a Q
Speaker 1: take I had on another show saying I'd rather have
Speaker 1: Alton Marvin Harrison all confused.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm okay with being the only one. And when
Speaker 2: he comes, when we do the introductory press conference out
Speaker 2: on the field, and then we get to talk to
Speaker 2: him for ten minutes on unfiltered. Usually afterwards, there was
Speaker 2: a running joke. I don't know if we publish like
Speaker 2: the way I was looking at Christian Gonzales last year,
Speaker 2: like a you know, very very pleased person, and I
Speaker 2: would be looking at Joe Walt the same way. I'd
Speaker 2: be like, hell, yes, this is this is exactly what
Speaker 2: they need. Ola Fashan, who's got a lot of things
Speaker 2: going for him as well, I wasn't as impressed. But
Speaker 2: he's he's a specimen, like a physical specimen. Like you
Speaker 2: can see that he's in great shape, and he's built
Speaker 2: very well, long arms, long limbs, you know, barrel chested,
Speaker 2: he's chiseled, he's a he's a he's an athlete, and
Speaker 2: you can tell that right off the bat. I don't
Speaker 2: think he's quite as refined in terms of like his
Speaker 2: hand placement, is usage of his hands, his footwork, you know,
Speaker 2: those types of things as Joe Alt is. But in
Speaker 2: terms of upside, I can understand why some people might
Speaker 2: have him a little bit higher than all just because
Speaker 2: of his athleticism, and you know, he's quick out of
Speaker 2: his stance. He can move in mirror guys and pass
Speaker 2: rough situations. He's really good inside hand to counter right
Speaker 2: when guys try to spin up or move inside on him,
Speaker 2: He's good at that. The Ohio State film was like
Speaker 2: the big one with him that everybody's like, Oh, it's horrible,
Speaker 2: you know. I didn't think it was quite as bad
Speaker 2: as as some people made it out to. But there
Speaker 2: were some reps there certainly that he lost his technique.
Speaker 2: And that's that's the reason why I would have Joe
Speaker 2: Alt ahead of him. I think Joeald consistently gets the
Speaker 2: job done, whereas Uhano has some lapses in technique every
Speaker 2: once in a while.
Speaker 1: Fashana reminds me of we did a lot obviously last
Speaker 1: year on Broderick Jones.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: For Shanda reminds me a lot of a like more
Speaker 1: developed Broderick Jones, like a Top ten Because Broderick Jones
Speaker 1: retired his game was raw. His game was raw, and
Speaker 1: and he hadn't been playing the position as much. For
Speaker 1: Shana was many many more STAPs under his belt in
Speaker 1: the shows, and it should. Yeah, so I kind of
Speaker 1: like a top ten version of the player Broderck Jones was,
Speaker 1: which is a good thing.
Speaker 2: That's a good comp that's a good cop. The the
Speaker 2: Joe Alt comp is tough because of his size, right,
Speaker 2: Like I think he plans you know who it is,
Speaker 2: who is it?
Speaker 1: Joe Thomas.
Speaker 2: He's bigger than Joe Thomas.
Speaker 1: Well, but Joe Thomas was like fifteen years ago. Guys,
Speaker 1: weren't that big fifteen years ago?
Speaker 2: That's fair. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's again at I've said this before. There's a little
Speaker 1: bit of hyperbole here.
Speaker 2: It's not that I have a tough time putting people
Speaker 2: in Joe Thomas's I do too, but that's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're just gonna be you know, the best tackle of
Speaker 2: all time.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a ceiling camp. But when uh,
Speaker 1: when we started doing this, the the alt versus Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison Junior thing that the slightly the kind of mostly
Speaker 1: hyperbolic but not entirely hyperbolic question is starting a team
Speaker 1: you get to add one player at the beginning of
Speaker 1: their career, Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson, who are you adding?
Speaker 2: Well, you you know, I'm going It depends on your
Speaker 2: situation though, right, like starting team, starting a team from scratch, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1: Starting an offense from scratch, because that's more or less
Speaker 1: what the Patriots are doing.
Speaker 2: I'm going Joe Thomas.
Speaker 1: You know that right there?
Speaker 9: You go like I.
Speaker 1: And what's great about it is when people say, oh,
Speaker 1: you're signing attack, you're adding a tackle. What does a
Speaker 1: tackle do? Or oh you're adding a receiver, what does
Speaker 1: a receiver do? Neither of those guys won anything, which
Speaker 1: is why the argument always comes back to quarterback.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get back into the calls here. Miko
Speaker 2: is in Philly. What's up, Miko?
Speaker 6: Hey, So, going back to the coaching side, back when
Speaker 6: we were exploring if Celtic was to day, I think
Speaker 6: one of the conditions we talked about was essentially appointing
Speaker 6: Phil O'Brien as the head coach of the offense with
Speaker 6: a lot of sway over personnel decisions. So fast forward
Speaker 6: to now, with Mayo coming from the defensive side of
Speaker 6: the ball, is that head coach of the offense responsibility
Speaker 6: build a pitch to offensive coordinator or candidates with far
Speaker 6: less experience than Bill O'Brian like Hayley or Robinson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for the call of Mika. I'm sorry about
Speaker 2: the phone line. That's not you, that's us. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's a fair point. Alex, you know, are you going
Speaker 2: to trust a first time offensive coordinator to start making
Speaker 2: personnel decisions and things like that. More than a fair point.
Speaker 1: I think that was more when we talked about that,
Speaker 1: that was more something that candidates were pitching to the Patriots, yeah,
Speaker 1: than than the Patriots. The pitcher can't. It's a candidate
Speaker 1: coming in and saying, hey, look I have this experience. See,
Speaker 1: it wasn't so much the Patriot saying here's this opportunity
Speaker 1: for you. It was an experienced Canada coming in and saying,
Speaker 1: this is what I add that some of these younger guys,
Speaker 1: some of these inexperienced guys don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that that's when they start getting into
Speaker 2: the in person because Drod Mayo is on EI the
Speaker 2: other day and he mentioned, you know, first virtual interviews.
Speaker 2: First round is just kind of like your standard boiler
Speaker 2: played interview, getting to know the guy, you know, getting
Speaker 2: to know his background, things like that.
Speaker 1: You see yourself in five years.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The second round, when they get them here in
Speaker 2: person is when you start putting them up on the whiteboard, right, Like,
Speaker 2: that's when you start to really get into the x's
Speaker 2: and o's and how it would look if I'm the Patriots. Like,
Speaker 2: I'm telling these guys to come in with with their
Speaker 2: homework done, and I'm saying Drake May, Jade and Daniels,
Speaker 2: and maybe I throw just like a Penix or Nicks
Speaker 2: at them too, just to you know, say, cover all
Speaker 2: of our bases of how this could go right?
Speaker 1: Right, Day two guy, your favorite Day two guys, how.
Speaker 2: What's your plan? Right? Like, what if we draft Jaden
Speaker 2: Daniels in April, what's the offense going to look like?
Speaker 2: If we draft Drake May and April, what the offense
Speaker 2: gonna look like? That's how I would pick their brains.
Speaker 2: That's how I would go about it. And you gotta
Speaker 2: like their pitch, right, you gotta like what they're gonna
Speaker 2: do with it. And then maybe if you do and
Speaker 2: you like you say, oh wow, like that he's really
Speaker 2: you know, Jade and Daniels, that's a perfect We love
Speaker 2: that idea, right, like we love all these ideas. We
Speaker 2: love what he's thinking, all that kind of stuff. Then
Speaker 2: you can sort of get into the report of like, well, okay,
Speaker 2: well why do you like Jaden Daniels versus Drake May
Speaker 2: versus whoever?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: So I agree, I think that you have to be
Speaker 2: careful about giving too much personnel power to an inexperienced coordinator.
Speaker 2: D C is in New Hampshire. What's up these up?
Speaker 2: We left him on hole too long? I thought that
Speaker 2: might happen. Alex is in Atlanta. What's up, Alex?
Speaker 1: How you doing?
Speaker 3: Can you?
Speaker 2: Yes? Go ahead?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Oh well anyway, our first thing I want to say, Man,
Speaker 9: y'all do amazing job. So thank you' all for that. Man,
Speaker 9: it's all season so far. You know, I'm loving it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I just kind of I just kind of got
Speaker 9: got on. I don't know if y'all have talked about it,
Speaker 9: but it's a receiver that I like, honestly, ke On Coleman.
Speaker 9: I don't know how y'all feel about them. Like I
Speaker 9: said again, I just joined in, But how do y'all
Speaker 9: feel about him? And that's that's that's the only question
Speaker 9: I had. But thank y'all so much.
Speaker 2: Thanks Alex, thanks for the call. So I'm not a
Speaker 2: big key on Coleman guy, but I will admit that
Speaker 2: maybe my mind is a little bit, a little bit
Speaker 2: scarred by Nikhil Harry Alex Right, Like I I when
Speaker 2: I look at receivers, that don't separate well at the
Speaker 2: top of the route, and a lot of the highlights
Speaker 2: that I see of them, And obviously highlights is not everything,
Speaker 2: like you need to watch the actual film, but highlights
Speaker 2: I think are are sometimes can be important, especially with receivers.
Speaker 2: It's the one time where I would say that I
Speaker 2: do actually watch some highlight reels of guys, because you
Speaker 2: want to see how they win, right, Like what are
Speaker 2: like the big plays that they make and how do
Speaker 2: they make them? And when you see a lot of
Speaker 2: the highlights of Keon Coleman, it's like these one handed catches.
Speaker 2: He's acrobatic catches just great, but it's not a whole
Speaker 2: lot of like he wins at the top of the route,
Speaker 2: runs away from the coverage and he's off right, Like
Speaker 2: you don't see a ton of that. And his statistically,
Speaker 2: his profile is not very good. He didn't actually produce
Speaker 2: all that much in last year, right, I think he
Speaker 2: had like six hundred seven hundred yards receiving.
Speaker 1: And uh, his contention, he's a red zone guy.
Speaker 2: His contested catch numbers though he's only catching like thirty
Speaker 2: three thirty four percent of his contested targets, Like for uh,
Speaker 2: comparison's sake, Roma Dunsay, want to guess how many of
Speaker 2: his contested cards.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's that's got to be up over like sixty sixty.
Speaker 2: Five percent, seventy five percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude's awesome.
Speaker 2: Romadud throwing a jump out of rum Madunzay, you have
Speaker 2: a seventy five percent chance of him catching the ball.
Speaker 1: You know why because his catch radius is that is.
Speaker 2: That is absurd, absolutely absurd. So I I look at
Speaker 2: Keon Coleman, and I have a little bit of cold feet.
Speaker 2: How about you?
Speaker 1: I mean I like Keon Coleman definitely more than you.
Speaker 1: I think there's a ton of value in that skill set.
Speaker 1: I think for the Patriots, you're probably well, I guess
Speaker 1: what offensive system are you running? I'm so in the
Speaker 1: default of like, they need more speed in athleticism, and
Speaker 1: that's not where Coleman wins. But if they're gonna do
Speaker 1: the McVeigh thing where they need these big physical receivers,
Speaker 1: that's a fair ke Coleman's going to be the guy
Speaker 1: you talk about. Now. I wouldn't be afraid if that's
Speaker 1: the kind of receiver you want, you want to use
Speaker 1: that pick elsewhere you go A little further down the board,
Speaker 1: you look at his teammate Johnny Wilson. Johnny Wilson six ' seven,
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty five pounds and was reportedly running
Speaker 1: four for US in high school. If he does that
Speaker 1: at the combine, I mean, this guy's basically remember Zach
Speaker 1: Kunz last year. Cons That's that's kind of what you're
Speaker 1: looking at with Johnny Wilson. If he's really six seven,
Speaker 1: two thirty five and running four to four, it becomes
Speaker 1: Dwan Jones Jarik wooland it's he's gonna be my guy
Speaker 1: this year. That it's it's gonna look too good to
Speaker 1: be true, but it is. Now. Johnny Wilson's hands aren't great,
Speaker 1: and this is you're probably gonna camp him to Quentin Johnston. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if you can get if you get a good
Speaker 1: wide receivers coach who can work on him with that.
Speaker 1: And the thing about Johnny Wilson, his hands are actually
Speaker 1: really good and contested catch situations. It's just when he's open.
Speaker 1: So as much as that sounds annoying, it's also more fixable.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's gonna solve all your wide receiver problems,
Speaker 1: you know, just like that, you'd still need to go
Speaker 1: out and get Michael Pittman or somebody. But if you
Speaker 1: want to invest in a project, guy uh late on
Speaker 1: day two and you want that kind of jump ball
Speaker 1: physical specimen, great size, wide receiver. I think Johnny Wilson's
Speaker 1: upside is tremendous. Now his floor is not quite what
Speaker 1: it is with some other guys, and that's a risk
Speaker 1: that's going to scare people off, and I understand that.
Speaker 1: But his his ceiling is unreal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: I think he'll be I think he's at the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: I believe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that. You know, I need to give
Speaker 2: Keon Coleman another watch because I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people do really like him, and I just I'm gonna
Speaker 2: there's certain guys that I just think of Patriot Bus
Speaker 2: in the past, right, Like you know, I've talked about
Speaker 2: this with the quarterbacks ales, Like every time I watch
Speaker 2: a quarterback now, I'm like, why is he not Mac Jones?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 2: Like what about him is just different from Mac that
Speaker 2: I can be like, all right, this is not gonna
Speaker 2: go horribly wrong this time around. And I feel the
Speaker 2: same way about guy like Kean Coleman to Nikhil Harry
Speaker 2: to some of their other you know misses, and that
Speaker 2: that type of mold in the past. All Right, Nate
Speaker 2: is in Ohio. What's up, Nate? Nate? Nate going once?
Speaker 2: All right, Nate, you can call back and we'll get
Speaker 2: you on the air. Matt is in Virginia. What's up, Matt?
Speaker 7: Hey, guys, the.
Speaker 3: First time caller, longtime listener. I've been listening since the
Speaker 3: early Beat days, and I gotta say I love, love,
Speaker 3: love your content.
Speaker 2: Thanks, thank you, appreciate that you guys.
Speaker 3: Had mentioned earlier maybe looking into the tackle trade market,
Speaker 3: maybe getting yourself a veteran. What kind of options would
Speaker 3: you say would be out there for the Patriots realistically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question, Matt. I'll admit I haven't
Speaker 2: Thanks for the call. I haven't dug deep into like
Speaker 2: the veteran market so much yet, Alex. But I feel
Speaker 2: like there's always there's always guys that come out of
Speaker 2: the woodwork. Do you have anybody on your mind? There's
Speaker 2: one that I have, but I want to make sure
Speaker 2: I get the situation right.
Speaker 1: I honestly think the trademark is more going with the
Speaker 1: wide receiver, just because there's such a tackle shortage on tackles,
Speaker 1: getting anybody that's worth trading for is going to be
Speaker 1: just monumentally expensive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so our our guy, Dwan Jones is uh so
Speaker 2: think no, no, no, I don't think that he's going
Speaker 2: to be available. He went to the Browns, right, am,
Speaker 2: I like spacing here for some reason he did.
Speaker 1: He's if he's not on the rust. I think he
Speaker 1: got put on IR late in the year.
Speaker 2: So Dewan Jones goes to the Browns and the Browns
Speaker 2: have two Yeah, yeah, I got this right. I don't
Speaker 2: know why.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, he's definitely on the Browns.
Speaker 4: No, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: But Jack Conklin on the Browns their right tackle, veteran
Speaker 2: right tackle, good player in the league. So they have
Speaker 2: Jedrick Willis, who's they're starting left tackle, is one of
Speaker 2: the best in the league right, so he's gonna stay
Speaker 2: over there. Dwan Jones is probably in line to take
Speaker 2: over for Jack Conklin at right tackle right going into
Speaker 2: next year. That that could be a situation where Jack
Speaker 2: Conklin is like a you know, a lamb duck type
Speaker 2: of asset. You know, it's just somebody that is somebody
Speaker 2: that they don't need to pay anymore. So if I
Speaker 2: there's one guy that I would look at in terms
Speaker 2: of being available in the veteran market at tackle, it
Speaker 2: would be called in Cleveland because Cleveland has embarrassment of
Speaker 2: riches on the offensive line and they have one of
Speaker 2: the best offensive line coaches in football. I don't know
Speaker 2: if he's going to follow his son to Tennessee, but
Speaker 2: Bill Callahan coaches their offensive line. Who's Brian Callahan's father,
Speaker 2: So there's a chance that he might follow his you know,
Speaker 2: go go coach the line for his son. We'll see.
Speaker 2: But I would call the Browns. They have like sixteen tackles,
Speaker 2: you know, they one of those guys might be available.
Speaker 2: Maybe a guy like Conklin.
Speaker 1: All right, he's got a pretty minute I'm just looking
Speaker 1: at now. He's got a pretty manageable contract too. He's
Speaker 1: signed through twenty six. Cap hit this year would be
Speaker 1: twelve million, jumps up to nineteen the next two, and
Speaker 1: then he's got two void years on the end of
Speaker 1: his deal. But they're pretty they're pretty minimal.
Speaker 2: I know, you know, the Browns because mostly because of
Speaker 2: the Deshaun Watson contract, the Browns are have an extremely
Speaker 2: high payroll, like they're one of the highest in terms
Speaker 2: of actual you know, the Felger right, the real cash spending,
Speaker 2: and they might be looking to make some cuts, you know,
Speaker 2: the guys that they don't necessarily need, like a Jack Conklin.
Speaker 2: It could become available. All right, before we get into
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl, which we are going to do for
Speaker 2: the next thirty twenty to thirty minutes here to end
Speaker 2: the show, I really quickly want to talk about Kellen
Speaker 2: Moore and you know, the big news in the football
Speaker 2: where the last twenty four hours was Jim Harbaugh right
Speaker 2: going to the Chargers. Jim Harbaugh is more than likely
Speaker 2: going to have his own staff, and Jim Harbor's an
Speaker 2: offensive guy. He's a quarterback guy, but he's most likely
Speaker 2: going to have his own offensive staff. And the Browns
Speaker 2: have put in a request now to interview Kellen Moore
Speaker 2: Alex for their offensive coordinator position, and he got blocked.
Speaker 2: There's another team that wanted to interview him earlier in
Speaker 2: the process and the Chargers hadn't settled on a head
Speaker 2: coach yet, so they blocked the interview. But now it
Speaker 2: sounds like they're going to allow Kellen Moore to start
Speaker 2: interviewing places. I put out last night on Twitter that
Speaker 2: my mind immediately goes to Kellen Moore and what is
Speaker 2: going to happen with him? When Jim Harbaugh's news was announced,
Speaker 2: and I got all sorts of push back on Twitter,
Speaker 2: Why would you want Kellen Moore? Why would you want
Speaker 2: Kellen Moore? Alex? Would you want Kellen Moore? Yes or no?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't know that he'd be my top choice,
Speaker 1: but I mean I'd be very happy if they hired him.
Speaker 1: He'd definitely be up there for me. I think he
Speaker 1: I like the offenses he designs. I think they're very layered.
Speaker 1: I think that they're not easy to defend. And I
Speaker 1: think he has a good understanding the quarterback position. And
Speaker 1: I think that he does a good job working with quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: So those are two massive boxes that are checked. I also,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like in my mind he'd be a
Speaker 1: flight risk because I think he's somebody who should be
Speaker 1: close close to being a head coach, But it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like the league feels that way. Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: mean he'll get his chance. If he comes here and
Speaker 1: he's good, he'll get his chance, but maybe get two
Speaker 1: years with him instead of one or something like that, right,
Speaker 1: if it works out so and then obviously there's the
Speaker 1: element of if they draft Michael Pennix, which I don't
Speaker 1: think they will, but lefty quarterback because Moore was a
Speaker 1: lefty played in the league for a lefty quarterback. But no,
Speaker 1: I've always liked Kellen Moore. I think he's, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the more understated offensive minds in the game,
Speaker 1: and they would I think his offenses would be fun
Speaker 1: to watch. And I think if you get the right
Speaker 1: pieces in place, I mean I think, I know, we've
Speaker 1: seen it, they can be effective. I know he never
Speaker 1: really won anything in terms of the postseason, but look
Speaker 1: who he was working for, right, I think if you
Speaker 1: you give him a defense like he'd have here and
Speaker 1: that that changes a lot of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because when the Charters came here, I
Speaker 2: had written in my game preview that I had an
Speaker 2: eye on Kellen Moore because if the Patriots are actually
Speaker 2: I had my eye on him as potentially a head
Speaker 2: coach candidate. Right, like crazy, how far we've come. But
Speaker 2: I feel like with Kellen Moore, the thing that I
Speaker 2: that I really liked. You know about his offense is
Speaker 2: that it is West Coast based. You know, he comes
Speaker 2: from the Mike McCarthy tree, and and you know he
Speaker 2: does some some West Coast things, but it's pretty multiple
Speaker 2: game to game, like, he's a pretty good game plan coach,
Speaker 2: and there's always some wrinkles in there, not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Like you got to remember what his background is as
Speaker 1: a player coming from Boise State, right, I think he
Speaker 1: incorporates he blends the two very well. Which when I
Speaker 1: say it's multiple, like, there's not a ton of things
Speaker 1: in the big picture over the course was season that
Speaker 1: you just can kind of sit on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I look at him and, uh, he does
Speaker 2: have some tricks up asleep, But I I more look
Speaker 2: at his his base offense as a pretty stable and
Speaker 2: consistent and like, you know, just schematically sound type of offense.
Speaker 2: Is it as innovative and as creative as like a
Speaker 2: McVeigh Shanahan. No, it's definitely more in the in the Patriot,
Speaker 2: you know, ep old school West Coast type of system
Speaker 2: that's more about formations and matchups and fundamentals and like
Speaker 2: that type of stuff. But I I do like a
Speaker 2: lot of the things that that he brings to the table.
Speaker 2: And he's a quarterback guy, which I like, right and
Speaker 2: uh and and you know young quarterback guy that that
Speaker 2: can do it. And the last thing that I that
Speaker 2: I like about him, as you can imagine, the reason
Speaker 2: why the Cowboys parted ways with him, was because he
Speaker 2: wanted to score too many points.
Speaker 1: Remember that he wants to set The Cowboys are the charger,
Speaker 1: the chargers. It was a cowboy fired, fired because they
Speaker 1: didn't want to run the ball enough.
Speaker 2: That was Kellen Moore's So Kellen Moore with the Cowboys,
Speaker 2: Mike McCarthy's whole thing was he wants to light up
Speaker 2: the scoreboard and I want to rest my defense, right
Speaker 2: like that? That was that was the whole thing was
Speaker 2: that Kellen Moore just wanted to throw the ball forty
Speaker 2: times a game. I'm not saying you have to have
Speaker 2: some sort of balance, right, we know that, right, But
Speaker 2: I like the idea. You know, I like his mindset.
Speaker 2: I think Kellen Moore has like an attack mindset that
Speaker 2: he wants. He wants to have an offense that's gonna
Speaker 2: score a lot of points. And lastly, on this topic,
Speaker 2: you know that I've thought that the Chargers roster talent
Speaker 2: has been overrated for a couple of years now, and
Speaker 2: I still feel that way. I'm not trying to absolve
Speaker 2: him of all things, Like I know that their offense
Speaker 2: wasn't great last year.
Speaker 1: You just don't want to criticize your boy, Brandon Staley.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I just really don't. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people look at the Chargers roster and they
Speaker 2: only look at the top of the roster, right, They're
Speaker 2: only looking at Justin Herbert Keenan Allen. You know some
Speaker 2: of the guys that they have on the defensive side
Speaker 2: of the ball, you know, Derwin James Khalil Mack, you
Speaker 2: know those types of guys. Their their rosters has had
Speaker 2: a lot of deficiencies over the last couple of years
Speaker 2: that people just want to ignore. And I think Tom
Speaker 2: Tellesco getting fired as the general manager. A big reason
Speaker 2: why is because the people there are recognizing it. You know,
Speaker 2: the span has to see it. They have some good pieces,
Speaker 2: They have some really high end talent. You know, Rashaun
Speaker 2: Slater is a really good tackle, but they they don't
Speaker 2: have a lot of depth to their roster. And and
Speaker 2: you saw that this year when they started to have
Speaker 2: some injuries on the offense side of the ball. You know,
Speaker 2: Mike Williams goes down, their offense falls, you know, falls
Speaker 2: off a little bit. Austin Ecker doesn't have the same
Speaker 2: year because of injuries and things like that. Their offense
Speaker 2: takes another step back and they didn't really have any
Speaker 2: depth to supplement it. So I think some of the
Speaker 2: reason why Kellen Moore wasn't quite as successful with the
Speaker 2: Chargers isn't all on Kellen Moore. That's just my point.
Speaker 2: But is he my top candidate, No, absolutely not. But
Speaker 2: he's somebody that I would definitely be interest said if
Speaker 2: I'm the Patriots and and hearing out and having an
Speaker 2: interview with and seeing seeing what his pitch is before
Speaker 2: I you know, make a higher Senior Bowl ready, Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is your moment, all right. So Senior Bowl preview
Speaker 2: will end it here, end of the show here, I'm
Speaker 2: going to go down to the Senior Bowl. Unfortunately I'm
Speaker 2: going solo Alex. I'm very upset about that still, but
Speaker 2: it is what it is. So we'll be doing the
Speaker 2: show next week with me and Mobile and Alex will
Speaker 2: be here and you know, all these guys so well, anyway, Alex,
Speaker 2: I'll just tell you who's popping and who's standing out
Speaker 2: to me, and we'll go from there the next week.
Speaker 2: But I have a watch list. I'm sure you have
Speaker 2: a watch list. I want to start with the quarterbacks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's three guys that I know. You have a couple more,
Speaker 2: maybe going deeper than me, but three guys obviously, Well,
Speaker 2: there's there's three big ones. I think Michael Pennix is
Speaker 2: obvious and obvious. Bo Nix is an obvious I am.
Speaker 2: I am I allowed to be intrigued by Michael.
Speaker 1: Pratt from a Patriots point of view or just in
Speaker 1: general in general.
Speaker 2: But also let me let me give you this pitch.
Speaker 1: Well, look, I'm the guy that gets madd You don't
Speaker 1: let me talk about runningack se'n be intrigued about anybody.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, let me give you this pitch about Michael Pratt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a chance?
Speaker 2: And I hate to like type cast everybody, right, but
Speaker 2: your stereotype everybody should say, but is there a chance
Speaker 2: that Michael Pratt is like the Kirk cousins to an
Speaker 2: RG three?
Speaker 1: Oh see, I think that's somebody else. I actually had
Speaker 1: the exact same take about somebody else.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think.
Speaker 1: Michael Pratt is more this draft's Bailey's abbey.
Speaker 2: Oh really, that's disappointed.
Speaker 1: Like I just see him as like I just see
Speaker 1: him as like a you know, I think he could
Speaker 1: be an NFL starter. I just don't see where the
Speaker 1: ceiling is. He's older, he doesn't have you know, that
Speaker 1: elite mobility, that elite arm talent. Like he's he's a good, solid,
Speaker 1: technically sound quarterback. I just don't know what I'm latching
Speaker 1: on to where it's like, hey, this guy is gonna be,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, a starter on his rookie contract,
Speaker 1: like a franchise starter on his rookie contract.
Speaker 2: That's fair. I do wonder what he weighs in at
Speaker 2: and like what he means. Actually, so he's a little
Speaker 2: bit bigger than Bailey Zappy right.
Speaker 1: Let me he is, let me rephrat He could be
Speaker 1: the Kirk Cousins in the sense that if you draft
Speaker 1: one quarterback and you want another guy, because Kirk Cousins
Speaker 1: drafted to be the backup, right, that would make a
Speaker 1: lot of sense because I think he has an ability
Speaker 1: to at the very least be a high level backup,
Speaker 1: if not a low level starter in the NFL.
Speaker 2: I'm just intrigued by some of the things that I,
Speaker 2: you know, saw I don't have a ton of two
Speaker 2: lane all twenty two, I will admit, but I'm trying
Speaker 2: to get more and we'll see what the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: I think he throws a really good touch and accuracy, right,
Speaker 2: which is just at.
Speaker 1: The end when he's when it's clean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, but at the end of the day
Speaker 2: that that still matters, you know, Like I feel like
Speaker 2: we're getting so lost in his quarterback discourse about arm
Speaker 2: talent and off platform and extended playoff script, moving you know,
Speaker 2: around and throwing like Patrick Mahomes, Like we're getting so
Speaker 2: into that that we're losing sight of the fact that
Speaker 2: the thing that matters the most still from quarterback play
Speaker 2: is can you sit in the pocket and can you
Speaker 2: deliver on time with accuracy? And Michael Pratt I think
Speaker 2: can do that.
Speaker 1: He's very good at that. My my thing with him is,
Speaker 1: and this is more for the Patriots than just in general,
Speaker 1: when that's not there, he doesn't really have an ability
Speaker 1: to create something from nothing. Yeah, And that's what I
Speaker 1: worry about with him.
Speaker 2: Fair enough Big week, I think for Pennix.
Speaker 1: Big week, huge week, huge week in a number of ways.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's gotta throw the ball well, kind of
Speaker 1: offset some of the you know, the tape from the
Speaker 1: National Championship. He'll probably get some medical testing done.
Speaker 2: Talk to teams, yeah, talk to teams.
Speaker 1: Just a big, big, big week for him.
Speaker 2: I hope he practices at least one day, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he will. He probably has as much
Speaker 1: variance as any quarterback. Jenji mccartheen's. Yeah, he has as
Speaker 1: much variance as any quarterbacks at the Senior Bowl. Put
Speaker 1: it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that he's He's definitely gonna be intriguing.
Speaker 2: What I'm looking for with him is it when we
Speaker 2: watch him, you see the ball kind of just really like,
Speaker 2: you know, pop out of his hand, right, He's got
Speaker 2: that like instant velocity out of his hand, which we
Speaker 2: all really like. I think that that's something that is
Speaker 2: really important to see in person, though, like I think
Speaker 2: you can barely see that tangibly in person, Like how
Speaker 2: much velocity, how much arm talent does he really have
Speaker 2: on the football. We're not necessarily going to see him
Speaker 2: under pressure because he's gonna be in a red Jersey
Speaker 2: and he's not going to be facing pressure like that
Speaker 2: he was in the National Championship game. But you can see,
Speaker 2: you know, is the vlo legit? Like, is that ability
Speaker 2: to generate velocity with the ball coming out of his hand? Legit?
Speaker 2: This is a game and a practice where other quarterbacks
Speaker 2: have really separated themselves, like Justin Herbert's like the biggest
Speaker 2: one I can remember over the last couple of years
Speaker 2: where he went to the Senior Bowl and he was
Speaker 2: just a dude and it was different than everybody else.
Speaker 2: His gravitas, his his talent, all of it, and then
Speaker 2: that locked him in as like a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: I don't think Pennix is gonna get locked in as
Speaker 2: a top ten pick just because of the injuries, but
Speaker 2: he can lock himself in as like an end of
Speaker 2: the first round guy, or you know, wherever the league
Speaker 2: has him right now. Maybe we'll find out.
Speaker 1: Some of that too, if anybody, though, I think Pratt
Speaker 1: is the guy that is. You know, the way these
Speaker 1: practices are structured, it's set up for him to shine.
Speaker 1: You want to talk about velocity and arm strength though,
Speaker 1: oh god, all right, get.
Speaker 2: To my guy, okay, but really, really quickly before we do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: anything from Bonnicks, Like is Bonick's gonna do anything for
Speaker 2: you in this week? Like if I call in on
Speaker 2: Wednesday and then we're doing the show and I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: like Bonnix is just tearing up practice, Like does that
Speaker 2: move the needle at all for you?
Speaker 1: You know, if he's really focusing vertically, if he's like
Speaker 1: really showing a vertical game, then I'll be all right
Speaker 1: because like we we know he can hit those you know,
Speaker 1: get to the back foot, get the ball out on
Speaker 1: those short and intermediate throws and put it right on
Speaker 1: a dine like that's been his game and you know
Speaker 1: seven on seven structuring kind of Uh, it's it's a
Speaker 1: good setting for that. If he's testing windows, if he's
Speaker 1: splitting the ball in between zones down the field, if
Speaker 1: he's throwing jump balls down the field and he's hitting them,
Speaker 1: and it's like, all right, here's something he hasn't had.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think he certainly has something to prove.
Speaker 1: But I think he's he's sixty one starts on his bell, Yeah,
Speaker 1: sixty one college starts. So if you don't know, then
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't know, by we I would
Speaker 1: be surprised. This sounds kind of weird. I would be
Speaker 1: surprised if bo Nick surprises us, just because we have
Speaker 1: so much tape on him.
Speaker 2: The only thing I would look at from bow Nicks.
Speaker 2: And I don't know how much I'm going to be
Speaker 2: able to like tangibly know this, but maybe just talking
Speaker 2: to some people down there, like what's he like? You know,
Speaker 2: like is he I think one thing about Mac and
Speaker 2: like we're film junkies. We're guys that watch the tape
Speaker 2: and really study these guys in terms of their football ability.
Speaker 2: But I think it has been a factor around here,
Speaker 2: just personality, you know, his confidence and all that kind
Speaker 2: of like does does Bonix carry himself with some swagger?
Speaker 2: Like That's what I look.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting Nicks's background, So his dad it's like
Speaker 1: an Auburn legend, yeah, playing quarterback, and then he grew
Speaker 1: up an Auburn fan. He went to Auburn and it
Speaker 1: didn't go well, and it wasn't entirely his fault, but
Speaker 1: he talked about after he left the pressure of being
Speaker 1: there and how miserable it was to like the pressure
Speaker 1: he put it because he wasn't he wasn't doing it
Speaker 1: for himself. He there's a there's a great piece for
Speaker 1: Marty Smith ESPN that like he was doing it for Auburn,
Speaker 1: not for bo and then he goes to Oregon. You
Speaker 1: know at this so he was a five star recruit,
Speaker 1: son of a campus legend, starts a true freshman. He
Speaker 1: was supposed to revive the Auburn program. He was supposed
Speaker 1: to deliver Auburn a national championship. That was like his
Speaker 1: destiny essentially to for I don't mean to sounds so dramatic,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of the chosen one. Yeah, flames out,
Speaker 1: he goes to undrafted, failed the school, has to transfer,
Speaker 1: goes to Oregon now there's no pressure, and tears it up, so,
Speaker 1: you know, and he again, if you watch this piece
Speaker 1: on ESPN, I'll send it to you so you can
Speaker 1: watch before you get down there, because I think it
Speaker 1: does painted, you know, a brief but good picture of
Speaker 1: who he is. I think he has a very good
Speaker 1: understanding of his standing and of his journey. And I
Speaker 1: think he's willing to be changed by his journey. And
Speaker 1: I don't think that's something I don't think everybody in
Speaker 1: a position like his. Uh, you can say that.
Speaker 2: About Bnix is a tough one for me because of
Speaker 2: the Auburn stuff. I can unsee it sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: like I just part of the part of it. I
Speaker 2: know how bad he was at Auburn, very Jared stid
Speaker 2: of me, right, like just just not not consistent, not
Speaker 2: good enough.
Speaker 1: All right. The thing is, I think if you, I
Speaker 1: think bo Nicks would also tell you that, which I
Speaker 1: think is part of what makes him a little different. Okay,
Speaker 1: not saying that means draft.
Speaker 2: Him, but all right, tell us about Bazuka Joe.
Speaker 1: All right, So Joe Milton is the most entertaining quarterback
Speaker 1: in this draft. That doesn't mean best.
Speaker 2: Daniels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's six six, two thirty six. He can
Speaker 1: throw the ball sixty yards just with his top half.
Speaker 1: Now he sprays it. His accuracy is not great, and
Speaker 1: he's great as a scrambler. He's not great as a
Speaker 1: designed runner. But you talk about again, you can't. I'm
Speaker 1: excited for you to see him throw the football, and
Speaker 1: I'm sending you some clips last night. It doesn't really
Speaker 1: make sense. You watch some of his throws and you
Speaker 1: see his mechanics and then you see how far the
Speaker 1: ball goes and there's nothing else like that. Now he's
Speaker 1: obviously got to learn to rein it in. But when
Speaker 1: you talk about arm strength, size, and mobility, he checks
Speaker 1: all the boxes that you usually look for in the
Speaker 1: first round. Yeah, but he's older, His accuracy isn't there.
Speaker 1: He doesn't make good decisions.
Speaker 2: Other than that.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Somebody's gonna somebody's gonna see him
Speaker 1: like early on day three and say I can get
Speaker 1: the most out of his kid. Yeah, somebody's gonna see
Speaker 1: him early on day three and just look at the potential.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if he's the guy that you draft
Speaker 1: a quarterback. And it's funny because I think just on
Speaker 1: skill set, on an ability, he's somewhere between Drake May
Speaker 1: and Jane Daniels. So you could draft either of those guys,
Speaker 1: take Joe Milton in the fourth or fifth round and
Speaker 1: kind of develop them together. And where Joe Milton really
Speaker 1: interests me is almost as a package player. He can
Speaker 1: be or Hail Mary thrower. He'd be an excellent push
Speaker 1: push quarterback. He can do some things running the ball,
Speaker 1: Like you could put him in in spots and utilize
Speaker 1: him in spots where you could take advantage of the
Speaker 1: rare talents he has will maybe masking some of that
Speaker 1: other stuff. So I'm just really interested to see I
Speaker 1: wish I could could see him in person. He fascinates me.
Speaker 1: And again I'm not saying draft them, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: make them the start, I'm not saying he's great, but
Speaker 1: just his entire makeup is so unique, right, I talk
Speaker 1: about this every year. That excuse me. There's a there's
Speaker 1: a lot of guys in the draft that you look
Speaker 1: at and they're really good, but there's a player that's
Speaker 1: good like that every year. There's only so many guys
Speaker 1: you look at every year where it's you've got to
Speaker 1: draft this guy now because you're not going to get
Speaker 1: him next year. Joe Milton is one of those guys
Speaker 1: where you're not gonna find anybody else with his skill set.
Speaker 1: And that again, that doesn't mean it's perfect, that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it's good. But just as somebody who likes the
Speaker 1: game of football and enjoys the pre draft process, he's
Speaker 1: a fascinating, fascinating, fascinating part of this.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, you just went through a sickness, an
Speaker 2: illness to just go three minutes on Joe Milton. So
Speaker 2: that's how you know how good he is to you.
Speaker 1: Or how nobody gets you interesting. Interesting.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say good, you're right how it's just going
Speaker 2: to be clear like he's interesting. Okay, let's let's talk
Speaker 2: about the tackles. So I think there's six tackles uh
Speaker 2: that are going to be in Mobile that are real considerations,
Speaker 2: uh for the Patriots of the top of the second round.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna butcher some of these names because some
Speaker 2: of them are tough of Talisi Fugala from Oregon State.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: My guy who I really like a lot is Troy
Speaker 2: fott Neu from Washington, Jordan Morgan from Arizona, Tyler Guidon
Speaker 2: from Oklahoma, Kingsley Sumataia Sumataie.
Speaker 1: I usually practice the names, but obviously I can't speak.
Speaker 2: I'm very sorry. I'm very sorry to to these people's parents.
Speaker 2: I really am. And uh Patrick Paul from Houston. That
Speaker 2: one's easy. So I'm excited about this group. I you know,
Speaker 2: especially when you go to stuff like the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 2: seeing these guys against NFL guys, draftable NFL guys, and
Speaker 2: how they handle power, how they handle those types of
Speaker 2: one on ones. It's a really good snapshot for these guys.
Speaker 2: I mentioned fot New you know, he was the left
Speaker 2: tackle for Washington this past year and they won the
Speaker 2: More Award. You know, they had one of the best
Speaker 2: offensive lines in football in college football. But I know
Speaker 2: there's a lot of love for Morgan, for Patrick Paul,
Speaker 2: for really all this group. But I think it would
Speaker 2: not just shock me in the least if the Patriots
Speaker 2: thirty fourth picking the draft is one of these.
Speaker 1: Six guys, or if they move up if they like
Speaker 1: one of them. But this is I mean, we talk
Speaker 1: about this event is one of those things where you're
Speaker 1: sorting guys out and right now there's seven tackles projected
Speaker 1: to go into thirty pick range basically between called twenty
Speaker 1: and fifty. Of those seven, six will be at the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl of Marius Mims from Georgia is the loan
Speaker 1: one who won't. But yeah, you know, you could stack
Speaker 1: them in just about any order of these seven guys
Speaker 1: right now, and you could probably make a pretty compelling
Speaker 1: case for it. So there's a lot to like about
Speaker 1: all of them. They certainly all have their flaws as well.
Speaker 1: I think this is this especially with the offensive line position,
Speaker 1: like last year, we did this with the receivers of
Speaker 1: the Combine, and that's because a lot of the receivers
Speaker 1: didn't go to the Senior Bowl. But we were like,
Speaker 1: remember there were those four guys, and it was okay,
Speaker 1: what order do they go in with the linemen? And
Speaker 1: an event like the Senior bowls much more valuable than
Speaker 1: an event like the Combine. So we're gonna kind of see, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's these again, men's will be there. Here's these six
Speaker 1: guys that are all projected to be within range of
Speaker 1: the Patriots. Who do you like better than who?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: This is kind of a big week to decide that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love these events for the one on ones,
Speaker 2: Like I think that that's such a big thing. It's
Speaker 2: just on an island, one on one pass pro against
Speaker 2: NFL draftable talent on the other side, Like how do
Speaker 2: you hold up? Because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: that's the game now. Like as much as we can
Speaker 2: talk about run blocking and all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: if you can't pass protect, that's the item Number one.
Speaker 2: I remember Macro telling me last year at the Combine.
Speaker 2: Number one is pass protection, Like can you or can
Speaker 2: you not pass protect? Like that's where we start with everybody,
Speaker 2: and I think that that's a big part of this.
Speaker 2: All right, quickly, there's just the.
Speaker 1: Three guys I like there that stand out to me
Speaker 1: right now, and we'll see from Washington pros pro pros
Speaker 1: pro just like a ready made NFL tackle. I like
Speaker 1: Patrick Paul from Houston. I think he has among the
Speaker 1: better upside in the group, if that makes sense. Like,
Speaker 1: I think he's a guy that not says a project player,
Speaker 1: but you can maybe get a little more from with patients.
Speaker 1: And then I also really like Jordan Morgan from Arizona
Speaker 1: and who knows where the jetfish connection is at at
Speaker 1: this point, but Mayo was on the staff with him.
Speaker 1: Maybe a guy they can get a little, yeah, at.
Speaker 2: Least some intel out of that. Yeah, how did you say,
Speaker 2: Troy Fotnuanu?
Speaker 1: Maybe sorry is coughing, I've I've been I've been saying Fatanu.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, well maybe checked that and mobile I'll figure
Speaker 2: out exactly how.
Speaker 1: Usually when these guys talk to the media down there,
Speaker 1: the first question is can you say your name?
Speaker 2: Yeah, those guys, he reminds me you said it. You know,
Speaker 2: pros pro a lot of reps, you know, like a
Speaker 2: lot of experience against top competition. I know the the
Speaker 2: Washington offensive line got exposed against Michigan, but I thought
Speaker 2: he actually had a pretty decent game himself, Like a
Speaker 2: lot of the pressure was coming off the right side.
Speaker 2: Their right tackle got destroyed in the National.
Speaker 1: Gayeah he'll I think he'll actually be at the Swimble
Speaker 1: as well. He won Rose Garden. He uh, that was
Speaker 1: the guy I liked. I saw that game. He's got
Speaker 1: a lot of making up to do.
Speaker 2: Okay really quickly because only have a couple more minutes here.
Speaker 2: The group of receivers in Mobile next week, it's so good,
Speaker 2: so there's no the top guys obviously aren't going, like
Speaker 2: Marvin Harrison Junior or the league neighbors, Romadonza, Kean Coleman,
Speaker 2: Brian Thomas, Troy Franklin like that. The guys that are
Speaker 2: going in the first round are not going to be there.
Speaker 1: The Texas guys aren't there either.
Speaker 2: Oh right, yeah, Texas guys too. But we do have
Speaker 2: Xavier l get Lad McConkie, Ted Walker, Johnny Wilson, mclai Corley,
Speaker 2: Ricky Parcel, Brandon Rice from USC, Roman Wilson from Michigan.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's other guys that you like too that
Speaker 2: I didn't just name, But that's like eight guys that
Speaker 2: I just rat rattle off that are all going to
Speaker 2: be there. One of the most fun things about these
Speaker 2: events is, obviously I mentioned the one on once for
Speaker 2: the lineman. That's more like you know nerds like me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the one on ones receivers versus corners, right like,
Speaker 2: that's always a like that. That's where you really get
Speaker 2: the popcorn out. And I think all of these guys
Speaker 2: have some really good route running skill that will could
Speaker 2: wow the crowd a little bit with some of their
Speaker 2: their route running.
Speaker 1: Here, I'm gonna throw a bold take out right now, Levan,
Speaker 1: there are multiple future Pro Bowl receivers at the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl wow or now Pro Bowl All Pro Wow. Well see,
Speaker 1: you don't seem that wowed by it. They sounded sarcastic.
Speaker 2: No, that's a bold take, IM. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I agree, but it's a bold take.
Speaker 1: You don't think there's multiple Pro Bowl receivers there?
Speaker 2: There could be.
Speaker 1: I think I think there is. We talked a little
Speaker 1: bitbouta get already. I like Tesz Walker, especially if you
Speaker 1: draft uh yeah, Drake May you compare the two kind
Speaker 1: of similar, you know, downfield, bigger receivers. I want to
Speaker 1: give you a couple of deeper guys, though, and you
Speaker 1: focus so much on the top guys. Uh. Ricky Piersoll
Speaker 1: from Florida. Yep, I'm super interested in him because you
Speaker 1: talk about a guy that plays the game ferociously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an aggressive player.
Speaker 1: He's in a good way, oh, in a great way.
Speaker 1: Like I there's times where you talk about separating at
Speaker 1: the top of the route and you're talking about quickness.
Speaker 1: He separates physically and it's not offensive pass interference. He
Speaker 1: just muscles his way through guys. It's it's really fun
Speaker 1: to watch great catch radius. Jacob Cowing from Arizona's a
Speaker 1: really interesting player, kind of a slot guy. Luke McCaffrey
Speaker 1: from Rice, so Christian's brother, Yeah, is going to be there.
Speaker 1: And then the one other guy I want you to
Speaker 1: watch evan is Jordan Whittington from Texas. I think he's
Speaker 1: the lowest rated prospect that'll be there, but he kind
Speaker 1: of got lost. He was the third receiver behind Ady
Speaker 1: Mitchell davy Worthy. But you talk about a guy that's
Speaker 1: just steady, You talk about a guy that's reliable. Like
Speaker 1: he's not the biggest, he's not the fastest, he's not
Speaker 1: the strongest, but he's just always open. And look, obviously
Speaker 1: some of that was, you know with eighty Mitchell z
Speaker 1: av Worthy helped, but not a guy that drops a
Speaker 1: lot of passes, doesn't run sloppy routes. Like some team's
Speaker 1: gonna find him on day three and he's going to
Speaker 1: develop into a really good, complimentary receiver and I'm interested
Speaker 1: to see. I Look, he's not on the level of
Speaker 1: those other guys, but I do think he's being slept
Speaker 1: on a little bit right now. I wonder if he
Speaker 1: comes away from this week or from Senior Bowl week
Speaker 1: with more of the recognition that he deserves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's a good list, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2: You know, I have I have an affinity for Roman Wilson.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I I feel like I see a lot of a
Speaker 2: mon ros Saint Brown in his game.
Speaker 1: So I'm really interested to see than what you think
Speaker 1: of Peersaw, because I feel like Pierce All is a
Speaker 1: bigger version of Roman Wilson. Yeah, maybe more of an
Speaker 1: outside version too, but like, yeah, I just look.
Speaker 2: At you know, ability to separate obviously ball you know
Speaker 2: Billy as a ball carrier, yack receiver, you know a
Speaker 2: lot of gadget not gadget, but like scheme touches, you know,
Speaker 2: jet sweeps and around slide routes, things like that that
Speaker 2: they would use him on as a lot of the
Speaker 2: different things that Detroit uses him on, Ross Saint Brown on.
Speaker 2: So I'm interested to see, but you know, a guy
Speaker 2: like him, and then we really have to wrap. But
Speaker 2: a guy like him Roman Wilson, he's got to be
Speaker 2: like wowing you in one on once right, like, because
Speaker 2: he's he's not fit, he's not a big guy, so
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to be a route running technician type
Speaker 2: down in Mobile. So, like I said, I'll be down
Speaker 2: in Mobile and Alex and I will do a show
Speaker 2: on Wednesday afternoon, I think is the plan for me
Speaker 2: at the Senior Bowl. And I'll just throw a bunch
Speaker 2: of names at Alex and he'll tell me way more
Speaker 2: about him than I know. But I hang on here
Speaker 2: and Alex said, thanks again, thanks again for playing hurt man.
Speaker 1: Thanks for thanks for putting up with my voice. Everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping I'll be back full strength next week.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and not. Peu's up next, so don't go anywhere.
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