1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: What do you do in life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are cut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: answers one question, now What? So I asked Chris if 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,639 Speaker 1: there was anything that he wanted to say to you, 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: and he said, tell him. I loved watching him on 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: celebrity Wheel of Wortune. Continue tell me about that experience. 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: I loved being on it. But I had one of 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: those I had that thing happened that I was afraid 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: would happen. When you watch you at home, you're like, oh, 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: it's this, and then when you're actually there in the moment, 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: I had a huge brain freeze and apparently the other 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: contestants behind me were like, it's kill Can you not 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: see this? And oh, God, I could never do those 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: total brain freezes. Never do those things. Even if I 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: knew all of the information, I think I would just 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: panic for some reason. Oh yeah, but um, I remember 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: there's a great comedian named Tom Kenny. He's the voice 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: of SpongeBob, and he talks about you watch Wheel of 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: Fortune and you think that you're a genius because the 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: people on that show ago, I'm gonna try to guess 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: a stitch in Tom saves pork, and then so you're like, 30 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: I'm the smartest person. People are idiots. And then right 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: after Wheel of Fortune is Jeopardy, where you feel like 32 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: the dumbest, like just stuff you've never heard of, Like, 33 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: why are they doing this to my ego? Right now? 34 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: My guest today is Patton Oswalt. Patton is one I 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: have admired for quite some time. He's an Emmy and 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: Grammy Award winning comedian, an actor, and truly a genuinely 37 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: good guy. If you haven't seen him on one of 38 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: his many comedy specials, chances are you've heard him as 39 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the voice of Remy and Retta Tui, or maybe you've 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: seen him on a p bio or King of Queens 41 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: Veep Gaslet, young adult. The list just goes on. Patton 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: has had an incredible career with tremendous range. He's one 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: of those rare actors who can appeal to both a 44 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: five year old and a fifty year old. He's also 45 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: had some very public now what moments, including the unexpected 46 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: loss of his wife, Michelle back in two thousand and sixteen. 47 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: Patton's life is an exercise in resilience, and his story 48 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: is one that I think will resonate with many people, 49 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: especially those who are grieving a great loss. So, without 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: further ado, here is Patton Oswalt Patton Oswalt Brook. So 51 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: nice to see you. How are you good? Good? How 52 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: my god? I uh, I was just thinking I have 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: not seen Chris Hench in a decade or so. I 54 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: said the same thing, and he was like, oh man, 55 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: that's so great that Patent is coming on your show. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: I miss him. We've got to see him. Tell him. 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: I say, I, um, now, I'm from New York and 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: you're you were on an episode of Seinfeld. So it 59 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: would kind of be a logical question as to which 60 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: one of us is more authentic New Yorker? You are? 61 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: You could not be more authentically New Yorker. Not only 62 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: are you, you're more authentic than the New Yorkers who 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: live there now because you got to grow up during 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: the most New York East of New York. You grew 65 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: up in the seventies and eighties, when everything that influenced fashion, 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: hip hop, everything. You were right in the middle of that. 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: You could look down on current New Yorkers. That is 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: that is how authentically New York you are. You grew 69 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: up during all that stuff. I was in there in 70 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: the heart of it. Definitely. Where did you grow up? 71 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: I grew up in the bland suburbs of northern Virginia. 72 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: No culture, nothing, just suburbs. We got everything. We got 73 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: everything six months late. We we had. We had such 74 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: opposite childhoods. You were there at the epicenter. You were 75 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 1: like watching the Talking Heads form, and I was finding 76 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: out about the Talking Heads my senior year of high 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: school after they were about to break up. Like, that's 78 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: how slow the news was getting to me. Where You're 79 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: just like, what kind of little kid were you? I 80 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: was a little I was a kid who was super 81 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: into monsters, films, the growth test because where I grew 82 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: up was so peaceful and so solid and steady that 83 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: I craved the weirdness because there was no change in 84 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: the structure at all. So I wanted the chaos. I 85 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: wanted that weirdness. It was just hard to get to 86 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: it because you know, I got it all second hand. 87 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: Like what did you do for fun? What was what 88 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: would like a big thing you would look forward to? 89 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 1: Would be well, one thing we would do for fun. 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: But maybe you you will agree with this boy. The 91 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: seventies was about um benign parental neglect. We basically almost 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: got killed every day riding bikes without helmets, building ramps, 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: jumping them. There were construction sites all over our development. 94 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: We would go play war games and they half constructed 95 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: houses and fall through foot. It's amazing any of us 96 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: survived when you look back at the childhood that we 97 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: had in the seventies and eighties, because we're supposed to 98 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: be outside and active. This is good parenting, even though 99 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: we're riding our bikes into gorges for your parents. Funny. 100 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: My parents themselves weren't funny, but they loved comedy. My 101 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: dad was a huge comedy fan and had, you know, 102 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: Steve Martin records, Jonathan Winter's record, so there I always 103 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: had access to really good comedy, and then having that 104 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: stuff like watching Carol Burnett with my parents would lead 105 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: to me sneaking downstairs on Saturday night to watch SNL. 106 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: Who are your You're like icons comedy icons of that 107 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: ofot era, I mean, Richard Pryor was. It was just 108 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: like massive and still is for me. Steve Martin, George Carlin, obviously, 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: all the SNL stuff, all the SCTV stuff. But then 110 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: once I started doing comedy when I was nineteen, my 111 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: influences were just all my friends. When I went to 112 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: my first open mic, which I didn't do well at, 113 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: but I was like, oh my god, I'm actually hanging 114 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: out at the source of where people are making up jokes. 115 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm actually here watching it get invented. And I just 116 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: loved the hang. I loved the lifestyle so much that 117 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: I knew that this is the world I wanted to 118 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: be in. What did your parents say when you said 119 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to be a comedian? That was Well, here's 120 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: what was weird I was. I started doing open mics 121 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: between my freshman and sophomore year of college, and and 122 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: that's that summers when I realized, oh, I really want 123 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: to pursue this, and my parents, my dad was my 124 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: dad loves comedy, so he was very excited. My mom, 125 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: of course, being a mom, was like, but I want 126 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: you to have a backup job. I want you to 127 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: be saved. And it was also this unspoken you just 128 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: finished your freshman year of college. You're gonna finish college 129 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: and then you can do whatever you want. You can't like, 130 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: I don't want you dropping out of college to pursue comedy. 131 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: At least finished college, which made college kind of frustrating 132 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: for me because especially senior year, I knew what I 133 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,559 Speaker 1: wanted to be doing. I mean, I was getting booked 134 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: at that point. I was a professional comedian, so it 135 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: felt very It felt like I was in that dream 136 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: you know those dreams where you're back in high school 137 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: and you're like, but I know, but I'm I'm Brookshields, 138 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: I have a wife and family in New York. Yeah, 139 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: but you gotta do this geology test, Like no, this 140 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: doesn't apply to me anymore. And it's like that was 141 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: the actual life I was living for real. Okay, well 142 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: that was a perfect segue into my next question. I 143 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: named the show now What because it's really me. It's 144 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: about those pivotal moments in your life. You know, when 145 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: things don't go the way you've expected them to or 146 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: you think they should, or and you have to find 147 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: a way to move forward. So if you were to 148 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: like look at those early years, what were some of 149 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: those now what moments? Well, a big now what moment 150 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: for me was, um, you know, I got engaged when 151 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: I was in college and I was going to get 152 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: married and live in Northern Virginia and try to make 153 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: it as a comedian. And the girl I was engaged 154 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: it was a wonderful person, but she was very open 155 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: and honest about I don't want to leave this area. 156 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: I'm very happy living here and I'd like us to 157 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: live here. And I realized I have to go because 158 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: the comedy boom in the late eighties was kind of collapsing, 159 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I need to move to work. So 160 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: I flipped a coin and I was like, do I 161 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: go to New York or San Francisco. Actually I fake 162 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: flipped a coin and pretend to like I did. But 163 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: I had a friend say, you're meal to go someplace 164 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: and starve. Go someplace warm. So that's one less problem 165 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: you need to worry about. So I moved to San 166 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: Francisco where there were a lot of clubs, but I 167 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: had to break off an engagement and it was it 168 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: was really rough. Um. So that was that big, you know, 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: that was one of them. And then there was another 170 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: one where I remember I was really really in the 171 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: San Francisco scene and really loved it, but I had 172 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: an opportunity to go down to l A. Which at 173 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: the time, and I don't know if you remember how 174 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: it was in the early nineties, it was very much 175 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: gen X, grunge, riot girl, don't sell out, stay real, 176 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: don't move down to l A. And so I had 177 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: to make that decision do I stay in San Francisco 178 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: do I moved down to l A. And there's always 179 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: been those little moments where you have to make a choice, 180 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: and sometimes the best choice is to do what feels 181 00:09:51,040 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: like the uncomfortable, scary thing. You've had such an incredible 182 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: personal journey, and there's one very tragic event that that 183 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: you talk about in your special Annihilation. Um it's beyond 184 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: a O what moment um, But can you talk a 185 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: little bit about your first wife, Michelle, who passed away 186 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: very suddenly, very very suddenly, in just out of nowhere. 187 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: It was horrible. I was just talking to my daughter 188 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: because she's thirteen now, and I was saying, if I 189 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: seemed very cold and distant to you during that time, 190 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: because I know that you were going through some bad stuff. 191 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: I just in my mind, I think I went into 192 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: defensive mode and that she's gone through enough shock and trauma. 193 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: I can't let her see me crying and breaking down 194 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: and freaking out. I've got to be this strong, steady 195 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: pillar for her, and I can do my healing out 196 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: of sight of her. And now I'm wondering was that 197 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: the best idea, because I really got wired into how 198 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: traumatic that must have been for because I could just 199 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: imagine if I had lost my parents at her age, 200 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: it would have shattered my world. So I I think 201 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: I overcorrected to make sure that she had this absolutely 202 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: steady presence, and in being this steady presence I did, 203 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't as human as I was, so I was 204 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: experiencing it and hiding it. And then it wasn't until 205 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: later that I could start to experience joy and actual 206 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: life again. M Although the people in my grief group 207 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: were like, you will experience joy again, I know you 208 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: can't imagine this, but you will, it will happen. Did 209 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: someone tell you that there was this grief group or 210 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: did you look? Look. I had a friend who lost 211 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: his wife and he turned me onto this place although 212 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: this was this was interesting, So I called him immediately 213 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: because I wanted my daughter to get into a grief 214 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 1: group immediately. And they said, you actually have to wait 215 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: a couple of months because if you go into the 216 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: group right now, you will end up not processing a 217 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff, because we will you'll get the 218 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: tools too early. You actually have to let this be 219 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: painful and sloppy for a while and let all of 220 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: this stuff get out, and then you go to the 221 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: grief group to process it. But if you go here 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: too early, we'll nip it in the bud and you'll 223 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: never actually face it. And it was this really why 224 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: it was a harsh thing to hear. But these are 225 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: people that knew and have gone through this, and we're 226 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: just like, no, no, you have to this is what 227 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: you have to do. Who were the people that you 228 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: were able to lean on at that time? Um? My family, 229 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: Michelle's family, all of her she came from a massive 230 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: Irish brood. My family is my mom my dad and 231 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: my brother. Her family is like sixty people, and um, 232 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: so they were there for me. And then also, I 233 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: know this sounds really weird. A lot of my I'm 234 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: very lucky. A lot of my friends are comedians, and 235 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: comedians really understand darkness and know how to mock it 236 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: in a very smart, tasteful way that makes it manageable. 237 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: I remember six months after Michelle passed, my manager was like, 238 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: you got an offer to be on this show. Those 239 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: who can't it's a little part. Just go and do something, 240 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: go work. You need to just go and do something. 241 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: So I went and did it. And at this point, 242 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: like my friend's sister had died, and then this other 243 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: friend of mine her husband had died. And I'm sitting 244 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: there with Susie Essman. Susie Esthman was also on the show, 245 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: and I'm She's like, are you okay, sweetie. I was like, yeah, 246 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: I just you know, like my wife passed away, and 247 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: now my friend's sister just died, and my other friend's 248 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: husband just died. It's like I feel like I am 249 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: I this avatar of death and I just bringing death 250 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: everywhere I go. And then she said, you're not that important. Sweetie, 251 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: and it it cracked me up, and it also brought 252 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: me out of my narcissistic funk. It was, but it 253 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: was the perfect thing for her to say to me. 254 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: It's it, But it's got to be hard to be 255 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: funny when you're going through tragedy. Well, not only is 256 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: it hard to be funny, you really questioned, is this 257 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: disgusting of me to even do this? Is this? What 258 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: right do I have to be up here doing? But 259 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: but then I was talking to my my shrink, who 260 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: at that point I was talking to like two or 261 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: three times a week, and he said, you have a skill. 262 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: You can make people laugh. People are also going through 263 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: awful things out there. Yes, you have gone through an 264 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: awful thing, and yes you need to process it. But 265 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: have have you during this time gone and looked at 266 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: someone someone's comedy special, or or watch someone's thing that 267 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: made you laugh and gave you a little bit of hope. 268 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure they went through the same kind of darkness. 269 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: You need to keep passing it around like that's part 270 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: of what's going to help get the grief out of 271 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: you is to find a way. He goes, I don't 272 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: know how you're gonna do it, but try to find 273 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: a way to talk about it and if not, make 274 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: it funny, make it understandable, and make it empathetic. So 275 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: with that mindset, that's why I started going back on 276 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: stage like seven eight months later. It was funny when 277 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: my well not funny. I mean, it's like you're making 278 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: death funny. It's just right there. There's there's sort of 279 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: ironically ridiculous things surrounding death, you know, that are just insane. 280 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: And I knew that when I I mean, I was 281 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: alone when my mom pat I was with her when 282 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: she died, and you know, just recounting what that looked 283 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: like was so hysterically funny in my opinion, because it 284 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: was so odd. And when I went in to go 285 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: see her before the cremation, you know, she said in 286 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: the box and I was alone in the room, and 287 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: I kept thinking like she was just gonna jump up 288 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: and and and then I realized I hadn't. I had 289 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: only picked out a top for her, I hadn't picked 290 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: out a bottom. I'm so I'm looking at thinking and 291 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm thinking, no, that that can't be like 292 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: but and I was like, I have to look, I 293 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: just have to look. Had no pants on it. Oh 294 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, So I looked in it time. When 295 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: I wrote about it in a book, I called it, 296 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: look Mom, no pants, Hey, Mom, sending you into the 297 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: afterlife with no pants? You know, without that, she would 298 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: have appreciated that, right. I remember a year after Michelle 299 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: passed away, I went to visit her stone, you know, 300 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: and I would visit her stone and speak with her, 301 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: and but this is like one year, so I wanted 302 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: to let her know that, you know, things are okay, 303 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: and Alice is okay. And I'm sitting there and there 304 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: is a adorable, adorable um Asian family gathered around a 305 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: stone like one of their family members, like a hundred 306 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: yards away, and they have brought food like it's a 307 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: whole day, like they're there with their loved one and 308 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: that's it's beautiful. But they had brought a boom box 309 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: and they were blaring Selene Dion's My Heart Will Go 310 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: On and it was so trebly. There was no base 311 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: on this thing and it was just like this screeching. 312 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: It's felt like somebody was playing that song but on 313 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: a dentist drill, and it was just filling the air. 314 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to talk with her and I and 315 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: I eventually I think I said a version of listen, 316 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit in my car and like you're 317 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: a ghost, you can like fly with me. Just come 318 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: over there to the car and we'll talk. I cannot 319 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: listen to this song like that. It was so and 320 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: I didn't give the family the stink face. That's the way. 321 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: I'd never judge how people mourn. And they were together 322 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: and happy. But I was chased back into my car 323 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: by Selene Dion's My Heart Will Go On because they 324 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: could not listen to it anymore. They had it on 325 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: a loop. Brook. It was on a loop. It was 326 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: all they were playing. No, no, it was well maybe 327 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: it was her. Yeah. Again, I'm not going to judge 328 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: how people born. But good lord, wow, get some base, 329 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: for God's sake, get some base. I have found that, UM, 330 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: grief definitely changes us. Boy, how do you think it's 331 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: changed to you? Um? It has made me much more 332 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: open to maybe wage less judgmental about what affects people 333 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: and makes them either sad or happy, because I had 334 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: to be very open about you know, if this is 335 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: making me happy right now and getting me through the day, 336 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: then good it got me past all that coolness like 337 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: if someone tells me that something is hurting them or 338 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: bother them. I used to be guilty of doing the 339 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: well that you shouldn't be bothered by that that's not important. 340 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: But now I'm very much about let me hear what 341 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: it is, that's why it's bothering you, Like I'll know, 342 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: or I'll just accept it, no judgments, and then I'll 343 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: talk about it, rather than or like, oh, you're listening 344 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: to that music, like who if it's making someone happy, 345 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: who cares it's helping? Who cares what they're listening to 346 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: as long as I'm making them happy? So it really 347 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: it really blew me out of that whole thing of 348 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: like you know, Like like now when I get interviewed, um, 349 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: because I I love movies and people ask me, what 350 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: are your guilty pleasures, I'm like, I've I've stopped having 351 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: guilty pleasures. If I like something, there's no guilt to it. 352 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: If a movie works, I'm I'm into it. I don't 353 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: I don't judge it anymore. Has it changed their view 354 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: of comedy in general and your comedy? I mean it definitely. 355 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: I don't know if that it changed my I mean, 356 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: I still you. I still have the same voice that 357 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: I have. It just I've experienced more things that I 358 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: can think about it. It it expanded the canvas of 359 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: my experience. I cursed the lesson and bless the knowledge. 360 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: I I got some insight into some stuff that I 361 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: would have been very happy not to have had insight into. 362 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,239 Speaker 1: But now that I do, I'm trying to use it 363 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: for good. I guess so, you know. But but there's 364 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: that thing of like, hey, I don't know if I 365 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: don't wanna let me go through that. When did you 366 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: notice that you were falling in love with this woman 367 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: who is going to become eroer and your daughter's person. Well, 368 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: here's how I met Meredith. Um. We have a lot 369 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: of friends in common, and one of the friends we 370 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: have in common is an actress named Martha Plimpton. Love her. 371 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: Martha rules. Yeah, And Martha is one of those Queen 372 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: Bee connectors. Everyone knows her and she has these salons 373 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: at her house where she'll have a dinner and invite 374 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: various people to watch them interact. And she had a 375 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: thing said the February after Michelle passed, where she was like, hey, come, 376 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: I have a dinner at the house and I think 377 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: I was either traveling that day or I was traveling 378 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: and got delayed and stuck in it, and I could 379 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: but I couldn't go. And Meredith was one of the 380 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: people that was going to be there because she's they've 381 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: known each other since, say we're teenagers. So I couldn't go. 382 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: And then Meredith like sent me and said, hey, you 383 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: missed the best lasagna ever. And then I message her 384 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: back like, oh, hey, story in my life, and then 385 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: like yeah, and then we just started talking. It was 386 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: like at nine o'clock at night, We're just texting back 387 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: and forth, nothing flirty, just talking. And then the next 388 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: night around nine I'd like sent her, Hey, what are 389 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: you doing right now? And so one of the things 390 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: that I'm of the many things I missed about Michelle 391 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: was that you found I had found someone. And this 392 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: is what everyone you know when you're really deeply loved. 393 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: It's someone you can talk to at the end of 394 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: the day in the dark. At the end of the day, 395 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: you lie next to him in the the dark and we 396 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: talk to them and suddenly, here's this I'm just interacting 397 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: with this mind and this personality. We're not talking on 398 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: the phone. We're not talking face to face, it's just texting. 399 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: And we started doing that every night for three months. 400 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: We never spoke on the phone, never met, just got together. 401 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: I put Alice to sleep and then we would just 402 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: talk for like two hours and then we just sort 403 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: of fell in love doing it. Is there one thing 404 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: that just does a family that you, you and Meredith 405 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: have created that you were the most proud of. Wow, 406 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: that's a good question. Well, we always do a thing. 407 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we name our rose, 408 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: bud and thorn, which is what was the rose of 409 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: the day? What was the rose of the day, what's 410 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: the what's the bud? What are you looking forward to? 411 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: And then what was the thorn? And we connect on 412 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: that and so we just trade those off. And then 413 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: we also um a lot of we we have a 414 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: lot of board game traditions. We are very much a 415 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: board game family. There's a lot of that going on. 416 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: But also we were, you know, Meredith and I are 417 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 1: still I think we're because we're creatives. Were still very 418 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: much connected to what it was like to be a 419 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: little kid and then start moving into your teenage years. Alice, 420 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: we still all love each other, but Alice is thirteen now, 421 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: and she wants to hang out with her friends. And 422 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: I know a lot of my friends when their kids 423 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: stop wanting to hang out as much, they kind of 424 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: take it personally. It's like, no, that's actually a healthy 425 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: thing that they're doing. They're supposed to separate from you 426 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: a little bit and start to mold themselves. That's part 427 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: of growing up. So it's it's exciting to see that, 428 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: to see the kind of person she's becoming, and to 429 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: get out of her way. I mean, I you know, 430 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: my daughter's just living her life at college, and you know, 431 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: and and it breaks your soul, it breaks your heart. 432 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: And yet you know, if you've done it right, that's 433 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: what you want them to do. Yes, but yet but 434 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, it's what that's why they're um. Those toy 435 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: story movies I think really hit people hard. That no 436 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: one was ready for that, because toys, the toy story 437 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: phones are about being a parent. It's your this toy 438 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: for this kid, and the kid outgrows you and and 439 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: you you know that's that that that line that Tom 440 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: Hank says, You're like, he's going to get sicky you 441 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: and that where he goes. I know. But I wouldn't 442 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: miss this. I still wouldn't miss this. And you're like, 443 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: oh god, you know, it's just that that's exactly what 444 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: being a parent is. Oh I just bummed you out. 445 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. No, not at all, it is It's 446 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm living it. Um. I still have a sixteen 447 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: year old um and has the eye rolling startup, has 448 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: the we're just getting the beginning of the eye rolling. 449 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: That's nothing. That is the tip of the iceberg. And 450 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: that's another another part of it too. There's a lot 451 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: of that. There's a lot of that. I'm like, what's 452 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: what's some got something in your throat? How is school's good? Yeah, 453 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: it's good. Things are good, they're fine, fine good? Or 454 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: what about what mama? Everything? I was like, is that 455 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: up too syllables? Mama. I'm like, it's just there's a 456 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of that going. Um oh yes. So again, that's 457 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: so I think they have to learn how to individuate, 458 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: and they don't know how to so they have to 459 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: find reasons to hate us. Um. I think just hi 460 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: separating absolutely thinks yep, dang it. Switching back to comedy 461 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh, we're sort of in a very 462 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: weird time and in comedy, and I cannot even imagine. 463 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 1: Talk to me about where comedy is and how do 464 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: you deal with it. Well, we're in a weird time 465 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: in comedy, but we're not in a new time. There 466 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: have been versions of this in the past. Whenever there 467 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: is a new generation coming up that is more attuned 468 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: to things that we're either not spoken about in the 469 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: past or we're not as a tune to, there are 470 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: people that will dig in and go yeah. But I 471 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: should still be able to do this because well, you know, 472 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: any art from, any art from has got to mutate 473 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: and evolve and grow. And you know, one thing I 474 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: always remember when when for years, for years, African American 475 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: people were like, you know, we're abused by the police, 476 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: and they do, and people are like, oh, this is 477 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: just being made up. And then the police started wearing 478 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: cameras and lo and behold, there's all this footage of 479 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: police abuse. So I tend to air on the side 480 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: of one of my one of the minority groups says 481 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: something is happening that I tend to now listen to them. 482 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: So you know, as far as like you know, trans 483 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: or or queer or anyone on the gender spectrum is saying, hey, 484 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of hidden abuse and invisible abuse that 485 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: you don't see. I tend to want to listen to 486 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: that because because I had been so blind to stuff before. 487 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: So um, if I got to adjust how I'm funny, 488 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: then then I can adjust. I can. You know, I'm 489 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: a comedian. You can write new stuff. I mean, you 490 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,719 Speaker 1: also got a lot of flat talking about these topics. 491 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: You've got a lot of flak for for posting a 492 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: photo with Dave Chappelle. The flak for posting the photo. 493 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: I got the flak from certain quarters for then going, hey, 494 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: he's still my friend. I still think he's a genius. 495 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: I don't agree with his stance on trans people, and 496 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: that's gonna And I realized that posting that um may 497 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: have hurt the feelings of some of my trans friends 498 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: that I have, and I just wanted to clear that 499 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: up there, and and that just that that nuance freaked 500 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: people out. You know, there's this there's this weird culture 501 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: now of cruelty for clout and also this weird culture 502 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: of no apologies. Ever. I'm like, I cannot imagine living 503 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: a life with zero regrets or zero apologies. That is 504 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: science fiction that just doesn't exist. And they've made this 505 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: fantasy because what they're hearkening back to was there was 506 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: a time when a certain economic level of straight white 507 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: male didn't have to ever apologize or explain anything. And 508 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: I think there's a generation of of young men that 509 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: feel like I should have had a turn at that. 510 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: It's like, well, you know, those days were horrible, though? 511 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: Is that because I'm curious about how do you reconcile 512 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: a friendship when there's such polarizing opinions? Just because I 513 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: have I really really try to see. There's just so 514 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: much good and value in everybody, even people that I 515 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: don't necessarily like. I mean, Davis is one I really 516 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: like and I think is genuinely brilliant. But it's the century, 517 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: but we're starting to act like it's the ninth century, 518 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: where we're literally dividing ourselves up into feudal camps. And 519 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: if you have this one opinion you agree with, it 520 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: must mean you must be with these opinions, and that, 521 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: to me is insane. People are complex and and that's 522 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: what makes life fun. And if we're gonna if it's 523 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,239 Speaker 1: gonna be reduced to blue shirts versus red shirts, if 524 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: it's going to be, you know, a snowball fight by 525 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: five year olds, then we're on a very very bad path. 526 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: What's amazing is if you read the thing that I wrote, 527 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: when I wrote my thing about the photo with Dave, 528 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: it's me embracing the fact that I'm in this difficult 529 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: position and a lot of us are, and all these 530 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: people that are always about the truth, and you've gotta 531 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: be a reels like I'm actually being real because this 532 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: is really awkward and hard to talk about. But again, 533 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: nuance now is looked at as weakness. Empathy has looked 534 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: at his weakness, Doubt and self reflection and struggling is 535 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: looked at his weakness. But to me, that's always meant strength. 536 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: To quote James Carville, We're gonna have to let the 537 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: actionary tables do their job. There's gonna be this's gonna 538 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: need to be some generations of people that need to 539 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: just I know that's a terrible thing to say, but 540 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: in order to move us forward, it's like we gotta 541 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: kind of call generations. Well, there was just this is 542 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: so I can't believe I'm citing this. This is so weird. 543 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: There's a Rank and Bass special remember Rudolph the Red 544 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: Nose Reindeer and all those little animated special Yeah, so 545 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: they made one called Santa Claus Is Coming to Town 546 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: and it's basically like Santa Claus Year one. It's his 547 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: origin story. And then the villain is this guy, the 548 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: Burger Burgermeister, Meister Burger Um remember him, And he's like, 549 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: there's no Christmas and Santa has to become like an 550 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: outlaw re member and and then at the end Santa 551 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: Claus never really defeats Burgermeister. He just goes, I'll just 552 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: move up north and change my name and come at night. 553 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: And then so and then then this this little kids like, 554 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: so what happened to the Burger Meister Meister Burger And 555 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: they're like, well, they kind of stayed in power, but 556 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: then the family just sort of died out and everyone 557 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: just kind of forgot about it. Like it was that 558 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: thing of like, no, sometimes you don't defeat the big villain. 559 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes the villain is defeated after the villain is dead, 560 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, but I was like, 561 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: I can't believe that is the most weirdly mature thing 562 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: to have any children's cartoon of like how did he 563 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: defeat them? Oh he didn't. He just eventually died and 564 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: everyone ignored him like he was just like wow, and 565 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: that happens with people. I so funny because I remember 566 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: him for some reason. I remember him turning sweet. No, 567 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: that was the evening. Oh my god, I'm such a nerd. 568 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: There was an evil ice wizard, remember the ice Wizards, 569 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: And then Santa gives him a the But then Santa 570 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: gives him a toy. He gives him a gift. He's like, 571 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: no one's ever got given me a gift, and it 572 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: melts his heart and he becomes nice. That's what I'm 573 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: getting them confused with. But thank you for clearing that up. 574 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: I loved um. I lived in Rudolph with cute. I 575 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: was always haunted by the the Island of Misfit Toys 576 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: because yes, the train has square wheels, I get it, 577 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: Yes it's a try. But then there's just this dolly there, 578 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: like she doesn't really like was she murdering people? Why 579 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: is she managed to this island? Like the other toys 580 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: are mouth octioning? But what was her deal? I don't 581 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: want to know. That's it for us today. If you 582 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: want to hear more from Patton Oswalt. Check out his 583 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: newest comedy special We All Scream, streaming now on Netflix. 584 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: If you want to hear more from me, well you 585 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: have to subscribe to this show Now What with Brookshields 586 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 587 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 1: you get your favorite shows. Now What is produced by 588 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: the wonderful Julia Weaver with help from Darby Masters. Our 589 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by 590 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: Bahid Fraser and Christian Bowman. A special thanks to nicky 591 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: Etre and Will Pearson