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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Dave's Schools. You know him as

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Speaker 1: the basis for Widespread Panic. He's a record producer, remember

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Speaker 1: the hard working Americans and a great guy to boot Dave.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you here. Thank you for having me, Bob.

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Speaker 1: How you doing. I'm doing well. You know an email

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Speaker 1: you said you wanted to talk about the Beatles documentary

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Speaker 1: Get Back. So what did you have to say about that?

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Speaker 1: You know, I could say so much. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to burn all of our time on it, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's so important. And I watched it all in one

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Speaker 1: fell swoop over Thanksgiving weekend, and I mean I was

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Speaker 1: just blown away. And I guess the primary thing for

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Speaker 1: someone of my age. I was born in nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 1: and I got turned onto the Beatles when I was

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Speaker 1: probably in third or fourth grade, single by single, uh

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Speaker 1: gigging into the past. And I went to see the

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Speaker 1: Let It Be movie at the late night midnight movie

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Speaker 1: when I was in high school, and I realized that

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Speaker 1: I feel like we've been kind of lied to about

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Speaker 1: the breakup the Beatles. The the editing of the original

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Speaker 1: Let It be movie created a cultural shift. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Yoko Ono thing became almost like a you know,

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Speaker 1: every band has their Yoko Ono um. And what I

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Speaker 1: thought was revealed in this Get Back documentary was that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't that way. It wasn't an acrimonious scene during

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Speaker 1: the recording of this. It was a It just made

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Speaker 1: me so happy because it was a band trying to

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Speaker 1: get back to something that they had left behind a

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Speaker 1: few years earlier, which is playing in front of people, um,

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Speaker 1: and they're trying to work up new material and they're

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Speaker 1: all getting along and yeah, they're testy and there are problems,

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Speaker 1: but it was just amazing to me. I'm like, so

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Speaker 1: this is normal. I mean, I've been a and we're

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Speaker 1: not the Beatles, but we pull songs together, we fight

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Speaker 1: like brothers, we uh strive to get out in front

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Speaker 1: of people. And yeah, they were boring parts and there

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Speaker 1: are parts that were okay. But when they get to

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Speaker 1: that rooftop, that is a band playing and freezing cold

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Speaker 1: the best they can to people they really can't see,

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Speaker 1: because they certainly couldn't see down on the street. They

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Speaker 1: saw people on rooftops as it went on, but it

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Speaker 1: was just glorious and I loved it, and I felt

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Speaker 1: like nearly fifty years of me thinking things went down

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Speaker 1: one way, we're literally washed away in six hours, seven hours. Well,

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Speaker 1: I agree really with everything you say, the you know,

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Speaker 1: the fact that you go through seven and a half

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Speaker 1: hours before you get to the rooftop. What astounded me

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Speaker 1: was how great they were on the rooftop, how they

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Speaker 1: kicked it up a notch. You know, I've been privileged

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Speaker 1: to be with you know, world class skiers. He can

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Speaker 1: skive them every day, but when competition, it's they don't freeze,

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Speaker 1: they get better. And then you know Paul twisting the

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Speaker 1: way he did, and then the way John Lennon kind

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Speaker 1: of bounces on its feet like a little bit like

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Speaker 1: a frog. It was wow. Really, you know, makes your

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Speaker 1: inside flutter. Yeah, you know, as a we agree about

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Speaker 1: the power of music, the power to unite people. And

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Speaker 1: there's something about a group of guys playing together on

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Speaker 1: stage or on a roof or in a studio. When

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Speaker 1: something magic happens can't be recreated by computers and production.

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Speaker 1: It's a human thing. It's a connection thing. And man,

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Speaker 1: it's just traveled across fifty some years of stored film footage,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the work they did restoring that film

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Speaker 1: and the audio is just it's fantastic. It was palpable

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Speaker 1: um and and it's funny because there's a scene where

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Speaker 1: Paul says, this is when we're at our best, when

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Speaker 1: our backs are against the wall. And then you can

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Speaker 1: tell that all the years of training in those little

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Speaker 1: nightclubs and those residencies and foreign countries and just being

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Speaker 1: together and and sort of suffering as a group, um,

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Speaker 1: that never goes away. You know, you might have to

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Speaker 1: like chip away, it's some stone to get back to

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Speaker 1: it after a few years off the road, but when

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Speaker 1: you find it, it's like a spewing fountain head. It's amazing. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: we certainly saw them in depth recording the what ultimately

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Speaker 1: became the Let It Be album. That begs the question

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Speaker 1: in your band, when you want to make a new record,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about white spread panic. Because you're involved in

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Speaker 1: a lot of different acts, both as a producer and

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Speaker 1: a player. Uh, how do you do it? Does everybody

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Speaker 1: come with songs already written? You work it out in

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Speaker 1: the studio like they did. Well, it's it's been you know,

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Speaker 1: we've been a band almost twelve thirty five years we've

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Speaker 1: been a band, and there's an evolution. You know, things

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Speaker 1: were different when we started um and we certainly weren't

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Speaker 1: ever the Beatles, with our own studio on Seve will

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Speaker 1: Row and you know, the best E M I engineers

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Speaker 1: at our behest. But there's an evolution to where the

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Speaker 1: first time you go into the studio it's just glorious

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Speaker 1: and you don't know what's happening. And the first time

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Speaker 1: you hear playback on something that you find acceptable, it's

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Speaker 1: shocking and thrilling um. And then you get into this

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Speaker 1: thing where we got signed. Uh. Well, you know, we

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Speaker 1: made our first record, Space Wrangler, with our producer John Keene,

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Speaker 1: in his living room of his house. Bit by bit,

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Speaker 1: we record a few songs, go out on the road,

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Speaker 1: play some gigs, get some more money to record a

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Speaker 1: few more songs, and we made the Space Wrangler record,

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Speaker 1: and then we got signed by Capricorn really quickly. And

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Speaker 1: what happens then is you're in the studio and you're

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Speaker 1: kind of under the gun. Budgets were certainly far inflated

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Speaker 1: back then, but you want to get it right, but

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Speaker 1: you don't have the experience to know that you have

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Speaker 1: to just chill and be a band. So for a

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Speaker 1: couple of records, it's get it and and you you

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Speaker 1: play a little fast and you make some sacrifices. Luckily,

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Speaker 1: our producer at the time on those early Capricorn records

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Speaker 1: was the great Johnny Sandlin, who had worked with the

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Speaker 1: Almond Brothers and all kinds of Southern rock stalwarts. UM

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Speaker 1: and that man was a groove detector, and he kind

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Speaker 1: of taught us to slow down and listen for that magic.

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Speaker 1: You know, the magic isn't in getting it right a

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Speaker 1: flawless performance. The magic is that thing that happens with

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Speaker 1: a group of guys who can listen and play and

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Speaker 1: respond something an X factor takes over. And so he

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Speaker 1: would make us do take after take and hold us

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Speaker 1: to slowing things down. So then we began to understand

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Speaker 1: what we were trying to capture. UM and it's elusive

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Speaker 1: and you could burn a lot of time trying to

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Speaker 1: find it. And then later, you know, as the nineties

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Speaker 1: war on pro tools came in and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden there was this he didn't really have to

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Speaker 1: commit drums again to get gritted out. Are we were

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Speaker 1: back with our producer John Keene, and we're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember a conversation between Mike Howser and John Keene

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Speaker 1: where we were trying to play to a click track

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Speaker 1: and Mike Houser's tops to take and he goes, John,

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Speaker 1: I swear this thing slowing down, and John Keene, you

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Speaker 1: just hear this kind of like click, Mikey, it's a machine.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't slow down or speed up. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just always an evolution. I think, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: what a band can do as a group with the

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Speaker 1: tools of the studio, and then there's trying to keep

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Speaker 1: up with an interface with this incredibly quick modern evolution

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Speaker 1: of these tools. You know, with the digital thing, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to commit, you know. I try to push

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Speaker 1: young bands I work with to commit to like reach

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Speaker 1: down into themselves and find that thing that's elusive. But

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Speaker 1: so many of them coming here, like they sing one

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Speaker 1: chorus and they're like, okay, so yeah, you can just

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Speaker 1: fly that across the rest of the track, right, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but are you gonna do that live?

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Speaker 1: And maybe if they're gonna be playing the tapes, they

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Speaker 1: don't have to sing it, But most of us you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to sing it, you know, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: We're here in a nice room with good sound. Let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and capture the humanity. Well, the humanity is

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Speaker 1: what it makes makes it great, and the imperfections are

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Speaker 1: what given edges like velcro to get those little hooks

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Speaker 1: you want to get the loops. But okay, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about recent recordings. Do you come with the songs finished

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Speaker 1: or to what degree of those figured out in the studio? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's that's been a change too in the old days.

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Speaker 1: Once we stopped living together in the band house. You know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: when we're all living together in the band house, we

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Speaker 1: we're hanging out right in music and laughing our asses

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Speaker 1: off all the time. Uh. We were notorious for rehearsing

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Speaker 1: in front of audiences. Um, you know, and and okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait slow, what would you consider rehearsing in front of

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Speaker 1: the audience to be, oh, a gig that we charge

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Speaker 1: money for? No? I mean, how would that different. Let's

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Speaker 1: say I'm on the other side of the stage. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the band is playing, you know, the band might be jamming.

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Speaker 1: What would be different between that and what you consider

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Speaker 1: to be a rehearsal. Well, we probably wouldn't stop and

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Speaker 1: laugh in the middle of a stage rehearsal as it were.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we were jamming, and we took chances,

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Speaker 1: and and we played a lot of cover songs, and

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Speaker 1: as we wrote new material, we kick out the covers

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Speaker 1: that weren't that great or that cool, and and gradually

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Speaker 1: we just ceased to be a cover band, and we

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Speaker 1: kept a lot of the covers that we sort of,

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Speaker 1: like some people would use the word interpreted, I like

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Speaker 1: to sort of self deprecatingly say, we just weren't that

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Speaker 1: good at playing them, so we just sort of had

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Speaker 1: our way with them. But we still like a song

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Speaker 1: like low Spark a High Heel Boys. That is it's

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Speaker 1: right for improvisation. You know, as long as you sing

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Speaker 1: the melody, play that counterpoint music, then there are these

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Speaker 1: spaces where you can go wherever you want. And we've

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Speaker 1: always done that with that song. It's probably one of

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Speaker 1: the oldest covers we ever did. But so we'd be

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Speaker 1: living in a band house and cobbling these things together

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Speaker 1: and tightening them up on stage in front of people.

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Speaker 1: We took chances. It's where you kind of found the

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Speaker 1: sea legs of a song. We were able to get

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Speaker 1: away with taking chances. Our audience allowed that, and in

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Speaker 1: fact they expected it. They love the humanity of the band. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's pretty much nothing better than stumbling and catching yourself

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Speaker 1: with grace, and sometimes it happens if you allow that

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Speaker 1: to happen in live music. UM. But then people got married,

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Speaker 1: had kids, bought their own houses, and so when we

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Speaker 1: come to the studio with new material after that point,

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Speaker 1: people came with their own demos. UH. In relative states

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Speaker 1: of of finished nous. Mike Howser was had a tendency

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Speaker 1: to show up with literally three times more songs than

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Speaker 1: anybody else UM, and he just sort of play them

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Speaker 1: and show him to us. He might have recorded them

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Speaker 1: sitting on his back porch with his acoustic guitar, whereas

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Speaker 1: John Bell was he likes to try his hand at

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Speaker 1: home recording, so he'd play some bass and he'd put

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Speaker 1: a drum machine on it. But he never wanted to

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Speaker 1: steer anyone too far in a certain direction. Everybody really

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Speaker 1: respected the input of everybody else, whether it was in

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Speaker 1: our living room rehearsing, or whether it was with the

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Speaker 1: tape rolling in the studio. UM. And now that we

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Speaker 1: don't play as much on the road and we are

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Speaker 1: scattered all across the country, that sort of bringing a

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Speaker 1: more finished demo into the picture is is far more acceptable.

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Speaker 1: But everybody is all about plan can change. We can

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Speaker 1: pivot at any time someone drops a brick. Hey, that's

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Speaker 1: actually sounded pretty good. Maybe that's our middle four that

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Speaker 1: I didn't see coming. Okay, you're in the studio. One

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Speaker 1: thing that was kind of both tense and interesting watching

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Speaker 1: Get Back is the personalities interact. At first, you know,

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Speaker 1: Paul sort of the sleeve driver. Then John is kind

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Speaker 1: of retiring, and then John becomes were active, George Littley

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Speaker 1: quits the band. What about the personalities interacting in the studio. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess the lesson we all learned the

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Speaker 1: older we get is communication really is key, um. And

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Speaker 1: also familiarity breeds contempt. And thirdly, it's like a family

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Speaker 1: dynamic with siblings. So sometimes communication is the hardest part. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it's hard to break through methods of communication

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Speaker 1: that have sort of solidified over decades. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can sense that resentment in George, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you can sort of sense the like power dynamic between

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Speaker 1: John and Paul where at one point it's like you

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Speaker 1: used to run the band, but I guess now I'm

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Speaker 1: the boss. And then at the end, at the end,

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Speaker 1: you know, he says, now we're the boss again, that's right, um.

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Speaker 1: And there's also with the end of realizing that the

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Speaker 1: end is actually closer than they might think, and it

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Speaker 1: looks like Paul is crying and it really gets me

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Speaker 1: and I I it's it can be triggering in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways to watch something like that with myself

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Speaker 1: having thirty years of history. You know, we are a

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Speaker 1: band of brothers. Widespread panic. Um. We've lost two of them,

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Speaker 1: they've passed away, and so whatever communication problems or challenges

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Speaker 1: that John Bell and I might face, we're constantly trying

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Speaker 1: to work through. And there are times where it's more tense,

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Speaker 1: and especially after like taking the COVID time off. You know,

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Speaker 1: we when we reconvened in Athens, Georgia at the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Theater to rehearse um. And you've probably noticed this too

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Speaker 1: with people, stuff kind of comes out sideways in unpredictable

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Speaker 1: ways after being sort of cooped up and subject to

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Speaker 1: pressure all the various outside pressures. We were all sort

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Speaker 1: of suffering in solitary UM and it got weird with communication.

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Speaker 1: It's palpable, but we've been together for a long time

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Speaker 1: and it's worth working through. But those are things that

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Speaker 1: definitely they come up in the studio, and the studio

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Speaker 1: tends to turn the heat up a little bit. You know,

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Speaker 1: that tape might be rolling, or ones and zeros are

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Speaker 1: spinning by, the lights are on, Mike's are on, uh,

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Speaker 1: And no matter how hard you try to lose that awareness,

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Speaker 1: you're always aware that what you say might not land

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Speaker 1: the way you intended to land UM, and that can

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Speaker 1: be tough, you know, to get back thing it's I

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Speaker 1: thought that it was amazing. I literally saw a cameraman

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Speaker 1: maybe three times until they got on the roof. I

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Speaker 1: literally forgot. I felt like I was a fly on

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Speaker 1: the wall, you know. And then how did those guys

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Speaker 1: go from I can understand being in a movie studio

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Speaker 1: like Twickenham is not an ideal place to to reconvene UM.

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Speaker 1: But once they got into their home turf, no matter

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Speaker 1: how new it really was for them, they seem to

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Speaker 1: have just they forgot those cameras were there. And we're

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Speaker 1: not talking about little digital cameras mounted on a stick,

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Speaker 1: hidden away. We're talking about big cameras that need film change,

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Speaker 1: sixteen millimeter all the time. Uh. It was amazing to me.

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Speaker 1: Although at the very end, during the credit when they

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Speaker 1: show the clapper and then you start to you know,

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Speaker 1: realize that the film crew was more intrusive than you

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Speaker 1: thought they were in the beginning of the the documentary.

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Speaker 1: But let's go back to being in the studio. You know,

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Speaker 1: we live in a world of compromise. Everything's about business

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Speaker 1: getting along. But in the movie, especially Paul, he'll really

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Speaker 1: drill ree all three of them and say I want

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Speaker 1: it like this, I want it like this. And you're

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Speaker 1: certainly after George leaves the man and Baul starts acting

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Speaker 1: that way, especially in the third uh episode, you start

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Speaker 1: to wins and say, hey, this guy is gonna react,

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Speaker 1: you know if you keep pushing him. So as a

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Speaker 1: band member, to what degree can you stand up and

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Speaker 1: say no, this is the way I need it to be,

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Speaker 1: or at what point do you say compromise goes Sometimes

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Speaker 1: someone has a different opinion. Other times you just feel

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Speaker 1: like you're pushing them. Yeah, I think I think that

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Speaker 1: in the case of the Beatles, there's a pretty high

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Speaker 1: bar that they were always trying to top, so that

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Speaker 1: maybe their end goal was a little different, you know,

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Speaker 1: as far as like success and relative value of what

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Speaker 1: they're doing would make someone push Uh. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a philosophy and a lot of times

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Speaker 1: it's it's the way it's delivered. Like for Widespread Panic,

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Speaker 1: John Bell is a guy that just wants to get

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Speaker 1: his idea into the hands of everybody else, and what

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Speaker 1: everybody else changes about it or provides that's unique to

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Speaker 1: them musically thrills him. Whereas Mike Howser would. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he told me one time, He's like, hey, when it

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Speaker 1: gets to this part, can you play this B chord

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Speaker 1: instead of what you've been playing? And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the delivery system, Uh, the way that

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Speaker 1: communication was asked. UM. A great example I'll jump to

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Speaker 1: when I was playing with Government Mule and Chuck Lavelle

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Speaker 1: was playing keyboards and I had known Chuck for a while,

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Speaker 1: super sweet guy, one of the nicest, most gent heel

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Speaker 1: people in rock and roll UM, and we were working

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Speaker 1: up the song compared to what you know that song

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Speaker 1: Eddie Eddie Harris song with that amazing extrapolated intro, and

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Speaker 1: Schuck wanted to play it and he could certainly could

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Speaker 1: play it, you know, and we had played at a

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Speaker 1: time or two rehearsed it, and we debuted it the

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Speaker 1: night before, and then the next night we were you know,

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Speaker 1: at some theater somewhere and sound checking and we're kind

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Speaker 1: of running through the intro and Chuck looks at me

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Speaker 1: and he goes, hey, you know, Dave, when it gets

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Speaker 1: to this part, da da da, I wish you would

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Speaker 1: play this. And I was just like, you know, your

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Speaker 1: wishes by command, you know, which is different because you're

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Speaker 1: right when when Paul starts sort of telling George how

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Speaker 1: to play the way he's delivering that, it's making me WinCE.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know this this is a powder keg.

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Speaker 1: You could feel it, and certainly with widespread panic it's

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Speaker 1: been that way. Um. But we're learning as a family,

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Speaker 1: you know, whitebread panic. Everything was d I y. We

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Speaker 1: were against the grain. We didn't sound like any other

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Speaker 1: Athens band at the time. Uh, you know, we no

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Speaker 1: one really cared about a weirdo band from the South,

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Speaker 1: So we had to learn how to do everything in

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Speaker 1: our own way, including simply how to be a band.

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Speaker 1: And for us, being a band was learning how to

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Speaker 1: play together. You know, you can you can have the

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Speaker 1: way that you play your instrument, and you can be great.

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Speaker 1: You can have chops, you can be academically schooled. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the worth of a band and the sound of

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Speaker 1: a band comes when four people come together and learn

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Speaker 1: how to play together and whitchpread panic. You know, we

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Speaker 1: all just sort of taught ourselves, and then we came

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Speaker 1: together and we taught ourselves as a group, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's why we pretty much instantly had a sound

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Speaker 1: that was unlike anyone else. I look at a band

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Speaker 1: like you two, and if I could be a fly

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Speaker 1: on a wall and hear them rehearsing before they got

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Speaker 1: put into a studio with a producer, I bet it's

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Speaker 1: four guys learning how to make that sound of you

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Speaker 1: two together, probably completely unaware that that's what's happening. You know.

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Speaker 1: That's the sort of thing where I realized it about

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Speaker 1: widespread panic after a few records and looking back and

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Speaker 1: hearing other bands talk about how they crafted their sound

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Speaker 1: or how a producer helped them find their sound, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, huh, I think we just sort of

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Speaker 1: we just lucked out, you know, we just showed up

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Speaker 1: knowing what we knew, and then the unit, the hive mind,

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Speaker 1: sort of took care of everything else. Um and I

356
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Speaker 1: think that there's an evolution in that you can see

357
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Speaker 1: some of it and get back. How revelatory is it

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Speaker 1: when Paul sits down and starts strumming that after bass

359
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 1: like it's a rhythm guitar and pulling the words to

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Speaker 1: get back out of the atmosphere. It was like alchemy,

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Speaker 1: although I'm not sure that I believe that's the first

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Speaker 1: time he did it. Well, you know, was that Phil

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Speaker 1: Walden said to us, it's all spoken mirrors boys, mirrors,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. So just talking to you for a

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Speaker 1: minute or two, not only are you very verbal, you're

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Speaker 1: very intelligent. And what's it like interacting with other musicians?

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Speaker 1: You know, Bob Dylan had that song Darre Loan Landlord

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Speaker 1: Wich says each of us has his own special gift,

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Speaker 1: and you know that was meant to be true. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't underestimate me, I won't underestimate you, which

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Speaker 1: I've really uses my mantra. Since people have intelligence in

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Speaker 1: different ways, there are people who can barely speak, but

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Speaker 1: are unbelievable at their instrument. But what's it like for

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Speaker 1: you interacting with musicians? Generally speaking? Rock music is not

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Speaker 1: a highbrow endeavor. It's not, but it is. And you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, you know you nailed me. Verbal is a

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Speaker 1: very nice way of putting it. When I've gotten in

378
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Speaker 1: trouble working with bands, I think it's because I talked

379
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Speaker 1: too much. You know, uh, if we're gonna string get

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Speaker 1: back all the way through. I think that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of great information in the way that not only

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Speaker 1: Glenn John's is sort of just allowing the band and

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Speaker 1: capturing it, and the way George Martin is it's just

384
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Speaker 1: like laying on the floor writing the newspaper in his

385
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Speaker 1: suit until you know the one clip that I love

386
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Speaker 1: the most, he's you know, Glenn's like, Okay, so the

387
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Speaker 1: idea is we're gonna just capture a song and and

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Speaker 1: and it'll be sort of live. And then George cuts

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Speaker 1: him off. He's like, here's what we'll do. We'll rehearse

390
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: it and we'll play it. And then he goes in

391
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Speaker 1: the joke Bode and he's like, we'll play it again

392
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: and again and again. We're not gonna edit it. Um,

393
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: I talked too much. It's always been my thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's intelligent or anxiety or what,

395
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: but I've learned when working with bands, to give the

396
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Speaker 1: thing the space to happen. Whether it's an artist like

397
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Speaker 1: Todd Snyder that will come in and just he wants

398
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Speaker 1: to just kind of spew his ideas, he wants to

399
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Speaker 1: just throw this haystack. I called it like a haystack

400
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: of golden needles, and we're looking for the platinum one

401
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: in it. Um, why instruct that guy, We'll just enable it. Um.

402
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: Other artists need a little more. What they need is vindication. Uh. Jason,

403
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: my engineer, we were talking about a session we had

404
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: here at the studio and the artist came back a

405
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: week later to throw some keyboards on and there was

406
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: no one around to sort of vindicate what he played.

407
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: And he was sort of looking out of the control

408
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: room through the glass at Jason while he was enabling

409
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Speaker 1: the recording. Um, you know, is this cool? So some

410
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: artists want just maybe the eye contact or a little

411
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 1: bit of a smile like yeah, that's great. Um. And

412
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: others want to be what their hands really held and

413
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of pulled. They want someone to push them or

414
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: help them separate all their ideas. Uh, maybe me being

415
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: so verbal is me trying to sort through to what's

416
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Speaker 1: most important. Um. And so for the artist that has

417
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: a lot of ideas, maybe they need to spew them

418
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: all and have someone go, hey, that one there that works.

419
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Speaker 1: It works for me, does it work for you? I

420
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Speaker 1: just I want to continue to evolve, bob and and

421
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Speaker 1: I love it when people give me honest feedback because

422
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: it helps me get better at what it is I'm

423
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Speaker 1: trying to do. And all I'm trying to do is

424
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Speaker 1: get better. You know, it would be great if I

425
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: could win a Grammy. It would make my mom happy,

426
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: you know. But really, when I hear an artist say

427
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: that there pleased with what we captured in the studio,

428
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: or that that's it to me, that that makes me

429
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: really happy, it's almost as thrilling as what I was

430
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: saying earlier about hearing my band on the first time

431
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: on playback in the studio. It's like, Wow, it's a

432
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: great feeling. Okay, there's you know this mantra that no

433
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: one can tell a hit. I don't really agree with that.

434
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Never mind, commercially, if you do something phenomenal, you know. Actually,

435
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: my favorite story on this So I was talking to

436
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: Al Cooper, who's telling me the story of recording Sweet

437
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: Home Alabama. And it was recorded a year before it

438
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 1: came out, the first album just come out. I said, out,

439
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: did you know it was a hit? And he says

440
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: it was Sweet Home Alabama? You know. So the question is,

441
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: do you know when you're locked in and something is transcendent? Yeah,

442
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's unlike. It's not unlike the zone that

443
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: athletes say they get into. I mean, you're talking to

444
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: someone that isn't a band that sort of specializes in

445
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: not having hits. We have catchy songs, and we have

446
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: short songs. Um, but really what we're after is the

447
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: word you just used as transcendence. It's a transportation was

448
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: it Jerry Garcia that famously said the Grateful Dead is

449
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: isn't in the music business or in the transportation business. Uh,

450
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: that's to me, that's the thing. And so if I

451
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: was to be interviewed after a concert like an athlete

452
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: after a game, I would hope that more times than not,

453
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I don't remember what happened. It must

454
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: have been good. And it wasn't because I was fucked up,

455
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: you know it was. It was because I was lost

456
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: in the moment of of that transcendent zone. Um. I

457
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: think me being a huge led Zeppelin fan. And they

458
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: talked about when they took the p a outside and

459
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: cranked the mix of Dancing Days and everybody was dancing

460
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: on the grass. That's the kind of moment, you know.

461
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: It's like true. When I heard that song when I

462
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: was in fourth grade, I it. I couldn't believe it.

463
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: It was like a trip to another world. Well, the

464
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: funny thing is, no one ever talks about that song

465
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: from Houses Holy. A lot of people think Houses Holy

466
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: the best album. I don't agree. But they mentioned all

467
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: these songs, Dancing Days is the one for me. It's crazy.

468
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean, here's a little story about me. I went

469
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: to Vermont in fourth grade for the summer with one

470
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: of my friends and his older brother and his friend came.

471
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: And this was the days where even if you're going

472
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: to Nag's Head for a week, you bring the whole

473
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: high five system and a creative LPs, and so there's

474
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: this whole moving in ritual and everything, and and the

475
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: older boys would go off and do what they did,

476
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: and us younger guys, we'd sneak in. And they had

477
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: a stash of the National Lampoon magazines, which were hilarious

478
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: and kind of edgy for us. And then they had

479
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: to they had their albums, and I remember a Goodbye

480
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: Yellow Brick Road. I knew Elton John I had his

481
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: greatest Hits record, and I had Beatles records. But I

482
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: saw that houses the Holy cover with all those little

483
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: blonde babies crawling up that apocalyptic landscape. What's it? The

484
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: giants causeway um And there's no band name on it,

485
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: there's no information whatsoever. I'm like, this looks weird. Let's

486
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: put it on. And my friends brothers friend's sister had

487
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: written her name in the top corner of the record

488
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: in weird calligraphy, and her name was Lisa whole Grave.

489
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: And so I put the record on. Dance of Days

490
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: comes on, Robert Plant sounds like a girl. I'm thinking,

491
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: who is this Lisa whole Grave? They rock And I

492
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: remember going to UH it was the best products show room.

493
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: You're an East Coaster, you might remember this. This place.

494
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: It was like a catalog place you could go into.

495
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: They had a record department was some very disinterested clerks,

496
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: and I came in there with my dad and, you know,

497
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: my six dollars to buy a record. And I walk

498
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: up and go, do you guys have that Leasa Whole

499
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: Grave record? And they're like, what are you talking to who?

500
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, it's this weird record with

501
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: these all little naked blonde girls crawling up this red thing.

502
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, yeah, that's sled Zeppelin. So that's

503
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: my weird story about dancing days. And and I seem

504
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: to have a weird history of listening to classic records,

505
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,239
Speaker 1: starting with Side Too, and it informs the way that

506
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: I forever hear the record. I don't know why I

507
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: started with side to the first time I heard Sergeant

508
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: Peppers it was on cassette at a little sleepover party,

509
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: and uh, for years I thought Within You Without You

510
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: was the first song with Sergeant Peppers. If only it was. Boy,

511
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: what an amazing piece of music. Right, So you are

512
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: upbeat and low quasies. You ever get depressed, you ever

513
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 1: get down, Bob. You know, I'm a I grew up

514
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: as an only child of latch Key Kid, so my

515
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: best friends were books and records. And yeah, I get depressed.

516
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: I get lonely. I grew up thinking, man, if I

517
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: just had siblings to to torture me, or if my

518
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: best friend lived a little closer. Uh, you know, I

519
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: could ride my bike and hang out. And so I

520
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: sat around and and it's funny because my stasis is solitary.

521
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: You know, when I need to recharge my will, I

522
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: need to do it solitarily. But at the same time,

523
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: my nemesis is being alone, if that makes any sense. Um.

524
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: So it's sort of a weird push and pull with me.

525
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: And as you know, like on a tour, buser's no aloneness.

526
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: The most alone you can get is to crawl into

527
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: your bunk, pull the curtain and hope that the air

528
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: conditioning stays on. UM. So it's it's funny, and it

529
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: can be really really exhausting. But yeah, I get depressed

530
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: and and uh, I gotta tell you that social media

531
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: exacerbates it. For me. I look through Instagram and what

532
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: started as a neat way to see what my family

533
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: was doing and eating, um, and then catch up and

534
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: keep up with bands that I love, friends that I

535
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: have in in bands that are always traveling around. Uh,

536
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: since they started doing the ads, and the AI took

537
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: over what you saw and it stopped being instant as

538
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: an instant Graham, I'm like, I'm missing my god daughter's posts,

539
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, because the AI doesn't she doesn't post frequently enough.

540
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: Whereas you know, quest love is is. He's a good

541
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: poster post a lot and a lot of it's amazing information.

542
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: But a lot of times now I just get depressed

543
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: and uh, and it's funny. It's sometimes times it makes

544
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: me want to give up music. I can't tell you why,

545
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: but that's my own personal down a little bit, Okay,

546
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: the feeling of given giving up music? How much is Instagram?

547
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: How much is this being overwhelmed by social media? How

548
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: much of it is feeling powerless? How much is feeling

549
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: that there's no context? Tell me a little bit more.

550
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: It's it's all of that. I mean with the social

551
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: media thing, I think it's an unintentional comparison syndrome. Um,

552
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: it's really because everybody's putting their best foot forward. They're

553
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: showing you the thing they're most proud of. Very few

554
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: people get on social media and show you the thing

555
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: that they're least proud of, or they're not going to

556
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: post when they're having a bad day. Um, But everything

557
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: else you said, it's true. I think with me it

558
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: can be burnt out. Um, sometimes it's I'm not doing enough.

559
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: You know. If I can get into my happy place

560
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: in the studio and work with somebody, it refills my will.

561
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: I'll never get tired of it. I might get exhausted

562
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: at the end of a really long day, but I'll

563
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: never get tired of it. Um. I do kind of

564
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: miss the exhaustive touring. I missed six and eight week

565
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: tours in a in a nostalgic way, we put it

566
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: that way. But for instance, Neil Cassal was someone that

567
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: when I met when we started the Hard Working Americans,

568
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: we were instant kindred spirits. Were both studio rats. You

569
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: put us in a control room and we're gonna just

570
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: it's like a two kids in a sandbox. We have

571
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: so much fun. And and we also he had such

572
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: great taste, you know, the people that he had worked with,

573
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: the training he got from people like Jim scott Um

574
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,959
Speaker 1: gave him a real great bullshit detector. So we'd have

575
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: so much fun. And after he left Hard Working American,

576
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: we stayed in touch and we always wanted to work together,

577
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: and we're always throwing our projects back and forth at

578
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: each other. And uh, I would tell him, Neil, I'm

579
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm burned out and I don't know if I have

580
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: anything left to contribute. Uh and he'd go, don't even

581
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: think that way, man, the world needs what you have

582
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: to give. Um. So, when he committed suicide and I

583
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: read his manifesto, uh, he was talking about a lot

584
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: of the same things, and I was just kind of pissed.

585
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: You know, there's those five stages of of death, grief,

586
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: five stages of grief and uh. So I was angry

587
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: with him. You know, it's like, how dare you give

588
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: me these pep talks and keep me going when I'm

589
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: having some self doubt or or just burned out and tired, um,

590
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: And how dare you do that? Uh? And and so

591
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: I think it's it's important to realize that these are

592
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: natural feelings. Uh. It's important for me to realize their

593
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: natural feelings, and that there are people that I can

594
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: talk to about it. I don't have to sit there

595
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: and ruminate and fester because my natural stasis is an

596
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: only child whose friends live too far away to like

597
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: just show up. So it's it's something I'm always learning,

598
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: and it was it was really easy to substitute things

599
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: on the road. Start feeling bad or down, you know,

600
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: there's always the next gig. It's always exciting. Uh, there

601
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: are certainly substances I've been down that road. Um and

602
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: in the end, it's really just me trying to be

603
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: honest with myself. But those words of Neil ring in

604
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: my head. It's like, you can't give up. The world

605
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: needs what you have to offer. And uh, okay, let's

606
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: just stop there for a second. You recently produced, very

607
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: recently just came out a multi album tribute to Neil,

608
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: So can you tell us how that came together? Also

609
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: what the expectations might be. I mean, even if someone

610
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: has no idea who Neil is, it's very hit to

611
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: use word palatable because it's not, you know, positive enough.

612
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: But even tribute albums for the best acts tend to

613
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: be unlistenable. And if it's an act you don't know

614
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: and you don't know the material, usually you know you

615
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: can't find your entry point where. That is not the

616
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: case with this project. So tell me about it. Thank you,

617
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: and and this is all I believe me. You're I've

618
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: read you for a long time, as you well know,

619
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: and and uh, we don't have the bandwidth to listen

620
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: to things we you know, you want me to listen

621
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: to your record, send me the best song on it.

622
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: Um So I understand that a forty one song tribute

623
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: record for a relatively unheard of artist is you know,

624
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 1: a daunting task. But basically the genesis of the project

625
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: was Neil sadly committed suicide in the fall of twenty nineteen,

626
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,479
Speaker 1: and wasn't too quickly after that that his longtime friend

627
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: and manager Gary Waldman called me up and, uh, you know,

628
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: what can we do? And I know that I had

629
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: had fourteen demos sitting on my desktop for a few

630
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: years of Neil, and I was just after him to

631
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: get in the studio and do them. And Gary's like, well,

632
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, Neil, he made twelve fourteen records in the

633
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: nineties and none of them ever got the attention they deserved.

634
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: So we began to put together this idea for a

635
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: sort of attribute record, and we thought we'd maybe make

636
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: a double record, two LPs, one c D, maybe eighteen songs.

637
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: Find some people that Neil worked with, some people who

638
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: respected Neil, and we began to cobble together an idea.

639
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: And my contribution to the idea where you say tribute

640
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: records are unlistenable. And I know that you're probably saying

641
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: that because you don't know half the artists on it,

642
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: or it's too long, or for whatever reason. But I

643
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: find tribute records to be unlistenable because they're recorded in

644
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: a very scattershot way. Uh. You know, this artist recorded

645
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: in a fancy studio in New York, and this other

646
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: artist recorded it in his bathroom on his iPhone, and

647
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: it's there's no continuity across the sonic landscape. Um, people

648
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: are gonna needle drop one song by the artists they know.

649
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: I was like, well, what if we get a bunch

650
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: of artists that most people don't know, and what if

651
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: we bring them all to Jim Scott's studio in Santa Clarita,

652
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: And what if we provide them bands made up of

653
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: people that played with Neil Um. So, for instance, I

654
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: called up Marcus King and said, how do you feel

655
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: about doing one of Neil's songs? And here's the plant,

656
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: Come to Jim Scott's and take your pick. We can

657
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: put basically Jackson Brown's band behind you was Neil's band

658
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: on his first record, Fadeaway Diamond Time, So that's Don Heffington,

659
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: Bob glob and Greg Lease. Or you can have Circles

660
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: around the Sun Neil's band, or you could have the

661
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: rhythm section from the Chris Robinson Brotherhood Neil's other band.

662
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 1: Or you could have the hard Working American's Rhythm Section

663
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: Neil's other other other band. And Marcus like, are you

664
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: saying that I could basically have any of those groups

665
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: or any combination of those guys, and I could pick

666
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,959
Speaker 1: any of these songs I want And I'm like, that's

667
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm saying, And he was like, bang, I'm in,

668
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: And that's basically what happened. The first artist we had

669
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: in was Billy Strings, and we put him with Circles

670
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: around the Sun and he did an amazing version of

671
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: All the Luck in the World, one of a very

672
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: I mean, boy, what a delivery. Billy is a true

673
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: national treasure. He really is. He's for real. But him

674
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: being the first artist and our little experiment working that

675
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: way was the green flag we needed to to be like,

676
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: we can do this um and we didn't have any

677
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: problem getting people. People actually started blowing us up. Can

678
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: I participate? I love Neil? Can I do this song? Uh?

679
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: And we we find you know, we're like, well, we're

680
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: at five LPs now I think I think this is

681
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: the headstone we need. Um. We probably could have kept

682
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: going if it wasn't for COVID. And it's an amazing

683
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: testament to the artists who are involved that once they

684
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: got over their fear of COVID, they found their sea

685
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: legs and they were able to remotely record and all

686
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: those tracks came back to Jim where he mixed them.

687
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,959
Speaker 1: So we have that sonic continuity. And what we hope

688
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: is that someone will drop the needle on the side

689
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: one here Aaron Lee Tashan and just you know, listen

690
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: to the whole thing. It's a daunting task, but really

691
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: what we're trying to accomplish is to further Neil's musical

692
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: legacy because it was underserved and it is fantastic when

693
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: you hear Shooter Jennings deliver a song like maybe California,

694
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: It's for real. Neil was a songwriting master. Um, there's

695
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: a lot of songwriting masters. Maybe he'll get his due now, um.

696
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: But the main thing is we are We've started the

697
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: Neil Kasal Music Foundation, and this record is sort of

698
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: an audio calling card, and what we want to do

699
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: with that foundation is put musical instruments into the hands

700
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: of children in high schools where Neil grew up in

701
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: New Jersey and New York, and we've been able to

702
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: do that. And then the second thing is to be

703
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: able to support resources for mental health. We did a

704
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: big concert at the Capitol Theater um. It was sort

705
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: of the genesis of a lot of the songs on

706
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: the record, and we were able to give a nice

707
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: sizable donation to Music Cares. UH back Line dot Care

708
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: started in the wake of Neil's suicide and they are

709
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: blowing up and they're one of the people we want

710
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: to work with provide support too. Because in Neil's letter,

711
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: he talks about feeling like he's existing on the outer

712
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: rim of the galaxy, looking in at all this exciting world,

713
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: whether he's traveling the world with Ryan Adams and the Cardinals,

714
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: or you know, having fun in the studio with the

715
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: hard working Americans or Chris Robinson brotherhood. He felt like

716
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: an outsider. It's that impostor syndrome maybe, or some hole

717
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: in him and we've all felt that way. You know,

718
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: a little while ago I was I was telling you

719
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: how I felt that way in my own way. And

720
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: there's a there's a real stigma to reaching out about

721
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: one's mental health, and we want to sort of dissolve that.

722
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: We want to destigmatize that and make it okay to

723
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: talk about the way you feel. It's hard, but that's

724
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: the point of the record, and thank you for asking. Okay,

725
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: let's go back, and it's really ties in and you're

726
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: talking about being on the road for six or eight weeks. Uh.

727
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: Musicians are notorious for getting hooked on drugs and odin

728
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: into a great degree. It's the pressure. So you go on.

729
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: You're a band who you work with, a band mainly

730
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: wedgebread piano that plays for a long time. So let's

731
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: just say, for the sake of discussion, you play for

732
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: three hours. There's twenty one other hours in the day.

733
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: Some of that you have to travel. So you finished

734
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: the gig, let's say eleven o'clock at night. You can't

735
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: fall asleep at midnight. You're lucky if you can get

736
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 1: any sleep by three or four in the morning. Then

737
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: the sun comes up. You gotta do sound check. You're

738
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: with the same fucking assholes you've been with for thirty years.

739
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: How do you cope? You know, everybody copes in their

740
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: own way, and partying, for lack of a better term,

741
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: is one of the ways. I mean, And I'm only

742
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: going to speak for myself. Uh. I was an uptight

743
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: asshole and in a lot of ways I still am,

744
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: but without the siblings to beat up on me in

745
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: a love way, I sort of projected what I needed

746
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: onto my bandmates. UM, and I don't know that anyone

747
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: can really shoulder that burden. You know, no one's gonna

748
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: take that on uh in a in a good way.

749
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: And so one of my ways was to just be

750
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: the guy that was not partying all the time. And

751
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: it made me really uptight and it it I'd get resentful,

752
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: um and feel like an outsider. And one of the

753
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: ways to sort of break that wall down would be to,

754
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, smoke some wheat. That's a that's a ritual,

755
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: passing the peace pipe around. Sometimes when things would get

756
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: dicey in the early days of widespread panic, we would

757
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: go to this little Mexican joint in Athens called Gus

758
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: Garcia's and it was mainly an excuse to the Mexican

759
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: food was a delivery system for things they served at

760
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: the bar, and uh, we'd have what we call tequila confessional,

761
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: and uh, we just get drunk and let it. I'll

762
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: hang out and we'd get through it later. Like when

763
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: you described the sort of endless daily rotation of being

764
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: not in a bus, you know, we weren't in a

765
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: bus until after the success of the first two Horde tours. Um,

766
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: it was a van and a truck, and before that

767
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: it was a car and a van, and before that

768
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: it was two cars. So yeah, it's a finish your gig,

769
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: go pack into a motel room with you know, if

770
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: you're lucky, there's two or three people in each room.

771
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: But then of course housekeepings banging on the door at

772
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: eight am, and then you got to get up and

773
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: drive another four hours to get to sound check on time.

774
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: Where you hurry up and wait for four hours, there's

775
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: a lot of time to find other things. And I

776
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: went down that road. I found all kinds of other things.

777
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: It's never much of a cocaine guy, but I sure

778
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: liked anything that would remove me from reality. Um, you know,

779
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: psychedelics were a little too intense, although I certainly had

780
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: my fun with those, But it was opiates that really,

781
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, took me away and and they're insidious, they'll

782
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: get their hooks in you, and they did get their

783
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: hooks in me. Be a little bit more specific which opiates? Well, heroin?

784
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: You know, look a little little bit slower intelligence, relatively

785
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: educated guy. How do you start taking heroin? And did

786
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: you get hooked on heroin? Well? You avoid it like

787
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: the plague, because of you know, it's a rattlesnake. We

788
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: all know what a rattlesnake does if you pick it up. Um,

789
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 1: so avoid it like the plague. But then you start

790
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: with but with a little yellow once delatted, little yellow

791
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: cough pills, crush them up, stored them, feel good for

792
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 1: a little while, get some sleep. Uh, And then later,

793
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 1: you know, you play someplace, I don't know, a port

794
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: town like Charleston, South Carolina, or Baltimore, and someone shows

795
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: up with some little whack packets, some white powder in it.

796
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: Do a little hoover. I remember the first time I

797
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: did it, I'm like, this is great. I don't feel

798
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: like I want to do anymore. I remember thinking that,

799
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 1: and then I got in my own way later with

800
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: a broken heart and found a connection and went pretty deep.

801
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: I went pretty deep for a couple of years. I

802
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: would never shoot it. I'd always snored it. Sometimes i'd

803
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: smoke it. But it it got really bad, you know,

804
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: and it was it was a point of concern. There

805
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: was an intervention or two and uh, finally, you know,

806
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: being the kind of guy that I am, a loner. Uh,

807
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: my moment of clarity was just like, I don't want

808
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: to be a slave to something else. That really piste

809
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: me off when I realized that had happened. So I

810
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: saught help, and I went out to Anaheim, California, and

811
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: and got help, and then of course I left rehab

812
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: against medical advice and went right out onto widespread panic

813
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 1: tour the summer at two thousand and the first thing

814
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: they did was, Hey, you may or may not remember this,

815
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: but the we have a documentary film crew that's gonna

816
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: be up our asses the whole whole tour. So enjoy

817
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: your sobriety with that going on. And did you stay sober?

818
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: And what do you do now? Yeah? What do you imbibe?

819
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: If anything? Now? If anything? Now, I like a good bourbon.

820
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 1: I live out here in wine Country. Sometimes a drink

821
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: glass or two of wine and it tastes like the

822
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: way the earth smells on a dewey morning. It's really nice.

823
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,959
Speaker 1: But alcohol was never my problem. Um, Like I said,

824
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: wanting to just be at peace and separate from all

825
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: the fault role and the feelings was my problem. UM.

826
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: I like micro dusting psilocybin. That really really helps. I'm

827
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm a very positive guy about that. Um. It's not

828
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: for everybody, but I've found that it helps with the depression,

829
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: and it helps with when life comes at you really hard,

830
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 1: like it sometimes does. Uh. I feel like I'm prepared

831
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: to deal with it. It's kind of like surfing. It's like, well,

832
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: this isn't going to go away, you know, like the

833
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: fact that my homeowners insurance company just canceled, like they're

834
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: canceling so many people out here non renewing because of

835
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: the fires. Um, you know, me like being piste off

836
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: about it like I usually would isn't gonna help me

837
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: get re insured. Um. So I find the micro dosing

838
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: helps with that. Okay, let's go. Micro Dosing is a

839
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: big thing in the news right now. Michael Chaban's wife

840
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: is really into which we are Uh a lot about it.

841
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: Are you doing this under the auspices of an m

842
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: D or you're talking about someone has mushrooms and you're

843
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: just taking a little bit. Uh, well, it's it's measured

844
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: doses of ground up mushrooms and gail caps. I mean,

845
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: I am out here in a ful dead territory and

846
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: there are psychonauts out here. Um, and you know, I

847
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm gambling. I stopped taking LSD and

848
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: I stopped the big trip, saying, way back in the

849
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: early eighties, I felt like the key had stripped that

850
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: lock and I had learned everything I needed to learn. Um.

851
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: So I stopped for a really long time. And of

852
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: course after I got sober, you know, no, no, no,

853
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go there. It was very uptight about it. Um.

854
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 1: But lately I feel good and I love where I live,

855
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: and I love what I'm doing, and uh, it's very helpful.

856
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: What about ayahuasca? Have you done Ayahuaska? Yeah, that's that's

857
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: a funny story. Back in the way early nineties, maybe

858
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: even the late eighties, we used to play this place

859
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: called the Bayou Club in Washington, d C. It was

860
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: you could see the watergate hotel right down the canal

861
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 1: was under one of the elevated highways, and this dude

862
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: showed up with a bag of what looked like great

863
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: nuts and he's like, it's ayahuasca root man, you guys

864
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: should split this up and play your gig tonight. And

865
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: we're like, you know, we're not that crazy. Uh So

866
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: we played the gig and then we went back to

867
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: the room and took a tiny little bit of it,

868
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: and uh we called it the root and one little

869
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: grape nut peace or two got the desired effect. I

870
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: remember thinking, dat motherfucker. He just wanted to like drop

871
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: a match into a pile of leaves and sit back

872
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: and watch what happened when his favorite band got on fire. Um,

873
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: but that bag lasted the whole tour. And then we

874
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: had a Halloween party in Athens, played a gig and

875
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: and everybody at the party did the ayahuasca and it

876
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: was pretty fun. But yeah, I've never done any shamanic

877
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: experiences like that. Okay, you said it said a few

878
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 1: minutes ago. You're an uptight asshole. Go a little deeper there,

879
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: how dare you? Um, you know, I think it's it's

880
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: just do you want me to go deeper in respective

881
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: how the how the hychedelics have helped me overcome this,

882
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: because people that I work with have said, you've changed

883
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: what happened, and and it really it took the uptight

884
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: asshole away because I guess that I would just I'd

885
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 1: get triggered and my guard would go up almost instantly

886
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: about anything. It took me a long time and a

887
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: lot of therapy to sort of realized that I was

888
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: the one that painted the target on my back all

889
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: those years that other people weren't just shooting arrows at me.

890
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: I put a target there with my behavior. In fact,

891
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 1: I want to see a shrink who helped me get

892
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: over a lot of this stuff. And the first appointment

893
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: was three hours, and I took up almost three hours

894
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: unspooling the tape of my life story about how I'd

895
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: been done wrong and was so alone and boo hoo hoo,

896
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: and everybody's against me. And she very calmly listened and

897
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,399
Speaker 1: nodded and took notes, and then at the very end

898
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: I finally ran out of steam and uh, I said,

899
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: I guess that's it, you know, And she just looks

900
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: and she goes and what part did you play in

901
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: all of this. Our time is up, I'll see you

902
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: next week, and off I went, going, Well, she just

903
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, And it took me a long time to

904
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: realize that I was creating all those problems. You know,

905
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: for me, life doesn't have any ill will. The ill

906
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: will is like how I respond to things in life,

907
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: and I've tried to apply that listen to everything I do. Now.

908
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: You know, this band that I'm producing, they're not against me,

909
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: you know, this is like I'm having a hard time

910
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: rising to the challenge that they've presented. Um So I

911
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: try to find a positive way to work through it.

912
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: But that's a big lesson overcoming the uptight asshole and

913
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 1: realizing that I'm perceived as an uptight asshole and that's

914
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: my reality because of the way I respond in any

915
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: given situation. Tough lesson to learn. How many people in

916
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: the music industry actually get to learn that lesson for real? Okay,

917
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: micro dosing, how often would you dose and what would

918
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: inspire to take a dose? Well, it's it's more like

919
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: a routine. I started with, like, point to Graham, you know,

920
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: barely perceptible and do it like five days, take two

921
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: days off and work my way up to it's you know,

922
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: it's generally like a third of a Graham when I

923
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: do it, and I don't even really feel it, I

924
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: know that I did it. I'm not seeing colors out

925
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: of the corners of my eyes. I'm not hearing voices whispering. Uh,

926
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: the walls aren't breathing. Well, let's just assume there's no

927
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: supply and you don't have it for a month. Are

928
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: you what what kind of internal situation you're going to

929
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: be in. I'm gonna be just fine, you know, because

930
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: I I've learned what I've learned now from it, and

931
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's necessary. I

932
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: think like it's surfing. You know, you go out to

933
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: surf and some days you just don't catch any waves.

934
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: Are you a surfer? No, I'm not, but I love

935
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: the metaphor. I just I just spent six months working

936
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: with a band with are all surfers from vents, So

937
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: you see surfing metaphors. That's you can thank Farmer Dave

938
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: and the Wizards of the West. But no, I'm not

939
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: a surfer. I was a skateboarder. Okay, let's go back.

940
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, one of the first things you ever told

941
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: me when we met backstage, if therapeum was that you

942
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: were adopted and you were meeting blood relatives, what went

943
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: on there and what degree do you think that's affected

944
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: your life? Wow, I mean got another hour. It was.

945
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 1: It's a big deal because, like I said, so much

946
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 1: of what formed me was being that lonely kid, no siblings.

947
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: And the first thing that happened around was we were

948
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: playing We've been on tour with Blues Traveler, and we

949
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: finished the tour at the Roseland in New York City

950
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: and we opened up for Blues Traveler and looking at

951
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: the room, the ballroom was filled with people in costumes,

952
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: but there was this older woman and too young to

953
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: be there boy standing in the crowd. They stuck out

954
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 1: to me like a sore thumb. And I even met

955
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: them on the street afterwards and signed like a you know,

956
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: a poster or something. And finished the tour and I

957
00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: got home and there was this big, thick letter amongst

958
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: my stack of mail, handwritten, and I kind of just knew.

959
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: I opened it up and this picture fell out and

960
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: it was that woman, that boy and a young female

961
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: and I just knew. I'm like, this is my birth mother. Uh.

962
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: And so I read the letter and that's exactly what happened,

963
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: and she detailed the way it worked, and I led

964
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: her into my life. She probably broke some laws reaching

965
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: out like that, and I had never wanted to find

966
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: out who they were. I was perfectly happy my adopted parents,

967
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: the schools is Bill and Frand did an amazing job

968
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: raising me. Uh. But now my interest was piqued, and

969
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: so I led her into my life and found out

970
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: I had a half sister and a half brother, and

971
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: that was amazing, and it was just it was thrilling. Uh.

972
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: But the one thing that was incomplete was where's the dad?

973
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: Where's the father? And uh, hamden hard And I was

974
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: finally like, after a year of asking, you know, she'd

975
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: be like, oh I lost touch with him and blah

976
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: blah blah, and uh. Finally I said, look, I can't

977
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: go halfway. If I'm gonna this is a sweeping life

978
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: change for me. You can't just come in and be

979
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: in my life and not helped me find my father.

980
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: So she finally produced an address and I wrote a letter,

981
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: and a couple of weeks later I got a letter

982
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: back and it was from my father, and of course

983
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: you've met him, you've seen him, and uh he's like,

984
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: imagine my surprise upon opening your letter on Father's Day

985
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: of all days. So it came to pass that Widespread

986
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: Panic was playing at the Ritz in l A. Was

987
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: it the Ritz? I think it's the Rits, right y

988
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: Roxy Roxy Roxy played the Roxy And that was my

989
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: time to meet my dad. And he showed up after

990
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: sound check and he had two little kids with him,

991
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: which was another half brother and half sister. But the

992
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: amazing thing about meeting my dad was finding out that

993
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: he'd been in the music business forever and ever and ever,

994
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: ever and ever and ever and uh So. The funny

995
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: thing was my birth mother was basically raised by her uncle,

996
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: Johnny Mercer in Savannah, Georgia, and who worked with my

997
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: girlfriends and we have we have a lot of connections

998
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: to the way the world doesn't draw smarter, smaller and smaller.

999
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: But my dad, you know, he grew up in Savannah, Georgia.

1000
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: He was born in England. His first memories of music

1001
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: are Spike Jones Orchestra being played during blitzes to like

1002
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: help alleviate the fact that bombs are dropping on your city.

1003
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: And then came to live with an uncle, and Johnny

1004
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: Mercer would pick him up and hold him up so

1005
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: he could look through the windows of the Baptist church

1006
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: while the choir sang, and he remembers the jukebox split

1007
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: into race sides and white sides, you know. And uh,

1008
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: he he got my mom pregnant right when he decided

1009
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: to moved to Detroit to start to produce records, and

1010
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: so all of the himning and hawing between them and

1011
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: between my birth mother and myself was simply about not

1012
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: selling him out. She wanted me to have a fair

1013
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: shot of meeting him, and they were afraid that if

1014
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: he said I can't raise a son, I just moved

1015
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: to Detroit. I'm sleeping on a sofa. Um that I

1016
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: would hold that against him, and I really don't, because

1017
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: giving me up for adoption was probably the best thing

1018
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: that happened to me at that time. And then later

1019
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: as a traveling musician, finding out that it's in your

1020
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: blood is a real vindication, you know. And I remember

1021
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: that show at the Roxy. I was playing like a

1022
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: mad man. I wanted to impress my old man with

1023
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 1: his musical taste, and he gives me. He goes you

1024
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,439
Speaker 1: play too many goddamn notes. But don't worry. Don't worry.

1025
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you something to take care of it.

1026
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: And so when I got back to Athens after we

1027
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: first met, he had sent me that James Jamison book

1028
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: um that had all the great people like McCartney and

1029
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: Sting talking about Jamison, and it had a cassette that

1030
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: you could plug in and if you move the speaker

1031
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: balance all the way to the right, you'd hear Jamison's

1032
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: baseline juxtaposed against the famous song. If you move the

1033
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,919
Speaker 1: speaker all the way to the left, you know you'd

1034
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: hear Stings baseline his interpretation. And that was just that

1035
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: was great. You know, my dad's got no filters and

1036
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: I love him for that. And he wound up running

1037
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: a studio and starting a publishing company. He published that

1038
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:15,919
Speaker 1: song the rose Um, and he loved playing music. I've

1039
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: stumbled in on him playing a song one time when

1040
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: I was visiting, and it was a song called Honky

1041
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: read by this artist named Urray McLoughlin that he had

1042
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: worked with publishing wise, and I said, what is that song?

1043
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: And he told me what it was, and I'm like,

1044
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: is it okay? If widespread panic records it and he's like,

1045
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: please do and so we recorded it and put it

1046
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: on our record called Street Dogs. Um. He's an invaluable

1047
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 1: resource and he's seen it all because he mixed live

1048
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: sound for Scott Richardson case opening for Led Zeppelin and

1049
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: The Grateful Dead, and you know, had a horn band

1050
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: called Rastus that was like competitive with Blood, Sweat and

1051
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: Tears and Chicago and the horn band Realm. And then

1052
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: he came out to l A in the early seventies

1053
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: and work with Zevon. Um, you know, mixed for Bobby Womack,

1054
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: all kinds of cool stuff. And what a beautiful gift,

1055
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: What a resource. Okay, I have to ask you this

1056
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: late date, Hey, when did you find out? How old

1057
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: were you when you found out you were adopted? And

1058
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: what did you think of that? And now with this

1059
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: long extended family, your people who raised you, the birth parents, etcetera,

1060
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: how does it all fit together? Um? I guess I

1061
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: was probably when I talked to my adopted mom. I'll

1062
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: call her friends schools, uh I. I I feel like

1063
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: I was probably three or four when I was told

1064
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: I was adopted. And she kind of refutes this, but

1065
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how great, her memory might be about it. Um,

1066
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: But I remember a book. You know, I was a

1067
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: really really early reader. Um, And like I said, books

1068
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: and records were my best friends growing up. But it

1069
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: was a book that was written for a very young

1070
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: child to explain adoption. And then I was loved and

1071
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and so I took it in stride.

1072
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: You know, in my memory I never harbored any fantasies that,

1073
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: oh you know, there was a princess somewhere that had

1074
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: to give me up and it was all wrong and

1075
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: if I could just find her, my life would be better.

1076
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: My life was fine. Um. I got everything I needed.

1077
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: I was provided for. I was allowed to experiment. I

1078
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: was given music lessons, bas lessons, piano lessons. I went

1079
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: to a private school from kindergarten until I went to

1080
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: college at the University of Georgia. I was provided for.

1081
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: I would never cared or really wanted to meet my

1082
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: real parents. But like I said, once my mom got

1083
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: in touch with me, then the the can of worms

1084
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: was open and I just had to go whole hog.

1085
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: And so suddenly I have four half siblings at the

1086
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: age of and I got this extended family when I

1087
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: got married to my wife, were like, how are we

1088
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: going to do this wedding thing? You know, it's I

1089
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: got adopted parents who are divorced and they can't sit together.

1090
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: And I got, you know, the Savannah side of my

1091
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: birth family and the Los Angeles side of my biological family,

1092
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 1: and and we wound up just having a private little affair.

1093
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: But when you ask what it's like, it's both wonderful

1094
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: and terrifying because so many things that I had always wanted, siblings,

1095
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: a family, a larger family um I suddenly had. But

1096
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: suddenly having something like that is it's intense, you know.

1097
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: It's I'd get calls for cousins I had never met. Hey,

1098
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: we want to come see you play it Red Rocks,

1099
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, I really want to come see you.

1100
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: Work at Morgan Stanley, you know, but I'm working. I

1101
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: I don't have no time to meet you, and and

1102
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: I don't have the bandwidth. And that was difficult. And

1103
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 1: I've talked to a lot of people who have had

1104
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: so many varying experiences when they find their birth parents

1105
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: from like literally the I found my birth mother and

1106
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: she's still married to my birth father. And I have

1107
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: two full siblings. The reason they gave me up was

1108
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: because they were in high school. I know a story

1109
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: like that pretty well? Is it that a do you have?

1110
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: What is that your story? No, it is not my story.

1111
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: But friends, and now everybody gets along and the people

1112
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: are accomplished. You know, at this point, you know, it's

1113
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: all inherently strange because it all happened when this person

1114
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,959
Speaker 1: was an adult, that she ultimately found her birth mother.

1115
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 1: But that it's just you resident. Obviously everyone's got a

1116
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: different story. Yeah, you know, I mean, but it was

1117
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: it was a long balancing act, you know. And I've

1118
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: gotten it down to where I'm comfortable. My my biological

1119
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: mother sadly passed away. Um, but I'm very close with

1120
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: her husband, who famously said the night that she confessed

1121
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: that there was a child that he did not know about,

1122
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: and he said he got any more and more secrets

1123
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: you want to share with me? Uh? And and you know,

1124
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: my my my biological father, like I said, we're just

1125
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: we're kind of very the same. I believe that. You know,

1126
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: he was living in Van Nuys at that time, and

1127
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: I went back to his house after that show at

1128
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 1: the roxy I was talking about and I hadn't met

1129
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: his wife, and we were in his sort of man

1130
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: cave stereo room and just laughing our asses off about something,

1131
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: and she had come in and the first thing she

1132
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: said was I couldn't tell whose laugh was Who's um.

1133
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: We have a very different speaking voice. He's got a

1134
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: real wonderful baritone voice. He should he should do narration

1135
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: and loop work or something. But uh, yeah, we're both cynical,

1136
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: We're both crusty. Uh. I hope that I can be

1137
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: as crusty and cynical and full of love and joy

1138
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: as he is when i'm his age. And you know,

1139
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: he he I met you with Chip Hooper. But I

1140
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: do believe that it was my father that said you

1141
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: gotta read this email blast. This was like, you know,

1142
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: Windows era, When did you start the letter? I started

1143
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,839
Speaker 1: in eighty six. He didn't become an email bliss blast

1144
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: till the year two thousand. But okay, yeah, I mean,

1145
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: so this has been a long time and and he's

1146
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: been around. I think you've probably met him a time

1147
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: or two backstage. But incredible, I mean, just it. Like

1148
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 1: I said, it's a balancing act. We all know, especially

1149
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: since we're into the thick of the holiday spirit as

1150
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: it were right now out how difficult that can be.

1151
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: And you know, just like sort of the things we

1152
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: were talking about with widespread panic and with the Beatles,

1153
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:10,919
Speaker 1: this sort of sibling thing and the dynamic that exists

1154
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: across decades. Um, we're in the thick of it, and

1155
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: so all that stuff gets multiplied when I let my

1156
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: biological mother and father and their children and their extend

1157
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: their extended families. You know, my father had the same experience,

1158
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: my mother had the same experience. They were both sort

1159
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: of raised by different people. You know, my father's father

1160
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 1: was pushed out of the family during World War Two.

1161
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: He wasn't good enough for the daughter, so he was

1162
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: sent to like France or Germany to fight. And so

1163
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: my dad was raised by his mother in a foreign country.

1164
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: And there are British relatives and Irish relatives that are

1165
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: close enough to be someone you might want to see

1166
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: during the holidays, but it's just sometimes it's all too much.

1167
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: I love meeting him. But like I said, my stasis

1168
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: is solitude. That's kind of you know, when I go

1169
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: back to the egg to recharge, I'm by myself, and

1170
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,839
Speaker 1: you know, my wife puts up with it. She's wonderful

1171
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: in that respect. She gets it. You know, if I

1172
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: come home from tours, she knows I need a few

1173
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: days to sort of put myself back together. And uh,

1174
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: that's when I'm really happy that there's a seven and

1175
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: a half hour documentary that I can watch. Okay, So

1176
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: when and how did you meet your wife? Did you

1177
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: partake of the goodies on the road before meeting her?

1178
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 1: What keeps you together? And how about the issue of children? Well,

1179
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: I met my wife in l A. My half sister, Robin,

1180
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: the daughter of my birth father, was dating my wife's

1181
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: little brother, and she said, you gotta meet Andrea. And

1182
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: so she brought her to a show at the Wiltern

1183
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: and we went to Musso and Frank and had lunch

1184
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: the next day and I was just I remember sitting

1185
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: down beside her. She was the first one there, and

1186
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: she's like, you might want to sit on the other

1187
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: side because I'm left handed. We might bump elbows. And

1188
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 1: I said, ah, I like it right here. If if

1189
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: if your elbow gets in the way, I'll rip your

1190
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 1: arm off and beat you with it. And she laughed.

1191
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 1: And so we forged a relationship that's based on comedy.

1192
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: And humor. Uh, like we'd run our favorite Mr Show routines,

1193
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 1: if you remember Mr Show with Love and David just

1194
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: groundbreaking and wonderful, wonderful work. And uh we'd laugh and

1195
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: laugh and laugh, and we courted in a very strange

1196
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: way because I met her. Like I said, it was

1197
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: set up. My little sister set it up. And I

1198
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: was keeping a blog. Do you remember my Space? I

1199
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: had been under the behest of one of the office

1200
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: people at Widespread Panic headquarters, like you're a pretty good writer.

1201
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 1: Why don't you keep a blog during this on our

1202
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: tour and we'll put it up on our MySpace account.

1203
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: And uh so I did, And that's what I was doing.

1204
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: And I wrote about the experiences we had in l

1205
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: A and and I said and head lunched with my

1206
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: sister's adorable friend. And we had moved on up the

1207
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: West coast, you know, on tour, and I kept calling

1208
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: my sister, going did Andrea say anything? What she say

1209
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: about me? What she say about me? And I was

1210
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: getting crickets and I was like, oh, this is not good.

1211
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: I thought I was I thought I thought we hit

1212
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 1: it off, you know. And and finally I get an

1213
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 1: email from the office guy at Brown Cat Widespread Panic headquarters.

1214
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: He's like, I wouldn't normally share these types of things

1215
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: with you, but I think you might be interested in

1216
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: this one. And I opened it up and it was

1217
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 1: from Andrea and the first line was, oh, so you

1218
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: think I'm adorable A So we began correspondence. I mean,

1219
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:57,919
Speaker 1: we're talking courtship here, wooing. And so it was emails

1220
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: back and forth, and by time the band got down

1221
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: to Down from the Hook, down through the Rockies down

1222
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: to Texas, we were having phone calls. And then I

1223
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: got home to Georgia and the phone calls were longer

1224
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 1: and longer across time zones. And then I'm like, well,

1225
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: you know, we got these, uh three nights for doing

1226
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: a radio city music hall, wink wink, why don't you

1227
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: come out and uh come see some Panic shows. And

1228
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 1: it was also Jimmy Herring's first shows with Widespread Panic,

1229
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: and uh, we had rehearsed our asses off, so we

1230
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:33,679
Speaker 1: weren't rehearsing all day before the shows. I had days.

1231
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 1: So she came out and she'd never really been to

1232
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 1: New York before, and we just we had a great time.

1233
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,599
Speaker 1: We stayed, we walked, to the shows, get the van back,

1234
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: eat some dinner, hang out, have a great time. And

1235
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: we never really did anything New York is and uh,

1236
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: it was time to take her back to the airport

1237
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 1: and I had a day off. So it's like we

1238
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 1: didn't do a carriage where I we didn't do anything romantic.

1239
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: We didn't go to Barney's or the Russian Tea Room

1240
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 1: or you know anything like that. I'm like, I got

1241
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: it getting a yellow New York taxicab and I tell

1242
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 1: the guy man, you gotta burn to LaGuardia because she

1243
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 1: is late. She's gonna miss her flight. So the guy

1244
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: put on the classic New York City cab ride, you know,

1245
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: hawking at pedestrians, gunning his engine. It was thrilling, it

1246
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 1: was great, and and I was it was the end

1247
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 1: of the long cell for me because that was it.

1248
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 1: And you talk about kids, and neither of us really

1249
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 1: wanted them. You know. It's like, I'm a child of divorce,

1250
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 1: she's a strange from her parents. We just want to

1251
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: have fun together and so that's what we do. Um.

1252
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: And I am not evading your question about the fruit

1253
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: of the road as it were. Um, you know, I

1254
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: might be an uptight asshole who's working on it. But

1255
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,719
Speaker 1: I'm also a silly old romantic and I so I'm

1256
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: you know, my wife says, you and your dad and

1257
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: your your your dad's kids, you all love love. And

1258
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know that we're in love with

1259
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,480
Speaker 1: the concept of love. I think that we're just we're romantics.

1260
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: We like that feeling better than the other feeling of lust.

1261
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I refute the feeling of lust, and

1262
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I have not acted upon the feeling

1263
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: of lust, but I you know, I want a partner.

1264
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,799
Speaker 1: I want someone that I can run through silly comedy

1265
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,639
Speaker 1: sketches with. I want someone that's gonna like have joke

1266
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: wedding vows to a certain degree. Um. So, yes, that

1267
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: low hanging fruit was available, and it was weird to me,

1268
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,720
Speaker 1: and uh, And I think things worked out the way

1269
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: they did. I had great relationships that evolved and it

1270
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: was time to move on. And I would certainly have

1271
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: had fucked up great relationships and not fucked up relationships.

1272
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: But we've been married for thirteen years now and we've

1273
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: been through a lot, and it's worth it, you know,

1274
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 1: it's worth working through it. Um, and it's I can't

1275
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 1: say that it's easy. You were married once, weren't you?

1276
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: Of course I was. We can tell my story off,

1277
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 1: not that I wouldn't, but it will take up a

1278
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 1: lot of time. Why do you live in northern California?

1279
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: I fell in love with classic rock, you know. I

1280
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 1: I did not get to be in San Francisco when

1281
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,719
Speaker 1: it was cooking in the late sixties. But I loved

1282
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 1: all those bands. I saw The Grateful Dead a lot

1283
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: when I was in high school and college early eighties. Um.

1284
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: I was blown away with what they were doing, and

1285
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: I was blown away with the spirit. But as close

1286
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: as I got to that was you know, when I

1287
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: could go see a Woodstock at the Midnight Movie, which

1288
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 1: is way too long of a movie for a midnight movie,

1289
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: by the way. You know it was on it was

1290
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:05,160
Speaker 1: on cable, and I got the Triple Record, and these

1291
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:09,120
Speaker 1: were the artists doing what they did on film. You know,

1292
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: MTV was different. I liked some of the music. I

1293
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: love the new wave, I love punk. I got it, um.

1294
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 1: But you know when I decided what I wanted to

1295
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: do was when I saw Jimmy Page working in his pajamas.

1296
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: It's like that guy goes to work in black silk pajamas,

1297
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: and that is a cool job. And then when I

1298
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: saw John entwhistle, like, that's the pace player that I

1299
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: want to I like that guy's style. So when panic first,

1300
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:40,759
Speaker 1: I actually ball backtrack. I came to see a Grateful

1301
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 1: Dead concert New Year's Eve in Oakland. I went with

1302
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 1: a girlfriend of mine who had met the people that

1303
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: the grandson of or the son of the folks that

1304
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: live in seventeen Ashbury, the Grateful Dead House. We got

1305
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: to stay there because of that connection. She had gone

1306
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,639
Speaker 1: done to some or class at Berkeley, met this guy

1307
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 1: c J. And they graciously allowed us to stay at

1308
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: the house. UM. And I fell in love with San Francisco.

1309
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,640
Speaker 1: And this was the San Francisco of Hate Street was

1310
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: still oh man Um. And then when widespread Panics started

1311
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 1: playing out here, you know, we didn't just start at

1312
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: the war field. We uh we played I think it

1313
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: was called the full Moon Saloon or the Moon Saloon

1314
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: or something like that. It was on Hate Street, UM

1315
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: and other little places, and it just I always wanted

1316
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: to be here. And then for a brief time in

1317
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 1: like seven, I dated a girl and we lived in

1318
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: the Sunset part of San Francisco. And then when I

1319
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 1: met Audrey, she was going to school in San Luis Obispo,

1320
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm ready to move, you know,

1321
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:57,679
Speaker 1: are you willing to to come up to the Bay area?

1322
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 1: So we just started looking for properties. We found a

1323
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 1: real estate agent. We're looking in North Marin and and

1324
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: we kept drifting up towards Sonoma. Uh Sebastopol is the

1325
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: town where I live. And one day the real estate

1326
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: agent goes, why are you so interested in this area

1327
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,040
Speaker 1: West Sonoma County? It's got a real yeehaw factor, don't

1328
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 1: you think? And I said, what do you mean by

1329
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 1: yeehaw factor? And he said, oh, well, I just mean

1330
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, you see pickup trucks on cinder blocks and

1331
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,799
Speaker 1: people's yards and satellite dishes and stuff. And I'm like, motherfucker.

1332
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: Alend in Georgia for twenty five years. I feel right

1333
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 1: at home here. And so, you know, she's sort of

1334
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 1: a city mouse. She grew up in Woodland Hills and

1335
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 1: then you know, went to Santa Cruz and then wound

1336
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: up finishing and slow and working there. Um, so it

1337
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,639
Speaker 1: took her a little getting used to because it's way

1338
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: colder and rainier up here, but uh, man, we love it.

1339
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 1: I love it up here. I feel right at home.

1340
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: I've I've got a great life, and uh so, yeah,

1341
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 1: not San Francisco kind of glad I don't live in there.

1342
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I grew up in Richmond, Virginia, a

1343
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,639
Speaker 1: medium sized city on the East coast. I lived in Athens,

1344
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: Georgia for twenty five years. That's a big college town

1345
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 1: on the east coast. And now I live between a

1346
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: town of seven thousand and a town of two hundred,

1347
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: and if I ever moved from here, it's probably not

1348
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: going to even have a post office where I wind up. Okay,

1349
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: you mentioned Athens. For those of us who grew up

1350
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: in the Northeast, are real first exposure to Athens was R. E. M.

1351
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: And we hear about the whole scene, etcetera. You know, certainly,

1352
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: growing up in Northeast, like myself, you really don't know

1353
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: that much about the South, although I did, uh live

1354
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 1: with a woman romantically from Tallahassee, which is really more

1355
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 1: Georgia than Florida. But what was going on in Athens?

1356
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: Explain it to me, man, Athens is uh the best description,

1357
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: and I can't say that I coined this, but I

1358
01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:02,640
Speaker 1: don't know who did Mayberry on acid. Uh. You know,

1359
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 1: I went to college there. I love the B fifty twos.

1360
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,599
Speaker 1: That was the first Athens band that I heard. And um,

1361
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: but I went to college there because A I could

1362
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 1: get early acceptance so I could be like done with

1363
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 1: that whole college thing. And remember I went to a

1364
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: prep school called Collegiate that was a thirteen year prep

1365
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 1: school in Richmond. So by Thanksgiving of my senior year,

1366
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: I had been accepted at the University of Georgia. I

1367
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 1: knew that they had a music scene, but I think

1368
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:34,960
Speaker 1: what was more important to me at the time was

1369
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 1: Playboy magazine had named them the top party college in

1370
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 1: the country, and I had gone down there. My best

1371
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,759
Speaker 1: friend's dad was like an alumni rep, so he dragged

1372
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 1: us down there to see herschel Walker play football and

1373
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 1: uh a visitation weekend. And there's a place called Legion

1374
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: Field where on campus they'd have the big outdoor concerts

1375
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 1: and I saw the psychedelic furs and I was like, Wow,

1376
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: this is really cool. And um. So there I was

1377
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: Fall of eighty three, moving into a dorm and things

1378
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: were cooking. Uh. The guy across the hall was listening

1379
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: to w U O G the college station, and the

1380
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: band Love Tractor was on there talking about their new record,

1381
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that is some alien sounding cool music.

1382
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Of course, chronic Town had just dropped the famous R E.

1383
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 1: M EP bands were cooking. There weren't that many liquor

1384
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 1: licenses downtown. There was a couple of places to play,

1385
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: place called Tyrone's you couldn't get to unless you had

1386
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,600
Speaker 1: a car, and then there was the infamous forty Wi

1387
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: Club and r M was cooking. In fact, Athens is

1388
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: so hip that r M hadn't even put out their

1389
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: second record yet, and the hipsters and Athens were writing

1390
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 1: them off. Is too popular to be cool. That's how

1391
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 1: cool Athens was. And it was a miasma of styles.

1392
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: There was the thrist door hipsters, people that like literally

1393
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: sowed their own clothing. There's the weirdo punk rockers, the

1394
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: straight edge guys, and uh, what a great place, What

1395
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 1: a great place. Everybody was in a band. Everybody was

1396
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: in three bands, and it was time to have a job.

1397
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: You got a job at a place like the euro

1398
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 1: rap Um doing schwarma or the taco stand rolling burritos.

1399
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:28,600
Speaker 1: And your boss knew that you were an artist or

1400
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: you were in a band, and so yeah, take two weeks,

1401
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: go off and lose your ass playing playing your music.

1402
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: That your job will be waiting when you come back,

1403
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,000
Speaker 1: you know. And I was lucky enough to stumble into

1404
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 1: working the door at a place called the Uptown Lounge

1405
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:48,480
Speaker 1: um where I saw Black Flag, I saw Camper van Beethoven,

1406
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 1: I saw you know, any number of bands that would

1407
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:56,800
Speaker 1: go on to become stalwarts of the alternative, the Lollapaloosa scene,

1408
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 1: Chili Pepper's Meat Puppets, you name it, and man that

1409
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 1: talk about something where you don't realize you're in the

1410
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 1: midst of something that's cooking, but then you do and

1411
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:17,040
Speaker 1: then it explodes. That's kind of what happened. And so

1412
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: Athens to me was this strange, little Mayberian acid kind

1413
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 1: of town. And and it always will be. It always is,

1414
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 1: no matter how homogenized they try to make it. Uh,

1415
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: there's an independent coffee shop that exists right next door

1416
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 1: to a Starbucks. You know, there's enough support because you've

1417
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 1: got the kids from the college that will go to Starbucks,

1418
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 1: and then you've got the townies and the the weirdo

1419
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 1: kids from the college that will go to Espresso Royal

1420
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 1: or whatever it's called um and I really I miss it,

1421
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that we go back there to have

1422
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 1: business meetings, and we go back there to rehearse and

1423
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 1: so forth. It's it's a very resetting kind of town.

1424
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 1: A lot people don't ever leave, and it's it's very

1425
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 1: easy to see why. Here's a little interesting story about

1426
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 1: Athens in the two thousand and four election. You know,

1427
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 1: George Bush was going for his second term and uh

1428
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:17,120
Speaker 1: and he won. We all know that. We all know

1429
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 1: what happens the Athens Banner Herald that morning. You know

1430
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:24,560
Speaker 1: that Georgia has its counties. It's a lot of counties.

1431
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: And on the Athens Banner Herald that morning it said

1432
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 1: Democrats sweep Clark County. And there's a picture of the

1433
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 1: state of Georgia and it is read entirely all these

1434
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: a hundred and some counties and this one little blue

1435
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: dot Athens Clark County. Democrats sweep Clark County. That to

1436
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 1: me sums up the attitude in Athens, Georgia. Okay, let's

1437
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: jump to today. You work on a lot of records,

1438
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: but needless just say, in the thirty odd years you've

1439
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:00,800
Speaker 1: been in this game, the landscape is complete. He changed.

1440
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: You know. It used to be there were very few

1441
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 1: bands cost money to make records was distribution was a

1442
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 1: big bottleneck. You wanted to have widespread acceptance. What's it

1443
01:26:12,479 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 1: like making a record today? Why even make a record?

1444
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: You know? That is a question that I asked a

1445
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 1: young band that I'm working with. And I agree with

1446
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 1: a lot of what you write, A lot of it

1447
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,719
Speaker 1: um and sometimes I disagree, but this one I really

1448
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 1: agree on. Um. You make an LP, it's a vanity project,

1449
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: you know, or it's just because of what you do.

1450
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 1: Widespread Panic has always made LPs. That's just what we do,

1451
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:42,759
Speaker 1: and we've done it independently. There have been budgets from labels.

1452
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 1: We were one of the first bands to go with

1453
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 1: Sanctuary Records in the late nineties, and so we had

1454
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: a fifty fifty deal because we made all of our

1455
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: money selling tickets and so sure, we'll pay for fifty

1456
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 1: of the recording budget and we'll up what we get

1457
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,599
Speaker 1: on the end, and that's rate. But for a young

1458
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: band in this landscape where all they're gonna make money

1459
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:08,240
Speaker 1: off of is selling tickets and merchandise. Do you really

1460
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 1: have in your coffers enough money to record ten or

1461
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: twelve songs? And then if you're gonna make money off

1462
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:18,519
Speaker 1: of you're not selling c d s. You're not gonna

1463
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 1: get paid. Unless you really go viral on TikTok or

1464
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 1: a stream, You're not gonna get paid that way. So

1465
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,880
Speaker 1: how are you gonna afford to press and make vinyl?

1466
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 1: Because that is one way that if you can afford

1467
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: to do it, you can sell it at your shows.

1468
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 1: You can make some money on it. Why do you

1469
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: want to do that? So I asked them, why wouldn't

1470
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't you rather just like take your two best songs

1471
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 1: you're most confident in and record them really really well,

1472
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: make them, use these tools of the studio, and and

1473
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 1: let's just leverage what you got into an amazing recording.

1474
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 1: You know, press a seven inch you can sell that

1475
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: people will love. They'll they'll buy LPs and seven inches

1476
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 1: even if they don't have a turntable, because you can

1477
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 1: sign it and they can put it on their mantle.

1478
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: Other people who listen to it. That's great. But and

1479
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: I encounter it and a lot of a lot of

1480
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,719
Speaker 1: the younger bands get it. They get that it's gone

1481
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 1: back to it's gone back to the kind of world

1482
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 1: that we grew up in. You know. I'd go to

1483
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,760
Speaker 1: UH Standard drug store and they had a wall of

1484
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: the top forty singles there, and my dad would give

1485
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,639
Speaker 1: me a buck and I'd buy whichever one I wanted.

1486
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 1: Deep Purple createds Clear Order Revival, and then we got

1487
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 1: into the LP world and it was a good world

1488
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: for a little while. But we had gatekeepers. Um, we

1489
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:46,759
Speaker 1: had radio stations, some local, then the radio stations went national.

1490
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 1: Heard the same twenty eight songs every freaking day until

1491
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:52,720
Speaker 1: you were tired of it, and then you heard it

1492
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: some more. But I don't understand why a young band

1493
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 1: would want to record any thing more than a song

1494
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: or two in this day and age right now, unless

1495
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: you're so incredibly confident and have such amazing material that

1496
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: it's going to go deep. But is it going to

1497
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 1: go deep, Bob, No, it's not. But going a little

1498
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:17,640
Speaker 1: deeper on this topic, how good a studio do you

1499
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 1: have and how much does it cost someone to make

1500
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:23,320
Speaker 1: a record to come into work with you? Well, I

1501
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: mean I'm in a really great place. Um, we're at

1502
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 1: a studio right here. I'm talking to you from my

1503
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: studio and my engineer Jason. It's we call it space Camp.

1504
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: It used to belong to Kataro, the New Age artist.

1505
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 1: He built it by hand and we took over after

1506
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 1: he left. Um. We got a thirty six channel student

1507
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,600
Speaker 1: console in here. All kinds of great sense and instruments

1508
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 1: and engineer that knows how to work them and record them. UM.

1509
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 1: So you know, we work with people we want to

1510
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:57,599
Speaker 1: work with. Here. If you want me to produce your

1511
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: record and you have a studio and mind, I'll come

1512
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about what it costs. I really when

1513
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:05,920
Speaker 1: I say I'm in a great position, it means that

1514
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: I can pick and shoes. This isn't what I want

1515
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: to do for a living. It's what I love. I

1516
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 1: love the studio. I love working with artists. It's my

1517
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,800
Speaker 1: happy place. Making the Neil Kassal record with Jim Scott,

1518
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: the eighteen songs we were able to do down and

1519
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:23,680
Speaker 1: stay on Korita at Pliers, his home studio. Some of

1520
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 1: the happiest times in my life. I'm working with all

1521
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: kinds of different artists. I'm meeting and working with heroes.

1522
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 1: You know. I mean to sit around and talk base

1523
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:36,719
Speaker 1: with Bobby glob Come on to get to play base

1524
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 1: with Don Heffington. God rest his soul, give me a break,

1525
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:44,360
Speaker 1: you know. To bring someone like Tim Hiecker and have

1526
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Jim Scott, you know, recording and have a handpicked band

1527
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: supporting Tim is wonderful. It's the best thing in the world.

1528
01:30:56,320 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 1: I don't need to get paid. Doesn't mean I'm not,

1529
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't mean I'm gonna work for free.

1530
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,200
Speaker 1: But I don't get I don't want to get paid.

1531
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: We can work something out on the back end, if

1532
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 1: there ever is a back end, and I don't think

1533
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: there's ever going to be a back ever again, really,

1534
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: you know. But Jason and I we're here and we

1535
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:14,800
Speaker 1: work on stuff that we love. How far is it

1536
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: from your house? Three miles? Oh far? Three miles? And

1537
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: where did Qataro go? Why did he sell it? Uh? Well,

1538
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,639
Speaker 1: he had a divorce and he went back to Japan,

1539
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 1: to his homeland, and then he got snagged there by

1540
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 1: COVID when they're sort of they had pretty severe protocol.

1541
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 1: He kind of got trapped there, couldn't leave. Um. But

1542
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 1: here we are at space camp, and I'm talking to

1543
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: you from space camp and you can see this old

1544
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 1: art synthesizer right behind me. And yeah, I actually worked

1545
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 1: on that my college. Yeah, um, we we have we

1546
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: love old off. Jason is a circuit bender, built pedals,

1547
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:07,759
Speaker 1: worked able to enlive with Steve Kimok and also TechEd

1548
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 1: his guitars and his amps. So you know, here we

1549
01:32:11,439 --> 01:32:15,280
Speaker 1: are making music. I'm ready to make another record for

1550
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 1: my own twisted devices and uh, you know, no commercial potential,

1551
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 1: no hope at all. Just have some fun and make

1552
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 1: some music for me. It's been like twenty years since

1553
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 1: I did that. And uh, maybe it's a soundtrack to

1554
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:31,600
Speaker 1: a movie that hadn't been made yet. I don't know.

1555
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:41,719
Speaker 1: I don't really care. I'm about being happy, you know. Okay,

1556
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 1: let's talk finances. You're in a band with multiple members.

1557
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 1: You know, whatever publishing is is, there's not that much

1558
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: and it's split, etcetera. How are you doing financially? Uh,

1559
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm really good. You know. Widespread Panic has been a

1560
01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: band that can sell tickets for thirty years. Um, there's

1561
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,839
Speaker 1: been eras where we're in the top ten concert grossing

1562
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 1: attractions in Billboard. Now we're to a point where we

1563
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:13,400
Speaker 1: play maybe thirty five shows a year, and we go

1564
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 1: and we do three three night runs, four night runs

1565
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:19,120
Speaker 1: and cities we love, and we get to play our

1566
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:21,599
Speaker 1: catalog and we play our music, and our fans come

1567
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: in and they have a great time, and everybody's happy.

1568
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 1: Everybody's happier than they've been in a long time because

1569
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 1: we worked our asses off, Bob. You know, we we

1570
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 1: There were years where we did two d fifty shows

1571
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 1: and then there was a long stretch where we did

1572
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 1: eighty a hundred shows. And that was the best part

1573
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 1: of our career was being in you know, three tour buses,

1574
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,840
Speaker 1: three semi trucks, having a modular system where we'd go

1575
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 1: play a shed somewhere that we could easily downsize to

1576
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 1: play an arena or downsize to play a theater. And

1577
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,800
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I love these theaters. We placed

1578
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 1: places like the Beacon, the Orpheum, the Riverside, and we'll

1579
01:33:59,760 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 1: walk key. We just got done with a run at

1580
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 1: the Chicago Theater. It's it's fantastic um, you know. I

1581
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 1: remember we played two nights at Madison Square Garden for

1582
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:15,599
Speaker 1: Halloween in the year maybe two thousand and four or five,

1583
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember. But to walk out on that stage

1584
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 1: and literally be on the X where Jimmy Page was

1585
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,640
Speaker 1: standing approximately when I saw that movie when I was

1586
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,800
Speaker 1: twelve years old on its first run in the theater,

1587
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:34,680
Speaker 1: where I had my revelation about tech guy works in

1588
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: his pajamas. I want that job. That was one of

1589
01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 1: those moments, you know. I think in the end, our

1590
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:42,920
Speaker 1: lives are are just sort of a string of those moments,

1591
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: don't you think, And that was a big one for me. Um.

1592
01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 1: But those big arenas, when you can pull them in

1593
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,720
Speaker 1: and make them small and unite the audience and get

1594
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:58,040
Speaker 1: into that zone, that is super special. That's what for

1595
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 1: lack of a better label, jam bands f you know,

1596
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:06,760
Speaker 1: they can take a room that large and shrink it

1597
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: into a nightclub and they might have an amazing light

1598
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 1: show and the best sound system ever. Uh but that's

1599
01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:18,920
Speaker 1: what we do, and that's amazing. And after thirty five

1600
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,240
Speaker 1: years to be able to go to a beautiful place

1601
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 1: like the Chicago Theater or to a place like the

1602
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 1: Riverside in Milwaukee where they just treat you so good

1603
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:29,400
Speaker 1: and it sounds so good and the people are right

1604
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 1: up there in your face. Some of those faces I've

1605
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 1: been seeing for over twenty five years. Um, it's amazing.

1606
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 1: What a gift. And I think we just we did

1607
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 1: it on the boards because we just toured and toured

1608
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 1: and toured. You know, you asked me what I talked

1609
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,599
Speaker 1: about with young bands in the studio. There's a lot

1610
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 1: of experience that I like to share with them about

1611
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:56,960
Speaker 1: how do you important it is? You know, I'm fond

1612
01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:00,200
Speaker 1: of saying, this is a business of relationships and you're

1613
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: gonna encounter the same people decade after decade. They might

1614
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 1: all have different jobs than they did when you met him,

1615
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 1: but we've all got each other's back in this whacked

1616
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: out business if we maintain those relationships. And so for

1617
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:17,040
Speaker 1: a young band to go out and you know you're

1618
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 1: gonna play those places where you're like, who the funk

1619
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:23,679
Speaker 1: booked us in this pizza joint? There's one guy there

1620
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: that you changed his life that night. You make a

1621
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 1: friend out of that guy, you know, give him a

1622
01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: give him a CD or a single, or get him

1623
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:36,200
Speaker 1: on your mailing list somehow. And you do that long

1624
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:39,719
Speaker 1: enough and the next thing you know, you've got a following.

1625
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, what is it? Arlo Guthrie says,

1626
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 1: is you get three and you've got yourself a conspiracy

1627
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 1: right right? To what degree did Phil Walden and Capricorn help?

1628
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 1: And we're any big Phil Walden lessons or stories. Well,

1629
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: the one thing we always wondered was how come we

1630
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: never saw Phil Waldon and Names Brown in the same room,

1631
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: because they had the same kind of charisma to us.

1632
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: But Phil was a great mentor. I mean his son,

1633
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,400
Speaker 1: Phil Walldon Jr. Was our first manager. He saw us

1634
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 1: playing a frat party that he was a member of

1635
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,880
Speaker 1: the frat. It was Phi Delta Theta. I think at

1636
01:37:16,880 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 1: you g A and uh, He's like, you know, my

1637
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 1: daddy's in the music business, and uh, maybe he'd like

1638
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,720
Speaker 1: to hear you guys, And you know he was. He

1639
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:30,559
Speaker 1: was reassembling Capricorn at the time. And Phil Jr. Managed us,

1640
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:33,360
Speaker 1: And I remember we played a place called Elston Square,

1641
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:39,760
Speaker 1: was a rock club in Nashville, and we invited Phil

1642
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:43,000
Speaker 1: Waldon to come see us play, and no one was

1643
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:49,559
Speaker 1: there except for Phil Walden and a couple of the

1644
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,840
Speaker 1: guys from R. E. M there in Nashville trying to

1645
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:54,559
Speaker 1: make their third record, and some of the guys from

1646
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: Jason and the Scorchers, And we played our set as

1647
01:37:58,040 --> 01:37:59,760
Speaker 1: best we could. And we sat down with Phil and

1648
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 1: we and uh, hey, you know, what did you think?

1649
01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:04,799
Speaker 1: And he just looked at he said it's a big country, boys,

1650
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 1: which was like, oh, but he was right. You know.

1651
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 1: What he was telling us was get out there and work,

1652
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 1: and it is a big country. There's a lot of

1653
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 1: opportunity to learn how to be a band seeing this

1654
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:21,760
Speaker 1: big country and gathering fans. And then when we made

1655
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 1: Space Wrangler and it went Indie Gold, it was on

1656
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:28,679
Speaker 1: Landslide Records, and it sold a surprising number of copies

1657
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: and cemented us as a viable touring force. That's when

1658
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: they came after us. Um, Phil signed us and put

1659
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 1: us with Johnny Sandlin and just let us do our thing.

1660
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:47,719
Speaker 1: He let us do our thing. There were great lessons,

1661
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 1: but most of them really didn't apply to us. One

1662
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:55,400
Speaker 1: of the best ones was what did he say? Wait,

1663
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: we're asking about the labels involvement in the Carter campaign,

1664
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 1: and his comment was, we put a peanut farmer in

1665
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: the White House Rick company out of business. Okay. What's

1666
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 1: the status of the jam bam world today? It is

1667
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 1: continually evolving. Um. You know, I I've always said that

1668
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:21,559
Speaker 1: I hate labels, I think they're more convenient for for

1669
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,639
Speaker 1: people who have a product to sell if they can

1670
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 1: put a label on a cubby hole in a shelf

1671
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 1: and put your product on it. Um. So, jam band

1672
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:35,559
Speaker 1: was never one that I thought applied. It's it's the

1673
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 1: state of the jam band world. Is there are the

1674
01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:43,400
Speaker 1: the original jam bands are? They're gone now for the

1675
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:48,599
Speaker 1: most part. The Almond Brothers gone dead and company still

1676
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of doing it, in fact doing it really well

1677
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: in some respects bringing in the young people and getting

1678
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:58,680
Speaker 1: him onto it. But there's a whole scene. There's the

1679
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,840
Speaker 1: jam grass scene. I don't know if Billy Strings is

1680
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 1: part of that or not, but bands like String Cheese

1681
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 1: would certainly qualifies. They started out of the jam grass.

1682
01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:12,760
Speaker 1: There's the sort of live tronica jam bands you wrote

1683
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:16,679
Speaker 1: about Sound Tribes Sector nine. They were actually on Landslide

1684
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 1: Records too. They were a former Athens band. They're doing

1685
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 1: amazing things. There's a new band called Goose that I'm

1686
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:27,080
Speaker 1: hearing a lot about that. Uh, you know, they can play,

1687
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: they're writing songs. Um to me. You know, it's why

1688
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: is it led Zeppelin a jam band? Didn't they do

1689
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,360
Speaker 1: improvisational jams? Well? Well, let's do the jam band. Let's

1690
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 1: forget the term. Let's just say there are certain number

1691
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:45,280
Speaker 1: of bands that a R bands because most everybody else

1692
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:48,560
Speaker 1: is a solo act and they're doing in their bedroom,

1693
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: B or c depending uh is. Guitar is not the

1694
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 1: dominant sound in the dominant recording world. So what do

1695
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:02,360
Speaker 1: we know? If you look at the the road revenues,

1696
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 1: the biggest numbers are pulled by the classic rock acts.

1697
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 1: Some of them only have a few years left before

1698
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:11,439
Speaker 1: they're going to be too old to play. Okay. Then

1699
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,719
Speaker 1: we have the Spotify world, the Top forty radio world,

1700
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:19,040
Speaker 1: which is hip hop and pop, and it very rarely

1701
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 1: intersects with guitar based band music. Ed Sharon kind of

1702
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:26,400
Speaker 1: bridges that gap, but almost no one else does. So

1703
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 1: as we march forward, what's the evolution? What do we know?

1704
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:33,240
Speaker 1: In hip hop? It's really about who your friends are.

1705
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 1: Beyond your record, you'll be on mine. And we have

1706
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: now seen, unfortunately with Astro World and a lot of

1707
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 1: other things, that they can actually sell tickets, although a

1708
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 1: lot of people cannot. Of the big Top forty song.

1709
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:49,120
Speaker 1: So Adele comes in at this point. It's a force

1710
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 1: of nature. But before it became this force of nature.

1711
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,960
Speaker 1: She's doing something completely different and being more successful than

1712
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 1: anybody else. It's not that different if you plug her

1713
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:02,360
Speaker 1: back into the seventies. For today, it's very different. So

1714
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 1: on some level, there's a band world, a guitar world

1715
01:42:06,439 --> 01:42:11,200
Speaker 1: that is very healthy, live, but it doesn't dominate in

1716
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:15,120
Speaker 1: any other way. What's going to happen? Is it plays

1717
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:21,680
Speaker 1: out in the future. You know, that's a really good question. Um.

1718
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:23,920
Speaker 1: I try not to concern myself with it. And maybe

1719
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 1: it's just because my own band and my experience in

1720
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: widespread panic. Uh, you know, I don't I think we're

1721
01:42:31,200 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 1: We're never going to dominate charts. I just don't think

1722
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: it works that way. And I'm not sure what the

1723
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:40,560
Speaker 1: value of There's so many charts, what do they even mean? Um?

1724
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:43,040
Speaker 1: I think it's about but but let's talk mind share.

1725
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 1: Mind share, that's what I was going to get to

1726
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:47,760
Speaker 1: the people. I think it's the people and the music

1727
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 1: they want to hear. Um, why are the Beatles still popular? Sure,

1728
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:55,200
Speaker 1: there's a segment of younger people that are like, oh god,

1729
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:58,800
Speaker 1: that's what my grandfather listened to. Can't stand it. But

1730
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 1: there are other younger people. I was talking to a

1731
01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 1: twelve year old young lady the other day that's like,

1732
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:07,000
Speaker 1: I like the Beatles, but she also likes the fruit Bats.

1733
01:43:09,160 --> 01:43:11,840
Speaker 1: And I think that there is always going to be

1734
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:15,040
Speaker 1: a segment of society that listens to music for the

1735
01:43:15,120 --> 01:43:18,680
Speaker 1: joy it gives them. Um, And no matter what it is,

1736
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 1: for some people that's guitar based songwriting music, the predominant

1737
01:43:23,400 --> 01:43:28,360
Speaker 1: thing is obviously hip hop. Adele is amazing. But what

1738
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:32,080
Speaker 1: was it you said the other day, the demographic that

1739
01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: buys an adele vinyl? You know, Um, I don't know

1740
01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: where it's headed. It is so fractioned out now, um,

1741
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:46,759
Speaker 1: and so heavily curated. Uh. I feel like I missed

1742
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 1: the days of the gatekeepers, and we're sort of into

1743
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:52,160
Speaker 1: this world of tyranny of choice. So it's hard to

1744
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:55,559
Speaker 1: find something to listen to without a mentor. I mean,

1745
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 1: I know how important that guy at Gary's Records and

1746
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:01,240
Speaker 1: Tapes in Richmond, Virginia was to me when he said,

1747
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: are you sure you want to buy that status quo record?

1748
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:07,600
Speaker 1: Because why don't you try on this Ramon's record And

1749
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: if you don't like it, you can bring it back

1750
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:11,559
Speaker 1: and I'll give you back your money. That guy was

1751
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,160
Speaker 1: super important to me. I don't know if I ever

1752
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:18,680
Speaker 1: would have discovered the Ramones at that early of an age. Uh,

1753
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:25,400
Speaker 1: there's a cultural phenomenon of of hip hop. Uh. Adele

1754
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:30,640
Speaker 1: is absolutely amazing, amazing voice, amazing career. Taylor Swift, you know,

1755
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: it's music. I like all kinds of stuff. You know,

1756
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:39,240
Speaker 1: whatever it is, I'm personally seeking, I'm going to try

1757
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 1: to find any way I can. It's hard these days.

1758
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 1: There's a lot to sort through. UM, and I don't

1759
01:44:45,840 --> 01:44:52,400
Speaker 1: even really trust the curated playlists. But you know, here's

1760
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 1: the funny thing. In the Beatles documentary, we see them

1761
01:44:55,840 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: passing around that Fender based six guitar, and I'm watching

1762
01:45:00,439 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 1: Sean Lennon play and like, oh, that's that's great. I

1763
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,599
Speaker 1: always kind of want in one of those. And we've

1764
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 1: been graciously working with Fender, who's donated instruments to the

1765
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:12,240
Speaker 1: Neil Kasal Music Foundation. And I write the guys and

1766
01:45:12,280 --> 01:45:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, you guys making those Base six is anymore?

1767
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: You know? And and the response the first thing they

1768
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:21,600
Speaker 1: said was after that documentary, we damn well ought to

1769
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:24,639
Speaker 1: be you know, people are like, but Squire still makes them.

1770
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 1: The custom shop will make them and the guys like

1771
01:45:27,400 --> 01:45:29,679
Speaker 1: I would surely hope that would put it into production.

1772
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:34,599
Speaker 1: Apparently this documentary is having any effect on people. Um

1773
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:37,240
Speaker 1: and you know, you're very five redd time and time again,

1774
01:45:37,240 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: and I agree. You know, the Beatles came to America

1775
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:42,559
Speaker 1: and everybody suddenly bought an electric guitar, and it began.

1776
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 1: This thing that we grew up in began. And I

1777
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:49,120
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, like I said, it was so

1778
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:54,000
Speaker 1: important to me watching Sir Paul strumming that Hofner and

1779
01:45:54,479 --> 01:45:58,080
Speaker 1: the seeds of get Back are coming out, like that's

1780
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:01,840
Speaker 1: that's a guitar. You know that base six is a guitar.

1781
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:04,600
Speaker 1: You can tune it, play like a baritone guitar, or

1782
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,679
Speaker 1: you can pick up an acoustic guitar. That's where people

1783
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:11,519
Speaker 1: start piano acoustic guitar. I don't know what the future holds,

1784
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:14,719
Speaker 1: but and I don't know there will ever be something

1785
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:19,280
Speaker 1: as important as of Rolling Stones or Beatles or Bob Dylan.

1786
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: I think there will be lots of those, and they'll

1787
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 1: be different kinds of those. They will appeal to certain

1788
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:29,640
Speaker 1: strata that like a certain type of music. You know.

1789
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:33,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, Bob, I just I know that there's

1790
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:38,720
Speaker 1: always music that I find that makes me happy. Um,

1791
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 1: and who knows what's going to explode. Okay, let's go

1792
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 1: back to something you said earlier, which is a string

1793
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 1: of peak experiences. There's this woman, Deborah Tannon. I think

1794
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:51,440
Speaker 1: she's still at the University of Maryland. She's an academic,

1795
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:54,560
Speaker 1: so she's not a pop psychologist, and she wrote a

1796
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:57,960
Speaker 1: legendary book forty years ago called you Don't You just

1797
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:01,840
Speaker 1: don't understand differences in conversation between men and women. And

1798
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:04,679
Speaker 1: there are a lot of definitive examples that will lay

1799
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,479
Speaker 1: this out, but one thing she said is always stuck

1800
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:12,600
Speaker 1: with me with women, It's about all these experiences, etcetera.

1801
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:17,920
Speaker 1: Where men want a constant upward movement, they want to

1802
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:21,920
Speaker 1: get to a destination. What do we know really? Since

1803
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:24,920
Speaker 1: the explosion of social media, Spotify, et Center in the

1804
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:28,360
Speaker 1: last ten years, the top has been blown apart. The

1805
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 1: top used to be very narrow. So I'm sure you

1806
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:36,280
Speaker 1: had goals. Wow, I'm I play this venue. Okay, I'm

1807
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:39,000
Speaker 1: on late night TV. I got reviewed in this paper.

1808
01:47:39,040 --> 01:47:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm getting closer to the mental target. Then they the

1809
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 1: target doesn't exist anymore. That's right, So you know, how

1810
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:50,840
Speaker 1: does this affect. You kind of cooks back into an

1811
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: earlier question in terms of what you're doing to what

1812
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:55,559
Speaker 1: degree can you go along? So I'm just doing what

1813
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm doing, having fun or what degree in the back

1814
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 1: of your mind, do you have a goal, want to

1815
01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:03,080
Speaker 1: have a goal, and want to feel that you're progressing

1816
01:48:03,160 --> 01:48:06,760
Speaker 1: to something. Well, you know, that's a question that's really

1817
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 1: difficult to answer, and the only way that I can

1818
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:12,240
Speaker 1: think to answer it, honestly is to frame it in

1819
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:17,280
Speaker 1: age and how. And I absolutely agree with with miss

1820
01:48:17,280 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 1: tannin Uh. There was a goal and it was sort

1821
01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 1: of elusive, but it was it came in steps. You know.

1822
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:27,800
Speaker 1: For me, my first goal was I sure would be

1823
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:29,680
Speaker 1: happy if I could pay my share of the long

1824
01:48:29,720 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 1: distance phone bill. Hey kids, remember the long distance bill?

1825
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 1: And then it was I should be happy I could

1826
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:38,800
Speaker 1: not have to have these roommates and have my own place. Wow,

1827
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 1: I sure would like to buy a car. I sure

1828
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:43,439
Speaker 1: would like to buy a new car. Every it was

1829
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: more like life type goals. The band was so entrenched

1830
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 1: in doing what we did that, you know, we didn't

1831
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 1: really get a rest until after Mike Hawser died in

1832
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,439
Speaker 1: the year two thousand and two. We had already, uh

1833
01:48:57,479 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, we'd achieved so many goals, but we didn't

1834
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:03,200
Speaker 1: ever stopped to look back. And we celebrated our twenty

1835
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 1: five anniversary. Uh she's ten years ago or whatever it was.

1836
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:12,320
Speaker 1: And that was really the first chance that I sort

1837
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:15,639
Speaker 1: of had to cast back. Um, and I'm being honest

1838
01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:18,599
Speaker 1: here doing interviews for the you know, it's like that

1839
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 1: was the angle. So you guys twenty five years old

1840
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:25,360
Speaker 1: now and I'll be like, gosh, that's bone jarring. That's

1841
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:27,479
Speaker 1: that says Hunter Thompson would call that's a meat hook

1842
01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:32,839
Speaker 1: reality right there. And uh so then I allowed myself

1843
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 1: the chance to look back. Um. You know, John Bell,

1844
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:41,799
Speaker 1: our our singer, would often say, I'm too busy working

1845
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:44,840
Speaker 1: on the Pheasant and the future of widespread panic to

1846
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:50,120
Speaker 1: concern myself with the past. And I think that that's

1847
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:54,800
Speaker 1: that's apropos for me, but to place that the My

1848
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:59,880
Speaker 1: goals changed as I age and and literally that desperation

1849
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:06,600
Speaker 1: to chase something some elusive uh you know, watermark watershed

1850
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 1: moment of Wow, we sold out Madison Square Garden, you know,

1851
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:14,599
Speaker 1: or we just played you know, our sixtie sold out

1852
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:19,960
Speaker 1: show at Red Rocks. You know, it's it's it's it's

1853
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 1: kind of it's weird. You know, who who has a

1854
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 1: career like this, who gets to still go out and play.

1855
01:50:26,280 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm about to turn fifty seven years old. Um, who

1856
01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:33,559
Speaker 1: gets to go out and do something different every night?

1857
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:39,240
Speaker 1: I do. I'm in widespread panic, and it's amazing to me. Uh.

1858
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: We've worked long and hard, so yeah, with the top

1859
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:46,400
Speaker 1: being blown off, as you say, and my goal really

1860
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: is just to keep gathering experiences and learning. UM. I

1861
01:50:51,520 --> 01:50:54,040
Speaker 1: love talking about it, you know, I love it helps

1862
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 1: me put it in perspective when you ask me a

1863
01:50:56,320 --> 01:51:00,160
Speaker 1: good question. I'm sitting here thinking, Wow, do I need

1864
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,360
Speaker 1: a goal? Maybe I should think about it. What can

1865
01:51:02,400 --> 01:51:04,719
Speaker 1: I do? Like I said, I'd love to win a Grammy.

1866
01:51:04,760 --> 01:51:08,200
Speaker 1: It would make my mom happy, you know. It's I

1867
01:51:08,200 --> 01:51:10,479
Speaker 1: remember going to see a World Series game at Bill

1868
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:13,000
Speaker 1: Barry's house, the drummer for R. E. M. And in

1869
01:51:13,120 --> 01:51:15,320
Speaker 1: his man cave, and uh, he had a little half

1870
01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:17,919
Speaker 1: bath and I went in there to use the restroom

1871
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:22,680
Speaker 1: and lining the floorboard of the entire bathroom around the

1872
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 1: toilet where all those little MTV Spaceman statuettes. And then

1873
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:29,200
Speaker 1: he had three Grammy sitting on the reservoir or the toilet,

1874
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:31,920
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure what that meant, if there is

1875
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:34,200
Speaker 1: anything other or maybe it's like I've got so many

1876
01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 1: of these darn things, this is the only place to

1877
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:39,880
Speaker 1: store them. But you know, I'd be happy. My mom

1878
01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 1: would be happy. She could brag to her Bridge friends

1879
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:45,559
Speaker 1: about her son, and that makes me happy. I like

1880
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:48,639
Speaker 1: making other people happy. I think if I can help

1881
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:52,759
Speaker 1: people put their music into the world and it provides

1882
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,559
Speaker 1: even just a modicum of the joy that music has

1883
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,240
Speaker 1: given me in my life, then I'm doing something good.

1884
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 1: You know. I don't mean to sound as if I'm

1885
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 1: giving this stuff away, you know, or but it really,

1886
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:13,880
Speaker 1: at my age, with everything I've done, it feels better

1887
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 1: than anything. And on that note, I could literally talk

1888
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:22,559
Speaker 1: to you all day because you're a thinker and you

1889
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:26,160
Speaker 1: stimulate me, and that's what I'm looking for in conversation.

1890
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:29,040
Speaker 1: Will have to do this again sometime. There's so many

1891
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:32,479
Speaker 1: other things we didn't even touch on, but Dave, thanks

1892
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:35,920
Speaker 1: so much for appearing here today. Until next time. This

1893
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:37,080
Speaker 1: is Bob left Sex