WEBVTT - Annette Kellerman

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly fry So. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>summer coming, at least in theory, sho. I think I

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<v Speaker 1>think summer has definitely arrived where you are, which is Atlanta. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess technically it's still cooler than it

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<v Speaker 1>usually would be this time of year. Yeah, it is

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<v Speaker 1>not warm at all. It's fifty seven degrees right now.

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<v Speaker 1>We're recording this on May thirtieth. Yeah, like, I think

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<v Speaker 1>our high today might be eighty, which sounds hot to

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<v Speaker 1>some people, but for Atlanta at the end of May,

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<v Speaker 1>that's really not. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's been a We've

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<v Speaker 1>had an unseasonably cool um May up here in New

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<v Speaker 1>England anyway, though, at least in theory, summer is either

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<v Speaker 1>on the way or here for most but not all

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<v Speaker 1>of our listeners. So seems like a good time talk

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<v Speaker 1>about swimming. We yes, specifically, we are talking about Annette Kellerman,

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<v Speaker 1>who gets a lot of the credit for developing the

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<v Speaker 1>woman's one piece bathing suit and then for making it

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<v Speaker 1>socially appropriate for women in a lot of the English

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<v Speaker 1>speaking world to put on an outfit that you could

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<v Speaker 1>actually swim in without drowning and then go out in

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<v Speaker 1>public that way, and perhaps kind of ironically, she was Australian,

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<v Speaker 1>where it is definitely not coming on summer. So Australians,

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<v Speaker 1>we have some Australian history today that is uh, seasonally

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<v Speaker 1>incongruous for where you actually live, unless you happen to

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<v Speaker 1>be uh somebody who's downloading it late in the game,

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<v Speaker 1>in which case store hooray summer for you as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Annette Kellerman was born in the suburbs of Sydney, Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>She was coy about her birth date, and it's variously

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<v Speaker 1>cited as July five or sixth of eighteen eighty six,

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty seven, or eighteen eighty eight. The sixth is

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<v Speaker 1>the most frequently cited date. Her father, Frederick, was a

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<v Speaker 1>violinist born in Australia, and her mother, Alice, was a

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<v Speaker 1>pianist and a music teacher who was originally from France.

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<v Speaker 1>When she was young, and Nett had to wear braces

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<v Speaker 1>on her legs because of persistent weakness, and not only

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<v Speaker 1>were these braces painful to wear, but she also found

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<v Speaker 1>them embarrassing. The cause is unclear. A few sources site

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<v Speaker 1>rickets or polio, and later on in her life she

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<v Speaker 1>speculated that hip might have been a calcium deficiency her

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<v Speaker 1>according to her own account, actual doctors at the time

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<v Speaker 1>said that it was because she had been allowed to

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<v Speaker 1>learn to walk too early, or that she had chalk

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<v Speaker 1>in her bones. Neither of those are real things would

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<v Speaker 1>have caused her to need leg braces. Um, so totally unclear,

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<v Speaker 1>but the braces were a real part of her life.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so she get when you go to cartoon doctors, like,

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<v Speaker 1>chalk in your bones sounds like such a cartoon diagnosis,

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<v Speaker 1>and chalk bones is a nickname for like one congenital

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<v Speaker 1>bone condition, but it has nothing to do with what

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<v Speaker 1>she was experiencing. Is a totally different set of symptoms.

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<v Speaker 1>So very weird. Yeah, whatever the cause of her disability,

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<v Speaker 1>eventually her father visited a doctor who recommended swimming lessons,

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<v Speaker 1>and at first and that was really terrified of this plan,

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<v Speaker 1>possibly because it meant exposing her legs to people, which

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<v Speaker 1>she did not want to do because they were visibly undeveloped,

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<v Speaker 1>and she begged not to have to go, but her

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<v Speaker 1>parents and the doctor were all certain that swimming would

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<v Speaker 1>really help, so she and her brothers were taken to

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<v Speaker 1>Frederick Cavell's baths so they could learn to swim, and

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<v Speaker 1>the Cavils were actually a whole family of swimmers there

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<v Speaker 1>in the International Swimming Hall of Fame for their combined

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<v Speaker 1>contributions to the sport. It took a Net a lot

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<v Speaker 1>longer to get the hang of swimming than it took

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<v Speaker 1>her brothers. They were both able to swim on their

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<v Speaker 1>own after a handful of lessons, but it took a

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<v Speaker 1>net close to twenty But once she knew how to

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<v Speaker 1>do it, as predicted, it really did help her build

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<v Speaker 1>her strength up and her legs, and with the water

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<v Speaker 1>supporting her, she could move around without having to wear

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<v Speaker 1>the braces, and that would later describe her gradual improvement

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<v Speaker 1>through swimming as a process of intense joy. By the

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<v Speaker 1>time she reached the age of thirteen, her muscle development

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<v Speaker 1>was more or less typical for a child her age,

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<v Speaker 1>although she was susceptible to muscle strains and had to

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<v Speaker 1>wear very tightly laced boots until she was eighteen. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the swimming strokes that are recognized and used

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<v Speaker 1>competitively today were still new or in the process of

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<v Speaker 1>being developed and refined. So what a Net learned at

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<v Speaker 1>first was basically the breaststroke, and that was the stroke

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<v Speaker 1>that she used mostly when she was exercising at first.

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<v Speaker 1>At about the age of fifteen, she started branching out

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<v Speaker 1>into learning other strokes, putting dedicated effort into practicing them

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<v Speaker 1>and getting better at them, and soon she told her

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<v Speaker 1>parents that she wanted to start competing in swimming. Her

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<v Speaker 1>first swimming race was a local event, and she wanted

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<v Speaker 1>Annette's father had been incredulous when she said she wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to enter a swimming race. He had thought of swimming

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<v Speaker 1>as something she was doing because of her disability, not

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<v Speaker 1>as something she would seriously pursue for her own sake.

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<v Speaker 1>But once she had that first win under her belt,

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<v Speaker 1>he was instrumental in her progress as a competitive swimmer,

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<v Speaker 1>essentially becoming both her trainer and her coach. As soon

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<v Speaker 1>as she started seriously competing, a Net started winning races

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<v Speaker 1>and setting records. In nineteen o two, at the age

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<v Speaker 1>of about sixteen, she won a one hundred yard championship

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<v Speaker 1>for New South Wales and also set a world record

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<v Speaker 1>for swimming a mile with a time of thirty two

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<v Speaker 1>minutes and twenty nine seconds. That same year, she started

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<v Speaker 1>participating in long distance swimming races and public diving demonstrations.

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<v Speaker 1>Her time in the water wasn't only about competition, though,

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<v Speaker 1>She started doing mermaid shows in Australian aquariums along with

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<v Speaker 1>other aquatic performances while she was still in her teens.

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<v Speaker 1>Although she was winning races and making a name for

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<v Speaker 1>her self as a competitive swimmer, she wasn't really able

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<v Speaker 1>to earn an income from doing so. So Annette and

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<v Speaker 1>her father moved to England with the hope of finding

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<v Speaker 1>more lucrative opportunities to compete and perform. Once they arrived

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<v Speaker 1>in England, they had a really hard time getting started.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Annette already held multiple records and swimming, they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know anyone and Annette didn't have a local reputation to

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<v Speaker 1>try to build on, So her father hatched a plan

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<v Speaker 1>to drum up some publicity. She would swim twenty six miles,

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<v Speaker 1>which was forty two kilometers down the Thames from Putney

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<v Speaker 1>to black Wall in five Annette, at about age eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>became the first woman to make this swim, Although it

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<v Speaker 1>did indeed bring in a lot of media attention. The

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<v Speaker 1>swim itself was terrible. The Thames was filthy, and Annette

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<v Speaker 1>later said she felt like she'd swallowed big mouthfuls of

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<v Speaker 1>oil from the surface of the river. She had also

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<v Speaker 1>had to dodge a lot of flotsam, garbage, tugboats and

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<v Speaker 1>barges along the way. But afterward a sports editor from

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<v Speaker 1>The Daily Mirror approached her with another idea. The Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Mirror was the first paper in the UK to use

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<v Speaker 1>photographs rather than illustrations, and the editor thought that articles

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<v Speaker 1>on a net complete with photographs of her in the

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<v Speaker 1>scandalous swimwear that we're going to talk about a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more later, if you thought that would sell a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of papers. So we offered to back her in

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<v Speaker 1>attempts and an attempt to swim across the English Channel,

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<v Speaker 1>along with paying for and writing about swims along the

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<v Speaker 1>coast to train for it. This entire enterprise was wildly

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<v Speaker 1>successful in almost every way, and that's training. Swims down

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<v Speaker 1>the coast threw huge crowds, and the articles and their

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<v Speaker 1>corresponding photos sold lots of papers. She swam an average

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<v Speaker 1>of forty five miles or seventy two kilometers per week,

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<v Speaker 1>increasing the distance of each swim until she had done

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty four miles stretch from Dover to Ramsgate. At

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<v Speaker 1>that point she thought she was ready to try to

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<v Speaker 1>conquer the Channel. Although that's a slightly shorter stints than

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<v Speaker 1>her swim down the Thames, swimming in the English Channel

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<v Speaker 1>is far more difficult due to the very cold water,

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<v Speaker 1>the waves and the tides. She made her first attempts

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<v Speaker 1>to swim across the English Channel along with six men

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<v Speaker 1>on August nine oh five. They all started their swim

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<v Speaker 1>at about three in the morning, all from different points

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<v Speaker 1>along the coast, based on where they thought the currents

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<v Speaker 1>and the tides would be the most advantageous. Each swimmer

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<v Speaker 1>was accompanied by a steam tug in a row boat

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<v Speaker 1>in case they fell into some distress along the way,

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<v Speaker 1>and then periodically hot chocolate or food could be handed

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<v Speaker 1>down to the swimmers from these boats to keep their

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<v Speaker 1>energy up. An advertiser had given a net chocolate to

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<v Speaker 1>eat along the way, but the combination of chocolate and

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<v Speaker 1>the choppy water really made her sea sick. The further

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<v Speaker 1>she went, the bigger her pay day would be those

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<v Speaker 1>so she kept herself going through that seasickness by thinking

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<v Speaker 1>the longer you stick, the more you get. She stuck

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<v Speaker 1>it out for about six and a half hours, and

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<v Speaker 1>she was paid thirty pounds. This was the first of

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<v Speaker 1>Kellerman's three attempts to swim that swim the English Channel,

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<v Speaker 1>and as with her swim down the Thames, she was

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<v Speaker 1>the first woman to make the attempt. The closest she

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<v Speaker 1>came in these three attempts to actually crossing was about

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<v Speaker 1>three quarters of the way, which took ten and a

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<v Speaker 1>half hours. Later, Killerman would say she thought she had

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<v Speaker 1>the endurance to swim the channel, but not the raw strength.

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<v Speaker 1>In her book How to Swim, she wrote that she

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<v Speaker 1>didn't think a woman would ever successfully swim the English Channel.

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<v Speaker 1>She was proven wrong in six when Gertrude utterly crossed

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<v Speaker 1>in fourteen hours thirty nine minutes, not only swimming the

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<v Speaker 1>channel but beating the previous record time by more than

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<v Speaker 1>two hours. Today there are lots of women swim across

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<v Speaker 1>the English Channel, including swimming at three consecutive times, like

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<v Speaker 1>swimming it across one way and then going back and

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<v Speaker 1>then going back across again, which is astounding to me.

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<v Speaker 1>So in kellerman first attempt to swim across the English Channel.

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<v Speaker 1>The male swimmers who were swimming that night were allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to be nude, but she had to wear a swimsuit

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<v Speaker 1>that chafed her skin just terribly. And this brings us

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<v Speaker 1>to her efforts to make suitable swimwear for women, which

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<v Speaker 1>we will talk about more after a sponsor break. That

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<v Speaker 1>swim down the Thames and the attempts to cross the

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<v Speaker 1>English Channel, We're not Annette Kellerman's only long distance races

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen hundreds. Before leaving Australia, she had taken

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<v Speaker 1>multiple long distance swims down the Yarra River, including becoming

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<v Speaker 1>the first woman to complete a ten mile stretch. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen o five, she participated in a race down the

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<v Speaker 1>sin where she tied for third with with Thomas William Burgess.

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<v Speaker 1>And her account of this race and how to swim,

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<v Speaker 1>she wrote that well, meeting spectators kept calling out that

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<v Speaker 1>she was almost there and had just two bridges more,

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<v Speaker 1>and when she alized she was not almost there, and

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<v Speaker 1>she became just really discouraged because she had worn herself

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<v Speaker 1>out doing what she thought was her final push to

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<v Speaker 1>the finish line. So when Burgess caught up to her

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<v Speaker 1>and saw that she was crying in a very lovely

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<v Speaker 1>show of sporting behavior. He stayed with her and encouraged

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<v Speaker 1>her for the rest of the of the race, and

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<v Speaker 1>that is how they came to tie. In June of six,

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<v Speaker 1>Kellerman also won a twenty two mile or thirty six

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<v Speaker 1>kilometer race down the Danube. I think anyone also who

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<v Speaker 1>has ever run a race knows the the ire of

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<v Speaker 1>please don't tell me if you're almost there, when you're not,

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<v Speaker 1>when you're not know anyway, it was a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>unclear to me whether these were the people in the

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<v Speaker 1>guide boat or the people who were just spectators who

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<v Speaker 1>were saying this, but like she they got her a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of times, and then in like time number three

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<v Speaker 1>of them being like, you're almost there, she was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not well right. And it's almost always well intentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>like if you but let this be a note if

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<v Speaker 1>you're ever spectating and sporting that please don't fimb to

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<v Speaker 1>the participant because it does more to harm their head

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<v Speaker 1>game than than help. And in most of these events,

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<v Speaker 1>Kellerman was one of very few women, and sometimes she

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<v Speaker 1>was the only woman, and she typically swam them wearing

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<v Speaker 1>a swimsuit that was actually made for men, so this

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<v Speaker 1>was not unheard of in Australia at this point. Uh

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<v Speaker 1>swimming was already a more established sport in Australia than

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<v Speaker 1>it was in the United Kingdom or the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was astonishing in a lot of the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of the English speaking world, where water was for bathing,

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<v Speaker 1>not for swimming. Bathing meant getting into the water a

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<v Speaker 1>little way and you might wait or play or maybe

0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.200
<v Speaker 1>float a little out there, but you didn't really swim,

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people didn't even know how to swim.

0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.240
<v Speaker 1>The idea of uh man made swimming pool was also

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.080
<v Speaker 1>still quite recent at this point, like there had not

0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.360
<v Speaker 1>even been one built for the Olympics yet. So like

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 1>bathing was a thing that happened at a beach, whether

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 1>it was like a lakeside beach or a seashore beach,

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.319
<v Speaker 1>it did not really happen in a pool. And even

0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 1>if you wanted to swim, if you were a woman

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.840
<v Speaker 1>around the turn of the twentieth century, your bathing entire

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 1>was not something you could actually swim in. The standard

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 1>bathing costume for women was essentially a dress with a

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 1>length that ranged within a couple of inches above or

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 1>below the knee. It had a blousey top and puffy,

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 1>usually short sleeves, sometimes with the sailor's collar. It was cinched,

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.920
<v Speaker 1>belted or ribboned at the waist and worn with stockings

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and bathing slippers or sometimes even bathing boots that went

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>all the way up the calves, and many women wore

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>their bathing clothes with corsets and other underpinnings. Here is

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.959
<v Speaker 1>what a net Kellerman had to say about these outfits.

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Quote there is no more reason why you should wear

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:59.079
<v Speaker 1>those awful water overcoats, those awkward, unnecessary, lumpy quote bathing suits.

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Then there is that you should wear lead chains. Heavy

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 1>bathing suits have caused more deaths by drowning than cramps.

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>I am certain there isn't a single reason under the

0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 1>sun why everybody should not wear lightweight suits. Anyone who

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 1>persuades you to wear the heavy skurty kind is endangering

0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:23.680
<v Speaker 1>your life. Just thinking about wearing tights into the water

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 1>is a horrifying prospect to me. Oh, I don't know why.

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>It just kind of grosses me out. Uh. For competitive

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 1>women's swimmers, there was a grudging exception to the standard

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>of dress they could wear. A men's bathing suit, which

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.760
<v Speaker 1>was more like a T shirt and shorts, sometimes constructed

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 1>all is one piece, But this also starts a whole

0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>chicken and egg situation. Women weren't supposed to be seen

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>in a tired that they could actually swim in, which

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>created a huge barrier for entry for the sport of swimming. Yeah,

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 1>if people were like, well, I guess you can wear

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.760
<v Speaker 1>a men's suit for this race, that left the question of, like,

0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 1>all the training you would need to do to be

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 1>able to compete in the race in the first place.

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 1>It was this whole social standard of what was acceptable

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 1>for women to wear that led Kellerman to invent a

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.680
<v Speaker 1>new swimsuit. In five she was scheduled for a swimming

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 1>performance at London's Bath Club and some of the royal

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>family was to be in attendance. The men's bathing suit

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 1>that she had been wearing was determined to be inappropriate

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>because it was two revealing. So Kellerman bought a pair

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>of black stockings and she sewed them to the legs

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 1>of her men's bathing suit, creating what was effectively a

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 1>one piece garment that covered her from her shoulders to

0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 1>her feet. From there, she began tweaking and refining this

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>original design, eventually developing a one piece, form fitting garment

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 1>without sleeves. The lengths of the legs varied from full

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>length and stalking like to stopping at the thigh. Although

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 1>this would be considered pretty modest swimwear by a lot

0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>of today's standards, it was not at all all modest

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.280
<v Speaker 1>by the standards of the day. Like we said before

0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the first break, the very idea of a woman in

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>public and such a garment was enough to sell newspapers.

0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 1>It's widely reported that in seven Kellerman was arrested for

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 1>indecency on Revere Beach in Massachusetts while wearing one of

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 1>these swimsuits. Although there's no arrest in the log books,

0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 1>it's a story that came up again and again and

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 1>again during her own lifetime, including from her own mouth,

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.160
<v Speaker 1>like I don't think she made this up, but people

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>have noted that, like they can't find a document that

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>actually details the arrest. In spite of heavy resistance to

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the idea of women being out in public so relatively unclothed,

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Kellerman persisted. She launched her own line of women's swimwear,

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.120
<v Speaker 1>some of which came with a modesty panel, which was

0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 1>a close fitting skirt that went from waste to knee,

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>covering the thighs but bringing along far less fabric and

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>weight than the previous era of swimsuits. She became so

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>closely associated to this type of swim where that soon

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 1>people were calling anything that looked like it in a

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 1>net Kellerman or just a Kellerman, although it was a

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.200
<v Speaker 1>name she trademarked and went to court to defend when

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 1>she needed to, and at some beaches, Kellerman type suits

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 1>were actually banned. As Kellerman became more famous and her

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 1>swimsuits became more widely adopted, it gradually became more acceptable

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.159
<v Speaker 1>for women to be seen in them and for women

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.680
<v Speaker 1>to participate in the sport of swimming, and compounding that,

0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 1>for swimming in general to be seen as a recreational activity.

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Some of this was part of an overall growth in

0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 1>the popularity of swimming, but it wasn't just happenstance. Kellerman

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.400
<v Speaker 1>was an active advocate for women to learn to swim

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 1>and for swimming to be seen as an acceptable form

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 1>of exercise, recreation, and competition for women. She wrote quote,

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to shut men out of swimming there's

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 1>enough water in the world for all of us. But

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 1>as men can indulge in so many others sports where

0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>women can make a poor showing or cannot compete at all,

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Swimming may well be called the women's sport. But unfortunately

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.640
<v Speaker 1>this progress did not apply to all women. Even though

0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Kellerman herself wrote things like quote, there is nothing more

0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>democratic than swimming, and a clean, cool, beautiful, cheap thing

0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 1>we all from cats to kings can enjoy, swimming was

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>not actually accessible to everyone. In the United States, public

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.880
<v Speaker 1>beaches and as they were built, public swimming pools were

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.960
<v Speaker 1>often racially segregated, and the Indigenous population was barred from

0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.800
<v Speaker 1>many public swimming areas in Australia, So while Kellerman was

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.640
<v Speaker 1>a staunch advocate for making swimming accessible to women, that

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 1>was really most applicable to white women. And to add

0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.119
<v Speaker 1>another layer to all of this, a lot of the

0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>swimming strokes that she learned as a child and then

0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 1>helps to popularize and as an adult were either patterned

0:18:55.359 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 1>after or directly taught to white swimmers by Indigenous Australians

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and indigenous people from elsewhere in the Pacific. So like

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the art and skill of swimming drew

0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.919
<v Speaker 1>from indigenous knowledge, but Indigenous people were excluded from a

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of public swimming locations. In addition to contributing to

0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>the popularity and at least for some accessibility of swimming,

0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Annette Kellerman's fame and skill led to a completely different

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 1>aspect of her career Vaudeville and Hollywood. We're going to

0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>talk about that after we pause for a sponsor break.

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 1>A lot of Annette Kellerman's fame as a swimmer came

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:44.560
<v Speaker 1>because she was naturally a performer. She was definitely talented.

0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to overlook that at all. She legitimately

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 1>won races, and she set records, and she was one

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>of the best swimmers of her era. But a lot

0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.920
<v Speaker 1>of the attention that she got for those successes was

0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.480
<v Speaker 1>due to showmanship and an openness with her body that

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.920
<v Speaker 1>was not really typical for the time. A woman swimmer

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.639
<v Speaker 1>was already relatively novel in a lot of places, and

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.960
<v Speaker 1>a woman swimmer who flaunted social expectations to proudly wear

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.719
<v Speaker 1>a scandalous swimsuit was a real attention getter. This attention

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.199
<v Speaker 1>actually led her to a career in Vaudeville. In nineteen

0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 1>o six, Having performed at the London Hippodrome and won

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.359
<v Speaker 1>numerous races in Europe, she sailed for the United States

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>to perform an amusement parks and theaters. Her vaudeville act

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 1>involved a combination of swimming, high diving, water stunts, and

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.959
<v Speaker 1>mermaid shows, for which she often designed all of her

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.400
<v Speaker 1>own costumes. She would eventually donate all of her costumes

0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>and memorabilia to the Sydney Opera House. We will put

0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:45.679
<v Speaker 1>a link in the show notes where you can go

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.720
<v Speaker 1>look at them. There's a lot. There are lots and

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.359
<v Speaker 1>lots of pictures of this collection that you can browse through,

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 1>and they are fascinating. Although water shows already existed in Vaudeville,

0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Kellerman added a lot of her own flare and incorporated

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.320
<v Speaker 1>ballet and other movement in what would become a precursor

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.960
<v Speaker 1>to synchronize swimming. Her biggest production at the New York

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Hippodrome included a core of two hundred mermaids, all swimming

0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 1>in tandem. She also tried her hand at other types

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 1>of performance, including male impersonation and high wire walking. By

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>nineteen fourteen, Kellerman had become one of the highest paid

0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 1>performers in vaudeville. Also during her time in vaudeville, she

0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.160
<v Speaker 1>got married after proposing to her manager, Louis Sullivan, who

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 1>was known as Jimmy in ve Running parallel to her

0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 1>time in vaudeville, Kellerman also began acting in films. Her

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 1>first films were a series of silent shorts made while

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.439
<v Speaker 1>she was trying to work out a contract dispute between

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 1>two different theater managers. Later on, when other people started

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to copy her water act and her pay in vaudeville

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:56.080
<v Speaker 1>consequently plummeted, she turned to film almost entirely. Kellerman's film

0:21:56.200 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 1>roles involved lots of water and swimming, and sometimes also

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.479
<v Speaker 1>played off the fact that the South Pacific was pretty

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 1>exotic two American audiences, which meant that Kellerman herself was

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.639
<v Speaker 1>often seen as exotic as well. Her first full length

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>movie was Neptune's Daughter, which came out in nineteen fourteen.

0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.679
<v Speaker 1>She played a mermaid wearing sheer body suits that matched

0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.280
<v Speaker 1>her skin tone. In nineteen sixteen, she started a film

0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.159
<v Speaker 1>called The Daughter of the Gods, which was a fantasy drama.

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.159
<v Speaker 1>She played Anisia, who was the daughter in question. In

0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.040
<v Speaker 1>this film, she had a scene in which she was

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 1>completely nude, although part of her body was covered by

0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.000
<v Speaker 1>her hair. It was one of the first fully nude

0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.399
<v Speaker 1>appearances by a major star in a non pornographic movie.

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Her final film, Venus of the South Seas, came out

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 1>in nine four. There are definitely people who call the

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Daughter of the Gods role like the first nude appearance

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 1>by a woman in film, and that seems a little there.

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:02.920
<v Speaker 1>It needs a little more caveats in that um Kellerman

0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 1>mostly retired from performing in the nineteen thirties. She and

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.120
<v Speaker 1>her husband moved to California, where she opened a health

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:13.360
<v Speaker 1>food store. She's apparently a vegetarian her whole life. By

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 1>this point she had published books on swimming and on fitness,

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.679
<v Speaker 1>and one called Physical Beauty and How to Keep It.

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 1>This one, to a modern reader, is maybe a little weird.

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.840
<v Speaker 1>It's simultaneously acknowledges the double standards that women face regarding

0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.359
<v Speaker 1>our bodies and appearances. But at the same time it

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:33.399
<v Speaker 1>is a how to manual for how to have an

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.480
<v Speaker 1>ideal body, and it clearly spells out that the point

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>in doing so is to keep from losing your figure

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 1>and consequently your husband as you age. So in some ways,

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Like in some ways she was way ahead of her time,

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>and in some ways she was squarely a product of it.

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 1>The system is really bad, but here's how to buy in.

0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that yeah, uh that book also, like it's a

0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 1>little I don't know what what Annette Kellerman's racial views

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 1>were about, like the contributions of indigenous swimmers swimming and

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 1>all of this sort of stuff, But she has a

0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 1>couple of lines in this book that, like, you can

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:21.200
<v Speaker 1>tell there are some problematic racial and and racist views

0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:22.919
<v Speaker 1>in there, Like at one point she says it's the

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.879
<v Speaker 1>only people who need corsets are children and savages, and

0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:31.600
<v Speaker 1>by savages in quotation marks, she means Africans, Like I

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 1>don't want to I don't want to gloss over that.

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.280
<v Speaker 1>But like that, it's a weird intrusion in a book

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:42.200
<v Speaker 1>that's definitely about um, you know, middle class white women

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 1>retaining their figures, which has its own set of social play.

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Kellerman also established health spas. She wrote newspaper columns on

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.399
<v Speaker 1>health and beauty. She stridently advocated for women to be

0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 1>encouraged to be fit and active, and she wrote eight

0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.520
<v Speaker 1>children's book called fairy Tales of the South Seas but

0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.080
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of ways she had become famous for

0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:10.200
<v Speaker 1>her bathing suits and for the body under them. In

0:25:10.320 --> 0:25:14.080
<v Speaker 1>nine Dr Dudley, Sergeant of Harvard, had taken the measurements

0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 1>of about one thousand women and compared them to the

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:20.480
<v Speaker 1>measurements of the Venus de Milo. Kellerman's were closest, and

0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 1>he dubbed her the perfect Woman, which, along with that

0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Revere Beach arrest, became part of her ongoing marketing. In

0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:33.359
<v Speaker 1>the Harvard Collections, like the Harvard Special Collections, are still

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 1>boxes and boxes of these women's measurement cards that were

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 1>part of this study, which baffles me on a number

0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:45.239
<v Speaker 1>of different It doesn't baffle me that the cards are

0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 1>still in the collection. It baffles me that, like, let's

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.639
<v Speaker 1>measure a thousand women and compare them to a statue

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 1>was a study in the first place. So her fame

0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.679
<v Speaker 1>for her figure and the clothing being bathing suits on

0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:04.480
<v Speaker 1>it persisted long after the first decade of the nineteen hundreds,

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 1>which was really when Annette Kellerman had introduced and become

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.840
<v Speaker 1>famous for the s bathing suit. In nineteen thirty five,

0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>an Associated Press reporter tractor down and got her opinion

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.600
<v Speaker 1>on some subtorial Hubbub and Yonkers, New York that was

0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 1>over women wearing shorts. She recalled that it had only

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>been a couple of decades since that time she was

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>arrested and then said, quote, but I've always preached the

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.440
<v Speaker 1>importance of caring for the female figure, So the girls

0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.840
<v Speaker 1>will have to look to their shapes and not to

0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:37.439
<v Speaker 1>the courts when they appear in suits. But remember, please,

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I am not a nudist. Uh An Associated Press headline

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>from ninety seven read quote and nett Kellerman still draws

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 1>crowd legs of diving Venus hold former beauty so like

0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:59.840
<v Speaker 1>people were still basically writing about her body years after

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:05.480
<v Speaker 1>she stopped be performing with it, like she was still

0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:07.639
<v Speaker 1>the go to person to talk to you about scandalous

0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:12.960
<v Speaker 1>swimwear and women's figures. Kellerman and her husband returned to

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Australia a couple of times during the nineteen forties, including

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:18.639
<v Speaker 1>during World War Two when she entertained troops in the

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 1>South Pacific. In nineteen fifty two, Esther Williams played her

0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 1>in the film Million Dollar Mermaid. Kellerman was not a

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.439
<v Speaker 1>fan of this film. They called it quote a silly

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:33.880
<v Speaker 1>little yarn and also quote a namby panby attempt. She

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>was frustrated that she was played by an American in

0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:39.480
<v Speaker 1>this movie, and also that the film was more of

0:27:39.520 --> 0:27:43.719
<v Speaker 1>a swimming spectacular than an actual biography of her. As

0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:45.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of a side note, she was also not a

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:48.359
<v Speaker 1>fan of the bikini after it was introduced, calling it

0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:52.200
<v Speaker 1>far too revealing and noting that almost nobody had the

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:56.160
<v Speaker 1>figure to actually wear one. Kellerman and her husband moved

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:59.679
<v Speaker 1>back to Australia for good in nineteen seventy. She was

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:02.399
<v Speaker 1>in did into the International Swimming Hall of Fame in

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:06.720
<v Speaker 1>nineteen four, and she died on November six, ninety five,

0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:11.879
<v Speaker 1>at the age of roughly seven. Both sources say eighty

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:15.640
<v Speaker 1>seven or eighty eight. It's uh, it's a little her

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:19.239
<v Speaker 1>late eighties, her late eighties. Who wants to end with

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:22.639
<v Speaker 1>a poem? I do. I'm really excited We've gotten to

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:27.639
<v Speaker 1>end some episodes with pemns lately. This poem ran in

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:32.560
<v Speaker 1>the Boston Post on November seven, of Night No More,

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:36.120
<v Speaker 1>The Gibson Bathing Girls shall grace the Newport's Summer World.

0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Annette declares her garments wrong at both ends too extremely long.

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 1>The Gibson Girl maybe a peach as she perambulates the beach.

0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 1>But now if in the swim she'd be she must

0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:53.120
<v Speaker 1>with sweet Annette agree her heavy skirt she must replace

0:28:53.200 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 1>with filmy Raymon for the race. Thank you, she will

0:28:56.640 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 1>consent to dress in such approach to nothing us he

0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:08.560
<v Speaker 1>uh sus Kellerman. Sometimes you will see her name spelled

0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 1>with two ends instead of one end, which was apparently

0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 1>a nod to her German heritage that she used when

0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:18.840
<v Speaker 1>she published her books, But most sources and as biographies

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 1>have it just with one end. Do you have some

0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.360
<v Speaker 1>listener mail with any number of ends in it? I

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>sure do. It is from Shannon. It's called a few

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Rambling Thoughts. I'm not going to read all the thoughts

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>because some of them are episode suggestions. I've been listening

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to your podcast for a while now. This is my

0:29:36.600 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 1>first time writing to you, though I've often wanted to.

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I absolutely love your podcast and listen to it while

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm driving, while I cleaning, cook et cetera. So thank you.

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for all the awesome work you do and

0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 1>for always being conscientious and respectful about whatever subject you cover.

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to write for a couple of reasons. First

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 1>of all, in your most recent podcast The Ladies of

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:59.720
<v Speaker 1>ben gothlind You mentioned that Eleanor and Sarah were top hats.

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:02.920
<v Speaker 1>In traditional Welsh costume, which seems to originated in the

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.680
<v Speaker 1>late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, women wore top hats

0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:08.720
<v Speaker 1>below or a couple of links for you to look at.

0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:10.959
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if this has anything to do with

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Eleanor and Sarah's decisions to wear top hats, but I

0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 1>think it's definitely worth mentioning. I don't think it was

0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 1>completely unheard of for Welsh women, even if they were

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.880
<v Speaker 1>originally Irish of this time period, to be wearing top hats.

0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:25.239
<v Speaker 1>And she has a couple of links, and I ran

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:29.080
<v Speaker 1>into some other stuff and we will put things into

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the show notes with some links for folks to go

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.440
<v Speaker 1>look at it. So yes, Uh, there is a Welsh

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 1>hat that is part of Welsh national dress which looks

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a top hat, except it's even taller

0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:43.280
<v Speaker 1>and a little skinnier. It's like a chimney hat um.

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 1>And it seems as though this was really adopted as

0:30:46.960 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 1>part of Welsh national dress after uh the deaths of

0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 1>the Ladies of Bengal of thank God, So like they

0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:59.400
<v Speaker 1>may have been wearing these hats as part of what

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:02.240
<v Speaker 1>was the fact and where they were living in Wales,

0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 1>but in terms of it being adopted as an actual

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>part of Welsh national dress, the hat itself was a

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit different from what they're wearing in engravings that

0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:14.719
<v Speaker 1>show them in hats. Um. And then that standard seems

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 1>to have come into play starting right around the time

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 1>that they died, but then more definitely by the eighteen forties,

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 1>which would have been a little bit after them. So

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 1>that's definitely worth talking about because it's, um, it's totally

0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:32.920
<v Speaker 1>possible that there were people wearing this is sort of

0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:38.360
<v Speaker 1>a local custom, and I my conclusion would be that

0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 1>it's probably simultaneously both local custom and then also it

0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 1>was also like the fashion in France at a time

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.440
<v Speaker 1>to have on little hats, top hats. I think top

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.360
<v Speaker 1>hats are good all the time. Sure, I think we

0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:58.080
<v Speaker 1>should bring them back as fairly standard. Fine by me.

0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps I will start wearing and I will look terribly pretentious,

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 1>but it will be so fun. That does sound fun? Um,

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 1>it is it is. The welch had is a slightly

0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 1>different shape from what you would think of as a

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:12.800
<v Speaker 1>as a top hat, so we will put links the

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 1>show notes so people can go check that out for themselves,

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 1>and then I'm the rest of the letter uh included

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 1>some episode suggestions also, so thank you so much Shannon

0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>for writing in with that. If you would like to

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 1>write to us about this or any other podcast or

0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 1>a history podcast, at how stuff works dot com. We're

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:31.720
<v Speaker 1>also on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash miss in history,

0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and on Twitter at miss in History, our tumbler and

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.720
<v Speaker 1>our Instagram and our pinterest name we are Missing History

0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:40.160
<v Speaker 1>and all of those places. You can come to our

0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 1>parent company's website, which is how stuff works dot com

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.520
<v Speaker 1>to look up information on anything your heart desires. I'm

0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>sure there's lots of cool stuff there about swimming. You

0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 1>can come to our website, which is missing history dot com,

0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 1>and you will find a total archive of everything Holly

0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:58.120
<v Speaker 1>and I have ever done on the show, and all

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 1>of the work of past hosts, of which they were many.

0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 1>You'll find show notes for all the episodes that Holly

0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 1>and I have worked on together. We will find some

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:07.840
<v Speaker 1>other cool stuff there too, so you can do all

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:09.960
<v Speaker 1>that and a whole lot more at how stuff works

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:17.640
<v Speaker 1>dot com or missed in history dot com For more

0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:19.800
<v Speaker 1>on this and thousands of other topics. VI is it

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:29.400
<v Speaker 1>how stuff works? Dot com