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Speaker 1: From our nation. All talk here in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking the

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Speaker 1: markets that performed better when there is divided government. The

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Speaker 1: biggest pressure for physical stimulus is an up taking cases

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, the insiders, the influencers, the inside. Biden

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Speaker 1: has promised again and again that he will unite the

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Speaker 1: country's state government's control elections left in the constitution. I

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Speaker 1: think that we can expect a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven m h D two.

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Speaker 1: President Trump signs the Economic Stimulus Bill. Now, how will

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Speaker 1: the nine hundred plus billion dollars be disseminated across the country. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: President Elect Joe Biden vowing to repair US foreign policy

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Speaker 1: after the Trump vacuum. We've got an exclusive interview in

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Speaker 1: the next hour with Mike Rodgers, the former Republican congressman

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Speaker 1: who chaired the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. We've

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Speaker 1: got a lot to get through. We begin tonight with

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Speaker 1: the big story, and that, of course, as President Trump

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Speaker 1: signing into law the nine hundred plus billion dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of economic stimulus. It comes following his decision a couple

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Speaker 1: of days ago to throw the plans into jeopardy, urging

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Speaker 1: lawmakers to get to some two thousand dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: stimulus checks. Well, we've got sound on the reaction from

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Speaker 1: the divide within the Republican Party. Look no further than

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Speaker 1: Governor Larry Hogan, the Republican from Maryland, on Sunday uh

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Speaker 1: saying that he well telling Jonathan Carl on ABC News

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Speaker 1: Is this Week that he mis let everyone take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what he said. Secretary Manuition worked together with

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Speaker 1: them and made commitments on behalf of the administration, and

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Speaker 1: then not eight months before or even eight days before,

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Speaker 1: but after it was passed. Then the president raises these objections.

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Speaker 1: And while Democrats like Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont were

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Speaker 1: in agreement that they wanted two thousand dollars stimulus checks,

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Speaker 1: they were not in agreement about how the President went

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Speaker 1: about the strategy. Senator Sanders spoke also on ABC's This

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Speaker 1: Week and had this to say. He said, well, yes,

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Speaker 1: I know they were intense negotiations. You passed the nine

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Speaker 1: billion dollar bill. It has you know extending unemployment or

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Speaker 1: that has direct payments sizes, this, that and everything else.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, I have now decided that I'm

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Speaker 1: going to jump into the game and I want two

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Laura Davison is Bloomberg Tax and Congress reporter,

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Speaker 1: thrilled to have her back on the program. He got

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Speaker 1: into the game, and then President Trump decided to get out.

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Speaker 1: What happened, Well, there was a whole lot of anxiety

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Speaker 1: for a couple of days, but basically we ended up

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Speaker 1: Sunday night where we would have been if you would

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Speaker 1: have signed it, you know, right after Congress passed it.

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Speaker 1: Really the only concessions that Trump got were that the House, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, agreed to go ahead and vote on this

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Speaker 1: two thousand dollar check team and didn't really agree they

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Speaker 1: wanted to do it. How Democrats said, look, we've been

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Speaker 1: pushing for this for my We're we're happy to take

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Speaker 1: you up on that, Mr President. Uh. The Senate, Trump said,

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Speaker 1: agreed to vote on both increasing at the payment amount

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Speaker 1: to two thousand dollars, as well as repealing this liability

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Speaker 1: shield for tech companies and also looking into voter fraud.

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Speaker 1: UM it's unclear exactly how the Senate is going to

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Speaker 1: approach that though it looks like, uh, you know, the

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Speaker 1: way that vote would be structured, it would almost be

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Speaker 1: certainly to fail in the Senate. So the House tonight

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Speaker 1: will vote on these two thousand dollar payments. It may pass,

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Speaker 1: it's still unclear, but if if they're able to push

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Speaker 1: it forward, that's really kind of probably where this ends.

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Speaker 1: That the Senate is not going to pick this up

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Speaker 1: and not going to vote to increase those those two

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar checks. Laura Davison's with me, Bloomberg Tax and

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Speaker 1: Congress reporter. I'm going to dive into my Bloomberg terminal

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Speaker 1: right now and pull up a great report from our

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Speaker 1: new colleague, excellent reporter, veteran political journalist, Nancy Cook, who

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Speaker 1: has just joined the Bloomberg News team, and we're thrilled

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Speaker 1: to have her on board. She's got this great story headline,

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Speaker 1: Trump got Christmas plea on aid from senator worried by

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Speaker 1: the run off off. According to the lead of Nancy

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Speaker 1: Cook's Bloomberg's Nancy Cooks reporting, Georgia Republican Senator David Purdue

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Speaker 1: lobbied President Trump last week to sign the pandemic relief

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Speaker 1: bill he'd criticized, concerned that the President's delay would harm

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Speaker 1: his and Senator Kelly Leffler's prospects in the January five

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Speaker 1: runoff elections. This according to people familiar with the matter.

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Speaker 1: In a Christmas Day phone call to President Trump, Senator

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Speaker 1: Perdue argued that the bill was vital for unemployment benefits,

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Speaker 1: coronavirus vaccination distribution, and a moratorium on evictions. Laura, gotta

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Speaker 1: be honest, Georgia on the mind of Senate Majority Leader

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell. And it looks like, according to Nancy Cook's

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Speaker 1: excellent reporting, that President Trump got a call from Senator

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Speaker 1: Purdue himself. Yes, and this is this is really Republicans

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Speaker 1: in Congress in a super awkward position of having to

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Speaker 1: walk that very fine line of supporting Trump, but but

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Speaker 1: also you know, happy he's doing things that they're not

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Speaker 1: really agreeing with right now, so you know, holding up

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Speaker 1: to still a whole bunch of stuff in there that

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Speaker 1: people are waiting on. You know, those six d dollar payments,

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Speaker 1: unemployment insurance, eviction moratorium, you know, money to it to

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Speaker 1: get vaccines rolled out, and you know, obviously this Senate

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Speaker 1: race is sort of the game in town. You know,

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Speaker 1: whether what happens with Purdue and Kelly Lefsler uh, that

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Speaker 1: determined sort of the trajectory of Washington for the next

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Speaker 1: couple of years. You know, if Mitch McConnell basically gets

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Speaker 1: to keep his job as head HANSHO and you know

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Speaker 1: who's controlling the Senate floor, which means they're controlling you know,

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Speaker 1: Biden nominees for his cabinet tradition nominees, and of course

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Speaker 1: the flow of legislation. So I want to pick apart

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Speaker 1: everything you just said, but let's start with the scenarios.

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Speaker 1: And typically, Laura, I don't do this. I don't like

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Speaker 1: to do hypotheticals. I think it's a waste. People go

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Speaker 1: crazy over it. But there's policy implications here, Laura, you

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Speaker 1: and I both know so well from all the years

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Speaker 1: he spent chasing after these lawmakers in the halls of Dirkson.

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Speaker 1: And so I bring this up because let's say Democrats

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Speaker 1: are able to pick off these two seats in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: which has become a very expensive race. The dynamics of

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Speaker 1: the committee assignments, and who has the power of the

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Speaker 1: gavel for the committees, i e. Who's setting the agenda,

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Speaker 1: who's setting the national discourse coming out of the Senate,

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Speaker 1: the upper chamber. It's going to be interested. The Democrats

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Speaker 1: would have would have chairmanship. Am I wrong? Yeah? I

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Speaker 1: mean that's that's what they're they're hoping for. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's there's all sorts of talk. You know, if there's

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Speaker 1: a fifty split, what how that shakes out? You know,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris suddenly becomes very very crucial. She's a she's

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Speaker 1: a tie breaking vote, but for the roster, but for

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Speaker 1: the roster of committee assignments and the agenda for the committee,

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Speaker 1: Senate Banking, Senate Energy, all these different committees. Democrats in

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Speaker 1: a tie would get the chairmanship, which is interesting because

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Speaker 1: of the VP elect. Yeah, it's really and it was

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Speaker 1: the Democrats have not controlled the Senate for years, so

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Speaker 1: this would be finally be a chance for them to

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Speaker 1: you know again control those experiences. They get to call

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Speaker 1: in witnesses, they get to be the one, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: they get special powers. You're asking for President Donald Trumps

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Speaker 1: tax returns, for example. There's all sorts of privileges that

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Speaker 1: come along with with the in control. It's silences, the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party if or whatever party, not just in but

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Speaker 1: in this case the Republican Party, because from a chairmanship

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Speaker 1: perspective of all of the different gavel, who has power

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Speaker 1: of that gavel, They're the ones who are going to

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Speaker 1: decide who to call. I mean, folks, take politics out

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Speaker 1: of it and just go from a policy lens. Look

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Speaker 1: at big tech for example, look at the CEOs of

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Speaker 1: bank companies. All of that's at stake with Georgia. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think you know, I want to keep talking

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Speaker 1: about that because if Democrats do win both of those seats,

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Speaker 1: there are definitely significant, significant policy implications there. You mentioned

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Speaker 1: about this two thousand dollar stimula check. I want to

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Speaker 1: come back to it for another second, Laura Davison, because

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Speaker 1: many of these Republicans are now on record, uh, some

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Speaker 1: of them saying that they think that there should be

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Speaker 1: more financial stimulus aid and checks that were made available.

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Speaker 1: You look at polls, it's it's a very bipart is

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Speaker 1: an issue. The way to do it is where there's divide. Uh. Republicans,

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Speaker 1: increasingly on on the right are are growing more vocal

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Speaker 1: about their concern of the twenties seven trillion dollar debt.

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Speaker 1: But Laura, President President elect Joe Biden's right now saying

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Speaker 1: that there has to be additional, additional financial relief in

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Speaker 1: his first one hundred days. He's going to try to

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Speaker 1: make an appeal to Senator Susan Collins and say, look,

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Speaker 1: this is a one area where I agree with President

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Speaker 1: Trump that there should be two thousand dollar stimulus checks.

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Speaker 1: That did President Trump inadvertently give President elect Joe Biden cover?

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Speaker 1: You know, he really has made things a lot easier

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Speaker 1: for Joe Biden. And you know this this simulist check issue,

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Speaker 1: as you reference you, it's created some very strange bedfellows here.

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Speaker 1: Of this is something that centrist one, the problem solvers

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Speaker 1: Caucus one, but also Bernie Sanders and Josh Holly, who

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Speaker 1: has sort of fashioned himself after Trump himself. Do you

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Speaker 1: have people from the very very right to the very

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Speaker 1: very left to the center. It's sort of the middle

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Speaker 1: right in the middle left where you kind of see

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Speaker 1: a little bit more, you know, either concern about the

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Speaker 1: deficit or concern that government's gave me too big, or

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Speaker 1: some of those more classic Washington lines. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to sending out free money politicians, or you know,

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Speaker 1: at least free to the recipients, politicians, are very excited

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Speaker 1: to do that, and we're gonna check in with a

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Speaker 1: member of the problem solvers. Cauck is coming up in

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Speaker 1: the next hour, Congressman Fred Upton, who represents a Republican

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Speaker 1: who represents Michigan sixth Congressional district. He's going to join

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Speaker 1: us to talk specifically about that. Is the House is

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Speaker 1: sets a vote on that two thousand dollar stimulus checks

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Speaker 1: Trump demand. It'll be interesting to see if any Republicans

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Speaker 1: get on board with that. Laura Davison, Happy holidays to

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Speaker 1: you and your family. Thanks so much for your great reporting,

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Speaker 1: and of course we're joining us here on Bloomberg. Sound

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Speaker 1: On Bloomberg, Tax and Congress reporter Laura Davison. Maybe we'll

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Speaker 1: get Nancy Cook to join us and the week should

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Speaker 1: just join Bloomberg. Excellent reporter. We're thrilled to have her.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin's really much more policy and politics around the corner.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. Sound On

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Speaker 1: with Kevin currelate on Bloomberg and one oh five point

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Speaker 1: seven f m h D two. I'm Kevin Surilli, Chief

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Speaker 1: Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio, wishing

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Speaker 1: everyone a very happy and healthy and safe holiday season.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you got to see the sunrise

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Speaker 1: this morning, but I was just in the break room

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Speaker 1: before coming on air, and I gotta tell you it

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Speaker 1: is a beautiful sunset. We've been really blessed to have

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Speaker 1: these incredible views of the Washington City skyline, you know,

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Speaker 1: sun rising over the Capitol Building. Just remarkable. Lots to

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Speaker 1: be grateful for, lots of lots of be grateful for.

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Speaker 1: Let's get a check on the market's US equities rallied

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Speaker 1: to records after President Donald Trump backed away from earlier

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Speaker 1: threats and signed a coronavirus aid package. The SMP five index,

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Speaker 1: Dow and dust Child, the Here we Go, Keef, Come On, Buddy,

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Speaker 1: dal Jones Industrial Average, and NASDAC Composit closed at all

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Speaker 1: time highs following Trump's surprise approval of the combined two

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Speaker 1: point three trillion dollar COVID nineteen relief and government funding package.

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Speaker 1: Germany's DAX index also rose to a record, Treasuries dipped

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Speaker 1: in the dollar strength, and pitcoin retreated after a rally

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Speaker 1: over the holiday. It pushed past twenty eight dollars for

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Speaker 1: the first time. I want to welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: program Ed Mills, Managing Director of Washington Policy at Raymond James.

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Speaker 1: Mr Mills, thank you for joining us. What happened in

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Speaker 1: the markets today, Well, I think we saw that the

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Speaker 1: market wanted to have this stimulus bill passed um and

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Speaker 1: it was with the sign into law. I think that

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Speaker 1: they're looking at with the additional UH support for the

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Speaker 1: economy that we hope we will have a bridge between

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Speaker 1: now in a post vaccine world. And if anything, the

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Speaker 1: conversation is starting about what is the next package, if

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Speaker 1: it can occur, is there going to be even more

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Speaker 1: economic support for Americans, especially those with the greatest economic need.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you about that because it's

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Speaker 1: very smart about playing it forward and the dynamics at

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Speaker 1: stake with President Electoe Biden's incoming administration, the Georgia runoff election.

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Speaker 1: We all know we've already covered how important Georgia is.

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Speaker 1: But by President Trump urging for there to be two

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Speaker 1: thousand dollar stimulus checks, does he make it okay for

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Speaker 1: centrist Republicans to get on board with that? Because President

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Speaker 1: Electoral Biden's gonna sell Senator Susan Collins come February and March.

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Speaker 1: President Trump wanted this, you know, I wanted to. I

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Speaker 1: do think so. I think that each package that has

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Speaker 1: passed through Congress has met the specific need at the time.

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Speaker 1: Early on it was about getting funding for vaccines. The

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Speaker 1: Cares Act was for the immediate shutdown. I think the

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Speaker 1: big reason why we are getting funding this time is

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Speaker 1: because we have a vaccine that can be distributed. Plus

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Speaker 1: the Kiras Act funding long ago went out for many Americans.

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Speaker 1: The next package is about what the economy looks like

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Speaker 1: at that time. Is there the opportunity to look at

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Speaker 1: infrastructure spending things to rebuild the economy. To go to

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's political talking points from the election of the

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Speaker 1: bill back better, Uh, if you have a forcing mechanism,

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Speaker 1: and you look in the bill that just got signed

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Speaker 1: into law, a lot of these provisions only last for

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Speaker 1: about ten eleven weeks. So we will be in March

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Speaker 1: with some forcing mechanisms, if Joe Biden can put together

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Speaker 1: that coalition, if Republicans will go along or not. It's

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Speaker 1: a long way between now and then. But certainly the

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Speaker 1: fight as messy as it was over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of days lays a foundation for Joe Biden to continue

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Speaker 1: to say that this was only a down payment in

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Speaker 1: anyone even at Donald Trump looking at this, uh says

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Speaker 1: more was needed, especially for the American consumer, and the

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Speaker 1: markets will have much more clarity in terms of the

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Speaker 1: path forward for a fiscal stimulus or a lack there

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Speaker 1: of on after the January George runoffs and and just

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Speaker 1: how important they are. Let me let me ask you

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Speaker 1: about this though, um as it relates to something we

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Speaker 1: haven't heard a lot about from the incoming administration, and

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Speaker 1: that's on something that you know better than anybody in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d c. And that's housing finance policy. How do you

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Speaker 1: think a president elect Joe Biden's administration is going to

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Speaker 1: take on housing finance, Kevin, It's a great question. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that we were always startled by is

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Speaker 1: that when you go through the platform of candidate Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: the housing policy platform was probably one of the most

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Speaker 1: robust areas that he lays. Four really does view home

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Speaker 1: ownership opportunities for individuals who have been left out of housing.

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Speaker 1: Home equity or the lack of home equity has a

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Speaker 1: real issue related to the wealth gap that exists in

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Speaker 1: this country. So I think that the Biden administration is

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Speaker 1: going to look at housing policy, Kevin and say, this

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Speaker 1: is the way in which we promote a fairness agenda

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Speaker 1: in building um the building blocks necessary to reduce that

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Speaker 1: wealth gap. And so I don't see how you can

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Speaker 1: do a lot of the policies a Biden administration would

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Speaker 1: like to do with housing and have a recap and

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Speaker 1: release in a privatization of Fannie and Freddy Um, I

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Speaker 1: think those two are incompatible. I think there's some personnel

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Speaker 1: changes that are likely to occur depending upon a Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court decision related to who oversees Sani and Freddi the

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Speaker 1: director of f h f A. So I do think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a core part of a Biden administration, uh,

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Speaker 1: something that he actually has the opportunity to get things

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Speaker 1: done as long as Stanni and Freddi remain under conservatorship

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Speaker 1: or the United States has a considerable say over it.

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Speaker 1: And it just hasn't gotten the coverage. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's great that you brought it up. Well, when do

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Speaker 1: you think we're going to find out the Supreme Court ruling?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm I mean, we consive into the weeds here

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Speaker 1: and about just how important it is. But for people

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Speaker 1: just coming to this top think from a fresh perspective,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they've been focusing on some other issues, just

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Speaker 1: catch us up to speed about where things stand with

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court and who should be in charge of

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Speaker 1: governing housing finance. Yeah, so the rulings are expected about

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Speaker 1: mid one in the June time period, and that's going

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Speaker 1: to give the opportunity um for the President of the

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Speaker 1: United States to either choose who he wants as a

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Speaker 1: director of f hf A the overseer of Fannie and

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Speaker 1: Freddie really the head of housing policy in the United States,

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Speaker 1: or whether or not the existing director, Director Collabria, gets

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Speaker 1: to stay in out his five year term. Now there

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Speaker 1: is a question even if he has the ability to

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Speaker 1: replace Collabria, does he do it? Does the Senate um confirm?

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Speaker 1: And that's why going back to what you highlighted is

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Speaker 1: uh that Georgia elections really are binary um. But ultimately

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Speaker 1: beyond Fannie and Freddie, there is a lot of housing

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Speaker 1: policy that can be done through housing and urban development.

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Speaker 1: Who leads the Federal Housing Administration at f a UM

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Speaker 1: and ultimately what we see from the Biden platform is

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Speaker 1: using more down payment assistance, limiting the cost of rent,

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Speaker 1: building equity among communities that have traditionally not had access

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Speaker 1: to intergenerational wealth. And just to simplify it, folks, this

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Speaker 1: case that that Ed Mills, Managing Director of Washington Policy

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Speaker 1: and Raymond James is alluding to. Essentially, it's this, As

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Speaker 1: the AP noted the other month, the structure can leave

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Speaker 1: a new president with the director chosen by the previous

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Speaker 1: president for some or all of the new president's time

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Speaker 1: in office. The President Trump appointed Mark Collabria for f

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Speaker 1: h f A, which overseas Fannie and Freddie. This case

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Speaker 1: is going to say whether or not a new administration

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Speaker 1: gets to appoint someone else or if they have to

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Speaker 1: serve out their term. It's a remarkable, remarkable case and

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Speaker 1: candidly one that has a lot of impacts for the

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Speaker 1: housing finance industry. I mean, Ed knows this, you know

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Speaker 1: better than anyone. Final word for you, Ed, what are

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Speaker 1: you going to be watching for? What's coming up next? Uh?

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Speaker 1: That's that's on your radar. Maybe something that's been in

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Speaker 1: the weeze that we haven't had enough time to talk about.

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Speaker 1: We got about a minute left. Yeah, I mean there's

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Speaker 1: still a lot of time between now in January any

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Speaker 1: last minute issues, especially as it relates to China. I

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Speaker 1: think there's some expectation that any of the last things

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Speaker 1: that Donald Trump does could be quickly overturned by a

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Speaker 1: Biden administration. But in politics, when you're explaining you're losing,

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Speaker 1: there could be a lot of last minute issues related

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Speaker 1: to China trade in whom u S companies can do

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Speaker 1: business with in China that a Trump outgoing from administration

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Speaker 1: could really walk in in the last twenty days here.

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Speaker 1: And I gotta be honest, one of the stories that

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely obsessed with is what the Communist Party of

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Speaker 1: China has or how they've chosen to deal with Jack

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Speaker 1: mob and the Ant Group. Just remarkable developments from the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party of China overnight. All right, My thanks to

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Speaker 1: Ed Mills, Managing director of the Washington Policy Managing Director

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Speaker 1: of Washington Policy at Raymond and James. I'm Kevin SURRELLI

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Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: John Celity, Scott Bolton on Deck Plus be checking with

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Speaker 1: Congressman Fred Upton. I'm Kevin Sirelli. You're listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: night and on one why from All Talk here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Historically speaking,

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Speaker 1: the markets that perform better when there is divided government.

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Speaker 1: The biggest pressure for physical stimulus is an off taking cases.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound on the insiders, the influencers, the insiders siding

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Speaker 1: has Thomas again and again. The will unite the country's

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Speaker 1: state government control elections as in the Constitution. I think

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Speaker 1: that we can expect a smooth, thoughtful, methodical transition. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg's owned on on Bloomberg. President Trump signs into

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Speaker 1: law a nine hundred billion dollar plus economic stimulus bill.

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Speaker 1: Is more relief on the way, we will ask Congressman

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Speaker 1: Fred Upton, a Republican from Michigan and a member of

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Speaker 1: the all Important Problem Solvers Caucus. Meanwhile, we'll also get

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Speaker 1: a reaction from President elect Joe Biden's foreign policy speech

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Speaker 1: earlier today from Wilmington, Delaware. The former Republican House Chairman

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Speaker 1: on the Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers, joins me as well,

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Speaker 1: A lot to get through. Hope you had a great

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Speaker 1: holiday with your family. We begin tonight with the big

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Speaker 1: story and that of course, as President Trump signing into

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Speaker 1: law nine hundred plus billion dollars worth of economic relief

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Speaker 1: and a debate and a reversal with why he changed

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Speaker 1: his mind. Nancy Cooke Bloomberg's Nancy Cooke reporting that Senator

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Speaker 1: David Purdue called President Trump on Christmas Day and asked

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Speaker 1: him to sign into law the nine plus billion dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of economic stimulus relief. It comes after an open

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Speaker 1: debate and the Republican Party about whether or not the

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Speaker 1: President should do so. And we've got sound on that

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Speaker 1: particular topic from Governor Larry Hogan, the Republican centrist from Maryland,

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Speaker 1: who spoke on ABC S this week on Sunday. Secretary

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Speaker 1: Manuition worked together with them and made commitments on behalf

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Speaker 1: of the administration. And then not eight months before or

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Speaker 1: even eight days before, but after it was passed, then

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Speaker 1: the president raises these objections. Senator Bernie Sanders, the Progressive

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Speaker 1: from Vermont, was also perplexed. He said, well, yes, I

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Speaker 1: know they were intense negotiations. You passed the nine billion

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Speaker 1: dollar bill. It has you know, extending unemployment, or it

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Speaker 1: has direct payments sizes, this that and everything else. But

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Speaker 1: you know what, I have now decided that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to jump into the game, and I want two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Scott Bolden is with me. He is a Democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: for or DC Democratic Party chairman, an attorney, and John

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Speaker 1: Siddeley's a geopolitical strategist at Trilogy Advisors and diplomacy consultants

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Speaker 1: to the US State Department. John will start with you

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Speaker 1: why the President Trump changed his mind? Well, you know

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Speaker 1: very correctly the conversation with Senator Perdue, and I think

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Speaker 1: President Trump is beginning to look at a presumptive Biden

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Speaker 1: administration and what a Trump legacy looks like after what

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Speaker 1: he considers to be a very successful term as president,

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Speaker 1: and that would be greatly endangered if both seats are

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Speaker 1: won by the Democratic candidates. And it looks like right now, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: that the Republicans and the Democrats and the Georgia Center

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Speaker 1: race are both running as tickets. So it's unlikely we'll

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Speaker 1: have a split. I mean, it could happen, but there's

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Speaker 1: probably a better chance that will have either two Republicans

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Speaker 1: winning or two Democrats winning. And I think Senator Perdue

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Speaker 1: and Senator Luffler are very much concerned that if it's

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Speaker 1: two Democrats that win. They persuaded President Trump almost his

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Speaker 1: entire legacy will be undone by a Biden administration that

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Speaker 1: controls not only the White House, obviously, but by a

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Speaker 1: Democratic part of that controls the House and the Senate.

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Speaker 1: And I think that really puts it enormously damages the

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Speaker 1: president's prospects if he decides to run for president again.

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Speaker 1: In precisely, and look, I think we've done a good

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Speaker 1: job in the media in terms of uh re upping

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Speaker 1: the notion that if it is a tie in the

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Speaker 1: Senate along party line, the Vice President in that case,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, would have the deciding vote. I want to

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Speaker 1: bring up this other point, which is if it is

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Speaker 1: a tie in the Senate, the Democrats, because they have

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Speaker 1: the White House, will will get control of the gavel.

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Speaker 1: They will be the chairs of all of the Senate committees.

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Speaker 1: So for policy that's crucial, it's of the utmost importance.

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Speaker 1: That would mean that a Democrat is the chair person

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Speaker 1: of the Senate Banking Committee. For example, that would mean

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Speaker 1: on issues pertaining to big tech, whether or not to

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Speaker 1: decide to have a hearing with big tech CEOs, which

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Speaker 1: party gets to decide that that's on the ballot in Georgia.

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Speaker 1: And so all of these other issues beyond just the

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Speaker 1: political water cooler talk that we all tried to avoid

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Speaker 1: over the holidays, are really going to be getting more

431
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: clarity come January five on the Georgia runoff. Power of

432
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: committee control is so important. Just off your old schoolhouse

433
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: rock playbook playlist, folks, because that's how a committee gets out. Uh,

434
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: how a bill gets out of committee to get to

435
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: the floor of the Senate is through committee. So committee

436
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: power and gavel, the power of the gavel is so

437
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: incredibly important. So make sure you're thinking about that as

438
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: we We will be definitely thinking of that as we

439
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: cover the Georgia Runolf Scott Bolden, I mean, did President

440
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: Trump inadvertently provide some political cover to centrist Republicans who

441
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: maybe now might be more willing to negotiate Scott Bowden,

442
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: where the President elect Biden when he says more economic

443
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: relief is needed in his first one hundred days in office. Well,

444
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: we'll have to see, but I don't think he's he's

445
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: given the moderate Republicans in Georgia any cover. They're going

446
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: to be the key to either victory or loss for

447
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: the Republicans. Can they attract them the rural voters and

448
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: Republicans and the Trump supporters who may not be R

449
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: and C supporters are certainly going to back the Republican

450
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: senators that what's up for grabs are those uh, college

451
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: educated suburban men and women who are moderate Republicans who

452
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: just don't have the taste for Trump. And the Republicans

453
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: senate candidates are running in a line with Trump support

454
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: and being a hundred percent behind Trump. I don't think

455
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,239
Speaker 1: his presidency has been a success. I think it's been

456
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: a failure. And he signed that bill because he was

457
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: going to sign that deal anyway. He was just stealing

458
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: over his loss and stewing over what he told Minution

459
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: to do. He simply was impetulant more than anything, and

460
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: so that bill was going to be signed. What's important

461
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: to note about that seven day delay or five day

462
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: delayed is that many of the programs under Care one

463
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: legislation has run out. The unemployment checks, the moratorium on

464
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: foreclosures has run out, and twenty eight billion dollars worth

465
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: of coronavirus I'm not only testing, but vaccines that were

466
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: in that bill were delayed by those five days pluss,

467
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: and the real damage was done here. Do we have

468
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: enough time to save those who are suffering the most

469
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: in this country based on this delay? It's not just

470
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: Republicans who are debating whether or not two thousand dollars

471
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: stimulus checks are a good idea. Larry Summers, former Treasury

472
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: Secretary Larry Summers, actually wrote a Bloomberg opinion column a

473
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: couple of days ago and said that he thought two

474
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: thousand and dollar stimulus checks are not a good idea.

475
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Larry Summers, of course, being having served in the Clinton administration,

476
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: we've got sound on what he said because earlier today

477
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: my colleague and I Taylor Riggs spoke with him on

478
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Television. Take a listen to Larry Summers defending his

479
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: position to come out against two thousand dollars stimulus checks.

480
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: The question isn't whether there's a need to help people.

481
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: The question is what's the best way to help people?

482
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: And my judgment is that and across the board, gift

483
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: to of taxpayers of a kind that no one thinks

484
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: can be sustained uh every quarter is a mistake. John

485
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: sit Eliz I want I want you to come in

486
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: here because Josh Holly, Senator Josh Holly has come out

487
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: in favor of this as well. I don't really think

488
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: this is as part as a as an issue as

489
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: is typically as clear cut. And we've only got about

490
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Yeah, I think Mr Summer's race is a

491
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: very important point. I mean, if we just take a

492
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: step back and ask why are couples that are earning

493
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand dollars and are continuing to

494
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: receive salaries regardless of whether or not they are going

495
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: into the office. Why do their lives need to be

496
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: stimulated economically? What we really need to do is to

497
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: target those people who have been forced out of work

498
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: by a number of these governors edicts that have locked

499
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: down the economies, not for two weeks or four weeks

500
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: or six weeks to flatten the system, to have to

501
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: make sure that we protect the healthcare system in America.

502
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: But we're now ten months into lockdowns. We have forced

503
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: many poor people into deeper poverty. We've put millions of

504
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: people into unemployment ranks, about eight million people. We need

505
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: to have more targeted support to those people whose political

506
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: leaders have forced into unemployment and poverty more. Next with

507
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: the panel and Kevin's really this is Bloomberg nine than

508
00:28:52,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: one one h h. I'm Kevin cur really, chief Washington

509
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. We are

510
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: past the darkest day of the year. Do you believe it?

511
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: When we got a great sunset tonight? And remember the

512
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: endurance of darkness means that we're closer to the summer. Uh.

513
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: And we've got a great panel. I hope you had

514
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: a great holiday with your family. Coming up, I'm going

515
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: to check in with Congressman Fred Upton, a Republican from

516
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: Michigan sixth Congressional sixth Congressional District. Yes, of Michigan. Uh.

517
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: And he of course is a member of the Problem

518
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: Solvers Caucus. Really that the group of bipartisan lawmakers that

519
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: laid the groundwork and the foundation for the nine D

520
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: plus fiscal stimulus deal. We're gonna get an update on

521
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: if two thousand dollar checks are gonna be in the

522
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: foundation and for the proposal that President elect Joe Biden

523
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: is going to likely put through as well, and an

524
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: interview with Mike Rogers, the former chairman of the House

525
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 1: Intel Committee. Between two thousand and eleven and two thousand

526
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: and fifteen. He's a Republican also from Michigan. I guess

527
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: we're focusing on Michigan today. Inadvertently joining me now is

528
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: Scott Bolden, Democratic strategist, former DC Democratic Party chairman and attorney. Scott.

529
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: I was a bit nervous about today's show, But the

530
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: Eagles have no chance of making the playoffs this year,

531
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: so the game this weekend doesn't matter. That's all I'm

532
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: gonna say. Except the one problem is they played Green Bay. Well,

533
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: I I'm well, I think we have we have you

534
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: this weekend, Scott. So I'm gonna let this go and

535
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: just move on because we are reworking the show, and

536
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: we are growing the show, elevating ourselves into two thousand

537
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: and twenty one. And as we prepare for that elevation,

538
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: the theme right of the show. We want to rework

539
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show, which is typically What's

540
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: on your Radar, but we are rebranding it. It is

541
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: the theme song. Christine. Yeah, I knew that. I wanted

542
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: to know if you knew that, Christine Barrada, our executive

543
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: producers who just put that in the chat. But we've

544
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 1: reworked what's on your radar to what's next, because here

545
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg we're all about the future. We're all about

546
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: emerging trends and whatnot, and Johnson elites what's next. All right,

547
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: I know we have to be cognizant of time here,

548
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: but let's talk a little bit about geopolitics. We've always

549
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: got to spice up the conversation with the Israelis have

550
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 1: sent a nuclear armed submarine towards the Persian Gulf and

551
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: they were allowed to pass through the Suez Canal by

552
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: the Egyptian government, which is an astonishing development in terms

553
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: of the Middle East to plumb to see. And so

554
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: you have the Egyptians essentially wink winking the Israelis and

555
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 1: routes to delivering cruise missiles in case the Iranians are

556
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: planning to retaliate on or around January third for last

557
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: year's execution of Kasam Suleimani, who you recall runs the

558
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: run's international terror organizations. So we're watching developments in the

559
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: Middle East very closely. And I would say further down

560
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: the road politically in the US, Kevin Um, I would

561
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: not be surprised if some of the more left leaning

562
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: media in the US start to get impatient with the

563
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: Biden administration, especially if there are if there's a Republican

564
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: controlled Senate, and you start to see more and more

565
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: articles either about the ethical scandals involving the president elects

566
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: son and brother, and also questions about his cognitive abilities

567
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: in order to build the pressure for a twenty fifth

568
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: Amendment move and open the pathway to a Kamala Harris

569
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: presidency by the end of one. Okay, well, first, let's

570
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: stick with geo politics because I want to go back

571
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: to this because earlier today President Elect Joe Biden gave

572
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: a speech on on foreign policy in Wilmington, Delaware, and

573
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: we've got sound on that speech and what he had

574
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: to say, and I want to get your reaction to

575
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: this sound bite. Here is in our absence from key

576
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: institutions that matter to the welfare of the American people,

577
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: in the general disengagement from the world, and all of

578
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: what makes it harder for our government to protect the

579
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: American people, Johnson, Ladies, is the Middle Eastern foreign policy

580
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: and the shifting geopolitics that you just alluded to. Is

581
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: that going to stay in a Biden administration, You know,

582
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: it remains to be seen. First, let me just to

583
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: offer a different perspective if I Mike Kevin, because there's

584
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: always this criticism of a quote unquote isolation is Trump

585
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: policy because of the America First Declaration, But the President

586
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: never said America alone, America First, as as any leader

587
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: of any country, of any government if they're acting responsibly.

588
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: And in the Middle East, we've developed brand new alliances

589
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: between a number of Sunni Arab countries and Israel. President

590
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: Biden or President elect Biden in his administration, if he

591
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: starts to move the focus far more towards supporting Iran

592
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: again as was the case under the Obama administration, we

593
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: could see an unfurling of this brand new peace process

594
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: between Arab countries and Israel in ways that could endanger

595
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: what's been developing in recent years. So I think the

596
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: energy that a President Biden puts into restoring Iran as

597
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: the regional hegemon, enriching Iran and allowing it to and

598
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: conduct international terrorist operations throughout the Middle East against Europe

599
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: and against the US could be a bell weather for

600
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: whether or not just region unravels. Interesting what's next? Yeah,

601
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: I don't think this administration is going to do that

602
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: with Iran and and Trump's implementation of America First has

603
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: meant beast internationally America a loan. I think that will change. Uh.

604
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: What's next is after the GEO, after the Senate racest

605
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: the results, regardless what happens in Georgia. Uh, it's gonna

606
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: be close on both sides in the House and the Senate.

607
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: How does each party keep their party members in live?

608
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: For example, the Dems, if they get control of the

609
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: Senate and the House. Uh, if it's fifty fifty, can

610
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: they keep the moderate or conservative Democratic senators in line

611
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: on close votes? That remains that we've seen. The GOLP

612
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: was effective in the last four years in doing that

613
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: on the Senate side when they had to push their

614
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: agenda forward. It's not clear that the Democrats will be

615
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: able to do that. Secondly, what damage, what actual damage

616
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: to the institutions will the Democratic administration of the Biden

617
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: administration find out about and what will be leaked to

618
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: the public after January one hardcore direct or just policy wise,

619
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna find out how much damage internationally and domestically, Uh,

620
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: this Trump administration and what state it's left this country

621
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: and the agencies in Scott bold we gotta leave it there.

622
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: You gotta leave it there, Scott Bolden. I'm not cutting

623
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: you off because you're a Washington football team fan, I

624
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: promised Scott Bolden, Democratic strategist, former DC Democratic Party chairman

625
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 1: and attorney John sit A. Ladies, John and Mappy, holidays

626
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: to to you and the families. Tell them, I said,

627
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: happy holidays. Geo political strategist at Trilogy Advisors and diplomacy

628
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 1: consultant at the State's Department, John, thank you so much.

629
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: Coming up next me checking with Congressman Fred Upton. You

630
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: don't want to miss this interview. It's a conversation about

631
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: what's next for economic relief. He's a member of the

632
00:36:54,160 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: Problem Solvers caucause you're listening to Bloomberg nd I one action.

633
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin CURRELLI, chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and

634
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Radio. I just want to dive into my

635
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal now to give an update on a vote

636
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: that the House of Representatives is set to take up

637
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: the House to sets a vote on two thousand dollars

638
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: stimulus checks uh that President Trump has to mate demanded

639
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: and the bill needs Republican support for two thirds majority

640
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: to pass on Monday later today. The increased payments are

641
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: really seen as unlikely to clear the Republican Senate, but

642
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: it does have implications for what President elect Joe Biden

643
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: can glean from this information. And here's what I mean

644
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: by that. Let's read first from the Bloomberg Terminal, Eric

645
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: Wasson and Laura Davison's reporting House to sets to vote

646
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: Monday to replace the six hundred dollar stimulus payments in

647
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: the newly enacted Pandemic Relief Law with the two thousand

648
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: dollar President Donald Trump demanded a Democratic led effort that

649
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: is politically fraught for Congressional Republicans and unlikely to become law.

650
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: The bill would need two thirds support to clear the

651
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: House under the procedure being used for the vote, and

652
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: it remains unclear if Republicans will shelve their opposition to

653
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: higher payments, partly driven by deficit concerns, to support Trump's request.

654
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: But that's a great report from Eric Ross and Laura Davison.

655
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: But let's say there's a handful of Republicans in the Senate,

656
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: people like Senator Susan Collins. Let's say they take a

657
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: position on this. What they will be doing is signaling

658
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: to the incoming administration that if there is another round

659
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: economic stimulus relief, that they will be the ones to

660
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: get on board with it, that they will be the

661
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: Republicans who are willing to compromise with President Elect Joe

662
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: Biden once he has sworn in to office. And that

663
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: is a conversation that I want to take to our

664
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: next guest. Well, actually I want to pivot now because

665
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm told that we have former House Intelligence Committee Chairman

666
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: Mike Rogers with us. Mr Chairman, Rather, thank you so

667
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: much for joining us, and we'll come back, folks to

668
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: the stimulus conversation, but we will talk about the other

669
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: ongoing situation, which is the UH cyber hack. And you

670
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 1: had this great column, Mr Chairman, in the Wall Street

671
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: Journal the other week that and I said, we have

672
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: to get him on because when you served on the

673
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: Intel Committee and now you're at IronNet cyber Security, you

674
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: have this headlined Wall Street Journal op ed that says

675
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: the cyber threat is real and growing. The Solar Winds

676
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: breach could be the most significant cyber incident American history.

677
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: Russian intelligence likely the SDR the Foreign intelligence branch infiltrated

678
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: and sat undetected on the US government networks for nearly

679
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: ten months. What should change, Mike Rogers? How can we

680
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: better protect our digital infrastructure? Well, first, for the government side,

681
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: we we still do it in a disjointed way. So

682
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: we I think we need a forcing function at the

683
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: federal government to coordinate a defense that is coordinated. In fact,

684
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: that all of these agents, including the civilian agencies UH

685
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: need to be better integrated when it comes to security.

686
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: So what happens on the civilian side. So that's why

687
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: I think you looked at the organizations like Treasury and

688
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: others that weren't d O D hardened or intelligence hardened,

689
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: and they and they were able to move around in

690
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: some of those networks from some period of time. It's

691
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: because somebody used solar wind. Nobody was doing the red

692
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: teaming on it. If you use it, I'll use it.

693
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: We'll keep going. No real coordinated effort to make sure

694
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: that all of the supply chain is a coordinated defense post.

695
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: And that's really what we're missing. So they spend their

696
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: own money, they buy their own products, and I just

697
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: I think we're going to have to do a much

698
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: better job on the cyber defense piece and then again

699
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: start ramping up some offensive capability to make sure that

700
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: our adversaries understand that we won't take it. Well, that's

701
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: where I want to bring the conversation to, is what

702
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: should the U S response be, because it all it

703
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: oftentimes feels like we get these hacks and no one

704
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: there's no response from the U S. Well, sometimes you

705
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: won't see it, and that's a good thing. We want

706
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: to be able to do disruptive operations against um you know,

707
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: pretty hard targets. So either are near puer adversaries in

708
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: cyber warfare, the Russians, the Chinese, um others are going

709
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, there are things that do happen that allow

710
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: them to understand that we're there. What we haven't really

711
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: done is figured out policy of what is an appropriate

712
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: offensive response to something like this. This is this is

713
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: time time infinitem. I remember debating this issue in classified

714
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: spaces over ten years ago now and we were having

715
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: a hard time to coming to a conclusion then about

716
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: what would constitute an offensive reaction. And I know they

717
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: still have some problems today. Well, you don't want to

718
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: do is escalate it to something that gets more kinetic

719
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: or more serious in cyberspace. So there are some things

720
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: that we have to consider, but we need a better

721
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 1: coordinated effort. I argue that we need a cyber Director

722
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: that is in the White House, that's part of the

723
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: National Security Council structure, that has the ability to bring

724
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: these big personalities and I'm not talking about individuals, I'm

725
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: talking about agencies into a room, kind of clunk their

726
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: heads together, say this is how we're going to spend

727
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: our money. This is the kind of testing we're going

728
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: to do to make sure we're okay. And oh, by

729
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: the way, this is the kind of offensive activity we

730
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: need to have to make sure that our adversaries understand

731
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 1: that we will you know, there'll be consequences for your actions.

732
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: Do you think that a Biden administration would be open

733
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: to having a National Cyber Director? Well, I do, And

734
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: if the n d A gets over ridden, there's a

735
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: provision in there, and I testified for this in the

736
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: summer that would create one. And I have to tell

737
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: you I am not for more government laying more bureaucracy.

738
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: On the fact, I opposed this when I was chairman,

739
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: to have the cyber Director, but looking at you know,

740
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: the end of the Bush administration, the Obama administration, than

741
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, and everybody says, well, no, we got it,

742
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: and candidly nobody has it. And because of the way

743
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: it's bifurcated in the way we defend our networks across

744
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: the government, I came to the conclusion we absolutely have

745
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: to have a forcing function, and the only way to

746
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: do that have someone that sits above all of those agencies, uh,

747
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: and can have an impact that both on their budgets

748
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: and their policy. And so I agreed that was the

749
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: right way to do it. Shouldn't be huge, It shouldn't

750
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: be you know, people with more. You know, you shouldn't

751
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: create more inboxes for the sake of creating inboxing. Yes,

752
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: well exactly, well completely, And you know the people too,

753
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: many people have red cards, meaning a lot of people

754
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: can say no, but very few people can say yes. Uh.

755
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: People are a little nervous about making kind of decisions

756
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 1: in cyberspace and other agencies that aren't defense and intelligence.

757
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: So we we can we can fix that. We have

758
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: the ability give that forcing function. As I said, don't

759
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 1: create more inboxes. We don't want a department of redundancy,

760
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: department but what we do need is somebody that can

761
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: clang heads and say, here's the kind of way we're

762
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: marching out, here's the standards you need to meet. And

763
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 1: this is the this is the dicey part. The National

764
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: Security Agency is the best player on the field, bar

765
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: none in the world. We need to get them engaged

766
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: in helping defend all of our government agencies um in

767
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: a way that's I think more conducive to a better

768
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: outcome and having better relationships with our private sector. You know,

769
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: years wi ago when when Edward Snowden punched out and

770
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: stole over a million documents and and ran off to Russia,

771
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: people got nervous and said the n s A is bad.

772
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: That was I think the wrong narrative, and we're gonna

773
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: have to change that. Do you want your information defended? Well,

774
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: why would we put the best player on the sideline

775
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: during the biggest game, which is now no one? No

776
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: one hears about all of the good things that those

777
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: agencies do, because you know, you never you never hear

778
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: about them. It's not it's not how they're designed. I

779
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: have to leave it there. I have so many questions

780
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 1: for you. Mike Rodgers, former Republican congressman from Michigan said

781
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: Congressional district, and of course the former chairman of the

782
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: House and Cell Committee. Promise me you'll come back on

783
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: because I want to talk to you about how the

784
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: US should deal with the geopolitics on the issue of

785
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: cyber which is so important, and so please come back

786
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: on and talk to us about that. Okay, I'd love

787
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: to do it. Thanks, all right, I appreciate that very much.

788
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: Thank you too. Former House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rodgers,

789
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: and he is now the director at iron Net cyber Security.

790
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: Coming up, we're gonna check in with Congressman Fred Upton.

791
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: He's just voted on the House floor and I am

792
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: told he is standing by. I'm Kevin CURRELLI chief Washington

793
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. You're listening

794
00:46:31,640 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Breaking. I'm Kevin Siilli, chief Washington correspondent for

795
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. We're talking all things economic,

796
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: stimulus and previewing the next Congress with the incoming Biden administration.

797
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: We're thrilled to welcome back to the program Congressman Fred Upton.

798
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: He is a Republican representing Michigan's sixth congressional district. He

799
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: is a member of the Problem Servers Caucus, which of

800
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: course was the driving force behind the Economic Fiscal Stimulus

801
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: Relief Bill, nine billion dollars worth of which has has

802
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: now been signed into law. Congressman, you've got this other

803
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: movement now in the House of rep First of all,

804
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: thanks for being here. But you've got this other movement

805
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: now in the House of Representatives about there being two

806
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: thousand dollars stimulus checks. First of all, how are you

807
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 1: going to vote for it? And does this thing have

808
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: a light? Uh? To have a chance of daylight? I

809
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: don't know, ye does does this thing have a shot? Well, um,

810
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: I can answer all of those. The vote is on

811
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: right now. In fact, I have voted already. I voted

812
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: in favor of it. But I'll tell you you know this,

813
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: this this uh, and the votes are really in question,

814
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: as you mean, as you do know. It has to pass,

815
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: is what we say, under a suspension of the rules,

816
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: which means no amendments. But it therefore doesn't pass by

817
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: a majority, but it has to pass by a two

818
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: thirds vote, and right now it's failing that, which means

819
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: it could be a long night here. We'll see what happens.

820
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: But but here's how this all worked out. The goal

821
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: post changed a bunch of times. I'm one of the

822
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: vice chairs the Bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus. We've really been

823
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: meetings since June or July to try to get this

824
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: next COVID package done, uh with you know, leadership on

825
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: both sides, the White House, the Senate, everybody and their

826
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: sister and brother. And at the end they said, okay,

827
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: it's got to be nine billion dollars. It can't go

828
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: over a trillion. Remember that Nancy Posy had a couple

829
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: of visions over three trillion. Those were all dead on

830
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: arrival in the Senate. They narrowly passed in the House.

831
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 1: I voted against those, But at the end of the day,

832
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: they said it had to be under a trillion dollars.

833
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: So we came up with what we thought was a

834
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: pretty good plan. They had money for PPP, had money

835
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: for broadband, We had money for the states for unemployment.

836
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: And folks aren't no longer going to get paid more

837
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: not working than they did on the job because we

838
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,720
Speaker 1: reduced those checks, those weekly checks from six hundred dollars

839
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: to three hundred dollars. We worked with our schools, we

840
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: worked with testing and vaccines. I mean, it was it was.

841
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: It was a big, big, big issue, and somehow it

842
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: all worked and we did stimulus checks at six hundred

843
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: dollars per person, and all of a sudden, the President said, oh,

844
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be two thousand. Well, two thousand

845
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: obviously takes it way over the nine billion dollars, a

846
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: cap that we had surprised us all, but of Pelosi's

847
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: pretty smart, she said, President, once two thousand will do that,

848
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: and so she would like a forty eight hour notice.

849
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: Decided to bring this bill up to succumb to the

850
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: President's request, and it ultimately will pass here in the House,

851
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: either under suspension or under a majority vote. I'm not

852
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: sure what the outcome will be in the Senate, but

853
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: the President said, you know, we need to do this

854
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: for folks, And he was not directly involved in these discussions.

855
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: Secretary Treasury minution was uh, and we all thought we

856
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: had a handshake deal. Administration supported it, Leadership on both

857
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: sides supported it. When we passed it last week with

858
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: three votes here in the House and votes in the Senate,

859
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: but President President held it at bay a little bit,

860
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: and so this is this will be an ad day.

861
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: Even though it'll go here in the House, I'm not

862
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: sure the Senate will take it up. Do they need

863
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: If the Senate does take it up, do they just

864
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 1: need fifty plus or do they It doesn't have a shot,

865
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't any any and it still needs sixties the

866
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: rules that they still you know, it needs sixty or

867
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: or unanimous consent. They're not going to get that, so

868
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: they would they would have to have sixty votes to

869
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: even consider this bill on the Senate floor. Well, let

870
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: me follow up with you here. Because you voted for

871
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: for two thou dollar stimulus checks, does that mean that

872
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: when President elect Biden takes over that you would still

873
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: be in favor? And I'm not you know, I'm asking you,

874
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: but also members like you who represent conservative constituencies like

875
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: you that are a bit more moderate and centrist. Could

876
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,479
Speaker 1: the two thousand dollar check come about in February or March?

877
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: So the answer is yes, it could come about. But

878
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: but again it's going to be just like this was

879
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: a package. You know, I had money for small business,

880
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: had money for our hospitals, and our health care providers,

881
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: money for our schools. I mean, all these different things.

882
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: There were a couple of big pieces that were not

883
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: part of this uh and and they were originally part

884
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: of the nine billion, but then when they fell out,

885
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: then that's when the six dollar stimulus checked came back

886
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: in because that wasn't in the original proposal that we

887
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: unveiled back in uh you know, a few weeks ago.

888
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: But the things that weren't as part of this was

889
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: money for state and locals. And though we're not talking

890
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: about bailing out pension systems that are you know, on

891
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: trouble and states or localities, we're talking about actual COVID

892
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: expenses or actual revenue losses, you know, sales tax revenue

893
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: laws or gas tax revenue laws. UH. An issue that

894
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: we've worked really hard on and we failed. Just at

895
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: the very end, I thought we were pretty donne close,

896
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: and that was liability protections for small businesses uh and

897
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: UH but the two were in essence tied together. We

898
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: couldn't get the liability, so that's why the state and

899
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: local moneys dropped out. But at the end, you know,

900
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: they'll probably will be another COVID package, probably early spring,

901
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: late winter. All of those will be on the table.

902
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: It will be part of a package. I don't think

903
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: anything will go separately as a separate item. But frankly,

904
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: we'll see where the economy is well. We'll find out,

905
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, did we really get the vaccine? Uh? Do

906
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: we really vaccinate a hundred million Americans before the end

907
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 1: of March? The relitches between now and then. They'll look

908
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: at a whole number of factors, but this will be

909
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: part of it, probably another stimulus check, assuming that the

910
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: two thousand doesn't go through. In the Senate congresson Mic

911
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: Rodgers is with US Republican congressman representing Michigan's I'm sorry,

912
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: Congressman Fred Upton. I'm staring at the rundown. Congressman Upton

913
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: literally staring at the rundown, and I looked at the

914
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: wrong block. I know who I'm interviewing. I promise you

915
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: of Michigan six you know. Yeah, we had to Mike

916
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: Rodgers too. Republican members of Congress at the same time,

917
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: by the name of Mike Rogers, both Republicans, we call

918
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: the Mike Rogers from Michigan, the good Mike Rodgers. Between

919
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: the two, he's a very good friend and he was

920
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: just a good friends. But yeah, yeah, I know I listened.

921
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: I listened to well, thank you. Congressman Fred Upton still

922
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: with me is a Republican representing Michigan sixth Congressional district

923
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: and a member of the Problem Solvers Caucus. I've got

924
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: ninety seconds left, but I did want to ask you

925
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: this question, and next time you come back on, I

926
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: do want to talk to energy policy, especially at Biden

927
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: rejoins the Paris Climate Accords or tries to read enter

928
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 1: it or and whatnot. I really want to pick your

929
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: brain on that, Congressman Upton, So please come back on

930
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 1: the program and talk about that with me. What should

931
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: Congress is New Year's resolution be oh forget this year?

932
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: We need we need to We need the problem solvers

933
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: of the caucus that I'm in. You know, it's it'll

934
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: be fascinating to watch. You're you're an insider, you'll see this.

935
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: But the margin is going to be closer. We've got

936
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: divided government. The only way things happen is if if

937
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: you have Republicans and Democrats work together, which is why

938
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: the Problem Solvers Caucus had a big had a big

939
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 1: role to play on this, on this huge package now

940
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: and we'll be even larger in the next Congress. Our

941
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: numbers are growing. It's it's really I can't stress this enough.

942
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really remarkable because it's the one group

943
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 1: that has grown in clout in in the post two

944
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: thousand and eight crisis world that could serve as a

945
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: counter two groups like the House Freedom Caucus. Congressman Fred Upton,

946
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: a Republican representing Michigan six congressional districts, so incredibly grateful

947
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: for your time, so joining us literally right after he

948
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: voted on the House floor, a member of the Problem

949
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: Solvers Caucus. Appreciate his time, and he'll be back on

950
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: UH to talk about his work on energy policy, which

951
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: of course we want to hear him talk about as well.

952
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: And Kevin's really you're listening to. Bloomberg was a