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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Neukleman.

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Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called

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Speaker 2: The bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,

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Speaker 2: presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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Speaker 2: as the place as we explore. So we've got we've

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Speaker 2: got a few things that we've got to do, Dwayne

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Speaker 2: right off the top that I usually always forget to

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Speaker 2: the to the end.

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Speaker 1: But welcome to the Bear Grease Render.

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Speaker 3: We are.

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Speaker 2: There's a Meat Eater Lie tour that's coming up, a

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Speaker 2: couple of couple of housekeeping things we got to talk about.

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Speaker 2: First Meat Eater Live Tour coming in December. Tickets go

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Speaker 2: on sale next week. Oh really, Yes, tickets go on

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Speaker 2: sale next week. When do they announce the dates? Do

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Speaker 2: you know you got the insider trading info on that

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Speaker 2: next week, which would be the like the twenty in

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Speaker 2: the twenties of September. Whenever that week is, and uh,

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Speaker 2: We're going to Birmingham, Nashville, Tennessee. Birmingham, Alabama, Nashville, Tennessee, Memphis, Tennessee, Fayetteville, Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: which Barry Newcomb is going to be one of our guests.

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Speaker 2: And there's another secret guests that we're not gonna say

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Speaker 2: who's going to be there that I promise you you're

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Speaker 2: going to be. Glad is there and uh Dallas, Texas

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Speaker 2: in Houston, Austin, Austin seven seven cities, seven nights in

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Speaker 2: a row. And if you go to the mediator dot

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Speaker 2: com slash tour, you can sign up for an email

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Speaker 2: that will allow you to get first DIBs at the tickets.

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Speaker 2: That's the way this works. So you know, at some

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Speaker 2: point they'll just go and sell to the general public

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Speaker 2: and you can just go and buy them. But if you,

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Speaker 2: if you, if you go to that meat eater, the

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Speaker 2: mediator dot com slash tour, put your email in there,

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Speaker 2: they'll send you a deal where you can order them

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Speaker 2: before and I really think a lot of these shows

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Speaker 2: are gonna sell out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: So it's in the Media Live Tour. We've we've done

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Speaker 2: it several years and it's really fun. Steve Vanella, y'as

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Speaker 2: who tell us myself, h Randall, Randall and Brent Reeves.

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Speaker 2: Did I say Brent already? In every every place has

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Speaker 2: a special guest and it's like a variety show. There's

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Speaker 2: gonna be music, there's gonna be trivia, We're gonna give

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Speaker 2: away a bunch of stuff. There's gonna be storytelling, there's

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Speaker 2: gonna be audience participation and contests. It's it's a hoot.

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Speaker 2: It's a it's a hoot. We've done it all over

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Speaker 2: the country and it's a ton of fun. And they're

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Speaker 2: all different. Everyone's different. But I'm very, very much so

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Speaker 2: believing that the South is going to come come in

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Speaker 2: the South.

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Speaker 3: And what's that the South carise Again.

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Speaker 2: I didn't say that, but the South will dominate the

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Speaker 2: out hooting contests we have. Typically we have an out

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Speaker 2: hooting contest. I haven't heard that we're going to do that.

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Speaker 2: So here speculate.

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Speaker 4: Here's my question for you. What city is going to

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Speaker 4: have the best out hooters?

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Speaker 1: Uh? I think they're Texas won't, but all the others will.

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Speaker 1: Where in Tennessee it would be my guess.

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Speaker 2: I'd say I'd say Alabama and Tennessee faible, Arkansas will

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Speaker 2: be just it'll be at the lower tier of Southern states. Wow,

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Speaker 2: it will Man's a kick in the shin, but it's

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Speaker 2: just the truth. I mean, I'm I'm, I'm I'm Arkansas

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Speaker 2: is I mean, we're like we're like in this part

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Speaker 2: of Arkansas, like pretty close to not being in the South.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just the truth.

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Speaker 2: As much as I hate to say, and and our

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Speaker 2: Turkey population for the last decade almost a half generation

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Speaker 2: has been so low that I think fathers aren't teaching

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Speaker 2: their kids how to out hooot.

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Speaker 3: It's hard. Now.

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Speaker 2: I taught my son how to al hoot ye. So

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Speaker 2: that's just my prediction. I mean, we're going to be

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Speaker 2: way better like we last year. We were in like

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Speaker 2: San Diego, Sacramento, Portland, Boise.

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Speaker 4: And I was in I was at the show in

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Speaker 4: in California and.

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Speaker 1: Anaheim Anaheim, California.

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Speaker 4: The al hooting contest was pretty abysmal.

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Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I love those people so much, and

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of like asking it would kind of

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Speaker 2: be like if somebody, you know, came no offense to

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Speaker 2: the Anaheimers this part of Arkansas and was like, who's

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Speaker 2: really good at playing soccer?

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Speaker 1: And we were like, well, we don't.

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Speaker 2: We don't really play a lot of soccer or you know,

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Speaker 2: my generation and be like, well kick this ball and

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Speaker 2: let's see how you do. And it's like, well, we

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Speaker 2: don't really do that. That's kind of what it's like

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Speaker 2: going out there asking them to out, you know, but

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 3: I would.

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Speaker 2: It's my prediction that the out that the worst out

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Speaker 2: hooter at those places would probably win in any of

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Speaker 2: those cities out there. But it's not their fault. It's

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Speaker 2: not a character it's not it's not a character judgment.

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Speaker 2: But so looking forward to the Meat Eater Live Tour,

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Speaker 2: a couple of I'm gonna I can't wait to introduce

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Speaker 2: my guests.

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm afraid you're going to point out me and say,

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Speaker 3: give you your best bar now over. I'm over here, shaken.

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Speaker 3: I have done them, and I've been at an introduction.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, we're gonna get to that. We're gonna get

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Speaker 2: to your bar nowt Hey, this white Tail Week is

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Speaker 2: coming up at Meat Eater. John When is Meat Eaters

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Speaker 2: White til.

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Speaker 3: We September twenty ninth through October fifth.

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Speaker 2: Great, I want to show you the new Uh look

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Speaker 2: at this man, this is this is really cool. This

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Speaker 2: is a this is the new and improved acorn Grunner

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Speaker 2: from Phelps. I truly believe it's the best deer call

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Speaker 2: ever made, but it's made out of oceage. This year,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So it's a it's a it's a

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Speaker 2: dual call. It's a buck grunt and a doe bleed

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Speaker 2: in one call inhale exhale. That's what I asked Jason

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Speaker 2: to make three years ago. First year we made him

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Speaker 2: out of oak, which is the only year we're ever

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Speaker 2: going to do it.

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Speaker 1: They'd be like they're like collectors of this year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, and the oak was a little bit unstable.

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Speaker 2: Oh and then we made one out of u uh,

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Speaker 2: it was an acrylic ma crilic. We made one that

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Speaker 2: was a cryllic and I really liked the acrylic one.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a lifetime call, but the sound was

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Speaker 2: a little different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This this year we went to oceage burnt oceage. So

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Speaker 2: it's you know, they they burn it and then it's

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Speaker 2: got just like a matt finish on it. But uh,

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Speaker 2: and so you can that's slick if you if you blow,

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Speaker 2: I mean you know there's one side where you blow

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Speaker 2: grunt suck for a bleat. You flip it around and

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Speaker 2: it's opposite blow for a bleat, suck for a grunt

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Speaker 2: and you know you can adjust the reeds and everything, but.

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Speaker 3: Can you adjust the reason growth?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you just you just take it apart, check

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Speaker 2: that and adjust the reads. And I mean that's pretty

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Speaker 2: that's pretty common amongst deer calls there.

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Speaker 4: But would you say that if you don't have that call,

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Speaker 4: you probably won't kill a deer this year.

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Speaker 2: No, No, there's a lot of calls out there. I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not even gonna go that low. It's

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Speaker 2: just it's just like anything. It's just like duck hunting.

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Speaker 2: It's just like turkey calls. I mean, a lot of

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Speaker 2: grunt calls will call in a deer. This is just

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Speaker 2: this is just a cool call. One thing I just

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Speaker 2: know just about that call. Hold that up for a second,

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Speaker 2: is that you can put the lanyard on either side

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Speaker 2: so it dangles so that it's a predictable when you

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Speaker 2: pick it up.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's that's that's the idea.

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Speaker 2: That good point, Josh, is that you you basically we

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Speaker 2: we thought about putting like a word on either side

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Speaker 2: so you would know, but it was just a little complicated.

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Speaker 1: Just you just make the call adjusted the way you want.

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Speaker 2: So if you want your lanyard on like the so

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Speaker 2: when you blow it, blow grunt side, you know. But uh,

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Speaker 2: but I use a dough bleat all the time. Like

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Speaker 2: guys always talk about grunt calls, I've called in way

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Speaker 2: more dear with a dough bleed. I personally have just

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Speaker 2: the way that I'm hunting. And I'm also oftentimes in

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Speaker 2: the early season trying to call in a dough to

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Speaker 2: shoot her. And so a buck grunt on October first

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Speaker 2: to a dough is not most likely going to be

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Speaker 2: that appealing to her. But man, you you bleeded a

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Speaker 2: dough out there at fifty sixty yards on October the

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Speaker 2: first around here, fair chance she's gonna come check you out.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you know the but October the

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Speaker 4: first happens to fall during meat eaters White tail Week.

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Speaker 1: Are you sure the burnt o sage looks good on it?

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Speaker 1: Does that look good?

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Speaker 4: It looks really nice?

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Speaker 2: Well, this is a great This is a great time

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Speaker 2: to introduce our guest, Dwayne Hayda from Yaleville, Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: Sir, glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's nice to meet you. This is the

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Speaker 2: first time that we've met. But you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: my dad.

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Speaker 3: I do. I do from way back in my days

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Speaker 3: of Mina. Okay, do we have this right? Yeah? But

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Speaker 3: the right person and everything? Yeah, yeah, pretty sure. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: I taught school down to Mina down there and loved

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Speaker 3: it and knew of your dad anyways.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then you've met Bear in recent years.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have. And what an introduction. You've got a

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Speaker 3: fine young man there, I tell you, he's He's helped

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Speaker 3: me with the boys that I do with my group.

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Speaker 3: And I love seeing youth that are on purpose and

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Speaker 3: and got skills, and you see my pleasure. Man.

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Speaker 2: Well, so give me give me a general introduction of

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Speaker 2: what you do.

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Speaker 3: I know you have.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna let Josh do that. Josh,

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Speaker 2: how would you introduce Dwayne Hayden and somebody that.

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Speaker 4: Dwayne Hayden is a fly fisherman, an artist, a mentor.

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Speaker 4: I know his son in law, so he's a great

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Speaker 4: father in law. I mean, just a he's a renaissance man.

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Speaker 4: He's an outdoor renaissance traditional archer, traditional archer.

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Speaker 1: I love that traditional archer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how I would introduce Dwayne Hayden. Just an

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Speaker 4: incredible artist.

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Speaker 3: We have a.

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Speaker 4: We have a beautiful rainbow trout license plate for the

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Speaker 4: state of Arkansas. He made that that piece of artwork

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Speaker 4: for our and everything.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so you're but you live on the White

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Speaker 2: River a couple hours.

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Speaker 3: I actually live closer to the Buffalo River. But my

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Speaker 3: I have a business which is Rivertown Gallery. That's my

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Speaker 3: art studio, and I have a gallery. It's open to

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Speaker 3: the public, and that's in the Mountain Home area near

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Speaker 3: the White River. So but I'm very familiar with the

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Speaker 3: White River and all. But my home is tucked out

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Speaker 3: on what to call Pendleton Ridge, which is down near Rush, Arkansas,

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Speaker 3: kind of going down Highway fourteen South. It's a thirty

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Speaker 3: five mile drive to town every day, but I love it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So town for you is Mountain Home.

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Speaker 3: Yellville really Yellville? Yeah, yeah, I'm closer to Yellville, but

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Speaker 3: my business is in Mountain Home. Just because there's people

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Speaker 3: in Mountain Home, they're not very fun.

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Speaker 2: So what have you done? What have you done career wise?

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Speaker 2: You've told your team short off.

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Speaker 3: I do have a degree in art education from UCA

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Speaker 3: and my first teaching position was in Mina, Arkansas, and

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Speaker 3: I stayed there almost five years. What years were we there,

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one to eighty five, I think, or something

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Speaker 3: like that or eighty five anyway, early early ages. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and loved it. That's a if I didn't live where

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Speaker 3: I live now, I'd probably live back down there. I

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Speaker 3: love it because it's so wild and access to the

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Speaker 3: mountains and things that I love. Anyway, but I got

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Speaker 3: I'm you know, I've always been in an outdoorsman and

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Speaker 3: angle and fly fishing was something that was just big

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Speaker 3: and my life and loved it. And so I got

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Speaker 3: an opportunity. I was teaching some fly fishing classes for

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Speaker 3: Rich Mountain Community College of all things. And see these

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Speaker 3: guys from Fort Smith were coming down taking the class

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Speaker 3: from me, and they were opening a business up there

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Speaker 3: in Fort Smith. And they kind of dangled a care

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Speaker 3: in front of me and said, how much do you

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Speaker 3: want to teach the rest of your life? You want

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Speaker 3: to do what you really love to do, and gave

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Speaker 3: me an opportunity. And I have a understanding why. She said,

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Speaker 3: I'll go anywhere that you feel God's leading me, but

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Speaker 3: to make sure, and so I jumped and took it,

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Speaker 3: and it's all made a difference, and.

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Speaker 1: So I I what was that business.

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Speaker 3: The business was of actually being a fly fishing guide.

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Speaker 3: I worked in Hebrew Springs, Arkansas. We and then we'd

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Speaker 3: go back and forth between Fort Smith and I do

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Speaker 3: a lot of work with that group there, and then

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Speaker 3: eventually we came on up to the White River and

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Speaker 3: I guided heavily there for years anyway, about thirty two

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Speaker 3: years as a professional fly fishing guide. And but along

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Speaker 3: the way I always did my art. But it was

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Speaker 3: kind of interesting how my guiding was here. My art

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Speaker 3: was just kind of for a few clients and that

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Speaker 3: type of thing. And then as I've gotten older and everything,

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Speaker 3: the flyfish guiding business has kind of switched and the

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Speaker 3: art business has really taken off. And that's just been

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Speaker 3: an amazing blessing for me to be able to make

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Speaker 3: my living with what I love to do. And and

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Speaker 3: my son in law now has really taken over the

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Speaker 3: guiding aspect, and he's he's young, and he's energetic and

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Speaker 3: good at it. So it's been an amazing couldn't have

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Speaker 3: scripted it better for what I do anyway, But art

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Speaker 3: and fly fishing, those two things as far as for

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Speaker 3: the income, and you know, but everybody always says you know,

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Speaker 3: the definition of a successful artist is an artist whose

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Speaker 3: spouse has a good job, you know, so thank god

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Speaker 3: my wife was teaching school, and you know, because it's

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Speaker 3: not easy. I mean, it's you know there. But I

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Speaker 3: am blessed to I think now, not that I've arrived

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Speaker 3: or anything, but least it's making a good living for me,

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Speaker 3: and I enjoy that. And I feel very blessed to

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Speaker 3: describe your art to us. Well, my art is my passion.

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Speaker 3: So if you know me and the hunting and the

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Speaker 3: fishing and being an ozark's boy, and that's you know.

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Speaker 3: I had a professor in college. He said, never waste

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Speaker 3: your time painting what you don't have a passion for.

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Speaker 3: And that makes a lot of sense because I did

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Speaker 3: a commission painting for somebody the other day and he

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Speaker 3: wanted a duck hunting scene. And I'm like, I'm not

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Speaker 3: duck hunting right now. And you know, now, if you

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Speaker 3: told me in January to do it and everything, I'd

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Speaker 3: probably have my full soul and passion into it. So

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Speaker 3: I paint for me if I like driving up here,

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Speaker 3: I see these beautiful mountains. I got here early. I

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Speaker 3: walking up down West Fork on the White and everything,

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Speaker 3: and just seeing the way the lights playing on the

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Speaker 3: water and watching some small mouths swim around and various things.

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Speaker 3: So I start getting that building concept and inspiration within me,

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Speaker 3: and I can't rest till I painted out. So those

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Speaker 3: are my best paintings is when it comes from truly me.

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Speaker 3: That's that's my artistic voice and my artistic voice. When

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Speaker 3: you come in my gallery, it shouldn't take you long

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Speaker 3: to figure out who Dwayne Hate is. He likes small

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Speaker 3: mouth bass, he likes the Ozark Mountains. He likes the

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Speaker 3: birds and the beer and the wildlife and things like that.

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Speaker 3: So I paint what I know, because you're gonna paint

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Speaker 3: best what you know and what you have a passion for.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna put your soul into that.

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Speaker 2: Would you say the the paintings that I've seen of yours,

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Speaker 2: which I've certainly not seen all of them, but they're

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Speaker 2: they're big, they're colorful, they're at least your fish. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it feels like they're really zoomed in to. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, you might have a foot wide and have

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Speaker 2: a like the whole image be of the fish, not

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Speaker 2: like the fish jumping out of the water with a

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Speaker 2: big landscape.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that's just a bias of what I've seen.

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Speaker 3: And I kind of go through stages. I guess you

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Speaker 3: might say. I've got everything from very small paintings to

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Speaker 3: huge murals that I'm doing a lot of now on

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Speaker 3: big buildings show sixty seventy foot twenty foot, you know. So,

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Speaker 3: But as far as my hanging canvas is that type

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Speaker 3: of thing, I've got one down at the restaurant in

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Speaker 3: uh Cotter, Arkansas, they commissioned me to do. That's an

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Speaker 3: underwater scene and so White Basically if you just stuck

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Speaker 3: your head under the water and the White River and

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Speaker 3: looked around the logs and saw big brown kind of

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Speaker 3: holding in his little place and some rainbows, and then

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Speaker 3: we have you know, cutthroat and a few brook trouting

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Speaker 3: that type of thing. So it's kind of that grand

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Speaker 3: slam of trout species in the White River, and it's

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Speaker 3: just sort of a little cross section of in the

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Speaker 3: field of water moving and there's crawdads and sculptings and

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Speaker 3: all that living environment in there. So that's that's a

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Speaker 3: But a lot of my paintings are above the water too,

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Speaker 3: you know. I love how the mist rises off the

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Speaker 3: river in the mornings and and just that lone angler

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Speaker 3: out there in his world. I mean, there's nothing more

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Speaker 3: peaceful than being out there and just the rhythm of

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Speaker 3: casting and searching for fish and in the river and

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Speaker 3: that type of thing. So I've I identify with that,

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Speaker 3: So I paint that and then thank god, you know,

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Speaker 3: customers walk through like, wow, that's connect to you, bet.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's that's what's going on there. You know.

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Speaker 2: I saw one of your paintings that I connected to

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Speaker 2: immediately was I can't remember the name of it, was

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Speaker 2: like Ozark Flush or Ozark Quail Hunts, Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's two guys with their backs. You can

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Speaker 2: see their their backs, and there's a dog pointing and

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Speaker 2: there's a covey rise. But what stood out to me

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Speaker 2: was with the chimney. There's an old and that's a

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Speaker 2: real place stone chimney in the background where the home

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Speaker 2: has rotted away and only the chimney remained. The reason

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Speaker 2: that's meaningful to me is those are my favorite places

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Speaker 2: out in the National Forest and when you're on just

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Speaker 2: out in the mountains and you see an old standing

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Speaker 2: chimney and just to stand there and just think who

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Speaker 2: who lived here, the kids that were raised here, Why

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Speaker 2: did they come here, why did they leave? How hard

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Speaker 2: was their life? I mean, it just it's like this

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Speaker 2: cascade of questions that probably will never be answered. And

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Speaker 2: I Dwayne, before you leave, I'm gonna have to show you.

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Speaker 2: I built a rock chimney on the other side of

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Speaker 2: my house that sets out from my house that acts

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Speaker 2: as an outdoor fire pit, but it stands alone, and

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Speaker 2: it was built to look like an old home place.

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Speaker 3: Essentially.

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Speaker 1: It was just like a hat tip to the to

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Speaker 1: the Ozarks.

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Speaker 3: I'm all about that. I love. Yeah, I know the

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Speaker 3: place and that painting, and it's amazing to the guy

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Speaker 3: that walked in. You know, I love this when you know,

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Speaker 3: I've got hundreds of paintings on the wall in the gallery,

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Speaker 3: but when somebody comes in just like a bird dog

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Speaker 3: going on point, you know. And when that guy looked

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Speaker 3: at that paint just started walking to it, I knew

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Speaker 3: I had him. You know. It was that he connected

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Speaker 3: And I mean he just walked right, took it off

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Speaker 3: the wall and just I mean did he he just

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Speaker 3: like looking at it, just mumbling to himself, walked to

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Speaker 3: the cash right and just yeah, I didn't need to.

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Speaker 3: The painting sold itself.

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Speaker 1: Now that was the Chimney painting. Yes, yes, with the

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Speaker 1: Do you have reprints with that or.

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Speaker 3: I did not? I don't, you know. I feel like

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Speaker 3: an original is something I will print some because I

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Speaker 3: know the market and all that. And I've got a

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Speaker 3: bear print that I've did for the National Bar Festival

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Speaker 3: that they do over in North Carolina. Okay, they add

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Speaker 3: me comings to artists and I painted one, so I

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Speaker 3: put that in print for longevity and more affordable pieces.

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Speaker 3: And I do things, you know, the v RBO business

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Speaker 3: and the White River Lodges is boom. So I've got

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Speaker 3: trout paintings you know, all over in them and those

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Speaker 3: are prints, you know. But I feel like when you

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Speaker 3: buy a painting you you want, it's like buying a

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Speaker 3: homemade bow or something you know you want, you bet

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Speaker 3: you want to.

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Speaker 1: That's surprising to me. Yeah, I was planning on trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to buy a print at.

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Speaker 3: Ozarkbe to get in his will.

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Speaker 1: Now that I've said I like it.

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Speaker 2: They'll jack the price up too late, take that out,

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Speaker 2: get the number of that guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So anyway, but I paint, you know, something has

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Speaker 3: to when it triggers me that painting starts building into

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Speaker 3: me and I just can't rest till I just I

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Speaker 3: just have to get in the studio and paint.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you a questions. There's so so art.

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Speaker 2: Art truly is a gifting in the very truest nature

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Speaker 2: of what we conceive as a human gift, like like

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Speaker 2: a personal capacity that isn't taught. It's just like either

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Speaker 2: have it or you don't. But gifting can be sculpted

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Speaker 2: over time and developed and grown. My question to you

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Speaker 2: as how much have you progressed in your actual skill

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Speaker 2: as a painter? So how much of it is skill

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Speaker 2: that was developed as a craft? I guess is just

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Speaker 2: the natural raw bone God given.

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Speaker 3: I get asked that a lot, and I struggle with

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Speaker 3: that because I'm all about God's gifts, okay, and and

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Speaker 3: and and obviously he instilled something in my brain, my

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Speaker 3: makeup my uniqueness. That Dwayne is that five year old

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Speaker 3: kid that couldn't leave a chalkboard alone, had to turn

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Speaker 3: over his Sunday school bulletin and drawl over the back

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Speaker 3: of it, had to if it was a blank piece

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Speaker 3: of paper. You know, I'd never did coloring books I

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Speaker 3: don't know that I've ever colored in a coloring book

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Speaker 3: as a kid, I always had to have a blank

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Speaker 3: piece of paper to create. So there's something going on

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Speaker 3: here that maybe is a little different from some of

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Speaker 3: the other kids, and that now my mom still has

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Speaker 3: some drawings I did at five or six years old,

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Speaker 3: and for a five or six year old kid, they're

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Speaker 3: pretty good. Okay. I'm a little better today, Okay, because

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Speaker 3: I have worked hard and I have strong passion, and

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Speaker 3: I have surrounded myself with some other artists that I

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Speaker 3: have fed off of to perfect my craft. Okay, and

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Speaker 3: all of us do that, I think, so to say,

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Speaker 3: Dwayne is a prodigy born walking out and I could

435
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 3: paint this if I lived in a cave somewhere and

436
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 3: never was exposed to other artists, or so you do.

437
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 3: And I'm seeing this right now. You know, the young

438
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 3: man that works with me, one of my CTO boys, Zach,

439
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 3: an amazing artist. He's he never knew he could do that, okay,

440
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 3: but he's working with me, and he's a very quiet

441
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 3: young man, but he's always over my shoulder watching and

442
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 3: then one day he just likes starts painting, and I'm like,

443
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,959
Speaker 3: whoa and it's good, and then I start encouraging him

444
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: and so it can be taught. I feel like good drawing,

445
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: realistic drawing. Okay. Now there's a lot of things out

446
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 3: there called art today that whatever that definition is. But

447
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: I'm into realism. I live in a real world, and

448
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 3: I feel like, if you're gonna paint a white tailed deer,

449
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: you had better look like a white tail deer, Okay,

450
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 3: So you better know them and you and all those

451
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 3: kind of things. Put in the right environment and get

452
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 3: the body. And the white tail is different than mule deer,

453
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: than a black tailed or key deer and all that

454
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: kind of thing. So if you're going to paint that,

455
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: you need to know something about that. But your eye

456
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: in your hand, okay. And this is what I have taught,

457
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 3: because I taught even at ASU and Mountain Home some

458
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 3: drawing classes, and I get people come in, especially ladies

459
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 3: that were older in life, and they're like, you know,

460
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 3: we used to always wanted to paint bad race, family

461
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 3: and all this, or want to draw. So they come

462
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: and take a class just as a hobby, and my goodness,

463
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: suddenly it's just like putting gas to the flame. You know,

464
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 3: it's within them, and I think there's a lot of

465
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 3: people of this and it's left brain right brain functions. Okay,

466
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 3: So if you can teach your hand to record what

467
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 3: the I sees, you can develop drawing technique. What you

468
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 3: now do is you take your history, your passion, your

469
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: creativeness and put that in with it and no tell

470
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 3: them what you can do so it it can be taught,

471
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 3: but you've got to put that passion soul into really

472
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: be an artist that shows his individual You should be

473
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: able to go in and look at somebody's sketchbook and

474
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 3: immediately tell something about them. And that when you come

475
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 3: into my gallery, you're not going to see wild, weird

476
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: abstracts and things like that. You're going to see Dwayne

477
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 3: Hay the soul out there for you to walk around

478
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: in and see what I love, okay, And I just

479
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: and I paint for myself really and I just hope

480
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 3: that enough people come in that can identify the like

481
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: like that guy did on the quail painting of the chimney.

482
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 3: You know, he connected exactly just as you did. And

483
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: thank goodness, there's enough people he did. He did, I could,

484
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 3: I might could do another one. I don't know. It's

485
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: hard and people ask me, they said, well, just paint

486
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: me another one. I'm like, that's like different. Yeah, it's

487
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 3: like you know that beautiful bow with that wood. You know,

488
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 3: to duplicate that, would you know? Because it had to

489
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 3: be I've.

490
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 2: Got the perfect analogy draining of what it's like. They

491
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: say that a memory is actually just a recollection of

492
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 2: the prior time you had that thought.

493
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: Wow, do you understand what I'm saying.

494
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: I'm trying to see you see, you see an image,

495
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: you have an experience, right, the next time you tell

496
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: that story, you're actually remembering the real thing.

497
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: Wow.

498
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: But the next time you tell.

499
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: It, you know, there's there's some equation where you're you're

500
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: actually just saying what.

501
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: You said before. Okay, do you understand?

502
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: And so by the time you're an old man, that's

503
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: the reason stories get so distorted. Sure, And why you

504
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: might be talking to your grandpa and he tells you

505
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: a story that he is adamant happened just this way

506
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: and it didn't happen that way at all. It's because

507
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 2: because the story shifted over time. Yeah, I mean for

508
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: real that That is the genesis of many of the

509
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: myths and things that have happened is just the fallacy

510
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: of our ability to recollect. So painting trying to duplicate

511
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: a painting would be like painting what you remembered of

512
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: the painting.

513
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: My paintings in the moment, and it's got to be

514
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: an original. Yeah, I agree, I understand. I like it good.

515
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: Uh, Joshua Brair, do y'all have any y'all know Dwayne

516
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: better than me? I mean, there's plenty that we could

517
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: talk about. But but uh, now, how what were you

518
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: doing with Dwayne?

519
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: Bear?

520
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,719
Speaker 2: Just Bear is a grown man now, so he just

521
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: does stuff, doesn't even talk to you. He doesn't even

522
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: tell me what he's doing anymore. He just show up

523
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: and do stuff. What were you doing with Dwayne? I'm

524
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: trying to think. I think I was over there with

525
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: Now are you? Are you remembering the actual memory or apparently.

526
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 3: Memory fish that night?

527
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, we were fishing with Kyle v with the Ozark podcast.

528
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: You met him first, meet fly fishing, I hope spinning

529
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: and sinning.

530
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: I had a guy.

531
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 4: I had a guy leave a comment this week on

532
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 4: one of the podcasts and he said he said, he said,

533
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 4: using a bait caster or a spinning rod is akin

534
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 4: to your preacher telling you the gospel using a fly

535
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 4: rod is like the Lord Jesus telling you about himself.

536
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: Oh wow, wow, what an analogy.

537
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 3: You know. If you go back to my I got

538
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: a fly rub when I was nine years old, Okay,

539
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 3: living in Moon County, Arkansas, flyfish Criocket Creek and Bear

540
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: Creek all the time, and and I didn't know anybody

541
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 3: that fly fish. There's one old man in our community

542
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: that had done a little bit, and but he also

543
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: told me before spinning rods. That's however, beding in the

544
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: Ozarks fished. If you go look at those old photos

545
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: up at Bass Pro Shop and that type of thing,

546
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: in those old John boats, there are a lot of

547
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: them fly ridding, you know, and they used to have.

548
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: There's some old Ozark lures for fly rods, like the

549
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: the hill Brandt spinner with a pork rind on the

550
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: back of a holly grove. That was an Ozark uh,

551
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: you know, that was very effective. And the water hag Okay.

552
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 1: That's supposed to be the other one. You said, was

553
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: it supposed to be a crawdad?

554
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: No, it's just a basically like what we use as

555
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: spinner bait today, you know, it's just something that made

556
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 3: vibration and noise and movement. Okay, you know, they just

557
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: hit it out of reflex more anything. But down the washtalls,

558
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: the old timers down there, that's where I came in.

559
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: Uh uh, learned what a water hag was, and it

560
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: was and the old the old float tubers you know

561
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: down on the Costa to the Mountain Fork River. Yes, uh,

562
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 3: they all fished with a water hag, you know, or

563
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: they'd use live grasshoppers a lot on it. What is

564
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: a water a water hag is? Basically it was like

565
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: a foam long bug with rubber bands sticking out the

566
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: side of it. It's just basically a top water probably

567
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: ate it for a big grasshopper or something like that.

568
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: I'm going to name a mule that water hag. That's

569
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: a good that'd be a good water hag. Yeah that

570
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 3: was that was and people still still use them anyway.

571
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 3: But anyway for me, so for fly fishing, you know,

572
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: you uh, you know river ran through it and all that,

573
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: and you know, and I worked in the fly fishing

574
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: industry and there's a whole I guess I can say

575
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: this sort of a yuppie crowd that you know, wanted

576
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: the image, the orvist image or whatever, and that's great,

577
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: not more power to them, and and they're out there

578
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: and they're doing their thing. I came at it totally

579
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: as an artist, okay, because I remember in fifth grade

580
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: sitting there looking at film Stream magazine or Outdoor Life

581
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: it was back then, and seeing these beautiful pictures of

582
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: these Colorado mountains and everything, catching the beautiful native cutthroats

583
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: and everything. And so I'd go down to Crooker Creek

584
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 3: with a fly rod that I got for my ninth birthday.

585
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: My parents, like they called an uncle of ours that

586
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: lived up Michigan, like, what the boy wants a fly rod?

587
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: What's a fly rod? You know? And they found one

588
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 3: and got it to me. In of course, it came

589
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: with no instruction. I'd beat the water to a froth

590
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: in front of the mem behind me and everything. But

591
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: I was determined to fish that way because as an artist,

592
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: you know, I'd pick up fox squirrels that I'd shot

593
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: and my mom's chickens and wrap feathers and you know,

594
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 3: and it was cool to me to make something to

595
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: go out and trick a fish with it. You know.

596
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: Now I still fish with crawdads and minnows because I

597
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: wanted to learn, and I had an older brother and

598
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 3: I had to beat him, you know. So there was

599
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: sort of a handicap, you know, somewhat with fly fishing.

600
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: But as I got older, the confidence level and the

601
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 3: skill levels, and as I got around other wonderful fly fishers,

602
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: Dave Whitlock came into my life, and my goodness, what

603
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: a mentor for me with his amazing skills and others,

604
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: and just never wanting to not learn every time the river,

605
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: every day, the river teaches you something if you let it,

606
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: and so I just absorbed everything. But for me, fly

607
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: fishing was just the art kind of traditional shooting at bow.

608
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: It's just smooth, it's fun, it's pure. That's what fly

609
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: fishing is for me. So I don't come at it

610
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: from a status. I coming at it from more of

611
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: an artist than the satisfaction. Okay, I've caught fish every

612
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 3: way you can imagine, okay, from noodland to limb lines

613
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: to snagging whatever, okay, and it's all fun and it

614
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: all produces. But there's nothing as satisfying as catching, at

615
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: least for me and a lot of people. That's why

616
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: they identify with fly fishing. There's a certain piece about it,

617
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: but there's also that satisfaction in coming with tricking a

618
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: fish with an artificial especially one that you made, and

619
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: then the rods are just so vibrant, visceral feeling. It is.

620
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: There's something spiritual almost about it, and I don't know,

621
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: it's just a it's a different type of fishing, but

622
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: you can gain and push your skill level. And I've

623
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: been very lucky my fly fishing has allowed me. I

624
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: had a business at one time where I was able

625
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: to travel and put together. I have literally fished in

626
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: a lot of places all around the world for a

627
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: lot of different species, saltwater species and some of the

628
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: famous places in Europe and even place like that. I

629
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: allowed me to coach the US first youth fly fishing

630
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: team and I'm a silver medalist, you know, the first

631
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: silver medalist anyway for the US. Yes, Olympics, Yes, there's

632
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: an Olympics. Are fish well, it's it's its own Olympics.

633
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: It's called the Phipps Mouche fly Fishing World Tournaments anyway

634
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: that they hold in different countries. The first time that

635
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: I did this, we were in the country of Wales,

636
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 3: and then we went to Ireland and it was amazing.

637
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: So it's uh, it's been now.

638
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: Is that what took you around the world fly fishing?

639
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yes it was.

640
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: It was coaching this team.

641
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: That that was part of it, and just working through

642
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 3: businesses anyway, as kind of a trip host, I advertise

643
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: trips and go I can't afford to go do all that,

644
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: so you get a group of people that can go,

645
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: and that's how you get to go. So it's been awesome.

646
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 3: I've been to Christmas Island a couple of times, well

647
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: almost to Australia. Of fly fish in England and Wales

648
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: and Ireland and.

649
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: Is there Okay, if you asked me this question as

650
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: a hunter, I could come up with an answer, even

651
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: though it wouldn't be perfect. If you could, if you

652
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: could tell about one one fish you caught a while

653
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: anywhere in the world, which one would you tell you?

654
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: It's the only story you get for the rest of

655
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: your life.

656
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: I've got two.

657
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: I knew it.

658
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: I knew I was going to do that. And then

659
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: the reason, okay, one of them. I took some guys

660
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 3: to Blize one time and they have a rare uh genetic.

661
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: It be like a pieball deer or a black squirrel

662
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: or something like that. That's pretty rare. They have something

663
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: that are called a golden bonefish and they figure it's

664
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: probably one in five thousand bonefish. And the lodge that

665
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: I went through, they would give you a free trip

666
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: if you caught one. And I caught one and it

667
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: was amazing, okay, and it's it's like the normal bonefish,

668
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: but it's like you dipped him in a champagne gold

669
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: orangeish coloration. Wow. Unique to be very unique. But they

670
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 3: didn't give me a free trip because I was hosting

671
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 3: that trip, and they said, well, your trips already free

672
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: the way they could. But I went back again the

673
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: next year and took some people. But so that was

674
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: kind of unique.

675
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: And now what country was that?

676
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: That is bleeze.

677
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: Ocean fish?

678
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: Yes, but it's in shallow water. That is the most

679
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: hunting of fishing because you are stalking and if you

680
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: step wrong and you make a wrong step, they're gone.

681
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: I mean they're in shallow water to avoid sharks and

682
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 3: they're feeding with their tails up, so you're looking for

683
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: you can walk.

684
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: You would lovetten stock.

685
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: You would love everything's spotting stock and you've got to

686
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: be a good castor you've got to hit about a

687
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: foot in front of them and usually at some distance.

688
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 3: So it's it's a skill builder. And when you hook them,

689
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 3: it's about like trying to stop a car out here

690
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: on the family.

691
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: My sun in law is from Antigua and fishing and

692
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 4: Antigua and hooked a couple of them.

693
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: Just couldn't get them to they break your line.

694
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 4: They just the I mean they just take off and

695
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 4: I mean they'll pull a boat. You know, they're about

696
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 4: this big, but they're.

697
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: Built for speed.

698
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: They have a big forktail, bone fish, bonefish.

699
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically a melanistic melon, well reverse melanism probably.

700
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: What's that word, robinistic.

701
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: There's a word for it anyway, that's kind of unique

702
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: when you don't know when it's lacks of melanism anyway.

703
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: The other one is just you know, good old home

704
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: Buffalo River.

705
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 2: My biggest small hoping I actually said, I hope his

706
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: second one is something.

707
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 3: It's always going to be. The flip pilot just passed

708
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: away and Dave Whitlock just passed away not too long ago. Great,

709
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: you're talking about the Mount Rushmore fly fishing. These are

710
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: two chisel faces that will be there, and they were people,

711
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: especially Dave Whitlock, very dear in my life anyway, And

712
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: he wrote one time in Fly Fisherman magazine that people

713
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 3: asked him that question and the greatest you know. And

714
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 3: I don't want this to sound bragging or whatever, but

715
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: he said his favorite fishing experience would be the Lower

716
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 3: Buffalo River wilderness area with a fly rod and having

717
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: me paddle that canoe down there with him. Oh wow,

718
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 3: that is special. But so I got to do that

719
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 3: with my son in law and a dear friend of mine,

720
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 3: Ben Levin, who's a fly fishing guide who guided with

721
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 3: me when he was fourteen years old, and he's from

722
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: over here in the Mulberry region where he grew up,

723
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 3: and great young man. And so we're together on this

724
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 3: float trip and this very first bend in the river

725
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: down there, and I've got to fly that tide and

726
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: I've got it down deep around a boulder, and all

727
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 3: of a sudden it gets solid. I come up and

728
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what's a good That broad's just dancing

729
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: around in the front of the boat around, and I'm like,

730
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it shoots up right in

731
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 3: between our two canoes and this mental picture of this

732
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: twenty inch golden brown. You know, I tried every way

733
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 3: to make him four pounds and he wouldn't. But these

734
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 3: in my mind he's four. But he's been a big,

735
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: big as old fish, you bet. And when I got

736
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 3: my hands on that thing, I just shook, like hold

737
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: a big buck, you know by the horns, because I mean,

738
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 3: that was my life right there. And to do that

739
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: in front of two young men that they always want

740
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 3: to catch one like that, and I did it. You know,

741
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: I was the stud for that day, you know, And

742
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 3: I got to look at that and and just to

743
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 3: hold that fish and I'm like, man, you're gonna kill

744
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: it if you don't, you know. But but just to

745
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 3: look at in the eye and just think everything it

746
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 3: took for that small amount to go from fry to

747
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: you know that biologists tell me that fish was probably

748
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 3: a minimum of sixteen years old. You know, they they

749
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: live long lives. A lot of people don't understand them.

750
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 3: With smallmouth bass, how fragile. I'm really working with the

751
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: game and fish now, trying to just left with the

752
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: biologist and everything, because they need to make regulations if

753
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: we're going to have big small mouth and numbers. Yeah,

754
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: we kill them all faster than they can grow, is

755
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: a simple thing. So we need to we need to

756
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: be very protective. So I eased him back in, and

757
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: what a great I mean, my soul just went with

758
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 3: that fish as he went down in the rocks, and

759
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: I just pulled back and said, I'm done. We got

760
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 3: a three day trip, I said, you boys, you know

761
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 3: how paddle the canoe, and no one else caught one.

762
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: They caught some seventeen inches, but nobody came close on

763
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: that whole trip anyway, three day lower buffalo. So that's

764
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: that fish will always be etched in my what year

765
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 3: was up? It's been about five years ago, so yeah,

766
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: fairly recent. Yeah.

767
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh that's a great that's a great story.

768
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 3: Yeah. So of all the places I've been, I think,

769
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: you know, they say there's no place like home. You

770
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 3: can't take the Ozarks out of the boy, you know,

771
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: And that's to me. I think we have some of

772
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 3: the beautiful, most beautiful and unique fishing. Uh you know

773
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: you can have. I'll be anywhere right here in the Ozarks.

774
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: So give me one last day, I'll probably you probably

775
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: stay home. I'll stay home. It's pretty good.

776
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dwayne's also an incredible fly tire. I've got a story.

777
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: I fished the the uh the Odyssey. So there's a

778
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 4: fly fishing tournament where it's an all species tournament. The

779
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 4: goal is to catch the most number of species. And

780
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 4: Dwayne Hayda it makes everyone look like a joke when

781
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 4: he competes in this thing. Oh yeah, I heard it,

782
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 4: but I fish that. And then for my daughter's sixteenth birthday,

783
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 4: we did a family trip to Hawaii.

784
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

785
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 4: And we went to Kawaii and I wanted to do

786
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 4: some fly fishing out there, and so I called a

787
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: guid and I said, I really like to go bone fishing.

788
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: He said, well, the bone fishing is not real great

789
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 4: right now, but we can go small mouthfishing. And I said,

790
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: small mouth fishing in Kawaii and he's like sure. So

791
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: I set it up. My wife and I had to

792
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: go fly fish.

793
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: Now.

794
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 4: Mind you, this is like three days after the Odyssey.

795
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: And we meet the guide, super nice guy. We trek

796
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 4: through the jungle. We're standing in front of this probably

797
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty foot waterfall in this deep pool.

798
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 4: Beautiful and uh, he pulls out the flyer on he

799
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 4: hands it to me, and he reaches in his fly

800
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 4: box and he pulls pulls out a fly and ties

801
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 4: it on. I look at it and I said, is

802
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: that a Hat Creek Crawler? And he goes, yeah, man,

803
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: this fly is awesome. I said, I just fished with

804
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 4: Dwayne Hated three days ago.

805
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 3: He's like, are you kidding?

806
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: Would he have bought that from Dwayne or did he?

807
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 3: It's a production fly. I sold the rights to that

808
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: fly several years ago to W I have a I

809
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 3: have a royalty pattern out there that they I get

810
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 3: a check every so often when they you know, it's

811
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: not a whole lot. Yeah.

812
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: So I'm I'm in Kawahi the God's time on a

813
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 4: Hat Creek Crawler and I.

814
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 1: Just hated a Creek Crawl. That's a good name.

815
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know where that fly was first tied? Where

816
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: the art classroom in Mina High School with Tim Strawther

817
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: Is that right? It was one of my students. He

818
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: would come in during his lunch period and I kept

819
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: a fly tying bench set up in there, and uh,

820
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 3: I would use it so art instructional thing, and I'd

821
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: have boys that come in to eat their lunch and

822
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: watch me tie lies and I would teach them there,

823
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: and Tim Strather was one of those young men. But

824
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 3: the very first ever creek crawler was designed right there in.

825
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: That Wow and it was it was your design.

826
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yes, yes.

827
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 4: I've tied a few. I've tied a few of myself

828
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 4: that looked horrible. I just wish the very someday.

829
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: Fort Smith he ties, Brandon Bells and my son in

830
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 3: law probably tied three of the best ones. You know,

831
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 3: if you want an artistic one, I mean the making

832
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: tie you one. It'll catch a fish, you know. But

833
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 3: but there, yeah, they take it to another level.

834
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: Every time I hear the name Keith Reeves, which I've

835
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 2: never actually met Keith Reeves, but he seems like a

836
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: wonderful person. Maybe he'll hear this. I feel bad though,

837
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: because one time I took a photograph of Bear Nukem

838
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: when he was just a little boy leading a mule

839
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: across a stream. We were hunting, and Keith ree is

840
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 2: we were kind of Internet buddies, and he goes, hey,

841
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 2: where'd you take that? That looks like a good place

842
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: to fish. I know you're not a big fisherman, Clay,

843
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't tell you where.

844
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 3: That's good sorry, Keith, he would be there tomorrow. Well, no,

845
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: I know Keith very well and I have to keep

846
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 3: some secrets too, or he will he will be there.

847
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: I feel better.

848
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't have buy it him fishing there,

849
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 2: Like we've never fished there one time in my life.

850
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: But I was like, I'm gonna have to keep that

851
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: one and down load.

852
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 3: And if anybody understands that and respects that is Keith.

853
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 3: He he is a passionate voice. He has become the

854
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: Ozark smallmouth by US Alliance spokesperson's. Yeah, he's got a

855
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: great kind of where I don't want to say I've

856
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 3: burned out because I haven't. But Keith has the technology,

857
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 3: time and all to keep that alive because we have to. Uh,

858
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people. If I can even get

859
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: on any stump here at all, it would be the

860
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: fact that smallmouth bass in Ozark and wash it toss streams.

861
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 3: That's like the region from south of Saint Louis all

862
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 3: the way down into Oklahoma and down even into the Washtalls.

863
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 3: And I know you've done BO broadcasts and everything on this,

864
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: but there are definitely three distinct subspecies of smallmouth bass

865
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 3: that we have only in this region that right there

866
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 3: is worthy of protection, and we can't just keep treating

867
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 3: them like skillet food. I love to eat fish. People like, oh,

868
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: you're one of those. I'm like, no, no, no, no. We

869
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 3: were eating gator tail and bass and catfish down in

870
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: Louisiana last week. Okay. So I love to eat fish,

871
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 3: and I'll eat as you can see in any fish fry. Okay,

872
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: I'll belly up to the and I'll get after it.

873
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 3: So that's not what it is. It's about the fact

874
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: if you want to continue to have them in numbers

875
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 3: and quantity and size of any kind of sport fish free,

876
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 3: you must have some conservation in there. And the way

877
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 3: the current regulations are written, we will catch them out

878
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: and we will kill them off faster than they can grow.

879
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: They are so slow growing.

880
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't the game and fish be like instantly responsive

881
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: to that.

882
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: It's a they're better than they were. Okay. I've served

883
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: on the Smallmouth Bassed Task Force back in the nineties

884
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 3: and I helped write the regulations that we now have,

885
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: which is a two fish fourteen inch minimum in blue

886
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 3: ribbon streams, and we put one eighteen inch trophy status

887
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: on like the lower Buffalo, and I think part of

888
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 3: the Washingtall had that and few other streams that will

889
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: grow trophy size of smallmouth. There's more of us out

890
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: there nowadays than there were then doing it. They still

891
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 3: had what I think is a very archaic old regulation

892
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: in the Washtalls you can keep outside the blue ribbon

893
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 3: streams four ten inch smallmouth, well ten inch small mouth.

894
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: I mean once you fillay that you got a fish stick,

895
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 3: They're worth more than that. That fish alive part of

896
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: the system, a spawner. You know, if you want to

897
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 3: fish a stream, if you put a group of guys

898
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: ahead to you mena fishing crowdad fishing and keeping fish,

899
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: I'll guarantee you the damage they can do will take

900
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: years to replace. It will take years. I just wonder

901
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 3: who fish a fished out stream. Okay, I just came

902
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 3: from your wonderful hole here in town that probably has

903
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 3: had pressure for hundreds of years, and I was so

904
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 3: excited to see a few small mouths swimming around there.

905
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: But I'd love to run through there with some biolog

906
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: just and get an idea of just what is that

907
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 3: fish count in there and what does the population look like.

908
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 3: I don't it's it had a feel that it's been

909
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 3: pretty heavily used over the years, and the only way

910
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: it can ever recover, if it will, is through some

911
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: very serious Smallmouth bass do not respond to riggs as

912
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: fast as likes largemouth in a lake or in a

913
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: farm pond or anything. They're just too slow growing. There's

914
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: too many factors against them, like just because they try

915
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 3: to spawn.

916
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: A smaller system, it's colder.

917
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 3: Probably. They say only one in every three years do

918
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: we get a successful recruitment of smallmouth or it's will spawn.

919
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 3: And there's just so many of us out there. The

920
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 3: boom of kayaking and fishing, and then the game and

921
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: fish has opened up accesses on places that you know,

922
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: and then the advent of all these vrbos, all of

923
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 3: them are on a beautiful stretch of Ozark and washed

924
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 3: all waters, so everybody comes in and and so there's

925
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 3: no secret places anymore. That place I got there, You

926
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 3: want that deer man and release cotton mouths in there too,

927
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 3: And okay that helps. Yeah, And that's where the black panther,

928
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: that's the last place he lived.

929
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: Many I am it's if there was a fish. I

930
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: was passionate about fishing it would be small mouth. And

931
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: I mean in the last twenty years, I haven't.

932
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: Done a lot of them, but I grew up.

933
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: I grew up small mouth fishing, and I have a

934
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: ton of respect for that fish. And it's now I'm

935
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: not deep into that culture, but it's surprising to me

936
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: that people would have any trouble just like turning back

937
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: every s they caught. And I would be like, so

938
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: for that, because I understand it. I mean, if you

939
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: just listen, you understand it.

940
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 3: I take my grandson and my son in law, he

941
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: is so passionate about smallmouth now and he's come to

942
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: live back in this area, and I take him to

943
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 3: places that I fish when I was a kid, and

944
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: we'll see a few here and there, and I'm like,

945
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 3: you don't realize how crazy good this used to be.

946
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 3: You know, fifty sixty hundred fish days, you know, and

947
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,720
Speaker 3: there and then like the canopy is gone because they've

948
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: gravel minded to death or they've overcattled the pastures around

949
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 3: it just all kinds of habitat destruction. And there's a

950
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 3: few smallmouth here and there hanging on and they think

951
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 3: it's still pretty good. And I'm like, you have no idea,

952
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: how good it was and how rapidly it declined, and

953
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: then I've got my grandson and I'm like, what will

954
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 3: he ever get to experience? So that's the passion driving

955
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: me there. Yeah, and it's in all types of wild life.

956
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: You know. We're consumers of wildlife. We hunt, you know,

957
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: and every thing, but we're the best conservation is too.

958
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: We are because we have the passion for it and

959
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 3: we're I want to see it survive, you know, definitely.

960
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: Well, we need to talk about ISHI for a minute.

961
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so yeah, on these bear grease renders, we

962
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: we we typically take a little bit of time to

963
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: talk about the podcast that just came out. And so

964
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 2: last week we came out with this podcast on Ishi.

965
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: The were titled it The Last Stone Age Man. And

966
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: this is also where I kind of give a behind

967
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 2: the scenes from you know, kind of like this polished podcast.

968
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: But I want to say that when I first started,

969
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: very well before I started bar Grease, when I was

970
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 2: asked by the company to ride out twenty six mock

971
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 2: episodes because we make twenty six bear grease propers a year,

972
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: right yep, every other week, so twenty six and they

973
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: said okay, well, if you're going to do this podcast

974
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: right out, twenty six things you're gonna do, and the

975
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: first five.

976
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: I would say was Ishi.

977
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

978
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: I mean, so I've known about this story for a

979
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 2: long time, yet it took me five years to finally

980
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 2: pull the trigger on the story. And part of that

981
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: was just that there was no rhyme or reason. I

982
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: just I just always knew that, like at some point

983
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about Ischi at some point. But

984
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: then it became it was it was more difficult than

985
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: we anticipated finding experts.

986
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really was.

987
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 3: Now.

988
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: Jeene Hopkins was incredible.

989
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

990
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 2: We typically like to have one or two expert guests,

991
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: so you kind of get like two angles of the

992
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: same story from maybe experts in different just different viewpoints

993
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: coming into it.

994
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: But were you familiar with Ishi?

995
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: I had read the book about him. I knew of him,

996
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 3: and we owe everything in archery that we know today

997
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 3: pretty much back to that. I think I do know

998
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 3: a lot about Ishi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

999
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: The well, Josh, what stood out to you?

1000
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 3: Man?

1001
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 4: I think I think listening to Gene talk about because

1002
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't know much about the history. You know,

1003
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 4: you told me about issue before, but knowing the history

1004
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 4: about what what he and the Yahi people endured living

1005
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 4: in the Mill Creek area, there was just unbelievable. And

1006
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 4: and and the fact that, you know, just the idea

1007
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 4: of them being hunted and the way they lived during

1008
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: the concealment, that that blew my mind to think of

1009
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 4: a guy who lived with three to four other family members, hiding,

1010
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 4: walking on all fours to look like a bear, jumping

1011
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 4: from rock to rock, making small fires and living you know.

1012
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 4: We we we got shows you know, like Alan where

1013
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 4: people go out and they make it eighty days or

1014
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 4: one hundred.

1015
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: Days, and yeah, and and they've got they've got ten

1016
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: modern things with them.

1017
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 4: These people were stone age living out there but also

1018
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 4: concealing themselves. So they were attempting to live as hunters

1019
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 4: and gatherers but also as prey. And so just that

1020
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 4: what that had, what that did to his psyche, you

1021
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 4: know what I mean, the way that they had to

1022
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 4: live is a pretty unbelievable situation. And uh, yeah, it

1023
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 4: blew my mind.

1024
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 2: You know what was I didn't really know that in

1025
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 2: the in the podcast, but most of the other tribes

1026
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: by that time, well, I mean, this was this would

1027
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 2: have been the last of tribes that weren't on reservations

1028
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: or or hadn't you know, people that had assimilated into

1029
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: kind of just American culture. I was that they weren't

1030
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 2: influenced by the technology of just modern American civilization.

1031
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: Like they didn't have steel like now he did have.

1032
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: I mean, think about all the Eastern tribes that I

1033
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: mean even back in the sixteen hundreds were using steel points,

1034
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: and it might have been the seventeen hundreds by the

1035
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: time they were doing that. But I mean, like these

1036
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: tribes were quickly inundated with some modern technologies. But the

1037
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 2: Yahee were far enough west that you know, that development

1038
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: just didn't get there till the mid nineteenth century. And

1039
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: then they were deep enough in a wild enough place

1040
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: that just people couldn't get to them, and so they

1041
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: just like stayed hyper isolated. I thought that was the

1042
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: most unique thing, because you know, if they were hiding out,

1043
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 2: like the more I learned the story and saw how

1044
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: they were just on the cusp of civilization, I mean

1045
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: like Ishi could could could see the trains down the valley,

1046
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: like he he would have run into people. You know,

1047
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: there were times when he was out in the woods

1048
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: and he would have met somebody like those surveyors. And

1049
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: yet still they didn't have any of the technologies other

1050
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: than Jean said that they were making stone points out

1051
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: of ceramics that they would find right and then and

1052
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: then they were raiding people's They were raiding people's cashes

1053
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 2: and out farms and different things. But they were pretty

1054
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 2: much just taking food and they they probably had some

1055
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 2: degree of maybe some clothing or materials that they might

1056
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 2: have taken, but like like they didn't take canned foods,

1057
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: which was really interesting, Like they would they would break

1058
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 2: in somewhere there be walls of canned food, and they

1059
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't take the canned food.

1060
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 1: But uh no, I just thought that was interesting.

1061
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: Bear.

1062
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought I've heard of Ishi a lot through

1063
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 5: like making bows and stone points. He comes up a

1064
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 5: lot because I think that he brought a lot of

1065
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 5: like primitive technology into like people's Like he made stuff

1066
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 5: that people saw and like now people replicate a lot,

1067
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 5: Like there's like a really specific style of arrow that

1068
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 5: they think came from him that he taught to the

1069
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 5: people there, and it's basically like you know, it's like

1070
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 5: a two piece arrow and the tip comes off. It's

1071
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 5: like you can put like a spear fishing tip on there,

1072
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 5: you can put a you know, an obsidian point on there.

1073
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 5: But so I've heard a lot about Ischi just through

1074
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 5: a lot of the stuff like the primitive technology that

1075
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 5: he brought into the world.

1076
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: But I'm with you.

1077
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 5: It was honestly, it was kind of sad because it

1078
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 5: was just like it kind of brought to reality the

1079
00:53:55,239 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 5: actual like actually what the natives experienced whenever they whenever

1080
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 5: the Europeans came through and wiped them out.

1081
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1082
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 5: I mean, like you always hear about like a mass

1083
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 5: genocide and you're like, yeah, that's terrible, but whenever you

1084
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 5: actually like look at it down to that specific of

1085
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 5: a level, like to that all the way down to Ishi,

1086
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 5: like like he was just like this lone native like

1087
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 5: it's it's it's really sad.

1088
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1089
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, I thought it was an interesting, interesting podcast.

1090
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a good analysis bare because like, yeah,

1091
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 2: we're all like pretty comfortable. I mean just because it's

1092
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 2: the history of this country of I mean, there's no

1093
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 2: other word. It's not like a harsh word to use,

1094
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: it's just the accurate word to use.

1095
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: A genocide. I mean, you know.

1096
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 2: That word is thrown around a lot politically sometimes as

1097
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: a thing to like it's like the worst thing you

1098
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 2: could say, So I'm not trying to do that, but

1099
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: I mean that's just what it was.

1100
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: And but seeing the human the main.

1101
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 2: Not somebody that got killed that we don't know, that's

1102
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 2: just an abstract idea of a human, but like to

1103
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: actually see the man Ishie And in this next episode,

1104
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 2: we're gonna see him even more and you're gonna like

1105
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 2: see how he interacted with people in his life for

1106
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: a very short time after he came here because spoiler alert,

1107
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 2: he only lived a few years after he after he

1108
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 2: came into uh San Francisco. Well, and it's a tragic story,

1109
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: but it does. It puts, It puts a human and

1110
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: then and then the really like the wildest part of

1111
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: the whole story, the wildest part of the whole story.

1112
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 2: And in what this does is it it humanizes the

1113
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 2: Native Americans. Is that you see that this stone age

1114
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 2: man who would have fit perfectly in with people tend

1115
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: that years ago. I mean he would have stepped in

1116
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 2: me and you step into a camp ten thousand years

1117
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: ago in these ozarks. Apparently people have been here for

1118
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 2: ten twelve thousand years, we would we would be pretty lost,

1119
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: I mean just to functionally he would be able to

1120
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 2: do that. But he stepped into essentially a modern society

1121
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: with cars, planes had flown in the air, electricity, modern vaccines,

1122
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 2: and he was a man just like us.

1123
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: I mean he was you know.

1124
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 2: I alluded to it in the final moments of the

1125
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 2: podcast where they said that he was generous and kind

1126
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: and relational, he was very interested in other people.

1127
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: He was.

1128
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: Everybody commented on just how kind this man was and

1129
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 2: he wasn't embittered, which is astonishing.

1130
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, so it just it.

1131
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 2: And that's what we've all we always say, like when

1132
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: you think about anthropology and you think and you look

1133
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 2: back into these deep stories of human antiquity, it's hard

1134
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 2: to imagine one of those guys being a pilot and

1135
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: flying a plane for delta. It's hard to imagine them

1136
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: coming to your house for dinner and like being your friend.

1137
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: But they could have. They were just like us. Yeah,

1138
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 2: you know they were, and that's this like gap that's

1139
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: hard to spend. And she did that is she tells

1140
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 2: that story and it'll be in this second episode it'll

1141
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 2: be like more more of that what stood out to you, Dayne,

1142
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 2: just just in all of it, if you.

1143
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 3: Well, it wasn't really that long ago. We were talking

1144
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 3: like nineteen eleven. Okay, my grandmother was born, you know,

1145
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: about that time. So that in my mind, that makes

1146
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: a sou And then what I love is the fact

1147
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 3: that you know, he archery probably was going to die out.

1148
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 3: I mean, why would you hunt with a primitive bow

1149
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 3: and arrow when modern firearms were starting to make their advancement.

1150
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 3: The scope rifle was starting to come in and higher

1151
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 3: powered cartridges, and then the bolt action rifle not too

1152
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 3: long after that and everything, which is a much more

1153
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: efficient way to take out a deer. Okay, but yet

1154
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 3: he and Saxon and you know, like and that's why

1155
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 3: we bowhunt today. You know, I much prefer even though

1156
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 3: it's a handicap in some ways. I don't really think

1157
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 3: it is if you adapt your techniques and your skills

1158
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 3: to what the weapon will do. But it brought about

1159
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 3: this whole rebirth or first time really for I mean,

1160
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 3: we owe so much to him for what we enjoyed

1161
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: to do today, and that's amazing to me. And then

1162
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 3: it connects you. I think that's what I love about

1163
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 3: traditional bow hunting. It just takes you raw back to

1164
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 3: somebody like Ishi and if he could do it, and

1165
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 3: maybe maybe I can there as well. But I'm gonna

1166
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try hard, you know. And and uh, because

1167
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 3: they fed their families that way, they fed, uh, you know,

1168
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 3: as long as there was game. I mean, when I

1169
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: have read you know, the books that were written on him,

1170
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 3: and and they said his skills and you know, and

1171
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 3: you know, we we studied gap shooting and various things.

1172
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 3: He just instinctively pulled back and knew where they are

1173
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 3: or went and hit his mark. And and then I

1174
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 3: think one of the thing that I read was up

1175
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 3: until then, there wasn't a whole lot of knowledge of

1176
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 3: tracking an animal. You know, it's common today if you

1177
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 3: strike a deer with a projectile a bow, and you know,

1178
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 3: it's it's seldom going to just drop within sight. You know,

1179
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: you have a responsibility to blood, trailing and tracking. And

1180
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: that was something that was taught according to what I've read,

1181
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 3: you know, and and the waiting period even you know,

1182
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 3: and things like you know and reading there or you know,

1183
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 3: what kind of hit was made and those kinds of things.

1184
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 3: Those are things I think that all go back to

1185
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 3: somebody who had that incredible knowledge and from his people forever,

1186
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 3: and and we benefit from that today. You know, we're

1187
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: we're carrying on a tradition, you know. And so and

1188
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 3: I think that's why there's somewhat kind of a I've

1189
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 3: never seen more of a revival, I think, Barry, you

1190
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 3: can probably talk more on this maybe, but these two

1191
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: people wanting to get back into just simple you know,

1192
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: you know, draw back and let it fly, you know,

1193
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: with with skill. And so we owe a lot to

1194
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 3: this man and his genius, you know. And and and

1195
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 3: the fact that you know, they when they brought him in,

1196
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 3: when he came in, they found him in that it

1197
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 3: was a cattle sale barn type or something ud yeah, yeah,

1198
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 3: so uh And I guess technically he could be considered

1199
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: a savage, entreated as such, you know, and yet somebody

1200
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 3: had compassion on him. And and and you know, and

1201
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 3: you know he didn't survive. Well, he did, but he

1202
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 3: didn't you know, I mean, they weren't. They weren't. He

1203
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,919
Speaker 3: was not immune to a lot of our diseases and things.

1204
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 3: And I think that's in that what eventually overcame him

1205
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 3: and there's too much exposure to things that didn't they

1206
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 3: didn't even travel to England at one time, or am

1207
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: I thinking something different?

1208
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure yet.

1209
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 3: Got read that and maybe I'll pulled off on that.

1210
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 4: That part hasn't been really okay.

1211
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 3: We don't know what that was. Kind of celebrated him

1212
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 3: a little bit. You know, maybe I'm thinking anti Oakley

1213
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 3: or somebody else, and yeah, I don't know, but anyway,

1214
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 3: but anyway, I'm sure he was quite the uh you know,

1215
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: as he was put on display, you know.

1216
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was, yes, definitely put on Yeah, but yeah,

1217
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: what an anomaly that even showed up. You know, we'll

1218
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 2: talk about it more on this next episode. But like

1219
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: just the fact that the fact that he even wandered

1220
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 2: into town was an anomaly for his tribe, his culture.

1221
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 2: I mean, there was a lot of fatalism inside of

1222
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 2: many of those tribes that they observed, and I mean anthropologists,

1223
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: well Krober, this lady that Theodore Krober, who wrote this

1224
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 2: really great book kind of the seminal book on it.

1225
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot of books on the sheet. I think

1226
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: it's probably the one to read. She speculated that it

1227
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: was wild that he even came into town, like like

1228
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 2: the kind of the culture of those people, a lot

1229
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: of times would have been just to kind of curl

1230
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 2: up and and I mean, that's that's.

1231
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: A pretty big projection on a culture.

1232
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 2: But for him to come down and to even be

1233
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: to try to get help from these people that his

1234
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: entire life age aged fifty or so, you know, was

1235
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: trying to get help, was a wild thing.

1236
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: And then what he gave to us was.

1237
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, to be just an amazing person to be around.

1238
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 3: I would have loved anything that, you know, my biggest

1239
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 3: pet peeve when you know I talked a little bit

1240
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 3: earlier that you know, I've put together a lot of

1241
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 3: travel trips to some pretty remote areas Christmas Island, and

1242
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 3: I've been few Central Maria fishing situations and stuff where

1243
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:09,479
Speaker 3: primitive native people as our guides and nothing is more

1244
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 3: gets on me. Then take clients who think of them

1245
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 3: as a second class servant guide. These men know there

1246
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: is not a bird that flies a track in the

1247
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 3: dirt that those guys, they are such far superior to

1248
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: us on fishing and hunting skills. In their they're they're

1249
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 3: wild people, but yet they are so amazing and because

1250
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 3: they grew up in it, they had to do it,

1251
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 3: and they're there to teach you if you're smart enough

1252
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 3: to watch them and learn. And I love them. I've

1253
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 3: got great friendships. I keep up with people you know

1254
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 3: all over and you know they have that wildness in

1255
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 3: them and that skills that are amazing.

1256
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: So what would be interesting to know is how good

1257
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 2: she would have been in archery compared to everybody else,

1258
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 2: because he's just he's one day to point out of

1259
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 2: a whole, a whole, a whole tribe of people. Was

1260
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 2: he just average? Maybe he would Maybe they would be

1261
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 2: chuckling that she was the one that taught us be like,

1262
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: like he should have seen if you think good he

1263
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 2: should have seen this guy or if he was, I mean,

1264
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, and per chance maybe. I mean the fact

1265
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 2: that I think maybe he was like the master of

1266
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 2: the greatest Yahee archer of all time is probably a stretch.

1267
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: He probably wasn't. He probably was somewhere in the middle.

1268
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 2: He probably was just average. So you think about that

1269
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 2: and how good he was skilled he was at napping,

1270
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,480
Speaker 2: making arrows, making bows, what he did so stuff will

1271
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: never know because the language bearer that we had with

1272
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 2: him was strong enough that you know, there was a

1273
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 2: lot they didn't get into, but they had about four

1274
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: years with him, and uh in those four years were

1275
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, used as documented pretty well for for the

1276
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 2: time period. But well, Dwayne, it's been a pleasure to

1277
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 2: meet you, truly has.

1278
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, great to be here among brothers.

1279
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's it's great to finally meet you and

1280
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 2: to finally talk about fly fishing and finally talk about

1281
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 2: We've ever gotten to trout Grease podcast podcast? Well, Dwayne,

1282
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 2: Dwayne's sales pitch on fly fishing was compelling a little

1283
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 2: more compelling. I think you know what I actually was

1284
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: thinking about that I give these guys a hard time

1285
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: about wanting to talk about fly fishing on here. And

1286
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a it's I'm just I know

1287
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 2: what it is. It's a it's a self protection mechanism because, yeah,

1288
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 2: because I made a decision when before Bear was born

1289
01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: that I couldn't be a fisherman and hunter and be successful,

1290
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 2: and so I just cut one off at the head

1291
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 2: and it was fishing, and so so I have to

1292
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 2: There may be a time when that changes, but right

1293
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: now I'm still in that mode. But no, I value

1294
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 2: anybody that's a master of their craft or just has

1295
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 2: a PAS. Don't have to be a master, just have

1296
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 2: a passion for it, genuine love of it. And it's

1297
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: not I'm gonna say this one time. Boys, Okay, I'm

1298
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: gonna say it one time. I know fly fishing is

1299
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 2: really cool. I know, I know get that.

1300
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: I know I know that.

1301
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 2: So I'd just like to give you all hard time,

1302
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 2: So no pleasure, Dwayne, Thank you so much,