1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Giants, dunt 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: my giantsbul give me some job. Part of the Giants 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: podcast Network, Let's roll. 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: Want to bring in a new guest today. 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: He is Stephen Ruisi, covers the NFL and specifically quarterbacks 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: for The Ringer. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: Steven, Welcome to the Giants Huddle man. 10 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for doing this, Thanks for having me. I'm always 11 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: excited to talk about quarterback evaluation. It's it's really the 12 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: most interesting thing in the sport to me. 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe the most difficult too. 14 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: And that's the reason I wanted to have you on, 15 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: because Kurt Warner has been putting out tweets as a 16 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: Hall of Fame former MVP quarterback. He watches college quarterbacks 17 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: and he comes back and says, boy, I can't figure 18 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: out which one of these guys are going to be 19 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: good NFL quarterbacks. So my first thought is, what the 20 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 2: hell chance do we have in doing this correctly? And 21 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: the second thought I have is no wonder NFL teams 22 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: kind of stink at this with basically a fifty percent 23 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 2: rate in the first round. Right, So as you done 24 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: this and you do the quarterback rankings for the ringer 25 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: in the NFL, so you know what it's like to 26 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: watch a lot of NFL quarterback play. What do you 27 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: think about just this whole process about how teams go 28 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: about trying to predict and you know, figure out what 29 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: these college quarterbacks are going to be when they get 30 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: to the NFL. 31 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with Kurt. It's really hard to translate 32 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 3: a college offense and a quarterbacks performance within a college 33 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: offense to how he's going to perform in the NFL. 34 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: But I think once you embrace that uncertainty, I think 35 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 3: it becomes just a little bit easier. I think that's 36 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: when people like myself individuals, that's when I think teams 37 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: become better at quarterback evaluation. Is when they realize, like, 38 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 3: I'm not watching a college prospect to see see him 39 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: perform like an NFL quarterback would like. He's not going 40 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: to go through his progressions like an NFL quarterback. He's 41 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 3: not going to operate pre snap like a NFL quarterback. 42 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: He's not going to operate the huddle because they don't 43 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: huddle in college. So if you're looking at the film 44 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: for things that their coaches aren't asking them to do. 45 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: You're going to come away disappointed in their film. And 46 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 3: I think once I was able to like turn that 47 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: part of my brain off when I wasn't like, I 48 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: want every person to look like Drew Brees every college prospect, 49 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 3: I think my evaluations of these these college prospects got 50 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 3: a lot better and became more accurate. Still having said that, 51 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: this is a this is a crap shoot. We were 52 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: all throwing darts at the wall. Sometimes you get some right, 53 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 3: sometimes you get some wrong. I think it's about the process, 54 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: and that's what's so fascinating to me, And I think 55 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 3: that's what makes this such a interesting job and such 56 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 3: an important job for NFL teams. 57 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent agree. And I think just to 58 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: bring his back last year and then we'll kind of 59 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: dig in a little bit deeper. 60 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: Just CJ. 61 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: Stroud watching him last year, he looked in the Ohio 62 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: State offense to me, almost like a paintbine numbers. 63 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: Robotic type of quarterback. 64 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: Right, they scheme stuff up, the receivers get open, he 65 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: makes the throw. And until you got to that Georgia 66 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: game at the end, which was a one literally a 67 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: one game sample. You thought, all right, well, when he 68 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: has to do more in the NFL, when he's getting 69 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: pressure and all these things happen, how is this guy 70 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: going to react? Then he shows up in the NFL 71 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: and you realize, oh, wow, this guy's the best process 72 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: or to come out of college football since Joe Burrow 73 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: and before that, who knows how long, maybe Andrew Luck. 74 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 2: And when you see that happen to your point, it 75 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: makes you think, why am I even trying to figure 76 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: out processing here when you're almost guessing? And maybe NFL 77 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: teams can do better sitting in a room with these 78 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: guys for hours and putting them through plays and stuff. 79 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: But I think watching the tape is just really hard 80 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: without knowing exactly what the college is asking of these 81 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: guys and just the simplicity of the offenses. 82 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: Now, I think Stroud was a big prospect for me. 83 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: I think, like when you're doing when you do this 84 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: for a while, there are certain prospects that are like 85 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: formative prospects for how you evaluate guys. And I think 86 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: Stroud was a big one for me. Before I watched Stroud, 87 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: because you know, I'm covering the league throughout the year, 88 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: so I'm not like a year round draft guy, so 89 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 3: I have to do a lot of catching catching up 90 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: in like February in March, and you have these preconceived 91 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 3: notions of these prospects because you're like following people, you're 92 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: talking to people that are watching the film. And I 93 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: was like, in my mind, Stroud was like a Jarrett 94 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: Golf type quarterback, where like he's gonna stay in the pocket, 95 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 3: he's not gonna scramble much, he's gonna get through his reads. 96 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: He's fairly accurate, he's got a good enough harm That's 97 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 3: the type of quarterback I expect you to see. But when 98 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: you watch them on film, like there were instances where 99 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: he did have to create, and the issue with him 100 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: was like he's in this offense where he has all 101 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 3: this NFL talent, he has a great scheme. Ohio State's 102 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 3: favored by seventeen points every week. Like he never had 103 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 3: to scramble, and honestly, if he was scrambling more, there'd 104 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 3: be more questions about his processing and his pocket presence. 105 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: But that Georgia Gay was so big because it was like, oh, 106 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: he can do it, and once you have proof that 107 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 3: someone can do it, then it really complicates the evaluation, 108 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: especially with him. So I think that's the perfect example 109 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: for this dilemma that we have, is like, some of 110 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 3: these offenses are gonna make quarterbacks play a certain way 111 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily they're gonna play that way in the NFL. 112 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: Like if you were comparing processing quote unquote between Justin 113 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: Fields at Ohio State and C. J. Stroud, you think, oh, yeah, 114 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: they're they're on the same like plane. They're they're pretty 115 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: similar in that regard. Then they get to the NFL. 116 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 3: It's like whoa, whoa, whoa. These guys are worlds apart 117 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: in that in that realm. 118 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: No, it's it's crazy, and I think it makes it 119 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: very very difficult here when when you take a look 120 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: at some of these college schemes and the other thing 121 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: you do evaluating this goes to the NFL too, the 122 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: situations these quarterbacks are in. You know, you look at 123 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: jayde and Daniels play on that LSU offense this year, 124 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: then you watch Drake may play in the UNC offense, 125 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: and you might as be watching two different quarterbacks play 126 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: almost two different sports. You know, Jays and Daniel just 127 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: sitting back there with no pressure. He's got the you know, 128 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: two of the top four wide receivers in the class 129 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: wide open all over the place, while Drake May's guy's 130 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: not getting open. He's getting pressured every game he's got 131 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: to run around like a lunatic. And then you have 132 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: to figure out, all right, well, in a neutral situation, 133 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: how are these guys going to operate differently? 134 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's what's so tough, and it's it's it's 135 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: tough at the NFL level where stuff is more comparable, 136 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 3: Like you're comparing apples to apples, and like you said, 137 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: this is it's not even apples to oranges, apples to 138 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: like a buick or something. It's like a different, totally 139 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 3: different thing. And we tend to I think we tend 140 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: to like apply attributes to quarterbacks based on the offense. Like, 141 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 3: for instance, every quarterback that plays in like a Kyle 142 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: Shanahan style offense is a great processor and they anticipate 143 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: in they're accurate. Maybe it's the offense that's doing that 144 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: they're opening these windows. Maybe, And like even like the 145 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 3: quality of throws, Like one thing I've heard is Jaden 146 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 3: Daniels is the best vertical thrower in this class, like 147 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: he has the best deep ball numbers. You check out 148 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 3: the film and he looks the best. But I mean 149 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: he was throwing at two NFL receivers, like you said, 150 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 3: who could win those contested catches downfield and could track 151 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: the ball so well that it's really hard to gauge 152 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: his deep accuracy when so much is contingent on how 153 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 3: the wide receiver tracks the ball. My comparison that I 154 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 3: always use is like you know when like you're like 155 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 3: you're shooting a you have a ball, like your friend's 156 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: there and he like makes a hoop with his arms 157 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: and you kind of shoot it, shoot the ball into 158 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 3: the hoop with his arms, and then they like kind 159 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 3: of move when you shoot it. If your SHOT's off 160 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: to catch the shot, that doesn't mean you made the shot. 161 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: That doesn't mean you're Steph Curry and you're a great shooter. 162 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 3: That means the guy that was the rim just moved 163 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 3: into the way of the ball. I think that's that's 164 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 3: kind of how it works with deep acuracy. I think 165 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: it's kind of like a fake stat in my opinion, 166 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 3: like the deep accuracy numbers, and that just makes things 167 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: even more complicated, Like you can't even rely on that. 168 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: You can't even rely on the fact that you're seeing 169 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: Jaden Daniels complete passes forty yards downfield and you still 170 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: can't say, I know for a fact he's a great 171 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: deep ball thrower. 172 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 173 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: I feel like we've almost in the last ten years, 174 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: we've gone through a compatterns here, right. We went through 175 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: a time where people were drafting guys based on tools. 176 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: You go back to locker guys like that, and it 177 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: didn't work out. Then all of a sudden you be like, ooh, 178 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: tools guys, I need to see it more in college. 179 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: Then you get the Josh Allen and he is the 180 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: prototypical tools guy in college just passes her all over 181 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: the place. Then oh, he gets good coaching in the pros, 182 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: he has accuracy improve and he figures it out. And 183 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: I think recently the tools guys are the guys that 184 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: have been working out more often than the non tools 185 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: guys per se. So is that really what you're focusing 186 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: on now when you look at these quarterback is who 187 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: has that best package of tools? And you're counting on 188 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: NFL coaching, NFL schemes to kind of smooth out the 189 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: rough edges. 190 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So like we've said already there are two things 191 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: that are very hard for us in the public to do. 192 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 3: One is translate the scheme and how the next level. 193 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: The other is, like you said, we don't get to 194 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: interview these guys. We don't get to sit in the 195 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 3: film room and break down reads and be like, why 196 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 3: did you read it out like that? So all we 197 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: could really see on tape are traits? Are tools? Are 198 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 3: the strong arm? Are the athleticism? I think there's a 199 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 3: little bit of overlap there with like processing. I do 200 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: think like, for instance, Jaden Daniels is a good example, 201 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 3: there's a lot of criticism about his tendency to scramble 202 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 3: out of clean pocket. I think that's processing, but it's 203 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 3: also like a trait that's going to translate across schemes, 204 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: like being a little uncomfortable in the pocket. Whenever there's 205 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: a flash of pressure, that's gonna be the case in 206 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 3: a college offense, it's going to be the case in 207 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: a pro offense. I think that's one of those things 208 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: that does translate, and we see that in pressure to 209 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: sack rate numbers, which do translate fairly well. So I 210 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: think you just got to identify those traits on tape 211 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 3: that you can observe. You can observe pocket presence, you 212 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 3: can observe arm strength, you can observe accuracy to a 213 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: certain extent. I think you can observe all tho stuff. 214 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 3: So that's where I am as an evaluator, is I 215 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 3: need to see NFL level talent. And at the quarterback position, 216 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: I think it's really I don't know, the standard is 217 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: different because you only have one quarterback. You know that 218 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 3: guy has to be your quarterback. It's the only position 219 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: really in sports where that's the case. Like you could 220 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: be a number one receiver and you could have another 221 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: number one receiver on your roster who fills in the 222 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 3: gaps that you don't necessarily have in your game. Say 223 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 3: you like, go to the NBA, you could be a 224 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: point guard and you could have another point guard style 225 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: player play along with you with quarterback. That's the other thing. 226 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: You only get to play one quarterback, so that guy 227 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: better be the right guy. You better be a guy 228 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: that can win you a Super Bowl, because if you 229 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: don't have that guy, even if he's a good player, 230 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: it's kind of a problem to have a guy who's 231 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: good enough to get you to the playoffs, but not 232 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 3: good enough to win. That creates more problems than being 233 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 3: a team that's in the basement and doesn't know what 234 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 3: to do at quarterback, because at least they know we 235 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: just need to find a guy. So it's it's it's 236 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,479 Speaker 3: it's the toughest position in sports to evaluate, like that's 237 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: that's the theme of this podcast for me is it's 238 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: it's making it more daunting the bore we talk about it. 239 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: No, absolutely, well, you're right if you draft the guy 240 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: to be a go to score at shooting guard, right, 241 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: but oh he doesn't work out? Well, okay, he can 242 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: be a catch and shoot guy off the bench that 243 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: shoots forty percent on catching three shoes. 244 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: Right. 245 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,599 Speaker 2: If you draft an outside corner, you can fail in 246 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: the safety. You can fail in the slock corner that 247 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: can work. Quarterback. You really, I think to the point 248 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: where you want to do the shoot for the moon 249 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: thing because your point that you just made, I almost 250 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 2: wouldn't even want to draft the quarterback unless I can 251 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: see in my head a world where he can be 252 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: in that category with your top eight guys. You know, however, 253 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: you want to make the cutoff in the NFL with 254 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: the Lamars the Herberts, you know the Burrows, and you 255 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 2: know that top group. If you can't envision that, I 256 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: don't want to say, what's the point, But what's the point. 257 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: What's the point? 258 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds it sounds like you're giving up. It 259 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 3: sounds like us defeatist. But like you need a guy 260 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 3: that can compete with Mahomes, because that guy's gonna be 261 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: in the Super Bowl or the AFC Championship Game every 262 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: single year. 263 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: Reason Tom Brady dominated the league for fifteen years, I 264 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 2: mean exactly. 265 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: And back to my original point, like you need traits 266 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 3: to be that guy. Now, there was a time, maybe 267 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: twenty years ago, where you didn't need to have the 268 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: rocket army, didn't need to have the four four speed 269 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: to be that guy. But the problem with these new 270 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 3: elite quarterbacks is they could do the four to four, 271 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 3: the side arm, the no look, but they can also 272 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: do the Payton manning stuff. Like they're still good at 273 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: that stuff. I think that's like the most underrated thing 274 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: about Patrick Mahomes's game is the maturation of his game 275 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 3: over the last couple of years. You watch some of 276 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: these Super Bowl performances, like especially against the Eagles, where 277 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: he was facing pressure on like half of the dropbacks, 278 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: his ankle was heard. He didn't really have receivers that 279 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: he could count on outside of Kelsey, and he was 280 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: basically perfect. He was basically perfect with every decision he 281 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: made and that's why they won that Super Bowl. So 282 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: you need a guy who can do both. And as 283 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 3: we said that, like mental part, it's really hard to 284 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 3: evaluate in college. But though that trait part, that part, 285 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: the talent part isn't as hard, and I think that's 286 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: why you should focus on that part. 287 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 4: You love turf, You're good at it. So you start 288 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 4: a turf Fizz business grows, your savings grow, become the 289 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 4: most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all 290 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: that life brings? 291 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: Yeah? You go back to the Mahomes thing. 292 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: You know, we remember when the Bengals made that adjustment, right, 293 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: we're gonna rush three, we're gonna drop eight, And that 294 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: was when Mahomes was still with Tyreek and it was 295 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: all deep stuff and he's like, oh, okay, well, I'm 296 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 2: just going to pick you apart methodically with a bunch 297 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: of seven to eight yard passes now and march up 298 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 2: and down in the field. 299 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: And you're right. 300 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 2: I think it's that adjustment and the fact that guys 301 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: can do both now, I. 302 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: Think really is the difference. 303 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: And if you don't have that base level of athleticism 304 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 2: to make some of those off schedule special plays with 305 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: the ability of defensive coordinators now to rush the pass 306 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: or athletic defensive lineman, if you can't you know, step 307 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: up in the pocket, roll to your left, roll your right, 308 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: throw on the move, it's gonna be hard for you 309 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: to consistently have a productive offense and move the ball, 310 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 2: just because frankly, the athletes on defense are that much 311 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: better now and offense. People don't realize offense in the 312 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: league right now is kind of at low. You know, 313 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: points are down. 314 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: You need to have that special stuff in order to 315 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: sustain success. 316 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: I think now, yeah, And I think as coordinators get 317 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: better at defending these like new passing concepts, you're seeing 318 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 3: mobility be that last option. Like for Mahomes this year especially, 319 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: his scrambling rates were up. They were the highest they've 320 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: ever been and it's because he didn't have necessarily have 321 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 3: that checkdown option all the time, so he made his 322 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 3: own checkdown option, so he he this is like the 323 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: new level of quarterbacking, whereas like Peyton Manny would be 324 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: like one to two to three checkdown or I throw 325 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 3: the ball away, Mahomes gets to go one to two 326 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: to three checkdown. Oh, I'm just going to create and 327 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: make something happen. And by the way, that could end 328 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: up being like a sixty yard touchdown or like a 329 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 3: thirty yard scramble. And when that's the standard, again, you 330 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: need guys that are equipped with the firepower to do 331 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: that because these coaches, these defensive coaches are only getting better. 332 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: Like did you see Mike McDonald's defense this year in Baltimore, 333 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: Like they had a lot of talent, Like I'm not 334 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: questioning the talent on that roster, but the way they 335 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: scheme things up, Like that's what's that's what the future 336 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 3: of defense looks like. He came from the college level, 337 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 3: and I think we're going to see more and more 338 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 3: guys and late that style and if that happens, where 339 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 3: Like the key to Baltimore's defensive success this year was 340 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 3: they took away the deep shots, but they also took 341 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: away your underneath stuff at the same time. So the 342 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 3: only way to win against that is to have a 343 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: guy that just like can overcome a numbers advantage a 344 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: guy that is just so good that it doesn't matter 345 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: what you do, he's still going to beat you. And 346 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: we saw the only person that was able to really 347 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: beat that defense this year was Patrick Mahomes and he 348 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: did it by moving out of the pocket, like you said, 349 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: and making throws on the run. 350 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 351 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: Look, I think they've kind of figured out the defensive 352 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: version of motion for the offense. 353 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Right. 354 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: It's coverage changes post snap, so you make the quarterback 355 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: think a little bit longer, and you kind of do 356 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: that stuff to make quarterbacks make their life a little 357 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: bit easier so they can't do exactly what they evaluated 358 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: based on their pre snap read. 359 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: The huddle is. 360 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: Brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the 361 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: Giants from game data. Every day, Citizens is made ready 362 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: for Giant fans with insides, guidance, and solutions. Learn more 363 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: at citizens bank dot com. I Stephen, when you see 364 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: the traits that we talked about with these college quarterbacks, 365 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: what aspects do you think can be improved significantly in 366 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: the NFL. You know, we always used to be told 367 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: that accuracy can't be improved. I think we're seeing that 368 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: disproven a little bit now with some of the high 369 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: level coaching and mechanical stuff they can do with these quarterbacks, 370 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: and what stuff do you consider and maybe it's some 371 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: of the you know, pressure to sack stuff, the bailing 372 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: on pockets. Do you consider almost natural instinct that it's 373 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: hard to coach guys up on that you would consider 374 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 2: red flags? Oh he's not good at this. I'm not 375 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: sure we can get better at this. This might really 376 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: hold them back. 377 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: I think it's like the processing part is the easiest 378 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: part to teach, Like that's typically the thing that only 379 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 3: happens if you get good coaching. Like a quarterback isn't 380 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: naturally going to be good at processing because you have 381 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 3: to give them the like, the mental tools to be 382 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 3: able to do that right. And they're not getting it 383 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: at the college level. And that's not an indictment of 384 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: college coaches. Like I'm not one of these guys that's like, Oh, 385 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: these college coaches they don't coach them up, they don't 386 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: prepare them like they're trying to win games, they're trying 387 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: to feed their families to keep their jobs. I'm not. 388 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 3: That's not the expectation I have. But I don't think 389 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 3: we should put that expectation on the players either, like 390 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: we should give them room to grow in that realm. 391 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 3: And I really think the more you let a quarterback simmer, 392 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 3: the more you let him play, Like that stuff is 393 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 3: just gonna come naturally with experience, Like Kirk Cousins wasn't 394 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 3: the best processor when he started out in Washington, Like 395 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: it took him five years for the light bulb to 396 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 3: really turn on. He didn't have his breakout year til 397 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 3: the last year of his rookie contract. But now, like 398 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 3: we see, he's just kept getting reps and he's gotten 399 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 3: ten years of reps and now he's one of the 400 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 3: better processors in the league. And I think that that 401 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 3: kind of progress is just natural. The things that are 402 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: hard to teach obviously, like arm strength and speed, like 403 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 3: you can't really teach that, you have to have it. 404 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 3: I do think like arm strength, we have seen quarterbacks 405 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 3: improve their technique that we have all these throwing durus 406 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 3: now like Tom Brady's arm got stronger as he went on. 407 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: It might have been its strongest when he was in 408 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 3: his forties. But you can't you can't really teach that stuff. 409 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 3: But I think it is the pressure to sack stuff. 410 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 3: I think that in the pocket, that comfort in the pocket, 411 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 3: those are instincts. I think those that is something that 412 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 3: comes to a quarterback naturally. I think you can you 413 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 3: put like young Patrick Mahomes back in the pocket. I'm 414 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: sure the game just slowed down for him instantly because 415 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 3: he's just that type of athlete's this is the type 416 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: of guy who can slow things down and figure out 417 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: the best course of action. I think that's the one 418 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: and that's why I have some concerns about a prospect 419 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 3: like Jayden Daniels, who does have the tools I talked about. 420 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 3: Like he runs, He probably runs a four to three. 421 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 3: He could throw the ball. He has plenty of arms. Figure, 422 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 3: I don't think he has like a top level arm, 423 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 3: but he has plenty of arm strength. But that pressure 424 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 3: to sack ratio and his reaction to pressure in the pocket, 425 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 3: that's what gives me pause. 426 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, and now let's get into the prospects and 427 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 2: why don't we start a Jade and Daniel, You just 428 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: went there, so why don't we do that. 429 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think he's a really good runner. 430 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 2: I don't think he has that you know, feel in 431 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: the pocket like Mahomes does to slide, throw on the move. 432 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: Once he starts scrambling, he tends to run more than throw. 433 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 2: I feel like he's got a little bit better later 434 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: in the year throwing on the move a little bit. 435 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: But I don't see necessarily that pocket feel that you 436 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: have with the Mahomes or more importantly, a guy like 437 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: Caleb Williams that almost seems to have like is like 438 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: internal GPS, where he can sense where players are around 439 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: them and where spaces to kind of make some of 440 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: those plays once he gets a little bit of pressure. 441 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. 442 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: Like obviously he has a plan B. His plan B 443 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 3: is to take off and scramble. Not a bad plan, 444 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: by the way, not a bad plan, especially in college, 445 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: but that plan becomes a little less viable in the 446 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: NFL when everyone runs a four to four and like 447 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 3: even the big defensive ends can run a four to 448 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 3: four in some cases. What I haven't seen on film 449 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 3: is the ability to find a plan B within the 450 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: structure of an offense. Like we said, the guy the 451 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 3: best guys could do both, and I haven't seen him 452 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 3: be able to do that. Other thing. I've seen him 453 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 3: be able to hit an open receiver if his first 454 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: read is open. I've seen him be able to go 455 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 3: one to two and get to his second read if 456 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: his first read isn't open. What I haven't seen him 457 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: do is his first read is not open, all of 458 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 3: a sudden the pocket is closing in on him. He 459 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: shuffles fine space slides like you said Mahomes does, and 460 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: then and then makes a throw within the structure of 461 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 3: the offense like he hits a backside dig or whatever. 462 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: I haven't really seen that. I've seen him do it 463 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 3: in a clean pocket. I haven't seen him doing it 464 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 3: in a muddy pocket. Usually what he does and like 465 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: usually when the play works out, it's because he's scrambling 466 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: and he can outrun everyone on the field. I want 467 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 3: to see him beat teams with a second reaction throw 468 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 3: within the pocket. I haven't seen it yet. And the 469 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: reason why I want to see it is because you 470 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 3: have to be able to do that in the NFL. 471 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 3: Maybe he develops that strength later on, But like I 472 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 3: said earlier, you don't see many cases where a guy 473 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 3: had pocket presence issues and then they like they magically 474 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: got solved in the NFL, like even a player like 475 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: Russell Wilson, who even at his peak, at his best, 476 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 3: he was not the most comfortable quarterback in the pocket, 477 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: and that never really got better, even despite the fact 478 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 3: that he got all those reps. Like I said, Kirk 479 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: Cousins got more reps, he stopped making like boneheaded interceptions, 480 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 3: he started processing better. We never really saw that with 481 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: Russ and we never really see that with any quarterback 482 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 3: who has that issue of stain in the pocket when 483 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 3: there's pressure in his face. Yeah. 484 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: I do think Daniels has a high floor though, because 485 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: I do think he's generally an accurate thrower. 486 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: He can throw deep very well. 487 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 2: To the point you made earlier, he has that speed 488 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: to run, so I think he's a high floor guy. 489 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: I think the question is the advanced passing on the 490 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: move type stuff, the you know, doing that stuff off 491 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: schedule within the structure. I think that's where you worry 492 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: about what the ceiling is. But I think what he 493 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 2: does well gives him a fairly high floor. 494 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I would agree. I think, like obviously 495 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 3: there are concerns with the size and his ability to 496 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: take hits and his ability to stay healthy at this 497 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 3: next level, because he has some plays on film where 498 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 3: don't do that man like he plays like a stunt man. 499 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 3: At times he plays like Johnny Kdoxville. That's a comp 500 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: I've heard before. But yeah, I do think that mobility 501 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: if he can't stay healthy, like we saw with Justin Fields, 502 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: who's like not the most polished thrower of the football, 503 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 3: but we saw when Chicago really leaned into his running ability, 504 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 3: the offense became a little more viable despite the fact 505 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 3: that they had a weak offensive line, they had some 506 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: holes in the receiving court even after the DJ More trade. 507 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: I do think mobility in this day and age in 508 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: the NFL really sets the floor, whereas maybe ten fifteen 509 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 3: years ago is more about like accuracy and processing stuff 510 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 3: like that. But you can build a good run game 511 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: if your quarterback can just run. It doesn't matter what 512 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 3: pieces you have around him, just because of the numbers 513 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 3: advantages that creates, like defense has to play eleven on eleven, 514 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: whereas against a immobile quarterback that he played ten on 515 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 3: eleven in the run game because the quarterback's not doing 516 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 3: anything after he hands off the ball. So I agree 517 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 3: with you there. I think his floor is a little 518 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 3: higher than people realize. I think the question should be 519 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 3: about a ceiling in his capacity to become a Patrick Holmes, 520 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 3: Josh Allen, Joe Burrow and Herbert type quarterback. 521 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: And that's where I think Kayleb Williams is interesting and 522 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: I want to hit him next because that type of 523 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: you know, feel in the pocket is off the charts 524 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: for him. His ability to make those throws on the 525 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 2: run with touch, either with velocity your touch, depending on 526 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: the play, I think it is phenomenal. But going back 527 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 2: to I think my first question to you watching him 528 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: in the structure of that USC offense, I mean it's hard, 529 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 2: you know, It's kind of like it's like a designer 530 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: play to hit one guy that's old. But if he's 531 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: not open, everyone else kind of just stops and he's like, 532 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: all right, Caleb, go go figure it out. And to 533 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: his credit, he's great at doing it. But that's something 534 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: where I wonder about to get the one to two 535 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: to three on time, that sort of stuff. Those are 536 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 2: all my questions are with Clay and Caleb. But I 537 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: feel like in the right system, in the right coach 538 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: in the NFL, he's gonna get there. And that's why 539 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: I think he's gonna be the number one pick and 540 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 2: should be that. 541 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: That's my read on the situation, and I think he 542 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: really got a raw deal because Lincoln Riley has been 543 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 3: producing these quarterbacks and he's been providing them with these 544 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 3: structures that are so easy to play in for a quarterback, 545 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: relatively speaking, the quarterback is always hard to play. But 546 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 3: that wasn't the case at USC this year. When you 547 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: watch that film, that was a bad offense. And I'm 548 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: not just talking about the talent around him. I'm talking 549 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 3: about the scheme, the play calling. It's not just like 550 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 3: the plays were always oh, there's only one viable target 551 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 3: on it. Sometimes there are RPOs attached to a lot 552 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 3: of his a lot of what turned out to be 553 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 3: past attempts where the offense line's not even blocking and 554 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: trying to make a pocket. They're trying to block for 555 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 3: the run game, and he has to navigate that mess 556 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 3: in front of them with like pulling guards and stuff. 557 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 3: But I do think, like if you really watch the film, 558 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 3: you watch him down to down, you see that quarterback stuff. 559 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 3: You see flashes of him being able to be that 560 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 3: quarterback who is reliable down to down, the guy that 561 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 3: can stay in the pocket and go one to two 562 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 3: to three. He just wasn't asked to do it in 563 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: USC's offense, and really that would have been a luxury 564 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 3: for him. He wasn't allowed to do that because he 565 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 3: was I wasn't able to do that because if he did, 566 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: you I see, would have lost by twenty points every game. 567 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: It's it's amazing that they scored as many points as 568 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 3: they did and they won as many games as they did, 569 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 3: and it's a testament to how good that quarterback ish. 570 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: To me, he's the best prospect I've ever scouted. I 571 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 3: haven't been doing it for that long. So it's like 572 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 3: that wasn't meant to be like some hot take. But 573 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 3: I didn't expect to like him more than I like 574 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 3: Trevor Lawrence, who had previously been the best prospect I 575 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: had ever scouted. But man, he's got that extra gear. 576 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 3: He does have that Mahomes thing. I don't think the 577 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 3: Mahomes comps are crazy, and I usually and usually when 578 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: I hear Mahomes comps, I like roll my eyes, like 579 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: the Zach Wilson stuff, like, oh he's Mahomes Aaron Rodgers, like, no, 580 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: nobody's that guy. But you turn on the tape with 581 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 3: with kleb and he has that that quick twitch reaction. 582 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 3: It's not like the quick twitch athleticism. It's like I 583 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 3: see the guy open, and I process what I have 584 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 3: to do to get the ball to him. Like I 585 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 3: see the defender has leverage inside, so I throw it outside. 586 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: I see the defender has leverage like underneath the receiver, 587 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: so I throw it over the top of his head. 588 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 3: I have a guy about to hit me, about to 589 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 3: smack me in the face, And I process all of 590 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 3: that in like zero point three seconds, and then I 591 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: make the throw. And the throw is usually like forty 592 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 3: yards downfield and then it's on target. Like he's accurate, 593 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 3: he has arm strength, his accuracy doesn't fall off when 594 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 3: he has to put a little more zip on the ball. 595 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 3: His acuracy doesn't fall off when he has to move 596 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 3: outside of the pocket. He keeps his eyes up for 597 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 3: the most part when he is flush out of the pocket. 598 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 3: He remains a passer at all times until he is 599 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 3: forced to scramble, basically, and when he does scramble, he 600 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: makes magic happen. God, I'm getting worked up just talking 601 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 3: about him, but I ah, I'm a Panthers fan, and 602 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 3: it makes me sad. Every time I turn on his 603 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 3: film that they traded this pick. 604 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: Way, I can only imagine. 605 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 2: I think, with what they have around Bryce, for your sake, 606 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 2: I think he'll be a lot better this year, given 607 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 2: what they have to deal with last year, which. 608 00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: Was just a nightmare. Gihnant. Fans love a winner. 609 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: Why they love Citizens Day In the twenty twenty two 610 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: Best Bank in the US by the Banker as the 611 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: official bank of the Giants and sponsor the huddle, Citizens 612 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: has made ready for fans of being Blue. Learned more 613 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: at citizens bank dot com. All right, Steven, let's hit 614 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 2: the other quarterbacks here. Let's get to Drake May He's 615 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 2: my quarterback two, and I'll just I'll be very simple 616 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: about it. 617 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: One. 618 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: I think he's very good at making those scrambles on 619 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: third downs to get some critical first downs. I think 620 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 2: people underad his athleticism for one. But more importantly, just 621 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 2: look at the Georgia Tech game. I mean, my god, 622 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: these throws in the middle of the field in track. 623 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 2: It looks like you throw you into a team meeting. 624 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 2: But he knows to get in exactly the right spot 625 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 2: to complete these passes. And more than and even more 626 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 2: than Caleb than any other quarterback in this class. He 627 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: has more of those middle of the field intermediate ten 628 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: to twenty five yard middle of the field throws that 629 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 2: I think you need to have the guts to throw 630 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: and the brain to throw. In the NFL. That's going 631 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: to translate. I know he scattershot a little bit, and 632 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: some of the decision making fine, No one's gonna open. 633 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: His protection sucked for most of the year. I'm gonna 634 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: give him a pass on those two things. I love 635 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: his upside. If he gets coached up, I think he's 636 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: gonna be a fantastic quarterback. 637 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 3: He's what it looks like. He's what it looks like 638 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 3: when you watch That's what great quarterbacks look like when 639 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: they throw the football. And he was. We talked about 640 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: how impossible that offense was to watch, but he and 641 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 3: how impossible it is to like translate it to the 642 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: next level. But he's so good that he made it 643 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 3: easy to translate his game to the next level. Like 644 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: that's how good he was. He stood out from the 645 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 3: rest of the offense. I do have some of the 646 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 3: concerns you kind of laid out, like he is a 647 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: little scattershow he's got a little Sam Donald in him. 648 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: That's what I'll say. There's a little bit of Sam 649 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: Donald in him. 650 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 2: And I was a Sam Donald believer, so maybe I'm 651 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: on the same trap. Again, I don't know. 652 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 3: Donald was my QB two in that in that class, 653 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: so uh that that was another formative class for me. 654 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 3: That that really changed the way I look at quarterbacks. 655 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 3: But man, he makes the throws you have to make 656 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 3: to be a top level NFL quarterback. It's those little 657 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 3: things that he has to shore up, and it's not 658 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 3: the stuff that I said you can't really teach like 659 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 3: he has the instinct in the pocket. He can he 660 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 3: can deal with pressure. He knows what to do when 661 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: there's presure in his face. He can deal with it 662 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: either going to his right, going to his left, stepping 663 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: up in the pocket, which I think he does better 664 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 3: than a lot of the quarterbacks in this class. And 665 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 3: then he also can throw off his back foot, which 666 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 3: I think is like a new tool that quarterbacks really 667 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: are leaning into, especially the top level quarterbacks like Jordan 668 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 3: Love is the best example who he throws that fade 669 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: away ball that's so hard to defend, and that's what 670 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: makes his play under pressure so good. And I think 671 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: Drake May has that he made one throw I'm forgetting 672 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 3: the game, but it was a backfoot throw that traveled 673 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 3: like fifty yards in fifty yards through the air and 674 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: it was a touchdown. It was just an amazing throw, 675 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, that's I mean, that's enough. 676 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 3: That's all I need to see. Like I'm picking that 677 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 3: top five every single year. But he does have like 678 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 3: other parts to his game. It's not just the flash. 679 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 3: There is like some there's something there to him. He's 680 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 3: a good quarterback. He knows what he's doing. You could 681 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: see that. I can't wait to see him in a 682 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 3: real offense, like a real NFL, a drop back passing offense. 683 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 3: I think he's going to be so much better than 684 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 3: he was in college, and he was damn good in college. 685 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: All right, let's get to McCarthy. This is kind of 686 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: the giant fan debate that's been happening. I'm not sure 687 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: how much you've seen it. And I think McCarthy's interesting. 688 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: I think he's going to be a pretty good NFL quarterback. 689 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 2: But to the point I made to you earlier, I 690 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: have trouble envisioning him becoming that top eight level player. 691 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: I like the way throws over the middle of the field. 692 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: I think he's accurate. I don't like the deep ball. 693 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: I don't think he was great touch, and he never 694 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 2: really had to play from behind and things of that 695 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: nature that make things more difficult on quarterbacks. 696 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: What's your overall take on McCarthy. 697 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, I liked him better than I thought I would, 698 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 3: the type of quarterback I tend to go for. I 699 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 3: watch him a little bit earlier in the year, like 700 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: in September and October. I had more energy. You know, 701 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 3: the season hadn't really kicked in, so I was watching 702 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 3: college film by December that was done. But I caught 703 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: up with his film recently, and I really did like 704 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 3: him a lot better than I thought I would. I'm 705 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 3: agreeing with you a lot. Like my main concern is 706 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 3: the touch. I do think he has a strong arm, 707 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: but I think it's sort of like the Zach Wilson 708 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 3: thing where he can really whip it when he has 709 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 3: the time and space to do it. But when there's 710 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: when they're defenders around, there are big bodies around, the 711 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 3: arm looks a little bit weaker, and I don't think 712 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 3: he ain't necessarily I think he has arm strength. I 713 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 3: don't know if he has armed talent. 714 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: And when he had to do that backfoot fadeaway stuff, 715 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: I feel like the accuracy degraded a lot with him 716 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 2: on tape. 717 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another thing, and that's why I don't really 718 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 3: think he has armed talent, so to speak. I don't 719 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 3: think he can make a lot of variety of throws. 720 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 3: I don't He could throw the fastball, but he doesn't 721 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 3: have the curve ball. He doesn't have the slider. He 722 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: doesn't have the off speed stuff that Mahomes has that 723 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 3: Joe Burrow definitely has. Because Joe Burg doesn't really have 724 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 3: the great basketball that all these great quarterbacks have. This 725 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 3: is gonna be a weird comparison, but I just mean 726 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 3: this strictly as strictly about like the types of throws 727 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 3: he can make. He reminds me of a lot of 728 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 3: Cam Newton, because Cam Newton like and I'm a big 729 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: Cam Newton fan. He's my favorite quarterback of all time 730 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: as a Panthers. But Cam Newton could never throw a touch. 731 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 3: He could never get it up and over the second 732 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: level of the defense. He always had to throw stuff 733 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 3: on the line, which limited the type of throws he 734 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: could make and affected his accuracy, like you said, and 735 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: he was deemed an inaccurate quarterback because of that. I 736 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 3: don't think Cam was an inaccurate quarterback. I just don't 737 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 3: think he had the finesse with his arm to make 738 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 3: all the throws. And I would say the same thing 739 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 3: about McCarthy. Like he watch this film, I don't think 740 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: anyone would be like, oh, yeah, this is an inaccurate guy. 741 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 3: But in those instances, he really does have trouble getting 742 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: the ball to the receiver. 743 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Pay Day comes early with citizens, 744 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 4: so go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country. 745 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are 746 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 4: you ready for all that life brings? 747 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 2: No, I'm with you, and I guess the question I have. 748 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: And look, we know Daniel Jones has had issues in 749 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 2: the pro staying healthy, being one the situation around him 750 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: has not been good at all. But I guess my 751 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 2: question is the overall package enough of an upgrade where 752 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: you're foregoing a potential one legitimate, number one level wide 753 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: receiver or number one offensive tack if you want to 754 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: go there. I'm more of the wide receiver crew that's fine, 755 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 2: or even having to trade up, because I don't think 756 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: one of these four quarterbacks is gonna be there. 757 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: When the Giants pick at six. 758 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: Between the Broncos, the Vikings, and the Raiders, someone's gonna 759 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: try to move in there. I think, to grab this 760 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: fourth quarterback, and I just wonder if the upside is 761 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: big enough and the upgrade is big enough to make 762 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 2: that type of move and for go that other legitimate 763 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: blue chip talent at a premium position when you're making 764 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 2: that pick. 765 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: If McCarthy ends up being the fourth guy. 766 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 3: No, I don't think he has that upside. I really don't. 767 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: And I'm of the opinion that if I'm dressing a 768 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 3: quarterback in the first round, I want him to have 769 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 3: that upside. Whether he's like a project and it's a 770 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 3: long shot, or he's more of a finished product project, 771 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 3: but it's easy to envision what he is. I think 772 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 3: with McCarthy there's a wide range of outcomes, but I 773 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 3: don't think on the high end, like elite quarterback plays 774 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 3: in that range of outcomes, And that's what scares me. 775 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: Like as I would be elated to take him at 776 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,720 Speaker 3: the top of the second round, I would even consider 777 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 3: taking him at the bottom of the first round, where 778 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 3: I think the thinking changes a little bit with quarterbacks, and. 779 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 2: Hell, if you're the Broncos and you pick him at thirteen, 780 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 2: I get that too. 781 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 3: I understand that, but yeah, I'm not reaching for him. 782 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: And I think, like, if you're the Giants, especially, you 783 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 3: kind of get stuck in the same place you were 784 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 3: with with Jones. Where I was high on Jones coming 785 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 3: into the drift, I know a lot of people were 786 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 3: low on them. They're like, I can't believe this kid's 787 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 3: even considered a first round prospect when you watch that 788 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 3: Duke film. He had no chance behind that Duke offensive 789 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 3: line and with that Duke receiving course, like he literally 790 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 3: had like the worst offensive line in terms of pressure 791 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 3: allowed and then one of the worst receiving corps in 792 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 3: terms of drops. I don't know how you kind of 793 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 3: win as a quarterback when you have those circumstances. But 794 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,959 Speaker 3: I saw Jones as like a mid first round pick, 795 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 3: Like if you took him with the twentieth pick, I 796 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 3: would be really happy. And I feel the same way 797 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 3: about McCarthy. Six is just a little too high. It's 798 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 3: a little too rich for my blood. I agree. I 799 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 3: think if you put him in the right system. If 800 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 3: you put him in Minnesota where they have a good, 801 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 3: young offensive line, they obviously have receivers to throw to 802 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 3: with Jefferson, and then he has a scheme that I 803 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 3: think will play to his strengths because they run a 804 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 3: lot of play actions. They're not asking him to go 805 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 3: get a bucket as like an is of score. 806 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 4: You know. 807 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 3: I think it could work. It could look like a 808 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 3: lot like how things look for rock Perty in San Francisco. 809 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 3: But if you're expecting him to be the guy that 810 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 3: elevates your offense, which is what you're looking for, if 811 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 3: you're taking a guy in the top ten, I think 812 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 3: you're gonna be disappointed. 813 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: You have time to roll through Nixon Penix real quick. 814 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's do it, all right, let's. 815 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: Do it Pennis. 816 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: Unlike McCarthy, I like Penix a little bit less when 817 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 2: I watched him on tape. I watched his last six 818 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 2: games of the year, and I watched his early film 819 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 2: earlier in the year, and he's not a bad quarterback. 820 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 2: I think as a day two guy, it's fun. But boy, 821 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 2: we talked about Daniels and his lack of creation. That's 822 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 2: Penis on Panix is that on steroids, right, Like pressure comes, 823 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: he just tries to get the ball out. 824 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 1: I don't think. 825 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: He's as accurate as some people think he is because 826 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: a lot of time his guys are wide open and 827 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 2: he hits them. And there's not a lot of those 828 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 2: middle of the field small window throws either. 829 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: So I'm not. 830 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: As big on him as other people always think he 831 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,479 Speaker 2: could be a first round pick. I think that would 832 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 2: be a mistake if a team decides to pick him 833 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 2: in the first round. 834 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, Panics is one of those quarterbacks just given his situation, 835 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 3: his evolution in college, like starting at Indiana obviously going 836 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 3: through the injury concerns, and then Layden in this really 837 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 3: an ideal spot for a quarterback prospect. And then the 838 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 3: fact that he ran a four to four at his 839 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 3: pro day and I know it's a pro day time, 840 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 3: but apparently he's got four four speed and it didn't 841 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 3: show up on film ever. It's it's such a hard evaluation. 842 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 3: Like he he was in clean pockets, he was throwing 843 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 3: the NFL receivers with NFL catch radiuses like That's That's 844 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 3: the thing that really makes judging Zacary's herd is like 845 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 3: a Dunze like could catch any ball. You just throw 846 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 3: it in his vicinity and he was gonna haul it in. 847 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 3: My problem with Penis and maybe it's like an aesthetic thing, 848 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 3: is like it's something I'm laughing about the fact that 849 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 3: he's left handed kind of throws with a side arm delivery. 850 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 3: But like we're humans and we have human eyes, and 851 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 3: it's really hard to like get over how it looks 852 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 3: when he throws a football. It doesn't look like what 853 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 3: it typically looks like. I said, like Drake May, that's 854 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 3: what it looks like, Penix, like, that's what it doesn't 855 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 3: look like. That's not what an NFL quarterback looks like. 856 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 3: But at the same time, there are some examples of 857 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 3: a quarterback that doesn't throw the ball like prototypically that 858 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 3: works out like Philip Rivers, for instance, throws a lot 859 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 3: like Michael Pennix, and I've seen some people compare them. 860 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 3: I don't think that comparison is good at all, But 861 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,959 Speaker 3: it's the it's the quarterback stuff that kind of falls 862 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 3: short for me. I do think he has a strong 863 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 3: arm and he can zip it. I just don't think 864 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 3: he's the processor that you would want to see out 865 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 3: of a fifth year prospect. He is not Joe Burrow. 866 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 3: Joe Burrow is like the only prospect I can remember 867 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 3: in the last decade who kind of stayed longer than 868 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 3: you expect a pro prospect to stay in college and 869 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 3: didn't have like the hot start to the beginning of 870 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 3: his career in college. But you could see the NFL 871 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 3: processing on tape. You could really see it in that offense. 872 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 3: You don't see it with Penix. He looks like a 873 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 3: prototypical college quarterback. He looks like a guy who is 874 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 3: a year older than everybody else he's playing with, Like 875 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 3: that was his advantage last year, and that's hard for 876 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 3: me to get over. I don't see any top level 877 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 3: NFL quarterback plays on his film, and I'm not really 878 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 3: exaggerating there. He did not use that four four speed 879 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 3: if that timing is true, he did not use that 880 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 3: at all. And the times he did try to scramble 881 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 3: out of the pocket, it wasn't a Stroud situation where 882 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 3: Stroud didn't have to create out of structure because the 883 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 3: structure was so good. There were times when he had 884 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 3: an opportunity to create out of structure and he just 885 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 3: couldn't do it. He got caught by a defensive lineman 886 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 3: in the Pac twelve. How is that going to look 887 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 3: in the NFL when you're going up against like first 888 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 3: round athletes. I don't see the upside with them. 889 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, that scheme was so good and his 890 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: receivers are so good. 891 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 2: These guys are wide open a lot of the times 892 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 2: down the field, and he just didn't have to see 893 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 2: that that sort of NFOL stuff. 894 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I understand why. 895 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 2: And I feel like Bo Knicks is like the former 896 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 2: NFL quarterback's favorite quarterback in this draft. Like I think 897 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: Kurt Warner even had that in one of his tweets 898 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 2: right where he's like, yeah, I see Bo Knicks because 899 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 2: he takes even though he's in gun, he does the 900 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 2: three steps, the ball comes out, five steps, ball comes out. 901 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: The problem is that it immediately comes out to a 902 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 2: guy that's like six parts to have the field, and 903 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: I just don't know about his arm strength and making 904 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,720 Speaker 2: those NFL level throws in those intermediate to deep areas. 905 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 2: But I understand why these people watch him and they're like, 906 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 2: all right, this guy looks like he knows how to 907 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: play the position because the ball seems to come out 908 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 2: on time and pretty accurately. 909 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 3: Kurt was like, Oh, this looks like me. This was 910 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 3: like me and that greatest Greatest show on turf offense, 911 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 3: the ball just got to come out and Tory Holton, 912 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 3: Isaac Bruce, they'll, they'll, they'll be where I expect them 913 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 3: to be. But yeah, and the and the one thing 914 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 3: that kind of turned me off with this film was 915 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 3: a lot of like, not pump fakes, because pump fakes 916 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,879 Speaker 3: are on intentional, but a lot of like hesitancy when 917 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 3: throwing the football, a lot of like yeah, a lot 918 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 3: of hitches, a lot of cockying the ball, a lot 919 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 3: of and he would do it to a guy that 920 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 3: he would end up throwing to, Like I know Warner 921 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 3: loved his Oregon State tape, but I thought that was 922 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 3: all over his Oregon State tape. He made it like 923 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 3: a great backside throw to a dig route, but he 924 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 3: kind of hesitated, like three times before you finally let 925 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 3: the ball go. In the NFL, you don't have that time, 926 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 3: you don't have that margin for error. And that's what 927 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 3: I want to see. And he's another one of these 928 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 3: guys where I know I said earlier, I'm kind of 929 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 3: contradicting myself where you shouldn't expect to see like NFL 930 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 3: level play and NFL level processing from these guys. But 931 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 3: when you're like a fifth year senior and you've been 932 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: in the game so long and you're closer to a 933 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 3: finished product than these other guys, you do kind of 934 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 3: want to see that stuff already. He needs to be 935 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 3: able to play from day one, because if he can't 936 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 3: and he's like twenty six by the time he gets 937 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 3: into the lineup, it's really tough to catch up to 938 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 3: make up that ground that the other guys, the other 939 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 3: younger guys who got an earlier start, have on you. 940 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,359 Speaker 3: So that's my concern with him is not only like 941 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 3: the talent, the physical talent, which I agree with you on, 942 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 3: it's the conviction in his decision making, and it's the 943 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 3: fact that we're still seeing that hesitancy at this point 944 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 3: in his development. 945 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 2: Do you think any other quarterback could go before Pennix 946 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,439 Speaker 2: and or Nicks as quarterbacks five and six in this draft? 947 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: And who would it be? 948 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 3: We were talking before we started recording about Spencer Rattler, 949 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 3: and I've talked myself into him, but I really think 950 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 3: NFL teams are talking themselves into him. Like at the combine, 951 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 3: the one thing you heard the thing with him was 952 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 3: always about like I don't want to say character issues, 953 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 3: but like attitude issues. And it was based off that 954 00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 3: documentary he was on. I think it was Lebron j 955 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 3: is qb one documentary where he's acted like he was 956 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 3: acting like a jerk, but he was also like seventeen 957 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 3: years old. And I don't know about you, but when 958 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 3: I was seventeen years old and hanging around my friends, 959 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,439 Speaker 3: I was kind of a jerk. 960 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: We all are we all. 961 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 3: I don't want to hold that against But apparently at 962 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 3: South Carolina, who's really really put his head down and 963 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 3: put in the work, and the coaches loved him. So 964 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 3: I think even that part of of the evaluation is 965 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 3: starting to turn for him, and you turn on the tape. 966 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 3: But he obviously has a talent. He has a few 967 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 3: processing issues, but those things can be ironed out in 968 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 3: the pros. I think a team might talk themselves into 969 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 3: drafting Spencer Ratley, where as like a twenty four year 970 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 3: old quarterback with questionable a questionable track record of production 971 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 3: and some injury concerns I think might slip in the draft. 972 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 2: That's interesting all right. Final question, he goes, we all 973 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 2: look at these guys because it's fun. Who's your favorite 974 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 2: wide receiver? 975 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 3: And why I'm going Marvin Harrison Junior. I know that's 976 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 3: the boring pick, but and I know he doesn't like 977 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 3: create the most separation, but he's the surest thing. He 978 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 3: knows how to run routes. He gets opened early in 979 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 3: the routes, he gets opened downfield. He makes contests to catches. 980 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 3: He catches with his hands, which is the one thing 981 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 3: I don't like about Blik Neighbors. He's kind of a 982 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 3: body catcher. He does it all. He does everything you 983 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 3: want in the receiver, and then he could play that 984 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 3: prototypical X role. We can line up on the like 985 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 3: on the line of scrimage, you could deal with press 986 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 3: and I think there are question marks with the other 987 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 3: guys in that regard. 988 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 2: All right, Steven, tell the folks where they can read 989 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 2: all your stuff and then listen to you. 990 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 1: In terms of the ring of podcast network. 991 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on the Ringer NFL show Duel Threat with 992 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 3: Nora Princiatti. And then I also had the quarterback rankings, 993 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 3: which during the season I update every week. But you 994 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 3: can come and look at those We have attribute grades 995 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 3: for all this accuracy, armstrang, decision making, all that good stuff. 996 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 3: We have right ups on every quarterback, so it's not 997 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 3: just quarterback brankings. There's actual scouting reports on every single 998 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 3: guy that's at the Ringer dot com. 999 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: Awesome, Steven, this was a lot of fun. Man. 1000 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 2: It was great doing this with you. Let's let's do 1001 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 2: it again soon and enjoy this three week sprint to 1002 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 2: the draft. 1003 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: My friend. 1004 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a blast anytime, Steven. 1005 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,000 Speaker 1: Reese win the Ringer. Thanks for joining us in the 1006 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: Giants little podcast was See you next time. Everybody,