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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Giants, get

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Speaker 1: my Giants, give me some jokes.

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Speaker 2: Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

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Speaker 3: Let's welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast,

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Speaker 3: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank at the Giants.

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Speaker 3: I'm John Schmulke, joined by Matt Sidetak as react to

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Speaker 3: the final episode of Giants Hard Knocks off season. The

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Speaker 3: final episode is in the books met and we saw

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Speaker 3: the Giants complete their draft and then I guess I'll

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Speaker 3: start here. Didn't get much after the draft, Like you

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Speaker 3: didn't get much of the spring workouts at all. You

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Speaker 3: got like a little montage at the end, so it

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Speaker 3: was pretty much draft, We're done.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I guess they promised the whole show

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Speaker 4: about you know, this is how Joe Shane and the

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Speaker 4: front office build the roster, and the draft is the

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Speaker 4: last big part of building the rosters. So I guess

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Speaker 4: they thought, hey, we don't have to, you know, show

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Speaker 4: anything after that. You know, the undrafted rookie free agents,

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Speaker 4: you know a couple of signings that happened after you know,

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Speaker 4: they just decided to cut it off after the draft.

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Speaker 3: It's almost always more like Hard Knock's front office than

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Speaker 3: like Hard Knocks off season.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean is the off season would

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Speaker 2: have included all the.

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Speaker 3: OTAs and Mini camp and stuff like that, but it

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Speaker 3: was really more just free agency in the draft. So

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Speaker 3: it was almost to me it was kind of like

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Speaker 3: Hard Knocks off front office rather than Hard Knocks offseason.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which was a little surprising because I mean, the

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Speaker 4: cameras were still here throughout the offseason program. Yeah, after

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Speaker 4: the draft, so I thought they were gonna show, you know,

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Speaker 4: at least some of the clips from OTAs, I mean,

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Speaker 4: especially some of those Melik Neighbors highlights, like kind of

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Speaker 4: incorporate that into the Elik Neighbors getting drafted part of

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Speaker 4: the show, but they decided not to show any of it.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, but you know, we got a lot of

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Speaker 3: good information and good stuff to talk about here. And

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Speaker 3: it started, obviously, would basically the draft beginning in Vegas

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Speaker 3: and finding out who these teams were picking. And we

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Speaker 3: saw on the previous episode that the Giants, obviously, like

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Speaker 3: all NFL teams, try to figure out what other teams

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Speaker 3: in the draft are going to do, and it seemed

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Speaker 3: like they had everyone pretty locked in the team they

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Speaker 3: weren't sure about were the chargers and when they went

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Speaker 3: on the clock. And now this could also be edited

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Speaker 3: to provide some drama in terms of creating good television,

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Speaker 3: but there did seem to be some you know what,

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Speaker 3: we think they're picking an offensive tackle here. They didn't

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Speaker 3: know if it was Joe Alt or JC Latham. They

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Speaker 3: also thought the wide receiver was you know, not impossible

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Speaker 3: on that point. I enjoyed the little back and forth

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Speaker 3: between Joe Shane and Brian Dable in the draft room where.

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Speaker 2: Joe Shane is.

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Speaker 3: I could tell he's nervous, but he's trying to stay

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Speaker 3: relaxed excluently. So what do you think here? Latham or

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Speaker 3: al And he goes, I think they're picking Latham. And

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Speaker 3: then he asked Dabel, well are you thinking to pick?

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Speaker 3: And he just goes not Maline, which I thought was funny.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, watching that scene, I mean it kind of made

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Speaker 4: me laugh a little bit, because that's kind of how

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Speaker 4: like I felt when I was waiting watching the draft,

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Speaker 4: waiting for our pick. You know, in our own little

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Speaker 4: draft room we have of our digital department that we

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Speaker 4: say in all draft weekend, you know, we were sitting

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Speaker 4: there being like who the charge is gonna take? Who

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Speaker 4: the charge are gonna take? Really, hope it's not Leak Neighbors, Like,

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Speaker 4: hope it's not rolling with dude day hoping for one

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Speaker 4: of the receivers. And so it was kind of funny

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Speaker 4: watching the decision makers sit in the actual draft room

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Speaker 4: sort of sitting there waiting, thinking the same thing, like

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Speaker 4: please know, please know. And I the one quote I

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Speaker 4: wrote down for that scene also what you have just

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Speaker 4: not Malik. That was a great quote by Dave's. But

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Speaker 4: that kind of just goes to show how much Dave's

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Speaker 4: loved Malik Neighbors and really wanted him here. I mean

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Speaker 4: from the I believe the first or second episode, from

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Speaker 4: the first time they showed Malik Neighbors, I believe at

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Speaker 4: the combine, yep, it was very clear that Brian Dable

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Speaker 4: fell in love with the kid and wanted him here

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Speaker 4: basically no matter what.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then after the pick, Joe Shane kind of

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Speaker 3: pokes Dave's. You know, Dave's who's such an emotional guy

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Speaker 3: during games and he talks about it, he's a temper

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Speaker 3: and all that sort of stuff. Very stoic in the

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Speaker 3: draft room, like doesn't say much kind of just sits there.

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Speaker 3: We'll talking a bit of little reaction yet a little

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Speaker 3: bit later on the show. But eventually Shane is like

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Speaker 3: trying to I feel he's trying to get Dave's excited, like,

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Speaker 3: come on, man, like, aren't you excited? He goes yeah,

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Speaker 3: and he goes, come on, man, accord to you, is

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Speaker 3: the best receiver in the draft. Soor and Mike gros

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Speaker 3: say that in last week's show that he thought Neighbors

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Speaker 3: was his top receiver, and now we find out, at

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Speaker 3: least according to that kind of back and forth.

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Speaker 2: That Dable had him at his number one guy as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's seemed to be I mean you

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Speaker 4: mentioned Mike Growe said that Malik Neighbors would be his

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Speaker 4: top choice. We saw that clip last week that seemed

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Speaker 4: to be I don't want to say the consensus because

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Speaker 4: we don't know what every single person in the front

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Speaker 4: office thought, but it was very clear that Milik Neighbors

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Speaker 4: was at or near the top of the Giants draft board.

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Speaker 4: And once they made that pick, they were ecstatic. They

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Speaker 4: got their number one playmaker, their number one receiver. And

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Speaker 4: you know, we always talk about wants or needs meeting

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Speaker 4: with best player available, and that's exactly what happened for

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Speaker 4: the Giants with Malik Neighbors. They needed an offensive playmaker,

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Speaker 4: someone that they could just get the ball in his

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Speaker 4: hands and let him go. And Malik Neighbors is probably

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Speaker 4: the best player of the draft in that regard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw. I think Joe Shane was talking.

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Speaker 3: I think it was to Ryan Cowden basically saying, look,

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Speaker 3: we have you know, Neighbors and A Dunees they already here.

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Speaker 3: Those are the two names you want to have ready

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Speaker 3: here just in case you pick again. You know other

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Speaker 3: people could have been in the mix there too that

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Speaker 3: they didn't want to put him in the episode, but

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Speaker 3: they one more chance to trade out of the pick.

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Speaker 3: The Colts made a call offering fifteen forty six their

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Speaker 3: second rounder this year, then their second round they're in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. Joe Shane talking to Chris Ballard, is like,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'll let you know, and then he hinds.

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Speaker 2: On the phone.

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Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, I don't want to go that far

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Speaker 3: down to fifteen, which is understandable because at that point

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Speaker 3: you're not getting A Dunes and you're not getting Boers,

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Speaker 3: which are the two names we talked about after I

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Speaker 3: guess that was what episode four, Yeah, last week. So

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Speaker 3: they just didn't want to move that far down. And

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Speaker 3: for two twos, it's a nice value, I get it,

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Speaker 3: but if you're trying to talk on one of those playmakers,

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Speaker 3: you can't move down nine spots.

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Speaker 2: Though.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it definitely is good value two second

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Speaker 4: round picks. Giants could have had two, you know, very

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Speaker 4: solid players. They would have had back to back picks

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Speaker 4: in the second round with forty six and forty seven.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, again they needed playmaker and like, yes, they

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Speaker 4: if they dropped at fifteen, Joe could have, you know,

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Speaker 4: work some magic to try to move back up, but

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Speaker 4: that would have then cost at least some of the

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Speaker 4: additional draft capital that he had just gotten from this

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Speaker 4: hypothetical trade. If they stayed at fifteen, Like, yeah, they

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Speaker 4: could have taken When did Brian Thomas go to the Jaguars?

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Speaker 3: Actually brought up the draft just so I can answer

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Speaker 3: these questions Brian Thomas. I think he didn't go to

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Speaker 3: the Jaguars until like twenty one, I think.

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Speaker 4: Or something that he was the first receiver gone after

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Speaker 4: a Dune's Day, that's correct, Yes, Yeah, so like they

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Speaker 4: could have taken yeah, twenty twenty three, so they could

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Speaker 4: have taken Brian Thomas junior. But as we've spoken about,

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Speaker 4: especially in the lead up to the draft, there was

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Speaker 4: a pretty significant drop off between the top three receivers

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Speaker 4: and then the next guy. So I don't blame Joe

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Speaker 4: at all for rejecting that trade. I would have done

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Speaker 4: the same thing. You know, we talked last week about how,

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Speaker 4: or at least I would have been somewhat interested in that.

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Speaker 2: Hypothetical Bears offer.

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Speaker 4: But that's because it would have basically guaranteed that we

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Speaker 4: still would have gotten Roma Dunes. They are brock Bowers

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Speaker 4: dropping to fifteen. You know, maybe if the Giants hadn't

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Speaker 4: done the trade for Brian Burns and Ed Rusher was

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Speaker 4: still in need, then dropping to fifteen and picking Lautu,

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Speaker 4: who the truck the Colts ended up taking, then I

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Speaker 4: could have seen that being you know, a potential possibility.

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Speaker 4: If they maybe did a trade and you know, instead

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Speaker 4: of trading for Brian Burns traded for a wide receiver,

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Speaker 4: maybe then I would have considered it. But given where

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Speaker 4: they were and how free agency went, they had to

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Speaker 4: stay at Sex and take Molik neighbors.

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Speaker 3: And then in the teas last week, we thought we

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Speaker 3: might get a trade offer from the Jets.

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Speaker 2: But I never seen the materialize.

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Speaker 4: We didn't actually hear what they offered. I was a

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Speaker 4: little disappointed about that. I wanted to hear how much

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Speaker 4: they were offering. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine it

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Speaker 4: was much. I mean, as we've seen, Joe made it

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Speaker 4: very clear that if Malik or Marvin Harrison were on

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Speaker 4: the board at six, they were taking him. But whatever

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Speaker 4: the offer Joe Douglas made, it couldn't have been that much.

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Speaker 4: If Joe didn't even bother like repeating the offer or

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Speaker 4: saying it to the root. I mean, I'm sure he

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Speaker 4: said it to someone in the room, but it was

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Speaker 4: very clear that he just shot it down immediately. So

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Speaker 4: there's no way that it would have been much value there.

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Speaker 5: You're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens,

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Speaker 5: so go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.

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Speaker 5: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

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Speaker 5: you ready for all that life breaks?

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to say where I'm looking for the other Jets?

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Speaker 2: Pick here? What am I missing? Didn't the Jets have

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Speaker 2: two ones are sure I remember that incorrect way, No,

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Speaker 2: I think that was it. Also, that was two years ago,

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah. But so the Jets did have.

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Speaker 3: A lot to offer there, but again we never found

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Speaker 3: out what the what the offer was. So heading into

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Speaker 3: round two, I thought it was interesting Joe kind of

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Speaker 3: updating his little board on his wall before he you know,

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Speaker 3: left for the night on Thursday, and then coming back

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Speaker 3: on Friday, he kind of sits everyone down again throws

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Speaker 3: out some scenarios as to what might happen. And this

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Speaker 3: is tough, right because the Giants in round number two

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Speaker 3: is they traded their early round two pick in the

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Speaker 3: trade for Brian Burns, right, So the pick they had

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Speaker 3: left I believe they were picking fifteenth in round number two, right,

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Speaker 3: So they were fourteen players that had to go off

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Speaker 3: the board before you're selecting, So you can't really lock

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Speaker 3: in on one or two guys.

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Speaker 2: That's not how this is gonna work.

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Speaker 3: So you have to have multiple backup plans based on

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Speaker 3: how the board might fall. So it was pretty clear

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Speaker 3: and this should be no surprise. We talked about this

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Speaker 3: on Big Kickoff on Friday afternoon. We talked about all

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Speaker 3: throughout the draft process. We knew cornerback was a huge

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Speaker 3: need and the team wanted to try to add someone

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Speaker 3: at cornerback, and they like two guys in round number two,

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Speaker 3: Kulaid McKinstry and Kamari Lasser.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the Giants got close to getting one of

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Speaker 4: those guys five pickswa they were within five picks, and

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Speaker 4: then there was a little run on the corners and

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Speaker 4: both those guys got taken. And you know, looking at

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Speaker 4: the reaction in the draft room, I mean they show

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Speaker 4: Ryan Ryan Cowden Codin Calden Cowden, we.

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Speaker 2: Heard him too.

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Speaker 4: We yeah, we heard his reaction when he found out

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Speaker 4: that Lasseter was going. I believe it was forty second overall, he.

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Speaker 2: Was not happy.

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Speaker 4: And then when he relayed the message to the room,

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Speaker 4: you know, Brian Dable kind of looked up at the

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Speaker 4: ceiling visibly frustrated. So it was clear that those two

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Speaker 4: guys were pretty high up on their board at that point.

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Speaker 2: But as then we.

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Speaker 4: Saw, you know a few moments later where they did

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Speaker 4: a flashback to earlier in the day. Joe had a

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Speaker 4: contingency plan in case those guys were both gone, and it.

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Speaker 3: Seemed like he didn't think they were gonna the nice sense.

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Speaker 3: Listening to Joe talk about it, I thought it was.

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Speaker 3: Shane felt it was more likely than not those two

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Speaker 3: guys would have been gone by the time the Giants pass.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was a little bit of like

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Speaker 4: wishful thinking, like let's hope one of these guys drops

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Speaker 4: to us, it's probably won't happen, and he had a

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Speaker 4: backup plan and backup plan that clearly Joe, Shane, Shane Bowen,

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Speaker 4: pretty much the whole defensive staff felt great about and

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Speaker 4: that was taking Tyler Nuben at forty seven. He was

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Speaker 4: Shane Bowen said he was his number one safety. He

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Speaker 4: was a lot of people's number one safety.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 4: They showed a sound clip of Daniel Jeremiah from NFL

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Speaker 4: Network talking about Nuben saying he was his number one

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Speaker 4: safety in the class.

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Speaker 2: As well.

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Speaker 4: Last week we spoke about how Nick Saban said that

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Speaker 4: Nuben was his number one safety, So the Giants got

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Speaker 4: the best safety in the draft in a lot of

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Speaker 4: people's eyes. They mentioned several characteristics of Tyler Nuben blue

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Speaker 4: ballhawk leadership, communication.

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Speaker 3: Checks all the boxes, and should come in and start

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Speaker 3: writer and yeah, come in and contribute.

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Speaker 2: Year one. I mean I think they actually said start

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Speaker 2: year one for Nuban. I think they did so.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, especially after Xavier McKinney left in free agency,

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Speaker 4: safety was somewhat of a big hole for the Giants roster.

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Speaker 4: I mean, yes, they have some young players and guys

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Speaker 4: that have actually been playing really well to start a

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Speaker 4: camp between Jason Pennock and Dane Belton, but they added

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Speaker 4: a young guy here who, as we just said, checks

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Speaker 4: all of their boxes, can come in and start playing

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Speaker 4: right away, and they seem pretty happy with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing they mentioned, the analytics department was

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Speaker 3: big on Nuban. They said ball production in college does

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Speaker 3: tend to translate to the NFL when you look at

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Speaker 3: some of the studies that they've done, and I think

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Speaker 3: they're just big fans of him as a person and

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Speaker 3: a player. They did talk about the potential potentially trading

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Speaker 3: up to make sure you got one of those cornerbacks

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Speaker 3: in a round two. Joe Shane said it would cost

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Speaker 3: him a fourth round pick. And given the fact they

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Speaker 3: only had six players, and I think they realized they

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Speaker 3: was so trying to fill out this roster, there were

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Speaker 3: other needs. That was the pick they eventually used on

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Speaker 3: THEO Johnson that they didn't want to lose a pick

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Speaker 3: where you can get a contributing player given where this

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Speaker 3: team is in terms of rock to building.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, obviously at that time, you don't know

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Speaker 4: who's going to be there in the fourth round, so

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Speaker 4: you don't know what that pick's going to turn into.

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Speaker 4: But looking back at it now, knowing that the Giants

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Speaker 4: got THEO Johnson in the fourth round, I'm very happy

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Speaker 4: that they stood pat took Nuban at forty seven instead

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Speaker 4: of trading up, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: I would rather have Tyler Nuban and THEO Johnson than

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Speaker 4: one of kool Aid.

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Speaker 2: McKinstry or Kam Kamari Lassidar.

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Speaker 4: For me, that's like there's no doubt about it, especially

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Speaker 4: given Darren Waller's retirement. I mean, THEO Johnson could end

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Speaker 4: up being this giant starting tight end. We don't know

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Speaker 4: that for sure. There's gonna be a lot of competition,

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Speaker 4: and he may not start right away, he may not

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Speaker 4: even start as a rookie. But I don't think it's

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Speaker 4: going to be too long or too far down the

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Speaker 4: road before THEO Johnson is the giant starting tight end.

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Speaker 4: It could be next year, but that I do think

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Speaker 4: that will eventually happen. I mean, and we will talk

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Speaker 4: about this later, and we talk about scene of the

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Speaker 4: lead up to the Giants taking THEO. But he clearly

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Speaker 4: was a great prospect and someone that the Giants thought

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Speaker 4: very highly of.

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Speaker 2: So I was grateful that they did not do that trade.

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Speaker 2: Football season is coming, and so was the next college semester.

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Speaker 3: They did get the cornerback Matt in round of three,

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Speaker 3: a guy that they termed a three down nickel cornerback.

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Speaker 4: This might have been my favorite part of the whole episode,

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Speaker 4: just the talking about Drew Phillips. There were so many

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Speaker 4: different things here that I thought was very interesting. First

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Speaker 4: of all, Jerome Henderson and Shane Bowen, who Joe Shane

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Speaker 4: asked their opinions of Drew Phillips prior to calling in

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Speaker 4: the pick, both said that they see him as a

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Speaker 4: three down nickel cornerback, and Joe also mentioned that they

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Speaker 4: see him potentially starting or playing inside and outside yep,

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Speaker 4: which we know how much the coaching staff loves having

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Speaker 4: versatility basically any position on this roster.

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Speaker 2: But the quote that.

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Speaker 4: Really stood out was I believe it was Joe that

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Speaker 4: said that Drew Phillips was the last corner we'd be

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Speaker 4: fired up about before getting to the developmental guys. So

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Speaker 4: again another guy that they clearly thought this kid can

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Speaker 4: come in and play right away. I mean they Joe

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Speaker 4: mentioned that if they were to get Drew Phillips, they'd

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Speaker 4: be getting a starting cornerback. He called him a starting

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Speaker 4: corner multiple times in that scene or in that little

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Speaker 4: segment of the show, so they clearly thought very high

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Speaker 4: of him. And I liked that they went back and

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Speaker 4: showed the clip of Drew Phillips when he came for

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Speaker 4: a visit earlier in the off season with Joe and

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Speaker 4: Brian Dable, and I believe it was Dave's asked him

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Speaker 4: what is your number one trait on the field, and

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Speaker 4: he said that it's his toughness, and he said, I'm

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Speaker 4: not scared of anyone once I step on the field.

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Speaker 2: I love hearing that from any guy on.

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Speaker 4: The field, any position, but especially a starting, potential starting

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Speaker 4: corner who's gonna have to face some you know, very

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Speaker 4: talented wide receivers. I love a guy that has the

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Speaker 4: mentality of I'm not afraid of anyone. I know what

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Speaker 4: I can do, and I'm willing to go up against anyone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think more importantly, if a guy you're gonna

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Speaker 3: have to play inside that has to do a lot

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Speaker 3: of run support stuff against pulling guards and you know,

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Speaker 3: tight ends. You need a guy that's willing to stick

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Speaker 3: their nose in there and be tough to stop the run,

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Speaker 3: especially when you're playing inside.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mean we're only a week in the

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Speaker 4: training camp, but we've already seen Drew Phillips make multiple

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Speaker 4: plays in the run game that's running up and shutting

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Speaker 4: down running backs, you know, at or behind the line

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Speaker 4: of scrimmage. So again, it's it's only been a week

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Speaker 4: of camp, but so far, the things that you know,

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Speaker 4: they discussed about Phillips, his characteristics, we've already seen on

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Speaker 4: the field.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he's a foot He's not just a cover corner.

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Speaker 3: He's a football player, stick his nose in there, and

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Speaker 3: the right attitude. Absolutely one hundred percent. Third round now

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Speaker 3: or rather third day, and we kind of heard from

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Speaker 3: Tim McDonald and we heard from Brandon Brown throughout the

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Speaker 3: episode as well as along with Joe Shane talk about

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Speaker 3: how Day three is tough because you're looking for needs

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Speaker 3: that you want to fail, but you also want to

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Speaker 3: pick the best player, so you kind of have to

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Speaker 3: balance those things as you move forward. Here, I'm always

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Speaker 3: the best player available guy on Day three because I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's so tough to try to fill a need.

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Speaker 3: There's just not that many guys left on the board

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Speaker 3: that you think can eventually become a starter. So if

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Speaker 3: that's a guy out there that you think can become

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Speaker 3: a good player, just pick him and then you figure

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Speaker 3: it out afterwards. But the Giants did manage I think,

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Speaker 3: to do both. And we'll start with Theo Johnson and

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Speaker 3: they talked about his explosive measurables. Brian Dable really liked

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Speaker 3: his actual physical measurables in addition to that, talking about

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Speaker 3: him as a guy that's you know, sixty six two

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Speaker 3: sixty that can move and the I think I don't

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Speaker 3: know if it was Shay Tierney or someone that had

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Speaker 3: him at one of the uh, someone that had him

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Speaker 3: one of the All Star Games had a little scattery, right,

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Speaker 3: and it was basically said, he's respectful, but he's tough.

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Speaker 3: He never wants to miss a rep. So it seemed

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Speaker 3: to be a good combination of traits that they liked.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that was the one guy where it's

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Speaker 4: at least that we saw in Hard Knocks where Joe said,

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Speaker 4: like there was just total conviction from the scouts and

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Speaker 4: the coaching stuff. Everyone seemed to be on the same

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Speaker 4: page about THEO Johnson. A good thing that the Giants

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Speaker 4: were able to do was, and Joe mentioned this, was

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Speaker 4: they got so much.

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Speaker 2: Exposure to him throughout the offseason.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you know they anyone went to

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Speaker 4: a Penn State game to scout him during last season.

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Speaker 2: They didn't mention that, but I'm sure somebody was in

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Speaker 2: one at some point. Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 4: But then the Senior Bowl we saw the one brief

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Speaker 4: clip of Shae Tierney talking to THEO Johnson on the field,

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Speaker 4: as you just mentioned. Then Dennis Hickey along with a

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Speaker 4: couple of scouts were at the Penn State Pro Day.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they met him at the combine, but.

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Speaker 1: They clearly prior to the draft had multiple occasions where

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Speaker 1: someone from the organized someone from the front office or

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Speaker 1: coaching staff was talking to him, kind of getting their

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Speaker 1: hands on him seeing Dave.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't there a scene where Dabe was sitting down with

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Speaker 3: him at a table in front of a large TV

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Speaker 3: monitor going through a play that that might have been,

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Speaker 3: you know what the combine they do, like the little

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Speaker 3: ten minutes at a time interviews with these guys. My

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Speaker 3: guess is that was what they called the car wash

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Speaker 3: and they bring the guys kind of in and out.

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Speaker 2: That's where it looked like maybe Dable way, Yeah, they didn't.

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Speaker 4: I think you might right, because they didn't actually say

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Speaker 4: what where that scene.

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Speaker 2: As you try to figure it out.

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Speaker 4: Why too, I'm like, I thought, maybe they met with

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Speaker 4: him at the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 2: Potentially I couldn't you know what, I couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 2: That also could have been the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 3: You you got a little bit of time with these

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Speaker 3: guys at the Senior Bowl too, so it actually, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're right that that also could have been the Senior Bowl,

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Speaker 3: no question. Yeah, but try to figure out where Davie

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Speaker 3: wore that black hat. Did he wear the black hat

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Speaker 3: at the Senior Bowl or at the cob on the.

436
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 2: Combine. You have to look back at the photos on Giants.

437
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 2: We are you loved turf.

438
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 5: You're good at it, so you start a turf biz business, grows,

439
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 5: your savings grow, become the most celebrated name in terms,

440
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 5: are you ready.

441
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 1: For all that life brings?

442
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 4: But yeah, but they just it was clear that so

443
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 4: many people in the front office and the coaching staff

444
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 4: loved him, loved everything about him. Uh, you know, coach

445
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 4: called him a dog, which I feel like there have

446
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 4: been a couple of guys in this draft class that

447
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 4: have gotten that, you know, characteristic.

448
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 2: I think up to three dogs now. Uh.

449
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 4: And the other thing that just stood out to me,

450
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 4: I don't know if it was Joe or Dab's, but

451
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 4: they just mentioned he that he's so explosive for a

452
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 4: guy his size.

453
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's six ' six.

454
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: Two forty five.

455
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 2: I think bigger than that. He fifty around that size,

456
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: I'll check it. And he's fast.

457
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 4: So these are I mean, at that point we didn't

458
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 4: know whether or not Darren Waller was going to retire.

459
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 4: It seemed like maybe they had an idea of where

460
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 4: he was leaning. Given the fact that they went and

461
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 4: you know, targeted THEO Johnson in the fourth round, but yeah,

462
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 4: it was it's not that I spect sixty nine.

463
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: Wow, that's even bigger than I thought. Large guy.

464
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 3: Again, I mean, when you have a guy that that size,

465
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 3: that tested the way he did, and they kind of

466
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: went through his his measurements four five seven, forty yard

467
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 3: dash of one to five to five split, which is great.

468
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 3: Then he also jumped just under forty inches, a ten

469
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: and a half foot broad jump, a seven to one

470
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 3: to five to three con a four to one nine

471
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: short shuttle And look, tight end has proven to be

472
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: a traits position.

473
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 2: They don't all hit.

474
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 3: We've had plenty of guys with traits get drafted over

475
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 3: the last couple years and they haven't hit. But the

476
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 3: guys that do, more often than not, test extremely well.

477
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

478
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 4: I mean we on BBK we've talked about his his

479
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 4: RAZ score being one of the highest a tight end

480
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 4: has gotten in the last like forty years. And to

481
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 4: have a guy that athletic with his size that doesn't

482
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 4: come around too often.

483
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Tyrone Chasey he tested similarly well.

484
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 3: They didn't talk much about his athletics test, and they

485
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 3: did talk about how the analytics department had some good

486
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 3: numbers in terms of explosive plays per touch, and look,

487
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 3: we saw that and they said they basically took the

488
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,239
Speaker 3: fact that he'd only better running back for one year,

489
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 3: was an older prospect. It turned that into a positive that, well,

490
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: maybe there's more upside here where he can continue to

491
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: get better. So it doesn't have a lot of experience

492
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 3: at the position.

493
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Joe kind of mentioned how some teams thought that

494
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 4: was like a negative for tyrone tracy, but they viewed

495
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 4: it as a positive. You know, less carries under his belt,

496
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 4: could potentially have a little more longevity in the NFL.

497
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: At that point, it.

498
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 4: Was good to hear Joe talk about how the analytics

499
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,880
Speaker 4: department was so high on him and clearly showing that

500
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 4: Joe relies on those guys and trust them with you know,

501
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 4: their their opinions and their research that they do on

502
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 4: these prospects. Yeah, and the one the other thing that

503
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 4: I wrote down here was Joe mentioning his explosive play

504
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 4: per touch ranking towards the top of all the running

505
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 4: backs in the draft. So when you get to the

506
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: fifth round you can get a guy like that, it's

507
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 4: worth I don't even want to call it a risk

508
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 4: because it's a fifth round pick. You know, if a

509
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: fifth round pick doesn't hit, you know, no one's gonna

510
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 4: blame you. It's not like the end of the world.

511
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 4: But Tyron Tracy seems like a guy that clearly the

512
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 4: front office thinks very highly of and thinks that he

513
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 4: could be a part of this offense, you know, both

514
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 4: now and moving forward into the future.

515
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: No, absolutely, and I think they're excited about him. Then

516
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: finally they drafted Darius Mussel out of UCLA.

517
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, which they unfortunately for Darius to kind of just

518
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 4: breezed over that part of the draft.

519
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: They had a nice video of him with a little

520
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 2: layon and all.

521
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then when they showed uh was it Joe

522
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 4: and yeah talking about watching his like little selfie video,

523
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 4: which shout out to the Giant social team for organizing

524
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 4: and getting those videos on on draft weekend.

525
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 2: Uh.

526
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 4: But yeah, there wasn't much shown about Darius muss Al

527
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 4: and the what went on to you know, lead the

528
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 4: Giants to that selection. But we've tooken about him before

529
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 4: and I think he's a guy that at least this

530
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 4: season could be a big contributor on special teams.

531
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had.

532
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 3: We had some cameos from our social team during the

533
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 3: episode as well. Oh yeah, a lot of cameos. We

534
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: have other cameos too.

535
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 4: The hard the hard hitting question of was it Bachelor

536
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: or Love is Blind?

537
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, And it was pretty clear. I think it was

538
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: Andrew Phillips.

539
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: Is that who she was talking and I was talking

540
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: to and got the feeling that he had no idea

541
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: what either show, which makes me like Andrew Phillips even more.

542
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest with you, I really do. And

543
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 2: then they kind of did a little montage at the end.

544
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: And the one thing a couple of fans have pointed

545
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 3: this out, like, like somebody as an athlete as much

546
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 3: as Brian Dable likes the Leak Neighbors, because my gosh,

547
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 3: he is a fan. And if you're drafting in fantasy

548
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 3: this year, folks, you want to get us and get

549
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 3: a lot of targets.

550
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: Go draft the Lake Neighbors.

551
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty clear Brian Dabe was going to make

552
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: sure that guy's the ball in his hands.

553
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: It awful lot.

554
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wrote down this quote. I forgot to mention

555
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 4: it earlier from Dave's word for word. We knew that

556
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 4: was going to be the player that we were going

557
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 4: to take if he was there. That's conviction right there.

558
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 4: You love to see it. And just sticking on Dahbors

559
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 4: for a second, we forgot to mention the little segment

560
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: of the show where Joe talked about the benefit of

561
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 4: having an elite wide receiver on a rookie contract. I mean,

562
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 4: as we've seen this offseason, the last couple off seasons,

563
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: the top wide receivers in the league's in the league

564
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 4: are signing crazy contracts, you know, thirty thirty five million

565
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 4: dollars a year and staying with their team, so they're

566
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 4: not becoming available on the regule. You rarely see one

567
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: of these top elite wide receivers become available.

568
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Even if they do, it would likely be.

569
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: In a trade and that's going to cost you some

570
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: serious draft capital. You took the words right out of

571
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 3: my mouth. It's just like the Brian Birds deal.

572
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: Right.

573
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 3: Wide receivers are very much like edge rushers. The elite

574
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,239
Speaker 3: guys are not going to hit the free agency more.

575
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to use draft capital along with money

576
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 3: to go and get those guys.

577
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now the Giants have elik neighbors who they

578
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 4: clearly think can become.

579
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: An elite wide receiver.

580
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: He's not there yet, obviously, he's never played it down

581
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 4: in the NFL yet, but they clearly think that he

582
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 4: has the ability to become one of the top wide

583
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 4: receivers in the league. And they're now going to have

584
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: him on a rookie contract for four years plus the

585
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: fifth year option. I mean, in an ideal world, Malik

586
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 4: plays so well that they end up signing him to

587
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 4: a big extension way before the end of that contract.

588
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 4: But nonetheless, they have him under team control now for

589
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 4: five years at a very reasonable rate for what they

590
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 4: think he's going to contribute on the field.

591
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. Final thoughts

592
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: before we say good by her. As Hard Knocks review,

593
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: love the show overall. I'm happy that they did it.

594
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: I mean, as a football nerd and someone that loves

595
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 4: the offseason part of the NFL, it was very cool

596
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 4: just to see behind the scenes of a front office

597
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 4: really in depth, and I seriously hope they continue this

598
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 4: version of Hard Knocks. You think they'll find another team

599
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: to do it well. I think, similar to the preseason one,

600
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 4: they'll force another team to do it.

601
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh, you think they're gonna try to make this mandatory.

602
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 2: I don't see why not.

603
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: I mean, they already have preseason that's mandatory, and the

604
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 4: in season that's mandatory. Why not make the offseason one mandatory,

605
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 4: especially because moving forward is not gonna be us again,

606
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 4: at least not for a long time.

607
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 3: And what though, if you're doing three of these a year,

608
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 3: team's gonna come up more frequently than you think.

609
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: That's true.

610
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like the since four teams are

611
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: in the in season one, I.

612
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 4: Was gonna say, if they can, especially if they can

613
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 4: continue the in season one being a whole division, then yeah,

614
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 4: the Giants will make it appearance on Hard Knocks again

615
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: not too far down the road. But at the same time,

616
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 4: if you're covering four teams, that's less airtime per team,

617
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 4: so less being shown in each of those buildings. So

618
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 4: this afternoon, I'm gonna have a chance to talk to

619
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: to of the producers behind the scenes of this of

620
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: Hard Knocks, So I'll pepper the bunch of questions of

621
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 4: how they went about this.

622
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: I'm even here. Here's what I'm gonna do, just for

623
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: the crazies out there.

624
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna throw all the crazy conspiracy theories theories at them,

625
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna let them shoot them all down.

626
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 2: What are some of these crazy conspiracy theories?

627
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 3: Oh, staging scenes, deceptively editing stuff to show something happened

628
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: even though it really didn't, so basically lying through deceptive editing.

629
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna throw all these conspiracy theories at them

630
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: and let them just.

631
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: Laugh and shoot them down, which will be fun.

632
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 3: I'm also gonna ask how the how the in season

633
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 3: with the whole division is gonna work.

634
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: I'm much you just curious?

635
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, same here, So we'll find out we all that episode,

636
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: I'll probably either maybe we'll move out to Friday Pierson

637
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: to get it all out of the way this week,

638
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: and we'll move Sandoda to Monday of next week.

639
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: But we'll figure that out. It's coming your way.

640
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us on the Giants Subtle Podcast,

641
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the

642
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 3: New York Football Giants format Sidetak.

643
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: This has been fun doing these episodes too, my friends.

644
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm John Schmelk and uh we probably won't be

645
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: able talk about hard Knots and the Giants for a

646
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 3: very long time, but I hope you enjoyed these episodes.

647
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: Stay tuned the Giants Little Podcast for continue in coverage

648
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: of everything New York Giants through our training camp