WEBVTT - Should we have a fat tax? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.520 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff You Should Know? 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:16.360 From House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.880 the podcast. This is Josh Clark, Charles W. Chuck Bryant 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.480 is taking a refreshing sip off of a low Craw 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:28.440 brand carbonated soda and um. Since he's doing that wearing 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.000 a plaid short sleep t shirt shirt shirt. Uh, and 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.280 I'm wearing jeans. That means that this is stuff you 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.000 should know. That's right. Yeah, that's the formula, the secret formula. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.159 Jeans on you, plaid shirt on me, nothing from the 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:49.680 waist down on you. That's socks. Of course, it makes 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.640 the whole thing so much more unsettling. I think. Still 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.400 there's nothing. There's not much funnier than socks and shoes 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.680 on with no pants. Yeah, it's just a homerson. It's 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.160 always funny. He's nailed it, especially with his pointy little 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.600 brown shoes. The big road Ton Pubic Mountain. Then he 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:15.040 has he's awesome. Umuck, it's been a long time, hasn't it. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.040 We we've been out of the office for two weeks. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.160 Just so people know we're getting back into things, and 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:23.440 it's refreshing to do our to do something that we're 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.679 good at. Ye, yeah, it is some saying. It gives 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.160 me a sense of control. Um, I feel like we're 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.720 good at this, Chuck. We know what we're doing, except 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.720 for maybe the Union's one man. No. I mean it 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:38.920 was good. All the information was there, but like I 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.640 I've it sounded like I've had a transorbital lobotomy, like 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:48.800 just moments before we started, did you. We'll see, Um, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.240 this one is going to be a good one. My friend, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:57.200 remember the tipping episode. It's gonna make that look like poop. Um, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.240 we're talking today, Chuck. As I know you know about 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:07.360 the possibility of a fat tax. That's right, and it's well, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.560 well we'll get to exactly what it is in a second, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:15.160 but um, let's talk about why you would even consider 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.519 taxing fat. It seems like, Chuck, there is an obesity 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.720 epidemic in the United States, and not just the United States, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:25.119 but in the western world. We're not the only fatties, 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.520 although we are typically the fattiest of the fatties. Uh yeah, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.040 oh yeah, well we're the best in everything by percentage. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.320 I think there are more obest people in the States 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.880 than um elsewhere. Yes, but it is still a problem. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.160 It's very prevalent everywhere. When you mean, I went to Japan, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.760 she was, she was like, everyone in Japan is so thin. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:49.359 Everyone is very thin, They're very small pieces. We went 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.320 and I was like, you sure when the last time 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.640 you were here? Um, So, yeah, it's it's everywhere. But 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.600 they would probably say, like, we're just fat now because 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.680 we're eating American foods. That is what they said, because 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.760 you know what, they're probably right, dude, they're McDonald's makes 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:08.600 our McDonald's look again like poop. Like they have the 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:13.280 this thing called the Mega muffin, and it's a an 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:18.640 egg McMuffin with sausage and like extra egg and it's 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.440 huge and it's probably the most delicious thing I've ever 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.959 eaten in my life. I'll eat a sausage McMuffin with 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.840 egg right now. And then, well, you can get an 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.560 egg McMuffin with sausage here in the States if you 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.440 know what to ask for. But it costs you like 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.840 six bucks, but it's worth it, that's true. But anyway, yes, um, 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:38.600 the double egg interests me though. Yeah, No, it is true, 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:43.040 Like it's six bucks easy. Yeah. Um, okay, So in 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.800 the United States, let's throw out some statistics because this 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.240 is where we live. And again, the United States is 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.160 the greatest country in the world when it comes to 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:55.080 obese people producing the obese um an. Obesity costs the 0:03:55.160 --> 0:04:00.280 US an estimated hundred and fifty billion dollars a year 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:06.960 UH in healthcare costs. That's a significant amount of meatballs. Yeah, 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:14.400 of all medical costs of Medicare, costs are oh during 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.480 the last year of life or due to obesity. This 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:22.039 AT's significant. Yeah. I thought that was a weird statistic though, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.480 wasn't it. Yeah, I thought it was a lot um. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.360 That guy, that polster who you're quoting, he was definitely biased. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.320 It seemed like which I know, but I'm saying, like 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.120 even still, he was like, here's this poll that we 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.440 just conducted, and here's how I feel about it, Mattie. Um, 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.320 so we've got a lot of money being put into 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:47.839 treating UH diseases that rise from UM obesity. A preventable disease. Well, yeah, 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.880 obesity is considered a chronic disease, which is something that 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:57.479 can be treated and prevented through behavior modification like shock therapy, 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:03.039 which costs far less than treating heart disease. That's point one. Um, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.120 let's see, the costs are expected to rise. And um, 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.679 however you feel about Obamacare, take that off the table, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.279 put it on the table, take it off the table 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.800 either way. Um, if we don't change the amount of 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:22.839 money we're putting into care for um, obesity related diseases, 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.920 those costs are gonna go up just because the sheer 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.359 number of obese people are expected to rise. There's something 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.960 like sevent of Americans are either overweight or obese. Yeah, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.320 it is a lot, and it's I think more than 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.040 a third of Americans are obese, and obese is a 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:47.600 body mass index of thirty thirty ms per square meter, right, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:49.760 And then they're kind of refining that so it's not 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.080 just weight anymore. It's the amount of fat you have 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.360 on your body. And apparently there's a move toward refining 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.400 that even further, which is how much fat do you 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.760 have on your upper body? Which is the really unhealthy 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.440 stuff out of post? Right, I know I can't gain 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.600 a pound below my waist. I think I'm like my dad. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.880 I carried all between my my chin and my waistline 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.000 is there? Right? Oh? Yeah, I got skinny little legs. 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.520 I don't get like the big butt that some guys get. 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.120 You know, I've noticed since I've been running, my butt 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.280 has gone up and out a little bit, and I 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.040 guess that's what's supposed to be, but I don't like it. Man, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.680 I'm self conscious about my bottom now. Um okay, so 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.240 the uh the percentage of obast people in the US, 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:37.000 chuck UM is supposed to go from about a third 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:46.479 right at now to forty. That's just not overweight, that's obesie. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.360 That's creeping up to half the country. That's a lot. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.040 It's nice to have something to shoot for. So there's 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.039 a lot of UM as a nation. There's a lot 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.720 of reasons that people would start talking king about instituting 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.200 a fat tax. And when we're talking about the fat text, 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.160 we're talking about this concept that was first UM introduced 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.160 by a Yale psychologist named Kelly D. Brown. Oh yeah, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.200 the twinkie tax. I hate. Did they throw twinkie on 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.160 any everything? I always do anytime something has to do 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.880 with junk food, they throw twink cancer like the twinkie defense. 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.600 The word twinkie was never uttered during UM the trial. Yeah, 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.800 during the trial, it was all junk food. That was 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.560 a Harvey Milk thing, right, Yeah, it was uh yeah, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.080 the Dan White trial it was no and he never 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.400 mentioned twinkie, but that was the press. They just put 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:40.760 Twinkie on anything they can't Uh yeah, he's he first 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.280 coined it. And this was back in the New York Times, 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.760 so it's not the newest idea to be floated. Um. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.280 And there there's some different ways that people have suggested 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.680 that we go about this. He has a couple of proposals. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:59.240 One is tax saying seven on unhealthy foods and then 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.360 use that venue to subsidize healthy foods to make it cheaper, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.520 to make that cheaper less expensive. And the idea behind 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.720 that is what that people just buy unhealthy food because 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.920 it's cheaper because it traditionally is is that I wonder 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.920 if we would find out if that's the case. I 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.000 don't think that's the case. I don't know. I mean, 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.240 I think people buy those foods because they want to 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.640 buy that junk and eat it. I guess it depends 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.600 on what you're talking about though, Like if it's a 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.680 TV dinner, you're looking for dinner and that's super cheap, right, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.720 So if you if they're healthier alternatives that are cheaper 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.560 than that, then maybe they would go with a healthier alternative. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.160 But when you want an oreo, you want an oreo. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.800 But I bet you could get one of them. The 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:44.680 little Healthy Choice meals for about the same as a 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.880 TV dinner. It was about the same price. I wonder. 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.320 I wonder though, also if proportion has to do with 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.400 it too. I think proportion control is a huge portion. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:58.120 Portion proportion. Well, when you're comparing a healthy Choice to 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.719 a hungry man, it's proportion. But uh, and the other 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.600 thing is too though. I mean the Healthy Choice meals 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.160 and those those diet meals White Watchers meals. They are 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.719 lower in um, I guess, like fats and calories and 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.480 stuff like that, it's still be hard to argue that 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.160 they're healthy. Any kind of like package processed food like 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.960 that is inherently it's not like super healthy. I guess 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:22.199 you're right, but it's probably better than the hungry man. Well, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.360 it's like the whole thing with um high freak toast 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:30.000 corn syrup like sugar. Refined sugar is a healthy comparison 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.439 to it, you know, like um, that whole throwback thing 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.080 that PEPSI did, right, Like that was supposed to be 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.760 better for you, but they used just to refined sugar 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.760 instead of high fruit toast corn syrup. So I wonder 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.240 if what you're saying then is that's along the same lines. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:43.960 I guess, well, yeah, and that presents one of the 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:45.640 problems that we'll get to is how do you if 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.640 you're gonna do something like this, where do you draw 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.520 the line and how do you attack this? Is it 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.400 just sweets and fatty foods? Or you know, a pint 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.600 of Ben and Jerry's ice cream is made with really 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.920 healthy natural ingredients, but it's full of fat and calor 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.360 eas whereas a healthy choice quote unquote is processed and 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.280 loaded with preservatives, but it's lower in calorie, so it's hinky. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.480 You present a sticky conunder and how they're going to 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.880 figure this out if it if it ever goes through um. 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:18.079 So that was the first proposal by Brown l Um 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.000 basically seven percent tax used that the revenue to fund 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.920 or subsidize healthier stuff, right, yeah, and they can actually 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.040 I don't know how they did this, but Oxford University 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.120 actually put a number of value on how many lives 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.560 a year that could save um, and they claim that 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.360 a seventeen point five percent value added tax um could 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.959 save up to thirty lives a year. And I guess 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.120 that's probably just in England. I'm imagining, right, I believe. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.480 So there's like England's all over this as well. It's 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.240 a U S and England. Well, Europe is kind of 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.559 moving towards this. But yeah, the studies that we came 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.120 across seem to be mostly British in origin. They love 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:03.160 their studies every day they do. So that's one one proposal. Um, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.600 what's the second one? Well, the second one was less aggressive. 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:10.880 It was basically just um tax a lesser amount onto 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.840 unhealthy food and then funnel that into public education. And 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.959 brown else said that would probably be easier to get 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:25.559 pushed through legislatively, but it would have less of an effect. Yeah, 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.560 I mean, if you're gonna do this, and I mean 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.280 I don't even know if it's a good idea or not. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:33.239 I'd rather see cheaper healthy food than some stupid campaign, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.680 you know. Yeah, the whole awareness campaign. I have doubts 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.400 about the effectiveness of those things. Well, they have an 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.520 obesity awareness campaign going on, and it's like they're using 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.760 these poor fat kids as models, and it's like, what 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.240 school do you go to? You have to be private 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.679 tutored now because you're literally the poster child for obesity, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.679 you know. Um. So, you were saying that the Brits 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.080 came up with the the the idea of doing a 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.200 seventeen point five value added team point five percent value 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.840 added tacks. Right, value added taxes Basically like every time 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.520 UM raw material comes into the manufacturing plant, there's a 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.439 tax on that. UM. When the manufacturer finishes the final product, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.400 sends it to a exporter, there's a tax on that. 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.080 Exporter gives it to a distributor, there's a tax on that. 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.960 And ultimately all these taxes build up and are passed 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.000 on to the consumer, right um. And then the savings 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.040 aren't passed on that the taxes to the extra payment. Um. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.080 So the these these Brits who studied that found that 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.439 if you if you did that seventeen point five percent 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.760 tax and you just did it on foods with saturated fat, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.440 that it could actually be counterproductive. They modeled it and 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.640 they found that it would drive people to other foods 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:54.120 and uh yeah like uh and and would have even 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.360 more severe health consequences, right, um. And then what's more, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.839 here's a big problem too. Um. It would increase food 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.680 costs by about three two. So here's here's here's where 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.520 we reach a really So if you're a liberal, right, 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.679 and you're like, no, we need to we need to 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.319 look out for people. These people don't understand the the 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.280 the consequences of their eating habits, and their diet habits 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.439 are passing me along to their children. We're all gonna 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.679 die at age fifty. Um, So we need this kind 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.439 of tax. And somebody goes, uh, it's it's regressive, so 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.520 it's unfairly taxing the poor, and every liberal just goes 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.760 forget it, just forget it all, never get behind it. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:34.920 And that's part of the problem because you know, the 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.000 poor tend to spend a larger percentage of their income 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.080 on food, so if you start taxing food, it's going 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:47.240 to unfairly hit the poor harder than anybody else. So 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.720 they found the three point two for that, um for 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.880 that one that's just saturated that and they did too 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.200 other models too. Yeah, the one um where they actually 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.400 assign a score rating to your food. Um. And don't 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:01.719 ask me about the stands for but the ssc G 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.160 three D score. I looked, I couldn't find what it 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.560 stands for super secret. Let's just call it that the 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.520 super secret score. UM. So that basically they're gonna rate 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.040 foods based on UM eight nutrients and a higher score 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.000 is bad if you're if you're a plus eight, then 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.680 you're going to get taxed more. And that would save lives. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.120 I guess is that a year? Yeah? And then UM 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.440 increase four percent, so even higher increase in food costs, right, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.160 but it saves lives rather than having more severe negative 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:39.200 consequences UM. And it's it hits that sweet spot that 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.560 you're looking for the science, right, So, like you could 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.360 run anything conceivably through this algorithm. Doesn't it's blind to 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.320 whether it's lean cuisine or ho hose. It's gonna spit 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.320 out a score, and depending on the score, you get 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.240 taxed or not. That makes a little more sense. It 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:59.680 does still though four percent increase in UM food UH costs, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.680 that's significant, it is UH. And then the third one 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.480 was where basically it was they spread the tax among 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.760 a bunch of different foods, almost half of all foods. 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.920 I don't know, I don't understand. Yeah, I didn't get 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.240 this one, okay, so um, but what we did. What 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.200 they found was that it saves lives, but it increases 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.960 taxes by about four point six percent. So if you're 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.080 an anglophile and you are into studies and you like 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:31.560 choosing multiply um, you would probably go with number two. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:36.360 I think it makes the most sense, and it should 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.800 everyone else. I was just describing ourselves. Um. Actually, in 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.120 Britain they already do this on some things like ice 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.640 cream and potato chips they mentioned in here, UM already 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.120 have a value out of tacks. And in some states, 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:50.920 and no, George is not one of them, they tax 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.800 um small taxes on soft drinks and things like that. See. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.480 I don't know if that's true, because um, I found 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.120 this one. Uh, this one article about Redmond, California, where 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.680 they're talking about adding a one cent per ounce soda 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.400 tax and it says that they would be the first 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.640 city in the country to actually push it through. Yeah, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.680 well maybe it does. Say California and Maine in Maryland 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:20.200 had fat taxes UM approved and then repealed. So yeah, 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.119 first sitting in the nation to Levey attack specifically targeting 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.840 soda and sugar laden beverage is interesting. So, but if 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.800 this goes through, it's coming up pretty soon, I guess 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.200 in November. But if it goes through, there's that one 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.320 problem again where it's a regressive tax because it's a 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:42.440 fixed amount. It's one cent per ounce, and because of that, 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:48.680 the cheaper the value of an ounce of soda, the 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.240 more percentage you're gonna pay in taxes. Right, So let's 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.640 say you pay a dollar for your generic store brand 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:59.080 two Leader, that's sixty six or sixty seven ounces, you're 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.040 gonna pay at a cent parounce, you're gonna pay an 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.840 extra sixty seven cents, which is more costs. Yeah, it's 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.480 almost double what you were paying before. And the people 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.720 who are buying that dollar store brand two Leader are 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.280 probably people who can afford the dollar, right exactly. Now, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.160 if you do a twelve pack or something like that, um, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.040 and it's a hundred and forty four ounces, but a 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.560 twelve packs already like six bucks, that's only an extra 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.600 dollar forty four. That's only like or something like that 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.400 added tax rather than sixties. So that's why they say 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:36.120 regressive taxes are usually unfairly burdening to the poor. Yeah, 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.720 that makes sense. I see Uh, well, I see it 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.919 all the time. Let's just say that you do. I 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.600 used to work in in the convenience store, and so 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.800 I had a a good eye on who was buying 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.359 what and what kind of snacks people ate and stuff 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.960 like that. I was amazed to find when I worked in, um, 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.959 a gas station, that people cho white clay. Excuse me, 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.560 they chew white clay. I don't know what that means. 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.080 You've not seen white clay. Look around next time you're 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.240 in a gas shitch, and especially out in the sticks, 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.360 there'll be a little cell of fame bag with like 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.000 the little paper hanger, you know, like you buy like 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.520 gummy worms or whatever in like that. But um, it's 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.920 a food. It is not a food item. It's clay, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.560 and people chew it. Apparently it's um it's like a 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.159 folk tradition among pregnant women to chew clay. But people 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.679 have like this kind of craving for it as well, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.120 and they sell this in convenient story. I never knew that. Yeah, 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.760 that one always, that's a good one. I'm gonna be 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.719 in the lookout now. Um. So we've talked about all 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.000 the reasons why you should do this, right, Yes, it 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.280 seems like this would have all been pushed through if 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.879 there weren't some sort of opposition to the concept of 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.000 fat taxes like Tony Blair Oh yeah, for instance, in 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:02.080 two thousand four he called that a sign of a 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:08.440 nanny state, and basically that kind of sums it um. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.719 Critics will argue that, you know, this is like the 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:16.840 government once again legislating something in you're a personal decision 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.840 you want to make, which is, you know what if 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.080 I want to eat twinkies and get fat and dive 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.840 a heart attack at forty it's my right because I 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:27.040 love those twinkies. It makes a really good case like 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.440 who who is the government to tell you you shouldn't write? Um. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.159 There is a really good argument on the other side 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.679 that often comes from the same side, though, which is, 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.080 m if we as a society have to pay for 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.800 your health care, then yeah, you we do have a 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.800 stake in telling you, you know, you can't eat that twinkie, 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.800 And yeah, we agree. We can't tell you not to 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.119 eat that twinkie, but we can make you think twice 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.360 about it by raising the price of it. Well, and 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.119 they're in brings up the third model, which is not 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.120 to tax food but too um make people pay more 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.080 for something like insurance if they're obese. The the text 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.040 the person and not the item. Yeah, which is probably 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:24.200 the more diabolical model of the of the others. Uh yeah, 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.520 but it's also like I get that, but it's also 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.840 at least it singles out the the problem. Like although 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.720 some people might say the problem is the existence of 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.000 the twinkie, but they don't. But but the critics will 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.080 say no. But you know what, if you're super healthy 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.840 and you like to indulge the twinkie every now and then, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.320 there is nothing wrong with the existence of twinkies. Check 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.680 that was hypothetical, right, you know what I'm saying. But 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.919 like you can't like if you love you this tax 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.200 on junk food and I'm a marathon runner that once 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.639 a week, I love my my Reese's cup. Why should 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.560 I have to pay more money on that because a 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.119 larger person eats some five times a day. See. I 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.920 disagree with that though, because think about it, man, Like, 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.240 like who's really paying for that that extra tax? Todd 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.360 the larger person who eats them any times a day, 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:12.600 or you who eats them once a week. It's like, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.919 buck up and pay the extra forty cents and shut up. 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.000 We're trying to deal with something over here. Go run 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.879 your marathon. That that's what I have to say to 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.639 that person. Um, as far as it goes within the 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:30.359 obese person, who when you are faced with that idea 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:35.720 of having to pay more for that Reese's, there's no 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.400 sweet spot. As bad as economists want to be able 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.760 to say, this is the point where everyone will stop 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.200 paying for Reese's and stop eating them. It's the same 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:49.720 with gas. No one has any idea. You can take 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.320 the average of all this, but it's really different for everybody. 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.800 So that's one of the big challenges is how much 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:00.800 do you raise? UM. So, if you take a way 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.960 the the idea that that's going to change behavior, it 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.800 might not. It might just mean that people are going 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.880 to have to shell out more money, which sucks. Um. Well, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.119 what happened with smoking? Did people? Well, that is less 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.760 when they started taxing the cred out of that did 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.960 a really good example of how you can successfully tax 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:24.080 unhealthy stuff um and change people's behavior. So that it 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.879 did work. But they think about what a pack of 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:32.040 cigarettes cost today compared to ten years ago. It's like 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.960 I think in in say New York, it's probably about 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:39.840 twelve times more than before. Um, I know, like almost 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:45.719 overnight after the tobacco settlement was settled, tobacco prices doubled 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:50.960 just from the added tax. But uh, tobacco use has 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.280 gone down, like went down like from like two seven 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.760 due to the price, or they believe it's due to 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:01.760 the price, probably also due to public education, but really 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.080 they were educating the public before than anyway. So yes, 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:06.920 they think that it has to do with the the 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:11.040 fact that the tobacco Settlement led to just ridiculously higher 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.440 taxes and still continues to. So you can say that 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.040 there's a model that Okay, if you just keep adding 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.280 more and more and more money in the form of 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:25.520 attacks to this item, eventually everybody's going to fall off, right, 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.320 you will reach that point where no one will pay 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.160 that any longer. What we were talking about, where where 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:36.760 you're actually taxing the consumer. That's different. That's saying I'm 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:41.960