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Speaker 1: It's the Senate's turn now to vote on a continuing

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Speaker 1: resolution that would keep the government open for yet another week.

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Speaker 1: We are kicking the can down the road once again,

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Speaker 1: assuming that this measure passes. So let's go now to

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Speaker 1: the senence majority with Illinois Democratic Senator Dick Durbin is

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Speaker 1: with us now. Senator, thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 1: When is this vote happening and are you confident the

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Speaker 1: votes will be there to get this to the President's desk.

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Speaker 2: I have confidence that we're going to pass this continuing

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Speaker 2: resolution and at least by another week, maybe longer, to

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Speaker 2: finish the appropriation process. I think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: done this evening in the United States Senate. But before

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Speaker 2: we have any ticker tape parades for Congress, let's remember

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Speaker 2: we're in the fifth month of the fiscal year, fifth

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Speaker 2: month out of twelve. We still don't have the appropriation

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Speaker 2: bills passed that we should. I want to salute Patty Murray,

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Speaker 2: the Democrat from Washington, and Susan Collins, Republican from Maine

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Speaker 2: in the Senate. They've been working on this for months.

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Speaker 2: They've done a great job. I just hope the House

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Speaker 2: can catch up with us.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate the reality check here, Senator, because a lot

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Speaker 4: of work has yet to be done. I realized there

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Speaker 4: are top line agreements here, but the real work remains,

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Speaker 4: and I wonder if you think there might be a

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Speaker 4: need for another. Is this the last CR that we're

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Speaker 4: going to see this fiscal year?

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Speaker 2: Far be it from me to predict the last CR.

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Speaker 2: I've been around here a few years, and I've never

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Speaker 2: seen one quite like this. What's happened over in the

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Speaker 2: House of Representatives is unprecedented. Fifteen ballots for one speaker

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Speaker 2: who has then removed another speaker who emerges after days

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Speaker 2: of mystery negotiations. I don't know Mike Johnson. I wish

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Speaker 2: him the very best to Speaker the House of Representatives.

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Speaker 2: I think he's doing the right thing, buying a week

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Speaker 2: or two to finish this off, but let's get it done.

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Speaker 1: Well, Senator, do you also think he's doing the right thing?

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Speaker 1: Not putting the aid package passed by the Senate on

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Speaker 1: the floor of the House that would provide funding to

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Speaker 1: allies like Ukraine and Israel, or is this going to

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Speaker 1: require a discharge petition?

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Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you the discharge petition is a

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Speaker 2: theory that various element happens. I hope that the people

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Speaker 2: come to their senses. If this measure, this bipartisan measure

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Speaker 2: that we passed in the Senate to deal with the

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Speaker 2: Defense supplemental is voted, brought up for a vote in

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Speaker 2: a House of Representative I believe will pass. I think

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Speaker 2: there's bipartisan support for it. But he has to have

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Speaker 2: the courage to defy some of the extreme members in

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Speaker 2: the Republican Caucus and bring it up for a vote.

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Speaker 2: I certainly hope he does.

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Speaker 4: Well. Let's stay in the reality lane for a minute, then, Senator,

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Speaker 4: because we know what we've heard from Speaker Johnson, and

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Speaker 4: we know that you want to see that money get

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Speaker 4: to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. If we're in a world

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Speaker 4: in which a discharge petition is a fantasy, and I

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Speaker 4: think that's what you're suggesting, there is another approach in

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Speaker 4: the House that might bring a separate bill with defense

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Speaker 4: only money, whether or not there's a special mechanism to

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Speaker 4: bring it to the floor. If that was the best

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Speaker 4: version you got in the Senate, would you vote for it?

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Speaker 2: I'd be troubled by it because there's a provision in

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Speaker 2: our bill for humanitarian assistance, which is absolutely life or

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Speaker 2: death essential in Gaza and critical places around the world.

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Speaker 2: And to send just the military side of it and

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Speaker 2: ignore the reality of the humanitarian nightmare taking place in

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Speaker 2: Gaza is a serious, serious mistake. We need to put

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Speaker 2: the whole measure before the House. Let them vote. I

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Speaker 2: believe there'll be a strong bipartisan majority for them.

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Speaker 1: Well, speaking of a bipartisan view on this issue. Of course,

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the aisle in your chamber,

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Speaker 1: the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has been a vocal

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Speaker 1: advocate for aiding Ukraine, and of course he told the

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Speaker 1: world yesterday he will no longer be the Republican leader

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Speaker 1: in the Senate after the election in November. I'd like

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Speaker 1: you to just listen to part of what Santra McConnell

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Speaker 1: said on the floor yesterday. I'll have you respond.

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Speaker 3: I know the politics was in my party a moment

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Speaker 3: in time. I have many faults. Misunderstanding politics is not

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Speaker 3: one off. That's it. I believe more sean than ever

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Speaker 3: that America's global leadership is essential to preserving the Shining

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Speaker 3: City on a Hill that Ronald Reagan discussed.

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Speaker 1: Senator. He spoke about awareness of the politics in his

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Speaker 1: party and being aware of those politics, and who potentially

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Speaker 1: could replace him as leader, who would bring the greatest

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Speaker 1: chance of bipartisan cooperation with Democrats.

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Speaker 2: You know, there are three people who are mentioned and

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Speaker 2: they're currently in leadership on the Republican side. John Thune,

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Speaker 2: John Cornyan, and John Brasso. I've worked with all three

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Speaker 2: of them. I can work with him in the future.

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Speaker 2: So if they turn out to generate the leader of

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Speaker 2: the party in the United States Senate, I think it'll

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Speaker 2: be a positive thing. But it's up to the Republicans.

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Speaker 2: They may choose one of those or someone else. The

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Speaker 2: bottom line is we need to work on a bipartisan

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Speaker 2: basis to solve the problems of this country. You talked

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Speaker 2: earlier in one of your programs about the border crisis.

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Speaker 2: It does exist. We had a bipartisan response put together

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Speaker 2: brought to the floor just a few weeks ago, asking

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Speaker 2: the Republicans to join us in an effort to pass

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Speaker 2: it to make some progress. It was endorsed by the

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Speaker 2: Border Patrol agents, endorsed by the Wall Street Journal, and

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Speaker 2: they rejected it. They would move forward. We need someone

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Speaker 2: who will accept a good bipartisan compromise that moves us

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Speaker 2: forward as a nation on our border and in many

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Speaker 2: other areas.

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Speaker 4: The border seems to creep its sway into just about

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Speaker 4: every issue that we talk about, certainly every attempt at

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Speaker 4: policy making, at lawmaking. Senator Durbin, I wonder what you

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Speaker 4: can tell us about this effort to not only have

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Speaker 4: Secretary Alejandro Majorcus impeached, but have a trial to convict

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Speaker 4: him in the Senate. The conventional wisdom is that it

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Speaker 4: will die a quiet death in your chamber, but how well.

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Speaker 2: There are various ways to do it. It is a

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Speaker 2: political stunt by the House of Representatives and really tells

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Speaker 2: us the story of why we have a problem. Instead

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Speaker 2: of dealing with the budget keeping the lights on for

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Speaker 2: a full fiscal year, they went off and impeached the

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Speaker 2: Secretary of Homeland Security. There was no basis for that.

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Speaker 2: No high crime or misdemeanor was even alleged in this situation.

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Speaker 2: They wasted their time on it, and it's a waste

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Speaker 2: of time in the Senate. I hope we spend very

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Speaker 2: little time with that. Let's roll up our slaves on

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Speaker 2: a bipartisan basis and start solving problems instead of political stunts.

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Speaker 1: Well, as we talk about the border. Obviously, we saw

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Speaker 1: President Biden and former President Trump on the border in Texas,

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Speaker 1: which is a border state, yesterday, and yet we've heard

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Speaker 1: language from the likes of Speaker Mike Johnson just today

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Speaker 1: that every state right now is a border state because

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Speaker 1: of the way migrants are moving through the country, including

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Speaker 1: two major Democratic stronghold cities like New York and also Chicago. Senator,

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Speaker 1: what are you seeing in real time on the ground

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Speaker 1: at home.

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Speaker 2: It's a struggle. The governor of Texas is dumping off

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Speaker 2: families in the dark of night, many times in remote

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Speaker 2: areas of my state, and they're finding their way into

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Speaker 2: Chicago under desperate circumstances. One little boy recently died after

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Speaker 2: he arrived. I mean, it's a terrible humanitarian situation brought

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Speaker 2: on unnecessarily by the governor of Texas. But it does

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Speaker 2: reflect the fact that the border needs to be changed

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Speaker 2: and the laws need to be changed on the border.

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Speaker 2: President Biden has said that he's working on a bipartisan

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Speaker 2: basis on a bill, but unfortunately Donald Trump, former President Trump,

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Speaker 2: said clearly he doesn't want to move forward in that

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Speaker 2: and he says, he said, very clearly, please blame me

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Speaker 2: for stopping this bill, this bipartisan bill from moving forward. Well,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. I'm going to blame him

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Speaker 2: for stopping at least progress that needs to be made

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Speaker 2: at the border immediately.

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Speaker 4: Well, is Illinois a border state, and I'm not talking

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Speaker 4: about Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3: Senator Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Can tell you that you know, we are of immigrants.

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Speaker 2: We are a state of immigrants, and they've done a

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Speaker 2: remarkable job in making this in the nation it is today.

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Speaker 2: My mother was an immigrant to this country. I'm very

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Speaker 2: proud of that fact. But we cannot accept everyone who

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Speaker 2: wants to come into the United States at this moment.

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Speaker 2: We need an orderly process at the border. We need

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Speaker 2: to accept those who are no threat to us and

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Speaker 2: make us a stronger nation. Unfortunately, the situation can't move

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Speaker 2: forward unless we have something like this bipartisan bell that

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Speaker 2: was agreed to with Senator Langford, Republican of Oklahoma. Senator

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Speaker 2: Murphy Democratic, Connecticut, an independent senator from Arizona, and she's

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Speaker 2: been a critical element in this whole process.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you mentioned that you do pass blame on

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Speaker 1: former President Donald Trump for disrupting that future progress on

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Speaker 1: that specific measure. On the subject of former President Trump,

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Speaker 1: it was this time yesterday when we got news from

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court that they will hear his immunity question

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Speaker 1: where he claims immunity from prosecution here in Washington and

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Speaker 1: Jacksmith's twenty twenty election interference case. Do you view that

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Speaker 1: as a political move by this court knowing it could

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Speaker 1: potentially delay his trial so that it does not take

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Speaker 1: place before election day?

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Speaker 2: Well, it is an interesting coincidence that they have delayed

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Speaker 2: this for two months and they make it almost impossible

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Speaker 2: to resolve all of his indictments before the date of

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Speaker 2: the upcoming election. But this issue has to be resolved,

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Speaker 2: and he raised it. He believes that as president, he

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Speaker 2: somehow has a do not go to jail card forever.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that's true, and I hope the court

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Speaker 2: doesn't find it that way.

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Speaker 4: Well, Senator, of course, as chairman, you were in the

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Speaker 4: room for the hearings that confirmed the three justices that

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Speaker 4: came in the Trump administration. Were you aware at the time.

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Speaker 4: I know these were difficult hearings. I watched them all.

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Speaker 4: Were you aware at the time that you were sowing

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Speaker 4: the seeds for a decision like this.

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Speaker 2: No, I didn't think this would happen. But you know,

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Speaker 2: these nominees for Supreme Court justices make very passive and

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Speaker 2: neutral statements. They don't want to be pinned down on anything.

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Speaker 2: The fact is, once they've taken the oath of office

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Speaker 2: to serve for life, the real visions of their views

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Speaker 2: America start coming before the voters from one end to

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Speaker 2: the other. In this situation, we learn a lot more

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Speaker 2: about the justices after they're sworn in.

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Speaker 1: Well, and of course, those are just the three justices

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Speaker 1: that were appointed and confirmed during Trump's administration. There is

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Speaker 1: another justice, though, that you have taken issue with, Justice

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Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas, whose wife, Jenny Thomas, is actually involved in

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Speaker 1: many of these twenty twenty electoral questions. You have called

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Speaker 1: for his refusal in a number of these cases as

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Speaker 1: a result he heard the arguments on the fourteenth Amendment question.

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Speaker 1: We haven't gotten any real sign that he plans to

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Speaker 1: recuse himself from the case they will hear in April.

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Speaker 1: As it relates to immunity, Is there anything Senator, you

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Speaker 1: can do to change that?

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Speaker 2: No, of course not. Impeachment is out of the question.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to happen. But the fact of the

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Speaker 2: matter is, it's a conflict of interest for Clarence Thomas

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Speaker 2: to sit on some of these cases after his wife

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Speaker 2: was personally and directly involved in negotiating with the highest

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Speaker 2: levels of the White House during this controversy. He should

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Speaker 2: step aside for the good of the court and his

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Speaker 2: own reputation.

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Speaker 4: Senator, you've been a creature of the Upper Chamber for

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Speaker 4: some time. I wonder with everything that we've been talking about,

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Speaker 4: the potential leadership battle for the Republican Conference in the Senate,

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Speaker 4: the possibility of Donald Trump being elected again, even if

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Speaker 4: he isn't the heavy hand that he's held over Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 4: do you fear the Senate will soon start looking and

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Speaker 4: feeling like the House.

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid that it might. There are some elements in

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Speaker 2: the Senate even today that harkened back to the approach

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Speaker 2: of politics of Donald Trump. You did a story on

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Speaker 2: a show just right before I came on, where they

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Speaker 2: did a survey and said that a large percentage of

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Speaker 2: the population was afraid to vote for Donald Trump because

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Speaker 2: he was dangerous. I've been around politics a number of years.

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Speaker 2: I can never remember a major candidate for president of

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Speaker 2: the United States being characterized as dangerous by voters across

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Speaker 2: the United States. But that is the reality. When Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump says either inject or drink a bottle of bleach

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Speaker 2: to avoid COVID, or invite NATO allies to be attacked

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Speaker 2: by Vadimir Putin, it is dangerous, and I think the

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Speaker 2: American people are aware of that reality. I hope that

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Speaker 2: doesn't infect the United States Senate.

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Speaker 1: Senator, we have less than a minute left, but that

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Speaker 1: same pal actually found a greater share of voters find

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Speaker 1: President Biden too old. Is enough being done to counter

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Speaker 1: that message.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that Joe Biden would like to be younger tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: but he doesn't have the power to do that. I

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Speaker 2: would trust his judgment and his stamina or were a

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Speaker 2: dangerous candidate for president any day.

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Speaker 4: Senator, we appreciate your spending time with us this evening.

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Speaker 4: Dick Durbin of Illinois with us from Capitol Hill. We

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Speaker 4: hope you get home this evening. Senator, come back and

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Speaker 4: see us again soon.