WEBVTT - #471 Jason Flom with Stephen Carrington 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.920 We initially released Stephen Carrington's story on June tenth, twenty twenty. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.680 Last we spoke, Stephan had been paroled while fighting to 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.000 clear his name in the King's County Conviction Reviewing Unit. Finally, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.200 four years later, they concluded that we and all of 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.320 you already knew that Stephan is innocent, and the DA 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.000 agreed to support his motion to vacate the conviction and 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:35.280 dismissed all charges. Here's our original coverage. 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.720 It was a new year, nineteen ninety five, and Stephen 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.440 Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.360 who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.159 gotten married, a young father, was training to be an emt. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.800 After having paid his debt to society. His life was 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.320 getting back on track. On the morning of January second, 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.160 nineteen ninety five, Stephan's brother Mark stood outside out of 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.040 a lumberyard in Brooklyn as Shannon France and another man arrived. 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:05.479 Mister Franz pulled the. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.160 Twenty five, announcing a stick up as the other man, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.720 Rob's customer, Hugh Keys, the store clerk, tries to grab 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.560 mister France's weapon and was shot. Mister Franz loots the 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.720 strong box and the two men fled, leaving mister Keyes alive. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.000 A confidential informant would tell the lead investigator, Detective Calabreeze, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.000 the names of three men who were seen by the 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.440 lumberyard at the time of the crime, Shannon France, Eddie West, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:35.240 and Mark Carrington. However, when he searched for Mark Carrington, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.000 Stephan popped up at the same address, and with his 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:42.680 criminal record, Calabrizzi added his photo into an array. Hugh 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.520 Keys gave a shaky identification, and in the absence of 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.240 any physical evidence whatsoever connecting him to the crime, Stephan 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.880 went to trial right next to the trigger man, Shannon France. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.080 The Carringtons hired a lawyer to protect both of their sons, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.560 but it turned out to be to the detriment of 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.200 one of them. Was never called to testify a trial, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.360 and twenty years later, finally free Stephen Carrington is out 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.799 on parole but still fighting to clear his name of 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.520 a crime that he simply didn't commit. This is wrongful 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:23.680 conviction with Jason Flamm. Wrongful conviction has always given voice 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.280 to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding that 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:30.400 voice to you. Call us at eight three three two 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.000 oh seven, four six sixty six, and tell us how 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.520 these stories make you feel and what you've done to 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.119 help the cause, even if it's something as simple as 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.600 telling a friend or sharing on social media, and you 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.239 might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call us 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.160 eight three three two oh seven four six sixty six. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.560 Welcome back to Wrong for Conviction with Jason Flum. That's me, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.440 I'm your host, and today we have a story and 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.160 an outcome that we're gonna hope that who knows, maybe 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.840 somebody out there can be helpful with because we are 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.520 fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.920 right in front of me now, Stephan Carrington. Stepan as 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.280 I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:21.639 you're here. 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.840 Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here having 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.280 an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:28.760 my name. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:30.120 Yeah, that's what we're here for. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.360 Let's go back to that original faithful day, January second, 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.680 nineteen ninety five. What happened that day in the lumber store. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:43.800 Basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.920 place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.920 people in the street and things of that nature, because 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.160 you know, I wasn't dead when it took place. On 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.680 that day, they said that two individuals into the lumber 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.880 yard at a parent robbery which resulted to a homicide. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.640 One of the employees at the lumberyard try to take 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.400 a weapon from this individual and subsequently this guy shot 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:15.160 him twice and ultimately he died. Eventually he died. The 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.440 two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the lookout 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:25.360 and subsequently the person that is my co defendant, Shannon, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.400 his girlfriend best friend is the one that gave his name, 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.680 photos and everything to the police. There's a third individual 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.880 who name was Eddie West. And I have to say 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:43.920 that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, questioned, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.839 sought after by the police department. 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.320 So Eddie West was the other guy in the store. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.840 Now, Eddie West was one of the individuals that they 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.720 mentioned that was out on the corner during the time 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.040 the robbery was committed. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.200 Okay, Shannon France though, was he had some involvement in 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:02.120 the crime? Is that right? 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.880 They found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumberyard. 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.800 That's not a good signce. No, they didn't find yours. 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.440 No, they have no physical evidence or anything linking me 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.960 to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.520 to be outside with the individuals who was involved. 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.880 So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard, and they 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.440 shot a clerk named Lloyd Campbell. Yes, both in the 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:32.280 head and in the back. 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:32.760 Yes. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.640 And then they found the strong box, they looted it. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.599 The two guys fled the scene. Your brother was either 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.880 there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.880 He was apparently not in the store, that is correct. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:52.480 So how did your name come to be associated because 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.440 it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.760 got your brother, now they're going to just go after you. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.000 Well, I could tell you from the police reports the 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.240 officers during the investigation when they received these names and 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.479 photos of these individuals. There was an address on the photo, 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.600 which was a promotional photo. At the time, I had 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.119 a recording studio and we used to you know, wrench 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.400 studio time out to individuals. One of the group, Shannon, 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.400 my co defendant. He was an individual who was in 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.640 the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.239 part of, and they had promotional photos up and down 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.480 the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:39.400 committed this crime on. It so happened that they committed 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:44.000 a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.120 his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.839 out there and eventually gave his name in the photos 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:52.880 to the police, to the detective Calabrise. When Calabriese was 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.360 doing his investigation, all he did was run the address 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:02.000 through the police system, and my name came back because 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:07.400 I was parole to that address. So when they discovered 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.680 that I was on parole, the whole case shifted to me. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.640 Detective Calibres is quoted as saying that he had a 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.280 gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:24.160 the description my brother was involved. He felt that if 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.520 I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.280 I had a prior and I was on parole, they 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:30.800 came for me. 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.360 But you matched the description of the actual shooter, No 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.320 or the lookout. No, whose description did you match? 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.720 He said? I matched the individual who robbed another patron 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.960 of this lumber yard, mister yu Keys. I didn't know 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.560 what he was talking about. In my mind, I believed 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.480 that eventually whatever they were trying to do with, you know, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.240 resolve itself because I didn't have I had nothing to 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.640 do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.960 think about this one phrase, you know, and it always 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.720 stuck with me that you never get a second chance 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:11.360 to make a first impression. And because of my past 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.080 is why I'm here today now. I'm not a goodie 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:19.560 two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because I 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.920 try to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know, 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.320 to be down. I brought up my father's a pastor. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.720 I brought up in church. I went to church majority 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:31.080 of my life and I wouldn't lie, you know, I 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:36.480 hated church. I was forced to go every day. I 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.120 wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.560 what normal kids do was kind of tough for me 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.840 because I was a free spader. Like so, when I 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.560 was like seventeen, I try to move out and so 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.520 I started selling drugs with my best friend and that's 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.440 how I got into the life of criminality and things 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.640 of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested for 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:05.880 drug seale robbery and I went to Rackas Island and 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:10.760 I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed, 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:17.720 got robbed, and as time went on, I knew that 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:23.360 this wasn't for me. Prison wasn't something that I wanted 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.040 to do. It wasn't a lifestyle that I wanted to live. 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.560 And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.560 was going to lead me to prison, then I had 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.160 to do away with that, and not just those activities, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.480 but also the people that I used to associate with, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:40.960 And that's what I did. 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.080 You were really putting your life on track at this time, 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.560 which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.520 had gone through some training to be an EMT right, Yes, 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:55.040 that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married, 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.599 recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:58.120 front of you. 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.720 I had changed my life. I'd cut off all my friends. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.560 You know. I had a new born, my daughter. She 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.839 was only seven months when they took me from home. 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.440 It's sickening, I mean, and let's set the record straight 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:12.440 by talking about your alibi, which is a bit of 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.719 a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.000 but your alibi involves another woman, right. 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.480 Sad to say, And unfortunately, the day that they accused 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.080 me of committing this crime. I was in the hospital 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.760 with my wife, and I was also with another female 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.040 friend before I was in the hospital with my wife. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.240 Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.920 set up in your parents' basement. A young lady came 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.680 to visit you there and spent the night. Yes, Now, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.560 unbeknownst to you, your daughter had developed an ear infection. 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.840 I was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.040 no cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.720 looking for you, and she gets a hold of your mother, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.040 who walks the phone to you downstairs. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:53.720 That's correct. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.880 You spoke with your wife, assured her that you were 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.960 at your way, and then you shower and get the help. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.480 When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.559 just like here, she's your responsibility. Now I had all 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.640 and so you know, I did everything with her till 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.280 the doctors wanted to come in. She had an air affection, 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.720 so they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.120 is one of the things that baffled me, even to today, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.320 with all the technology and stuff that they have, my 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.640 hands got captured in this X ray. When people read 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.679 this case, really sit down and read this case, they 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.559 wonder how did you get convicted? 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:31.160 You had a solid alibi. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.560 I trial. One person testified against me, and I had 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:39.720 four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.559 that testified against me mister Yu Keys, And I feel 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.680 for him because I know that he's been duped because 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.040 he told the nine one one operator when he called 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.000 them during the day, that the crime was committed, about 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.320 being robbed, about the individual being shot, what have you, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.280 And when they asked him to give a description enough 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:05.080 the individual, he told him that he couldn't. He said 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.080 he never looked at the individual, that he never looked 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.280 at the person that robbed them. Wow, because he was 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.320 afraid too, because he seeing what happened to the guy 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:19.080 that got shot, he was afraid for his life. He 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.280 also told that to the first police that came on 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.960 the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calabrese is 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.760 saying that this individual picked my picture up and said, 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.960 this is the guy that robbed me. The district attorney 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.920 is saying that the witness didn't say that. The witness 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.240 said that I looked like the individual that robbed them. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.320 But in all the police reports, it's saying that the 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.520 witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.079 in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.120 said that I looked like the guy that robbed them, 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.320 and if he sent me in person, he would be 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.480 able to identify me. But here's the catch. The witness 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.440 get on the stand and said that he never made 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:03.000 no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:04.240 did I become a suspect? 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:05.240 Right? Which one is it? 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.839 Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.719 you believe the detective who was saying that he positively 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.880 identified me as the person that robbed them, the district 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.920 attorney who was saying that the witness said I looked 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.640 like the individual, but he will be able to identify 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.920 me if he see me in person. Or the witness 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.480 who said that he never made no identification when the 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.000 police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.880 we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.200 thing that he knew, which he told the police, was 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:42.960 that the guy was dark skinned and. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.640 Stocky, described half of your neighborhood. 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.000 When they ask him, well how tall is this guy? 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.240 He don't know. Is he taller than you? I don't know. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.320 Is he shorter than you, I don't know. Did he 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.480 have a bed, I don't know. Did he have a mustache? 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:55.000 I don't know. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:56.200 But he didn't see him. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.000 What do you know? He was dark skinned and stocky. 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:04.040 They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.560 can't make the features out of the individuals, the two perpetrators. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.880 You can't really make facial features out of anybody on 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:16.160 the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:23.280 and three quarter length copes. And he stated that he 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.720 couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the person 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:31.120 looked like. He don't know if they had a bed, mustache, anything. 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.080 He was just dusking and stocky. So when you look 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.880 at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes. 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:39.840 That's not enough. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.120 He couldn't even identify hisself on the tape. During trial, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.720 the district attorney had to reference something of what he 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.800 had on wait. 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.480 Hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.040 the guy couldn't identify himself. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.840 Yes, when the district attorney asked him to point to 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.840 himself on the tape, he pointed to someone else. Wow, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.720 and then the disc attorney says something like this, is 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.800 that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's in the 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.800 checkerboard shirt or something of that effect, right led him 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.800 to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.560 Okay, I've heard enough about that. Now we know that's 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.960 completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.680 window right off the bat. One of the things that 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.120 sticks with me is the idea that Detective Calibreeds claimed 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.680 that he could recognize you from a security tape because 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.040 he could recognize your walk. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.480 Yeah. I believe that was the lynch pin that's that 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.600 sealed my fate, because he got understanding and he pointed 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.200 me out in court and he said this is the guy. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.160 And they asked him how he knows and he says 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.520 that he could tell that it was me because of 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.120 how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.840 from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.840 But yet, you know, I believe that that was the 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.280 nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer. 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.880 They have a tape, and people believe even when I 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.680 was appealing and I know that these judge never viewed 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.520 the tape, but because of the language and the dialogue 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.400 in the trial transcript, they even denied certain of my 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.360 appeals because they saying you were clearly sint on the tape. 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.320 The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.680 someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment for 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.920 war impairment exactly that's what I was looking for, is preposterous. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:31.320 I mean, the fact that they would even present that 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:35.200 as evidence, it's ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.880 are not funny at all, they're very real. So there's 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.360 there's that, and then there's the fact that you know, 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.680 we know, we know what happened at the trial. That 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.200 you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.240 is correct because your lawyer didn't submit his name on 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:51.040 the witness list. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:51.640 That is right. 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.280 Had he been able to, we don't. We never will 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.000 never know what he would have said in the moment, 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.440 but there's a realistic chance that he might have said 0:16:58.480 --> 0:16:59.840 something that could have exonerated you. 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:04.439 Well, well, at that time, my opinion and believe is 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.040 that he wanted to come forward and he did come 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.879 to court to testify, and what I realized later is 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.480 that my lawyer sent them home. When they started to 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:18.240 question my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.879 answered truthfully that he was here, came to court today 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.000 to testify, and the district attorney stopped the proceeding and 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.040 asked for a sidebar so they can discuss certain things 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:37.359 which the sonographer records. And at this sidebar, the district 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.480 attorney wanted to bring up my lawyer on charges for 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:44.439 lyon about the whereabouts of my brother, because early that 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.040 morning he said he don't know where my brother was. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.600 He never seen them, he never met him. And then 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.920 it was discovered later the same day that my brother 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.200 was at his office that morning and he sent them home. 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.080 Wow, that's a big lie. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.560 And it's in the trial transcripts taking it up. 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.360 And he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.359 No, No, I mean because it was right. It was 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.639 early that morning and trial was on and my brother 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:14.240 came to testify at that time. I believe the best. Now, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.840 I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.040 forward and trying to tell the truth about what really 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.960 took place or who was involved on things of that nature. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.600 Yeah, I mean, he's your little brother. You know, he 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.200 must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.480 imagine being in his place. He's trying to save his 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.600 own life at the same time, you know, he's got 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.840 I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.520 this situation in the first place, because you talk about 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.040 how you never would have been in the system if 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.040 you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.160 But you also would have never been in this situation 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:51.760 if your brother hadn't have been involved in this thing 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:52.520 in the first place. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.840 I think that I had set a bad president for 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:01.920 my brother. I believe I was part of the influence. Now. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.919 I don't know if he looked up to me, but 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.240 I believe that some of my actions are friends that 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:12.080 I had that was around probably also roughed off on him. Unfortunately, 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.920 I wasn't around for him when he started to engage 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.600 in activities and pick certain people as friends that I 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.960 could have probably said, you know, those are the guys 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.480 you shouldn't thing. Because what I try to do was 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.840 distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.760 that point in time when I started to clear my 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:32.280 life up. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.760 I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother. 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.040 Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:39.240 gave it to me, right. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.879 Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:43.920 do a good job representing you and that the truth 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.199 was going to come out. That's correct, and you were 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:47.640 going to go back and get a hold your life. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.840 But in fact, your lawyer was compromised. 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.439 Yes, as it seems. I mean, he was kind of 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.080 like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.840 me and also to the people that were paying him 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:02.680 to represent me. 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.000 And the people that were paying him were your parents. Yes, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.200 it's almost like they had a Sophie's choice. They had 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:10.440 to choose what they did choose and if they had 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:12.480 to choose to save one child for me. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.919 It is basically, and this was never spoken. This is 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.280 just my thoughts as I got a little older and 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:23.080 probably start to piece things together that you know, he 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.960 had to pass. You know, he was in trouble before. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.440 Maybe he could handle this and we would support him. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:34.760 But my brother, he's the baby, and you know, the 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.560 cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.480 clean slave and said they didn't want him even the 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.720 district attorney said that they had nothing to convict him on, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.800 so they look for the easy choice, the person that 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.120 had the record. If we can't get his brother, then 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:57.639 we're going to get him. 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.760 You're listening to Wrong for Conviction. Listen to this and 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.480 all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.119 ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:12.440 Apple Podcasts. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:17.960 You served twenty three years. 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:23.240 Twenty three years in maximum security prisons in New York State. Yes, 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:29.720 was there a worst moment and was there a best moment? 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.520 I mean I had a lot of not a lot 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.439 of bad moments, but this a few. One of my 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.960 worst moments was when I was in green Haven in 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:44.879 two thousand and nine ten. I was in college. I 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:50.480 was taking Christian Ministry Human Services theology course. I was 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.439 working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:55.720 coming from study hall that I have my books and 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:01.480 I'm going back to my cell. I saw a crate 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.960 and I was like, let me take the crate and 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.040 put my school books in because if anything happened to 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.120 the school boos, I have to pay for him. This 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.400 is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.760 and waters dripping all over the place. Sometimes your toilet overfloor, 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.240 your sink overfloor. So long story short of officers see 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.480 me with the crate, tell me to put it back. 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.760 I can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he must 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.919 have spoke to another officer because another officer calls me 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.959 back and started going crazy on me, like what are 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.639