Speaker 1: Writer, I like your glasses, thank you. Um, I've been
Speaker 1: wearing them a lot lately because I am I'm out
Speaker 1: of contacts. I wear daily contacts for stigmatism and I
Speaker 1: have run out. When did when did you start wearing glasses?
Speaker 1: I mean, when did you start needing contacts? Uh? In
Speaker 1: my mid twenties, I was. I remember sitting in a
Speaker 1: theater in New York with my buddy and like, I
Speaker 1: couldn't see the stage, you know, I was like squinting,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I was like yeah. I was like,
Speaker 1: and why am I? And I was like yeah. So
Speaker 1: I was like twenty six, which I think is when
Speaker 1: you know it starts happening if you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: stigmatism like bad. At least that's what I was told.
Speaker 1: And I got writer's writing a review. It was this
Speaker 1: was it was. It was a decent play. I found
Speaker 1: the actors to be very blurry. They could have done
Speaker 1: something about that. Frankly, Uh No, I'm I have strange eyes. UM.
Speaker 1: When I was eight years old, I was diagnosed with
Speaker 1: something called carataconus in one eye. So my cornea is
Speaker 1: shaped like a cone instead of concave. So I need
Speaker 1: to wear one like glass. I've worn one glass essentially
Speaker 1: it's called gas permeable, but like a thick, heavy contact
Speaker 1: lens in one eye eight years old normal. But the
Speaker 1: tiny little contact lens I wear. That's and what the
Speaker 1: fun thing is, you know, with the daily ones that
Speaker 1: Rider wears. I've worn soft contact lenses. It's like an
Speaker 1: angel is softly kissing your eyeball as it helps you.
Speaker 1: I find glasses more annoying than contact. People can't wear contact.
Speaker 1: You have like a full on piece of I have
Speaker 1: a piece of glass and like a lens in my
Speaker 1: so if the tiniest little grain of sand or dust
Speaker 1: gets in there, it's like just an ice pick in
Speaker 1: your eye, you have to wash it every night. Then
Speaker 1: oh yeah, to do the every morning, every night, every day,
Speaker 1: every day. And when I first got contact, to do that,
Speaker 1: like you know, I would wear the monthly contacts or whatever.
Speaker 1: And when I got the dailies, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is because I used to fall asleep with them
Speaker 1: in my eyes. She's that's not and then tomorrow. And
Speaker 1: then tomorrow is strangely enough that we're when we're recording this,
Speaker 1: but it's weird that you asked tomorrow I actually have
Speaker 1: an eye doctor's appointment, and it looks like I finally
Speaker 1: have to get reading glasses. I think you should just
Speaker 1: wear an eye patch. Just take out the take out
Speaker 1: the glass eye, and just do that. Do you know
Speaker 1: why do you know why pirates were eye patches? Oh gosh,
Speaker 1: why do you know why pirates were eyepatches? People thought
Speaker 1: it was because they lost an eye in battle. No,
Speaker 1: pirates actually wore eye patches to constantly keep one eye
Speaker 1: dark so that if they had to in battle go
Speaker 1: under to the second floor of the like the bottom
Speaker 1: of the ship, which was dark, they'd move the patch
Speaker 1: over and they were already accustomed to the dark, so
Speaker 1: they could see everything in the dark. I mean that
Speaker 1: sounds really cool, but it also sounds like complete eat crop. No,
Speaker 1: this is apparently this is true. Well, okay, send letters know.
Speaker 1: So apparently the pirate because what you would have to
Speaker 1: do is you would always have to if they would
Speaker 1: attack another ship, you would have to go from where
Speaker 1: it's very bright to the top deck to where it's
Speaker 1: very dark. So they and the adjustment. No, it totally
Speaker 1: makes it's it's actually really a cool thing. But I've
Speaker 1: never heard that before. Yeah, so that's apparently what what
Speaker 1: they say. I read a lot of history books and
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of History Channel, so that's what
Speaker 1: I've been blown away by Will's wealth of knowledge and factoids.
Speaker 1: It's really always no, it's not useless. You've ever since
Speaker 1: like the age of sixteen when I met you. I
Speaker 1: feel like you've just had this wealth. I mean like
Speaker 1: I remember like Greek myths. It's astounding to me. Like
Speaker 1: you say one thing, like I had Will on my
Speaker 1: my other podcast, Literary literally had Will on my other podcast,
Speaker 1: and we did a fantasy themed episode because he's our
Speaker 1: fantasy and sci fi correspondent, and like I made a
Speaker 1: reference to a pegasus and Will's knowledge just like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's that? Pegasus is not a species. That's actually the yes, pegasus.
Speaker 1: There are other there are other flying winged winged horses,
Speaker 1: but this is you keep this stuff in your brain.
Speaker 1: And then like random Boy Meats World episodes, they're they're
Speaker 1: all like if we could just if we could do
Speaker 1: a journey through Will's brain, it would just be like
Speaker 1: they have to see storyline. It's like and like huge
Speaker 1: family lines of fantasies, because you know, he reads like
Speaker 1: the thousand page books, remember everybody's name, how they're all related,
Speaker 1: all the Greek myths, all behind and the worldlife and
Speaker 1: every episode of MASH. When I was so for our
Speaker 1: live show, we did something very fun that involves some trivia,
Speaker 1: and I was doing the deep dive into Boy Meats
Speaker 1: World trivia and most of it. When I got to
Speaker 1: the harder stuff, I had no idea. No yeah, and
Speaker 1: I would we know? And I remember then, But then
Speaker 1: I tried to put it in context of MASH, as in,
Speaker 1: I'm a MASH fan, so a boy meets World fan
Speaker 1: hearing these questions, I could have answered every single one
Speaker 1: of them about MASH. So a boy eats World fan
Speaker 1: will will nail what you know, would have nailed these questions.
Speaker 1: No memory. I have this memory of hanging out at
Speaker 1: your apartment in The oak Woods first season, and uh,
Speaker 1: you said, I remember every line from every movie I've
Speaker 1: ever seen, and I was like, that is such crap,
Speaker 1: that's not true, and You're like, give me a movie,
Speaker 1: give me a scene. And the only movie at the
Speaker 1: time that I knew, like Forwards and Backwards, was scanned
Speaker 1: by me, which was my favorite movie. I had seen
Speaker 1: it fifty times literally at that age and you know whatever.
Speaker 1: I've talked about how much I still love that movie,
Speaker 1: but I was the only movie I knew. And I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, the bridge scene when they have to
Speaker 1: cross the and you proceeded to go line by line,
Speaker 1: you walk five miles down the river. You gotta walk
Speaker 1: five miles back. Meanwhile, you guys are dragging your candy
Speaker 1: as have a way across this. I was like, We're
Speaker 1: sitting there just being like, oh my god, and you're like,
Speaker 1: do you want me to keep going? And you knew?
Speaker 1: I was like, how many times have you seen in
Speaker 1: the movies? Like once you just think and then just
Speaker 1: just yesterday or two days ago, I told you I
Speaker 1: was teaching broadcast news to my my screen reading class,
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, great movie. And he started
Speaker 1: quoting scenes line by line. He's like, oh when the
Speaker 1: producer says, you know, you must be hard to being
Speaker 1: the smartest person room, and she goes, oh no. I
Speaker 1: was like, how do you remember this same? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just the way my memory were. I mean again, I
Speaker 1: would read. I would by by day two of Boy
Speaker 1: Boy rehearsals, I knew everybody's lines. Just everybody's lines were
Speaker 1: in It used to be that way for our show,
Speaker 1: like while we were going through it, and even now
Speaker 1: as as a director. Uh, if I'm directing a sitcom,
Speaker 1: I will know everybody's lines in every scene and what
Speaker 1: they're blocking is because that's in your head. It's just
Speaker 1: in your head. You must do that. With literature writer,
Speaker 1: I mean, you read so much. There's gotta be some
Speaker 1: books that you could us fads and forwards. Yeah, palms.
Speaker 1: I used to memorize palms completely. I mean there was
Speaker 1: there was a moment when I was going to actually
Speaker 1: try and memorize all of what Women's Song myself, which
Speaker 1: is like, you know, a hundreds some pages or whatever.
Speaker 1: But and I got pretty far, like but yeah, but no,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, but I would just remember the
Speaker 1: difference between like you and me will it was that
Speaker 1: I would read things over and over and memorize them.
Speaker 1: You would only have to hear something once. If you
Speaker 1: read something, you wouldn't remember it as well, not as much.
Speaker 1: Right you were in a class, Yeah, if you were
Speaker 1: in a class, you wouldn't take notes. You just focus
Speaker 1: on the teacher and you remember everything. Yeah, I'm the
Speaker 1: exact opposite, Like I need to like write it down.
Speaker 1: I need to write it and read it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But then again, I think this. One of the things
Speaker 1: this podcast has showed me is that my memory is
Speaker 1: not as good as I thought it was, or other
Speaker 1: people thought it was, because people send us pictures or
Speaker 1: things like that, and I we got that what yesterday
Speaker 1: somebody sent a picture, no memory of that whatsoever, and
Speaker 1: writer you proceeded to give a four page dissertation of
Speaker 1: everything that had happened that day. And I remember, But
Speaker 1: that's just But that's what's so cool about this is
Speaker 1: that we're able to share all these memories because like,
Speaker 1: it is interesting what what we remember like individually, and
Speaker 1: it kind of, you know, adds up to hopefully it
Speaker 1: forms the whole. It forms the whole painting. One of
Speaker 1: us has this color, one of us is this Oh man,
Speaker 1: I didn't know this was happening. Well, one thing is
Speaker 1: for sure. We all remember our guest this week. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so let me welcome you to pod meets World. I'm
Speaker 1: Daniel Fishel, I'm right or strong. I think I'm wilfrid l.
Speaker 1: Can you be as always? We have got say it
Speaker 1: will U. We've gotten March, we have holiday March. Guys,
Speaker 1: we went over this a little bit, but we have
Speaker 1: got two hoodies, the number one most requested item mugs,
Speaker 1: and we brought back Save the Plane for Mancus with
Speaker 1: a new color way. It's in blue. This is for real,
Speaker 1: the last time you can. This is your chance to
Speaker 1: get it. It's in blue. Once the holidays are over,
Speaker 1: it is gone, forever, forever ever. Correct. That plane is
Speaker 1: long gone, long gone. We've got bumber stickers. We've got
Speaker 1: lots of fun things, so check out our holiday march
Speaker 1: and a shady Melon shirt? Do you want to always
Speaker 1: commemorate the very odd cantelope that Alan held while slyly
Speaker 1: referencing Hamlet, only to smash it on the ground and
Speaker 1: then leave the room. Well we all know one, and
Speaker 1: now you can have the shady Melon t so. Jeff
Speaker 1: Minnell was the executive story editor, producer, and writer of
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World. IMDb credits him with writing eighteen episodes,
Speaker 1: and in season one he wrote two episodes, and he
Speaker 1: was the executive story editor for four episodes, which I
Speaker 1: don't really know what that means. Have we do we
Speaker 1: talk about that executive story editor? I can't wait to
Speaker 1: ask him. We talked about credits. How writers You create
Speaker 1: these credits for writers in order to get them like
Speaker 1: producer credits and whatnot, to get the regular story editor.
Speaker 1: But you get to use the big bathroom something like that.
Speaker 1: Let's welcome Jeff Minnell. You guys look good. Great. What
Speaker 1: do you call me? Jeff? You've never called me that
Speaker 1: we had, but we had a bunch of Jeff's on
Speaker 1: the show. In all fairness, you have on and I
Speaker 1: haven't listened to know, I'm saying on Boy, we had
Speaker 1: we had there was Jeff's. The Jeff's abound. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that's why I went by minnow. Yeah, So what's new
Speaker 1: since I last saw you? Oh? Not much. Nothing much
Speaker 1: has been going on. Let's go back. Let's go back
Speaker 1: to the very beginning. Oh man, how did you get
Speaker 1: your job on Boy Meat's World? Oh wow, you want
Speaker 1: to go way back? Okay, Well, first of all, I
Speaker 1: think you know, I don't even know. I was wondering
Speaker 1: how much you guys know about all our lives. I
Speaker 1: take for granted you know some stuff, but maybe not.
Speaker 1: I've known Michael since we were seven years old, you know. Gosh, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I have this image of a
Speaker 1: story that I think you told me once of going
Speaker 1: to his house and him playing guitar. Was that the
Speaker 1: first time you met him? You know what, I can't
Speaker 1: believe I told you that story because now I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell tell it again. But yeah, that was the first
Speaker 1: time we met. Yeah, we lived. So I'm from Jersey
Speaker 1: and uh we had just moved to Edison, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: from New Brunswick and my parents, I guess they made
Speaker 1: friends with Mr and Mrs Jacobs. And he said, we're
Speaker 1: gonna take you to a house. Here's a boy there,
Speaker 1: here's your age. You're gonna be going to school together,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be working together forever. I didn't know that, believe.
Speaker 1: So we go to his house and you know, I'm honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm not. Yeah, I'm a dumb seven year old kid.
Speaker 1: I I just do whatever my parents tell me. We went.
Speaker 1: He says, hey, you'll come up to my room. I'll
Speaker 1: show you my comic book collection or something like that.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a pickup line, but anyway, so we
Speaker 1: go up there and I see he's got a guitar
Speaker 1: and m and his room looks very different than my room.
Speaker 1: And he goes, I go you play guitar. He goes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to hear a song I wrote. I go,
Speaker 1: I song, you wrote your seven And he takes out
Speaker 1: the guitar and he starts playing and he starts singing,
Speaker 1: and I felt bad, probably for the first time in
Speaker 1: my life about myself. But I really kind of had
Speaker 1: to feel like, I go, this guy is a Chenese anyway.
Speaker 1: So that's how we met. I mean, that's that's many
Speaker 1: years ago. So we we've been friends forever. And I
Speaker 1: never actually wanted to write for TV. I always wanted
Speaker 1: to be in movies. I love movies. I was a
Speaker 1: film reviewer for the Recorder in New York, and I
Speaker 1: was really enjoying my life. And then a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: who's sole an opportunity, said, hey, your friend Michael Jacobs, says,
Speaker 1: my two dad's on the air, right. I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: because we should pitch him ideas and we could write
Speaker 1: a script. I go okay. So I started calling him
Speaker 1: every week with idea something. He would say that's really stupid,
Speaker 1: or we did it or maybe season two I don't
Speaker 1: know anyway, and then that stopped and I just never
Speaker 1: you know, I sent two movies. I wrote, uh, I
Speaker 1: wrote a movie about a serial killer and he wanted
Speaker 1: to turn into a comedy and I said, no, that's okay. Anyway,
Speaker 1: one time, I so I finally wrote a spec Signfeld.
Speaker 1: Seinfeld had just started and I really loved the show.
Speaker 1: I so I called him up and I said, I
Speaker 1: didn't I don't know the business. I said, if I sent,
Speaker 1: I sent, If I sent you a sign Feld it,
Speaker 1: if you like it, can you get it to the
Speaker 1: Seinfeld people? And he goes, yeah, sure, which is a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't send specs to the show you
Speaker 1: write because they legally won't even read it. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so I think after all the years, it's the first
Speaker 1: thing I wrote that he liked. And he called Buck
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I like this and uh and I said,
Speaker 1: so good. Can you get to the Seinfeld people? Who
Speaker 1: goes yep. And that's the last I heard from him.
Speaker 1: And then about five months later he calls me and
Speaker 1: he goes, so listen, um, we're doing a pilot. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's gonna go. I probably won't know
Speaker 1: for a month or two. If it goes, you think
Speaker 1: you might want a job, And I go, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, we had just bought a house. I
Speaker 1: just uh, no, my wife was pregnant with Dara nine
Speaker 1: now by the way, and I go out. I don't know.
Speaker 1: So he calls me. Three months later, we're in this house,
Speaker 1: Dara was born, and he calls. He goes, all right,
Speaker 1: they picked us up for thirteen episodes. Um, do you
Speaker 1: want the job? I need to know by tomorrow and
Speaker 1: I go, oh my god, I go, I'll call you back.
Speaker 1: I got an immediate headache. I never wanted to leave
Speaker 1: East Coast. I love New York, I live Jersey, but
Speaker 1: you know it was an opportunity of a lifetime. So
Speaker 1: Lisa goes a, you go, she'll stay behind with the kid.
Speaker 1: I called the next day and he goes, uh. I
Speaker 1: did ask him this, This is my only important question.
Speaker 1: I go, how do you address You don't have to
Speaker 1: wear a high or anything like that. No. No, he
Speaker 1: sure is good and as you know, ever since you
Speaker 1: guys met me. He also said, though, but there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a woman who co created the show with me
Speaker 1: who's gonna hate you. And I go, why would you
Speaker 1: tell me that? He goes, well, she wanted someone on staff,
Speaker 1: but I'm putting you on because I'm you know, bigger,
Speaker 1: and uh, I go, you don't have to tell me that.
Speaker 1: I could have just gone and maybe meet friends with
Speaker 1: her and worked it out. He worked out, well, I
Speaker 1: thought it happened. Apparently going to the other writers it didn't.
Speaker 1: But whatever. Anyway, So I came out to California by myself,
Speaker 1: left Lesa and I remember that the whole first season, right,
Speaker 1: you guys didn't move out until second season. No, she
Speaker 1: came out. Um, he came over one day out and
Speaker 1: he came over to me right before a show and
Speaker 1: he whistlers. He goes, they picked us up for the
Speaker 1: back nine. Called Lisa. So I called her and she
Speaker 1: just made arrangements and she came out literally three weeks
Speaker 1: before that giant earthquake. So she hated me, terrible to town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she goes, she goes, we need an earthquake prepared, kid.
Speaker 1: I go, Lisa, that's such a rumor. No one needs
Speaker 1: that stuff. And then boom, you know, oh my god,
Speaker 1: So you're right. So I came out and uh, I
Speaker 1: gotta say, you know, it was pretty exciting, especially the
Speaker 1: first season, because yeah, I'm a kid from Jersey. We're
Speaker 1: shooting on the sound stage where Mary Poppins was shot
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm rooming. I shared an office with Jeff Sherman,
Speaker 1: who first day told me who he was the Sherman
Speaker 1: brothers or I mean the father and uncle. I go,
Speaker 1: it was just like, I go, what the this is
Speaker 1: not supposed to happen. But anyway, did you live at
Speaker 1: the Could? I do? I do? I remember that you
Speaker 1: and I would see each other again. Everybody didn't realize
Speaker 1: you were at the Yeah, I lived there in the
Speaker 1: first season two, but I didn't realize you were there.
Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing you, remember seeing well a couple
Speaker 1: of times with some guy right with Spencer, my roommate,
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't think it was such a
Speaker 1: bad place. But then some of the other writers game
Speaker 1: and they saw you. I had a Murphy bed, and
Speaker 1: they go, we gotta get you had here. So I
Speaker 1: rented a house. But it wasn't so bad for one guy,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's built for one guy. The oak
Speaker 1: Wood was built for one guy. It's like divorced men
Speaker 1: dominated the enactors. That was it. That's all that was
Speaker 1: at They and you and you? What was what was
Speaker 1: your first impression of the cast literally please do impressions
Speaker 1: of all of us. Ben's the only one you can
Speaker 1: do impersonation. Man. You know, um, well, Will, I think
Speaker 1: I was. I think I was actually there for Will's
Speaker 1: audition because you know, so I was there for every
Speaker 1: episode but the original pilot. His original pilot was some
Speaker 1: guy named Harry right or something like Harry Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Matt McCoy was the dad. So I had seen the
Speaker 1: pilot and then we came in the cast Rusty uh uh,
Speaker 1: and I think, well, I feel like I saw you
Speaker 1: in the audition and they loved you and cast you,
Speaker 1: and then you came out and all that stuff, so
Speaker 1: um and right. You know, I listened. You know, I
Speaker 1: was an amorative of everything. I'm an amorant of Hollywood
Speaker 1: and television. I'm out there. You guys were all great
Speaker 1: right from the get go. I mean, you know, Ben
Speaker 1: obviously is a little over the top, but fun and
Speaker 1: and Bill listen. I mean I I had trouble even
Speaker 1: looking at Bill the first few weeks because this Bill Daniels,
Speaker 1: he was a graduate and uh sat Elsewhere, which was
Speaker 1: one of my favorite shows. So I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: and by the way, I'm older, starting as a TV
Speaker 1: writer than both. You know, I'm thirty eight, right, and
Speaker 1: that's when I'm starting my TV career, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: I no idea how long it would run. Like Ed
Speaker 1: Dector kind of took me under his wing because he
Speaker 1: was from Jersey. He said, don't live beyond your means
Speaker 1: because this could end tomorrow. You know, he was not
Speaker 1: bad advice. It was not bad advice. We got lucky.
Speaker 1: Remember the show would only get picked up last minute
Speaker 1: each seasons, and we always felt like we were on
Speaker 1: the chopping block. It's crazy. It was kind of weird
Speaker 1: now that I looked back, because it was kind of
Speaker 1: a popular show. I think, you know, uh, but we
Speaker 1: didn't know. We didn't There's no waternet back then, so
Speaker 1: we didn't really know what was going on. So my
Speaker 1: first impression though, I remember, like the first table read, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I loved everyone but for me, William Russ
Speaker 1: like just so, I loved Wise Guy like beyond and
Speaker 1: I mean then it's Roger Lo Coco and we went
Speaker 1: up to me afterwards, and you know, I was more
Speaker 1: like a funny fan than a writer. Uh. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I was just starting, so I wasn't even
Speaker 1: barely a writer yet, and but it was just crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean in the yeah, the whole production, it was.
Speaker 1: It was great. Right in the first run through on
Speaker 1: that sound stage, we had the whole sound stage for ourselves.
Speaker 1: Remember that it was enormous. It was too echoy, you know,
Speaker 1: but it was enormous. But it was just it was
Speaker 1: kind of a dream come true for me. You know.
Speaker 1: It's so funny to me to hear you tell that
Speaker 1: story because it's so it sounds so much like our
Speaker 1: stories and when we were you know, when we were
Speaker 1: kids obviously when the show started, and so from our perspective,
Speaker 1: you guys without knowing anything, you guys were all experts.
Speaker 1: You all know everything that was going on. You guys
Speaker 1: were completely in charge. Nothing was new. This was not
Speaker 1: like it was Also to us, it seemed like you
Speaker 1: guys knew exactly what you were doing, and yet you
Speaker 1: had basically just moved out here, wide eyed and and
Speaker 1: bushy tailed and just as excited as all of the
Speaker 1: We were all more experienced than you were by this point.
Speaker 1: Apparently you were. I had experience, right other than watching it,
Speaker 1: and I mean I had writing experience. I was I
Speaker 1: was a film reviewer, and I had a weekly call,
Speaker 1: a monthly calm for the entertaing a weekly I was,
Speaker 1: I was really enjoying my life. I was a freelance writer.
Speaker 1: So did we ruin your life? Ultimately? I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that first. Um no, no, it was, it was. It
Speaker 1: was an amazing Now once I made the decision, and
Speaker 1: I give Lease a lot of credit because she she
Speaker 1: didn't blink, she says go ahead, and she was working
Speaker 1: full time. You know, I made a few mistakes. I go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to see a movie list that she goes,
Speaker 1: so really make that mistake once. I have a question
Speaker 1: for you. So you talked about the first table read,
Speaker 1: which we've covered. We've kind of a bit covered from
Speaker 1: our side what kind of the week was like, but
Speaker 1: from a writer's standpoint. So we would finish the table
Speaker 1: read and then it was like we'd scatter. The actors
Speaker 1: would go one way and the writers are so once
Speaker 1: you had all heard the table read, what would happen then? Scriptwise?
Speaker 1: Great question, That good question, and our table was I
Speaker 1: think we're Friday right, yeah, which was in a way
Speaker 1: it was good for us because you know, uh Michael, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a devout jew, So we would always
Speaker 1: pray for something like sometimes we would pull the drawn
Speaker 1: the blinds and say, oh, sundowns here. You know, we
Speaker 1: wanted to get out. We would do whatever. So the
Speaker 1: process would be, you guys would leave, and then the
Speaker 1: studio and network would give notes. And the first season
Speaker 1: in particular, maybe even the first couple of seasons. You
Speaker 1: know Michael, you know, he's a very convincing guy, very
Speaker 1: powerful guy, and and he was able to almost talk
Speaker 1: them off every note they would give. He goes, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I understand what you say, but we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this and this and this, and so they would
Speaker 1: give notes, we would go back and do a rewrite,
Speaker 1: and we would have to stop its sundown. I actually
Speaker 1: believe I'm blameing this world. We're a little more efficient
Speaker 1: on growing sports. Well talked like it was just it
Speaker 1: was terrible. But yeah, because you guys would write all weekend.
Speaker 1: We would work on Sundays. I don't ever remember working
Speaker 1: on a weekend for Boy. So I think we would
Speaker 1: either finish or maybe we would come in early on
Speaker 1: Monday and try to finish, because then we would have
Speaker 1: our run through first right on Monday, producer run through Monday,
Speaker 1: so we can see what worked and didn't work based
Speaker 1: on you know, some jokes would die, you know, some
Speaker 1: jokes are really funny in the writer's room. And then
Speaker 1: you know, crickets and you go, oh, man, So we
Speaker 1: do that. Then we do another rewrite that night, and
Speaker 1: then the next day is the network student, how late
Speaker 1: would you go on like a Monday night, Yeah, on
Speaker 1: a Monday night. And and by the way, I remember
Speaker 1: so I was brand new and April um she I
Speaker 1: know she felt like the room. We talked about April Kelly.
Speaker 1: But she's a little bit of a mystery on our shows.
Speaker 1: She was she was really she was. She was really
Speaker 1: good writing. She was a very interesting personality. Um. So,
Speaker 1: she didn't want all of us in the rewrites like
Speaker 1: me and Sherman. By the way, all of us just
Speaker 1: meant me in. Sherman had to alternate. She she wouldn't
Speaker 1: have one more person there. I always wanted to stay.
Speaker 1: I go, I don't care, I'll stay at five in
Speaker 1: the morning. I just want to be part of this.
Speaker 1: This is so exciting and so and she just wanted
Speaker 1: a smaller group in the room. That was That's what
Speaker 1: she said. By the way, the group was already thirteen.
Speaker 1: I don't know what fourteen people would be anyway, but
Speaker 1: but a lot of times it would go it would
Speaker 1: go late. I kind of remember there were a few
Speaker 1: three in the morning kind of but not not a
Speaker 1: ton that show what's it got going? You know, lest
Speaker 1: the script was really bad and we had to do
Speaker 1: a scratch redwrighte which sometimes we we had to do.
Speaker 1: Then it could go you know, horribly. But yeah, first,
Speaker 1: so the first year for me was just kind of
Speaker 1: all fun. Uh yeah, remember what's that a run? The
Speaker 1: Rusty did like a back flip forward the kitchen counter
Speaker 1: just just enter and I'm like, I just pointed, like
Speaker 1: look at it. You see that it goes. We don't point,
Speaker 1: you just just watch, but don't point. How far in
Speaker 1: advance did you guys have of the script ideas down,
Speaker 1: because that's something we've talked about a lot. Is like,
Speaker 1: you know, even so episodes once you knew to Pango
Speaker 1: was going to be a part of the of the
Speaker 1: cast and like a regular regular cast member, how far
Speaker 1: in advance like didn't then was Stepangan just added into
Speaker 1: episodes that had already kind of been written. No, no, no, um, Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, when the season first starts,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of time. Yeah, it was six
Speaker 1: weeks even I don't remember what preproduction is, but that
Speaker 1: that's all that is, is coming up with stories. It
Speaker 1: was it was actually my least yeah, I got you know,
Speaker 1: he would say, all right, everyone coming tomorrow with ten
Speaker 1: story ideas. I'll never forget that go. And by the way,
Speaker 1: I didn't think of any storylines coming into the show.
Speaker 1: I didn't think we'll get started, will be a little run,
Speaker 1: you know, feeling out process. Come with ten ideas, you
Speaker 1: come in the next day and maybe he likes one
Speaker 1: something like a few of another. And then so that
Speaker 1: there would be like if out of thirteen or fourteen,
Speaker 1: if you would be like a hundred and forty ideas anything,
Speaker 1: some of them would be like b storylines or you know,
Speaker 1: they would get interesting. What would happen? And by the way,
Speaker 1: and sometimes uh, at least the first season, like you
Speaker 1: can pitch an idea that he likes, but you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily get the script. So it's just kind of which
Speaker 1: is fine, kind of a free for all thing. And
Speaker 1: so that's at the beginning. Then you have time and
Speaker 1: then pick a bunch of stories and then you start
Speaker 1: if he likes ten, we start breaking the first one
Speaker 1: and you break it and then the writer who's a
Speaker 1: sign that gets off goes rights an outline. Explain to
Speaker 1: our listeners what it means to break to break an idea.
Speaker 1: So say you come out with an idea like, um,
Speaker 1: what was the Women's World episode? Okay, well that well,
Speaker 1: I didn't pitch that one. I have no idea how
Speaker 1: that got the genesis. Um, well, actually, let let's do
Speaker 1: the other one, kid Gloves because that Michael's Michael's father dad,
Speaker 1: Arnie Jacobs. I think he boxed in the Navy. Maybe
Speaker 1: he won those silver bloss I don't remember that, but
Speaker 1: that just that that started a conversation. That's the idea,
Speaker 1: and that led to that episode. So whoever is the Sun?
Speaker 1: And I was assigned that one? Wasn't my original idea.
Speaker 1: As a room, you kind of break down the story.
Speaker 1: You kind of figure out, okay, you know the plot lane,
Speaker 1: and what's the cold open, what's you know, the first act,
Speaker 1: what's the act break? And then how's it gonna end?
Speaker 1: And you start talking that out, and then you've got
Speaker 1: to break it down scene by scene by scene by
Speaker 1: scene for the outline, because the outline has to be
Speaker 1: approved by Michael and I guess maybe even the studio
Speaker 1: and network. And once you get an outline, then a
Speaker 1: writer is sent off to go write that script. And
Speaker 1: in the very beginning, writers will be given two weeks.
Speaker 1: And since I was brand new, uh, ed suggested, why
Speaker 1: don't you fly to Jersey, be with your wife and
Speaker 1: daughter and go right one and and uh and that's
Speaker 1: what that's what the first season was like. Later on,
Speaker 1: you you know, especially when we wrote, like when it
Speaker 1: became a producer level, you're involved in everything. You don't
Speaker 1: go off. You right in between rewrites, right and between
Speaker 1: everything else. And I actually prefer that. I like being
Speaker 1: in the office, said around everything, because you don't want
Speaker 1: to miss out, you know, you like you want to
Speaker 1: be part of We run through every rewrite. Um, so
Speaker 1: breaking the stories like you know, you gotta figure out
Speaker 1: is there a story? And now this is one area
Speaker 1: where michaels I gotta say this kind of this is
Speaker 1: his biggest genius. You'll pitch an idea and he'll he'll
Speaker 1: if he likes it even a little bit, he goes
Speaker 1: right hold on and then he'll see if he can
Speaker 1: see the whole story. And if you can't, you can't
Speaker 1: convince him, and he'll go, no, that's not gonna work
Speaker 1: the next idea, you know. And but other times you'll
Speaker 1: pitch an idea, you have no idea, where's gonna go.
Speaker 1: You just hope he likes it and goes, Okay, that's good,
Speaker 1: that's good. I can see this is what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: That's what's gonna happen. And it's just you know, and
Speaker 1: then and then you know the rewrite process, right, so
Speaker 1: we all rewrite as a group. You turn it into script.
Speaker 1: It's very hard on the heart and the ego. You know,
Speaker 1: you put your blood and sweat and you go, well,
Speaker 1: this is the greatest script ever written. And you know,
Speaker 1: you find out how wrong, how wrong you were. Because
Speaker 1: also part of the problems you guys are professional actors.
Speaker 1: We these writers would have to act out your role
Speaker 1: and you would hate giving certain parts to certain people
Speaker 1: because they were horrible. Like I'm not a good actor.
Speaker 1: You know, I sweat a lot, I get nervous, and
Speaker 1: sometimes I push your line and a writer would go,
Speaker 1: you pusher that line, but Michael can still see through it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you do you do? You do a
Speaker 1: read through with the with the writers, and then he'll
Speaker 1: either and then you just wait for either the acts
Speaker 1: to come down or Okay, that's okay, that's workable. But
Speaker 1: sometimes none of this works, and you know you're you're
Speaker 1: you feel bad for the rest of the writers because
Speaker 1: that means it's gonna be a hard week. If he goes, okay,
Speaker 1: that's good, it's like a sigh of relief, you know.
Speaker 1: And did you ever fight? Did you ever fight for
Speaker 1: anything that everyone was like, this isn't working and you
Speaker 1: knew it would, and it's just like, no, I'm telling
Speaker 1: you this is gonna work. Maybe the actors didn't hit
Speaker 1: it right there in the run through, because again, that's
Speaker 1: the other thing is it's it's such a symbiotic relationship
Speaker 1: because you can write the greatest script in the world.
Speaker 1: If we are off that day and we're not committing
Speaker 1: to the material, you're not gonna be a to see
Speaker 1: what the script could be. So I mean that's we
Speaker 1: we would always That's why constantly people would tell us
Speaker 1: or you hear, trust your writers, because you then have
Speaker 1: to commit and run into the wall full speed hoping
Speaker 1: you knock it down. Knowing that sometimes you're just gonna
Speaker 1: knock yourself unconscious. But was there every time you can
Speaker 1: remember where you're essentially saying, no, I know this is
Speaker 1: gonna work. They didn't nail it today, it's gonna work.
Speaker 1: Let's keep it in. I mean me personally, probably not often.
Speaker 1: I mean a couple of could times did you fight?
Speaker 1: Mostly you fight for a joke that you like, and
Speaker 1: that's something you learned also to be honest as a writer.
Speaker 1: The jokes aren't at that as important. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: some jokes that I love so much that I did
Speaker 1: fight a little bit and Network cut because they had
Speaker 1: like a little part of a bad word in it,
Speaker 1: you know, like it was your dumb mass you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a Matt Lawrence line season seven. Yeah seven,
Speaker 1: Matt Lawrence. They cut that and and Michael I think
Speaker 1: fought for I mean, like me, here's the truth. We
Speaker 1: could have a bad run through and not knuckles. You
Speaker 1: guys sucked just because whatever, it's just something was off.
Speaker 1: And say a lot of times we can see through it,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you can't. You know, if we'll give it
Speaker 1: another chance. If it doesn't work in the second one,
Speaker 1: there it's gone. No matter what you do. So I mean,
Speaker 1: people have fought for lines and fought for moments um
Speaker 1: and usually you know they are really good, they'll they'll
Speaker 1: stick in there. The scripts do get better. The process
Speaker 1: as much as sometimes as painful as a writer did
Speaker 1: just see your script go, you know, I mean, And
Speaker 1: by the way, this is way before like computer, So
Speaker 1: sometimes Michael would take a pencil and scratch out everyone.
Speaker 1: And I have a quick question. Do you remember your
Speaker 1: favorite joke that you wrote that got into the show?
Speaker 1: Do you have like a favorite line? I mean, you
Speaker 1: know that's you're not supposed to do. It's not cool
Speaker 1: to do it. I have to that I think are
Speaker 1: ascribed to you. Well, well no, well nose for dumb
Speaker 1: has to be honest. That was one of my favorite jokes.
Speaker 1: He hated hated losing that, um and the only one.
Speaker 1: And I only tell it because Michael tells it, so
Speaker 1: I feel like he's the one who talks about it.
Speaker 1: And by the way, he talked about this joke for
Speaker 1: so many years, it sounds like I wrote one good joke,
Speaker 1: which I wrote, I wrote one great joke. But I
Speaker 1: mean again, it's a righteous The whole process. This gets
Speaker 1: right it was all shared. It was the you know
Speaker 1: you would you and Corey in the closet when you know,
Speaker 1: maybe I always thought that I was your joke and
Speaker 1: I didn't know if you only thought it because Michael told,
Speaker 1: he told, he told everyone that he goes Minella wrote
Speaker 1: that one, and literally this is ten years after Women's Roll.
Speaker 1: He's thought about that one joke. So it kind of
Speaker 1: I kind of got labeled by that one joke. But anyway,
Speaker 1: but it's still my favorite line. We were just talking
Speaker 1: about it. It's still like my favorite line. It makes
Speaker 1: me laugh every time. And then the other one was
Speaker 1: just something something creepy under boat Andy. Was that YouTube? Yes,
Speaker 1: well it was in this It was in my first
Speaker 1: that's what my That was a kid gloves right, it's
Speaker 1: a second script. I wrote, I think something cold under
Speaker 1: boat Andy, and he changed creep which is much funnier,
Speaker 1: much funnier. Wait, so I do want to just go
Speaker 1: back and remind the audience what the line is that
Speaker 1: both of you guys were talking about that when Phoene
Speaker 1: catches you guys in the closet, right or say what
Speaker 1: it is, don't move, maybe he doesn't see us and
Speaker 1: sharing right at them from a listen to the two things.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons that really works is Bill's look
Speaker 1: of like are you how stupid are you guys? His
Speaker 1: look was great, you guys were great, And it was
Speaker 1: just on the heels of Jurassic Park coming out too,
Speaker 1: like Jurassic Park was only a year old, where that
Speaker 1: whole idea of like not moving and the t Rex
Speaker 1: wouldn't say, it was just don't move. You know, this
Speaker 1: is going to sound very pretentious, but I'm not very
Speaker 1: right to read, you know, and so but I will
Speaker 1: just say that I remember we were in the in
Speaker 1: the writer's room and we were having trouble coming on
Speaker 1: with the line, and I actually, you know, so you
Speaker 1: get credit for this writer? I go, what would Sean say?
Speaker 1: I mean, actually did back that I dumbed down? But
Speaker 1: I just I just wanted to say, so, you know, Sean,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, I say, Sean broke the line
Speaker 1: and it was in the air the Jurassic Park. But
Speaker 1: it just but great. By the way, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff I don't remember, Like people said, was that yours?
Speaker 1: I don't you know. There's one John Strauss I tried
Speaker 1: and out of context not even the funny life. But
Speaker 1: it's just like it was a funny moment, I go,
Speaker 1: I go, that was yours. No, that was yours, like
Speaker 1: we thought. I know, I'm saying, remember and by the way,
Speaker 1: that never happens in a register. Yeah, that was mine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but do you have a favorite episode that you wrote?
Speaker 1: And why is it? And then there was Sean, and
Speaker 1: there was and then there was Sean. Yeah, that's something
Speaker 1: we should we should we should bracket very quickly by saying,
Speaker 1: because have we always referred to it? Yeah? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean, well again, and I really do want to
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not humble or anything like that. You know,
Speaker 1: every script you guys get is rewritten with the room,
Speaker 1: you know, through Michael's eyes, through the whole room. That
Speaker 1: one though, you know, maybe that one I probably more
Speaker 1: lasted than a lot of fun I had a subscripts
Speaker 1: and were totally rewritten that one. It's unfair because it
Speaker 1: was a really fun, so different type script. And I
Speaker 1: will say this, it's the only script I ever I did.
Speaker 1: You know you said you ever fight for any thing.
Speaker 1: We were talking about doing this kind of movie thing,
Speaker 1: and I am I love movies so much. To know
Speaker 1: you know, you know my I won't tell you my
Speaker 1: email because but you know, you know it's film is
Speaker 1: in there. You know something else I love and and
Speaker 1: actually I'll never forget. I I not that I was
Speaker 1: a pushover, but I was like just so grateful to
Speaker 1: be there. And I wasn't aggrssive or ambitious even. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I never took a meeting while I was right, everyone's
Speaker 1: off right. I didn't know you're supposed to use this
Speaker 1: as a launching pad to get somewhere else. I just
Speaker 1: don't know. Boy, just rolling run forever and I'm good,
Speaker 1: you know. But I went to Michael's office. I said, listen,
Speaker 1: there's something being talked about. And I think and someone
Speaker 1: else was maybe running the show at the time. I
Speaker 1: don't remember why I went to him elsewhere, but I said,
Speaker 1: I really, I I can this is I should write this,
Speaker 1: this is this is just in my wheelhouse. And he
Speaker 1: gave it to me. And I mean, I I had
Speaker 1: a live about this. By the way, I wrote it
Speaker 1: like in two days. But he goes, I remember third
Speaker 1: through third day and he goes, where are you, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm like a page thirty goes you better not be
Speaker 1: You should be on page ten. I of course I'm
Speaker 1: on page ten. It was done. It was just so
Speaker 1: much fun to write and and and putting different kind
Speaker 1: of lines in your guys mouth was It is such
Speaker 1: a classic episode then, easily the number one most talked
Speaker 1: about episode over the years. Still to this day, we
Speaker 1: go to conventions, we meet people, it's the number one episode.
Speaker 1: People want to talk about articles about it like they've
Speaker 1: done full breakdowns every Halloween. Yeah, I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: and I'm not overstating this. Yeah, I wrote, I wrote,
Speaker 1: I wrote a good draft and it got better in
Speaker 1: the rising room. But I want to give nine credit
Speaker 1: to Jeff McCracken. This guy, he got that script and
Speaker 1: I've never seen he was so yeah. He goes, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I know what I'm gonna do with this.
Speaker 1: And I remember our first run through in the lighting
Speaker 1: and the music, right, colchor and every everything you were together.
Speaker 1: But you guys said you had a great time fulling around,
Speaker 1: but it worked perfectly against you by any chance. Remember
Speaker 1: the name of the janitor, the actor who played the
Speaker 1: janitor now but someone you know what. Yes, I actually
Speaker 1: was sort of interviewed for this for some whatever online thing,
Speaker 1: and he said. I heard that. He said he was
Speaker 1: an actor that was known from something else, but I
Speaker 1: don't remember his name. I looked at him up a
Speaker 1: long time ago, but he was there. You saw him too, right.
Speaker 1: We're still trying to track him down, and now we're
Speaker 1: wondering if he never product that's why he didn't get credit.
Speaker 1: There's no background, so no, I think, I think I
Speaker 1: want to say, either mccrack or someone on set you
Speaker 1: saw him and brought either him or a picture up
Speaker 1: to Michael's. Yeah. Perfect, And my guy, was he perfect?
Speaker 1: He was so scary. Now I know how humble you are.
Speaker 1: And also and I also know the truth that jokes
Speaker 1: and scripts get rewritten by everybody. But two of my
Speaker 1: favorite jokes in the entire series are in that episode
Speaker 1: the screen. Episode one is the pencil joke. Will always remember.
Speaker 1: He was great, That's why. I don't think that's why
Speaker 1: that's and I don't want to give every other line
Speaker 1: that's not mine to Michael, but I'm pretty sure that's not.
Speaker 1: But that's a great joke. I love that it was
Speaker 1: also Michael's. I did to have him slide down the
Speaker 1: wall with the pencil. That was that was great. And
Speaker 1: then My other favorite joke is I will get as
Speaker 1: close to dying as you can possibly get keep dying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great I love that joke, and I thank you.
Speaker 1: And it's not mine. I don't know who. I also
Speaker 1: think that was Michael's. Again, I don't want to take
Speaker 1: away from any other writer. Yeah, I'll be I'll always
Speaker 1: be honest if I if I don't know was mine,
Speaker 1: I'll say I don't think it was. They're tenious lines.
Speaker 1: Whoever wrote them, credits and whoever wrote them, they're both
Speaker 1: they're both genius. So those are just two of my
Speaker 1: favorite jokes. I have a question. So you're in the
Speaker 1: writer's room now, writer. I think writer alluded to this
Speaker 1: the other day that apparently we've heard that there were
Speaker 1: certain writers that were maybe not more acclimate. It's not
Speaker 1: the right way to say that that maybe had the
Speaker 1: voice of a certain character in their mouth more than
Speaker 1: somebody else, Like, oh, they always they're they're great with Sean,
Speaker 1: they're great with Eric, they're great with Tapanga. It was
Speaker 1: that true, you know that was true, Like you know,
Speaker 1: Matt Nelson, to be honest, and especially in the Lady Years,
Speaker 1: was considered the voice of Sean especially when Sean became
Speaker 1: very you know, deeper, and maybe so Matt Nelson, Yes,
Speaker 1: that had a lot of eggs and and but it's
Speaker 1: a great He was also a great writer, was a playright,
Speaker 1: so I mean, but it wouldn't be like he would
Speaker 1: do all the song lines. But sometimes was you know,
Speaker 1: especially in the script that he wrote or someone else wrote,
Speaker 1: he would have he could get that voice. Michael would go, Matt,
Speaker 1: you know right, what did say here? Yeah? Exactly? And
Speaker 1: sometimes so who was Morgan? I don't know that was
Speaker 1: so you mentioned like the kids. The kid Gloves episode
Speaker 1: was inspired by a real life story from Michael's life.
Speaker 1: Did any of your personal life experiences make it into
Speaker 1: an episode? Uh? Yeah, I mean let's see, yeah, grow
Speaker 1: was rely I had one, but a boy the only
Speaker 1: one was I remember once I got I got bit
Speaker 1: by a dog, you know, and and I think I
Speaker 1: was I just thought about that and it was bad,
Speaker 1: and I was really nervous what was gonna happen? And
Speaker 1: so I pitched the idea. But up in a Busgang
Speaker 1: wrote the script where Corey gets bit and thinks he's
Speaker 1: started a werewolf. So I didn't think I was starting
Speaker 1: in a werewolf, but I did. I did think he
Speaker 1: got bit by something he didn't know what it was,
Speaker 1: and and hair started growing on his arms, and but
Speaker 1: they ran with it. They were really really funny script
Speaker 1: um you pitched and stuff, all the stuff times from
Speaker 1: your life, you know, a bad sleepover, stuff like that
Speaker 1: that you know, things go wrong and they they changed.
Speaker 1: You know, you can pitch one idea that becomes something
Speaker 1: entirely different, and that that's the good process of the right.
Speaker 1: You know, the writer's room, someone will take something and
Speaker 1: run with it, and you go, that's that's better than
Speaker 1: I thought. Now. Would you ever? Was there ever a
Speaker 1: story that you kept pitching over and over again that
Speaker 1: you wanted to get done that just never happened, Where
Speaker 1: it was like, I want to do this and it
Speaker 1: just never happened. Uh, Now there was something you pitched
Speaker 1: that you kind of knew this is stupid, but you
Speaker 1: think it could be funny. You know, I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I'd rather not even say, because they were so bad.
Speaker 1: Some of them were so bad. You know, I think
Speaker 1: the bus kept wanting to pitch. Corey wanted to pretend
Speaker 1: to be Juice so we can have a bar mitzvah,
Speaker 1: which was very funny, but it just never happened. I
Speaker 1: think they picked that a couple of times. Um, there's
Speaker 1: one I picked that I remember now I won't up to.
Speaker 1: It's kind of disgusting. I think I wanted to pitch
Speaker 1: writers the first guy to try to get a job
Speaker 1: on Mars. It wants to beat the rush, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. They's just stupid things out there, but
Speaker 1: nothing that I would ever push because, to be honest
Speaker 1: with Michael says no, uh or it doesn't go. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be that guy that Hey remember
Speaker 1: that one I pitched? Oh yeah, the one I hated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you wanted to pitch that again, So probably not. So
Speaker 1: I'm wondered Jeff, if you remember, because we had this
Speaker 1: debate when we watched b Team of Life, which okay,
Speaker 1: so not really really Yeah, but I understand it was early.
Speaker 1: It was one of the earliest strips and and I
Speaker 1: guess you're probably right. Maybe it was too close to
Speaker 1: the pilot, so we were right, But I mean it
Speaker 1: was it was within the first run of like five episodes, right,
Speaker 1: and then it just got pushed into the back. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I believe it was like the second and third one
Speaker 1: that we wrote that we broke that we shot all right,
Speaker 1: but you know why things get moved around. That's that
Speaker 1: was way above my pay right, So I have no
Speaker 1: idea why, but you're probably right as far as that goes.
Speaker 1: They probably go too close to the pilot. Let's just
Speaker 1: move it. It didn't matter, you know. Um, I can't
Speaker 1: tell you. I was listening to Guys Analysis and I
Speaker 1: have not seen those shows. I'm not kidding, uh, since
Speaker 1: you know, so those two episodes I haven't, you know,
Speaker 1: but Kid Loves I watched it yesterday. I teared up
Speaker 1: at the end. It was really sweet. It was just
Speaker 1: it was just so nice to see everyone so young.
Speaker 1: It's a nice show. It's a nice show. Were you
Speaker 1: aware that, I mean, when you were when you guys
Speaker 1: were in the writer's room, how much of like, because
Speaker 1: the tone of boy Me's World is very unique, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it's not a silly sitcom, it's not, it's not it
Speaker 1: wasn't like other kids shows at the time. And were
Speaker 1: you guys conscious of that? Were you talking about that?
Speaker 1: Were you aware, like, oh, we're going to make sure
Speaker 1: that this actually pulled some heart strings and says something
Speaker 1: real and what was that conversation? Like I think, I
Speaker 1: would say, as far as I can remember it against
Speaker 1: a long time ago, I do it. But I do remember.
Speaker 1: There was always heart, Mike always want to have a message.
Speaker 1: There was always I always want to do a little more.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, always wanted to be funny, because funny
Speaker 1: is important already number one. It should be. But you know,
Speaker 1: later on, maybe it wasn't for some of us. You know,
Speaker 1: like John Strauss once called me and said, when he
Speaker 1: was let off the show, goes, when did the show
Speaker 1: become a drama? And I go, you know, but I
Speaker 1: actually yeah, never. Never for me, never became a drama.
Speaker 1: For me was always we'll get to you in a second.
Speaker 1: I have a fun about you. I don't know. You
Speaker 1: came in and you begged us to stop making you
Speaker 1: so stupid, and I think we rewarded you by making
Speaker 1: you become a couch cushion. Yes, I think that was
Speaker 1: pretty much what happened. I did remember, yeah, well we
Speaker 1: do something that's not like this, please, but but to
Speaker 1: be honest, right, yeah, we you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: we were trying to be one thing. Michael would always said,
Speaker 1: we never wanted to talk down to the kids. Never
Speaker 1: wanted to treat them like I mean, treat them like kids,
Speaker 1: but not talked down to, never be condescending because most
Speaker 1: of the storylines they will understand and get. And you know,
Speaker 1: even though we were young when we started, I think
Speaker 1: I'd like to think we always thought we were like
Speaker 1: doing a little bit more, a little bit better. We
Speaker 1: cared a lot and everything. I think every episode except
Speaker 1: for maybe Last Tango in Philly, not my favorite episode
Speaker 1: that I wrote, um had a message or had a
Speaker 1: good message, you know, and always had heart, and we
Speaker 1: was trying to take it one step above. I think
Speaker 1: we did, at least in hindsight, we did well. The
Speaker 1: thing that amazes me, or that's actually all of us,
Speaker 1: is that none of us realized how involved the parents
Speaker 1: were because we're in we weren't were in school when
Speaker 1: they're rehearsing, so you kind of and then their adults
Speaker 1: were not kind of with them. But as we're watching
Speaker 1: the show, there's a lot of Amy and Allen and
Speaker 1: Pheenie and they're they're so good. But again, to to
Speaker 1: go to writer's point that it's not a kids show
Speaker 1: at all, it's this hybrid show where it's all about
Speaker 1: the kids. And then there's two scenes that's just Betsy
Speaker 1: and Rusty. Um, so there was it was a very
Speaker 1: interesting combination of the two. Uh and something that I
Speaker 1: don't think it's really been seen before or since. It
Speaker 1: was either about the kids or about the adults. Um.
Speaker 1: So interesting point. That's a good cood point. I can't
Speaker 1: speak to like whether that was a conscious thing. Certainly
Speaker 1: not on my part, it wasn't. But but you're right.
Speaker 1: I was watching those two episodes last night ago. They're great.
Speaker 1: First of all, Yeah, they're just so good. I had
Speaker 1: no idea how beautiful Betsy was until I watched her
Speaker 1: last yesterday. I go, I used to hang on the
Speaker 1: set with that woman. Yes, I mean, obviously she's beautiful,
Speaker 1: but she was just so natural. She really still that pretty?
Speaker 1: Still that pretty too. Yeah, and Rusty's russy is the
Speaker 1: I'm sort of I'm in touch. But yeah, Rusty still
Speaker 1: that pretty, still, that that full head of hair. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: But do you remember playing Santa in the Family Trees episode?
Speaker 1: Do I remember? I just got a dollar fifty check
Speaker 1: for that. I thought about I fought against it because
Speaker 1: you know, they yeah, they want stressed me up as
Speaker 1: a carrot and and because they wanted to this one
Speaker 1: putting a fat man in the carrot suit and uh.
Speaker 1: And then Michaels, you're gonna be standing and I go,
Speaker 1: I know why you want me to because you know
Speaker 1: I'm the heaviest guy on staff. And I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be on camera because you know,
Speaker 1: again I sweat a lot and this and that and
Speaker 1: putting the Santa suit on. But I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: you know, it was a great moment between me and
Speaker 1: writer and uh. Fred Savage directed and he said I
Speaker 1: nailed it in one, but we did two takes. Yeah, safe,
Speaker 1: that's what he said. So of course I remember. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a it's a cool thing that I had,
Speaker 1: you know that have one line on television and you also, Jeff,
Speaker 1: was it Jeff baggy bag Will Yes, that's just a picture,
Speaker 1: but it's the photo. It's it's with the baseball player
Speaker 1: who had been hit by the most pitches. Is that right?
Speaker 1: In the history of baseball? That was you who you
Speaker 1: were investing in. That was your big investment. He the
Speaker 1: guy who got hit by more pitches, and then he
Speaker 1: retired right before he would break the record lot a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, thousand dollars, Jeff bag I just remember a
Speaker 1: big swollen faced picture of you. Yeah, I played stuff
Speaker 1: in my cheeks, that black stuff under now what I
Speaker 1: kind of enjoyed. I think I have that picture somewhere.
Speaker 1: You know. What's going back just a little bit to
Speaker 1: the idea of it being very important to Michael to
Speaker 1: never talk down to the audience. There is such a
Speaker 1: weird like formula, but it wasn't a formula because we
Speaker 1: can't figure out exactly what the magic potion was that
Speaker 1: made it work. But there are a lot of terms
Speaker 1: people use these days that they used in like a
Speaker 1: kind of a drag tory way, like you're you're so woke,
Speaker 1: or virtue signaling. And yet Boy Meets World always had
Speaker 1: a good message and a lot of ways people today
Speaker 1: might say it was a woke show or that it
Speaker 1: was a show that virtue signaled, because it did really
Speaker 1: kind of put forth good messages of how to be
Speaker 1: a good family member, how to be a good friend,
Speaker 1: how to be a good member of society. And yet
Speaker 1: people love it. They don't think about it in any
Speaker 1: sort of derogatory way. They recognize that they're getting such
Speaker 1: an incredible lesson and they don't feel like they're being
Speaker 1: beaten over the head with it. Like what what is
Speaker 1: it that made it work? It was such a it's
Speaker 1: it's magic. I mean, if you think about the fact
Speaker 1: that still thirty years later, the show still holds up
Speaker 1: and we are able to sit here and break down
Speaker 1: episodes and people want to hear us talk about it.
Speaker 1: There are very few shows that could still do that
Speaker 1: thirty years later. What do you think that like secret
Speaker 1: was That's a that's a good point. I mean maybe
Speaker 1: just because there always was a world office, you know,
Speaker 1: um within Michael m with the writers. I mean we
Speaker 1: we you know, you know, you could pitch something that
Speaker 1: could be really funny, that could be inappropriate obviously in
Speaker 1: the writer's room obviously, you know, there's so much inappropriateness
Speaker 1: back in the day that could not survive today. But
Speaker 1: a lot of that wouldn't get into the script because
Speaker 1: just because I always wanted to be true to the characters.
Speaker 1: Michael is very keen on protecting the characters, and and
Speaker 1: and I just think we always did what you guys
Speaker 1: would do. In other words, like you know, we're not
Speaker 1: gonna do something I wouldn't say we were woke or
Speaker 1: or we thought about that kind of thing, and it
Speaker 1: was a progressive show. Well, you're right. And and by
Speaker 1: the way, I think you guys would talked about maybe
Speaker 1: you know, maybe writer will said in that uh the
Speaker 1: Beat Team story when writer comes in with that article
Speaker 1: the show cory about you know, other guys that I
Speaker 1: used to send on the bench, what a good friend.
Speaker 1: And just I think because the heart of the show
Speaker 1: is relationships with all all these people, that it just
Speaker 1: sort of naturally lent to what you're talking about. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is all in hindsight we look back now, I
Speaker 1: don't and I don't know that we were the only
Speaker 1: show like that. I honestly I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: think we sort of maybe just got lucky because we
Speaker 1: did what we wanted to do and wanted to have
Speaker 1: a good message in each episode and that lends itself
Speaker 1: to not doing that stuff that you would cringe now
Speaker 1: going or said that. But that's just I guess. Well,
Speaker 1: kudos to all of you guys in the room for
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, like you said, there in all
Speaker 1: writers rooms there, you know, in order to keep creativity flowing,
Speaker 1: sometimes you're you're pitching things that are like, Okay, here's
Speaker 1: a bad joke, but it'll hopefully get us to a
Speaker 1: better joke. And here's something that's totally inappropriate that we're
Speaker 1: not going to use, but hopefully it like sparks something
Speaker 1: that you know, and like you said, there there are
Speaker 1: definitely things that I'm sure, I'm sure we're said that
Speaker 1: would not be said now and um, but ultimately, I
Speaker 1: think you know, it's been one of my favorite things.
Speaker 1: Uh watching the show. People had told us over the years, Wow,
Speaker 1: like it still holds up and I still there's still
Speaker 1: such great lessons in it, but we hadn't watched it,
Speaker 1: and so now watching it ourselves, I think we've all
Speaker 1: been really pleasantly surprised through this first season of just
Speaker 1: how much we actually enjoy it. Yeah, well, and it
Speaker 1: shows you guys, you guys, I mean, you guys definitely
Speaker 1: had fun and and your camaraderie and chemistry came across
Speaker 1: right from the beginning. You know, I didn't remember, Daniel,
Speaker 1: that you were in not a lot of episodes at
Speaker 1: the very beginning me. So it's kind of it's kind
Speaker 1: of weird when you don't see it. But then you know,
Speaker 1: but then you you you really grew as a character,
Speaker 1: obviously because once we realize you know, you were going
Speaker 1: to be part of the show, it became a big thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you guys are a big part of that.
Speaker 1: You know, you brought the right character to the character.
Speaker 1: You know so well to that end. Do you have
Speaker 1: any insight to who actually named to Panga? Um? I? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm so part of my problem is, you know,
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of the stories. Who's telling the
Speaker 1: right When I can tell you this, no, I'd rather
Speaker 1: not get involved because it's no, No, I'm not Michael. Michael.
Speaker 1: You know he did drive by to Panga. Canon. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of times where you say I'm twenty minutes
Speaker 1: away I met to Panga. So there's probably, uh, there's
Speaker 1: a chance of that. But but I and I know
Speaker 1: Sherman put it in his script the first time. I
Speaker 1: don't think Bill Lawrence did it right. No, I heard
Speaker 1: he said he did it. Um you know he wrote
Speaker 1: a freelance episode first. But honestly, I can't say I
Speaker 1: remember the seminal moment. But you know, I'm gonna believe
Speaker 1: Michael on this just because he did say I'm at
Speaker 1: to Panga so many times that um, I'm not disbelieving. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I think I know. Sherman put it in his It
Speaker 1: was in his script, the first script. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: a witness of a lot of stuff, but these days
Speaker 1: I'm not a great winners because I don't remember any
Speaker 1: of us, like uh, Lauria would say that was thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. You know what does he remember? And I
Speaker 1: remember I remember a lot of things, but not everything.
Speaker 1: But okay, so somewhere between Michael and Sherman, Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: take that answer. Now. Giving you a lot, We've given
Speaker 1: you a lot of praise that's well deserved. Now I
Speaker 1: have a question, be Team of Life, how does the
Speaker 1: math work out that the Matthews family? I heard you guys,
Speaker 1: are ye did we did? We cut the time machine? See?
Speaker 1: What is that the thing that happened? Is there something
Speaker 1: we missed? No? But I will say this, I used
Speaker 1: to live outside Philly and chill him is not that
Speaker 1: far from Okay, Philly, so, which unfortunately hurts what I'm about,
Speaker 1: makes it even worse. It does make it worse, I think.
Speaker 1: But one of you made a good argument. I think, uh,
Speaker 1: I think it was Will a writer. But just like
Speaker 1: you know, you go early, the bus leaves early, they
Speaker 1: get there early. I don't know what time in the family,
Speaker 1: by time he got home. They may have just left
Speaker 1: to go right, so I can just find the family.
Speaker 1: They're not necessarily gone for hours. The team was gone
Speaker 1: for hours. I'd say, let's stop analyzing stuff. A lot
Speaker 1: of plot holes and a lot of shows. Can you
Speaker 1: just you find not scratch cocking the chicken? Yeah? How
Speaker 1: did justify that? Minnel? I didn't think that term would
Speaker 1: ever come up again. I've never heard it, so you
Speaker 1: said it from Well, I like cooking, I do like
Speaker 1: I do hate that Corey just threw that chicken to
Speaker 1: the dirt. Was really wasteful, And I thought Bill was
Speaker 1: much less angry me than I would have been. He
Speaker 1: was very understanding. Well, you know, he wasn't cooking it right,
Speaker 1: so he didn't really care all that much about it.
Speaker 1: That was the thing vital controversial question. Is it a
Speaker 1: backyard or is it a sideyard? Um, it's a I've
Speaker 1: never thought about that until I heard you guys talk
Speaker 1: about it. Well, it's a side backyard. Everyone knows that
Speaker 1: there's not many of them. It's the only one ever
Speaker 1: on television. But it is. Listen, my front door doesn't
Speaker 1: face the street. It faces my neighbor's house. So there
Speaker 1: are certain Yeah, not but I don't like that. UM
Speaker 1: so many politician answers, when are you running for Congress?
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'm not even trying to be. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to be, uh, you know, impartial. I just I
Speaker 1: don't have a great answer for you. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: never worry about that stuff because I was just so
Speaker 1: happy to be on set with all of you. And
Speaker 1: what's this awesome boy meets world? Aren't you have back there?
Speaker 1: That's the poster I have. I have the same one. No,
Speaker 1: not that this thing ye greatest films and television shows
Speaker 1: in Americana history, total spectrum, one end of the other. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've had that. You know. Michael gave it him many
Speaker 1: years ago. He was moving. He goes, I want He
Speaker 1: didn't say that. I said, can I have that? Because
Speaker 1: he had others? Yeah, I take it, and uh it
Speaker 1: was My wife hangs it when she's teaching. I put
Speaker 1: raging bull back on when she's not. Because I love
Speaker 1: you guys. Rangeable is my favorite movie of all time
Speaker 1: and of course, Worlds my favorite show at all time.
Speaker 1: Well and politically I should run from all you. Really,
Speaker 1: it's really good to see you. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being here with us and answering our hard hitting questions.
Speaker 1: And I know, I mean, listen Michael tell the to
Speaker 1: Peg story, but I know Sherman put it in his script,
Speaker 1: and so I know both those are facts. You just
Speaker 1: thought what that all means? Okay, fair enough, but we
Speaker 1: decide from the side yard of the backyard, you can
Speaker 1: decide why your Yeah, I see both those people, so
Speaker 1: I'm I believe everyone. And the janitor is still a ghost.
Speaker 1: I looked up. I looked him up. After this guy
Speaker 1: interviewed man, I found him and because he thought he
Speaker 1: was in another movie, he said, is that the guy
Speaker 1: from Sahasa? And it wasn't. I think writer's right. I
Speaker 1: think he was a background actor. Yeah, he was person.
Speaker 1: We should ask his d D because she might remember
Speaker 1: d D or Michael Shay because the background maybe they
Speaker 1: would remember that guy's name something right. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think d or Michael Michael shan background. So we
Speaker 1: we we appreciate, we understand that we're putting you on
Speaker 1: the spot. With certain things. But the one thing we
Speaker 1: can all agree on is how thankful we are that
Speaker 1: you came up with the idea for this podcast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for that anonymous on that I know, but
Speaker 1: it was a great idea. Thanks for inviding me on
Speaker 1: I was. But I love you, Jeff, Thank you for you.
Speaker 1: He really should be a politician. Still still no no
Speaker 1: real inside and panga backyard. No, it won't say sideyard backyard.
Speaker 1: Also won't take credit for any of the lines that
Speaker 1: we absolutely love. I know, and he says he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not humble. It's like, well, yeah, but man, that's fun.
Speaker 1: He's such a He's exactly the same now very briefly,
Speaker 1: was he the only writer that did all seven years
Speaker 1: a boy? And I think right? And what's interesting too
Speaker 1: to think about is like you know, and and I
Speaker 1: will have to when we get to second and third season.
Speaker 1: Michael stepped away from the show for Yeah, David Kendall
Speaker 1: came in as our showrunner. He started other shows, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he started Misery Loves Company and um, you wish this time?
Speaker 1: And you wish were Jeff Sherman rand you wish actually Michael,
Speaker 1: But Michael was epene but Michael actually left our show
Speaker 1: for period, Like I remember, we would have note sessions
Speaker 1: without Michael, but Minnell was always there, so you know
Speaker 1: where he was. He's actually probably the most consistent writer
Speaker 1: producer for our show from start to finish and Girl
Speaker 1: Meat's World. He was there for every episode of Girl
Speaker 1: Meets World. So Jeff YEA. Minnell has been around for
Speaker 1: all of it. Yeah. Well, I mean, truthfully, the good
Speaker 1: news is it kind of makes him a perfect guest
Speaker 1: to have on as the season's progress, because he'll be
Speaker 1: you know, he could be good at that. I know
Speaker 1: he gets nervous and doesn't like to be interviewed and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, but the fact that he's like one
Speaker 1: of the O G s and stuck around for all
Speaker 1: those years, he can come back. Well, Danielle, you weren't
Speaker 1: in every episode. I wasn't in every episode writer? Or
Speaker 1: were you in every episode of the show? Yes? You
Speaker 1: didn't skip a single one? No, And I was the
Speaker 1: only actor who had up until the last season, I
Speaker 1: had never missed a tape night. Um. And then remember
Speaker 1: that one week I got sick. I got mono and
Speaker 1: the flu on top of each other, and so I missed.
Speaker 1: I missed that tape night that was in the seventh season. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: up until then, I had been for every tape because
Speaker 1: we used to do tape nights without Ben because he
Speaker 1: would have finals every year. So so there were episodes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody else had, you know, but that was like I
Speaker 1: had never missed a tape night until that. So you
Speaker 1: and Minnell might be the only two people involved in
Speaker 1: every single episode of Boy. Why are you not? You're
Speaker 1: not in an episode? Will Well? I did. There was
Speaker 1: a couple episodes I wasn't in. There was because of
Speaker 1: Michael would come up to me and he'd put his
Speaker 1: he'd put his arm on my shoulder and he go, hey,
Speaker 1: he got we tried to work it out, didn't work out,
Speaker 1: you got a paid vacation next week, and I go, okay.
Speaker 1: And that's been several times. I think there's four or
Speaker 1: five that I'm not in. I mean, I know, like
Speaker 1: the one where you're all you're sitting on the on
Speaker 1: the sign like trying to win tickets to something bowl.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm in that one. I think maybe
Speaker 1: there's a whistling one or two I'm not in. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't do every episode all right, Well then I
Speaker 1: bet you. I mean, as far as being in every episode,
Speaker 1: it's probably be in Ben because it's definitely in every episode,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't there for every tape pipe. Yeah that's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so me Ben and Minnell, we'll figure it out, all right. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you guys for joining us for this episode of
Speaker 1: Pod Meats World. You can follow us on Instagram pod
Speaker 1: Meets World Show. You can email us at pod Meats
Speaker 1: World Show at gmail dot com, and we have shirts
Speaker 1: and stuff. It's called March pod Meets World Show dot com. Uh,
Speaker 1: join us for our next episode later in the week
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, thank you guys for being here with us.
Speaker 1: Hope you're well. I'll do our sign off this time.
Speaker 1: We love you all. Pod has missed. Pod Meets World
Speaker 1: is an i heeart podcast produced and hosted by Daniel Fisher,
Speaker 1: Wilfred l and Writer Strong Executive producers Jensen Carp and
Speaker 1: Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer
Speaker 1: and editor, Tara sud Batch, producer, Jackie Rodriguez, engineer and
Speaker 1: Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song
Speaker 1: is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon You can follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at pod meets World Show, or email us
Speaker 1: at pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com.