Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're always on Island time.
Speaker 1: I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the Chris Wesseling podcast studio,
Speaker 1: and it's a full house because it's a QB Island Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Connie Fox, Colleen Wolf. To my right, Steve Weisch, and
Speaker 1: Jordan Rodriege of The Athletic. How are we doing here
Speaker 1: for the season finale of America's favorite program.
Speaker 2: I've been waiting all season for it.
Speaker 3: Okay, you aren't even here for the lay I think, well,
Speaker 3: I was waiting to see how you're going to change
Speaker 3: the rules on the fly again.
Speaker 4: Thank you Steve for saying there's a lot of feedback
Speaker 4: about this.
Speaker 1: Okay, I know I got grief upstairs. I got grief.
Speaker 3: Why did you get grief?
Speaker 1: They were saying because someone was pitching Bryce Young as
Speaker 1: a potential QB Island resident. I said, yeah, we should
Speaker 1: absolutely talk about Bryce Young. He's like, well, if you're
Speaker 1: talking about like right now, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I was thinking it's maybe it's the last one of
Speaker 1: the season. I think this should be a document for
Speaker 1: the entire season. And then multiple people are like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you got to make up rules and stick
Speaker 1: to them. You got you never stick to the rules
Speaker 1: or whatever, and people have feelings. I've been getting that
Speaker 1: grief from Jordan as well.
Speaker 4: Yes, every week we do this, something new just sort
Speaker 4: of emerges in terms of whether that's the fun of it,
Speaker 4: just whether it's the parameters of how we're judging these
Speaker 4: guys changes. You know, first we started with whatever you want,
Speaker 4: right and who is defining quarterback play right now? Those
Speaker 4: are Greg Rosenthal's.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Then it was a four game sample size.
Speaker 1: It was never a four games.
Speaker 3: It also was Jordan, you can't be hurt and beyond
Speaker 3: here either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that became something It was a long time and great.
Speaker 1: So I think for this one, I have always said
Speaker 1: anyone can interpret interpret it however they want, but I
Speaker 1: do think this is the last one of the season
Speaker 1: because some of these quarterbacks can't play anymore, and it'd
Speaker 1: be good to have a document of the season. And
Speaker 1: it was never a four game sample. It was just
Speaker 1: you've said it on the show, you have.
Speaker 2: What I mean is like we've we fluid competition here, Like.
Speaker 1: We only are talking in four week chunks. So it
Speaker 1: was like you're adding that new four week sample to
Speaker 1: the overall picture and you're maybe giving a little more.
Speaker 4: Wait a week sample size to argue for or against.
Speaker 1: We have stuff to get to, we have news, we
Speaker 1: wanted to do.
Speaker 2: Ken he here, you're breaking up. He has to call
Speaker 2: you back.
Speaker 4: Oh my mic kind of someone cut the corner of
Speaker 4: my mic.
Speaker 1: All. We wanted to do QB Island for the whole show,
Speaker 1: but NFL was NFL in and frankly, life is lifeing
Speaker 1: and I already feel better with the camera turney on
Speaker 1: and talking to you guys and talking about QB Island.
Speaker 1: Then we did a half an hour ago watching these
Speaker 1: wildfires in the Palisades, uh, not not far from us.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: And so we were hoping to tape this show and
Speaker 1: get out of here. But yes, Jordan, like, I got
Speaker 1: in here nice and early to do a lot of
Speaker 1: prep and stuff today, and it's like I have not
Speaker 1: been doing any prep, worrying about friends and just what's
Speaker 1: going on in this.
Speaker 4: Jordan looks like, yeah, I will say too, like I
Speaker 4: learned something really cool about Greg today, And I genuinely
Speaker 4: mean this. Greg, Like when one person is panicking slightly
Speaker 4: and like clutching their sternum, the other person gets really
Speaker 4: really calm, And Greg was really really calm. Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: I was in those situations, being somewhat in the vicinity.
Speaker 1: Of these things. Yes, And I had just gotten off
Speaker 1: the phone with my wife, who I was the one
Speaker 1: more freaking out and being like, you got the waters
Speaker 1: in the car and we're ready to like transfer here.
Speaker 4: Thank you Emica. Yeah, because she's the reason why that
Speaker 4: calm transferred to me.
Speaker 1: Yes, So we will. We will talk a little news,
Speaker 1: we'll get the QBI, and then we'll get out of
Speaker 1: here and make sure everyone is safe in West LA. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, the job status of a lot of people,
Speaker 1: they are not safe, including their head coach, and Antonio
Speaker 1: Pierce was fired on Tuesday. When we talked on Monday
Speaker 1: Show with being appaport, he made it clear no one
Speaker 1: really knows what's going on there. Antonio Pierce is acting
Speaker 1: like he feels like it's safe. He did his press
Speaker 1: conference as normal, but we learned on Tuesday Mark Davis,
Speaker 1: after consulting people around him, including you know, minority owner
Speaker 1: Tom Brady, decided to make the decision to change coaches.
Speaker 1: Antonio Pierce Steve is out after only one full season.
Speaker 1: He was the interim in twenty twenty three, and Tom Telesco,
Speaker 1: the general manager, is staying at least for now.
Speaker 3: For now, for now. I mean, look, it's it's the Raiders.
Speaker 3: We don't know when you know, they could have delayed
Speaker 3: reaction like that. They didn't have to let Antonio Pierce
Speaker 3: go out there and do that press conference. Yes, yep,
Speaker 3: they they knew they were doing this. You heard, you've
Speaker 3: heard for weeks that he's likely gonna be wanted done.
Speaker 3: Oh you know, there we had the cover of him
Speaker 3: winning what his final few games. You know, Mark Davis
Speaker 3: is excited about that they're not gonna have the first
Speaker 3: overall pick, but they don't care about all this stuff.
Speaker 3: And then let him go and this again no surprise. Uh,
Speaker 3: it's but I mean, he would you expect? I mean,
Speaker 3: honest things can be true, correct, Yeah, I mean what
Speaker 3: did you expect that of this team? They had no quarterback?
Speaker 3: What skill position? Guys other when they start the season
Speaker 3: they had Davante Adams once he was like who threat
Speaker 3: the whole season? What did you expect? It was the
Speaker 3: same thing in New England. This was a rebuild with
Speaker 3: no quarterbacks. Were you expecting to make the playoffs? They competed.
Speaker 3: Now I'm not saying that. There may be other reasons
Speaker 3: why they wanted wanted to get rid of Antonio Pierce,
Speaker 3: but this, I'm just gonna say this, coming on the
Speaker 3: heels of ran Carthon, the GM of Tennessee getting fired
Speaker 3: after two years. And I said it the other day
Speaker 3: on air. Look the frustration for a lot of minority coaches.
Speaker 3: They don't get the patients of some other coaches. They
Speaker 3: don't get that Joe Judge patience, right, and so two
Speaker 3: to one and done in coaches with Geradmeo and Antonio appears.
Speaker 3: Ran Carthon tightened. You get the first overall pick and
Speaker 3: they blow them out. Okay, so you're gonna understand my
Speaker 3: phones are blowing up. You're gonna understand why a lot
Speaker 3: of people black coach and so saying this is when
Speaker 3: we tell our kids this, We tell everyone this. You
Speaker 3: can't make a mistake. They're not as patient with us
Speaker 3: as they are with others. Again, there may be legitimate
Speaker 3: reasons right here, but optics are everything, and look at
Speaker 3: the organizations. It just is what it is. I just
Speaker 3: want to see how they replace him. It is interesting
Speaker 3: that Telesco still has his job, that Elliot Wolf still
Speaker 3: has his job. You know in that situation that the
Speaker 3: guy replacing Ran Carthon was there, still has his job.
Speaker 3: But they're out. I mean so again, optics is everything,
Speaker 3: and my interpretational less optics say one thing. They may
Speaker 3: well deserve for these guys to be out, but it
Speaker 3: is what it is. I know we're starting off QB
Speaker 3: Island the episode on some stuff, but it is what
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: It was so disrespectful. I thought for too, Antonio Pierce,
Speaker 2: for them to wait this long because everyone knew it
Speaker 2: was going to happen, and everyone was just kind of
Speaker 2: looking at their phones, calling people, texting people, just waiting
Speaker 2: for the shoe to drop. And like you said, for
Speaker 2: him to go out there and do that press conference,
Speaker 2: it's just like they did him dirty.
Speaker 4: Tom Tellesco's really good at keeping his job and as
Speaker 4: the head coach gets at staff. Here are two seasons.
Speaker 4: This was obviously a similar situation situation, and Steve to
Speaker 4: your point, teams who don't know what they want exacerbate
Speaker 4: systemic issues that we know are real in this league
Speaker 4: via hiring processes. And these are teams that lack direction
Speaker 4: when they brought people on board, lack direction when they
Speaker 4: let them go. And it's a thin coaches market too.
Speaker 4: There's a couple of strong candidates. We know this, but
Speaker 4: talking to agents, coaches agents around the league this they
Speaker 4: consider this even with their own clients, they consider this
Speaker 4: to be a thin coach and GM hiring market and
Speaker 4: the ones. It also explains why the ones who are
Speaker 4: staying patient, who have the luxury of patients at Joe
Speaker 4: Shane and a Brian Dable for example. It explains in
Speaker 4: part as to why Mara is comfortable staying patient. This
Speaker 4: is considered to be a thin market.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ian mentioned how owners amongst themselves were talking about
Speaker 1: how expensive it is to have this dead money of
Speaker 1: all these staffs because it's not just the head coach. True,
Speaker 1: you're placing a lot of people. And is this the
Speaker 1: smart thing to do? Mark Davis for a long time,
Speaker 1: Mark Davis not afraid of that. I mean, he is
Speaker 1: paying multiple staffs and you're so right about not knowing
Speaker 1: what they want because like Telesco wasn't even there when
Speaker 1: Antonio Pierce was hired. Correct, he was an assistant and
Speaker 1: just a small point on Telesco and Ellie Wolf. We'll
Speaker 1: see if they stay. You always keep the GM in
Speaker 1: which situation because you just don't know where it's going
Speaker 1: to go. But they also might end up losing their
Speaker 1: jobs or at the very least demoted. We just don't
Speaker 1: know there now. Pierce was an interesting case. I do
Speaker 1: think it was different than Mayo, at least from the outside.
Speaker 1: I think he had them playing hard and played to
Speaker 1: the level that they should play. I think Girod Mayo
Speaker 1: was uniquely struggling with the front facing portions of the job,
Speaker 1: with the media and with his own players, losing respect
Speaker 1: of both at a level that, like I've said on
Speaker 1: this show, reminded me a lot of Freddie Kitchens and
Speaker 1: oh yeah, reminded me a lot of Nate Hackett. And
Speaker 1: I think he was in a he had a uniquely
Speaker 1: bad year. I think Antonio Pierce has done a good
Speaker 1: job since he took over on balance, Well what did
Speaker 1: you possibly expect?
Speaker 2: Look at what he's working, right, I.
Speaker 1: Talk about a lot on this show. Actually, Like I
Speaker 1: was always impressed watching the Raiders that they like they're
Speaker 1: always in these games. They could have won a lot
Speaker 1: more they did win, like they won four even that
Speaker 1: Chargers game, they're leading until late in the second quarter.
Speaker 1: Like we'll see if the Texans play him that tight
Speaker 1: on Saturday.
Speaker 4: That can be true, and that is true, and it also,
Speaker 4: unfortunately is true that they're clearly looking for an improvement
Speaker 4: of that. There also was a somewhat seismic although they're
Speaker 4: going to pretend it's a very small percentage, but a
Speaker 4: seismic shakeup within that quote unquote ownership group. They have
Speaker 4: somebody new who's going to be making decisions. That's Tom Brady,
Speaker 4: who's going to be having input and insight into the
Speaker 4: future direction of this franchise, including which quarterback that this
Speaker 4: story eventually take.
Speaker 2: Mark Dave is going to be listening to him too.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure he's a number one guy. He's
Speaker 3: going to be seeking input.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really feel for Pierce, but there were
Speaker 1: distractions with this team and he he had a major distraction.
Speaker 1: It was a big story in training camp, the bankruptcy
Speaker 1: filing that Antonio Pierce ultimately was responsible for tens of
Speaker 1: millions of dollars in a civil judgment that we don't
Speaker 1: need to go back to get into deep here, but basically,
Speaker 1: he by all accounts, got got involved in a business
Speaker 1: that was not on the up and up. Whatever his
Speaker 1: involvement was it was a huge distraction for him, and
Speaker 1: people around that team noted that the difference in when
Speaker 1: they broke for OTAs in mini camp before that, and
Speaker 1: when he came back, and it was a little bit
Speaker 1: of a different Antonio Pierce, a little more muted and
Speaker 1: a difficult thing in his life that he's dealing with
Speaker 1: with his family at the same time, and that might
Speaker 1: have been part of all of.
Speaker 4: This, And again that can also be one of the
Speaker 4: many truths here. I think about assistance like Patrick Graham,
Speaker 4: who has done a stellar job coordinating that defense year
Speaker 4: over year and staying the course despite a lot of
Speaker 4: shakeup in that building and a lot of changes in
Speaker 4: that building, and he is somebody who should and in
Speaker 4: my opinion, deserves to get interviews at least be talked
Speaker 4: about in the conversation of head coaches. But you think
Speaker 4: about all of the assistants, you think about the coordinators,
Speaker 4: you think about the tenured players on teams such as this.
Speaker 4: Max Crosby comes to mind, who was very vocal back
Speaker 4: when they were deciding whether to give Antonio Pierce the
Speaker 4: full time tag after being the interim head coach. Max
Speaker 4: Crosby was very vocal about who he wanted his coach
Speaker 4: to be. And you know, going from McDaniels to and Pisachi,
Speaker 4: I mean he's thriving. Good for him, you know, and
Speaker 4: then going into I mean it all started with a
Speaker 4: star John Grue.
Speaker 2: Think about how many coaches they've had just since they
Speaker 2: moved to Vegas. This is now going to be their
Speaker 2: fifth head coach. So I'm looking for.
Speaker 4: Yes, and this isn't twenty twenty exactly, move there exactly.
Speaker 4: And so I do think about really strong, very very
Speaker 4: highly regarded coaches such as Patrick Graham who are kind
Speaker 4: of caught in this malstrom of.
Speaker 1: Right, I know, and they got every former head coach
Speaker 1: in the league on that staff, and you know, Marvin
Speaker 1: Lewis is there.
Speaker 4: I need to know? What I need to know?
Speaker 3: It's the Raiders, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean you talk to everyone around the league like
Speaker 3: no surprise is here.
Speaker 2: There's just certain teams that have these systemic issues and
Speaker 2: it's like the Jets are one and so are the Raiders.
Speaker 3: I mean, just the impulsive it's the impulsiveness of leadership.
Speaker 3: It is what do you want that It goes back
Speaker 3: to what you were saying, Geordan, what is it that
Speaker 3: you want. Okay, you got excited about the momentum of
Speaker 3: Antonio Pierce's interim coach. Guy smoking cigars, guys playing their
Speaker 3: tails off. Okay, what is you What are you going
Speaker 3: to give them to help build your team?
Speaker 1: Here's what you want? You want whatever Tom Brady, you
Speaker 1: want Tom Brady involved on changing your direction. And one
Speaker 1: quick thing on Patrick Graham. He actually is interviewing for
Speaker 1: the head coaching job in Jacksonville, they announced, and he's
Speaker 1: also at least was asked to interview for the defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator job in Cincinnati.
Speaker 4: Oh, he'd be a he does have to since he'd
Speaker 4: be a great.
Speaker 1: Because now I wonder if there's going to be a
Speaker 1: battle for Mike Rabel now between the Raiders.
Speaker 4: Exactly what Mirabel wants and Patriots, Tom Brady's old teammate,
Speaker 4: Brady versus craft ad war.
Speaker 1: And that brings us to the to the Rand Carthon
Speaker 1: news because Mike Rabel ultimately lost a power struggle with
Speaker 1: Ran Carthon just a year ago. Ownership favored like Rabel
Speaker 1: and Carthon did not see eye to eye, and they
Speaker 1: ultimately kept ran Carthon going into twenty twenty four, hired,
Speaker 1: Brian Callahan, fired Mike Rabel, and then Ran Carthon doesn't
Speaker 1: even get to do two full drafts there. And it's
Speaker 1: crazy to think how one transaction has changed an entire franchise.
Speaker 1: John Robinson, Yeah, the former GM trades and Tonio I
Speaker 1: mean trade with A J. Brown to the Eagles. Just
Speaker 1: weeks later he's fired. Then Mike they bring in ran Carthon.
Speaker 1: He gets in a power struggle with Rabel, Rabel gets
Speaker 1: fired and now here's ran Carthon. And this is just like,
Speaker 1: this is how bad teams stay bad.
Speaker 4: And this is the ripple effect that gives Howie Roseman's
Speaker 4: number two. What Alec Hallaby the job in Tennessee? What
Speaker 4: if that's the full circle moment here? I mean, my goodness,
Speaker 4: the Howie Roseman sitting on his throne watching the worlds
Speaker 4: that he's created across the league, and half the front
Speaker 4: offices in this damn league is with you.
Speaker 3: Brian Callahan, Now you're like, well, I'm on finn Ice here.
Speaker 3: I know they're saying I'm coming back, but you know,
Speaker 3: we have a bad team that needs a quarterback. You
Speaker 3: actually had the first overall pick, but there's a lot
Speaker 3: of things going on there right now, this is one
Speaker 3: of those things, right, I guarantee ownership is like, we've
Speaker 3: got a new stadium going up, we gotta get butts
Speaker 3: in the seats, and we got to re energize something.
Speaker 3: I mean, I trust me that came into play with
Speaker 3: this decision. So with this number one pick, let's let's
Speaker 3: really figure this out. And they said, well, we don't
Speaker 3: trust Ran with the number one pick because he drafted
Speaker 3: Will Levis and pushed for him, right, and how did
Speaker 3: that work out? Well, again, this is that.
Speaker 4: It's never one and we all know this, it's never
Speaker 4: one person. No, just pushing for it comes out conveniently
Speaker 4: this time of year, but it is never just one
Speaker 4: person pushing for the one quarterback. There were more talk
Speaker 4: let's talk. We're going to talk about them later in
Speaker 4: the show, the Bryce Young CJ. Stroud situation. Right, it
Speaker 4: was never just one person who was like this, regardless
Speaker 4: of any anyone else like this is what. There were
Speaker 4: multiple reviews, multiple perspectives.
Speaker 1: They did have a brutal free agency period.
Speaker 3: The traded it just made it a lot of the
Speaker 3: stuff and you would ask anyone like what is their plan? Lagarious?
Speaker 3: You know, Ridley going out, get Tony Pollard. Some of
Speaker 3: them worked, but.
Speaker 1: It was not going to like they spend a lot
Speaker 1: of money, a.
Speaker 3: Lot of money to build a roster, not a team,
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of there's a lot of organizations
Speaker 3: like that. They've got a nice roster, but not a
Speaker 3: good team.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if they thought that they had a
Speaker 2: quarterback like I wonder if they maybe thought that Will
Speaker 2: Levis would be a little bit better the way that
Speaker 2: he ended the season last year. So in their minds,
Speaker 2: maybe they were kind of moving forward and would have
Speaker 2: places for all of these guys and it would be
Speaker 2: a more cohesive unit. I always find it interesting when
Speaker 2: teams don't just do a clean sweep of the head
Speaker 2: coach and the GM bring them in together, make sure
Speaker 2: they get along, make sure everyone is just like cool,
Speaker 2: vibe and all right, because then there's just always some
Speaker 2: residual weirdness and you never know who. It's such an
Speaker 2: ancestual league, incestuously, so it's like you never know who
Speaker 2: has beef with who.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's they're looking at outliers when they think
Speaker 4: that they're going to be This is like goes back
Speaker 4: to you never want to be two things. You never
Speaker 4: want to not know who you are, and you never
Speaker 4: want to be the team that goes. I can fix him,
Speaker 4: or I can make them better. God, I can be
Speaker 4: an outlier. And they're looking at these outliers, for example,
Speaker 4: the less Need Sean McVay partnership. They did not come
Speaker 4: in together to that team. Less Need was already there
Speaker 4: and was a part of the hiring committee for Sean McVay.
Speaker 4: They look at these successful outliers that are not then
Speaker 4: mean throughout this league and they think we're going to
Speaker 4: be that team. We can do that, or.
Speaker 1: They don't even really look at it at all and
Speaker 1: they're just making it up as they go along and.
Speaker 2: Kind of quarterback.
Speaker 1: Yes, there is this assumption that executives have this plan
Speaker 1: when they're just freestyling well and football is not necessarily
Speaker 1: their business. Maybe they made their money in a smart
Speaker 1: way in a different business and don't know this but business,
Speaker 1: or more likely their parents made money and then got
Speaker 1: into football, which they didn't necessarily know either, and then
Speaker 1: they inherited it, and it's like, why do we expect greatness.
Speaker 3: Out of that? It's you know, look, let's go to Jacksonville.
Speaker 3: Shot Cohn, He who made his own money, one of
Speaker 3: the great true American stories of working with pulling yourself
Speaker 3: up in the bootstraps. Right, he keeps Trent Balki, who
Speaker 3: is hired, Jim Tomsula in San Francisco, Chip Kelly in
Speaker 3: San Francisco, Urban Meyer. Doug Peterson. Now this dude is
Speaker 3: on his third coaching higher situation in five years with
Speaker 3: the Jacksonville Jaguars. Why would Ben Johnson want to go
Speaker 3: there unless he can say, you know, if I'm coming,
Speaker 3: I'm bringing Ray Agnew or John Dorsey from Detroit. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like he Troy's got the best personnel staff in the NFL. Right,
Speaker 3: why wouldn't Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson go to someplace
Speaker 3: where they can somehow get these guys to build.
Speaker 2: That would make sense. I just I don't understand the
Speaker 2: Trent Balkey situation because before Doug Peterson was hired, it
Speaker 2: was like they couldn't find anyone that was interested in
Speaker 2: even taking the job because nobody wanted to work with.
Speaker 2: Trent Balkey had sounded.
Speaker 4: Like I think he gave it away in his press conference.
Speaker 4: I went back and I list it's true God press conference,
Speaker 4: I think he gave it away because Shad said, and
Speaker 4: I'm paraphrasing something to the effective, we've got eighty five
Speaker 4: other people that we've built this through. What he's actually saying,
Speaker 4: and I know that quote was parsed and reparsed and
Speaker 4: all of that on various shows, But what he's really
Speaker 4: saying is we've built in alphabet and then we've started
Speaker 4: to build books out of the alphabet of what our
Speaker 4: scouting and pro personnel department is and all of the
Speaker 4: support staff and all of the language of this ecosystem
Speaker 4: that's in place. And he doesn't want to start over,
Speaker 4: right or wrong, And I think he's wrong in keeping him,
Speaker 4: but right or wrong, that to me is what he's saying.
Speaker 4: He does not want to start from ground zero again
Speaker 4: after the entire ecosystem of that team, behind the scenes,
Speaker 4: everything but the on field product he believes is in
Speaker 4: place because of all of the little layers that go
Speaker 4: into actually building a franchise with the in terms of
Speaker 4: the league cycle of what.
Speaker 2: Shortcuts are not going to get you in.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, but General Manner's not going
Speaker 3: to come in could completely blow up her ecosystem. And
Speaker 3: let's to Bill.
Speaker 4: Belichick, if you like dismantle it though, you're gonna put
Speaker 4: in your own system. You're gonna put your own language
Speaker 4: and even the scouting, like even the scouting system and
Speaker 4: the scouting.
Speaker 1: Sure, but you could easily remove Trent Balki and it'd
Speaker 1: be fine. But not if Trend Balki is in the
Speaker 1: ear of the owner explaining that everything's gonna fall apart
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have to change everything.
Speaker 4: I'm saying they should have kept him. I'm just saying
Speaker 4: that to me, that is what he seems to believe
Speaker 4: exactly what you just said. Great, I'm not saying it's right.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, but again, but this is why I
Speaker 3: think the Giants held on to Joe Shane because you know,
Speaker 3: everyone says Brian Daball as a good coach. But if
Speaker 3: we split them up, then what GM is going to
Speaker 3: want to come here or vice for.
Speaker 1: It makes sense. I actually think keeping them both.
Speaker 3: Is better than you have.
Speaker 2: Patient applaud that.
Speaker 3: I agree, But here's the Chicago. Everyone says that's the
Speaker 3: best situation to go to, but they're keeping Ryan Poles
Speaker 3: as a general mean two for Caleb, right, but they're saying,
Speaker 3: you know, again, why would you necessarily want to go
Speaker 3: there when it's clear that Ryan Poles and Kevin Warren,
Speaker 3: the team president, have a very strong relationship. Why would
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson want to go there? Yeah, and go there
Speaker 3: for the quarterback, But don't you want to go there
Speaker 3: with someone who you know who has your back again,
Speaker 3: with a re Agne, with a John Dorsey, someone on
Speaker 3: that personnel.
Speaker 2: Staff in Detroit, especially as a first time head coach.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think it's possible. You hear things about Ben
Speaker 4: Johnson and what he's interested in, like kind of what
Speaker 4: how his workflow goes and all of that. I think
Speaker 4: it is possible. You do have the unique candidate perhaps
Speaker 4: is less interested in having full control over the entire
Speaker 4: system and more so controlling that particular element of it
Speaker 4: and being the mad scientist and kind of cooking in
Speaker 4: that way.
Speaker 1: Well, he interviewed with the Patriots Go give it to
Speaker 1: the go get it done Patriots. Surprise everyone, don't.
Speaker 3: Go back to it. He might be the backup if
Speaker 3: Rabel ends up and.
Speaker 1: Don't go back to the old stuff. They also interviewed
Speaker 1: Pap Hamilton, who was a quarterback coach of Joe. Milton
Speaker 1: was also here at NFL Network as a head coach.
Speaker 1: You hate to think it, but that feels like, yep,
Speaker 1: he's just wasting his time. There a sham interview.
Speaker 3: Because Byron left two of them one day.
Speaker 1: Byron left which as well.
Speaker 3: And just for those who don't know, if you interview
Speaker 3: two minority candidates from outside of the organization, you meet
Speaker 3: all criteria for the Ruiney rule.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I guarantee Mike Grabe will be in there by the
Speaker 3: end of the week.
Speaker 2: Now, they could be candidate's opticks either and.
Speaker 4: To follow up, real interviews take longer than half a.
Speaker 1: Day, and they could be candidates potentially for the offensive staff.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're trying to do work there. Who really knows.
Speaker 1: We have a new opening, and I don't think we're
Speaker 1: all totally done here. I think there are situations around
Speaker 1: the league, like we don't know about Dallas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're never done right, this is quickly.
Speaker 1: I've got my eye on New Orleans where locally they
Speaker 1: are assuming that Mickey Loomis is going to be hiring
Speaker 1: this head coach, and I just just keep an eye
Speaker 1: on that.
Speaker 3: I think, oh, what do you know?
Speaker 1: I don't know anything, But I'm just saying the.
Speaker 4: People who know something based on the fact.
Speaker 1: All I need to know is that they fired the
Speaker 1: head coach against Mickey Loomis's wishes, and then he released
Speaker 1: a statement essentially announcing it was against his and I
Speaker 1: know he's been there a long time. But maybe you
Speaker 1: can move them along to co executive vice president of
Speaker 1: Benson Enterprises. But it has nothing to do with making
Speaker 1: football decisions. With the Saints, we'll see. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's a very periphial organization. It really really is, because
Speaker 3: they run the Pelicans as well.
Speaker 1: Right, you could give him, you can give him a promotion,
Speaker 1: you can give him more mad but not involved.
Speaker 3: No, he's very involved.
Speaker 1: We'll see basketball. Let's take a quick break. We got
Speaker 1: to get to QB Island. But that was a great
Speaker 1: conversation between three really smart people and myself back on
Speaker 1: quarterback Island.
Speaker 2: At a minute, I was crush, he's not talking, she
Speaker 2: was so.
Speaker 5: Twelve of the NFL's finest quarterbacks have left the comfort
Speaker 5: of their stadiums and luxury suites for.
Speaker 3: The adventure of a lifetime.
Speaker 5: These brit iron heroes are used to leading their teams
Speaker 5: on the feet, but can they outplay, out last, and
Speaker 5: out throw each other in the Ultimate Survival Challenge.
Speaker 1: You ain't everything you have with the gobains tied you man,
Speaker 1: we find a way to win.
Speaker 2: The no matter what.
Speaker 5: The stakes are high and the competition is fearce only
Speaker 5: one can claim the title of the Ultimate survivor. Who
Speaker 5: will rise to the top and who will be sacked?
Speaker 1: They wrote me off, I ain't right back though, that's
Speaker 1: the problem.
Speaker 3: Al right back, let's go.
Speaker 5: This is Quarterback Island.
Speaker 1: Oh well, they'd be writing back to Tino today. We'll
Speaker 1: have to find out one of the big questions we
Speaker 1: are going to answer on the season finale of QB Island.
Speaker 1: And thanks as always to the great pipes of Randy Javins,
Speaker 1: who is now producing podcasts over at Sinclair, I believe.
Speaker 2: And now doing voiceover work.
Speaker 4: Probably he should be Yeah, he sounds so good. I
Speaker 4: remember the first day I heard that intro, and my
Speaker 4: I don't think I've had like that much joy. No,
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean no, it was a lot of joy.
Speaker 4: It's fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2: I do need to give Jordan a hook.
Speaker 1: Hal turns out when your dog got stuck behind the
Speaker 1: couch this week, Oh yeah, that's a big time.
Speaker 4: He doesn't know how to back up oh no, try
Speaker 4: to turn stall. So he turned around, he got into
Speaker 4: like a little half croissant, and he got stuck.
Speaker 1: That's got to be better even than.
Speaker 4: Play by play. You'll not believe what's happening in my
Speaker 4: house right now.
Speaker 3: Every time I think of this story and your dog,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna think of something with beep beep. I never
Speaker 3: know the joy.
Speaker 1: All right, little heart, QB Island. You haven't listened all season.
Speaker 2: It's gonna happen. We started inches away from my face.
Speaker 1: In training camp and we voted on twelve quarterbacks who
Speaker 1: would represent the position right now? Who's the best, who
Speaker 1: symbolically means the most. We started the season and we
Speaker 1: voted quarterbacks off and onto the island throughout the court
Speaker 1: of the season. Last time around, we lowered the number
Speaker 1: to ten.
Speaker 3: Who did I did? Yes, you did?
Speaker 1: The committee did before the show, the executive, you're the
Speaker 1: commit producing committee. Jordan's involved, not in that particular decision,
Speaker 1: but ten. Ten quarterbacks remained at the end of last
Speaker 1: Quarterback Island, and ten will remain into the office. Ten
Speaker 1: is a nice have a solid rule.
Speaker 4: Did you put an asterisk round number?
Speaker 3: You know why he did that? Now you know why
Speaker 3: he did that, Yes, you did.
Speaker 1: No, we talked about it. Jordan was involved in this one.
Speaker 1: Ten feels good. I like it as a document who
Speaker 1: are the ten quarterbacks that defined this regular season? So
Speaker 1: we are looking back, but you can you could choose
Speaker 1: to vote guys on and off however you want. I
Speaker 1: think it's fair to wait the end of the season
Speaker 1: more if you want, but at least how I'm operating,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the season as a whole as the
Speaker 1: most important factor. But yes, that nebulous defining the position
Speaker 1: or who's really been it this year in terms of
Speaker 1: mattering like that, that can play a party.
Speaker 4: Two wrote it down because as a Capital J journalist,
Speaker 4: it's important that we are on the record with the
Speaker 4: phrase which ten quarterbacks defined this regular season? Quote end quote,
Speaker 4: Greg Rosenthal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, got it. But I also I'm saying more. I'm
Speaker 1: saying my number one thing is who is the best ultimately?
Speaker 1: But that is part of the equation. Maybe to split
Speaker 1: some hair.
Speaker 3: I love this. I love this.
Speaker 1: Okay, So last time we left ten guys on and
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read their names quickly and then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna suggest I actually think we have a lot of
Speaker 1: guys that are safe. Yes, you can watch on YouTube.
Speaker 1: We've got the graphic up. It was Joe, Josh Allen,
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow in no particular order other than alphabetical, Jade
Speaker 1: and Daniels, Sam Darnold, Jared Goff, Justin, Herbert Lamar, Jackson,
Speaker 1: Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, and Gino Smith.
Speaker 2: The next Quarterback Island. We will rank them in order
Speaker 2: of talent.
Speaker 4: That makes me feel sweaty.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, Jordan did come up with Quarterback Island.
Speaker 1: She is the originator and.
Speaker 4: I watched its spiral out of all of my control.
Speaker 1: Part of it was you didn't want to rank guys,
Speaker 1: you just wanted to, but ultimately making ten, it is
Speaker 1: ranking at least around ten. Nine to ten. Now we
Speaker 1: could talk about some of these guys a little bit,
Speaker 1: although we spent a lot of time already talking coaches.
Speaker 1: I actually think there are some tears here, but I
Speaker 1: personally think seven quarterbacks are going to be on without
Speaker 1: a lot of discussion, and so I'm just going to
Speaker 1: read them and if you guys disagree at the end
Speaker 1: of it, you can disagree with whatever you want, and
Speaker 1: then we could vote if you want. I think that
Speaker 1: the top four Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes have been the top four really throughout. Yes,
Speaker 1: I believe that the way Jared Goff has played all
Speaker 1: season and the way Justin Herbert put himself on this
Speaker 1: island halfway through the season and has finished the season
Speaker 1: make them really obvious that we're not even gonna debate
Speaker 1: about it, are we.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm off have a debate point on this and
Speaker 4: on Herbert just such a reminder to the listeners. He
Speaker 4: was not initially on the island because he was injured,
Speaker 4: and so once he was caught, once he was able
Speaker 4: to be on the island, we put him on the island,
Speaker 4: and he more than earned his Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he basically was halfway through the season. He had
Speaker 1: just come back and then he got hurt again and
Speaker 1: so it took a little bit.
Speaker 2: The opened up a little bit.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk about him on previous show tomorrow.
Speaker 1: My god, he's right there with those top guys, and
Speaker 1: so is GoF This is the best golf has ever played.
Speaker 1: Number seven And I did say this in the order
Speaker 1: that I would put him, and I think just I
Speaker 1: think safe. It's Jayden Daniels. I would put him, like
Speaker 1: I would do tier below those six guys, and yet
Speaker 1: in terms of consistency, in terms of numbers, in terms
Speaker 1: of defining the position, I think he's pretty am I right, I.
Speaker 2: Think he is. The Only thing I would potentially flag
Speaker 2: is that he's a rookie. We haven't seen a huge
Speaker 2: sample size. I know, we're just going by the season though,
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about last year with c J. Stroud,
Speaker 2: he would have absolutely been on the island and this
Speaker 2: year not. So it's like, I don't know, but it's.
Speaker 3: Just he's been on the island.
Speaker 2: I have rest issues here, so or.
Speaker 1: You're an nfcast fan who right didn't really.
Speaker 4: Talk now, I agree because he says of the rookie
Speaker 4: class too. He also defines the rookie class which was
Speaker 4: defined which was punctuated by a lot of really talented rookies,
Speaker 4: including the emergence of Bone next here in the second
Speaker 4: half of the season. I think that Jaden Daniels is
Speaker 4: the face of this rookie class of quarterbacks, each which
Speaker 4: had a very unique and important story, but certainly between
Speaker 4: numbers between the entire franchise just having life to it
Speaker 4: and like he was like a human like saging the place,
Speaker 4: you know, like he just he was brilliant for them.
Speaker 2: That was an organization that got out of its systemic
Speaker 2: problems Like that was like a full clean out of
Speaker 2: everything and everyone. And now look at what they have done.
Speaker 1: Now. That reminds me of that. Cliff Kingsbury had, according
Speaker 1: to the people in Las Vegas, in agreement with the
Speaker 1: Raiders at least a verbal one right to be their
Speaker 1: offensive coordinators. Right bailed to go to Washington.
Speaker 3: It would not have gone as well as what.
Speaker 1: A good move that was for him.
Speaker 3: Here's the Jade naniolsing as well. Okay, let's suppose he said,
Speaker 3: let's rest the rookie and play the veteran Marcus Mariota.
Speaker 3: Are we talking about Terry mcluurin the way we're talking
Speaker 3: about him? Are we talking about Zach Ertze the way
Speaker 3: we're talking about Look at what this guy who's done
Speaker 3: for other people, the way he's played, the way he
Speaker 3: sees the game.
Speaker 4: Lord, I've seen what you've done for others.
Speaker 2: Correct, this is like an all time rookie season.
Speaker 1: Although, to be to be fair to Cliff, I was
Speaker 1: running these numbers I was talking about of like, looking
Speaker 1: at all the stats and I at first sorted by
Speaker 1: at least fifty dropbacks. Do you know who leads the
Speaker 1: NFL in completion percentage EPA per drop back, completion percentage
Speaker 1: over expected, and success rate among all quarterbacks in the
Speaker 1: NFL with at least fifty drop backs. No, but it's
Speaker 1: it's on his team, Marcus Mariota, who's had exactly fifty dropbacks.
Speaker 6: I was like, what is Heah, I'm just saying I'm
Speaker 6: not putting them on the list, but let's give Marcus
Speaker 6: Mariota some credit mark playing three good quarters or whatever.
Speaker 1: It was. Oh my god, he really. I was just
Speaker 1: like I was shocked, and I was like, okay, I
Speaker 1: need to make this like two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3: You need to get a hobby man. This is too
Speaker 3: intense if you're going deep to exactly fifty attempts to
Speaker 3: justify your metric.
Speaker 1: I just that's where I started, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is funny.
Speaker 2: Mariolnis.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I played with John Gonzales on New Year's Day morning.
Speaker 1: We started off the year healthy. Go Okay, we were
Speaker 1: in Plia Vista.
Speaker 2: Fair fine, I'll allow it.
Speaker 4: It was nice, by the way. The real answer to
Speaker 4: most of those statistics is Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, if you if you raise it up,
Speaker 1: Dudeen Daniels is right near the top of a lot
Speaker 1: of those. Okay, so we got seven. There were three
Speaker 1: more guys on the on the list that I didn't name,
Speaker 1: Jordan Love, Gino Smith, CM Darnold. I think one way
Speaker 1: we could start this is talk about those guys and
Speaker 1: potentially vote him or on or off or hold it
Speaker 1: if you guys wanted to, we could always put them
Speaker 1: back on if in the end we think they are worthy.
Speaker 1: Do you want to do? You want to get going?
Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm gonna throw out someone first that I
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be the easiest. I'm just I don't care.
Speaker 1: I actually think this won't be that hard. I don't go.
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think, Colleen about Jordan Love.
Speaker 2: Okay. I think that he should be off the island.
Speaker 2: He was one of the guys that I outlined here.
Speaker 2: I had two guys that I wanted off the island.
Speaker 2: I have three guys that I wanted in. So math
Speaker 2: doesn't really math there, But I just feel like with him,
Speaker 2: he doesn't I feel like there are guys that have
Speaker 2: more of a case to be on the island than
Speaker 2: he does. Guys like I mean, Jalen Hurts is not
Speaker 2: on this island, or like what are we doing here? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, Matthew Stafford is like a bit of a
Speaker 2: I ripped him off situation on this show.
Speaker 1: We'll get to all that, but just talking whether we
Speaker 1: want to vote Love off. Yes, you think he doesn't
Speaker 1: have as good a case?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so, I think his ceiling is among the
Speaker 4: highest of all or most of the quarterbacks that we're
Speaker 4: about to put on the island. That's his ceiling. I
Speaker 4: think his floor can be a bit lower, and it
Speaker 4: certainly has showed and it's plummeted some of his more
Speaker 4: advanced metrics. He's thirteenth in total EPA. True, but he's
Speaker 4: also thirty seventh in EPA per dropback, which would if
Speaker 4: taken by itself, which we never do, but if that
Speaker 4: was taken by itself, would not even have him in
Speaker 4: the qualifying conversation. Twenty five touchdowns, eleven interceptions, again not terrible,
Speaker 4: but if you look at, say, for example, at Jared Goff,
Speaker 4: who's thrown twelve interceptions, he's also thrown thirty seven touchdowns,
Speaker 4: and yes, Jordan Love missed some time, so we have
Speaker 4: to keep that included in the conversation. But in my opinion,
Speaker 4: while his ceiling is astoundingly high, and in fact higher
Speaker 4: than a lot of these guys that we're talking about
Speaker 4: on the island today, I do think he has some
Speaker 4: some floors this year that have hurt his case.
Speaker 1: Weill's think how we ended the season. He didn't make
Speaker 1: it through the game. He didn't play well against the Vikings.
Speaker 1: It was too little, too late in that game. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I do think the end of the season, those games
Speaker 1: are more important and so to me they weigh a
Speaker 1: little heavier, and ultimately it reminded me of guy who
Speaker 1: is great. But even when we put him on like
Speaker 1: I felt good about it, and he played well the
Speaker 1: next game against the Lions, and yet since then it's
Speaker 1: just been like, he's not at that top level.
Speaker 3: Yet here's why he's to me, he's off. Okay, what
Speaker 3: are we talking about the Packers' offensive identities right now?
Speaker 1: It's the run game.
Speaker 3: It is Josh Jacobs in the run game. That's it.
Speaker 3: End of argument.
Speaker 1: Let's vote. I have a big no. I gotta know
Speaker 1: he gone, okay, Sorry, Jordan, we got one spot open.
Speaker 1: Well that's good. Do the Geno thing? Now? Why not?
Speaker 1: What do we say? I don't. I don't even want
Speaker 1: to start on the Gino.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, as much as as much as
Speaker 3: you've been like Gino. I mean, I'm I'm teetering with Gino.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: We could all the maybes and include Hitter on it
Speaker 1: and just decide at the very end if we want.
Speaker 1: But let's at least talk about.
Speaker 4: Him now really quick before we get there. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 4: I did this really quickly on my computer, and forgive me.
Speaker 4: I was a little distracted earlier before the show, but
Speaker 4: I didn't have the right filter on Jordan Love is
Speaker 4: in fact sixteenth and EPA per drop back among quarterbacks
Speaker 4: qualifying with fifty plus dropbacks this season. I did not
Speaker 4: want to let Jordan Love okay, float away from the
Speaker 4: island with that low of a rating on.
Speaker 3: Good but still outside, still as good as Marcus Mario.
Speaker 4: Still outside the top, still outside the top. But just
Speaker 4: wanted to fact check that real quick. Anyway, continue, Greg,
Speaker 4: what were you saying about?
Speaker 3: You know, I'll reserve the boot for Gino, even though
Speaker 3: I'm very much leaning that way. He's been a radic
Speaker 3: over the past few games, but you know he has delivered.
Speaker 3: Is Oc got sacked. It's never a good sign for
Speaker 3: a quarterback and quarterback Island. But I'm just saying I'm
Speaker 3: going to keep him on the fence depending on the
Speaker 3: options to vote.
Speaker 1: People, Yeah, on the case for him, and it's really
Speaker 1: difficult is to try to take him away from the
Speaker 1: situation that he was in to just evaluate the position.
Speaker 1: In terms of defining the position. I think that's a
Speaker 1: ding for him this year. The team didn't make it there,
Speaker 1: like there.
Speaker 3: Often had no identity, like.
Speaker 2: What were they no, And it just seems like his
Speaker 2: teams they just always have a ceiling, like it's it's
Speaker 2: always like nine wins.
Speaker 1: He also threw so much that he's going to be
Speaker 1: high in the volume stats, like he's second in yard,
Speaker 1: second in touch, and high in interception. For what it's
Speaker 1: worth it, at the his turnover worthy play percentage was
Speaker 1: quite low, which would indicate like he was very good
Speaker 1: at turnover worthy play percentage, which would indicate a he's
Speaker 1: not fumbling a lot, like like a Baker who leads
Speaker 1: the league in it, or Darnold who's close and then
Speaker 1: be his interceptible balls happened to be caught more at
Speaker 1: a higher rate.
Speaker 4: So the part of the issue, and I am one
Speaker 4: million percent anti factoring wins into quarterback play against that
Speaker 4: wins are not a quarterback stat. They're a coaching stat,
Speaker 4: but they're not a quarterback stat. However, there are only
Speaker 4: a couple of quarterbacks who did not make the playoffs
Speaker 4: in a year in which quarterback Island is defining quarterback
Speaker 4: play for the season that we are going to talk about.
Speaker 4: One of them is a no brainer yes on the
Speaker 4: Island in Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2: That's exactly who I was thinking about with ga.
Speaker 4: Geno is not in the playoffs, and that's a lot
Speaker 4: of that's not his fault. So Seahawks fans like, I
Speaker 4: see you, I hear you, like, please know, I think
Speaker 4: that he's played some absolute elite quarterback this year and
Speaker 4: over the past couple of years. But if we're talking
Speaker 4: about the end Island yes right, and defining the position
Speaker 4: this year, the one quarterback in terms of whether or
Speaker 4: not they're in the playoffs that you would then comp
Speaker 4: him to is Burrow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Gino Smith is not going to be a
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow, where of course Joe Burrow doesn't have the
Speaker 2: wins to back it up. But Joe Burrow has this
Speaker 2: this quality about him where he can pull everyone up
Speaker 2: around him and he's his effort. The way that he
Speaker 2: plays it's just different. It feels like it should be
Speaker 2: game changing even though the results were not there. But
Speaker 2: he has this like it factor that I don't think
Speaker 2: Gino has.
Speaker 1: No question, they're in different tiers. I don't get you know,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna get into wins THO. Like, to me,
Speaker 1: that's an argument of like a Sam Darnold who racks
Speaker 1: up Fort Vergina. It's not an argument of that Baker
Speaker 1: Mayfield's in it. And I'm on the fence with Baker
Speaker 1: and Sam.
Speaker 4: I'm not on the fence with Baker.
Speaker 1: Baker's team won ten games and had one of the
Speaker 1: easiest schedules in the league. So to me, he gets
Speaker 1: no extra credit over Gino that they won. This to
Speaker 1: me for me personally, that he won the same amount
Speaker 1: of games as Gino. No, I know, I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: like injuries, I kind of am because to me, those
Speaker 1: two might be my last spot, Like trying to decide
Speaker 1: between the.
Speaker 3: Another ten one quarterback we're talking about later that we
Speaker 3: haven't mentioned yet.
Speaker 1: Who would that be?
Speaker 3: Oh, I will get there.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me make the case because I'm the one
Speaker 1: that obviously is gonna have to make it here for
Speaker 1: Geno in pure dropbacks, and so that's taking away RPOs,
Speaker 1: play action passes in screens second in the entire NFL.
Speaker 1: In success rate when pressured, third in the entire NFL
Speaker 1: when pressured, top five, and completion percentage over expected obviously
Speaker 1: very high in the counting stats like yards and touchdowns
Speaker 1: and completion percentage in general top ten in the league
Speaker 1: when blitzed. So that's those are stats that people in
Speaker 1: the league like to run because it tries to remove
Speaker 1: some of the situation around him some more.
Speaker 4: Stats and they can be paired with the value and
Speaker 4: ability of your receivers, which is the argument that people
Speaker 4: made last year about Brock Purty when he was really
Speaker 4: high in success rate in some of those numbers. Those
Speaker 4: are not just the quarterback in a vacuum.
Speaker 1: No question, And it's weird because the difference between him
Speaker 1: and Purty is like the Seahawks offense wasn't good. It
Speaker 1: was a below average offense. One of the reasons why
Speaker 1: dead lack thirty first in the league and starting field
Speaker 1: position twenty sixth in pass block win rate. One of
Speaker 1: the worst running running teams in the league, almost never
Speaker 1: used play actions, and when one of the worst screen
Speaker 1: teams in the league, and so he sort of was
Speaker 1: on an island. And that's just the case for it
Speaker 1: that he's that high first, second, third in success rate
Speaker 1: in these categories where you take it out. And so
Speaker 1: that's my case, and I'll show.
Speaker 4: So the listeners have the full context of his advanced
Speaker 4: metrics also ranked rank finished the season ranking twenty eighth
Speaker 4: in total EPA and twenty fifth in EPA per dropback.
Speaker 4: And again you can correlate some of that with the
Speaker 4: absolute crater of an offensive system and scheme that that
Speaker 4: team was, and a crater of an offensive line. Now,
Speaker 4: I am not holding that stuff against Gino. In the
Speaker 4: two times that I saw him play live this year
Speaker 4: and then watch his tape every week, and then two
Speaker 4: times I saw him play live, I thought he was outstanding.
Speaker 4: My favorite play of the year for him was when
Speaker 4: his pocket was collapsing last week and he did a
Speaker 4: spin move to avoid two interior defensive linemen who were
Speaker 4: about to bring him down and then stepped through the
Speaker 4: pocket and then completed the pass downfield. I think he
Speaker 4: is outstanding. I am a big Geno Smith fan. If
Speaker 4: we're talking about quarterback Island in the context of defining
Speaker 4: the position this year, then I'm I'm really on the
Speaker 4: fence with him, and it'll really have to depend on
Speaker 4: how other guys shake out.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was ready to just give up the ghosts
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what. You know what's interesting is I'm
Speaker 4: not willing to let my biases over how the last
Speaker 4: episode or you know, my bias isn't he.
Speaker 1: Getting discussed here today?
Speaker 2: Anyways, there's a lot of a lot of baggage here.
Speaker 4: I think thanks happening.
Speaker 1: It's funny though, because he is such an interesting case
Speaker 1: that obviously that they they ultimately were a little disappointed.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that game last week, even though it's against
Speaker 1: the back, it was just it just reminded me of like,
Speaker 1: my god, it just pure quarterbacking level. Do I ultimately
Speaker 1: believe he's in the top ten right now? He is
Speaker 1: on the edge. It's close, but I am leaning yes
Speaker 1: ultimately for a lot of those stats. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the other guys, let's talk about Darnold right now, because
Speaker 1: I didn't going into last week it would have been
Speaker 1: safe to say, Colleen, he might have got mentioned in
Speaker 1: that little top of the show with the first seven.
Speaker 1: He had one of the worst games. I don't think
Speaker 1: this is an opinion that any good quarterback hat all season.
Speaker 1: In Week eighteen, in the biggest moment, like that's fair.
Speaker 1: He had one of the maybe the worst week any
Speaker 1: quarterback had in the entire league last week for that
Speaker 1: to happen on Sunday night football, and happened in a
Speaker 1: similar way to ways he's lost before, where it just
Speaker 1: seemed like he froze on some level yep, and could.
Speaker 4: Not He was so off with some of those throws.
Speaker 1: And mentally kind of couldn't. He couldn't get through it,
Speaker 1: couldn't get over it. He got stuck. It's a tough last,
Speaker 1: last final statement for QB Island and puts him on
Speaker 1: the edget at least for me and because of that performance.
Speaker 2: But also it's won one game, and it was like
Speaker 2: the one game it was.
Speaker 3: Everyone's watching James a long deal.
Speaker 2: It's a huge I mean, that was a playoff game
Speaker 2: that was essentially like a play in game, it felt like,
Speaker 2: But for Sam Donald, I mean, you don't look at
Speaker 2: the resume for all of the other games of the
Speaker 2: season and how he performed. He was great in almost
Speaker 2: every single one, I would say, and then this game
Speaker 2: it was bad. This was like a little bit of
Speaker 2: the the old Sam Donald.
Speaker 3: It was. It was a trap door we've been waiting
Speaker 3: for all seasons that he didn't step on.
Speaker 1: He kind of did with the Jacksonville game. But his
Speaker 1: defense defense, they.
Speaker 3: Got him two picks deep in Linees territory and that's
Speaker 3: when he floundered. They had to kick field goals. And
Speaker 3: that's why it's like, is he going to do this
Speaker 3: in the playoffs? Right, We've got that question. But if
Speaker 3: we're talking about the island, comparing him to guys like Gino, like, no,
Speaker 3: Sam Donald on this island. I think he's got a
Speaker 3: nice place there on a nice palm tree, hanging out
Speaker 3: near Joey B. George not conding.
Speaker 4: I'm on the fence with Sam because, like I, for
Speaker 4: most of the season, his floor was so high, right,
Speaker 4: which I know, it's like I might as well put
Speaker 4: it tattooed across my forehead. At this point, his the
Speaker 4: entire point was to raise Sam Darnold's floor, and that happened,
Speaker 4: and then it even lifted his ceiling even higher. I
Speaker 4: do think that, like, if we're going to go over
Speaker 4: his resume for the entire season, I've seen a quarterback
Speaker 4: who had earned his place, at least for the first
Speaker 4: like the middle section of shows that we did before
Speaker 4: we pulled him had earned his place. Let's not forget
Speaker 4: we did pull him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had that two week stretch what are
Speaker 1: you talking about right before we did one where he
Speaker 1: really was struggle, which is.
Speaker 3: Why I was the argument for quarterback wins. It's been
Speaker 3: discussed previously, which we see where you're going.
Speaker 4: But also some of that getting pulling him off the
Speaker 4: island happened in a very less than night.
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter to the show rules. He's on the island
Speaker 1: coming into week fifteen when we last died it, yes,
Speaker 1: and actually was playing great, great, yeah, the couple weeks
Speaker 1: before this game. So to Colleen's point, it really was
Speaker 1: one game, but it is it was a big game,
Speaker 1: and it was bad enough that then you start looking
Speaker 1: at the rest of it because the rest of the
Speaker 1: statistical profile in terms of grades and turnover where you
Speaker 1: play percentage and fumbles and all that. It is kind
Speaker 1: of on the border him, Baker and Gino actually end
Speaker 1: up in the same area in a lot of things
Speaker 1: when you just take take away even the subjectivity.
Speaker 4: The red zone passing from Sam when you need him
Speaker 4: to be clutch right when you need him to define
Speaker 4: the position and define really embody all of the things
Speaker 4: that he's overcome and embody that player who Kevin O'Connell
Speaker 4: believes he is and has poured that belief in him
Speaker 4: all season. And that was like, what the third worst
Speaker 4: red zone passing performance of the season by any quarterback.
Speaker 4: And I mean it's just it's tough. It anchors him
Speaker 4: down where his floor has not sunk him all season
Speaker 4: in my opinion, but it anchors him down a little bit.
Speaker 4: But I'm not willing to overlook the full Yeah.
Speaker 1: And especially because I was saying for me person, I'm
Speaker 1: just just talking for myself. What I'm saying, it's a
Speaker 1: document for the season. That's a that's a point in
Speaker 1: his favor. Yeah, really are we going to vote?
Speaker 3: Dude?
Speaker 1: Should we hold off?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: I'd like to hold off because I want to talk
Speaker 4: about Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break, and we're going to come
Speaker 1: back and we're going to talk about Baker and maybe
Speaker 1: a little Matthew Staffer, maybe little Bryce Young who knows
Speaker 1: well at least talk about and just bring him up
Speaker 1: before we make our final vote of the season back
Speaker 1: on QB Island.
Speaker 4: It's my movie.
Speaker 1: We're making a list. We checked it twice during.
Speaker 2: The break, like five times. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Seven members of QB Island right now. Three spots somewhat open.
Speaker 1: One but Gino and Darnold remain on the island. We
Speaker 1: have not voted for it, but one is just why
Speaker 1: to open out there. So I thought I would use
Speaker 1: this point in the show to ask, does anyone want
Speaker 1: to full throatedly, you know, nominate someone that we're going
Speaker 1: to vote on to join the final QB Island of
Speaker 1: the season. Whoever jump, whoever says the name first, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about him. Come on, I know you have one
Speaker 1: bow Nicks.
Speaker 3: No one's thinking about bo We talk about defining the position.
Speaker 3: Look at the team he started off with all defense, defense.
Speaker 3: Look what he's done with them. He's elevated Courtland Sutton,
Speaker 3: He's elevated his tight endes Oh of the Denver Broncos.
Speaker 3: They are in the playoffs. Seven games with one hundred
Speaker 3: plus past rate including the final three, twenty nine touchdown,
Speaker 3: twelve interceptions, thirty seven hundred plus passing yards, a bunch
Speaker 3: of rushing yards elevate. We talk about flores, we talk
Speaker 3: about ceilings, talking about making people better. Who was thinking
Speaker 3: about the Denver Broncos as a playoff team before the season.
Speaker 2: No one.
Speaker 3: I am not capturing this.
Speaker 2: In a moment, not even the Denver Broncos.
Speaker 4: No, Sean Payton probably wasn't this.
Speaker 3: Dude, When we're talking about some of these other players,
Speaker 3: if we do not talk about Bowen Nicks in this conversation,
Speaker 3: we would be making a mistake. Now, you pud you
Speaker 3: put him.
Speaker 2: You know over, There's no Jalen Hurts in here.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll talk him next. Then he's next in line.
Speaker 4: I will say this because you're right yeah about all
Speaker 4: of this, Steve. At the same time, I don't know
Speaker 4: that I feel great about putting more than one rookie
Speaker 4: on quarterback Island.
Speaker 1: I would if he had earned it, but I don't
Speaker 1: think BIS has earned it. I would. I welcome differing opinions,
Speaker 1: even when they're wrong like this Bonicks one because it's
Speaker 1: like a participation trophy.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about it?
Speaker 1: It's a participation trophy. He's playing great and he gets
Speaker 1: to be mentioned and if if I if I squeezed him,
Speaker 1: they had the same amount of wins. Actually, how many
Speaker 1: wins did the Bronco.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a participation argument right there.
Speaker 1: Okay, if you're arguing that he's playing quarterback at a
Speaker 1: higher level, that's where I'm just going to disagree. I can,
Speaker 1: we can use whatever.
Speaker 2: Metrics, whatever criteria we want, but I.
Speaker 1: Think when you are looking at elevation, you are looking
Speaker 1: at a system that has elevated Bonix and that's what
Speaker 1: good coaching does and that and he's been great as
Speaker 1: a rookie, but when I watch him on a week
Speaker 1: to week basis, I don't see him elevating the players
Speaker 1: around him. I think the last few weeks of the
Speaker 1: season really pointed that out. The Chargers game where for
Speaker 1: a half he's struggling, the Colts game where he struggled
Speaker 1: for the whole game. The Bengals game, I think was
Speaker 1: a very typical game for him, where it's a couple
Speaker 1: big time throws and him not coming through ultimately six
Speaker 1: point seven yards per teen. He has been amazing to
Speaker 1: be a league average quarterback. But that's where I would
Speaker 1: put him. I think it's cool that we're talking about
Speaker 1: him and it makes sense, but I don't think he
Speaker 1: gets that close to the top ten.
Speaker 3: If you put him on the Seahawks, they are they
Speaker 3: any better or worse?
Speaker 1: They're worse for sure.
Speaker 4: I think I think that where he should get a
Speaker 4: bump in Steve.
Speaker 1: I think they're like five and twelve.
Speaker 4: I think where he should get a bump in Steve's
Speaker 4: argument and a bump in his favor is he is
Speaker 4: really playing over the entirety of the year, not just
Speaker 4: pieces of it, but over the entirety of the year,
Speaker 4: and including his ascension and improvement. You know, you could
Speaker 4: put him in the argument as the second best rookie
Speaker 4: quarterback this season. I agree, And that's where I think
Speaker 4: he gets to bump because for a rookie, first of all,
Speaker 4: to deal with Sean Payton as a rookie, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I saw he was like giving him, he was
Speaker 2: staffy with him.
Speaker 4: He was like he was the right person for that
Speaker 4: head coach, I think, and you can see when it works,
Speaker 4: it really really works, and I think to accomplish and
Speaker 4: ascend and play the way that he has where you
Speaker 4: can see improvement over time, I think that that gives
Speaker 4: him a point in your favor.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But just on a throw to throw basis, he
Speaker 1: is not being asked to do what these other quarterbacks
Speaker 1: are being asked to do, and his next big win
Speaker 1: in the NFL will be his first one. Give me
Speaker 1: the quality win that the Broncos had to me, they
Speaker 1: do not define the season that they won ten games
Speaker 1: against losing teams and the Chiefs backups. He had his
Speaker 1: chance in overtime to end the Bengals season and he
Speaker 1: missed two wide open throws. He had a chance to
Speaker 1: make the playoffs.
Speaker 3: How did they get to overtime?
Speaker 2: He absolutely change the ceiling with this team. I mean,
Speaker 2: a rookie quarterback coming in the expectations.
Speaker 1: He's he's been great, but top ten is too far
Speaker 1: from me. Ultimately, I guess I lean on quarterback excellence
Speaker 1: and like to me, at Jalen Hurts would would be
Speaker 1: ahead of him, a Baker would be ahead of all
Speaker 1: those guys would be ahead. So that's to me, not
Speaker 1: even Kyler, that one's close.
Speaker 4: I think I think win. It's over that argument over Kyler, Okay.
Speaker 3: So if we took off the three like you're saying, well, Ike, okay.
Speaker 1: Then in your in your that's why we we can
Speaker 1: vote and you could vote yes and try to get
Speaker 1: him through. But I am voting to know we are
Speaker 1: officially voting. Colleen volte Wolf No, Steve Weish is.
Speaker 3: A yes, I'm not using a riptide on Bone.
Speaker 4: Nicks and for New List there exactly what anybody who
Speaker 4: is about.
Speaker 1: And myself the rip tide, you can I.
Speaker 4: Don't know that I want you explaining this. I'll explain this, yeah,
Speaker 4: because you misused it last time. It is called the
Speaker 4: riptide as in a dangerous wave that washes you away
Speaker 4: from quarterback Island. And the riptide can be used one
Speaker 4: time all season by one peron. You can only use
Speaker 4: it once, and it is to literally take off a
Speaker 4: quarterback of your choosing with no argument at the end
Speaker 4: of the vote, and then you have to rediscuss anyone
Speaker 4: who didn't make it on that you would put on instead.
Speaker 2: So you pull him out to see yes, and fortunately.
Speaker 3: I used.
Speaker 1: No one really knew.
Speaker 4: Complete opposite way in which it was intended.
Speaker 1: It's a ripcord. It's a good lesson or all the
Speaker 1: kids out there, people in charge, they're just making it
Speaker 1: up as they go along. Let's talk. Let's talk. Jalen Hurts,
Speaker 1: your guy.
Speaker 2: Jalen Hurts. I mean, yes, he has a concussion right now.
Speaker 2: And I don't know what these like the changing of
Speaker 2: the goalpost here with the rules, I don't know if
Speaker 2: he's even allowed to come on to Quarterback Island. I
Speaker 2: feel like I was. Was I gone when he was
Speaker 2: voted off Quarterback Island or he had he not made
Speaker 2: it onto Quarterback Island. He amazingly has not been crazy
Speaker 2: that is disrespectful, Like he has a top five passer rating.
Speaker 2: The way that he can I mean yes, the toush
Speaker 2: push definitely. You know adds In hads some numbers for
Speaker 2: but top five and rushing touchdowns too. He's had a
Speaker 2: really good season, and of course he's surrounded by so
Speaker 2: much talent, but he's a really talented quarterback and when
Speaker 2: you look at the names on here, I would argue
Speaker 2: that he is absolutely in the top ten, if not
Speaker 2: maybe the top eight.
Speaker 3: If we talk about the Eagles offense, who do we
Speaker 3: talk first?
Speaker 1: He's flashy though, I would talk AJ Brown next, because
Speaker 1: to me, AJ Brown, if I'm doing all pro and
Speaker 1: three receivers, he is putting a J Brown on my tone.
Speaker 2: Okay, but but jal is putting it right where AJ
Speaker 2: Brown can only catch it.
Speaker 3: So Skinny Pickett's he's a low shot. But what I'm
Speaker 3: saying is if you're talking.
Speaker 1: Tanner McKee, but what, Oh my god, I don't believe.
Speaker 3: Again. I love Jalen, but when we're talking about the
Speaker 3: Eagles offense and defining the position as Jalen the first
Speaker 3: guy who comes.
Speaker 1: To mind, I think Jalen had some ups and downs
Speaker 1: in his.
Speaker 3: Overall and I am holding the original rule of play.
Speaker 1: Now here's the thing into.
Speaker 2: It's so tough to say that because Saquon Barkley is
Speaker 2: such a unique player in this entire league. If you
Speaker 2: talked about like the entire division, he would talk about
Speaker 2: Jaden Daniels, you talk about Saquon.
Speaker 4: That's the exact reason why Matthew Stafford is still being
Speaker 4: debated about as a potential Hall of Famer because he
Speaker 4: had Megatron. He had such a unique player to get
Speaker 4: the ball to and it unfortunately, it's a beautiful thing
Speaker 4: to watch, but it knocks the quarterback.
Speaker 1: Well, we haven't talked about it enough on this show
Speaker 1: because it hasn't really been Jermaine, but Jalen Hurts. His
Speaker 1: rushing value has helped Saquon Barkley quite a bit and
Speaker 1: helps his case. Also, he is one of the most
Speaker 1: valuable runners in the league, not just because of the
Speaker 1: touchbush because he is efficient when he runs. He gets
Speaker 1: first down at an incredibly high rate. And that's a
Speaker 1: value that Gino isn't giving as much that Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: isn't giving as much, although he's giving a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's certainly they're giving more than Darnold when we're comparing
Speaker 1: it to guys in this area. His rushing value is
Speaker 1: good for me. I just if he had stayed healthy.
Speaker 4: I think argument she was passing the ball among the
Speaker 4: best in the league right around the middle of the
Speaker 4: season as well. We talked about it on the show,
Speaker 4: and that was it's unfortunate. Like the rule we stat
Speaker 4: with the Herbert rule that we established the beginning of
Speaker 4: the season was that if you're hurt, you cannot be
Speaker 4: on the island. And that was the Jordan Love situation
Speaker 4: as well early on in the year, and that was
Speaker 4: the justin Herbert situation.
Speaker 2: So but I did see if he passed concussion protocol.
Speaker 1: Okay, Still, here's the thing that I think he needed
Speaker 1: to finish strong. And he does take a lot of sacks.
Speaker 1: He'd have a higher sack percentage than almost anyone on
Speaker 1: this list, and that's really important. Those are the big
Speaker 1: time negative plays other than Baker. Darnold's in that mix.
Speaker 1: But Hurts is even Hurts only attempted three hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty one passes. Yeah, that's like it's like nineteen forty.
Speaker 2: It's rockertysh you know, it's like really calling the plays.
Speaker 1: I get it, but that matters to me. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: lear more. I'm voting.
Speaker 3: No, I'm voting if you were healthy. If you were healthy,
Speaker 3: I'd probably have them one. But he's missed three game.
Speaker 1: He would have been borderline and had a good chance
Speaker 1: if he was healthy.
Speaker 4: And just what's this for Jalen on that point in
Speaker 4: terms of finishing the season strong versus not finishing the
Speaker 4: season strong. Let's talk about mother fing Bryce Young. Okay, yes,
Speaker 4: because and Craig, I know how much you early on
Speaker 4: in Quarterback Island like to use PFF in your arguments.
Speaker 4: He is the sixth highest passing grade quarterback since Week eight,
Speaker 4: according to PFF. That was when he came back from
Speaker 4: his benching. He has one hundred plus passer rating in
Speaker 4: the last three game in his last three games, fifteen
Speaker 4: touchdowns in his last nine games, and he's playing like
Speaker 4: a top ten quarterback or top eleven quarterback post Week eight. Now,
Speaker 4: I'm not necessarily arguing for him to be on the island.
Speaker 4: I have someone else who would really like to put
Speaker 4: on there, who will talk about in a minute. But
Speaker 4: I think he is one of the defining stories of
Speaker 4: this NFL, and I love it for him. I've watched
Speaker 4: this clip one hundred million times, probably over the last
Speaker 4: couple of days, that easy go ahead throw, that touchdown
Speaker 4: pass where he didn't just give us the Steph Curry,
Speaker 4: you know after he shoots the three and then turns
Speaker 4: his back and does the touchdown sign. He also gave
Speaker 4: us Jim Halpert face he found the camera and look
Speaker 4: directly love the camera.
Speaker 3: I love He gets no points from me on that
Speaker 3: because the day before I.
Speaker 4: Just I just love, but I love you. You can
Speaker 4: have Lamar's confidence if you play like Lamar Jackson every
Speaker 4: single week he's ever since I came after.
Speaker 1: A lovely b next he just isn't the same.
Speaker 4: Here's what that was at me.
Speaker 2: Here's why, Here's.
Speaker 3: Why I love you know what Bryce is done, because
Speaker 3: what do we talk about the last two years for him,
Speaker 3: He's got no weapons, yet he is carving teams.
Speaker 1: Up what he did and he's rocking the other day.
Speaker 3: He's running the ball. He's very decisive. Adam feelings have
Speaker 3: this resurgence. You know, he has elevated other players. So
Speaker 3: I love the fact that you're bringing yes.
Speaker 4: And you know what I you know what I think
Speaker 4: is beautiful too. Like he as they said, you know
Speaker 4: when we saw this at Alabama too, as decisive as
Speaker 4: he was as a passer, that sort of point guard mentality,
Speaker 4: distribute the ball, make the cool throws, and do it
Speaker 4: from a variety of different arm angles. He's also really
Speaker 4: decisive as a runner. A couple of those gains that
Speaker 4: he made over the last couple of weeks, you can
Speaker 4: see him looking for the creases. You can see him
Speaker 4: looking for how the play is going to unfold layer
Speaker 4: by layer and making the correct decision. He's playing like
Speaker 4: with a clear mind and with confidence. And I give
Speaker 4: a lot of credit to Dave Canalis and Brad Idzick,
Speaker 4: who's working with him a lot in Carolina. And I
Speaker 4: just think that this is one of the defining stories,
Speaker 4: even if we don't put him on the island. I
Speaker 4: wanted to say it. I think he is one of
Speaker 4: the defining stories of twenty twenty four at quarterback.
Speaker 2: Just think about the conversations that we were having when
Speaker 2: he was benched. It was it was like, where is
Speaker 2: he going to go from here? Is he even going
Speaker 2: to like land at all?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like I would love to go back and actually listen
Speaker 2: to some of the things that we talked about, because
Speaker 2: now seeing what he was able to do and come back,
Speaker 2: no one saw this coming.
Speaker 1: Including the Panthers. I mean what, I didn't want to
Speaker 1: play him ever again? Right, great, Like I brought.
Speaker 4: This up at the time too. One of the things
Speaker 4: that's gonna make the Panthers keep him is understanding and
Speaker 4: hearing that knowledge that like fifteen other teams wanted to
Speaker 4: trade for him, like teams were teams were calling, teams
Speaker 4: wanted to be I can fix him like they wanted
Speaker 4: to be that team, and they knew what he was
Speaker 4: capable of.
Speaker 2: I love it for him, especially after last year, just
Speaker 2: all all the love that went to c J. Stroud
Speaker 2: and you know he deserved it. But Bryce Young sat
Speaker 2: there and just got crushed. And now I know, and.
Speaker 1: Coming into this season, can he have Alex Smith's trajectory?
Speaker 1: Alex Smith one of the worst rookie quarterbacks of all
Speaker 1: time and number one overall pick. Not a ton of
Speaker 1: like physical gifts other than his speed obviously that just
Speaker 1: jump off the page. And then the second season North
Speaker 1: Turner comes in there and he just stabilized him where
Speaker 1: he's like okay and ends up having a great career.
Speaker 1: And now I'm thinking about and it's like, I could
Speaker 1: see Bryce Young having Alex Smith's career. I could see
Speaker 1: it being better. I could see it being worse too.
Speaker 1: I don't know yet, but it's a real conversation now
Speaker 1: when people are saying, well, would you take Bryce or CJ.
Speaker 1: Stre Out? Now, I think that's a fair question asked,
Speaker 1: would you take Bryce or Trevor Lawrence? Right now? I
Speaker 1: want to see more, but he really did play at
Speaker 1: that high level where I actually think I would take
Speaker 1: Bryce over Trevor Lawrence because I've seen more at Trevor.
Speaker 4: If we were still at twelve, and this is going
Speaker 4: to be Quarterback Island twenty twenty five season entering in.
Speaker 4: If we were still at twelve, I would be voting
Speaker 4: him on to the Island.
Speaker 3: That'd be great. And you know what, you know what
Speaker 3: else helps is when the Atlanta Falcons blitz you only
Speaker 3: fifteen percent after you get rid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that helps. Before that helped his matchup. He also
Speaker 1: did face a very easy schedule, so that evened out
Speaker 1: some of the receivers. But I love he always makes
Speaker 1: the right when he misses, it's in the exact right
Speaker 1: spot and he can pro that. Kid man, I'm voting
Speaker 1: now we are even about him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a nice no, it's a it's a no,
Speaker 4: but extra it's love Baker.
Speaker 1: I feel like Baker is the headliner where absolutely right now,
Speaker 1: let's let's talk Baker. Does anyone want to make the
Speaker 1: case for him?
Speaker 4: I want Baker Onland And we could go through a
Speaker 4: bunch of his notable statistics where he's top five quarterback
Speaker 4: in a lot of different areas. He's second in completions
Speaker 4: obviously that has to do with some of the volume
Speaker 4: which he's throwing, third in yards, Another thing with volume,
Speaker 4: second in touchdowns, and fourth, however, in a much more
Speaker 4: situational and holistic metric, fourth in EPA. And I think
Speaker 4: that the thing that I see with Baker regardless week
Speaker 4: over week over week through this entire season, and an
Speaker 4: argument that we cannot make this season about some quarterbacks,
Speaker 4: is that this team took on his personality. This team
Speaker 4: took on his personality, and there's a will to win.
Speaker 4: There's a matchup savviness when you carry yourself in this
Speaker 4: way into the postseason where no team wants to play
Speaker 4: you because you are an amba. You're able to counter
Speaker 4: all kinds of different things because you had to do
Speaker 4: it earlier in the season. There's a mental toughness and
Speaker 4: there's like a gumption because to get Mike Evans that
Speaker 4: last pass probably nine out of ten times. Not doing that,
Speaker 4: you're kneeling it out right. The game was not over. Now,
Speaker 4: I don't think the Saints were going to make a
Speaker 4: play on that, but you know.
Speaker 1: Oh they tried. The game was rizzy was so pissed.
Speaker 1: They had a coverage that would have double teamed them,
Speaker 1: and they blew the coverage. They either let Mike Evans
Speaker 1: get it, which is my theory, like the players are.
Speaker 3: Like, no, no, I was not loving the fact that
Speaker 3: he was the guy who's on the back.
Speaker 1: Oh no.
Speaker 4: And I will say that takes that takes some metal.
Speaker 4: And Baker Mayfield has shown a set all season. I
Speaker 4: think if we're talking about this being such a cool
Speaker 4: year for quarterbacks, showing us what they're really made of
Speaker 4: after kind of getting tossed around in a few places
Speaker 4: and kicked to the curb in a few places, but
Speaker 4: not only that, to be that guy and then be
Speaker 4: the defining player other than Mike Evans, but the really
Speaker 4: the defining player on this team. Yes, Liam Cohen is great,
Speaker 4: but you're not talking about Sam and Kevin O'Connell the
Speaker 4: way that you're talking about Baker Mayfield. You're talking about
Speaker 4: Kevin O'Connell. Right, Liam and Baker really make a great
Speaker 4: pair together in that way, because Baker is just gonna
Speaker 4: go all out and just try to I mean, he's
Speaker 4: gonna try to win on a twenty eight yards trying
Speaker 4: to score on a twenty eight yard carry.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is such a scrappy team because of
Speaker 2: him and the injuries that they dealt with so many
Speaker 2: other quarterbacks and teams, it would be like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know, they lost their guys and like had to
Speaker 2: deal with all of this adversity, but it didn't matter.
Speaker 2: He still got them wins. And then he did all
Speaker 2: of this with a rookie quarterback or or rookie running
Speaker 2: back in Bucky Irving, and then a new offensive coordinator
Speaker 2: and Liam Cohen. So we had all of these different
Speaker 2: things and still was able to deliver.
Speaker 4: That Chris Godwin injury. How emotional that was. Oh if
Speaker 4: you don't have that factor, that defining thing that makes
Speaker 4: a team rally around you and not sync with a
Speaker 4: situation we see with the Detroit lot, Yeah, you lose
Speaker 4: the room.
Speaker 1: Ye right. I think context is fair for him on
Speaker 1: what helped him, But I think he made a.
Speaker 4: Beautiful He was like one of the best offensive lines
Speaker 4: in football.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he wasn't pressure a lot, and he handles pressure poorly.
Speaker 1: In terms of taking negative plays. He has the most
Speaker 1: fumbles in the league. He has the most fumbles plus
Speaker 1: sax plus interceptions in the league. So he takes a
Speaker 1: lot of negative plays and he doesn't get pressured very often,
Speaker 1: and yet he takes all those sects. Those are the negatives.
Speaker 1: But everything that you said about who he is to
Speaker 1: be fair and adding his scrambling ability lately, that that
Speaker 1: game to me on Sunday defines him because going into
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4: He was he'll be good for an interception.
Speaker 1: He was under four yards per attempt passing with an interception.
Speaker 1: And then it's what you said, that force of will
Speaker 1: to scramble and be patient, and he really has gotten
Speaker 1: a lot better being patient in the pocket and hitting
Speaker 1: those third and longs and getting Jalen McMillan. And then
Speaker 1: the quality of the throws. I mean, he has the
Speaker 1: big time throws that you want to see out of
Speaker 1: a guy on quarterback islands.
Speaker 3: Well, one of the things that I love about Quarterbacks
Speaker 3: Couples League for a long time is going. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: use an NBA analogy that Jerry West told me about
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago. Flex lik right the NBA and gets
Speaker 3: twenty five points per game, right, but there's only ten
Speaker 3: guys who can get you six in the final two minutes,
Speaker 3: and there's only one or two who can get you
Speaker 3: six in the final minute. Baker's one of them dudes.
Speaker 3: He's got the killer in him, right, He's got that
Speaker 3: Joe Burrowin. You know who else has it is Jayden
Speaker 3: and Daniels. Jayde and Daniels got that killer in him. Yes, right,
Speaker 3: But I love the fact that Baker, no matter what
Speaker 3: happened to head him. That's why I like Ben.
Speaker 1: Roethliberger, who's that yeah, the leader in fourth quarter comebacks
Speaker 1: over the last few.
Speaker 2: Years getting there, you know you him when I was
Speaker 2: talking about the GINO doesn't have, but.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but you're I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3: And the fact that Colley made the great point last
Speaker 3: year we were giving Baker props because of Dave Canalis.
Speaker 3: Now he's got Liam Baker's the dude, He's the one.
Speaker 3: He's the common denominator.
Speaker 1: I love what Liam Cohen has done, though he should
Speaker 1: be talking about him like he's gonna be a head
Speaker 1: coaching job.
Speaker 4: And he's gonna get head coach And who came to
Speaker 4: Los Angeles when that season was sunk and the head
Speaker 4: coach was just like am I mentally and was a
Speaker 4: sunbeam into that building in terms of what he was
Speaker 4: able to do two days after And yeah, he got
Speaker 4: coached up. Zach Robinson and Liam Cohen's part of the
Speaker 4: reason they have good jobs. Where they're at now. But
Speaker 4: that's Baker Mayfield on that Thursday night.
Speaker 1: He was not on QB island.
Speaker 3: Also that staff for it, on that staff when Baker came,
Speaker 3: Liam Zach Robins, Yes, yes, Baker's on.
Speaker 4: I am a yes, Florida on the island.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't care that. It was the fourth
Speaker 1: quarter of the eighteenth week that actually won me over.
Speaker 1: That was those two drives he had to go take
Speaker 1: the lead were maybe the two best drives I saw
Speaker 1: all season by anyone, and in the biggest spot. So like, okay,
Speaker 1: I've got it. If I'm thinking about him and Darnold
Speaker 1: for instance, yeah, you left me with that final answer.
Speaker 1: I've given it.
Speaker 4: Last things. Two less things on this two less things
Speaker 4: I've been waiting. He's on so along so Greg to
Speaker 4: have to take the negative plays that he does, and
Speaker 4: he does, that's fair to take those and still rank
Speaker 4: where he ranks in E p A. I think is significant.
Speaker 1: You don't count if you don't lose fumbles, they don't
Speaker 1: count it against you, which is one of his traits.
Speaker 1: He hadn't happen to lose a.
Speaker 4: Lot, sure, but he takes a lot of negative plays
Speaker 4: regardless and then the other thing is that throw to
Speaker 4: Jalen McMillan after But here's why, here's why, this is
Speaker 4: Baker's got it and we know this right, but like
Speaker 4: that happened after no, no person and you can argue
Speaker 4: this till the cows can come home whatever, but no
Speaker 4: about why, whether it should be a penalty or what.
Speaker 4: But no person on the planet was as mortified as
Speaker 4: Jalen McMillan, hands on his helmet, just just distraught over
Speaker 4: incurring that celebration penalty that he did. And Baker goes
Speaker 4: right back to him and and just that absolute slice
Speaker 4: of a throw. Yeah, that was that was a QB.
Speaker 1: Like that's the first ever throw that put someone on
Speaker 1: QB Island. It's amazing. We haven't year. We haven't talked
Speaker 1: Stafford yet.
Speaker 3: That's our math though.
Speaker 1: Okay, we are okay, we are to eight. Eight people
Speaker 1: have officially been voted on. Yes, Gino and Donald are
Speaker 1: on from before, so we have a full island at
Speaker 1: the moment. We haven't voted officially on Gino or Donald
Speaker 1: this time. And if we, you know, wanted to bring
Speaker 1: up someone else to replace them or vote on them,
Speaker 1: we could. I think we should at least mention Stafford,
Speaker 1: who It's funny right after last week when we voted
Speaker 1: him off, he had his he he ripped it up
Speaker 1: against the Bills.
Speaker 2: It's I got to get back to that island. It was.
Speaker 4: It was a delight to watch that that level.
Speaker 1: In the three games after that they did, they combined
Speaker 1: to score the same amount of points and kind of
Speaker 1: showed where they've been in too much of the season.
Speaker 3: Sidebar. Yes, right after that show, where was it that
Speaker 3: the Rams landed?
Speaker 1: In?
Speaker 3: Stafford? The Rams Instagram site or whatever, so I know
Speaker 3: it says Matthew listens to podcast but his warm up
Speaker 3: jacket had his wife's podcast on there.
Speaker 4: My stomach, which I get notifications, so I get notifications,
Speaker 4: and all I saw was the caption. I didn't see
Speaker 4: what he was wearing. He was wearing the King Stafford's
Speaker 4: podcast label or whatever, and but all I saw was
Speaker 4: that it was a picture. And then it said Matthew
Speaker 4: qb one listens to podcasts, and I went, oh god,
Speaker 4: I knows, like.
Speaker 2: You know, it's about the island.
Speaker 4: I will say. We had a lovely conversation the very
Speaker 4: next week after all about all of the things he
Speaker 4: does pre snap in order to make that offense sing,
Speaker 4: even though it's not singing very lovely tunes. Lately, Jimmy
Speaker 4: Garoppolo played really well in Week eight, which hurts.
Speaker 1: Which hurts, I think Stafford. It's funny because I think
Speaker 1: Stafford had a.
Speaker 4: I think he defines the position in twenty four, but
Speaker 4: it's hard for me to vote him on.
Speaker 1: I don't anymore.
Speaker 4: No, No, the last air. I think he defines like
Speaker 4: the last of the old Gunslinger guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the island meets leadership. He's some veteran leadership. Everyone
Speaker 2: else is under thirty. I think he's been with Go
Speaker 2: Buy the Booze.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's because of their schedule, but I feel like
Speaker 1: the Ram the Rams haven't been in the spotlight, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of why people haven't noticed that. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: three games since they combined to score forty four points,
Speaker 1: he had under six yards per attempt in all three
Speaker 1: of those games. He had under two hundred yards passing
Speaker 1: in all three of those and he makes great throws.
Speaker 1: But when I think Rams offense, I don't think Matthew
Speaker 1: Stafford anymore. I think one of the most efficient wide
Speaker 1: receiver seasons of all time. Pukanakua and if I had
Speaker 1: to go second, I'd probably go with a very efficient
Speaker 1: running attack too. So and that's okay, that happens to
Speaker 1: the old time.
Speaker 4: And I will say too, like Greg, those three games
Speaker 4: he threw I want to say, nine near interceptions that
Speaker 4: either bounced off someone's chest or was tipped or something
Speaker 4: that was that was hard to watch because he just
Speaker 4: he he didn't look like himself. And for some parts
Speaker 4: of the season, they've needed him to be the transcendent
Speaker 4: like gunslinger, like darkly chaotic, soul snatching Matthew Stafford that
Speaker 4: got them into the super Bowl and then won them
Speaker 4: that super Bowl with some of the the gutsiness of
Speaker 4: the throws and then and at times this season he
Speaker 4: has been that and more and other times he has
Speaker 4: been far far below that. And that's why it's hard
Speaker 4: for me to do so.
Speaker 1: Among all the people we've talked about today, him, Darnold,
Speaker 1: and Baker actually have the highest turnover worthy play percentage,
Speaker 1: but to me, they've provided more consistent highs to balance
Speaker 1: those out. I'm voting no on Stafford, Yeah, Steve an
Speaker 1: Audio medium no, Nope, nope, no.
Speaker 4: I'm voting no. And you're welcome. Rams fans because he's
Speaker 4: about to put up fifty six now that I voted, Oh,
Speaker 4: he cut just like he did less time.
Speaker 1: You're saying that, Hey, no, okay, Matthew Stafford will not
Speaker 1: make it. We just went down a ten minute wormhole
Speaker 1: where Jordan did the thing that someone does on every show.
Speaker 1: Usually it's me. I'm happy it's it's Jordan. This time
Speaker 1: again that she had realized she messed up her math.
Speaker 1: Colleen was like, can I get out of here? What
Speaker 1: did you call it the Bermuda?
Speaker 4: Try?
Speaker 2: I said, the island. Yeah, it's like the it's located
Speaker 2: in the Bermuda.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we've reached a portion of the program and
Speaker 1: it's I guess it really was all. I guess it
Speaker 1: really was all leading to this where that it's the tenth.
Speaker 1: The tenth spot is still open. We have not voted
Speaker 1: on Geno Smith. We have voted on Jordan Love. If
Speaker 1: someone feels strong that the tenth person should be someone
Speaker 1: other than Geno Smith, like now is the time to
Speaker 1: do it, and we take the votes, whether it's Jalen
Speaker 1: Hurts for you or Geno for me, if there's anyone
Speaker 1: else knowing that there is one spot left and unless
Speaker 1: we wanted to get crazy about changing the rules, we
Speaker 1: are going to put ten people onto this island with that. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're putting one more person on this island either way,
Speaker 1: even though you know, I can feel that the room
Speaker 1: maybe isn't totally for Gino, who I'm going to put
Speaker 1: know up for vote.
Speaker 3: Well, we have to put him up for vote. Mean,
Speaker 3: you guys have already struck down my guy.
Speaker 1: Bonix got Bonix, I made the case. If nothing else,
Speaker 1: he's helped to define this segment. I vote yes, let's
Speaker 1: go one at a time to really raise it.
Speaker 4: Greg really would to soak it in.
Speaker 1: Colleen, yes on No, Steve weis oh, Steve goes yes
Speaker 1: on gin That was a surprise to me.
Speaker 3: Vot.
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to be a no. You
Speaker 1: might have gone back to love or something. The suspense
Speaker 1: Jordan Rodrigue play some music or something.
Speaker 2: Normally we'd be like, after the break, we'll find out.
Speaker 4: And I'll just it's a close up cut with me
Speaker 4: just looking great tortured. So it is interesting how even
Speaker 4: as the creator of Quarterback Island, all roads lead back
Speaker 4: to Greg Rosenthal. Because I am voting yes, you.
Speaker 3: Know, let's goay, you know, six million dollars richer fun
Speaker 3: go on to Quarterback Island.
Speaker 4: And the reason, Colleen is I set the rule the
Speaker 4: injured players cannot be on the I can't go back
Speaker 4: on my own rule.
Speaker 2: A rule is a rule, I guess, Greg for some people,
Speaker 2: some rules of rules.
Speaker 1: When historians go back and they look through the Quarterback
Speaker 1: Island initial class of twenty twenty five, Gino beyond there,
Speaker 1: just like we have Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow, there's
Speaker 1: no ranking of him. He did it. He made it
Speaker 1: into the top ten eight of NFL quarterbacks like Eli
Speaker 1: Manning did. Like you talking about like the.
Speaker 4: Rest of the quarterbacks on the island. Are you just
Speaker 4: gonna honk about Gino Smith?
Speaker 1: No, We're done talking about him.
Speaker 3: For like, all I know is next season, coming into
Speaker 3: the next twenty twenty five twenty six season, I'm putting
Speaker 3: Drake may and over Gina.
Speaker 4: Okay, right so on, I'm putting younger Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, now, al this postseason, but he
Speaker 2: might He's not on this island the entire year and
Speaker 2: ends up going really far.
Speaker 3: And my only NFC quarterback in the playoffs not on the.
Speaker 4: End by a rule because of the rule.
Speaker 1: Well, and to be fair, he wasn't on all season
Speaker 1: before that. Now, if we were really reality show producers,
Speaker 1: you got to get him and Joe Burrow on just
Speaker 1: just for the handsomeness. I think we got Burrow and.
Speaker 2: Got to keep the main thing the main thing.
Speaker 3: Just so if we're doing that, Jimmy Garoppolos, you know.
Speaker 1: Well that's your blaspheme the Island tune in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: It was fun all year. Thank you to Randy Chavez,
Speaker 1: thank you to Eric Roberts behind the glass, and thank
Speaker 1: you yes to Chris Bobona making his last name debut
Speaker 1: on NFL Daily. He noted, I always just called him
Speaker 1: Chris because I wanted to make sure I said Babona, right,
Speaker 1: that's just a name. You don't want it kind of
Speaker 1: fun to say Bbona. I'm sure your your like classmates
Speaker 1: never made fun of you or brought.
Speaker 3: That up at all.
Speaker 1: What do you point, Nick, Let's let's play some music. Eric,
Speaker 1: let's get out of here. We got another show. The
Speaker 1: final ten members of Quarterback Island Josh Allen, Joe Burrow,
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Jaden Daniels, Jared Goff, Justin Herbert,
Speaker 1: Sam Darnold, our new entrant, Baker Mayfield. I like that,
Speaker 1: And yes, Gino surprising me snuck in there. You got
Speaker 1: it at the end. You're not surprised, I am, because
Speaker 1: I made the list. I thought I thought he get
Speaker 1: boxed out. I thought he get boxed out.
Speaker 2: Well, we're so happy for all of the quarterbacks who
Speaker 2: are on the island. Best of luck to everyone who's
Speaker 2: been voted off or didn't make it at all.
Speaker 1: I think this should be brought up during Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame induction arguments in ten fifteen years.
Speaker 3: That's part of like an all decade team.
Speaker 1: Yes, how many times were you a top ten defining
Speaker 1: quarterback in the league. It's one reason why I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have voted for Eli Manning because they would have been
Speaker 1: like twice. But these guys earned it top ten in
Speaker 1: the NFL. I'm happy. Aren't you happy to see your
Speaker 1: baby out in the wild Quarterback Island. Let's let the arguments.
Speaker 4: I have to get last with Quarterback Island all season,
Speaker 4: even when I am psychologically manipulated by Gret.
Speaker 1: Stop it, stop it all.
Speaker 2: Right, we gotta go get to and now we'll give
Speaker 2: you that hug.
Speaker 1: We got to go go to the fires now.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately you were kind of delaying that rescue.
Speaker 1: I know when we've decided on the ten members of
Speaker 1: Quarterback Island twenty twenty four forever, that's when you know
Speaker 1: football is back. See you Wednesday,