1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That is Mr Max Williams. They 4 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: called me ben bolland no, I can't believe we've done 5 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: it again. We accidentally made an awesome two parter or 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: you know we we did it. We did it, and 7 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: we're not gonna apologize for it either. So just here 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: here's your part to enjoy it or don't see if 9 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: we care, No, we actually really do care. Please enjoy it. 10 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: Here's part two of the story of the weird European 11 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: guy that trained the meadicterranean to make a super continent. 12 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about how how how does 13 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: one manage this right? So it's it's put into place, 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: everything goes off without a hitch, everything's built, you know, 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: with the cooperation of all parties. Who's in charge? If 16 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: if Europe kind of led the project and it's one 17 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: of one of their guys that's sort of at the helm, 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: how does this thing get staffed? And then what kind 19 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: of governing body has to be created to keep it humming? Right? 20 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: Because this would require a giant hydroelectric power plant that 21 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: would be situated in the Gibraltar Dam that would supply 22 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: power uh for Europe and Africa. The idea was that 23 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: it would be run by an independent body who would 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: have the power to switch off the energy supply to 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: any individual country uh that created a threat to peace. 26 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: How about that? I mean, this really is some Star 27 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: Trek type, Max, It wasn't there a period and Star 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Treker a season or or one of the iterations where 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: like they don't even have currency because they're also interconnected 30 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: and like that's sort of the Federation's job is to 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: keep the rogue you know, states or whatever, from like 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: screwing up this intergalactic piece that is a common misnumber. 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: So the Federation does not have currency. No one works 34 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: for money, but like something like the Frengy Alliance, they 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: use gold Press latinum as their currency. I just tricked 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: you and just showing everybody what a nerd you are, bro, 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: and I'm proud of how this currency. Watch a great 38 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: episode of d S nine last night. Yeah, well, I 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: think other people might not know Max. Well, they need 40 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: to do their research. Then, okay, what do you think 41 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: about the best character of all time? But Max, though, seriously, 42 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: like I mean, do you see connections here between the 43 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: kind of idyllic utopian world of Star Trek and what 44 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: this guy is trying to achieve. I mean, the more 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm reading into this, the less fascist it seems like. 46 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: It actually seems pretty even handed and if every and 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: played along could have some positive outcomes. Yeah, I mean, 48 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: it definitely does have that kind of utopian thing, but 49 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: it's really in that guy's it's like the utopian four 50 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: a very select amount of people, and it's really it's 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: closer to Star Trek as in it's very much in 52 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: sci fi with this work. I mean, like just the 53 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: impact of like what you would do to this to like, 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, the environment is terrible, and do you want 55 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: to put one more fun Star Trek little note in 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: here because people forget this, but Star Trek being very 57 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: much a nineteen six to show the origin stories of 58 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the Federation comes from World War Three, which is the 59 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: nuclear war that kills off almost all mankind. So it 60 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: comes kind of from that same fear base we're all 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: going to like mutually assured like annihilation that like this 62 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: plan kind of has well because that's what this guy's 63 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: kind of thinking. It's like if we go to war again, 64 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: We're probably all just gonna die. Yeah, the old idea 65 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: of like World War two spot with nuclear weapons, world 66 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: War three will be fought with sticks and stones. Yeah, 67 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a real fear. And he wanted to 68 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: He wanted to get into the hearts and minds of people, 69 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: so he was trying. He's like one of those really 70 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: thirsty investigative journalists or pundits or ted talkers I call them. 71 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: If he wants time on radio programs. He wants to 72 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: give talks. He even has an atlant Tropa symphony commissioned. 73 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: There's Atlan Tropa poetry. He was hoping that if he 74 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: gets enough popular support, and he gets enough of the 75 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: Hoi poloy talking about this, then the politicians will follow suit. 76 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: But this did seem really yeah, well, utopian in the 77 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: not good sense of the word, like utopian itself means 78 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: something that is optimistic but likely unachievable, and this in 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: this sense. One thing that one thing that really stood 80 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: out to me weren't doing research about this is that 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: it fundamentally alters the social hierarchy and the the order 82 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: of power. So now you can be you can be 83 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: descended from millennia long line of rulers, but the real 84 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: power is going to be whomever it is at the 85 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: top that can turn the grid on or off. So 86 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: it's like imagine like the president of the US has 87 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: to ultimately pay obesience to what we hear we have 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: something called Georgia power, but to have to pay obesience 89 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: to like Federated Pan American power, and they don't get 90 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: to make the calls anymore. So that's that if anything, 91 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: seemed like the the most difficult part of the equation, 92 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: like they were like, sure you could build a giant 93 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: damn but getting people to agree with each other, oh, no, 94 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: man know, And there's there was a lot of like 95 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: require that was absolutely like a deal breaker for this 96 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: whole project is the idea that they could get people 97 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: out of the very least like strong arm them into 98 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: agreeing because it would require an investment from um, you know, 99 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: the participating nations that would have been so hefty, right 100 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: that it would have left them without enough funds or 101 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, human capital to actually participate in an a 102 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: war and in the first place, right, So there was 103 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: all of these very like high minded ideological kind of 104 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: things built into this this whole project. And when you're 105 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: talking about like the sort of fine line between a 106 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: utopia and a dystopia, or like what is a utopia 107 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: for some is a dystopia for others at the bottom, 108 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: it reminds me of what I think is one of 109 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: the greatest reboots, sequels, whatever you want to call it, 110 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: of all time, Max mad Max Fury Road, where you 111 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: have this warlord immorton Joe, who essentially controls the water 112 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: supply and is able to kind of keep all of 113 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: these you know, poorer people just at is back and 114 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: call and kind of like, you know, worshiping at his 115 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: feet literally like a god because he gives them a 116 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: drop of water every now and then, and like the 117 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: suptances are so bad. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Um. And this, 118 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, is the kind of thing that on paper 119 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: maybe seems, oh it's such a great idea. I don't know, 120 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: I've been like praising parts of it in theory, but 121 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing where like humans are inherently 122 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: corrupt and corruptible. Uh. And I think if there was 123 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: a person with their hand on the button or the switch, uh, 124 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: and they had what would seem like some eugenics kind 125 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: of ideas like it would appear Sorgel has or that's 126 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: sort of the way he's thinking of African people, for example, 127 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: could be a very dangerous equation. The residents of Portugal 128 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: will cease all political protests and dissent if they want 129 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: to survive the window. Exactly like that kind of Portugal 130 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: is a terrible example. Norway would be a better example. 131 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: Portugal's got pretty nice weather, but exactly, Yeah, I have 132 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: a friend who just moved to Portugal and I can't 133 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: wait to go visit. But yeah, yeah, we should go. 134 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: We should go and do a live show. Right to us? 135 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: Tell us where we should do a live show. When 136 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: we ask ourselves whether this plan is really feasible, is 137 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: where we run into something interesting, because nothing in history 138 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: occurs in a vacuum. As we so often say, this 139 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: guy wasn't the only guy trying to change the world 140 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: through the power of damns. From n three to nineteen 141 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: thirty two, engineers in the Netherlands actually built a damn 142 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: between a place called the zuidr siurd she apologies and 143 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: the North Sea. And this the Netherlands is awesome at 144 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: reclaiming land. So he saw circles, saw people successfully reclaiming 145 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: land from the ocean, and hele that despite the massive size, 146 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: the massive scale of this project, it would be feasible. 147 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: He probably thought it was gonna be easier than it was, 148 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: just because you know, in the brainstorming process, anything is possible. 149 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: But he also he would always point out the Netherlands example, 150 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: and he's like, look, these folks are using dams and 151 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: engineering and the power of technology to create homes, you know, 152 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: and they created the province of Flevolence, which is now 153 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: home to four hundred thousand people. So on some scale 154 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: this works, there is validity to it. The question is 155 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: can you do it with you know, the Mediterranean Sea? 156 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: Can you? Indeed, uh, Sorcill certainly believed you could. In fact, 157 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: he thought it was gonna be a snap. Um. He 158 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: very much was high on his own supply of engineering 159 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: prow ass because he had modeled it after you know, 160 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: some of the projects we just talked about that we're 161 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: already underway on a much much much smaller scale. Damning 162 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, on the other hand, was going to be 163 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: a much more tricky concern, I think, because the waters 164 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: come in from these two major arteries, the Atlantic coming 165 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: in from the Straight at Gibraltar in the west and 166 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: the Black Sea coming in from the Dardanells on the east. 167 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: Like we said, so he thought that just by like 168 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: cutting off the flow of these two straits, the Mediterranean 169 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: would easily reduce its sea level. So he decided to 170 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: give it a go. He was completely convinced that this 171 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: would work in the same way that you know, smaller 172 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: damning operations had worked. So we have to think though, 173 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we today when we think of 174 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: like really really impressive feats of engineering and concerning dams, 175 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: we think of things like China's three gorgeous dams or 176 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: the Hoover Dam for example. Um, these are just absolutely 177 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: megalithic structures that are you know, sites to behold under themselves. 178 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: He didn't have any contemporary analogs to what he was doing. 179 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: This would have been a very first of its kind. 180 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: One thing, however, that Sorcal did not consider, was the 181 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: impact on the environment. Like Max was talking about, the 182 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: increased salinity of the water that would have remained in 183 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean Sea could have in fact killed off a 184 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: ton of the plant and animal life and the patterns 185 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: of rain because such a massive body of water lowering 186 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: it that much could have actually affected precipitation patterns and 187 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: it could have potentially left um, you know, folks in 188 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: the wake of the giant damn at Gibraltar, UM very 189 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: very exposed to things like tsunamis or earthquakes or you know, 190 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: terrorist attacks, something we would have thought of today. UM 191 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: highly recommend a great article on big think dot com 192 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: that kind of goes through some of the what ifs 193 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: of this whole scenario by the very talented Frank Jacobs. 194 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: So we talked about the public, how did how did 195 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: the like in Germany field? They loved it. They were 196 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: all about this. He was a media darling. He even 197 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: founded the atlant Tropa Institute to promote this utopian idea. 198 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: But you're saying, Ben, I just googled. I just googled. 199 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: The Mediterranean still a thing. There's no Atlan Tropa. You're right. 200 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: At Lan Tropa never took off because he did not 201 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: get the support of one big demographic in Germany at 202 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: the time, which unfortunately was the Nazi Party. They wanted 203 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: to expand, for sure, that was one of their things, 204 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: but they wanted to expand more eastward than south, and 205 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: once they seized power in Germany. Sorgel did try to 206 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: pitch the idea to him, but they said, now, we're 207 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: not really interested in building dams. We want to conquer 208 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: the Leban tromp uh the old fashioned way. We want 209 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: to invade places. We want to take over these neighboring countries. 210 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: And then, oddly enough I didn't know this, but for 211 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: a time after World War Two, for like a very 212 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: brief time, the European Allied powers were like, I don't know, 213 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: Sorgel pitch it to us, how how do we drain 214 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean? And you know we're styling here a bit, folks, 215 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: But imagine like part way through his pitch, people start, 216 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, looking at each other's sidelong and they're like, wow, I, 217 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: um no, this is crazy. We can't we can't do this. Uh. 218 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: And we've got to rebuild regular Europe before we make 219 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: at land tropa. And that's you know, there's a valid 220 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: criticism of the plan. But then something else happens. Nuclear 221 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: power comes into the fray. This is pre Chernobyl. So 222 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people when they're thinking of peaceful nuclear power, 223 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: they're thinking of it as a superior solution to hydro electricity. 224 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: Sorgel doesn't give up. He defends these ideas all the 225 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: way to his deathbed, well not really his deathbed, all 226 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: the way to the street, all the way to his 227 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: last bicycle ride when he is hit fatally by a 228 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: car in nineteen fifty two while on the way to 229 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: hold a speech on you guessed it, the Atlanta Tropa Project, 230 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: and of just a few years after his death in 231 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty the institute, the atlant Tropa Institute officially was closed, 232 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: gone but not forgotten. I think the legacy is there, right, No, right, Max, 233 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: there's a We've got an epilogue here, there's an epilogue. Yeah, 234 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: for sure. Um definitely lives on in UH. You know 235 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: some other creative minds and imaginations. For example, Philip K. Dick, 236 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: the the author of The Man in the High Castle, 237 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: creates a world where the Nazis or the access Powers 238 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: rather one World War two UH, and the US gets 239 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: cut up into three different regions, with the Nazi kind 240 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: of puppet government in the east and then an area 241 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: under Japanese occupation in the west, and a neutral buffer 242 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: zone between the two. And of course that's the television 243 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: show version, which is loosely based on the book by 244 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: Philip K. Dick published in nineteen sixty two, and in 245 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Philip K. Dick's novel, the Acxis Powers actually drained the 246 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: Mediterranean in order to create new tracts of farmland, which 247 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: is another big part all the land that it would 248 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: free up if you lower the water level of the Mediterranean. 249 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: And of course this book is widely considered to be 250 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: a commentary on fascism. Uh and um, I think we 251 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: see how the idea of a utopia, when the intention 252 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: is to kind of like other certain parts of the world, 253 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: you know, canon in and of itself, be a form 254 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: of fascism. Yeah, it's weird because science fiction authors in 255 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: general for a long time love bringing this concept up. 256 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: It's one of those just fantastic what if alternative history stories. 257 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: Soviet sci fi writer Grigory Grebnev also speculated on another 258 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: future where it wasn't the Axis Powers that built the 259 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Damn but the Socialist revolution. And in his story, there's 260 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: a small band of Nazi terrorists who are hiding out 261 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: in the North Pole and they they want to launch 262 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: an attack on this damn system because it's a glorious 263 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: achievement of the revolution. To learn more about that, check 264 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: out an article by our friends at Atlas Obscura. I 265 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: love it, you guys, if you're listening, you always kill 266 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: it with the titles the Bunker's real life plan to 267 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: drain the Mediterranean, emerge Africa in Europe by tune lambricks. 268 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: And then, of course you know we mentioned who mentioned 269 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: the star Trek the motion picture analog here with Admiral Kirk. 270 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: I think by that point standing on a huge dam 271 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: near gibral r and the damn blocks the Atlantic Ocean 272 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: from the Mediterranean. So Roddenberry was definitely aware of this. 273 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: We see it in multiple other works of sci fi. 274 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: But these days, in real terms, you're probably only gonna 275 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: see ideas about the atlant Tropa project in museums. You 276 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: might see it in German high schools actually, where it's 277 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: used as a question on a physics exam. The question 278 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: is something like it requires you to calculate the lowering 279 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: of the water level in the Mediterranean. And the real 280 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: screwy part of this that question, when you're taking this 281 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: exam is the question mentions the project as if it 282 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: is actually going to happen, and that you, the kid 283 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: taking the test, can help the Atlantropa project by solving 284 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: the math problem. It's really weird, but it's such a 285 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: fascinating story, even if it's not feasible. I do at 286 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: the very heart of it, you know, I'm trying to 287 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: be more optimistic these days, guys. I do like the 288 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: idea that science can unify people in a way that 289 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: politics could not, and maybe save us as a species 290 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: from these corners we seem to continually paint ourselves in. Oh, 291 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: I love it. I love all the choices you've made here, 292 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: max Um. This is a story though that I think 293 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: there's an interesting job of combining kind of like ideology 294 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: and science and um politics kind of all into one 295 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: crazy scheme that was maybe a little bit beyond the 296 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: powers of all of those things to actually accomplish, right 297 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: because the science that I mean, you know, could you 298 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: do this? You know? I mean, why have we not 299 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: done this yet? If it was such a great idea. 300 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: I think we've talked about some of the the drawbacks 301 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: for sure, in terms of like how it could affect 302 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: the salinity of the water and the floria and fun 303 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: on all that. But you know, it's interesting. I always wonder, like, 304 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: why do we not use more hydro electric power. And 305 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: I think it's probably largely because of reasons like what 306 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, because I think to dates or 307 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: at least at this point in history, only around sev 308 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: of the world's power comes from hydro electricity. And you know, 309 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: there are hard geographical limits to you know, just the 310 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: where you can build a dam, right, and it's kind 311 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: of like geothermal energy in that respect. But there's something 312 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: else they didn't think about, which is the Mediterranean ce 313 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: could disappear in the future. To paraphrase Dennis Reynolds, the 314 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: continental drift. You didn't think about the drift, you bitch. Sorry, 315 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: gott to account for the drift. You've got to account 316 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: for the drift. Continental drift is a real thing. This 317 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: is a living, active planet. So we don't know kind 318 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: of long tail consequences might occur when we have fundamentally 319 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: altered the shape of the continents this way, because those 320 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: tectonic plates are still doing their thing. And and I 321 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: think Sorgal didn't really deeply consider what what the results 322 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of this vast plan would be. Everybody, I think is 323 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: familiar with the idea of continental drift and tectonic plates. 324 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: That's the reason why the continents today are located in 325 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: the places they're located. As you're hearing today's show, the 326 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: African continent and the European continent are already very slowly 327 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: creeping toward each other across the Mediterranean, and eventually they're 328 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: going to collide. Eventually they are going to do Sorgel's 329 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: work for him, creating a men get continent called your Africa. 330 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: And when these two continents meet, most geologists will tell 331 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: you that the Mediterranean is gonna close up and it's 332 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: gonna become mountainous because the land is hitting itself. You know, 333 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: I'm this is ridiculous. We're in an audio podcast. I 334 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: don't know why. I'm like illustrating this to you guys 335 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: with my hands, but that's like my hands are making 336 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: a mountain. Ah. Nothing like a good visual aid and 337 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: a podcast, especially when you get meta with it to 338 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: describe it verbally. But let's hear a little bit from 339 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: another architect, another very well regarded architect named Eric Mendelssohn, 340 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: who gives a kind of modern account of why this 341 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: was surprise, surprise, potentially a good idea. And before we 342 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: get that, also just want to note that there were 343 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: quite a few folks to believe this was a good idea, 344 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: including the makers of a nineteen fifty film entitled at 345 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: the New Continent, Land of the Future. I love those 346 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: epcut vibes, oh totally. And there are other architects who 347 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: were fanboys, like again Eric Mendelssohn and a guy named 348 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: Peter Barons Uh. Mendelssohn was a German Jewish architect who 349 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: had to flee Germany in nineteen thirty three. Uh in 350 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, a couple of months before he immigrated, 351 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: Mendelsson actually supported the Atlantropa plan in a manifesto type 352 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: fiery speech that he gave in Zurich. He believed that 353 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: atlant Tropa was a chance for the future and it 354 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: offered some hope to kind of dig the country out 355 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: of this slump, the social crisis that Europe was in 356 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: the midst of. That kind of was already there. The 357 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: groundwork had been laid, but World War One had absolutely 358 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: blown up completely. Everything from the politics of the time 359 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: to the economics, to the architecture, all of these things 360 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: he believed were tied together and that this was going 361 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: to create a what he referred to as world restructuring 362 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: movement that was driven by something that he also revered 363 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: highly and thought was the only chance of saving the 364 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: soul I guess even of Europe, which was technology. Um 365 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 1: and Mendelssohn had this to say. The upcoming world will 366 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: allow the nations their characteristics, but unites them into a 367 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: comprehensive community. Because the problems of the new world affect 368 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: all people as one, we cannot retreat. The speed of 369 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: traffic is crowded, the nations close together, forces them into 370 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: larger units. In order to avoid getting crushed, we must 371 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: achieve a state of methodical exchange of food and capabilities 372 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: of production and ingenuity. From this great supernational tasks are 373 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: needed that create a new space, new territory, new workspace. 374 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: The Canal de do Ma comes to mind, connecting Marseilles 375 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: and Bordeaux, the Mediterranean and the English Channel. The pan 376 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: Ropa project, which wants to recover Europe's actual fruit country. 377 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: This one's a doozy ben. Why don't we split it up? Yeah, 378 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: let's let's take part to your way. Yeah, this is 379 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: this is This is a long one, but we think 380 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: it's important. It's beautifully written, Mendelssohn continues, these are productive 381 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: technical global tasks that wants to finally logically value a 382 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: century of technological inventions. Such tasks finally bring man's reign 383 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: over technology so that technology serves him rather than enslaves him, 384 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: because technology and machines are only tools in the hands 385 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: of man, simply a new element of his knowing about 386 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: the world, as once water, fire, air, and syder. Because 387 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: if we recognize the elements, then we will overcome chaos. 388 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: If we build from the elements, then a new world 389 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: will emerge. We'll skip ahead a little bit, get to 390 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: the banger at the very end, he says, Therefore, we 391 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: believe in a new world in a life of reason 392 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: and order and politics, economics, public life. The belief in 393 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: the accuracy of this interpretation is the deep significance of need, 394 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: the creative significance of this crisis. And we found that 395 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: via the excellent work Nol you mentioned earlier at the 396 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: top Cabinet Magazine indeed wonderful source one that I don't 397 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: think we've spent much time with before this episode. So 398 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: I'm gonna check out some more stuff from Cabinet Magazine 399 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: dot org very soon. And the thing is you know, 400 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: this wasn't the only massively you know, a big swing, 401 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: large scale plan to add land to Europe by draining 402 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: a major body of water, was it, Ben, No, you're right, no. 403 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: We we mentioned the work in the Netherlands, but there 404 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: was another one taking place in the North Sea from 405 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: We're pulling this from Modern Mechanics magazine, September of nineteen 406 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: thirty and they actually name checked the Netherlands in this 407 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: quote as well, don't they. Yes. Indeed, the magazine comments 408 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: if the extensive schemes for the drainage of the North 409 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: Sea are carried out according to the plan illustrated above, 410 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: which was conceived by a group of eminent English scientists, 411 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand square miles will be added to the 412 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: overcrowded continent of Europe. The reclaimed land will be walled 413 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: in with enormous dikes similar to the Netherlands dikes to 414 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: protect it from the sea, and the various rivers flowing 415 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: into the North Sea will have their courses diverted to 416 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: different outlets by means of canals. Who doesn't love a 417 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: good canal, Walk along a canal, you know, canal poetry. 418 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: If anybody you can live in now boats. If anyone's 419 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: in the toast of London with Matt Barry, you know 420 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: about canal poetry and you know what else has been poetry? 421 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: Ben Uh this two part episode on the one weird 422 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: European man's wild scheme to drain the Mediterranean and create 423 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: a new somewhat weirdly utopian, racist supercontinent. But big look 424 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: upon my works you mighty vibes. Yes, this is a 425 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: wild right, this is one of those that really rabbit 426 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: hold us. And I don't think we knew how how 427 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: deep this story would go into the strange thing is, 428 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: just how widely accepted it was, as as a feasible 429 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: plan for so long, just like ridiculous history. Thanks as 430 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: always for tuning in everybody. Uh No, thank you so 431 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: much as always my main man there. Thank you of 432 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: course the super producer Max Williams, and thank you the 433 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: one and only Casey Pegram. I've heard a lot of 434 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: check at or there's some noise on the internet asking 435 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: what happened to our good buddy. He is well, he 436 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: is healthy, and you may hear from him sooner than later. Yeah, 437 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: I heard some tremors on that one too. Sorry, I've 438 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: been watching a lot of succession lately, so I only 439 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: speak in corporate douchebag LINGO. Now, huge things to super 440 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: producer Max Williams and his brother Alex Williams, who composed 441 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: this theme that you're hearing in your very ears right now. 442 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickling the quister long mayhey, rain Um, and I 443 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: think we'll probably have him back before the year is 444 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: out to who knows, we will do some kind of 445 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: like year end thing. Podcast people do those, right, yeah, 446 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: And and we're we're both people and podcast people. I'd 447 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 1: love to get the whole gang together, you know what 448 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: I mean. We're still going to have our friends from 449 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Romance come aboard. We're gonna go check on their show. 450 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: We might might even be able to sweet talk Gabe 451 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: Lousier U in there as well. Shout out to you, 452 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: Gabe if you're tuning in, check out this day in 453 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: history class. What but a ride if I you know, 454 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: I keep thinking, though the Metal Interranean isn't the worst 455 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: place to build a super continent. I guess it would 456 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: be easier than building one in the middle of the Pacific. 457 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: But but now I'm just gonna think about that. How 458 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: do we tear it for I don't know bad. That's 459 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: some sci fi stuff right there too. Folks. Let us know. 460 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: You can write to us at Ridiculous at iHeart media 461 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: dot com. We'll see you next time, folks. For more 462 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 463 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.