Speaker 1: It was very weird and there was no critical You
Speaker 1: could not be critical of the team leader at all,
Speaker 1: Like any criticism was met with just like.
Speaker 2: A brick wall. That's the red flag, dude. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: Like the team leader had a special name that we
Speaker 1: all had to call her what I'm not even kidding, dude,
Speaker 1: like a mother god or whatever, you know that cult
Speaker 1: mother god. Yeah. Yeah, she had a special name that
Speaker 1: we all had to call her at the practices and
Speaker 1: if you didn't, someone would correct you. Wow, like we
Speaker 1: were encouraged to like correct each other.
Speaker 2: Whoa Yeah, Better Better.
Speaker 1: Welcome to More Better, the podcast where we stopped pretending
Speaker 1: to have it all together and embrace the what.
Speaker 2: The journey of something coming at and more better every day.
Speaker 2: That's mostly a marrow and that's Stephanie Beatrice. Hi, Hi,
Speaker 2: I can't wait for the editors to figure that one out.
Speaker 2: That that was all over the place. We are not
Speaker 2: going to redo it. It's not happening. How are you?
Speaker 2: I am good? How are you friend? What are you
Speaker 2: doing lately? That's a little more better?
Speaker 1: Oh, I have been. I bought some electrolyte powder. I
Speaker 1: bought some fucking electrolyte powder. To have in the mornings,
Speaker 1: Like you said, Yeah, I bought a low sodium one.
Speaker 2: Are you feeling good?
Speaker 1: I actually do feel I did leave it in the
Speaker 1: other room oopsis, but I like it. It's it. I
Speaker 1: took a bunch of pockets with me recently on like
Speaker 1: a trip, and they were really great. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: just am really, uh, what's the harm?
Speaker 2: What are I'm going to do?
Speaker 1: I'd been taking one that's a little less sodium because
Speaker 1: the highestodium ones like give me the give me the bloats,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're intense. Yeah, yeah, but I'm liking it.
Speaker 1: It's nice, right.
Speaker 2: I feel like it gives me a little like, uh
Speaker 2: like a little perk up when I do it in
Speaker 2: the morning. I know it's which I like.
Speaker 1: I definitely have felt a difference on the days that
Speaker 1: I remember to take it.
Speaker 2: That's great. What have you been doing that's more better?
Speaker 2: Thanks inspired by you? Oh that makes me feel good.
Speaker 2: I just got a physical yesterday, and I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been a little more better at just making sure
Speaker 2: like all my doctor's appointments are being taken care of
Speaker 2: while I am not working right now so much and
Speaker 2: have some time. Yeah, I have a cyst in my
Speaker 2: arm that I've had for like years. It's in like
Speaker 2: a it's in a special place because it sort of
Speaker 2: looks like a muscle sometimes, but it's getting bigger and
Speaker 2: I just needed bitch. What Yeah, it's like this. I
Speaker 2: forgot what it's called. It's one of those cists that, like,
Speaker 2: for sure is not anything bad. What do they call it? God?
Speaker 1: And Gangle insists, Okay, yeah, those are the ones that
Speaker 1: sometimes people have on their hands and they pop them.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so, Lila. I had this one in
Speaker 2: my twenties and got it taken out, and then almost
Speaker 2: fifteen years later or more, I don't know, Uh, it
Speaker 2: came back after I had axel. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was like pregnancy hormones. So people were saying, my god.
Speaker 2: Some doctors have said that it means they didn't get
Speaker 2: it all out the first time. But I'm like, for
Speaker 2: fifteen years, like, oh my god, there was nothing and
Speaker 2: then it just came back. But I guess I'm getting these.
Speaker 1: Bodies are booty dude bodies now, whack.
Speaker 2: So I'm finally having a consultation about it. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: So after saying for like a year that I'm going
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: That's great, congrats. It's very hard to make yourself do
Speaker 1: things like that. You just want to go like it's fine, fine,
Speaker 1: it's fine.
Speaker 2: Brad had an MRS yesterday. Ooh nice for his shoulder.
Speaker 1: He's had like an issue in his shoulder. And it's
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. It's like I'm sure it's okay.
Speaker 2: I'll just take some.
Speaker 1: Pills or whatever, and like I'm really glad you did that. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you you you're doing that.
Speaker 2: Anything that's yeah, it's like anything that's off you just
Speaker 2: gotta you're like, yes, it's annoying. Yes, you don't want
Speaker 2: to like you know, I think what stopped me too
Speaker 2: was having it like oh the stitches, and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to have to like stop working out
Speaker 2: for But it's like those are all dumb reasons, like this,
Speaker 2: where is it? Where is it? It's like right here
Speaker 2: like in the front. Yeah. So sometimes if I like
Speaker 2: have my hand on my hip, it sort of folds
Speaker 2: into like look like it makes me look like I
Speaker 2: have a more defied shoulder muscle than I do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but then, like I've seen red carpet photos like a
Speaker 2: little bit from the side and it's like boop and
Speaker 2: you just like see a bump and it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's that's not no, we need to get that out, guys.
Speaker 2: The red carpet. It's growing, it's getting bigger. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a little scar you get, like a cool little
Speaker 2: scar there. Yeah, if you don't want I don't, uh no,
Speaker 2: it's fine. I'm going to a plastic surgeon to see
Speaker 2: if they can do it like in my armpit more.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's great, or at least if they have
Speaker 2: to do it in the middle, it'll be like a
Speaker 2: better scar because it's a plastic surgeon.
Speaker 1: My dermatologist has this incredible skin. It's like for scarring
Speaker 1: because you know, like when I get acne, like turns
Speaker 1: really dark brown dark, or like if I scrape my
Speaker 1: foot or something, it's got like a huge dark spot.
Speaker 2: So she gave me this. Oh I can't remember what
Speaker 2: it's call.
Speaker 1: I'll look it up right now, but it's like a
Speaker 1: scar gel that you put on there and it is incredible.
Speaker 1: Melissa like, okay, this is not an ad, guys, I'll
Speaker 1: take it to you.
Speaker 2: Maybe we could put it in the show now. Nice.
Speaker 2: Scars also always turn dark or brown. Wait can you
Speaker 2: see this one, this new burn when I got oh,
Speaker 2: the white one. Yeah, that's the first time I've had
Speaker 2: a scar look like this. Oh that's so interesting. No,
Speaker 2: I never had a white scar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had you know what, I've had white spot
Speaker 1: mating my face from sun.
Speaker 2: Oh. I used to get those when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They used to tell me. I don't know if this
Speaker 2: is true. They used to tell me it was because
Speaker 2: I I touched lemon or something and then touched my
Speaker 2: face and you bleached your skin. Yeah, like lemon or lime.
Speaker 2: They're like, ah, you must have touched you know something citrus.
Speaker 1: I was like, cut to me with lather, like slathering
Speaker 1: lemon in my hair, laying out by the pool. When
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, kind of get blonde quote unquote blonde,
Speaker 1: my orange ass hair and in your high Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: what was that week son in sun.
Speaker 2: In just turned my hair red? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And all the commercials would be like these white girls
Speaker 1: with this beautiful blonde.
Speaker 2: Hair like shiny, and I'd be like, yes, that is
Speaker 2: what is about to happen. Yes, No, just got some
Speaker 2: auburn ass hair more better. Okay, what are we talking
Speaker 2: about today? We are talking about avoiding cults, getting more
Speaker 2: better at avoiding cults. Guys, I know that was a
Speaker 2: sharp right turn this, nurse. I tell you what.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about this because I've had personal experience.
Speaker 1: So let's just define cult really fast, which is like
Speaker 1: the dictionary definition of cults is like devotion, great devotion,
Speaker 1: intense devotion to a person, idea object, movement, or work
Speaker 1: like a film or book or the object is the
Speaker 1: thing that you're devoted to. And it's usually like a
Speaker 1: small group of people. Sometimes it's a very big group
Speaker 1: of people. Can be a system of religious relief, religious
Speaker 1: beliefs or a formal religion. Can be like a political group.
Speaker 1: Mega me.
Speaker 2: Excuse you. Yeah, So like.
Speaker 1: The thing about cults stuff. The thing about cults though,
Speaker 1: I do think they're fascinating. I listen to a lot
Speaker 1: of true crime podcasts or whenever there's a cult episode.
Speaker 1: I just think they're super fascinating. My sister listens to
Speaker 1: some ex fundamentalists podcasts that are really fascinating that we
Speaker 1: talk about sometimes what is that It's like fundamentalist Christianity,
Speaker 1: and so you know, like there's super strict rules and like,
Speaker 1: you know, they're religious beliefs in isolation from people. So like,
Speaker 1: here's the thing I want to like, we have a
Speaker 1: kind of the thing that I want to talk about
Speaker 1: for versus my personal experience, which is like a mini
Speaker 1: cult and it's.
Speaker 2: Going to be tricky to talk about because I don't
Speaker 2: want to name names. But I was part of a team.
Speaker 2: When I first moved to LA.
Speaker 1: I had a really hard time because I all of
Speaker 1: my friends were in New York mostly you know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you saw that. He saw the recognition go on.
Speaker 2: Was like when were you almost part of a cult?
Speaker 2: Right time?
Speaker 1: Right? So I was like desperate for friends. I was
Speaker 1: new to LA. I didn't have like a group that
Speaker 1: was like my friends, right, And we had started work
Speaker 1: and like work was cool and we were friendly at work.
Speaker 2: It was like the very beginning.
Speaker 1: It was the very beginning. And so I joined this team.
Speaker 1: And when I joined, I had to audition and it
Speaker 1: was very select process and I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: I'd made it in, you know, and it was really
Speaker 1: I didn't see the signs at first.
Speaker 2: I was just like I'm just part of this team.
Speaker 1: But there were things like we all had to dress
Speaker 1: a certain way. We were all kind of expected to
Speaker 1: like at our practices, we had to like it kind
Speaker 1: of felt like you had to conform to a certain
Speaker 1: practice look, right. So like certain certain people that were
Speaker 1: already on the team had their like practice outfits, right,
Speaker 1: And so you would come to practice and it would
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I have to look like this. So
Speaker 1: then you start like modifying how you're dressing a little bit,
Speaker 1: or like modifying like how you like showing.
Speaker 2: A Yeah, it's like felt weird. It kind of plays.
Speaker 1: It's like you can be individual, but it kind of
Speaker 1: has to be within this strict guideline, right, interesting, okay,
Speaker 1: And like you know, for practice, I would never wear
Speaker 1: like basketball shorts. That would not be okay, even though
Speaker 1: what we were doing was super physical with our bodies
Speaker 1: and it didn't really matter, but that's not what was expected.
Speaker 1: And like in team, like in like the competitions or
Speaker 1: the games or like the performances or whatever, we definitely
Speaker 1: had to it had to look a certain way and
Speaker 1: is less about a uniform and more about a look.
Speaker 1: Like we were even encouraged to pluck our eyebrows a
Speaker 1: certain way.
Speaker 2: And no eyebrows. Not the eyebrows.
Speaker 1: We were encouraged to the eyebrows specific specific eyebrow artists.
Speaker 2: That was, by the way, very expensive. Also, by the way,
Speaker 2: the one part of your body that can like change forever.
Speaker 2: Like all of us that survived the nineties will correct
Speaker 2: you correct. Some of us got lucky and that shit
Speaker 2: grew back. Yeah, but a lot of us it's not
Speaker 2: up there. Oh yeah, it's definitely like not what it
Speaker 2: could have what could have been? What could have been?
Speaker 1: Well, that was the thing, right, Like we were encouraged to,
Speaker 1: Like I grew out my eyebrows for like four months.
Speaker 2: I remember the makeup artists so triggered by that.
Speaker 1: I remember the makeup artists on Brooklyn was like, can
Speaker 1: I please pluck your eyebrows?
Speaker 2: I was like no, I'm not allowed. Like I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not allowed. There were things like.
Speaker 1: Certain things that we were encouraged to eat, certain ways.
Speaker 2: We were encouraged to show up like.
Speaker 1: You kind of needed to be at I mean, this
Speaker 1: was a these practices were all this is all unpaid, right, like, this.
Speaker 2: Is like for fun. This was all making paid like
Speaker 2: you're making friends, right.
Speaker 1: Most Like I think I added it up once and
Speaker 1: it was something like twelve hours of practice every week
Speaker 1: and if you didn't go to the practices, you weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to play, Like you weren't allowed to perform, to
Speaker 1: be in the thing. You weren't allowed It was like, well,
Speaker 1: you missed Friday's practice, so you can't come.
Speaker 2: Wait. It was true for you even though you were
Speaker 2: working on Brooklyn, Like if you couldn't yes because you
Speaker 2: were on set.
Speaker 1: Fuck that, and like and it made you feel you
Speaker 1: were meant made to feel like you're letting everybody down.
Speaker 1: It was like super and because this is like my
Speaker 1: only friend group now, like the isolation of the group
Speaker 1: became it was like you had to fit in and
Speaker 1: and and people got cut, like people got like there
Speaker 1: was a second round of auditions when I had been on.
Speaker 2: The team for a couple months, and.
Speaker 1: It was like certain people just didn't like it wasn't
Speaker 1: the aesthetic, you know what I mean, like the I'm
Speaker 1: making quote marks, but like they weren't the aesthetic. And
Speaker 1: it's like, so what is this? Is this like casting
Speaker 1: for an ad or are we playing on a team?
Speaker 1: Like what are we actually doing here? It was very
Speaker 1: weird and there was no critical. You could not be
Speaker 1: critical of the team leader at all, Like any criticism
Speaker 1: was met with just like the ball It was right, dude.
Speaker 1: It was crazy like the team when leader had a
Speaker 1: special name that we all had to call her what
Speaker 1: I'm not even kidding dude, like a mother god or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know that cult mother god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to.
Speaker 1: Talk about it in a minute, but like she had
Speaker 1: a special name that we all had to call her. Wow,
Speaker 1: the practices and if you didn't, someone would correct you,
Speaker 1: Like we were encouraged to like correct each other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, WHOA. What's interesting is I remember this time and
Speaker 2: I remember like yeah, because it was still like early
Speaker 2: Brooklyn days and and like for people that don't work
Speaker 2: this job, like you know, if you're on a show
Speaker 2: and a long running show like Brooklyn, like we all
Speaker 2: got along from the get go. We all were like
Speaker 2: very bonded, but you're still like coworkers and going to
Speaker 2: work like you're keeping things like pretty professional in the beginning.
Speaker 2: I don't think we really started to like open up
Speaker 2: about our personal lives and stuff until like season two
Speaker 2: or three. Yeah, right, like's it was also I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: like it was more surface stuff like we talked about
Speaker 2: our lives, but like we didn't get deep until like
Speaker 2: later in the run, you know, yeah, and so so yeah,
Speaker 2: So you and I obviously hit it off from the
Speaker 2: get go, and we were like especially bonded, like being
Speaker 2: scared about losing our jobs, being the two Latinas, and
Speaker 2: we talked a lot about our lives and stuff. And
Speaker 2: I remember you when you were doing this and like
Speaker 2: talking about it, and you were like excited. But also
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, like I can tell she really likes this,
Speaker 2: but there's like when someone's giving like a stress energy,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean, when they're like I
Speaker 2: really love this thing. It's really great, and it's like
Speaker 2: it's fine, like you know, there's certain things, but like
Speaker 2: it's okay, like you know, it's just like every oh
Speaker 2: my god. And I remember clocking that like a little
Speaker 2: bit here and there, not all the time, but I
Speaker 2: didn't know you well enough to be like, hey, girl,
Speaker 2: what's really going on? What's what's going on over there?
Speaker 2: And uh? And I feel like we even talked about
Speaker 2: I feel like you even invited me to like come
Speaker 2: watch or even audition or something, and I was like, eh,
Speaker 2: I was like group of girls make me nervous. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the thing. It's like answer, But it's just really
Speaker 2: interesting because it wasn't until you were out of it
Speaker 2: then you really started telling me like all that went on.
Speaker 2: And I remember having that feeling of like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: I picked up on a lit something maybe was off
Speaker 2: about it, but not like that, not like where I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, there's a red flag thing happening. Oh
Speaker 2: I need to like really check in on my friends
Speaker 2: and make sure she's okay. Yeah, you know, I just
Speaker 2: sort of chalked it up to like, you know, how
Speaker 2: gaggles of girls be crazy sometimes, gaggle certain gagles, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that is what is terrifying to me
Speaker 2: about cults is like you might not always know that
Speaker 2: you don't know a lot of times it's like yeah,
Speaker 2: because they are seemingly happy and excited and like doing
Speaker 2: this new thing, and you're like, oh wow, I've never
Speaker 2: seen you so energized or whatever, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: like unless you get that spidey sense or you know
Speaker 2: the person really well and you're like something's off and
Speaker 2: you have the balls to be like, hey, like really
Speaker 2: tell me more about this, it's so easy to miss.
Speaker 2: But even then, even then, even even if you ask
Speaker 2: the questions, even if you say right, you know, when
Speaker 2: I was kind of deep in it, I I mean,
Speaker 2: colts don't prey on people that are like happy and
Speaker 2: well adjusted, right, like right, because the happy and well
Speaker 2: adjusted women that were on that team, they didn't stay
Speaker 2: like they would write. They'd be like, oh I gotta go,
Speaker 2: oh you know yeah, or like.
Speaker 1: Uh, women that had dealt with There was a girl
Speaker 1: on the a woman on the team who had dealt
Speaker 1: with some I'm like rubbing my heart, but like she
Speaker 1: had dealt with some trauma, and she had such a
Speaker 1: visceral reaction to being on the team, and she left
Speaker 1: because she was like this is horrible. I don't know
Speaker 1: how you're dealing with this. And I was like, oh, wow, bad,
Speaker 1: you know, but like she knew it, she knew it
Speaker 1: inside her gut.
Speaker 2: More better.
Speaker 1: I want to like jump down to like a little
Speaker 1: bit of nerd time, because yeah, I think it's important
Speaker 1: to sort of say like, Okay, so there's this doctor
Speaker 1: who's a PhD. His name is Stephen Hassan. He developed
Speaker 1: this model, which I think is really interesting, called the
Speaker 1: byte model, to describe cults specific methods to recruit and
Speaker 1: maintain control over people. BITE stands for behavior, information, thought,
Speaker 1: and emotional control. The BITE models should be used to
Speaker 1: help determine authoritarian control. Colts don't recruit you at your strongest.
Speaker 1: They target people during transitions, new city, breakup, job loss, grief,
Speaker 1: searching for meaning. Stephen Hassan is an American mental health
Speaker 1: professional and an author who specializes in the area of cults.
Speaker 1: And he also is an ex Mooney the Unification Church.
Speaker 1: So he was actually in a cult and developed this model.
Speaker 1: And I was reading this before our session, but like
Speaker 1: I was reading some of it out loud to Brat
Speaker 1: and he was like, oh, because so much of it
Speaker 1: is like, let me read a couple things that are culty, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So in behavior behavior control, these are just like a
Speaker 1: couple things. But you can look this up. It's freedomomind
Speaker 1: dot com. But behavior control regulate individual's physical reality. Dictate where, how,
Speaker 1: and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates.
Speaker 1: Regulate diet, food and drink, hunger or fasting. Control types
Speaker 1: of clothing hairstyles, eyebrows, eyebrows, eyebrows, eyebrows, no basketball shorts,
Speaker 1: restrict leisure, entertainment, and vacation time. That again is like
Speaker 1: those twelve hours of practices, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I don't I'm not doing anything. Permission required
Speaker 1: for major decisions. You had to be like, is it
Speaker 1: cool if I cut my hair? Imposed rules and regulations.
Speaker 1: There's more right, Okay. Information control, one of them is
Speaker 1: like deception, deliberately withhold information, distort information to make it
Speaker 1: more acceptable. Systematically lie that was things that the leader
Speaker 1: definitely did that we just didn't know at the time.
Speaker 1: Encourage spying on other members so you were like encouraged
Speaker 1: to like correct or like tell or like. Thought control
Speaker 1: require members to internalize the group's doctrine as truth, like
Speaker 1: this is how we do it, this is who we are.
Speaker 1: Change a person's name or identity. Use of loaded language
Speaker 1: and cliches, which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts, and reduce
Speaker 1: complexities into platitudinous buzzwords. Encourage only good and proper thoughts.
Speaker 1: Emotional control manipulate and narrow the range of feelings. Teach
Speaker 1: emotion stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt,
Speaker 1: make the person feel that problems are always their own fault,
Speaker 1: never the leaders promote feeling of guilt or unworthiness, identity guilt,
Speaker 1: you're not living up to your potential. That was a
Speaker 1: big one because we would get like team notes, and
Speaker 1: they were never everything was always like, here's the negatives,
Speaker 1: here's the negatives. You guys aren't doing as good as
Speaker 1: you can. And so like for a bunch of women
Speaker 1: that feel wanted to, like, you know, perform and do well,
Speaker 1: it was so it just be like, after a while,
Speaker 1: is your your ego not your ego? Your sense of
Speaker 1: self gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,
Speaker 1: and that's what they want. They want that because then
Speaker 1: they can control you. And usually it's related in some
Speaker 1: kind of way to like money or them having power
Speaker 1: over you.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I was in it. I got out
Speaker 2: and you got out. I got out and if you
Speaker 2: weren't in it too long. I mean there's the other thing.
Speaker 1: They change and shift those cults because you know, like
Speaker 1: they change all the time. Right now, you I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about the TikTok dance cult thing because oh
Speaker 1: my god, I want to hear about this because you
Speaker 1: know about it.
Speaker 2: Yes, So there is this documentary it's on Netflix. It's
Speaker 2: called Dancing for the Devil. The sm so sorry, seven
Speaker 2: M S seven M TikTok cult and our friend Wilmer
Speaker 2: Valderrama produced it, which I didn't even realize until I
Speaker 2: watched it. So during the pandemic, I got really into
Speaker 2: we were. I was spending too much time on social media,
Speaker 2: like we all were, and I had a new board,
Speaker 2: so a lot of it was like me sitting, you know,
Speaker 2: scrolling while I breastfed and stuff. And I got really
Speaker 2: into these dancers that I found on Instagram because I
Speaker 2: used to dance and I'm still obviously love dance, and
Speaker 2: they all were doing these really cool videos and it
Speaker 2: was different. They were all la based the way they
Speaker 2: were shooting their videos, and it was mostly like hip hop,
Speaker 2: but sometimes it was other dance styles. And what I
Speaker 2: thought was cool was is like, you know, I would
Speaker 2: follow one and then they would do a dance with
Speaker 2: someone else, and I would follow that person. And I
Speaker 2: started to notice that it was like a group of dancers,
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is so cool. Look at
Speaker 2: these cutie dancers like making content and like hustling getting
Speaker 2: their names out there and like collaborating and yeah, and
Speaker 2: all the like groups were like it was just cool.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they would do big group numbers and sometimes whatever.
Speaker 2: They would pair off in different ways. And there was
Speaker 2: two dancers that were a couple and they were so
Speaker 2: cute and sweet, and they like posted there when they
Speaker 2: got engaged, and I was like, oh my god, Like
Speaker 2: I was fully you're in it, in it following these
Speaker 2: dancers and their lives and then trying to like suss
Speaker 2: out if there were any other couples. It was. So
Speaker 2: then this documentary comes out on Netflix and I recognize
Speaker 2: the dancers that I follow, and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: wait what this is ault?
Speaker 1: What adult?
Speaker 2: So apparently they all got approached or discovered by this
Speaker 2: manager who had a company called seven M and he
Speaker 2: also was part of a church and he was the
Speaker 2: leader of the church. I know on all of these things.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, tax evasion. It smells like tax evasion,
Speaker 1: right that. So yeah, so he is like booking them
Speaker 1: at events, helping produce all their videos, obviously getting a
Speaker 1: percentage of any like endorsement deals they're getting, like because
Speaker 1: now they're becoming like influencers on Instagram, like they all
Speaker 1: have like so many like hundreds of thousands of followers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they're getting brand da da whatever, and he's taking
Speaker 1: money from them.
Speaker 2: And then in the documentary it says the couple the
Speaker 2: cute couple that I loved. Apparently the girl used to
Speaker 2: started dancing with her sister, but then met this manager
Speaker 2: guy and started like distancing herself from her sister and
Speaker 2: her whole family and like listen obviously, like no, it's
Speaker 2: one point of view and all of these things, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, And like they never do they
Speaker 2: interview the girl, the dancer. I don't think they do.
Speaker 2: Her family though, seems seemingly very sweet, very worried, very
Speaker 2: sad that their daughter has like cut them off. The
Speaker 2: sister is like, this was my best friend day and
Speaker 2: I don't understand, Like I'm devastated. I don't know what happened,
Speaker 2: and yeah, and and so, and I just read as
Speaker 2: we were like going through the outline because I was
Speaker 2: looking up where is it? I was looking up just
Speaker 2: to make sure I didn't forget because I saw the
Speaker 2: documentary so long ago. And then I saw that in
Speaker 2: this past August, the guy, the manager and church leader,
Speaker 2: his house was raided by the FEDS and the couple
Speaker 2: swipe wiped their social media oh so like, and then
Speaker 2: it came out that he also like he wrapped all
Speaker 2: of these dancers. And then a couple of dancers are
Speaker 2: in the dock that like got out and they were
Speaker 2: like that same thing, like you had to dress a
Speaker 2: certain way, you had to look a certain way, you
Speaker 2: had to isolate from your family, like he wouldn't let
Speaker 2: you see your family, like you know, he was like
Speaker 2: where your family? Like where the thing? But then it
Speaker 2: also was like tangled up in like their careers and
Speaker 2: their ambition, and he was like you need me to
Speaker 2: like become successful, like I can get you there, and
Speaker 2: and then the like weird church aspect god aspect, like
Speaker 2: he also I think made it very like God wants
Speaker 2: you to be successful and like I'm the one that's
Speaker 2: going to show you a way. It was. I did
Speaker 2: not expect it to be so dark and twisted, and
Speaker 2: it's really sad. Like the dancers that got out that
Speaker 2: that like talked about it because they also like you
Speaker 2: could tell they still had love for like their friends,
Speaker 2: but like they were like this is fucked up, and
Speaker 2: I had out and like crazy and it was like
Speaker 2: something that seemingly looked so innocent and that I couldn't
Speaker 2: and then I and then I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, do I do I unfollow them all
Speaker 2: about a cult? Yeah? It was. It was you would
Speaker 2: never think. But and apparently like there's still I mean
Speaker 2: that couple is they wiped their social media? Apparently I
Speaker 2: didn't notice. But now I'm like, yeah, I haven't seen
Speaker 2: them on are they still together? Like are they I
Speaker 2: think they're still together, They're still in the cult? Are
Speaker 2: they still in this? I think so because this article.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, I'm so stress. I
Speaker 2: just saw this one part in the in the article
Speaker 2: where it said Miranda's family said their concern grew and
Speaker 2: when she declined to come home for a family funeral,
Speaker 2: and then several attempts to contact the dancer when unanswered. Oh,
Speaker 2: the final attempt to convince her, she was NonStop crying
Speaker 2: and told them that she needed permission from someone closer
Speaker 2: to God to attend the funeral. No, this is awful. See,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm saying, Like, Okay, it seems like
Speaker 2: you're not for yourself, but like, how do you It's
Speaker 2: really hard for me to understand, like how you get
Speaker 2: to that point even like how you give up that
Speaker 2: much of yourself because is it just like you're so
Speaker 2: you want to you don't want to be wrong, I'm
Speaker 2: sure as part of it the sense of belonging, like
Speaker 2: you know, you're like it said, like you're new to
Speaker 2: a city or you're out of a breakup and you're
Speaker 2: you're so lonely that you want you need that sense
Speaker 2: of belonging to something. Maybe it's that too, a sense
Speaker 2: of belonging to something bigger than you. That definitely, and
Speaker 2: that's ways like like calling then, like you know what
Speaker 2: an actual calling is, Like I don't know, but I
Speaker 2: just it's still as hard for me to to really
Speaker 2: imagine like giving up that much of my identity and autonomy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like like to say I need some although you know
Speaker 2: what as you were talking before, and I was thinking
Speaker 2: about like my time on the soap opera and like
Speaker 2: certain things that we had to get permission for or
Speaker 2: like or like I remember missing a couple family weddings
Speaker 2: because I worked, like the summer theater job I worked,
Speaker 2: had that like you're not gonna leave, Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to leave the show, which is kind of culty
Speaker 2: and even I missed my wedding.
Speaker 1: My best friend Jenna missed my wedding because she was
Speaker 1: in a show, and they were like.
Speaker 2: You can't leave, Like you can't leave, you can't leave.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's COVID did a lot of
Speaker 1: help with theater in that way, because now they have
Speaker 1: swings and understudies even for like regional perform or they're
Speaker 1: like unafraid to cancel.
Speaker 2: But like yeah, for everybody to be like, oh, we
Speaker 2: could figure it out, like we could the show could
Speaker 2: actually actually go on. Yeah, yeah, I value and like
Speaker 2: people should be allowed to show up for like major
Speaker 2: life events like but always it always felt like, you know,
Speaker 2: a funeral was the only a funeral of someone close
Speaker 2: to you, the only way you could get out of
Speaker 2: a show. And that feels very culty to me. And
Speaker 2: when I was younger, I just sometimes I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: ask because I'd be like, there's no way, like I
Speaker 2: could fire me, there's no they're gonna let me go
Speaker 2: to my cousin's wedding. And I missin's wedding. That's fun.
Speaker 2: I missed like a few family weddings because it shows
Speaker 2: I was in and that mentality more better it's that
Speaker 2: like this thing is bigger than you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's easy to kind of get caught up
Speaker 1: in the feeling of like, yes, there is something bigger
Speaker 1: than me.
Speaker 2: And like, look, whether you are religious or.
Speaker 1: Believe in God or not, like it it can be
Speaker 1: for people that believe in God, it can be like
Speaker 1: really freeing to kind of go like, yes, there is
Speaker 1: something bigger than me. I don't have to it's not
Speaker 1: all on my shoulders. It's I'm part of something bigger. Right,
Speaker 1: But like the problem is when people like twist that
Speaker 1: and like you know what am I trying to say?
Speaker 1: Like more, and like it's disgusting, Like it's really disgusting
Speaker 1: when you think about like religious cults especially, like it's
Speaker 1: so gross. But it's also like little by little, it's
Speaker 1: not like overnight that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Also, like they're sneaky.
Speaker 1: It's sneaky as fuck. Like it's not like you get
Speaker 1: get all these promises. Like there's these notes that we
Speaker 1: have here, like how to know if something's a cult? Right,
Speaker 1: Sociologists use different metrics like does it isolate its members?
Speaker 1: Can you question the leader? Can you not be a
Speaker 1: big one that's a big one? Can you leave freely?
Speaker 1: Can is their financial exploitation? So like those are signs, right,
Speaker 1: Like if someone's asking you to like give a bunch
Speaker 1: of money right off the bat, or like trying to
Speaker 1: get you to invest in this thing, or telling you like,
Speaker 1: well you have to tie like fifty percent of your
Speaker 1: paycheck to the religion or the church.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like do you like why are you that?
Speaker 2: The reason? Like what are we doing here? Right? Like
Speaker 2: I think I made that money?
Speaker 1: I mean I like to you know, like tithing I
Speaker 1: think is cool in terms of like I I always
Speaker 1: like try to think about like how can I give right?
Speaker 1: But if somebody's saying to me, like you have to
Speaker 1: you have to give to our Yeah, you know that's
Speaker 1: different organization, and like if you don't like that, that's
Speaker 1: the other thing. It's like, what are the consequences quote unquote,
Speaker 1: It's like, ye, the consequences of you going to your
Speaker 1: cousin's wedding are you're going to get fired and that
Speaker 1: everybody in the industry is going to know that you're undependable,
Speaker 1: like nobody can depend on you. It's like the consequences
Speaker 1: are so scary that you kind of become like Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess, I won't ask I guess, I won't.
Speaker 2: I want to guess the norm. Yeah, Like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: not special. It's not everybody's missing weddings. Like that's just
Speaker 2: what it is. You know, you are special. You are special,
Speaker 2: and so is your person that you want to go
Speaker 2: to would be therefore on their big day. Now, there are.
Speaker 1: There cults that you're in that you are kind of like,
Speaker 1: I'm okay with being in this call.
Speaker 2: Because I say I'm the coffee cult, the coffee coffee cult.
Speaker 2: You're in the coffee cult. I mean, I'm trying. I'm
Speaker 2: trying mushroom coffee today just because I can't believe you're
Speaker 2: doing that. First of all, it feels like a different universe.
Speaker 2: I still I'm undecided. It tastes a little bit like dirt, but.
Speaker 1: Not.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm offended by it, you know, Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, it sound like a bad dirt.
Speaker 1: But the coffee cult is like you guys don't fuck
Speaker 1: with shitty coffee, like you have to have your good coffee.
Speaker 2: Like I know, I get unreasonably offended when talk to
Speaker 2: me about this. Talk to me about this because I
Speaker 2: don't feel like it's that hard. It's not that hard hard.
Speaker 2: It's not that hard to make good coffee. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I don't understand why every set in Hollywood has bad coffee.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing it's a budget thing that that's where they
Speaker 2: skimp out, like they have to buy so many beans
Speaker 2: because they're making pots and pots of coffee ia right,
Speaker 2: Like how many pots of coffee do you? I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody's drinking coffee all day long on a set, so
Speaker 2: probably they have to get like fucking ten pound bags
Speaker 2: of coffee beans. But still I feel like, with a
Speaker 2: little more effort, you could source some better beans, yes, please,
Speaker 2: for an affordable price.
Speaker 1: Skimp on the the weird like nobody.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's vegetable tray, yes, or maybe it's skimp on
Speaker 3: that making it into too, because sometimes it's like those
Speaker 3: big ones and I don't know that they're capable of
Speaker 3: making good coffee.
Speaker 2: But it's just really annoying to me. But I'm not
Speaker 2: like deep in the cult where like I'm not, oh God,
Speaker 2: what's the coffee that Dan Gore used to always make
Speaker 2: with like the what's it called with the it's like
Speaker 2: the glass thing and the pour over the poor not
Speaker 2: Is it called a pour over? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. It's
Speaker 2: like the kraph the thing and then the hot water
Speaker 2: and then you weigh. Water takes forever to come down,
Speaker 2: and it's like slower than a French pet press. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not that intense about it, but I do. I
Speaker 2: do have a coffee maker that freshly grinds beans, because
Speaker 2: I do feel like that makes a huge difference. Ah,
Speaker 2: I know what cult you're part of. Tell me the
Speaker 2: fun one the Disney call.
Speaker 1: The Disney adults, specifically the Disney and Disney adults. We
Speaker 1: oftentimes didn't have the ability to go to Disney when
Speaker 1: we were children. Some of us have memories of going
Speaker 1: there for the first time we were teenagers. Me, I'm
Speaker 1: raising my hands, and now I have expendable income and
Speaker 1: got damn it.
Speaker 2: I'm going to spend it where.
Speaker 1: I want, against bend where I want.
Speaker 2: Okay, then I go to the parks. I'm gonna buy
Speaker 2: shit for myself. I'm gonna eat all the snacks. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna look things up before I go.
Speaker 1: My sister and I when we last went, it was
Speaker 1: right at the beginning of the Halloween stuff at Disney,
Speaker 1: and my sister and I she found on Canva someone
Speaker 1: had put together a like a guide of all of
Speaker 1: the Disney snacks, all of the.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you sent it to me when we went
Speaker 2: in August, the map, the map of Disneyland with all
Speaker 2: of it. I think I got like one thing. I
Speaker 2: was like, this is I was too like trying to
Speaker 2: just get us on rides. Like I was like, it's
Speaker 2: a lot of work to try to get these snacks
Speaker 2: on top of all this other stuff. We were there.
Speaker 2: I like, Disney is does it?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Why? Oh the I'm like, listen to me, look at me.
Speaker 2: I know you did. Why Why do you hate it?
Speaker 2: Why do tell me why you hate it? Wow? I
Speaker 2: think it was a better system before. I hate the
Speaker 2: Like when you have the what's the fast past, the magic?
Speaker 2: What's it called the Genie? Yeah, it's you have to
Speaker 2: be you literally have to be on your phone all
Speaker 2: day long to make sure that you're getting on those cues,
Speaker 2: that you're getting on those if you want to like
Speaker 2: maximize the day and get on as many rise as
Speaker 2: you can, it means that you are on your phone
Speaker 2: the whole day. Like when we went and when I
Speaker 2: went with Enzo last year, I was so happy that
Speaker 2: his friend's mom came with me. Yeah, I invited her
Speaker 2: and she's my friend and we were like, this will
Speaker 2: be great. And then I realized, oh, it's good, there's
Speaker 2: going to be another adult because I'm probably going to
Speaker 2: be looking at my phone a lot. And then I
Speaker 2: was looking at my phone so much more than I thought.
Speaker 2: But it just kind of like is a bummer. And
Speaker 2: I feel like the way it was before, where you
Speaker 2: could just like show up and like scan your phone,
Speaker 2: it was a simple. It was a better system before.
Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was
Speaker 2: like I think you like showed up and like scanned
Speaker 2: your phone and then maybe got a time or something
Speaker 2: and you could like or maybe reserve multiple rides. I
Speaker 2: don't know. But now it's like and then you can't
Speaker 2: like reserve the a ride and till you've done that ride,
Speaker 2: and then you're like, you know, so you're like constantly
Speaker 2: rearranging your day around these fucking ride times. But of
Speaker 2: course it's worth it because you're also like not really
Speaker 2: waiting online and you can go on more lines. So
Speaker 2: like it's just a lot.
Speaker 1: There, it is there, it is you have to prioritize
Speaker 1: what you and your family want out of the day.
Speaker 1: If your priority is writing as many rides as possible,
Speaker 1: you will be on your phone. Yes, if your priority
Speaker 1: is writing quite a few rides and then making sure
Speaker 1: that you like maybe your next experience there will be
Speaker 1: like I don't want to be on my phone as much.
Speaker 1: You just stick in your pocket and like you're going
Speaker 1: to do some eating and you're going to do some
Speaker 1: shopping and you're gonna do some people watching, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like it it is I think this
Speaker 1: This is as a cult member, I will say that
Speaker 1: I do think it is. It is about like pioryizing
Speaker 1: like what your family wants and and the give and
Speaker 1: take of Like if we want to ride as many
Speaker 1: rides as possible, some adult is going to be on
Speaker 1: their phone and that part will suck. But if we
Speaker 1: want to experience more of the park and the togetherness,
Speaker 1: then you know, then Disney gets a little bit more
Speaker 1: of your cash out of your pocket because they get
Speaker 1: you eating, baby. But also like there are like other
Speaker 1: things to experience at Disney, like the shows and there's
Speaker 1: like right, I mean, have you ever gone on like
Speaker 1: that big riverboat and like gone around you guys haven't
Speaker 1: done that.
Speaker 2: I bet no. Yeah, we did do that, so sweet.
Speaker 2: We haven't done that in a long time, but we
Speaker 2: And there's like that one a little island you can
Speaker 2: go on and like, oh yeah, we actually my kids
Speaker 2: love that little island. The little island is so cute
Speaker 2: and that's a great yeah if you're waiting, if you're
Speaker 2: waiting for a ride time. The playground.
Speaker 1: Both of the playgrounds, the one in Mickey'stontown and also
Speaker 1: the Redwood Forest one are just like made for mmmm.
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think we've done the playgrounds.
Speaker 1: You gotta get a coffee and then take them to
Speaker 1: the playground and you can just fucking sit with your
Speaker 1: coffee and they go buck wild.
Speaker 2: It's so fun.
Speaker 1: That part is great. As a cult member, I have
Speaker 1: like lots of tips. Should we do an episode on Disney?
Speaker 2: Okay, we literally could do an episode on Disney. I
Speaker 2: will say going to Disney with Stephanie Beatrice is the
Speaker 2: most fun because it reminded me of when I used
Speaker 2: to go to Disney World as a kid and my
Speaker 2: Florida cousins would like know all the hacks and like
Speaker 2: god to contracts and like, yeah, one time my aunt
Speaker 2: was pregnant, and she was like, we're gonna get all
Speaker 2: all these rides super fast. She was like, watch this,
Speaker 2: watch this more better.
Speaker 1: So in conclusion, I feel like, if you're in a
Speaker 1: joyful cultuh that's okay.
Speaker 2: If one that allows you to have multi groups of friends, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and not restrict.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got people in my life that don't
Speaker 1: give a shit about Disney, and uh.
Speaker 2: That's okay. Disney's okay with that. Yeah, Disney's okay with that.
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, if you're in a real
Speaker 1: cult and and like just to say, like, I know
Speaker 1: we're joking about this and having fun about it, but
Speaker 1: like there are resources available if you if you are
Speaker 1: feeling like you're listening to this and you're like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I think maybe there's something wrong with like an organization
Speaker 1: that I'm a part of, a group that I'm a
Speaker 1: part of.
Speaker 2: There. Actually, before we go, yeah, we should we I
Speaker 2: we should read these protection tips from Yeah yeah, please
Speaker 2: do please do so. The first one, maintain relationships outside
Speaker 2: any single group. That's like a big one. Right, we
Speaker 2: all have like should have different groups of friends, even
Speaker 2: if some are casual, you know, but you should and
Speaker 2: that should be okay not Yeah. You don't want to
Speaker 2: have one group of friends that's not weird weird. Be
Speaker 2: weary of groups that demand immediate commitment or secrecy. Yes,
Speaker 2: question why a group needs your money right now. Healthy
Speaker 2: communities let you leave without consequences. Yes, ding ding ding ding.
Speaker 2: If you can't criticize the leader, that's a red flag.
Speaker 2: I think that's like the biggest One's huge, And then
Speaker 2: this is a good one. Sleep on major decisions. Cults
Speaker 2: pressure you to decide right now. Yeah, that's good. That's huge, huge, huge.
Speaker 1: And there's a website called people Leave Cults dot com
Speaker 1: that can provide intervention, support and recovery.
Speaker 2: If you are feeling like maybe you don't really know how.
Speaker 1: To get out of the thing that you're in, maybe
Speaker 1: you can just poke around and on that website and
Speaker 1: see if anything speaks to you. I feel like, uh,
Speaker 1: I know from personal experience, when the red flags are
Speaker 1: red flagging and that little like buzzy buzzy back of
Speaker 1: my head, pit of my stomach.
Speaker 2: Thing is happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously like I Disney forever, but.
Speaker 2: Obviously, but coffee forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I do you feel a little more better
Speaker 1: about like avoiding avoiding the cult lifestyle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. It wasn't something I was super worried about.
Speaker 1: Before this, but but it was fun to talk about.
Speaker 2: But it was fun to talk about. And also, yeah,
Speaker 2: even if there's like one person listening to this who's like,
Speaker 2: oh no, like we did, we did a service today,
Speaker 2: so I'll take it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, watch some documentaries. There's tons out there. They're so
Speaker 1: crazy to watch.
Speaker 2: And if you haven't seen Dancing for the Devil, go
Speaker 2: check it out on Netflix or check out the podcast
Speaker 2: Forgive Me for I Have Followed. It's hosted by one
Speaker 2: of the ex Cult members, Kaliah Gray, and the executive
Speaker 2: producer of the docuseries, Jessica Assevedo. They connect with ex members,
Speaker 2: some are featured in the docs, some are not, their families,
Speaker 2: journalists and cult experts.
Speaker 1: I love listening to this kind of stuff, so I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't listened to it yet, but it's now it's
Speaker 1: on my list.
Speaker 2: Same. I do want to watch more documentaries though, because yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: They're pretty fascinating and a wise man learns from another's mistakes.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, Sage Stephanie I stole it from somebody. Okay,
Speaker 2: I love it. Okay. Uh. We'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 2: See you next time. Bye bye, More Better.
Speaker 1: Do you have something you'd like to be more better
Speaker 1: at that you want us to talk about in a
Speaker 1: future episode?
Speaker 2: Can you relate to our struggles or have you tried
Speaker 2: one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1: Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: And include a voice note if you want to be
Speaker 2: featured on the pod.
Speaker 1: Ooh, More Better with Stephanie Melissa is a production from
Speaker 1: WV Sound and iHeartMedia's Mikudura podcast network, hosted by me, stephan.
Speaker 2: Beatrice, and Melissa Fumero.
Speaker 1: More Better is produced by isis Madrid and Sophie Spencer Zebos.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Stephanie Beatrice, myself, Melissa Fumero, along
Speaker 2: with Wilmar Valderrama and Leo Clem at w V Sound
Speaker 2: and ISIS Madrid.
Speaker 1: This episode was edited by ISIS Madrid and engineered by
Speaker 1: Sean Tracy and features original music by Madison Davenport and
Speaker 1: Hello Boy.
Speaker 2: Our cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by
Speaker 2: David Abolos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2: See you next week, suck us Bye,