Speaker 1: I have dealt with my body image my entire life,
Speaker 1: and then when I came into the television world, it
Speaker 1: was like whoa, it was magnified.
Speaker 2: We get these messages now about diet and health. The
Speaker 2: word health is kind of a stand in for weight loss.
Speaker 2: You hear it all the time, so it really is
Speaker 2: the air we breathe.
Speaker 1: For me, I would go to my grandma's house and
Speaker 1: it's like, here, eat this in this huge plate, and
Speaker 1: if you don't eat it, you don't love me. And
Speaker 1: it's almost like I want to say, that's kind of
Speaker 1: where it started. Hello, my beautiful people, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Cheeky's and Chill Podcast. So last week, the Makutura
Speaker 1: Podcast Network hosted its first live event, and guys, it
Speaker 1: was so much fun. It was so nice seeing so
Speaker 1: many of your faces at the iHeartRadio Theater in Burbing,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed answering your questions. So for those
Speaker 1: of you who missed the event, or for those of
Speaker 1: you who want to experience it again, we're going to
Speaker 1: air an episode of the live event here on my
Speaker 1: podcast in a couple of weeks, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 1: I just want to give you guys, a heads up
Speaker 1: about that, Okay, But moving on to today's episode. Today
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about something almost everyone thinks about,
Speaker 1: food and dieting. We're also going to be talking about
Speaker 1: eating disorders. So if you find any of these things triggering,
Speaker 1: you might want to skip the episode and listen to
Speaker 1: a previous episode. Okay, let's jump into today's episode. This
Speaker 1: is Cheeky's and Chill. Sitting here with me today is
Speaker 1: Cole Kasten. She's an award winning journalist and author of
Speaker 1: the new book What's Eating Us Women, Food and the
Speaker 1: Epidemic of Body Anxiety. In the book, Cole talks a
Speaker 1: lot about diet culture here in America and our relationship
Speaker 1: to food. Oh. I am so happy you're here with us.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on publishing your first book.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and I'm so happy to be
Speaker 2: here to you.
Speaker 1: I thank you. No. I think this is a very
Speaker 1: important topic, especially for women. I think men and women,
Speaker 1: but as women were told you're not thin enough, you're
Speaker 1: this or that, and me being in the industry. So
Speaker 1: we'll get into all of that in a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I want to know from you, what inspired you,
Speaker 1: what made you say I need to write my very
Speaker 1: first book and publish it about this topic.
Speaker 2: Well, I had written some smaller, shorter pieces about my
Speaker 2: personal experience with eating disorders, and I had also written
Speaker 2: some pieces as a journalist about these issues. And I
Speaker 2: never really wanted to write a book because I didn't
Speaker 2: want to sit in these issues any longer than I
Speaker 2: had to write. I wanted to talk about them, but
Speaker 2: not too much. And then I realized that these ideas,
Speaker 2: these thoughts in my head, these things I was telling
Speaker 2: my self in my head, the trouble I was having
Speaker 2: living what I was hoping to be like a more normal, peaceful,
Speaker 2: balanced life. It was not changing whether I wrote about
Speaker 2: it or not. So I became more curious. Am I
Speaker 2: the only one that can't resolve this? Am I the
Speaker 2: only one that doesn't feel like I'm on the other
Speaker 2: side of this? After struggling for so long? And so
Speaker 2: I decided to approach this like I would a journalist,
Speaker 2: instead of looking at it just as a patient or
Speaker 2: as a woman. I thought, I'm going to do this
Speaker 2: like a journalist and talk to people, and every single
Speaker 2: woman I interviewed for the book had some version. We
Speaker 2: all come from different backgrounds, we're all different people, but
Speaker 2: we shared so much, and so much of that was
Speaker 2: am I crazy? Is this in my head? Is this
Speaker 2: my fault? Same stuff over and over again. And that's
Speaker 2: when I felt this urgency to write a book, like
Speaker 2: let's get more information, let's get empowered from the information,
Speaker 2: let's find out what's missing, which is a lot, and
Speaker 2: let's try to fix it.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, first of all, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for doing this, because I have dealt with my body
Speaker 1: image for my entire life, and then you know, being
Speaker 1: in the industry and being a singer, being on television,
Speaker 1: it was even more so where I knew I was
Speaker 1: always thicker than all the rest of the girls at school,
Speaker 1: but then when I came into the television world, it
Speaker 1: was like whoa, it was magnified and even to the
Speaker 1: point where I feel and I saw in your book.
Speaker 1: I read in your book that also it's almost like
Speaker 1: those words get they get so attached to you and
Speaker 1: you believe them so much that instead of you even
Speaker 1: losing weight, you gain more weight. Like it's like this,
Speaker 1: like I feel like that's what happened to me, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I also saw that there's
Speaker 1: thirty million Americans that have eating disorders.
Speaker 2: And that statistic is pre pandemic, so it's kind of
Speaker 2: of the old statistic, like we really saw eating disorders
Speaker 2: and hospitalizations for eating disorders just explode during the pandemic.
Speaker 2: So those numbers, most of the researchers I spoke with
Speaker 2: agreed that they're pretty it's a low ball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what about kids, Like, how early are they
Speaker 1: developing these eating disorders now?
Speaker 2: Well, being a teenager is a really common time to
Speaker 2: develop an eating disorder, and that's usually when we think
Speaker 2: about eating disorders. That's what we have, that's the picture
Speaker 2: we have in our mind of like a teenager. Right,
Speaker 2: kids start to have these feelings sometimes around six or
Speaker 2: seven they want to lose weight. And then women who
Speaker 2: are eighty have eating disorders. So even though it happens,
Speaker 2: you know, it's very common. But teenagers, kids that are
Speaker 2: pretty young are starting to have these thoughts, these feelings,
Speaker 2: and of course they are because we're all walking the
Speaker 2: same earth, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And where do you think they're picking this up from?
Speaker 1: You think it's social media, families in school.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's so complex and it's all of
Speaker 2: those things and more things, right, so we also are
Speaker 2: just born into a world that is telling us from
Speaker 2: the second we are born we have to be thinner.
Speaker 2: I mean, your weight is evaluated from the second you
Speaker 2: can step on a scale. Right, So we get these
Speaker 2: messages now about diet and health too, Like the word
Speaker 2: health is kind of a stand in for weight loss now,
Speaker 2: so it's all very very blurry. But I think that
Speaker 2: we have a really complex attitude about our bodies because
Speaker 2: we get these diet messages, we get these health messages.
Speaker 2: Doesn't everyone have someone in their family, one way or
Speaker 2: another who was either on a diet, thinking about a diet,
Speaker 2: talking about what was on their plate, talking about they
Speaker 2: had to eat less. You hear it all the time.
Speaker 2: So it really is the air we breathe. And then
Speaker 2: if you add to that any sort of stress or
Speaker 2: trauma in your life, done right. So these are very complex,
Speaker 2: but it's like we have so many factors leading into
Speaker 2: it that can put us on this course to develop
Speaker 2: really unhealthy behaviors that can harm our bodies through restricting.
Speaker 1: And that's what I was going to ask my next question,
Speaker 1: what exactly does an eating disorder look like?
Speaker 2: I mean, that is the question of the hour I'm
Speaker 2: not doshing the question. But we know that there are
Speaker 2: some official eating disorders, like anorexia, which is really severely
Speaker 2: restricting your food intake until you get to a certain
Speaker 2: very low weight where you're really restricting food. There's bolima,
Speaker 2: where you're binging food and then purging it, and then
Speaker 2: binge eating, which is eating large, large amounts of food
Speaker 2: that the average person would probably not eat. It's kind
Speaker 2: of not really perfectly defined, right, But those are the
Speaker 2: three eating disorders we think of. But there's this whole
Speaker 2: other category of eating disorders that is based on everything else.
Speaker 2: And if you don't fit into one of those perfect
Speaker 2: meat categories, then you're in the everything else category. So
Speaker 2: I'll use myself as an example. I starved myself constantly.
Speaker 2: I was I guess you could say anorexic because I
Speaker 2: got very very very thin and didn't eat, But because
Speaker 2: I didn't have a particular BMI, I would not have
Speaker 2: been officially classified as anorexic. Oh wow, So it's called
Speaker 2: a typical anorexia, which is man. I make a joke
Speaker 2: about this in my book. It's not funny, not skinny
Speaker 2: enough for real anorexia. Geez. So you are forcing your
Speaker 2: body to get to a weight that's way below what
Speaker 2: it wants to be, and that's an eating disorder, but
Speaker 2: not really officially. So there are so many more disorders
Speaker 2: than there are definitions.
Speaker 1: And you feel that it's all it's like mental emotional,
Speaker 1: like it's all, you know, because I wonder, I'm like,
Speaker 1: is it emotional? I mean, I feel like I for
Speaker 1: a long time, I was an emotional eater. Sure, if
Speaker 1: I was really sad, it made me feel better to eat,
Speaker 1: you know, especially after losing my mom. That's when I
Speaker 1: feel I gained the most weight and I was holding
Speaker 1: onto it almost as if it was like, no, this
Speaker 1: is what makes me feel safe. And then I went
Speaker 1: through a divorce and it was even worse and it's
Speaker 1: like no matter what, like and I would just eat,
Speaker 1: and I would eat because it made me feel better.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, is it both mental and emotional?
Speaker 2: I mean A lot of the new research is pointing
Speaker 2: to the fact that these for many people have like
Speaker 2: a brain predisposition, like your brain may not trigger fullness
Speaker 2: the way the average person triggers fullness, or your brain
Speaker 2: may not register hunger the way the average person registers hunger.
Speaker 2: So you may not have a chemical regulation. So if
Speaker 2: some people tell you, oh, just kind of eat what
Speaker 2: you want, but your brain isn't giving you the accurate
Speaker 2: messages about hunger and what your body needs, you can't
Speaker 2: really do that intuitive eating thing. Another thing on tip
Speaker 2: top of that is, I mean you talk about your divorce,
Speaker 2: you talk about losing your mother, that's trauma, that's stress.
Speaker 2: So trauma sends us towards this as well. Right, So
Speaker 2: it's very complicated. We can't just say because a lot
Speaker 2: of people like to talk about social media, which is fair.
Speaker 2: Social media is not helping anyone with their body image. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's so much more complex than that.
Speaker 1: I feel like some people confuse eating healthy with having
Speaker 1: a problem with with an eating disorder. For example, if
Speaker 1: you are eliminating carbs or fats, is that just eating healthy?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: So the research from you know, I'm not a doctor,
Speaker 2: I'm a journalist, but the researchers I spoke with who
Speaker 2: are doctors who do research this say that when you
Speaker 2: eliminate one food or one food group, your brain and
Speaker 2: starts to notice that food group more So, let's say
Speaker 2: you give up bread and you're like, I'm seeing bread everywhere. Well,
Speaker 2: that's not just you and your willpower, that's your brain.
Speaker 2: Because like your brain doesn't care what you're wearing to
Speaker 2: the Grammys. You know what I'm saying, Like your brain
Speaker 2: doesn't care. She's trying to just keep you alive. So
Speaker 2: when you say I'm giving up bread, your body's like,
Speaker 2: we gotta find some bread.
Speaker 1: It's it's so true. I did. Yeah, and I did
Speaker 1: keto for so long, which is very like high protein,
Speaker 1: high fats, and like absolutely like no carbs, very little carbs.
Speaker 1: And it worked, don't get me wrong. And I liked it,
Speaker 1: and that's what I prefer most of the time. But
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. It's like my body was craving it
Speaker 1: even more than when I would have it. Instead of
Speaker 1: having a little bit, I would have a whole lot
Speaker 1: of it. You know. So I've learned. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: it's been a journey my entire life. Now I finally
Speaker 1: got him. Like, oh, it's portion control, you know. It's
Speaker 1: like I can have everything, it's just having a little
Speaker 1: bit of everything. If I deprive myself. And I say
Speaker 1: even the word diet for me, it's been where it's
Speaker 1: h I'm on a diet. It becomes like this negative
Speaker 1: connotation where it should be it's a lifestyle. WI change.
Speaker 1: I want to be healthy like I had. It was
Speaker 1: a whole switch in my mind. It's like, this is
Speaker 1: my lifestyle. I want to live longer, I want to
Speaker 1: feel good, and in order to do that, then I
Speaker 1: got to make these little changes. But if I want
Speaker 1: to have a little bit of cake, I'm going to
Speaker 1: have it, you know what I mean. It's all saying, okay,
Speaker 1: instead of having the entire slice, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: a few fork fools, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a journey, so I get it completely.
Speaker 2: But also it's hard.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: What you're talking about is really important to kind of
Speaker 2: highlight because when we change what the goal is, which
Speaker 2: is really really really hard. We change the goal in
Speaker 2: our head from like I'm trying to be smaller, which look,
Speaker 2: I understand if you're a human being in the entertainment industry,
Speaker 2: that is hard, you know, to actually think because you
Speaker 2: have people are If you're not thinking about your body
Speaker 2: all the time, other people around you are right. But
Speaker 2: I think if you think I want to have more energy,
Speaker 2: I want to feel good, I want to sleep better,
Speaker 2: whatever those goals are. If you can create goals that
Speaker 2: are not around the size of your body, it would
Speaker 2: serve you well. Because we can't control, especially as we
Speaker 2: get older, we can control less and less with that,
Speaker 2: so we might as well just be like, Okay, let
Speaker 2: me see how I can set some different goals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it was more than anything. As I'm
Speaker 1: getting more mature, getting older, you know, I'm more of
Speaker 1: like concerned about my poops. It's just the truth. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want to poop better, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: I want to have a better digesto system. And that's
Speaker 1: something that I've had an issue with. Again, I've been
Speaker 1: very like constipated. I'm always looking for fiber and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. I'm like, I need to start maybe my
Speaker 1: day off with like a green juice. I just I
Speaker 1: want to get things going and flowing. And that helped
Speaker 1: me a lot. Is like I had to remove like
Speaker 1: you said, I want to be thinner and to please
Speaker 1: other people. I'm like, if that, I want to feel good.
Speaker 1: I want to have more energy, I want to sleep better.
Speaker 2: And all this stuff gets harder to sustain, Like as
Speaker 2: we get older. So when I was younger, and I
Speaker 2: was starving myself, and I would eat an apple and
Speaker 2: throw up that apple because I was so afraid of
Speaker 2: what that would do to me. I mean, it's sick.
Speaker 2: It's sick. I probably could not have sustained that much
Speaker 2: longer than I did, even though I was able to
Speaker 2: for a long time. When you are doing behaviors that
Speaker 2: are that extreme, h it happened, you go to the
Speaker 2: hospital a second, it's not like you slowly start to
Speaker 2: feel like you are in an ambulance, no notice, right,
Speaker 2: So I know people don't want to talk about that
Speaker 2: piece of it because it's like, oh, it's fine, I
Speaker 2: just do that. It's like, we really have to talk
Speaker 2: about that. You don't know until you know, but it
Speaker 2: gets real fast, and so we have to start. It's
Speaker 2: a practice to if we can identify that something's going on,
Speaker 2: if we are able to seek treatment, which is really
Speaker 2: really hard. I wish it were obvious and easier, but
Speaker 2: it is not. That's another reason why I wrote the
Speaker 2: book to like this this information. If you or someone
Speaker 2: you love is struggling with this, like this is what
Speaker 2: you have to do. You have to do a lot
Speaker 2: of work because our culture is not set up to
Speaker 2: help people get well from this unfortunately, but to set
Speaker 2: when you're better, to you're getting better, to set different
Speaker 2: goals around eating an exercise, just like you're talking about
Speaker 2: and cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, so the diet industry is a multi milli actually
Speaker 1: billion dollar industry. What do you think about that? Do
Speaker 1: you think that that says like what we value in
Speaker 1: this world?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, yeah, we do have those values
Speaker 2: as a culture, of course, but I also think that
Speaker 2: these companies put more money than we could even imagine
Speaker 2: into advertising, into selling us this, and we're being very manipulated.
Speaker 2: And so that's when I talk to other people. I
Speaker 2: want to always tell everyone it's not your fault, like
Speaker 2: it's you know, I don't want to think about all
Speaker 2: the money as on diets and trainers all this stuff
Speaker 2: to make them, you know, like to change my body
Speaker 2: and not what I was thinking about health but really
Speaker 2: just thinking about one goal and one goal only, and
Speaker 2: that was getting smaller. But we are being really I
Speaker 2: don't want to say manipulated only because that makes it
Speaker 2: seem like we're not smart enough to figure it out.
Speaker 2: It's everywhere, it is everywhere, and it's not an accident.
Speaker 2: Companies are spending billions and billions and billions and billions
Speaker 2: of dollars to separate us from our money to lose weight. Right.
Speaker 2: And most of the people who seek weight loss treatments,
Speaker 2: weight loss programs, I'm one of them. Most people are
Speaker 2: repeat customers. That's where diet companies get most of the business.
Speaker 2: So if it's repeat customers, that means it's not working.
Speaker 2: Otherwise every weightless company would go out of business. Instead,
Speaker 2: it's a multi billion dollar industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I have a nutrition company, right, And obviously
Speaker 1: I have something it's called this s guinea stick, right,
Speaker 1: that's like it's supposed to help you like burn fat
Speaker 1: or whatnot. But it's like, our whole thing is wellness.
Speaker 1: It's just really wanting to be healthy and not do
Speaker 1: it just to be physically okay, but also internally the
Speaker 1: most importantly internally being healthy. And do you feel that
Speaker 1: the body positivity movement is changing anything at all?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I Mean what's so tricky is this goes so deep.
Speaker 2: So I think it's important that we see women of
Speaker 2: different sizes. I think that's really important. I also think,
Speaker 2: though we have to learn which I didn't know that
Speaker 2: people who are in larger bodies can be fired from
Speaker 2: their jobs for being in a larger body like legally,
Speaker 2: I didn't know that there were not legal protections for people.
Speaker 2: So many many years ago, a group of cocktail servers
Speaker 2: at a casino in Atlantic City. They sued because their
Speaker 2: boss was weighing them when they went back to work,
Speaker 2: and if they gained way, they were told they had
Speaker 2: to leave and come back when they lost the weight.
Speaker 2: That's legal. The case was dismissed because there's no protection.
Speaker 2: We have protections for gender, you know, sexual orientation, identity, ethnicity.
Speaker 2: No one can fire you because you are Mexican or Italian,
Speaker 2: but they can fire you for gaining twenty pounds.
Speaker 1: That's insane.
Speaker 2: So like the laws need to change, right, Like New
Speaker 2: York City just passed a law that will go into
Speaker 2: effect I think next year, of making height and weight
Speaker 2: discrimination illegal, and so those are now protected classes, but
Speaker 2: they're not protected federally. So I know I'm getting so
Speaker 2: knitting gritty here, but that connects to why doesn't someone
Speaker 2: like their body? Well, they may not know that they
Speaker 2: can be fired, but they can probably feel it, right,
Speaker 2: and that affects even though these weight issues definitely affect
Speaker 2: men to they affect women so much more, and some
Speaker 2: affects women in the workplace in a negative way and
Speaker 2: men sometimes in a positive way. There was a study
Speaker 2: of female political candidates and women who were larger heavier
Speaker 2: were not considered as trustworthy, and men who were larger
Speaker 2: were considered more powerful.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. What the heck? And I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you, like my personal experience now that
Speaker 1: I've lost about sixty something pounds, sixty seven pounds, I
Speaker 1: feel I see the difference in the industry how people
Speaker 1: treat me people in the industry like it's now it's
Speaker 1: kind of like and I had a whole episode on
Speaker 1: this and it's literally, oh my gosh, now you're so beautiful.
Speaker 1: And I'm like what, Like it's just like now they
Speaker 1: want to touch you and hug you, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: now you can come to dinner with us and you're
Speaker 1: part of our group. And I'm like, no, if you
Speaker 1: don't want me at my biggest, at my largest, at
Speaker 1: my beautifulness, then no, I'm not gonna be your friend.
Speaker 1: It just has to change as a whole, Like you said,
Speaker 1: like all these companies everything, everything, like that's why with
Speaker 1: even with everything that I do. I'm like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to have a casting call for for a body shape,
Speaker 1: and I want to bring in the real woman, the
Speaker 1: woman with the satellite, the curvy woman, even if there
Speaker 1: is a size six model next to you. But it's like
Speaker 1: coming together and uniting and showing the beauty that we
Speaker 1: can be beautiful all shapes and sizes. It could say
Speaker 1: something has to change. We all have to be intentional
Speaker 1: in doing this.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing I mean. That was another reason
Speaker 2: I was hoping that the book could at least inspire
Speaker 2: this that community is the way out of all of this.
Speaker 1: Community there you go, right.
Speaker 2: That is the key. Like I kept coming back to that, like, yes,
Speaker 2: there's you know, some scientific research and news studies and
Speaker 2: there are some great people doing some great work to
Speaker 2: help people. Yes, but community is where this is at.
Speaker 2: That is the way out. You need other people around you,
Speaker 2: maybe who have shared your lived experience, who you can
Speaker 2: connect with, who you can say exactly what you just
Speaker 2: said to me, Why weren't you coming up and hugging
Speaker 2: me when I was bigger? Right? Why why didn't you
Speaker 2: see me? Beautiful them? That has to happen, but we
Speaker 2: can't do that alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't. I talk about social media because I'm
Speaker 1: in the world and I've noticed that sometimes when I'm
Speaker 1: on you know, people's pages, you feel a little anxious
Speaker 1: and you feel like, you know, I'm like, I had
Speaker 1: to kind of remove myself and say I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: post and go about my day and not stay stuck
Speaker 1: on social media because a lot of these lifestyles, a
Speaker 1: lot of these bodies, which they're beautiful, you know, it's
Speaker 1: nice to see and look at, but it's a huge facade,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them have the money to make
Speaker 1: their bodies that way, and it's like it's a whole thing.
Speaker 1: That's a whole I feel like other episode. But it
Speaker 1: does cause a little bit of like anxiety, which is
Speaker 1: why it's like, hey, we have to be considerate and passionate,
Speaker 1: and everyone is beautiful, no matter your size, no matter
Speaker 1: you know. It's all about wanting to I think there's
Speaker 1: room for improvement for all of us, and wanting to
Speaker 1: be healthier, of course, but that doesn't mean because I'm
Speaker 1: twenty pounds heavier than you, I'm less pretty or smart,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you brought up anxiety too, because like
Speaker 2: we think about eating disorders or any kind of disordered eating,
Speaker 2: and I think the first thought I had is, you know,
Speaker 2: I knew someone who had a heart attack. I was
Speaker 2: researching some of the like immediate health dangers. But if
Speaker 2: you look past that, there is an intensity of anxiety,
Speaker 2: an intensity of depression. If you're feeling bad about your body,
Speaker 2: you may be less likely to want to go outside
Speaker 2: your house to exercise, You may not want to go
Speaker 2: to the doctor because you kind of feel about your body.
Speaker 2: So having other people tell you negative things about your
Speaker 2: body or just feeling that way really increases a lot
Speaker 2: of these mental health issues besides the eating part.
Speaker 1: Right, no, no, yeah, absolutely, And in your book it
Speaker 1: also talks about recovery and mental health. Can you talk
Speaker 1: about some of the steps people can take to change
Speaker 1: the way they think about food and their bodies.
Speaker 2: That's a big question. And yeah, but yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think one of the first things that people could
Speaker 2: really do, like even right now, is start looking at
Speaker 2: communities that they can be a part of that can
Speaker 2: support even if they don't have an eating disorder, but
Speaker 2: just want to start reframing the way they think about
Speaker 2: food and their bodies. There are some great communities out
Speaker 2: there for people with eating disorders who had one or
Speaker 2: have one, or a family member might be worried. So
Speaker 2: when they love has one, Project Heel is a great organization.
Speaker 2: And there's an amazing group called Now Go to Positivity
Speaker 2: Pride Oh run by this woman named Gloria Lucas, and
Speaker 2: she has a support group called Stage and Spoon. It's
Speaker 2: exclusively for BIPOC and they talk about these issues around
Speaker 2: recovery and food and bodies. And something that Gloria does
Speaker 2: with Ilgana is she deals a lot in harm reduction,
Speaker 2: which is saying to someone and she's actually a separate
Speaker 2: sent to talk to you. I don't want to speak
Speaker 2: for her, but she talks a lot about how you
Speaker 2: may be in this place where you're not being very
Speaker 2: kind to your body, but it may be a response
Speaker 2: to stress and trauma in your life, and no one
Speaker 2: can expect you to just snap your fingers and get
Speaker 2: all better. So how can we do little things harm
Speaker 2: reduction to get you a little healthier, maybe support you
Speaker 2: in other ways while you do what you need to
Speaker 2: do to alleviate your stress. And it's a really compassionate,
Speaker 2: beautiful approach, and so that's an area where that's a
Speaker 2: community that I would refer people to as well.
Speaker 1: I love that. I think it is just really about
Speaker 1: focusing inward and that's what helped me and I stopped
Speaker 1: listening to all that negativity because it was a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot being thrown at me, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what, at the end of the day, these
Speaker 1: people don't know me. What's important is what's inside me,
Speaker 1: my heart, who I am, you know, And I can
Speaker 1: get rid of the extra body, you know, fat or mass,
Speaker 1: you know. So I love that. The community thing I
Speaker 1: think is great, you guys, And I think that if
Speaker 1: you are struggling, definitely find someone a community and therapy.
Speaker 1: And I'm a huge advocate for therapy and counseling just
Speaker 1: because it starts there. Like you said, there's trauma. There's
Speaker 1: things that you know, we're dealing with that sometimes we
Speaker 1: don't even know that we're dealing with until you speak
Speaker 1: to someone and they help you start your healing journey
Speaker 1: in that way, and I feel like everything else will
Speaker 1: just will follow, you know.
Speaker 2: There's something I just I just kind of remembered. But
Speaker 2: there was one group I spoke with called the Body
Speaker 2: Positive there in northern California, and they had these meditations
Speaker 2: to kind of turn inward like you were talking about,
Speaker 2: and think about you know, your body, and look at
Speaker 2: your body in different ways. And one of the meditations
Speaker 2: really stood out to me. It was an ancestor meditation
Speaker 2: where you close your eyes and you think about your ancestors,
Speaker 2: and if you don't know your ancestors, to kind of
Speaker 2: imagine one, you know, someone who just lived a long
Speaker 2: time ago who's connected to you. And I thought of
Speaker 2: my great grandmother for that exercise, and I thought about
Speaker 2: her life, which was hard. She had eight children and
Speaker 2: she was all alone. And if you think about her
Speaker 2: body and my body and how we are connected. This
Speaker 2: woman I never met because she passed away so young,
Speaker 2: but her body was went through stuff, carried stuff, and
Speaker 2: that is a little bit somewhere in me. And if
Speaker 2: we think about our bodies in this deeper, bigger way.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we can't go around thinking about our
Speaker 2: bodies like that. At every moment, we're functioning, we're going
Speaker 2: to the gym, living our lives, right, But when we
Speaker 2: had a quiet moment to think about where we came
Speaker 2: from and the bodies that came before us. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: it gets deeper, it gets deeper.
Speaker 1: I like that. I'm gonna try that. I love meditating,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna try that. Okay. Cool. So I just
Speaker 1: wanted to touch a little bit on our culture, you know,
Speaker 1: like I feel for me, it was a lot in
Speaker 1: like I would go to my grandma's house and it's like, here,
Speaker 1: eat this in this huge plate of food, and if
Speaker 1: you don't eat it, you don't love me. And it's
Speaker 1: almost like I think, I want to say, that's kind
Speaker 1: of where it started. I'm not blaming anyone, but it's
Speaker 1: just I think it has to do with like the
Speaker 1: portions and even living in America, and it's like everything's
Speaker 1: big and the bigger the better, and when in reality,
Speaker 1: we just need like a little bit to survive, you know.
Speaker 1: And I mean growing up in a Latin household, it
Speaker 1: was beans and rice and tortillas and a little bit
Speaker 1: of protein, you know what I mean. And it's just
Speaker 1: I think it's just the way I grew up and
Speaker 1: almost like, oh, there's so many starving children in the world,
Speaker 1: so you need to eat all your food, don't leave
Speaker 1: anything on the plate. And you almost felt guilty, like
Speaker 1: I'm wasting food. You know, it's something I still struggle with,
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Honest, Yeah, I think the wasting food. I grew up
Speaker 2: with that too.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: My mom's Italian. I grew up in a family that
Speaker 2: was all about food as celebration. And you want food,
Speaker 2: you want food to be that right, like food should
Speaker 2: be about celebration. But there's also that like all or
Speaker 2: nothing thing where like if there's food scarcy, Like I
Speaker 2: did not grow up in a food scarcy house, but
Speaker 2: for people with food scarcity, and if you're not eating
Speaker 2: and you don't have a lot, and then there's a
Speaker 2: big celebration so you eat like for the week at
Speaker 2: one dinner. I'm not saying that was your experience, but
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like you find that, like everyone has
Speaker 2: a different access to food. And then culturally, if food
Speaker 2: is celebratory, it's actually you can overeat and play in
Speaker 2: sight and it's not seen as weird or no one's
Speaker 2: going to notice something's wrong. I'm not saying it is weird.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that it's something very easy to do in
Speaker 2: play insight, especially if culturally food is a big part
Speaker 2: of celebrations, which it is for most cultures.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, and it's a beautiful thing, don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong. Like I love Mexican food, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I just grew up and I learned how
Speaker 1: to eat it and how to serve myself a realistic
Speaker 1: amount so that I don't waste food, you know, because
Speaker 1: I did grow up in a home where we didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot growing up, and so whatever it is
Speaker 1: that we had, we had to be very grateful for it,
Speaker 1: and you know, you had to finish it, and it
Speaker 1: was like a huge thing, which I'm like, Okay, it
Speaker 1: was my childhood and I had a beautiful childhood, and
Speaker 1: I can't necessarily like complain in any way. But now
Speaker 1: that I'm older, now I can like fix those things,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: But I also think that I didn't do this research,
Speaker 2: but this was research I read that someone else had
Speaker 2: done that. Other diets, like the Mexican diet, Chinese diet,
Speaker 2: other diets are not study with the same rigor as
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean diet, which is essentially a white European diet,
Speaker 2: and so it's kind of viewed as the gold standard
Speaker 2: for healthy eating and olive oil is great for you
Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. But the other diets
Speaker 2: are not studied with the same thoroughness and enthusiasm, and
Speaker 2: so what I would love to see is other diets
Speaker 2: to be as studied as the Mediterranean diet, because the
Speaker 2: Mediterranean diet would be a great diet for people who
Speaker 2: come from that part of the world.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I love Actually I went to Greece and
Speaker 1: the food was amazing and I just felt so good.
Speaker 1: It was fresh, and there was a lot of olive
Speaker 1: oil everywhere, and that's one thing, Like I have a
Speaker 1: book it was I did, like a recipe book for
Speaker 1: keto because I wanted there to be like more Latin
Speaker 1: flavor in my food or whatnot. And I just wanted to,
Speaker 1: more than anything, show the Latin culture that you can
Speaker 1: still eat all your favorite foods. It's just instead of
Speaker 1: using lard, you can use all of oil. Like, making
Speaker 1: small changes go a very long way, especially in your health. Obviously, yes,
Speaker 1: you want to lose weight or whatnot, but at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's your heart health and your
Speaker 1: cholesterol and your blood pressure. For me, it's like, now
Speaker 1: that I'm getting older, it's like those things are what
Speaker 1: are most important to me. So okay, cool, So tell us.
Speaker 1: Is there a cure for this?
Speaker 2: Well, there's not a cure. It's treatable. The reason why
Speaker 2: eating disorders, I think, have reached such epidemic proportions is
Speaker 2: because there really isn't a standard of care. I mean,
Speaker 2: I interviewed one of the top eating disorder researchers in
Speaker 2: the world and I was like, what do you mean
Speaker 2: there's no standard of care. He's like, yeah, it's really
Speaker 2: too bad. There's no standard of care. It's like you're kidding, Like,
Speaker 2: you go to the doctor you have an eating disorder,
Speaker 2: and it's not like if you go to the doctor
Speaker 2: and have depression and they say, oh, try therapy, try it,
Speaker 2: anti depress it, whatever. They have stuff eating disorders kind
Speaker 2: of the wild West. Some people are doing great work.
Speaker 2: Some people are doing stuff that doesn't really work, but
Speaker 2: they won't really tell you that. Some places say we'll
Speaker 2: get you better right away, just come here. I was
Speaker 2: told that was a red flag if a place tells
Speaker 2: you that they can get you better. But that's the
Speaker 2: battle is that there isn't a cure. There isn't a guaranteed,
Speaker 2: consistent system that works. A lot of eating disorder treatment
Speaker 2: is for profit, doesn't take insurance maybe hasn't even been researched.
Speaker 2: It really is unregulated, which is why I think it's
Speaker 2: important that we ask questions make sure that the providers
Speaker 2: that we seek are not going to also put us
Speaker 2: on a diet while they're treating our eating disorder, which
Speaker 2: happens that we go into a physician or a therapist
Speaker 2: that is weight inclusive, meaning they treat people of all
Speaker 2: sizes and are not going to judge or shame people
Speaker 2: for whatever weight they are at find communities in the
Speaker 2: absence of great treatment, and there are so many amazing
Speaker 2: grassroots communities out there that can help us educate ourselves
Speaker 2: and support our healing. And when you see the other
Speaker 2: women that are on the other side of it, it
Speaker 2: is so inspiring. Like for me right now, I see
Speaker 2: so many body positive fitness like I love exercise, like
Speaker 2: I loved it too much when I was younger. I
Speaker 2: would exercise for hours and hours and hours. But I
Speaker 2: don't want to not exercise because I don't have anyting
Speaker 2: disorder anymore. Right So I looked at body positive fitness
Speaker 2: communities and I tried to figure out what's honest exercise
Speaker 2: for me, And so now I'm doing a lot of
Speaker 2: heavy lifting. And I met with this trainer. I said, Dude,
Speaker 2: I had an eating disorder. I got a lot of
Speaker 2: problems in my relationship with my body. I don't want
Speaker 2: to talk about toning up or leaning out or any
Speaker 2: of the stuff. Could we just lift heavy stuff? And
Speaker 2: he's like, cool, So we lift.
Speaker 1: Out a side because you're sweating and you're you're releasing
Speaker 1: that whatever it is.
Speaker 2: You know, this is amazing workout. It's so good for
Speaker 2: my mental health. And I can actually set a goal
Speaker 2: that's honest where I'm not like getting unskilled seeing checking
Speaker 2: in where ami because that's not great for me personally
Speaker 2: some people that works me, that's not good for it
Speaker 2: sends me down a dangerous road. Instead, I'm like, go downstairs,
Speaker 2: get like the big box of cat litter and I'm like.
Speaker 1: Heck yeah, running it up the stairs.
Speaker 2: Right. So that's something I can measure that's healthy, that
Speaker 2: makes me feel good and powerful and so that to
Speaker 2: me has something, But it takes a lot of trial
Speaker 2: and error to get there, and it could be different
Speaker 2: for each person.
Speaker 1: And my lovely listeners, you know, I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: any of you guys are cyberbullize or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's just being mindful every single day of
Speaker 1: being nice, being considerate, being compassionate, because sometimes it's so easy,
Speaker 1: especially on social media, to say oh, you're so fat,
Speaker 1: you're so ugly, you're this or that. It's like you
Speaker 1: never know what that person is going through and why
Speaker 1: it is that perhaps they're holding onto way or not
Speaker 1: being able to even gain weight, because sometimes some people
Speaker 1: can't gain weight and you're like, oh, you're too skinny.
Speaker 1: It's just like just live and let live you guys,
Speaker 1: and be nice.
Speaker 2: That's such a good point. It's such a good point.
Speaker 2: And then you think of this, this radical idea. What
Speaker 2: if we stopped talking about women's bodies all together? What
Speaker 2: if we stop talking about our body? What if we
Speaker 2: stopped thinking about someone else's body? What if we even
Speaker 2: when we compliment someone like you can catch yourself like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, you look amazing, did you? And then
Speaker 2: what you're gonna say, wool was Wait what if we
Speaker 2: stopped it? All?
Speaker 1: Right? Yes, it'd be great. I'd rather you tell me
Speaker 1: I love the color of your hair. You know, my god,
Speaker 1: what beautiful eyes you have? You know? Cold before you go?
Speaker 1: I'd love to know where we can find your book.
Speaker 1: Is there a website? Give me your social media, anything
Speaker 1: and everything that you want to say right now, it
Speaker 1: is your time girl.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. The book is called What's
Speaker 2: Eating Us Women, Food and the Epidemic of Body Anxiety.
Speaker 2: You can buy it anywhere you buy books, Kendle hardcover, audiobook, Amazon, Audible,
Speaker 2: anywhere you buy books. I'm on Instagram only and it's
Speaker 2: at Cole Kasten col E k z d N and
Speaker 2: my name is also my website. But people can find
Speaker 2: me in any of those places.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: I love this conversation and I hope this conversation helps
Speaker 1: people because I think we have all struggled with this
Speaker 1: in some point. Even still, I'm telling you guys, I
Speaker 1: still it's an everyday thing for me and I just
Speaker 1: have to remind myself what's important. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And you guys know, before we go, we always have
Speaker 1: a quote to start your week off on the right foot.
Speaker 1: Hopefully here it is as you heal, you learn to
Speaker 1: honor yourself, your feelings, and your authenticity. So that is
Speaker 1: a quote. You guys, Thank you so much for listening Cole,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you and everyone. Go out and get her book,
Speaker 1: follow her on Instagram, check her out, and I will
Speaker 1: hopefully talk to you soon. Do you need advice on love, relationships,
Speaker 1: health emails? I'm so excited to share with you that
Speaker 1: my Cheeky's and Chill podcast will have an extra episode
Speaker 1: drop each week. I'll be answering all your questions. Just
Speaker 1: leave me a voice message first one Monday. All you
Speaker 1: have to do is go to speak pipe dot com,
Speaker 1: slash Cheeky's and Chill podcast and record your questions. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear from you. This is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and the Micaeldura podcast Network. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Instagram at Michael Dura Podcasts and follow me Cheeky's That's
Speaker 1: c h i q.
Speaker 2: U i s.
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