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Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero.

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Speaker 2: I am Ukshatarti and I'm Michaelerel. This week COP twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: Big Messy Deal.

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Speaker 3: Chat.

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Speaker 2: COP twenty nine is over and we have a deal.

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Speaker 2: I was only there for the first week, so I've

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Speaker 2: had a week to recover. But you've come straight to

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Speaker 2: the studio directly from the airport.

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Speaker 1: How the heck are you exhausted? But we know this

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Speaker 1: is how it ends. This is my fourth COP, so

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Speaker 1: I was a little bit prepared that we're going to

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Speaker 1: have an all nighter and we're going to be waiting

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Speaker 1: for a bit, and we're going to be chasing for

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, and we don't know how it ends.

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Speaker 1: We are going to have to pick the pieces once

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Speaker 1: everything is done. Seems there was at least a big deal,

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Speaker 1: but not as much progress as people had hoped.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into the specifics of what's in

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Speaker 2: that deal and whether it's a good deal. But first

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Speaker 2: I think it's worth returning to the question we laid

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Speaker 2: out on the very first day of the conference about

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Speaker 2: whether Iserbaijan was going to be up to the task

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Speaker 2: of leading this summer in the first place. This was

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Speaker 2: my first COP and there was a lot that impressed

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Speaker 2: me about how things were run in Baku. Things went

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Speaker 2: smoothly at the venue. The shuttle buses to and from

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Speaker 2: the Baku Olympic Stadium were very punctual. Things seemed organized,

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Speaker 2: pretty reliable. The city seemed ready for this influx of visitors.

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Speaker 2: The tourist district of Old City Baku is very charming,

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Speaker 2: ready for people. Overall, how would you rate Iserbaijan's performance

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Speaker 2: this cop, You're.

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Speaker 1: Right, the logistics were better than most cops. It is

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Speaker 1: not easy to suddenly have an influx of fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: people who are all waying to the same place and

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Speaker 1: are there for official business, and so they have very

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Speaker 1: little time and just need to get on with things.

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Speaker 1: And Azerbaijan was able to pull that off. But we

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Speaker 1: also found out that because it's an authoritarian government, they

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Speaker 1: could do a lot to make this happen. Baku's traffic

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Speaker 1: is pretty infamous, and we didn't really experience much of

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Speaker 1: it because they'd shut down schools and universities, asked most

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Speaker 1: of their government employees to work from home. They had

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Speaker 1: cleared up street vendors. They'd shut down these so called

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Speaker 1: slave markets where mostly men show up for informal work,

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Speaker 1: and there were no beggars to be seen, which are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a regular part of being in Baku.

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Speaker 1: So you have to note that for the visitors it

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Speaker 1: wasn't what Baku usually is. But yes, it did make

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Speaker 1: the COP work better.

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Speaker 2: So that was the experience for people In terms of

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Speaker 2: interacting with the city, it was very seamless. But what

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Speaker 2: about actually when it came time to negotiate and get

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Speaker 2: things past.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of complaints about the presidency, Mukhtar Babayev,

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Speaker 1: who had never been much of a presence at COP

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Speaker 1: meetings before and had never taken on a job of

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Speaker 1: this level. And of course he had, you know, ten

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Speaker 1: months to prepare, and he got plenty of advice. As

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Speaker 1: we've learned, companies like Deloitte were involved in providing advice,

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Speaker 1: but also past COP presidents and their teams were involved.

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Speaker 1: And yet during these sophisticated, delicate negotiations between two hundred parties,

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Speaker 1: there is a level of forthrightness. There's a level of

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Speaker 1: preparedness that a presidency needs to come in with and

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Speaker 1: that was lacking and it really showed up towards the

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Speaker 1: second week when the deal had to be done, and

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Speaker 1: the documents had to come in time, but they were late,

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Speaker 1: and the ingredients in those documents over things that people

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Speaker 1: would agree or disagree were all over the place. And

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Speaker 1: it did seem like on Saturday, which was twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours later than the official deadline of hop that things

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Speaker 1: might just not fall in place and there might be

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Speaker 1: no deal, and some of that blame would have been

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Speaker 1: put on the presidency itself.

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Speaker 2: All the more difficult because we knew this was the

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Speaker 2: finance cop Matt alone was going to make it hard

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Speaker 2: because it's one thing to agree on some ideas on

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Speaker 2: the abstract. It's another thing to agree to pay to

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Speaker 2: cough up the bill. And there were two big things

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Speaker 2: on the table. One of them was the NCQG, the

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Speaker 2: new Collective Quantified Goal on climate finance, the big sum

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Speaker 2: that rich countries would have to commit to. Let's start

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Speaker 2: with that.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Coming in. We had a lot of different

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Speaker 1: analyzes looking at just how much money this is going

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Speaker 1: to be, how much can developing countries get from developed countries.

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Speaker 1: And when we were on the ground, we got a

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Speaker 1: chance to speak to developed countries and developing countries. So

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Speaker 1: take a listen to one person we spoke to who

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Speaker 1: is moment Khlored, Minister of Energy and Oil for Mauritania,

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Speaker 1: one of the world's porest countries.

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Speaker 3: I think the main issue for Africa is financing to

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Speaker 3: mitigate the impact of the climate change we get to

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Speaker 3: hit because of the climate change. If look even at Mauritania,

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Speaker 3: we have inundation now, we have a lot of rain, desertification,

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Speaker 3: a lot of issues is causing a lot of problem.

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Speaker 3: So I think we need to find a financial model

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Speaker 3: where Africa can be financed to electrify, to improve the

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Speaker 3: skills of its workforce, to cope with the migration of

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Speaker 3: people from the desert to the cities. So this is

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Speaker 3: really what's needed to be looked at right now.

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Speaker 2: So he was really clear that the financing number was

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Speaker 2: going to make a big difference for him in terms

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Speaker 2: of what his country could do to elevate its standard

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Speaker 2: of living and move towards a green future, and.

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Speaker 1: That money had to come from develop countries. And we

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Speaker 1: got a chance to interview the Prime Minister of then

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Speaker 1: Mark Meta Frederickson. Denmark has been historically a country that

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Speaker 1: has been quite climbed forward, but when it comes to

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Speaker 1: hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars. Even they will

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Speaker 1: have to figure out how exactly they will deliver that.

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Speaker 4: Some goals and targets are one thing, but delivering is

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Speaker 4: the next. Of course, a country like Denmark should deliver.

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Speaker 4: We are pushing for ambitious target, but we also have

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Speaker 4: to discuss who are going to contribute to this because

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Speaker 4: it for me, I am totally convinced that a country

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Speaker 4: like Denmark should participate and support this, but I think

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Speaker 4: some of the new strong economies to participate, for example China,

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Speaker 4: but also the Golf States.

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Speaker 2: So those are the stakes of why this money was

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Speaker 2: so important and why even countries who want to support

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Speaker 2: these ideas would have some concerns about the final price tag.

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Speaker 2: What was the final price tag?

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Speaker 1: Three hundred billion dollars annually. It will be delivered by

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty five and will be ramped up from current

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Speaker 1: levels of one hundred billion dollars annually. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: just took inflation between now and twenty thirty five, that

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Speaker 1: will already cause the two hundred billion dollars to be

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Speaker 1: just worth one hundred billion dollars today. So three hundred

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Speaker 1: billion by that time is in upgrade. But it's not

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Speaker 1: that huge a leap, and so there were lots of

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Speaker 1: complaints from developing countries that this sum is too low,

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Speaker 1: that how exactly this sum will be counted, and where

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Speaker 1: will this money flow is still not clear and that's

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Speaker 1: not good enough. But on the flip side, you had

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Speaker 1: developed countries, many of which, as we've seen in this

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Speaker 1: year of elections, have taken a right word turn, are

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Speaker 1: looking inward rather than outward, who have budgets that are constrained,

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Speaker 1: that are not willing to put anymore. So it was

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Speaker 1: kind of a mine that even a larger sum was

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Speaker 1: agreed upon and as we saw it really could have

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Speaker 1: all fallen apart.

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Speaker 2: So there was a deal, but it was hard fought

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Speaker 2: with a lot of trauma. Again, it was back in

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Speaker 2: London by the time all this was going down, but

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Speaker 2: my WhatsApp was exploding with hundreds of messages from the

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Climate team through every twist and turn on the plenary.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was quite something. This is my fourth cop

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Speaker 1: and we typically expect some fireworks to happen at the plenary,

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Speaker 1: just like last minute tweeks in Glasgow. We had a

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Speaker 1: phase down versus phase out fight in India and China

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Speaker 1: were against the US and Europe and we expected nothing

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Speaker 1: less here. Given this has been labeled the hardest COPS

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Speaker 1: since Paris. What happened is that typically at the end

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Speaker 1: of the COP it's a consensus, which means you, as

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Speaker 1: the president, say to the parties, we are going to

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Speaker 1: be adopting this. Does anybody have any objections and if not,

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Speaker 1: then the president can gabble it down and it's done.

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Speaker 1: But consensus is not unanimity. The president has powers to

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Speaker 1: overcome objections because Saudi Arabia has blocked voting rules at

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Speaker 1: COP meetings and that gives the president powers to overrule objections.

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Speaker 1: And in this case it's not clear, but as soon

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Speaker 1: as the finance deal was put forward for adoption and

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Speaker 1: question about objections was asked. Very soon after that, the

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Speaker 1: gavel went down and India immediately started waving their hands

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Speaker 1: calling for a time out. They rushed onto the stage

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Speaker 1: or talked to the president. They came back and afterwards

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Speaker 1: they got a chance to speak and they said, we

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Speaker 1: are unhappy with this process. This has been a stage

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Speaker 1: managed process.

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Speaker 4: This has been stage managed and we are extremely, extremely

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Speaker 4: disappointed with this incident.

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Speaker 1: It was perhaps one of the strongest pushbacks I've heard

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Speaker 1: from a country at a COP meeting. Now, just so

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Speaker 1: that we are clear, there's a technical reason why India

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Speaker 1: was opposing the deal. In the current hundred billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: there is a contribution from multilateral development banks such as

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Speaker 1: World Bank or IMF that is counted towards climate finance.

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Speaker 1: Because these institutions put about fifty percent of their lending

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Speaker 1: into climate projects, about fifty percent of their shareholding is

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Speaker 1: rich countries, so that shareholding's contribution is counted towards the

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Speaker 1: climate finance goal. Going into this three hundred billion dollar figure,

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Speaker 1: Developed countries wanted to count all of the shareholders in

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Speaker 1: that goal, which would mean countries like China and India

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Speaker 1: that do have shareholding in World Bank and IMF will

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Speaker 1: also have their number counted towards the three hundred billion.

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Speaker 1: From an Indian perspective, that would make rich countries less

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Speaker 1: responsible towards the three hundred billion, because India's contributions are

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Speaker 1: being hunted and they did not want that. But the

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Speaker 1: deal has been done and India will have to live

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Speaker 1: with it, and we'll see how this fight shakes out

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Speaker 1: and whether the trust in the process that is so

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Speaker 1: crucial to keep two hundred countries together remains as we

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Speaker 1: go into Bellham in Brazil.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that was the NCQG. The other thing that

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Speaker 2: we knew to keep an eye on was Article six,

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Speaker 2: which talks about carbon markets, and some serious details needed

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Speaker 2: to be ironed out on that. Where did things land there.

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Speaker 1: I was in the plenary hall when the Article six

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Speaker 1: got gabled through by the President and there were quite

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Speaker 1: a lot of cheers. One observer said, probably because they

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Speaker 1: are happy they're never going to have to hear about

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Speaker 1: Article six again.

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Speaker 2: And clearly people throughout the week kept saying, we've been

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Speaker 2: talking about this for nine years, but you were saying

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Speaker 2: it's even more than nine years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the idea of carbon markets have been

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Speaker 1: around for a long time. In the nineties, we had

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Speaker 1: the CUTA Protocol, as we've discussed on the part before

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Speaker 1: and then, and Article six were supposed to be an

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Speaker 1: upgrade to that, and yes, it got done, but there

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Speaker 1: are still plenty of issues that remain. There are questions

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Speaker 1: around the integrity of the credits that will be traded.

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Speaker 1: There are questions about these new types of markets that

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Speaker 1: would be operating between two countries. So Switzerland can make

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Speaker 1: a deal with Ghana and maybe no third party verifies

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Speaker 1: what that deal is. So we'll see how things shake out.

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Speaker 1: You know, people have been talking and talking about Article

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Speaker 1: six for more than a decade. Now these rules have

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Speaker 1: been agreed on. They will have to be modified and

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Speaker 1: tweaked if they're not working, if countries are not trading

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Speaker 1: as you want, if the emissions reductions are not real.

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Speaker 1: And those who were cheering that we will hear less

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Speaker 1: about Article six, I'm afraid we are going to hear

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Speaker 1: a lot more about it.

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Speaker 2: So we talked about what was in the deal, but

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Speaker 2: what was not in the deal, what was conspicuously missing.

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Speaker 1: Well, there was another piece of text that was called

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Speaker 1: the Global Stock Take, which is basically the exercise that

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Speaker 1: happened Dubai looking at what was the progress countries had

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Speaker 1: made between the Paris Agreement in twenty fifteen and Dubai.

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Speaker 1: And obviously we know that progress wasn't enough, but it

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Speaker 1: was actually a numerical activity to find out just how

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Speaker 1: far behind countries are and then take actions to try

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Speaker 1: and improve on those numbers. That's where we got the

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Speaker 1: phrase transitioning away from fossil fuels, and there was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a document that said we are going to

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Speaker 1: reaffirm what we agreed on at COP twenty eight, and

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Speaker 1: we will go further and transition away from fossil fuels

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Speaker 1: and put those into the national climate plans that are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be submitted over the next few months. That document,

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Speaker 1: in the end did not get the support of all countries,

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Speaker 1: and it has now been postponed for discussion at the

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Speaker 1: next COP.

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Speaker 2: It seems like a bit of a step backwards because

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Speaker 2: last COP, as I understand it, one big breakthrough, one

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Speaker 2: big headline, was this consensus around the need to transition

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Speaker 2: away from fossil fuels right correct.

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Speaker 1: What we've seen is that one actor among a few,

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Speaker 1: has been really pushing heart names well, Saudi Arabia because

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Speaker 1: we reported that in our stories, has been pushing hard

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Speaker 1: to erase any mention of fossil fuels in not just

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Speaker 1: COP meetings but many international forums like the G twenty

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Speaker 1: and it has had a lot of success because it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't want people to be talking about transitioning away

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Speaker 1: from fossil fuels, and the science is very clear. If

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Speaker 1: you've signed on to the Paras Agreement goals of keeping

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Speaker 1: temperature targets to one point five or two degree celsius.

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Speaker 1: You are going to have to reduce your use of

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Speaker 1: fossil fuels. But saying it out loud is clearly irking

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and they don't want people to be saying it.

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Speaker 1: And we are going to see that fight play out

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Speaker 1: again at the next come.

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Speaker 2: After the break, we turned to the question of one

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Speaker 2: point five celsius and some other unfinished business left for

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Speaker 2: Cop thirty. And if you've been enjoying this episode, please

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Speaker 2: take a moment to rate and review the show on

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Speaker 2: Spotify or Apple. It helps other listeners find the show.

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Speaker 2: There's another thing that I heard a lot of discussion

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Speaker 2: of in that first week, and I know carried on

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Speaker 2: through the second week, which is the question of one

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Speaker 2: point five c That's the level of warming the world

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Speaker 2: has been trying to keep under. That's been sort of

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Speaker 2: the target, the point we don't want to surpass. The

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Speaker 2: feasibility of that figure has been in question for some time.

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Speaker 2: There's one quote that caught my eye from Panama Special

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Speaker 2: Representative for Climate Change one, Carlos Monterrey Gomez, and he

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Speaker 2: said we needed to leave Baku with an agreement to

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Speaker 2: keep the multilateral system alive. We kept the system alive,

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Speaker 2: But I think one point five is dead after this

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Speaker 2: COP is one point five C a number we should

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Speaker 2: still be talking about.

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Speaker 1: So this year is likely to be the first year

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Speaker 1: where temperatures are going to be, on average more than

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Speaker 1: one point five degrees celsius relative to pre industrial levels.

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Speaker 1: Now that is not the parish target. The parish target

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Speaker 1: is a long term average of staying above one point

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Speaker 1: five degrees celsius. But scientists are clear that we are

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Speaker 1: likely to surpass that too. Now within the Paris Agreement,

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Speaker 1: there is a chance that you could go about one

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Speaker 1: point five degree celsius and then come back down by

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Speaker 1: drawing down carbon dioxide from the atmosphere technically feasible but

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Speaker 1: very expensive. So yes, as a target that we should

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Speaker 1: not breach, one point five C is likely dead because

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Speaker 1: we will breach it. But the long term target of

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Speaker 1: actually bringing it back down to one point five C

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Speaker 1: isn't dead. And that's the thing that we heard again

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Speaker 1: and again from island states at COP twenty nine. For them,

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Speaker 1: one point five CE they call it a death sentence

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Speaker 1: because sea levels will rise, their homes will be inundated.

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Speaker 1: They won't have places to go to. They're going to

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Speaker 1: end up without homes, and so they are not willing

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Speaker 1: to move away from this target. This is the thing

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Speaker 1: they will keep pushing on, and from the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world's perspective, it still makes sense to try and

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Speaker 1: avoid every point one degree celsius of warming that you can.

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Speaker 1: So one point five CREE is likely to remain as

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Speaker 1: a rallying cry, and the world will need to try

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Speaker 1: to do as much as possible to avoid the worst impacts.

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Speaker 2: COP kicked off just a couple of days after the

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Speaker 2: US election, as we've talked about in a couple of

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Speaker 2: past episodes, and in the first days we were in Baku,

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Speaker 2: we had a chance to catch up with Indonesia's Special

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Speaker 2: Presidential Envoy, Hashim Joyohadi Kusumo, and he had something interesting

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Speaker 2: to say.

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Speaker 5: I'm a bit wary, frankly, because of the change of

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Speaker 5: government in the United States. I was in Marrakesh, you know,

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Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen. I remember what happened. I mean, I

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Speaker 5: detect the same sort of atmosphere for voting. I hope

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Speaker 5: we can work things out between the parties, but we

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Speaker 5: have to be wary, and I think everybody in this

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Speaker 5: conference is weary, I think.

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Speaker 1: And I think he was onto something, because we did

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Speaker 1: see flickers of chaos. At one point Argentina pulled negotiators

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Speaker 1: out of COP twenty nine, and there was a risk

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Speaker 1: that Argentina might also quit the Paris Agreement, as Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has said the US will do so. But towards

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Speaker 1: the second week things come down a little bit. Argentina

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Speaker 1: said they are not going to quit the Paris Agreement.

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Speaker 1: We had Russia come out and say that actually, the

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Speaker 1: US shouldn't leave the Paris Agreement, a twist I did

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Speaker 1: not see coming. And we did get a deal done.

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Speaker 1: And that deal happened despite many veterans of COP like

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Speaker 1: John Kerry in the United States, Shia Genoa in China

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Speaker 1: not being present, to not have those experienced hands guiding

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Speaker 1: the negotiations toward the end, the fact that we got

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Speaker 1: a deal done is a big deal, and it shows

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Speaker 1: that the US, as much as it's a big power

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Speaker 1: in the world, it's only twelve percent of global emissions,

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the world still cares about haak

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Speaker 1: climate change and they do want to get on with

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Speaker 1: the job.

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Speaker 2: So Trump's election had somewhat of a limited impact but

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Speaker 2: I did feel the geopolitics of this conference was very heavy,

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Speaker 2: pretty unescapable. Even in the run up to things, when

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Speaker 2: we were reaching out to heads of state trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out who we might talk to in Baku, we

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Speaker 2: heard from many countries like, oh, sorry, our plans are

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Speaker 2: in flux because there's an election on the horizon. We

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Speaker 2: heard that from Ireland, we heard that from Japan. This

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Speaker 2: was a big election year around the world, a lot

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Speaker 2: of turmoil, and we saw a lot of incumbents doing poorly,

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Speaker 2: a populist message resonating, a right word shift in a

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Speaker 2: lot of major governments. How did all of that show

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Speaker 2: up in your mind in those two weeks in Baku.

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Speaker 1: Given climate is a decadal challenge, political swings are power

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Speaker 1: for the course. We know that right word shifts have

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Speaker 1: happened in the past and climate action has continued despite it,

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Speaker 1: but you're right, this moment feels more strenuous than it

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Speaker 1: has in recent years. We got a chance to speak

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Speaker 1: to Sophie Hermann's who is the Climate Minister of the Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: and it gave us a sense of what a place

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Speaker 1: that has seen a right word shift can do on climate.

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Speaker 1: Because Sophie now represents a four party coalition. Two of

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Speaker 1: those parties do not want to do anything on climate

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Speaker 1: and to want to and they have to come to

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Speaker 1: this grand compromise to try and figure out how they'll

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Speaker 1: meet their legally mandated climate goals, sit within the European Union,

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Speaker 1: which has very ambitious climate targets, and make them all

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Speaker 1: work despite the political shift. Here's what Sophie had to say.

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Speaker 6: Well, in this coalition, we agreed that what we stated

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Speaker 6: in our law at the twenty thirty target but also

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Speaker 6: the twenty fifty targets, it's non negotiable. That's what we

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Speaker 6: are going to do and what we have to achieve.

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Speaker 6: So there's no discussion about it, and now we have

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Speaker 6: the discussion of how to achieve it.

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Speaker 2: So the theme seems to be it's very messy, but

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Speaker 2: on we go, and that messiness wasn't just about politics

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Speaker 2: and elections, but also about several wars that continue even

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Speaker 2: as these talks played out. It was striking to go

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Speaker 2: visit the Russia Pavilion with its life size Motroit cadals,

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Speaker 2: and then right around the corner was the Ukraine Pavilion,

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Speaker 2: which also had a very elaborate showing with these biodegradable

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Speaker 2: walls covered with seeds. Both countries quite engaged in the process,

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Speaker 2: even as they are also engaged in a war.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just Russia and Ukraine. We caught up

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Speaker 1: with the climaton way of Israel. Gideon Behar and I

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Speaker 1: asked him, how do you think about climate change when

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Speaker 1: there is a war happening? And how do you compare

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Speaker 1: the timelines on which these two crises have to be

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Speaker 1: How are you going to agree with people you are

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Speaker 1: at war with.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, the climate crisis is impacting all of

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Speaker 7: us and it's a danger for humanity at all. So

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Speaker 7: we really have to come to a consensus. And Israel

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Speaker 7: is here because Israel is part of the international community.

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Speaker 7: Israel is a dedicated member trying to make its contribution

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Speaker 7: to solve the climate crisis. And we are here, so

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Speaker 7: we will be part of a consensus.

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Speaker 1: And we did get ideal, and we shouldn't take that

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Speaker 1: for granted. The multilateral process is a delicate one and

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Speaker 1: it is currently being put under a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: But that's what makes it interesting to come to a

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Speaker 1: cop where all these countries do show up and jostle

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Speaker 1: over the fate of the planet over the next century.

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Speaker 2: There was a line in the piece that you filed

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Speaker 2: with reporters John Ainger and Jender Louis and Alfred Song

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Speaker 2: kind of stayed with me on this point, and it

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Speaker 2: was this idea that even though there was a deal,

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Speaker 2: and here's the line, the process of global climate cooperation

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Speaker 2: will lurch forward from here under the weight of heavier

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Speaker 2: existential questions. This was already a pretty heavy cup. How

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Speaker 2: much heavier can I get?

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Speaker 1: Look covering climate change day in and day out, there's

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Speaker 1: just no way to escape heavier existential questions. You know,

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Speaker 1: humanity is likely to survive this period, but perhaps in

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Speaker 1: a very poor state if it doesn't do much, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps in a very good state if it does a lot.

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Speaker 1: But the heavier questions here are quite real. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about so many of them. The right would turn to politics,

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Speaker 1: wars happening, the creaking of the multilateral system, the rise

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Speaker 1: of competition instead of cooperation, the inward turn of countries

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Speaker 1: in a time when global crises that required global responses

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Speaker 1: are growing. That's what makes this beat so dynamic, That's

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Speaker 1: what makes the progress so interesting, because the forces against

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Speaker 1: it are so strong and to me The question at

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Speaker 1: the heart of this equation is whether we can all

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Speaker 1: work together toward progress.

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Speaker 2: We've already been looking ahead to COP thirty. In our

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Speaker 2: last episode, you spoke to Brazil's Andre Corrier di Lago,

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Speaker 2: the Secretary for Climate, Energy and the Environment. Brazil's the

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Speaker 2: next host. They are planning to hold the conference in Belem,

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Speaker 2: the gateway to the Amazon, a place that, again like Baku,

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Speaker 2: isn't necessarily used to big influx of visitors. He was

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Speaker 2: very cheerful and candid about all of this. He said

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Speaker 2: Brazil wasn't going to try to hide its problems. Brazil

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Speaker 2: was committed to leading by example and embracing some of

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Speaker 2: those contradictions. Given how things ended in Baku, what can

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Speaker 2: we expect in Vilm.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of expectations being put on on

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Speaker 1: COP thirty in Belem. One is that, given we are

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Speaker 1: behind these new national climate plans that countries have to submit,

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Speaker 1: have to be much more ambitious. With a deal on

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Speaker 1: finance at Baku, that becomes a little easier because countries

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Speaker 1: will have so called conditional climate plans where they say,

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Speaker 1: if this money does come through as was promised, we'll

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Speaker 1: be able to do so much more to cut emissions.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing about this finance deal is that

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Speaker 1: although three hundred billion dollars were agreed to, the needs

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Speaker 1: for foreign investments into developing countries is about one point

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Speaker 1: three trillion dollars per year that was acknowledged in the

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Speaker 1: final deal. And there's going to be a road to

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Speaker 1: BELLM program that is going to work on figuring out

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Speaker 1: how to increase the sum of climate finance from three

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Speaker 1: hundred billion to one point three trillion. What exactly are

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Speaker 1: these innovative financial instruments that could be used us to

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Speaker 1: make that happen. So Brazil already had a lot to

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Speaker 1: do and now it's got more on its table. But

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Speaker 1: it seems Brazil is really committed on making this BELLM

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Speaker 1: COP a real success and they've already begun that job

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Speaker 1: as part of this troika that was created between COP

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, COP twenty nine and COP thirty and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are very excited about what's to come. Actually,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, And just to add, all of

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Speaker 1: this work is not work that we do alone. We

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Speaker 1: had a big team from Bloombergreen on the ground in Baku,

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Speaker 1: and all of our coverage from those two weeks is

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Speaker 1: free to read. Please do go check out bloomberg dot com, Forward.

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Speaker 2: Slash Green everything you need to know about COP twenty

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Speaker 2: nine and COP thirty.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Zero and now for the

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Speaker 1: sound of the week. In the one free afternoon I

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Speaker 1: had in Baku, I went to visit mud volcanoes, which

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Speaker 1: leaves methane. But the most memorable thing was the ride

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Speaker 1: to the volcanoes, which happened in a nineteen eighty seven

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Speaker 1: Russian Lada four by four, a vehicle as old as

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Speaker 1: I am and one that felt like went at rocket

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Speaker 1: speed on unpaved roads while I sat behind, holding on

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Speaker 1: for dear life. If you like this episode, please take

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Speaker 1: a moment to rate and review the show on Apple

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Speaker 1: Podcasts and Spotify. Share this episode with a friend or

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Speaker 1: with someone who still believes in a United Nations. You

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Speaker 1: can get in touch at zero pot at Bloomberg dot Net.

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Speaker 1: Zero's producer is might Lee Raw, Bloomberg's head a podcast

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00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: is Sage Bowman, and head of Talk is Brendan Nuna.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music is composed by Wondering Special thanks to

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Speaker 1: Shawan Wagner, Sharon Chan, Jender, Louis, Alfred San, John Ainger,

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Speaker 1: Natasha White, Will Kennedy, Rock Kadocky, and Aaron Rutko. I

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Speaker 1: am actual rati back so