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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: As somebody who is generally supportive of Maga in there

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Speaker 4: pressing the White House Press Secretary of an opportunity to

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Speaker 4: do it, how are you thinking about that?

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Speaker 5: We are forthright and our support for President Trump, And

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Speaker 5: I'm aware that maybe that's hard to square with the

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Speaker 5: idea of like being a journalist.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to be a Trump cheerleader for four years.

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Speaker 5: I don't really find any intellectual merit in doing that either,

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Speaker 5: if you can tell, like I love digging into documents,

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Speaker 5: I don't like standing there and being like Oh my.

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Speaker 6: Gosh, we took over Gossa.

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Speaker 4: I look at what Elon Musk is doing getting rid

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Speaker 4: of Usai, the amazing, cathartic, beautiful, a masterpiece. At the

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Speaker 4: same time, you now have like a genuine oligarch running

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Speaker 4: loose in the government.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's great to have unelected billionaires running

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Speaker 5: any government agency. But spare me, mainstream media the performative

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Speaker 5: outrage that you guys either a care about the constitution

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Speaker 5: or me that you care about unelected bureaucrats or billionaires

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Speaker 5: running government. So it's the framing of it. I sort

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Speaker 5: of rejected.

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Speaker 1: Right over here at Counterpoints. You know that we like

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Speaker 1: to have long form conversations with people in the journalist ministry,

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Speaker 1: find out where they came from, where they're going. Independent journalists, independent, independent.

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Speaker 4: Journalists Foratus, corporate apparatus.

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Speaker 1: We had Ezra New York Times loves to call itself independent.

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Speaker 1: That's true, which it technically is technically like they own themselves.

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Speaker 1: That's right, fair enough. We have my dropsite colleague Jeremy

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Speaker 1: Scahill and Matt Tibon. That was a fun one. Today

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Speaker 1: we've got another fun one. We're joined by Natalie Winters,

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Speaker 1: who is the White House correspondent for the war Room podcast.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 4: And I just want to say I think one blind

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Speaker 4: spot in DC, especially among Republicans, and maybe you've run

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Speaker 4: into this snadly. I'm curious. This might be a good

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Speaker 4: place to start to start. They don't realize.

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Speaker 6: How powerful war Room is.

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Speaker 4: If you look at the podcast charts, war Room is

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Speaker 4: routinely near the very very top. It is an extremely.

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Speaker 1: Powell about the numbers, like sure, with an internal look

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Speaker 1: because it does seem like because when you guys ask

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Speaker 1: your posse or what asked the posse to do? Stuff

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Speaker 1: like the phone lines melt down, so the numbers got

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Speaker 1: to be big. What can you put some like what

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Speaker 1: are your highest numbers? What are your average numbers?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 5: Sure, I feel like it's a dark moment when you

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Speaker 5: just called me a journalist to be.

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Speaker 6: Independent, Right, I guess I got it. I got to

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Speaker 6: accept it.

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Speaker 5: Look, I think our audience is so powerful for two reasons,

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Speaker 5: quality and quantity. What do I mean by that? We're

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Speaker 5: first and foremost a TV show. We're on Real America's Voice,

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Speaker 5: which is in I think nine million plus homes.

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Speaker 6: I think our average viewership average is.

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Speaker 5: At least around seven hundred thousand plus or mine is

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Speaker 5: probably a few hundred thousand. But that's just people who

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Speaker 5: are watching on a traditional TV that excludes all streaming,

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Speaker 5: all Rumble, all Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Live, watching lives Honest TV.

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, but that's.

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Speaker 5: Not including like I said, Rumble, which is another you know,

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Speaker 5: sixty thousand or so Twitter, the clips that go viral

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Speaker 5: after everything like that. So it's just a massive audience.

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Speaker 5: But to the quality. And I don't mean that our

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Speaker 5: viewers are better than yours. I just mean in terms

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Speaker 5: of engagement and grassroots activism, there really has never been

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Speaker 5: I think a more impactful or powerful audience. I would say,

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Speaker 5: just ask Kevin McCarthy. But any time that Steve Bannon,

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Speaker 5: who I always feel like what I call him my

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Speaker 5: co host, I am demeaning him.

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Speaker 6: It's Steve A. K. Bannon's war room. But they will

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Speaker 6: do it.

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Speaker 5: I've literally met audience members who take days off of

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Speaker 5: work to make phone calls, to call the Senate, to

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Speaker 5: call members of Congress, and in some ways I think

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Speaker 5: it's interesting. Actually, just last night they had Azra Eleven

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Speaker 5: of Indivisible on Rachel Mattaw talking about their sort of

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Speaker 5: resistance tactics, right, and they want to be burning down

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Speaker 5: the phone lines, they want to be writing off.

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Speaker 6: Eds in the local papers.

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Speaker 5: They have a very systematic sort of characterization of how

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Speaker 5: to push back.

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Speaker 6: Through their manuals.

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Speaker 5: And I think war Room has sort of culturally appropriated

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Speaker 5: a lot of the LEFS tactics, which I guess if

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Speaker 5: goes back to sort of McConnell in the early like

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Speaker 5: two thousands, right, so you know, you kind of a

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Speaker 5: debate over whose tactics they were. But I think Steve

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Speaker 5: Bannon has really capitalized on the art of the phone call.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I'm friends with a lot of members.

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Speaker 5: They're always texting us saying thank you for giving us

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Speaker 5: the cover to stand in the breach, to hold the line,

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Speaker 5: particularly against CRS kind of omnibus spending bills. So our

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Speaker 5: audience really really does have power. I'm honored to even

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Speaker 5: be able to speak to them. But I think people

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Speaker 5: really underestimate the power of our audience. But like I said,

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Speaker 5: I just asked Kevin McCarthy about the power of our No, it's.

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Speaker 1: Real, no, no, no doubt about it. It seemed like

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Speaker 1: the audience got steamrolled a bit by Musk in the

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Speaker 1: So let's talk. Let's start, well, actually, let's start with

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Speaker 1: the daily mail attack on you, because I think that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. That's what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are going to be curious about. Put up this. You

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Speaker 1: can put up this first element and then we'll get

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Speaker 1: to some more serious stuff. So if you're just listening

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Speaker 1: to this on the podcast, that this is a daily

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Speaker 1: mail headline, You're not a hostess at Hooters. You work

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Speaker 1: at the White House. Kennedy's maternal warning to the scantily

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Speaker 1: clad correspondent moaning about her fashion critics. So walk us

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Speaker 1: through what what happened here? So this goes back to

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Speaker 1: the new White House opens up, uh, it's press briefing

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Speaker 1: room to non traditional folks. Breitbart, you know, got a

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Speaker 1: little seat along the side there. Other people. They said,

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Speaker 1: go ahead and apply. I applied for one, you know,

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Speaker 1: I used to I had permanent ish badge under Obama,

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Speaker 1: then Biden for a while, then they took away a

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Speaker 1: bunch of badges from Yeah, so now I've wonder of

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Speaker 1: mine was one of those. They're like, everybody has to reapply,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not reapplying because KJP is

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Speaker 1: like not answering any questions, I'm just going to go

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Speaker 1: to the state department, like that's stop wasting my time.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't even reapply, but I have applied to

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Speaker 1: this new one. So they're letting in new people. So

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Speaker 1: then they let you in, and then there's this social

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Speaker 1: media meltdown over how you looked? What was how walk

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Speaker 1: us through what happened?

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Speaker 4: And before let me also ask because it was a

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Speaker 4: lot deeper than how you look, how you look, and

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Speaker 4: maybe you can win on this. It was even just

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Speaker 4: the fact of you being there was controversial to the

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Speaker 4: old guard, who really is uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: And in the old guard's defense, like, as you just

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Speaker 1: said yourself, you're brand new in thinking of yourself even

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Speaker 1: as a journalist. Yeah, sure, so you can imagine other

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Speaker 1: journalists are like waiting.

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Speaker 5: And then look, I think the way you framed it

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Speaker 5: is the right way, right the buried lead. The significant

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Speaker 5: angle of the story is that new media is in

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Speaker 5: there in oppressed briefing room that for so long has

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Speaker 5: sort of been an active or really I think just

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Speaker 5: sort of propaganda esque in terms of not answering real questions,

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Speaker 5: kicking out journalists that they disagree with, and now President

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Speaker 5: Trump and Caroline Levet are taking historic steps to put

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Speaker 5: in new media voices. And I think the story should

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Speaker 5: have been, Wow, Steve Bannon's war room is in the

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Speaker 5: White House. Yeah, it's a controversial twenty three year old

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Speaker 5: girl who's maybe said some edgy things, which I all

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Speaker 5: stand by, But that should have been the story. So

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Speaker 5: I sort of viewed it when it really started to

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Speaker 5: I think snowball and become.

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Speaker 6: A bigger and bigger thing.

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Speaker 5: It was like article after article after article, and the

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Speaker 5: Kennedy piece, which I think is a ridiculous accusation to

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Speaker 5: say that I was dressed like a hostess at Hooters.

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Speaker 6: I don't think Kashmir sweater with like Oli I was

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Speaker 6: gonna say.

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Speaker 5: I think like all of Fox has that, Alison olivia'sweat

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Speaker 5: it's like the most basic, Like I'm very basic. It's

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Speaker 5: the most basic swetner that exists. I think that was

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Speaker 5: obviously outlandish, but more precisely, I just think it's sort

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Speaker 5: of what Rather going back to the original story, they

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Speaker 5: had said that I was being slammed on Instagram in

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Speaker 5: comments for saying that I was dressed and appropriately. I've

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Speaker 5: gone through my comments the typical haters who will always

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Speaker 5: comment on anything I wear or anything I do. Sure,

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Speaker 5: they said what they said, but overwhelmingly it was an

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Speaker 5: outpouring of support from our audience and from people who

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Speaker 5: are really truly excited to have war room in the

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Speaker 5: press briefing room. Like I said, our audience played a

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Speaker 5: critical role in President Trump's victory. So they saw I

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Speaker 5: was like, Wow, this is amazing. So I know that's

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Speaker 5: what the Daily Mail does, that's their business model, the

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Speaker 5: rage bait, the clickbait headlines. But it wasn't like I

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Speaker 5: was being slammed for what I was wearing. So when

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Speaker 5: I saw the stories continue to pile up, and then

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Speaker 5: the Kennedy article, which was just so offensive and if

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Speaker 5: you read it, she refers to herself as like a

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Speaker 5: fellow hot person and saying that I showed up to

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Speaker 5: the White House trying to look like Barbie. Just all

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Speaker 5: these really bizarre attacks, I was like, this feels like

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Speaker 5: more to impune my character, our show and make us

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Speaker 5: seem unseerious and mock this sort of whole new media

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Speaker 5: operation and take away sort of reframe the story as

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Speaker 5: opposed to, Wow, let's give the Trump White House credit

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Speaker 5: for putting in alternative media voices instead, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 5: they're putting in, you know, just.

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Speaker 6: Some good looking chick because you.

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Speaker 5: Know whatever, and it's it's an annoying story too to

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Speaker 5: I think engage with. I mean, for starters, I think

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Speaker 5: our show has been deplatformed, decensored, demonetor like everything. They

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Speaker 5: only threw my boss in wet prison for four months,

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Speaker 5: so we're used to the attacks. So you know, a

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Speaker 5: daily mail criticized criticism on my outfit kind of peels

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Speaker 5: in comparison. But I just think more broadly, it sort

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Speaker 5: of represents really an effort to just delegitimize us. And

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Speaker 5: now I feel every time that I walk into the

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Speaker 5: press briefing room, it's like just a loaded situation. And

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Speaker 5: I mean the first time that I opened the door

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Speaker 5: and walked in, everyone looked at me was like, what

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Speaker 5: the heck are you doing here?

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Speaker 6: Like who are you? And I get it.

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Speaker 5: It's as and I respect that, but I do think

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Speaker 5: that my presence being there, what we were just talking about,

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Speaker 5: in terms of warroom's viewership, it sort of holds a

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Speaker 5: mirror to their face, and I think it raises more

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Speaker 5: broadly the question, which is something we always dive into

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Speaker 5: at warroom, which is sort of the idea of credentialism

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Speaker 5: or the idea of like what even is the mainstream

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Speaker 5: media and why they're referred to as the mainstream media

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Speaker 5: because we trounce them in viewership, and if you look

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Speaker 5: at the trajectory of viewership, I would take our trend

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Speaker 5: line over theirs because they're essentially perpendicular and we trounce

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Speaker 5: them an impact too in terms of our audience calling

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Speaker 5: phone line. So I'm just curious by what metric and

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Speaker 5: what standard right that they would think that they're more

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Speaker 5: deserving to be there. But it's just annoying because I

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Speaker 5: think to respond to these accusations, I then become like

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Speaker 5: the trope of what they want me to become.

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Speaker 6: Where I'm sitting here saying like.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, I wore a sweater, like sorry, I'm blonde, and

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Speaker 5: I'm like, that's so and it cracks me up too,

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Speaker 5: And I know I'm rambling but in the stories, but

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Speaker 5: it really cracks me up because, like, for your audience

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Speaker 5: who's not familiar with me, my background was in investigative reporting.

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Speaker 5: I was the person who had no social life. All

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Speaker 5: I did was stay up and go through like pharophilings

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Speaker 5: and the Federal Register and USA Spending dot gov and

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Speaker 5: reading Brookings Institution reports. I have like never traded off

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Speaker 5: being a young girl in media I love.

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Speaker 6: I always referred myself.

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Speaker 5: As like an autistic in so like I love researching,

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Speaker 5: and it was just funny to be portrayed as something

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Speaker 5: that I so don't view myself as, but then like

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Speaker 5: deciding how to push back against. It was my first

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Speaker 5: time ever really being smeared as something that I just

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Speaker 5: felt so desperate from.

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Speaker 1: Do some more. Let's hear some more background, like where

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Speaker 1: you came from?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, so where'd you grow up? And how'd you

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Speaker 1: become political for the first time?

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Speaker 6: Sure?

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Speaker 5: So, I was born and raised in Los Angeles in

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Speaker 5: Santa Monica, and my parents were conservative, but more run

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Speaker 5: of the mill kind of like a politically conservative, like

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Speaker 5: just default, like oh I just don't really want to

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Speaker 5: pay taxes like the classic trope. But I was fortunate

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Speaker 5: enough to go to a very Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Now are they still? No?

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Speaker 5: No, they're still My mom is like a Mike Lindell

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Speaker 5: super fan.

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Speaker 6: She's watched too much more room. My dad's maybe not

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Speaker 6: so much. On the bipillage right now.

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Speaker 5: But I was very blessed to have gone to probably

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Speaker 5: one of the most prestigious high schools in certainly California,

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Speaker 5: in the country, Harvard Westlake.

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Speaker 6: Which is Zebra Alex Marlow. Yes andlia Han.

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Speaker 4: I was going to say, this is this is not

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Speaker 4: uncommon in abandoned world that you come from.

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Speaker 6: The defects from Oweden's public school.

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Speaker 4: It's private, right, yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And the year that I was applying to college was

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Speaker 5: the year that Operation Varsity Blues, if you remember, the

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Speaker 5: girls like pretending to be on the growers. So actually

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Speaker 5: one of my best friends from elementary school was the

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Speaker 5: daughter of the individual people who sort of I guess

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Speaker 5: like radded to the Feds or leaked on the whole thing.

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Speaker 5: So that was an interesting just sort of like class

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Speaker 5: system understanding where I was like, oh, and for me,

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Speaker 5: getting into college at Harvard Westlake was like the apex.

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Speaker 6: It was why you existed, the paragon of existence, right.

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Speaker 5: And seeing a sort of admission system where it was

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Speaker 5: like you either had to be a first gen LGBTQ,

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Speaker 5: you know whatever to get in, or you had to

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Speaker 5: be some like old guard, old money, super blue bloody

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Speaker 5: type donating, you know, ten million dollars to.

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Speaker 6: A fake sports program.

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Speaker 5: I was like, oh, that's an interesting way to conceive

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Speaker 5: of American society, which I think is very bannon esque, right,

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Speaker 5: it is that Republican versus democrat.

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Speaker 6: I was never really into that, but it was very.

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Speaker 5: Like, oh, the elites and there's sort of woke pet

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Speaker 5: projects and then everyone else and concurrently on that timeline,

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Speaker 5: it was also or the year's prior, it had been

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Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. So I graduated high school in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 5: and I saw in twenty three and I was in

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Speaker 5: tenth grade during President Trump's twenty sixteen election cycle, and

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Speaker 5: I was not like the cringe person in the maga hat,

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Speaker 5: like trying to just cause conflict for the sake of

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Speaker 5: causing conflict. I remember at first I had like an

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Speaker 5: English teacher who was so radical, I mean, like the

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Speaker 5: short dyed hair. She ultimately became a they them and

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Speaker 5: encouraged other kids in our class to like transition like

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Speaker 5: the whole like literally the meme that you hear on

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Speaker 5: Fox News, like it was that kind of teacher. And

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Speaker 5: I remember one day I had lied to her because

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Speaker 5: it was the election day and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: because we were going around, she wanted us to all

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Speaker 5: tell stories of like how you know, politically and civically

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Speaker 5: engaged you were. And I was like, oh, I saw

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Speaker 5: like a young family voting and they all had like

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Speaker 5: Hillary weear on and it made me feel like really empowered,

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Speaker 5: and it was like the worst feeling that I ever had,

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Speaker 5: because I was like, I don't ever want to lie

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Speaker 5: to be and I don't want to live a truth

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Speaker 5: that is not my own. And very shortly after I

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Speaker 5: was like, I'm never doing that again. Got into a

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Speaker 5: very long form like controversial debate because they were having

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Speaker 5: a gender pay gap bake sale, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: the gender pay gap doesn't exist, rattled off to like

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Speaker 5: quintessential peak twenty sixteen culture war like prayer you talking points,

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Speaker 5: and from then on I think got sort.

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Speaker 6: Of type cast, at least in high school.

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Speaker 5: As like the Maga turning Point girl, which was so

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Speaker 5: not me. I always pride myself like I love my job,

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Speaker 5: but I have a you know, whole life outside of

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Speaker 5: it too, And I think that there's sort of this

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Speaker 5: weird urge to like type cast all conservatives on campus

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Speaker 5: as sort of like zoo animal that's your only personality.

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Speaker 6: And I did a podcast because.

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Speaker 5: They had started a show called Right on Point, and

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Speaker 5: I was under the impression that it was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: we can say what we want. And I'd been sort

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Speaker 5: of pushing the administration to bring conservative speakers. They had

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Speaker 5: literally had a member of the Communist Party USA come

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Speaker 5: and speak, and they had sort.

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Speaker 6: Of abdicated their role.

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Speaker 5: I would argue of admissions, and they kind of weaponized

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Speaker 5: that whole process just to accept essentially, like you know,

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Speaker 5: minority is the whole DEI trope. But I was very

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Speaker 5: disheartened sort of seeing all this happen around me, so

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Speaker 5: I tried to push back, not in like a hair

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Speaker 5: on fire kind of way, but just like raising points.

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Speaker 5: You guys say you care about diversity, what about diversity

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Speaker 5: of thought? And apparently what I said on the podcast

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Speaker 5: was really controversial. They had to call an emergency meeting

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Speaker 5: with like the Gay Straight Alliance, the Feminists Club, like

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Speaker 5: the Black Kids Club.

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Speaker 1: What'd you say?

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Speaker 6: I just said, I wasn't a feminist.

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Speaker 5: I was like, you know, I kind of explained why,

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Speaker 5: like Trump, particularly on immigration, it wasn't a lot more

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Speaker 5: radical now for.

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Speaker 4: Since in fact, when Ryan announced you were coming on

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Speaker 4: the shop I since referred to like Tranny is and

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Speaker 4: gone further along those lines, which I think is probably

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Speaker 4: an arc that a lot of people in your generation

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Speaker 4: have gone down in the last several years too.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think for sure.

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Speaker 5: I mean also to just from my perspective, before Steve

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Speaker 5: went to prison, I was doing more investigative reporting, particularly

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Speaker 5: on Chinese Communist Party infiltration, which I guess was where

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Speaker 5: I was getting to my story, and I'm very proud

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Speaker 5: of the work that I did, you know, members of Congress,

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Speaker 5: the Republican Study Commission, sided at the National Association of Scholars.

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Speaker 5: I broke a lot of stories about the origins of COVID,

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Speaker 5: stories from Hunter Biden's Hard Drive that led to the

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Speaker 5: removal of you know, Peter Dawshak from the COVID Origins

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Speaker 5: investigative team. Doing like I said, the exclusives listening to

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Speaker 5: the audio tapes from Hunter Biden's hard Drive is I think,

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Speaker 5: an extremely cool career accomplishment. I was, you know, nineteen

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Speaker 5: or twenty at the time, so I always focused on that,

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Speaker 5: and my approach to doing media was like, I never

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Speaker 5: want to be an opinion commentator because I was very

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Speaker 5: cognizant of my age, and I think being a woman too.

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Speaker 5: I was just like, I don't ever want to come

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Speaker 5: off like my opinion matters because it doesn't like I

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Speaker 5: don't have experience, Like I was very cognizant of that,

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Speaker 5: always abstained from doing opinion commentary. And then when Steve

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Speaker 5: went to prison and I joined the show about two

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Speaker 5: years ago as a co host, I couldn't just rattle

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Speaker 5: off my like deep dive researching for an hour while

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Speaker 5: hosting a show, right, It's a different gig.

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Speaker 6: So I always joke that, like, the.

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Speaker 5: Worst thing they did was send Steve to prison because

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Speaker 5: it helped me kind of find my broadcasting voice and

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Speaker 5: go on the rants, which I know we were talking about,

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Speaker 5: but that sort of forced me, pushed me into that role.

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Speaker 5: But to my core, deep down, I'm like an OPO

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Speaker 5: researcher and I wish I had the time and the

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Speaker 5: chance to do that more. But I also think people

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Speaker 5: people like the rants. They like the kind of inflammatory content.

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Speaker 5: Not that I'm you know, trying to be like the

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Speaker 5: Daily Veil and go for clickbait, but you know, if

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Speaker 5: you're doing these long form investigative pieces and no one's

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Speaker 5: reading them.

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Speaker 6: It's kind of like, what's what's the point.

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Speaker 1: We have a clip from one short's going.

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Speaker 6: To make me watch myself?

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Speaker 4: I need that.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty short. So yeah, let's ex two here.

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Speaker 5: These House Republicans, they love to focus on the culture

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Speaker 5: war so much, right, the limited hangout that the trannys

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Speaker 5: in the bathrooms? Right, Well, Speaker Johnson and most of

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Speaker 5: your colleagues, maybe there are a few good ones, the

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Speaker 5: ones we have on this show, But I would humbly

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Speaker 5: suggest that before you start screaming about transgender surgeries, that

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Speaker 5: you focus on yourself because last time I checked, you

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Speaker 5: don't even have any balls. And I'm not being hyperbolic

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Speaker 5: when I say that, I'm actually just quoting you, Speaker Johnson.

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Speaker 5: Let's introduce you to a version of yourself just a

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Speaker 5: few months ago, who pledged that we were not going

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Speaker 5: to have a Christmas time omnibus. But oops, here we are, Denver.

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Speaker 1: Let's roll it so it goes. It goes on from there,

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Speaker 1: so obviously from the left to people who don't use

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Speaker 1: phrases like trannies. But one piece of that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to pick up on is what is an inherently left

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Speaker 1: wing analysis in there? Which is that elites use culture

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Speaker 1: war yeah drama to distract from material analysis. And I

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Speaker 1: was telling you before you came to the show that

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Speaker 1: oftentimes I'll listen to your rants and I'll be like

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Speaker 1: nodding along.

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Speaker 4: He's a very regular listener.

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Speaker 1: I'll be like nodding along for all yep, yep, check

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Speaker 1: check check check, and then it'll veer off and I'm like, WHOA, well, ky,

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Speaker 1: this is where I get off, and you you head

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Speaker 1: over here. I wonder and I'm I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 1: following your career because I wonder if and say the

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Speaker 1: same with you, like I feel like there's a more

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Speaker 1: space on the left for you guys, if you if

439
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: you can recognize like fully that that this culture war

440
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 1: stuff is genuinely what you're what you were saying it

441
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: was in that clip, That is, it is an elite

442
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: distraction from intended to divide the working class so that

443
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: the elites can go ahead and then accomplish their agenda.

444
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: In this show, we're always in you know, the right.

445
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: Left wing populism and right wing populists are always intention

446
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: and my my argument consistently is that they're whatever the

447
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of motivations of good right wing populists. Actual right

448
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,719
Speaker 1: wing populism in practice winds up being co opted by

449
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: the elon Musk's like the Ken Martin, who became the

450
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: DNC chair recently rightly has gotten pillaried for this hilarious

451
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: clip of him where he says, we're not going to

452
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: take money from bad billionaires, but there are good billionaires

453
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: and good like that's he should be pillaryed for that,

454
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: because that's completely absurd. Right wing populism often falls into

455
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: that same trap that and that's why sometimes it falls

456
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: into conspiracism too and anti semitism, because the left has

457
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: a structural analysis it's the one percent those are the

458
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: bad ones, and there's no division between within the one percent.

459
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: They're all bad, they're all capitalists, they're all ripping, ripping

460
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: off the workers. For the right, when they say it's

461
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: these cosmopolitan elites that are the bad ones and there's

462
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: and there's some good ones like Musk or others, sometimes

463
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 1: what that analysis needs is anti semitism to say it's

464
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: actually the Jews who are doing it. I'm not saying

465
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 1: that the war room does that, but like that, I

466
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: think that's why you get the strain of anti Semitism

467
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 1: and right wing popular.

468
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 4: Because populism as well, far left wing populism has the

469
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 4: same problem.

470
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: Well it shouldn't because it can say that all bankers

471
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: are bad. It doesn't have to say that Jewish bankers

472
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: are bad.

473
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: Yes, but they will say that all of the bankers

474
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 4: are Jewish bankers, Sorrytalie.

475
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: And if they do, they should be run out. But anyway,

476
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: so there's this tension between the different wings of populism

477
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 1: and uh so, and I often hear you talking about

478
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: you and and and Steve Bannon as well, talking about

479
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: the way that they're trying to divide people. Bannon recently

480
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: in that New York Times column was saying, Yeah, the

481
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: Democrats screwed up because they beat Dornie Sanders like if.

482
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: And I've spoken to him over the years, and I

483
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: know he's being he's he's said this in real time,

484
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: genuine he thought. He thinks Rokanna has a good analysis.

485
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: He thinks Elizabeth Warren had a good populist economic populist analysis,

486
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: and that if Democrats had effectively been able to render

487
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: that then they would have had more purchase with regular

488
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: people than they than with whatever this Ken Martin style

489
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: DNC stuff is, so you know, so, how did how

490
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: did your politics wind up kind of where they are?

491
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 5: Well, I too, am an avid consumer of MSMBC. We're

492
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 5: the same kindred spirits, and I'm trying to understand why

493
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 5: I like watching it so much. I think I like

494
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 5: hate watching My conclusion I've come to is it's like

495
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 5: a slot machine. It's very dope magenic because you never

496
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 5: know when they're going to say something crazy, right, so

497
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 5: you're very hooked in. But I think that that clip

498
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 5: is sort of I think very I would say representative

499
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 5: of the distinction between war room and traditional conservative media

500
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 5: because that night, probably you know, Fox News's main story

501
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 5: was the transgender bathroom bill and the whole like Nancy

502
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 5: Mace debacle, and we're like, okay, yes, that's an important issue,

503
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 5: but it's sort of a shiny toy. It's a distraction.

504
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 5: And I think that that's how Washington has operated for

505
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 5: a very long time. I know, whence you was in prison,

506
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 5: we were really staunchly against the crplus Save Act because

507
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 5: we're like, you guys have done nothing for election integrity

508
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 5: for the two years you've been here.

509
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 6: Don't tell us now.

510
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 5: Like a month before the election, that you suddenly care about,

511
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 5: you know, securing elections. So that's where we need to

512
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 5: get behind omnibus spending like you guys have done for

513
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 5: what like sixteen times in the past few years. So

514
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: that is I think, you know, the tranny referends aside

515
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 5: an interesting I think sort of clip that shows you

516
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 5: the difference where our show, I think sort of excels

517
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 5: in terms of act taking on these issues.

518
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 6: But I think it's interesting.

519
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 5: And this is something too that Steve and I have

520
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 5: sort of talked about on the show a lot, which

521
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 5: is how Democrats will triage their twenty twenty four loss,

522
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 5: because whatever they choose to identify as being the variable

523
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 5: will obviously sort of dictate how they then progress forward.

524
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: And I think in the beginning you saw a lot

525
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 5: of meltdown over like misinformation and disinformation and we need

526
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 5: our own Joe Rogan, and you know, then that's sort

527
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 5: of a different position that they would take of like, Okay,

528
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 5: well we got to double down on the censorship.

529
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 6: We need to like fund independent media.

530
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 5: Though I think the way they use the term independent

531
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 5: media is a little cagy. But I think the civil

532
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 5: war that's brewing that I think Frankly, if it pans

533
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 5: out the way that.

534
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 6: You're probably more inclined for it too.

535
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 5: If it does pan out that way, it's bad for Republicans,

536
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 5: it's bad for like my side, the populist right, is

537
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 5: that the sort of more I think non establishment wing

538
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 5: in the Democratic Party wants to take us on. I

539
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 5: think probably has more similarities with us on protect workers rights.

540
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 5: You're against the H one B visa stuff, and that's

541
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 5: what most Americans I think support, right, it's sort of

542
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 5: the reorientation of the political system outside of Republican versus Democrat,

543
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 5: but like American workers and the ruling class, like Steve

544
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 5: always says, And I think what you're seeing now is,

545
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 5: you know, even with Ken Martin, like the Democratic establishment

546
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 5: and the same way that they sabotage Bernie Sanders, just

547
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 5: a refusal to hand it over to the sort of

548
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 5: more activist wing of their party, which they like to

549
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 5: decry and I think sort of villainizes like a bunch

550
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 5: of you know, Hamas caused.

551
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 6: Player protester types, which is part of your party. I'm

552
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 6: sorry to report.

553
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 5: But I also think that there are a lot of

554
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 5: like you know, the more disaffected Democrat coalition and I

555
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 5: think if you guys were to take those issues like immigration,

556
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 5: like workers rights, even Bernie Sanders was on the warm side.

557
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 6: Of the HMMBVSA debate, right, that's a lot more politically salient.

558
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 5: I do think, however, that the version of left wing

559
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 5: populism here in the United States is I think sort

560
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 5: of weighed down by the identity politics in terms of

561
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 5: you guys can't support you know, deportations or ice raids,

562
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 5: or strengthening the border or saw the idea of sovereignty,

563
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 5: because I think you guys are not saying you in particular,

564
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 5: but have really bought into some really radical propositions about

565
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 5: you know, like you know, starting off the DNC with

566
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 5: like the Stolen Land declaration and just the idea that

567
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: deportations are racist and that if you talk about, you know,

568
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 5: a great replacement theory, that like that's totally not happening,

569
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 5: that's a conspiracy. It's like, well, that's not a racialized sentiment,

570
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 5: it's a replacement theory, and it's happening of American workers, right.

571
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 5: They're importing our replacement and they're making Americans train their replacements.

572
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 5: So I think that the refusal for the populace left

573
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 5: to sort of engage.

574
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 6: With that issue.

575
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 5: Please keep doing it because it helps us. But if

576
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 5: you guys were to really embrace that, like you know,

577
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris said, for I guess, for the first time

578
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: ever in her history, the word sovereignty down while she

579
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 5: was talking in the Arizona border during the campaign trail,

580
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 5: or the patriotic flags inside the DNC.

581
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 6: It sort of took everyone for a shock. They're like,

582
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 6: what the heck? This is so new.

583
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 5: But I don't think that the democratic elites will allow

584
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 5: that to happen. And even that Senator I forget who

585
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 5: did a whole tweet thread where they basically said that, like,

586
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 5: it's bad for our donors if we embrace populism.

587
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: I missed that one, but yeah, it certainly is intention

588
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: with the donors.

589
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: Well, and this is like a obviously a huge conversation

590
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 4: about the ideological overrap lap. We have a question from

591
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: one person in our audience, Nathan Carasberg.

592
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: Gest readers that our viewers to send stuff in And.

593
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: Nathan, that's what would it take for the populist left

594
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: and the populist right to agree to disagree on culture

595
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: and unite against the techno feudalists and transhumanists. Otherwise, I

596
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: don't see how we humans win. And this is a

597
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 4: really interesting question because of kind of the H one

598
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 4: visa dust up that we were talking about earlier in

599
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: that Elon Musk super pro H one B visa's behind

600
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 4: neuralink and a lot of AI software's complicated. Person but

601
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 4: that's the bucket that he's in. And for a lot

602
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 4: of people in the populist right, this is really offensive

603
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 4: and it's sort of exactly what the fight against the

604
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 4: left was.

605
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: Who was given credit, Nathan.

606
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 4: Finberg was positioned datas for a really long time. So

607
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 4: I'm curious what you make of Nathan's question, Natalie from

608
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: your vantage point, like can everyone agree to disagree on

609
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 4: culture or is this actually part and parcel of the

610
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: cultural war in and of itself.

611
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 5: Well, I think that H one B eight all of you,

612
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 5: there's so many visa categories. It's insane that debate. It's wild,

613
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 5: Like that sort of represented that sort of re orientation,

614
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 5: like the political fracturing I think you saw most acutely

615
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 5: on the Republican side of things. I will say I

616
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 5: think it was really just kind of war room from

617
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 5: like an immedia perspective. Who and Steve Who who held

618
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 5: the line most people right, really kind of jumped on

619
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 5: the Elon Musk bandwagon.

620
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 6: And I don't know.

621
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 5: I mean, I think for starters, I love the idea

622
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: of a big tent, right, I love the idea of

623
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 5: bringing people in, and it's maybe great to see the

624
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 5: tech bros liking us, But you know, I also think too,

625
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: like you have to preserve some of the reasons that

626
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 5: those people didn't like us in the beginning, and that

627
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 5: was because we weren't like I would argue the Obama

628
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 5: White House that was just like, hey, here's free a

629
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 5: liv bit of money.

630
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 6: We're not going to regulate you, just like please support

631
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 6: us it.

632
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 4: Musk didn't like Trump in the beginning, and you, Musk

633
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,719
Speaker 4: took a lot of money from Obama to start Tesla

634
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: when it was not start, but to reinvigorate Tesla exactly.

635
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 5: And we've even more broadly, I think, have been very

636
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 5: critical of the tech bro like newfound Maga conversion.

637
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 6: I think it's very performative.

638
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 5: I think they have tried to do a kind of

639
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: limited hangout version of what they did to the Maga movement,

640
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 5: where they're like, oh, sorry, we accidentally censored you. I'm like, no, no,

641
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: you algorithmically manipulated, blacklisted, censored, D banked D platforms spent

642
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 5: what a billion dollars to like mess with the twenty

643
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 5: twenty election, So we're not going to let you get

644
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 5: away with that on like a two page letter, Mark Zuckerberg.

645
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 5: But I think that to me, the H and B

646
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 5: VSA debate was something that was very eye opening because

647
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 5: I have done War and what for four is years now,

648
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 5: which makes me feel very old.

649
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 4: It's like your entire adult life really, since.

650
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 6: I did the show the first time when I was

651
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 6: nineteen mm hm.

652
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 5: Fun fact, I had no Wi Fi connection at my house,

653
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 5: so I had to do it in a friend's kitchen

654
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 5: and I was standing up.

655
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 6: So we've come a long way. I'm sitting down in

656
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 6: a studio.

657
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 5: But I had never received such an outpouring of support

658
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 5: from our audience because we took a really hard line.

659
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 5: I did an hour long episode with Steve where I

660
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 5: sort of dug into the myth that is a, we

661
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 5: need to be importing a bunch of foreign workers and

662
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 5: B that the people who were therefore importing are the

663
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 5: best and the brightest, and it wasn't I think talking

664
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 5: points that anyone had really heard.

665
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 6: I stayed up literally all night, and I just.

666
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 5: Like read every government testimony ever, government report, like read

667
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 5: a book on I was just like, the data is

668
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 5: truly astounding.

669
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 6: You never hear about it. This was all based on

670
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 6: a lie.

671
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: And of every issue I've ever covered, I never received

672
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 5: so many messages from people, not just saying like, yes,

673
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 5: you're on it, you're on the right side, but more

674
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 5: importantly people being like this is my lived reality. Like

675
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 5: I was replaced, I had to train a replacement, my

676
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 5: wife did this, my son can't get a tech job.

677
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: And that was when I really had a realization. I

678
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 5: was like, Wow, this really is a politically significant and

679
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 5: palpable issue. Like talk about the bathrooms, okay, whatever, that's

680
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 5: the crux of it. And frankly, I think the sort

681
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 5: of irony or paradox of the whole, like vivek situation,

682
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 5: was that I think the H one BH two be

683
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 5: all the visa categories. I think that's something that's just

684
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 5: sort of gets swept under the rug, like people don't

685
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 5: really know about it, like they do know about it,

686
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 5: like you know, vaguely. It's like a nebulous thing. It's like, yeah,

687
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 5: we're certainly like importing a bunch of workers.

688
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 6: It's kind of symbolic, yeah, but it's not like, oh

689
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 6: my gosh.

690
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 5: When you actually get the numbers and you see who's overstaying,

691
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 5: you're like, wow, this is a really, really, really deep problem.

692
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 5: And I think that they sort of unintentionally expose themselves

693
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 5: by like forcing a conversation, because now you know when

694
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 5: the hebh to bo whenever visa sort of regulation or

695
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 5: legislation comes.

696
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 6: Through Congress or President Trump speaks on it.

697
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 5: It's now such a hot button issue where I think

698
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: we're on the right side of it.

699
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: But are you destined to divorce with Musk?

700
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 6: I mean, he gets a seat at the table, and

701
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 6: you know what I mean.

702
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 5: I think he recognized what was going on in Pennsylvania.

703
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 5: I think they were smart to not put all their

704
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 5: money into just like super TV ads, but it was

705
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 5: like boots on the ground, door knocking grassroots, like.

706
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 6: We have an affinity there. But he gets a seat

707
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 6: at the table.

708
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 5: He doesn't get like a commandeering presence to co opt

709
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 5: the entire MAGA movement. And I think that Warroom has

710
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 5: really been instrumental in pushing back against him, like imagine

711
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 5: a world in which Steve Bannon wasn't there from within

712
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 5: the Maga tent to be pushing back against some of

713
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 5: the stuff that Elon does. And I also think too,

714
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 5: like there's a very strong mindset to make everything very

715
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 5: black and white, like it's gray, Like some of the

716
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 5: stuff Elon does is good and some of it.

717
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 6: Is probably not good.

718
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 5: And maybe MSNBC's criticisms of him are accurate, and maybe

719
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 5: they're not, but I think it shows why. Frankly, I

720
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 5: think they don't want a sort of how we say, rogue,

721
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 5: kind of war Room esque outlet right because we call it,

722
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 5: we call the balls and stricks, like we are not afraid.

723
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 5: We don't cater or cow tow to anyone. I would

724
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 5: argue we're actually dependent. We're not beholden to anyone in

725
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 5: Maga world or the other side.

726
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 4: But you're playing and ask tough questions then of Caroline

727
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 4: love It, which if people don't listen to war Room,

728
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 4: very critical of Musk, very critical of certain moves when

729
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 4: you get on the wrong side. So I think that's actually.

730
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 5: People want mass deportations and we will, we need them.

731
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 5: And if we are not meeting that benchmark, then I'm

732
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 5: going to be asking about it. If we're not meeting

733
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 5: the benchmark on certain policy proposals or campaign promises that

734
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 5: our audience worked so hard to get them elected, I'll

735
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 5: be asking about that, which I think.

736
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 6: Is really funny.

737
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 5: The idea that, like I'm there's some like lackey to

738
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 5: just you know, make the Trump admin look great. I

739
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 5: think they've been doing wonderful stuff so far most part.

740
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 5: But my job there is to sort of speak for

741
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 5: our audience, and we've been very forthright in criticizing when

742
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 5: you know, criticized, criticism is necessary. We shouldn't be stapling

743
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 5: green cards to diplomas, and we criticized that. Yeah, And

744
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 5: I think the like trope of us is like Trump

745
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 5: sycophants or something is very off base if you actually

746
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 5: and this you too, like you were saying, so many

747
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 5: people don't actually watch War Room. And some of the

748
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 5: most like interesting funny conversations I've ever had is when

749
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 5: people start, you know, totally a political classic, oh so

750
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 5: what do you do?

751
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 6: And I'm always like, I work in media, and they're like,

752
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 6: you know, finally it's like the eighth question. I'm like, Okay,

753
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 6: I'll just tell you what I do. Oh, you work

754
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 6: for Steve Bannon. I thought he hates women and he's

755
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 6: like a Nazi and blah blah blah.

756
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 5: And I'm like, actually, no, Steve is for like taxing

757
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 5: the billionaires as much as possible. He's against concentrated well,

758
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 5: he's for breaking this up. And you know, he's all

759
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 5: about the America work. And they're like, oh my gosh,

760
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 5: that's so not what I thought he was, which I

761
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 5: think sort of speaks the way they've sort of defamed

762
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 5: the right wing populist movement because it is such a

763
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 5: politically powerful force, and.

764
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: So compared to Musk, there are a lot of people

765
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: on the left that would prefer that Bannon when it

766
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: comes to those pieces that you laid out, not necessarily

767
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: the master deportations, but the other parts that he beat Musk.

768
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: And so we have a question here from David Flagg.

769
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: He says, what can liberals do to support Bannon over Musk? So, well,

770
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, what would you what would you tell that

771
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: is a good question.

772
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 6: Well, let's see, I got to put myself in the

773
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 6: mind of both liberals and Steve V. K.

774
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: Bannon or not really, because pretend they're liberally are going

775
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: to do what you tell them to do. I think

776
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: what their question is because they don't really understand the

777
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: right wing ecosystem, and they don't know what levers to

778
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: pull and what would help and what what wouldn't help.

779
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes what they do would backfire. They might if they

780
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: support something, then it might lead someone the right to

781
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: be like, well, if Bernie and AOC are for that,

782
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: it must be bad.

783
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 5: I think what I would say is, I think the

784
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 5: media has a playbook with how they are covering the

785
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 5: Trump administration, and to sort of back into this, they

786
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 5: don't have any levers of governmental or institutional power right

787
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 5: now to necessarily push back.

788
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 6: Right They've lost like everything.

789
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 5: And I think if you read or just listen to MSNBC,

790
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 5: but sort of historically their playbook, and you know, I'm

791
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 5: inclined to bring up sort of like the norm Eisends

792
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 5: of the World, the Brookings Institution, their democracy playbook, how

793
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: they've sort of pushed for regime change in foreign countries

794
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 5: that's been through the idea of civil society in an

795
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 5: opposition to what they call democratic backsliding. And I have

796
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 5: always viewed the depiction of President Trump as a dictator

797
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 5: as an autocrat, as an authoritarian, as part of a

798
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 5: sort of narrative game to sort of stick us in

799
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 5: the mindset of like, oh, we're having democratic backsliding going on. Therefore,

800
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 5: even though we don't have the constitutional or electoral authority

801
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 5: to impeach Trump or push back against him, we're justified

802
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 5: because we're defending democracy. And I think the Elon Musk

803
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 5: coverage oftentimes, when it gets reduced into Elon is acting

804
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: like an autocrat and it's a hostile takeover of the

805
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 5: United States government, it's not really all that hostile. I

806
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 5: think Elon played a pretty visible role in the campaign trial.

807
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 5: I think Doze was probably one of the most visible

808
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 5: campaign promises of President Trump's twenty twenty four campaign. I

809
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 5: just would sort of reject that framing. So, if you

810
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 5: want to criticize Elon Musk, I don't think it's a

811
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 5: very powerful tactic to decry him as like unelected dictator,

812
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 5: shadow president evilman. I think it's more powerful when he

813
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 5: messes up on issues like the m B visa to

814
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 5: just call it out more plainly for what it is.

815
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: And I think remind Trump right that the people elected

816
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 5: you for the right wing populism stuff the Bannon world

817
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 5: view a step. I would attack it more from the

818
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 5: angle of like put American workers first, not oh, we

819
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 5: have to get rid of Elon Musk and defend USAID

820
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 5: because Elon's being an autocrat and he wasn't elected.

821
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 6: I'm sorry.

822
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 5: The whole agency is run by unelected baracots and billionaires

823
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 5: run the Democratic Party.

824
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 6: So I think those attacks are.

825
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 5: A lot more powerful than like buying into the paradigm

826
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 5: that it's dictator Elon and dictator Tron.

827
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 4: So from the perspective of a conservative populist, I look

828
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 4: at Elon Musk and sort of like what Ryan Gerduski,

829
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 4: I don't know, did you see his post about Musk.

830
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 4: He said, let's just say there was a billionaire who's

831
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 4: made most of their money from businesses whose success was

832
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: based on government contracts and subsidies. The way you go

833
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 4: from being a billionaire to being a trillionaire is getting

834
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 4: a hold of government data and using it for your

835
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 4: next business. I thought that was pretty interesting because, again,

836
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 4: like as another served a populist, I look at what

837
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 4: Elon Musk is doing getting rid of USAID. Amazing, cathartic, beautiful,

838
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 4: a masterpiece. But at the same time, you now have

839
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 4: like a genuine oligarch running loose in the government, and

840
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: I can see easily how it would be a way

841
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 4: to enrich He could use it as a way to

842
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 4: enrich himself. And I feel like people who were against

843
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 4: the concentration of power in the hands of people like

844
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 4: Elon Musk on principled ideological reasons, I worry that we're

845
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 4: sort of getting numb to having him run loose in

846
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: the government. And I'm curious what you make of just

847
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: like from the principle of Elon Musk coming in and

848
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 4: cleaning house potentially in a way that could enrich himself,

849
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: what is that? Do you have similar sort of like

850
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: principled ideological aversions to the idea of as you said, well, okay,

851
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: under Biden it was on elected bureaucrats in the pockets

852
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 4: of billionaires. But then do we end up with like

853
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,280
Speaker 4: replacing those un elected bureaucrats in the pockets of billionaires

854
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 4: with they're unlike to bureaucrats' billionaires.

855
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 5: Our bureaucrats are better than their billaiers are right than

856
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 5: their billaires. No, I think there's there's so many verticals

857
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 5: that they're kind of carrying out this what I'm sure

858
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 5: Steve would call like deconstruction of the administrative state. And

859
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 5: I think you just have to take kind of each agency,

860
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: each department through its own paradigm. And what do I

861
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 5: mean by that, Like what's going on with DOJ and FBI.

862
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 5: I think that's more like a legal battle like unitary

863
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 5: executive theory, Like is President Shrump's chief magistrate? Like does

864
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 5: the president have authority over not as the mainstream media

865
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 5: makes it like, oh, he wants to control over all

866
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 5: three branches, but no of the entire executive branch.

867
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 6: Does he have the right to hire and fire?

868
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 5: And I think that's what you're seeing go down right

869
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 5: now with like the FBI purge right in the lawsuits

870
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 5: that they're putting out getting rid of January sixth agents,

871
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 5: Like that's the paradigm to view that through the USAID thing. Yeah,

872
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 5: I don't think it's great to have unelected billionaires running

873
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 5: any government agency.

874
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 6: Of course that's bad.

875
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 5: But spare me means media the performative outrage that you

876
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 5: guys either a care about the Constitution or b that

877
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 5: you care about unelected bureaucrats or billionaires running government so

878
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 5: it's the framing of it I sort of reject, but

879
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 5: I think you just have to take it.

880
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 6: I mean, day by day.

881
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 5: I mean I also think too, I'm also sort of inclined,

882
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 5: and maybe this is a little less ideological, but I

883
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 5: remember President Trump, what did he say in twenty sixteen

884
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 5: when he was talking to African Americans?

885
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 6: He's like, what do you guys have to lose? And

886
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 6: I sort of feel.

887
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 5: Like that's the approach of the Trump administration now in

888
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 5: a more broad sort of whole of government, whole of

889
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 5: society approach, which I mean by that it's like, we're

890
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 5: so fiscally insolvent. Fiscally it's so bad, Like what do

891
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 5: we have to lose by maybe taking a chance on

892
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 5: another way of running the government. And yes, I'm sure

893
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 5: you would give me a whole litany.

894
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 6: Of what we have to lose.

895
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 5: But on the other hand, what we're doing is not working,

896
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 5: and what we've been doing at USAID is not working.

897
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 5: And I think that there's this desire to sort of

898
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 5: whitewash and euphemize, particularly in the context of usaideas like oh,

899
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 5: we're helping Bangladeshi refugees eat, and it's like well, maybe,

900
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 5: I mean, what is like twelve cents to the dollar

901
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 5: actually makes it over to whatever country it actually is.

902
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 5: But a lot of those usaid programs not only are

903
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 5: a really concerning and have to do with like funding

904
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 5: biological weapons in China and collaborating with DARPA.

905
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 6: And stuff where you're like, what is going on here?

906
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 5: But as someone who frequents the USA spending you know,

907
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 5: database website a lot, there also is no oversight. And

908
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 5: I think that that lack of oversight is almost equally

909
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 5: bad as maybe lack of oversight on Elon Musk for example,

910
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 5: there are a ton of government grants and they all

911
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 5: curiously popped up starting around twenty sixteen combating misinformation disinformation.

912
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 5: I'm talking like thousands in foreign countries in I mean

913
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 5: Pakistan and India and the UK like everything everywhere, right,

914
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: And you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, And

915
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 5: if you read the grants, it's literally just like to

916
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 5: empower and journalists and combat misinformation in Uzbekistan. And you're like, well,

917
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,919
Speaker 5: what the heck does that mean? And then I've gone

918
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 5: a step further. If you look on Google Maps, like

919
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: you look at the addresses to the places that these

920
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 5: sizable sums of money are going to. There's shacks on

921
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 5: the side of the road, like they're not real.

922
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 6: It's fun. You should people should go and do it.

923
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 6: It's wild, Okay, it's insane.

924
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 5: And that's where I'm like, I think, if you look,

925
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 5: I think why they're melting down about usai D.

926
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's because these are basically almost spy programs and

927
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: they're trying to they're covering the real identity because but I.

928
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 5: Also think it's how this town has gotten rich. I

929
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 5: think through usai D, I think they've laundered money and

930
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 5: I use that in the truest sense in the name

931
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 5: of democracy through a bunch of NGOs that you're like,

932
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 5: what are you even doing?

933
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 6: And two, I think why.

934
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 5: They're melting down about the USAID stuff. And I do

935
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 5: think it is interesting watching the mainstream media sort of

936
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 5: just what to take the bait on, because I think

937
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 5: that was the lesson that they learned from the Trump

938
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 5: administration the first iteration. They're like, we can't melt down,

939
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 5: we can't become apoplectic over everything. But I think they're

940
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 5: resistance strategy this time around, or what they now are

941
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 5: terming the opposition since they can't impeach him, since they

942
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 5: can't really do anything. I know they were standing on

943
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 5: the steps of USAID saying, you know, shut down the Senate,

944
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 5: and I'm like, all right, Ress's appointments vib I mean no.

945
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 5: But their plan and I think you see it in

946
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 5: the groups that they've been setting up, like, for example,

947
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 5: Democracy Forward, which is the like kind of consortium of

948
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 5: a bunch of resistance type orgs. They've started a group

949
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 5: called Civil Service Strong, which was outlining and coaching civil

950
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 5: servants how to be whistleblowers, how to sue if they

951
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 5: are feeling you know, put upon or whatever. And I

952
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 5: think that the crux, the sort of cornerstone of their

953
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 5: resistance tactics, was going to be whistleblowing and leaking and

954
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 5: doing their kind of typical sabotage from inside of these agencies.

955
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 5: And now that they can't do that, I think they're

956
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 5: panicking right because they're like, how do we go after the.

957
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 6: Trump administration now?

958
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 5: And moreover to that point, maybe.

959
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 6: This is where we get a little more room conspiratorial.

960
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 5: But as someone who has read a lot of the

961
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 5: texts coming out of these resistance type organizations, there's always

962
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 5: this sort of undercurrent of well, maybe we need to

963
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 5: partner with international organizations, we need to like go global,

964
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 5: which they have done. I would argue with a lot

965
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 5: of the censorship stuff. When they couldn't totally do it here,

966
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 5: they outsourced the infringement of the First Amendment to international groups.

967
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 6: I think the UK has been a hot bed for it.

968
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 6: But I think too another.

969
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,959
Speaker 5: Reason kind of a compounding factor as to why they're

970
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 5: so nervous about USAID being shut down is that I

971
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 5: think again, maybe they weren't planning to launder the money.

972
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 5: I'll be a little nice, so I'll be more charitable.

973
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 5: They were just planning to send the money. But I

974
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 5: think they really wanted to kind of bankroll the resistance

975
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 5: internationally and sort of use that as a roundabout way

976
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 5: to come after President Trump because they couldn't really they

977
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 5: can't really do that much. They can call the Senate,

978
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, and worm's great at that,

979
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 5: but they don't really have the ability to push push

980
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 5: back in a meaningful way. That's why they're you know,

981
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 5: groveling on the steps of USA. I d looking rather cringe.

982
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 5: I would have, like Jamie Raskin's gone from what impeaching

983
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 5: President Trump twice and like running circles around US from

984
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 5: a law fair perspective to now groveling outside of usai

985
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 5: D with like a bunch of freaks.

986
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 3: You know.

987
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 5: So I'm like, you know how, I guess times are

988
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 5: tough for Dirograts.

989
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. It does have them in a bind

990
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: because they're trying to figure out how to defend usai D.

991
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: And you know, initially they were defending it as you know,

992
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: foreign aid as important and pointing to like if you

993
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: shut down pep FAR, you shut down this protection for

994
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: spending around infants in Sudan, and people like people are

995
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: going to die and people literally are going to die

996
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: if you do that.

997
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 4: It's a clever insurance policy.

998
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: But then Rubio can owner and say, well we're going

999
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: to keep those programs going. Yeah, And so now you've

1000
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: started to see I think it was Chris Murphy who

1001
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: is like, the reason we're funding USAID in Africa is

1002
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: to counter China and so that we can extract the

1003
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: resources from Africa. I saw that. I was like, Okay,

1004
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: like now we're talking about what's actually happening, Like it's

1005
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: it's out in the open like that is it's always

1006
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: bodery with a foreign aid. I hate foreign aid, so

1007
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: it's so wasteful far and spending, you.

1008
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 4: Said, Usa, he spends money to make sure that we're

1009
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: countering Chinese influence inside of Africa and make sure we

1010
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 4: don't lose minerals.

1011
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: To make sure that we don't lose access to critical

1012
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: mineral supplies and.

1013
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 4: That we're fighting against Hesbula.

1014
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: Like, I hate this idea that the US is some

1015
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: charitable organization that is just so benevolent and wasting people's

1016
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: money by because we're so soft hearted that we're out

1017
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: here helping people know we're like a ruthless empire that

1018
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: is trying to extract resources from Africa, and usaid is

1019
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: the soft power way that we go in and do that.

1020
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: China's got its Belt and Road and this other efforts

1021
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: that it uses to try to get resources. It's a

1022
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: competition for resources. So finally, at least we're talking about

1023
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: it openly and then you can debate it like do

1024
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: we want to use this? And clearly what the MAGA

1025
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: folks are saying is we don't actually believe that it's

1026
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: for American soft power. We think you're going to use it.

1027
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: As your own partisan weapon in this intra civil war fight,

1028
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: which to me, if that helps to bring down the

1029
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: American Empire, good well.

1030
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 4: And I was just gonna say that we have, speaking

1031
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 4: of the American Empire, we have a question from Kevin McGonagall,

1032
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: who says.

1033
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: I was going to ask this one too, I like

1034
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: this one.

1035
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 4: Will there be a right populous pushback for American troops

1036
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 4: being as he puts, a cannon fodder for Israel I

1037
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 4: mean securing Gaza. It's been a whirlwind of last twelve hours, Natalie,

1038
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 4: But as.

1039
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 5: You know, before we were booked to do the show,

1040
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 5: apparently now we are taking over Gotha.

1041
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 4: Seriously. Yeah, So we're taping this within like twelve hours

1042
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 4: of all of the happening, and you're sort of in

1043
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 4: a position hearing from your listeners, who I'm sure probably

1044
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 4: more in the Josh Howley camp of saying, I don't

1045
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 4: know that this is the right use of US resources,

1046
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 4: A similar argument that's made against usaid in fact, So,

1047
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 4: how how are you? How's the war room audience kind

1048
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 4: of grappling with this massive, dramatic new Trump plan through

1049
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 4: the lens of everything you've talked about imperialism, USAID and.

1050
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: All of that.

1051
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 5: Sure, well, I think to sort of can join what

1052
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 5: both of you said. I think the issue first and

1053
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 5: foremost derives from the lack of transparency. And I think

1054
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 5: one way to view what President Trump is trying to

1055
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 5: doing or DOGE or anything. They view it as like, oh,

1056
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 5: they're stealing the contracts and they're doing this, and they're

1057
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 5: shutting it all down, and they, you know, I think

1058
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 5: are maybe a little harsh and they're sort of depiction

1059
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 5: of it. But I think the more maybe euphemistic way

1060
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 5: of describing it is they also just want radical transparency

1061
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 5: for the American people, and I do think that transparency

1062
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 5: maybe is a little concerning if you try to really

1063
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 5: understand what exactly has been going on at these agencies.

1064
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 5: I'm inclined to bring up the final months of the

1065
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 5: Biden regime.

1066
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 6: We caught a regime. I have like a reflexive. I

1067
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 6: can't call them an.

1068
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: Administration as long as we can call it the Trump regime.

1069
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 6: That's cool, sounds better.

1070
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that isn't extremely That moment is extremely think like instructive.

1071
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, there you go, that's the clip.

1072
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 5: But when the American people, when the support was cratering

1073
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 5: for Ukraine aid. There was I think it was October

1074
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 5: or last year, or maybe it's twenty twenty three, but

1075
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 5: there's a whole political story where they had sort of leaked.

1076
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 5: They were like, Okay, the White House knows that Americans

1077
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 5: are kind of like Cagy on supporting Ukraine. So our

1078
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 5: new effort, or our new sort of like propaganda campaign

1079
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 5: to get Americans to support Ukraine aid is going to be.

1080
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 6: The messaging which they were pumping out through local.

1081
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 5: Papers and local media was the idea that Ukraine aid

1082
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 5: is actually good for our industrial base and that it's

1083
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 5: good for our economy, and that it creates American jobs

1084
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 5: and we don't have to.

1085
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: Have that debates there.

1086
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that was such an interesting moment for me

1087
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 5: because I was like, no, no, no, If you want

1088
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 5: the American people to support giving aid to Ukraine, the

1089
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 5: number one thing that you should do would be an

1090
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 5: audit and have a show us that our money is

1091
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 5: a actually making it there, which what Zelenski said just yesterday,

1092
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 5: He's like, I only got seventy seven billion, what about

1093
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 5: the outstanding one hundred and seventy billion or whatever. And

1094
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 5: it was that moment where I was like, oh, they

1095
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 5: were not audit it because they can't because if we

1096
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 5: were to know where that money's actually going, it's not

1097
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 5: good for anyone. And to answer your question, I think, Look,

1098
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 5: I think the Goaza thing is a little absurd. It

1099
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 5: just kind of happened, right, But I also think too

1100
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 5: the way that I've sort of been observing it is

1101
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 5: more just watching if the media takes the bait on it,

1102
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 5: which I think have though I was watching them at

1103
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 5: NBC this morning and they seem a little more upset

1104
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 5: over like the FBI lawsuits, like they're kind of focusing

1105
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 5: on that.

1106
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 6: Most prices Ryan right there.

1107
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 5: You see it as bait, well, because I think their

1108
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 5: whole paradigm is like cover what Trump does, not what

1109
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 5: he says.

1110
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 6: And I think.

1111
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting generally smart probably.

1112
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, But I also think that I personally sort of

1113
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 5: view this kind of bold proclamation, which I would also

1114
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 5: love to know like behind the scenes, if this was

1115
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 5: something that he had talked about with n.

1116
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 6: Yah, because if you look at the like.

1117
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 7: Facial reactions, it seems like Trump just said it, which

1118
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 7: I mean for Trump to be telling in what a

1119
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 7: matter of like twenty four hours, Israel, China, Mexico and

1120
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 7: Canada like, actually, we're the top dog.

1121
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 6: We're gonna choose.

1122
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 5: What's going on here, I think is something we haven't

1123
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 5: seen in a while. But to that point, I think,

1124
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 5: I mean, it's not a cliche or you know, novel take,

1125
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 5: but the thing itself is sometimes not the actual thing itself, right,

1126
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 5: Like it's not actually about gos, it's.

1127
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 6: You know, for lack of better word, it's the art

1128
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 6: of the deal.

1129
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 5: In the same way that the tariffs was it actually

1130
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 5: about putting those tariffs in?

1131
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 6: Who knows?

1132
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 5: It was about extracting concessions. I will say this is sort.

1133
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 6: Of a like.

1134
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 5: A narrative like paradigm shifting idea where it maybe almost

1135
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 5: like brings anything like whatever we want, we don't want that,

1136
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 5: but I don't know.

1137
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 6: I think our audience, obviously, the.

1138
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 5: Israel issue, I always call it a lose lose no

1139
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 5: matter what you say, you're gonna get harassed by everyone.

1140
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 5: But the way that I've always approached it, and I

1141
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 5: think our audience too, is just from the America first perspective.

1142
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 6: I think there's sort of a mere scheimer.

1143
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 5: Esque kind of quality to it, where it's just like,

1144
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 5: are we super invested in it what you know the

1145
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 5: offshore around, Like what exactly is our investment in the region.

1146
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 6: How does it benefit us.

1147
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 5: To either have you know, a more or less terrorist

1148
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 5: state that absolutely hates us and is trying to attack us.

1149
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 5: But it's also not our job to prop up the

1150
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 5: opposition to said state. And I think our audience when

1151
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 5: it's come to anything related to Israel, Palestine, Goza, whatever.

1152
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 6: Is first and foremost.

1153
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 5: We don't want any refugees from Gaza entering the United States.

1154
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,959
Speaker 5: Like that is sort of where I think we really

1155
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 5: toe the line, and I think we will definitely push

1156
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 5: hard on that.

1157
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 6: But I think, you know, if we.

1158
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 5: Were recording this episode tomorrow right like, it'd be a

1159
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 5: different news cycle. And I don't really think that it's

1160
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 5: about taking over Gaza.

1161
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 6: I think it's I hate to use.

1162
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 5: The words four D chess because I'm out one of

1163
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 5: those people.

1164
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 6: But there is an element to it.

1165
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: You described the Israel's issue for you guys as lose lose.

1166
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: I'm curious, like where your audience comes down on the

1167
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: on the question, because from an obvious internal logic perspective,

1168
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: America first and isolationism would include Israel like it would

1169
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: it would it would call into question, are like reflexive

1170
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: on apologetic, endless support for what they're doing. Yet there's

1171
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: so much cross pressure to make an accept in America,

1172
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: first exception to Israel and also apparently South Africa because

1173
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is upset about the law that they're passing

1174
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: in South Africa coincidentally to Israel. So on the one hand,

1175
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious where they are on that, And then severally

1176
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: oftentimes on the on the war room, you'll have people

1177
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: like Frank Gaffney and others who will give this like

1178
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 1: really vulgar history of like Islam and talk about how

1179
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: like actually, you know, they're all polygamists and like warmongers

1180
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: and if you look at the Qur'an, like they're just

1181
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: violent people, and like it's really about the culture. And

1182
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: oftentimes Bannon himself, I haven't heard you on with those

1183
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: types of folks often banned himself. We'll say just as

1184
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: a caveat, we're we're not referring to the law abiding

1185
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: Muslim citizens of the United States, and like so you

1186
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: can sort of see his wheels turning, like that's a

1187
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 1: little bit like aggressive in how it's being phrased there.

1188
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: Yet those types of people keep coming on and making

1189
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: the case. Just last night, one of those guys was

1190
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: on talking about the you know, the history of Gaza

1191
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: and making the case that the Palacidians are just kind

1192
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: of irredeemable, violent or something, so like, how does how

1193
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: do you blend and think about that? Like it that,

1194
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,959
Speaker 1: I guess you don't. Guys don't like the phrase islamophobic strain,

1195
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: but like the fairly vulgar thinking about a billion people

1196
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: or two billion people, how't any Muslims are on the planet?

1197
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: Compared to thinking about America first populism, which says, if

1198
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: you're a citizen of the United States, like you have,

1199
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: you're entitled to equal dignity and respect and it doesn't

1200
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: matter what your race, religion, or anything else is.

1201
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 5: I think it's sort of the steep paradigm of wanting

1202
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 5: allies and not protectorates. And I think that where audience

1203
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 5: sometimes maybe gets a little tripped up or is sort

1204
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 5: of anti age Israel, I think is just because the

1205
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 5: sheer magnitude of the funds that are going to them,

1206
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 5: And I don't think that it's ever really been clearly

1207
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 5: articulated to the American people, like what exactly we're getting

1208
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: in return for that. And I think too, I mean,

1209
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 5: you know, as someone who's covered foreign influence right and

1210
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 5: foreign lobbying, you know, the idea of any foreign country

1211
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 5: having a strong lobbying presence in DC is something.

1212
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 6: That I take a version to. And I think that,

1213
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 6: you know, whether it's APAK or whatever.

1214
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 5: Entity it may be, I think that that just sort

1215
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 5: of hard hard to square.

1216
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 6: Conversely, it's like, well, I also don't.

1217
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 5: Want and I think if you go back to the

1218
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 5: infamous Steve whiteboard pick what was it designating the Muslim

1219
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 5: brother and a terrorist organization.

1220
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: From the White House.

1221
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 5: Yes, he always says that his biggest regret was never

1222
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 5: doing that. And for Steve Bannon, who's had a lot

1223
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 5: of lives and a lot of cool things, for that

1224
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 5: to be as big as regret, I think tells you something.

1225
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 5: And I think the way that our show sort of

1226
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 5: conceives of Islam is probably a little more on the

1227
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 5: not Islam with phobic scale. But I think maybe reject

1228
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 5: the framing then it's a phobia, because I do think

1229
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 5: some of the fears are are rational in the sense

1230
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 5: that I think if you look at well, it's funny,

1231
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 5: I sort of feel like the Chinese Communist Party threat,

1232
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 5: and if even if you look at like the trajectory

1233
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 5: of someone like Frank Gaffney sort of superseded the idea

1234
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 5: that it was the Muslim Brotherhood who was coming to

1235
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 5: overtake the global you know, hegemony of the United States

1236
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 5: with the Caliphate, and then suddenly like the Chinese Communist

1237
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 5: Party became the new threat. And I'm always cagy of

1238
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 5: that kind of stuff because I do think it can

1239
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 5: very quickly turn into like reductive neocon war mongering, right

1240
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 5: where it's like, well, I'm a really bad, squishy Republican senator,

1241
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 5: but I'm really tough on China, right, but.

1242
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 6: I'm really anti it. Yeah, I really think we need to.

1243
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 5: So I'm aware it can become performative very quickly in

1244
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 5: the same way like the transgender bathroom stuff, right, it

1245
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 5: sort of becomes a cultural thing.

1246
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 4: Muslims were, where it's like, oh, it sort of comes

1247
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 4: comes back.

1248
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: It goes to my earlier point that right wing populism

1249
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:59,959
Speaker 1: often needs to because it won't go after the one

1250
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: or said it often needs like, oh, it's the Muslim Brotherhood.

1251
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 5: I also think that that's a function two of right

1252
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 5: wing media in terms of like I think our show

1253
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 5: and it's funny, I'm even sort of struggling, like you played.

1254
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 6: One of my rants.

1255
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 5: I much prefer having something to rant about as opposed

1256
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 5: to something to celebrate about from just a broadcasting perspective,

1257
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 5: and I think we thrive on like having an enemy.

1258
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 5: And I do think sometimes the MSMB secretique of us

1259
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 5: is like we do better in opposition than actually ruling.

1260
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 5: Is sort of an interesting critique if you look at

1261
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 5: it through the lens of right wing media. In other words,

1262
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 5: like we were all united right during the campaign because

1263
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 5: we had a clear and defined enemy and a clear

1264
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 5: and defined goal. But then very soon after you sort

1265
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 5: of started to see the fracturing of the base, the

1266
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 5: atual me stuff happened the sort of like yeah, right,

1267
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 5: it happened very quickly. And that's why in some ways,

1268
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 5: and this may be a hot take, I almost think

1269
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 5: that it would have been better for Republicans. Don't actually,

1270
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 5: but like had Democrats taken the House or something, because

1271
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 5: then we would have had something to really push back

1272
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 5: against as opposed to be infighting, because it'd be like, oh,

1273
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 5: we're all concerned that they're going to impeach president Trump,

1274
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 5: like we're very good. I would maybe push back on

1275
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 5: the frame of a conspiratorial I think, is it conspiratorial?

1276
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 5: Is it coincidental? But just sort of the like linking

1277
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 5: of a bunch of stories. I think it's pattern recognition

1278
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 5: is maybe how I would describe it. And I think

1279
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 5: that now we're sort of like not struggling, but the

1280
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 5: resistance is very weak.

1281
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 6: And if I had to host the show this evening, like.

1282
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 5: I could have, you know, two months ago, done a

1283
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 5: whole rant about every way that in our view, they

1284
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 5: were trying to sort of, you know, fool around with

1285
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 5: election stuff, and they were trying to you know, lie

1286
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 5: or smear President Trump. And now like the best that

1287
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 5: I can do is into the you know, attorney who's

1288
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 5: representing the nine and anonymous FBI agents who in twenty

1289
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 5: twenty two is tweeting up the storm.

1290
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 6: About how quote all of MAGA needs to be fired

1291
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 6: from the United States government.

1292
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 5: So it's it's just a shift, and I'm just like

1293
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 5: I want to like, I'm like, give me a chance

1294
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 5: to rant well.

1295
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 4: And so this brings me at least my last question,

1296
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,439
Speaker 4: because I could keep doing this forever. This is from

1297
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 4: M and n H This is a viewer who says

1298
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 4: what ethical consideration should be top of mind for war

1299
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 4: Room and other new media outlets as they report on

1300
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 4: the White House with their newfound access. We talked about

1301
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 4: this a little bit earlier and how you feel like

1302
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 4: from the America first perspective, your climb balls and strikes. So,

1303
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 4: as somebody who is generally supportive of MAGA in there

1304
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 4: pressing the White House Press secretary, you have an opportunity

1305
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 4: to do it. How are you thinking about that? To

1306
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 4: the point that M and N is making, Is this

1307
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: like a is it a priority to push the White House?

1308
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 4: Is it a priority to use your time in a

1309
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,439
Speaker 4: way that advances maybe concerns? How are you get about

1310
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 4: this as somebody who's a journalist but also it's sort

1311
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 4: of in the camp of the White House.

1312
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 5: Well, I would say my first and foremost ethical consideration

1313
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 5: is what I wear.

1314
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 6: No, the skirts are not going anywhere, you know.

1315
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 5: It was funny they were mad at me for wearing sneakers,

1316
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 5: which I was like everyone does when they're not on camera,

1317
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 5: and I was like, look, I was actually go friendly

1318
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 5: and I walked to the White House from Capitol Hill,

1319
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 5: so I was like, I love walking.

1320
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 6: It's my favorite thing to do.

1321
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 5: So I was like, I was trying to reduce my

1322
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 5: carbon footprint, and then I got ratioed for it, but

1323
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 5: not ratioed. We ratioed the Daily Mail and they had

1324
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 5: to take the journalist's name.

1325
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 6: Off the story. It's another war room wind, the power

1326
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 6: of the war of audience.

1327
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 5: But no, I think that's an interesting question, and I

1328
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 5: think that it's something that I've kind of internally struggled with.

1329
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 6: I've always said, despite my you know.

1330
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 5: Rather bombastic rhetoric like I have, I spent a lot

1331
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 5: of my free time actually trying to deduce how to

1332
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 5: be a responsible steward of this platform that I have

1333
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 5: not stumbled into. But just you know, in twenty three,

1334
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 5: put yourself in my shoes. You're speaking to hundreds of

1335
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 5: thousands of millions of people, the most powerful politically. Like

1336
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 5: it's a lot to conceive of and not sound cliche,

1337
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 5: but I've always just sort of let the truth guide me.

1338
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 5: That's why I've always stuck to sort of like primary

1339
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 5: source based reporting also made writing copy easier because I

1340
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 5: could just sort of copy and paste from one of

1341
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 5: the documents that the grants were saying.

1342
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 6: But I also think.

1343
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 5: Too, like it's an interesting question because we are forthright

1344
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 5: and our support for President Trump, and I'm aware that

1345
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 5: maybe that's hard.

1346
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 6: To square with the idea of like being a journalist, but.

1347
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 5: I'm sorry every time I walk in that press briefing

1348
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 5: room and everyone's sitting there, who has their you know,

1349
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,919
Speaker 5: superior superiority complex and like, you know, I guess really

1350
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 5: chip on their shoulder, but like the idea that like

1351
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 5: we're a clownish operation by being there, it's like, you

1352
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 5: guys are probably more partisan.

1353
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 6: Than we are.

1354
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 5: And that's sort of what I find to be the

1355
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 5: most cognitively dissonant or just gaslighting experience of that press

1356
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 5: briefing room, where I'm like, I have to sit here

1357
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 5: and pretend like what you guys are doing is telling

1358
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 5: the truth. Like they act so professional and so serious,

1359
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 5: and I'm like, you're a bunch of liars and you're

1360
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 5: advancing a certain talking point or certain narrative. So I

1361
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 5: just to keep our audience kind of ahead of the

1362
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 5: curve because I don't want to be a Trump cheerleader

1363
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 5: for four years. I don't really find any intellectual merit

1364
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 5: in doing that either. If you can tell like I

1365
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 5: love digging into documents. I don't like standing there and

1366
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 5: being like.

1367
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, we took over Gassa and how I've

1368
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 6: sort of come to.

1369
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 5: Really, I think square that is focusing on the resistance

1370
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 5: because it gives me something.

1371
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 6: To latch onto because I guess maybe I need.

1372
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 5: An enemy or something to cover, So I really want

1373
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 5: to focus on that angle. But I also think too,

1374
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 5: like I want to cover the media, Like there's enough

1375
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 5: people who are gonna be trying to ask questions.

1376
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 6: I you know.

1377
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 5: Learned the hard way, like this is where I stand,

1378
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 5: this is where I sit. I'm like, okay, sir, I'm

1379
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 5: not trying to come for your see, I'm new, like

1380
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 5: I got it. And I think covering the media is

1381
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 5: more interesting. And sure it's funny the people in the

1382
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 5: briefing room and the masks and when someone asks the question,

1383
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 5: they're like rolling their eyes because it's, you know, a

1384
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 5: different outlet than what.

1385
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 6: They're used to.

1386
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 5: But I think, to wrap up my answer, what we

1387
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 5: were talking about in terms of the resistance stuff like

1388
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 5: civil society and the media is the crux is the

1389
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 5: cornerstone of their ability to push back on President Trump.

1390
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 6: Right now, it's all they have, and being in that

1391
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 6: press briefing room therefore, sure it gives.

1392
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 5: Me access to the White House, the President, but it

1393
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 5: also gives me access to sort of ground zero of

1394
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 5: the resistance, and that is what I want to cover

1395
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 5: and sort of use that as like primary sourt of

1396
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 5: supporting to supplement the reporting that I've been doing kind

1397
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 5: of independently on tracking the resistance stuff.

1398
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 6: So that's how I.

1399
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 5: View it, which is, you know, maybe not the traditional

1400
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 5: ethics space journal but I think we live in a

1401
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 5: post journalism ethics world and I think I'm the first

1402
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 5: to admit it. They'll if they want to admit otherwise

1403
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 5: I would just point them to their viewership.

1404
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 1: I mean to support your point. And this probably happened

1405
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: when you were in elementary school back when Time magazine

1406
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: was a big deal in Washington. Time Magazine's White House

1407
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: correspondent transition to become Obama's spokesperson. So it went and

1408
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: went from the seat to the podium.

1409
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 6: So, Carolyn Love, it's.

1410
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: Been on war room a ton, which now I would

1411
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: humbly suggest that the resistance is boring and that you

1412
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 1: should take your talents and focus them on Musk corporate America.

1413
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: Trying to co opt the Mega movement and the intelligence community.

1414
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: That element of the residence I think is very interesting,

1415
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: and that brings me to this very interesting question that

1416
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm curious about too. Gbr You says, is Donald Trump

1417
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: aware of the statements Steve Bannon has been making about

1418
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Andresen and their intellectual guru,

1419
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: Curtis Yarvin, has war Room Bannon, you or any other

1420
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: MAGA affiliated person or organization brought these concerns about techno

1421
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 1: feudalism to President Trump? Is it? Is it breaking through?

1422
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 5: I think that person asse on that would be Steve, right.

1423
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 5: I don't want to speak about their conversations, but I mean,

1424
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 5: I don't even think it's just like a you know,

1425
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 5: Steve president Trump conversation.

1426
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 6: I think that you can't like turn on a TV

1427
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:38,480
Speaker 6: or the media.

1428
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 5: Without being inundated with like this is the thing itself, right,

1429
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,799
Speaker 5: this is the the story right now, you know, Stephen

1430
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 5: president Trump talk. Obviously he's not shy about that. But

1431
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 5: you know, Elot obviously has a seat at the table too.

1432
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 5: But I do think, I mean also to the sheer

1433
01:08:57,640 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 5: power of our audience, Like I said, that's a very

1434
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 5: grassroots force, so I don't think they're going to want

1435
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 5: to alienate.

1436
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 6: Us.

1437
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 5: But like I said, it's all about having a seat

1438
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 5: at the table and we can debate it out and

1439
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 5: when you have full transparency, like we will win. I

1440
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 5: have full faith in Stephen K. Bannon and myself and

1441
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 5: our kind of approach to the issue. I mean, you

1442
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 5: see Mark Zuckerberg and all these people are getting like

1443
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 5: totally ratio and controlled. No one believes their conversion. So

1444
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 5: I think I think it's just sort of a time

1445
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 5: will tell thing, like you know, and maybe maybe.

1446
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: This could be the last one because there's a ton

1447
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: of interest from our lefty audience.

1448
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:36,640
Speaker 6: Here, and I was scared they were going to be

1449
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 6: mean to me.

1450
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: Well they did want they are a bunch of them

1451
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: said they wanted to ask you about the correspondence typo,

1452
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: which I don't know what that means, do you know?

1453
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 5: I know this whole interview, I'm like, I'm so smart,

1454
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 5: I'm so good at my job. I'm twenty three and

1455
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 5: like the youngest white OSK correspondent ever, I'm so intelligent.

1456
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:54,719
Speaker 6: No.

1457
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 5: When I when I tweeted out the now infamous picture,

1458
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 5: I spol a co respondent with one R. And it

1459
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 5: was because it was I was getting ready to like

1460
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 5: go on air, and you know, you don't understand love

1461
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 5: Real America's voice, but I put them in the category

1462
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 5: like tech startup. So it's very like ratchet and and.

1463
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 6: I'm like getting pulled in this direction. I have like

1464
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 6: my air pods in my phone's not connecting.

1465
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 5: Like every journalist that like we've ever attacked, I think

1466
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 5: Steve the second before they came to me, they were like,

1467
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 5: we need to send these people to prison, like and

1468
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 5: I'm like, well it see anything. You just called like

1469
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 5: three of the people that I just saw walk by

1470
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 5: like that they should go to jail. So I'm standing

1471
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 5: there so like and I wanted to tweet out the

1472
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 5: picture because I was like, this is like a cool picture.

1473
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, we'll make.

1474
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 5: Some people jealous, right, And so I know that when

1475
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 5: I had typed out correspondent, which is sort of like

1476
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 5: a difficult word spell, I was like the first rate, Okay,

1477
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 5: it's still complicated. I'm I was very honest, and I

1478
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 5: just got you know, like when you just want to

1479
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 5: use autocorrect, so you just kind of like get the

1480
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 5: gist of the word out there and then you let.

1481
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 4: It trust the machine. Yeah.

1482
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 6: So I guess for.

1483
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 5: Some reason, autocorrect thinks that I am like, well, you know,

1484
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 5: correspondent with one R means like the fair partner a divorce.

1485
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 5: I did not know.

1486
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 6: I'm not.

1487
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 4: Wow, did you learn something you ever?

1488
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: Know?

1489
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 6: But that one super viral, So.

1490
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 7: I kind of know, though I guess I guess I'm

1491
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 7: docsing myself.

1492
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 6: No I'm not.

1493
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 5: But yeah, so that was that was kind of annoying,

1494
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,799
Speaker 5: and then they all piled in foot I will defend

1495
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 5: my honor and as a true opposition researcher. The lady

1496
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 5: who first quote tweeted me that led to like, it's

1497
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 5: like forty or fifty million impressions. I was like, oh

1498
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 5: my gosh, this is so embarrassing. She spelled correspondent wrong too.

1499
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 5: I went through Rachel Bitakoffer. I went through her Twitter,

1500
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 5: and twice in February, it was February seventh and February

1501
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 5: eighth of twenty nineteen.

1502
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 6: She was tweeting about.

1503
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 5: The Virginia Correspondence Association. They were having their like big

1504
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 5: annual dinner, and she spelled it with one R, and she.

1505
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 6: Did it twice. So that's reflective.

1506
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 5: Of your intelligence, Buston, I am smarter than her.

1507
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: Aside from that, there does seem to be a lot

1508
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: of lefty hope that your faction is going to beat

1509
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: the techno feudalist authoritarian faction. And one of these this

1510
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 1: all make this the last one is related to I

1511
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: think asking you to look at some of the left

1512
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 1: wing stuff that was done and evaluated in a fair way.

1513
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: So they say, what are your thoughts on the Inflation

1514
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: Reduction Act which promotes re shoring American jobs combined with

1515
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: imposing tariffs on imports to boost the US energy manufacturing sector,

1516
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: which is an accurate description of the IRA.

1517
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 5: Well, I will say I think they did an absolutely

1518
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 5: horrific job on messaging on some of their their winds

1519
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:48,879
Speaker 5: like I can, like I said, we call balls and striking,

1520
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 5: But from a more I think meta kind of bird's

1521
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 5: eye view perspective, you can't really tell me they did

1522
01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 5: a good job with reducing inflation. And I think if

1523
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 5: you look at their economic track record, whether it's the

1524
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 5: revisions of the jobs reports, I think what was like

1525
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 5: twelve out of thirteen times downward or the fact that

1526
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 5: so many of the new jobs that they created. I

1527
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 5: think it was at the end of it, like a

1528
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 5: net loss for Americans, and the net gain was happening

1529
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:18,679
Speaker 5: among non citizens or like immigrant workers. So I always find,

1530
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 5: and I'm the first to admit it, that like economic

1531
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 5: data really confusing and overwhelming because there's so many layers

1532
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 5: to it, and they're like, well, consumer confidence or the

1533
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 5: price in decks is really high, and I'm like, well,

1534
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,679
Speaker 5: what is that based on Americans lived experience?

1535
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:31,959
Speaker 6: Is absolutely horrific.

1536
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 5: So I don't I mean, I think if they want

1537
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 5: to hang on to what they did with the economy

1538
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 5: as being something really strong, I would highly.

1539
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 6: Advise against that.

1540
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 5: I also think too, it's a broader I think issue

1541
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 5: in terms of I don't think any president who oversaw

1542
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,440
Speaker 5: an invasion of fifteen million illegal aliens the most oppressive

1543
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 5: force on American workers' wages, you can't say that that

1544
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 5: was good for reducing inflation helping American workers.

1545
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: Separate it from Biden and partisans the idea of the

1546
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act, where you are subsidizing American jobs and

1547
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: transition to a clean energy economy which China's killing us

1548
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 1: in like in general directionally, if you separate it from Democrats.

1549
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: Is that something that fits into abandoned style.

1550
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 5: I think they're supporting American manufacturing base. Of course, I

1551
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 5: think President Trump kind of went a different way of

1552
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 5: trying to do that, more like tariff get kind of

1553
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,120
Speaker 5: that sort of approach. But yeah, I think Peter Navarro,

1554
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 5: who obviously helped co host the show while he was

1555
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 5: in prison as close friends with all of us, we

1556
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 5: were very close with him, is very supportive of that too.

1557
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 6: We're very for restoring. I mean, if it were.

1558
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 5: Up to Steve, we would like kick out all Chinese

1559
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,599
Speaker 5: companies and maybe the big tech ones too while we're

1560
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 5: at it.

1561
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: But it did say break up the big tech companies. Yeah,

1562
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: but he said they should have left Lean a conon place.

1563
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 5: But I just think it's sort of performative and not

1564
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 5: just a Democrat thing. Not to skirt your question, but

1565
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 5: like the idea that they're actually genuinely trying to reshore

1566
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 5: manufacturing jobs, there's.

1567
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 6: Still that sort you know what I mean, Like it's it.

1568
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 5: I don't think it had the impact that they intended,

1569
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 5: not because the legislation was bad or ideologically unprincipled. But

1570
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:21,480
Speaker 5: this city is just and big business, big donors, corporate interests.

1571
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,640
Speaker 5: They want to outsource and that's the fundamental issue, Like

1572
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 5: they just hate American workers, So I think you have

1573
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,440
Speaker 5: to negotiate with them much more intensely.

1574
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 6: Like carrot stick. I think tariffs are more of the stick.

1575
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 5: I think stuff like that is a little more carrot based,

1576
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 5: and they're not going to take the carrot like you.

1577
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: You have to smash them. Yeah, smash the rich.

1578
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 4: Fascinating right, Yeah, thank you for growing in us.

1579
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I'm so glad I wore that.

1580
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 6: That's scared otherwise I don't know.

1581
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 4: No, I mean, listen, like the media infiltration of the

1582
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:55,840
Speaker 4: White House PRESSU room is long overdue, like new media

1583
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 4: infiltration or.

1584
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: The White House, I'll see you in there.

1585
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. But thank you so much for having

1586
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 4: Thanks for thanks for being on taking the time.

1587
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 6: We appreciate it. Thank you guys. Awesome.

1588
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 4: Well, we'll be back with more counterpoints next week, so

1589
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 4: stay tuned for that. Appreciate it season