WEBVTT - Dave Schools 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.200 My guest today is Dave's Schools. You know him as 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:19.040 the basis for Widespread Panic. He's a record producer, remember 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.320 the hard working Americans and a great guy to boot Dave. 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.120 Great to have you here. Thank you for having me, Bob. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.479 How you doing. I'm doing well. You know an email 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:31.400 you said you wanted to talk about the Beatles documentary 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.280 Get Back. So what did you have to say about that? 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.760 You know, I could say so much. We don't want 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.600 to burn all of our time on it, but it's 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.760 it's so important. And I watched it all in one 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.960 fell swoop over Thanksgiving weekend, and I mean I was 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.800 just blown away. And I guess the primary thing for 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.520 someone of my age. I was born in nineteen sixty four, 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.360 and I got turned onto the Beatles when I was 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.760 probably in third or fourth grade, single by single, uh 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.440 gigging into the past. And I went to see the 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.039 Let It Be movie at the late night midnight movie 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.800 when I was in high school, and I realized that 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.840 I feel like we've been kind of lied to about 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.000 the breakup the Beatles. The the editing of the original 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.840 Let It be movie created a cultural shift. Uh. You know, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.679 the Yoko Ono thing became almost like a you know, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.840 every band has their Yoko Ono um. And what I 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.800 thought was revealed in this Get Back documentary was that 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.480 it wasn't that way. It wasn't an acrimonious scene during 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.680 the recording of this. It was a It just made 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.679 me so happy because it was a band trying to 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.600 get back to something that they had left behind a 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.840 few years earlier, which is playing in front of people, um, 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.080 and they're trying to work up new material and they're 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.520 all getting along and yeah, they're testy and there are problems, 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.920 but it was just amazing to me. I'm like, so 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.440 this is normal. I mean, I've been a and we're 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.800 not the Beatles, but we pull songs together, we fight 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.320 like brothers, we uh strive to get out in front 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.880 of people. And yeah, they were boring parts and there 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.960 are parts that were okay. But when they get to 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:21.000 that rooftop, that is a band playing and freezing cold 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.839 the best they can to people they really can't see, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.000 because they certainly couldn't see down on the street. They 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.000 saw people on rooftops as it went on, but it 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.040 was just glorious and I loved it, and I felt 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.280 like nearly fifty years of me thinking things went down 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:40.720 one way, we're literally washed away in six hours, seven hours. Well, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.000 I agree really with everything you say, the you know, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.120 the fact that you go through seven and a half 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.920 hours before you get to the rooftop. What astounded me 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:53.480 was how great they were on the rooftop, how they 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.679 kicked it up a notch. You know, I've been privileged 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:57.919 to be with you know, world class skiers. He can 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.359 skive them every day, but when competition, it's they don't freeze, 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.120 they get better. And then you know Paul twisting the 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.840 way he did, and then the way John Lennon kind 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.680 of bounces on its feet like a little bit like 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.320 a frog. It was wow. Really, you know, makes your 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:18.280 inside flutter. Yeah, you know, as a we agree about 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.000 the power of music, the power to unite people. And 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.760 there's something about a group of guys playing together on 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.760 stage or on a roof or in a studio. When 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.760 something magic happens can't be recreated by computers and production. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.960 It's a human thing. It's a connection thing. And man, 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:43.400 it's just traveled across fifty some years of stored film footage, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.200 and you know, the work they did restoring that film 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.600 and the audio is just it's fantastic. It was palpable 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.200 um and and it's funny because there's a scene where 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.920 Paul says, this is when we're at our best, when 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.760 our backs are against the wall. And then you can 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.560 tell that all the years of training in those little 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.920 nightclubs and those residencies and foreign countries and just being 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:10.040 together and and sort of suffering as a group, um, 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.320 that never goes away. You know, you might have to 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.800 like chip away, it's some stone to get back to 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.200 it after a few years off the road, but when 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:23.240 you find it, it's like a spewing fountain head. It's amazing. Okay, Well, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.560 we certainly saw them in depth recording the what ultimately 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.600 became the Let It Be album. That begs the question 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.560 in your band, when you want to make a new record, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.640 let's talk about white spread panic. Because you're involved in 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.200 a lot of different acts, both as a producer and 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.400 a player. Uh, how do you do it? Does everybody 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.560 come with songs already written? You work it out in 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.039 the studio like they did. Well, it's it's been you know, 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.960 we've been a band almost twelve thirty five years we've 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.640 been a band, and there's an evolution. You know, things 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.320 were different when we started um and we certainly weren't 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.160 ever the Beatles, with our own studio on Seve will 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.279 Row and you know, the best E M I engineers 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.800 at our behest. But there's an evolution to where the 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.960 first time you go into the studio it's just glorious 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.880 and you don't know what's happening. And the first time 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.640 you hear playback on something that you find acceptable, it's 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.160 shocking and thrilling um. And then you get into this 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.640 thing where we got signed. Uh. Well, you know, we 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.159 made our first record, Space Wrangler, with our producer John Keene, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.680 in his living room of his house. Bit by bit, 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:31.800 we record a few songs, go out on the road, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.800 play some gigs, get some more money to record a 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.799 few more songs, and we made the Space Wrangler record, 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.800 and then we got signed by Capricorn really quickly. And 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:45.680 what happens then is you're in the studio and you're 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.520 kind of under the gun. Budgets were certainly far inflated 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.000 back then, but you want to get it right, but 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.360 you don't have the experience to know that you have 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.560 to just chill and be a band. So for a 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.080 couple of records, it's get it and and you you 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.799 play a little fast and you make some sacrifices. Luckily, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.600 our producer at the time on those early Capricorn records 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.159 was the great Johnny Sandlin, who had worked with the 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.840 Almond Brothers and all kinds of Southern rock stalwarts. UM 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.000 and that man was a groove detector, and he kind 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.000 of taught us to slow down and listen for that magic. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.960 You know, the magic isn't in getting it right a 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.919 flawless performance. The magic is that thing that happens with 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.680 a group of guys who can listen and play and 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.760 respond something an X factor takes over. And so he 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.760 would make us do take after take and hold us 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.680 to slowing things down. So then we began to understand 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.839 what we were trying to capture. UM and it's elusive 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:49.800 and you could burn a lot of time trying to 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.719 find it. And then later, you know, as the nineties 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.960 war on pro tools came in and then all of 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.159 a sudden there was this he didn't really have to 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.960 commit drums again to get gritted out. Are we were 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.159 back with our producer John Keene, and we're like, you know, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.520 I remember a conversation between Mike Howser and John Keene 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.640 where we were trying to play to a click track 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.320 and Mike Houser's tops to take and he goes, John, 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.840 I swear this thing slowing down, and John Keene, you 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.760 just hear this kind of like click, Mikey, it's a machine. 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.840 It doesn't slow down or speed up. And so, you know, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.440 it's just always an evolution. I think, you know, there's 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.400 what a band can do as a group with the 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.320 tools of the studio, and then there's trying to keep 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:48.120 up with an interface with this incredibly quick modern evolution 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.520 of these tools. You know, with the digital thing, you 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.200 don't have to commit, you know. I try to push 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.440 young bands I work with to commit to like reach 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.800 down into themselves and find that thing that's elusive. But 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:03.920 so many of them coming here, like they sing one 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.360 chorus and they're like, okay, so yeah, you can just 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.120 fly that across the rest of the track, right, And 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.320 I'm like, yeah, but are you gonna do that live? 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.640 And maybe if they're gonna be playing the tapes, they 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.120 don't have to sing it, But most of us you're 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.080 gonna have to sing it, you know, let's do it. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.200 We're here in a nice room with good sound. Let's 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:24.240 go ahead and capture the humanity. Well, the humanity is 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.840 what it makes makes it great, and the imperfections are 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.360 what given edges like velcro to get those little hooks 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.360 you want to get the loops. But okay, let's talk 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.600 about recent recordings. Do you come with the songs finished 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.880 or to what degree of those figured out in the studio? Well, 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.199 that's that's been a change too in the old days. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.240 Once we stopped living together in the band house. You know, obviously, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.240 when we're all living together in the band house, we 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.600 we're hanging out right in music and laughing our asses 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.439 off all the time. Uh. We were notorious for rehearsing 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.640 in front of audiences. Um, you know, and and okay, wait, 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.199 wait slow, what would you consider rehearsing in front of 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.280 the audience to be, oh, a gig that we charge 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.480 money for? No? I mean, how would that different. Let's 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.880 say I'm on the other side of the stage. Okay, 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.640 the band is playing, you know, the band might be jamming. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.320 What would be different between that and what you consider 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.600 to be a rehearsal. Well, we probably wouldn't stop and 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.680 laugh in the middle of a stage rehearsal as it were. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.360 But you know, we were jamming, and we took chances, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.560 and and we played a lot of cover songs, and 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.559 as we wrote new material, we kick out the covers 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.520 that weren't that great or that cool, and and gradually 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.440 we just ceased to be a cover band, and we 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.120 kept a lot of the covers that we sort of, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.520 like some people would use the word interpreted, I like 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.160 to sort of self deprecatingly say, we just weren't that 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.880 good at playing them, so we just sort of had 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.200 our way with them. But we still like a song 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:02.640 like low Spark a High Heel Boys. That is it's 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.600 right for improvisation. You know, as long as you sing 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.839 the melody, play that counterpoint music, then there are these 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:13.760 spaces where you can go wherever you want. And we've 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.600 always done that with that song. It's probably one of 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.480 the oldest covers we ever did. But so we'd be 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.640 living in a band house and cobbling these things together 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.839 and tightening them up on stage in front of people. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.480 We took chances. It's where you kind of found the 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.160 sea legs of a song. We were able to get 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.760 away with taking chances. Our audience allowed that, and in 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.360 fact they expected it. They love the humanity of the band. UM. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.720 There's pretty much nothing better than stumbling and catching yourself 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.760 with grace, and sometimes it happens if you allow that 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:53.920 to happen in live music. UM. But then people got married, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.480 had kids, bought their own houses, and so when we 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.720 come to the studio with new material after that point, 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.920 people came with their own demos. UH. In relative states 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:08.120 of of finished nous. Mike Howser was had a tendency 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.760 to show up with literally three times more songs than 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.439 anybody else UM, and he just sort of play them 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.200 and show him to us. He might have recorded them 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.640 sitting on his back porch with his acoustic guitar, whereas 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.920 John Bell was he likes to try his hand at 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.280 home recording, so he'd play some bass and he'd put 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.840 a drum machine on it. But he never wanted to 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.280 steer anyone too far in a certain direction. Everybody really 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.000 respected the input of everybody else, whether it was in 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.839 our living room rehearsing, or whether it was with the 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.840 tape rolling in the studio. UM. And now that we 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.520 don't play as much on the road and we are 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:52.800 scattered all across the country, that sort of bringing a 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.240 more finished demo into the picture is is far more acceptable. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:01.040 But everybody is all about plan can change. We can 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.480 pivot at any time someone drops a brick. Hey, that's 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.400 actually sounded pretty good. Maybe that's our middle four that 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:12.800 I didn't see coming. Okay, you're in the studio. One 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.880 thing that was kind of both tense and interesting watching 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.640 Get Back is the personalities interact. At first, you know, 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.360 Paul sort of the sleeve driver. Then John is kind 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.760 of retiring, and then John becomes were active, George Littley 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:33.680 quits the band. What about the personalities interacting in the studio. Well, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.800 you know, I guess the lesson we all learned the 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.200 older we get is communication really is key, um. And 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:46.000 also familiarity breeds contempt. And thirdly, it's like a family 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:52.760 dynamic with siblings. So sometimes communication is the hardest part. Uh, 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.840 And sometimes it's hard to break through methods of communication 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.560 that have sort of solidified over decades. Uh. You know, 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.200 you can sense that resentment in George, you know, and 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.000 you can sort of sense the like power dynamic between 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.400 John and Paul where at one point it's like you 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.240 used to run the band, but I guess now I'm 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.520 the boss. And then at the end, at the end, 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.400 you know, he says, now we're the boss again, that's right, um. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.040 And there's also with the end of realizing that the 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.400 end is actually closer than they might think, and it 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.400 looks like Paul is crying and it really gets me 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.680 and I I it's it can be triggering in a 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.760 lot of ways to watch something like that with myself 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.440 having thirty years of history. You know, we are a 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.400 band of brothers. Widespread panic. Um. We've lost two of them, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:50.280 they've passed away, and so whatever communication problems or challenges 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.959 that John Bell and I might face, we're constantly trying 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.240 to work through. And there are times where it's more tense, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:03.160 and especially after like taking the COVID time off. You know, 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.079 we when we reconvened in Athens, Georgia at the Georgia 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:12.080 Theater to rehearse um. And you've probably noticed this too 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:17.000 with people, stuff kind of comes out sideways in unpredictable 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.760 ways after being sort of cooped up and subject to 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:23.560 pressure all the various outside pressures. We were all sort 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:28.560 of suffering in solitary UM and it got weird with communication. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.720 It's palpable, but we've been together for a long time 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.600 and it's worth working through. But those are things that 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.120 definitely they come up in the studio, and the studio 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.920 tends to turn the heat up a little bit. You know, 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.320 that tape might be rolling, or ones and zeros are 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:50.760 spinning by, the lights are on, Mike's are on, uh, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.760 And no matter how hard you try to lose that awareness, 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:01.280 you're always aware that what you say might not land 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.160 the way you intended to land UM, and that can 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.680 be tough, you know, to get back thing it's I 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.640 thought that it was amazing. I literally saw a cameraman 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.120 maybe three times until they got on the roof. I 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.840 literally forgot. I felt like I was a fly on 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.400 the wall, you know. And then how did those guys 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.880 go from I can understand being in a movie studio 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:29.480 like Twickenham is not an ideal place to to reconvene UM. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.040 But once they got into their home turf, no matter 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.960 how new it really was for them, they seem to 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.080 have just they forgot those cameras were there. And we're 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.520 not talking about little digital cameras mounted on a stick, 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.320 hidden away. We're talking about big cameras that need film change, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.280 sixteen millimeter all the time. Uh. It was amazing to me. 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.000 Although at the very end, during the credit when they 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.080 show the clapper and then you start to you know, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.840 realize that the film crew was more intrusive than you 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.920 thought they were in the beginning of the the documentary. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.000 But let's go back to being in the studio. You know, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.640 we live in a world of compromise. Everything's about business 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:15.520 getting along. But in the movie, especially Paul, he'll really 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.440 drill ree all three of them and say I want 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.600 it like this, I want it like this. And you're 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.640 certainly after George leaves the man and Baul starts acting 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.560 that way, especially in the third uh episode, you start 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.120 to wins and say, hey, this guy is gonna react, 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.320 you know if you keep pushing him. So as a 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.400 band member, to what degree can you stand up and 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.720 say no, this is the way I need it to be, 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.680 or at what point do you say compromise goes Sometimes 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.160 someone has a different opinion. Other times you just feel 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.960 like you're pushing them. Yeah, I think I think that 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.920 in the case of the Beatles, there's a pretty high 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.160 bar that they were always trying to top, so that 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.560 maybe their end goal was a little different, you know, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.640 as far as like success and relative value of what 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:05.840 they're doing would make someone push Uh. But I think 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.399 it's a it's a philosophy and a lot of times 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.879 it's it's the way it's delivered. Like for Widespread Panic, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.320 John Bell is a guy that just wants to get 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.480 his idea into the hands of everybody else, and what 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:24.439 everybody else changes about it or provides that's unique to 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:30.800 them musically thrills him. Whereas Mike Howser would. I mean, 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.399 he told me one time, He's like, hey, when it 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.240 gets to this part, can you play this B chord 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.600 instead of what you've been playing? And that's you know, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.960 it depends on the delivery system, Uh, the way that 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.720 communication was asked. UM. A great example I'll jump to 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.800 when I was playing with Government Mule and Chuck Lavelle 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.879 was playing keyboards and I had known Chuck for a while, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.240 super sweet guy, one of the nicest, most gent heel 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.760 people in rock and roll UM, and we were working 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.000 up the song compared to what you know that song 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.480 Eddie Eddie Harris song with that amazing extrapolated intro, and 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.200 Schuck wanted to play it and he could certainly could 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.720 play it, you know, and we had played at a 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.359 time or two rehearsed it, and we debuted it the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.359 night before, and then the next night we were you know, 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.680 at some theater somewhere and sound checking and we're kind 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.840 of running through the intro and Chuck looks at me 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:30.920 and he goes, hey, you know, Dave, when it gets 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.440 to this part, da da da, I wish you would 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.200 play this. And I was just like, you know, your 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.560 wishes by command, you know, which is different because you're 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.360 right when when Paul starts sort of telling George how 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.719 to play the way he's delivering that, it's making me WinCE. 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.959 I'm like, you know this this is a powder keg. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.160 You could feel it, and certainly with widespread panic it's 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.240 been that way. Um. But we're learning as a family, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.520 you know, whitebread panic. Everything was d I y. We 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.680 were against the grain. We didn't sound like any other 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.320 Athens band at the time. Uh, you know, we no 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.080 one really cared about a weirdo band from the South, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.359 So we had to learn how to do everything in 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.160 our own way, including simply how to be a band. 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.879 And for us, being a band was learning how to 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.080 play together. You know, you can you can have the 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.879 way that you play your instrument, and you can be great. 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.120 You can have chops, you can be academically schooled. Um. 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.359 But the worth of a band and the sound of 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.000 a band comes when four people come together and learn 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.760 how to play together and whitchpread panic. You know, we 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.760 all just sort of taught ourselves, and then we came 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.399 together and we taught ourselves as a group, and I 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.760 think that's why we pretty much instantly had a sound 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.400 that was unlike anyone else. I look at a band 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.720 like you two, and if I could be a fly 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.480 on a wall and hear them rehearsing before they got 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.320 put into a studio with a producer, I bet it's 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.879 four guys learning how to make that sound of you 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.320 two together, probably completely unaware that that's what's happening. You know. 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.400 That's the sort of thing where I realized it about 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.960 widespread panic after a few records and looking back and 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.400 hearing other bands talk about how they crafted their sound 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.960 or how a producer helped them find their sound, and 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.320 I was like, huh, I think we just sort of 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.800 we just lucked out, you know, we just showed up 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:37.040 knowing what we knew, and then the unit, the hive mind, 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:42.879 sort of took care of everything else. Um and I 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.640 think that there's an evolution in that you can see 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.840 some of it and get back. How revelatory is it 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.880 when Paul sits down and starts strumming that after bass 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.159 like it's a rhythm guitar and pulling the words to 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.720 get back out of the atmosphere. It was like alchemy, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.480 although I'm not sure that I believe that's the first 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:07.359 time he did it. Well, you know, was that Phil 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.040 Walden said to us, it's all spoken mirrors boys, mirrors, 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:22.480 that's for sure. So just talking to you for a 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.520 minute or two, not only are you very verbal, you're 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:32.520 very intelligent. And what's it like interacting with other musicians? 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.840 You know, Bob Dylan had that song Darre Loan Landlord 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.320 Wich says each of us has his own special gift, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.000 and you know that was meant to be true. And 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.880 if you don't underestimate me, I won't underestimate you, which 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.760 I've really uses my mantra. Since people have intelligence in 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.000 different ways, there are people who can barely speak, but 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.840 are unbelievable at their instrument. But what's it like for 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.879 you interacting with musicians? Generally speaking? Rock music is not 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:06.760 a highbrow endeavor. It's not, but it is. And you're 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.000 absolutely right, you know you nailed me. Verbal is a 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.320 very nice way of putting it. When I've gotten in 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.520 trouble working with bands, I think it's because I talked 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.280 too much. You know, uh, if we're gonna string get 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.679 back all the way through. I think that there's a 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.880 lot of great information in the way that not only 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.920 Glenn John's is sort of just allowing the band and 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.919 capturing it, and the way George Martin is it's just 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.600 like laying on the floor writing the newspaper in his 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.760 suit until you know the one clip that I love 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:38.960 the most, he's you know, Glenn's like, Okay, so the 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:42.440 idea is we're gonna just capture a song and and 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.400 and it'll be sort of live. And then George cuts 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:46.879 him off. He's like, here's what we'll do. We'll rehearse 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:48.520 it and we'll play it. And then he goes in 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.520 the joke Bode and he's like, we'll play it again 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.439 and again and again. We're not gonna edit it. Um, 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.679 I talked too much. It's always been my thing. Um. 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.760 I don't know if it's intelligent or anxiety or what, 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.480 but I've learned when working with bands, to give the 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:10.840 thing the space to happen. Whether it's an artist like 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.480 Todd Snyder that will come in and just he wants 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.040 to just kind of spew his ideas, he wants to 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:22.360 just throw this haystack. I called it like a haystack 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.280 of golden needles, and we're looking for the platinum one 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:33.040