1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:13,280 Henry: Warning, in this episode, you'll be hearing about my dad 2 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:19,680 Henry: talk about astrology, baseball, K-pop, heavy metal, bananas, Lilo and Stitch, 3 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,040 Henry: and also growing up as an immigrant, which I think is awesome. 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Henry: If you're not into it, that's okay, but I hope 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,760 Henry: you stick around. 6 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:53,519 Mangesh: This is so ridiculous. My numerologist told me that I should be 7 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Mangesh: eating bananas every day and particularly on Wednesdays, and today 8 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,800 Mangesh: is Wednesday. So I've got these tiny, tiny bananas that 9 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,840 Mangesh: are maybe half the height of my palm. I'm gonna 10 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,360 Mangesh: tear a couple off and eat them and also press 11 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,199 Mangesh: them into my palm. 12 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,240 Mangesh: Back when I began this show, Dr. Kumar, the astrologer 13 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,880 Mangesh: I met in Queens, told me I should consider buying 14 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:22,600 Mangesh: an emerald. 15 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,679 Dr. Kumar: It would be a good idea if you wore an emerald. 16 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,120 Dr. Kumar: Emeraldd is the gemstone from the planet Mercury, to have 17 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,600 Dr. Kumar: better communication, better connection. 18 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,840 Mangesh: Basically, it's a way of nudging the universe, telling it 19 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,920 Mangesh: to boost the wearer's communication skills. The truth is I 20 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,040 Mangesh: could use the help. I mean, I stutter and I mumble, 21 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,840 Mangesh: and I'm introverted, and here I am making a podcast. 22 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,600 Mangesh: So I'm very tempted by a quick fix. 23 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,360 Mangesh: So let's see if this makes me more of a 24 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,640 Mangesh: leader and better at communicating, I think. 25 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,960 Mangesh: Gems are a big part of Indian astrology. They're used 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Mangesh: as duct tape—quick solutions to strengthen the deficiencies in your birth chart. 27 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,359 Mangesh: For example, my Mercury is weak, so an emerald can 28 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,640 Mangesh: help compensate. The problem is that many astrologers are known 29 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,320 Mangesh: for having a tie in with a jeweler and taking 30 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,480 Mangesh: a commission for referrals, which makes me suspicious. But also, 31 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,720 Mangesh: I live in New York City and I'm kind of 32 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,680 Mangesh: a chief skate and emerald sounds pricey. That's why I 33 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,960 Mangesh: was thrilled when a different seer, Dr. Divya Malhotra, who has 34 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Mangesh: a PhD in numerology, told me to forget about jewelers 35 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,880 Mangesh: and just buy some bananas instead. 36 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,000 Dr. Divya: Which is odd because I'm born and brought up in 37 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,240 Dr. Divya: a Delhi jeweller family and married to a Mumbai based 38 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,120 Dr. Divya: jeweller family. 39 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,800 Mangesh: Her house is filled with too many jewelers! And although 40 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,746 Mangesh: she's been surrounded by sparkly things all her life- 41 00:02:58,746 --> 00:03:02,760 Dr. Divya: I don't recommend my clients to wear any semi precious stones. 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,560 Mangesh: To her, the magic isn't in the cut of the stone, 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,239 Mangesh: but in its color. 44 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,560 Dr. Divya: I heal them with the remedies, and my remedies are 45 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:13,240 Dr. Divya: very simple. 46 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,280 Mangesh: And what are these simple remedies? 47 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,120 Dr. Divya: You can eat banana, apple. 48 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:18,552 Mangesh: Really? 49 00:03:18,552 --> 00:03:20,520 Dr. Divya: Yes, that's called the color therapy. 50 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,040 Mangesh: She believes that fruit can do what gems do for 51 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,480 Mangesh: a fraction of the price. So, after this intense and 52 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,640 Mangesh: complicated numerical analysis of my birth times and dates, she 53 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,600 Mangesh: hands me a thick packet of information that describes my 54 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:42,400 Mangesh: personality fairly accurately, along with my many flaws, and then 55 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,000 Mangesh: she recommends the colors that will improve my life. 56 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,760 Dr. Divya: Green and sun colors. You can use sun colors in 57 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,800 Dr. Divya: your life. So if you will touch colors to your 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,280 Dr. Divya: skin on every Wednesday, that will also help you out. 59 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,960 Mangesh: Dr. Divya has no shortage of clients, but she has a 60 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,720 Mangesh: gripe with the way people seek help from her. She 61 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Mangesh: tells me that people only come when they're desperate for solutions. 62 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,280 Dr. Divya: Basically, you know what, I want to give awareness that- 63 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,920 Dr. Divya: you go to any occult science healer, don't go when 64 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,320 Dr. Divya: you are in pain, whether it's me or anybody else. 65 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,040 Dr. Divya: Work in the present to secure your future. Don't come 66 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,120 Dr. Divya: to me when your present is the worst to secure your future. 67 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,400 Mangesh: Her notion is: Why can't people treat a numerologist like 68 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,200 Mangesh: a doctor? The same way you do wellness checks to 69 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,720 Mangesh: stay healthy, keep your life in balance. 70 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,960 Dr. Divya: I can't give you the result overnight. 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,480 Mangesh: I don't go to the gym anymore, so maybe a 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,719 Mangesh: regular banana holding on Sundays and Wednesdays is how I'll 73 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,120 Mangesh: stay on top of things. Dr. Divya tells me it 74 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,919 Mangesh: will be three or four months of this by the 75 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,360 Mangesh: time I see results, which I guess isn't any weirder 76 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,359 Mangesh: than believing in the power of a shiny stone. But 77 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,880 Mangesh: I do feel silly. Because it is silly. 78 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,279 Mangesh: This is so ridiculous. 79 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,159 Mangesh: I moved from holding the banana chest level with two 80 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,760 Mangesh: hands to raising the banana up to the sky like 81 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:18,479 Mangesh: it's Simba from the Lion King, and then I eat it. 82 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,080 Mangesh: I don't normally eat breakfast, so. Happy about that. 83 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,320 Mangesh: Dr. Divya's right about astrology and the moments we turn 84 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,960 Mangesh: to it. Right now, Michelle Fan—a prospective law school student 85 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:41,000 Mangesh: and an unabashed BTS superfan—is in crisis, because her favorite band 86 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,799 Mangesh: is in crisis, just when she needs them most. 87 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,360 Michelle: All of a sudden, the members are crying, and then 88 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:48,840 Michelle: I'm crying, and I don't know what's going on. 89 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,080 BTS RM: [Speaking in Korean, choked up] 90 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,400 Michelle: I'm texting my friends. I felt like my life was 91 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,800 Michelle: flashing before my eyes because here are these people who 92 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,240 Michelle: have always been so happy, and now they're being vulnerable 93 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,280 Michelle: with us, and they're crying. They're talking about it like 94 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,279 Michelle: it's a breakup, even though they're saying it's not a breakup. 95 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:19,560 Mangesh: From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Mangesh Hattikudur. Welcome to 96 00:06:19,600 --> 00:07:15,360 Mangesh: Skyline Drive. Chapter one, t-shirts and boy bands. 97 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,600 Mangesh: Michelle, why don't you say your full name for me 98 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,120 Mangesh: and just give me a little introduction about yourself. 99 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Michelle: Yeah. Sure, my name is Michelle Fan. I am currently 100 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,160 Michelle: working full time in human rights, but right now, with 101 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,600 Michelle: my free time, I've been devoting it all to traveling 102 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,400 Michelle: and keeping up with BTS's activities. 103 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,960 Mangesh: From the moment I start chatting with Michelle, I like her. 104 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,520 Mangesh: She has this bubbly energy and this incredible sweetness that 105 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,280 Mangesh: I'm not expecting. Maybe because I know a little bit 106 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,480 Mangesh: about her circumstance? One of her friends, my colleague Vahini, 107 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,640 Mangesh: is worried about her. Michelle is super smart. Like college 108 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,160 Mangesh: honor society, aced her LSATs smart. But it's been a year since she 109 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,920 Mangesh: graduated and she hasn't filled out her law school applications yet. 110 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,400 Mangesh: She's been pushing it off for some reason, and her 111 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,400 Mangesh: pals are wondering: Can astrology help? Because maybe it can 112 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Mangesh: give her the nudge she needs. But as we talk, 113 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,720 Mangesh: it's not clear to me how much Michelle wants a 114 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,200 Mangesh: reading for herself so much as she wants it for BTS, 115 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:28,800 Mangesh: the massive Korean pop group. 116 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,120 Michelle: I would like to know about their future families, and 117 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,240 Michelle: how many kids they're going to have, and how long 118 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,959 Michelle: they're going to keep doing this for. And what kind 119 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,560 Michelle: of music they'll do when they're like gray and old, 120 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,560 Michelle: and if they'll still perform, or like get together and 121 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,520 Michelle: do things like that. 122 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,360 Mangesh: Michelle's a BTS superfan, or what's known as ARMY. 123 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,280 Michelle: You can't be a casual ARMY. Like there's just something 124 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,679 Michelle: that is so captivating about BTS. Once you're in it, 125 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,840 Michelle: you're really in it, man. Like most of my closest 126 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,040 Michelle: ARMY friends are people that I already knew, and we 127 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,199 Michelle: connected even more over this thing that we weren't really 128 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Michelle: embarrassed to like, but people wanted to make us embarrassed 129 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:09,040 Michelle: to like. 130 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,920 Mangesh: I feel guilty here because I'm technically anti-boy band. In 131 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,360 Mangesh: third grade, my friend Zoe and I would rip on 132 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,640 Mangesh: New Kids on the Block, and we were constantly evangelizing 133 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,760 Mangesh: how lame we thought they were. In high school, I 134 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,480 Mangesh: ribbed my little cousin because every time a Backstreet Boys 135 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,960 Mangesh: video came on, she screamed like it was Beatlemania, and 136 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,280 Mangesh: it made no sense to me. But it wasn't just 137 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,280 Mangesh: the music that offended me: something about how manufactured these 138 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,959 Mangesh: groups always are. Like you've got to have the bad boy, 139 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,160 Mangesh: and the sweetheart, and the shy one, and the slightly 140 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,440 Mangesh: older brother who seems a little too old to be 141 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,600 Mangesh: in the band. The groups are always perfectly curated for 142 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:58,080 Mangesh: mass consumption. Versus you know, outsiders who are trying to 143 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,960 Mangesh: express something real and authentic with their music and aren't 144 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,559 Mangesh: part of some assembly line. Anyway. 145 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Mangesh: What does being a member of this fandom mean to you? 146 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,000 Michelle: What does it mean to me? Um, oh man, it 147 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,720 Michelle: means a lot. It's really nice to feel like you're 148 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,640 Michelle: part of something that is genuinely just like full of 149 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,200 Michelle: kindness and love and family. I think that they do 150 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,079 Michelle: a really good job of making ARMY feel like they're 151 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:27,880 Michelle: part of their family. 152 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Mangesh: Seeing BTS live was a transcendent experience for her. 153 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,040 Michelle: You just look around you. All you see are these 154 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,560 Michelle: light sticks that are waving around, and it really feels 155 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,600 Michelle: like you're in a sea of stars. My friend and I, 156 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,640 Michelle: we sat and bawled after the concert was over because we 157 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,440 Michelle: were like, we're never going to have that magical experience again. 158 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,280 Michelle: I imagine that this is like what Disney adults feel 159 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,720 Michelle: like every summer. I wish I could have that, but 160 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,200 Michelle: I have to wait for the off chance that BTS 161 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,800 Michelle: is going to announce a performance in America for me 162 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,600 Michelle: to experience that level of, like, etherealness. 163 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,120 Mangesh: So Michelle spends her extra hours thinking about BTS and 164 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,960 Mangesh: interacting with fans, and luckily for ARMY, BTS has no 165 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:21,280 Mangesh: shortage of content. But as Michelle talks, it becomes clear 166 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,280 Mangesh: it isn't just about the music for her or the 167 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,240 Mangesh: community—which is powerful. It's also about seeing a Korean band 168 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Mangesh: making it to the top of the American charts without 169 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,520 Mangesh: having to compromise their identity. 170 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,520 Michelle: I do feel like an additional connection to BTS because 171 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,839 Michelle: it's been so nice to see Asian artists really fully 172 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,120 Michelle: embrace their Asianness. 173 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,480 Mangesh: Michelle came to the States from China as a toddler. 174 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,880 Mangesh: Her dad brought the family over as he finished his PhD. 175 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,000 Mangesh: But even though they became upwardly mobile, living in a 176 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Mangesh: nice suburban community, life at home at times was turbulent. 177 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:08,920 Michelle: My dad was pretty abusive. He's really not a great guy. 178 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,640 Michelle: He eventually left, which, good riddance. Um, my mom's here 179 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,800 Michelle: at home, and my dad's in China, and my brother 180 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,880 Michelle: is here with us too. So now it's just us three, 181 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:22,600 Michelle: and I guess my cat. 182 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,319 Mangesh: Michelle doesn't dwell on abuse or her absent dad. It's 183 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,520 Mangesh: just a speed bump she happens to acknowledge as we 184 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,760 Mangesh: talk about her upbringing. But being there for her mom 185 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,959 Mangesh: and her brother? That's a big part of her identity, 186 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,720 Mangesh: and that caring doesn't stop with her family. Michelle stands 187 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Mangesh: up for anyone who is wounded. 188 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,679 Michelle: Since middle school, I wanted to go into human rights work. 189 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,880 Michelle: I've always just cared a lot about what's fair and 190 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,520 Michelle: what's not fair. I'm sure part of it also comes 191 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,160 Michelle: from coming here as an immigrant and figuring out how 192 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,840 Michelle: to fit in. Why do I have to chop off 193 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,360 Michelle: all of these parts of myself to fit into this 194 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,360 Michelle: mold so that you can still not see me as 195 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,240 Michelle: an equal? Like, that doesn't seem right. 196 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,120 Mangesh: That tension of identity. I know what she means. 197 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,559 Michelle: I didn't want my parents to meet people. I didn't 198 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,040 Michelle: want people to meet my grandparents. I was just very 199 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,720 Michelle: ashamed of everything related to my family, and that didn't 200 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,280 Michelle: really change until high school. 201 00:13:23,040 --> 00:14:01,480 Mangesh: My parents were never an embarrassment to me, but sometimes my house could be. Like, do you really want to invite people just to explain the myths and religious iconography on your walls? Do you bring a tiffin with delicious rice and dal and pickles to the school cafeteria? Or do you beg your parents for a white bread pb&j and a juicebox because it makes life easier? There’s a constant question of how you bridge the person you are inside your home versus the person you have to be outside it; and how you explain and justify these two identities. 202 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:31,000 Michelle: It really helped that one summer we went back to China. And that was when I was really aware that I was like, oh, I didn't grow up in this country, but I feel so at home here. Why is that? Hearing my regional dialect spoken, having the food, seeing everybody dry their beans outside, all of these tiny little details reminded me that it was perfectly fine for my family to be the way that it was and that there was nothing to be ashamed of. That transitioned into a lot of pride. 203 00:14:31,440 --> 00:16:04,920 Mangesh: I think that’s common too. Or at least I hope it is. That at some point, you stop worrying about the differences, and just own them. But that doesn’t always mean the world accepts you. Back in 2002, not long after 9/11, I moved to Birmingham, Alabama. The day I was leaving, my dad handed me a t-shirt with an American flag and an eagle on it. I’d already packed the car, had come in to give him a hug, and he just kind of handed it to me. Like it was this short-sleeved totem that could let everyone know I was American too. I knew his fears. In the weeks and months after 9/11 I remember the looks I’d get; the comments; the shoves, the ways people tried to instigate fights with me— things I know were only directed my way because of the color of my skin. Still, I tucked this t-shirt in my bag and never actually wore it. But I was thinking about that shirt again, and my dad’s idea of this weird form of protection, because Michelle started talking about this moment in time, from when Covid hit America forward, when anti-Asian hate became so prevalent and so visible. How the world inside her phone suddenly felt so much warmer and comforting than the one waiting outside her door. 204 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,160 Michelle: I also, like really didn't go out during COVID. Every 205 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,960 Michelle: time I did go out, it did make me super, 206 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,560 Michelle: super paranoid. Um, even now, just like going on the subway, 207 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:28,080 Michelle: like I still feel pretty anxious. I'll text my friends so that they know where I am, but now, it's not like “Hey, I'm in the city, keep an eye out for me.” It's like, “Hope I don't get pushed off the platform!” 208 00:16:28,120 --> 00:17:45,720 Mangesh: I’m not scared for myself these days, not really. But I am scared for my friends: my Asian friends, my friends who are women. In 2021, there were 233 reported anti-Asian hate crimes in NYC alone. In New York City alone. Fifty-five percent of those were against women. It’s no surprise that we cling to these totems for strength. Because, no, I don’t believe that clutching onto a band, or a t-shirt, or a gem, or even a banana can protect you. But in the face of so much unearned anger, maybe that grip gives you the courage to keep moving forward. 209 00:17:45,800 --> 00:18:14,880 Mangesh: Chapter two. Choosing teams. It’s funny to think about Michelle’s incredible moment of transcendence occurring in a stadium, because so many fans walk out of arenas feeling the same way. The high of watching your favorite team, cheering in unison with a crowd—there’s nothing like it. And that’s how Cesar Love feels. 210 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,760 Cesar: The game is a portal into something else. 211 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,880 Mangesh: Cesar is a baseball astrologer. 212 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,840 Cesar: I'm coming from the West Coast, San Francisco. I am 213 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,960 Cesar: part of the tribe of Giants fans and also part 214 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,800 Cesar: of the tribe of Oakland Athletics fans. 215 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:53,440 Mangesh: He loves stats and history. But somewhere along the way, he got frustrated. He couldn’t understand why his beloved team wasn’t winning despite an incredible lineup. And, out of curiosity, he wondered if astrology had an answer. Could Mercury be holding his team back from the success they surely deserved? 216 00:18:53,680 --> 00:19:08,040 Cesar: You can understand the team by looking at the chart. The Yankees have Saturn in the first house. They have this sense of tradition and that sort of imposing intimidating quality. So yes, it does come across. 217 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,119 Mangesh: Caesar kept studying. He kept grasping for understanding, but it 218 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,400 Mangesh: just wasn't something he could be open about. Baseball astrology? 219 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:24,200 Mangesh: I mean, it sounds nuts. But then he met Andrea Mallis. 220 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,240 Andrea: I'm testing with Mercury retrograde, one, two, three, testing. 221 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Cesar: I'm not quite sure if it was the nineties or 222 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,080 Cesar: early 2000s, but I met her at a meeting of 223 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,400 Cesar: the Society of American Baseball Research at the Oakland Coliseum. 224 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,800 Cesar: She was sitting next to me, and she asked the 225 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,880 Cesar: question to the general manager if they had ever used 226 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,280 Cesar: astrology in their analysis. And I thought, oh my god, 227 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,840 Cesar: this crowd is not going to be into this at all. 228 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,720 Cesar: But Andrea, who just is a lot more brazen about 229 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,240 Cesar: these things than I am, didn't care. 230 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,800 Mangesh: And when you talk to Andrea, you know exactly why. 231 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,760 Andrea: Here's the thing. I'm originally from New York. It takes 232 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,840 Andrea: a lot to intimidate me. 233 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,920 Mangesh: Despite the fact that people might balk, she has an impressive 234 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:10,840 Mangesh: list of clients. 235 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:19,440 Andrea: I was the astrologer during the A's Moneyball era. Obviously in terms of client confidentiality, I can't name names, but I have players, I have parents. 236 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,159 Mangesh: When I first heard about the Venn Diagram of baseball 237 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Mangesh: and astrology, I was hoping we could get some predictions. 238 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,119 Andrea: You know, the sports astrology niche is something I totally 239 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,680 Andrea: believe in and see results from. 240 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,560 Mangesh: With the World Series just around the corner, I wondered 241 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,600 Mangesh: if Andrea or Cesar knew who was going to win. 242 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,399 Mangesh: But when we actually approached the question, they were reluctant 243 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,199 Mangesh: to say. 244 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Andrea: I'm a cosmic umpire. You know, it's cosmic intel. I 245 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,040 Andrea: get most of the calls right. 246 00:20:49,560 --> 00:21:05,280 Cesar: I don't like to make those kind of predictions anymore. I think that's a trap for astrologers. A lot of them like to make predictions and feel like they're smart and show other people they're smart and say, “There, there. I told you so.” And I'd rather just leave that, just watch things unfold. 247 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,400 Mangesh: So then how can they use their astrological knowledge practically? 248 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,919 Mangesh: For Andrea, it's about coaching players and teams through really 249 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:15,919 Mangesh: big decisions. 250 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:49,000 Andrea: Tim Lincecum, he was a pitcher for the Giants. I saw his dad, and he goes, “He's turning down five years, a hundred million, help!” And I like pounced on it, I go, Chris, what time was Tim born? And he told me what time he was born, and I said, you know, he's a Gemini he's restless. He's having a Saturn return between 28 and 30. When I explained it to Chris, it was sort of a permission giver. I mean, he still didn't want him to turn down five years, a hundred million, but it's like, alright, he's a Gemini, he's a little scattered. He wants to see what else is out there. 251 00:21:49,760 --> 00:22:01,400 Mangesh: Andrea and Cesar know how to use statistics to reduce the game to numbers and calculations and take the emotion out of sporting decisions. They know how to use the numbers of astrology to that end too. 252 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:19,240 Andrea: I'll tell you, I've got four planets in Virgo, and on a good day, I'm a micromanaging control freak. I take a deep dive and I look at all the details. I just can't watch a game and relax. I wish I could. But you know, this is what makes me happy as a Virgo. 253 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Mangesh: But for both of them, baseball is a link to 254 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,840 Mangesh: something grander. 255 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:51,280 Cesar: People don't realize this, baseball actually began as a pagan fertility ritual. You can study the archeology of baseball, and it's not a uniquely American artifact. It's been played on all continents for millennia. The game has sort of evolved to where we have it now with the diamond with 90 feet distances between bases, but its origins and its history are as old as the hills. 256 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,280 Mangesh: Something courses through players and fans, connecting them not just 257 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,439 Mangesh: to one another, but to the universe. It's like a 258 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:00,480 Mangesh: certain type of faith. 259 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,840 Cesar: People go to a baseball game, they just feel good. 260 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,159 Cesar: It's the way people feel when they go to the 261 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,000 Cesar: beach and they know they're in the presence of something awesome, 262 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,960 Cesar: the ocean. There is something just profoundly spiritual happening in 263 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,080 Cesar: the following of a baseball team. So I think of 264 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,359 Cesar: each team as a spiritual community. 265 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:28,640 Mangesh: They're our found families, just like the BTS ARMY. 266 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,280 Mangesh: Chapter three. It's not embarrassing, it's in your chart. 267 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:53,440 Janelle: This is a chart that has a lot of ambition, 268 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,360 Janelle: a lot of drive, and a lot of desire to achieve. 269 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:08,280 Mangesh: I’ve got our house astrologer, Janelle Belgrave, on the line here, and I’m just connecting her with Michelle. They’re doing it over Zoom, because Michelle happens to be in Texas this week. 270 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,560 Janelle: I do like law for you. The night house traditionally 271 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,399 Janelle: has connections to the law, to philosophy, to higher learning, 272 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,280 Janelle: to higher education, to international travel, putting information out into 273 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,960 Janelle: the world and receiving information on a grand scale. 274 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:34,320 Michelle: I don't know. I feel like you're really buttering me up with this like international travel talk. ‘Cause I'm like, Ooh, girl, tell me more about that. I wanna hear more about where I'm gonna be! 275 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,080 Mangesh: Michelle doesn't know if any of this is real, but 276 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,959 Mangesh: she's definitely game to hear it all. Her chart shows 277 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,520 Mangesh: innate leadership skills and troubleshooting skills. It's says she's incredibly 278 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,399 Mangesh: inquisitive in how she perceives and moves through the world. 279 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,680 Michelle: A lot of it rings true. Very spooky. 280 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,520 Mangesh: But even though the talk is flattering, there are these 281 00:24:54,600 --> 00:25:00,359 Mangesh: moments when Michelle just disappears. She goes quiet, and I 282 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:06,520 Mangesh: can't tell what she's thinking. But as Janelle digs into family, 283 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,760 Mangesh: Michelle re-emerges. 284 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,240 Michelle: A lot of my interest in law is protecting cultures 285 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,640 Michelle: that are at risk of pretty much being trampled over 286 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,800 Michelle: or erased because of imperialism and globalization and authoritarianism. 287 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,919 Janelle: Maybe that's what's fueling you. You may come from a 288 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,720 Janelle: lineage that has people who have served in the military, 289 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,920 Janelle: or have come from countries have experienced war. 290 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,146 Michelle: Mm-hmm. 291 00:25:33,146 --> 00:25:36,000 Janelle: So where is this story of origin kind of showing 292 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,800 Janelle: up for you? If any of these things are making 293 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:38,440 Janelle: sense so far. 294 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:56,879 Michelle: Yeah. I immigrated to the U.S. when I was, I think, three-ish, maybe slightly younger than three. My family, being Chinese, a few generations ago lived through Japanese attacks on like our villages and things like that. 295 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:10,520 Janelle: Okay. So even for you, maybe moving at a young age might have been disruptive, right? Scorpio as a sign also deals a lot with rejection, where you feel like you don't belong, or you feel like people are judging you or wanting to be different than what you are. 296 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,919 Michelle: Yes, that's definitely the classic immigrant story of like, you 297 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,439 Michelle: fit too much into the home culture that you left, 298 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,560 Michelle: and so then you don't fit into the new culture. 299 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,239 Michelle: And then you start assimilating as you get older, and 300 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,120 Michelle: then you come back home and your parents are like, 301 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,759 Michelle: what are they teaching you at school? You know what 302 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,080 Michelle: I mean? 303 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,560 Mangesh: It is a classic story, the one Michelle and I 304 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,000 Mangesh: and even Janelle as a first-gen Panamanian must have felt. 305 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,359 Mangesh: Though the fact that it's typical, it doesn't make you 306 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,560 Mangesh: feel any less. 307 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,800 Janelle: Here we are now in 2022. Your next phase is 308 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,560 Janelle: going to be the balsamic moon phase. 309 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,640 Michelle: Balsamic? 310 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,480 Mangesh: I've never heard of a balsamic moon, which sounds tasty, 311 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,840 Mangesh: but in astrological terms, it's actually the final sliver you 312 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,320 Mangesh: see of a moon before it begins a new phase. 313 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,439 Mangesh: And in sort of a poetic way, it relates to 314 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,240 Mangesh: your commitment to your destiny. 315 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:18,040 Janelle: If you're applying to schools and all that, I want you to be very cognizant, all right? If I'm gonna be doing this next journey, what parts of my life do I really need to let go of right now? 316 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:19,181 Michelle: Mmm. 317 00:27:19,181 --> 00:27:21,159 Janelle: Because you can't walk into your new chapter, you know, 318 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Janelle: kind of raggedy, right? 319 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,467 Michelle: Yes, so- it's embarrassing that you could sniff that out through my chart. 320 00:27:29,467 --> 00:27:31,520 Janelle: Why is it embarrassing? It's in your chart. 321 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,840 Michelle: No, I love it. I love it. 322 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,700 Janelle: You're Mars and Scorpio. You're supposed to face your fears. 323 00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:36,880 Michelle: Mm-hmm. 324 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,560 Janelle: There's an element of your chart that says you have to show up, but courage and fire when you feel frightened. All right? 325 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,800 Mangesh: Janelle is so clearly encouraging her to go ahead and apply. 326 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,840 Mangesh: She's used the stars to confirm that Michelle is built 327 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,679 Mangesh: to speak out on important issues and show up for 328 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,000 Mangesh: people who can't speak out for themselves. But there's still 329 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,880 Mangesh: something that's hindering Michelle, and I wonder what it is. 330 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,280 Mangesh: But before we get to that: 331 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,440 Janelle: So I think, let's move on to BTS, yeah? 332 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,840 Michelle: Yay! 333 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:41,240 Mangesh: Last summer, BTS released a strange video that sent shockwaves through the fandom. Their usually sunny demeanor shifted, and they began talking about how exhausted they were, how something needed to change. A few months later, news broke that they would begin their compulsory service in the South Korean military, enlisting in turns to serve two-year stints. And even though they'll have time for some solo work before they go, fans knew this was the moment they'd been dreading. 334 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:53,760 Janelle: As a group, they are heading into a full moon phase, and their full moon phase is going to be in July of next year. So full moons, like I said, can be like the culmination, all the fruits of our labor ripe on the vine. 335 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:54,296 Michelle: Mm-hmm. 336 00:28:54,296 --> 00:29:03,440 Janelle: But also, full moons can talk about endings, too. Knowing that this is the top of the top for right now. And after this point, we know the decline is gonna come. Because this is just moon phases, right? 337 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,680 Michelle: Yeah, I guess- oh man, I, I, oh my god, my heart. 338 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:08,800 Janelle: Mm-hmm. 339 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:24,840 Michelle: There's a very selfish part of me that's like, no, I want you to keep making music. I want you to stay together. But I think more than that, I want to know that they are able to make the choices that they need to make. 340 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:43,840 Janelle: This might be one of the things that you might have to quote, unquote, let go during this balsamic phase, right? If this band decides that we're gonna take a hiatus or whatever the case is, you know, you may not be as involved, but they’re still gonna be part of your life, right? They're still together after many years, but go off and do their own thing and come back together every so often to enjoy performing. 341 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:44,460 Michelle: Yes. 342 00:29:44,460 --> 00:29:44,600 Janelle: Yeah? 343 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Michelle: BTS grandpas. 344 00:29:49,600 --> 00:30:31,160 Mangesh: So, about boy bands. Even though K-pop is a $5 billion industry now, ruled by three major corporations and flooded with what the New Yorker referred to as “generous government support,” Michelle’s made me realize that BTS actually is different. The manager in charge of putting the band together allowed BTS’s members to write lyrics and suggest themes to address their biggest concerns. So the band’s first three albums, they speak to Korean youth. Trying to comfort them through the intense academic pressures that kids in the country face. And that theme of protection has infused their entire vibe. 345 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,360 Janelle: Okay, so here's your natal chart on the inside and on the outside it's BTS. 346 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,120 Michelle: Whoa! 347 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:46,600 Mangesh: Janelle does something I wasn’t expecting. She takes the BTS birth chart and layers it over Michelle’s chart to see the influence they’ll have on one another. 348 00:30:47,520 --> 00:31:12,200 Janelle: I love that Mars sun and Jupiter and Gemini are in your 11th house. So bringing in possibilities for friendship and, and you know, group endeavors and collaborative things that might come in through the groups. I don't know if you have like fan groups or fan fiction groups or whatever it is. Something about them makes you feel like, I can do this, right? If I just keep going, or if I listen to this song while I do my applications, it'll be okay. 349 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:29,600 Michelle: I have! I have been listening to their songs, but you know, I've been so emotional lately that I can’t- I listen to some of their songs where they use older recordings and then I'll start crying and I'm like, okay, I can't do this application right now. I'm too emotional. Oh my god. 350 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,080 Janelle: And that's okay. That's good, right? It's good to cry. Make space. 351 00:31:47,520 --> 00:32:11,360 Mangesh: Chapter four. The sound of metal. One of the things I’ve been thinking about is how with every generation it’s a little easier to fit in. Or it should be. 352 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:19,120 Alap: I mentioned to you, I'm in, I've been in therapy for three years. It's another reason why it's funny you're doing this show now because I can actually talk about a lot of these things without getting emotional. I've processed and I'm healing. It's really nice. 353 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:28,760 Mangesh: My cousin Alap is five years older than me. And, even though it’s only five years, the America he grew up in was so much harder than the one I experienced. 354 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,400 Alap: I remember they would literally say, oh, you're Indian. What 355 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,240 Alap: tribe are you? Navajo? Cherokee? 356 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,040 Mangesh: Yeah. 357 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:52,640 Alap: You look at Indians in America now, and we're the top 11 CEOs of the biggest 11 companies or whatever, and everybody in America is doing yoga and drinking chai at Starbucks. And there's, there's never a problem knowing like, what tribe you are now, you know. I say, “We're the tribe that took over the world, bro.” 358 00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:03,480 Mangesh: Alap once told me, half-jokingly: “I’m like the coolest Indian you know!” And he’s right. I mean, even his name is cool. 359 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:24,959 Alap: Basically, the beginning of an Indian classical piece, the musicians are warming up, and they're just kind of vamping out on the three or four notes that they're going to be exploring in this piece. That section is called the Alap. it's strange that they knew I was gonna go into music because it's basically like naming your kid improv or something. 360 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:48,840 Mangesh: Ever since I’ve known him, he’s been surrounded by tapes and records, and by the time he was in college, he was producing albums. His band Dalek was kind of like Public Enemy meets My Bloody Valentine. One time I told a hip-hop head that Alap was my cousin, and he actually didn’t believe me. But I always just assumed Alap had it easy. 361 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:58,680 Alap: As soon as I got to New Jersey, age six, 1980, it was like a light switch. The very first day of school it started, it was- I don't want to get too graphic. 362 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,760 Mangesh: But tell me, 'cause, 'cause, I want to hear. I mean, 363 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,840 Mangesh: I can always cut out shit. 364 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:45,279 Alap: Sure. Okay. Well, you're gonna probably have to do some editing. From the age of basically six till about 13, I can just remember every time I woke up in the morning I had dread, you know, I had a massive anxiety. But we're Indians, we don't talk about it. We don't even know what that is in 1980, right? I'm six years old. And and basically as soon as I opened the door, girls are writing the n-word on my back. Um, you know, I'm getting beat up. Girls would spit on me, make fun of my clothes, make fun of my lunch. I would throw my lunch out ‘cause my parents gave me tiffin boxes with Indian food and these white people were eating bologna and cheese. And I literally would cry every night. 365 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:55,680 Mangesh: And as Alap dug deeper into music, finding solace in heavier and heavier sounds, it only gave the kids at school another reason to pick on him. 366 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:14,240 Alap: Heavy metal Hindu is what they used to say when I would get on the bus. ‘Cause I think like age 11, I started rocking, you know, I'd have like a Metallica Master of Puppets shirt with a jean jacket, but I would cut the sleeves off the jean jacket. So I guess they wanted to clown me, you know? 367 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:30,000 Mangesh: The abuse was intense. They’d pull at his shirt until it ripped. They’d tell him metal wasn’t for him. That not only did he not belong in town, but he didn’t belong as a fan. They told him he wasn’t allowed to have music—the one thing he truly loved. 368 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:42,680 Alap: That became a drive for me. And this is gonna sound arrogant as hell, but it just gave me a catalyst. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do this white boy shit harder than they can do it. I'm gonna do it better and I'm gonna prove them all wrong. 369 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:54,320 Mangesh: Punk? Hip-hop? These were outsider scenes. It wasn’t just that Alap had this knack of knowing what’s next. It’s also, he felt safer in these places. 370 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:12,600 Alap: We didn't have a community where we felt safe just being our Indian selves. You know, we felt safe at the punk rock shows. We felt safe at the hip hop spots, break dancing. We felt safe with the skateboarders. In those scenes, back then, you know, you hung out with a bunch of non-Indians and figured out a way to survive. 371 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,960 Mangesh: And as much as music gave him an outlet, it 372 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,520 Mangesh: was also a coping mechanism. 373 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:45,120 Alap: I used to tour ten months of the year. I used to work 20 hours a day. I'd never stop because I didn't want to deal with my present. So I became kind of a workaholic and it fueled my entire career till I was 35. So I started to notice my mind is present. I feel really good now. I'm starting to heal. I can talk about these horrifying experiences and not even cry! I feel like the universe gets me, and I know this sounds real new agey or whatever, but- 374 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,960 Mangesh: I mean, it's an astrology podcast. 375 00:36:47,000 --> 00:37:19,920 Alap: So, alright. You're talking about all these things happen internally as well as in the universe. It's, it's really strange, you know, and then we're musicians, right? So you're talking about repetition, loops [his words reverberate]. I mean, I grew up on hip-hop, club music. So you're talking about orbits here. You know, you're talking about rhythms, we're talking about vibrations, you know, shabda. The Hindu said the first element in creation when the Big Bang happened was sound. 376 00:37:22,000 --> 00:38:04,719 Mangesh: That primordial sound? It’s Om. Maybe you’ve heard it chanted at a yoga class, or you’ve seen it printed on a tea label. But that drone—it’s supposed to connect us to the divine, like a direct line to the essence of the universe. Alap’s music has always built off this constant humming sound. However heavy the music gets, that scaffolding always connects back. It’s like a subtle FU. Like–how could anyone ever tell Alap he doesn’t belong in this scene, when his music is literally universal. 377 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:28,040 Mangesh: Chapter five. This is how you belong. Michelle and I 378 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,359 Mangesh: are chatting on Zoom and I'm trying to gauge how 379 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,399 Mangesh: the reading struck her. 380 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:46,399 Michelle: I have always been like a super skeptic. But in the moment I was like, shoot, man. Like, I definitely took everything to heart that she was saying. She started talking about BTS going through a tough time. And I was like, Oh no, no. 381 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,560 Mangesh: What was she saying about applying to schools and a 382 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:52,600 Mangesh: possible law career? 383 00:38:53,080 --> 00:39:10,160 Michelle: I mean, part of it is, you know, we talked about the potential of a JD/PhD program, and she kind of gave me a little kick in the butt and was like, Listen, you need to be courageous, because that is what your chart is telling you to do. If it's right for you, you just gotta do it. Even if it's like nerve wracking. 384 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:26,280 Mangesh: Prior to this, I know that when Vahini and I were talking, she had said that like, You are super smart, but were hesitant to apply to law school. And everyone wants you to apply already. Like, you have to get on with the applications or stuff like that. So what was going on then? 385 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:54,799 Michelle: Before I graduated college, I was a lot more sure about like, law is the path that I'm going on. After that my cousin got really, really sick with cancer. And then my grandparents who had been living with us ended up returning to China. And, you know, we knew they wouldn't be coming back. And then my, my brother was having a really hard time with all of it. 386 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:04,640 Mangesh: Of course Michelle couldn’t focus on applying. Or even think about moving away. Michelle is all about family; she lives her values. 387 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:13,759 Michelle: All of those things, those ambitions felt so far away while all of the really, really like hard shit I had to witness every night. 388 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:34,160 Mangesh: And whatever qualities Michelle sees in ARMY, whatever solace she gets from this community of fans beyond the music, this feeling that BTS is looking out for her, that it’s a culture where everyone belongs, that there’s an emphasis on showing up and being kind—it brings out the best in her. 389 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,680 Michelle: I think I needed the time to like grow and 390 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,000 Michelle: figure out how to bring like all of these different 391 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,320 Michelle: pieces of my life together. 392 00:40:46,520 --> 00:41:02,160 Mangesh: I’m thinking back on a story from when we first met. She told me about this time she and her best friend traveled to LA to attend a BTS concert. And just as they walk into the venue, Michelle spots an older woman a few sections over who looks petrified. 393 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,040 Michelle: She very much looked like an Asian granny. I would 394 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,080 Michelle: help any granny, but like especially when it's an Asian 395 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,799 Michelle: grandma who looks like my own grandma. I'm like, oh 396 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,920 Michelle: my god, we have to go help her. 397 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,693 Mangesh: They go over, ask if she's alright. 398 00:41:13,693 --> 00:41:15,960 Michelle: And she's like, my seats are up there. I came 399 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,560 Michelle: all by myself, but I'm too scared to go up 400 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,240 Michelle: because I didn't realize it would be so high. 401 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,239 Mangesh: So Michelle, being Michelle, walks the sweet grandma all the 402 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,239 Mangesh: way up the steep staircase. And before she and her 403 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,560 Mangesh: friend leave, they make the woman a promise. 404 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,200 Michelle: At the end of the show, just sit in your spot, 405 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,040 Michelle: hang out, and we'll walk you back down. 406 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,360 Mangesh: Then they find their seats and enjoy the concert, or 407 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,640 Mangesh: try to. They can't stop worrying. Every few minutes they 408 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,600 Mangesh: look over to check on Grandma, and it turns out 409 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,879 Mangesh: there is no need. 410 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:49,320 Michelle: She was doing just fine. 411 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,960 Mangesh: She was having the time of her life. She's vibing 412 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,320 Mangesh: and dancing and making friends with other ARMYs. 413 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,080 Michelle: After the show, we all walked down together and we're talking, 414 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,120 Michelle: and she told us that she flew by herself from Vegas. 415 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:05,880 Michelle: So I was like, oh my god, Grandma! 416 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:28,640 Mangesh: To me, this is the opposite of Alap’s story. Michelle spotted an older woman who was clearly a BTS fan, and instead of saying, “You don’t belong,” she welcomed her. And even if BTS doesn’t stay together, they’ve already built something lasting. 417 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:37,920 Michelle: I still believe in my heart of hearts, BTS is not gonna break up, because they're not just a group, they're a team. They're a family. And families stay together. Ohana and everything. 418 00:42:40,320 --> 00:43:05,360 Mangesh: I don’t get any of Michelle’s boy band references, but I do know Ohana, because I love that line in Lilo and Stitch, where Lilo says: Ohana means family, and family means no one gets left behind. Because, in a sense, everything Michelle cares about is family. The little tribe she has in her home; the much bigger one she has online. 419 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,840 Michelle: I think it comes out of just me wanting to 420 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,759 Michelle: learn more about the world so that I can make 421 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,320 Michelle: it suck a little bit less. 422 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:32,640 Mangesh: Look, I haven’t been recruited to ARMY, but I’m still glad BTS exists. I mean, why wouldn’t we want a world full of BTS-es of all kinds reminding us that we all matter? Especially if we get a world full of Michelles out of it. 423 00:43:51,960 --> 00:44:31,097 Mangesh: Thank you so much for listening. Before I let you go, just a few housekeeping notes. One, my friend Sybil listened to the Reagan episode, and then she sent me this incredible quote from the New York Times, which I just have to share. It goes, “After Mr. Regan divulged Ms. Quigley's astrological role, Mrs. Reagan never spoke to her again. Ms. Quigley likened the slight to buying a Picasso and putting it in your living room and putting a piece of tape over the signature,” which is incredible. 424 00:44:31,097 --> 00:45:26,173 Mangesh: And second, you know, I do not believe in astrology, but our house astrologer, Janelle Belgrave, predicted this show would be delivered in two parts. And that's exactly what's happening. My other astrologer, Dr. Kumar, said things will get way better for this show after January 18th. So we are following the stars. We're taking a break for the holidays, throwing you a few super fun bonus episodes in between. And then we will be back with the second half of Skyline Drive starting mid-January. But if you like the show, please, please review it in the Apple Store. It makes our moms and us and our investors all very, very happy. Okay. That's it for the updates. Anna, hit me with some new music. 425 00:45:26,173 --> 00:45:55,921 Mangesh: Nice. Skyline Drive is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This show is hosted and written by me, Mangesh Hattikudur. But this show would not have made it to your ears if a whole bunch of people weren't carrying me. Starting with Mary Phillips Sandy, our supervising producer. I am not gonna join ARMY, but if someone starts a Mary P-S fan club, you know I'm in. 426 00:45:55,921 --> 00:46:30,719 Mangesh: Mitra Bonshahi is our wonderful senior producer and set up so many of these interviews. Mark Lotto is the very best story editor who took my jumbled mess of words and created a story out of it. Even though he edited out the bits about Nickelodeon and Double Dare—you can ask me about those later. This episode was also produced and mixed by the insanely talented Anna Rubanova, with scoring as always from Botany. Check out his SoundCloud. 427 00:46:30,719 --> 00:47:40,436 Mangesh: I need to thank my son Henry, who jumped on the mic for the warning. He doesn't have SoundCloud yet, but look for it in a year or so. It's coming. My big cousin Alap is just the best. You can check out all his latest work at internetandweed.com. That's right. His label is called Internet and Weed, and the music is dope. Speaking of incredible music, I’ve got to thank my friends at Azadi Records, Mumbai's hottest label. Also my pal HEEMS and my sister Shanta Hattikudur for her bhajans, which she sang on this. As always, we'll link to our mix tapes in the show notes. Oh, and I'm also gonna link to all the astrologers in this broadcast, including Dr. Divya, the numerologist. She was so kind and so wonderful, and she gave me so much of her time. Janelle Belgrave, who we love here. Cesar and Andrea, the incredible baseball astrologers, and of course the delightful Dr. Kumar. 428 00:47:40,436 --> 00:48:37,600 Mangesh: Additional production and research support from the wonderful Dhruv Shiva Rao; Lizzie Jacobs, my beautiful wife; Suman “the most talented person I know” Bakshi; and my cousin, Arjun Bakshi. This show is executive produced from iHeart by my good pals Nikki Ettore and Katrina Norvell. Also gotta thank my partners from Kaleidoscope who were all okay with me taking this break: Oz Woloshyn, Kate Osborn, Costas Linos and Vahini Shori. Special thanks to my friends at iHeart, Shata and Saurabh, Rachel Strom, my family everywhere. And as always, a big thank you to my Amma and my dad, Lalita and Umesh, who I thank my lucky stars for. I know you have so many podcasts to choose from. I just wanna say thank you for listening.