Speaker 1: Scrap on your parachute. It's time for What Goes Up
Speaker 1: with Sarah Ponz and Mike Reagan. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: What Goes Up, a Bloomberg Weekly markets podcast. I'm Sarah Pons,
Speaker 1: reporter on the Cross Asset team, and I'm Mike Reagan,
Speaker 1: a senior editor at Bloomberg. And you know, Sara, it
Speaker 1: occurds me that a lot of people that listen to
Speaker 1: the show might not realize what a senior editor is.
Speaker 1: So I'll explain that it just means I'm old. It's
Speaker 1: it's another word for old editor. It's more than that.
Speaker 1: It's more than that. It is take it, take it
Speaker 1: to heart if you say so. I'm getting sensitive about
Speaker 1: my age and I've got I've got one of those
Speaker 1: rail number birthdays coming up. It's it's caused me a
Speaker 1: lot of anxiety, a lot of reflection rail number resistance,
Speaker 1: if you will. Uh but sorry, It's made me think
Speaker 1: a lot about sort of this generation divide we have
Speaker 1: now in the markets, with sort of the younger people
Speaker 1: doing the Wall Street bets Reddit type of trades. And
Speaker 1: I don't know how you know true that is. That
Speaker 1: might be a stereotype, but for what it's worth. That's
Speaker 1: that's what the stereotype is. And then you have the
Speaker 1: old guys in the market. Um, And I've been thinking
Speaker 1: about you, Sarah, because I feel like it's it must
Speaker 1: be frustrating for you because no matter you know how
Speaker 1: much progress has been made for you to do your job,
Speaker 1: you still have to talk to a bunch of old
Speaker 1: guys like me fairly regularly. You know, it's not maybe
Speaker 1: not be right, might not be fair, but you have
Speaker 1: to sort of communicate with old guys like me. And
Speaker 1: what do you what do you think of our generation?
Speaker 1: You think we just don't want to talk to any
Speaker 1: anyone income on Mike you're not old. Well, here's what
Speaker 1: I what made me think about it is is whenever
Speaker 1: you get two old guys together, say I don't know
Speaker 1: on this podcast and you at some point we all
Speaker 1: start just communicating in old movie lines. You know, it's like,
Speaker 1: and I know you, it's got to be frustrating to
Speaker 1: hear two old guys all of a sudden sound like
Speaker 1: they're speaking another language, but really they're just like quoting
Speaker 1: Caddyshack or something. I just get confused. But by this point,
Speaker 1: usually if there's something I don't understand, and if it's
Speaker 1: a reference, I just gotta step back, let you do
Speaker 1: your thing and move on. But I'm here to help you.
Speaker 1: I think we should open up the podcast hotline, not
Speaker 1: just for the craziest things people saw on markets this week,
Speaker 1: but if you have an old man movie suggestion for Sarah,
Speaker 1: call us up and let us know. What do you think. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a good time to let you know. I'm actually
Speaker 1: off next week, so to give me all the movie
Speaker 1: suggestions of all the time in the world, and I'll
Speaker 1: watch them all. I'm gonna regret saying that. I think
Speaker 1: we'll get some. I think we'll get some. And if
Speaker 1: you have some sort of millennial movie suggestions for me,
Speaker 1: I'm in the market too. I'm open to all of that.
Speaker 1: So hit us up on the What Goes Up Podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll give you the number at the end of the show.
Speaker 1: That way, we'll make you stick around for the entire show.
Speaker 1: But sorry, if you're an old guy these days, it's
Speaker 1: also frustrating because if you have teenage children, all they
Speaker 1: want to do right now is trade, whether it be
Speaker 1: crypto or getting on Robin hood and and Wall Street
Speaker 1: bets on Reddit. All they want to do is trade,
Speaker 1: and they look at us. Dad's like, you idiot. If
Speaker 1: only you would let me trade, we could all be
Speaker 1: driving Lambeau's right now, Everyone in the house would have
Speaker 1: a Lambeau. If dad would just let me trade. The dog,
Speaker 1: the family dog could have its own Lambeau just to still,
Speaker 1: you know, chewing the six shift. Whatever the dog would
Speaker 1: do Lambeau. But so we've got some great guests this
Speaker 1: week who I know are going through this very dynamic.
Speaker 1: It happened in my house to my My daughter wants
Speaker 1: to trade. She wants to get in there and buy
Speaker 1: some Tesla and she thinks she can make enough money
Speaker 1: to buy herself with Tesla. Is is her goal? Um,
Speaker 1: And I know a colleague of ours is going through
Speaker 1: the same thing at home, and he had a very
Speaker 1: interesting way of dealing with this issue. So let's bring
Speaker 1: him in and he'll talk about it with us. And
Speaker 1: we're very very lucky that not only do we have him,
Speaker 1: but we have his son on the other end of
Speaker 1: the trade here. So let's welcome to him to the show.
Speaker 1: He's been on before. He's a hedge fund trader for years,
Speaker 1: Currency macro, all sorts of bond equity, futures, you name it.
Speaker 1: He's an expert on all sorts of Macro products. He's
Speaker 1: in fact our own Macroman columnist at Bloomberg. His name
Speaker 1: is Cameron Christ. Cameron, welcome back to the show. Always
Speaker 1: a pleasure to be here. And like you, Mike, I'm
Speaker 1: having a milestone birthday, the very same milestone birthday this year.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna We're not gonna name it, but I
Speaker 1: think anyone who sees this can probably can probably guess it,
Speaker 1: and uh, well, happy early birthday. And Sarah, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna go ahead and give you a
Speaker 1: movie recommendation that I know, Michael and Doris, you gotta
Speaker 1: see Fletch. I'm already regretting that. I'm already regretting that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a lot of movies by to the day.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of homework. But it will
Speaker 1: make you finally understand where we're coming from. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think when Cavin and I were kids,
Speaker 1: it was like, Hey, it's Thursday night. What are you
Speaker 1: doing to night? Now? I'd be like, well, I'm watching Cheers,
Speaker 1: and the other guy would be like, I'm watching cheers too.
Speaker 1: You know, no one's invented social media yet, or no
Speaker 1: one's invented Netflix. What else are we supposed to do?
Speaker 1: So I think we all have this sort of common
Speaker 1: shared history that uh, in this day of just you know,
Speaker 1: infinite entertainment is not the same that That's my big
Speaker 1: thought on on that issue. So uh, you know, call
Speaker 1: the podcast and tell me how I'm wrong about that.
Speaker 1: But that's in one corner. We're there. We have our
Speaker 1: Macromn Cameron Christ. In the other corner, we have his
Speaker 1: son who is itching to be a trader, and I'm
Speaker 1: wishing him all the luck, all the luck in the world.
Speaker 1: His name is Patrick Christ. Patrick, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here. I'm uh great. How can
Speaker 1: you be able to share my opinion and the opinions
Speaker 1: of many others my age? All right, well, now we're
Speaker 1: gonna pit you against your dad, so so bring it.
Speaker 1: But Karen, why you just started off here, Kick it
Speaker 1: off and walk us through this bet that the two
Speaker 1: of you had going on over the past week or
Speaker 1: so and how it came to be. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: were got to talking over the proverbial dinner table as
Speaker 1: as it were about the whole Wall Street bets phenomenon
Speaker 1: and games stop and how crazy the pricing was. And
Speaker 1: I said, well, it's obviously a bubble and it's obviously
Speaker 1: going to end badly. And Patrick, Uh, who is a
Speaker 1: an enthusiastic consumer of reddit uh content, Uh disagreed. Now,
Speaker 1: ordinarily I would have said, well, why don't you just
Speaker 1: take a little position and and and learn the hard way. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: or fortunately as it turned out, for Patrick, he has
Speaker 1: to abide by the same trading restrictions that Bloomberg imposes
Speaker 1: that I do, which involves minimum holding periods, can't trade
Speaker 1: calls or puts. Really and uh if he if he
Speaker 1: would have trade something, I couldn't write about it. So
Speaker 1: it kind of it really was a non starter for
Speaker 1: him to to go on Robin Hood and uh and
Speaker 1: and actually take a position. So we kinda we made
Speaker 1: a bet in in in the best trading places um tradition.
Speaker 1: You must know that one, Sarah, come on, you must
Speaker 1: know trading places. So look, this truth is I do not.
Speaker 1: And the reason I can tell you this is because
Speaker 1: we have the caller for the craziest things at the
Speaker 1: end of the show, and we are going to hear
Speaker 1: a quote from trading places. But that's all I say
Speaker 1: for so I digress. So anyway, and that should that
Speaker 1: should be top of her list. Absolutely so. And I
Speaker 1: will say that tried to make me watch it. I
Speaker 1: last about fifteen minutes. Patrick, you're the man. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: as you know, as you know, Mike. Uh, and maybe
Speaker 1: you'll know at some point, Sarah, the best way to
Speaker 1: get your kid not to do some thing is to
Speaker 1: tell them to do it. Um anyhow, at least anyhow
Speaker 1: invest trading place of tradition. I figured we'd make we'd
Speaker 1: make a bet. So we had this conversation Tuesday of
Speaker 1: last week when Game Stopped closed, thinking about one forty
Speaker 1: seven or something like that. Uh, And Patrick said, well,
Speaker 1: it's easy, gonna go over two hundred tomorrow And I said,
Speaker 1: no way, man. So we sat in over under for
Speaker 1: Game Stops closing share price on Wednesday of two hundred,
Speaker 1: and we bet a dollar. So that was one leg
Speaker 1: of the bet. Second leg of the second leg of
Speaker 1: the bet is Patrick's play. Well, this is easy because
Speaker 1: all of these Wall Street bet people are piling into
Speaker 1: these stocks, not only Game Stop, but the Blackberries and
Speaker 1: Nokias and a m c S and they're gonna drive
Speaker 1: this stuff crazy high. So I can you know, running
Speaker 1: a shadow portfoile lio, I can double my money in
Speaker 1: three days, i e. By the end of by the
Speaker 1: end of the week. Now mind you return for an
Speaker 1: entire year is epic for someone who does us for
Speaker 1: a living. And here we have boy Genia saying he
Speaker 1: can do it in three days. So that narrated another bet. Uh.
Speaker 1: So we then tracked obviously the market uh for the
Speaker 1: rest of the week, and Patrick triumphed handily in the
Speaker 1: first bet as game Stop closed it I think three
Speaker 1: on on Wednesday. So frankly, if he just put all
Speaker 1: of his money on margin in the game Stop at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the day and uh and closed it
Speaker 1: out on on on Wednesday, he probably would have won
Speaker 1: the second leg of the bet. But alas and a
Speaker 1: lack for him. Uh the Yolo stocks went up and
Speaker 1: then they started to go down, and I think he
Speaker 1: ended up down or something, which, given he was heavily
Speaker 1: heavily margin could have been could have been worse. So
Speaker 1: it ended up being. So you're allowing mar in these
Speaker 1: paper trades. That's interesting. What kind of margin uh rate
Speaker 1: are you giving him. He well, I'll let Patrick discuss
Speaker 1: the he used an app, so I'll let Patrick talk
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I used like an online stock simulator. UM.
Speaker 1: And I'm entirely sure what the margin rate is. I
Speaker 1: think my UM, I think it was most like a
Speaker 1: negative a hundred thousand dollars for cash given a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars starting value, So I assume it's And for
Speaker 1: the record, I wanted the best to be higher. I
Speaker 1: was going. I was willing to bet a game stop
Speaker 1: stock for whatever. Friend who would end up that you
Speaker 1: want to yea rather for there's a lesson risk management.
Speaker 1: Because he wanted me to bet like a dollar per
Speaker 1: h per difference. So for every dollar the game stock
Speaker 1: was ready from the over under, he wanted to bet
Speaker 1: a dollar. And I mean, obviously I knew that if
Speaker 1: I was wrong, I would probably be spectacularly wrong. So
Speaker 1: I tapped my losses at a dollar. So, young grasshopper,
Speaker 1: let that be a lesson. Yeah, I had this. This
Speaker 1: son of your son of yours has a future. I
Speaker 1: think in this business camera. I like I like his
Speaker 1: instincts there. I like the levered up instinct. If you
Speaker 1: can triple lever on game Stop. I want to start
Speaker 1: a triple levered Wall Street Betsy t F and I'm
Speaker 1: sure that would go. It would go so well. It
Speaker 1: is an apt um manifestation of this phenomenon because Robin Hood,
Speaker 1: I believe when you sign up, the basic account they
Speaker 1: give you is automatically a margin account, and I think
Speaker 1: there's probably something a little wrong with that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of going going in pretty heavy, pretty early.
Speaker 1: So the wait, So, Patrick, we know you won the
Speaker 1: game Stop bet, but walk us through how you went
Speaker 1: about trying to craft or portfolio to make a hundred
Speaker 1: percent in three days. What kind of stops were you
Speaker 1: looking at? Why did you choose the ones did? How
Speaker 1: did you position? Give us some color there? Um. So,
Speaker 1: my initial idea was to go all on game Stop exclusively.
Speaker 1: Game Stop A fan bought around uh six fifty shares
Speaker 1: of it at well. I tried to buy it whatever
Speaker 1: it ended on on Tuesday, but I only get it
Speaker 1: um like to nine on Wednesday. Um So, at first
Speaker 1: I tried to go solely for game Stop um because
Speaker 1: I thought it would have the best returns. But then
Speaker 1: you know, I I took personal finance earlier this year.
Speaker 1: You know, we were supposed to diversify your portfolio, so
Speaker 1: I go. I decided to go for some other stocks.
Speaker 1: You know, you're AMC, You're BlackBerry, Are you no kids?
Speaker 1: Real diversification? Um, So I bought. I remember exactly how much.
Speaker 1: I think I tried to get, like twenty dollars worth
Speaker 1: of each um and then you know, however many probably
Speaker 1: about eighty or ninety game Stop um. And I think
Speaker 1: the diversification actually harmed me in the long run, because
Speaker 1: games I was much more problem Yeah, um, I think
Speaker 1: I peak. I was up sometime on Thursday, so I
Speaker 1: could have cash out and made a saw a profit.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to win the bet um.
Speaker 1: But then well, game Stop was still going up. My
Speaker 1: diversified stocks started going down, so I was I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure if I should sell, and ultimately, you know, I
Speaker 1: lost the bet. Hey you're you're one and one. You
Speaker 1: won one bet. I gotta tell you, I I was
Speaker 1: when I heard about this. I was rooting for you
Speaker 1: from the get go, and I'll tell you why now
Speaker 1: You're Dad is known as the Macroman. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of macro men and women out there. Um. Go
Speaker 1: to a pub in London at like four oh one,
Speaker 1: and you'll you'll see a lot of them maybe four
Speaker 1: oh two. Um, they all think they can trade stocks, right, Cameron,
Speaker 1: All macro traders believe they they consecretly trade start Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's funny because on a professional basis,
Speaker 1: I would actually almost argue the opposite. It's just the
Speaker 1: nature of the way that macro has evolved over the
Speaker 1: over the prickly and since the crisis. It's like you're
Speaker 1: only allowed to be short stocks if you're a macro person,
Speaker 1: which given what the stock markets done over the last
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen years, it's kind of trading with both arms
Speaker 1: and both legs tied behind your tied behind your back.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's probably fair to say that, uh,
Speaker 1: most macro people look at the sort of analysis that
Speaker 1: goes on in uh the equity space and think thinks
Speaker 1: it's a little maybe a little shallow, and that the
Speaker 1: equity people are the beneficiaries of of cheap money and
Speaker 1: cheap insight rather than any fundamental, uh profound truths of
Speaker 1: the universe. That's that's just talking stocks. Not even get
Speaker 1: in the stay make it very clear with the end, Patrick,
Speaker 1: I know, I mean you have a leg up because
Speaker 1: you have a dad who works in the industry. But
Speaker 1: when did you become interested in all of this? And
Speaker 1: would you say that that increased over the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, last couple of months even uh? And I mean,
Speaker 1: is this something that you talk about with your friends
Speaker 1: a lot and give us give us a sense to that. Um.
Speaker 1: So I'd say that my interest in trading kind of
Speaker 1: spawned off with my interest in economics. Obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: I had some interest because my dad's a trader. So
Speaker 1: we talked about that sporadically back to the economics last year,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed it. Um. And one of the
Speaker 1: things we talked about occasionally, uh with the stock market
Speaker 1: and how economic transmit into its lat For example, when
Speaker 1: the coronavirus hit, we were talking about whether it's a
Speaker 1: supply shock, um, because you know, we weren't really sure
Speaker 1: what it was. We're trying to analyze it through an
Speaker 1: economic lens and see how it how it would recover.
Speaker 1: Based on that, UM. So, I kind of I had
Speaker 1: a portfolio that was a little more orthodox last year
Speaker 1: or sometime. I don't really remember what happened to it,
Speaker 1: I think, and I forgot it. Um, but yeah, this year,
Speaker 1: the past couple of weeks, it's definitely been Um, my
Speaker 1: interest has definitely been picking up. Yeah, I'm a lot
Speaker 1: of my friends are interesting too. We've talked about in
Speaker 1: a couple of my classes school. Um. But contrary to
Speaker 1: what I feel, a lot of people in the industry
Speaker 1: thrink think not everyone's on the same side of game stop. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, a couple of my friends, uh my literature
Speaker 1: group chat are actually you know if they think they
Speaker 1: think it's what Wall Street Bets is doing is illegal.
Speaker 1: And Patrick, you're you're in high school, you're really like
Speaker 1: a junior senior something like that. Senior senior. Okay, And
Speaker 1: I want to dive into that idea you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: and and the media sometimes gets this stuff wrong, let's
Speaker 1: be honest. But you know, there's been this narrative in
Speaker 1: the media that it's kind of a sort of David
Speaker 1: versus Goliath almost there's this sort of you know, moral
Speaker 1: side of the Wall Street Bets trying to take on
Speaker 1: take on the man, take on the suits. Um. I
Speaker 1: gotta say, you know, Sarah, back in the day that
Speaker 1: that would have been something I would be be interested
Speaker 1: into you can tell I'm getting old though, because I'm
Speaker 1: not really interested in sticking it to the man anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm like, someone's gonna get hurt. Someone's gonna get hurt.
Speaker 1: Don't right, But Patrick, is how big of an an
Speaker 1: element is that? Is it really sort of this this
Speaker 1: moral aspect to it, you know, of of taking on
Speaker 1: sort of the power structure in the economy. Or is
Speaker 1: it just guys and girls having fun and and trying
Speaker 1: to make money? I mean, is it is it really
Speaker 1: that simple, just that motivation to make a few bucks,
Speaker 1: or is there something more? From your opinion, I think
Speaker 1: it's somewhere in between. Um, And you don't worry, You're
Speaker 1: not alone. My dad also kind of hold the same
Speaker 1: kind as you. Kevin. That was your son calling you old.
Speaker 1: I believe it wasn't the first time I wanted to last.
Speaker 1: So among the Wall Street best community, there are definitely
Speaker 1: some who were just in it, you know, in it
Speaker 1: for the memes. They want to make a few bucks.
Speaker 1: But there's also some people, um, like you said, who
Speaker 1: are in it for the moral aspect. There was a
Speaker 1: post a couple of a couple of days ago who said,
Speaker 1: who's talking about how deeply. They were hit by the
Speaker 1: two thousand eight financial crisis, and how you know they saw, um,
Speaker 1: many of people involved kind of got got away with nothing.
Speaker 1: So this was some way of kind of acting enacting
Speaker 1: some financial penance on them, um in a way that
Speaker 1: you know, Congress didn't really do so for them. It
Speaker 1: wasn't just obviously they were trying to make money, but
Speaker 1: at the same the time, they were trying to right
Speaker 1: the wrong that they experienced a dozen or three years back.
Speaker 1: Were you a member of Wall Street Bets or were
Speaker 1: you aware of it before it kind of just blew
Speaker 1: up in the past couple of weeks. I know it's
Speaker 1: been popular for a while now, Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: was a member for a few months. UM No, it
Speaker 1: had it was growing, like say steadily. It was that
Speaker 1: um maybe one or two million members or this whole
Speaker 1: style began. UM. I mean it was my favorite. UM
Speaker 1: so great by any means, but you know, it was
Speaker 1: a mat Brows somewhat active UM and a lot of
Speaker 1: I would say they sort of have this attitude about
Speaker 1: them regarding stocks that they are they are really the
Speaker 1: David UM. They realize that they're not smart. They often
Speaker 1: post their losses often in the tens of thousands, because
Speaker 1: they recognize that what the craze that are making a risk,
Speaker 1: they are risky and there you know, they often don't work. Um,
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'd say they do definitely see themselves um
Speaker 1: as the David, But I think they also recognize that
Speaker 1: maybe they were the David. If David hit himself in
Speaker 1: the head with a sling. That's pretty funny, Kevin. I
Speaker 1: want to ask you though, you know, obviously a lot
Speaker 1: of the strategies that that these traders are employing, are
Speaker 1: you know, maybe what at least used to be less
Speaker 1: liquid names, high short interest, you know that that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. From your perspective as a macro oriented type
Speaker 1: of trader and now a columnist, um, do you see
Speaker 1: any risk of this type of behavior sort of getting
Speaker 1: pointed towards the macro world? Now? I know you look
Speaker 1: at the currency market six six trillion dollars a day.
Speaker 1: You know, on first blush, it's probably too big of
Speaker 1: a market for this type of thing to to make
Speaker 1: it dent. But I don't know if you start looking
Speaker 1: at like risk reversal positions and say, I don't know,
Speaker 1: the looney you know, Kiwi pair something like that. Are
Speaker 1: there ways these guys uh could start making dents in
Speaker 1: the facts or bond market or any other non sort
Speaker 1: of meme stock type of situations in the markets, maybe
Speaker 1: in a in a very ephemeral way. I don't think
Speaker 1: they can have the same magnitude of impact certainly that
Speaker 1: they had in some of these yolo stock simply because
Speaker 1: the liquidity is so much, so much greater. And you know,
Speaker 1: the thing is is that typically a lot of the
Speaker 1: esoteric stuff, like what you've referred to on the derivative side,
Speaker 1: you just traded over the counter, and that's not a
Speaker 1: venue where Robin Hood can can provide provide liquidity um
Speaker 1: for for for example, but for sure, uh, if they
Speaker 1: were to gang up on maybe a listed option on
Speaker 1: an e T f uh that it corresponds to a
Speaker 1: macro product, you know, like maybe silver, which is kind
Speaker 1: of famously a liquid for a macro product. Um, then
Speaker 1: if everyone bought a bunch of calls or a bunch
Speaker 1: of puts on silver, could that have an impact for
Speaker 1: for a few days? Yeah, I think so. Uh. I know,
Speaker 1: even when I was a portfolio manager and I wanted
Speaker 1: to running a big portfolio, and I wanted to take
Speaker 1: a position in silver, an option position in silver. I
Speaker 1: used the t F rather than rather than rather than
Speaker 1: the future. So that's certainly a venue potentially that they
Speaker 1: could they could have an impact. But broadly speaking, I
Speaker 1: mean macro is called macro for a reason, and macro
Speaker 1: means big. Uh So the degree of participation and the
Speaker 1: liquidity I think would preclude some of these hit and
Speaker 1: run type tactics. So Patrick, bring it back to you.
Speaker 1: I have two questions. One, would you say that you've
Speaker 1: learned anything from the bet that you made with your
Speaker 1: dad anything at all over the past couple of weeks?
Speaker 1: And two do you think this is something that you
Speaker 1: and your friends are going to continue to do? Even
Speaker 1: those that might be newer to this out that they've
Speaker 1: been pulled into this trend and their interest has been piqued.
Speaker 1: Do you see this as something that's going to continue. Um. So,
Speaker 1: as for your first question, I will say I experience
Speaker 1: a little bit of fu bress. Um. I recognize that
Speaker 1: in a week is a little a little bit more
Speaker 1: improbable than Yeah, three days, maybe as possible, but three
Speaker 1: days is definitely definitely a challenge, a little ambitious, yeah,
Speaker 1: bit impititious, ambitious. UM. So, I definitely need to temper
Speaker 1: my aspirations a little bit. UM. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: this this has been a learning experience, um in the
Speaker 1: sense that uh this, I feel that, um, the opportunity
Speaker 1: to learn will come in the coming weeks when we
Speaker 1: see is game stop gonna you know, sit at a
Speaker 1: comfortable level greater than what it was, say a few
Speaker 1: months ago. You know, is there gonna be an a
Speaker 1: meaningful impact from the game style community, or from the
Speaker 1: welsher desk community, or just is it just for me
Speaker 1: a spike and then it returned to what it was.
Speaker 1: I also feel that less mob we learn from whether
Speaker 1: or not UM, Congress is gonna passing me while it's
Speaker 1: for restricting this sort of thing from happening again. UM.
Speaker 1: A couple of days ago, I watched a YouTube video
Speaker 1: examining the legality of this, and UM, personally, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's so cut and dry. UM. I think that
Speaker 1: the what would primarily concern this because a lot of
Speaker 1: people are saying this is a pump and dump scheme
Speaker 1: and obviously that's illegal. Um So UM, if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: under the Commodities Exchange Act of actually I don't know
Speaker 1: when it was from, but basically there's don't worry about yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: So because they're accusing this is being blatant marking manipulation. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that you have to subject it to a test,
Speaker 1: which under the Commodities Exchange Act. So the first stepulation
Speaker 1: is whether or not the huge that being Wall Street
Speaker 1: bets have the ability to influence the market prices. And
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would deny that they did have
Speaker 1: the ability to influence Game Shop did not reach four
Speaker 1: out of thin air. Um. The second stitulation asks whether
Speaker 1: Wall Street bets specifically intended to create or effect a
Speaker 1: price or price trend that doesn't reflect legitimate forces to
Speaker 1: play and demand. And I think that is the sticulation
Speaker 1: that it is a little a little more of a
Speaker 1: gray area because um, as Wall Street bests now is
Speaker 1: eight million members and obviously not all of them are
Speaker 1: investing in the stock. But even if only ten to
Speaker 1: them do an eight hundred thousand invest at what point, um,
Speaker 1: is it considered legitimate? You know, these people aren't managing
Speaker 1: portfolios of people of other people's money. This is their
Speaker 1: own money, so obviously, UM, it's not legitimate in the
Speaker 1: sense that, Um, it's not legitimate in the sense that
Speaker 1: they're not buying it to hold over a long time,
Speaker 1: but they're offer buying it with their own money. So
Speaker 1: what could one consider that to be able? Gitimate? So
Speaker 1: I think that's the question that prosecutors are going to
Speaker 1: have to ask. UM. I'm going back to the going
Speaker 1: back to the test um. The third the third situlation
Speaker 1: is also pretty gray. UM. It asks um, it asked
Speaker 1: whether artificial prices existed. UM. In the fourth situlation asks
Speaker 1: whether well Street Best caused the artificial prices. So I
Speaker 1: think again, well Street Best did affect these prices. They're
Speaker 1: so denying that, but is it artificial? UM? I think
Speaker 1: as UM, as the time's gone on, I'm leading more
Speaker 1: to it is artificial, because as we're seeing today, it's
Speaker 1: dropping to I don't know where it ended at. UM,
Speaker 1: yours sorry, it's uh, let's see it's I'll tell you
Speaker 1: where it is as we speak, the the Wonder of
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg to riminal Yeah, and that size. We're recording
Speaker 1: this on Thursday afternoon, so you your your results may differ.
Speaker 1: As they say, stand clear of the craziest things we
Speaker 1: saw in markets this week. So Cameron and Patrick, I,
Speaker 1: I hope you came prepared with the craziest thing you
Speaker 1: saw in markets this week. I know everything has been crazy,
Speaker 1: but Cameron, let's kick it off with you. What's the
Speaker 1: craziest thing. I'm going off past. The craziest thing I
Speaker 1: saw was something I saw on Twitter last weekend, which
Speaker 1: was an interchange between the two of you where it
Speaker 1: emerged that Sarah's nickname is Ponzi. How have you not
Speaker 1: used this? That means, by definition, any plan that she
Speaker 1: has to achieve anything in her life is a Ponzi scheme.
Speaker 1: Use all right? I want to make this clear. Though
Speaker 1: Mike is trying to establish my new nickname as the Ponds,
Speaker 1: it is a much more mature version of Ponzi, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't subject me to what you are stipulating. Okay, Cameron,
Speaker 1: actually to square the circle and go back to old entertainment.
Speaker 1: Do you know who the Fons is? I actually do
Speaker 1: know about very good thing I can say as to
Speaker 1: that one. Pontz is a great nickname, but it's hard
Speaker 1: to be a professional financial journalist and have your phone
Speaker 1: calls returned when uh, when you call up and say
Speaker 1: I think you guys should change the name of the
Speaker 1: podcast to Ponzi schemes and Reagan's dreams. That's really good.
Speaker 1: That's really good. But I've got to say, and I
Speaker 1: did say, I wasn't going to let you off the hook, Mike,
Speaker 1: because at Financial Gambler one of our listeners of the
Speaker 1: podcast said, Okay, Michael's high school nickname must be discussed
Speaker 1: on the next episode. You'll get a five star podcast
Speaker 1: rating from me. So in honor of a five star rating, Mike,
Speaker 1: I think you have to share with us what you're
Speaker 1: school nickname was. I'm gonna say this, Sarah. Um the
Speaker 1: bid of one five star rating, my ask is a
Speaker 1: little higher. There's we still got to spread there. So
Speaker 1: uh And I don't know if this is a podcast
Speaker 1: rating manipulations. Maybe Apple will be in touch with us,
Speaker 1: but we're currently at a hundred and forty seven ratings
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. I think if you get us ten more,
Speaker 1: if we get to one fifty seven by next week,
Speaker 1: I have two high school nicknames. One of them is
Speaker 1: very flattering, one of them is very embarrassing. If we
Speaker 1: get to one fifty seven, I'll give you the flattering nickname,
Speaker 1: but we gotta get to two hundred to get the
Speaker 1: embarrassing nickname at of me. I've got to say, if
Speaker 1: you won't share the flattering one with us today, then
Speaker 1: it gives me the feeling that the flattering one can't
Speaker 1: be that flattering, but it's pretty good accurate. I will say,
Speaker 1: both were given to me on the basketball court. So
Speaker 1: to take that for for what it's worth, all right,
Speaker 1: sure was just sort of how mediocre my career was.
Speaker 1: Everyone gets rating the podcast. Yeah, if we get two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven ratings, and I won't even make
Speaker 1: them be five star. I don't want to get charged
Speaker 1: with rating manipulation. We got the one seven, I'll give
Speaker 1: you the flattering nickname. Two hundred ratings get you the
Speaker 1: not so flattering nickname. Okay, that's fair, all right, Um,
Speaker 1: if I may interject, if we're on the subject of nicknames,
Speaker 1: we all know that my dad, Cameron Christ like you,
Speaker 1: referred himself as the macro Man. But my brother and
Speaker 1: I because he is a little bit shorter than us,
Speaker 1: you know, he's what are you five nine? No, brother,
Speaker 1: Now you're six one and six two respectively, all right,
Speaker 1: I guess six two and six one respectively. We were
Speaker 1: lovingly refer to him as the MicroB dad. So yeah,
Speaker 1: this is what you get for allowing your son. I
Speaker 1: think for the record, if you check your what's out.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say earlier, but you resistant. But we're
Speaker 1: on the stubect of the nicknames. I I have to say,
Speaker 1: you had to do it. We'll take it, We'll take it,
Speaker 1: we appreciate. I think you just got us another five
Speaker 1: star review with that one. That was pretty good. Absolutely
Speaker 1: so Patrick, how about you? Did you see anything crazy
Speaker 1: in the last week? So I think that the craziest
Speaker 1: thing I've seen is UM just how much a financial
Speaker 1: institution started trying to use Wall Street Bats as a
Speaker 1: means to influence activity. Obviously your article about UM bought
Speaker 1: activity among Wall Street bests as a member, I've seen it. UM.
Speaker 1: You know there's a post that blew up that had
Speaker 1: um uh an account posting the exact same comment, basically saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you should sell you should sell a little way for
Speaker 1: about a WEEKLYO. I believe UM and also UM the
Speaker 1: media outlets consistently saying that silver is you know, Wall
Speaker 1: Street Bats. Next big thing person I want to comment
Speaker 1: up on, you know, on what's your best at large
Speaker 1: I've seen maybe one post um touting Silver as invest
Speaker 1: were they maybe a week ago in Pennos saying hey,
Speaker 1: this isn't US. I don't know where this saying this
Speaker 1: is US. So I think, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is gonna continue. Maybe one scheme stop dives
Speaker 1: down there over to uh a little more traditional investment
Speaker 1: advice instead of just saying, oh, well's your best likes it.
Speaker 1: But I think that's worth noting at the current time.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. That's really because that was the narrative, and
Speaker 1: there was a people mistakenly assuming the street was short
Speaker 1: silver when when there's really not a lot of evidence
Speaker 1: for that. It's pretty it's a fascinating dynamic all around.
Speaker 1: I got I gotta say it is. And I can
Speaker 1: say there's been a lot of pushback on the silver narrative.
Speaker 1: You see it all over social media and on Wall
Speaker 1: Street bets too, so Oh and Stars. As you pointed out,
Speaker 1: we did get a voicemail into the what goes Up hotline? Uh,
Speaker 1: and it does quote an old man movie, so let's uh,
Speaker 1: let's give it a listen. This is Steve from New
Speaker 1: Jersey and this is a message, well, what goes up.
Speaker 1: I believe this video audio explained exactly what's going on
Speaker 1: with Robin Hood telling a good part. That's a good part.
Speaker 1: What do you manage that? No matter where there, our
Speaker 1: clients make money or lose money. Duke and Duke commission.
Speaker 1: So I know Cameron knows that movie, Sarah, what's your
Speaker 1: best guests? It's not Fletch training places. I mean, I
Speaker 1: I did my due diligence before the podcast, but I'll
Speaker 1: be completely honest, I won't. When the voicemail came in,
Speaker 1: I had to send it to Mike and say, I've
Speaker 1: got to say I don't get this. Do you get this?
Speaker 1: And if so, can you explain it to me? So yes,
Speaker 1: I'll add it to my my week's long homework of
Speaker 1: watching old man movies. But that's the perennial homework assignment.
Speaker 1: I know it's a it's a tough one, all right.
Speaker 1: I'll give you mine. Mine is you know, as as
Speaker 1: we all know, I like the alternative asset class, and
Speaker 1: the more alternative the better. This one is certainly crazy.
Speaker 1: It's also a little disturbing. So I won't make any
Speaker 1: jokes about it, or not too many jokes. But there
Speaker 1: is an auction coming up. For give me a little
Speaker 1: drumroll here Hitler's toilet seat. Hitler's toilet seat is up
Speaker 1: for auction. Uh. This is courtesy the New York Post,
Speaker 1: which is um uh, sort of the paper record for
Speaker 1: crazy market things. Apparently, when the g I stormed, uh,
Speaker 1: the Eagle's Nest retreat of the Nazis in World War Two,
Speaker 1: one of the I don't know if it's an officer
Speaker 1: whatever rank, he was told the guys go grab what
Speaker 1: it grabs, some souvenirs if you want. So one one
Speaker 1: guy grabbed a couple of oil paintings and grabbed Hitler's
Speaker 1: toilet seat, which is now up for auction. And sorry,
Speaker 1: you know what that means. It's time for a little
Speaker 1: price discovery here. What do you think the auction house
Speaker 1: is hoping the winning bid will be for Hitler's toilet seat.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have no idea. I can't say that
Speaker 1: i'd pay anything for that, but maybe either. I know,
Speaker 1: it's really weird people collect this stuff. It's kind of disturbing.
Speaker 1: But the target price, well, it's it's They didn't really
Speaker 1: just explain it too well in the story. They said,
Speaker 1: this is what the I guess it would be the
Speaker 1: target price what the auction house thinks that they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna solve for it. I'll go ahead and guess
Speaker 1: a thousand. I I can it's some weeks, I'm way
Speaker 1: too high. The next time I guess high and it's
Speaker 1: something that's ridiculously low. Then I come in and I
Speaker 1: guess low, and it's telling that's ridiculously high. So this
Speaker 1: is gonna be way higher than a thousand dollars. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and say I don't think Hitler's toilet
Speaker 1: seats worth anything. I wouldn't. I wouldn't pay anything for it.
Speaker 1: But knowing that there's people out there that, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: would would want to own this. Now, Kevin, remember prices right,
Speaker 1: rules are in effect, so you could go a thousand one.
Speaker 1: But but your son here is kind of a savvy operator,
Speaker 1: so you know it's up to you. What's okay is
Speaker 1: what they're expecting I should have? I should have I
Speaker 1: should have been a thousand and one. Look at given
Speaker 1: that we're old men and we like caddy shock closest
Speaker 1: to the pin, rules really should be in effect and closes.
Speaker 1: I was playing, but it's not it's got a point.
Speaker 1: It's got a point. Though we do follow prices right rules,
Speaker 1: so but we can we can follow up on this
Speaker 1: and see what it actually sells. Were and uh, maybe
Speaker 1: there's a push to be had there. But Sarah, what
Speaker 1: do you have? What's the craziest thing you've got this week? Alright? So,
Speaker 1: in honor of the Super Bowl, there was a story
Speaker 1: that came out about some cards and some rookie cards
Speaker 1: selling for records. So one of them being Patrick Mahomes,
Speaker 1: so Panini National Treasures number one sixty one Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: signed patch rookie card supposedly only five exists, was bought
Speaker 1: at eight hundred sixty one thousand dollars and that makes
Speaker 1: it the most expensive FOOTBA card ever sold. Um, so
Speaker 1: the dude's only been playing three or four years. That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Pretty wild. And then also I will point out one
Speaker 1: other because it's a commercial and it was also hysterical.
Speaker 1: I mean, can me just ask what I gotta ask?
Speaker 1: One thing? First was the was the winning bitter named
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes. It doesn't say so, but I don't think
Speaker 1: he needs it. But also pretty crazy, did you guys
Speaker 1: see the Popeye's commercial. Yeah, Chicken tendees. I mean, if
Speaker 1: any more Tendees commercials make their way into Super Bowl Sunday,
Speaker 1: it'll be pretty funny. It's a strange new where else,
Speaker 1: it's the crazy things have become. I guess there's just
Speaker 1: one of the jewelers going to make an ad for
Speaker 1: diamond hands or something. Diamonds. I could, I could see it.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe they're not hitting their target audience, but
Speaker 1: you know, why not? Did you see le Um? I
Speaker 1: saw on Twitter yesterday a rapper had a diamond and
Speaker 1: planted into his face, So maybe they can do the
Speaker 1: same thing for her hands. Genius? Remember everyone, I know
Speaker 1: Mike mentioned it earlier in the show, But if you
Speaker 1: want to give us a call, leave us a voicemail,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll play it on the show. That number is
Speaker 1: six or six three two four three for nine zero um.
Speaker 1: I feel like we could all have fun for much
Speaker 1: longer and keep chatting, but we're gonna have to leave
Speaker 1: it there. So Macroman and micro Boy, thanks you going
Speaker 1: to the show. What goes Up? We'll be back next week.
Speaker 1: Until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal
Speaker 1: website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd
Speaker 1: love it if you took the time to rate and
Speaker 1: review the show on Apple podcast so more listeners can
Speaker 1: find us. And you can find us on Twitter, follow
Speaker 1: me at therapon that Mike is that Reaganonymous, and you
Speaker 1: can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at podcasts. Also thank you
Speaker 1: to Charlie Pellett of Bloomberg Radio and the voice of
Speaker 1: the New York City Subway System. What Goes Up is
Speaker 1: produced by Cooper Forehes. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is
Speaker 1: Francesca Levie. Thanks for listening, See you next time.