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Speaker 1: Before we get started, please rate and review our show.

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Speaker 1: It helps people find us. On this episode of Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly, this year's US Open isn't just about tennis.

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Speaker 1: It's also a farewell to Serena Williams, who announced that

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Speaker 1: she's retiring after the tournament. S I Senior writer John

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Speaker 1: Wortheim joins me to discuss Serena's chances on the court,

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Speaker 1: her impact on sports and pop culture, and her legacy

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Speaker 1: as we say goodbye to the Goat. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This

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Speaker 1: is Sports Illustrated Weekly. John Wortheim, Welcome back to Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good to be here. Always love having

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Speaker 1: you on. The very first time we had you on,

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Speaker 1: we talked about Tom Brady being the goat in his sport.

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Speaker 1: You're sort of our resident goat whisperer. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about the US Open in tennis, but

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Speaker 1: that event will mark a goodbye to the best to

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Speaker 1: average do it. It will be the end for Serena Williams.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna rattle off some stats here, John, twenty three

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Speaker 1: Grand Slam titles, fourteen Grand Slam doubles, titles with her

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Speaker 1: sister Venus, and Olympic Golden singles, three Olympic goals and

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Speaker 1: doubles also with Venus, a record three d and sixty

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Speaker 1: five matches. Wanted the Major. I could go on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. John put in perspective how great her

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Speaker 1: career has been. I have I've whiplash from swiveling my

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Speaker 1: head and all those numbers. I mean, I think part

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Speaker 1: of this is like, these numbers are a joke, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like we rattled them off and they almost

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Speaker 1: get cheapened because it says, you know, we feel like

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Speaker 1: we're giving a Wikipedia bio and we never actually. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just incredible what she has done, and everyone sort

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Speaker 1: of has a favorite number. One of mine is which

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Speaker 1: is the first major that she won Cali. That was,

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Speaker 1: um you know, that was a quarter century ago in

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Speaker 1: a sport where most of the best players once they

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Speaker 1: hit twenty five, certainly thirty historically haven't been uh particularly

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Speaker 1: formidable as players. Um No. I mean, I think some

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Speaker 1: of this in Serena's legacy is about these numbers and

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Speaker 1: the titles, and see, we don't think of her she's

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest doubles players. Of all times. He's

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest American Olympic athletes of all time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are all sorts of dimensions that she

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Speaker 1: hasn't gotten her do on, But to me, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of it too, is just this legacy she

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Speaker 1: leaves that has nothing to do with statistics and what

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Speaker 1: she showed that there is no one way to get

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Speaker 1: to the top of this mountain, and you can resist

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Speaker 1: convention and you can do things your way, and in

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Speaker 1: the end, you play twice as long as you were

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Speaker 1: supposed to in one about ten times as many trophies

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Speaker 1: as anyone thought you ever would. And I think from

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Speaker 1: the racial composition of the players in the US open

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Speaker 1: to the economics of tennis too, I mean, there's so

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Speaker 1: many ways that she's left embark on the sport that

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Speaker 1: have nothing I mean, and I won't say nothing, but

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Speaker 1: they're they're tangentially related to the back of the baseball

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Speaker 1: card stats. Yeah, I'm really a couple of things that

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Speaker 1: you brought up there that I want to unpack. But

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that you mentioned the longevity because you know,

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Speaker 1: you and I it's been a come a theme whenever

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Speaker 1: we talk about these these athletes who have gotten older

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Speaker 1: but keep playing at a high level. Serena's forty shill

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Speaker 1: bet one in September. It's a grueling sport, John, There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of wear and tear on your body when

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Speaker 1: you're running that much. It's really remarkable that she's been

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Speaker 1: able to play this well for this long. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we would be remiss if we did not

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Speaker 1: throw childbirth in there as well being pregnant winning a

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Speaker 1: Grand Slam title. Now, I've never done either, but I

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Speaker 1: hear both can be challenging. Well, apparently Serena Williams did

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Speaker 1: them both at the same time earlier this year. That's right.

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Speaker 1: She was about eight weeks pregnant when she won the

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Speaker 1: Australian Open. When when she started, when the Williams sisters started,

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Speaker 1: you'll notice that they were not They have not spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of weeks rank number one venus. In particular,

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Speaker 1: for all their winning, they haven't held the number one

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Speaker 1: ranking that long, and that's part because of the way

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Speaker 1: the ranking system is set up. And for years and

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Speaker 1: years and years there was this complaint and oh yeah

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Speaker 1: they went a lot, but they don't play a full schedule.

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Speaker 1: And if Lebron you know, I if Michael Jordan only

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Speaker 1: played in the playoffs, of course he'd be fresh. And

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of condemnation in tennis that neither

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Speaker 1: Venus nor Serena played as many events as people liked.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there was a lot of naked self interest there.

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Speaker 1: These were promoters that wanted them to play their events.

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Speaker 1: This was a tour that was trying to sell sponsorships.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't you rather have the best players playing twenty times

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Speaker 1: and not eleven? And as usual, they were right and

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Speaker 1: conventional wisdom was wrong, and it's no you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of their

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Speaker 1: peers burned out or ceased playing in their late twenties,

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Speaker 1: or they retired and re retired. Part of this is

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Speaker 1: because they were really smart early on in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't overplay and they didn't get burnt out.

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Speaker 1: I think something that people forget about tennis to a

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Speaker 1: lot of it, it's physical wear and tear. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can't take possessions off right. You can't say, hey, coach,

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Speaker 1: just I want to come off the bench tonight or

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Speaker 1: I'd like to d h I'm feeling a little sore

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Speaker 1: but in addition to that, there's no home games. So

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Speaker 1: I mean anyone that has traveled let's take Jordan for instance. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean anyone that gets on a plane and you know,

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Speaker 1: all right, so Serena is not waiting at the hurts

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Speaker 1: counter like like the rest of us. But still there's

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Speaker 1: something really grueling about jet lag and time zones and

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Speaker 1: eating at odd hours, and apart from the physical wear

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Speaker 1: and tear, I think people sometimes don't realize the wear

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Speaker 1: and tear that comes with a global workplace where every

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Speaker 1: single week is an international business trip. You also had mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you know that she is a mother, she's a black person,

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Speaker 1: a black woman in a sport that doesn't exactly have

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Speaker 1: a history of generating either. I don't think John, that

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Speaker 1: we can undersell her social impact, right, I mean she's

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Speaker 1: had a massive cultural imprint that goes beyond just tennis, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's global and it's not even sports specific.

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Speaker 1: She almost transcends all of that. Yeah, I um, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's really it's interesting to me how many people,

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Speaker 1: you know, you say, oh, I like tennis, so I

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Speaker 1: cover tennis. It's I always say, it's my guilty pleasure.

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Speaker 1: And people say, oh my god, I love Serena Williams,

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Speaker 1: and I'm always amazed how many people have they have

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Speaker 1: such strong feelings for her, usually overwhelmingly fond. Didn't always

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Speaker 1: used to be that way. But I think that's another

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Speaker 1: dimension to the story we can talk about. But um,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that they love Serena Williams and

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Speaker 1: they've never seen her play tennis. They've never seen her

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Speaker 1: on the court. This is not about four hands and

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Speaker 1: back hands. It's what she represents. It's what she's overcome.

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Speaker 1: It's how she dresses, it's how she conducts herself. She

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Speaker 1: has millions and millions of fans who have never seen

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Speaker 1: her hit a tennis ball. I I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have that with many other athletes. I don't think people say, like,

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Speaker 1: I love Lebron James and it isn't basketball the one

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Speaker 1: where they play five on five. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: so many people that she's won over that have never

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Speaker 1: seen her go to work. It's all about what she represents.

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Speaker 1: You hinted at something there that I think I do

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Speaker 1: want to talk about her popularity now where she has

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Speaker 1: almost universal support as she's going into retirement, but at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the career. As you mentioned, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: always like that. Took a lot of heat, a lot

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Speaker 1: of controversy. How did that all change? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it would. It would be naive not to think

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Speaker 1: that her her winning had a lot to do with it.

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Speaker 1: And some people are simply front runners and by the

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Speaker 1: time you win your seventh, nine, tenth major, maybe you

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Speaker 1: want some people over. But no, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's one of the aspects of the story. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so often with athletes, so it's almost with with Bill

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Speaker 1: Russell for example, or with I mean in tennis, we

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Speaker 1: see this, you know, Pete Sampras and stephie Graf, and

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Speaker 1: we didn't know what we had until we were gone,

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Speaker 1: and boy, if if we could do it again, we

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Speaker 1: would have had so much more appreciation. That is not

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Speaker 1: the case here. Um. There was a lot of friction

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Speaker 1: when Venus and Serena came on the scene. Some of

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Speaker 1: this was the way they comported themselves, and it was

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Speaker 1: so institutional bias, and there were a lot of I

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Speaker 1: was there. There were a lot of microaggressions. I didn't

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Speaker 1: see a lot of sort of flagrant racism there. There's

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Speaker 1: the incident in Indian wells and people talk about but

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Speaker 1: that notwithstanding. To me, it was a lot more subtle

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Speaker 1: than that, And it was a lot more sort of

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Speaker 1: coded language and issues that they had to respond to

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Speaker 1: that other players never would. And in short order, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think fairly early on they won, and the critics

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Speaker 1: shrunk in voice and in number, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if we can time stamp it, but pretty

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Speaker 1: soon this just became this absolute love it. And I

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Speaker 1: mean the reception Serena Williams is going to get win

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Speaker 1: or lose at the US Open is going to be

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Speaker 1: like nothing we've seen a few years ago. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember when Serena was going for the Grand Slam. Um

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Speaker 1: she and for you she she didn't get it, but

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Speaker 1: she she won the first three legs of the Major.

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Speaker 1: She comes to the US Open, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure and in in one of her matches he plays Venus,

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Speaker 1: drawing some of mats, sewing a little six six to

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Speaker 1: and it was just absolute sort of celebration of the

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Speaker 1: sisters and everything they had achieved. And it wasn't always

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Speaker 1: that way. And I think that, um, you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the nice things about play until your age forties,

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Speaker 1: you get your do and you know, some of this

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Speaker 1: is probably you know, Richard Williams, who was a lightning

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Speaker 1: rod for controversy, he became less and less prominent. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some of this was, uh, you know. I I would

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Speaker 1: say that tennis finally started hugging the Williams sisters, and

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Speaker 1: they hugged back their Their colleagues were a lot more complimentary.

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Speaker 1: Venus and Sereno were a lot more social in the

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Speaker 1: locker room. I mean, this was really kind of a

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Speaker 1: love story. And you don't always get this in in sports.

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Speaker 1: You get a lot of boy, people missed the boat

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Speaker 1: on this or you know, but boy, it's too bad

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Speaker 1: that athlete had to go through so much because only

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Speaker 1: in retrospect we really is how extraordinary they were. Midway

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Speaker 1: through this story, everyone fell in love with Venus and

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Speaker 1: Serena as as they should have. And what you're left

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Speaker 1: with is an athlete who I mean, honestly, Serena is

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Speaker 1: not going to win the US Open. She's almost forty

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Speaker 1: one years old, as you say, she's won one match

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Speaker 1: in the last year, and yet she's going to be

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Speaker 1: the story of this tournament. Yeah, and I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to the send off. She deserves all the flowers that

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Speaker 1: she'll be given. But you just sort of asked my

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Speaker 1: next question, what are we looking at here? How long

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Speaker 1: do you think she'll be around? She faces Donka Covinich,

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Speaker 1: who's currently ranked number eighty in the world, in the

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Speaker 1: first round of the US Open. Recent results for Serena

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Speaker 1: haven't been Serena esked she's gonna go on a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a run and give herself a good send

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Speaker 1: off here or or might it be an early bow out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta say that the draw gods did

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Speaker 1: her a favor gotten luck at the US Open, if

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Speaker 1: nothing else, Uh, that the draw gods did her right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was entirely possible she could have drawn,

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Speaker 1: and she's on needed right, so she could have drawn

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Speaker 1: any player in the draw. I mean, Naomi Osaka, she

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Speaker 1: can I mean, she could have drawn whoever, Coco Goth

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Speaker 1: that that did not happen. But you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: in the French Open final, Egish contact, the number one

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Speaker 1: played Coco Goth, who's sort of the ascending American player.

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Speaker 1: They're they're combined age is less than Serena Wildt nine

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Speaker 1: or whatever she you know, in in blade September that

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Speaker 1: that's a big number, especially for a player who doesn't

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Speaker 1: come in with a lot of match play, doesn't come

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Speaker 1: in with a lot of momentum. Again, who's a full

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Speaker 1: time mother. It's extraordinary what Serena has accomplished. I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't even just keep this between us and don't

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Speaker 1: put it on like a Potter joke. I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: you sort of kind of hope. Or last time of tennis,

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Speaker 1: she lost six love and it was to Emirada Kanu,

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Speaker 1: who won the US Open last year six fol six.

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Speaker 1: But emm Arata Condue also hasn't won. You know, she

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Speaker 1: she's sub five hundred this year. So I kind of

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Speaker 1: hope Serena goes out there and gives gives it a

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Speaker 1: competitive match. If she wins around her to so much

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Speaker 1: the better. But we'd all would love to see it happened.

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Speaker 1: We all know how to write, uh, you know, be

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Speaker 1: Hollywood movies. The idea that Rena Williams would win this

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Speaker 1: twenty four major, it's it's kind of I guess fanciful

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Speaker 1: might be. I mean, it ain't gonna happen. A couple

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Speaker 1: of rounds would be great. That would make for a

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Speaker 1: quality B movie anyway. So if it's not gonna be

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Speaker 1: Serena John, who do we like from the women's side.

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Speaker 1: That is a great question, because the the women straws

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Speaker 1: are often open. This is like open open. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a I mean we're coming off a year

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Speaker 1: also in which a player ranked outside the top hundred

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Speaker 1: won the previous US Opens. If you ever needed, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in any given Sunday, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: ever needed sort of proved positive that these anyone can

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Speaker 1: win these things, you need to only go back one year.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I think I think Cocoa

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Speaker 1: Goss got a real chance. That's a perfect the eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old Cocoa Golf. Her winning is one of these

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Speaker 1: when not ifs and why not now? Um, but I don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's literally any of forty plem Naomi Osaka

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Speaker 1: is one twice. Since she's a tremendous player, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: come in with a lot of momentum. I mean they're

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Speaker 1: literally any of fifty players have a decent chance to

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Speaker 1: win this tournament. I kind of like that. I kind

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Speaker 1: of like the toss up aspect of it and not knowing, uh,

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Speaker 1: what about on the men's side. I can't believe we're

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Speaker 1: still talking about this particular issue. But no, vak Djokovic

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Speaker 1: will miss the US Open because the U S requires

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Speaker 1: foreign visitors to be vaccinated. Shocker, He's still not He's

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Speaker 1: not coming. You can address that if you or not.

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Speaker 1: But handicapped the men's side for US um you know,

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Speaker 1: I joking it. I would just I just can't get

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Speaker 1: over this sort of the the framing of this is

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Speaker 1: active versus passive. I mean, there is one thing he

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Speaker 1: could do to be eligible, but billions of people have

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Speaker 1: done worldwide that. You know, every other player in the

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Speaker 1: top one dred of men's tennis has done. The idea

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Speaker 1: that they're not letting him play or even I mean

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Speaker 1: the U S t A has a sort of clumsily

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Speaker 1: worded press release about you, and unfortunately he won't be

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Speaker 1: He won't. He has agency, he could have he could

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Speaker 1: have done something that Billy literally billions of people have

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Speaker 1: done with no adverse effect, and we wouldn't be having

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Speaker 1: this conversation. So I think, you know, whatever, he has

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Speaker 1: his convictions, he's entitled to them. He's not free of

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Speaker 1: the consequences of those. But I think this framing of

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Speaker 1: sort of who who has agency here and who does it?

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Speaker 1: I think is kind of important. But in his absence, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's remember we're talking about the Wide Open women's draw.

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Speaker 1: Usually bestro we have three guys and anyone else is

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Speaker 1: a huge upset. Um. Federer is not playing Rafa Nadal

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Speaker 1: is but and it has not lost in a major

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Speaker 1: this year, but he's been injured, and he's played one

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Speaker 1: match since Wimbledon, and that was a defeat the defending champion,

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Speaker 1: Daniel Medvedev will be seated number one. I think with

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Speaker 1: the odds makers he is the favorite, but he's won

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Speaker 1: one tournament since he won the US Open last year.

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Speaker 1: I will go with Carlos Alcarez. Uh it's glorious. I'll

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Speaker 1: cut us wives the rocket into their claim of center court,

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Speaker 1: whom you can read all about in an upcoming Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated nineteen year old Spaniard. Much like Cocoa Golf, he

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Speaker 1: will win one of these. It's just a question to

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Speaker 1: win and why not. Now, I'm glad you that you

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Speaker 1: brought up Alcaz because as I was thinking about Serena,

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Speaker 1: you had also rattled off some other big names like

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Speaker 1: Osaka and we talked about Djokovic and Federer is not

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Speaker 1: playing and the dolls getting older. Alcros is this interesting

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Speaker 1: young guy who's coming up along with him. Now that

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Speaker 1: Serena is is leaving, I mean she she's leaving a

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Speaker 1: massive hole in tennis and a massive hole in greater

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Speaker 1: pop culture, right, I mean she, as we mentioned, she

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Speaker 1: transcends all of this. So who fills that void? Do

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Speaker 1: you think from tennis? It's a great question because I

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Speaker 1: think it's something that I think it's something that sport needs.

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Speaker 1: That Tennis has always depended on personalities and characters and

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Speaker 1: what they represent. And you know, Andrea Agassi and I

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Speaker 1: go through the list, and when there has been mere

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Speaker 1: excellence without that X factor, it hasn't necessarily hunched through.

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Speaker 1: People want crazy attire, and they want Roger Feeder's elegant,

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Speaker 1: and they want Andre Agassi's you know, mullet and his

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Speaker 1: bandanas and his denim shorts. Tennis kind of needs that

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Speaker 1: in a way that other sports don't. I mean, Naomi

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Speaker 1: Osaka would be the obvious answer, but she's had a

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Speaker 1: very very strange year um that has compassed a lot

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Speaker 1: of winning. I think she's kind of and yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think I think Alcarraz is really special and

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Speaker 1: I mean, to me, Coco golf, Like, if if this

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Speaker 1: whole tennis thing doesn't work out, she has a fallback,

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Speaker 1: which is like president of the United States. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's just she's extraordinary. If she were to win, it

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Speaker 1: would really do wonders for this sport. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean to tennis has always had this very strange

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Speaker 1: relationship with personality. But unlike other team sports, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're no conference standings, right, I mean, there's no it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's like boxing. I mean, you really sort of

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Speaker 1: need athletic excellence, but you need something additional. And with Serena,

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Speaker 1: we are missing both of those in in a big way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we really will be. Uh And as you mentioned, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those sometimes you don't realize what you have

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Speaker 1: until it's gone. So she's leaving soon, John, Do we

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Speaker 1: know what she wants to do next? One thing that

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Speaker 1: we didn't. I mean, this this was someone who's always

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Speaker 1: come shrouded in mystery. I mean, so Serena, Oh, what's

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Speaker 1: the Guild jazz cliche? Like always leave them wanting more?

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Speaker 1: You never quite I mean she was oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: say impenetrable, but there was always she She always held back,

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Speaker 1: and I think that this mystery has served her well competitively.

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Speaker 1: I think in retrospective probably sort of only added to

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Speaker 1: her image. But who the hell knows is the answer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she she has a she's talked about wanting

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Speaker 1: to expand her family. She has this investment fund that

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Speaker 1: that she speaks a lot about. I don't think she

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Speaker 1: necessarily is going to have a lot to do with.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's some some players that's if they've never left.

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Speaker 1: There's commentating and there's coaching. I don't think we're gonna

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Speaker 1: see her much in the tennis world, which which is

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Speaker 1: unfortunately I think she'd be she'd be a great commentator.

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Speaker 1: I just think that's that's not where her head is now.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of um, you know, she won't

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Speaker 1: have a shortage of options, but who knows. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's easy to see her doing any of a

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Speaker 1: hundred things. And UM, I think this sort of work

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Speaker 1: life balance that she wrote about in this this Great

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Speaker 1: Bogs that would encourage people to read, um sort of

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Speaker 1: the work work life balance that she's says she struggled

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Speaker 1: with these last five years, I think is something she'll

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Speaker 1: have to sort of negotiate in her next step. But

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Speaker 1: but who knows, is the answer? I mean, I could.

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Speaker 1: You can see her running a company, and you can

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Speaker 1: see her living on an island and being a full

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Speaker 1: time mother. Who knows she's the only tennis player john

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Speaker 1: man or a woman to win three out of four

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Speaker 1: Grand Slams six times. You know, we've rattled off at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of our conversation all of her records and accolades,

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Speaker 1: which sounds so outside they're almost unbelievable. Are we being

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Speaker 1: hyperbolic to think that she might be the greatest tennis

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Speaker 1: player man or a woman, full stop, of all time?

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Speaker 1: You want me to get really hyperbolic, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: Why constrict that to tennis? What what she has done

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Speaker 1: in terms of a chief and in terms of versatility,

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Speaker 1: I mean, she's one on every surface and every continent

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Speaker 1: and every day. I mean she's she's one in every

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Speaker 1: presidential administration from Clinton to Trump. What's the worst thing

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Speaker 1: you could possibly say about her? She's had a couple

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Speaker 1: of on court outbursts, She's never been arrested, she's never

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Speaker 1: out of scandal. She's I mean and then you just

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Speaker 1: look at and I mean some of this is tennis related, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you sort of look at players today and

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Speaker 1: it's extraordinary. And I'm not just talking about black women.

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Speaker 1: It's extraordinary. How many have said I never thought I

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Speaker 1: had a future in this sport, and then I saw

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Speaker 1: Serena Williams. My parents were in Venezuela and we didn't

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Speaker 1: have money. But then I saw Serena Williams. I would

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Speaker 1: take that beyond sports. And again, I just think this

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Speaker 1: is a story that ages really, really well, and the

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Speaker 1: objections that may have accompanied her in the beginning and

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Speaker 1: the nineties are now it would get you fired. I

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Speaker 1: mean that you get canceled for some of the things

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Speaker 1: people said and wrote twenty five years ago. The fact

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Speaker 1: that the second best player of this generation happened to

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Speaker 1: be her sister, who shared a bed, you know, who

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Speaker 1: shared a bunk bit. I mean, it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: crazy story. It will age really well, and I think

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Speaker 1: I would go so far. I mean, do you find

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Speaker 1: me a we're playing this this horribly cliche and trite

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Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore game. I mean, if we're playing this greatest

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Speaker 1: athlete ever Jordan Ally Blah blah, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know who are you putting ahead of Serena Williams. It's

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Speaker 1: a hell of a story. It's not over just yet.

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Speaker 1: Make sure to read him on SI dot com. Like

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Speaker 1: Serena and Tennis, he's the goat for s I. John Wortheim,

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Speaker 1: thank you for this very kind, nice document Owes, Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening everybody, and a reminder to please rate and

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Speaker 1: review the show that helps people find us. Sports Illustrated

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Speaker 1: Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows. And for more Sports Illustrated It's best stories

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Speaker 1: and podcasts, visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly was produced by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski,

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Speaker 1: and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer. Our

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Speaker 1: senior producers are Dan Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our

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Speaker 1: executive producers are Scott Brodie and me John Gonzalez. Our

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Speaker 1: theme song is by Nolan Schneider. And if you've stuck

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Speaker 1: around this long, we leave you with this. So she's

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Speaker 1: leaving soon, John, do we know what she wants to

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Speaker 1: do next, either Crypto or Dispenser who knows, and probably

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Speaker 1: whatever she wants