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Speaker 1: M in introduction. That's how we're starting this episode, the

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Speaker 1: word introduction. Thanks, thanks Sophie, thank you for keeping my

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Speaker 1: confidence level high. Also keeping my confidence level high. For

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Speaker 1: part two of our episode on the Net Yahoo Family

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Speaker 1: is Dana Elker. Dana, welcome back, everything, everything, everything going

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Speaker 1: all right. Ten minutes later, uh yeah, yeah, the thing

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Speaker 1: has changed drastically in my life. So it's all good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, these are a day apart, so so

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Speaker 1: things could have changed drastically in the world at the

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Speaker 1: time they dropped. But yeah, really all we did was

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Speaker 1: hopefully not let's all fingers crossed, let's not Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: not so Dana. When we left off, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the Net and Yahoo Boys BB and Yoni. Um.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of pingponging back between the new State of

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Speaker 1: Israel and the United States. You don't really like it

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Speaker 1: in the US. They think it's shallow, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they want to be back in Israel. And they're also

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Speaker 1: frustrated at their dad because he didn't he didn't kill anybody. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: in July of nineteen sixty four, newly adult Yoni went

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Speaker 1: back home. He's an adult in nineteen sixty four, and

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Speaker 1: he joins the I d F. Now he's three years

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Speaker 1: older than BB so Baby is still back in the

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Speaker 1: US doing high school ship UH. Yoni became a paratrooper,

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Speaker 1: which at the time was pretty much the most elite

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Speaker 1: unit in the new military UH. He subsequently went on

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Speaker 1: to train as an officer UH and in general seems

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Speaker 1: to have been a pretty good at being a soldier.

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Speaker 1: Now Yoni's absence was devastating to his younger brother, Bebie

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Speaker 1: would spend almost every one of his summers in Israel,

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Speaker 1: usually alone, because his brother was in the military. He

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Speaker 1: worked part time back in the US on the evenings

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Speaker 1: and weekends so he could afford the air fair to

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Speaker 1: spend every possible moment of his time that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: in school in the US. Back in Israel, he was

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Speaker 1: a good student, but was noted as being very detached

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Speaker 1: from other teenagers. That said, his years in the US

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Speaker 1: did rub off on him, and his friends in Israel

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Speaker 1: noticed that he had adopted an American swagger over the years.

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Speaker 1: While US fashion and pop culture definitely rubbed off on Bab,

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Speaker 1: the politics of his second home did not. So Benjamin

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Speaker 1: spent his teen years in the US during the explosion

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Speaker 1: of the American civil rights movement, you know, Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: King and all that that's all happening in the US,

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Speaker 1: like while he is an adolescent, and the struggle of

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Speaker 1: different groups within the United States to attain equal treatment

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Speaker 1: under the law seems to have completely passed him by.

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Speaker 1: Like his father, Baby disliked most American Jews who were

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Speaker 1: liberal intended to vote Democrat. In fact, the only thing

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Speaker 1: about the United States that he preferred to Israel was capitalism.

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Speaker 1: So which is interesting because Israel in this point is

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Speaker 1: is a quasi socialist state under Mapai right like businesses

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Speaker 1: and whatnot are heavily centralized run by the government. Um,

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Speaker 1: it is not very much like the United States in

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Speaker 1: this period. Um and BB likes all of the things

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Speaker 1: that are militant and austere and and kind of aggressive

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Speaker 1: and and and ethno nationalist about the Israeli state. He

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Speaker 1: hates the socialism. Um, he hates the kibbutz is, which

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Speaker 1: is like kind of one of the things that Americans

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Speaker 1: know broadly Israel has these And it's this aspect of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the Marxists and socialists who were part

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Speaker 1: of the left wroom of the Zionist movement. These these

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Speaker 1: communal farms and like communities and whatnot, where everything is

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Speaker 1: is shared by everybody, I think is the basic idea.

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Speaker 1: This disgusts bb net and Yahoo. From an early age,

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Speaker 1: he fell in love with the writing of Iron Brand,

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Speaker 1: particularly the Fountainhead, which is I know that's the face. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: um bab identified strongly with Howard Rourke, the heroic architect

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Speaker 1: uberman ship the story, and as a result, he decided

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Speaker 1: to get his degree in architecture. I mean, there's so

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Speaker 1: much toxic masculinity, just like for me. And it was

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Speaker 1: entire from pouring off of yeah man. And it's He

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Speaker 1: doesn't talk about iron Rand a lot today because number one,

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Speaker 1: Iron Rand and her philosophy is very anti religious. Um

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Speaker 1: and he a big part of his coalition is religious,

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Speaker 1: so he can't. But like he goes to he goes

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Speaker 1: to M I. T. To get degrees and multiple degrees

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Speaker 1: in architecture because he wants to be Howard Rourke like this.

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Speaker 1: This book has a big influence on the guy. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, you have your informative years during the civil

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Speaker 1: rights era and up pick up Iron Ran. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: and it's it's weird because like Martin Luther King was

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Speaker 1: a big backer of the Israeli state, so it's not

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Speaker 1: like he would have been pushed away from that because

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Speaker 1: the politics of the civil rights movement where anti Israel. Um.

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Speaker 1: He just really likes iron Rand and does not care

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Speaker 1: for social justice. UM. So from nineteen sixty four to

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, violence between Israel and her Arab neighbors

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Speaker 1: accelerated at a steady pace. A joint Arab military command

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Speaker 1: was established, as was the Palestinian Liberation Organization. Israel launched

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Speaker 1: a series of air strikes at Syria. There was this

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Speaker 1: was over dispute over water, like there was Israel was

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Speaker 1: diverting water and Scarria want to divert the water back.

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Speaker 1: I don't I. I don't know a tremendous detail about it.

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Speaker 1: It kind of when you I watched a documentary from

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Speaker 1: Al Jazeera which made it, uh, seemed like the Israelis

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Speaker 1: were sucking around with the water before Syria sucked around

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Speaker 1: with the water. When I heard about this as a kid,

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Speaker 1: it was cereal. Was Syria was trying to stop Israel

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Speaker 1: from having water, and so they had to launch an attack. UM.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on the history UM, but Israel

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Speaker 1: launches a bunch of air strikes into Syria. Palestinian guerrillas

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Speaker 1: launched raids from Syria and Jordan's UM. Israeli paratroopers including Yoni,

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Speaker 1: carried out a brutal raid themselves in late nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: six called Operation Shredder, where they basically blew up a

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Speaker 1: whole town in Jordan's UH. They justified the attack by

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Speaker 1: saying that the town was being used by Palestinian fighters

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Speaker 1: as a base. This raid brought international condemnation, and at

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Speaker 1: the time, the US is not the big military backer

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Speaker 1: of Israel. At this time, it's France. France is giving

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Speaker 1: Israel all of its advanced weapons systems, they're selling it

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Speaker 1: most of its guns UM and France gets angry at

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Speaker 1: Israel over this attack, but they don't stop selling Israel weapons. Now.

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Speaker 1: The United States and the mid sixties kind of started

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Speaker 1: dipping its toes into selling guns to Israel, like not guns,

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Speaker 1: but like aircraft, mainly like modern jet aircraft UM. And

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Speaker 1: it starts under JFK and it escalates under l DJ

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Speaker 1: and it is limited to start with. For one thing,

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Speaker 1: these military aircraft we sell them have certain offensive capabilities

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Speaker 1: removed most of what we sell Israel or anti aircraft missiles,

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Speaker 1: like the the ideas that will sell them defensive equipment,

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Speaker 1: not things that they can attack with. That's not always

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Speaker 1: how it works out in practice. That's the idea that's

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Speaker 1: at least how it's sold to the American people at

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Speaker 1: the start. UM and this series of tip for tap

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Speaker 1: border raids lad in nineteen sixty seven to another war

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Speaker 1: between Israel and all of its neighbors. And this starts

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Speaker 1: with a massive Israeli air attack that wipes out the

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Speaker 1: Syrian UH and Egyptian air forces. UM. And again you

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Speaker 1: can you know, I think the Israeli justification is, well,

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Speaker 1: they were going to attack us, and we had to

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Speaker 1: attack them first. It's a preemptive struct that's a big

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Speaker 1: part of Israeli military doctrine is it's okay for us

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Speaker 1: to attack you first. Um, which again is completely ethically

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Speaker 1: consistent to everything happening now. UM us not at all

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Speaker 1: worth analyzing anyway. So bb Uh lands about a week

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Speaker 1: before the Six Day War in nine seven starts because

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Speaker 1: he wants to see his brother before Yoni goes off

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Speaker 1: to war. Because everybody knows that they're about to start

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Speaker 1: a war. Uh and Yoni spent the Six Day War fighting,

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Speaker 1: while BB spent it in an air raid shelter in Jerusalem.

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Speaker 1: The Six Day War ins and disaster for the Arabs

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Speaker 1: and a shocked victory for israel Um. Jerusalem was now

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Speaker 1: completely under Israeli control, as was a chunk of Syria

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Speaker 1: and a bunch more Palestine, and at the end of

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Speaker 1: the First War, in hundred and fifty thousand Palestinian Arabs

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Speaker 1: had lived within the boundaries of the Israeli state. After

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Speaker 1: the Six Day War, more than one point five million

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Speaker 1: stateless Arabs now lived in under Israeli rule, mostly in

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Speaker 1: East Jerusalem. The best went West Bank and the Gaza

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Speaker 1: strip Um. Now, many Israelis thought that the end of

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Speaker 1: the war would finally bring widespread Arab recognition of their state.

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Speaker 1: There was an assumption among many of the more moderate

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Speaker 1: Zionists that they would have to get up, you know,

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Speaker 1: a sizeable chunk of Palestine for a peace steal, but

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Speaker 1: that this would definitely push for a peace deal. But

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Speaker 1: hardline right wing Zionists, the revisionist guys like Ben Zion

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Speaker 1: thought that not only should they keep all of the

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Speaker 1: Lamb that they'd taken, but they should take more. Babe

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Speaker 1: and Yoni were not super political at this stage, UM,

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Speaker 1: and they both assumed rightly that the end of the

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Speaker 1: Sixth Day War would only set the stage for another conflict.

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Speaker 1: So Beabie had graduated high school right before the Sixth

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Speaker 1: Day War and he joined the I d F immediately after.

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Speaker 1: He was marked out pretty much immediately for his athleticism.

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Speaker 1: He was in great shape and his intelligence to serve

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Speaker 1: in a new special operations unit, the Syrette MTCAL. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend a lot of time in

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Speaker 1: this episode going over military ship um, because that's not

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Speaker 1: why people listen to this podcast. Most Americans. When you

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Speaker 1: learn about Israeli, you learn about it through all these

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Speaker 1: special forces units and these daring air raids and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Which is part of like the inherent sympathy that a

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Speaker 1: lot of Americans have is we just love guns. And

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Speaker 1: if you focus on just the weaponry, it's really easy

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Speaker 1: to just nerd out over different military tactics. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to do that, UM, But to give you

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Speaker 1: an idea of what the Siret Mut called the kind

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Speaker 1: of operations these guys were picked for, I want to

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Speaker 1: read one passage from Anchil Feiffer's b b Um, which

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Speaker 1: is about the the nineteen seventy three Arab Israeli war,

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Speaker 1: about a contingency mission that the Siret matt Call were

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Speaker 1: marked out for. Quote. A mott Call team was to

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Speaker 1: be flown deep into Sinai, where it would lay an

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Speaker 1: object at the top of a remote mountain. The object,

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Speaker 1: a small nuclear device, would be detonated as a running

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Speaker 1: to the Egyptians in the event that they use chemical

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Speaker 1: or biological weapons, bombard at Israeli cities, or simply seemed

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Speaker 1: to be winning the war. So that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of special opsunite. These are the guys

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Speaker 1: who if we start losing a war, they're going to

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Speaker 1: set off a nuke in Egypt. Like, that's the kind

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Speaker 1: of unit that bb Net and Yahoo joins. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: again the whole question of like, I don't even think

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Speaker 1: we absolutely know when the Israelis got their nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: Their policy is one of like nuclear opacity, So they

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Speaker 1: still don't like fully admit to having them, although everyone

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Speaker 1: knows that they do. Um, it's this very like murky anyway,

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Speaker 1: The whole story is a big murky mess that's beyond

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Speaker 1: the confines of this episode. Obviously that mission was never

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Speaker 1: carried out, but the fact that the not called were

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Speaker 1: the guys who would have been called upon to do

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Speaker 1: this shows you the kind of jobs that they did.

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Speaker 1: These are like black ops, wet work guys. And net Yah,

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Speaker 1: who was by all accounts a good soldier. He was

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Speaker 1: noted for a near fanatical level of physical fitness, which

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Speaker 1: made him a natural pick to be the platoons machine gunner.

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Speaker 1: In the years following the Six Day War, Israeli forces

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Speaker 1: continued to battle intermittently in Lebanon and Jordan's In night,

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Speaker 1: they attacked the Beirut airport and retaliation for attacks on

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Speaker 1: Israeli passenger planes, paratroopers were landed in Beirut and fourteen

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Speaker 1: Lebanese airliners were blown up with explosives. The operation was

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Speaker 1: actually much more destructive than the Israeli Prime Minister had

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Speaker 1: approved of, and it infuriated the international community. An emergency

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Speaker 1: session of the UN was called. Now, back in those days,

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Speaker 1: pissing off the UN meant a little bit more than

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Speaker 1: it does now, because it means absolutely nothing now, and

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Speaker 1: France actually stopped selling israel weapons systems after the raid.

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Speaker 1: French President Charles de gaul was enraged that Israel had

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Speaker 1: attacked a foreign airport using French helicopters, and so you

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Speaker 1: don't think too positive. Leave to gall he was mostly

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Speaker 1: angry because the airline that those planes belonged to was

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Speaker 1: largely owned by French investors. Um, and he declared, he's

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Speaker 1: not being a nice guy, but he declares a permanent

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Speaker 1: arms embargo against Israel as a result of this attack. Now,

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Speaker 1: the United States was, however, by this point, waiting on

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Speaker 1: the wings to sell Israel weapons. And again I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go into tremendous detail here because we all

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Speaker 1: know the end result. Since nineteen sixty two, the United

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Speaker 1: States has given Israel more than a hundred billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in military aid UM, which is a lot of dollars

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Speaker 1: in military aid. And Joe Biden's current budget, we're giving

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Speaker 1: them almost three times as much in military aid as

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden is dedicated to spending on climate change. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like our priority. But really, yeah, seems so

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Speaker 1: so cool and good. Bede participated in a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different raids and battles in He's like he does. He's

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Speaker 1: not one of these guys, these politicians who like joins

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Speaker 1: the military and a show dot job. He fights, he

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Speaker 1: does a lot of like sketchy shit, and he was

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Speaker 1: a good enough soldier that he was able to convince

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Speaker 1: his bosses to hire his brother Yoni, to join the

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Speaker 1: sire at Maktal Matt call Sorry. One I d F

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Speaker 1: psychologist who watched the two brothers work together later noted quote,

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Speaker 1: I still remember the look of complete and utter admiration

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Speaker 1: on Babe's face watching Yoni going in. It wasn't the

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Speaker 1: kind of look you see on an adult. It was

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Speaker 1: completely astonishing. And again that's really consistent. He seems to

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Speaker 1: have basically worshiped his older brother. So in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: Golden my Year becomes the Prime Minister of Israel. Now,

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Speaker 1: she was pretty old when she became prime minister. She

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Speaker 1: was kind of one of the last members of the

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Speaker 1: generation of politicians that had been responsible for the founding

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Speaker 1: of Israel. She was suspicious of any attempts at making peace,

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Speaker 1: and she listened too much to her generals. The Israeli

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Speaker 1: military was extremely bullish about continuing to funk with Egypt

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Speaker 1: and to hold on to the territory they'd taken from Egypt.

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Speaker 1: During the previous conflicts, the international community, led by President Nixon,

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Speaker 1: supported a peace plan that would have made Israel return

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Speaker 1: to its pre war borders. My Ear attacked this plan and,

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Speaker 1: under the advice of her generals, escalated what was known

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Speaker 1: as the War of Attrition, which was a series of

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Speaker 1: different kind of insurgent strikes between Israel and her neighbors,

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Speaker 1: and part this issue launches a bunch of air strikes

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Speaker 1: deep into Egyptian territory. Egypt responds by moving anti aircraft

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Speaker 1: missiles close to Israel, and this period of brinksmanship continues

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Speaker 1: until a ceasefire is signed in August of nineteen seventy,

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Speaker 1: and the ceasefire is basically immediately ignored. Um. Nobody really

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Speaker 1: takes this seriously. Now. During this time, a lot of

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Speaker 1: Baby's fellow not call Special Forces operators were actually optimistic

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Speaker 1: that there might be some hope of peace because the

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Speaker 1: international community was increasingly giving behind this idea. And one

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Speaker 1: of the interesting things is that Babe now makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of the fact that he was in the special

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Speaker 1: Forces unit. A ton of the dudes he served with

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Speaker 1: hated him because they're like left wing socialist Zionists. Their

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Speaker 1: kibbutz types. A lot of these special forces guys um,

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Speaker 1: this generation of them, and they were exhausted by years

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Speaker 1: of constant fighting. They wanted some sort of an into

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Speaker 1: the violence. Um. Now that is not the normal opinion

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Speaker 1: within the military establishment. Um all. There are some heads

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Speaker 1: who kind of within the Israeli military warned the things

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Speaker 1: aren't actually looking as good for them as they think.

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Speaker 1: They may have actually not been winning the war of attrition.

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Speaker 1: Baby doesn't believe this. He thinks that he's a you know,

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Speaker 1: a muscular Judaism guy. Um. And he recognized kind of

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Speaker 1: in a fairly savvy manner that the fact that the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union was now funding uh and and providing arms

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Speaker 1: to Egypt, to Lebanon, um would had the chance to

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Speaker 1: turn the conflict into a Cold war proxy fight, and

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Speaker 1: that if Israel kind of stayed the course, the United

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Speaker 1: States would support them because they weren't being backed by

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. And we can turn this. One of

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Speaker 1: the ways in which we can increase our situation here

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Speaker 1: is if we make this into a cold war thing,

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Speaker 1: because then the US will support us out of course,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get all of their fancy as weapons systems

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Speaker 1: which is not a dumb tactic to play um so

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Speaker 1: Angel Fepper writes, quote the Net and Yah, who's had

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Speaker 1: no sympathy for the Palestinians, And one of his letters

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Speaker 1: he only described them as a rabble of cave dwellers

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Speaker 1: fighting for liberty and progress, et cetera. In in another

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Speaker 1: he wrote, my national identity is much stronger than theirs.

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Speaker 1: So these guys are. While a lot of the dudes

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Speaker 1: they served with are more nuanced in their opinions about

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Speaker 1: the conflict and even wanted to come to an end.

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Speaker 1: The Net and Yahoo brothers are let's keep fighting forever

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Speaker 1: kind of guys, or at least let's keep fighting until

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Speaker 1: we have it all. In nineteen seventy two, Babie was

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Speaker 1: wounded during an operation to take back a plane from

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Speaker 1: Palestinian hijackers UM and the way in which he was

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Speaker 1: wounded is interesting. He had grabbed the hair of a

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Speaker 1: female hijacker and her wig had come off in his hand.

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Speaker 1: He grabbed her again and one of his comrades started

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Speaker 1: pistol whipping her face, and this guy's gun went off

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Speaker 1: and shot BB through the arm. So he was shot

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Speaker 1: by what he was shot in combat, but by one

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Speaker 1: of his own dudes, um, who was pistol whipping a

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Speaker 1: lady um, which is I don't know, maybe not as

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Speaker 1: sounds real special forces kind of. This is a very

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Speaker 1: special sophisticated Yeah, yeah, real sophisticated operation when you shoot

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Speaker 1: your buddy to buddy um. So later that year he's

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Speaker 1: discharged from the army. He goes back to the US

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Speaker 1: and he attends M I T to finish his education,

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Speaker 1: and again because of iron Rand, he's working on a

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Speaker 1: degree in architecture. He was studying hard when war broke

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Speaker 1: out again in nineteen seventy three, and the Yom Kipper

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Speaker 1: War was named for the fact that the Egyptian and

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Speaker 1: Syrian forces chose the Jewish High holiday to launch a

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Speaker 1: surprise invasion. UM. In Egypt's case, they motored across the

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Speaker 1: Suez Canal and successfully assaulted and took several Israeli forts.

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Speaker 1: Israel counter attacked with a crack armored division, which was

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Speaker 1: almost completely wiped out because the Soviets that sold Egypt

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Speaker 1: these man portable anti tank rockets, which are kind of

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Speaker 1: the predecessors to the modern wire guided missiles, which is

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Speaker 1: a big factor in the modern Syrian conflict. These back

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Speaker 1: in earlier war is the fact that Egypt had a

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Speaker 1: good armored division had made them kind of unstoppable in

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Speaker 1: open battle. These man portable anti taque missiles really changed

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Speaker 1: the game in a big, fat actor. And the Kipper

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Speaker 1: War is interesting because when I heard about the again

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Speaker 1: as a kid, in US textbooks and in Western documentaries,

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Speaker 1: history channelship, it's depicted as yet another Arab is really

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Speaker 1: war where everybody invades poor Israel and they win because

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Speaker 1: of their superior fighting spirit. That's not the case. This

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Speaker 1: war is not a victory for Israel. Now, Syria definitely

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Speaker 1: lost because a bunch of their dudes got killed and

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Speaker 1: they won nothing. But Egypt, sorry, yeah, go go ahead,

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Speaker 1: go ahead. Sorry. Egypt considers this a win, and kind

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Speaker 1: of rightfully, so they retake some land that they had

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Speaker 1: lost to Israel in prior wars and they fight the

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Speaker 1: Israelis to more or less a draw, which does a

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Speaker 1: lot to restore national pride, because like, there was this

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Speaker 1: idea of Israeli invincibility that gets punctured in a big

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Speaker 1: way during the nineteen seventy three war. So I think,

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Speaker 1: what's what's um important to note about that? You know,

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Speaker 1: the Young War the October War, as as the Arabs

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Speaker 1: call it, um is that Sadat only wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: them to the negotiating table. Yeah, yeah, he so he

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Speaker 1: you know, he's actually quite he's quite heavily criticized after

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Speaker 1: UM and and kind of like the history that's written

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Speaker 1: about this period um because people say, like he held back,

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Speaker 1: he could have taken the entire Sini, but he really

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Speaker 1: just wanted a step towards being able to like you know,

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Speaker 1: quote unquote make peace with the Israelis at this point, Um,

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Speaker 1: even though you know, public opinion has been you know,

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Speaker 1: has become so upset with Israel because of some of

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Speaker 1: the events during the War of Attrition where they like

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Speaker 1: you know, bomb schools and like like the La massacre

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Speaker 1: in Undergold my ear, and like so so public opinion

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Speaker 1: wants said that to take the entire Sini, and they

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Speaker 1: don't want peace with Israel. They just wanted through, you know,

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Speaker 1: through you know, taking back the land and and and

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Speaker 1: just leaving at that said, Dad has a different opinion.

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Speaker 1: He wants a step towards Arab air Israeli normalization essentially,

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Speaker 1: and that is so not how it was portrayed. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a movie. UM. I think it's was The Sum

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Speaker 1: of All Fears, which is the movie is not super

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Speaker 1: about Israel, but it's about like an Israeli nuke gets

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Speaker 1: in the hands of these terrorists and they set it

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Speaker 1: off in the United States, and the way the nuke

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Speaker 1: gets into their hands is during this desperate nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three war, Israel puts a nuke into the air because

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Speaker 1: they think they're about to be overrun and wiped out.

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Speaker 1: And that was never really on the table because, as

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Speaker 1: you said, so Dot didn't want to destroy Israel. He

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Speaker 1: wanted to get them to the negotiating table. And I

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Speaker 1: think there was also an element of like wanting to

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Speaker 1: kind of restore national pride in a sense that like

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Speaker 1: we're not like we don't have to lose to them.

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Speaker 1: Um I A big for me just kind of coming

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Speaker 1: to understand this from I think a more accurate perspective

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Speaker 1: was there's a really good Al Jazeera documentary called The

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Speaker 1: October War um that is I think very fair, and

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Speaker 1: it talks too soldiers. It talks to Israeli and Syrian

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Speaker 1: and Egyptian soldiers. You get a lot of like on

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Speaker 1: the ground perspectives of what has happened. Um, I think it.

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Speaker 1: It really kind of expanded my understanding of what actually

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Speaker 1: happened beyond you know, what American movies had taught me

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Speaker 1: about that conflict, um, which was nothing effectively nothing. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't rely on Hollywood or political education on this one. No, No,

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Speaker 1: you really cannot. Um. So yeah, um, and we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: have a link to that Al Jazeera documentary. It's not

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Speaker 1: super long, but it really is a pretty good historical

404
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Speaker 1: grounding in it. Um. Now, Yoni is in the thick

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Speaker 1: of fighting in nineteen seventy three from the beginning, and

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Speaker 1: BB abandons his coursework in New York and flies back

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Speaker 1: home to pick up a gun and take part in

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Speaker 1: the defense. And kind of the way the Israeli military

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Speaker 1: works in this period is, you know, you do your

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Speaker 1: term of service, you leave, but when the fighting starts,

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Speaker 1: you fly back home and you get handed a gun,

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Speaker 1: like you sign one out, you pick up a uniform

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Speaker 1: and you go fight. Um. And this is the deteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three war is a lot bloodier for for Israel

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Speaker 1: than prior engagements had been. About twenty two hundred Israelis

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Speaker 1: died fighting, which is a not insignificant percentage of the

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Speaker 1: entire population at this point, and it was seen as

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Speaker 1: a disaster from inside the military. Their intelligence network had

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Speaker 1: failed to see the attack coming. There's been a bunch

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Speaker 1: of horrible communications issues, like they had not performed up

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Speaker 1: to the level that they kind of expected. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of it was because they arrogantly assumed they couldn't

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Speaker 1: be attacked and if they were, that they would repulse

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Speaker 1: them at these forts. Um like immediately, Gold of My

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Speaker 1: Year actually resigned at the end of the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three war. Yoni, however, ended the war a national hero

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Speaker 1: due to you know soldier ship Now. Ben Zion wanted

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Speaker 1: both boys to get college degrees. He saw their military

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Speaker 1: exploits as a distraction. UM and BB you know again

430
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: is the guy who's going to do what his father wants.

431
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: He leaves again after the war. He gets back to

432
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: going to M I. T. Yoni, though, seemed to be

433
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: increasingly unable to do anything but soldier. He quits the

434
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: military on at least once um and tries to go

435
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: to school, but he can't really focus. He has trouble

436
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: holding romantic relationships together. He can't really focus on anything

437
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: that isn't fighting UM now. He rose to be one

438
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: of the leaders of the elite sire at Mortcall unit,

439
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: but over the next couple of years he becomes increasingly

440
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: unpopular with his subordinates. He has trouble focusing in meetings.

441
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: There's actually a movement within the unit to fire him,

442
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,639
Speaker 1: and it seems again kind of from the outside that

443
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: he's dealing with severe PTSD and it's kind of breaking

444
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: him as a person. He can't exist as a civilian,

445
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: but he's also increasingly unable to exist as a soldier.

446
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: After the nineteen seventy three war, Babe never really returns

447
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: to the military after this point. He gets a degree

448
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: in architecture. He gets another degree in architecture, but he's

449
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: no good at it, so he gets a business degree

450
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: next UM and largely he seems to find his focus

451
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: as being a campus activist for Israel, fighting to support

452
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: to build US support for Zionism. UM. He's one of

453
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: a small number of Israeli students who are all trying

454
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: to do the same thing, and he stands out. You know, Nathan,

455
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: his dad does that, you know, way earlier, or his

456
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: grandpa and his dad both do that earlier. They don't

457
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: stand out. Guys like Ben Gurion are much more effective.

458
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: Baby stands out as a propagandist for Israel. Like he's

459
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: everyone knows he's a great public speaker. He's good at this. Now.

460
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: For most of Israel's history, leading up to this point,

461
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: the quasi socialist Mapai party had dominated Israeli politics, and

462
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 1: before there was a political into de called Israel, they

463
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: had dominated Zionist politics. This changed in the nineteen seventies

464
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: when the nach And beg him that begin that i

465
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: c L leader. We talked about an episode one started

466
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: to weld together. Weld together a coalition of secular right wingers,

467
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: disaffected liberals like neoliberals who didn't like Mapai, and right

468
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: wing religious extremists into an opposing electoral block. And as

469
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: is always the case when you tie the centrist right

470
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: to the far right, politics are more dominated by the

471
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: far right than anything else. Of course, the far right

472
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: doesn't see it that way. They think that we're compromising,

473
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: but everyone else winds up compromising with the far right.

474
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: It's the way it always especially because in the Israeli's

475
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: system is like it's a parliamentary system system that they

476
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: become kind of like, you know, I'm not I'm not

477
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: an expert on politics, but you know I've been told

478
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: that become kind of like kingmakers in this kind of system. Yes,

479
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: and this is when that really starts, because they've been

480
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: very like on the fringes of things up to this point.

481
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: In September of nineteen seventy three, right after the war,

482
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: that the Coud party was born. Now, the Likud party

483
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: is the party that not that is net Yahoo's party today,

484
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: it's the right wing coalition in Israel. UM. While all

485
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: this was going on, is reelly u s relations were

486
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: hitting a low point. Gerald Ford tried his hand bringing

487
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: peace to the Middle East. But if you know anything

488
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: about gerald Ford, nothing he did ever worked. UM. Israel

489
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: was not willing to make concessions during this peace process,

490
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: and so he froze arms sales to Israel. A compromise

491
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: was eventually reached, which involved Israel pulling soldiers back from

492
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: Egypt and exchange from more guns from the United States.

493
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: And the fact that the US had been willing to

494
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: stop selling weapons to Israel terrified Israeli's and it sparked

495
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: an understanding that they were going to have to make.

496
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: They were going to have to carry out a more

497
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: active PR operation in the United States to make the

498
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: idea of a U. S President stopping arms sales to

499
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Israel unthinkable. Right, they get and you can say Ford's

500
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: not really playing hardball here. He folds almost immediately when

501
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 1: they make a minor concession. But to Israeli's it's this

502
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: idea like, oh, he even he was willing to threaten

503
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: to stop selling this guns. We have to make sure

504
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: this can't happen again. Now, doing that was going to

505
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 1: require an unprecedented PR blitz, and baby Net and Yahoo

506
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 1: wound up on the ground floor of it. In nineteen

507
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: seventy five, he was sent by the Israeli Console to

508
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: do a series of speaking engagements on local TV stations.

509
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: He was a natural, but it was going to take

510
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: something else to make him into a star. The death

511
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: of his brother Yoni July four, nineteen seventy six, is

512
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: really Commandos and Kenyan soldiers carried out a raid on

513
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: the Entebbe airport in Uganda, where another Israeli passenger plane

514
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: had been hijacked. Yoni was the only Israeli to die

515
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: in this rate. Now why is heavily debated today there's

516
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: evidence that Yoni acted against orders and opened fire too

517
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: early and he was shot down as a result of it.

518
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: People will literally fight over this because after his death,

519
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: Yoni becomes a heroic cult figure in Israel, and so

520
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: the idea again critiquing him in any way becomes like

521
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: verbot into a sizeable chunk of Israel now. The net

522
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: and yah Who family obviously has a huge fested interest

523
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: in the hero cult that forms around Yoni, to the

524
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: point where they argue that he was shot dead by

525
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: the German commander of the hijackers and not by a

526
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: Ugandan soldier, which is much more likely, and Angel Feffer

527
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: writes that this suggests to some that quote the family

528
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: felt that being felled by an inferior African soldier was

529
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: somehow a lesser way to die, So like, that's that's

530
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: literally the thought that entered my mind. I was like, Wow,

531
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: they can't even be killed by a black personally, and

532
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: I can't even be killed by a black person. No

533
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: um now and Yoni's letters and also this in Tebbi raid,

534
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: like there's horrific consequences, including the fact that Idi Amine,

535
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: who's the press into Uganda, massacres a bunch of Kenyans

536
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: because of the fact that they helped participate in this raid.

537
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: After the raid goes on, it's a whole, whole, ugly mess.

538
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: Yoni's letters after his death are published as a book,

539
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: um and there are books written about his fateful last battle.

540
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: There have been movies made again. This guy is like

541
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: a national hero. And as soon as he dies, ben

542
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: Zion and Benjamin do double duty becoming evangelists for Yoni's memory.

543
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: His dad, who had not approved of his military career

544
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: and had like really been kind of disappointed in Yoni,

545
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: becomes his biggest cheerleader after his death and and tries

546
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: not just to make him to a war hero, but

547
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: like a philosopher, hero warrior guy um. And to this day,

548
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: Israeli politicians and lobbyists who want FaceTime with Beebe will

549
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: make a point of visiting Yoni's grave. It's understood if

550
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: you do that, Bebe will sit down with you in person.

551
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: You know, or at least it improves your odds. You

552
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: know who won't sit down in person with Benjamin Netanya?

553
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: Who that's boy boy, oh boy, Jesus Christ um not

554
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. Oh yeah, that's that's probably true. Um, he

555
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: was definitely more of a turn the other cheek kind

556
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: of guy. And you know who else turns the other cheek,

557
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: Sophie to really hope is that Dick Bill's ad I

558
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: hope so too, because that would be really funny. Let's

559
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: keep our fingers crossed for Dick Bills, folks. All right,

560
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: we're back. Um. So the reality of the situation again,

561
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: this hero colt around Yoni forms that he's like this

562
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: great warrior, great philosopher. He dies valiantly fighting in this

563
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: incredible raid. The reality of the situation is that he

564
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: was a pretty broken man by the time he got killed,

565
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: and he probably there's a good chance he got killed

566
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: because of he'd been increasingly erratic in his behavior. That's

567
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: why a lot of his his subordinates were like, we

568
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: need to get this guy out of the unit because

569
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: we can't rely on him and he screws up on

570
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: the battlefield. The last letter he writes to his girlfriend

571
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: before his death revealed deep depression in trauma. It ended

572
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: with the words stop the world, I want to get

573
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: off like he is in a bat. He probably shouldn't

574
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: have been taking part in military actions. Um at the

575
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: time at which he died Um, and again there's something

576
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: to be said about kind of the the fact that

577
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: trauma and stuff was not being properly addressed here. Max Hastings,

578
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: a British journalist, was contracted by the net Yahoo family

579
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: to write a book about Yoni, and the Israeli state

580
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: gave him unprecedented access to the military, to people who

581
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: served with Yoni to write this book. Hastings does intense

582
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: research on this, and he walks away very critical of

583
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: the net Yahoo family. While ben Zion tried to convince

584
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: him that Yoni had been a soldier and an intellectual titan,

585
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: Hastings concluded that Yoni had been quote a troubled young

586
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: man of moderate intelligence, striving to come to terms with

587
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: intellectual concepts behind his grasp, who had been attively disliked

588
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: by more than a few of his men. The book

589
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: itself was a disaster. Hastings um writes a book. They

590
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: hate it. They have to massively edit it in order

591
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: to publish it. Hastings fights them on this, but in

592
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: the end he lets them do it because he's not

593
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: going to get paid otherwise, and he winds up very

594
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: angry about this whole situation. He never visits It's Real again.

595
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: Years later, he writes memoirs where he talks about the

596
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: process of writing this shitty book, and it includes some

597
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: scathing indictments of ben Zion and Bbe. He describes Benjamin

598
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: as a slick, humorless marketing man and includes this quote

599
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: from one of their conversations. In the next war, if

600
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: we do it right, we'll have a chance to get

601
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: all the Arabs out, he said. We can clear the

602
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: West Bank, sort out Jerusalem. He joked about the Golani Brigade,

603
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: the Israeli infantry force, in which so many men were

604
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: North African or Yemenite Jews. They're okay as long as

605
00:31:53,400 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: they're led by white officers, he grinned. So heys, thanks, hey, yeah, yeah,

606
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: scans now. When Babe returned to the US, he took

607
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: a job with the Boston Consulting Group, which is a

608
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: stuper prestigious They send in you know, they're one of

609
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: those your business isn't doing as well as you want,

610
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: you send in guys from the Boston Consultant Group. They

611
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: make your business more profitable. It's one of those things.

612
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: His coworker is Mit Romney. Like he and Romney are

613
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: employed with the same company at the same time. Now,

614
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: the difference is they is just like, yeah, I mean,

615
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: Romney plays this up a lot later because obviously US

616
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: Conservatives always need to be super pro Israel. The truth

617
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: is they barely knew each other. Romney was really good

618
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: at this job. Bbie was not like, he wasn't bad,

619
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: but he just like didn't stand out in the company.

620
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: And Romney is kind of like a star employee. Um.

621
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: And basically bb does not like working for Boston Consulting

622
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: because he's a small fish and a mitt Romney sized pond. Uh.

623
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: And he finds himself increasingly drawn to the work that

624
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: he was doing lecturing about his dead brother two different

625
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: groups of wealthy American Jews. When he was doing that,

626
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: he was special, he was the center of attention. When

627
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: he's at Boston Consulting, he's just kind of a mid

628
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: level employee. Bb drifted more and more towards politics, while

629
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: over in Israel, the right wing descendants of the Revisionist

630
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: Zionists finally won an election. Manachan Beggin's Liquid Party finally

631
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: broke the Labor Party, but as a conciliatory gesture, begin

632
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: keeps a lot of the old Mapai people in power,

633
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: which infuriates BB. The right wingers big and did see

634
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: fit to bestow political gifts on we're again old iz

635
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: L veterans. So he does not give anything to the

636
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: net and Yahoo's, even though they're more prominent by this point. Um.

637
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: And of course, part of why BBI doesn't get any

638
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: kind of position in this administration is he never spent

639
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: any time as an adult citizen of Israel. He had

640
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: fought in the military, but every time he wasn't serving,

641
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: he'd gone back to the United States. And that's one

642
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: of the things about BB. There's no period of time

643
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: that significant where he's like a civilian adult living in

644
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: Israel and not either an elected leader or a soldier.

645
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: You know. Um, he spends up most of his civilian

646
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: adult years in the United States. He gets married in

647
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: the United States, although the Union broke apart in the

648
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: late seventies because he cheated on his wife le she

649
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 1: was pregnant, she dumped him. He's a big sad guy

650
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: for a while. Uh. He spends his time flitting between

651
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: Boston and Jerusalem, mostly miserable his own soul. Only soulis

652
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: were the moments of prominence that he gained as one

653
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: of US TVs go to Israelis. In June of nine,

654
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: he participated in a panel about self determination for Palestinians.

655
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: He said that they shouldn't have any arguing that any

656
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Palestinian state would be a PLO state. And he's by

657
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: by that he means, you know, a terrorist state. That's

658
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: what he means by it. Now. During this period, there

659
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: were a couple of different wings of the Palestinian resistance

660
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 1: in Israel. Uh. The PLO was broadly secularist. The FATA

661
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: party are leftist, and then of course there's the Islamists,

662
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: and there's a couple of different Islamist groups. The biggest

663
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: one comes to be Hamas And everyone listening knows how

664
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: moss you hear about them whenever we talk about like

665
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: fighting in in in Palestine hem us, you know, in

666
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: the rockets and stuff. So man I just interject, yes,

667
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: please please, for the love of God. Yeah, So the

668
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: the Palestine the Rational Organization is an umbrella organization and

669
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: incorporates a couple of different groups. You mentioned that there's

670
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: like the Palestine uh uh from from sorry, the Popular

671
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: Front for the Liberation of Palestine. So like a couple

672
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: of different groups, some left this, some centrist whatever the is,

673
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: the isn't this groups are not part of the PILO.

674
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: They emerge uh much later um as like militant groups um,

675
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: particularly during the first in the fol though, so we're

676
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: talking like in late nineteen eighties, um, and they do

677
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: not join the pillow. There's there's still not a part

678
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: of the plow. There's been some discussion, but there. Yeah,

679
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of separate. Yeah, I should have been clear.

680
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to say they were part of the PELO.

681
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: I was just trying to like, that's like the Palestinian resistance.

682
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: There's different kind of like chunks, right, yeah. And and

683
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: but it's interesting he called them like a Plo nation

684
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, the Palo state because in his

685
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: in his older age as Prime Minister um he would

686
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: refer to you know, some future Palestinian state as a

687
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Hamastan since the POLO now is which you know, since

688
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: the Polo now is like a more legitimate, yeah, you know,

689
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: organization that's accepted as the representative of the Palestinian people.

690
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: Now it's that's the boogyman. They're already become hamas Stan.

691
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm very grateful to you, because this is again one

692
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: of the when I talked about like the complexity that

693
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: like makes people like me kind of scared to cover this.

694
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: It's that stuff. It's like, oh God, like how it's

695
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: going to take so long to get to to gain

696
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: like a more competent understanding. Um. So it's kind of

697
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: like the left of Brian, you know, like you have

698
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: like so so it's fine that you know, so it's

699
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: fine that you don't know the little inns and ut. Yeah, God,

700
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: that is a that is a good way to compare it.

701
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: I think that was yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean yeah,

702
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: I think you're probably right. Um. Now, one of the

703
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: things that's interesting to me because again net Yah, who

704
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: demonizes Hamas, which is not to say that like I

705
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: think Hamas is an organization that doesn't do funked up shit, um,

706
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: but they get sort of, especially in the US media,

707
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: they're these like rocket wielding terrorist boogeyman. And I think

708
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting to note that in the late nineteen seventies,

709
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: a big part of why Hamas gains power is that

710
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: they are being funded by the Israeli government as a

711
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: way to split the Palestinian opposition. And I'm gonna quote

712
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: from a write up in the Intercept by Mattia Hassan.

713
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: Brigadier General Yitzak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor

714
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: in Gaza in the early nineteen eighties. Uh seg Of

715
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: told later told a New York Times reporter that he

716
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a counterweight

717
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: to the secularists and leftists of the Palestinian Liberation Organization

718
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: and the FATA party led by Yasser Arafat, who himself

719
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: referred to Hamas as a creature of Israel. The Israeli

720
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: government gave me a budget, the retired brigadier general confessed,

721
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: and the military government gives it to the mosques. Hamas,

722
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: to my great regret, is Israel's creation. Avner Cohen, a

723
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for

724
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: more than two decades, told The Wall Street Journal in

725
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,959
Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Back in the mid nineteen eighties, Cohen

726
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them

727
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: not to play divide and rule in the occupied territories

728
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. I suggest focusing

729
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster

730
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: before this reality jumps in our faces. He wrote, Yeah, yeah,

731
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: I mean, like of course, like the way that they

732
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: will view their own history and their own impact is

733
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: that there, you know, they might outsize their role. In

734
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: this particular case, there was the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine

735
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: that what you know, was supported and not repressed necessarily

736
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: by the Israeli state because it did not advocate for

737
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: any kind of existance. They're like, well, just religious, like

738
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, we're just gonna have to work on our

739
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: own selves and like fix our souls. And you know

740
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like they were kind of like a

741
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: demobilizing force. Yeah, and they kind of like help you know,

742
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 1: didn't didn't repress them, help them along. A little bit

743
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: later on, um, there he mess split off from like

744
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: the you know, proper Muslim brotherhood because they wanted to resist.

745
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: They wanted to resist because they were like, we're losing

746
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: the public here, Like people don't take us seriously. There's

747
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: like all this like repression and violent repression you know,

748
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: from the Israeli side onto Palestinians, and we're just sitting

749
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: here talking about our religious souls and religious you know

750
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: what I mean, So we should probably just something about that.

751
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I just wanted to interject their Yeah no,

752
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: I mean that's yeah, thank you. Um. And it's like

753
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: it is, it is this thing you don't want to

754
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: like obviously providing funds as a part to split the

755
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: movement to say that, like I don't want to like

756
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: say that, like, oh, it was just all this Israeli

757
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: scheme and that's where we get hamas because that's not

758
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: at all accurate and fucked up and it denies people

759
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: of agency. I think what's more interesting is that you

760
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: can you can draw a direct line between what Great

761
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: Britain is doing with the Haganah um in the in

762
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: the thirties and what Israel tries to do in this period.

763
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: It's this it's this colonialism thing where okay, we have

764
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: this opposition. If they're united, that's a problem for us.

765
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: Let's split divisions and we'll pick one side and back

766
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: them against the others. And like that is it's this

767
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: thing that colonial powers always do. Um, because it works

768
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: pretty well. Um, although there's you know, always unforeseen consequences

769
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: to it as well. Um. Anyway, Yeah, in nineteen seventy

770
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: nine BB and ben zion Net and Yah who created

771
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: the Jonathan Institute named after Yoni Yoni Yonatan Jonathan Like

772
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: it's spelled Yonatan, he's Jonathan, He's called Yoni. That's the

773
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like Benjamin. Like I think they

774
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: actually spelled like the anglicit causation is usually spelled bin

775
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: humin um when it's not being like anyway, it's beside

776
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: the win um. So the Jonathan Institute, which is you know,

777
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: led by Baby and his dad, hold a big international

778
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: symposium on terrorism in nineteen nine, which was attended by

779
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: multiple Israeli presidents and prime ministers, as well as former

780
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: CIA Director George W. Bush H. W. Bush. The you know,

781
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: the groping one um and the war cry, but they're

782
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: both the war crying one. That doesn't really separate them

783
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: in any way. Um, not the cocaine one. Not the

784
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: cocaine Bush the other Bush. So basically everyone who attended

785
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: this big symposium is a right winger. There are no

786
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,399
Speaker 1: non white voices really, um, there are no voices who

787
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: are liberal or leftist. There's certainly no Muslim voices. And

788
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: this represents one of the first concerted efforts by the

789
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: Israelis to spin their struggles with Palestinians as part of

790
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: an international battle against terror that the West is also

791
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: a part of the big message of the conference is

792
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: that insurgents fighting political powers are terrorists, not freedom fighters.

793
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: Their causes are fundamentally legitate, illegitimate and can't be debated.

794
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: Since this is the Cold War, Palestinian groups and other

795
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 1: so called terrorists where all the fault of the U.

796
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: S s are And at that point, they're trying to

797
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 1: fold in Israel's fight with Palestine into the global Cold War.

798
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: And this conference is often kind of over emphasized and

799
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: it's importance. But what's important is we see this as

800
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: the start of a conserted strategy, that being who is

801
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: at the center of to tie in UM the Israeli

802
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: fight against Palestinians into and to find a way to

803
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: tie that into whatever the US is struggling against at

804
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: the moment. And I seen seventy nine, it's communism. Post

805
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: two thousand one, it will be terrorism, you know, but

806
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the same basic strategy UM that will

807
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: be the blueprint for the next forty years of Israeli diplomacy.

808
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: As as regards the West. And it's an it's an

809
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: effective strategy. It's an effective way of framing what is

810
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: really an ethnic cleansing as a battle against terrorism because

811
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: you can rope in all of these other powers on

812
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: your side. Um, and it it works. It's a it's

813
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: an effective strategy. UH. In nineteen eighty, the Knnesset passed

814
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: the and that's like the Israeli Congress basically parliament like whatever,

815
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: UM passed the Jerusalem Law, which claimed that the entire city,

816
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: which again Israel is occupying all of Jerusalem, that's in

817
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: violation of international law and that they're they've been doing

818
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: this for decades. At this point, UM, the Jerusalem Law,

819
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: they claim the whole city is part united under Israeli

820
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: sovereignty and direct again direct um opposition to international law begins.

821
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: Right wing government made peace with Egypt a little earlier,

822
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 1: but after that, UM, and and so it begins, government

823
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: like makes kind of peace with Israel. That's this big

824
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: kind of moment of hope. UM. And then immediately after

825
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: that they make this hard right turn because they've kind

826
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: of you know, Okay, we've made peace with one of

827
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: our enemies. Now we can swing hard to the right

828
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: and start pleasing the far right. That's why they passed

829
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: the Jerusalem Law. Um. Begin bombs Iraq after this, which

830
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: is in violation of international law to take out a

831
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: nuclear power plant. Um. And this kind of marks the

832
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: establishment of the Begin Doctrine uh in, which basically is

833
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: Israel declaring that Arabs are never allowed to have atomic weapons. Um.

834
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: That's that's the the the big foreign policy thing that

835
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: Begin establishes in this period in the early nineteen eighties. Well,

836
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: this is going on. Net and Yah who gets a

837
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: job with the Israeli Embassy working as a pr man

838
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: for the country in an official capacity, and he's very

839
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: effective in this role. He charms New York's media elite,

840
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: he charms DC politicians. Uh. He gives quotes to every

841
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: major news organization on every development in Palestine. Since he

842
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: speaks flawless English and is charming, he becomes a fixture

843
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: on daytime television. When Hezbla blew up a US marine

844
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: barracks and by route by was able to shove himself

845
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: into close contact with George Schultz, who's the Secretary of

846
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: State at this point, is also a former investor in

847
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: theomus um and uh yeah, he's he's and again one

848
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: of the reasons why Israeli foreign policy takes the role

849
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: it is and is so successful in getting the US

850
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: to back whatever it does is they've got BB who

851
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: is very effective, who is basically an American in a

852
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and it's very effective at talking to

853
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: Americans and getting them on his side. And there's no

854
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: equivalent of that for the Palestinians. UM certainly not that

855
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: has the kind of media um attention that BB is

856
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: successful in getting. I don't want to overstate his role,

857
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: but it's significant in this period. Um Manak and Began

858
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: retired in nineteen eighty three, leaving no obvious successor to

859
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: the head of the revisionist cause. Begin had welded together

860
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 1: a powerful right wing electorate, contemptuous of any compromise with Arabs,

861
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: and dead certain that Jerusalem was There's forever. For a

862
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: while he was followed by a formal I l fighter,

863
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: Jetsak Schmir. But yet Zac was not a great politician,

864
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 1: and he wound up stalemateing with Labor in nineteen eighty four,

865
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: and so both parties share power. They split prime ministership

866
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: over the next four years. For BB, the main benefit

867
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: of the schmir years is that he was ambassador, and

868
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: he got to spend the next couple of years constantly

869
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: taking the podium at the UN to attack different Arab leaders.

870
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: He spent the late eighties building his power within Israeli politics,

871
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: within international politics, and inside the media. He becomes a

872
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: regular guest on Larry King Live. He and Larry King

873
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: are good buddies. Larry King famously says that as a

874
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: guest he's an eight and if he had a sense

875
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: of humor, he'd be aten um, which kind of a

876
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: back ended government. But okay, Larry is not the person

877
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: to talk about. No, he's sure. He's sure as ship

878
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: Isn't you know who is funnier than Larry King. Yeah,

879
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: they're there. I mean Larry probably needs them. Um, he's dead,

880
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 1: Robert all the more recent, Well, baby's still alive. That's

881
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: not ideal. We're back, okay, so uh bb gets made

882
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: an ambassador, he's on TV, he's doing Larry King. And

883
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties seven, while Bebe is hob nobbing and

884
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: forcing his second wife Fleur to convert formally to Judaism

885
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: so he could become a prime minister, and she was Jewish,

886
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: she was but she was half Jewish and Orthodox Jews

887
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: didn't consider her Jewish enough, so she had to do

888
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: this big public conversion process. Um and Like one of

889
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: the stories that she'll tell is that like she would

890
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: often have to like stop Bebi from like eating bacon

891
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: and stuff because he's not super religious, right, But he's

892
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: got to because of the people he wants to play too.

893
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: He's got to play to that crowd, so he makes

894
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: her convert in anyway. Well, all this is going on

895
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: because he's getting ready to try to become prime minister,

896
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: the first into Fata begins. This is not something we're

897
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: gonna give as much to tail as it deserves. Um.

898
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: The thing usually given as the cause of the into

899
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: fata was the killing of four Palestinian civilians by an

900
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: Israeli jeep on the Gaza Strip at a checkpoint. This

901
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: brings out protesters. Uh an Israeli officer fires into a

902
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: crowd of protesters. He's kills a seventeen year old. Um

903
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: and it starts this massive resistance movement. UM and I

904
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: found a good source on the website American Muslims for

905
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: Palestine that argues that the real cause of the Indifatah

906
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: is decades of building oppression and discontent. Quote, A whole

907
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: generation of Palestinians had never known anything other than occupation.

908
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: That occupation had made them economically dependent on Israel. Not

909
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: only did they have to put up with being treated

910
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: like inferiors and prisoners in their own homeland, but they

911
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: were also grossly exploited for their labor. They were paid

912
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: half the wages of Israeli workers, they were taxed higher,

913
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: they had few benefits, and they were without job security

914
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: because official Israeli policy denied them any rights within Israel.

915
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: Many Palestinians were employed without the required work permits, which

916
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: put them in an even more tenuous situation. They, like

917
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: any other people, wanted to be free from Israel's tyranny.

918
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: Like any other people, they wanted to resist the force

919
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: being used against them, but without an organized resistance movement,

920
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: they were powerless to challenge the occupation itself. The more

921
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: dependent they were, the more the occupation became entrenched, and

922
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 1: the more Israel profited. Beneath the surface, though their discontent

923
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: was seething, Palestinians were also seeing their confiscated land being

924
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: illegally settled by Jewish foreigners who were allowed to carry

925
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: machine guns and were protected by the Israeli army when

926
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: they used them to terrorist terrorize Palestinian families. These families

927
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: were constantly under threat, not only for continuing to live

928
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: on their own land and properties, but also for any

929
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: outward expression of their cultural identity or nationalist feelings. Anything

930
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: that was deemed pro Palestinian was forbidden or destroyed. The

931
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: word Palestine was expunged from textbooks, and any products marked

932
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: as Palestinian where relabeled as Israeli. Literature, art, music, and

933
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: other activities that encouraged a national consciousness were subject to attack.

934
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: In universities were often closed for long periods because they

935
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: were seen as fomenting nationalist fervor. And yeah, yeah, yeah,

936
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean the first of the father definitely like you know,

937
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: erupted because of years of oppression. Um. And because at

938
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: the time there wasn't the the segregation walls. They were

939
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: used as kind of cheap labor much more commonly than

940
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: they are today. Um even then that still continues today.

941
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: But really the Palestinians have a history of mass mobilization

942
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: like they you know did um, like with the Balfour

943
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: decoration when when Balfour came to visit the Holy Land.

944
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: They did a strike that was like, um, they do

945
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: these marches, they do these protests even under you know,

946
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: Israeli occupation after nineteen sixty seven in the West Bank

947
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: and Gaza, there were like kind of cycles of like protests.

948
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: None of them reached the level of a mass at

949
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: the FOLDO, but like it had it had always been

950
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: kind of the case because as you mentioned, like it's

951
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: not like they you know, obviously the PLO has weapons

952
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: and things like that, but that's kind of outside the territories.

953
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: It's not fully you know, um present in the territories

954
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 1: at this point, and um that this is how they

955
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: can kind of challenge the Israeli state. And then with

956
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: the INTFOD that there was this spark of like popular

957
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: outrage and so the Palestinian kind of like intelligence here

958
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: are like the you know, political leadership that they might

959
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: have been like in medical associations, professional associations, not necessarily

960
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: political groups, but they arose the occasion. They created an

961
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: unifiational leadership of the uprising um and then they started

962
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: to kind of coordinate the mass mobilizations and say like

963
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: on this day we will do a strike. Yeah, on

964
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: this day, we will do, uh, you know, a boycott whatever. Um.

965
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and that's a big part. There's there's boycotts,

966
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: there's like mass refusal to pay taxes, and there's like

967
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: the kind of attendant these mobile clinics and mutual aid

968
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: projects to support these activists to the thing that I

969
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: think foreigners, if they've heard of the into FATA, like Americans,

970
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: the image is like shirtless Palestinian boys with rocks and

971
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: slings going up against tanks, right, Like those are like this,

972
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: and that's like a a part of it. Like that's

973
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: the image that certainly goes viral. And one of the things, um,

974
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: that is kind of one of the things that happens

975
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: internationally here is that these images of of kids with

976
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: rocks going up against tanks kind of helps to start

977
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: puncture the international image Israel had very carefully cultivated as

978
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: an underdog constantly beset by powerful foes because you know,

979
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: and again this is my education on this is Israel. Oh,

980
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: everyone keeps invading them, all of these countries at once,

981
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: and they fight them off and then suddenly you're seeing, well, no,

982
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: they're driving tanks against seventeen year olds with rocks like

983
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: that doesn't that they don't seem to be the underdog here. Um. Now,

984
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: of course that is again I think kind of internationally

985
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: has a big impact. One of the arguments I all

986
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: hear is that the thing that actually scared the Israeli

987
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: government was what you were talking about, the mass social disobedience,

988
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: the boycott's, the refusal to pay taxes, which obviously has

989
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: a lot more effect than anything else. Um. And from

990
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: that right up I quoted earlier quote. To quell it,

991
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: Israel report resorted to punishing the Palestinian population and moss.

992
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: Ordinary citizens found themselves without power to pursue even the

993
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: most routine daily activities. Curfews were ordered for weeks on end,

994
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: thousands of Palestinians were arrested. With the closure of schools

995
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: and universities, education effectively became illegal, and teachers and students

996
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: had to resort to underground classes. Homes were demolished without warning,

997
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: Alive trees and agricultural crops were destroyed. Vital water supplies

998
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: were redirected to Israel, and then waters usage restricted so

999
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: severely people had to queue with containers for hours to

1000
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: buy back their own water. I was born during the Intifada,

1001
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: actually uh, and my parents have like memories of um,

1002
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, because of the curfew, they're not able to

1003
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: go out, and I needed formula, and like you know,

1004
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: massed Um activists would try to drop it off, you know, regularly,

1005
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: so that like I wouldn't starve essentially, And that was

1006
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: the case for you know, most of Palestinian society. That

1007
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: never ending curfews, the the severe repression, the break the

1008
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: bones policy. Meet zak Rabine was the Defense minister at

1009
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: the time, and he basically gave they go to, you know,

1010
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: the green light for the Israeli soldiers too if they

1011
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: saw m Pastinia processors or like Palestinian voice throwing rocks

1012
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: or something to like make them pay for it by

1013
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: literally like holding them down and using rocks to smash

1014
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: their bones, um, like their elbows and things like that.

1015
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: And it was kind on camera because you know, at

1016
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: that time, we're you know, we've got cameras to show

1017
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 1: these things. Yeah, so um, yeah, it was pretty brutal. Yeah,

1018
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: just I mean outrageously so. And I think one of

1019
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: the things I've read recently that was really starring it's

1020
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: just on the subject of water um Palestine, like in

1021
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: Gaza and the West Bank has some of the worst

1022
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: water quality in the world. Um like very like like

1023
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: very like poisonously bad water in terms of like the

1024
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: water that Palestinians have access to. But it gets more

1025
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 1: rain the West Bank, and it gets more rain than like, um,

1026
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: some parts of the Pacific Northwest, and a lot of

1027
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: that water goes directly to Israel. Like that that's like

1028
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: not yeah, there's there's a huge like it's a concerted

1029
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: effort to kind of like you know, create a fifth

1030
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: false drout. Yes, a false drout. That's a good way

1031
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: of putting it. And yeah, you brought up the breaking

1032
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: of bones, which happens under rabine. Um. And this this,

1033
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: the fact that footage of this gets out is a

1034
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 1: real pickle for a PR guy like bb net and

1035
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: Yahoo um, because his his whole job is to get

1036
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: on TV and say that like, we're just defending ourselves.

1037
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: The Palestinians are trying to destroy all of Israel. And

1038
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: then you see I d F guys breaking teenagers bones

1039
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: with rocks, and um, that doesn't look like an existential

1040
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: struggle for Israel. It just looks like thuggery because that's

1041
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: what it is. Um and bb leaves his job at

1042
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: this point because he's like, I can't. I'm not I'm

1043
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: not getting on board. I'm not. I'm not gonna like

1044
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 1: screw my career over by trying to defend this um.

1045
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: And before he heads back to Israel, because he's he

1046
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: decides he's going to start his iCal Career's gonna stop

1047
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: being a pr guy because the Intifat has made that

1048
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: a rough task. Um, He's going to go back home

1049
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,760
Speaker 1: and get into politics. And before he goes back to Israel,

1050
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: he has a series of meetings with Republican Party political

1051
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: strategist where he gets advice on how to run for office.

1052
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: And he goes back to Israel and he starts his

1053
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: campaigning as a politician. Now, he initially denied that he

1054
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: had any desire to become a prime minister because his

1055
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: party was already in power, so that would have meant

1056
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: saying like I want to take over for you know,

1057
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: um shamir um. But he runs for and he wins

1058
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: a seat in the Knesset Um and he's too much

1059
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: of a new man for the party leadership to give

1060
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: him a good position, so he had to make a

1061
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: position for himself. And the way he does this is

1062
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: that in the Intifada goes on for almost six years, right,

1063
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 1: it's like five years, nine months something like that. Yeah,

1064
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: So what he does during the Intifada when he's new

1065
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: to the Knesset every time in Israeli because you know,

1066
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: there are reprisal attacks on Israeli Jewish citizens during this period.

1067
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: Every time that happens, he goes to the hospital, he

1068
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 1: meets with the victim or the family of the victim,

1069
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: and he demands that the international media give equal coverage

1070
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,720
Speaker 1: to Jewish victims. Now, this is a problem because during

1071
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: the course of the into Fata six years, almost two

1072
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven Israelis, a hundred and seventy five

1073
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: of them civilians are killed. That's not good, but more

1074
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 1: than three hundred Palestinians were killed during the first year

1075
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: of the into Fata. More than sixteen hundred were killed

1076
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: by Israelis by the time the violence of side in

1077
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds and one. Swedish NGO estimates that

1078
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: between twenty three thousand, six hundred and twenty nine thousand,

1079
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: nine hundred Palestinian children required medical treatment for beating injuries

1080
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: during the first two years of the Intifada. One third

1081
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: of these children were under the age of ten, which

1082
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: again is the problem with the whole equal coverage thing.

1083
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: Um is, it makes it and BB is smart by

1084
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: doing this, it makes it into this. Oh well, we

1085
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: have victims too. There's violence on both sides, which is

1086
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: the continual story of the Israeli Palestinian conflicts. Like, well,

1087
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: but look at how lopsided the violence is. Look at

1088
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 1: how lopsided the death toll is twenty nine thousand palaces.

1089
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: Israeli kids aren't being hospitalized for beatings during this period. Um, Yeah,

1090
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: I mean both size is um is like yeah, like no,

1091
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: no recognition of like power and balance, yes, exactly. Or

1092
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, the attacks on Israeli civilians

1093
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: are largely in desperation for attacks these Reeli state is

1094
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: carrying out on Palestinian civilians. Um. And the fact that like,

1095
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: one of the things people will say is that like, well, okay,

1096
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: nothing being done to the Palestine has justifies terrorism against Israelis.

1097
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, but the Israeli government has embarked in

1098
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: a consistent policy of collective punishment of all Palestinians for

1099
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: the actions of any individuals to carry out attacks. So

1100
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: why isn't the same thing justified on the other side. Oh,

1101
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: it's because we give money to one side. Um yeah,

1102
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: or like one is what like it's it's a state

1103
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: and the others are less of an entity. They don't have,

1104
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, self determination that they can They're not seen

1105
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: as fully like a fully functioning part of a human civilization.

1106
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: Actually exactly yeah. Um. So in nineteen two, is the

1107
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: into Fata war on It's Sacrabine was elected Prime Minister

1108
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: in Israel and he ran on a platform of trying

1109
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: to find a peaceful political solution to the conflict. Rabin

1110
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: worked with President Clinton, with Pol oak chairman Yasir Arafat too.

1111
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: I mean he would frame it is trying to end

1112
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: the violence. He expressed a willingness to hand back territory

1113
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: that Israel had taken. Um. And this really pisss off

1114
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: net and Yahoo and the far right because they thought,

1115
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: we're never giving this ship off. Now. Rabine is the

1116
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: arm breaking guy. He is not at all a dove. Um.

1117
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: I think he's bad person. He had spent his entire

1118
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: life fighting brutal and often criminal wars against Arab states

1119
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: and the Palestinian people. Um. But if you believe the

1120
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: standard line that is said about being He gets kind

1121
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: of worn down by the violence during the anti Fatah

1122
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: and he starts to see Palestinian resistance not as just

1123
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: a military re threat, but as a political grievance that

1124
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: can be solved politically. In September of nineteen three, Rabine

1125
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: shakes hands with Yasser Arafat on the White House lawn

1126
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: and delivers a famous line, we say to you today

1127
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: and allowed in a clear voice, enough of blood and tears. Enough.

1128
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: But bb net and Yahoo and the Likud party had

1129
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: not had enough. They saw Rabine's willingness to give up

1130
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: land as a heresy. Again, remember what we're talking about

1131
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: about what can justify political violence from Jewish people against

1132
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: other Jewish people. Bb This is a secular heresy, it's

1133
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: the sin against guys like his brother who had died

1134
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: fighting to take that land. But for hardcore religious right

1135
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: wing Zionists it's literal heresy. God had told them this

1136
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: land was theirs. Rabine has no right to give it up,

1137
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: and the Palestinians have no right to it now. Bibe

1138
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: is not a hugely religious guy, no matter what he says,

1139
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: But by the early nineteen nineties, he was actively running

1140
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: for Prime minister, and he had become the center of

1141
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: a right wing backlash against Rabine in the early nineteen

1142
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: ninety four at an anti Oslo The Oslo peace process

1143
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: is kind of the name for this attempt that Ravine

1144
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: and and and Clinton and um uh Ara Fat get into.

1145
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: He becomes like so in nineteen ninety four there's a

1146
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: big protest against Oslo and beating net and Yah, who

1147
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: leads a procession bearing a coffin with the inscription Rabine

1148
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: kills Zionism. Now, since it was widely understood that an

1149
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: e PM who stands against Zionism is a traitor, many

1150
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,959
Speaker 1: Liquid members took this as a message which would seem

1151
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: to justify violence against Rabine. Net And Yah, who compared

1152
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: Rabine to Neville Chamberlain, who is the Prime Minister of

1153
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: England who did appeasement with the Nazis in a column

1154
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: for the New York Times, because again he's got all

1155
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: these US media connections. When twenty one Israelis were killed

1156
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: in a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv in late nineteen

1157
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: nine four, net and Yah, who claimed Prime Minister Rabine

1158
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: chose to favor Ara Fat and the well being of

1159
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: the people of Gaza over the security of Israeli citizens.

1160
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 1: At rallies, net and Yah, Who's followers started carrying posters

1161
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: with photoshops of Rabine dressed as Asser Arafat or just

1162
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: wearing a straight up Nazi uniform. From a write up

1163
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: in The Guardian, quote Benjamin Netanyah, who was the star

1164
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: speaker at two now infamous demonstrations, with the crowd slogans

1165
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: included death to Rabine. In July nineteen nine, Netanyah, who

1166
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: walked at the head of a mock veneral procession featuring

1167
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: a fact yet wanted that Israel's head of internal security,

1168
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: asked net Yahoo to dial down the rhetoric, warning that

1169
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's life was in danger. Net and Yah,

1170
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: who declined perhaps he, like Rabine, didn't imagine and Israeli

1171
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: jew could ever kill one of their own. Any threat

1172
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: surely came from elsewhere now. It was around this time

1173
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: that Yigal Amir, a Jewish religious extremist terrorist, decided to

1174
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: kill the Etzak Rabine. He later insisted that extremist rabbis

1175
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: and the rhetoric around Rabine had not swayed his decision. Instead,

1176
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: he claimed he decided all on his own that Rabine

1177
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: had rindered himself essentially non Jewish by offering to give

1178
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: back land that the Bible said belonged to Israel. A

1179
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: lot of people blame net and Yahoo for creating the

1180
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: rhetorical environment that radicalizes a guy named like a mere

1181
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: Um and a mere shoots unkills Rabine at a big

1182
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: pro peace rally that was, in retrospect, probably the height

1183
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 1: of the Israeli peace movement. UM. Now, the fact that

1184
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: Rabine gets killed at a moment when peace is kind

1185
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 1: of at its most popular with the a Israeli electorate

1186
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: should have meant that it would have been possible to

1187
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: work things out right. You can see how this could

1188
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: lead to increased support for the OSLO, but that is

1189
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: not what happened. Um. From the Guardian quote. Rabine's immediate

1190
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: successor was his decades long rival, Shimone Perez. Perez was

1191
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: like urged by one of his advisers to call a

1192
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: snap election. The right was weak, shamed by its association

1193
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: with the incitement that had led to murder. The wave

1194
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: of public grief embodied by the candlelit visuals of young

1195
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: people would surely lead to a landslide victory in an

1196
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: immediate mandate to complete Rabine's peacemaking work, but Perez said no,

1197
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: after years inter being shadow, he wanted to wait until

1198
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: the scheduled election the following summer rather than rely on

1199
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: a sympathy vote. He wanted to be elected by himself.

1200
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: It was just his egos as somebody who knew him

1201
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: at the time. And Perez loses in X. They wait

1202
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: too long, UM, and the winner is Benjamin Netan Yahoo,

1203
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: who gets elected to be Prime minister. Now he doesn't

1204
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: last long. He gets replaced initially UM, but he finds

1205
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: his way back into power. And more importantly, the right

1206
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: wing and the center right are in power basically the

1207
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: entirety of the time after Rabine's death. For all but

1208
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: twenty months of the last twenty five years, the right

1209
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: and center right have controlled the government in Israel. At

1210
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: the last election, the once dominant Israeli Labor Party, if

1211
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 1: it's Acrabine, got less than six percent of the vote

1212
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: and just seven seats in parliament. For twenty five years,

1213
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: Labor has failed to find a leader who could do

1214
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: what Rabine did, which is get people on board with

1215
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 1: any kind of peace process. UM. And at this point

1216
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: there's really no Israeli peace movement, not not in any

1217
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: meaningful sense. I think the left is about eight percent

1218
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: of the electorate. Um Israeli young Israelis are like way

1219
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: more conservative than young people basically anywhere in the world.

1220
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 1: And there's a lot to be said about why that is.

1221
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: But net and Yahoo was a core factor in that,

1222
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: um and a core factor in why you know, the

1223
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: Oslo process doesn't work out and why there's there's no

1224
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: real peace movement today. UM. I mean it's ironic because

1225
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: I think Rabine, you know, I didn't want the Israeli

1226
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: state to be de legitimized the way that it is today.

1227
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: Um bye, Like because he realized, like you know, this

1228
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: longstanding occupation was going to end up with the kind

1229
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: of discussions that are happening now right like apartheid and

1230
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: things like that. Then should we have a by national state,

1231
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 1: should we have a one state? That These are the

1232
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: kinds of discussions that are happening now because they didn't

1233
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: resolve the problem. The Also Accords wasn't intended to necessarily

1234
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: give the Palestinians a full state, but it was intended

1235
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: to like give them some semblance of self governance, get

1236
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: the interne actual community off their back, and very very

1237
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: cleverly contain them. And it worked. It worked. That's what's

1238
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: that's what's funny about all of this is like the

1239
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: also process worked in achieving that. Um. If they had,

1240
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, taken it a little bit seriously, they would

1241
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: have resolved, like they would have fully demobilized Palestinians. Um.

1242
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: But um, you know, it's it's kind of like a

1243
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: like a a political like like you said, political heresy

1244
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: to say, like we can give them a little bit

1245
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: of self governance. Uh. Instead it's like, no, we must,

1246
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: we must ennex all of the aspect, we must take

1247
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: all of this land. Yeah, any kind of compromises, I mean,

1248
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: for one thing, you're compromising with terrorists. That's a big

1249
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: part of what net yahoo wants is trying to do

1250
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: since the seventies. There's no legitimacy to any of these causes.

1251
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: They're all just terrorists and as terrorists, you can't negotiate

1252
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: with them. Um and yeah, um BB is there's a

1253
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: lot of critiques about BB as a as an actual

1254
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: politician who people who will argue that he's incompetent in

1255
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, there's a lot of and I

1256
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: don't want to get into the weeds on any of that.

1257
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: What he's good at, unindebatably in my opinion, is holding

1258
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: onto power. Because he does. Um. He gets re elected

1259
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine. Um, and he's been in power

1260
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 1: ever since. He's the longest serving prime minister in Israel history.

1261
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: Um And yeah he Now it's interesting when he runs

1262
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: for re election in two thousand nine he publicly announces

1263
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 1: his support for a Palestinian state. In a decade later

1264
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: he would rescind any sort of support. Like again, he

1265
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: never really meant it, like he was saying what he

1266
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: thought was kind of because yeah, I mean, he has

1267
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: this speech at Boylan University where he says like, Okay,

1268
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm fine with the Palestinian state. We don't we We

1269
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: can quabble about the terminology later. And you want to

1270
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: call it a state, you can call it a state.

1271
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 1: But it's so it's a state that cannot import missiles

1272
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: into their territory, field and army close their airspace, make

1273
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: PACs with the likes of Iran completely demotorized, otherwise they

1274
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: will become another hemas Sistan. Terminology is not important it's

1275
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: basically a state without sovereignty. Yeah, like that doesn't you know,

1276
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: we like what kind of conceptual stretching is that, Like

1277
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: this is not a state, right, the state that does

1278
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: not have yeah, like control over its own boundaries, controverton

1279
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 1: territories and not a state. You know, I'm not a

1280
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 1: big fan of states in general, but like one of

1281
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 1: the basic definitions of a state is it has a

1282
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: monopoly on the legitimate use of power. And what Yahoo

1283
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: is suggesting is a state where Israel has a monopoly

1284
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: of the legitimate use of power, which the people are

1285
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 1: he was not a state. Um, now they're not. Yeah yeah, sorry, sorry,

1286
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say it. Literally says like they

1287
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: cannot forge any pacts, like they cannot have any over anything.

1288
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah that's yeah, um so yeah. And it's obviously in

1289
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen he even goes back on that and

1290
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: and like, is like that even that kind of milk

1291
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: to support for not even really autonomy doesn't last. Um,

1292
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: And shortly after he comes to office in two thousand

1293
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: and twelve, he orders a major offensive in response to

1294
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 1: rocket fire into Israel. This happens to two thousand twelve.

1295
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: It happens again in a big way in two thousand

1296
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: and fourteen. This leads to a fifty day war that

1297
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: kills Palestinians mostly civilians uh and sixty seven Israeli soldiers,

1298
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: including in six civilians um. And there's there's other you know,

1299
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: salies and attacks and whatnot. There's a pretty much kind

1300
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: of continuous level of violence. And it helps BB because

1301
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: he makes a lot of different domestic blunders. But every

1302
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: time something goes wrong for him, there's another conflict with

1303
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: Hamas Um and even like right now that's kind of

1304
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: going on, like BB, we'll talk about that in a

1305
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: little bit. I don't want to get out of myself. Um.

1306
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: But as time has gone on, Bbe has yielded more

1307
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 1: and more to the far right, who often don't like

1308
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: him because they see him as too much of a moderate,

1309
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: but he gives them what he wants, which is more

1310
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: and more settlements in Palestinian land. The settlement strategy has

1311
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: been part of a very cunning again, a strategy aimed

1312
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,480
Speaker 1: at making a Palestinian state impossible by blocking Palestinian population

1313
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: centers off from one another, with Palestins with the Israeli towns.

1314
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: In two thousand and fifteen when US State Department official

1315
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: Frank Loewenstein like started looking at maps of settlements in

1316
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 1: Israel and realized what was happening. And he talked to

1317
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,640
Speaker 1: a reporter with the New Yorker, and I want a

1318
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 1: reader quote from that article in the New Yorker, because

1319
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's telling. Typically, those maps made

1320
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: Jewish settlements and outposts look tiny compared to the areas

1321
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: where the Palestinians lived. The new map in the briefing

1322
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: book was different. It showed large swaths of territory that

1323
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: were off limits to Palestinian development and filled in space

1324
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: between the settlements and the outposts. At that moment, Loewenstein

1325
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: told me he saw the forest for the trees. Not

1326
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: only were Palestinian population centers being cut off from one another,

1327
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: but there was virtually no way to squeeze a viable

1328
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: Palestinian state into the areas that remained. Loewinstein's team did

1329
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: the math. When the settlement zones, the illegal outpost, and

1330
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: the other areas off limits to Palestinian development were consolidated,

1331
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: they covered almost six of the West Bank. And again,

1332
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: these are illegal settlements under international law. The Obama administration complains.

1333
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: Everybody complains, nobody stopped selling weapons days reel um. Anybody

1334
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: even wants to boycott settlement No, no, nobody even wants

1335
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: to boycott goods made just in the settlement areas. Um.

1336
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: And in fact, people will say that that's anti Semitic um,

1337
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: which is frustrating. I mean, there's laws being pushed in

1338
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: the United States to stop even that kind of again

1339
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: very milk toast resistance. UM. And Yeah, while this is

1340
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: all happening, while settlements are expanding, settler culture grows paramilitary.

1341
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,959
Speaker 1: There's a lot of I think a lot of interplay

1342
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: culturally with what's happening to the US militia movement at

1343
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: the same time. One thing I've seen embodying that recently

1344
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: is there's been photos of Israeli I think they're plain

1345
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 1: closed cops, but they're airing tactical gear, assaulting Palestinians and

1346
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 1: wearing patches that have an Israeli flag and a punisher

1347
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: skull on them. So there's this there's part of this

1348
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 1: kind of like growing global right wing paramilitary culture that

1349
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 1: the Israeli several quote settler culture feeds into and is

1350
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,639
Speaker 1: fed by. That's probably a bigger subject than we could

1351
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: get into today UM. But for kind of a an

1352
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: overview of the violence carried out by these settlers, I

1353
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 1: want to read a write up by the United Nations

1354
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs UM and is it

1355
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: called Selim the human rights seem the human rights a

1356
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: bet Selim's Field researchers documented two hundred and forty incidents

1357
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: of settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, including

1358
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: eight six bodily assaults in which seventy five Palestinians were injured,

1359
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: cases of stone throwing at homes, seventeen attacks on moving vehicles,

1360
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: a hundred and forty seven attacks were aimed at Palestinian

1361
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,600
Speaker 1: farmers or their property, including eighty cases of damage to

1362
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 1: trees and crops owned by Palestinians, resulting in more than

1363
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: three thousand trees vandalized. In thirty nine cases, the violent

1364
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,919
Speaker 1: acts took place during the olive harvest season. Of these incidents,

1365
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 1: seventy two took place in the presence of soldiers, police

1366
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 1: officers or d c O personnel who did not intervene

1367
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,799
Speaker 1: to stop the assault on the Palestinians or their property.

1368
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: In twenty eight cases, soldiers dispersed the Palestinian residents by

1369
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 1: firing tear gas, dung grenades, and rubber coated metal bullets,

1370
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: and in at least five cases, even live fire. Israeli

1371
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: authorities arrested at least twelve Palestinians during these alter occasions. Yeah,

1372
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean they they kind of some of the lynch

1373
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: mobs that we're saying now like it has a precedent

1374
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 1: in this UM. It's like they will you know, try

1375
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: to burned down mosques, burned down like churches. There was

1376
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,720
Speaker 1: like the Duma arson attack in Um where they like

1377
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 1: burned a family, a lot of uh, they like run

1378
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: over kids, like they like you said, they've burned down

1379
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 1: these olive trees. Um. They're just really really like quite

1380
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: violent and it's kind of a UM. It's like a

1381
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 1: level of impunity because they walk around with guns and

1382
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 1: like that's nobody's nobody's nobody does anything like the cops

1383
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: are now you know, they're not actually cops. There is

1384
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: there is really um their army UM and and they

1385
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: like they do not intervene whatsoever. And through all of

1386
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:36,680
Speaker 1: this net and Yaho has held onto power. Part of

1387
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,520
Speaker 1: it is he's he's tough on terrorism. You know, security

1388
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: is kind of the whole thing that he You're a

1389
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 1: big part of why what he runs on. UM. He's

1390
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: the economy has broadly speaking done well under Baby UM,

1391
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 1: or at least during large parts of it, which is

1392
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,080
Speaker 1: a big part of his popularity. UM. The Israeli left

1393
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 1: today is almost non existence, about eight percent of the

1394
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: voting population. Most of the country is center right, and

1395
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: that means the far right gets to dictate policy. UM.

1396
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: This has maintained even though BB has committed a lot

1397
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:10,719
Speaker 1: of scandals. UM. He is currently the state's longest serving

1398
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: leader and also it's first to face criminal prosecution while

1399
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 1: in office. Corruption investigation started in two thousands sixteen led

1400
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 1: to him being charged with bribery, fraud, and breach of

1401
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: trust in three separate cases. He's alleged to have accepted

1402
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: gifts from wealthy businessmen and given out favors in exchange

1403
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: for positive press. UM. There's like, I I don't want

1404
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: to get into the current politics, but like he's basically

1405
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 1: the caretaker prime minister. Now there's been like a bunch

1406
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: of but it kind of looked like the opposition. There

1407
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: was a period a little while where it looked like

1408
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 1: he might get forced out as Prime minister. That doesn't

1409
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 1: seem likely to happen, at least in the immediate future here. Um,

1410
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not gonna like again, I'm not

1411
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: an expert on Israeli politics, but it does seem like

1412
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: everything that's happening, he knows how to make use of it.

1413
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: Um to stay in power. Um. I kind of want

1414
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: to end by noting something I found in an article

1415
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:03,400
Speaker 1: from March nineteen. Benjamin Netan Yahoo, in comments on Instagram,

1416
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: said that all citizens in Israel, including Arabs, had equal rights,

1417
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: but he referred to a deeply controversial law passed that

1418
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 1: year which declared Israel the nation state of the Jewish people, saying, quote,

1419
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: Israel is not a state of all its citizens. According

1420
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 1: to the basic Nationality law we passed, Israel is a

1421
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: nation state of the Jewish people and only it. As

1422
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: you wrote, there is no problem with the Arab citizens

1423
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: of Israel. They have equal rights like all of us,

1424
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 1: and the Likud government has invested more in the Arab

1425
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 1: sector than any other government. But you know that's you're

1426
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: saying that they're not really part of the state, like

1427
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: it's it's it's ethno nationalism without wanting to tell the

1428
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 1: Guardian that your ethno nationalist. Um. Yeah, it's like like

1429
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 1: he always just says this, says the thing and says

1430
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: it's opposite. And and it's you know, if we're if

1431
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about Postinian citizens of Israel, there one in five.

1432
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 1: Well that's not an insignificant number. Um. But they're being

1433
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: told that the right to exercise natural self determination is

1434
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: only unique to Jewish people. Um. And then they don't

1435
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: have their language recognized as an official language. Um. And

1436
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 1: then Jewish settlement is basically enshrined in this law. And

1437
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: then that you know, that's just how senny citizens of Israel. Um.

1438
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,640
Speaker 1: Let alone all these stateless people who live in the

1439
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: Gaza strip in West Bank and Ease Jerusalem, who don't

1440
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: even have like the right to call themselves a citizen,

1441
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 1: albeit apparently not a full one. They're just there. They've

1442
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: got no political will to speak of. It's not a

1443
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: great not a great situation, not a great situation. Um.

1444
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 1: But that is the end of my podcast script. D Uh.

1445
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 1: I mean there's no way not to end on a

1446
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: bad note. Oh yeah, there's no good note to end on,

1447
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: because what's happening is bad. Um, I don't know anything

1448
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 1: else you think we should get into anything else you

1449
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: want to talk about before we settle out. Um, I

1450
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: did remember that I actually made a mistake. It's seventy

1451
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: three years since the next but I don't know. I

1452
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: don't know that matters. Yeah, I mean it does. Yeah,

1453
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: so I just go I was off by two years

1454
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 1: because I'm stuck that before the pandemic essentially. Um, I

1455
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 1: don't know. Let me just see here in my notes.

1456
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, do you want to talk about what's happening

1457
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 1: today or yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean that's it's the

1458
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um, you know, it's it's it's started it.

1459
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 1: It seems like coming when I'm wrong. Here you've got

1460
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: shaik shaha. Um no Jafa right, yeah, you were right.

1461
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:53,839
Speaker 1: The neighborhood in East Jerusalem, Um, right, that's the houses

1462
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: are being people are being eviction. Is the term these

1463
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 1: really state uses, um, which you know it's not really

1464
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: I think an accurate way to characterize it. It's another

1465
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 1: active ethnic cleansing. Um. There were protests as a result

1466
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,959
Speaker 1: of that, and there was a right wing nationalist, religious

1467
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 1: extremist march on Aloxa, and that all kind of like

1468
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 1: combined together to a bunch of protests. Police violence. Police

1469
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: shooting grenades was met by you know, rock throwing and

1470
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 1: uh then violence from paramilitary groups and now you know,

1471
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 1: we're we've escalated to Gaza Is being carpet bombed and

1472
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 1: there's constant rocket fire and uh, it's just it's just

1473
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 1: it looks like a nightmare. All of the footage from inside, Yeah,

1474
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: Lynch mobs, people being beaten in the street, Palestinian businesses

1475
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 1: being attacked. Um, just horrible, horrible, horrible shit. Gaza looks. Yeah,

1476
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,840
Speaker 1: it's apocalyptic. I mean, I don't even Yeah, Gaza Is

1477
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: is like beyond beyond comprehension. But where in Nadine who

1478
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 1: kind of fits into all this aside from the fact

1479
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: that he's the Prime Minister um and he obviously like

1480
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:14,600
Speaker 1: foments this kind of bus all the time. UM. He

1481
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 1: brought into power, UM people who are like Kahonists, who

1482
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: are like um, they take like their ideology like their

1483
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: rare right wing religious Zionists who take their ideology from

1484
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:35,640
Speaker 1: a band movement UM of like extremists. UM. And he

1485
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 1: he you know, did his best to bring them into power,

1486
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,600
Speaker 1: into the kinesset and it's amount of been veer. I

1487
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm saying that correctly, but um, he

1488
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,560
Speaker 1: was one of these people who now finds himself in

1489
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, mainstream politics, and he he is always in ship,

1490
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: like he's always antagonizing, he's always bringing settlers causing um,

1491
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, like trying to agitate like he's he's doing

1492
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 1: it on purpose, um and like agitating people to commit

1493
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 1: acts of violence against the Palestinians outside. So, like, you know,

1494
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: it's good that we're talking about Nathania because like the

1495
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: man is like very deeply implicated aside from you know,

1496
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 1: aside from the fact that he is actually like you know,

1497
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: the political authority here. He's he's like fomented this. Yep.

1498
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, not to say, like, you know,

1499
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 1: Natania has to blame for a structural condition of like

1500
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: settler colonial state that like does not treat everybody properly. Obviously,

1501
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: like there is this structural reason that people are upset,

1502
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 1: but this particular instigation we can trace it to his,

1503
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 1: um political decision making and his and his willingness to

1504
01:21:55,439 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 1: uh you know, um put his weight behind extremists. Yep. Yeah, Um, yeah,

1505
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: that's it's it's a real bummer. And I don't um,

1506
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:19,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like the hopeful thing I guess is that, um,

1507
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 1: people seem to be pretty piste off. But I can't

1508
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 1: tell to what extent that will matter, because people have

1509
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: been piste off about a lot of terrible things that

1510
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: didn't get better. Um, So I don't know. Yeah, I

1511
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,519
Speaker 1: mean I try not to think about it that way

1512
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 1: because I feel, um yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not productive. Yeah.

1513
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:47,760
Speaker 1: So if we can't, we don't have any control or

1514
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:51,719
Speaker 1: the situation. We might as well keep this stuff because

1515
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: I think apathy is apathy is worse. Like you should care,

1516
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: You should at least bear witness to what's happening exactly. Yeah,

1517
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 1: And what I mean that like like uh, particularly those

1518
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:07,160
Speaker 1: of us, because you can't help but bear witness. But

1519
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 1: like people like me, people here in the United States,

1520
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: people who um you know, have grew up hearing one

1521
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: thing about what was happening in Palestine and have come

1522
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 1: to understand a different thing. Um. Anyway, Uh danna you

1523
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 1: want to you want to plug those um um um

1524
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:34,599
Speaker 1: places people can can donate to help. Yeah, the there's

1525
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: medical age for Palestinians. Um, there's uh town and Palestine.

1526
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: That's t A A w O N. And there's UM

1527
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: Draftroots puts A l q U d s UM. There

1528
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 1: are all three organizations that either help on the medical,

1529
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 1: political or economic front. UM to help Palestinians across the

1530
01:23:53,240 --> 01:24:01,759
Speaker 1: territories and inside Jerusalem to to live with dignity. Well awesome,

1531
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: UM help out, Keep reading UM will include a lot

1532
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: of sources and stuff here. That documentary on the October

1533
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: War from Al Jazeera all worth checking out. And I

1534
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 1: don't know, keep keep bearing witness, I guess uh And yep,

1535
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 1: that's the super upbeat and I'm line, I'm gonna end on. Yeah,

1536
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 1: thank you, Danna