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Speaker 1: Body bus with Joseph's gotten more. You know, I go

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Speaker 1: and some days I will have one heck of a day.

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Speaker 1: Always on the air, I'm always going to teach, and

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Speaker 1: there's always someone tugging at me to do something. And

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily complaint as much as it is the

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Speaker 1: reality of my life. And I chose it, no one

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Speaker 1: else did. But you know who's always there for me

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Speaker 1: is in fact, my wife. And the thing that she

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Speaker 1: does for me that I just it just brings me joy.

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Speaker 1: We have coffee together every morning. We have coffee and

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Speaker 1: I study in the morning and she fills up my

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Speaker 1: coffee and then she'll make me something to eat. And

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I do the same for her.

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Speaker 1: But she is just an angel on earth. And do

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Speaker 1: you know why. It's because she's proved herself over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again. And anytime I receive something from her,

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Speaker 1: it's done with blind trust. But just imagine for a

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Speaker 1: moment that you're married to someone and they give you

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Speaker 1: something to ingest, either food or drink, and suddenly the

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Speaker 1: world starts to spend around you, and then you fade

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Speaker 1: the black. Today, we're going to discuss the case that

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Speaker 1: we've already featured on body Bags, but a little update

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Speaker 1: on the Corey Richard's case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and

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Speaker 1: this is body Bags. Hey, Dave, you need to run

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Speaker 1: over here and make you a Moscow mule.

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Speaker 2: You know, retired my liver August seventh, nineteen ninety So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to take a pass on that one.

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Speaker 1: Good for you.

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Speaker 2: But in the case of Corey Richins, you know, when

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Speaker 2: I first saw that Moscow mule, I really thought this

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Speaker 2: was some kind of a joke thing. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: it was a real thing. I thought it was just

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Speaker 2: like a nickname they had I and I realized I've

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Speaker 2: just been way out of that culture for a long time,

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Speaker 2: because I'd never heard of Moscow mule until now. And

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Speaker 2: now it seems to pop up all over the place, all.

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Speaker 1: Over the place. You know, it's when you see it,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of an inviting looking drink. And the reason

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Speaker 1: it is is that it served I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you were, if you were around your grandparents when you

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Speaker 1: were little. My grandmother had aluminum tumblers, do you remember

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Speaker 1: these things? And when you hit eyes on them and

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Speaker 1: something cold, it would sweat externally and it was so

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Speaker 1: refreshing on a cold on a sorry, it was so

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Speaker 1: refreshing on a hot day. We had a lot of

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Speaker 1: those when I was little in Louisiana and Moscow. Mule

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Speaker 1: was a lot like that. It's in a metallic like

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Speaker 1: glass and that's how it served. They always show it

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Speaker 1: in the images of there's a level of uh, there's

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Speaker 1: like a layer.

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Speaker 2: Of ice on the top of it.

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Speaker 1: It's sweating, and I think that they'll put like a

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Speaker 1: mint leaf or something on time. It just it's it's

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Speaker 1: attractive to look at. It's not like you're drinking rock

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Speaker 1: gut liquor with you know, like a skull and crossbones

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Speaker 1: on the outside of it. This is it's inviting looking, man.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it really is. And I think that that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things about Corey the Corey Richard's case

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Speaker 1: is that she used this drink and other medium to

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Speaker 1: bring about her husband's death.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting that she did try it before. She

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Speaker 2: was not successful in her first attempts to kill him,

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Speaker 2: although he was kind of tipped off during a vacation

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Speaker 2: they had in Greece where she brought him something and

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Speaker 2: he got sick right after, and that was his first

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Speaker 2: thought he actually talked to I think his sister or brother.

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Speaker 2: He talked to some but he from Greece and said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: she poisoned me, you know. And right, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 2: honest with you. If I think that I'm not touching

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Speaker 2: whatever you bring me next time, I'll give you the

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Speaker 2: benefit of the doubt that you didn't do it on purpose.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, It's like you go to certain countries and

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Speaker 1: they tell you only drink drink like soda that's in

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Speaker 1: a capped bottle, you know, something like this or you

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Speaker 1: know that sort of thing. As far as I'm concerned,

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Speaker 1: Corey Richins is that country where you need to beware

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Speaker 1: what you're going to ingest and what you're going to

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Speaker 1: take on, because you don't know it might very well

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Speaker 1: lead to your demise. And of course, with her husband,

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Speaker 1: it appears at least that this has been the case.

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Speaker 1: She's been charged and she's been charged with utilizing fentanyl

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Speaker 1: in order to take his life, which in and of

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Speaker 1: itself is the reality of fentanyl is amazing because some

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Speaker 1: people actually state that fentanyl is in fact, let me

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Speaker 1: get my number straight. Most of the time they will say,

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Speaker 1: it is at least one hundred times more lethal than morphine.

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Speaker 2: All right, why do they use morphine as that?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's yeah, it's a it's a baseline for an opiate.

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Speaker 1: It's like a naturally occurring it's not a synthetic. You

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Speaker 1: can it can be extracted from you know, like opium

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Speaker 1: the poppy plant. That's kind of where the origin of

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Speaker 1: all of this comes from. And so and morphine traditionally,

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Speaker 1: and listen, all of these, even synthetic opiates, fentanyl is

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Speaker 1: has a therapeutic application to it. You know, people became

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Speaker 1: aware of it years ago because of the fentanyl patches.

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Speaker 2: I was going to that's where it started because I

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Speaker 2: remember that and then, you know what, you want to

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Speaker 2: talk evil. The fentanyl patches came out and within about

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Speaker 2: two years of them actually being that point where you

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Speaker 2: actually knew somebody that had a patch for chronic pain,

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Speaker 2: about two years after that you started seeing problems with

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Speaker 2: the fentanyl patch. And what it is is drug addicts

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Speaker 2: were doing all the things you aren't supposed to do,

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Speaker 2: poking holes in them, soaking them in water, boiling the

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Speaker 2: plastic strips in the middle. I mean, they did everything

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Speaker 2: possible to get high from this drug from fenchanyl.

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Speaker 1: Wearing wearing multip multiple.

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Speaker 2: Patches, and that was just horrible. But then as that

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Speaker 2: started happening, you saw something else, lawsuits suing the patch makers,

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Speaker 2: and it was families that said they knew there was

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Speaker 2: a chance these could be abused, they knew somebody who

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Speaker 2: was an addict. Could you know it would kill people?

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Speaker 2: But the thing is, in places like Alabama, Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: lobbyists have made it so that by the time you

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Speaker 2: go through the grief process and realize that your loved

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Speaker 2: one died as a direct result of this drug, they

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Speaker 2: make it so that you have to file a lawsuit

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Speaker 2: within a certain period of time. But that certain period

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Speaker 2: of time is still during the grieving process, and it's

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Speaker 2: about three months before most people wake up and go, hey.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, TikTok, TikTok, and then you count on yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's the same thing with OxyS as well.

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Speaker 1: Really and you know we yeah, and oxy's had a

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Speaker 1: had had these applications as well. Think about it with

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Speaker 1: OxyS is that yeah, there were uh, counterfeit OxyS that

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Speaker 1: are out there. But with fentanyl, fentyl, you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff has come into this country from across

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Speaker 1: the border. It's been manufactured in the labs everywhere. And

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Speaker 1: here's one other kind of little insidious bit to this

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Speaker 1: is that with all it will be applied to certain

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Speaker 1: other drugs in order to give those that are addicted

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Speaker 1: to it the sense. It's a sales pitch essentially. Now,

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Speaker 1: how evil is this that, because of the strength of

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Speaker 1: the stuff, that if you buy my product from me,

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Speaker 1: it's going to do even more than you could even imagine.

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Speaker 1: If I were as an investigator that worked for the

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Speaker 1: medical examer they have state Medical Examiner in Utah, and

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Speaker 1: I had a young man that died like this. I

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Speaker 1: am not just going to be able to waltz over

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Speaker 1: to his attending physician, who might be a guy that

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Speaker 1: he just goes and sees her an annual checkup, and say, hey, doc, yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of your payatis has just passed away. Will you

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Speaker 1: sign his death certificate? That doctor is going to look

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Speaker 1: at me as if I have spiders crawling out of

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Speaker 1: my ears and say, have you lost your mind? I'm

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Speaker 1: not signing this. He has no previous medical history at all.

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Speaker 1: I'm not putting my name on that. Because he's got

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Speaker 1: to conjure up a cause of death for this person,

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Speaker 1: and it may, on the surface appear to be a

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Speaker 1: natural event because he doesn't have any trauma. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: this requires on the part of the medical examiner to

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Speaker 1: do a deep dive to try to understand what in

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Speaker 1: fact happened. What was it this bolt of thunder that

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Speaker 1: brought down death upon this man at such a young age.

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Speaker 2: When the police are called to an event like this

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Speaker 2: thirty nine year old guy dad in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the night and in a seemingly comforting area. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's at home in bed and being a wife and kids,

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Speaker 2: the whole nine. I'm wondering, as you get into this

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Speaker 2: and you start looking around as an investigator of people

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Speaker 2: who are no longer with us, if you notice the

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Speaker 2: man that is dead doesn't appear to have been like,

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Speaker 2: there was no life saving measures, no CPR, But the

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Speaker 2: spouse says, yeah, I did CPR, but nothing is there.

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Speaker 2: Can you figure that out when you're looking at the body,

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Speaker 2: Can you tell if somebody has actually tried to do

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Speaker 2: life saving measures on the individual?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a tough thing. First off, if you've been trained,

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Speaker 1: for instance, in basic life saving. If folks go to

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Speaker 1: the Red Cross, for instance, and they get their CPR certification.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that they want you

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Speaker 1: to do, if at all possible, is to get this

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Speaker 1: subject onto if they're in cardiac arrest, get them onto

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Speaker 1: a hard surface. And the purpose of that is so

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Speaker 1: that you can be above them and you can do

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Speaker 1: an overall examination very quickly. You're looking for things, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to get the airway open,

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Speaker 1: which is generally facility roitated more easily on that kind

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Speaker 1: of surface if you're not a medical professional, where you

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Speaker 1: can kind of arch the neck back, observe the airway.

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Speaker 1: The old thing about sweeping the airways, see if the

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Speaker 1: airway is included block by anything. And then to do

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Speaker 1: chess compressions, you need a firm surface. You're interlocking your hands,

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Speaker 1: you're placing them adjacent to the sternum, and you're doing

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Speaker 1: these counts of compressions and then breaths that you have

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Speaker 1: to do. So one of the things that we'll look

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Speaker 1: for is you said that you try to save him, Well,

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Speaker 1: why didn't you pull them over onto the floor. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she could easily say it was a lot bigger than me.

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Speaker 1: I was just frantic. I was just trying to save him.

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Speaker 1: But that's one of the first indicators. Have they taken

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Speaker 1: any steps to see, you know, if there's any kind

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Speaker 1: of trauma, And of course if EMTs roll out there,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be pretty obvious. They leave debris everywhere

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Speaker 1: because they're cracking open. And I'm not saying that I'm

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Speaker 1: not in an accusatory way. People have to understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: they have to crack open their supplies there and they

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Speaker 1: just drop them because they're in the midst of to

200
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Speaker 1: save somebody's life. And you'll have disposable ambou bags, which

201
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Speaker 1: are the little breathing bags that they use, and you'll

202
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Speaker 1: have ekg leads that are stuck on various locations anatomically

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Speaker 1: on the body, and sometimes in the field you can

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Speaker 1: see paddle marks on the chest where they know they've

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Speaker 1: tried to jolt the individual back into back into rhythm.

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Speaker 1: As an investigator, you want to try to understand is

207
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Speaker 1: there anything that stands out here? Is there anything at

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Speaker 1: the scene that is going to give me pause to

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Speaker 1: think this is something as there was an old friends

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Speaker 1: of pathologist that used to tell me in the morgue,

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Speaker 1: he says, I want to know if there was anything

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Speaker 1: to indicate that this death is something other than as advertised,

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Speaker 1: is what he would say. And so that became kind

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Speaker 1: of a key feature in my mind as I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at this, Is there anything here to indicate that this

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Speaker 1: is something other than has advertised by the family, Because

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Speaker 1: the family who in this case is going to be

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Speaker 1: the person that discovers them, is going to be the

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Speaker 1: person that's the tone for.

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Speaker 2: The narrative, and that's what got my attention. According to

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Speaker 2: court documents, Richins and his wife, Corey, were celebrating a

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Speaker 2: business accomplishment the night he died. Corey reportedly made Eric

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Speaker 2: a moscow mule and brought it to him in the bedroom.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime, Corey says she went to help one

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Speaker 2: of their children and didn't return to bed for several hours.

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Speaker 2: It was then she noticed Derek was cold to the touch,

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Speaker 2: and she calls nine one one and is supposedly attempting

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Speaker 2: to give Eric CPR. According to the rest affidavit, though

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Speaker 2: first responders arrived and it seemed as though she really

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Speaker 2: hadn't done anything, there was apparently amount of blood in

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Speaker 2: his mouth that made them realize that she's lying. So

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Speaker 2: immediately it's you've got a dead thirty nine year old man.

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Speaker 2: There's no bullet wounds, there's no knife wounds, there's no

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Speaker 2: other indications on his body that anything has been done

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Speaker 2: to him, and yet she claims she performed CPR. There's

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Speaker 2: evidence she didn't. So they're going to have to run

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Speaker 2: a drug panel. I'm guessing they're going to have to

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Speaker 2: figure out a toxic so when they do that, Joe,

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Speaker 2: And this is just because I don't know what are

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Speaker 2: they testing for. I mean, you just testing for cocaine pills.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what the test includes. But

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing in this day and age, there would be

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Speaker 2: a pretty long list of drugs and things to test

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Speaker 2: for in a person these days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are. And let me give you I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad you mentioned this about the evidence of blood in

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Speaker 1: the mouth, and you make a valid point here regarding

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Speaker 1: the presence of it and an absence of it, say,

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Speaker 1: for instance, on her, because if you're doing mouth to mouth,

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Speaker 1: there'll be that transfer of substances out of the mouth.

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed people that have had vomitous on their face

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Speaker 1: as a result of doing CPR, and I know that's

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Speaker 1: really disgusting. But this is body bags, that's what we

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Speaker 1: talk about, and that's evidence. It's evidence of something that

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Speaker 1: has occurred. But when you begin to think about blood

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Speaker 1: in the mouth, I'd be very curious to know what

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Speaker 1: his pallor was like. The pallor is a term that

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Speaker 1: people use regarding the coloration of the body. And we

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Speaker 1: have mentioned this before. Remember I've talked about how people

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Speaker 1: that are in congestive failure have almost an eggplant color

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Speaker 1: to them, where they'll be purple, and that goes to congestion.

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Speaker 1: And what we look for is the level of congestion

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Speaker 1: from what they refer to as from the nipple line

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Speaker 1: to the top of the head. Well, if that's going on,

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Speaker 1: and we suspect that it is some kind of congestive

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Speaker 1: failure that's going on, and we know he doesn't have, say,

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Speaker 1: heart disease or something like that, then things come to mind.

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Speaker 1: We begin to think was this and the six ye

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Speaker 1: old death or was this a drug death? And because

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Speaker 1: many drugs that are out there, you mentioned a panel

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Speaker 1: that's run and this is referred to as a post

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Speaker 1: mortem panel. Was there anything on board? And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you the three sources primarily that we draw from

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Speaker 1: from the body had autopsy. First off, we draw blood.

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Speaker 1: Most of the time that's going to come from the aorta,

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Speaker 1: which is a large vessel that runs off of the heart. Okay,

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Speaker 1: some times we'll have to go for peripheral blood, particularly

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Speaker 1: if you've got a real massive trauma case. You might

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Speaker 1: have to even know I've had to go into the

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Speaker 1: feneral ardy in the leg in order to draw blood

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Speaker 1: because there's been such copious blood loss. Then we're going

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Speaker 1: to go and grab urine. People say, how do you

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Speaker 1: do that, Well, after you have the body open, you

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Speaker 1: can actually go into what's referred to as the roof

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Speaker 1: of the bladder and draw directly out of the bladder,

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Speaker 1: so you can get a rather robust sample of urine,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty good a great source to look for

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Speaker 1: a variety of different types of drugs. And then we

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Speaker 1: go and this often just settles people. We go into

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Speaker 1: the eye and we draw what's referred to as vitreous fluid,

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Speaker 1: which is a viscous kind of fluid that provides form

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Speaker 1: to the eyes. The reason our eyes are not flat,

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Speaker 1: they're filled with this viscous fluid. It holds onto things

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Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time. You can't necessarily quantify

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Speaker 1: the level of drugs that are there, but you can

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Speaker 1: kind of qualify it. It's kind of like reading the

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Speaker 1: rings on a tree. That's the way I've always compared

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Speaker 1: in my simple mind. It helps me remember that every

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Speaker 1: now and then, we'll draw bile from gallbladder if the

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Speaker 1: gallbladder still exists. Many people have had closest sectomies and

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Speaker 1: gallbladder's no longer there. But here's the one thing that

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Speaker 1: is really curious about this case, David. The authorities have

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Speaker 1: in fact released the fact that they think whatever this

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Speaker 1: agent was, and they suspect right now that it was

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Speaker 1: fentyl because it was found in the system, that it

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Speaker 1: was ingested. This is not something he smoked, it's not

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Speaker 1: something he was injected with. Would you like me to

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Speaker 1: tell you how they make that determination?

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Speaker 2: How would you possibly know the difference this is?

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Speaker 1: It's not again I talk about friends of pathology can

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Speaker 1: be layered and complicated all this stuff, but it's really

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Speaker 1: it's really common sense. We take gastric samples, so when

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Speaker 1: we're doing our dissection in the body in the morgue,

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Speaker 1: what happens is is that when the stomach is examined,

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Speaker 1: First off, you don't examine it inside the body cavity.

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Speaker 1: You tie it off superior, like at the base of

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Speaker 1: the esophagus where it kind of dumps into the top

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Speaker 1: part of the stomach. You tie it off there. You

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Speaker 1: clip it above the tie off. Then you go inferior

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Speaker 1: or below the stomach where it dumps into the small

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Speaker 1: bowel and there's a loop of bowel that comes off there.

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Speaker 1: What you go through there and you tie that off.

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Speaker 1: All the other connective tissue that is going to hold

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Speaker 1: the stomach in place is going to be trimmed away,

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Speaker 1: and the stomach comes out like a big sack essentially.

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Speaker 1: And this is very important because once you get the

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Speaker 1: stomach outside of the body cavity, because if you open

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Speaker 1: it up in the body cavity, it'll commingle with any

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Speaker 1: kind of residual blood that's come about from the autopsy

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Speaker 1: and this sort of thing. Place the stomach onto the

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Speaker 1: dissecting board and you get a big container. Right, You

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Speaker 1: hold one end of the stomach and let gravity do

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Speaker 1: the work. You clip one of the ends that has

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Speaker 1: been tied off, and the contents of the stomach literally

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Speaker 1: pour into these containers. I've seen it done in a variety

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Speaker 1: of ways. I've seen people actually dip the contents out,

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Speaker 1: but this is the most effective way because you can

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Speaker 1: get everything. One of the things that you first do

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Speaker 1: is you visualize. It's just the same with any other

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Speaker 1: kind of examination. You'll visualize. You're looking for what has

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Speaker 1: been ingested. And some food stuffs are very easy to appreciate,

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Speaker 1: particularly things that are green and leafy. You can pick

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Speaker 1: up on that pretty quickly. You can actually smell when

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Speaker 1: you open the stomach. The smell of alcohol, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: becomes highly concentrated when you open the stomach. If anybody's

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Speaker 1: even had one glass of wine, it'll not get back.

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Speaker 1: It's not like someone have you ever like the morning

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Speaker 1: after you've been around somebody that has been drinking the

349
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Speaker 1: night before and they kind of breathe on you. You can

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Speaker 1: get that odor of alcohol. And I know that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of jokes made about that. Imagine that smell

352
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Speaker 1: that you smell coming off a living person and multiply

353
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Speaker 1: that by factor of two and it'll knock you to

354
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Speaker 1: your knees many times. So you're trying to get all

355
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Speaker 1: of the contents and so you're going to visualize these contents.

356
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Speaker 1: You'll see autopsy reports that we'll talk about aromas. Most famously,

357
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Speaker 1: it's going to be alcohol. You know, there's a distinct

358
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Speaker 1: odor of alcohol. Forensic pathologists will say. But to the

359
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: visual aspect, you're looking to see if there are any

360
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Speaker 1: particulate and remnant of drugs that are remaining white, powdery

361
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Speaker 1: little dots for instance, depended upon the type of drug

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Speaker 1: it is that it hasn't been fully digested in the

363
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Speaker 1: system yet. Now, if that fails, you take a sample

364
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Speaker 1: of that gastric content. Remember I talked about how we

365
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Speaker 1: dumped it into a container. Well you take a separate

366
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Speaker 1: tube and you pour that content into the tube and

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Speaker 1: that goes to the state crime lab and they will

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Speaker 1: run all of the panels that are standard now in

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Speaker 1: the world in which we in dwell. Nowadays, there is

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Speaker 1: a pestilence upon our country and it's fentanyl. It's so pervasive.

371
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Speaker 1: It's used as an additive for drugs. Now people will

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Speaker 1: lace things with fentanyl. People have used ventyl, which is

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Speaker 1: a narcotic, for a long time. You know, it's been

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Speaker 1: on the schedule of drugs that have been used by

375
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Speaker 1: physicians for pain relief and all these sorts of things.

376
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: It's out there, but it's so insidious, Dave, that this

377
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Speaker 1: now is part of a standard forensic drug panel. If

378
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Speaker 1: you're looking to be stealthy in a poisoning, fentanyl is

379
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: not the way you want to go. It's not an exotic,

380
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 1: it's not something like We've got to send this drug

381
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Speaker 1: test off to Germany to see if they can find

382
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: something there that we might not be thinking of. No, no, no,

383
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Speaker 1: this is they're going to get a hit on this

384
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Speaker 1: and once they determine that it's there, and that's when

385
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: you know you'd ask me early on, that's when you're

386
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Speaker 1: going to Now once you've and I keep saying this,

387
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: once you've qualified it, that means that it is there,

388
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: then you're going to quantify it. And in the case

389
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Speaker 1: of Eric Richins, police have decided something here. They've decided

390
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Speaker 1: not only is Eric Richins's death a homicide, but it

391
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Speaker 1: is a homicide via fentyl.

392
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Speaker 2: So how much fentanyl would Eric Richins have ingested? How

393
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Speaker 2: much would it take to kill a person? And what

394
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: does fentanyl do to the body, Joe.

395
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Speaker 1: Amazingly, fentanyl is one of these drugs that when it

396
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: is it's essentially microdosed from the perspective of how much

397
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: is administered, even from a therapeutic you know, fentyl traditionally

398
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: has been a therapeutic drug, right, It's something that's used

399
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Speaker 1: in medical practice. It's a precursor many times for anesthesia.

400
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. If you most of the time

401
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: when you take a drug, it's measured in milligrams, right, Dave.

402
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: So if it's measured in milligrams, think about this. Fentanyl

403
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: is administered in micrograms. Okay, So just so you understand,

404
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: one microgram of fentanyl is equivalent to point zero zero

405
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: zero one milligrams of another drug. And when you get

406
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: up into the level of say, for instance, now we're

407
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: talking micrograms, not milligrams. When you start to get up

408
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: into like one hundred and fifty micrograms, you're starting to

409
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: get up into that lethal level. It doesn't take much.

410
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, there's a there's a couple

411
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: of great m there online. People can appreciate this. It

412
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: is granular, a granular presentation of fentanyl adjacent to a penny.

413
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: And when you see this comparison between the two, the

414
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: penny and everyone knows what a penny looks like. The

415
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: penny looks gigantic and just that small doses. It's being

416
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: demonstrated there in a physical sense, because it's really hard

417
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: to wrap your brain around these numbers. It looks so tiny,

418
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: but it is so very, very lethal. You have to

419
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: think about what the mechanism is that that occurs when

420
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: fentanyl is ingested. You know what's its purpose? Well, the

421
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: purpose with fentanyl being a precursor, for instance, for something

422
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: like anesthesia, something that's going to put you into that

423
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: kind of dream like state. You know, it's going to

424
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: press you down and down and down. Well, if you

425
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: give a person too much of this stuff, it automatically

426
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: goes to work obviously on the brain neurological centers, but

427
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: more specifically, it really compromises deepening. Upon how much you

428
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: have on board, it really compromises your ability to breathe.

429
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: It will send and how many times have we talked

430
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: about this on body backs With a lot of other drugs,

431
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: particularly heroin, it will send the individual into respiratory distress.

432
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: And can you imagine you're in this kind of dream

433
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: like state and there's no way to kind of climb

434
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: up out of it. But maybe just meant maybe you're

435
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: sensing your inability to breathe. It's like being held beneath

436
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: water and you can't breathe, you can't come up out

437
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: of it, and your body's reacting. You start to convulse.

438
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: Perhaps your brain is screaming for oxygen, but you can't

439
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: uptake it at all, and so this is going to

440
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: lead to rest toward failure. And of course you have

441
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: you have desks that are associated with this, and a

442
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: lot of this is dependent upon, you know, the dosage

443
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: that's going to be administered. It's not like, okay, it's

444
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: not like you're at the Mayo Clinic and you're going

445
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: through a drug drug trial or that you have a

446
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: team of physicians and nurses and technicians that are monitoring

447
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: you while you're on these medications. This is coming from

448
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: somebody with unwashed hands and some uh, you know, clandestine

449
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: lab somewhere that are manufacturing these things and then they're

450
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: they're being dealt on the street to individuals, and so

451
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: just a couple of grains perhaps are enough to kill anybody.

452
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: But a lot of it is dependent upon your own physiology.

453
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: You're on makeup. You know, if you take a grown

454
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 1: man and apply a certain level to that subject as

455
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: opposed to say, a young young team. It's going to

456
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: be much more lethal for the young team, you know,

457
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: relative to body weight and all those sorts of things.

458
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: But Corey Richans never apparently had had difficulty getting the

459
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: thing dialed in, and I think that that's what she's

460
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: looking at. And the idea that she could get it

461
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: dialed in allegedly to weaponize it to the point where

462
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: she could take his life is something that you know,

463
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: she kind of struggled with along the way, Dave.

464
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: You know, as we were talking about this, and we

465
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: have done a show on fentanyl, and we've done shows

466
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: on so many different things that when you were talking

467
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: about how drug dealers will use this as a means

468
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: of as a sales pitch, all I could think of

469
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: is the families that are destroyed by something that actually,

470
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: you know, they did and designed this drug for the desk,

471
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: for the what was going to happen. That wasn't the point.

472
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: There were real reasons for this, and like everything else,

473
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: somebody finds a way to take advantage of other people

474
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: and boom, now we've got Corey Richens, who actually went

475
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: out of her way to get this particular drug to

476
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: try to kill her husband. Was she trying to make

477
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: it so that he would die of a fentanyl overdose

478
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: and it would come back testing positive fentanyl and she

479
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 2: would say, oh, yeah, he was using drugs troubled.

480
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's you know, and that's the

481
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: word that's always used, right, and you know, you you

482
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: kind of cast this this long shadow on his life.

483
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: And it certainly and it takes the focus off of

484
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: off of you if you were a potential suspect in

485
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: this group. Not to mention, you've got somebody that if

486
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, didn't she write a book, Dave?

487
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: After her husband was dead? She came out with a

488
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: book about her children. Yeah, about helping her children get

489
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: through the grief. And here's the thing I want you

490
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: to know. And I'm not knocking anyone who self publishes, Okay,

491
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: self publishing a book is a great way of getting

492
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: your voice heard, getting it into a marketplace when you

493
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: can't access other means, you know, a Oxbow press or whatever.

494
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: But Corey Richins did this, and I'm thinking the whole

495
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: time she did it, Joe, she knew the fight she

496
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: had with her his family. She writes this book as

497
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: a means of building sympathy for herself because right away,

498
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: right after his death, they were fighting. Right after his death,

499
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: they came to fisticuffs over his face. I mean, it's

500
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: safe further, and she wrote that book as a way

501
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: of gaining sympathy for herself while she fought for the

502
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: money she allegedly killed her husband for right.

503
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: And it is a means to an end, I think,

504
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: and again going and going to this idea of seeking,

505
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, seeking sympathy. I think in these horrible times,

506
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: knowing good and well allegedly uh, what you were doing.

507
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a number of these cases along

508
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: the way. And I've talked about this and I promise

509
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: our listeners I am going to do an episode on

510
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: the a Jet Lyles case. It's one of my favorite

511
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: ones of all time, and that that was kind of

512
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: it's kind of a Munchausen's case. But she had also

513
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: killed two husbands in addition, and a former mother in law,

514
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: not to mention a child. Uh and so, and she's poisoning, uh,

515
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, doing this and gleaning a lot of sympathy

516
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: for it. But this feels like something different than the

517
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: an jet Lyles case. This feels more Uh, well, it's

518
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: certainly very mercenary if what what the prosecutor what the

519
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: prosecution is saying is accurate, and it seems to be

520
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: at this point of course, so as you have to

521
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: go to try.

522
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: The name of the book, by the way, is called

523
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: Are you with me? I apologize for I didn't mean

524
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: to jump in.

525
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, that's and it's it's a

526
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: book to allegedly help with grieving children. I think it's

527
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: still available. Yeah, and again that's uh, it's kind of

528
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: it's well to say it's kind of troubling is to

529
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: is a gross understatement. But I think the big thing

530
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: here is, David, I understand that we've actually got an

531
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: update in in this case. What's what's going on? Man?

532
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: You know you and I were talking about the depth

533
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: of this case, and it's not just the surface level

534
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: of she bought drugs and put it in the Moscow

535
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: mule and he died and boom. She has a story

536
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: to tell. You mentioned earlier that she worked her way

537
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: up to it. Well, every time she did something, she

538
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: left a trail. Every time she attempted to do something,

539
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: she left a trail. There are forensic breadcrumbs being dropped

540
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: all over the place, and I'm shocked and saddened that

541
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: they didn't pick up on this earlier, in particular text

542
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: messages that have location data that actually showed what Corey

543
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: Richins did when and how. I don't know how these

544
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: things work, Joe, I just know that they do some

545
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: Accunty prosecutor Brad Bloodworth said that Corey Richins learned lessons

546
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: on killing during unsuccessful attempts, that she tried to kill

547
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: her husband and finally she did it about two and

548
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: a half weeks later. She actually had a really good

549
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: attempt on Valentine's Day, yes, where he it was a

550
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: sandwich that he bit into and it was left with

551
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 2: a note in the front seat of his truck on

552
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day and Eric Richins ate it. And now I

553
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: go back to what we were talking about a minute ago,

554
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: about when he was in Greece and thought he was

555
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: being poisoned and he calls homes I think she tried

556
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: to poison me last night. And I'm telling you, Joe,

557
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: if you call me from if you call me from

558
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: London and you say, dude, I think Kim is trying

559
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: to you know, I think she tried to poise. I'm

560
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 2: not going to let you eat what she gives you

561
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: next time, you.

562
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, yeah, please don't.

563
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: But Eric Richards he ends up eating this sandwich made

564
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: for him by his wife. He breaks out in hives

565
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: and blacks out. Corey Richards had brought him the sandwich

566
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: from a local diner. What did she possibly put in it?

567
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah? And here's the you know, here's the thing. He

568
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: had enough self awareness at that particular time that you know,

569
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: he had actually injected himself with his son's EpiPen, which

570
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: is epinephrine. By the way, man, do you use it

571
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: to ePIE? Traditionally epinephrin, the drug itself is was had

572
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: been used for years and years when someone's in cardiac arrest, uh,

573
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: you give him a shot of epi. It's generally a

574
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: direct injection into, you know, into the heart, uh, to stimulate,

575
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, the heart to begin beating again. Refer to

576
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: you know that that classic scene of pulp fiction, which is,

577
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, would would make stronger men than me even

578
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: shudder a little bit at that scene. And he had

579
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: he had also had an awareness of UH to the

580
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: point where he took Ben a drill, which again if

581
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: you're having some kind of allergic reaction to a drug

582
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: perhaps or to an agent rather can help. You know,

583
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: many people uh you know will take take ben a

584
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: drill in the event that they you know, they've had

585
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: a beasting or something like that and you try to

586
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: use it. Uh epinephyrine and benadryl will actually work if

587
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: it appears that you're going into uh uh anaphylectic shock.

588
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: And he had the wherewithal and thought the interesting thing though,

589
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: is he yet he remains with her? And these electronic

590
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: breadcrumbs forensically that you're talking about, these text messages that

591
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: have come to light now kind of tracking her behavior

592
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: are going to be key because you know, Dave, this

593
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: is not like you know, we cover a lot of

594
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: cases where things happen suddenly and we have these reactive events.

595
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about cases where people just suddenly

596
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: fly off to handle and kill somebody. Dave, That's not

597
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: the kind of case that Corey Richins that this case

598
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: is with Corey Richins, this is something and I think

599
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: this is what the prosecutors are getting at. They're going

600
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 1: to demonstrate a long standing timeline and planning that goes

601
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: into this, and of course you're dealing with issues like

602
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: specific intent and premeditation because you know, she's even got

603
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: peripheral actors that are involved in this through acquisitions of drugs. Housekeepers,

604
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, are making comments about things relative to stronger

605
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: forms of fentanyl. All these sorts of things are going

606
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: to come into play, and it's all going to be

607
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: tied back we geld. You know, Look, they're going to

608
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: talk about toxicology. We're going to be able to see it.

609
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: We'll hear about what it's like to go through an

610
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: overdose with fentanyl, and that's kind of an abstract thing.

611
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: But when the forensic electronic people get on the stand

612
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: and they begin to talk about this, this timeline that

613
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: is tied to this, that's running parallel to it, it's

614
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: going to be very very powerful, and I think it'll

615
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: be very damning. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is

616
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: body Backs