1 00:00:16,271 --> 00:00:22,831 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Leon here, Before we get to this episode, 2 00:00:22,911 --> 00:00:24,511 Speaker 1: I want to let you know that you can binge 3 00:00:24,551 --> 00:00:28,310 Speaker 1: the entire season of Fiasco Iran Contra right now, add 4 00:00:28,431 --> 00:00:32,071 Speaker 1: free by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Sign up for 5 00:00:32,111 --> 00:00:35,510 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on the Fiasco Apple podcast show page, or 6 00:00:35,671 --> 00:00:39,911 Speaker 1: visit Pushkin dot Fm slash Plus. Now onto the show. 7 00:00:49,111 --> 00:00:50,671 Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan makes his debut. 8 00:00:50,711 --> 00:00:52,991 Speaker 3: Today is America's leading map. 9 00:00:57,471 --> 00:01:00,551 Speaker 1: On the morning of January twentieth, nineteen eighty one, the 10 00:01:00,591 --> 00:01:03,351 Speaker 1: White House was preparing for the arrival of a new president, 11 00:01:04,391 --> 00:01:07,871 Speaker 1: but some unfinished business was threatening to overshadow the festivities. 12 00:01:07,991 --> 00:01:11,111 Speaker 4: I Reagan may be the first president the day's top 13 00:01:11,151 --> 00:01:13,191 Speaker 4: news story on his inauguration day. 14 00:01:13,311 --> 00:01:15,511 Speaker 3: There's Angxiat that hangs over everything. 15 00:01:15,631 --> 00:01:17,511 Speaker 5: This whole business of the hostages. 16 00:01:19,271 --> 00:01:21,751 Speaker 1: This whole business of the hostages referred to more than 17 00:01:21,791 --> 00:01:24,751 Speaker 1: fifty American citizens who were being held prisoner in Iran. 18 00:01:26,071 --> 00:01:28,310 Speaker 1: They had been there for more than a year, locked 19 00:01:28,351 --> 00:01:30,991 Speaker 1: inside the US Embassy in Tehran by a group of 20 00:01:31,031 --> 00:01:31,791 Speaker 1: young radicals. 21 00:01:32,111 --> 00:01:34,951 Speaker 6: The US Embassy in Tehran has been invaded and occupied 22 00:01:34,951 --> 00:01:36,071 Speaker 6: by Iranian students. 23 00:01:36,191 --> 00:01:39,951 Speaker 7: The American hostages were blindfolded, handcuffed, and marched out on 24 00:01:39,991 --> 00:01:43,591 Speaker 7: the US Embassy's front steps by the revolutionary students. The 25 00:01:43,631 --> 00:01:46,711 Speaker 7: Iranians had fought US Marine guards for three hours for 26 00:01:46,831 --> 00:01:47,991 Speaker 7: control of the embassy. 27 00:01:48,311 --> 00:01:51,511 Speaker 1: The hostage crisis started in November of nineteen seventy nine. 28 00:01:51,951 --> 00:01:55,031 Speaker 1: Iran had just undergone a revolution a few months earlier. 29 00:01:55,711 --> 00:01:59,231 Speaker 1: The Shah, Iran's long serving US backed leader had been 30 00:01:59,271 --> 00:02:03,631 Speaker 1: overthrown and exiled. Islamic fundamentalists who called America the Great 31 00:02:03,671 --> 00:02:08,271 Speaker 1: Satan had taken power. American news networks reported that Iran's 32 00:02:08,270 --> 00:02:11,951 Speaker 1: new Supreme Leader, the Ayatola Rujuola Komeni, had given the 33 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:13,311 Speaker 1: hostage takers his blessing. 34 00:02:13,791 --> 00:02:16,991 Speaker 6: The move has the Iola's personal support, which adds to 35 00:02:17,071 --> 00:02:20,431 Speaker 6: Washington's difficulty in trying to resolve this dangerous situation. 36 00:02:21,751 --> 00:02:25,151 Speaker 1: President Jimmy Carter tried to pressure Iran into releasing the hostages. 37 00:02:26,111 --> 00:02:29,631 Speaker 1: His administration cut diplomatic ties with the Komeni government, and 38 00:02:29,671 --> 00:02:33,791 Speaker 1: they froze Iranian state assets in US banks. Carter even 39 00:02:33,791 --> 00:02:36,791 Speaker 1: authorized the secret rescue mission, but it ended in disaster. 40 00:02:37,151 --> 00:02:40,351 Speaker 2: Thousands of jubile and Iranians gathered outside to celebrate the 41 00:02:40,351 --> 00:02:42,191 Speaker 2: defeat and disgrace of America. 42 00:02:42,311 --> 00:02:44,951 Speaker 8: The United States tried to free the hostages and failed. 43 00:02:45,391 --> 00:02:48,471 Speaker 1: None of the hostages were released, and eight American servicemen 44 00:02:48,551 --> 00:02:52,551 Speaker 1: were killed in a helicopter crash. The failed mission made 45 00:02:52,631 --> 00:02:57,111 Speaker 1: Carter look hapless and ineffective, and the crisis continued. Americans 46 00:02:57,151 --> 00:03:01,031 Speaker 1: turned on their televisions for nightly updates. Walter Cronkite began 47 00:03:01,111 --> 00:03:03,631 Speaker 1: signing off at the end of every broadcast by noting 48 00:03:03,631 --> 00:03:05,991 Speaker 1: the number of days the Americans had been held captive. 49 00:03:06,471 --> 00:03:09,631 Speaker 3: That's the word it is. Tuesday, February nineteenth, nineteen eighty 50 00:03:10,071 --> 00:03:12,671 Speaker 3: undred and eighth day of captivity, two hundred and twenty 51 00:03:12,711 --> 00:03:15,671 Speaker 3: second day of captivity, three hundred and seventy seventh day 52 00:03:15,711 --> 00:03:17,511 Speaker 3: of captivity for American hostages. 53 00:03:17,511 --> 00:03:21,271 Speaker 1: Inter rat Carter's efforts to win the hostages release stretched 54 00:03:21,271 --> 00:03:22,631 Speaker 1: into his re election campaign. 55 00:03:22,991 --> 00:03:26,071 Speaker 9: The Republicans are itching to turn the hostage crisis against 56 00:03:26,111 --> 00:03:26,911 Speaker 9: the administration. 57 00:03:27,151 --> 00:03:29,631 Speaker 2: The administration has boxed it so bad that we're left 58 00:03:29,631 --> 00:03:30,671 Speaker 2: with very few options. 59 00:03:30,831 --> 00:03:35,551 Speaker 10: The hostage issue hovered over the whole campaign, and it 60 00:03:35,751 --> 00:03:38,231 Speaker 10: was something that just so damaged Carter. 61 00:03:38,951 --> 00:03:42,271 Speaker 1: That's journalist Jane Mayer, who covered the Reagan administration for 62 00:03:42,311 --> 00:03:45,991 Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal and co authored the book Landslide. 63 00:03:45,511 --> 00:03:49,711 Speaker 10: And the idea of Carter being weak was really the 64 00:03:49,831 --> 00:03:53,031 Speaker 10: thing that was hammered over and over again and played 65 00:03:53,031 --> 00:03:54,391 Speaker 10: a big part in why he lost. 66 00:03:58,191 --> 00:04:01,511 Speaker 1: Reagan's inauguration in nineteen eighty one marked the four hundred 67 00:04:01,511 --> 00:04:04,991 Speaker 1: and forty fourth day of the hostage crisis. The outgoing 68 00:04:05,031 --> 00:04:07,471 Speaker 1: Carter administration had hoped it would be the last. 69 00:04:07,911 --> 00:04:10,631 Speaker 5: This has been quite a suspense evening. 70 00:04:10,711 --> 00:04:13,591 Speaker 10: Jimmy Carter, his last night in the White House, spent 71 00:04:13,631 --> 00:04:15,871 Speaker 10: it in the Oval Office working with his aids. 72 00:04:16,311 --> 00:04:18,510 Speaker 1: The day before, they had notified the press that a 73 00:04:18,551 --> 00:04:21,950 Speaker 1: deal had been reached to finally free the Americans, but 74 00:04:22,031 --> 00:04:23,951 Speaker 1: the hostages were still not home. 75 00:04:25,311 --> 00:04:27,271 Speaker 10: In the United States to be Carter. 76 00:04:28,111 --> 00:04:31,351 Speaker 1: At the inauguration ceremony, Carter walked to the dais where 77 00:04:31,391 --> 00:04:34,991 Speaker 1: Reagan was about to be sworn in. Even then, reporters 78 00:04:34,991 --> 00:04:37,791 Speaker 1: were yelling out to him for confirmation that the hostages 79 00:04:37,831 --> 00:04:38,591 Speaker 1: were being released. 80 00:04:39,831 --> 00:04:40,711 Speaker 11: Whether you could hear or not. 81 00:04:40,911 --> 00:04:43,391 Speaker 12: The President at Carter, which just passed if the hostagers 82 00:04:43,391 --> 00:04:47,711 Speaker 12: are out, and he responded saying not yet, not yet. 83 00:04:50,191 --> 00:04:52,751 Speaker 1: The Iranians were not going to release the hostages on 84 00:04:52,831 --> 00:04:56,630 Speaker 1: Carter's watch. They waited until after Reagan was sworn in. 85 00:04:56,791 --> 00:05:01,111 Speaker 1: Before allowing them to leave Tehran. As Carter traveled home 86 00:05:01,111 --> 00:05:04,191 Speaker 1: to Georgia, Reagan got to announce the good news. 87 00:05:04,391 --> 00:05:06,071 Speaker 13: Some thirty minutes ago. 88 00:05:07,511 --> 00:05:14,431 Speaker 12: The planes bearing our prison left Iranian airspace and are 89 00:05:14,511 --> 00:05:15,791 Speaker 12: now breathed. 90 00:05:16,991 --> 00:05:19,431 Speaker 2: But it had been a wrenching day for mister Carter, 91 00:05:19,951 --> 00:05:23,071 Speaker 2: and aide said he had been terribly hurt and disappointed 92 00:05:23,271 --> 00:05:25,351 Speaker 2: when he was not able to announce the release of 93 00:05:25,391 --> 00:05:27,671 Speaker 2: the hostages before leaving alf Us this morning. 94 00:05:28,151 --> 00:05:32,831 Speaker 10: The simultaneous inauguration of Reagan and the hostages getting out 95 00:05:32,951 --> 00:05:36,070 Speaker 10: enabled him to take full credit for it and sort 96 00:05:36,111 --> 00:05:38,151 Speaker 10: of appear to be the savior. 97 00:05:38,791 --> 00:05:41,671 Speaker 1: A week later, Reagan welcomed the hostages home in a 98 00:05:41,711 --> 00:05:42,951 Speaker 1: ceremony in the Rose. 99 00:05:42,711 --> 00:05:45,511 Speaker 5: Gardens at the White House, a welcome fit for a king, 100 00:05:45,631 --> 00:05:49,191 Speaker 5: a kind of South Lawn ceremony usually reserved for visiting. 101 00:05:48,871 --> 00:05:49,710 Speaker 13: Heads of states. 102 00:05:52,231 --> 00:05:58,471 Speaker 12: Welcome home, you are home, and believe me, you are welcome. 103 00:05:59,351 --> 00:06:02,311 Speaker 1: But the triumphant moment also created a liability for the 104 00:06:02,351 --> 00:06:03,231 Speaker 1: Reagan administration. 105 00:06:03,751 --> 00:06:07,551 Speaker 10: It so publicly associated them with this act that it 106 00:06:07,711 --> 00:06:11,391 Speaker 10: upped the anti for Reagan. He was more vulnerable than 107 00:06:11,391 --> 00:06:14,031 Speaker 10: maybe other presidents would have been to being manipulated on 108 00:06:14,071 --> 00:06:17,031 Speaker 10: the issue because he'd made this sort of his selling point. 109 00:06:18,031 --> 00:06:21,631 Speaker 1: Later, one of Reagan's counter terrorism analysts expressed regret over 110 00:06:21,671 --> 00:06:25,671 Speaker 1: the spectacle. Where did we first go wrong? Nineteen eighty one? 111 00:06:25,751 --> 00:06:29,231 Speaker 1: He said, once we had the Rose Garden ceremony, we 112 00:06:29,311 --> 00:06:32,991 Speaker 1: had attached huge political benefits to the return of US hostages. 113 00:06:34,871 --> 00:06:37,631 Speaker 1: In other words, Reagan had set himself up for a 114 00:06:37,671 --> 00:06:42,711 Speaker 1: potential hostage crisis of his own. I'm Leon Nevak from 115 00:06:42,751 --> 00:06:48,351 Speaker 1: Prolog Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco iran contrast. 116 00:06:47,911 --> 00:06:52,031 Speaker 14: Seven Americans kidnapped over the past fifteen months, seven Americans 117 00:06:52,111 --> 00:06:52,991 Speaker 14: who have disappeared. 118 00:06:53,031 --> 00:06:56,151 Speaker 15: The Reagan administration's response to the series of kidnappings has 119 00:06:56,191 --> 00:06:57,751 Speaker 15: been one of almost total silence. 120 00:06:57,871 --> 00:07:00,271 Speaker 16: They did not want to have a hostage problem like 121 00:07:00,351 --> 00:07:01,271 Speaker 16: Jimmy Carter has. 122 00:07:01,351 --> 00:07:03,031 Speaker 10: Maybe they can get the hostages out. 123 00:07:03,191 --> 00:07:05,111 Speaker 1: I can't assure you that no deal was made. 124 00:07:05,191 --> 00:07:07,191 Speaker 6: The impression left by all of this is that things 125 00:07:07,191 --> 00:07:07,671 Speaker 6: are afoot. 126 00:07:07,791 --> 00:07:12,071 Speaker 17: The only person that could have stopped me, and I 127 00:07:12,111 --> 00:07:12,791 Speaker 17: didn't do it. 128 00:07:16,951 --> 00:07:21,671 Speaker 1: Episode two, Trade Secrets how Ronald Reagan tried to avoid 129 00:07:21,751 --> 00:07:24,671 Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter's fate by extending a hand to one of 130 00:07:24,711 --> 00:07:38,391 Speaker 1: America's sworn enemies. We'll be right back. Among the advisors 131 00:07:38,391 --> 00:07:40,711 Speaker 1: and aides who joined Ronald Reagan in the White House 132 00:07:41,271 --> 00:07:44,671 Speaker 1: was a soft spoken and cerebral retired Marine named Robert 133 00:07:44,751 --> 00:07:50,551 Speaker 1: Bud McFarlane. McFarlane's domain was foreign policy. As a student 134 00:07:50,591 --> 00:07:53,071 Speaker 1: at the US Naval Academy, he had longed to have 135 00:07:53,111 --> 00:07:55,591 Speaker 1: a hand in shaping America's relationship to the rest of 136 00:07:55,631 --> 00:07:56,351 Speaker 1: the world. 137 00:07:56,631 --> 00:07:59,471 Speaker 17: And I had to think with all the rigor I 138 00:07:59,471 --> 00:08:04,911 Speaker 17: could muster about the elements of power and their nature 139 00:08:05,191 --> 00:08:06,191 Speaker 17: and their limits. 140 00:08:06,951 --> 00:08:09,751 Speaker 1: This is Bud McFarlane speaking to me in December of 141 00:08:09,791 --> 00:08:11,831 Speaker 1: twe nineteen in Washington, DC. 142 00:08:12,471 --> 00:08:14,631 Speaker 13: All that is not unique to me. 143 00:08:14,791 --> 00:08:19,071 Speaker 17: I mean, hundreds thousands of people go through as good 144 00:08:19,151 --> 00:08:22,951 Speaker 17: or better schools than I did and get this foundation 145 00:08:23,191 --> 00:08:29,871 Speaker 17: knowledge and self confidence that, yes, you can contribute constructively 146 00:08:30,031 --> 00:08:33,590 Speaker 17: because you know the rules and you occasionally have a 147 00:08:33,670 --> 00:08:37,310 Speaker 17: lucid interval and even imagination that could make the world 148 00:08:37,310 --> 00:08:37,991 Speaker 17: a better place. 149 00:08:38,871 --> 00:08:41,830 Speaker 1: Bud McFarland died in twenty twenty two at the age 150 00:08:41,871 --> 00:08:45,351 Speaker 1: of eighty four. Perhaps more than anyone else in the 151 00:08:45,391 --> 00:08:49,471 Speaker 1: Reagan White House, McFarlane felt personally responsible for the events 152 00:08:49,511 --> 00:08:52,790 Speaker 1: that led to Iran Contra. When I first approached him 153 00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:55,471 Speaker 1: about an interview. He made it clear that rehashing the 154 00:08:55,511 --> 00:08:57,431 Speaker 1: story of the scandal would be painful. 155 00:08:58,391 --> 00:09:04,551 Speaker 17: Remorse doesn't quite capture it. I I'd failed my country. 156 00:09:07,991 --> 00:09:11,470 Speaker 1: McFarlane's career in government began during that Nickson administration, when 157 00:09:11,471 --> 00:09:12,831 Speaker 1: he worked for Henry Kissinger. 158 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:16,511 Speaker 4: Henry Kissinger has been on the road conferring, negotiating, and 159 00:09:16,590 --> 00:09:19,710 Speaker 4: meeting with heads of state in eight countries in nine days. 160 00:09:19,991 --> 00:09:23,790 Speaker 1: McFarlane saw Kissinger as a professional role model, an ambitious 161 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:27,790 Speaker 1: geopolitical thinker who could see the vulnerabilities of America's adversaries 162 00:09:27,950 --> 00:09:29,271 Speaker 1: and knew how to exploit them. 163 00:09:29,471 --> 00:09:32,550 Speaker 4: Kissinger carried out his Middle East peace mission today in 164 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:33,871 Speaker 4: three Arab countries. 165 00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:36,550 Speaker 2: He's the most gifted man to work in American foreign 166 00:09:36,590 --> 00:09:39,391 Speaker 2: policy in any generation since World War Two. 167 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:46,591 Speaker 17: Henry was someone who I had admired, notwithstanding his cynicism 168 00:09:46,631 --> 00:09:53,310 Speaker 17: and occasionally ruthless methods, and being there even as a 169 00:09:53,310 --> 00:09:55,231 Speaker 17: note taker was a. 170 00:09:56,910 --> 00:09:58,111 Speaker 13: Gift. 171 00:09:58,790 --> 00:10:02,111 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty three, just days before the invasion of Grenada, 172 00:10:02,710 --> 00:10:06,831 Speaker 1: Reagan made McFarlane his National Security Advisor, the same job 173 00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:08,831 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger had held a decade earlier. 174 00:10:09,151 --> 00:10:15,711 Speaker 12: Robert McFarlane, we'll be confirmed as National Security Advisor, but 175 00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:18,071 Speaker 12: I want to thank you for accepting this new challenge. 176 00:10:18,231 --> 00:10:19,870 Speaker 12: All of us look forward to working with you in 177 00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:21,511 Speaker 12: the coming months. 178 00:10:23,151 --> 00:10:25,790 Speaker 1: From the beginning of his tenure as National Security Advisor, 179 00:10:26,271 --> 00:10:30,111 Speaker 1: McFarlan had a special interest in Iran. He believed that 180 00:10:30,151 --> 00:10:32,871 Speaker 1: even though Iran was led by the intensely anti American 181 00:10:32,950 --> 00:10:36,790 Speaker 1: Iatola Komani, the US might have a chance to intervene 182 00:10:36,830 --> 00:10:37,991 Speaker 1: in the country's politics. 183 00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:42,271 Speaker 9: Conscious of iran strategic and economic importance, the administration wants 184 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:45,591 Speaker 9: to keep the door open to possible reconciliation. But while 185 00:10:45,631 --> 00:10:48,071 Speaker 9: Comte lives, that seems a distant hope. 186 00:10:48,790 --> 00:10:53,511 Speaker 17: I really didn't imagine that we had a plausible prospect 187 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:58,471 Speaker 17: of being able to engage with this government. I did think, however, 188 00:10:58,670 --> 00:11:05,910 Speaker 17: that there were reasons why the circumstances facing Iran might 189 00:11:05,991 --> 00:11:10,711 Speaker 17: give us an opportunity to influence the regime change. 190 00:11:12,351 --> 00:11:15,830 Speaker 1: McFarlane had this theory that there might be people inside 191 00:11:15,871 --> 00:11:18,591 Speaker 1: the Iranian military who would be amenable to the idea 192 00:11:18,670 --> 00:11:23,151 Speaker 1: of a coup against Komani. Theoretically, the Americans could help 193 00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:26,591 Speaker 1: these dissident elements and in the process turn Iran from 194 00:11:26,631 --> 00:11:29,550 Speaker 1: an enemy into an ally. The way they had been 195 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:30,671 Speaker 1: before the revolution. 196 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:34,471 Speaker 17: I mean, you'd have to have the very senior leadership 197 00:11:34,471 --> 00:11:39,350 Speaker 17: of the military who had become demoralized. And that's theory, 198 00:11:39,710 --> 00:11:43,990 Speaker 17: but it was a very plausible possibility that the military 199 00:11:44,030 --> 00:11:47,551 Speaker 17: would be the instrument of changing the regime in a 200 00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:49,670 Speaker 17: relatively bloodless coup. 201 00:11:51,710 --> 00:11:54,590 Speaker 1: MacFarlane had a specific reason for thinking that Iran was 202 00:11:54,670 --> 00:11:57,790 Speaker 1: vulnerable to an internal coup. As he saw it, the 203 00:11:57,830 --> 00:12:01,471 Speaker 1: country was stuck between two foreign powers, Iraq to the 204 00:12:01,471 --> 00:12:05,310 Speaker 1: west and the Soviet Union to the northeast. In Iraq, 205 00:12:05,511 --> 00:12:08,711 Speaker 1: the problem was Saddam Hussein, who had invaded Iran in 206 00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:12,511 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty right after the Iranian Revolution. The war that 207 00:12:12,590 --> 00:12:16,631 Speaker 1: followed was unimaginably violent. Hundreds of thousands of people were 208 00:12:16,631 --> 00:12:17,231 Speaker 1: being killed. 209 00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:20,831 Speaker 14: A war that started months ago with fretful skirm issues, 210 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:23,751 Speaker 14: a war that no one now seems able to stop. 211 00:12:26,950 --> 00:12:30,471 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Soviet Union was just sort of looming over Iran. 212 00:12:30,351 --> 00:12:31,471 Speaker 13: On its northern border. 213 00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:34,511 Speaker 9: Iran worries about twenty four Soviet divisions. 214 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:37,271 Speaker 1: The two countries shared a border, and MacFarland had no 215 00:12:37,310 --> 00:12:40,831 Speaker 1: doubt that the Soviets, who had recently invaded Afghanistan, wanted 216 00:12:40,871 --> 00:12:44,151 Speaker 1: to gain influence in the Middle East. He thought maybe 217 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:46,831 Speaker 1: there were people within the Iranian leadership who were concerned 218 00:12:46,871 --> 00:12:47,910 Speaker 1: about the same thing. 219 00:12:48,511 --> 00:12:52,991 Speaker 17: Out of self interest. That ought to have nurtured a 220 00:12:53,111 --> 00:12:54,271 Speaker 17: dissonant element. 221 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:01,951 Speaker 1: There was just one problem. McFarlane didn't actually know for 222 00:13:02,030 --> 00:13:06,511 Speaker 1: sure that these dissidents existed. He was thinking strategically, just 223 00:13:06,550 --> 00:13:10,790 Speaker 1: like Kissinger had taught him, and he was hoping to 224 00:13:10,830 --> 00:13:14,190 Speaker 1: be fair. There wasn't much else he could do. Concrete 225 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:16,951 Speaker 1: intelligence about what was happening in the Iranian government was 226 00:13:17,151 --> 00:13:20,511 Speaker 1: very hard to come by. The relationship between Iran and 227 00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:22,311 Speaker 1: the US was openly hostile. 228 00:13:22,991 --> 00:13:27,190 Speaker 8: Leading officials of the Reagan administration repeatedly have accused Iran 229 00:13:27,351 --> 00:13:30,030 Speaker 8: of sponsoring terrorist attacks against the United States. 230 00:13:30,391 --> 00:13:34,151 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, the Reagan administration officially designated the 231 00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:37,831 Speaker 1: Komani regime a state sponsor of terrorism. They enforced an 232 00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:40,591 Speaker 1: arms embargo that prevented the US government from selling weapons 233 00:13:40,631 --> 00:13:43,830 Speaker 1: to Iran, and launched a diplomatic campaign to pressure other 234 00:13:43,871 --> 00:13:44,830 Speaker 1: countries to do the same. 235 00:13:45,550 --> 00:13:48,870 Speaker 9: The burning of the American flag, the shouts of Death 236 00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:50,030 Speaker 9: to America. 237 00:13:50,391 --> 00:13:55,591 Speaker 1: Friday prayers, Iranian imams led chance of death to America. 238 00:13:56,271 --> 00:13:58,710 Speaker 1: So it was Chile between the Reagan White House and 239 00:13:58,751 --> 00:14:03,151 Speaker 1: the Komani regime. But then in July of nineteen eighty five, 240 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:06,830 Speaker 1: Bud McFarlane received a visit from a trusted associate bearing 241 00:14:06,871 --> 00:14:10,430 Speaker 1: good news. It turned out that the people mc farland 242 00:14:10,430 --> 00:14:14,070 Speaker 1: had been imagining the dissidents within the Iranian regime were 243 00:14:14,151 --> 00:14:23,991 Speaker 1: in fact real and they wanted to talk. Around the 244 00:14:24,031 --> 00:14:27,230 Speaker 1: same time, a related crisis was unfolding in the Middle East. 245 00:14:27,791 --> 00:14:30,671 Speaker 5: The American University of Beirut today is under heavier guard 246 00:14:30,671 --> 00:14:34,071 Speaker 5: than usual. The US Embassy there, citing intelligence reports, has 247 00:14:34,151 --> 00:14:38,191 Speaker 5: warned that pro Iranian extremists are planning mass kidnappings of 248 00:14:38,231 --> 00:14:39,471 Speaker 5: Americans on the campus. 249 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:41,990 Speaker 1: John Weir was in his twenties when his father was 250 00:14:42,031 --> 00:14:43,351 Speaker 1: taken hostage in Lebanon. 251 00:14:43,871 --> 00:14:47,471 Speaker 16: I remember talking to my sisters and my sisters being upset, 252 00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:49,071 Speaker 16: my mom being very upset. 253 00:14:49,471 --> 00:14:51,951 Speaker 1: It was six months into Bud McFarland's tenure as National 254 00:14:51,991 --> 00:14:55,591 Speaker 1: Security Advisor, and about three years since the American hostages 255 00:14:55,631 --> 00:15:00,311 Speaker 1: taken in Tehran were returned home. John Weir's father, the 256 00:15:00,351 --> 00:15:03,471 Speaker 1: Reverend Benjamin Weir, was a Presbyterian minister who had been 257 00:15:03,471 --> 00:15:07,750 Speaker 1: assigned to Beirut, the capital city of Lebanon. Weir was 258 00:15:07,830 --> 00:15:10,911 Speaker 1: kidnapped as he and his wife Carol were leaving them apartment. 259 00:15:11,391 --> 00:15:14,031 Speaker 16: And not too far from the anxious department building, a 260 00:15:14,351 --> 00:15:17,230 Speaker 16: car pulled up, some guys got out and grabbed my dad. 261 00:15:17,911 --> 00:15:21,191 Speaker 16: My mom tried to fight them off, She's not much 262 00:15:21,191 --> 00:15:26,431 Speaker 16: of a fighter, and they basically just muzzled him into 263 00:15:26,431 --> 00:15:27,870 Speaker 16: the car and drove off. 264 00:15:28,751 --> 00:15:31,871 Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, Lebanon was embroiled in a brutal 265 00:15:31,951 --> 00:15:36,350 Speaker 1: sectarian civil war, and Islamic militia groups began kidnapping European 266 00:15:36,431 --> 00:15:40,151 Speaker 1: and American citizens. The group that captured Benjamin Weir was 267 00:15:40,191 --> 00:15:43,431 Speaker 1: associated with Hesbela, which enjoyed the support of the Komani 268 00:15:43,511 --> 00:15:47,871 Speaker 1: regime in Iran. By nineteen eighty five, Weir was one 269 00:15:47,871 --> 00:15:50,391 Speaker 1: of seven Americans being held hostage in Lebanon. 270 00:15:50,991 --> 00:15:54,551 Speaker 14: Seven Americans kidnapped in Beirut over the past fifteen months, 271 00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:56,831 Speaker 14: seven Americans who have disappeared. 272 00:15:56,911 --> 00:15:59,711 Speaker 1: In addition to Weir, the group of hostages included a 273 00:15:59,710 --> 00:16:03,591 Speaker 1: Catholic priest, a correspondent for the Associated Press, and three 274 00:16:03,631 --> 00:16:08,031 Speaker 1: employees of the American University in Beirut. In the federal government, 275 00:16:08,351 --> 00:16:11,791 Speaker 1: administration officials were most co earned, with one hostage in particular, 276 00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:14,951 Speaker 1: a CIA operative named William Buckley. 277 00:16:15,511 --> 00:16:18,470 Speaker 5: William Buckley, a political officer at the US Embassy in Beirut, 278 00:16:18,551 --> 00:16:19,230 Speaker 5: was kidnapped. 279 00:16:19,271 --> 00:16:23,191 Speaker 4: He was kidnapped on March the sixteenth, nineteen eighty four. 280 00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:28,990 Speaker 1: Buckley had been with the CIA for decades, working in Zayir, Cambodia, Egypt, 281 00:16:28,991 --> 00:16:32,391 Speaker 1: and Pakistan. When he was kidnapped, Buckley was the head 282 00:16:32,431 --> 00:16:34,911 Speaker 1: of the CIA's be Route Division, though that was not 283 00:16:35,071 --> 00:16:38,871 Speaker 1: public information at the time. News outlets identified him only 284 00:16:38,871 --> 00:16:42,511 Speaker 1: as a political officer at the US Embassy. In January 285 00:16:42,551 --> 00:16:45,750 Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty five, Buckley's captors released a videotape of 286 00:16:45,830 --> 00:16:47,871 Speaker 1: him to prove that he was still alive. 287 00:16:49,031 --> 00:16:54,031 Speaker 15: January nineteen, page five Hi as well. 288 00:16:55,511 --> 00:16:58,791 Speaker 1: In the video, Buckley appeared weak and his voice sounded thin. 289 00:16:59,791 --> 00:17:02,791 Speaker 1: Intelligence officials feared that the kidnappers were torturing him in 290 00:17:02,871 --> 00:17:07,151 Speaker 1: order to get CIA's secrets. As Buckley's captivity stretched into 291 00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:09,911 Speaker 1: its second year, it weighed on the minds of administration 292 00:17:10,031 --> 00:17:15,511 Speaker 1: officials like McFarlane, CIA Director William Casey and President Reagan himself, 293 00:17:16,751 --> 00:17:19,710 Speaker 1: But the administration seemed to be avoiding drawing attention to 294 00:17:19,711 --> 00:17:21,791 Speaker 1: the hostage situation as much as possible. 295 00:17:21,951 --> 00:17:25,110 Speaker 15: The Reagan administration's response to the series of kidnappings has 296 00:17:25,150 --> 00:17:28,271 Speaker 15: been one of almost total silence. What a complete contrast 297 00:17:28,311 --> 00:17:31,551 Speaker 15: to the actions of the Carter administration when Iranian extremists 298 00:17:31,551 --> 00:17:34,750 Speaker 15: seized the American embassy in Tehran more than five years ago. 299 00:17:35,031 --> 00:17:36,390 Speaker 1: Here again is John Weir. 300 00:17:37,071 --> 00:17:42,111 Speaker 16: The Reagan White House had made a lot of political 301 00:17:42,191 --> 00:17:45,671 Speaker 16: hay out of Jimmy Carter's issues with the hostages in Iran, 302 00:17:46,590 --> 00:17:50,191 Speaker 16: and it was pretty clear to us that they were 303 00:17:50,431 --> 00:17:54,470 Speaker 16: kind of suppressing as much as they could discussion of 304 00:17:54,551 --> 00:17:58,391 Speaker 16: hostages or use of the word hostages, and they did 305 00:17:58,471 --> 00:18:01,391 Speaker 16: not want to have a hostage problem like Jimmy Carter had. 306 00:18:01,870 --> 00:18:05,471 Speaker 1: The administration had also publicly committed itself to an ironclad 307 00:18:05,511 --> 00:18:09,231 Speaker 1: principle America does not negotiate with terrorists. 308 00:18:09,471 --> 00:18:13,991 Speaker 12: Terrorists and those who support them must and will be 309 00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:15,311 Speaker 12: held to account. 310 00:18:15,630 --> 00:18:18,471 Speaker 10: The principle was that, you know, we should never deal 311 00:18:18,551 --> 00:18:19,511 Speaker 10: with terrorists. 312 00:18:19,911 --> 00:18:21,831 Speaker 1: Here's Jane Mayer again, that you. 313 00:18:21,951 --> 00:18:25,470 Speaker 10: Do not honor them by dealing with them, and they 314 00:18:25,471 --> 00:18:26,991 Speaker 10: took a very hard line on it. 315 00:18:27,150 --> 00:18:30,590 Speaker 1: The Reagan administration communicated a consistent message to the Weir family, 316 00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:35,391 Speaker 1: just laylo, the government is doing everything it can. They 317 00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:37,951 Speaker 1: even had a phrase for it, quiet diplomacy. 318 00:18:38,271 --> 00:18:42,510 Speaker 16: Quiet diplomacy was their explanation of why we had no 319 00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:45,670 Speaker 16: idea what they were doing. We would say, so, what 320 00:18:45,711 --> 00:18:49,191 Speaker 16: are you doing, Oh, well, we're using quiet diplomacy. 321 00:18:50,231 --> 00:18:54,590 Speaker 1: Eventually, Benjamin Weir's wife, Carol took matters into her own hands. 322 00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:57,510 Speaker 1: She had lived in Lebanon for more than thirty years 323 00:18:57,590 --> 00:19:00,671 Speaker 1: and she knew a lot of people. She began traveling 324 00:19:00,711 --> 00:19:04,071 Speaker 1: around the region talking to religious leaders, following leads of 325 00:19:04,071 --> 00:19:06,430 Speaker 1: her own, and comparing notes with her contacts at the 326 00:19:06,551 --> 00:19:07,830 Speaker 1: US embassy. 327 00:19:07,870 --> 00:19:10,751 Speaker 16: She would ask them, you know, who have you seen? 328 00:19:11,551 --> 00:19:13,950 Speaker 16: And there were a couple of occasions when they mentioned 329 00:19:13,951 --> 00:19:18,150 Speaker 16: some people and she said, well, I've already seen that person. So, 330 00:19:18,751 --> 00:19:20,991 Speaker 16: you know, she started trying to figure out who had them, 331 00:19:21,071 --> 00:19:23,870 Speaker 16: what was going on, what did they want. But after 332 00:19:23,911 --> 00:19:28,390 Speaker 16: we'd heard quiet diplomacy long enough, we decided that the 333 00:19:28,511 --> 00:19:33,511 Speaker 16: quiet diplomacy was just a way of trying to pacify us, 334 00:19:33,991 --> 00:19:35,871 Speaker 16: and that we needed to ratchet things up. 335 00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:39,590 Speaker 1: Finally, Carol Weir decided that she needed to relocate to 336 00:19:39,630 --> 00:19:42,590 Speaker 1: the United States and take her message to Washington. 337 00:19:44,110 --> 00:19:46,871 Speaker 4: The wife of the Reverend Benjamin Weir was in Washington 338 00:19:46,911 --> 00:19:48,951 Speaker 4: today seeking more help for her husband. 339 00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:52,991 Speaker 18: It's four hundred and seventeen days now for me since 340 00:19:53,071 --> 00:19:56,791 Speaker 18: my husband was kidnapped. As that's a long time, and 341 00:19:56,991 --> 00:19:59,150 Speaker 18: I believe they have been forgotten. 342 00:20:00,870 --> 00:20:03,590 Speaker 1: The Weirs used the resources of the Presbyterian Church to 343 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:06,950 Speaker 1: launch a public pressure campaign. They spoke at churches and 344 00:20:06,991 --> 00:20:09,791 Speaker 1: gave press conferences. They organized an effort to get a 345 00:20:09,791 --> 00:20:14,350 Speaker 1: milli letters written to the administration. In one speech, Carol 346 00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:17,511 Speaker 1: Weir invoked the Iranian hostage crisis that had consumed the 347 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:20,950 Speaker 1: nation's attention just a few years earlier. She asked if 348 00:20:20,951 --> 00:20:22,871 Speaker 1: she would have to wait four hundred and forty four 349 00:20:22,951 --> 00:20:30,590 Speaker 1: days to see her husband. During his first term, Reagan's 350 00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:33,191 Speaker 1: closest aids had tried to prevent the president from directly 351 00:20:33,231 --> 00:20:34,711 Speaker 1: engaging with the hostage families. 352 00:20:35,311 --> 00:20:37,511 Speaker 10: The old aides who knew him well, tried to keep 353 00:20:37,911 --> 00:20:41,110 Speaker 10: people with hard luck stories away from him. That is 354 00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:43,430 Speaker 10: the truth about Reagan was that whenever there was somebody 355 00:20:43,471 --> 00:20:47,271 Speaker 10: who was an individual with a problem that was near him, 356 00:20:47,711 --> 00:20:51,071 Speaker 10: he had a tendency to be empathetic and he could 357 00:20:51,071 --> 00:20:52,031 Speaker 10: be manipulated. 358 00:20:52,751 --> 00:20:54,950 Speaker 1: Reagan's minders had feared that if he met with the 359 00:20:54,951 --> 00:20:57,630 Speaker 1: hostage families, he would begin pushing to get their loved 360 00:20:57,630 --> 00:21:00,551 Speaker 1: ones released at any cost, and he might be tempted 361 00:21:00,551 --> 00:21:04,950 Speaker 1: to violate his policy of never negotiating with terrorists. But 362 00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:07,911 Speaker 1: by the summer of nineteen eighty five, many of Reagan's 363 00:21:07,951 --> 00:21:11,471 Speaker 1: first term aids were no longer around. Without them there 364 00:21:11,511 --> 00:21:14,150 Speaker 1: to hold him back, the President began to fixate on 365 00:21:14,231 --> 00:21:17,671 Speaker 1: the hostages, asking about them in meetings nearly every day 366 00:21:18,031 --> 00:21:20,150 Speaker 1: and agonizing over their continued captivity. 367 00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:25,311 Speaker 10: He basically got drawn in and hooked and became emotionally 368 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:29,671 Speaker 10: involved in the situation, and he made clear that he 369 00:21:29,791 --> 00:21:33,551 Speaker 10: cared and he really wanted these hostages out and something 370 00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:35,831 Speaker 10: done about it. And his motto, which he often said 371 00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:39,431 Speaker 10: to his aides, was don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. 372 00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:43,911 Speaker 1: In July of nineteen eighty five, National security advisor Bud 373 00:21:43,991 --> 00:21:48,551 Speaker 1: McFarlane approached the President with a possible solution. In his diary, 374 00:21:48,671 --> 00:21:52,430 Speaker 1: Reagan wrote, some strange soundings are coming from the Iranians. 375 00:21:53,191 --> 00:21:56,351 Speaker 1: Bud em will be here tomorrow to talk about it. 376 00:21:56,350 --> 00:21:58,710 Speaker 1: It could be a breakthrough on getting our seven kidnap 377 00:21:58,791 --> 00:22:02,990 Speaker 1: victims back. McFarland's meeting with Reagan was prompted by a 378 00:22:02,991 --> 00:22:05,910 Speaker 1: conversation he had had two weeks earlier with a senior 379 00:22:05,991 --> 00:22:10,950 Speaker 1: Israeli diplomat. The diplomat's name was David kim k He 380 00:22:10,991 --> 00:22:15,350 Speaker 1: had previously served as deputy director of Masad, Israel's intelligence agency, 381 00:22:15,791 --> 00:22:20,871 Speaker 1: and MacFarland trusted his judgment. According to MacFarlane, kim Key 382 00:22:20,951 --> 00:22:23,350 Speaker 1: told him that Israel had been in touch with Iranians 383 00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:26,470 Speaker 1: who were disaffected by the turmoil in their country and 384 00:22:26,511 --> 00:22:29,311 Speaker 1: who were both willing and able to change the government. 385 00:22:30,271 --> 00:22:33,911 Speaker 17: It was simply stated that there are elements in the 386 00:22:34,191 --> 00:22:38,751 Speaker 17: Iranian army that are prepared to open a dialogue with 387 00:22:38,951 --> 00:22:47,110 Speaker 17: us that might lead to oh regime change, but that 388 00:22:47,191 --> 00:22:50,111 Speaker 17: it would take probably years of nurture to do it. 389 00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:54,271 Speaker 17: I was simply heartened, however, by the fact that he 390 00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:58,870 Speaker 17: thought it might be nurtured and developed over time. 391 00:22:59,791 --> 00:23:03,911 Speaker 1: It was exactly what MacFarlane had hoped for, Iranian moderates 392 00:23:03,911 --> 00:23:07,350 Speaker 1: and positions of power who secretly opposed the revolutionary government 393 00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:10,991 Speaker 1: that had taken over their country. There was a catch. 394 00:23:11,671 --> 00:23:16,311 Speaker 1: The coup was not going to nurture itself before there 395 00:23:16,311 --> 00:23:20,071 Speaker 1: could be any dialogue between the US and these Iranian moderates. 396 00:23:20,671 --> 00:23:23,071 Speaker 1: The Americans would have to do Their new friends a 397 00:23:23,071 --> 00:23:27,831 Speaker 1: good turn, they would have to sell them some weapons. Specifically, 398 00:23:27,951 --> 00:23:31,191 Speaker 1: the Iranians wanted anti tank missiles for use in their 399 00:23:31,231 --> 00:23:35,511 Speaker 1: war against Iraq. It was a big request, but the 400 00:23:35,511 --> 00:23:39,670 Speaker 1: Iranians were offering something valuable in return. They could use 401 00:23:39,711 --> 00:23:42,630 Speaker 1: their influence over HESBLA to bring about the release of 402 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:46,670 Speaker 1: William Buckley, Benjamin Weir, and all the other American hostages 403 00:23:46,711 --> 00:23:50,590 Speaker 1: being held in Lebanon. At least that's what Bud McFarlane 404 00:23:50,711 --> 00:23:53,391 Speaker 1: was hearing from David Kimke, the Israeli diplomat. 405 00:23:54,031 --> 00:24:00,511 Speaker 17: Kim k presented it as their being able to achieve 406 00:24:00,671 --> 00:24:06,551 Speaker 17: the release of the hostages, and that wasn't just his notion, 407 00:24:06,951 --> 00:24:10,150 Speaker 17: but that it had been vetted by Iranians that he 408 00:24:10,231 --> 00:24:12,071 Speaker 17: believed were worthy people. 409 00:24:13,551 --> 00:24:16,910 Speaker 1: How did David Kimki know they were worthy people? The 410 00:24:16,991 --> 00:24:19,591 Speaker 1: answer lay with the man who was helping Israel make 411 00:24:19,630 --> 00:24:23,591 Speaker 1: contact with the Iranian moderates. His name was Menu chair 412 00:24:23,791 --> 00:24:30,870 Speaker 1: Goorbanifar Orbanifar was an Iranian businessman living in Europe. He 413 00:24:30,991 --> 00:24:34,231 Speaker 1: was a kind of international fixer, a guy who helped 414 00:24:34,231 --> 00:24:37,191 Speaker 1: broker deals between parties who would otherwise have no reason 415 00:24:37,231 --> 00:24:41,031 Speaker 1: to trust each other. And according to David kimk Gorbanifar 416 00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:44,311 Speaker 1: could connect the Americans to the moderates inside Iran who 417 00:24:44,311 --> 00:24:47,350 Speaker 1: were open, perhaps even eager, for a better relationship with 418 00:24:47,390 --> 00:24:51,991 Speaker 1: the United States. If this all sounds convoluted, that's because 419 00:24:51,991 --> 00:24:57,671 Speaker 1: it was McFarlane, kimky goor Bonifar, these nameless moderates in Iran. 420 00:24:58,311 --> 00:25:00,590 Speaker 1: It's a bizarre daisy chain, and the mechanics of it 421 00:25:00,630 --> 00:25:03,670 Speaker 1: aren't that important. The point is a guy knew a 422 00:25:03,711 --> 00:25:06,071 Speaker 1: guy who knew a guy who claimed to know some 423 00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:09,110 Speaker 1: high level Iranians who didn't see eye to eye with 424 00:25:09,191 --> 00:25:14,150 Speaker 1: the anti American and Comani regime. Incredibly, that was enough 425 00:25:14,231 --> 00:25:20,110 Speaker 1: to get the ball rolling. Over the course of several weeks. 426 00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:23,631 Speaker 1: In July, a specific proposal took shape in which one 427 00:25:23,711 --> 00:25:27,311 Speaker 1: hundred American missiles would be traded for all seven American hostages. 428 00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:31,071 Speaker 1: The trade would serve as a demonstration of good faith. 429 00:25:31,951 --> 00:25:35,150 Speaker 1: With mutual trust established, the two sides might then be 430 00:25:35,191 --> 00:25:38,350 Speaker 1: able to start talking about the bigger picture, the eventual 431 00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:43,711 Speaker 1: ouster of the Iyatola. As McFarland well knew, the deal 432 00:25:43,751 --> 00:25:48,110 Speaker 1: would violate American policy in at least two ways. First, 433 00:25:48,231 --> 00:25:53,271 Speaker 1: it would break the Reagan administration's rule against negotiating with terrorists. Second, 434 00:25:53,511 --> 00:25:56,791 Speaker 1: it would undermine the international effort to stop weapons sales 435 00:25:56,791 --> 00:26:01,311 Speaker 1: to Iran that the US it self had introduced principles Aside, 436 00:26:01,551 --> 00:26:04,350 Speaker 1: the arms for hostages deal would depend entirely on the 437 00:26:04,350 --> 00:26:09,031 Speaker 1: credibility of the mysterious Iranian fixer, Manucher Gorbanifar, a man 438 00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:11,670 Speaker 1: McFarlane didn't know at all. 439 00:26:11,711 --> 00:26:12,750 Speaker 13: I thought it was fraud. 440 00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:18,031 Speaker 17: After all, unless you have absolute conviction in the integrity 441 00:26:18,231 --> 00:26:22,470 Speaker 17: of the people you're dealing with, a barter for hostages 442 00:26:23,751 --> 00:26:28,990 Speaker 17: is just an open door to encouraging more hostages being taken. 443 00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:34,910 Speaker 1: Nonetheless, McFarland decided the opportunity was worth bringing to President Reagan. 444 00:26:35,951 --> 00:26:38,430 Speaker 1: The risk was obvious, but so was the potential for 445 00:26:38,471 --> 00:26:42,910 Speaker 1: a historic world changing moment. Remember McFarland's role model was 446 00:26:42,951 --> 00:26:46,390 Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger, whose crowning achievement under Nixon was making a 447 00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:50,471 Speaker 1: surprise opening to communist China. Here again is Jane Mayer. 448 00:26:50,911 --> 00:26:54,950 Speaker 10: He just so wanted to be a major global player. 449 00:26:55,511 --> 00:26:58,190 Speaker 10: He wanted to be like Henry Kissinger. He wanted to 450 00:26:58,231 --> 00:27:02,110 Speaker 10: be a huge state craft warrior who was going to 451 00:27:02,191 --> 00:27:05,831 Speaker 10: change the world. And this looked like something where he could, 452 00:27:05,991 --> 00:27:08,390 Speaker 10: you know, put his mark on the world and have 453 00:27:08,431 --> 00:27:09,350 Speaker 10: a legacy here. 454 00:27:17,071 --> 00:27:20,630 Speaker 1: Two weeks after McFarland's meeting with David Kimkey, Ronald Reagan 455 00:27:20,711 --> 00:27:23,150 Speaker 1: was in the hospital recovering from surgery that removed a 456 00:27:23,191 --> 00:27:27,511 Speaker 1: cancerous growth from his intestine. McFarland came to Reagan's bedside 457 00:27:27,551 --> 00:27:31,031 Speaker 1: to brief him on the potential opening to Iran. McFarland 458 00:27:31,031 --> 00:27:33,511 Speaker 1: says he mapped out the benefits, but was very clear 459 00:27:33,551 --> 00:27:34,390 Speaker 1: on the downsides. 460 00:27:34,911 --> 00:27:38,391 Speaker 17: They said, this is a very high risk venture for you. 461 00:27:39,551 --> 00:27:43,711 Speaker 17: I briefed him on the prospect that this could go wrong. 462 00:27:44,711 --> 00:27:47,791 Speaker 1: McFarland told me that Reagan was enthusiastic about the idea 463 00:27:47,870 --> 00:27:50,031 Speaker 1: as soon as he understood that it might bring home 464 00:27:50,071 --> 00:27:50,751 Speaker 1: the hostages. 465 00:27:51,311 --> 00:27:57,391 Speaker 17: He focused upon what Kimky had said that his intermediary, 466 00:27:57,471 --> 00:28:03,791 Speaker 17: Go Bonifar, believes that the army officers involved could affect 467 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:07,751 Speaker 17: the release of the hostages. Well, Reagan said, well, but 468 00:28:07,911 --> 00:28:11,590 Speaker 17: we can't let an opportunity of that. Lord, it's risky 469 00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:17,430 Speaker 17: go buy. Let's test it first and see to what 470 00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:19,511 Speaker 17: extent there is good faith here or not. 471 00:28:20,511 --> 00:28:23,430 Speaker 1: McFarland worked out a plan with Kimki and other Israeli 472 00:28:23,511 --> 00:28:27,150 Speaker 1: officials in order to avoid the appearance of a direct 473 00:28:27,191 --> 00:28:30,191 Speaker 1: weapons sale from the United States to Iran, the White 474 00:28:30,191 --> 00:28:34,350 Speaker 1: House would use Israel as a go between. Essentially, Israel 475 00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:36,430 Speaker 1: would sell some of their American made missiles to the 476 00:28:36,471 --> 00:28:40,271 Speaker 1: Iranian moderates, and the US would then replenish Israel's stocks. 477 00:28:41,751 --> 00:28:45,271 Speaker 1: Several top officials in the administration, notably the Secretary of 478 00:28:45,271 --> 00:28:48,031 Speaker 1: State and the Secretary of Defense, thought the arms for 479 00:28:48,071 --> 00:28:51,831 Speaker 1: hostages trade was a terrible idea. But as Jane Mayer 480 00:28:51,831 --> 00:28:56,311 Speaker 1: writes in Landslide, Reagan often blocked out uncomfortable information and 481 00:28:56,351 --> 00:28:59,591 Speaker 1: focused only on the positive, sometimes to the point of 482 00:28:59,631 --> 00:29:04,391 Speaker 1: self delusion. For example, after getting his cancer removed, Reagan 483 00:29:04,391 --> 00:29:06,710 Speaker 1: took the position that he had never had cancer in 484 00:29:06,751 --> 00:29:07,431 Speaker 1: the first place. 485 00:29:08,391 --> 00:29:11,710 Speaker 10: As he saw it, whatever cancer had been in his 486 00:29:11,791 --> 00:29:15,111 Speaker 10: body had been taken out, and it was never he 487 00:29:15,191 --> 00:29:17,151 Speaker 10: who had had it. It was just the tumor that 488 00:29:17,231 --> 00:29:19,671 Speaker 10: had it, so he could say that, actually, he never 489 00:29:19,751 --> 00:29:20,471 Speaker 10: had cancer. 490 00:29:21,551 --> 00:29:24,071 Speaker 1: Reagan was so focused on the hostages that he waved 491 00:29:24,111 --> 00:29:26,911 Speaker 1: away the arguments as cabinet officers tried to make against 492 00:29:26,951 --> 00:29:27,711 Speaker 1: the Iran plan. 493 00:29:28,231 --> 00:29:31,230 Speaker 17: He just didn't want to deal with it. He was 494 00:29:31,231 --> 00:29:37,071 Speaker 17: an optimist. Oh, he was a near sighted humanitarian. 495 00:29:37,471 --> 00:29:38,391 Speaker 13: If you will, but. 496 00:29:39,951 --> 00:29:43,631 Speaker 17: Without thinking seriously about the downside risks here. 497 00:29:44,631 --> 00:29:48,190 Speaker 1: According to McFarlane, Reagan called him in early August to 498 00:29:48,231 --> 00:29:51,551 Speaker 1: personally authorize the shipment of anti tank missiles to Iran. 499 00:29:53,431 --> 00:29:57,751 Speaker 17: I reminded him again that look, this may not work, 500 00:29:58,711 --> 00:30:03,190 Speaker 17: and he said, well, Bud, we don't know until we try. 501 00:30:06,031 --> 00:30:08,831 Speaker 1: By the summer of nineteen eighty five, the Weird family 502 00:30:08,871 --> 00:30:11,831 Speaker 1: felt like they were finallying traction with the Reagan administration. 503 00:30:12,551 --> 00:30:15,750 Speaker 1: According to John Weir, the breakthrough came after the family 504 00:30:15,831 --> 00:30:18,391 Speaker 1: scored a meeting with a prominent politician who had some 505 00:30:18,471 --> 00:30:21,791 Speaker 1: experience dealing with a hostage crisis, Jimmy Carter. 506 00:30:23,031 --> 00:30:27,631 Speaker 16: We flew to the airport in Atlanta, and Jimmy Carter 507 00:30:27,751 --> 00:30:31,511 Speaker 16: met us in a lounge at the airport. There was 508 00:30:31,551 --> 00:30:34,391 Speaker 16: no one else present other than his security detail. 509 00:30:34,951 --> 00:30:37,190 Speaker 1: The Weirs asked Carter for advice. 510 00:30:37,591 --> 00:30:40,751 Speaker 16: And said, you know, we've been very frustrated with the 511 00:30:40,791 --> 00:30:43,831 Speaker 16: current administration. We don't feel like we're making any progress. 512 00:30:44,711 --> 00:30:47,071 Speaker 16: You know, what do you think? What can you tell us? 513 00:30:47,751 --> 00:30:51,190 Speaker 1: Weir says that Carter initially hesitated, saying the family couldn't 514 00:30:51,191 --> 00:30:54,750 Speaker 1: possibly want his advice, but the Weirs kept pushing and 515 00:30:54,831 --> 00:30:56,631 Speaker 1: finally Carter gave them a name. 516 00:30:57,511 --> 00:31:00,271 Speaker 16: Jimmy Carter said, you know, Bud McFarlane works in the 517 00:31:00,311 --> 00:31:04,631 Speaker 16: current administration and the National Security Council, and I will 518 00:31:04,671 --> 00:31:07,351 Speaker 16: contact Bud and ask him if he will meet with you. 519 00:31:08,431 --> 00:31:11,391 Speaker 16: And Jimmy Carter stepped out of the room and he 520 00:31:11,471 --> 00:31:14,591 Speaker 16: came back a few minutes later and he said, Bud 521 00:31:14,671 --> 00:31:18,311 Speaker 16: McFarlane has agreed to meet with you. Basically, that was 522 00:31:18,351 --> 00:31:19,071 Speaker 16: the end of the meeting. 523 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:23,751 Speaker 1: John Weir says that his family felt a sense of 524 00:31:23,791 --> 00:31:29,471 Speaker 1: momentum once they were introduced to Bud McFarlane. McFarland seemed engaged, sympathetic, 525 00:31:29,551 --> 00:31:33,551 Speaker 1: and solutions oriented. He also gave the family another contact 526 00:31:33,551 --> 00:31:34,231 Speaker 1: in the White House. 527 00:31:34,951 --> 00:31:38,591 Speaker 16: This guy over here, Attenant, Colonel Oliver North, and he 528 00:31:38,671 --> 00:31:41,111 Speaker 16: will be your contact person. And if you have any 529 00:31:41,191 --> 00:31:45,151 Speaker 16: questions or any issues, Colonel North will make himself available 530 00:31:45,191 --> 00:31:48,351 Speaker 16: to you and you contact him and you talk to 531 00:31:48,431 --> 00:31:50,431 Speaker 16: him and he'll bring you up to speed on anything 532 00:31:50,431 --> 00:31:51,071 Speaker 16: that's going on. 533 00:31:51,551 --> 00:31:54,231 Speaker 1: McFarlane had taken Oliver North under his wing at the 534 00:31:54,271 --> 00:31:57,551 Speaker 1: National Security Council. They were both graduates of the Naval 535 00:31:57,591 --> 00:32:00,710 Speaker 1: Academy who had served in Vietnam, and though they had 536 00:32:00,831 --> 00:32:05,071 Speaker 1: very different personalities, they were fond of each other. Accounts 537 00:32:05,071 --> 00:32:08,151 Speaker 1: differ on when exactly North was brought into the Iran initiative, 538 00:32:08,951 --> 00:32:11,791 Speaker 1: but starting in the sun of nineteen eighty five, he 539 00:32:11,871 --> 00:32:14,911 Speaker 1: began interfacing with hostage families like the Weirs. 540 00:32:15,951 --> 00:32:20,231 Speaker 16: Colonel North would provide information from time to time about 541 00:32:20,231 --> 00:32:24,071 Speaker 16: trips he was taking. He wouldn't give any details, but 542 00:32:24,191 --> 00:32:27,671 Speaker 16: he would say, well, you know, I flew and inn 543 00:32:27,791 --> 00:32:30,111 Speaker 16: F fourteen to go to Europe for a quick meeting 544 00:32:30,151 --> 00:32:34,351 Speaker 16: that was really important. Would kind of talk about how 545 00:32:34,351 --> 00:32:39,190 Speaker 16: tough his life was, which is kind of funny. You know, 546 00:32:39,271 --> 00:32:41,471 Speaker 16: how hard he worked and all the hours he put in, 547 00:32:41,511 --> 00:32:43,351 Speaker 16: and how he had to take off on short notice 548 00:32:43,351 --> 00:32:45,710 Speaker 16: for things. And he would answer the phone when we 549 00:32:45,791 --> 00:32:49,391 Speaker 16: called and he would talk to us, which was a 550 00:32:49,431 --> 00:32:50,311 Speaker 16: big step forward. 551 00:32:52,071 --> 00:32:54,951 Speaker 1: McFarlane and North met with several hostage families throughout the 552 00:32:54,991 --> 00:32:57,511 Speaker 1: summer and offered similar assurances. 553 00:32:57,951 --> 00:33:00,391 Speaker 11: The families of the American hostages said that in an 554 00:33:00,391 --> 00:33:04,231 Speaker 11: hour with National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane they had learned 555 00:33:04,231 --> 00:33:06,991 Speaker 11: a lot more about what the Reagan administration has been 556 00:33:06,991 --> 00:33:08,111 Speaker 11: doing and they had. 557 00:33:07,991 --> 00:33:08,791 Speaker 13: Known in the past. 558 00:33:09,271 --> 00:33:12,431 Speaker 1: John Weir said that despite the overtures, his mother, Carol 559 00:33:12,551 --> 00:33:16,471 Speaker 1: was skeptical. After spending decades living in Lebanon, she had 560 00:33:16,551 --> 00:33:19,311 Speaker 1: deep reservations about US foreign policy in the Middle East. 561 00:33:20,271 --> 00:33:22,751 Speaker 1: Earlier that year, she had met with Secretary of State 562 00:33:22,791 --> 00:33:27,271 Speaker 1: George Schultz, but the Schultz's surprise and frustration, she used 563 00:33:27,271 --> 00:33:29,871 Speaker 1: the time to lay out the grievances of her husband's captors, 564 00:33:30,351 --> 00:33:32,591 Speaker 1: telling Schultz that US policy in the Middle East was 565 00:33:32,671 --> 00:33:36,631 Speaker 1: partially to blame for her husband's kidnapping. As Carol Weir 566 00:33:36,711 --> 00:33:39,471 Speaker 1: saw it, McFarlane and North were part of the same 567 00:33:39,551 --> 00:33:40,950 Speaker 1: American made machine. 568 00:33:41,271 --> 00:33:45,111 Speaker 16: My mother did not trust Bud MacFarlane or Colonel North 569 00:33:45,231 --> 00:33:49,230 Speaker 16: or George Schultz at all. She didn't believe anything they 570 00:33:49,311 --> 00:33:52,710 Speaker 16: told her, and she didn't really trust the information that 571 00:33:52,751 --> 00:33:53,311 Speaker 16: they gave her. 572 00:33:54,111 --> 00:33:54,311 Speaker 13: You know. 573 00:33:54,511 --> 00:33:57,871 Speaker 16: She didn't want to be uncooperative or ungrateful, but she 574 00:33:57,991 --> 00:34:06,470 Speaker 16: didn't really believe that they were being productive or being honest. 575 00:34:06,751 --> 00:34:10,431 Speaker 1: On August twentieth, nineteen eighty five, the first arms for 576 00:34:10,471 --> 00:34:14,871 Speaker 1: hostages trade between the US and Iran began. That evening, 577 00:34:15,191 --> 00:34:18,151 Speaker 1: ninety six anti tank missiles were loaded onto a plane 578 00:34:18,190 --> 00:34:22,151 Speaker 1: at Bengurian Airport in Tel Aviv. The operation was carried 579 00:34:22,151 --> 00:34:25,511 Speaker 1: out in complete secrecy. Only a handful of people knew 580 00:34:25,551 --> 00:34:29,151 Speaker 1: it was happening. According to Plan, the missiles were Israeli 581 00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:33,591 Speaker 1: owned and made in California. The cargo also included the 582 00:34:33,591 --> 00:34:37,471 Speaker 1: man responsible for putting the deal together, Manu Chair Gorbanifhar, 583 00:34:39,311 --> 00:34:44,631 Speaker 1: but after the shipment went through, no hostages were released. Instead, 584 00:34:44,911 --> 00:34:48,631 Speaker 1: Gorbanifar conveyed a new demand. He said the ninety six 585 00:34:48,631 --> 00:34:51,950 Speaker 1: missiles had been intercepted by hardliners in the Iranian Revolutionary 586 00:34:51,951 --> 00:34:56,390 Speaker 1: Guard Corps. His moderate contact in the Iranian government now 587 00:34:56,431 --> 00:35:01,111 Speaker 1: wanted four hundred more. Gorbanifar also said that the exchange 588 00:35:01,111 --> 00:35:04,830 Speaker 1: would only get one hostage released, not all seven, as 589 00:35:04,831 --> 00:35:09,071 Speaker 1: the Americans had been hoping. Bud McFarlane did not like 590 00:35:09,111 --> 00:35:10,270 Speaker 1: what he was hearing. 591 00:35:10,750 --> 00:35:14,430 Speaker 17: The kind of things that are obviouscations that tell you 592 00:35:14,511 --> 00:35:17,271 Speaker 17: either they're not competent to do this or that there's 593 00:35:17,351 --> 00:35:21,750 Speaker 17: malfeasance and you're being screwed here. And I said, look, 594 00:35:21,911 --> 00:35:28,151 Speaker 17: this is really unimpressive on their part and foolish on ours. 595 00:35:28,791 --> 00:35:30,631 Speaker 17: If we can't get this straightened. 596 00:35:30,190 --> 00:35:35,511 Speaker 1: Out, Reagan agreed to the terms of the new proposal. 597 00:35:36,871 --> 00:35:40,111 Speaker 1: A second Israeli shipment, this time carrying more than four 598 00:35:40,190 --> 00:35:45,151 Speaker 1: hundred missiles was sent to Iran. Meanwhile, MacFarland had received 599 00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:47,391 Speaker 1: a call from one of the many intermediaries he had 600 00:35:47,431 --> 00:35:49,951 Speaker 1: been dealing with and was told that he would have 601 00:35:49,951 --> 00:35:54,671 Speaker 1: to pick which hostage to release. As McFarland later described it, 602 00:35:55,071 --> 00:35:59,031 Speaker 1: he was being asked to play god. Despite the pressure, 603 00:35:59,431 --> 00:36:04,230 Speaker 1: MacFarland felt the choice was obvious. Administration officials have been 604 00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:08,151 Speaker 1: profoundly worried about William Buckley, a CIA officer. They were 605 00:36:08,151 --> 00:36:10,431 Speaker 1: worried about his health, of course, but they were also 606 00:36:10,551 --> 00:36:14,270 Speaker 1: really worried about the kidnappers getting classified information out of him. 607 00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:16,751 Speaker 1: So McFarland chose Buckley. 608 00:36:16,911 --> 00:36:20,911 Speaker 17: And clearly that's the one I favored, just out of 609 00:36:21,951 --> 00:36:24,511 Speaker 17: professional anguish. 610 00:36:25,031 --> 00:36:28,111 Speaker 1: But the kidnappers did not release The CIA station chief 611 00:36:28,911 --> 00:36:32,311 Speaker 1: Gorbanifar relayed that Buckley was too sick to be transferred. 612 00:36:33,230 --> 00:36:37,351 Speaker 1: This was a disturbing news. Either Buckley's condition was worsening 613 00:36:37,991 --> 00:36:40,230 Speaker 1: or the kidnappers thought they could get more weapons for 614 00:36:40,311 --> 00:36:51,991 Speaker 1: him later. Instead, the Americans were getting someone else. We'll 615 00:36:52,031 --> 00:37:00,990 Speaker 1: be right back. On September fifteenth, nearly five hundred days 616 00:37:01,031 --> 00:37:04,591 Speaker 1: after the Reverend Benjamin Weir was kidnapped, his family got 617 00:37:04,591 --> 00:37:06,671 Speaker 1: a call from the Reage administration. 618 00:37:06,911 --> 00:37:10,511 Speaker 16: Somewhat unexpectedly, we were told that my dad had been released. 619 00:37:11,111 --> 00:37:14,111 Speaker 16: At that particular moment, we weren't really expecting that news. 620 00:37:14,111 --> 00:37:17,191 Speaker 16: We'd had no premonition that that was going to happen 621 00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:20,511 Speaker 16: in any way. But we're also told, you know, you 622 00:37:20,631 --> 00:37:24,591 Speaker 16: really need to keep this quiet. We don't want anybody 623 00:37:24,631 --> 00:37:28,390 Speaker 16: to know. We think other people may be released, and 624 00:37:28,551 --> 00:37:31,591 Speaker 16: any type of public disclosure of this information right now 625 00:37:31,991 --> 00:37:34,431 Speaker 16: could put the release of the other people at risk. 626 00:37:34,951 --> 00:37:37,631 Speaker 1: The family traveled to a hotel in Virginia to gather 627 00:37:37,710 --> 00:37:39,591 Speaker 1: with officials from the federal government. 628 00:37:39,791 --> 00:37:42,270 Speaker 16: And then all of a sudden, there was a knock 629 00:37:42,311 --> 00:37:46,551 Speaker 16: on the door and there was my dad. Quite a shock. 630 00:37:50,270 --> 00:37:53,910 Speaker 1: Five days later, President Reagan announced that Weir had come home. 631 00:37:54,831 --> 00:37:57,710 Speaker 12: I'm pleased to inform you if at Reverend Benjamin Weir 632 00:37:58,071 --> 00:37:59,551 Speaker 12: has now been released. 633 00:38:03,311 --> 00:38:06,230 Speaker 1: Neither Weir, nor his family, nor anyone else outside of 634 00:38:06,270 --> 00:38:09,111 Speaker 1: Reagan's inner circle knew that Weir had been set free 635 00:38:09,151 --> 00:38:12,151 Speaker 1: as part of an arms for hostages deal, and so 636 00:38:12,311 --> 00:38:15,111 Speaker 1: the administration had to walk a very fine line between 637 00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:19,270 Speaker 1: celebrating Weir's release and keeping its distance. In the briefing room, 638 00:38:19,511 --> 00:38:23,071 Speaker 1: the official explanation was that foreign humanitarians had helped secure 639 00:38:23,111 --> 00:38:23,871 Speaker 1: Weir's freedom. 640 00:38:24,151 --> 00:38:26,870 Speaker 5: I can assure you that no deal was made and 641 00:38:26,911 --> 00:38:31,190 Speaker 5: that our position on no concessions two terrorists has not changed. 642 00:38:31,391 --> 00:38:34,391 Speaker 6: The President and other officials hinted strongly that US efforts 643 00:38:34,391 --> 00:38:37,351 Speaker 6: had obtained Reverend Ware's release, but they wrapped that claim 644 00:38:37,351 --> 00:38:40,230 Speaker 6: in a mystery of no comments. The impression left by 645 00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:42,471 Speaker 6: all of this is that things are afoot, that Reverend 646 00:38:42,471 --> 00:38:44,991 Speaker 6: Ware's release was no fluke, but the product of an 647 00:38:44,991 --> 00:38:48,031 Speaker 6: intense administration effort that could still result in the freeing 648 00:38:48,071 --> 00:38:48,791 Speaker 6: of the other six. 649 00:38:49,991 --> 00:38:52,830 Speaker 1: As far as William Buckley was concerned, he would never 650 00:38:52,871 --> 00:38:56,431 Speaker 1: be released. He had died before the first weapons shipment 651 00:38:56,551 --> 00:39:03,270 Speaker 1: ever touched down in Tehran. In the weeks after a 652 00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:06,511 Speaker 1: Weir's release, the big question for the Reagan administration was 653 00:39:06,551 --> 00:39:10,790 Speaker 1: what to do next. Six hostages remained in Beirut and 654 00:39:10,871 --> 00:39:14,511 Speaker 1: Manuchaer Gorbanifharr was saying that the Iranians wanted more weapons. 655 00:39:15,351 --> 00:39:17,710 Speaker 1: All of that meant that an opening to Iran and 656 00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:21,191 Speaker 1: potentially a path to regime change were still on the table. 657 00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:25,551 Speaker 1: But McFarland was starting to have serious doubts about Gorbanifhar. 658 00:39:26,270 --> 00:39:29,390 Speaker 1: Did this guy actually know any moderates in Iran or 659 00:39:29,471 --> 00:39:31,190 Speaker 1: was he just saying whatever he needed to say in 660 00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:33,151 Speaker 1: order to earn his commission on the weapons sales. 661 00:39:33,511 --> 00:39:37,151 Speaker 17: Well, the more I heard about Gorboni Fahar, the lower 662 00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:40,231 Speaker 17: my confidence that this had any plausibility. 663 00:39:40,951 --> 00:39:44,390 Speaker 1: McFarland was right to be skeptical. As it turned out, 664 00:39:44,551 --> 00:39:47,511 Speaker 1: the August arms deal wasn't the first time Gorbanifar had 665 00:39:47,551 --> 00:39:50,911 Speaker 1: approached the US government to offer help in releasing the hostages. 666 00:39:52,311 --> 00:39:53,431 Speaker 1: Here's Jane Mayer again. 667 00:39:53,951 --> 00:39:59,390 Speaker 10: He had already twice taken polygraphs at the CIA and 668 00:39:59,551 --> 00:40:03,671 Speaker 10: flunked them both in earlier episodes when he went to 669 00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:07,311 Speaker 10: the CIA and claimed that he knew who had kidnapped Buckley, 670 00:40:07,871 --> 00:40:12,190 Speaker 10: at which point the CIA labeled him a fabricator and 671 00:40:12,270 --> 00:40:15,230 Speaker 10: put out a burn notice, meaning don't deal with this guy. 672 00:40:16,471 --> 00:40:19,750 Speaker 1: By the fall of nineteen eighty five, McFarland was exhausted 673 00:40:19,911 --> 00:40:23,710 Speaker 1: and he was ready to retire from government. In late November, 674 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:25,910 Speaker 1: he told Reagan that he wanted to leave the administration. 675 00:40:26,911 --> 00:40:29,951 Speaker 1: He tried to resign once before, a year earlier, but 676 00:40:30,031 --> 00:40:32,351 Speaker 1: Reagan had convinced him to stay, telling him he considered 677 00:40:32,391 --> 00:40:39,991 Speaker 1: him indispensable. This time, Reagan accepted McFarland's decision. According to McFarlane, 678 00:40:40,270 --> 00:40:42,551 Speaker 1: he then told the President that the Iran initiative that 679 00:40:42,631 --> 00:40:45,591 Speaker 1: McFarland himself had introduced four and a half months earlier 680 00:40:45,911 --> 00:40:46,951 Speaker 1: was doomed to failure. 681 00:40:47,631 --> 00:40:50,551 Speaker 17: I didn't think it was working. I think, at best, 682 00:40:50,671 --> 00:40:54,790 Speaker 17: if there are any pragmatists in Iran, we're not in 683 00:40:54,871 --> 00:41:01,471 Speaker 17: touch with them. And the stakes here in terms of 684 00:41:01,511 --> 00:41:05,270 Speaker 17: the failure of the mission, but more importantly, the embarrassment, 685 00:41:05,671 --> 00:41:09,591 Speaker 17: even if it had succeeded and were disclosed, was just 686 00:41:09,591 --> 00:41:15,230 Speaker 17: too great. And wanted to leave government and did not 687 00:41:15,391 --> 00:41:18,710 Speaker 17: want to leave a ticking bomb Bill. 688 00:41:18,791 --> 00:41:21,711 Speaker 1: McFarlane was getting ready to leave the White House, Reagan 689 00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:24,031 Speaker 1: asked him to fly to London and discussed the arrangement 690 00:41:24,031 --> 00:41:27,790 Speaker 1: with Gorbonifhar in person. McFarlane was on a flight to 691 00:41:27,831 --> 00:41:32,071 Speaker 1: London that very night. Oliver North was already there, and 692 00:41:32,111 --> 00:41:35,071 Speaker 1: on Sunday, December eighth, the two of them met Gorbanifar 693 00:41:35,151 --> 00:41:38,111 Speaker 1: in a West End apartment belonging to an Israeli armsdeer. 694 00:41:38,871 --> 00:41:40,431 Speaker 1: The meeting did not go well. 695 00:41:41,871 --> 00:41:45,951 Speaker 17: It started off mildly enough, but I explained that the 696 00:41:45,991 --> 00:41:51,031 Speaker 17: President had heard my recommendation that it be discontinued because 697 00:41:51,031 --> 00:41:55,111 Speaker 17: there was simply was amounting evidence of bad faith on 698 00:41:55,190 --> 00:42:01,591 Speaker 17: the Iranian side. I said, this is a pointless, open ended, 699 00:42:01,911 --> 00:42:07,151 Speaker 17: bad idea, and my country, my president is unwilling to 700 00:42:08,311 --> 00:42:12,471 Speaker 17: accept the risks, and I'm here to convey his decision 701 00:42:12,551 --> 00:42:16,071 Speaker 17: that this simply will not go on. It's terminated. Immediately. 702 00:42:17,511 --> 00:42:25,271 Speaker 17: Gorbani far flared stormed around, said, you're foolish, you're crazy, 703 00:42:25,391 --> 00:42:30,471 Speaker 17: you're misguided, You're wrong. This will mature, it will develop. 704 00:42:30,671 --> 00:42:32,991 Speaker 17: I'm telling you, I've dealt with these people for a 705 00:42:32,991 --> 00:42:33,631 Speaker 17: long time. 706 00:42:34,631 --> 00:42:39,950 Speaker 13: And I said, I don't believe you, and we left. 707 00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:46,391 Speaker 1: When McFarlane returned to Washington, he reported that Gorbanifharr was 708 00:42:46,431 --> 00:42:49,991 Speaker 1: a borderline moron and called him the most despicable character 709 00:42:50,111 --> 00:42:53,991 Speaker 1: he had ever met. But as he prepared to clear 710 00:42:53,991 --> 00:42:57,431 Speaker 1: out his office, McFarlane says he feared that, despite his 711 00:42:57,511 --> 00:43:01,551 Speaker 1: best efforts, the Arms for Hostages program was not truly dead. 712 00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:05,950 Speaker 1: The President was simply too invested in bringing the hostages home. 713 00:43:06,991 --> 00:43:10,911 Speaker 17: I knew that his preoccupation was the safety of the 714 00:43:10,991 --> 00:43:14,831 Speaker 17: hostages would lead him to start this process up again, 715 00:43:16,511 --> 00:43:24,071 Speaker 17: and it was with doubt, in fact high prospect of 716 00:43:24,151 --> 00:43:30,510 Speaker 17: it being renewed that. I nonetheless tabled my resignation and left. 717 00:43:30,551 --> 00:43:34,511 Speaker 17: And I shouldn't have done it. I consider that I 718 00:43:34,551 --> 00:43:38,671 Speaker 17: had failed our country and retiring at that point. The 719 00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:44,511 Speaker 17: only person that could have stopped it was me, and 720 00:43:44,591 --> 00:43:45,390 Speaker 17: I didn't do it. 721 00:43:47,831 --> 00:43:51,270 Speaker 1: Look, Farland knew that Reagan trusted him. If he had 722 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:54,551 Speaker 1: stayed by the President's side, maybe he would have succeeded 723 00:43:54,551 --> 00:43:56,510 Speaker 1: at extinguishing the Iran initiative for good. 724 00:43:57,791 --> 00:43:59,991 Speaker 17: The President came to office, I think to be a 725 00:44:00,031 --> 00:44:03,391 Speaker 17: domestic president, and he never made any pretense at being 726 00:44:04,151 --> 00:44:07,111 Speaker 17: a man of great depth on foreign affairs. And for 727 00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:11,391 Speaker 17: him to say at the end in tears, but I 728 00:44:11,551 --> 00:44:16,431 Speaker 17: never had anybody I could count on as indispensable. 729 00:44:16,471 --> 00:44:23,830 Speaker 13: But you are that guy. Well I was, But. 730 00:44:25,951 --> 00:44:28,270 Speaker 17: From my first time at the Naval Academy. I mean, 731 00:44:29,871 --> 00:44:33,190 Speaker 17: it's in your bones. You know what your job is, 732 00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:38,591 Speaker 17: serve the country, and don't blame somebody else. Don't make 733 00:44:38,671 --> 00:44:43,470 Speaker 17: up pretense, don't figure out some excuse circumstances. It's kind 734 00:44:43,471 --> 00:44:48,871 Speaker 17: of blarny. I mean, step up. Now, you can solve 735 00:44:48,911 --> 00:44:52,031 Speaker 17: your soul by saying, well, the President asked me to 736 00:44:52,071 --> 00:44:55,551 Speaker 17: do it. But if you know, as I knew that 737 00:44:55,671 --> 00:44:58,471 Speaker 17: this was not going to work. I don't think there's 738 00:44:58,511 --> 00:45:02,231 Speaker 17: any way of salvaging that's that's something that gets sorted 739 00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:06,471 Speaker 17: out when you die and it's all over. But you 740 00:45:06,511 --> 00:45:12,151 Speaker 17: can at least stand up, tell the truth, take responsibility 741 00:45:14,270 --> 00:45:20,951 Speaker 17: and move on, and judgments will be rendered by people 742 00:45:21,031 --> 00:45:27,190 Speaker 17: that aren't really qualifyed. Whatever good you did while you 743 00:45:27,230 --> 00:45:30,871 Speaker 17: were in government, nobody will remember that. The ending of 744 00:45:30,911 --> 00:45:37,991 Speaker 17: the Cold War, bringing down Marxism, Soviet Union, reducing nuclear 745 00:45:37,991 --> 00:45:40,551 Speaker 17: weapons for the first time industry, all these things happened, 746 00:45:40,551 --> 00:45:44,951 Speaker 17: and nobody knows that and they never will. 747 00:45:45,031 --> 00:45:45,471 Speaker 13: And so. 748 00:45:47,511 --> 00:45:50,031 Speaker 17: Sure, if I had to do again, I would not 749 00:45:50,151 --> 00:45:56,310 Speaker 17: have let it go on. But I did, and there's 750 00:45:56,391 --> 00:46:00,471 Speaker 17: no changing the facts. 751 00:46:01,791 --> 00:46:03,710 Speaker 8: The changing of the guard today and a top White 752 00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:07,871 Speaker 8: House foreign policy job, national Security Advisor, Robert McFarland, resigned 753 00:46:07,871 --> 00:46:09,431 Speaker 8: and he was replaced by his deputy. 754 00:46:10,111 --> 00:46:11,790 Speaker 6: Farland was a Kissinger proteget. 755 00:46:12,151 --> 00:46:15,551 Speaker 11: He was appointed National Security Advisor as a quiet team player. 756 00:46:15,991 --> 00:46:19,871 Speaker 1: After McFarland's departure from the White House, talks between Oliver 757 00:46:19,991 --> 00:46:24,950 Speaker 1: North and Minuchair Gribonifar did indeed resume, and two months 758 00:46:25,031 --> 00:46:28,871 Speaker 1: later more American missiles were on their way to Iran. 759 00:46:41,031 --> 00:46:44,830 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Fiasco, the Reagan Administration's War 760 00:46:44,871 --> 00:46:47,911 Speaker 1: on Communism arrives secretly in Nicaragua. 761 00:46:48,311 --> 00:46:52,470 Speaker 19: I was confronted with questions which began more or less 762 00:46:52,511 --> 00:46:55,991 Speaker 19: as follows, mister ambassador, the CIA has blown up the 763 00:46:55,991 --> 00:47:00,431 Speaker 19: bridges connecting Nicaragua and Honduras. What do you think about this? 764 00:47:00,591 --> 00:47:02,230 Speaker 19: Start to your investorship. 765 00:47:07,791 --> 00:47:10,591 Speaker 1: For a list of books, articles, and documentary we used 766 00:47:10,591 --> 00:47:13,031 Speaker 1: in our research, follow the link in the show notes. 767 00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:16,991 Speaker 1: Fiasco is a production of Prologue Projects and it's distributed 768 00:47:17,031 --> 00:47:20,671 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries. The show is produced by Andrew Parsons, 769 00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:25,311 Speaker 1: Madeline kaplan Ula Kulpa and me Leon Mayfock. Our editor 770 00:47:25,351 --> 00:47:29,831 Speaker 1: was Camilla Hammer. Our researcher was Francis Carr. Additional archival 771 00:47:29,831 --> 00:47:33,631 Speaker 1: research from Caitlin Nicholas. Our music is by Nick Silvester. 772 00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:37,431 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is 773 00:47:37,431 --> 00:47:40,870 Speaker 1: by Teddy Blanks at Chips and y Audio, mixed by 774 00:47:40,951 --> 00:47:45,391 Speaker 1: Rob Buyers, Michael Rayphiel and Johnny Vince Evans. Copyright council 775 00:47:45,471 --> 00:47:49,431 Speaker 1: provided by Peter Yassi at Yass Butler Plc. Thanks to 776 00:47:49,511 --> 00:47:54,831 Speaker 1: Chris weir aviad Ryan Bonnell, Malcolm Burne, Shane Harris, Michael Ledeen, 777 00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:58,711 Speaker 1: Howard Titcher, TC Winter, as well as Sam Graham, Felsen, 778 00:47:58,831 --> 00:48:02,710 Speaker 1: Saya Shockley, and Katchak and Kova. Special thanks to Luminary 779 00:48:03,111 --> 00:48:17,230 Speaker 1: and thank you for listening.