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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of All Lots. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tracy Alloway, Executive editor of Bloomberg Markets, and I'm Joe

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Speaker 1: wisn't Thal, Managing editor of Bloomberg Markets. So, Joe, we

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Speaker 1: talk about millennials quite a bit, what they like, what

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Speaker 1: impact they're having on the economy, and you actually have

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Speaker 1: a pretty good definition of millennials from what I remember.

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Speaker 1: Share it with us. That's right, I do, because there's

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Speaker 1: always these debates that go on. They're like, oh, if

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Speaker 1: you're born in one or nine, eight, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: and I always kind of find that to be a

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Speaker 1: little um meaningless. The definition of millennial in my view

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Speaker 1: is did you have Facebook when you were in college? Um?

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Speaker 1: I didn't. But it feels to me that that's important,

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Speaker 1: not just from a time perspective, but because that's really

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Speaker 1: sort of defining different in how people live and how

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Speaker 1: people inter act, and how people find partners and how

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Speaker 1: people find friends, and that's such a crucial distinction, the

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Speaker 1: sort of pre Facebook crowd and afterwards that I think

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Speaker 1: it's the perfect definition. Okay, So I actually did have

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Speaker 1: Facebook in college, more because we were one of the

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Speaker 1: first colleges to get it than being particularly younger than you.

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Speaker 1: But I guess that makes me a millennial in some senses,

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Speaker 1: so you know, as a card carrying millennial. One of

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Speaker 1: the things I followed very closely is the idea of

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Speaker 1: intergenerational conflict, so the idea that young people are angry

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Speaker 1: with old people over certain trends happening in the economy.

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Speaker 1: And you've been following this closely as well. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a huge topic, and you really love this topic though

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Speaker 1: you love anything relating to intergenerational warfare, or maybe warfare

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Speaker 1: is too strong, but at least conflict. You get very

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Speaker 1: excited about it. I do, so. I guess the thing

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Speaker 1: that um got me most excited about it was when

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Speaker 1: I first wrote about it. Gosh, I think it was

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand nine. I actually did a post

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Speaker 1: under the headline kill the Old, and it was kind of, well,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of tongue in cheek, but it made

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Speaker 1: a serious point, which was that in the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: the financial crisis, the younger generation had really been given

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Speaker 1: a raw deal by the older generations, so we were

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Speaker 1: kind of paying for a lot of their excesses. We

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Speaker 1: had the housing boom, which made getting a mortgage much

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Speaker 1: tougher for younger people. We had pension schemes that were

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Speaker 1: now underfunded, which young people have to pay for and

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Speaker 1: they don't get to enjoy the benefits. I could go

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Speaker 1: on and on and on, but instead of doing that,

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Speaker 1: let's bring in our guest for today. She is Laura Gardner.

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Speaker 1: She's a senior research and policy analyst over at the

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Speaker 1: Resolution Foundation, which is a think tank that looks into

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Speaker 1: a living standards, especially for poorer earners, and she actually

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Speaker 1: wrote a really, really good report on this topic. It's

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Speaker 1: called The Stagnation Generation The Case for Renewing the Intergenerational Contract.

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Speaker 1: So it's slightly more sedate title than Kill the Old,

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Speaker 1: but maybe there's some of that in there. Hiler, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us. So maybe to begin, you could walk

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Speaker 1: us through why you decided to focus on intergenerational conflict

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Speaker 1: or tension specifically, because the think tank doesn't necessarily always

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Speaker 1: look at this, right, you're looking usually at improving living

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Speaker 1: standards for the lowest earners in the UK. That's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why we've we've taken this new focus

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Speaker 1: on inter generational issues is because in the COT is

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Speaker 1: because in the course of a lot of our analysis

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Speaker 1: of different living standards outcomes in the UK, these kind

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Speaker 1: of intergenerational concerns really started coming through. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: we spend an awful lot of time looking at what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the labor market in the UK, as

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Speaker 1: as that's such a big determinant of household living standards.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the pay squeeze, really long

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Speaker 1: and deep pay squeeze we've had since two thousand and

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Speaker 1: nine in the UK, you immediately find that young people,

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Speaker 1: those in their twenties had a much deeper pay squeeze

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Speaker 1: than than older workers, so they seem to bear the

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Speaker 1: brunt of the paypals in the downturn. And then if

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Speaker 1: you look, say at the housing market, and you look

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Speaker 1: at how much people are spending on private rent and

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Speaker 1: falling rates of homeownership, you see that very much hitting

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Speaker 1: young people who are spending the highest proportions of their

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Speaker 1: incomes on their housing costs. And then you'd say you

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Speaker 1: might look at pensions in the workplace, and and and

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Speaker 1: who's in receipt of or who's set to get what

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Speaker 1: we call kind of define benefit or final salary pension

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Speaker 1: schemes in the UK, which is when you kind of

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Speaker 1: got a lifetime income promised. These these kind of really

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Speaker 1: gold plated mentions really a thing in the past. I

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Speaker 1: think only three of our fit See one hundreds, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of our top one hundred companies still offer

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Speaker 1: them to new members. So so those are kind of

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Speaker 1: three examples of where you might look across across public policy,

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Speaker 1: across labor market, across the housing market and see things

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Speaker 1: looking to tip away from the young in favor of

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Speaker 1: older generations. But those are very snapshot pictures. We're not

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Speaker 1: comparing like with like. We're not comparing young people today

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Speaker 1: with those with young people in the same age thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago. So we wanted to get underneath these apparent

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Speaker 1: concerns and do a really rigorous assessment of intergenerational furnace

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Speaker 1: over the life cause, which led to this this Stagnation

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Speaker 1: Generation Report and the long eighteen month project we are

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Speaker 1: doing off the back of it. So what did you

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Speaker 1: learn when you took this deeper look as opposed to

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Speaker 1: just comparing young people today verse the older generation today?

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Speaker 1: What did you learn are some key differences in how

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Speaker 1: the economy was structure today versus when the order generation

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Speaker 1: were themselves young. If we if we go back to

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Speaker 1: the labor market for example, and what's what's going on

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Speaker 1: with pay. So we normally expect, in the long march

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Speaker 1: of history, each generation to earn more than the one

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Speaker 1: before it, because usually earnings growth is faster than growth

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Speaker 1: in prices is fast than inflation. You'd expect each generation

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Speaker 1: in a growing economy to do better than the one before.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened from the from the silent generation

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Speaker 1: to the Baby Beamers and the baby Beamers to Generation X.

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Speaker 1: Each generation earns more than the last as a big

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Speaker 1: step up. And we're a bit different to you, Joe,

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Speaker 1: because we we we do decide to stick a year

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Speaker 1: definition on the millennials. We look at the we look

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Speaker 1: at those born between one and two thousand in the

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Speaker 1: UK as a millennials, and I still I still don't

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Speaker 1: qualify as a millennial. I think I think it fits

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Speaker 1: quite well with the Facebook deaf and iss and you suggested, actually,

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Speaker 1: when when I think about Facebook, hit hit universities in

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Speaker 1: the UK slightly later, but I remember having it myself,

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Speaker 1: so I think it's just about works. Um. So if

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Speaker 1: you look at the millennials and you compare them to

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Speaker 1: Generation X, that those born in the fifteen years before them.

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Speaker 1: In their sort of their first ten years of their career,

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Speaker 1: so far, they've failed to earn more than Generation X.

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Speaker 1: They've actually earned a bit less. We estimate about eight

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Speaker 1: thousand pounds less over the course of their twenties. So

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Speaker 1: so on this like for like comparison, we do indeed

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Speaker 1: have suggestions that the millennials could be the first generation

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Speaker 1: to not significantly exceed their predecessors in terms of earnings.

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Speaker 1: So that's one example, and then I just mentioned one

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Speaker 1: more from the housing market, which is even starker. So

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Speaker 1: we've looked at declining rates of home ownership across the generations,

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Speaker 1: and the peak generation for homeownership in the UK was

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Speaker 1: the Baby Beamers, those born between By the age of thirty,

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Speaker 1: about two thirds of Baby Boomers own their own home.

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Speaker 1: Now that fell a bit for generation next after them,

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Speaker 1: but for the Millennials it's kind of fallen off a cliff.

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Speaker 1: So by the age of thirty, only about thirty millennials

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Speaker 1: own their own home in the UK. So we've had

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Speaker 1: this massive decline in home ownership, which is on a

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Speaker 1: like for like basis, means millennials are much more likely

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Speaker 1: to be stuck in the private rented sector, unable to

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Speaker 1: save up for those house deposits and paying far more

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Speaker 1: in private rent as a result, which has shot up

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Speaker 1: in recent years. So those are kind of two examples

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Speaker 1: of of of where this kind of generational conflict really

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Speaker 1: comes through when you go into the kind of deep

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Speaker 1: dive into the data and look at stuff like for like. So,

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Speaker 1: how much of those sorts of trends have to do

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Speaker 1: with the financial crisis and to what degree do we

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Speaker 1: expect that they might get better as we get further

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Speaker 1: and further away from two thousand eight. The financial crisis

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Speaker 1: is definitely a big factor in this, particularly on the

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Speaker 1: pace side. The reason why millennials have had or a

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Speaker 1: large part of the reason why millennials have had such

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Speaker 1: a bad time in their twenties is because they had

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Speaker 1: the unfortunate experience of graduating into an enormous pay squeeds

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Speaker 1: into an enormous recession. But actually, we think there are

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Speaker 1: signs that this isn't all about the financial crisis. So

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Speaker 1: even if we look at those early millennials that were

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Speaker 1: entering the labor market in the mid two thousand's, so

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Speaker 1: before the crisis, when things are actually looking pretty good,

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Speaker 1: they were still failing to make earnings gains on the

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Speaker 1: sort of cohorts fifteen years before them. So some of

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Speaker 1: this kind of stagnation picture it seems to predate the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis, and so when we think about the future,

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Speaker 1: obviously we'd expect a lot of the effects of the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis to unwind incoming years, although the UK economy

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Speaker 1: looks like it might be about to experience a new

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Speaker 1: wave of uncertainty in relation to the decision to leave

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Speaker 1: the EU, so some of those effects might be prolonged.

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Speaker 1: But because some of the stagnation appears to have predated

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Speaker 1: the crisis, we're concerned that without kind of detailed policy attention,

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Speaker 1: this isn't just going to be an early career blip.

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Speaker 1: It could be something that blights the millennials throughout their

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Speaker 1: working lives. And that's one of the reasons for kind

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Speaker 1: of our elevation of this issue and our big project

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Speaker 1: on it. So let's get to the policy question. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that we the economy may need detailed policy attention

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Speaker 1: on these issues. What policies were put in place or

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Speaker 1: what decisions were made that, in your view, contributed to

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Speaker 1: this um downturn in various financial and economic measures. There's

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Speaker 1: definitely no one thing, and and it should be said

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Speaker 1: that some of the challenges around intergenerational furnace aren't We

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily point the finger at policy. We might point

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Speaker 1: to a demographics. So a lot of the challenges in

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Speaker 1: our welfare states, our economies are labor markets, comes from

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Speaker 1: the fact that some birth cohorts are just much bigger

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Speaker 1: than others. And the reason why the baby beamers are

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Speaker 1: called the baby beam is this because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. There's this massive birth spike in the post

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Speaker 1: war years um and and that drives a lot of

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Speaker 1: the challenge. So it's very difficult for policy to deal

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Speaker 1: with those uneven cohort sizes. So we do need to

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Speaker 1: look at the role of demographics and how we can

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Speaker 1: better kind of plan and plan for future welfare spending

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Speaker 1: in light of that. But there are also other policy

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Speaker 1: choices in the UK that have contributed to this picture.

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Speaker 1: So in the labor market, we might point to our

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Speaker 1: consistent failure in the UK, not just pointing the finger

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Speaker 1: at one specific government this is a decades long thing,

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Speaker 1: but our consistent failure to offer a solid, dependable career

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Speaker 1: route for the fifty of young people who don't who

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Speaker 1: decided not to go to university. I think I've heard

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Speaker 1: similar messages from the u S as well. So skills

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Speaker 1: for non graduates is a huge failing house building. For

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Speaker 1: years and years and decades we've failed to build enough houses,

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Speaker 1: and which is one of the reasons why the generational

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Speaker 1: housing crisis I've described exists on pensions. Decisions made to

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Speaker 1: UM insufficiently fund these final salary pension schemes in the

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Speaker 1: nine eighties and nine nineties have led to huge deficits

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Speaker 1: now which kind of current generations are working to pay off,

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Speaker 1: and on the welfare state. In the austerity we've had

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Speaker 1: in the UK in recent years, UM there's been a

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Speaker 1: very clear decision to protect pension of benefits and bring

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Speaker 1: in quite big cuts to working age benefits. So there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of areas where public policy does seem to

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Speaker 1: have exacerbated rather than ameliorated, the hand dealt by demographics,

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Speaker 1: if you like, Well, what's the appetite to introduce new

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Speaker 1: policies that might tip the balance back in favor of

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Speaker 1: a younger generation, and particularly given that baby boomers in

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Speaker 1: particular still forms such a huge, huge part of the population,

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Speaker 1: and it seems if we're talking about democracies and they

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Speaker 1: have the upper hand in terms of introducing new rules

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Speaker 1: and policies that could change things. Well, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a really important question to ask. And the

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Speaker 1: thing that we often hear is, um, Okay, we get

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Speaker 1: your star's your your charts are excellent. We understand the

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Speaker 1: problem you're um, you're describing, but there's there's nothing we

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Speaker 1: can do about it because of exactly the reasons you suggest.

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Speaker 1: The baby boomers there's lots of them, and they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're quite good at turning out to the polling stations

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Speaker 1: when we have elections. So so it's kind of painted

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Speaker 1: as a politically intractable issue and we don't think that's true.

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Speaker 1: We don't um. You sort of use the word war

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of this piece, and I actually we

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Speaker 1: don't think that that's how different generations really see each

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Speaker 1: other in society. We think if you look at transfers

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Speaker 1: in the fact, within the family, you can see generations

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Speaker 1: with huge willingness to help each other out. And even

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Speaker 1: if you look at really tough questions like attitudes to

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Speaker 1: house building in the UK, we're seeing attitudes shifting. So

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Speaker 1: traditionally the baby boomers have been very anti building houses

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Speaker 1: in their local area because it might affect the value

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Speaker 1: of their own assets. But even in kind of four

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Speaker 1: four year period between twenty and fourteen, their appetite for

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Speaker 1: local house building doubled, so it went from about a

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Speaker 1: utra of them saying they were up to it to

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Speaker 1: over half and that's just over four years. So I

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Speaker 1: think as this crisis becomes more and more stark, public

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Speaker 1: attitudes are definitely shifting towards a renewed look at the

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Speaker 1: social contract that that deals a better hand to all generations.

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Speaker 1: In turn, so for the younger generation that means a

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Speaker 1: better chance to get on the housing ladder and a

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Speaker 1: better chance a secure career. But there's also things we

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Speaker 1: need to do for the older generation, like fix our

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Speaker 1: broken social care system. So we want to look kind

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Speaker 1: of across generations in the round, and we can see

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Speaker 1: evidence that there's attitudes in society shifting towards rectifying some

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Speaker 1: of these balances. Because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: no granny wants to watch their their grandchild struggle in

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Speaker 1: the labor market, struggle to get on the housing ladder.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that metaphor stretches across society as

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Speaker 1: a whole. I want to talk a little bit further

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Speaker 1: about the housing situation, because I mean, it's also the

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Speaker 1: case in the US that homeownership braids are on the

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Speaker 1: decline and there for a lot of young people and

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Speaker 1: even young professionals, but you know, tugging here in New

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Speaker 1: York City, the idea of home ownership just seems completely

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Speaker 1: out of reach for people. It's also the case, and

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Speaker 1: various economists have talked about it, that the unequal distribution

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Speaker 1: of housing wealth is perhaps one of the biggest contributors

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Speaker 1: to inequality overall, and that housing sort of tells the

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Speaker 1: entire story. Um, how did this happen? Like when you

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Speaker 1: sort of identify, like when homeownership was this thing that

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Speaker 1: sort of everybody could access if they had a job,

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Speaker 1: to this thing that really seemed out of reach for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. Was there turning point or was

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Speaker 1: there just sort of this slow trend of higher and

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Speaker 1: higher house prices squeezing more and more people out. It's

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Speaker 1: definitely there were definitely some turning points, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not the baby Beaver's fault. They just they

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Speaker 1: just happened to come along at just the right time

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Speaker 1: on this kind of housing journey. So how am ownership

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Speaker 1: started taking off in the UK in the nineties sixties,

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Speaker 1: accelerated in the seventies and eighties. Um, the ownership took off,

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Speaker 1: but is didn't really take off, so the value of

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Speaker 1: those assets that the baby bimssic at their hands on

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Speaker 1: until the nineties and then particularly the early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: So baby memors got into the housing market through the sixties,

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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, lots of them got themselves houses, and

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Speaker 1: then a few decades later, the value of those assets

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Speaker 1: absolutely shot through the roof, so suddenly they're a lot wealthier.

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Speaker 1: And then, um, the reason why the value of those

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Speaker 1: assets were shooting through the roof was because we weren't

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Speaker 1: building enough home so the product was becoming more scarce.

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Speaker 1: And then the kind of third phase in that journey

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Speaker 1: was what happened around the financial crisis in this country,

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Speaker 1: which is that we as reflecting on many of the

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Speaker 1: causes of the financial crisis, we created much stricter criteria

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Speaker 1: for mortgage lending, so the deposit requirements to get on

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Speaker 1: the housing ladder became much much bigger, which meant they're

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Speaker 1: not only our houses are lot more expensive, but that

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Speaker 1: young people looking to buy a house needs to get

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Speaker 1: a much bigger proportion of that cost together in order

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Speaker 1: to be able to get a mortgage and and get

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Speaker 1: into her home ownership themselves. So those kind of phases

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Speaker 1: of development in the housing market in the UK have

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Speaker 1: all been kind of timed just right for the baby

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Speaker 1: Boomers and and really turned quite badly for the millennials.

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Speaker 1: It sort of speaks to the luck involved in accumulating wealth.

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Speaker 1: Right if you're around at the right place at the

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Speaker 1: right time, you can find yourself with you know, a

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Speaker 1: pretty normal blue collar job, but owning two properties that

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Speaker 1: eventually shoot up in wealth, and then suddenly you've kind

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Speaker 1: of got it made. But they don't seem to be

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Speaker 1: obvious policy solutions to that sort of generational luck. There aren't,

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Speaker 1: but there are there are. There are very clear policy

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Speaker 1: decisions kind of underlying that luck. So I would say

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Speaker 1: it's I would say the baby boomers were lucky and

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Speaker 1: being part of a cohort that kind of experience all

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Speaker 1: these things, But it wasn't an accident. There were policy

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Speaker 1: decisions in this country to not continue the levels of

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Speaker 1: house building we had in the nineteen fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 1: for example, which which underpinned a lot of the subsequent

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Speaker 1: trends I described. So, yes, it's it's messy. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of luck involved. The generations involved were not necessarily

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Speaker 1: the masters of their own destiny and shouldn't be blamed

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Speaker 1: for what's happened. But we should look very critically at

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Speaker 1: the public policy choices that kind of led to these outcomes,

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Speaker 1: because it wasn't just an accident um that there were

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Speaker 1: some very clear decisions about what we do in the

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Speaker 1: housing market, what are planning policy does, what what we

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Speaker 1: how we controlled by the rents and things like that

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Speaker 1: that have kind of led to the housing situation young

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Speaker 1: people face today. So, Laura, you mentioned Brexit briefly, Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the voting outcome there, because that seemed a

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Speaker 1: really clear example of a generational divide. Was that with

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Speaker 1: younger people usually voting to stay in the European Union

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Speaker 1: and older people voting to get out. Was that a

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Speaker 1: reflection of the different economic experiences between the generations. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a sort of understanding the reasons behind the

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Speaker 1: Brexit voters, Like the million dollar question in the UK

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Speaker 1: the moment. But you're right to highlight the very very

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Speaker 1: clear differences by age, and I think actually the differences

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Speaker 1: between different age groups are bigger than the differences between

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Speaker 1: different geographies kind of different um political affiliations. It's it's

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Speaker 1: one of the clearest device you can see when when

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Speaker 1: analyzing the Brexit vote. UM. I think to some extent

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Speaker 1: it reflects the fact that older generations are what we

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Speaker 1: might say excluded and sorry insulated from the consequences of Brexit.

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Speaker 1: So if they're out of the labor market, if they

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Speaker 1: own their own homes already, then even if there is

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Speaker 1: some economic term or to come, is kind of unlikely

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Speaker 1: to affect them because they're they're not as actively engaged

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Speaker 1: in the economy as younger people. But there's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of non economic reasons, which which others have talked

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Speaker 1: about much more eloquently than me, that have driven this.

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Speaker 1: But our kind of position on this on the Brexit

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Speaker 1: vote is that it's it's happened now and the UK

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Speaker 1: is in the process of charting its course through leaving

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Speaker 1: the EU, and we need to make the best job

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Speaker 1: of that we can. But we also need to reflect

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Speaker 1: on the concerns of those who might feel that their

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Speaker 1: voices haven't been heard, largely the younger generations, and and

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Speaker 1: look at what we can do to to reunite the country,

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Speaker 1: if you like, reunite our divided nation. And I think

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Speaker 1: addressing some of the intergenerational challenges I've highlighted is a

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Speaker 1: crucial challenge for the new government and the new Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister if she wants to heal some of the divides

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Speaker 1: that the whole process of going through the referendum has

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Speaker 1: opened up. And it was really really welcome in our

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Speaker 1: new prime minister to reason Maze first couple of speeches

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Speaker 1: as Prime Minister, or just before she she she won

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Speaker 1: the contest, she she highlighted the intergenerational challenges I've been

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Speaker 1: talking about more than once. So there's I think I've

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Speaker 1: talked about, you know, maybe attitude softening and maybe they're

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Speaker 1: being the possibility for policy change in this area, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that the new government has put the issue

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Speaker 1: front and center is a signal that we think that

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Speaker 1: the time for addressing these intergenerational challenges in the UK

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Speaker 1: has come. So the Brexit vote creates a challenge but

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Speaker 1: also an opportunity to think about how we can bring

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Speaker 1: the generations back together. Yeah, it does seem as though

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Speaker 1: there's been a little bit of a shift on all

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Speaker 1: sides of many um many spots on the political spectrum,

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Speaker 1: just sort of questioning the sort of particular strand of

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Speaker 1: sort of free market financial capitalism that we've seen in

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Speaker 1: recent years. Obviously everyone has different critiques, but it feels um,

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Speaker 1: you know, listening to Theresa May, that people are questioning

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Speaker 1: some of the orthodoxies for the last several years. That's

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, I think. I think having um at the

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Speaker 1: point in which we're going through such a huge political

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Speaker 1: change as leaving the EU, is it's absolutely right to

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Speaker 1: to think critically about the model we have, the economic model,

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Speaker 1: of the political model, and and and who that might

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Speaker 1: be working for and who it might not be. So

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Speaker 1: so a lot of that comes through the generational debate.

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Speaker 1: But we've also heard Thereason May talk a lot in

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Speaker 1: these first in this first month or so about looking

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Speaker 1: at industrial strategy being a real big pillar of her

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Speaker 1: economic policy. Now what that she means. It could be

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Speaker 1: a number of different things, but it's not something that

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about in this country for years or

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Speaker 1: even decades, and it was an idea that was very

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Speaker 1: much out of voke. So there's kind of interventionist approached

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Speaker 1: the economy. That industrial strategy might signify. A real appetite

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Speaker 1: to do something in the housing market that serves the

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Speaker 1: needs of young, younger generations. To kind of actively intervene

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Speaker 1: as a government rather than letting market forces play out

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Speaker 1: is definitely coming through in the in the rhetoric of

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Speaker 1: the new government at least, and we're we're waiting to

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Speaker 1: see kind of what's for what follows that in terms

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Speaker 1: of concrete policy decisions. Laura, thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us today. My pleasure. Well, Tracy, did that satisfy your

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Speaker 1: hunger for intergenerational warfare and conflict? Uh? Not really, to

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Speaker 1: be honest. So I think I take issue with the

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Speaker 1: notion that generations are softening in terms of their um

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Speaker 1: dislike for each other or dislike for policies that would

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Speaker 1: help the next generation down. So I mean, having lived

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Speaker 1: in London and having rented from a baby boomer landlord

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Speaker 1: with multiple properties, I just don't see any massive change

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Speaker 1: in attitude coming where suddenly the baby boomer generation says,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, you know, we've really kind of cost you

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Speaker 1: guys a lot and now we're gonna change everything up.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't have kids. Uh maybe

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Speaker 1: people feel differently about it once they have children, But

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Speaker 1: I think when it just comes to their own self interest,

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Speaker 1: it's really difficult to surmount that for something intangible like

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Speaker 1: the future the benefits of the future generation In so,

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Speaker 1: you're condemning an entire generation because of one landlord you

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Speaker 1: didn't like. Yeah, is that what I'm taking evidence based?

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Speaker 1: But in all seriousness, I think this report is really

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Speaker 1: important and I feel like it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: major topic for a long time to come. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously Laura expressed some optimism about change, but

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Speaker 1: these issues with who is owed what when it comes

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Speaker 1: to pensions and just how expensive housing has gotten for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, they strike me as gigantic problems.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's the direct result of conflict or just a

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Speaker 1: cumulative policy decisions overall. Uh, they seem to be enormous issues, right,

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Speaker 1: And there's an intractable human problem to this as well,

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Speaker 1: which is that everyone wants to get more out of

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Speaker 1: the system than they put in. Right, that's just kind

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Speaker 1: of human nature. So it seems like it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a really really tough problem to solve of and uh,

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling economists are going to be looking

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Speaker 1: at this as sort of evidence of self interest in

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Speaker 1: various other things for years. And it's not just that

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Speaker 1: people want more, because to me, it's that a people

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Speaker 1: want more, but be they're always measuring themselves against other

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Speaker 1: people at the same time. So even if they get

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Speaker 1: more but someone else gets even more, that might be unsatisfying.

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Speaker 1: And people are always measuring themselves against what they expect

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Speaker 1: in life. So if you expected a certain pension, or

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Speaker 1: if you expected to be able to make a certain amount,

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Speaker 1: even if you get more but it wasn't as much

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Speaker 1: as you expected, you might be unhappy. So there's all

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Speaker 1: kinds of sort of behavioral elements taking place, I think,

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Speaker 1: and in terms of how our minds work, that make

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Speaker 1: these problems harder to solve as well. Right, it's all relative.

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Speaker 1: Um on that very cheerful notes, Very great. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that was fun, fun conversation. All right, thanks everyone for listening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracey Alloy. You can follow me on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Tracy Halloway and I'm Joseph wi Isn't though. You can

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Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at the stalwart until next