Speaker 1: Episode three point thirty two is episode one sixty four
Speaker 1: Money Motivation for Moms with Kat Collins.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity and life. Here your hosts Jen
Speaker 2: and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are replaying a
Speaker 1: episode that I personally very much liked and wanted to
Speaker 1: replay for all the moms that were not with us
Speaker 1: when this originally aired several years ago.
Speaker 3: And by not with us, you mean just didn't hear
Speaker 3: it yet.
Speaker 1: Not with not Frugal Friends listeners, or maybe not moms
Speaker 1: two years ago.
Speaker 3: New moms, yes, old moms.
Speaker 1: So this is from my friend Kat Collins previously Kat
Speaker 1: Alfred when we recorded the episode, but she wrote a
Speaker 1: book on money for Moms, and I felt so the
Speaker 1: interview was great, but I felt even more the end
Speaker 1: of the episode was really cathartic, really necessary, and received
Speaker 1: emails after the episode, specifically thanking us for the conversation
Speaker 1: we had at the end of the episode. So, if
Speaker 1: you are a new mom, you know a new mom,
Speaker 1: you want to be a mom, this is a really
Speaker 1: good episode to continue with.
Speaker 3: But first, this episode is brought to you by bread.
Speaker 3: I will take it over dessert any day, especially if
Speaker 3: it's crunchy, flaky, soft warm. And for all you moms
Speaker 3: out there, go ahead just serve bread for dinner. No
Speaker 3: one's gonna complain about that. And if you need more
Speaker 3: bread inspo like how to make bread, save bread, or
Speaker 3: butter that bread, check out our friend Letter. We're in
Speaker 3: your inbox three times a week with freebies, tips to
Speaker 3: save money, and ways to spend better. Get that bread
Speaker 3: for free aka no bread out of your pocket for
Speaker 3: this friend Little Letter. Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash friend Letter.
Speaker 3: I like bread.
Speaker 1: We alternate weeks writing the friend Letter, and you can
Speaker 1: tell the weeks that Jill writes it. Lots of bread,
Speaker 1: lots of talk about.
Speaker 3: Bread, hot dogs, butter. I mean, it's not just those things.
Speaker 3: So if you hate those things, still get the friend
Speaker 3: Letter because there's also free stuff. Everyone likes free.
Speaker 1: Yes, but those are strong themes on Jill weeks O
Speaker 1: Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash friend Letter. But if you
Speaker 1: are looking for more female centric episodes to queue up,
Speaker 1: we've got three hundred and thirty one.
Speaker 3: Of them because we are females talking.
Speaker 1: Those are our females, and we know that most of
Speaker 1: our audience are females or female identifying, and we we
Speaker 1: love girl Power. But a couple of our episodes that
Speaker 1: might be more appropriate, maybe or more focused on that
Speaker 1: episode three seventeen when Women Have Money with Jeane Chatsky,
Speaker 1: episode two of three, how Maggie paid off her mortgage
Speaker 1: as a divorced single mom. That one great, especially if
Speaker 1: you're like a bread winning mom. That is a good one.
Speaker 3: Brad, look at your tie in to Brad say, we
Speaker 3: can't talk about it.
Speaker 4: Heyo.
Speaker 1: Let's get into this episode with our friend Kat Collins. Kat,
Speaker 1: welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. We're so excited to
Speaker 1: have you here.
Speaker 4: Wow, thank you so much for inviting me on to
Speaker 4: be here.
Speaker 5: Kat.
Speaker 3: I think that this is a message and a topic
Speaker 3: that so many people want to hear about. So we're
Speaker 3: really looking forward to hearing more of what's in your
Speaker 3: book and more of the behind the scenes about that.
Speaker 3: So thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4: Sure, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, first, I think it'd be an interesting story. Tell
Speaker 1: us how you got interested in personal finance.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I got into personal finance and sort of
Speaker 4: a backwards way. I actually went to school for history.
Speaker 4: I went to graduate school for history thinking I would
Speaker 4: be a curator, work in museums, do education, and I
Speaker 4: started a blog when I was super broke in my
Speaker 4: graduate school program. I was making a twelve thousand dollars
Speaker 4: a year my teaching assistant Stipen, and so as a
Speaker 4: bit of a creative outlet to take a break from
Speaker 4: all the like really dense historical theory, I just started
Speaker 4: showing my fifth store fines and like the first apartment
Speaker 4: I ever had by myself, and all these different things,
Speaker 4: and it sort of blossomed. And then I started freelance
Speaker 4: writing to supplement that twelve thousand dollars income. And I
Speaker 4: guess because I was writing about money, it served as
Speaker 4: a portfolio and that's like what I had to pitch
Speaker 4: to potential jobs. And it just sort of took off
Speaker 4: from there, and instead of working in museums, I ended up,
Speaker 4: you know, moving abroad or my husband went to school.
Speaker 4: Kept writing and by the time I came back to
Speaker 4: the States, I was making enough money to have it
Speaker 4: as my full time job.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Along the way, like people would assign the articles that
Speaker 4: I knew nothing about, Like, hey, could you write an
Speaker 4: article about mortgages? I really like how you write. And
Speaker 4: I never had a mortgage before my entire life, but
Speaker 4: because I was a historian, I knew how to research.
Speaker 4: I'd be like, totally, I can write about your mortgages. Totally,
Speaker 4: I can write about I mean I remember writing about
Speaker 4: IRA for the first time and having no idea what
Speaker 4: that was. So over the course of like a decade
Speaker 4: of doing this, I learned a lot along the way,
Speaker 4: and now I do this full time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's similar to how I learned a lot about
Speaker 1: personal finding grating.
Speaker 4: That's what I can tell just reading right.
Speaker 1: It is a lot of research and a lot of googling.
Speaker 1: I loved the story in your book where you were
Speaker 1: you were in was it the Caribbean, and you kind
Speaker 1: of had this backwards way of like some people will
Speaker 1: work and do a side hustle to try and leave
Speaker 1: their job, and you were there and You're like, well,
Speaker 1: there's no jobs for me, Yeah, so I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: have to like do it myself.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 4: I would just I mean, my husband, you know, was
Speaker 4: in his first two years of medical school down there
Speaker 4: and I used to just sit next to him. He'd
Speaker 4: study for hours and hours and the hours, and I
Speaker 4: just sat next to him and just kept pitching freelance
Speaker 4: writing jobs, like we had no money, and I see
Speaker 4: so excited. I'd be like, Oh, this one's going to
Speaker 4: pay me twelve dollars for a post. And I felt
Speaker 4: like a real writer, you know. But that's how it started,
Speaker 4: and it was just that hustle. I had no distractions,
Speaker 4: nothing else to do, no malls. I just I just
Speaker 4: spent that whole first two years as a growth phase,
Speaker 4: and it led to what I do now.
Speaker 3: Just getting thrown into the fire. I feel like I
Speaker 3: hear this so often from people. I didn't really know it,
Speaker 3: but I knew that I had the tools to figure
Speaker 3: it out. And I think that that applies to pretty
Speaker 3: much any field, especially with the amount of information we
Speaker 3: have available to us. It's okay if you don't feel
Speaker 3: like an expert immediately just start reading, start researching, watch videos,
Speaker 3: learn from others, and you can become the expert that
Speaker 3: you want to be. Amazing what we can pull out
Speaker 3: of your story.
Speaker 4: Exactly, And you know, I mean, we all have these moments,
Speaker 4: like am I qualified to write? A money book, like
Speaker 4: should I, But I included the story. I included like
Speaker 4: how it came to be and that I, you know,
Speaker 4: actually have like lobal arts degrees to kind of show
Speaker 4: people that, Like if I started like that and ended
Speaker 4: up writing a money book, like you can learn this.
Speaker 4: You can you know, start from nothing and gather gather
Speaker 4: the knowledge enough to then teach others over time.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So let's talk about your book, Kat, Why did
Speaker 3: you see a need for a personal finance book specifically
Speaker 3: geared towards moms. Can you talk about that a bit?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's a lot of advice geared towards moms,
Speaker 4: but I felt like it wasn't high level enough. Like
Speaker 4: I would read all these articles, and I'd read other
Speaker 4: people's blog posts and be like, hey, moms, here are
Speaker 4: some ways to save money. And it'd be like, so
Speaker 4: when you go to the grocery store, you know, write
Speaker 4: your lists and do this and don't forget your coupon book.
Speaker 4: And you know, I felt like, of course, moms like
Speaker 4: can figure that out on their own, but I was
Speaker 4: missing the language that would speak to moms as if
Speaker 4: they were like highly intelligent powerhouses, totally capable of more
Speaker 4: complex money decisions than just going to the grocery store.
Speaker 4: And so I just wanted to, you, you know, bring
Speaker 4: that to the market because I wanted to show moms
Speaker 4: that they were capable of kind of taking a leadership
Speaker 4: position when it came to money, and that even if
Speaker 4: they knew nothing about it starting the book, that they
Speaker 4: were more than capable of getting there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just feel empowered. You talk like this, Queen.
Speaker 1: So many moms, like stay at home moms, homeschooling, whatever,
Speaker 1: they're college educated, they're smart. It's like we have this
Speaker 1: stereotype places that like like moms, especially stay home moms,
Speaker 1: just went to college to get a husband, and that's
Speaker 1: absolutely not true. They're highly educated and choose, they've made
Speaker 1: their own life choices right right, But they haven't like
Speaker 1: they haven't lost themselves.
Speaker 4: Like their brains are still in there, you know, Bobby
Speaker 4: on some days, you know, taking care of kids, but
Speaker 4: still in there. And I mean I've always like away
Speaker 4: about high expectations of myself of others, and I even
Speaker 4: with my friends, you know, I'm like, you can do more,
Speaker 4: you can learn more, and I think all of us
Speaker 4: have the potential to really learn about this stuff.
Speaker 3: I love what you said there, and I do think
Speaker 3: it's a bit of a controversial peace, but I'm going
Speaker 3: to go with it because once we explain it more,
Speaker 3: I think we get it. The do more you can
Speaker 3: do more. I think that that's initially a statement that's like, no,
Speaker 3: stop telling women that they need to do more. So
Speaker 3: we're telling moms that they need to do more. But
Speaker 3: I so agree with you in the sense of there
Speaker 3: is more available to you. And I think that what
Speaker 3: we're talking about is one of the things that can
Speaker 3: lead to so much difficulty internally and possibly even externally
Speaker 3: for specifically moms who are trying to juggle so many things.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's on everybody's plate is different, but a
Speaker 3: lot of times, especially where there is just this sexpect
Speaker 3: to raise children, there's all these other aspects of a
Speaker 3: woman's personhood that then get missed, that feel stifled, that
Speaker 3: lead to feeling stuck, that feel like I'm not operating
Speaker 3: to my fullest potential, and yet society is saying no,
Speaker 3: but this thing should fulfill you, So stop complaining and
Speaker 3: just like do more in your home. And I think
Speaker 3: what you're describing here is there's more than just grocery shopping.
Speaker 3: You are capable of more, and there are outlets for more,
Speaker 3: and like helping people rise to that next level is
Speaker 3: beautiful and I think it allows those outlets that moms
Speaker 3: need to be able to feel their fullest self.
Speaker 4: Right, this is about fulfillment. And this isn't about do
Speaker 4: more as in like let's add ten more things to
Speaker 4: your list. This is about you know, in those quiet
Speaker 4: moments during the day or in the evening, when you
Speaker 4: have the thought to yourself, like is this really all
Speaker 4: this is? Is this all it's going to be? And
Speaker 4: you wonder if you're the only one that thinks like that,
Speaker 4: Like these are the moments that I'm like, you know, yeah,
Speaker 4: you went to college, you graduated with like seventy nine
Speaker 4: ten years ago, Like you can still pick up something new,
Speaker 4: you can still like enhance your life, Like it wasn't
Speaker 4: like this part of your life. You were a student
Speaker 4: and you learned and now you're in this motherhood hood part.
Speaker 4: You know, you still have all your interests. And I
Speaker 4: think stay at home moms, working moms, I just think
Speaker 4: we all need to have something just for us. And
Speaker 4: you know, even if you're your day's ninety percent kids.
Speaker 4: I still think you should have like a little ten
Speaker 4: percent of something just for you, because our kids aren't
Speaker 4: always going to be here under our roofs, you know,
Speaker 4: and when they leave, if that was all your life
Speaker 4: was wrapped up in them all the time, you're going
Speaker 4: to have this really empty feeling when they go and
Speaker 4: they go off to college, and so I try to
Speaker 4: keep pieces for me along the way so that there's
Speaker 4: you know, stuff to do when they go. Might are
Speaker 4: going at the same time.
Speaker 3: So yes, you have twins for those who don't know,
Speaker 3: which yeah, so fun and so terrifying.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean I so agree with you, and I think
Speaker 1: sometimes it can definitely make you feel a little guilty
Speaker 1: to try and keep that peace for yourself. And I
Speaker 1: know Jill like helps me with this all the time
Speaker 1: because I feel so much guilt for like, I think
Speaker 1: I should be able.
Speaker 5: To do it all all the time.
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, it's okay for Travis to watch
Speaker 1: Kai because he is he made half of him, you know,
Speaker 1: so like it's okay.
Speaker 3: Baby watched.
Speaker 1: She literally had to tell me that the other day.
Speaker 1: It's not babysitting when the father is watching.
Speaker 3: We were cool and she's like, I abandoned my child.
Speaker 3: I was like, you need to get that language like
Speaker 3: out of your head and out of your mouth.
Speaker 5: I wasn't saying it dramatically.
Speaker 3: You are sitting by the side of the pool while
Speaker 3: your husband is with your son. You abandoned nobody.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's hard. I mean we placed a lot
Speaker 4: of pressure on ourselves. And you know, even if you
Speaker 4: have a really even distribution of labor in your house,
Speaker 4: some people have more than others. You know, moms still
Speaker 4: feel like the primary parent, default parents, and that's just
Speaker 4: kind of the way our culture and society has has evolved.
Speaker 4: And to even push back against it a little bit
Speaker 4: just feels weird and feels wrong. But yeah, it's hard
Speaker 4: for me too, you know, it's hard for me to
Speaker 4: I just recently told my husband, you know, I'm going
Speaker 4: to be like a day at a hotel soon, you know,
Speaker 4: like it doesn't have to you know it, It can
Speaker 4: be five minutes away, but I think I need What
Speaker 4: I was hoping for was twenty four hours without having
Speaker 4: to like have the right answer to everything. You know,
Speaker 4: everybody's got a lot of feelings at this age seven,
Speaker 4: and you want to respond in a way that's like
Speaker 4: healthy and like you want to validate it. I just
Speaker 4: don't want to validate anyone for like twenty four hours,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 5: So Yeah, but even feeling like.
Speaker 4: Asking for it is hard, you know, saying that you
Speaker 4: need a minute or break or something. All of that's
Speaker 4: really challenging. I don't know why, because my husband just
Speaker 4: went to a conference in Chicago last weekend. He's like
Speaker 4: going to a conference, and I'm like, okay, no doubt.
Speaker 7: It's like I don't know.
Speaker 5: Different, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So on the on the subject of like your kids, Yeah,
Speaker 1: how does like dealing with personal finances when you have
Speaker 1: multiple young children at home?
Speaker 5: Like, how does that differ?
Speaker 1: How can moms like do their personal finances like differently?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean each additional kid, right, whether you have
Speaker 4: them one at a time or two at once. I mean,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of different things to consider. And one
Speaker 4: interesting thing that's come up is, especially with twins, you know,
Speaker 4: you always try to treat them equally. Like I for
Speaker 4: a long time, I had them each in one activity
Speaker 4: and I was like, Okay, well tennis cost this much
Speaker 4: and ballet costs us much and they were like close
Speaker 4: and it felt you know, like I tried to, you know,
Speaker 4: I give them each the opportunity for the same allowance
Speaker 4: or you know, all these different things. They go to
Speaker 4: the same private school, and so you try really hard
Speaker 4: to be equal. But as they get older, different things
Speaker 4: e merge. Right, one child might have like a medical issue,
Speaker 4: or one child might need additional therapy for some something else,
Speaker 4: and then it gets way skewed. So I think when
Speaker 4: you have multiple kids, I think it's good to try
Speaker 4: to at least even it out. But it's really hard
Speaker 4: to even it out money wise, financially, to spend equally
Speaker 4: on each kid. And yeah, my husband and I we
Speaker 4: have a budget meeting once a month. We kind of
Speaker 4: organize things. Budget meetings go way better than they did
Speaker 4: when we got married eleven years ago. It's a lot
Speaker 4: smoother now, got a lot a lot of practice.
Speaker 3: In Yeah, good work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, even now, even now, like at
Speaker 4: a higher income, we still ask each other if we're
Speaker 4: going to spend something over fifty dollars that's like extra
Speaker 4: or outside. And we have like a little system now,
Speaker 4: but we talk about the kids and what to spend
Speaker 4: on them in summer camp and family vacations and all
Speaker 4: those things come up in our budget meetings, and the
Speaker 4: childcare thing. We're past that part now, but that was
Speaker 4: a big discussion too, especially for moms adding a second kid,
Speaker 4: that's a big thing. Oh am, I going to wait
Speaker 4: till this one's five and in school? Do I have
Speaker 4: them back to back? Do you know? All of these
Speaker 4: things are big money conversations that have to happen.
Speaker 3: I love how you've paired, Yeah, the money conversation and
Speaker 3: how you have to take children into consideration. So this
Speaker 3: is Jill talking for those listening. I have no kids,
Speaker 3: and so even hearing you describe this, it's apparent to
Speaker 3: me how different it is to live for myself and
Speaker 3: my husband. What do they call that dink life? Double
Speaker 3: income no kids? Yeah, maybe double income with kids. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know if there's an acronym for that. Like,
Speaker 3: there is a big pivot that happens, and you are
Speaker 3: responsible for people, responsible for keeping them alive and then
Speaker 3: fed and a roof over their head, And especially if
Speaker 3: you're not dealing with a large income, there's definitely a
Speaker 3: lot of money decisions that need to be made and
Speaker 3: conversations and so this is absolutely a part of a
Speaker 3: mom's life. But just a person's life a person with kids.
Speaker 3: So I love that you've paired the two and have
Speaker 3: made it approachable for Yeah, specifically moms who want to
Speaker 3: be empowered in this area.
Speaker 1: What do you say, Like when I see a lot
Speaker 1: of parents putting trying to put like spending money on
Speaker 1: their kids is a priority over like investing money in themselves,
Speaker 1: so like they'll try and invest, they'll try and get
Speaker 1: their kid a car or invest in their college before
Speaker 1: they've invested in their own retirement or paid off their
Speaker 1: own debt. And I can see how that would happen. Like,
Speaker 1: you want to give your child a better life, but
Speaker 1: when you sacrifice your own finances, you're actually not giving
Speaker 1: that child a better life.
Speaker 5: They're going to have to take care of you, right.
Speaker 1: What do you say to moms that like feel that way?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know I struggle with this too, Like even
Speaker 4: just in little ways, Like both of my kids' rooms
Speaker 4: are so cool. They like my son has a super
Speaker 4: cool bed. It's like a loft bed, like you know,
Speaker 4: they got all this cool stuff in there, and like
Speaker 4: our bed has like no headboard, like no, like you know,
Speaker 4: it's like I still have like the lamps I had
Speaker 4: like in colleges, like we don't like for us, it's
Speaker 4: something for them. You get the cool bed, you know,
Speaker 4: And so I can see how that happens. You know,
Speaker 4: when you have kids, you place their knees above yours,
Speaker 4: and the littlest ways in the big ways, like you know,
Speaker 4: if there's one cookie left, I'm cutting it in half
Speaker 4: and giving it to each twitter. I'm not eating it myself.
Speaker 5: Right, that's just.
Speaker 4: Basic, basic stuff. So then we get some more complicated
Speaker 4: things and then eventually, right, the best gift we can
Speaker 4: give to our kids is to be stable and financially
Speaker 4: independent as we age. It's definitely challenging, right, and so
Speaker 4: I mean I would say, right intellectually, the best thing
Speaker 4: to do is to make sure that you're prioritizing your
Speaker 4: own retirement. And if you can't do that and paper
Speaker 4: your kids college, then help your kids be responsible. But
Speaker 4: I know in practice parents are going to want to
Speaker 4: lean into helping their kids, and so especially we have
Speaker 4: young kids right now, this is something to think about,
Speaker 4: you know, this is something to look really hard at
Speaker 4: your income. Do I have an income problem versus a
Speaker 4: spending problem? Do I need to spend the next five
Speaker 4: to six years really focusing on my career, leaning hard.
Speaker 4: Do I need to switch jobs? What can I do?
Speaker 4: Because to me, the answer isn't. I don't prefer oh,
Speaker 4: let's spend less or let's pick us over them. For me,
Speaker 4: my default is let's make more. What can we make?
Speaker 4: What can we earn? Like, what other business can we buy?
Speaker 4: What can we do? How can we optimize? Because to me, like,
Speaker 4: my solution is always earning more so that this is
Speaker 4: not a problem and I can take care of all
Speaker 4: the things. And I think there's such a scarcity mindset
Speaker 4: and people are like, you know, I read something the
Speaker 4: other day like this mom said, oh, my husband and
Speaker 4: I are going to retire at seventy instead of sixty
Speaker 4: five so that we can pay for our kids to
Speaker 4: go to college. And to me, I'm like, my business
Speaker 4: brain is like, oh, but there's so many ways you
Speaker 4: could have closed that five year gap. But that's how
Speaker 4: I think. So part of what I do is trying
Speaker 4: to encourage people to think a little bit bigger and
Speaker 4: again kind of recognize their own potential and kind of
Speaker 4: erase the idea of income cap or things like that.
Speaker 4: There's lots of ways to make money, so you can
Speaker 4: achieve all your financial goals and more.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate the way that you're getting people to
Speaker 3: think bigger. It's not just about again the grocery shopping,
Speaker 3: but this challenge. It's like expanding my brain to consider
Speaker 3: it is a better gift to give to your kids
Speaker 3: that you're not going to be financially dependent on them
Speaker 3: in retirement versus college. If it comes down to that,
Speaker 3: it'd be great if we can figure out a way
Speaker 3: to have it all. But there's bigger questions that we
Speaker 3: should be asking rather than kind of just the daily minutia.
Speaker 3: Now that being said, I could see people in different camps. Right,
Speaker 3: some moms choose to work for money. Sometimes some moms
Speaker 3: choose to just work and not get paid for all
Speaker 3: of the work that they do at home or whatever
Speaker 3: the situation is, Right, and you talk about this a
Speaker 3: little bit like the childcare versus career dilemma. I know
Speaker 3: that this is this is another hot topic. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: we can certainly tread lightly, but please share your thoughts
Speaker 3: on this and kind of what you describe in the
Speaker 3: book regarding this concept.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, this, by far, this chapter was the hardest
Speaker 4: chapter to write because I am so pro moms, like
Speaker 4: I want moms to make the decision that's the best
Speaker 4: for them. And I just felt like I just wrote
Speaker 4: this chapter a million times and I had so many
Speaker 4: different people read it, like, am I coming across the
Speaker 4: right way? Am I coming across as supportive? Am I
Speaker 4: coming across like I value both options? Because for me,
Speaker 4: I only work about thirty hours a week. I pick
Speaker 4: my kids up from school every day, So the whole
Speaker 4: time they've been born, I've been like half stay at
Speaker 4: home mom, half working mom, and so I kind of, like,
Speaker 4: you know, have a toe in both worlds. So I
Speaker 4: feel like I understand both worlds. My biggest thing in
Speaker 4: this chapter was to educate moms who want to stay
Speaker 4: home if they are working and then decide to stay
Speaker 4: home that this is not a one number problem. So
Speaker 4: often moms say, well, daycare costs the same amount as
Speaker 4: my paycheck that I get, so I'm just going to
Speaker 4: stay home with my kids. But to me, I think
Speaker 4: much more broadly, and I think there are many more
Speaker 4: numbers you need to run. What does it look like
Speaker 4: when you step out of the workforce for five years,
Speaker 4: you lose your employer match. Are you the person that
Speaker 4: has health insurance, you know for your family. Was there
Speaker 4: any other bonuses or a Christmas bonus you always use
Speaker 4: to buy gifts? And what raises would you have been
Speaker 4: eligible for in the next five to seven years. It's
Speaker 4: not just you today the paycheck you know, gets wiped
Speaker 4: out because of the daycare. It's you at sixty five
Speaker 4: wanting to retire those five prime five six prime years
Speaker 4: of investing time in your twenties or early thirties. What
Speaker 4: would that amount have been, you know, in retirement. So
Speaker 4: and remember I left the workforce to start my business,
Speaker 4: so all my benefits come from me, my own health insurance,
Speaker 4: I put my own money into retirement. I have no
Speaker 4: employer match. I am the employer and the employee. So
Speaker 4: all of these things I thought about when I decided
Speaker 4: to leave the workforce. And I thought about my kids too,
Speaker 4: So sometimes the emotional decisions are more important. But I
Speaker 4: just wanted bumps to run every number and to really
Speaker 4: think about it, because it would really suck to leave
Speaker 4: your job and to go home. Well, now you've lost
Speaker 4: your income, and now you feel broke, and you feel stressed.
Speaker 4: Now you have a new baby. Now I feel like
Speaker 4: you can't take them to the zoo or a museum
Speaker 4: because you feel broke and that's not fun either. So
Speaker 4: there's a lot more money considerations that go into it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that as women and especially as moms, we
Speaker 1: may not realize how important it is to stay in
Speaker 1: the workforce and increase our incomes even with kids. Like
Speaker 1: Jill made this amazing revelation last night when we were
Speaker 1: hanging out and just like googling, we looked up this
Speaker 1: is what we do, this is what we do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we looked up the ten richest women in the
Speaker 1: world and the ten richest people, which spoil alert. The
Speaker 1: ten richest people are men, all of ten of them.
Speaker 1: And like, so we looked at the women first, and
Speaker 1: the women, all ten of them had inherited wealth from
Speaker 1: their grandfather, father, or husband. And so Jill was like,
Speaker 1: there's no way the richest people in the world most
Speaker 1: of them had. It has to be generational. Like that
Speaker 1: just make made sense. And so when we looked at
Speaker 1: the men, zero out of ten inherited wealth. They have
Speaker 1: all built it in there.
Speaker 3: In their lifetime, all men, and the amount of wealth
Speaker 3: that they had built in their lifetime was over double
Speaker 3: what the top ten richest women in the world.
Speaker 1: All ten were higher than even the top one woman
Speaker 1: in the world. And we were even talking to Eric
Speaker 1: who's interviewing at his job, and like, the amount that
Speaker 1: women ask for is far less than what men ask for,
Speaker 1: even with comparable experience, And so there's there's a wealth
Speaker 1: gap and there's a wage gap, and I think we
Speaker 1: need to.
Speaker 4: Get away confidence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to get away from this ask for
Speaker 1: what your worth mentality and just ask for more. Ask
Speaker 1: if you ask for more every year, as we're not.
Speaker 3: Good at assessing what our worth is.
Speaker 1: No, we are not good at that and just being
Speaker 1: like working for more and then asking for more or
Speaker 1: going someplace that will that will give it to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know. And I talk about this in the book,
Speaker 4: and you know, everyone's like, well, how much do you
Speaker 4: ask for? And like my answer to that is ask
Speaker 4: for a number that makes you highly uncomfortable. You should
Speaker 4: not feel good sending that email asking for whatever number.
Speaker 4: It should make you want to throw up because it
Speaker 4: feels like so wrong. Because again, we are fighting against
Speaker 4: massive forces, multi generations of cultural and societal pressures that
Speaker 4: tell us like where we fit into society as women
Speaker 4: and mothers, and every time we ask for more. We
Speaker 4: want to please everybody. We are the caretakers. We want
Speaker 4: to be well liked. We want other people to think
Speaker 4: we're a good woman, we're a good wife, and like
Speaker 4: we're nice and we're generous and we're this, and ambitious
Speaker 4: women are often as an ambitious woman, I mean when
Speaker 4: I say things, sometimes people.
Speaker 7: Don't like it.
Speaker 4: You know, like I've been working on the internet a
Speaker 4: long time with a lot of trolls, right, so again,
Speaker 4: you know, I like to kind of push the bounds
Speaker 4: of this stuff, and yeah, you can't get what you
Speaker 4: don't ask for. Should they offer us the same?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Should they offer us more than men because we're like
Speaker 4: way better at multitasking and way better any stuff done. Yes,
Speaker 4: But people aren't asking us and they're not giving it,
Speaker 4: so like we have to push for it. And every
Speaker 4: time I've sent off like big proposals and stuff like,
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, there's no way they're going to see
Speaker 4: to that. Or I can't believe I ask for that much.
Speaker 4: I ask for that much. You should not feel good.
Speaker 4: It should feel bad. So we're so focused on feeling
Speaker 4: comfortable all the time and avoiding all conflict that we
Speaker 4: just stay in the safe zone. You got to push
Speaker 4: in order to make more.
Speaker 1: I love what you said, like you miss one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of the shots you don't take. If you don't ask,
Speaker 1: you one hundred percent will not get it.
Speaker 4: And you have to have an abundant enough mindset to
Speaker 4: be okay if you don't.
Speaker 3: I think this message is so much for the person
Speaker 3: the mom who wants to stay in a career, wants
Speaker 3: to have an extra expression of personhood, keep some semblance
Speaker 3: of self. There are certainly moms out there who say,
Speaker 3: but I don't want to. I am so pleased to
Speaker 3: get out of the work that I was doing that
Speaker 3: was a burnout rate. And my husband can work or
Speaker 3: my partner can work, and that's great. But I even
Speaker 3: think for those moms and parents, I think that this
Speaker 3: is even a challenging conversation to say, but is there
Speaker 3: anything that you want to keep your feet in some
Speaker 3: type of expression of self and yeah, paid or unpaid,
Speaker 3: or maybe it moves to paid. I mean, you're describing
Speaker 3: kat freelance writing while you were still holding down other
Speaker 3: types of work. And so I think just expanding our
Speaker 3: mindset to say, if there's a part of you that
Speaker 3: says I do want more, This doesn't feel like everything
Speaker 3: that I envisioned my life to be with kids, then yes,
Speaker 3: go for it, get at it. If you are pleased
Speaker 3: with where your life is and you're staying at home, fantastic. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I think just permission and freedom that these things
Speaker 3: are available to you.
Speaker 4: And don't think that your kids can't be a part
Speaker 4: of it. Like a lot of my two closest friends
Speaker 4: here are both stay at home moms. One has a
Speaker 4: PhD in physics and one has a degree in math,
Speaker 4: and they're both like so happy being stay at home moms.
Speaker 4: My kids love going to their houses because they have
Speaker 4: like all the things and all the craft and I
Speaker 4: do all the special things. They come to me and
Speaker 4: I'm like, old your laundry, let's go. They love going
Speaker 4: over there because they're like so great at all the stuff, right,
Speaker 4: But you know they get joy out of doing science experiments.
Speaker 4: Like again, my friend, you know she's like cancer research
Speaker 4: and all this stuff. Well, very happy being a stay
Speaker 4: at home mom. But she's like with my kids like
Speaker 4: in a creek showing them craw dads. So happy. Again.
Speaker 4: These are her passions like flowing through and her making
Speaker 4: like basically like little teaching plans for the kids, not
Speaker 4: getting paid for it. But your passions can include your
Speaker 4: kids too. It's about like allowing yourself to pursue the
Speaker 4: things that you like and finding a way to incorporate
Speaker 4: it in your life. So there's just some variety to
Speaker 4: the day, you know, well, sad like, oh that was annose,
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, I made some variety.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, speaking of variety, I know exactly
Speaker 1: how we can add some variety to this show.
Speaker 7: Okay, that's right.
Speaker 8: It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 8: Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 8: Maybe you paid off your mortgage. Maybe your car died
Speaker 8: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 8: Dust bills, butffalo bills.
Speaker 7: Bill Clinton.
Speaker 2: This is the bill of the week.
Speaker 1: So every every week we ask our listener or our
Speaker 1: guests to share with us their bill of the week.
Speaker 5: Do you have one for us?
Speaker 4: I do. I wouldn't have had one yesterday, but I
Speaker 4: have one today. As I shared earlier, we were recording
Speaker 4: this on my birthday, and so I want to share
Speaker 4: that my birthday gift this morning from my twins they
Speaker 4: each I'll show you on our video, they each gave
Speaker 4: me a one dollar bill for my.
Speaker 6: Birth Oh my gosh, it is been a lot bag
Speaker 6: wrapped wrapped in a huge box that they designed with wrapping.
Speaker 4: Paper that they colored all over and I found it hilarious.
Speaker 4: I also got a sparkly rock, but that doesn't fit
Speaker 4: with this the show. I thought it was hilarious. I
Speaker 4: mean to me, that was that was a big deal.
Speaker 4: You know. They really enjoyed their dollars and I got
Speaker 4: one from each of them, and that they decided together.
Speaker 4: So I have two bills today, two bills richer.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean wise, Yeah, that's in the top ten bills.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 3: It sounds like your kids know you well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, money, You've trained them.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think I overdo it a bit, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean we talk about what we love, and I
Speaker 1: love money exactly we do money. I hope to get
Speaker 1: something like that from Kaiwan day.
Speaker 4: You will, you totally will. Yeah. Actually, like in the
Speaker 4: beginning at the school year, their teacher asked them to
Speaker 4: bring three things that they love to like to help kids,
Speaker 4: you know, the other kids learn about them. And my
Speaker 4: son put a bunch of dollars in its bag and
Speaker 4: he's like, I love money. I love legos, I love money.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 4: I was like, what your first day of first grade?
Speaker 4: Maybe we should like hit it so hard, you know,
Speaker 4: hit everyone with it, like let's let's out of tennis
Speaker 4: ball instead.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I appreciate it, but I don't want
Speaker 4: your I don't want your teacher will thing. But it's good.
Speaker 4: Like I said, sometimes maybe I overdo it.
Speaker 1: Someone someone in a in an internet comment was like,
Speaker 1: you should say you love the freedom of money. It's
Speaker 1: something that it brings, not that you love money. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm sorry, I love money. Like I'm
Speaker 1: a personal finance writer. I it would be weird if
Speaker 1: I didn't love money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hat gonna hate.
Speaker 3: I love legos and I love money. Out of the
Speaker 3: mouth of babes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're funny. Like I said, it's hilarious, amazing.
Speaker 3: Well, if you are listening and you want to submit
Speaker 3: your bill of the week, whether it's your twins bringing
Speaker 3: you dollar bills on your birthday or literally anything else,
Speaker 3: because that's quite remarkable and unique, does it. Frugal Friends
Speaker 3: podcast dot com slash Bill, leave us your bill.
Speaker 5: And now it's time for the round.
Speaker 4: Addition, some of those are just amazing.
Speaker 1: On the shank you, I really think that that's why
Speaker 1: we are a top one hundred investing podcast.
Speaker 5: Clearly it's the strength of sound effects.
Speaker 1: So today's Lightning Round is a little different because we're
Speaker 1: on the topics of moms and Jill is not a mom,
Speaker 1: but you have so much wisdom to share with moms,
Speaker 1: I know, and you talk to moms all the time.
Speaker 1: Kat and I will be sharing a little bit of
Speaker 1: some postpartum or guilt induced thoughts that we have experienced,
Speaker 1: maybe financially, maybe not. I think both of they are
Speaker 1: vaguely financially related, and then Jill will be giving us
Speaker 1: each a response in how she would respond to somebody
Speaker 1: with the same thoughts.
Speaker 3: Because I'm not counseling you.
Speaker 1: No Lightning round, this is the Lightning Round. But I
Speaker 1: think when I was reading your book Hat and you
Speaker 1: mentioned about like postpartum depression OCD, I'm like, it was
Speaker 1: not until I became a mom that I realized how
Speaker 1: common it was. Like nobody talks about it when you're
Speaker 1: not a mom, and it's not until you've already gone
Speaker 1: through it and you're out of it that you realize,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I went through that, and so I
Speaker 1: really my goal is to normalize this so much that
Speaker 1: we can almost laugh about it, like you're not crazy,
Speaker 1: like you're not unstable or in ad quit anyway. This
Speaker 1: is just like weird hormones. Yeah, so that is the
Speaker 1: purpose of this, not to make fun of ourselves, but
Speaker 1: to normalize. Yes, important, So kat as our guest, give
Speaker 1: us anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I shared in my book, and you know,
Speaker 4: it took me a couple of years to get this
Speaker 4: book deal. And I think one of the reasons, you know,
Speaker 4: in hindsight, was that I needed a couple of years
Speaker 4: of space to tell the story. But yeah, my twins
Speaker 4: were premies. We moved when they were five weeks old,
Speaker 4: which was like right around when a forty week two
Speaker 4: date would have been. So they were tiny, little five
Speaker 4: pound babies. We moved them across the country, my husband
Speaker 4: started his third year at medical school. It was basically
Speaker 4: like all of the all of the things, like the
Speaker 4: perfect storm of things. And I've never been a mom before,
Speaker 4: so I was having just horrific like unwanted thoughts, like
Speaker 4: terrifying thoughts about things happening to them, or like I'd
Speaker 4: be bathing them and my brain would be like just
Speaker 4: walk away, just walk out of the bathroom and just
Speaker 4: like see what happens. And I'd be like actively fighting
Speaker 4: against it. So it wasn't like what I imagine mother to be.
Speaker 4: I wasn't like looking at, oh, my kids are cute
Speaker 4: splashing in the tub, or I was battling all of
Speaker 4: these thoughts and fighting against them, like I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4: I'm not walking out this room, but you feel so crazy.
Speaker 4: And I kept it all to myself, like because I thought, well,
Speaker 4: everybody stays having a kid is hard. I have two
Speaker 4: of them. I'm also by myself. My husband's working. I
Speaker 4: just became self employed. I guess this is just what
Speaker 4: everyone talks about, like, oh, sleep all the baby sleeps,
Speaker 4: because it's really hard. I thought this was like how
Speaker 4: it was supposed to be. But I what I described
Speaker 4: in the book is the first time my husband like
Speaker 4: watch the kids. Like I felt like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 4: to go right, I'm going to get my work back
Speaker 4: in order. I had taken like a six week self
Speaker 4: imposed maternity leave. I'm like writing at a coffee shop
Speaker 4: and I start getting these all these unwonted thoughts, which
Speaker 4: now I know is like postpartum OCD, which you have
Speaker 4: no control over the things that just jump in your head.
Speaker 4: And so I'm like calling my husband and I'm crying
Speaker 4: in the Starbucks, like crying, and I'm like, I just
Speaker 4: got this horrible image of something happening to the kids,
Speaker 4: and he's like they're just bouncing and their bouncers, like
Speaker 4: they're fine. And then he starts to asking me questions
Speaker 4: like well, how long have you been thinking about this,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, since they were born. I just
Speaker 4: it all just kind of like it just pours out.
Speaker 4: And he was immediately like, you know, cafany need some help,
Speaker 4: you know, and I'm going to find someone for you.
Speaker 4: And he did. He he did a bunch of like
Speaker 4: research and found like the right person for me, and
Speaker 4: you know, got officially diagnosed with you know, PPD and
Speaker 4: post part of OCD and started talking to a therapist
Speaker 4: and all of these things, and it really helped at
Speaker 4: like No. B twelve in my system, Like I finally
Speaker 4: had like a whole like physical like the whole thing.
Speaker 4: And but I wish I would have done it sooner,
Speaker 4: you know, and you know Luckily my husband is a
Speaker 4: physician and you know, could immediately kind of jump in
Speaker 4: there recognize things because no who knows it. You know,
Speaker 4: maybe other dads would be like, wow, it sounds like
Speaker 4: you need some rest.
Speaker 1: Or you need this, and.
Speaker 4: He was like, no, this is more we need to
Speaker 4: get you some help. And so yeah, I'm very grateful
Speaker 4: to him for that. He's really like kind and he
Speaker 4: listened to me like as if I was any one
Speaker 4: of his patients, and he took care of me, and
Speaker 4: I'm really glad that he did.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 3: Kat, thank you so much for your courage in saying this.
Speaker 3: I know that you are not alone, and there's so
Speaker 3: many people who are probably like, oh my goodness, me too,
Speaker 3: and there's words for this, and and yet it takes
Speaker 3: somebody brave enough to be able to say it that, Hey,
Speaker 3: this is actually what's happening. This is some of the
Speaker 3: reality where you've got other people feeling like they're in silos, isolated,
Speaker 3: thinking I'm the only one. I must be crazy. And
Speaker 3: that's what happens when we're isolated, is we think that's
Speaker 3: just our experience and no one else feels this way.
Speaker 3: But thank you for saying it. Thank you for writing
Speaker 3: about it, and I think some might be listening, like
Speaker 3: why is this on a financial personal finance podcast. Well,
Speaker 3: because we're whole people, and this comes into the equation
Speaker 3: of parenthood, motherhood, working, staying at home, dealing with financial decisions,
Speaker 3: Like all of these things intersect and converge and affect
Speaker 3: one another, and if one area is not aimed at
Speaker 3: well being, then it's going to affect all other areas.
Speaker 3: And so to be able to create space to say, listen,
Speaker 3: you're not crazy, there's nothing wrong with you. There's a
Speaker 3: reason that this is happening. But we don't want to
Speaker 3: set up camp there. We don't want to forever live
Speaker 3: out of this place. And so I'm so thrilled to
Speaker 3: hear that your husband actually had his sights on let's
Speaker 3: bring help into place. For some this might be a
Speaker 3: you're fine, just get over it. It's like not the message
Speaker 3: that we want to be spreading necessarily, and sometimes that's
Speaker 3: what we speak to ourselves. But I think so much
Speaker 3: of what you were saying is reaching out for help.
Speaker 3: Being able to say, listen, here's some of the dark
Speaker 3: thoughts that are happening. Just getting it out of our
Speaker 3: heads can help to take like the mystery and the
Speaker 3: legs out from under it, and it creates this space
Speaker 3: to then be able to respond to it. So anyhow,
Speaker 3: if I can pull anything out of what you've said
Speaker 3: to encourage other people, it certainly well, you're not crazy
Speaker 3: and this happened for a reason, and say it, speak
Speaker 3: it out to a trusted person. There is no shame
Speaker 3: in getting some of that help like you described, so
Speaker 3: well done. Thank you glad that you got the help
Speaker 3: that you needed in that situation.
Speaker 1: Than give me too.
Speaker 4: And you know, every chapter my book starts with a
Speaker 4: personal story that tied a money lesson, and I shared
Speaker 4: that story in a chapter where I talked about the
Speaker 4: importance of vulnerability. And you know, mental health is just
Speaker 4: as taboo of a topic as money is, so in
Speaker 4: that chapter I talked a lot about sharing your money,
Speaker 4: like if you're having money trouble and even being vulnerable
Speaker 4: and sharing your your money goals, your money wins. And
Speaker 4: the hard part about that is, like people might not
Speaker 4: have the reactions that you want and both the mental
Speaker 4: health thing or the money thing, and you might lose
Speaker 4: some people along the way who like can't handle things
Speaker 4: or have to set up boundaries. But that's kind of
Speaker 4: like why I shared that in a money book to
Speaker 4: kind of talk about the importance of vulnerability.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm so glad you did.
Speaker 1: Like when you were telling your story, I heard a
Speaker 1: lot of my story in it. Like when I had
Speaker 1: my son, I had no idea. I had this idea
Speaker 1: in my head of what it was should be like,
Speaker 1: but I had no idea like what it was going
Speaker 1: to be like in reality. Like I knew it was
Speaker 1: going to be hard, because people seem.
Speaker 5: Warns are hard. But I thought postpartum.
Speaker 1: Depression was just like feeling thoughts of like harming yourself
Speaker 1: or someone.
Speaker 5: Else or something.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that would that would be depression,
Speaker 1: but just thoughts of harming yourself, which I did not have.
Speaker 1: So I just thought that I was being I was
Speaker 1: tired or overwhelmed. And it wasn't until like looking back
Speaker 1: and having like some space between me and that season
Speaker 1: that I realized, like I had post part of anxiety,
Speaker 1: and I like never got help for it because we
Speaker 1: didn't My husband didn't know. I didn't know, like nobody
Speaker 1: around us had experienced it, or at least were if
Speaker 1: they had, they hadn't talked about experiencing it, and Facebook
Speaker 1: was not helpful. Like everyone is sharing more on Facebook
Speaker 1: about like their stories and stuff, but I think we
Speaker 1: see more of like the extreme stories, and mine was
Speaker 1: just like very under the radar. I thought I would
Speaker 1: like I have a group, like a accountability group that
Speaker 1: I meet with every week, and I was like four
Speaker 1: weeks after Kai was born, I was like, I have
Speaker 1: to write a book because having kids and having more
Speaker 1: kids only gets harder, and so like, I have to
Speaker 1: write a book and self publish it now because it's
Speaker 1: just going to get harder and I need to be
Speaker 1: doing so much in my business because I took time
Speaker 1: off and all this and there, and all these kids
Speaker 1: or all these my friends with like older kids are like, no,
Speaker 1: it doesn't get harder, It gets easier when they get older.
Speaker 1: And I like just couldn't hear anybody like because I
Speaker 1: had all these thoughts in my head and so like,
Speaker 1: now that it's like calmed down, I really wish that
Speaker 1: I had just had people to be vulnerable with, because
Speaker 1: I can see how it's so easy to make financial
Speaker 1: decisions in those first six months that you could really
Speaker 1: regret later on, and it could be due to un diagnosed,
Speaker 1: you know, something postpartum, and so thankfully my mistake was
Speaker 1: just trying to work too hard. But yeah, man, I
Speaker 1: just wish it was talked about more.
Speaker 3: I think the thing that stands out to me in
Speaker 3: both of your stories is just the isolation piece, like
Speaker 3: the loneliness that can come especially in those initial stages
Speaker 3: of motherhood and thinking you have to do it alone,
Speaker 3: which I think is such a societal piece, and having
Speaker 3: those around you in your circle who aren't asking those questions.
Speaker 3: I think that's what's standing out to me the most.
Speaker 3: Is even like Jen, like you do have people, but
Speaker 3: some of it is like your own permission to say
Speaker 3: these things, or your own kindness towards yourself, and so
Speaker 3: I think having people beforehand, kind of having your sights
Speaker 3: on this, and then go throughout motherhood having people in
Speaker 3: your corner, trusted individuals. It might only be like one
Speaker 3: or two, maybe three if you're super lucky, but yeah,
Speaker 3: having a close community, like you said, Jen, that you
Speaker 3: can be vulnerable with, who you can invite into that place.
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the key components and protective
Speaker 3: factors of how you get through this because sometimes, like
Speaker 3: you said, you don't even know exactly what's going on
Speaker 3: inside of you. You just know I feel a little off,
Speaker 3: but I don't even know how to describe it. So yeah,
Speaker 3: surrounding yourself with trusted people is such a huge component.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Kat, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 1: and sharing thoughts from your new book. Where can people
Speaker 1: get more from you?
Speaker 4: Sure? Well, my book Mom's Got Money is available anywhere
Speaker 4: books are sold, and you can even request it from
Speaker 4: your local library if you'd like. And my website is
Speaker 4: Katherineolfor dot com. There's a free like Mom's Got Money
Speaker 4: starter pack they can download on my website which has
Speaker 4: some of the charts from the books and just some
Speaker 4: ways to get start if people are really at ground zero.
Speaker 4: I'm always on the ground. That's my preferred ID social
Speaker 4: media and I'm Katherine offered on the ground.
Speaker 1: Awesome, and we'll have links to all those in our
Speaker 1: show notes. Thanks again for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thank you Jenna, thanks for sharing your story too, and
Speaker 4: Joe for offering such kind advice. I love your voice
Speaker 4: is like so soothing and like can we try to
Speaker 4: get You're so calm and I really appreciate you guys
Speaker 4: having me on.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for your time. Kat Ooh, that
Speaker 3: was a good The end of the episode and the
Speaker 3: vulnerability present is beautiful. But I think also just the
Speaker 3: ability to encourage one another talk openly within safety, to
Speaker 3: be heard and encouraged, I think it's a beautiful thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so glad for that.
Speaker 1: When having my second, I actually thought about this conversation
Speaker 1: several times, and I was more intentional to take steps
Speaker 1: to see if I could kind of curb the experience nutritionally.
Speaker 5: I know I couldn't.
Speaker 1: You know. Sleep is whatever you're going to get, what
Speaker 1: you want, you're going to get. But movement and nutrition,
Speaker 1: I really focused on that stuff and it was a
Speaker 1: lot better. It was combined with caring less. I think
Speaker 1: I think I cared too much with my first.
Speaker 5: I think all new moms do.
Speaker 1: But then after you keep one alive, you're like, ah,
Speaker 1: I could do this.
Speaker 5: I don't have to be perfect.
Speaker 1: So that combined with I think maybe being more intentional
Speaker 1: with how it was fueling myself, I think made a
Speaker 1: big difference. But yeah, I definitely didn't expect so much
Speaker 1: from myself after this one. I still got a book
Speaker 1: deal right after, so I'm still writing a book after
Speaker 1: having a baby, which is something I said I'd never
Speaker 1: do again, but here I am.
Speaker 3: Every time you say never, it ends up being always.
Speaker 3: So you just stay away from that word or keep
Speaker 3: showing it, use it to your favor. That's what I
Speaker 3: want to do.
Speaker 1: I'm giving up on it.
Speaker 3: We will never have a TV show.
Speaker 5: I can't. I'm not gonna touch that one.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. We love, love, love
Speaker 1: reading your kind reviews, and we especially love this one
Speaker 1: from Nancy Gay. It's titled Finally. They say, I'm so
Speaker 1: happy I found a frugal podcast that is more than
Speaker 1: make coffee at home or bring your lunch to work.
Speaker 1: So many things they suggest I have been doing for years,
Speaker 1: which totally endears them to me. But I have learned
Speaker 1: a lot from them as well. Their chemistry is great
Speaker 1: and they're really funny. I'll listen on my way to work.
Speaker 1: Keep the frugal tips, we will, Nancy.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Yeah, so glad to have you. So glad
Speaker 3: that clearly our minds think like you've been doing a
Speaker 3: lot of this on your frugal journey, and we're just
Speaker 3: happy to collect new friends along the way. If you
Speaker 3: are listening and you're a new friend or an old friend,
Speaker 3: and you want to leave us some kind words to
Speaker 3: help us find other new friends. Know that this is
Speaker 3: maybe for them, and maybe some people can read those
Speaker 3: reviews and no, it's not for them. Whatever it is,
Speaker 3: leave your kind words in a review. We're looking forward
Speaker 3: to reading them.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 5: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.
Speaker 3: Got some olive bread in the fridge waiting for me
Speaker 3: for lunch.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that olive bread is so good.
Speaker 3: Oh so good with bread or I'm sorry with butter
Speaker 3: or oil, bread with bread, bread with bread. I'll do
Speaker 3: bread on bread.
Speaker 7: Bread?
Speaker 3: Who was I with?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 3: Jack asked the other day. Jack's my four year old nephew.
Speaker 3: He asked for a hamburger without the meat. And we're like,
Speaker 3: so bread. He's like, yeah, but like bread on bread,
Speaker 3: no meat, Like okay, Like you just want the top
Speaker 3: piece of bread in the bottom piece of bread.
Speaker 7: That's it.
Speaker 1: I have served bread for dinner. Yes, for you, It
Speaker 1: was a joke. For me, it has been my life.
Speaker 3: It's not totally. It's freedom and permission giving that sometimes
Speaker 3: we don't have the protein the veggie the other side,
Speaker 3: the dessert. Sometimes it's just bread and that's fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I try to make sure there's a protein, fat,
Speaker 1: and carb on the plate at least when I get
Speaker 1: it to him. It doesn't always get all three, don't
Speaker 1: always get consumed, but I try to make sure that
Speaker 1: they're all there. But sometimes it's just bread. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just bread and that's okay. You know there's no protein
Speaker 1: or fat spread.
Speaker 3: I mean, if it's bread with butter, there's some fat,
Speaker 3: or I'll do that.
Speaker 1: See, I will, like ninety percent of the time, I'll
Speaker 1: slap some peanut butter on it because that's protein and fat.
Speaker 1: But sometimes I just he doesn't want it or I
Speaker 1: don't have the energy, and we won't. We'll pick our battles.
Speaker 1: We won't fight it.
Speaker 3: There's some moms spiration for you there.
Speaker 1: You go pick your battles.