1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I am Akshatrati. This week steel stealth 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: and flattening the carbon curve. This summer, I spent three 3 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: weeks traveling around the US visiting climate startups. Today, I'm 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: going to tell you the story of one of them, 5 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: a secretive company called Electra that operates out of a 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: suburban office park in Colorado. Electra is taking on a massive, 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: often unrecognized problem, decarbonizing steel, an industry worth nearly one 8 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: trillion dollars that accounts for seven percent of global greenhouse 9 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: gas emissions. The vast majority of those emissions come from 10 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: the first step in the process of making steel, converting 11 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: iron ore to iron. What a pitch to him is like, 12 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: I had four ideas. Actually, to be honest with you, 13 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: the first idea I was explaining to him was around 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: iron steel of electrification at low temperature. And he said, 15 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: let me stop you right there, I'm already sold. That's 16 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: Sundeep Nichhaven, co founder of Electra, describing a conversation with 17 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: his first investor, who was sold on the radical simplicity 18 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: of Whatsonde was proposing zero carbon steel using iron produced 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: at low temperature. Since that initial pitch Electra has gone 20 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: on to raise eighty five million dollars. What attracts people 21 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: to Electra is the fact that not only can zero 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: carbon steels solve a climate problem, but that it also 23 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: has the potential to make a lot of money. That's 24 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: one reason why Electra has been in stealth mode for 25 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: the last two years. It did not want any of 26 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: its ideas stolen. Now the company is finally talking because 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: its idea has gone from a PowerPoint presentation to working 28 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: at lab scale. What's the innovation. Coal plays a big 29 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: part of making steel today. It is used to melt 30 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: iron ore in a furnace and also to extract unwanted 31 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: oxygen atoms. Coal provides both the fuel for heat and 32 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: the carbon for extracting oxygen in the process, forming huge 33 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: amounts of carbon dioxide. Electros technology gets rid of both 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: the furnace and the coal. Instead, it uses only renewable 35 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: electricity and completes the reaction of making iron from iron 36 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: ore at temperatures cooler than sixty degrees celsius, no molten metal, 37 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: no carbon emissions, and nothing hotter than your coffee. Crazy 38 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: huh I talked to some leap about how he came 39 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: up with this idea, built a team in the middle 40 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: of the pandemic and what the steel town of the 41 00:02:49,840 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: future will look for Sunny, Welcome to the show. Thanks 42 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: such please, we're here now. You're trying to solve a 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: problem that most people don't think about, but it is 44 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: a massive problem for the climate, and that is how 45 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: to make steel without having emissions. Let's start with stating 46 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: out the problem though. Why is it that steel is 47 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: such a big problem for climate change? Sure, steel is 48 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: the backbone of modern society. Steel is one of the 49 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: hardest to abate sectors, and we produce about one point 50 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: nine billion tons of steel each year. Why is there 51 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: a CEO two problem at all? There is no COO 52 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: two coming in this process. As far as most people 53 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: would understand, the process, steel is actually ninety eight percent ron. 54 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: The way the steel is made today is through a 55 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: pyrometallergy process that uses coal energy. We first melt the 56 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: iron or at about sixteen hundred degrees celsius using coal 57 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: as a source of energy, and that carbon is also 58 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: used to then refine or reduce or transform iron ore 59 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: into pure iron. And that's because iron ore is mostly 60 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: iron and oxygen combined. Whereas what you want for steelmaking, 61 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: it's pure iron or iron mixed with some small other elements. 62 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: That's correct. So from a problem streatment perspective, what this 63 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: translates to is ninety percent of steels emission come from 64 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: refining the iron ore into iron to mix steel. Now, 65 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: it's intuitive that if you use coal to remove the 66 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: oxygen from iron ore, and that coal then ends up 67 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: into CO two emissions, we don't want to use coal. 68 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: There are being solutions that have been put forward where 69 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: people use hydrogen stead because hydrogen can also do the 70 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 1: same job and convert the hydrogen and oxygen mixture into water, 71 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: which does not contribute to climate change. So if we 72 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: have that solution, why try something else? First of all, 73 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean steel is a two billion ton market one dollars, 74 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: So I think what leads multiple solutions to come to 75 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: a resolution or transformation or how are we going to 76 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: do that? Having said that, a hydrogen As we know, 77 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: one of the challenges with hydrogen is it's availability and cost. 78 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: So to get to zero green premium steel, you need 79 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: hydrogen add a dollar a quilo when itself. When you 80 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: say zero green premium, you're basically saying at the same 81 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: cost as steel that can be made using coal correct 82 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: without any carbon subsidy. You need dollar akuilo hydrogen to 83 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: do that. But even more important, the issue of transforming 84 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: our global steel production to an hydrogen based process comes 85 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: down to the availability of ores that are needed to 86 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: make hydrogen based steel green steel. And the reason that 87 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: becomes a problem is that hydrogen risk process needs the 88 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: highest grade of iron content available in the ores to 89 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: make that happen, and the world is running out of 90 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: high grade ores that are available for steelmaking. At the 91 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: same time, it's not that the world doesn't have iron ore. 92 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: I mean, our planet is made of iron and there's 93 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: plenty of iron ore. It's that it has certain grades 94 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: of ore that cannot be economically processed, which is that 95 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: there are a lot of impurities, a lot of impurities, 96 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: and impurities are like phosphorous, impurities are hy silica, high alumina. 97 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: For example. There is eight billion tons of reserves of 98 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: high fast containing ores in just one country like Australia, 99 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: but that is worldwide. You will find these kinds of ores. Okay, 100 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: so you're not using hydrogen to make your carbon free steel. 101 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: What is your solution that has got investors giving you 102 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: eighty million dollars to solve it. What we have is 103 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: what's starting with a clean sheet design a process to 104 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: electrify iron making using widely available lower grade ores and 105 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: radically shifting the operating temperature of the process from sixteen 106 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: hundred degrees to sixty degrees celsius and thereby displacing the 107 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: carbon intensive coal energy with renewable energy to make pure iron. 108 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: And your process has no fire attached to it, all green. 109 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: It is low temperature. In fact, you could touch it, 110 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: and I mean it is as benign from a temperature 111 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: perspective you can get. Yeah, your coffee is brewed at 112 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: higher temperature. Coffee is brewed at eye temperature. Absolutely. So 113 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: you go from the process as it exists today, where 114 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: you take iron or burn coal heated to sixteen hundred 115 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: degree celsius create iron, and in the process even steel. 116 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: It's a one place process. Iron or comes into a plant, 117 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: it goes through a series of steps and outcomes steel. 118 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: You're splitting that process into two steps. You're making only 119 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: iron first and then somebody else will make the steal. 120 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: But because iron making is ninety percent of emissions, that's 121 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: the step you want to attack with your solution. That's correct, 122 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: That's where the problem is. Where it is how do 123 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: we get to pure iron without having emissions? Okay, so 124 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: you're not using hydrogen. You're not going to heat this 125 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: to sixteen hundred degrees celsius, but keep it at sixty 126 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: two celsius. You're going to use electricity. Whereas that electricity 127 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: coming from because most electricity generation even today has carbon 128 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: dioxide emissions attached to it. Yeah. What we bring you 129 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: forth is our ability to use intermittent renewable electricity, which 130 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: is of course now increasably available at Kale. So this 131 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: is solar and wind. Correct needs a solar and wind. 132 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: If hydro is available, we'll use hydro as well. But 133 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: what is the cheapest form of zero carbon electricity is 134 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: intermittent solar and wind today. Period. Let's talk about how 135 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,239 Speaker 1: you arrived at this solution in the first place, because 136 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: you weren't making steel before this. Your previous companies had 137 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: to do with hydrogen production and energy storage, So why 138 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: go down the route of making steel? Yeah. So my 139 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: background is in electrochemical conversion systems. So one of those 140 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: batteries storage companies that I had was developing an iron 141 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: based battery storage. It was actually specifically nickel iron. So 142 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: that's Edison's chemistry under de year sold highly robust chemistry, 143 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: but iron is the means in which you're storing the energy. 144 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: So I know a few things, not half, but a 145 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: few things about iron, I would say, And my career 146 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: of other doing energy storage or hydrogen, we're all tied 147 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: towards decarbonization as a professional goal, and that being the 148 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: north star of my career. And Electra is really continuation 149 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: of the journey in terms of picking one of the 150 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: hardest to abate sectors and then if there is a 151 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: solution to be had, then making a big impact with it. 152 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: And so you come to this point where you're like, Okay, 153 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: this is a big problem. I need to solve this. Yeah. 154 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: So I started thinking about this at the peak of 155 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: the pandemic in March twenty twenty. So you remember, how 156 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: can we flatten the curve? Remember flattening the curve? We 157 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: feel like, if we can get America to all pitch 158 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: in for the next fifteen days, we can flatten the curve, 159 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: which is a term that you've been hearing a lot, 160 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: not overwhelm our healthcare systems. And I was basically Okay, 161 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: that's great. I'm not a biologist. I can really impact 162 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: the thing. What can I do to flatten the global 163 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: temperature that has been rising and is expected to go 164 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: to two degrees cells? And that's where I said, well, 165 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: let's pick the problem like steel, which can have a 166 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: huge impact. I remember in Match twenty twenty, I was 167 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: just worried that we may not be able to find 168 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: a vaccine. You know, I am a climate journalist. I 169 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: was thinking about climate change, but I wasn't thinking about 170 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: starting a company that would transolve a climate problem rather 171 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: than a vaccine problem. While you know, pandemic was not 172 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: the place I would wish to have again ever, but 173 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: I was through a transition of my previous companies. There 174 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: was not a whole lot. You can go on a 175 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: vacation or set on a beach and do a whole 176 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: lot of things. So there was plenty of time to 177 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: sort of think and sort of refine my thinking of 178 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: what can be done here. And I don't have a 179 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: background in steelmaking, but as an entrepreneur, I'm a very 180 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: fast learner. And so you thought about it, You thought 181 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: about the problem, and you made a PowerPoint presentation. That's correct. 182 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: There were seven slides in it, and it was actually 183 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: a five minute conversation with our lead investor, which is 184 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: Bill Gates founded Breakthrough and Energy Ventures in particular Dave 185 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: Danians in there. And what I pitched to him is 186 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: like I had four ideas. Actually, to be honest with you, 187 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: steel was one of them, and I said, I need 188 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: thirty minutes to walk you through some of these ideas 189 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: I have. First idea I was explaining to him was 190 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: around iron and steel of electrification at low temperature. And 191 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: he said, let me stop you right there, and he said, 192 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: you don't have to go any further than that. I'm 193 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: already sold. If you could do this thing, that's what 194 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: I want to do. I don't want to hear the 195 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: next three ideas. And that was a journey we started 196 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: on in March thirteen, twenty twenty, the day before California 197 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: shut down, right, okay, And that was my first and 198 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: only investor meeting, phase to phase I ever had for 199 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: the next two years. Okay. And so how big a 200 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: check did he get? Our first check at the seed 201 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: was two point two five million, not just from Breakthrough 202 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: but number of investors, and my pitch to all of 203 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: them was look, I don't know if this can be done. 204 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: I've thought through the problem and ask the experts. I 205 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: think there's a feasibility path. But all I need is 206 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: less than ten people, maybe a year, year and a 207 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: half to run this thing to ground, to prove to 208 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: myself first can this be done? Because if this cannot 209 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: be done, I have idea number two, three, and four 210 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: to work on and they're also big problems to solve. 211 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: And we had the money in the bank by end 212 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: of June. Essentially it took us three and a half 213 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: months to close that round. And then what did you 214 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: do next? Because you needed more people, you needed some science. 215 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: The success of any thing, at the end of the 216 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: day comes to the team, right, So we need people 217 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: who can essentially think through a problem, picked on a 218 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: problem like this, find the fatalities and solve them in 219 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: the right sequence. Because you don't have time or the 220 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: money to boil the ocean, so you have to really 221 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: think through what needs to happen, what has to be 222 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: met to move forward. Okay, that there is a path 223 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: forward here. Of course, we started in a garage. No, 224 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 1: it really was a garage. I mean that's a Silicon 225 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: valley stereotype. It is not a stereotype. It is the 226 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: real answer because it's one of our employees that later 227 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: joined as employee. He was started as a consultant, and 228 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: of course some of these folks started without getting paid 229 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: because we didn't have money to pay them. And the 230 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: idea was if he could raise the money, you know, 231 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: you will have an opportunity to think about you want 232 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: to join full timent on because it's a very high 233 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: risk project. Some of them had full time jobs and 234 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: this is pandemic, you know. I remember people are losing jobs, 235 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: a lot of instability in the economy, and people were 236 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: hunkering down in terms of keeping their head about the water. Right. 237 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: So it was one of the employees that we have 238 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: today his garage and he's also has a machine shop 239 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: there that he makes parts with on its free time. 240 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: He makes drones actually at a hobby. So it was 241 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: very convenient garage where we can build parts and we 242 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: can start making our test equipment and sells. Of course, 243 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: we cannot do certain things in the garage from safety perspective, 244 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: so we had to wait to get to a real 245 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: laboratory where we can run experiments. So beyond the PowerPoint 246 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: did you really have a plan for how you would 247 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: solve the problem? Look, I did have a starting point, right, 248 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: So it was in this case almost ignorance was a bliss. 249 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: What you don't know, you don't know. But what you're 250 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: promising to the investor is luck. We will run this 251 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: thing to ground. We will figure out every possible plan 252 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: of attack. And I knew exactly when I started who 253 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: the best person would be that could do it. That 254 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: person was Quak Pham, who we met on our tour 255 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: of the company. Do I need to introduce myself? Yeah, 256 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: so you're name for me, I'm quick Fam. I'm a 257 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: chief technology officer and co founder of electrac So welcome. 258 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: Quak was at another company that I actually had a 259 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: non solicit I actually could not go to Quak and 260 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: bring him and say, Quak com please join me. That 261 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: would be violation of my contract. It was actually around 262 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: early August that Quak called me, but not me calling him. 263 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: Quak called him like, Okay, I'm done. I want to 264 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: do something different, and I said, well, timing is perfect, 265 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: and here's what I am thinking. What Sunnips thinking was 266 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: maybe they could make iron the way other metals are made, 267 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: like zinc, aluminum, and copper. They're all made using electricity. 268 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: But when you come to iron, this becomes really a 269 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: mess because iron does not behave like the other metals. Remember, 270 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: iron ore is made of iron and oxygen. To get 271 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: the pure iron that you need to make the steel, 272 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: you have to separate iron from oxygen. That can be 273 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: accomplished with electricity, which is the promise Sunday made two investors. 274 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: But you cannot pass electricity through solid iron ore. You 275 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: need to dissolve iron ore in a liquid, first, an acid. 276 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: In this case. Figuring out how to dissolve iron ore 277 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: in acid was Quak's first job the moment we get 278 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: the lab space. The very first experiment that I rank 279 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: in the lab was to verify can we even dissolve 280 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: I know and not too much. To my surprise, we 281 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: could not, And so I remember going to Sunday's office 282 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: and I told him, Hey, I have a bad news 283 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: for you. Need to sit down. We cannot dissolve iron 284 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: or so, which means that forget about what we plan 285 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: to do, because that's the very first step. It doesn't 286 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: happen in a story. So I joke with him that 287 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: could have been my shortest thought up life ever, but 288 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: upting the fact that it doesn't dissolve, accepting that I 289 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,239 Speaker 1: may have a short job opportunity. Here, let's see if 290 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: I can tone a situation around. And he did turn 291 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: the situation around. In a few months, Electra had the 292 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: whole process from iron ore to iron made with only 293 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: electricity working on a lab bench. Now Electro does not 294 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: want to share the secret sauce of how they made 295 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: it happen, but I spoke to experts who reviewed parts 296 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: of the technology and confirmed it is feasible. And the 297 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: proof is in the pudding. When electricity is used for 298 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: this process, the iron oxide is broken into oxygen, which 299 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: is released as a gas, and iron which is plated 300 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: onto an electrode. I got to see those plates. Yeah 301 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: please with the silvery gray metal on them. Yeah, I 302 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: don't think I have a helpier and in this form 303 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: of first small ones the size of business cards, and 304 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: then large ones the size of office paper. I even 305 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: held them in my hands and surprise, surprise, it's heavy. 306 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: They were heavy. Before it can be commercial, those plates 307 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: will have to be much larger, something like three feet 308 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: by three feet. After the break, I talked to us 309 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: and Leap about how all this goes from the lap 310 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: bench to a factory in a town near you. And 311 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: each of those steps that you had to solve those 312 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: were known science. It's just that the combination of those 313 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: known science steps done in the specific way that you 314 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: have done, is what is the core innovation of electra. 315 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: That's correct. We are not inventing new science. We are 316 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: not inventing new catalysts, we are not inventing new on 317 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: optanium material. Every aspect of science, all the material systems 318 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: that we are needed to make this innovation happen is 319 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: readily available. Parts of it are used in different processes, 320 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: and our real innovation is bringing this all together to 321 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: solve the problem. Iron and steel especially is a very 322 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: cheap commodity. Yes, it has a climate problem, and it's 323 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: a cheap commodity because we have to use it at 324 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: such a scale. So you had to use every step 325 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: to be such a cheap, easy to do step that 326 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: you could replicate the cost of steel as you can 327 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: buy it from the market today. That is absolutely correct. 328 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: And in addition to that, what I will also add 329 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: less not forget our heads only money for a year, 330 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: so time pressure do or die in a startup is real. 331 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: You don't have ten years to develop the science to 332 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: create a new catalyst, to create a new material. It 333 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: had to be solved or we move on from a 334 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: fatality perspective. That was very important. You have to be 335 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: in that pressure cooker to be on with you rather 336 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: than having in finite time available and resources available to 337 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: see what can be done in a different way. So 338 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one you found a way to try and 339 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: make these different steps work. What have you been doing 340 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: for the last eighteen months. Yeah, So in early twenty 341 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: two Q one or twenty twenty one, we had on 342 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: a bench top the entire process now going all the 343 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: way from or into pure Iland already on place, using 344 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: that process and showing that it can be economically done 345 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: at a price point that the world needs. We then 346 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: went and raised additional capital and we raise twenty eight 347 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: million by June of twenty twenty one, and we brought 348 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: in other investors co investors into our syndicate. So now 349 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: we have total raise eighty two million dollars. Since talking 350 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: to sleep in August, the number has gone up to 351 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: eighty five million dollars. And one of your investors is 352 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: a mining company called BHP. Why is BHP interested in this? 353 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: To be honest, bringing strategic investors very early in the 354 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: startup is not what a typical venture capital community will 355 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: advise you to do. That and I overrule that largely 356 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: knowing or having a gut reaction that ores are going 357 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: to be a big part of the story. So the 358 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: goal of that strategic partnership was to explore what can 359 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: be done from the ore side, and how expansive is 360 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: our process in dealing with impurities, and what kind of 361 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: ores can be used to make green steel. So, if 362 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm hearing you right, your solutions are you use as 363 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: much energy or less energy than the conventional process. That 364 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: energy is electricity that can be intermittent and renewable, so 365 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: it has no carbon attached to it. And you can 366 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: use lower grade iron ore, which is cheaper to get. 367 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: So if you combine that and you scale it up, 368 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: you'll have presented a carbon free, cheaper way to make iron. 369 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: But then you have to make steel, right, that's correct, 370 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: and then the next step is just really mixing it 371 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: in the right order. And the next step is to 372 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: take the iron and again smelt it or melt it 373 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: and then adding other constituents to it to give steel 374 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: its strength. But melting something is a very small amount 375 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: of energy that is needed to make steel. It's very 376 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: counterintuitive to most people. I would think, when you look 377 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: at a hot piece of metal that's been melted, you go, 378 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: oh my god, that would have taken a lot of energy. 379 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: But when you look at iron ore and then you 380 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: look at iron metal, you don't think energy. That's correct 381 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: because what we are not seeing is that the energy 382 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: is predominantly used to split oxygen that is bonded to iron, 383 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: and that's where the bulk of the energy goes to 384 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: get the oxygen out. Now, if you use carbon, it 385 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: makes COO two. If you use electrons, you do not 386 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: produce any COO two, and you can get to pure iron, 387 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: which is again the goal of all of these processes 388 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: is before you can get to steal, when will you 389 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: have your first factory making this carbon free iron and 390 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: hopefully steal after that. We are working on building a pilot, 391 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: and we should have this pilot working in twenty twenty three. 392 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: This will be an industrial scale pilot. And what I 393 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: mean by that I need to clarify is that it 394 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: will have iron plates that are being produced a low 395 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: temperature process, which are meter square type of area, and 396 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: the goal of that pilot is to stress test the 397 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: design of the commercial plant we're actually doing at this point. 398 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: So we need a place where we can stress test 399 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: all the design in terms of what works, what doesn't work, 400 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: and how do we scale that up to a full 401 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: commercial scale. So what you're describing is very different from 402 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: how people think of steel because the steel industry as 403 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: it exists has created entire towns that are steel towns 404 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: where the only job maker is a steel factory, and 405 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: it takes up a huge amount of land, and that 406 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: land is required for making coal. To pick up coke, 407 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: which is carbon, you require iron ore that has to 408 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: be cleaned up and put into this big furnace at 409 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: sixteen hundred degrees celsius. Then once you get iron out 410 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: of it, then you have to do something else to 411 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: make steel. All of that is a huge amount of investment. 412 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: Are you saying that you can now make iron in 413 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: a very small plant now? I would say in terms 414 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: of it's more distributed, that it is modular in the 415 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: sense that you don't need to create an integrated plant 416 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: that has all of these feedstocks coming in in a 417 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: plant and then steel goes out. So what this allows 418 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: you to do is do this in a distributed way, 419 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: just the way he of steelmaking is done. Yeah, can 420 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: you explain what EAF is. Yeah, So EF is electric 421 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: arc furnace. It is the electricity powered arc furnace that 422 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: is used to melt scrap or r pure ron and 423 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: make into steel. Thirty percent of steel is made using 424 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: EF steelmaking. It's a wild process as well. We'll see 425 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: sparks flying everywhere. It's giant and it's very noisy. And 426 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: once the process is done, you see this like molten 427 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: metal being poured down from that unit. It's just yeah, 428 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: it's a wild, wild thing. It happens everywhere. It's it's 429 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: just that not many people get to see it. Yeah, 430 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: I mean that's the way steel is made. I mean 431 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: an alternative. You also may have seen molten iron getting 432 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: poured out of blast furnaces, and that's the image we 433 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: have grown up looking at ron. It's hot, almost the 434 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: image of fire. And of course all of that is 435 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: coming from carbon intensity and CO two that goes along 436 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: with it. So in terms of job creation, this is 437 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: actually still a lot of job creation because this is 438 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: manufacturing jobs. That plant aren't making plant I'm talking about 439 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: it's going to have fifty years life, so it is 440 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: going to create a town around it where you will 441 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: have renewal electricity coming to their green jobs. From that side, 442 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: you are an or being supplied, so that is not 443 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: going away, and we are using green energy and ores 444 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: to produce pure rn for next fifty years at that plant. 445 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: And the Inflation Reduction Act or the biggest climate bill 446 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: that the US has passed, will that help you in 447 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: any way? Oh? Absolutely, I would say that is the 448 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: most excising things I have seen in the climate tech 449 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: space in fifteen years of history I've had. There is 450 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: seven billion of investment that I have been set aside 451 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: to help decarbonize hard to abate industry like ours. So 452 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: steel is included, cement is included, and I'm planning to 453 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: go to DC to start having conversations with policymakers that 454 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: there is another way to get to green steel that 455 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: doesn't involve all the known things we have had, which 456 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: is hydrogen, which is part of big tax credit that 457 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: is already in the Inflation Reduction Act, or carbon capture 458 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: or sequestration. That's also part of what's in the Inflation 459 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: Reduction Act and the solutions like ours that from first 460 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: principle do not produce the CEO two emissions that you're 461 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: trying to abate through all of the tax credit that 462 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act is offering. So conversation I want to 463 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: have with the policymakers is on that front is how 464 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: can we be part of that equation to also accelerate 465 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: and promote technologies like ours to get to scale faster. 466 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: That was a great conversation. Thanks for the tour and 467 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: good luck with scaling up. Thank you. It's a pleasure 468 00:28:52,360 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: to host you at side and have this conversation. The 469 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: fact that the US Climate Bill as it exists today 470 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: does not even account for the idea that you can 471 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: make steal without emissions from the get go shows how 472 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: fast technology is moving and coming out of stealth is 473 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: just the very beginning. Scaling up is hard, and I 474 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: look forward to seeing how electromatures and how the steel 475 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: industry responds. If Electra can pull this off, it will 476 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: be a huge deal. Thanks for listening to Zero. If 477 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: you like the show, please rate, review, and subscribe. Tell 478 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: a friend or tele former colleague who's under a non 479 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: solicit If you've got a suggestion for a guest or topic, 480 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: or something you just want us to look into, get 481 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: in touch at zero pod at lumber dot net. Zero's 482 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: senior producer is Christine Driscoll and producer is Oscar boyd 483 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: Our theme song is composed by Wonderney. Many people help 484 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: make this show a success, and each week I'll tell 485 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: you about one of them. This week special thanks to 486 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: Aaron Rutkoff, who is the executive editor of Green. Although 487 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: his cultural references land one out of three times, his 488 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: editorial suggestions are always on the point. I'm Akshadrati back 489 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: next week.