WEBVTT - Generous Orthodoxy 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:21.956 Pushkin. I grew up in southwestern Ontario, farming country, in 0:00:21.996 --> 0:00:25.476 a place called Waterloo County. Waterloo County is home to 0:00:25.516 --> 0:00:27.996 one of the largest populations of Mennonites in the world. 0:00:28.596 --> 0:00:31.036 I grew up among Mennonites, went to school with them. 0:00:31.556 --> 0:00:35.676 They're Anabaptists, which is one of the oldest Protestant denominations. 0:00:36.076 --> 0:00:40.196 Mennonites are small in number, industrious, close knit. Came to 0:00:40.236 --> 0:00:43.396 North America after they were persecuted in Russia. The joke 0:00:43.556 --> 0:00:46.876 is they're basically Jews who farm. So I went home 0:00:46.916 --> 0:00:49.596 to see my parents not long ago, and everyone was 0:00:49.636 --> 0:00:52.836 talking about something online called an Open Letter to my 0:00:52.916 --> 0:00:56.716 beloved church. It's a long letter touching on family and 0:00:56.716 --> 0:01:01.196 devotion and faith in scripture. A Mennonite pastor wrote it, actually, 0:01:01.196 --> 0:01:04.396 I should say an ex Mennonite pastor, a man named 0:01:04.476 --> 0:01:07.636 Chester Wanger. I read the letter and I was so 0:01:07.836 --> 0:01:10.316 taken by it that I went to see him, drove 0:01:10.436 --> 0:01:12.996 four and a half hours on one cold January day. 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:17.476 Oh my, just every day three four or five people say, oh, 0:01:17.556 --> 0:01:19.676 we just like your letter. We like your letter, we 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:20.356 like your letter. 0:01:20.716 --> 0:01:22.796 The letter has been read more than two hundred and 0:01:22.836 --> 0:01:26.196 thirty thousand times on Mennonite dot org. To put that 0:01:26.236 --> 0:01:29.076 in perspective, there were only eight hundred thousand mena nits 0:01:29.076 --> 0:01:32.076 in North America. It's been liked and shared all over 0:01:32.116 --> 0:01:36.716 Facebook hashtag Chester Wenger is a thing. I asked Wenger 0:01:36.756 --> 0:01:39.276 if he anticipated any of his words going viral. 0:01:40.356 --> 0:01:43.276 I didn't even know it. Didn't even know what viral meant. 0:01:44.076 --> 0:01:48.716 The letter went virals. What does that mean? It's like 0:01:48.756 --> 0:01:52.916 a virus. It just read. I was shocked. 0:01:56.796 --> 0:02:01.116 My name is Malcolm Gladwell. This is Revisionist History, my 0:02:01.316 --> 0:02:07.916 podcast about things misunderstood and overlooked. This week's episode is 0:02:07.956 --> 0:02:12.316 about Chester Wenger and about an idea called generous orthodoxy. 0:02:17.716 --> 0:02:22.236 That phrase generous orthodoxy comes from a theologian named Hans Fry. 0:02:23.036 --> 0:02:24.036 It's an oxymoron. 0:02:24.116 --> 0:02:24.516 Of course. 0:02:25.196 --> 0:02:28.636 To be orthodox is to be committed to tradition. To 0:02:28.676 --> 0:02:31.476 be generous, as Frida fines, it is to be open 0:02:31.516 --> 0:02:34.476 to change. But Fri I thought the best way to 0:02:34.476 --> 0:02:37.716 live our lives was to find the middle ground. Because 0:02:37.876 --> 0:02:43.956 orthodoxy without generosity leads to blindness, and generosity without orthodoxy 0:02:44.356 --> 0:02:48.076 is shallow and empty. One of the hardest things in 0:02:48.116 --> 0:02:51.276 the world is to find that balance. Not just for 0:02:51.316 --> 0:02:54.596 those pursuing a life of faith, but for anyone interested 0:02:54.796 --> 0:02:58.596 in making their world better. I think Chester Wenger shows 0:02:58.676 --> 0:02:59.156 us the way. 0:03:04.196 --> 0:03:07.236 I wanted to study Bible, and I got the first 0:03:07.276 --> 0:03:09.596 the best of arts, and then I got a Bachelor 0:03:09.636 --> 0:03:13.036 of Theology. I was very interested in getting all the 0:03:13.076 --> 0:03:13.956 training I could. 0:03:14.356 --> 0:03:18.356 Wenger lives in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, another man of night Enclave, 0:03:18.956 --> 0:03:21.516 in a little house just off the turnpike, where he 0:03:21.556 --> 0:03:24.116 and his wife, Sarah Jane brought up their eight children. 0:03:24.996 --> 0:03:29.196 Wenger has a barrel chest, straight back, real handshake, big 0:03:29.236 --> 0:03:31.716 head of white hair. He looks a little like a 0:03:31.756 --> 0:03:36.436 cross between Colonel Sanders and an NFL linebacker. He's ninety 0:03:36.476 --> 0:03:39.236 eight years old. This is the part of the evening 0:03:39.236 --> 0:03:41.916 that I remember the most. The very end of several 0:03:41.916 --> 0:03:44.796 hours in his tiny living room. It nearly brought me 0:03:44.836 --> 0:03:46.476 to tears. 0:03:46.116 --> 0:03:51.196 As I thought I wanted to read from Romans. It's 0:03:51.316 --> 0:03:56.676 very familiar, for I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of 0:03:56.796 --> 0:04:01.476 Christ Jesus. It is the power of God for salvation 0:04:01.676 --> 0:04:06.756 to everyone who has faith. Notice how broad that is. 0:04:09.396 --> 0:04:11.916 Let me start with a few more words about Mennonites, 0:04:12.516 --> 0:04:15.396 because what Wanger did makes no sense unless you understand 0:04:15.396 --> 0:04:19.356 the world that he inhabits. The theologian Palm Rebcker has 0:04:19.396 --> 0:04:23.076 a lovely phrase to describe the Mennonite way. Jesus is 0:04:23.076 --> 0:04:26.316 the center of our faith. Community is the center of 0:04:26.356 --> 0:04:31.436 our lives. Reconciliation is the center of our work. It's 0:04:31.436 --> 0:04:34.356 hard to explain to an outsider how seriously the Mennonites 0:04:34.436 --> 0:04:39.996 take these three things Jesus, community, and reconciliation. They don't 0:04:40.116 --> 0:04:43.676 use the word community, for example, in the metaphorical way 0:04:43.876 --> 0:04:46.196 like most of us. Do you know, I'm a member 0:04:46.236 --> 0:04:50.996 of the journalist community. To Mennonite's community is a much 0:04:51.036 --> 0:04:55.076 more serious thing. Listen to my friend Jim Laptisin, who's 0:04:55.076 --> 0:04:55.996 a Mennonite pastor. 0:04:57.316 --> 0:05:01.316 In my dad's church growing up, it was very strict. 0:05:01.516 --> 0:05:03.556 He told me at one point that if people didn't 0:05:03.556 --> 0:05:05.036 believe you were a given ten percent of your income 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:06.636 to the church, they had the right to audit your books. 0:05:06.676 --> 0:05:10.756 And he said that without any recrimination or any condemnation, 0:05:11.396 --> 0:05:12.956 and even a bit of humor. He was like, and 0:05:12.996 --> 0:05:14.876 so my books got out, and twice by his good 0:05:14.876 --> 0:05:16.196 friend and neighbor up their own. 0:05:16.836 --> 0:05:20.116 How on earth? But did that conversation happen. The treasurer 0:05:20.156 --> 0:05:22.276 came to him and said, we don't think you're giving enough. 0:05:23.196 --> 0:05:26.556 Absolutely, And I have a really high view of the church, 0:05:27.516 --> 0:05:29.796 and you know you speak on behalf of the church. 0:05:29.876 --> 0:05:32.036 And we've all submitted to this, so it's not like 0:05:32.076 --> 0:05:34.716 I'm submitting to something that you haven't. So we're all 0:05:34.756 --> 0:05:36.876 in us together, yeah, and we're all trying to be 0:05:36.876 --> 0:05:38.076 as faithful as we can be. 0:05:38.876 --> 0:05:41.556 That business of auditing each other's books, that's from fifty 0:05:41.636 --> 0:05:44.716 or sixty years ago, a different era. But I think 0:05:44.756 --> 0:05:47.196 it gives you a flavor of what Mennonites mean when 0:05:47.196 --> 0:05:50.796 they say we're all in this together. When I was 0:05:50.796 --> 0:05:53.556 a kid, just after we moved to Canada from England, 0:05:53.876 --> 0:05:55.996 we heard about a barn raising not far from us. 0:05:56.516 --> 0:05:59.396 When a Mennonite farmer's barn burns down, the people from 0:05:59.516 --> 0:06:02.356 church gather as soon as they can bring food and 0:06:02.396 --> 0:06:05.396 building materials and anything else to replace what was lost, 0:06:05.596 --> 0:06:08.316 and they build a new barn. Frame it up one day, 0:06:08.676 --> 0:06:12.916 put it up the next. My parents were Presbyterians, but 0:06:12.916 --> 0:06:16.596 my father found the idea of a barn raising incredibly impressive, 0:06:17.396 --> 0:06:18.276 so he crashed it. 0:06:19.156 --> 0:06:19.596 You have to. 0:06:19.556 --> 0:06:22.476 Understand that these are what were called Old Order Mennonites, 0:06:22.716 --> 0:06:25.716 like the Amish. They drove horses and buggies and lived 0:06:25.676 --> 0:06:29.316 without electricity. My dad was a college professor in a 0:06:29.396 --> 0:06:32.596 rusty Puusia with an impenetrable English accent and a shirt 0:06:32.596 --> 0:06:35.876 and a tie. They'd never seen him or anything like 0:06:35.956 --> 0:06:39.396 him before. They just put him to work, no questions asked. 0:06:39.836 --> 0:06:43.516 We're all in this together. Eventually my parents would join 0:06:43.556 --> 0:06:46.476 the Mennonite Church, and my brother would marry a Mennonite pastor. 0:06:46.676 --> 0:06:50.276 And I suspect that sense of community is why there's 0:06:50.316 --> 0:06:54.956 something beautiful about that kind of belonging. One more Mennonite 0:06:54.996 --> 0:06:58.396 story from my friend Jim Leftisen. This might even be 0:06:58.476 --> 0:07:01.836 the quintessential Mennonite story. About a guy who buys a 0:07:01.876 --> 0:07:04.596 house from another Mennonite whom, of course, he trusted. 0:07:04.916 --> 0:07:06.916 He bought the house and find out that in fact 0:07:06.956 --> 0:07:09.276 he'd been light to so. On either side of this 0:07:09.356 --> 0:07:15.636 man two men from a Mennonite church. One of them 0:07:15.716 --> 0:07:17.876 said to him, did he tell you that the septic 0:07:17.916 --> 0:07:21.356 system was in good shape? And he said yes he did, 0:07:22.156 --> 0:07:23.676 and he said you have to fix it. He said, yeah, 0:07:23.676 --> 0:07:25.556 I have to replace it completely. Was twelve thousand dollars 0:07:25.596 --> 0:07:26.036 or something. 0:07:26.236 --> 0:07:28.956 The septic system, one of the most expensive things in 0:07:28.996 --> 0:07:29.396 a house. 0:07:29.676 --> 0:07:32.276 He said, well, here's four thousand dollars for that. What 0:07:32.356 --> 0:07:33.916 he did wasn't right, and he goes to our church 0:07:33.996 --> 0:07:37.956 and the guy on the other side said, dumb, I'll 0:07:37.996 --> 0:07:40.396 pay whatever he didn't pay, so they together covered it. 0:07:40.396 --> 0:07:42.956 He said, he goes to our church, and that isn't right. 0:07:43.516 --> 0:07:46.996 This is the world Chester Wenger in habits. He's squarely 0:07:47.116 --> 0:07:49.596 in the middle of it. Wenger's father was one of 0:07:49.636 --> 0:07:53.956 the founders of a big Mennonite seminary in Virginia. His daughter, Sarah, 0:07:54.196 --> 0:07:57.316 is the president of the Big Mennonite Seminary in Elkhart, Indiana. 0:07:57.916 --> 0:08:01.036 Wenger lived seventeen years in Ethiopia, where he helped to 0:08:01.116 --> 0:08:03.636 found and build what is now the largest Mennonite church 0:08:03.676 --> 0:08:06.436 in the world. To Deep Ties, Deep Ties, you guys 0:08:06.476 --> 0:08:14.196 are Mennonite royalty. Basically in Hans Frey's terms. Wenger is 0:08:14.196 --> 0:08:17.836 an Orthodox Manolone, a member of the Blossom Hill Congregation 0:08:17.916 --> 0:08:28.836 in Lancaster. But there's another side to him. Mennonites come 0:08:28.876 --> 0:08:31.956 in all kinds of shapes and sizes. My parents' church 0:08:31.956 --> 0:08:35.276 in Ontario was pretty liberal, full of college professors and 0:08:35.356 --> 0:08:38.436 software engineers and teachers. My mom and her best friend 0:08:38.436 --> 0:08:42.036 Lorraine were doing feminist retreats back in the seventies. But 0:08:42.236 --> 0:08:46.316 Lancaster County, where Wenger is from, is much more conservative. 0:08:46.956 --> 0:08:49.556 The Mennonites there didn't accept women as our dained ministers 0:08:49.636 --> 0:08:52.076 until a couple of years ago, and that was something 0:08:52.076 --> 0:08:57.076 that Wenger struggled with because he's not just orthodox, he's generous. 0:08:57.676 --> 0:09:00.716 He's open to the world. He spent ten years as 0:09:00.756 --> 0:09:03.476 pastor of Blossom Hill in the nineteen eighties, so when 0:09:03.476 --> 0:09:06.596 it came to the prohibition against female pastors, Wenger would 0:09:06.636 --> 0:09:09.636 do what kind of workaround. The rules said women could 0:09:09.676 --> 0:09:13.276 not be ordained as ministers, meaning they couldn't be formally 0:09:13.396 --> 0:09:16.996 recognized as church leaders, but they could still talk on 0:09:17.116 --> 0:09:17.796 Sunday morning. 0:09:17.916 --> 0:09:21.596 Right, I used women in the pulpit that weren't ordained. 0:09:22.876 --> 0:09:26.396 I preach, and then next Sunday I'd have this woman preach, 0:09:27.036 --> 0:09:30.316 and then I'd have my wife preach. I didn't want 0:09:30.356 --> 0:09:31.196 to do all the preaching. 0:09:31.516 --> 0:09:37.076 Would if no one questions your loyalty, you can get 0:09:37.076 --> 0:09:40.636 away with that kind of subversion. Chester Wenger walked that 0:09:40.796 --> 0:09:46.236 fine line orthodox but also generous. Until one day, Chester 0:09:46.356 --> 0:09:49.476 Sun Philip comes to him, and the line becomes almost 0:09:49.516 --> 0:09:50.636 impossible to walk. 0:09:50.436 --> 0:09:50.996 It all. 0:09:56.636 --> 0:10:02.956 Growing up, I had no awareness of homosexuality anywhere. I 0:10:02.956 --> 0:10:07.276 remember somewhere along the line, maybe when I was early 0:10:07.356 --> 0:10:13.156 adolescence it I talked about a cousin of mine, but 0:10:13.316 --> 0:10:14.676 I didn't know what they were. 0:10:14.556 --> 0:10:18.316 Talking about, the question of whether someone might be gay 0:10:18.556 --> 0:10:21.636 simply never occurred to him. And it goes without saying 0:10:21.756 --> 0:10:24.276 that a community that did not permit the ordination of 0:10:24.316 --> 0:10:28.876 women until quite recently did not have progressive views on homosexuality. 0:10:29.516 --> 0:10:32.636 But one day Phil pulled his father aside. What did 0:10:32.636 --> 0:10:33.196 he tell you? 0:10:34.156 --> 0:10:38.196 I don't know the words he used, but I understood 0:10:38.196 --> 0:10:42.716 that he had attraction for males instead of females. 0:10:43.036 --> 0:10:49.716 And I said, maybe you can outgrow this, and so 0:10:49.756 --> 0:10:52.316 that's where that's where we left it. And about a 0:10:52.436 --> 0:10:55.676 year later he came back and said, Dad, I haven't 0:10:55.676 --> 0:10:59.316 outgrown it. And so we had this. 0:11:00.916 --> 0:11:05.236 Awareness that he's that's who he is. 0:11:06.276 --> 0:11:09.676 So Phil goes off to college, he comes home, he 0:11:09.756 --> 0:11:11.196 brings up the subject again. 0:11:11.556 --> 0:11:14.396 And I came to him and I explained to him 0:11:15.036 --> 0:11:16.996 ten minutes before I was going to drive back to 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:17.956 college in Virginia. 0:11:18.516 --> 0:11:20.876 That's Phil. He's in the room with me and Chester 0:11:21.436 --> 0:11:22.756 sitting across from his father. 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:27.116 That dad, this is for real. I'm going to identify 0:11:27.156 --> 0:11:29.836 as being gay. I'm going to tell other people I'm gay. 0:11:30.036 --> 0:11:33.516 I'm going to date other guys. And you know, you're 0:11:33.556 --> 0:11:34.756 going to have to get used to this. 0:11:37.036 --> 0:11:40.636 As word got out in Lancaster, the consequences were immediate. 0:11:41.676 --> 0:11:43.876 Phil had a job with the church. He lost it. 0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:46.796 He was instructed to come in and confess his sins. 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:50.436 He refused. Chester Wanger had a position in the Midda 0:11:50.516 --> 0:11:53.796 Night administration in Lancaster at the time, and attended a 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:57.596 local Meddonite church One Sunday morning. The pastor got up 0:11:57.636 --> 0:11:58.596 and made an announcement. 0:11:58.916 --> 0:12:01.476 He just read off in church one day that Phil 0:12:01.516 --> 0:12:04.756 Winger is no longer a member of our congregation. And 0:12:05.596 --> 0:12:09.236 we didn't know it. He didn't approach you first know 0:12:09.316 --> 0:12:13.716 that he was doing that, and Phil hadn't had contact 0:12:13.716 --> 0:12:17.036 with him either or him with Phil, and I couldn't 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:18.356 believe it. 0:12:18.356 --> 0:12:21.636 It was illilateral and I wasn't part of the conversation, 0:12:21.836 --> 0:12:23.956 and the deed was already done, and at that point 0:12:23.996 --> 0:12:28.396 my faith had pretty much diminished. To next to nothing, 0:12:28.756 --> 0:12:31.556 and I was going to proceed with a life outside 0:12:31.956 --> 0:12:33.556 the traditional church community. 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:38.036 Think about this through Chester Wenger's eyes. He can accept 0:12:38.076 --> 0:12:41.836 his son's sexuality, but his own church, the church to 0:12:41.876 --> 0:12:44.716 which he has been loyal all his life, that church 0:12:44.756 --> 0:12:48.116 has now cast his son out. His orthodoxy is in 0:12:48.196 --> 0:12:51.796 conflict with his generosity, and his son is caught in 0:12:51.796 --> 0:12:55.476 the middle. Can you imagine not just the pain, but 0:12:55.556 --> 0:12:58.116 the guilt. He gave his life to a church that 0:12:58.236 --> 0:13:01.196 said we're all in this together, and now that church 0:13:01.236 --> 0:13:02.516 has split his family in two. 0:13:03.236 --> 0:13:07.756 I always told Phil that your faith is most important 0:13:07.796 --> 0:13:13.596 to me. Don't give up the faith in Jesus. 0:13:16.876 --> 0:13:19.996 Phil went on to start a successful restaurant business. At 0:13:19.996 --> 0:13:22.516 one point, some years ago, he goes back to his 0:13:22.596 --> 0:13:25.836 high school reunion and there some of his old classmates 0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:28.116 confront him and tell him they would never eat at 0:13:28.116 --> 0:13:30.716 one of his restaurants. Phil tells his mother. 0:13:31.996 --> 0:13:35.236 And you told her all this, and she said to you, 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:38.556 don't give up on Jesus. 0:13:40.556 --> 0:13:44.116 He's sitting in his chair straight back ninety eight years old, 0:13:44.476 --> 0:13:48.356 Colonel Sanders meets a linebacker, a man of God, and 0:13:48.436 --> 0:13:51.996 as Chester Wenger talks about that moment years ago, when 0:13:52.036 --> 0:13:54.756 he worried that his son's soul was in jeopardy. He 0:13:54.796 --> 0:13:55.316 starts to. 0:13:55.276 --> 0:14:00.796 Weep, and I guess there was no expression at that 0:14:00.956 --> 0:14:04.396 point particularly, But as he went to go out the door, 0:14:06.156 --> 0:14:06.716 he gave. 0:14:06.556 --> 0:14:07.636 A broad swap. 0:14:09.276 --> 0:14:14.876 Test to testified, don't give up what Jesus, and he 0:14:15.116 --> 0:14:21.196 seemed to accept it with a smile. And that test 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:22.076 tests very deeply. 0:14:28.396 --> 0:14:31.316 At the beginning of this story, I said that balancing 0:14:31.396 --> 0:14:34.956 loyalty and conscience is just about the hardest thing to do. 0:14:36.036 --> 0:14:39.116 Let me give you another example. It's not as wrenching 0:14:39.156 --> 0:14:41.796 as Chester Wenger's story, but it gets at some of 0:14:41.836 --> 0:14:51.356 the same issues. It's from Princeton University, one of the 0:14:51.356 --> 0:14:53.596 schools that's been swept up in the recent wave of 0:14:53.636 --> 0:14:58.076 campus unrest. The controversy is over Woodrow Wilson, who was 0:14:58.196 --> 0:15:00.756 president of Princeton from nineteen oh two to nineteen ten, 0:15:01.076 --> 0:15:03.636 and of course, later went on to serve two terms 0:15:03.636 --> 0:15:06.796 as President of the United States. Princeton named one of 0:15:06.796 --> 0:15:10.356 his most prestigious graduate schools after him, the Wilson School 0:15:10.396 --> 0:15:14.916 of Public and International Affairs. Wilson did many remarkable and 0:15:14.996 --> 0:15:17.396 important things as the head of Princeton and later as 0:15:17.436 --> 0:15:21.636 president but he was a racist, and not a mild one, 0:15:21.996 --> 0:15:24.796 a kind of nasty one. So in the fall of 0:15:24.876 --> 0:15:28.516 twenty fifteen, activists at the school staged a thirty two 0:15:28.556 --> 0:15:31.716 hours sitting in the office of the Princeton president. They 0:15:31.756 --> 0:15:33.236 want Wilson's name off. 0:15:33.236 --> 0:15:38.236 The graduate schoolerpetuated in ideology that has led to the 0:15:38.316 --> 0:15:41.476 continuous shut aside of black people in this country. 0:15:41.556 --> 0:15:46.516 He is a murderer. We all have nothing. This university everything. 0:15:50.516 --> 0:15:53.476 Jacob Smith, one of my producers, talked to one of 0:15:53.476 --> 0:15:58.036 the protesters, a sophomore named will Glory Tanjohn. The promise 0:15:58.076 --> 0:16:01.036 of Princeton, she argues, is that all its students will 0:16:01.076 --> 0:16:05.316 feel at home. This campus is for you. But everywhere 0:16:05.316 --> 0:16:07.516 she goes, she sees pictures of Wilson. 0:16:08.116 --> 0:16:12.076 Everywhere in the most random places, there are rooms that 0:16:12.156 --> 0:16:15.796 have just all these huge photos of this white man 0:16:15.876 --> 0:16:18.596 peering down on you. Right, So when you see these 0:16:18.676 --> 0:16:20.356 kind of things, you really feel like, what was this 0:16:20.476 --> 0:16:22.956 university meant for me? Or is it still really meant 0:16:22.996 --> 0:16:24.236 for white men? 0:16:25.796 --> 0:16:28.516 Now? I happen to agree with Tanjohn. How do you 0:16:28.556 --> 0:16:31.556 think Princeton became one of the wealthiest universities in the world. 0:16:32.276 --> 0:16:35.236 The place is ground zero for rich white guys. Just 0:16:35.316 --> 0:16:40.236 walk around campus. There's the carl Icon Laboratory. That's Carl Icon, 0:16:40.356 --> 0:16:44.916 rich white male, corporate raider billionaire. There's the Frick Chemistry Laboratory. 0:16:45.116 --> 0:16:49.676 That's Henry Clay Frick, white male robber baron. The Firestone 0:16:49.716 --> 0:16:53.076 Library that's the rich white guy who started Firestone Tires. 0:16:53.476 --> 0:16:56.996 The Bezos Center for Neural Circuit Dynamics, you know, the 0:16:57.076 --> 0:17:00.276 rich white guy who founded Amazon. Look over there, it's 0:17:00.316 --> 0:17:03.036 the Lewis Center for the Arts. That's Peter Lewis, the 0:17:03.076 --> 0:17:06.956 white guy who started Progressive Insurance. The John Scully Center 0:17:06.996 --> 0:17:10.316 for the Neuroscience of Mind and Behavior. Scully a rich 0:17:10.356 --> 0:17:12.716 white guy. Not to be confused, by the way, with 0:17:12.796 --> 0:17:15.316 the other John Scully, a rich white guy who used 0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:18.556 to run Apple. This is the even richer John Scully 0:17:18.556 --> 0:17:21.756 who manages billions of dollars on Wall Street. Do I 0:17:21.796 --> 0:17:25.716 need to go on Rockefeller Hall, richest white guy ever. 0:17:27.476 --> 0:17:31.796 Of course, there's also Emma B. Bloomberg Hall. Emma Bloomberg 0:17:32.156 --> 0:17:35.396 not a white guy, except wait, she's the daughter of 0:17:35.476 --> 0:17:39.596 Michael Bloomberg. Super super like forty three billion dollar rich 0:17:39.636 --> 0:17:44.636 white guy. They don't hide their identities at Princeton. They 0:17:44.636 --> 0:17:50.956 put their identities on every single building on campus. A 0:17:50.996 --> 0:17:53.116 few weeks after the students sit in, there was a 0:17:53.156 --> 0:17:56.156 town hall meeting on the Princeton campus to discuss whether 0:17:56.236 --> 0:17:58.196 or not to change the name of the Wilson School. 0:17:58.676 --> 0:18:01.236 I really hope that people really think about why we 0:18:01.316 --> 0:18:04.516 are so tied to this name, like what really changes 0:18:04.556 --> 0:18:05.556 if we change the name. 0:18:06.036 --> 0:18:08.836 It was held at the Richardson Auditorium, lots of dark 0:18:08.876 --> 0:18:12.196 wood in stone tapestries on the wall. By the way, 0:18:12.436 --> 0:18:15.556 a building named in honor of David B. Richardson, class 0:18:15.556 --> 0:18:19.436 of thirty three, usefully described in the Princeton promotional literature 0:18:19.636 --> 0:18:23.636 as a quote lifelong enthusiast of classical music and a 0:18:23.676 --> 0:18:28.156 successful lawyer and investor. Another rich white guy. Think about it, 0:18:28.436 --> 0:18:32.076 Princeton literally could not find a single place to discuss 0:18:32.116 --> 0:18:34.876 the troubled legacy of a rich white guy that was 0:18:34.916 --> 0:18:38.156 not named after a rich white guy. Here's the first 0:18:38.156 --> 0:18:39.276 guy who gets up to speak. 0:18:39.556 --> 0:18:44.556 I'm Harvey Rothberg, class of the great class of nineteen 0:18:44.716 --> 0:18:50.276 forty nine. I absolutely believe that the name of Woodrow 0:18:50.276 --> 0:18:54.436 Wilson should be preserved at the head of the School 0:18:54.436 --> 0:18:57.276 of Public and International Affairs. 0:18:57.116 --> 0:19:00.636 Rothberg says it's important that everyone know who Wilson was 0:19:01.036 --> 0:19:01.956 and what the man did. 0:19:02.356 --> 0:19:08.356 There could be a memorial plaque, engraved in bronze and 0:19:08.436 --> 0:19:12.836 so on, which would detail in a short paragraph his 0:19:12.956 --> 0:19:16.836 great achievements as president of this university, and in a 0:19:16.876 --> 0:19:22.596 second paragraph his great achievements as president of the United 0:19:22.636 --> 0:19:27.996 States and on the international scene as well. But there 0:19:27.996 --> 0:19:33.356 could also be a final paragraph, a short one, which 0:19:33.396 --> 0:19:40.156 would say something like Wilson's prejudiced views on racial matters 0:19:40.716 --> 0:19:45.116 were undoubtedly influenced and shaped by his background and his 0:19:45.196 --> 0:19:48.556 growing up in the post bellum South. 0:19:49.716 --> 0:19:52.596 Then another alum gets up and he agrees. 0:19:52.796 --> 0:19:53.556 He's a giant. 0:19:53.796 --> 0:19:57.396 You can't just take his name off of schools or colleges. 0:19:57.476 --> 0:20:00.036 We have to keep them. All people are flawed. 0:20:00.676 --> 0:20:03.516 He also likes the plack idea. But this speaker has 0:20:03.556 --> 0:20:06.236 a quibble with a short paragraph about prejudice. 0:20:06.516 --> 0:20:10.996 I think it can't just say Wilson was influenced by 0:20:11.116 --> 0:20:16.676 the prevailing more a's of the time, because a man 0:20:16.756 --> 0:20:20.276 of his stature should have seen beyond that. And I 0:20:20.276 --> 0:20:24.236 think some of the platforms to acknowledge that real harm 0:20:24.396 --> 0:20:25.716 was caused to real people. 0:20:29.876 --> 0:20:32.396 This is what the protesters are up against. I mean, 0:20:32.716 --> 0:20:36.916 can you believe these guys. When Wilson took office as president, 0:20:37.196 --> 0:20:40.676 the Federal Civil Service was one of the only institutions 0:20:40.676 --> 0:20:44.556 in Washington that was integrated. Blacks had jobs next to whites. 0:20:45.236 --> 0:20:48.676 One of the first things Wilson does is reverse that policy. 0:20:49.236 --> 0:20:52.036 Lots of black federal workers get fired, and it becomes 0:20:52.116 --> 0:20:54.916 really hard for educated African Americans to get a job 0:20:54.956 --> 0:20:58.356 in Washington. And when a delegation of black professionals comes 0:20:58.356 --> 0:21:00.836 to him to complain, you know what he says to them. 0:21:01.556 --> 0:21:05.116 Segregation is not a humiliation but a benefit and ought 0:21:05.156 --> 0:21:09.596 to be so regarded by you, gentlemen. This is the 0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:13.116 guy Princeton venerates. And the thing that the first two 0:21:13.156 --> 0:21:16.596 speakers are arguing about is the wording of the last 0:21:16.676 --> 0:21:19.276 paragraph of the plaque. They want to put up the 0:21:19.316 --> 0:21:22.796 plaque as if the whole controversy were really just an 0:21:22.796 --> 0:21:27.436 exercise in improving signage. For goodness sake, take the man's 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:31.236 name down. If you don't want to change the schools stationary, 0:21:31.676 --> 0:21:34.756 just choose another Wilson. There are lots of Wilson's out 0:21:34.756 --> 0:21:39.396 there who don't hate black people. Jackie Rita Russell flip 0:21:39.676 --> 0:21:43.076 rebel Owen, how about the Owen Wilson School of Public 0:21:43.076 --> 0:21:47.116 and International Affairs. But the only way people like this 0:21:47.316 --> 0:21:49.636 are going to listen to the protesters is if they 0:21:49.676 --> 0:21:54.196 think the protesters care about Princeton, care about Princeton the 0:21:54.236 --> 0:21:58.516 way it is. They'll accept generosity only if it comes 0:21:58.596 --> 0:22:03.476 with some orthodoxy. They want some acknowledgment that the protesters 0:22:03.556 --> 0:22:07.556 appreciate what they've been given, some concession that the rich 0:22:07.596 --> 0:22:11.236 white guys who make them so uncomfortable also made it 0:22:11.276 --> 0:22:14.516 possible for them to attend a school that looks like Versailles, 0:22:14.916 --> 0:22:18.556 if Versailles, by some accident of history, had been built 0:22:18.596 --> 0:22:21.916 not outside of Paris, but between Trenton and Newark, New Jersey. 0:22:22.516 --> 0:22:24.076 But instead, what do they hear? 0:22:24.676 --> 0:22:27.076 This university owes us everything. 0:22:27.436 --> 0:22:29.716 I walked around on this campus understanding that this was 0:22:29.716 --> 0:22:32.036 built on the backs of my people, and I owe 0:22:32.076 --> 0:22:33.676 none of you guys anything. 0:22:33.716 --> 0:22:37.116 We owe white people nothing, and not for the for 0:22:37.236 --> 0:22:38.476 the evilness and. 0:22:38.516 --> 0:22:40.796 A white hatred in this country, we would not have 0:22:40.916 --> 0:22:42.516 to be fighting for our rights. 0:22:42.956 --> 0:22:46.476 All of this is mine. My people built this place. 0:22:47.276 --> 0:22:51.476 She's angry, she's passionate. Maybe right now she regrets her 0:22:51.556 --> 0:22:54.236 choice of words when I was an angry young student 0:22:54.236 --> 0:22:57.196 a generation ago. I ended up regretting my words. But 0:22:57.276 --> 0:23:01.076 I went to school before every emotional outburst got immortalized 0:23:01.076 --> 0:23:05.076 on YouTube, and those words are what every crotchety old 0:23:05.076 --> 0:23:08.716 Princeton alum heard when they went online. All of this 0:23:08.796 --> 0:23:11.916 is mine. How do you think they felt when they 0:23:11.956 --> 0:23:14.036 heard that or some version of this. 0:23:15.156 --> 0:23:17.356 I don't feel welcomes when you walk on this campus 0:23:17.396 --> 0:23:19.676 and you see the name of POJOA. Wilson on the 0:23:19.756 --> 0:23:22.236 graduate building, right will. 0:23:22.036 --> 0:23:25.876 Glory Tanjohn complaining about the privileged white guys peering down 0:23:25.916 --> 0:23:29.316 on her. But she chose to go to Princeton Ground 0:23:29.396 --> 0:23:32.356 zero for the privileged white guy. It's not like the 0:23:32.396 --> 0:23:34.836 school covered over the names on those buildings when she 0:23:34.876 --> 0:23:38.316 came for her campus visit. She's basically saying that the 0:23:38.316 --> 0:23:41.836 school I chose to attend, the school that makes no 0:23:41.876 --> 0:23:44.596 attempt to hide what it is and what it stands for, 0:23:45.156 --> 0:23:47.916 is not I suddenly realize a place that makes me 0:23:47.996 --> 0:23:52.396 feel comfortable, and so I want to change it. These 0:23:52.436 --> 0:24:00.076