Speaker 1: What do you do in life doesn't go according to
Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were
Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are cut wrenching, but all
Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
Speaker 1: answers one question, now What? So I asked Chris if
Speaker 1: there was anything that he wanted to say to you,
Speaker 1: and he said, tell him. I loved watching him on
Speaker 1: celebrity Wheel of Wortune. Continue tell me about that experience.
Speaker 1: I loved being on it. But I had one of
Speaker 1: those I had that thing happened that I was afraid
Speaker 1: would happen. When you watch you at home, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's this, and then when you're actually there in the moment,
Speaker 1: I had a huge brain freeze and apparently the other
Speaker 1: contestants behind me were like, it's kill Can you not
Speaker 1: see this? And oh, God, I could never do those
Speaker 1: total brain freezes. Never do those things. Even if I
Speaker 1: knew all of the information, I think I would just
Speaker 1: panic for some reason. Oh yeah, but um, I remember
Speaker 1: there's a great comedian named Tom Kenny. He's the voice
Speaker 1: of SpongeBob, and he talks about you watch Wheel of
Speaker 1: Fortune and you think that you're a genius because the
Speaker 1: people on that show ago, I'm gonna try to guess
Speaker 1: a stitch in Tom saves pork, and then so you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm the smartest person. People are idiots. And then right
Speaker 1: after Wheel of Fortune is Jeopardy, where you feel like
Speaker 1: the dumbest, like just stuff you've never heard of, Like,
Speaker 1: why are they doing this to my ego? Right now?
Speaker 1: My guest today is Patton Oswalt. Patton is one I
Speaker 1: have admired for quite some time. He's an Emmy and
Speaker 1: Grammy Award winning comedian, an actor, and truly a genuinely
Speaker 1: good guy. If you haven't seen him on one of
Speaker 1: his many comedy specials, chances are you've heard him as
Speaker 1: the voice of Remy and Retta Tui, or maybe you've
Speaker 1: seen him on a p bio or King of Queens
Speaker 1: Veep Gaslet, young adult. The list just goes on. Patton
Speaker 1: has had an incredible career with tremendous range. He's one
Speaker 1: of those rare actors who can appeal to both a
Speaker 1: five year old and a fifty year old. He's also
Speaker 1: had some very public now what moments, including the unexpected
Speaker 1: loss of his wife, Michelle back in two thousand and sixteen.
Speaker 1: Patton's life is an exercise in resilience, and his story
Speaker 1: is one that I think will resonate with many people,
Speaker 1: especially those who are grieving a great loss. So, without
Speaker 1: further ado, here is Patton Oswalt Patton Oswalt Brook. So
Speaker 1: nice to see you. How are you good? Good? How
Speaker 1: my god? I uh, I was just thinking I have
Speaker 1: not seen Chris Hench in a decade or so. I
Speaker 1: said the same thing, and he was like, oh man,
Speaker 1: that's so great that Patent is coming on your show.
Speaker 1: I miss him. We've got to see him. Tell him.
Speaker 1: I say, I, um, now, I'm from New York and
Speaker 1: you're you were on an episode of Seinfeld. So it
Speaker 1: would kind of be a logical question as to which
Speaker 1: one of us is more authentic New Yorker? You are?
Speaker 1: You could not be more authentically New Yorker. Not only
Speaker 1: are you, you're more authentic than the New Yorkers who
Speaker 1: live there now because you got to grow up during
Speaker 1: the most New York East of New York. You grew
Speaker 1: up in the seventies and eighties, when everything that influenced fashion,
Speaker 1: hip hop, everything. You were right in the middle of that.
Speaker 1: You could look down on current New Yorkers. That is
Speaker 1: that is how authentically New York you are. You grew
Speaker 1: up during all that stuff. I was in there in
Speaker 1: the heart of it. Definitely. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 1: I grew up in the bland suburbs of northern Virginia.
Speaker 1: No culture, nothing, just suburbs. We got everything. We got
Speaker 1: everything six months late. We we had. We had such
Speaker 1: opposite childhoods. You were there at the epicenter. You were
Speaker 1: like watching the Talking Heads form, and I was finding
Speaker 1: out about the Talking Heads my senior year of high
Speaker 1: school after they were about to break up. Like, that's
Speaker 1: how slow the news was getting to me. Where You're
Speaker 1: just like, what kind of little kid were you? I
Speaker 1: was a little I was a kid who was super
Speaker 1: into monsters, films, the growth test because where I grew
Speaker 1: up was so peaceful and so solid and steady that
Speaker 1: I craved the weirdness because there was no change in
Speaker 1: the structure at all. So I wanted the chaos. I
Speaker 1: wanted that weirdness. It was just hard to get to
Speaker 1: it because you know, I got it all second hand.
Speaker 1: Like what did you do for fun? What was what
Speaker 1: would like a big thing you would look forward to?
Speaker 1: Would be well, one thing we would do for fun.
Speaker 1: But maybe you you will agree with this boy. The
Speaker 1: seventies was about um benign parental neglect. We basically almost
Speaker 1: got killed every day riding bikes without helmets, building ramps,
Speaker 1: jumping them. There were construction sites all over our development.
Speaker 1: We would go play war games and they half constructed
Speaker 1: houses and fall through foot. It's amazing any of us
Speaker 1: survived when you look back at the childhood that we
Speaker 1: had in the seventies and eighties, because we're supposed to
Speaker 1: be outside and active. This is good parenting, even though
Speaker 1: we're riding our bikes into gorges for your parents. Funny.
Speaker 1: My parents themselves weren't funny, but they loved comedy. My
Speaker 1: dad was a huge comedy fan and had, you know,
Speaker 1: Steve Martin records, Jonathan Winter's record, so there I always
Speaker 1: had access to really good comedy, and then having that
Speaker 1: stuff like watching Carol Burnett with my parents would lead
Speaker 1: to me sneaking downstairs on Saturday night to watch SNL.
Speaker 1: Who are your You're like icons comedy icons of that
Speaker 1: ofot era, I mean, Richard Pryor was. It was just
Speaker 1: like massive and still is for me. Steve Martin, George Carlin, obviously,
Speaker 1: all the SNL stuff, all the SCTV stuff. But then
Speaker 1: once I started doing comedy when I was nineteen, my
Speaker 1: influences were just all my friends. When I went to
Speaker 1: my first open mic, which I didn't do well at,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh my god, I'm actually hanging
Speaker 1: out at the source of where people are making up jokes.
Speaker 1: I'm actually here watching it get invented. And I just
Speaker 1: loved the hang. I loved the lifestyle so much that
Speaker 1: I knew that this is the world I wanted to
Speaker 1: be in. What did your parents say when you said
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a comedian? That was Well, here's
Speaker 1: what was weird I was. I started doing open mics
Speaker 1: between my freshman and sophomore year of college, and and
Speaker 1: that's that summers when I realized, oh, I really want
Speaker 1: to pursue this, and my parents, my dad was my
Speaker 1: dad loves comedy, so he was very excited. My mom,
Speaker 1: of course, being a mom, was like, but I want
Speaker 1: you to have a backup job. I want you to
Speaker 1: be saved. And it was also this unspoken you just
Speaker 1: finished your freshman year of college. You're gonna finish college
Speaker 1: and then you can do whatever you want. You can't like,
Speaker 1: I don't want you dropping out of college to pursue comedy.
Speaker 1: At least finished college, which made college kind of frustrating
Speaker 1: for me because especially senior year, I knew what I
Speaker 1: wanted to be doing. I mean, I was getting booked
Speaker 1: at that point. I was a professional comedian, so it
Speaker 1: felt very It felt like I was in that dream
Speaker 1: you know those dreams where you're back in high school
Speaker 1: and you're like, but I know, but I'm I'm Brookshields,
Speaker 1: I have a wife and family in New York. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you gotta do this geology test, Like no, this
Speaker 1: doesn't apply to me anymore. And it's like that was
Speaker 1: the actual life I was living for real. Okay, well
Speaker 1: that was a perfect segue into my next question. I
Speaker 1: named the show now What because it's really me. It's
Speaker 1: about those pivotal moments in your life. You know, when
Speaker 1: things don't go the way you've expected them to or
Speaker 1: you think they should, or and you have to find
Speaker 1: a way to move forward. So if you were to
Speaker 1: like look at those early years, what were some of
Speaker 1: those now what moments? Well, a big now what moment
Speaker 1: for me was, um, you know, I got engaged when
Speaker 1: I was in college and I was going to get
Speaker 1: married and live in Northern Virginia and try to make
Speaker 1: it as a comedian. And the girl I was engaged
Speaker 1: it was a wonderful person, but she was very open
Speaker 1: and honest about I don't want to leave this area.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy living here and I'd like us to
Speaker 1: live here. And I realized I have to go because
Speaker 1: the comedy boom in the late eighties was kind of collapsing,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I need to move to work. So
Speaker 1: I flipped a coin and I was like, do I
Speaker 1: go to New York or San Francisco. Actually I fake
Speaker 1: flipped a coin and pretend to like I did. But
Speaker 1: I had a friend say, you're meal to go someplace
Speaker 1: and starve. Go someplace warm. So that's one less problem
Speaker 1: you need to worry about. So I moved to San
Speaker 1: Francisco where there were a lot of clubs, but I
Speaker 1: had to break off an engagement and it was it
Speaker 1: was really rough. Um. So that was that big, you know,
Speaker 1: that was one of them. And then there was another
Speaker 1: one where I remember I was really really in the
Speaker 1: San Francisco scene and really loved it, but I had
Speaker 1: an opportunity to go down to l A. Which at
Speaker 1: the time, and I don't know if you remember how
Speaker 1: it was in the early nineties, it was very much
Speaker 1: gen X, grunge, riot girl, don't sell out, stay real,
Speaker 1: don't move down to l A. And so I had
Speaker 1: to make that decision do I stay in San Francisco
Speaker 1: do I moved down to l A. And there's always
Speaker 1: been those little moments where you have to make a choice,
Speaker 1: and sometimes the best choice is to do what feels
Speaker 1: like the uncomfortable, scary thing. You've had such an incredible
Speaker 1: personal journey, and there's one very tragic event that that
Speaker 1: you talk about in your special Annihilation. Um it's beyond
Speaker 1: a O what moment um, But can you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about your first wife, Michelle, who passed away
Speaker 1: very suddenly, very very suddenly, in just out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: It was horrible. I was just talking to my daughter
Speaker 1: because she's thirteen now, and I was saying, if I
Speaker 1: seemed very cold and distant to you during that time,
Speaker 1: because I know that you were going through some bad stuff.
Speaker 1: I just in my mind, I think I went into
Speaker 1: defensive mode and that she's gone through enough shock and trauma.
Speaker 1: I can't let her see me crying and breaking down
Speaker 1: and freaking out. I've got to be this strong, steady
Speaker 1: pillar for her, and I can do my healing out
Speaker 1: of sight of her. And now I'm wondering was that
Speaker 1: the best idea, because I really got wired into how
Speaker 1: traumatic that must have been for because I could just
Speaker 1: imagine if I had lost my parents at her age,
Speaker 1: it would have shattered my world. So I I think
Speaker 1: I overcorrected to make sure that she had this absolutely
Speaker 1: steady presence, and in being this steady presence I did,
Speaker 1: I wasn't as human as I was, so I was
Speaker 1: experiencing it and hiding it. And then it wasn't until
Speaker 1: later that I could start to experience joy and actual
Speaker 1: life again. M Although the people in my grief group
Speaker 1: were like, you will experience joy again, I know you
Speaker 1: can't imagine this, but you will, it will happen. Did
Speaker 1: someone tell you that there was this grief group or
Speaker 1: did you look? Look. I had a friend who lost
Speaker 1: his wife and he turned me onto this place although
Speaker 1: this was this was interesting, So I called him immediately
Speaker 1: because I wanted my daughter to get into a grief
Speaker 1: group immediately. And they said, you actually have to wait
Speaker 1: a couple of months because if you go into the
Speaker 1: group right now, you will end up not processing a
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff, because we will you'll get the
Speaker 1: tools too early. You actually have to let this be
Speaker 1: painful and sloppy for a while and let all of
Speaker 1: this stuff get out, and then you go to the
Speaker 1: grief group to process it. But if you go here
Speaker 1: too early, we'll nip it in the bud and you'll
Speaker 1: never actually face it. And it was this really why
Speaker 1: it was a harsh thing to hear. But these are
Speaker 1: people that knew and have gone through this, and we're
Speaker 1: just like, no, no, you have to this is what
Speaker 1: you have to do. Who were the people that you
Speaker 1: were able to lean on at that time? Um? My family,
Speaker 1: Michelle's family, all of her she came from a massive
Speaker 1: Irish brood. My family is my mom my dad and
Speaker 1: my brother. Her family is like sixty people, and um,
Speaker 1: so they were there for me. And then also, I
Speaker 1: know this sounds really weird. A lot of my I'm
Speaker 1: very lucky. A lot of my friends are comedians, and
Speaker 1: comedians really understand darkness and know how to mock it
Speaker 1: in a very smart, tasteful way that makes it manageable.
Speaker 1: I remember six months after Michelle passed, my manager was like,
Speaker 1: you got an offer to be on this show. Those
Speaker 1: who can't it's a little part. Just go and do something,
Speaker 1: go work. You need to just go and do something.
Speaker 1: So I went and did it. And at this point,
Speaker 1: like my friend's sister had died, and then this other
Speaker 1: friend of mine her husband had died. And I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there with Susie Essman. Susie Esthman was also on the show,
Speaker 1: and I'm She's like, are you okay, sweetie. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just you know, like my wife passed away, and
Speaker 1: now my friend's sister just died, and my other friend's
Speaker 1: husband just died. It's like I feel like I am
Speaker 1: I this avatar of death and I just bringing death
Speaker 1: everywhere I go. And then she said, you're not that important. Sweetie,
Speaker 1: and it it cracked me up, and it also brought
Speaker 1: me out of my narcissistic funk. It was, but it
Speaker 1: was the perfect thing for her to say to me.
Speaker 1: It's it, But it's got to be hard to be
Speaker 1: funny when you're going through tragedy. Well, not only is
Speaker 1: it hard to be funny, you really questioned, is this
Speaker 1: disgusting of me to even do this? Is this? What
Speaker 1: right do I have to be up here doing? But
Speaker 1: but then I was talking to my my shrink, who
Speaker 1: at that point I was talking to like two or
Speaker 1: three times a week, and he said, you have a skill.
Speaker 1: You can make people laugh. People are also going through
Speaker 1: awful things out there. Yes, you have gone through an
Speaker 1: awful thing, and yes you need to process it. But
Speaker 1: have have you during this time gone and looked at
Speaker 1: someone someone's comedy special, or or watch someone's thing that
Speaker 1: made you laugh and gave you a little bit of hope.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they went through the same kind of darkness.
Speaker 1: You need to keep passing it around like that's part
Speaker 1: of what's going to help get the grief out of
Speaker 1: you is to find a way. He goes, I don't
Speaker 1: know how you're gonna do it, but try to find
Speaker 1: a way to talk about it and if not, make
Speaker 1: it funny, make it understandable, and make it empathetic. So
Speaker 1: with that mindset, that's why I started going back on
Speaker 1: stage like seven eight months later. It was funny when
Speaker 1: my well not funny. I mean, it's like you're making
Speaker 1: death funny. It's just right there. There's there's sort of
Speaker 1: ironically ridiculous things surrounding death, you know, that are just insane.
Speaker 1: And I knew that when I I mean, I was
Speaker 1: alone when my mom pat I was with her when
Speaker 1: she died, and you know, just recounting what that looked
Speaker 1: like was so hysterically funny in my opinion, because it
Speaker 1: was so odd. And when I went in to go
Speaker 1: see her before the cremation, you know, she said in
Speaker 1: the box and I was alone in the room, and
Speaker 1: I kept thinking like she was just gonna jump up
Speaker 1: and and and then I realized I hadn't. I had
Speaker 1: only picked out a top for her, I hadn't picked
Speaker 1: out a bottom. I'm so I'm looking at thinking and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm thinking, no, that that can't be like
Speaker 1: but and I was like, I have to look, I
Speaker 1: just have to look. Had no pants on it. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, So I looked in it time. When
Speaker 1: I wrote about it in a book, I called it,
Speaker 1: look Mom, no pants, Hey, Mom, sending you into the
Speaker 1: afterlife with no pants? You know, without that, she would
Speaker 1: have appreciated that, right. I remember a year after Michelle
Speaker 1: passed away, I went to visit her stone, you know,
Speaker 1: and I would visit her stone and speak with her,
Speaker 1: and but this is like one year, so I wanted
Speaker 1: to let her know that, you know, things are okay,
Speaker 1: and Alice is okay. And I'm sitting there and there
Speaker 1: is a adorable, adorable um Asian family gathered around a
Speaker 1: stone like one of their family members, like a hundred
Speaker 1: yards away, and they have brought food like it's a
Speaker 1: whole day, like they're there with their loved one and
Speaker 1: that's it's beautiful. But they had brought a boom box
Speaker 1: and they were blaring Selene Dion's My Heart Will Go
Speaker 1: On and it was so trebly. There was no base
Speaker 1: on this thing and it was just like this screeching.
Speaker 1: It's felt like somebody was playing that song but on
Speaker 1: a dentist drill, and it was just filling the air.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to talk with her and I and
Speaker 1: I eventually I think I said a version of listen,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit in my car and like you're
Speaker 1: a ghost, you can like fly with me. Just come
Speaker 1: over there to the car and we'll talk. I cannot
Speaker 1: listen to this song like that. It was so and
Speaker 1: I didn't give the family the stink face. That's the way.
Speaker 1: I'd never judge how people mourn. And they were together
Speaker 1: and happy. But I was chased back into my car
Speaker 1: by Selene Dion's My Heart Will Go On because they
Speaker 1: could not listen to it anymore. They had it on
Speaker 1: a loop. Brook. It was on a loop. It was
Speaker 1: all they were playing. No, no, it was well maybe
Speaker 1: it was her. Yeah. Again, I'm not going to judge
Speaker 1: how people born. But good lord, wow, get some base,
Speaker 1: for God's sake, get some base. I have found that, UM,
Speaker 1: grief definitely changes us. Boy, how do you think it's
Speaker 1: changed to you? Um? It has made me much more
Speaker 1: open to maybe wage less judgmental about what affects people
Speaker 1: and makes them either sad or happy, because I had
Speaker 1: to be very open about you know, if this is
Speaker 1: making me happy right now and getting me through the day,
Speaker 1: then good it got me past all that coolness like
Speaker 1: if someone tells me that something is hurting them or
Speaker 1: bother them. I used to be guilty of doing the
Speaker 1: well that you shouldn't be bothered by that that's not important.
Speaker 1: But now I'm very much about let me hear what
Speaker 1: it is, that's why it's bothering you, Like I'll know,
Speaker 1: or I'll just accept it, no judgments, and then I'll
Speaker 1: talk about it, rather than or like, oh, you're listening
Speaker 1: to that music, like who if it's making someone happy,
Speaker 1: who cares it's helping? Who cares what they're listening to
Speaker 1: as long as I'm making them happy? So it really
Speaker 1: it really blew me out of that whole thing of
Speaker 1: like you know, Like like now when I get interviewed, um,
Speaker 1: because I I love movies and people ask me, what
Speaker 1: are your guilty pleasures, I'm like, I've I've stopped having
Speaker 1: guilty pleasures. If I like something, there's no guilt to it.
Speaker 1: If a movie works, I'm I'm into it. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't judge it anymore. Has it changed their view
Speaker 1: of comedy in general and your comedy? I mean it definitely.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that it changed my I mean,
Speaker 1: I still you. I still have the same voice that
Speaker 1: I have. It just I've experienced more things that I
Speaker 1: can think about it. It it expanded the canvas of
Speaker 1: my experience. I cursed the lesson and bless the knowledge.
Speaker 1: I I got some insight into some stuff that I
Speaker 1: would have been very happy not to have had insight into.
Speaker 1: But now that I do, I'm trying to use it
Speaker 1: for good. I guess so, you know. But but there's
Speaker 1: that thing of like, hey, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: don't wanna let me go through that. When did you
Speaker 1: notice that you were falling in love with this woman
Speaker 1: who is going to become eroer and your daughter's person. Well,
Speaker 1: here's how I met Meredith. Um. We have a lot
Speaker 1: of friends in common, and one of the friends we
Speaker 1: have in common is an actress named Martha Plimpton. Love her.
Speaker 1: Martha rules. Yeah, And Martha is one of those Queen
Speaker 1: Bee connectors. Everyone knows her and she has these salons
Speaker 1: at her house where she'll have a dinner and invite
Speaker 1: various people to watch them interact. And she had a
Speaker 1: thing said the February after Michelle passed, where she was like, hey, come,
Speaker 1: I have a dinner at the house and I think
Speaker 1: I was either traveling that day or I was traveling
Speaker 1: and got delayed and stuck in it, and I could
Speaker 1: but I couldn't go. And Meredith was one of the
Speaker 1: people that was going to be there because she's they've
Speaker 1: known each other since, say we're teenagers. So I couldn't go.
Speaker 1: And then Meredith like sent me and said, hey, you
Speaker 1: missed the best lasagna ever. And then I message her
Speaker 1: back like, oh, hey, story in my life, and then
Speaker 1: like yeah, and then we just started talking. It was
Speaker 1: like at nine o'clock at night, We're just texting back
Speaker 1: and forth, nothing flirty, just talking. And then the next
Speaker 1: night around nine I'd like sent her, Hey, what are
Speaker 1: you doing right now? And so one of the things
Speaker 1: that I'm of the many things I missed about Michelle
Speaker 1: was that you found I had found someone. And this
Speaker 1: is what everyone you know when you're really deeply loved.
Speaker 1: It's someone you can talk to at the end of
Speaker 1: the day in the dark. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you lie next to him in the the dark and we
Speaker 1: talk to them and suddenly, here's this I'm just interacting
Speaker 1: with this mind and this personality. We're not talking on
Speaker 1: the phone. We're not talking face to face, it's just texting.
Speaker 1: And we started doing that every night for three months.
Speaker 1: We never spoke on the phone, never met, just got together.
Speaker 1: I put Alice to sleep and then we would just
Speaker 1: talk for like two hours and then we just sort
Speaker 1: of fell in love doing it. Is there one thing
Speaker 1: that just does a family that you, you and Meredith
Speaker 1: have created that you were the most proud of. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. Well, we always do a thing.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we name our rose,
Speaker 1: bud and thorn, which is what was the rose of
Speaker 1: the day? What was the rose of the day, what's
Speaker 1: the what's the bud? What are you looking forward to?
Speaker 1: And then what was the thorn? And we connect on
Speaker 1: that and so we just trade those off. And then
Speaker 1: we also um a lot of we we have a
Speaker 1: lot of board game traditions. We are very much a
Speaker 1: board game family. There's a lot of that going on.
Speaker 1: But also we were, you know, Meredith and I are
Speaker 1: still I think we're because we're creatives. Were still very
Speaker 1: much connected to what it was like to be a
Speaker 1: little kid and then start moving into your teenage years. Alice,
Speaker 1: we still all love each other, but Alice is thirteen now,
Speaker 1: and she wants to hang out with her friends. And
Speaker 1: I know a lot of my friends when their kids
Speaker 1: stop wanting to hang out as much, they kind of
Speaker 1: take it personally. It's like, no, that's actually a healthy
Speaker 1: thing that they're doing. They're supposed to separate from you
Speaker 1: a little bit and start to mold themselves. That's part
Speaker 1: of growing up. So it's it's exciting to see that,
Speaker 1: to see the kind of person she's becoming, and to
Speaker 1: get out of her way. I mean, I you know,
Speaker 1: my daughter's just living her life at college, and you know,
Speaker 1: and and it breaks your soul, it breaks your heart.
Speaker 1: And yet you know, if you've done it right, that's
Speaker 1: what you want them to do. Yes, but yet but
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, it's what that's why they're um. Those toy
Speaker 1: story movies I think really hit people hard. That no
Speaker 1: one was ready for that, because toys, the toy story
Speaker 1: phones are about being a parent. It's your this toy
Speaker 1: for this kid, and the kid outgrows you and and
Speaker 1: you you know that's that that that line that Tom
Speaker 1: Hank says, You're like, he's going to get sicky you
Speaker 1: and that where he goes. I know. But I wouldn't
Speaker 1: miss this. I still wouldn't miss this. And you're like,
Speaker 1: oh god, you know, it's just that that's exactly what
Speaker 1: being a parent is. Oh I just bummed you out.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. No, not at all, it is It's
Speaker 1: I'm I'm living it. Um. I still have a sixteen
Speaker 1: year old um and has the eye rolling startup, has
Speaker 1: the we're just getting the beginning of the eye rolling.
Speaker 1: That's nothing. That is the tip of the iceberg. And
Speaker 1: that's another another part of it too. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of that. There's a lot of that. I'm like, what's
Speaker 1: what's some got something in your throat? How is school's good? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good. Things are good, they're fine, fine good? Or
Speaker 1: what about what mama? Everything? I was like, is that
Speaker 1: up too syllables? Mama. I'm like, it's just there's a
Speaker 1: lot of that going. Um oh yes. So again, that's
Speaker 1: so I think they have to learn how to individuate,
Speaker 1: and they don't know how to so they have to
Speaker 1: find reasons to hate us. Um. I think just hi
Speaker 1: separating absolutely thinks yep, dang it. Switching back to comedy
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh, we're sort of in a very
Speaker 1: weird time and in comedy, and I cannot even imagine.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about where comedy is and how do
Speaker 1: you deal with it. Well, we're in a weird time
Speaker 1: in comedy, but we're not in a new time. There
Speaker 1: have been versions of this in the past. Whenever there
Speaker 1: is a new generation coming up that is more attuned
Speaker 1: to things that we're either not spoken about in the
Speaker 1: past or we're not as a tune to, there are
Speaker 1: people that will dig in and go yeah. But I
Speaker 1: should still be able to do this because well, you know,
Speaker 1: any art from, any art from has got to mutate
Speaker 1: and evolve and grow. And you know, one thing I
Speaker 1: always remember when when for years, for years, African American
Speaker 1: people were like, you know, we're abused by the police,
Speaker 1: and they do, and people are like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: just being made up. And then the police started wearing
Speaker 1: cameras and lo and behold, there's all this footage of
Speaker 1: police abuse. So I tend to air on the side
Speaker 1: of one of my one of the minority groups says
Speaker 1: something is happening that I tend to now listen to them.
Speaker 1: So you know, as far as like you know, trans
Speaker 1: or or queer or anyone on the gender spectrum is saying, hey,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of hidden abuse and invisible abuse that
Speaker 1: you don't see. I tend to want to listen to
Speaker 1: that because because I had been so blind to stuff before.
Speaker 1: So um, if I got to adjust how I'm funny,
Speaker 1: then then I can adjust. I can. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: a comedian. You can write new stuff. I mean, you
Speaker 1: also got a lot of flat talking about these topics.
Speaker 1: You've got a lot of flak for for posting a
Speaker 1: photo with Dave Chappelle. The flak for posting the photo.
Speaker 1: I got the flak from certain quarters for then going, hey,
Speaker 1: he's still my friend. I still think he's a genius.
Speaker 1: I don't agree with his stance on trans people, and
Speaker 1: that's gonna And I realized that posting that um may
Speaker 1: have hurt the feelings of some of my trans friends
Speaker 1: that I have, and I just wanted to clear that
Speaker 1: up there, and and that just that that nuance freaked
Speaker 1: people out. You know, there's this there's this weird culture
Speaker 1: now of cruelty for clout and also this weird culture
Speaker 1: of no apologies. Ever. I'm like, I cannot imagine living
Speaker 1: a life with zero regrets or zero apologies. That is
Speaker 1: science fiction that just doesn't exist. And they've made this
Speaker 1: fantasy because what they're hearkening back to was there was
Speaker 1: a time when a certain economic level of straight white
Speaker 1: male didn't have to ever apologize or explain anything. And
Speaker 1: I think there's a generation of of young men that
Speaker 1: feel like I should have had a turn at that.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, those days were horrible, though?
Speaker 1: Is that because I'm curious about how do you reconcile
Speaker 1: a friendship when there's such polarizing opinions? Just because I
Speaker 1: have I really really try to see. There's just so
Speaker 1: much good and value in everybody, even people that I
Speaker 1: don't necessarily like. I mean, Davis is one I really
Speaker 1: like and I think is genuinely brilliant. But it's the century,
Speaker 1: but we're starting to act like it's the ninth century,
Speaker 1: where we're literally dividing ourselves up into feudal camps. And
Speaker 1: if you have this one opinion you agree with, it
Speaker 1: must mean you must be with these opinions, and that,
Speaker 1: to me is insane. People are complex and and that's
Speaker 1: what makes life fun. And if we're gonna if it's
Speaker 1: gonna be reduced to blue shirts versus red shirts, if
Speaker 1: it's going to be, you know, a snowball fight by
Speaker 1: five year olds, then we're on a very very bad path.
Speaker 1: What's amazing is if you read the thing that I wrote,
Speaker 1: when I wrote my thing about the photo with Dave,
Speaker 1: it's me embracing the fact that I'm in this difficult
Speaker 1: position and a lot of us are, and all these
Speaker 1: people that are always about the truth, and you've gotta
Speaker 1: be a reels like I'm actually being real because this
Speaker 1: is really awkward and hard to talk about. But again,
Speaker 1: nuance now is looked at as weakness. Empathy has looked
Speaker 1: at his weakness, Doubt and self reflection and struggling is
Speaker 1: looked at his weakness. But to me, that's always meant strength.
Speaker 1: To quote James Carville, We're gonna have to let the
Speaker 1: actionary tables do their job. There's gonna be this's gonna
Speaker 1: need to be some generations of people that need to
Speaker 1: just I know that's a terrible thing to say, but
Speaker 1: in order to move us forward, it's like we gotta
Speaker 1: kind of call generations. Well, there was just this is
Speaker 1: so I can't believe I'm citing this. This is so weird.
Speaker 1: There's a Rank and Bass special remember Rudolph the Red
Speaker 1: Nose Reindeer and all those little animated special Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they made one called Santa Claus Is Coming to Town
Speaker 1: and it's basically like Santa Claus Year one. It's his
Speaker 1: origin story. And then the villain is this guy, the
Speaker 1: Burger Burgermeister, Meister Burger Um remember him, And he's like,
Speaker 1: there's no Christmas and Santa has to become like an
Speaker 1: outlaw re member and and then at the end Santa
Speaker 1: Claus never really defeats Burgermeister. He just goes, I'll just
Speaker 1: move up north and change my name and come at night.
Speaker 1: And then so and then then this this little kids like,
Speaker 1: so what happened to the Burger Meister Meister Burger And
Speaker 1: they're like, well, they kind of stayed in power, but
Speaker 1: then the family just sort of died out and everyone
Speaker 1: just kind of forgot about it. Like it was that
Speaker 1: thing of like, no, sometimes you don't defeat the big villain.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the villain is defeated after the villain is dead,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, but I was like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe that is the most weirdly mature thing
Speaker 1: to have any children's cartoon of like how did he
Speaker 1: defeat them? Oh he didn't. He just eventually died and
Speaker 1: everyone ignored him like he was just like wow, and
Speaker 1: that happens with people. I so funny because I remember
Speaker 1: him for some reason. I remember him turning sweet. No,
Speaker 1: that was the evening. Oh my god, I'm such a nerd.
Speaker 1: There was an evil ice wizard, remember the ice Wizards,
Speaker 1: And then Santa gives him a the But then Santa
Speaker 1: gives him a toy. He gives him a gift. He's like,
Speaker 1: no one's ever got given me a gift, and it
Speaker 1: melts his heart and he becomes nice. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: getting them confused with. But thank you for clearing that up.
Speaker 1: I loved um. I lived in Rudolph with cute. I
Speaker 1: was always haunted by the the Island of Misfit Toys
Speaker 1: because yes, the train has square wheels, I get it,
Speaker 1: Yes it's a try. But then there's just this dolly there,
Speaker 1: like she doesn't really like was she murdering people? Why
Speaker 1: is she managed to this island? Like the other toys
Speaker 1: are mouth octioning? But what was her deal? I don't
Speaker 1: want to know. That's it for us today. If you
Speaker 1: want to hear more from Patton Oswalt. Check out his
Speaker 1: newest comedy special We All Scream, streaming now on Netflix.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear more from me, well you
Speaker 1: have to subscribe to this show Now What with Brookshields
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows. Now What is produced by
Speaker 1: the wonderful Julia Weaver with help from Darby Masters. Our
Speaker 1: executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by
Speaker 1: Bahid Fraser and Christian Bowman. A special thanks to nicky
Speaker 1: Etre and Will Pearson