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Speaker 1: We initially released Stephen Carrington's story on June tenth, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Last we spoke, Stephan had been paroled while fighting to

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Speaker 1: clear his name in the King's County Conviction Reviewing Unit. Finally,

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Speaker 1: four years later, they concluded that we and all of

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Speaker 1: you already knew that Stephan is innocent, and the DA

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Speaker 1: agreed to support his motion to vacate the conviction and

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Speaker 1: dismissed all charges. Here's our original coverage.

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Speaker 2: It was a new year, nineteen ninety five, and Stephen

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Speaker 2: Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history

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Speaker 2: who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently

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Speaker 2: gotten married, a young father, was training to be an emt.

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Speaker 2: After having paid his debt to society. His life was

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Speaker 2: getting back on track. On the morning of January second,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, Stephan's brother Mark stood outside out of

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Speaker 2: a lumberyard in Brooklyn as Shannon France and another man arrived.

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Speaker 3: Mister Franz pulled the.

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Speaker 2: Twenty five, announcing a stick up as the other man,

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Speaker 2: Rob's customer, Hugh Keys, the store clerk, tries to grab

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Speaker 2: mister France's weapon and was shot. Mister Franz loots the

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Speaker 2: strong box and the two men fled, leaving mister Keyes alive.

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Speaker 2: A confidential informant would tell the lead investigator, Detective Calabreeze,

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Speaker 2: the names of three men who were seen by the

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Speaker 2: lumberyard at the time of the crime, Shannon France, Eddie West,

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Speaker 2: and Mark Carrington. However, when he searched for Mark Carrington,

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Speaker 2: Stephan popped up at the same address, and with his

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Speaker 2: criminal record, Calabrizzi added his photo into an array. Hugh

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Speaker 2: Keys gave a shaky identification, and in the absence of

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Speaker 2: any physical evidence whatsoever connecting him to the crime, Stephan

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Speaker 2: went to trial right next to the trigger man, Shannon France.

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Speaker 2: The Carringtons hired a lawyer to protect both of their sons,

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Speaker 2: but it turned out to be to the detriment of

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Speaker 2: one of them. Was never called to testify a trial,

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Speaker 2: and twenty years later, finally free Stephen Carrington is out

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Speaker 2: on parole but still fighting to clear his name of

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Speaker 2: a crime that he simply didn't commit. This is wrongful

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Speaker 2: conviction with Jason Flamm. Wrongful conviction has always given voice

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Speaker 2: to innocent people in prison, and now we're expanding that

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Speaker 2: voice to you. Call us at eight three three two

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Speaker 2: oh seven, four six sixty six, and tell us how

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Speaker 2: these stories make you feel and what you've done to

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Speaker 2: help the cause, even if it's something as simple as

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Speaker 2: telling a friend or sharing on social media, and you

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Speaker 2: might just hear yourself in a future episode. Call us

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Speaker 2: eight three three two oh seven four six sixty six.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Wrong for Conviction with Jason Flum. That's me,

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, and today we have a story and

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Speaker 2: an outcome that we're gonna hope that who knows, maybe

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Speaker 2: somebody out there can be helpful with because we are

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Speaker 2: fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting

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Speaker 2: right in front of me now, Stephan Carrington. Stepan as

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Speaker 2: I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy

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Speaker 2: you're here.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here having

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear

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Speaker 4: my name.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what we're here for.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to that original faithful day, January second,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. What happened that day in the lumber store.

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Speaker 4: Basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took

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Speaker 4: place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from

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Speaker 4: people in the street and things of that nature, because

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Speaker 4: you know, I wasn't dead when it took place. On

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Speaker 4: that day, they said that two individuals into the lumber

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Speaker 4: yard at a parent robbery which resulted to a homicide.

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Speaker 4: One of the employees at the lumberyard try to take

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Speaker 4: a weapon from this individual and subsequently this guy shot

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Speaker 4: him twice and ultimately he died. Eventually he died. The

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Speaker 4: two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the lookout

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Speaker 4: and subsequently the person that is my co defendant, Shannon,

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Speaker 4: his girlfriend best friend is the one that gave his name,

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Speaker 4: photos and everything to the police. There's a third individual

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Speaker 4: who name was Eddie West. And I have to say

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Speaker 4: that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, questioned,

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Speaker 4: sought after by the police department.

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Speaker 2: So Eddie West was the other guy in the store.

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Speaker 4: Now, Eddie West was one of the individuals that they

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Speaker 4: mentioned that was out on the corner during the time

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Speaker 4: the robbery was committed.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Shannon France though, was he had some involvement in

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Speaker 2: the crime? Is that right?

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Speaker 4: They found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumberyard.

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Speaker 2: That's not a good signce. No, they didn't find yours.

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Speaker 4: No, they have no physical evidence or anything linking me

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Speaker 4: to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned

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Speaker 4: to be outside with the individuals who was involved.

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Speaker 2: So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard, and they

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Speaker 2: shot a clerk named Lloyd Campbell. Yes, both in the

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Speaker 2: head and in the back.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And then they found the strong box, they looted it.

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Speaker 2: The two guys fled the scene. Your brother was either

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Speaker 2: there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing.

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Speaker 2: He was apparently not in the store, that is correct.

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Speaker 2: So how did your name come to be associated because

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Speaker 2: it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they

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Speaker 2: got your brother, now they're going to just go after you.

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Speaker 4: Well, I could tell you from the police reports the

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Speaker 4: officers during the investigation when they received these names and

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Speaker 4: photos of these individuals. There was an address on the photo,

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Speaker 4: which was a promotional photo. At the time, I had

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Speaker 4: a recording studio and we used to you know, wrench

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Speaker 4: studio time out to individuals. One of the group, Shannon,

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Speaker 4: my co defendant. He was an individual who was in

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Speaker 4: the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a

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Speaker 4: part of, and they had promotional photos up and down

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Speaker 4: the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and

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Speaker 4: committed this crime on. It so happened that they committed

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Speaker 4: a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and

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Speaker 4: his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him

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Speaker 4: out there and eventually gave his name in the photos

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Speaker 4: to the police, to the detective Calabrise. When Calabriese was

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Speaker 4: doing his investigation, all he did was run the address

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Speaker 4: through the police system, and my name came back because

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Speaker 4: I was parole to that address. So when they discovered

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Speaker 4: that I was on parole, the whole case shifted to me.

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Speaker 4: Detective Calibres is quoted as saying that he had a

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Speaker 4: gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched

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Speaker 4: the description my brother was involved. He felt that if

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Speaker 4: I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because

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Speaker 4: I had a prior and I was on parole, they

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Speaker 4: came for me.

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Speaker 2: But you matched the description of the actual shooter, No

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Speaker 2: or the lookout. No, whose description did you match?

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Speaker 4: He said? I matched the individual who robbed another patron

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Speaker 4: of this lumber yard, mister yu Keys. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: what he was talking about. In my mind, I believed

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Speaker 4: that eventually whatever they were trying to do with, you know,

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Speaker 4: resolve itself because I didn't have I had nothing to

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Speaker 4: do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me

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Speaker 4: think about this one phrase, you know, and it always

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Speaker 4: stuck with me that you never get a second chance

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Speaker 4: to make a first impression. And because of my past

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Speaker 4: is why I'm here today now. I'm not a goodie

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Speaker 4: two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because I

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Speaker 4: try to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know,

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Speaker 4: to be down. I brought up my father's a pastor.

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Speaker 4: I brought up in church. I went to church majority

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Speaker 4: of my life and I wouldn't lie, you know, I

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Speaker 4: hated church. I was forced to go every day. I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do

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Speaker 4: what normal kids do was kind of tough for me

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Speaker 4: because I was a free spader. Like so, when I

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Speaker 4: was like seventeen, I try to move out and so

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Speaker 4: I started selling drugs with my best friend and that's

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Speaker 4: how I got into the life of criminality and things

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Speaker 4: of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested for

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Speaker 4: drug seale robbery and I went to Rackas Island and

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Speaker 4: I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed,

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Speaker 4: got robbed, and as time went on, I knew that

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Speaker 4: this wasn't for me. Prison wasn't something that I wanted

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Speaker 4: to do. It wasn't a lifestyle that I wanted to live.

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Speaker 4: And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff

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Speaker 4: was going to lead me to prison, then I had

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Speaker 4: to do away with that, and not just those activities,

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Speaker 4: but also the people that I used to associate with,

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Speaker 4: And that's what I did.

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Speaker 2: You were really putting your life on track at this time,

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Speaker 2: which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You

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Speaker 2: had gone through some training to be an EMT right, Yes,

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Speaker 2: that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married,

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Speaker 2: recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in

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Speaker 2: front of you.

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Speaker 4: I had changed my life. I'd cut off all my friends.

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Speaker 4: You know. I had a new born, my daughter. She

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Speaker 4: was only seven months when they took me from home.

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Speaker 2: It's sickening, I mean, and let's set the record straight

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Speaker 2: by talking about your alibi, which is a bit of

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Speaker 2: a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man,

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Speaker 2: but your alibi involves another woman, right.

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Speaker 4: Sad to say, And unfortunately, the day that they accused

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Speaker 4: me of committing this crime. I was in the hospital

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Speaker 4: with my wife, and I was also with another female

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Speaker 4: friend before I was in the hospital with my wife.

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Speaker 2: Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio

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Speaker 2: set up in your parents' basement. A young lady came

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Speaker 2: to visit you there and spent the night. Yes, Now,

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Speaker 2: unbeknownst to you, your daughter had developed an ear infection.

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Speaker 2: I was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's

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Speaker 2: no cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around

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Speaker 2: looking for you, and she gets a hold of your mother,

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Speaker 2: who walks the phone to you downstairs.

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Speaker 4: That's correct.

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Speaker 2: You spoke with your wife, assured her that you were

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Speaker 2: at your way, and then you shower and get the help.

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Speaker 4: When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is

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Speaker 4: just like here, she's your responsibility. Now I had all

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Speaker 4: and so you know, I did everything with her till

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Speaker 4: the doctors wanted to come in. She had an air affection,

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Speaker 4: so they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this

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Speaker 4: is one of the things that baffled me, even to today,

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Speaker 4: with all the technology and stuff that they have, my

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Speaker 4: hands got captured in this X ray. When people read

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Speaker 4: this case, really sit down and read this case, they

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Speaker 4: wonder how did you get convicted?

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Speaker 2: You had a solid alibi.

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Speaker 4: I trial. One person testified against me, and I had

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Speaker 4: four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person

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Speaker 4: that testified against me mister Yu Keys, And I feel

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Speaker 4: for him because I know that he's been duped because

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Speaker 4: he told the nine one one operator when he called

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Speaker 4: them during the day, that the crime was committed, about

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Speaker 4: being robbed, about the individual being shot, what have you,

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Speaker 4: And when they asked him to give a description enough

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Speaker 4: the individual, he told him that he couldn't. He said

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Speaker 4: he never looked at the individual, that he never looked

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Speaker 4: at the person that robbed them. Wow, because he was

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Speaker 4: afraid too, because he seeing what happened to the guy

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Speaker 4: that got shot, he was afraid for his life. He

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Speaker 4: also told that to the first police that came on

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Speaker 4: the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calabrese is

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Speaker 4: saying that this individual picked my picture up and said,

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Speaker 4: this is the guy that robbed me. The district attorney

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Speaker 4: is saying that the witness didn't say that. The witness

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Speaker 4: said that I looked like the individual that robbed them.

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Speaker 4: But in all the police reports, it's saying that the

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Speaker 4: witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But

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Speaker 4: in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness

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Speaker 4: said that I looked like the guy that robbed them,

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Speaker 4: and if he sent me in person, he would be

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Speaker 4: able to identify me. But here's the catch. The witness

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Speaker 4: get on the stand and said that he never made

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Speaker 4: no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how

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Speaker 4: did I become a suspect?

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Speaker 3: Right? Which one is it?

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Speaker 4: Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should

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Speaker 4: you believe the detective who was saying that he positively

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Speaker 4: identified me as the person that robbed them, the district

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Speaker 4: attorney who was saying that the witness said I looked

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Speaker 4: like the individual, but he will be able to identify

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Speaker 4: me if he see me in person. Or the witness

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Speaker 4: who said that he never made no identification when the

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Speaker 4: police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should

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Speaker 4: we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only

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Speaker 4: thing that he knew, which he told the police, was

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Speaker 4: that the guy was dark skinned and.

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Speaker 2: Stocky, described half of your neighborhood.

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Speaker 4: When they ask him, well how tall is this guy?

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Speaker 4: He don't know. Is he taller than you? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Is he shorter than you, I don't know. Did he

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Speaker 4: have a bed, I don't know. Did he have a mustache?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't see him.

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Speaker 4: What do you know? He was dark skinned and stocky.

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Speaker 4: They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you

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Speaker 4: can't make the features out of the individuals, the two perpetrators.

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Speaker 4: You can't really make facial features out of anybody on

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Speaker 4: the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies

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Speaker 4: and three quarter length copes. And he stated that he

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Speaker 4: couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the person

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Speaker 4: looked like. He don't know if they had a bed, mustache, anything.

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Speaker 4: He was just dusking and stocky. So when you look

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Speaker 4: at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes.

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Speaker 2: That's not enough.

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Speaker 4: He couldn't even identify hisself on the tape. During trial,

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Speaker 4: the district attorney had to reference something of what he

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Speaker 4: had on wait.

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Speaker 2: Hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that

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Speaker 2: the guy couldn't identify himself.

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Speaker 4: Yes, when the district attorney asked him to point to

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Speaker 4: himself on the tape, he pointed to someone else. Wow,

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Speaker 4: and then the disc attorney says something like this, is

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Speaker 4: that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's in the

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Speaker 4: checkerboard shirt or something of that effect, right led him

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Speaker 4: to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've heard enough about that. Now we know that's

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Speaker 2: completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the

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Speaker 2: window right off the bat. One of the things that

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Speaker 2: sticks with me is the idea that Detective Calibreeds claimed

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Speaker 2: that he could recognize you from a security tape because

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Speaker 2: he could recognize your walk.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I believe that was the lynch pin that's that

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Speaker 4: sealed my fate, because he got understanding and he pointed

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Speaker 4: me out in court and he said this is the guy.

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Speaker 4: And they asked him how he knows and he says

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Speaker 4: that he could tell that it was me because of

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Speaker 4: how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator

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Speaker 4: from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court.

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Speaker 4: But yet, you know, I believe that that was the

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Speaker 4: nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer.

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Speaker 4: They have a tape, and people believe even when I

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Speaker 4: was appealing and I know that these judge never viewed

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Speaker 4: the tape, but because of the language and the dialogue

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Speaker 4: in the trial transcript, they even denied certain of my

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Speaker 4: appeals because they saying you were clearly sint on the tape.

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Speaker 2: The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of

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Speaker 2: someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment for

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Speaker 2: war impairment exactly that's what I was looking for, is preposterous.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that they would even present that

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Speaker 2: as evidence, it's ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences

290
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Speaker 2: are not funny at all, they're very real. So there's

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Speaker 2: there's that, and then there's the fact that you know,

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Speaker 2: we know, we know what happened at the trial. That

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Speaker 2: you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That

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Speaker 2: is correct because your lawyer didn't submit his name on

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Speaker 2: the witness list.

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Speaker 4: That is right.

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Speaker 2: Had he been able to, we don't. We never will

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Speaker 2: never know what he would have said in the moment,

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Speaker 2: but there's a realistic chance that he might have said

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Speaker 2: something that could have exonerated you.

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Speaker 4: Well, well, at that time, my opinion and believe is

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Speaker 4: that he wanted to come forward and he did come

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Speaker 4: to court to testify, and what I realized later is

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Speaker 4: that my lawyer sent them home. When they started to

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Speaker 4: question my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they

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Speaker 4: answered truthfully that he was here, came to court today

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Speaker 4: to testify, and the district attorney stopped the proceeding and

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Speaker 4: asked for a sidebar so they can discuss certain things

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Speaker 4: which the sonographer records. And at this sidebar, the district

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Speaker 4: attorney wanted to bring up my lawyer on charges for

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Speaker 4: lyon about the whereabouts of my brother, because early that

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Speaker 4: morning he said he don't know where my brother was.

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Speaker 4: He never seen them, he never met him. And then

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Speaker 4: it was discovered later the same day that my brother

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Speaker 4: was at his office that morning and he sent them home.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a big lie.

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Speaker 4: And it's in the trial transcripts taking it up.

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Speaker 2: And he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I mean because it was right. It was

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Speaker 4: early that morning and trial was on and my brother

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Speaker 4: came to testify at that time. I believe the best. Now,

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Speaker 4: I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming

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Speaker 4: forward and trying to tell the truth about what really

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Speaker 4: took place or who was involved on things of that nature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's your little brother. You know, he

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Speaker 2: must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine being in his place. He's trying to save his

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Speaker 2: own life at the same time, you know, he's got

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Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in

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Speaker 2: this situation in the first place, because you talk about

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Speaker 2: how you never would have been in the system if

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Speaker 2: you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger.

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Speaker 2: But you also would have never been in this situation

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Speaker 2: if your brother hadn't have been involved in this thing

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Speaker 2: in the first place.

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Speaker 4: I think that I had set a bad president for

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Speaker 4: my brother. I believe I was part of the influence. Now.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if he looked up to me, but

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Speaker 4: I believe that some of my actions are friends that

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Speaker 4: I had that was around probably also roughed off on him. Unfortunately,

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00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 4: I wasn't around for him when he started to engage

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Speaker 4: in activities and pick certain people as friends that I

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Speaker 4: could have probably said, you know, those are the guys

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Speaker 4: you shouldn't thing. Because what I try to do was

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Speaker 4: distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at

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Speaker 4: that point in time when I started to clear my

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Speaker 4: life up.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother.

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Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They

350
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Speaker 4: gave it to me, right.

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Speaker 2: Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to

352
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Speaker 2: do a good job representing you and that the truth

353
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 2: was going to come out. That's correct, and you were

354
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Speaker 2: going to go back and get a hold your life.

355
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Speaker 2: But in fact, your lawyer was compromised.

356
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Speaker 4: Yes, as it seems. I mean, he was kind of

357
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 4: like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to

358
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Speaker 4: me and also to the people that were paying him

359
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Speaker 4: to represent me.

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Speaker 2: And the people that were paying him were your parents. Yes,

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00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 2: it's almost like they had a Sophie's choice. They had

362
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 2: to choose what they did choose and if they had

363
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Speaker 2: to choose to save one child for me.

364
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Speaker 4: It is basically, and this was never spoken. This is

365
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 4: just my thoughts as I got a little older and

366
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Speaker 4: probably start to piece things together that you know, he

367
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 4: had to pass. You know, he was in trouble before.

368
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 4: Maybe he could handle this and we would support him.

369
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Speaker 4: But my brother, he's the baby, and you know, the

370
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 4: cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a

371
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 4: clean slave and said they didn't want him even the

372
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Speaker 4: district attorney said that they had nothing to convict him on,

373
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Speaker 4: so they look for the easy choice, the person that

374
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Speaker 4: had the record. If we can't get his brother, then

375
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Speaker 4: we're going to get him.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrong for Conviction. Listen to this and

377
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 2: all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and

378
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 2: ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on

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00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 4: You served twenty three years.

381
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Speaker 2: Twenty three years in maximum security prisons in New York State. Yes,

382
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Speaker 2: was there a worst moment and was there a best moment?

383
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Speaker 4: I mean I had a lot of not a lot

384
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Speaker 4: of bad moments, but this a few. One of my

385
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 4: worst moments was when I was in green Haven in

386
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine ten. I was in college. I

387
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 4: was taking Christian Ministry Human Services theology course. I was

388
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Speaker 4: working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was

389
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Speaker 4: coming from study hall that I have my books and

390
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Speaker 4: I'm going back to my cell. I saw a crate

391
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: and I was like, let me take the crate and

392
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 4: put my school books in because if anything happened to

393
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 4: the school boos, I have to pay for him. This

394
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 4: is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks

395
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 4: and waters dripping all over the place. Sometimes your toilet overfloor,

396
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 4: your sink overfloor. So long story short of officers see

397
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 4: me with the crate, tell me to put it back.

398
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: I can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he must

399
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 4: have spoke to another officer because another officer calls me

400
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,959
Speaker 4: back and started going crazy on me, like what are

401
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 4: you touching here? You know, don't eff in this, don't

402
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 4: eff in that. And you know, I just stood there.

403
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 4: I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here,

404
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 4: I'm gonna just listen to him, you know, comply, and

405
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 4: you know, hopefully, you know, I can go to my

406
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 4: cell and lock in. And that wasn't the case, you know.

407
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: So after he started to berate me about you know,

408
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 4: touching stuff and his you and all this other stuff,

409
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 4: I said, okay, you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's

410
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: the create and I turned to leave. And I think

411
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 4: at this point in time he felt like I was

412
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 4: dismissing him, you know, or I left without his authority

413
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 4: saying okay, you go, and he took offense to me

414
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 4: turning to leave, and he jumped on me. They beat

415
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 4: me up. You see my elbow I left elbow.

416
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: Yep, got a giant nodding it right.

417
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Speaker 4: My shoulders still hurt to this day. They beat up

418
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 4: my elbows, they beat up my shoulders, they beat me up,

419
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: They dragged me to the box, and they try to

420
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 4: charge me with assault. And that was like for me,

421
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 4: the worst day because everything that I was doing, I

422
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 4: never had no physical altercations while I was in with inmates,

423
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 4: all officers, anything of that nature. And I'm fighting my

424
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 4: case and the only thing that's coming to my mind

425
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 4: is that maybe I have an opportunity to get out

426
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 4: of the prison for my case. But if they try

427
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: to convict me for assault on the staff, which mostly

428
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 4: everybody gets convicted of, you know, I just seen my

429
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 4: lights go out. It's your word against officer words. And

430
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 4: more than one officer is going to say that you

431
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 4: didn't what you didn't do. And it's funny to me

432
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 4: because it's like I'm saying to myself, like God, how

433
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 4: does stuff and keep happening to me? And my parents.

434
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 4: They're so religious that you know they would hit you

435
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 4: with you haven't submitted to God yet, you haven't let go.

436
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 4: You're being tested, You're going through the fire, and you

437
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: know I cried like a baby because I seen my

438
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: lights go out. And maybe this was also the opportunity

439
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 4: that I seen God working in my life, because subsequently,

440
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 4: guys that knew me, that locked on the company with me,

441
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: they had wrote this Attorney's General Office, they inspect the General.

442
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 4: They had wrote prison Legal Services, and I never knew

443
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: that people probably watched me or cared about me like

444
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 4: that I'm talking about inmates, HEARDing, criminals or whatever, and

445
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: they inspect the general. When the inspect the generals came

446
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 4: to see me, and I had written to them again

447
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: because one of the guys inside the shoe area had

448
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 4: told me, listen, you need to write these people. You

449
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 4: need to write this person. Da da da da dad.

450
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: So I was getting advice from individuals or who I

451
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 4: have to write, who I have to contact to try

452
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 4: to get from underneath this, and so I wrote them

453
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: as well. And when they came to see me, you know,

454
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: we talk. He says, well, we have to do our

455
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 4: investigation and stuff of that nature. And then they came

456
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: to see me, and I guess this is the first

457
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 4: time in my life that I could say that I've

458
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: seen the hand of God, because when he called me

459
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 4: and they interviewed me. He says, I have good news

460
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 4: and bad news. The good news is that we're not

461
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 4: going to charge you with assault on staff because I've

462
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: read all the reports that came in. I read the

463
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: police reports, and I read not just your report, but

464
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 4: I got several letters written from other inmates who have

465
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 4: witnessed what took place. And I know that you didn't

466
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 4: have contact with these individuals because they brought you to

467
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 4: the box and it says your story and their story

468
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 4: adds up, and none of the police stories adds up.

469
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: But you have to go through the format I still

470
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 4: had the hearing to go to, and this is how

471
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: corrupt the Department of Corrections is. I remember the officer

472
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 4: that had the altercation with me, that smacked me in

473
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 4: my face and hit me with the sticks and all that.

474
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: And there was two other officers there, but I didn't

475
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 4: remember the two. And the reason why I remember the

476
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: one is because he was my company officer. He's there

477
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 4: every day. The officer that comes in the hearing was

478
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 4: in the officer that hit me or I had the

479
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 4: altercation with. It was somebody else. And we're going through

480
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 4: the formalities and questioning the officer and stuff like that.

481
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 4: So the officer said that we were standing the right shoulder,

482
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 4: the right shoulder, and I took my left hand and

483
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 4: punched them on the left side of his face. That

484
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 4: caused him to bust his head on the pipes and

485
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: bust his head open. And when I started to play

486
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 4: if we stand the right shoulder to shoulder and I

487
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 4: hit him with my left hand on the left side

488
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: of his face, how is that possible. I would have

489
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 4: to go over It's not come back and hit him,

490
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 4: and you know so, so I asked the officer to

491
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 4: demonstrate this punch. Can you demonstrate how I hit you

492
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 4: with my left hand on the left side of your

493
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: face if we stand the right shoulder the right shoulder,

494
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 4: I would like for you to demonstrate this. And the

495
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 4: hearing officer said that there will be no demonstrations in here,

496
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 4: so he never got to demonstrate, and I, you know, objected,

497
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 4: and I told him that it's impossible that that can

498
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 4: take place. Long story short, the officer that wrote the

499
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: report or that they brought in that said he wrote

500
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 4: the report. I asked him, did he see the police

501
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: hit me? And he said yes. So then I asked him, then,

502
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: why is it not written in the report that the

503
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 4: police struck me. The lieutenant looks and he's like, I said,

504
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: It's not in the ticket, is not in the two

505
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 4: firm reports. It's not in any document that was given

506
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: to me. So the lieutenant asked the CEO, why is that?

507
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: And maybe at this time he was afraid. I don't

508
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 4: know what it is, but I believe that at this

509
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: point in time, this is when I've seen God worked

510
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 4: in my life. And he tells the truth. He says,

511
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: I didn't write the report. The lieutenant said, you didn't

512
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: write the report. He said, no, I didn't write the report.

513
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 4: He said, who wrote the report? He said, a sergeant

514
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: such and such wrote the report? He said, where was

515
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 4: the sergeant when the incident happened. He wasn't there. The

516
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 4: sergeant wrote the report, made another officer sign it and

517
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: sait in the hearing as the officer who witnessed what

518
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: took place and knew nothing about it. And they dismissed

519
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 4: the case.

520
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: Amen to that, or you might not be here now.

521
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: So and we know now that you paroled. And I

522
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: want to get to that, because that's a really extraordinary

523
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: story in and of itself. I think it says a

524
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: lot about what the parole board really thought about your

525
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: claims of innocence. But before we get to that, I

526
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: want to talk about what was going on on the outside.

527
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: Because there was a guy in the neighborhood. I mean,

528
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: can we mention his name?

529
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: Well, for legal purposes, you know, I wouldn't like to

530
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 4: mention his name. It called my case is still being

531
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: reviewed by the Convention Review Unit. So, but this individual

532
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: was a childhood friend of mine. We haven't seen each

533
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 4: other in years, and he had moved away from the neighborhood.

534
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 4: And when he came back to the neighborhood, he was looking,

535
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 4: you know, for old friends. And you know, subsequently he

536
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: was looking for me and heard that I was in prison.

537
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: So he wanted to know why, and the whole story

538
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 4: came out and he couldn't believe it. You know, he

539
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 4: took it upon himself to try to help me.

540
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: How do you do that?

541
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 4: Well, the individual who actually committed a crime used to

542
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 4: see him all the time, and because he's still living

543
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: in the neighborhood, mostly people that knew both of us,

544
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 4: he would ask them, you know, how they felt about him.

545
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 4: It was he still you know, like welcome or they

546
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 4: still had love for him, knowing that I was in

547
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: prison serving time for a crime that he committed. And

548
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: my friend, he was like he couldn't believe this, and

549
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: he's like, this guy just keep saying that he did it.

550
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 4: He did it, and he's the reason why you in prison.

551
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 4: You know, he wrote me a letter. I showed you

552
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 4: the letter that he wrote. And he took it upon

553
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 4: himself too to record this individual, to tape them saying

554
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: the same things about me being in prison for a

555
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 4: crime he committed, and even went as far as that

556
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: he used to he does security bouncing work because he's

557
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: six eight, three hundred and something pounds, and this is

558
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: God again in my life. He so happened to be

559
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 4: working doing security at a spot where detective Calibri's, the

560
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: leading detective in my case, was also working. What's the

561
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 4: odds of that?

562
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: Pretty long?

563
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 4: And he spoke to Calibres about the case and told

564
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: him that he had the wrong person in prison for

565
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: the crime. What Calbri's say, Calabris just told him tell

566
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 4: his brother to come forward and he can get out.

567
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: That was his words. See, because Calabri's knew and he

568
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: had told me as much. When he brought me in,

569
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 4: you know, because he was like, where's your brother, weighs

570
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 4: his friends, and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not

571
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: my brother's keeper. You know, I don't live with my brother.

572
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 4: I live with my wife. But he didn't care about that.

573
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: And you know, once things start to unravel in the

574
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 4: conviction review unit and they start to review my case,

575
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 4: they reached out to him two to three weeks after

576
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: they reviewed my case and next thing, you know, self

577
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 4: inflicted wound somewhere in his car. You know, he took

578
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 4: his own life.

579
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like his conscience may have gotten to him.

580
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: And we'll never know because he didn't leave a note

581
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: or anything, right, but the timing seems.

582
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 4: Really to be suspicious.

583
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the conviction review unit starts looking into

584
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: your case, it's inevitable that they're going to find out

585
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: what happened. Because the conviction Review Unit in Brooklyn, I

586
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: can say this, they don't fuck around. But these guys

587
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: are under the leadership of American Zales and before that

588
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: Ken Thompson. They are committed to finding and identifying and

589
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: resolving wrong for conviction cases. And they've been doing it

590
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: and walking the walk and so once they took over

591
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: investigating your case. Yeah, Detective Calabrizi must have known that

592
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: some of his misdeeds were going to become public.

593
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 4: Yes, he did everything from interviewing the witnesses to getting

594
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 4: the fillers for the lineups, conducting the lineup. I mean,

595
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 4: nobody else did anything. His name is on all the reports.

596
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: So the guy who holds the key is dead.

597
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 3: Now you went to the parole board.

598
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Yes, and you did exactly the opposite of what All

599
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: the smartest people you knew were the most the wisest people,

600
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 2: I should say, were advising you to do right.

601
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie, you know. I was very apprehensive

602
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 4: and rustle with it. You know. As my wife was here,

603
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 4: she would tell you, you know, because knowing what I

604
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 4: know now, I had told her and I told her

605
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 4: before that if I had a chance to do this

606
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 4: all over again, I probably would have copped out to

607
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 4: something less right.

608
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: So I was gonna say is when you go to

609
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: the parole board, the general rule, and this is with

610
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: very very rare exceptions, the parole board wants to hear

611
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: you express remorse for the crime, whether you committed it

612
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: or not. They don't know whether you committed it. They

613
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: don't have time to reinvestigate it. In New York State,

614
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: the parole board is reviewing ten thousand cases, around ten

615
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: thousand cases a year, and there's only somewhere between twelve

616
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 2: and nineteen people for the entire state in panels of three.

617
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 2: So they have a few minutes to look into your case.

618
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: They don't have time to go through it, even like

619
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: we're doing now. So it would be great if they did,

620
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: but they don't. They're only human beings, They only you know,

621
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: they don't have so much time in the day. So

622
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 2: the logical thing to do for somebody like you who's

623
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: desperate to get out and get back with your family

624
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 2: and get back on, you know, to your life, is

625
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: to just plead guilty. And then they're most likely going

626
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: to say, okay, well you've served twenty three years and

627
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: you've done you know, ministry and all that. There's other

628
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: stuff in prison. Yeah you can go home now. But

629
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: you didn't know.

630
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 4: And I mean I wrestled with it. I prayed about

631
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: it because I want to go home. You know, what

632
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 4: should I do? I mean, even though all these years

633
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: I'm telling them I didn't commit the crime, now I'm

634
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: up for parole. What do I do Do I go

635
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 4: in there and put on a show and say that

636
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 4: I'm remorse and I'm sorry and that you know, you know,

637
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: I don't know what to say but the truth. And

638
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 4: I wrestle with it. And I mean, like people is

639
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 4: telling me, don't go in there and tell them that

640
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 4: you didn't do it. They're going to hit you, They're

641
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 4: going to give you more time. And I say, well,

642
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 4: I'm going in there and I'm going to tell them

643
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: what I've been telling them since the beginning. I didn't

644
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 4: commit the crime, but I understand why it's possible for

645
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: individual like me to be considered for a crime such

646
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 4: as this, you know. And I'm gonna give them my

647
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 4: story about my past, how I came to be here today,

648
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 4: and what I've done since I was incarcerated, and what

649
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 4: I plan to do when I get out. And for

650
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 4: that whole ten days after that, I had to wait

651
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 4: to get the results, seven to ten days. It was

652
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 4: the worst week of my life. No no sleep because

653
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: that whole week I already felt because the way that

654
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 4: they spoke to me inside the parole board, I felt

655
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: that there wasn't going to release me. My counselor gives

656
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 4: me the envelope. I opened it, and to be honest,

657
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: my eyes are teared up because I'm and I'm looking

658
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: for the worst. And it's sad to say I'm looking

659
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 4: for denial. I'm just looking for any word with a

660
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 4: D for denial, refuse, whatever. And I didn't see and

661
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 4: my counselors like you okay, I said, yeah, I just

662
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 4: I can't find the decision. So he's like, well, give

663
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 4: it to me, and he highlights it he knew before

664
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: and he gave it back to me, and I couldn't

665
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: believe it. They let me go and I'll be lying

666
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 4: out of there, you know, call my family and told

667
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 4: him and there was overjoyed, but it was it's still

668
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 4: a lot now just thinking about it.

669
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: I can't imagine. Nobody can imagine that hasn't been through it.

670
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 4: You know, that was the best moment for me in prison.

671
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 4: That and learning some stuff about myself because you know,

672
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 4: like I became the director of that used as system

673
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 4: program and I used to mentor teens that used to

674
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: bring high school kids in and I used to speak

675
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 4: to them about my life, life story, about how I

676
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 4: end up serving a life. Scientists for a quim I

677
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 4: didn't commit and how easy it is full you to

678
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 4: find yourself in situations like this by the company that

679
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 4: you keep in, the choices that you make, and the

680
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 4: bro shure that I penned had the title. You know,

681
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 4: you never get a second chance for first impression.

682
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: It's been an extraordinary experience for me getting to know

683
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: you and learning about your story. Of course, you know,

684
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: I thank you for coming in and sharing it, and

685
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: I think that through your words it's going to inspire

686
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 2: a lot of people to keep fighting whatever they're up against.

687
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 2: And now it's time for my favorite part of the show.

688
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: Fans of the podcast know that this is the time

689
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: when I turn off my microphone and just sit back

690
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: and leave your microphone on. For closing arguments.

691
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 4: I guess the one of the most things that I

692
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 4: could possibly say is for jurors, because district attorneys is

693
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: going to be them. They trying to win cases. Officers

694
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: are trying to lock people up. But as a juror,

695
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 4: it is your job to discern the truth, to find

696
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 4: the truth, and sometimes I guess they get more clouded

697
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: by what took place as opposed to what is the truth,

698
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 4: and so emotions come into play with everything as opposed

699
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 4: to rational and that's why you can find individuals such

700
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 4: as myself in positions like this where you can do

701
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: time for a crime you didn't commit, because people's emotions

702
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 4: are more tied up in the event, but not trying

703
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 4: to find the actual truth when they sit on jerors

704
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 4: on jury. I believe part of that outside of what

705
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 4: the district attorney did it detective did, the jurors are

706
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 4: the ones who has the final say, and if they

707
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 4: don't use rationale to decipher the truth from the garbage

708
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 4: that is being spewed out there, that's why there's so

709
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: many of us in prison. Ruefully, anyone out there that

710
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 4: is going through a situation such as this, just continue fighting.

711
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 4: No one knows what the future holds and his hope.

712
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you

713
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: get your podcasts.

714
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 3: It really helps.

715
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and

716
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very

717
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 2: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go

718
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 2: to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate

719
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 2: and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team

720
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show

721
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: is by three I'm Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be

722
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and

723
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason

724
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and

725
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: association with Signal Company Number one