WEBVTT - Freedom and Accountability 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.520 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik Up Daily with 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.320 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody once again recording live from 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.600 the Brooklyn Bunker. You know, it's been probably a little 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:27.520 over a week, maybe two, since Dave Chappelle's stand up 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:33.880 received considerable considerable backlash his special on Netflix, The Closer, 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.280 which contained even in the media, they're referring to them 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:41.040 as jokes at the expense of transgender people. But if 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.159 you listen to democracy issue, you know that my co 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.680 host Urey and I discussed this in a bit of 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:52.080 detail last week, and I had the opportunity to bring 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:58.840 on one of the former former trans employees at Netflix 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:04.720 who recently made headlines because the media company decided to 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.760 yes fire them. Be pagals Minor, will join us in 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.800 a bit to talk about their experience at Netflix as 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.080 a black trans person and to talk about just in 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:21.000 general their experience in the world of tech folks. I 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.320 am so excited to welcome to wok F Daily for 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.400 the first time be pagals Miner, whose name you may 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:32.320 have heard and know in affiliation with Netflix's current scandal. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.200 With regard to the fact that there has been considerable 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.600 pushback on Dave Chappelle's special The Closer, and you have 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.080 found yourself at somewhat of the center of that issue. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.320 But before we jump into where things are now, I 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.080 want to talk about your experience at Netflix as a 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.240 black trans person and what kind of environment and kind 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.640 of culture has been present at Netflix that brings us 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.920 into this present moment. Yes, you know, it's actually really interesting, 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.600 and I think I said this a lot. I actually 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:03.840 chose Netflix because I thought it was going to be 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.360 one of the best possible experiences for me as a 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.360 black trans person. So before I decided to join up Flix, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:13.760 there's a few things around my mind. Obviously, you know, 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.280 I've worked in tech for a very long time, so 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.240 I wanted to make sure I got great k But 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.280 like you know, when I first, before I even started, 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.080 I knew I wanted to have a child. I knew 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.639 I was going to have gender confirming surge of surgery, 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.120 and so Netflix checked the boxes from a benefits perspective. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.040 And then the manager who actually recruited me, one of 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.320 the things I liked best about my experience with him 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.000 was that he asked me, for instance, at our very 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.280 first meeting, you know, what are your pronouns, and you know, 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.240 I was like my pronounder days of theirs. And he 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.799 also happened to invite me there on the same day 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.040 as a black out of it. So he took me 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.119 down to get a plate of food and I'm gonna 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.280 sill tell you that food was real good. You know, 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.760 black folks know how to eat. And I was just like, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:59.000 this is this is a very seamless recruiting experience. And then, obviously, 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.400 just because I do my be diligence, I also asked 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.600 to be introduced to people who had had my role, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.600 as well as other black at members and transfer members. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.480 So I did talk to a number of people before 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:09.840 I started to figure out if it was going to 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.960 be a very safe place for me. And I do 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.440 think that overall, my experience Netflix was one of the 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.240 best experience I've ever had professionally. You know, I felt 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.600 much safer at Netflix than I typically felt anywhere else 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.680 in my tech career, and I also hope that Netflix 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:30.200 gets back to that experience. How long were you at Netflix? 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.800 So how from from the moment of the of the 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:38.280 good plate of food at the ERG to your I 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:43.240 guess expulsion firing being let go? How long. How long 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.280 have you been there? So I started in March twenty twenty. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.800 I was actually part of the first COVID cohort, so 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:50.320 I would in the one day and the next day 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.640 we're closed. But yes, I started March twenty twenty and 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.600 my last day was October fourteen, so approximately one year 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.880 and seven months. So you chose Netflix, like you're saying, 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:07.400 because you felt safe, because you felt seen right as somebody, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.720 And you know, can you talk a bit too, because 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.560 I'm part of I'm an advisor at an organization called 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.560 Lesbians Who Tech and Allies. And one of the things 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.520 that you know is spoken about often is the fact 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.000 of how little diversity there still is in tech, how 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.120 difficult it is for people that are from the LGBTQ 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.560 community and those that are also black and brown folks 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:37.039 to navigate a very broish culture, a culture that is 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:43.320 not affirming in any way. And so the reason behind 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.600 you choosing Netflix was because of their openness and just 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.119 your experience overall. What was your experience overall in tech 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.320 proper before you went to before you went to Netflix. Yeah, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.080 first of all, shout out to Lesbian's Who Tech. That's 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.000 actually one of the first places I ever spoke at, 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.080 and so it was a very foundational experience for me. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.120 But so this is the thing that's interesting. So one 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.039 of the difficulties of working in tech is that I 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.480 said it was safer than any other company I had 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.560 worked at. And so there's a nuance there because just 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.920 because it's safer doesn't mean that it's actually where it's 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.880 supposed to be if you actually want a place that 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:28.400 supports LGBTQ plus people, black people, Latin X people, Asian people. Also, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.440 from an international perspective, the company was rapidly expanding, and 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.440 so if you think about it, the you can culture 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.280 and so you can't stand for the United States and 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.280 Canada drastically different than what's going on the LASTAMP, drastically 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.000 different than what's going on in me a drastically different 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.160 that was going on an apack. And I was uniquely 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.760 situated to understand that complexity because I was the elected 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.880 leader of both Black app which is one of the 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.720 largest ergs at Netflix, and I also was a part 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.680 of elected to be the co lead for trans Start, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.080 which is one of the smaller ARGs but a very 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.840 powerful voice. And so what would happen is is that 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.920 the people who are part of these ards would come 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.279 to me constantly about their experiences, and so I would 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.480 hear like everything from oh, this is the most heartwarming, 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.920 best story ever, like your manager is so great, to 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.080 holy crap, what is going on over there? Like why 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.719 is this happening here? And so that's part of this 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.560 conversation too. You know, everyone seems to think that this 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.440 is about the special, but it's not about the special. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.400 It's about externally, what kind of content is being put 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.680 out there, and how can we make sure that content 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:42.159 represents diverse lives and specifically for trans start trans lives, 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.880 And if you were to ask me from the black perspective, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:49.120 also black lives right, especially dark skinned lives right, darc 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.400 and black people's lives. Like every single employee who was 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:54.960 a diverse person, I bet that if you actually asked them, 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.839 they would say racially, not really hitting the mark on 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.960 some of our content, based on my experiences. So that's 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:02.920 one part of it, and the second part of it 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.160 is from an internal perspective, it's like, oh, like you know, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.680 Netflix is safer and better than pretty much every other 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.440 company we've worked at. However, because of the Netflix culture 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:19.320 values and concepts, like freedom and responsibility. Like freedom and 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.240 responsibility essentially says that you're supposed to do what's best 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.440 for Netflix, Like that's one hundred percent what it is. 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.040 Is like, even if it's not like a being on 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.760 the bean path type thing that someone else may do, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.040 you have the freedom and the responsibility to go out 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:39.320 and do that thing because it's the best thing for Netflix. However, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.480 one of the things I noticed in my capacity is 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.239 rd LEAD is that that concept was misapplied or applied 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.640 differently depending on certain types of people. And in fact, 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.080 one of the big arguments that I'd had with many people, 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.120 when I'd brought up many times is is that it 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.360 needs to be taken from freedom of responsibility to freedom 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.240 and accountability. Right, you know, if someone if if a 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.440 colleague does if one colleague does this and they're a 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.400 white sister and or man, and another colleague does this 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.240 and that as a black sister and or woman, and 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.920 she gets fired because someone says that she used to 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.320 use bad judgment even though she was working within the 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:23.680 funeral responsibility a spectrum, and he does not, then there's 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.120 a problem with the company. And so ultimately it's this 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:33.400 internal battle saying if these cultural values are true, they 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:35.600 need to be applied the same way to every single 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.840 person who works in Netflix. And that makes sense, you know, 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.400 And that makes sense because I think that I think 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.360 across industries there is a reckoning that is happening right now. There, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.160 I believe, and I've had continue to have this conversation 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.679 with different folks about there being a workers a worker's 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.400 revolution that is happening right now. There are so many 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.640 different strikes, different walkouts that are being experienced right now 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.160 that large corporations are trying to figure out, well, what 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.320 are what do we do? And you know, what do 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.040 we do we treat people with dignity and respect? What 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.320 do we do we pay people what they're worth? Like, 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:18.040 there's a reason why this is collectively happening as we're 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.880 still grappling with a pandemic that cost people a lot 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.240 of not only their lives but also their livelihoods and 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.800 people and having the time right whether privileged time or not, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.760 to recognize, you know, I'm not treated well, I'm not 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.760 paid enough for this type of for this type of abuse, 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:41.720 right um. And I think two particularly, we look to 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.600 we look to big tech right as as the barometer 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.719 by which different firms and companies should be acting. It 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:57.239 was the open campus model came because across different industries 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.520 because of big tech, like you know, being able to 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:05.120 give your employees different types of benefits right that would 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.520 help them feel valued and seen that came from Silicon 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.200 Valley and this approach to how do we get the 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.360 best talent right? And then recognizing well, when we say 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.040 best talent, who were we actually talking about when the 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:25.200 diversity is not is not there across the board. I 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.920 want to switch gears now to the present moment that 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:35.760 Netflix has itself in. When you first saw or heard 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:44.040 about this Chappelle special, what were your initial reactions? Yeah, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.480 so you know, a few days before the special came out, 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.360 I got an email basically giving me a heads up 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.760 saying the special is coming out, and I was just like, oh, 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.840 is it like typical? You know? I was like, you know, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.560 I know it's going to be some stuff that people 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.199 in my community won't like. And also, to be clear, 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.000 so I identify as trans, non binary, but I also 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.360 was socialized as a black woman, right, and so I 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.079 have a lot of empathy and I get very upset 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.120 when people disrespect black women. And so that's another reason 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.480 for me for the special. I was like, is he 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.800 also got talking about women in a derogatory manner like 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.600 those those types of things, And they're like, yeah, kind of. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:25.640 And and then came out and the special came out 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.680 on October fifth, and I didn't I didn't watch it 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.080 at the time, but on October sixth, that's when we 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:35.160 started seeing like the news reports and then you know 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:39.480 about like the turf mentioning turf uh mis gendering people. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.160 And so then a bunch of us actually looked at 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.600 the transcript because you know, one of the things about 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.480 working in company like Netflix is you don't want to 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:49.520 watch it, right because you're feeding into the algorithm, you're 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.280 feeding into the number of views. And so we read 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.439 the transcript and we were frankly horrified, right, I mean, 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.320 he actually starts off with like something that's borderline anti semitic, 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:01.640 and then you know, he just kind of continues to 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.920 go and offend as many different groups as you possibly 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.480 can and then spending like a large portion of it 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:13.240 on transphobic content. Um and it might take was, wow, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.440 this is so much worse than I could have ever imagined, Like, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.840 you know, this is it's like if the last special 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.280 was not good. This special is just like, Holy cow, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.559 how did we not think strategically about what this might 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:35.040 actually do to the internal and external reputation of Netflix? Hm? Hm, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:40.160 you know there there has been so much commentary, uh 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.079 since the special has aired. Um the cover that many 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:49.600 people want to provide comedians because they are positioned, you know, 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.640 in society as the jester for you know, for for 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.280 for all intensive purposes, the jester that brings to light 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.280 and saw finds the blow in many ways of a 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.640 lot of societal ills, right, things that we will not 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.839 talk about or that are uncomfortable to talk about. If 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.800 you put a laugh track to it, it makes it 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:17.760 easier to digest. What's your response to that argument around 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:23.680 Chappelle's special? So, first and foremost, you know, I talk 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.040 to other people who typically like his specials, and some 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.080 of the things they said was this didn't feel as funny, right, 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:35.079 And because that's why I hesitate to say it myself, 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:37.000 because like, the last time I really liked a lot 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:38.959 of Chappelle stuff was to Chappelle the first two seasons 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:43.200 of Chappelle Show. So like, I'm not obviously the audience 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.840 for his specials, but talking to other people, they were 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.160 like I really struggled with it, Like I was just like, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.200 can you make some jokes? Like why are we still 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.240 talking about you know, trans people, right? And these are 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.800 people who like to laugh with him, and so for me, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.160 I just thought, I was like, how are you missing 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.280 the point here? And also, as a part as a 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.280 proud member of the LGBTQ plus community, I could go 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.760 to a drag show every night and hear way more controversial, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.080 inappropriate things that will have me peeing in my seat 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.240 because it's hilarious. Because we know that comedy can be great, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.880 especially when you know what you're talking about. Now, when 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.880 you know what you're talking about, you can make something. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.680 So you can make something so terrible and difficult and 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.720 uncomfortable and say it in such a way that I 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.120 will laugh. At the same time, questioned myself like maybe 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:37.560 why am I laughing? Yeah? You know, but it's like, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.480 but that's the thing, and that's where that's what we want, right, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:45.840 Like we want this comedy to be so amazingly done 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.560 that we laugh, right. And so you know, one of 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.760 the biggest parts of the special that I thought was 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.760 missing is and and is that you know, I'm black 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.920 and I'm trans. I'm black and I'm a lesbian. You know, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.520 the Special seems to have this supposition that the LGBTQ 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.400 plus community is essentially adjacent to the white supremacist community, 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:13.640 so LGBTQ plus means white and that trans people, and 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.240 then separately that the civil rights movement the black people 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.240 somehow are being hurt completely by the LGBTQ plus movement. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.600 And I'm like, well, in that case, then by the 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.960 trans of property, I am being destroyed by both movements, right, 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.480 because at no point does he acknowledge that people like 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.240 me even exist, right, And I think that that's one 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.520 of the things that also again when you know what 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.120 you're talking about, perhaps that could have changed his entire 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.200 set because he would have been like, well, but you know, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.960 I know, people like be exists. And because of that, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.520 I probably need to think about this more strategically, about 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.200 the overarching point that I'm trying to make so that 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.560 I can actually be funny and well said in this 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:09.760 special versus completely ebracing this super the super small group 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:15.000 of individuals who are harmed a much higher rate than 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.320 virtually every other community in this country. Yeah, I you know, 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:24.680 as as a black lesbian. I'm watching this special and 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.680 there was one point where I was just like, so, 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.080 do you not understand that people live at multiple intersections 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.800 of identities? And you know, while you can be I 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:43.000 will say that he was valid in saying that they're like, oh, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.920 can gay people be racist? But in his mind he 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.560 was really thinking white gaze? Can white gaze be racist? 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.640 But instead of he was making gay synonymous with whiteness, 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.240 which is largely part of the problem. And what invisibilizes 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.560 the rest of us, right is when is when that 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:07.000 assumption is made from the jump? And you know, I 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.159 what also stood out for me, and I want to 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.760 ask you this was this this feeling that it was 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:22.960 necessary to establish a hierarchy like the oppression the oppression Olympics, right, 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:28.640 and to do it again without any nuance or understanding 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.320 of those that live at the intersection of multiple communities. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.600 And so I'm like, of course, there's racism in the 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.800 lgbt Q plus community. I have worked in this movement 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.159 for well over a decade. I can tell you firsthand 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.080 stories about like where the money comes from, and like 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:48.960 who gets to decide what is important and who is 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.480 important and when money drives up in one area. Why 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.360 that is and who are some of the most transphobic 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:00.600 people that I've come into interfacing with our other members 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.440 of the LGB community that are some of the most 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.159 transphobic people. And again, if you have a deep understanding, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.520 more so than the shallow puddle from which I believe 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.359 he was operating from, then you would be able to 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:20.680 have a lot more your jokes would be sharper, right exactly, exactly, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.920 like if nothing else, Like I would like to hang 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.680 out with Dave Chappelle so that I could educate him, 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.960 so that he really can make me laugh, right right, 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.080 Like that's the whole goal, Like, you know, how do 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.679 we educate people? And that's the whole point, because like 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.040 it was never about taking down the special it was 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.040 about creating purity and content so that people could understand 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.639 the context for which he was talking. Like for instance, 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.320 you know, I've spent a lot of time explaining the 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.160 term turf to people, you know, over the past week, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.080 and they were like what they were like, is this 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.600 the grass? I was like, no, it's not the grass. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.840 It's not this is like these are trans exclusionary radical 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.760 feminists and what's dangerous about these people, and what's dangerous 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:06.159 about someone like Dave Chappelle endorsing them is the simple 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.359 fact of one, they don't think trans women or women. 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.400 They think many trans men and trans mont binary people 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.520 are just like confused women who have been harmed or 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.800 hurt in some way and can't make their own adult decisions, 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.199 which is like very strange to me. And then they 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:27.080 also have they literally tear women down to this concept 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.840 of like menistruation or being able to biologically have a child. 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.480 And we know every single day people who are born 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.240 as women are also particular, there's a lot of women 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.760 who are also born who can never have children. So 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.560 does that mean that any of those women are not women? Right? 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.320 And so this ideology is not only harmful to the 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.720 trans community, it's harmful to the overall women's movement. Right. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.040 The women's movement is being set back by this unintelligent 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.959 conversation that's happening from this group of people who are 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.119 full of hate. And so that's the type of nuance. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.399 Like I would love if Netflix, you know, founded, like 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.359 you know, found a documentary that maybe already this or 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.200 commissioner documentary that explain terms, you know, I would love 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.520 to see a POSE esque show on Netflix. Give me 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.160 six seasons of a show that that's like Pose on Netflix, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:22.159 and maybe I would like I would just be like, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.359 you know what, I didn't even get mad about the 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.119 Chappelle's Special because there's a there's another piece of content 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.720 that I can go to that I can point people 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.919 to that shows trans lives in the fullness of trans 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.800 lives right there. And that's the real point of this 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.080 is that you cannot show one side of it that 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.359 it's wrong, like right, cannot cannot say that enough it's wrong, 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.000 it's inaccurate, it's not the right information, and then not 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.399 also show the competing side. I mean, we do it 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.919 for presidential elections. You can't. You can't have one person 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.520 from one party, one person who's running for an office, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.679 on one channel and not give the other person or 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.640 other people the chance to speak their peace. And all 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.240 were asking is for media companies to invest in that. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.320 So talk to talk to me about UM, the walkout 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.560 that that happened and the important list of demands that 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:22.120 were that were put up UM to the two Netflix 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.119 to the president of Netflix. Yeah, so first and foremost, UM, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.600 initially it was not going to be a walkout. So 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:30.639 initially it was just supposed to be a trans date 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.320 of rest, like an opportunity for you know, the trans 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.879 people who had been deeply affected by this, because I 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.320 could tell that it was a major emotional, you know, 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.760 toll on people. Um, it was supposed to just be 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.280 you know, at the trans day of rest, and then 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.439 our colleagues who were not trans were supposed to educate 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:55.520 themselves and look at different ways to support the trans community. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.760 But the problem is then all of Ted's emails came 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:04.320 out and text emails were progressively worse and worse and worse. 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.000 And so then I took a vote of the trans 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:13.360 you know community and asked them, hey, you know, I'm 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:15.680 starting to think maybe this should be a walkout. What 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.560 do you think? And it was an overwhelming vote saying yes, 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:21.680 you know, we think that that, you know, we would 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.960 like to have this be a walkout. And then so 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.919 on October fourteenth, at about like, you know, three or 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.880 four pm, I posted in the public channel saying, hey, 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.320 f why this is now a walkout? This is why, 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:36.320 you know, we feel like we need to walk out, 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:43.280 And that's how it became a walkout. So why were 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.640 you fired, or why do you why do you why 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.920 do you believe that Netflix terminated you after a year 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.480 and seven months. So I will say that this is 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:58.000 what they told me. So October fourteenth, I said, hey, 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.399 let's have a walkout, and then by seven pm that 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:06.159 day I was terminated for essentially what they said was 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:11.240 the likelihood that I leaked sensitive and confidential information and 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.879 was this the president's emails? No, that this is the 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:19.960 data the data in the Bloomberg article. They were like, 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:23.639 it's likely that you did, because you you access this information. 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:29.000 And my response was yes, I did access that information 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.000 in support of the initiatives that we were putting together 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:37.600 to support our argument for diversifying the content on Netflix. Now, 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:41.040 what's really interesting is is in that conversation they were like, well, 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.399 but we also saw that you forwarded other emails in 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.720 different times outside of Netflix. And I was like, are 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:50.960 those all too, Alissa Pagels And they were like, yeah, 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:53.119 well or they didn't necessarily say yeah, but they were like, 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:54.879 I mean we could double check, and I was like, 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:59.479 that's my wife. I was like, I forwarded those emails 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:02.680 to my life and and and at the time they 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:04.960 were like, oh, by the way, it's a fireball offense 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:09.600