WEBVTT - Session 454: Black Single Mothers 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.320 conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.480 decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.600 of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:32.040 a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.600 to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.440 at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.479 love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.400 not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:57.240 a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.280 for joining me for session four or fifty four of 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.440 the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:15.279 our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Black single 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.560 mothers have long been the subject of stereotypes, political debate, 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.800 and cultural criticism for decades. Narratives in media and public 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.479 discourse have framed them as the root of social problems, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.320 rather than recognizing the complex realities of their lives, families, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.360 and communities. But the truth is far more nuanced. Black 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.679 single mothers have always been central to the strength and 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.000 survival of Black communities, Their caregivers, leaders, and culture shapers, 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.200 often raising children, supporting extended family members, and contributing to 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.240 their communities in powerful ways. Today's guest is writer and 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.280 cultural critic Jamila Lemieux, whose work has helped shape conversations 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.480 about race, gender, and culture for more than a decade. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:59.280 Beginning our career in the Black feminist blockisphere, Jamila has 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.640 written in edit for many major publications and has become 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.880 known for her short cultural commentary and advocacy for Black 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.920 women and girls. In our conversation, Jamila joins us to 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.400 discuss her new book, Black Single Mother, where she explores 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.560 the realities of single motherhood through her own story as 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.160 well as the stories of other Black women. We talk 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.200 about the stigma attached to single mothers, the importance of 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.160 community and cool parenting, how media narratives shape perceptions of 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.680 black families, and what it means to redefine family structures 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:33.919 outside of traditional expectations. If something resonates with you while 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.160 enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.280 using the hashtag TBG in session, or join us over 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.880 in our patreons to talk more about the episode. You 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.120 can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:55.560 Here's our conversation. Heyja Vila, thank you so much for 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:56.200 joining us. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.120 Hi, thank you for having me. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.080 I'm very excited to share with you. I'm a longtime 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.520 fan of your writing, so I'm very excited to talk 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.919 with you more about your work and about the upcoming book. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:06.679 Thank you. 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.200 I'm a longtime fan of yours too, So. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.000 For people who may not be super familiar, can you 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.040 talk to us in your own words about what your 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:15.560 work is and what you write about. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.800 Yeah, I'm a writer primarily in the service of black 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.919 women and girls. My professional writing career started around two 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:28.600 thousand and eight, and I was an early member of 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:33.400 the Black Feminist Blog, a sphere that really shifted on 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:40.120 an offline discourse about gender and identity, and I worked 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.880 as an editor for some years. I've edited many of 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:48.160 your favorite writers, and I am releasing my first book, 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:49.400 Black Single Mother. 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.440 Yeah. You have written probably lots of pieces that people 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.320 are familiar with, maybe in theme, but don't necessarily know 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.760 that it was your writing. And because your work has 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.119 covered such a va it's like a variety of topics, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.240 I'm curious to know how did the topic for the 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.600 book become the thing you were going to write your 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:08.320 first book about. 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:12.000 Well, it's interesting. I worked with the literary agent Tanya 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.279 McKinnon for at least five years before we settled down 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:21.560 on a topic for this book. I had rejected suggestions 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.720 that I should write about black single motherhood because I 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.840 was afraid that if I put my name behind it 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.800 in that way. And I had written about being a 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.400 single mom and essays and talked about it openly on 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.400 social media. It's something about publishing a book on the 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.800 subject to me, felt like that's going to mean that 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.640 I'm a black single mother forever and ever, when that's 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.640 not what I've wanted for myself. I've wanted to be married, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.600 I've wanted to have an additional child. And so finally 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.119 Tanya convinced me that this was a book that needed 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.480 to exist and that I had a story that needed 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.520 to be told. And I'm very happy that I decided 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.000 to embark upon that journey. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.240 Do you talk in the book about like the urgency 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.599 that you failed when you had your baby to be 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.880 partnered right to erase this scarlet letter? Can you talk 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.320 a little bit about that urgency? And as women, we 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.080 often will kind of give ourselves to the validation of 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.200 what other people think we should have as opposed to 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:17.880 what we actually want for ourselves. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.479 Yes, no, I felt that, like, Okay, I'm a single mom, 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.400 she's got a great dad. But I somehow have to 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.480 fix this. I need to find a partner, I need 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.440 to get married, I need to wreck fy my mistake. 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.800 I believe that for a while. But I say this, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.600 at no point in my life, pree motherhood or afterwards, 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.440 have I ever truly settled when it came to a 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.560 committed relationship. So as much as I wanted to be married, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.680 I wasn't willing to just be with anyone or to 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.520 accept somebody who wouldn't have been a great partner and 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.080 a great stepdad, a great friend to me. So theoretically 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.560 I felt like I needed to hurry up and do this, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.720 but in reality I took my time and looked forward 0:05:58.800 --> 0:05:59.680 suitable mate. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.920 And what do you have to say about I mean, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.440 the book really talks about this in depth, but what 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.279 would you have to say about like just the ways 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.280 that black single mothers are portrayed, especially in our community. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.600 I mean there's just been this pervasive messaging in media 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:19.680 from politicians, from preachers for a very long time, suggesting 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.719 that black single mothers are somehow responsible for the challenges 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.920 in the Black community, responsible for the marriage rate, that 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.599 we are the architects of our challenges and it's just 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.440 simply not trip. Outcomes for the children of single parents 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:43.520 are largely tied to economics. So where people are economically challenged, 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.680 their children are going to face certain challenges. That stands 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.360 whether those parents are married or not. Black single mothers 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:55.280 at every class level have played a very important role 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.400 in the community, have sustained the children of the community, 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.760 are oftentimes tasked for elders and other relatives in the community, 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:06.240 and I think we should be celebrated for the heroines 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:11.360 that we are as opposed to castigated for somehow harming 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:11.920 our people. 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.680 How do you feel like becoming a mom has changed 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.040 the way that you work in like the ways that 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.240 you critique, the things that you critique. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.239 I will say this stage your motherhood, having a thirteen 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.800 year old versus the early stages of my motherhood, I 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.560 think it's made me more empathetic. It thinks it's made 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.000 me more patient, and it's made me want to be 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.080 really precise with my words. I don't want to hurt people. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.880 I don't want to upset them unnecessarily. I want to 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.000 regard people with kindness and understanding to the extent to 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.080 which they deserve it. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.920 Yeah, I follow your social media rants often because I'm 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.840 also a mother in the trenches of middle school parenting, 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.400 and that is often when it feels like, how do 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.000 you feel like you have changed and what have you 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.680 learned about yourself as your little one has grown. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:07.880 I'm even more aware of my own humanity and fallibility 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.360 that I am literally just a girl trying to figure 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.840 it out. I may be very influential and important this 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.560 person's life, but I'm a person too, So sometimes I 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:21.080 fall short. Sometimes I say the wrong thing. I apologize 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.640 to my child. I try to hold myself accountable. Let 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.560 her see me holding myself accountable. I think many of us, 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.920 as children, think that somehow our parents have all the answers. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:34.319 And now I'm very clear that my parents, just like 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.280 myself and you, we're making it up as we. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.720 Go along, just trying to do the very best that 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.360 we can. So we've already talked about your long end 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.040 story career, and because of some of the things that 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.480 you write about, I think, well, I know it has 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.439 made you the target for lots of backlash, lots of 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.440 hate speech, and a text and cyber target. How have 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.680 you maintained your mental health and protected your mental health 0:08:58.679 --> 0:08:59.280 in the face of. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.720 This times where it took a toll on the I'm 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.600 not as active on social media as I once was. 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.400 I did take some time away to kind of not 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.120 engage with that level of vitrioll and abuse for a while, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.439 but I'll stay to light throughout it all. I've always 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.599 been convinced that I'm correct. I think I know what 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.559 I'm talking about. I think I'm right, so I feel 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.600 you can attack me if you want to. But nobody's 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.920 ever challenged any of my opinions. Nobody's ever said anything 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.040 in an attack sort of way that made me think 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.440 differently about anything, So they haven't succeeded. 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.680 And much of your work really comes from a lens 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.000 of kind of examining pop culture and like the media 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.760 that we consume and how that provides larger messages. Why 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.160 do you think the lens of pop culture is often 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.319 so focused only on the struggles of black mothers as 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.360 opposed to the joys in the triumphs of black single 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:51.880 mother I. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.480 Think there are a lot of decision makers in media, black, white, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:01.240 and otherwise who are coming from a place of bias 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.920 and ignorance when it comes to the multi fasted lives 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.079 of black women. Black women more specifically are and particularly 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.600 black single mothers. From what I've come across, there's a 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.520 lot of people that are making TV shows in Hollywood 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.000 that grew up upper middle class, that are coming from 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.600 two parent households and perceive that that is the only 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:26.240 way that a black family can be effective or successful, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.880 and so they're doing what they know. They're reflecting what 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.319 they know, but unfortunately what they know does not reflect 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:33.520 the community at which we live. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:35.720 And going back a little bit too, the things that 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.200 you have shared online, has there been a cost to 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.520 you of sharing the messy your points right? Like you 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.680 are very honest about parenting online, has there been a 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.120 cast to sharing those things? 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:50.280 I don't know. I mean, if there are opportunities or 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.679 things that I've missed out on because of my honesty, 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:57.800 I was never aware of it. I've wondered, has there 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.760 ever been a man I dated who who decided he 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.880 didn't want to deal with me? Or somebody I might 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.400 have had a crush on who was turned off by 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.880 that I think that's possible, but it's never been presented 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.040 to me directly. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:23.920 More from our conversation after the break. In a letter 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.679 to your own mom, you asked, how could littelone me 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.319 be the center of anyone's universe? How has your perspective 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.440 shifted since Naima is in the world, and how have 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.000 you balanced like being the center of her universe while 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:37.600 also wanting to be the center of your words? 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:43.040 You know, I have so much admiration and gratitude for 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.720 how my mother raised me, but I have chosen to 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:51.200 operate differently in terms of just having a fuller life 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:56.920 outside of motherhood, having a career that I'm passionate about, dating, socializing. 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.680 I recognized that my mother and I became mothers a 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.440 very different stages of life, under very different circumstances. Like 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.800 I want Naima to see me as a possibility model. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.199 That want her to know that, Oh God, I don't 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:13.880 want to misquote this person, so I won't say it, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.640 but I just want her to know that motherhood is 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.240 not the end of anything, that it can be the 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.720 beginning of so many things, so many experiences, and I've 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.360 just done my best many times, I've fallen short. For 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.440 the most part, I think I've done a pretty good 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.360 job of making sure that she's the heart and center 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:37.000 of everything. But everything is more expansive than just the 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:38.240 relationship I have with her. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.200 And how do you feel like that is going. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.600 I think it's going well. There have been times where 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.080 she said, I wish I could just have both my 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.040 parents at the same time. And it's not that we 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.920 don't do things together, but we don't do everything together right. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.560 You know, times where she's wanted to be a one 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.880 household but it was her day at another. So it's 0:12:55.920 --> 0:13:00.200 not always easy. I think overwhelmingly, I in her father 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.280 have done a really good job of giving her the 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:04.480 best of each of us. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.120 So there's a section of your book called the Multiverse 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.839 where you have brought in the stories of lots of 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.600 different single black moms. Why was that important for you 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:12.840 to do? 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.160 Because you know, it's funny because this the book I wrote, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.439 was not the book I sold. I had originally envisioned 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.440 chapters that had particular things that they related to the 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.360 lives of black women, and that I would talk to 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.760 a lot of experts, But when it came time to 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.680 sit down and write, I realized the primary experts on 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.199 Black single motherhood and their experiences are going to be 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.160 Black single moms. And some of these women are women 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.320 I probably would have talked to you anyway, right like 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.160 Yaba Bla or Toronto Burke or Tinya Fields. But some 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.760 of them are women who I've known or grew up with, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.920 or just in my community who had interesting single motherhood stories. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.280 And I feel that as a single mother, and as 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.880 a child of a single mother, I am privileged in 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.520 a number of ways. I had an active dad. My 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.040 daughter has a much more active dad than I did. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.360 Active as a spectrum, and it comes to dad's active, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.440 it was certainly on a spectrum. But I had a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.360 very present father, and my daughter has a very active dad. 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.880 And that's not always the case. It's something I was 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.840 keenly aware of as a kid. I had so many 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.360 friends who just didn't have fathers. And so because my 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.120 daughter has a great dad, I have help, I have support. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.360 I'm not doing it every day by myself. And I've 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:32.680 also worked in media. I'm light complexion and college trained 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.920 and I've been on TV. Like in certain ways, I've 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.160 just had certain privileges that other Black single mothers have not, 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.280 so I didn't feel that one woman's story, or even 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.160 just my story and my mother's story were sufficient for 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.000 me to effectively talk about what it means to be 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.320 a single black mother. I needed to talk to other 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.160 women who were having different experiences and overlapping experiences. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.240 And what do you feel like you learned from having 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.320 all of those other stories included. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.400 The firms and like, what we all have in common 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.240 is this deep abiding love for our children, just this 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.680 willingness to do whatever it takes, whatever they need to 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.520 keep them happy and fed and loved. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.440 You talk publicly about the move that you made from 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.440 New York to Los Angeles and how you were making 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.560 that decision with being a mom in mine right. There 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.000 are also, I think many other of our listeners who 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.320 are considering, like, oh, do I make a move and 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.680 now I'm considering my child's life. What suggestions or advice 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.080 might you have for somebody who's considering a similar move. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.080 Do not move to a place where you do not 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:42.400 have a village unless there is some life altering, fabulous 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:47.880 opportunity that is guaranteed, right Like I was fortunate I 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.560 came here. I had a cousin who has since passed away. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.200 Who is here? I have my daughter's father and stepmother, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.080 and that was basically it. I did not have many 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.000 friends here. I had some acquaintances here. The job that 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.840 I was supposed to come here and do disappeared as 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.560 soon as I got here. So if I had it 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.280 to do over again, the only reason I would still 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.680 do it is because of where I am now six 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.280 and a half years later. But six and a half 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.480 years is a long time to struggle and to be 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.520 figuring things out and trying to make friends, and the 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.360 dating scene here sucks, so taking to consideration who's going 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.800 to be around you. I was lucky that my daughter's 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.840 father was also here. This was a joint relocation. I 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.560 would have never moved if I didn't have my co 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.240 heir in here. And even again, it's just like I 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.160 didn't have friends. I didn't have people who cared about me, 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.440 didn't have OJEF, I didn't have anything. So if you 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.560 got a couple friends in Atlanta and you're thinking about 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.840 going from DC to Atlanta, cool. If you don't know 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.960 about any Atlanta, just know that in most places it 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.000 is hard as an adult to start over and meet 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.480 new people. Just really think about what you need in 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.200 your life to feel happy and successful somewhere, and dating 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.480 if that's something that matters to you, and I know 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.760 it doesn't matter to all single moms, but if it 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.159 is something that is a priority to you, take some 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.560 time to find out what dating looks like in the 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:15.560 place that you're going to. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.040 That's something that you've been sharing more about, like your 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.719 dating adventures. What would you say about dating as a 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.639 single mom and things that you might suggest us share 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:25.359 with other people. 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.199 It's been an interesting journey. I will say again, I 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.399 think it's been easier for me because I have a 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:35.800 great co parent, But like I was a soldier of love. 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.359 I put a lot of time and effort and energy 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.959 into meeting somebody. And if that's something you want to do, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.760 I think understand how much space in your life do 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.919 you have to give to it, how much does it 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.600 matter to you. It will be more challenging than dating 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.520 as a person without a child, but not impossible. You 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.400 very well may find what you want And what. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.520 Kinds of considerations have you made in terms of like 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.280 when people met Naima. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.280 Only two people have met Naima, so they would have 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.280 to be my boyfriend. We would have to be in 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.680 a committed relationship where we're talking about the future and 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.480 the potential of expanding my family. It wouldn't just be 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.040 somebody who's like, he's cool. Theated a guy for like 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.560 seven months, he never met Naima. It would have never 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.840 been appropriate for him to me Naima the guy she 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.359 has met. I wasn't with them for seven months when 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.000 they met her, but I had it been that long, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.119 but I knew this is somebody who's going to be 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.080 in my life. And the first person I introduced her 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.040 to he was long distance, so it wasn't necessarily like, Okay, 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:34.960 because you've met him, you're going to see him all 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.080 the time. But he had a big role in my life. 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.879 Man and I cultivated a relationship between them. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.040 So you mentioned in terms of the move, you should 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.200 not move anywhere where you do not have a village. 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.000 And I think that there are also people who are 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.480 thinking about, like, Okay, I want to build my family, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.199 Like there are all kinds of technology and advances in 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.040 medicine that allow people to build a family even if 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.280 you do not have a traditional partnership. What suggestions do 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.040 you have for people about how to start building their 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.800 village and like cultivating a community that will help to 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:05.880 care for you and your child. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.280 You know, I'll talk to people. One of the moms 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.280 did I interview in the book, Ayana Bird, had a 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.120 child on her own as a single parent from Birds 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.800 and moved to another country. And she's happy and they're thriving. 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:23.080 So everyone is different. But I think, be honest about 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.640 what do you need? Can you do this in isolation? 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.960 Will you be okay? Some moms. I think my mom 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.120 is one of them. Largely it was just me and her, 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.359 and I think that was amazing for her. But if 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.719 you need something else, if you need somebody to come 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.600 hold that baby a few hours a week, then you 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.320 should think about bringing a child into the world under 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.359 the circumstances in which you can comfortably raise them. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.199 And in your work, you've talked a lot about like 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.960 shifting from a Eurocentric construction of family back to one 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.240 that is more based in the African matriarchy. What does 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.040 that look like in like the practical data da Scent. 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.320 Remember that like matriarchy doesn't send her mother's the center 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.080 of children, you know. I mean, so it's about like 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:07.159 creating systems and communities that we need to ensure that 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.280 everyone has what they need right, not just children, not 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.040 just women, but everyone. But like being intentional, like being 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.240 a girl's girl, supporting other women, showing up for mothers 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.720 before you become one, showing up your girlfriends, not thinking 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.199 that because you're in a relationship now, you don't need 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.840 to go see your girls, go pick your single girl 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.320 up from the airport at midnight, because somebody needs to 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.200 do that. I think this shift toward matriarchy that we're 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.240 saying the very least on social media and people talking 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.320 about like what that means is essential to the survival 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.520 of Black people because this is where we come from. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.560 Women led doesn't mean that there's no role for men, right, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.160 and that men are not leaders and important and essential 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.640 to what we're doing. But I think we do need 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:59.080 to return to this foundation that we have of women 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.719 being loved and supported and trusted as leaders and in 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.040 many ways the moral compass of our people. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.680 Why do you think there has been so much hesitance 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.760 in resistance to that kind of frame. 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:16.359 It's white supremacist patriarchy. We've been indoctrinated, We've been told 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:17.919 that the only way to be a family is with 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:19.720 the man in the front, the woman in the bag. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.480 We're emulating our oppressor and what we've seen him do, 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.400 so we're not necessarily thinking first about loving healthy relationships. 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.040 We're thinking about a man on the top woman underneath him, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.920 and that definitely just doesn't reflect who we are as 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.880 a people and what our experiences have been. And when 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.960