1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,959 Speaker 1: wherever you talk through some of the big life changes 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: our psychology. Hello everyone, welcome back to the podcast for 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: a new episode, a new week, New listeners, old listeners. 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: Great to have you here to discuss a really interesting 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: topic today, one that has been on my mind for 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: a while, and I thought it would be interesting just 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: for my own personal knowledge, but for maybe anyone who's 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: listening to do a little bit of a deep dive 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: into this topic. And we have just one major question 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 1: to answer today, one question I really want to get 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: to the bottom of, and it's have does taking hormonal 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: birth control in our twenties influence our psychological experience and wellbeing? 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, is it worth it? 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: Should we be given more information when we make that decision? 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: And what do we need to know about the interactions 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: between taking hormonal birth control and our general wellbeing and 19 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: how we experience the world and our emotional reactions in 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: our twenties. So a super interesting topic, super interesting to research. 21 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: There's so many different thoughts and it was a bit 22 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: of an effort to discern fact from fiction. I think 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: anytime we talk about women's reproductive health, it gets a 24 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: little bit messy. There's often a lot of subjective information 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: that we have to overlook. So yeah, there'll be heaps 26 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: of really nuanced discussions in this episode that I hope 27 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: you enjoy. And thank you to my wonderful friends Make 28 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: and also Make Yes two lovely mans for suggesting this 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: topic or some version of it. I have really wanted 30 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: to discuss this on the pod for some time, but 31 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: like I said, it did require a little bit of research, 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: and I think it might be slightly controversial in the 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: eyes of some, so I really wanted to tread with 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: some care but still do it justice. I think personally 35 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: from the rhetoric I see online and even in my 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: daily life, birth control can come with a lot of 37 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: opinions attached to it, as do many topics related to 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: female reproduction and female bodies. So implanting this episode, I 39 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: really wanted to dispel some myths and discuss it from 40 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: the perspective that we always take, which is a psychological one. 41 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: So let's jump straight in and yeah, kind of get 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: to the bottom. Really, I don't know, just have a 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: nice discussion about what there is to consider when we 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: start taking hormone or birth control, and I think we 45 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: need to be honest. Most of us are having sex 46 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: in our twenties, maybe casually or in a serious or 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: committed relationship, but sex and intimacy do form a big 48 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: element of most of our lives in our twenties. As 49 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: we test relationships, we figure out what we want and 50 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: quite frankly, just enjoy ourselves and have fun. But fun 51 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: and exploration and pleasure aren't the only parts of sex. 52 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: So as it's probably clear by now, in this episode, 53 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about birth control for people, mainly 54 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: for people with a vagina, but if you are someone 55 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: who identifies as male and who has sex with women 56 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: or those with a vagina, this episode is still very 57 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: much for you. It is a mutual responsibility both parties 58 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: responsibility to be concerned with reproductive health and the possibility 59 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: of not only pregnancy but also STDs when we are 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: engaging in consensual sex. And the use of hormonal birth 61 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: control for those who are having sex who are sexually 62 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: active is obviously a big thing to be considered, but 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: it should not be a simple consideration and I think 64 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: too Often when women go to their doctors at sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, 65 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: or whenever they become sexually active and ask about birth 66 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: control or are asked about whether they've considered it by 67 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: their doctor or what method they are on. The first 68 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: thing that's often suggested is hormonal birth control, normally the 69 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: pill and one that is issued in based it's easy, 70 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: it's effective, it's cheap, and I think that's often all 71 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: that we want, and we might not ask many further questions, 72 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: especially since we accept what our doctors have to say, 73 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: we trust them, and considering that the pill is so 74 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: socially accepted and prevalent, we probably know someone who is 75 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: already on it, especially if you're a young woman in 76 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: their teens or early twenties. But part of the conversation 77 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: that is normally not had in that kind of medical 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: context is the physical and psychological, emotional, mental side effects 79 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: that can last even beyond when you do seek alternative methods, 80 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: when you change birth control or stop it all together. 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: And that's what we're discussing today. How does the use 82 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: of hormone or birth control in our twenties shape our 83 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: psychological experiences and our well being? How does it impact 84 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: our relationship to our bodies. I know this is said 85 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: all the time, but like the natural cycle for a 86 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: woman follows a lot of cycles in nature, is that 87 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: something that's important to consider. Interrupting that cycle might remove 88 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: how in touch we are with the natural cycle of 89 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: our hormones and the natural cycle of the planets. I 90 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: know it sounds a little bit wishy washy, but this 91 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: was some of the stuff that came up when I 92 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,799 Speaker 1: was researching this and put all the cards on the table. 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to consider, so hopefully we 94 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: learn something today. I definitely did, so stick around. So 95 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: before we discuss the psychology of birth control, specifically birth 96 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: control that uses hormones like progression and estrogen, mainly the 97 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: daily pillars, kind of the focus of this episode, let's 98 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: do a bit of a history lesson and explain how 99 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: it is that hormonal birth control methods came to be 100 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: and how they work. So before we had this simple 101 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: and easy form of reproductive control, the daily pill modern 102 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: forms of birth control like latex condoms and uds, and 103 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: of course birth control pills, they're all still relatively new 104 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: in the context of general overall human history, but there 105 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: were things that came before it, and records from ancient 106 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: Greece and Egypt show that. I think control over reproduction 107 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: has been a concern for, you know, pretty much as 108 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: long as humans have been reproducing. Being able to have 109 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:12,119 Speaker 1: control over women's bodies, either for women or I guess 110 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: for women, or by others that are invested in women's 111 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: reproductive health has been something that's been on everyone's minds 112 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: for a while, and it is actually a big part 113 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: of history. I think we often tend to think that 114 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: only in the last one hundred years have methods become 115 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: available for women to have control over when they want 116 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: to have children if they want to fall pregnant. But 117 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: early birth control methods from around the world have been 118 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: around for some time, and I had a little look 119 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: into what some of these included because I thought it 120 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: would be really interesting. But of course we had condoms. 121 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: Often they were made from animal bladders or linen, or 122 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: silk or plants. I don't know if that sounds particularly pleasant, 123 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, I guess they had to do what they 124 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: had to do. Another really interesting one spermicides. So spermicides 125 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: essentially stopped the sperm from reaching an egg by killing 126 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: the sperm or by making it unable to swim. And 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: there were these really interesting kind of archaeological studies and 128 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: historical studies that found that some ancient cultures used to 129 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: make spermicides out of vacacia and honey and rock salt 130 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: and sometimes even like animal faces, and yeah, also doesn't 131 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: sound particularly pleasant. Some of the other ones that were 132 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: really interesting were sponges, like made of moss or bamboo 133 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: these and they would often be soaked in oil or 134 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: vinegar or lemon juice like substances that were believed to 135 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: slow down or weakened sperm, and there were even early 136 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: kind of suggestions of their being oral contraceptives often used 137 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: by nobility, including Queen Ann. So she used to take 138 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: lead yep and other toxic metals mixed within like pomegranate 139 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: seeds and papaya and silopium and blue cohercion and things 140 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: like that, and would consume them on a daily or 141 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: before she was like having sex, to prevent herself from 142 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: falling pregnant. So these don't sound like particularly fun methods 143 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: of birth control, and not only were they not very effective, 144 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: they could often be very dangerous, and sometimes it was 145 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: the choice of men, whether they were used so cheap, 146 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: easy accessible birth control that is within the women's control, 147 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: such as the oral contraceptive, has obviously now been championed 148 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: as a massive step forward for women's rights, big move 149 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: from stuffing sponges in lemon juice up there. Not to 150 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: be crude, but that kind of makes sense. Oral contraceptive 151 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: has really changed the kind of landscape around reproductive health. 152 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: It's now the personal, consistent choice of women over whether 153 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: they want to have children or for pregnant, and allows 154 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: them to kind of control the size of their families. 155 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: I think we hear all these stories about people having 156 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: ten fifteen children before hormonal birth control was invented, and 157 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: that sounds also pretty unpleasant. And I think before the 158 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: creation of the daily pill, women and people with a 159 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: vagina were often kind of subject to the whims of 160 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: their uterus and their cycles and didn't really have the 161 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: same level of control over their reproductive systems. It also 162 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: has to be said that it's a woman's choice often 163 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: whether she consumes the pill, and it's completely within her 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: control when she takes it if she wants to take 165 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: it in most cases, and that is something that has 166 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: only come up recently. Before it was kind of the 167 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: men's decision whether they wanted to control the size of 168 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: their families or prevent someone from falling pregnant. Hormonal birth control, 169 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: particularly the daily pill, It was pioneered by four people 170 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: in particular, and although they have contributed greatly to reproductive 171 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: rights for women, their personal beliefs and values don't really 172 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: paint them as kind of the feminist icons people serving 173 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: heroes that the history books often call them. There are 174 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: some details that are definitely overlooked that kind of murky 175 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: the waters a little bit. So Firstly, there was this 176 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: activist and sex educator. Her name was Margaret Sanger, and 177 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: she is often called the founder or creator of modern 178 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: day birth control. If you look up who was the 179 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: creator of the pill, her name will probably often come up, 180 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: and it will say something around the fact that she 181 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: was this huge advocate, she was this feminist, she was 182 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: pro sex. That all sounds really lovely, right, it sounds 183 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: like something we really get behind. But what is not 184 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: often known is that is kind of the way that 185 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: she was able to catalyze or activate science to pursue 186 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: this new technology, and that was by appealing to the 187 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: eugenics movement to advocate for birth control. Yes, eugenics. For 188 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: those of you who don't know what eugenics is, I'm 189 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: sure you've seen it in the history books in one 190 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: form or another. It is the study of how to 191 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: kind of arrange reproduction within a human population to increase 192 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: the incurrence of heritable characteristics that we see as desirable. Okay, 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,119 Speaker 1: So if that sounds off and a little bit gross, 194 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: you would be right. Other supporters of the eugenics movement 195 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: include Hitler, for example, in his extermination of Jewish people 196 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: and other populations. This can kind of be credited with 197 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: thoughts and ideas that he gathered from the eugenic movement, 198 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: and the idea that we want to be able to 199 00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: arrange the human population to be desirable. Some white surprise. 200 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: Hermiscy groups also still a big proponents of eugenics, So 201 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a particularly kind and moral group 202 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: to be a part of. But it also does make 203 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 1: sense that the people who would want to eliminate undesirable 204 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: characteristics and genes would be the first ones in support 205 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: of a form of medicine that allows them to control 206 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 1: in some ways and who cannot have children, So that 207 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: was kind of the group that Margaret was appealing to 208 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: there is the jury is still out over whether she 209 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: just saw it as a means to an end and 210 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: just wanted funding to pursue this new technology and she 211 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: thought it would really put the power back in the 212 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: hands of women. But that's kind of still up for debate. 213 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: And I think it's a very dark history when we 214 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: think about how common hormonal birth control and the daily 215 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: pill is now and how kind of unconsciously a lot 216 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: of women tend to take it without really knowing the 217 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: origin stories of this birth control method. But there are 218 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: other pioneers of kind of modern day hormone or birth control, 219 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: and these include the biologist and scientist Gregory Pinkers. This 220 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: suffragist and she was also a millionaire, Katherine mccomrick. She 221 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: was an heiress and is kind of credited with giving 222 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the financial backing to some of the 223 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: first early clinical trials. And then we have a Catholic 224 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: physician and a gynecologist also a scientist whose name was 225 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: John Rock and he helped conduct the first clinical trials. 226 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: So the research was kind of getting underway in the 227 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: forties as scientists realize that by increasing the rates of 228 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: certain hormones in primates but also in humans, they could 229 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: prevent ovulation and they could prevent people from falling pregnant. 230 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: But in nineteen fifty four, these two doctors, Pincers and Rock, 231 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: with the backing of our friend Catherine and the racist Margaret, 232 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: began their first trials in Massachusetts, and they were pretty small. 233 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: It was only on about fifty women. And like I said, 234 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: they had realized a little bit earlier that if we 235 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: increase the rates of estrogen and progresterone in our bodies, 236 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: the two main hormones that work on our reproductive system 237 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: and within our bodies, the following effects that it would 238 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: have on our internal systems and the reaction would help 239 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: prevent pregnancy. So this is how the pill works. When 240 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: we artificially increase the rates of estrogen and progresterone, these 241 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: hormones suppress the release of a follicle stimulating hormone and 242 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: the lutinizing hormone from the petuity ground in the female body. 243 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: So basically, these two hormones trigger the release of estrogen 244 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: from the ovaries, which in turn stimulates the release of 245 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: a mature egg, which is how we fall pregnant. But 246 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: if these two hormones, So the follicle stimulating and the 247 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: lutinizing hormone are suppressed, the chances of ovulation and therefore 248 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: fertilization by a male sperm cell are significantly reduced. Basically, 249 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: it interrupts our body signals within our normal cycle and 250 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: tells the body that you know, no, we can't get pregnant. 251 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: We shouldn't release these two main hormones because we already 252 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: have enough of this other hormone in the body. Our 253 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: body is doing fine, we'll be able to fall pregnant normally. 254 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: So it basically blocks our body from responding to natural 255 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: cues to release an egg, meaning that no egg is 256 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: released and therefore you can't get pregnant. So Progression only 257 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: birth control pills. They do something a little bit different. 258 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: If it's just progressterone, They kind of make it difficult 259 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: for sperm to reach the egg in the event that 260 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: ovulation occurs, but it has less of a direct effect 261 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: on that follicle stimulating and lutinizing hormones, so it doesn't 262 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: stop ovulation. It just prevents kinds of the sperm from 263 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: getting in. So these two doctors, Rock and pinkis used 264 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: an oral contraceptive pill much like the ones we have today, 265 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: containing synthetic progressterone that they got supplied by a pharmaceutical 266 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: company and they administered it to fifty women under what 267 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: they called a fertility study because at the time, in 268 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, so not even a hundred years ago, 269 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: not even one hundred years ago, contraception was illegal in 270 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: much of the United States, including in Massachusetts, so they 271 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: kind of had to conduct this study on the guise 272 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: of actually trying to help women fall pregnant rather than 273 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: giving women the power to not do so. So this 274 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: pill was taken by women for twenty one days, followed 275 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: by a seven day break, and they concluded that no 276 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: ovulation occurred in any of the women during drug administration, 277 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: basically meaning that when these women were taking this artificial steroid, 278 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: they could not fall pregnant. So one of the scientists 279 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: they wrote a scientific research paper and explained how this 280 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: drug succeeded in inhibiting ovulation, but skepticism kind of remained 281 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: in authorities at the time. There was, I guess a 282 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: lot of rhetoric around whether women should be able to 283 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: control whether they wanted to give birth, especially considering that 284 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: the World War Two had occurred only ten years before, 285 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: and there was a big push to increase population size 286 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: and to have more children. So the introduction of something 287 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: that would allow women to control whether or whether they 288 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to have children kind of stood in the 289 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: way of that goal of increasing the size of the 290 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: population of the US, But they pushed ahead, and in 291 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: order to provide kind of further evidence that this daily 292 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: pill was effective, they moved their studies to Puerto Rico 293 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: to conduct a larger clinical trial. Now, there is a 294 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: lot of ethical discussions around ducting medical trials in communities 295 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: that might maybe less developed or have lower incomes them say, 296 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: more developed countries like the US, So it's believed that 297 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: the reason they took their study here was because a 298 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 1: it was cheaper to get participants. In some cases, they 299 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: didn't even need to they only needed to pay them 300 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: a small amount, and there would be less kind of 301 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: ethical and moral questions and questions from the government regarding 302 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: their intent. Basically, they could do things that were a 303 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: little bit more dangerous knowing that no one would really 304 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: care other than the communities, and their voices weren't loud 305 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: enough to be heard on an international scale. Luckily enough, 306 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: the pill was reported successful to be successful. But and 307 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: this is a really crucial point for our later discussions, 308 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: there were so many side effects for legal consideration and 309 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: for medical consideration that the medical director of the clinical 310 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: trials actually said that the should not be considered that 311 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: the hormonal birth, that hormonal birth control of the pill 312 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: posed too many side effects and dangers for it to 313 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: become more popular and prevalent. Instead, they forged ahead, and 314 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: after kind of conducting further clinical trials and lowering the 315 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: dosage of estrogen and progresstone, the female controlled contraceptive method 316 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: now known as the pill became a rapid nationwide use 317 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: for protection against pregnancy, and nowadays and we know it 318 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: is prescribed in its millions to people all over the 319 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: world every year and is one of the most popular 320 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: birth control methods for many of the reasons we've already stated. 321 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: It is cheap, it is effective, it is within the 322 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: women's control. But it's also important to remember those initial 323 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: side effects that were brought up in those early clinical 324 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: start in those early clinical trials that initially caused people 325 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: to be quite wary of the use of synthetic to 326 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: control our natural cycles. And this is kind of what 327 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: I want I'm keen to discuss for the rest of 328 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: this episode, firstly diving into some of the physical side effects, 329 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: and then of course moving on to the psychological impacts 330 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: of regularly taking synthetic hormones and what that does for 331 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: our mental well being and the natural processes and cycles 332 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: of our bodies. Okay, I'm going to make a bit 333 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: of a disclaimer, and I'm gonna make it early before 334 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 1: we start talking about some of the side effects and 335 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: impacts and influences that come with hormonal birth control, particularly 336 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: the pill. Personally, I am not the biggest fan of 337 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: this method of reproductive health or reproductive control. From my experience, 338 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: I have found that the side effects greatly outweigh the benefits, 339 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: and in some cases, some of the more serious side 340 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: effects that are more common than you would probably think, 341 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: aren't always discussed in a medical environment or in a 342 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: medical context when you might be first being prescribed the pill, 343 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: often at an early age. But I also know it's 344 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: a personal choice and there are a number of amazing 345 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: reasons for being on birth control, and family planning is 346 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: just kind of one of them. So I think there 347 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: is a misconception that people who take the pill take 348 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: it for one reason there's actually active they want to 349 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: not fall pregnant. But it's really an amazing kind of 350 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: technology and an amazing medicine for controlling things like endometritis, 351 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: for controlling acne, and regulating heavy or irregular periods that 352 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: can cause things like anemia and iron deficiency. And there's 353 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: also been some interesting studies that have shown that it 354 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: can reduce the risk of uterine cancer and some other 355 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: forms of preventable cancers that often are more prevalent in women. 356 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: So birth control is not the only kind of function 357 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: only planning is not the only function. It can have 358 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot of other impacts on our physical health and 359 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: our wellbeing that often not discussed as much. And these 360 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: are all some of the really amazing benefits of using 361 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: synthetic hormones, not just for birth control, but for other 362 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: elements of physical health and wellbeing. And it might be 363 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: something that you would consider if you have endometritis or 364 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: at a regular period. It's a great way to kind 365 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: of take control over your health, not just in terms 366 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: of deciding when you want to have a family, but 367 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: thinking about your health in a more holistic way. Though 368 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: we kind of typically present hormonal contraceptives as a really 369 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: great success for women, which they are. Sometimes we do 370 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: tend to overlook some of the serious side effects that 371 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: have been reported in mainstream scientific literature, and I've often 372 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: found that when you are initially being prescribed to the pill, 373 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: and this is obviously anecdotal, they're not always brought up, 374 00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: either through negligence or just because they're not seen as important. 375 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: And women who do regularly ingest hormonal birth control methods 376 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: will find that they usually have a few side effects. 377 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: Most of the time they're common and they're manageable, but 378 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: they can be more serious. And I'm sure we've all 379 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: had friends who have told us stories about terrible episodes 380 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:23,479 Speaker 1: of depression or weight gain or mood swings, even stories 381 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: about people who've had strokes or heart attacks, because the 382 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: interaction between because increasing kind of hormone levels, particularly through 383 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: artificial methods, can really fuck with our bodies in some 384 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: ways and interact with pre existing conditions in ways that 385 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: can be quite dangerous. Some of the common kind of 386 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: physical side effects that I think are pretty manageable can 387 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: be things like nausea and headaches, acne, decreased libido, and 388 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: weight gain, all of these I think are something that 389 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: can be brought into the equation of costs and benefits 390 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: or risks and benefits that we kind of all personally 391 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: have to do when we are considering birth control and 392 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: family planning. Is weight gain, is a decreased libido, is 393 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: acne something that is worth it for you, and that's 394 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: a completely personal choice. But there can be some more 395 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: serious side effects that we don't discuss as much, and 396 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: although they're not as common for those who do experience them, 397 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: it can be pretty dangerous things like blood clots, having 398 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 1: heart attacks, high blood pressure, a stroke. There are even 399 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: some cancers that there have been indications that increasing the 400 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: synthetic level of hormones such as estrogen and progress drawine 401 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: in your body can contribute to, such as liver cancer. 402 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: But these are all more likely to be the case 403 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: with underlying conditions such as a predisposition or a family 404 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: history of particular cancers and blood conditions like light and 405 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: factor five, which aren't often tested for when we are 406 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: prescribed birth control, which was the case for myself. So 407 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: if you do have a predisposition to perhaps experiencing some 408 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: of the more serious side effects, it's really important that 409 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: is known, and that is part of the equation before 410 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: you make the decision to take oral contraceptives or to 411 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: take the pill. And often it's not something that is 412 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: factored in and it's not something that your doctor alerts 413 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: you to when you're first being prescribed this medication. So 414 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: if you are on hormonal birth control at the moment 415 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: or considering it, it would really suggest that you get 416 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: your doctor to run a blood test, make sure that 417 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: you don't have any underlying conditions that might increase your 418 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: likelihood of experiencing some of those more serious side effects 419 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: light blood clots and light stroke, and also considering what 420 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: dosage you're on. The more estrogen and progressed roone that 421 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: is in the pill, it will increase the effectiveness, but 422 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: it's more likely that you will have some of those 423 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: side effects that we've talked about. But this is a 424 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: psychology podcast, so let's cover some of the psychological side 425 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: effects of long term and even short term birth control use. 426 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: That's the question we really wanted to answer today. Birth 427 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: control and hormonal birth control is so common, particularly amongst 428 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: women in their twenties, but what does that mean for 429 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: how they experience their twenties and what does it mean 430 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: for their psychological outlook, their choices, their behaviors, and their 431 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: emotional well being. So I think the long term impact 432 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: of the oral contraceptive and birth control methods on human 433 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: psychology has been vastly under researched in the past and 434 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: even in the current day, and has really only recently 435 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: become a focus for mainstream scholars. Particularly, I think for 436 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: minority populations, they've often not been included in this research, 437 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: as is often the case, and in general, I think 438 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,959 Speaker 1: it is a pretty common understanding that health issues related 439 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: to women receive less funding, receive less research interest, and 440 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: that can have a really big long term impact on 441 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: how things like hormonal birth control are treated and the 442 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: availability of these medications. So, hormonal contraceptive uses, in contrast 443 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: with non users, have been found to have higher rates 444 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: of things like depression and anxiety, fatigue, sexual disturbances, compulsion, 445 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: and anger, all of which kind of create our outlook 446 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: on life. It makes sense you're putting something artificial into 447 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: your body, and it does have incredible benefits. That allows 448 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: you to have control over your body, over when you 449 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: want to fall pregnant. It allows for you to have 450 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: control over some of those other conditions we talked about, 451 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: like and geometritis or eye and deficiency, But there are 452 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: some other important studies that show the depths of the 453 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: psychological impact are often not well known and not shared 454 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: as frequently in a medical context as they probably should be. 455 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: So in September twenty sixteen, this Psychiatry journal published a 456 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: really interesting kind of ground bakering Danish study that found 457 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: a correlation between the use of hormonal birth control and 458 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: being diagnosed with clinical depression. So this study attract hormonal 459 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: birth control use and the prescription of antidepressants over six 460 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: years for over a million women, so this was not 461 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: a small clinical study like some of those studies that 462 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: initially led to the creation of the pill that was 463 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: over a million women, and they found the women who 464 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: were on hormonal birth control such as the pill, were 465 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: significantly more likely to be prescribed antidepressants compared to those 466 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: who weren't taking or weren't using synthetic hormonal forms of 467 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: birth control. And it found a particularly strong correlation between 468 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: teenage birth control users and depression. So there was an 469 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: eighty percent increase risk for teens taking birth control and 470 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: their likelihood of starting antidepressants after going on the pill, 471 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: and this is a really troubling statistic, especially because the 472 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: pill is often prescribed when we are quite young, when 473 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: we become sexually active, or sometimes to treat acne or 474 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: severe menstrual symptoms, and just as a general preventative measure. 475 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: That's something to be considered. Depression is obviously a pretty 476 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: serious mental condition, and it's interesting that taking this pill is, 477 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: or taking some form of hormonal birth control, is increasing 478 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: your likelihood of suffering through what can be and what 479 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: is often a really traumatic and difficult mental health problem. 480 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: I think the other thing that was often brought up 481 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: and there are kind of four other links that I 482 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: wanted to make with psychology and taking hormonal birth control, 483 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: and those are things like uncontrollable mood swings. We've talked about, depression, 484 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: changes in sleeping patterns, loss of libido, and your sexual 485 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: preferences and your sexual choices, all of which will have 486 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: a pretty deep and profound impact on how you experience 487 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: your twenties, how you go about living your daily life, 488 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: your relationships with your partners, with your friends, with your family, 489 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: and just with your general overall experiences. So of all 490 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: of the side effects of hormonal birth control, mood swings 491 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: are often the most common, so it's pretty common to 492 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: feel irritable or short tempered, particularly around when your period 493 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: might take place, and hormonal birth control makes those mood 494 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: swings much worse to the point of, I don't know, 495 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: crying for no reason, feeling a lot of guilt, feeling 496 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: bad about your self, having low self esteem, and just 497 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: a general kind of sadness about the way that you're 498 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: living your life. So up to ten percent of women 499 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: aren't actually able to tolerate synthetic progressterone as an ingredient 500 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: in birth control because of this impact, because they do 501 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: have uncontrollable mood swings that make it difficult to kind 502 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: of function in their daily life and decrease their well 503 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: being to the point that taking this easy form of 504 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: birth control just isn't worth it for them anymore. Like 505 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: I said, this is a personal choice, and that's only 506 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: the case with ten percent of women. Most women might 507 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: not have this reaction. They might find that their side 508 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: effects or some of the impacts are super minor, and 509 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: the benefits of being able to control when they're fall pregnant, 510 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: of being able to control their likelihood of having a 511 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: child or family planning. That is an amazing benefit, and 512 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: it's a really empowering benefit, and it's worth it for them. 513 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: I want to talk about depression a little bit more 514 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: because that is perhaps one of the most serious side 515 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: effects and one of the most common as well. In 516 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: the days before your mentoral cycle begins or before your period, 517 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: it's pretty natural to have an emotional shift that's going 518 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: to cause you to feel less confident about yourself, maybe 519 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: emotionally sensitive, a bit moody. But when these symptoms change 520 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: from uncomfortable feelings to depressive symptoms such as an inability 521 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: to get out of bed, feeling really unhappy about your life, 522 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:38,479 Speaker 1: significant appetite changes, significant changes to your motivation, significant changes 523 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: to your capacity or your ability to reach out to 524 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: family and friends and ask for support, that's probably a 525 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: time and an indicator that you need to be concerned 526 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: your overall functioning is not where it should be. Your 527 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: twenties are meant to be a time of experiencing things 528 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: and being happy with your self and exploring things and 529 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: trying new things out and getting out there and making 530 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: friends and being social before you have some of those 531 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: responsibilities that come along with later life. But research measuring 532 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: the clinical impact of oral conscienceptives. Like I said, it 533 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: found that women taking the pill are more likely to 534 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: suffer from depression than non pill users, and women using 535 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: birth control with particularly large amounts of estrogen had more 536 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: instances of depression than those who are on a lower dosage. 537 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: So perhaps that's something that needs to be questioned. Is 538 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: it worth prescribing women birth control pills and the pill 539 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: that have large amounts of this synthetic hormone that we 540 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: can really increase their risk of pretty serious side effects. 541 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: Studies have also shown that women with a history of 542 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: depressive symptoms it can be made worse when they're on 543 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: birth control. So I think if you have a history 544 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: of depression, feel a significant change in your emotions leading 545 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: up to your period, to the point of severe impacts 546 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 1: on your functioning, maybe even thoughts of self harm, really 547 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: low confidence, it's important to speak to your doctor about 548 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: alternative birth control methods. The pill is really easy, like 549 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: I said, it's often prescribed early and really frequently. But 550 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: when we come to think about these psychological impacts that 551 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: will bleed on to the rest of your life, perhaps 552 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: it is important to consider non hormonal birth control methods 553 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: or those that aren't as reliant on estrogen to kind 554 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: of control your cycle. There are some other things that 555 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: are really important to consider that linked to our psychology 556 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: in our twenties, and that's changes in sleeping patterns and 557 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: a loss of lobido. So it's really normal to have 558 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: an off day here and there where you feel like 559 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: you just want to sleep in you can't get to sleep. 560 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: Maybe you're experiencing insomnia. But if you feel like this 561 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: every day, it could be that your birth control is 562 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: affecting or sleeping patterns. Often it's birth control that contains 563 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: progresterone that can lead you to experiencing either extreme insomnia 564 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: or extreme fatigue. And one of the other symptoms that 565 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: I think is talked about a lot, but it's important 566 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: to be considered in a more nuanced lie is a 567 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: loss of libido. Let's be honest, most of us go 568 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: on hormonal birth control because we want to have sex 569 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: and we want to enjoy the sex that we're having. 570 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: Maybe you first considered it when you had your first 571 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: long term partner, or you're becoming sexually active with someone 572 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: who could make you feel pregnant, and I guess if 573 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: that's the reason why you go on hormonal birth control, 574 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: you probably want to be able to have sex after 575 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: you're on it, But birth control has been found to 576 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: kind of reduce sexual desire in women. So most combined 577 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: birth control pills, which are the most common, they contain 578 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: estrogen and progresterone, which we have talked about, and these 579 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: hormones tinker with the way your body works. Many of 580 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: these combined pills actually lower your testosterone levels relative to 581 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 1: your estrogen levels, and testosterone is the hormone that makes 582 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: you want to have sex. We generally think of it 583 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: as a male hormone, but women also have it, just 584 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: not as much, and it's really important for controlling sexual 585 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 1: desire and controlling kind of energy levels, levels of kind 586 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: of passion and emotion. But if the pill kind of 587 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: interrupts the kind of production of testosterone which ignites sexual desire, 588 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: you might see might start to see that you do 589 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: have lower levels of sexual desire. That can have an 590 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: impact on your relationship. Obviously, choosing to have sex and 591 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: when you want to have sex is completely up to 592 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: you and should always be consensual, but in committed relationships, 593 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: sex is often a really important element of the relationship 594 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: and it's part of the discussions that we have to 595 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: have with our partner. So seeing a dramatic change in 596 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: the amount that might want to be sexually active with 597 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: your partner or be intimate with them can really impact 598 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: the state of your relationship and can lead to perhaps 599 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: some difficult discussions women who use birth control, particularly hormonal 600 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: birth control. I would like to say things like condoms 601 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: obviously are external, they don't really impact on the internal 602 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: functioning of our body. Same with the copper IUD, which 603 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: isn't hormonally based. But hormonal birth control methods have been 604 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: linked to, like I said, reduced sexual functioning, but also 605 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: a high interest in short term sexual relationships compared to 606 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: naturally kind of cycling counterparts. And some evidence even suggests 607 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: that birth control might even alter your mate choice and 608 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: may negatively affect sexual satisfaction in women who are choosing 609 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: to have sex with men, and that has really important 610 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: impacts on who you choose to date, the kind of 611 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: sex you choose to have. And I don't think it's 612 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: perhaps a negative thing, but it's just something to be 613 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: considered and also really interesting when we think that we 614 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: think about the relationship between increasing the level of these 615 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: hormones in our body and who we choose as a mate, 616 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: or who we choose as a partner, or who we 617 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: choose to have sex with. Yeah, something to be considered. 618 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: I don't think that's necessarily a negative thing, but it's 619 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: just a really interesting finding and I think kind of 620 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: highlights that deeper interaction I'm trying to paint a picture of, 621 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: which is that taking the pillars not a passive decision. 622 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: It does actually have huge, huge impacts on how we 623 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: go about our lives in our twenties, and whenever you're 624 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: taking hormonal birth control, the choices we choose to make 625 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: our outlook, our mental well being. I would like to say, 626 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: just because there have been links between hormonal birth control 627 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: and mental health issues and other psychological side effects, that 628 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that birth control will have the same impact 629 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: on everyone using it. I think these can be particular 630 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: cases and often making the decision to lower your dose 631 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: or to perhaps try a different method, like I said, 632 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: non hormonal birth control methods like natural family planning or 633 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: the copper IUD or condoms, that just might be a 634 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 1: personal and conscious choice that you have to make. If 635 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: that equation and if that kind of calculation of the 636 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: cost versus the benefits of hormonal birth control. Maybe is 637 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: leaning more towards the cost and more towards the risks. 638 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning into this episode. This was a 639 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: really interesting discussion for me, and hopefully it has been 640 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: nuanced and I've been able to kind of represent all perspectives. 641 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: But I think at the end of the day, the 642 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: conclusion that I kind of made when I was researching 643 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: this and then I was discussing this, is that hormonal 644 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: birth control, although it might be common and prevalent, is 645 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: not always the simplest and easiest way of kind of 646 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: controlling our reproductive system. And it's not the simplest, easiest 647 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: way of birth control. There are heaps of considerations that 648 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: we need to account for, especially around our psychological wellbeing 649 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: and the interactions that increasing the level of hormones like 650 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: progressed tone and estrogen has on our mental wellbeing and 651 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: our emotional wellbeing, how we process emotions, how we see 652 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: the world, even our experience of pretty intense and severe 653 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 1: and significant mental health conditions like depression. So if this 654 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: has been something that's been on your mind, I would 655 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: really advocate for you going to your doctor to discuss 656 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: it with them and doing your research, having the facts 657 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: and keeping kind of a logo of what the impact 658 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: has been on you and why you think it might 659 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 1: be important for you to perhaps consider an alternative method, 660 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: or maybe your birth control is going fine, and you 661 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: know what, congratulations, that is amazing. You should be able 662 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: to be empowered and I'll be able to make the 663 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: decision over when you want to fall pregnant, if you 664 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,320 Speaker 1: want to fall pregnant, if you want to start a family, 665 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: when you want to start a family. And I think 666 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: that is just one of the amazing benefits of this 667 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: technology that, like I said, has only really become available 668 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: in the last sixty years, and it really has changed 669 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: the landscape for women's rights and the rights of those 670 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: with a vagina around how they want to use their 671 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: bodies and how they want their bodies to be treated. So, yeah, 672 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: a really really interesting historically based topic on the podcast 673 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: this week. I really hope you enjoyed it. There will 674 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: be some resources in the description of this episode if 675 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: you want to do some further research and have a 676 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: look at some of the sort that I looked at. 677 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: I tried to get a nice balance so that there 678 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: were different perspectives being represented, but yeah, really interesting, and 679 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: thank you again for listening. If you feel called to 680 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: do so, please feel free to leave a five star 681 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you are 682 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: listening to this episode right now and if you feel 683 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,399 Speaker 1: cool to do so. We do also have a new 684 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: subscriber network, so you can subscribe on Spotify and receive 685 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: access to bonus content like let's get friendly episodes and 686 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: guest episodes. So I'm just kind of trialing it at 687 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: the moment, but it has been really amazing seeing how 688 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: many people have gotten behind it, and it really allows 689 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: me to do some of that content that's a bit 690 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: more casual and a bit more personal, but makes or 691 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: make it available to people to listen to it if 692 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: they are interested. So thank you again and hopefully I 693 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: will see you back next week when we're going to 694 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 1: be discussing the idea of soulmates and twin Flames.