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Speaker 1: What up, y'all. Welcome back to episode three of All

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Speaker 1: the Smoke Coming to from New York. We've got a

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Speaker 1: special guest today that I'm very excited to talk to

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Speaker 1: someone that I've just kind of learned so much from,

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Speaker 1: uh from social media, someone who was a real leader

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Speaker 1: in our community when it comes to social justice. Wipe

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Speaker 1: your hands real quick. No, actually today I got you.

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Speaker 1: Look yeah, I think you really won one. Washington Line

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Speaker 1: of Day. Hey man, we got a special guest, Man

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Speaker 1: Shaun king Man, the People's champ. This is pop. I

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Speaker 1: can't say enough good things about to do, but kind

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Speaker 1: of pop cultures go to guy for social justice, social activism. Um,

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Speaker 1: A positive voice, a real voice. It's good to have

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Speaker 1: you here. MA appreciate it. Man, Thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: to Also also educator. A lot of stuff that go on.

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Speaker 1: You educate a lot of people when they don't know

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Speaker 1: what they're talking about. You know, my first job out

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Speaker 1: of college was as a teacher, and so much of

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Speaker 1: what I do is still from that training, trying to

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Speaker 1: just teach and break stuff down. So that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of what I've did. And people need to be susceptible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we know, uh, pretty much what you're about,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna get into that the detail, but what

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Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to tap into. I'm excited personally

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Speaker 1: just to kind of get to know Seaun King the

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Speaker 1: person you know, not the person that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: the social justice fighter that we all know and love,

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Speaker 1: but you know your upbringing and and and what got

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Speaker 1: you going into this space to tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about Oh man, Yeah, I mean, I you know,

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Speaker 1: social media is weird like that because it kind of

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Speaker 1: reduces us to little sound bites and tweets, and we're

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Speaker 1: all way more nuanced and complicated than our best Instagram post.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in rural Kentucky and we're all

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Speaker 1: about the same age. And so I grew up in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and a small town right outside of Lexington.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up a huge basketball fan, big UK

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Speaker 1: fans UK. Right, Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know there

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Speaker 1: were some Louisville fans you know, around, But no, not

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Speaker 1: at all, man, No, not. I can't even play a

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Speaker 1: game of horse right, right, right. But so I grew up. Man,

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Speaker 1: When I think about the way I came up, you know,

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Speaker 1: my mother was a single parent, hard working, working class

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Speaker 1: white woman who worked in a local factory there in

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Speaker 1: the town. And I was a product of an interracial

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Speaker 1: relationship and in this town, like that was unheard of. Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm born in nineteen seventy nine and in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: growing up looking the way I looked from the from

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Speaker 1: the relationship I came from, it was weird. Like this

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Speaker 1: was before being mixed or by racial. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: have that language, Like this was before any of that

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Speaker 1: was cool. And so in the town I grew up in,

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Speaker 1: I never even saw myself as mixed or multi racial.

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Speaker 1: I was black. Like that's interesting. What age did you

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Speaker 1: realize you're a black man? Because I'm similar, I'm Italian

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Speaker 1: and black. But I knew at seventeen from a particular

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Speaker 1: instant that I was looked at as a black man.

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Speaker 1: Well here's man, I have a book that comes out

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Speaker 1: in April, and I tell this whole story. So in

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Speaker 1: my house, my mother never talked to me about race.

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Speaker 1: And I try to tell people, like, you know, a

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Speaker 1: white household, we had like a very low racial I

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Speaker 1: Q like my mom wasn't trying to school me on

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Speaker 1: race or racism. So I was in second grade when

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Speaker 1: two young black girls in the school who were friends

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Speaker 1: of mine for life came up to me and asked

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Speaker 1: me if I was mixed. And I remember, like, I've

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Speaker 1: played it cool my whole life, but I remember being

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Speaker 1: so confused when they were like, are you mixed? And

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Speaker 1: they were giggling. What they wanted to know And I

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Speaker 1: didn't understand this two years later. Was they wanted to

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Speaker 1: know if it was okay for them to think I

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Speaker 1: was cute because their parents had taught them don't mess

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Speaker 1: with white boys at the school, so they wanted to know,

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Speaker 1: are you mixed? And so in second grade, I start

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Speaker 1: realizing like, oh, I'm different. And by the time I

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Speaker 1: got to middle school, like I went from thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm different too, Oh I'm black, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting at the the black table, my girlfriends are black

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Speaker 1: or my friends are black. By the time I get

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Speaker 1: to high school, I've told this story before, Um, it

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Speaker 1: was a whole. It was a whole another monster. Like

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Speaker 1: the town was super segregated and there was just major

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Speaker 1: racial strife in the high school. And so I mean

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Speaker 1: we were being called the N word. I had a

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Speaker 1: redneck one time throw a jar tobacco, spit in my face,

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Speaker 1: like we were dealing with full on bigotry in nine teen,

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Speaker 1: Like this was I was fourteen at the time. I

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Speaker 1: got beaten so badly by a group of racist white students.

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Speaker 1: I missed my whole sophomore and junior year of high

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Speaker 1: school recovery from those injuries, and that shaped the rest

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Speaker 1: of my life, Like I don't even know, Like so

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Speaker 1: I hate that that happened. I had three spinal surgeries.

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Speaker 1: I fought my way back to recovery. But had that

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Speaker 1: not happened, I don't even know that you would know me.

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Speaker 1: Like I was not on the path to fighting for

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Speaker 1: social justice for civil rights, but going through all of

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Speaker 1: that impacted me so deeply that this fight for justice

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Speaker 1: became a huge part of my life. And so from

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Speaker 1: n on, I've always been not just fighting for civil rights,

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Speaker 1: but I've always had a huge heart for people that

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Speaker 1: are hurting, for people that experienced injustice. But even through

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Speaker 1: all of that, I mean, I've always sometimes just been

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Speaker 1: at this weird spot when it comes to race. You know,

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Speaker 1: in in this country, Uh, we haven't always had the

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Speaker 1: nuance for people who operate in multiple worlds. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because it's a similar upbringing. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm Italian and black. Um, so I was never black

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Speaker 1: enough and I was never white enough, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. And I went through stuff and elementary school

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Speaker 1: where baby calling me nigger, so I would fight him,

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Speaker 1: and so I really didn't get a chance to show

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Speaker 1: who I was until you know I was. I was

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Speaker 1: bigger obviously, but they would never let me play at

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Speaker 1: recess and the girls didn't look at me like me

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Speaker 1: because I went to my parents. Although I was mixed,

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Speaker 1: They've always put me in white schools, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just for whatever reason may ben. So I would go

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Speaker 1: through racial stuff and it was just like okay, and

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Speaker 1: I was proud to say, okay, I was always mixed.

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Speaker 1: I was always mixed. I was always mixed until my

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Speaker 1: senior high school where a kidd spit and my sister's

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Speaker 1: hero and Calder and nick girl and actually came up

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Speaker 1: and told me after class, I happened to see the

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Speaker 1: dude walking by, so I did what a big brother

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Speaker 1: does and I ended up getting suspended. And during my suspension,

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Speaker 1: the KKK came up to my school and just vandalized it,

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Speaker 1: burned down the bathroom, hung my football, a man it

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Speaker 1: came with my football jersey on the die knicker swastikas everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and it was really at that point where I'm just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: although I'm very proud to be Italian, I'm black and

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Speaker 1: people look at me as being black, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: the society can't you can't proudly be mixed, and many

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Speaker 1: mixed kids as there are like if you have black

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Speaker 1: in your you're black, and that's how people look at

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Speaker 1: you as black. As you know from It's wild that

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Speaker 1: you experienced that, man, because that's one of the first

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Speaker 1: times I've heard of a store if somebody experiencing something

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Speaker 1: like that. Because in three I got into a same thing.

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Speaker 1: We were always in, like horrible racial fights, and um,

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Speaker 1: I got into this horrible fight at a football game

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Speaker 1: and the next week the school band, the high school

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Speaker 1: I went to, banned Confederate flags. And when they banned

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Speaker 1: these Confederate flags, there was a huge walkout of white

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Speaker 1: students who were who wanted their Confederate flags. Why I

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Speaker 1: got suspended because of the fight that I was in

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Speaker 1: and when I came back to school after they had

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Speaker 1: banned those Confederate flags, like white students at the school

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Speaker 1: saw me as the reason they banned those Confederate flags.

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Speaker 1: So the heat and the pressure was on me from

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Speaker 1: that point forward. And if it force my identity, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least in this town, I didn't have the experience

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Speaker 1: of not being black enough, Like black folks in this

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Speaker 1: small town just accepted me with open arms. And so

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Speaker 1: I've seen even with some of my own children, depending

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Speaker 1: on on their tone, of sometimes feeling like they don't

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Speaker 1: quite fit in. But the beauty of New York is

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Speaker 1: that everybody can blend in in New York. And so

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Speaker 1: my kids, people don't know if they're Puerto Rican or

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Speaker 1: Dominican or whatever, so they all they always fit in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's transition a little in a in a little different

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Speaker 1: path with Um. You know, obviously we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: Kaepernick situation. But I think as far back as um Cream,

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Speaker 1: Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, you fast forward to and if

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Speaker 1: people that don't get enough credit and spoken about as

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Speaker 1: Craig Hodges, mak Mood, ab Dul Rove, guys who lost

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Speaker 1: their career and we're pretty much outsted blackball, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: From the NBA, two Lebron James really taking athletes platform

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Speaker 1: and giving us a voice that traveled worldwide. What are

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Speaker 1: your what are your thoughts as far as sports and

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Speaker 1: basketball in particular right now? Well, yeah, I think Lebron

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Speaker 1: has changed the game for a lot of people. And

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Speaker 1: I mean he he went so strong with it that

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Speaker 1: it's given a lot of people permission, like in so

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Speaker 1: many ways, because he's the FA of the league and

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Speaker 1: one of the most known athletes in the world. When

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Speaker 1: he stands up for social justice, it makes it easier

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Speaker 1: for all the other players to do so. I think

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Speaker 1: I thought that was gonna happen with Colin Kaepernick in

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Speaker 1: the NFL. Like, I know he was not at the

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Speaker 1: peak of his career when he took a knee, but

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Speaker 1: I think I thought that when he took that stand,

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Speaker 1: that he was a big enough name and have been

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Speaker 1: successful enough that it wouldn't cost him his career. Like

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Speaker 1: imagine the NBA equivalent of Colin Kaepernick, whatever that we

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Speaker 1: could think of, who that is? Yeah, Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a success, super successful player basically being banned from the NBA.

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Speaker 1: Well that's that's my mood up due Rove. You know,

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Speaker 1: like as progressive as we think the NBA is now

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Speaker 1: and it's a lot, it's the best it's ever been.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that way just twenty years ago. Like mostly

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Speaker 1: like even when I had to teach my son like son,

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Speaker 1: these two guys as Craig Hodges and my Mood up

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Speaker 1: du roof that I loved as a kid, Like I

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Speaker 1: I watched Chris Jackson played for l s U and

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Speaker 1: we love this guy like man. These guys had their

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Speaker 1: careers ruined, and it's hard for this new generation to

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Speaker 1: realize that in some ways, both of those guys Craig

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Speaker 1: Hodges and Myke moved up to rowth, they are still

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Speaker 1: kind of actively banned from the league. The league still

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Speaker 1: won't touch them. And um, I've talked to both of

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Speaker 1: those brothers and it's it's still painful for them. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like there's two streets right now where

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Speaker 1: the NBA is super progressive for these current players, but

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Speaker 1: you get these former players who still feel very hurt

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Speaker 1: and left behind by it, And um, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: proud that the NBA has given brothers the space to

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Speaker 1: kind of speak their peace, but I mean there's still

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Speaker 1: room to grow, for sure. I agree. My Mood is

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Speaker 1: still playing in the Big Three, and right has done

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Speaker 1: a lot for him. But oh yeah, people that didn't

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Speaker 1: know him, they learned a lot about him now from

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Speaker 1: from the success he's having a Big Three and then

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Speaker 1: they were able to learn his story now, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then when a lot of people seen him, that

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Speaker 1: was a big thing for the Big Three because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people wonder where did he go? What happened

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Speaker 1: to him? So to see him still in great shape

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Speaker 1: at fifty to still be one of the best shooters

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Speaker 1: in the Big Three like it was, it was it

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Speaker 1: was refreshing for him to get back on that stage

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Speaker 1: and it proved right away. It's like, oh, he definitely

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Speaker 1: should have been in the league, like this notion that

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Speaker 1: one of the best scores ever. They started making memes

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Speaker 1: of Steph Curb before Steph Curry was showing this picture.

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Speaker 1: He could have He could have played another ten active

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Speaker 1: seasons and you see him in the Big Three, you realize, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they cut ten years of this. You know, what do

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Speaker 1: you think about Lebron being so outspoken? And then Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's not really wanting to take that. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know that's an individual if you feel comfortable speaking, but

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Speaker 1: of your thoughts. When someone such as Jordan has a

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Speaker 1: platform and lebron as a platform and we have one

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Speaker 1: guy doing it. The one guy not well. You know.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up as a kid, just a young kid,

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Speaker 1: like a huge super fan of Michael and so like

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Speaker 1: when things like the l A Riots and Rodney King

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Speaker 1: beating it happened, I didn't understand how pissed people were

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Speaker 1: that Jordan wasn't speaking out. But like if there was

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Speaker 1: social media back then, there would have been trending topics

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Speaker 1: about his silence. Like he he wouldn't touch it. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time it was there's a part of me,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to say that wants to give him

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Speaker 1: a pass, but he was I think he understood, at

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Speaker 1: least believed that his calculation was if I speak out

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Speaker 1: on this, it could jam up my career. There's another

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Speaker 1: part of me that looks at m j and his

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Speaker 1: prime and thinks, man, you could have said whenever you

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Speaker 1: want on it like he was him. We almost have

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Speaker 1: to go back in time. I mean, he was at

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Speaker 1: one time the single most popular human being on the planet,

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Speaker 1: not just athlete like he was he could do no wrong,

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Speaker 1: and so had he spoken out against police brutality, the mity.

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Speaker 1: He had just spoken out against police brutality, so he

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Speaker 1: could have ushered that in. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: the calculations that caused him to think it was too risky,

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Speaker 1: but I remember I remember a few years ago where

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Speaker 1: Lebron wasn't speaking out on police brutality and social justice

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Speaker 1: like he is now. This young boy in Cleveland, Tamir Rights,

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Speaker 1: twelve years old, had just been shot and killed, and

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Speaker 1: it took over the whole city of Cleveland, the whole country.

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Speaker 1: And this is in at like the height of the

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter movement, and they had put a mic

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Speaker 1: in front of Lebron's face and asked him what he

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Speaker 1: thought about it, and he basically said he didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything about the case, which was I thought one of

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Speaker 1: two things at the time, and I put him on

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Speaker 1: blasts on social media for it. If he really didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything about the case, then that's crazy because he

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Speaker 1: was right there in his city and it took over

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Speaker 1: the whole city. Or he kind of froze in that

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Speaker 1: moment and didn't want to see anything. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to say anything, and the pushback that he got from that,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was the pushback that caused him

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Speaker 1: to say, I need to do more but it but

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Speaker 1: yeah and the thing I need to do more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think he felt like it. Even Tamir,

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Speaker 1: his family was hurt by it, and I think when

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Speaker 1: he saw that, I think it's stung. And I've worked

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Speaker 1: with hundreds of guys in the NBA and NFL. What

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Speaker 1: I know is every day, brothers are making these quick

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Speaker 1: calculations about what's okay to say, what's not what's not okay,

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Speaker 1: And um, I think whatever Lebron messed up on a

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Speaker 1: few years ago, he has more than made up for

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Speaker 1: it over these past few years. Like even when I

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Speaker 1: see him just after the game loving on young brothers

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Speaker 1: and and and showing new players moves and are Like

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Speaker 1: even when I look at old school players like Jordan

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Speaker 1: even before them, like they weren't even seeing themselves as

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Speaker 1: like mentors of the young guys. Yeah, he's different. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, old school man, you just you played the

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Speaker 1: game and left the court, and so I think, but

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Speaker 1: I think Lebron changed that in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: It just now the older generations kind of mentoring the

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Speaker 1: younger generation. Song. It's it's a good thing. As athletes

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Speaker 1: are kind of people expect Lebron to speak up on stuff,

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Speaker 1: and and Steph and Kyrie and the name go on.

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Speaker 1: I've always wondered why people don't look at Tom Brady,

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Speaker 1: goat status, Hall of Famer, right, best quarterback ever, why

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Speaker 1: don't people look to Tom Brady to to speak up

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Speaker 1: on stuff like that. That's a good question, man, I

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Speaker 1: mean Tom Brady. If you think about it, Tom Brady

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Speaker 1: is he is the Michael Jordan's, no question, and in

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Speaker 1: terms of his his skills, his titles, and his almost

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Speaker 1: near silence on anything social be it be it Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump being racism and bigotry, Like you gotta you gotta

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Speaker 1: really twist that man's arm to get him to even

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Speaker 1: hint that he cares about any social issues in the world.

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Speaker 1: And I think in a lot of ways, white athletes

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Speaker 1: get a major pass on not just issues related to

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, but white supremacy itself. And it kind of

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Speaker 1: begs this idea that white supremacy is an issue that

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Speaker 1: black folks only are supposed to speak out on, and

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Speaker 1: the opposite is true, Like if Tom Brady and white

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Speaker 1: athletes spoke out more on bigotry and racism and white supremacy.

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Speaker 1: They could actually impact the people who are advancing it,

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Speaker 1: and those guys are completely silent. Man, so Tom gets

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Speaker 1: a complete pass. But there was Kyle Krber about that

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Speaker 1: open letter that I thought was amazing. Yeah. Or you

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Speaker 1: know there's a guy, the relief pitcher for the Washington Nationals,

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Speaker 1: um who just won the World Series, uh Dolittle. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was the first guy to say he wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to go to the White House when the Nationals were

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Speaker 1: invited there. But he pinned this, uh this op ed

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Speaker 1: on why he wasn't going to the White House and

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Speaker 1: he gave about like fourteen or fifteen reasons on why

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Speaker 1: he just couldn't do it and be with his wife

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Speaker 1: the next day or be with his family the next day,

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Speaker 1: and um, the World Series MVP rendon he didn't go.

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Speaker 1: And so you have some white athletes or who are

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Speaker 1: doing it and uh Dolittle even said in that op

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Speaker 1: ed like he mentioned uh long and others of saying like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's some other white guys that kind of came before me,

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Speaker 1: and so I see it now is my responsibility? But

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Speaker 1: Tom Brady is he's a ghost and um, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: I mean he could he could do more further the movement,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And to me, to be

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Speaker 1: fair to these people, to Mike and Tom and whoever,

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Speaker 1: it's always a bit about being comfortable. Just because you

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Speaker 1: have a platform, you may not be comfortable. You may

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Speaker 1: not be bursting the subject, you may not want to

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Speaker 1: say anything for whatever your reasons. But to me, like

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Speaker 1: I think there's enough athletes now that are utilizing their platform.

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Speaker 1: We can always use as many as possible. We can

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Speaker 1: always use more racist uh different races, obviously white and

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Speaker 1: whoever else speaking up on it. But to me, it's

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Speaker 1: something you have to be embracing something to be comfortable with,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean I try to

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Speaker 1: see each of these guys and like you said, including

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Speaker 1: Tom or others, the people, and you know, it's easy

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Speaker 1: for us to to reduce any of these athletes as

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Speaker 1: something other than just just a human being. And um

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Speaker 1: and some sometimes with a guy like Thomas that he

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Speaker 1: might not know, but I I still refuse to give

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Speaker 1: him a pass. I mean, there are many issues. Like

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Speaker 1: he he said a little bit in defensive Colin Kaepernick,

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Speaker 1: but that's about the most I've ever heard him saying.

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Speaker 1: You know, we know that you know, you're kind of

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Speaker 1: being an athlete. I know I reached out to you

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Speaker 1: personally a couple of times. Athletes come to you and

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Speaker 1: and and discuss obviously this or maybe something they're going

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Speaker 1: through and what are some of the messages you give

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Speaker 1: to them, and you hope they get from that because

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Speaker 1: you say early on you you know you haven't a

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Speaker 1: background in education, you know, so you're always educating. What

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Speaker 1: it depends. It depends on when it depends on when

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Speaker 1: guys come to me. Like there there are probably three

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Speaker 1: scenarios where guys come to me from from all sports.

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Speaker 1: One is a guy's in trouble and he's he is

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Speaker 1: he has said something or done something problematic and he's

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Speaker 1: now trending on Twitter and people have said, hey, you

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Speaker 1: need to go talk to Shaun King and and he'll

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Speaker 1: talk you through this, and I'm okay with that. Like

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Speaker 1: that's helped me build trust with guys because they understand

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Speaker 1: that if they come to me. If there's a there's

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Speaker 1: an NBA player who said something during the height of

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Speaker 1: police brutality a few years ago, and he just he

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Speaker 1: said something really dumb on Twitter, and uh, he was

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Speaker 1: the top turning topic in the country, and we came

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Speaker 1: to me and was like, he just didn't understand what

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Speaker 1: he said that was wrong. He said something in effect

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, if if we handled our situations

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Speaker 1: better with police, there wouldn't be as much police brutality

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Speaker 1: or something that people were just flaming him on social media.

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Speaker 1: So my job is to kind of educate him behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes without anybody ever knowing what that conversation is

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Speaker 1: about out and trying to say like, here's what you

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Speaker 1: said that was wrong, here's why it was wrong, Here's

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Speaker 1: why people are pissed. And I get that every few days,

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Speaker 1: man of a guy who tried to wait into something

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Speaker 1: and just missed the mark in part because nobody schooled

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Speaker 1: them or educated them on it. Um. I get guys

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Speaker 1: who are asking, like, how do they use their influence

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Speaker 1: on an issue to make a difference in there in

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Speaker 1: the city they play in, or in their hometown where

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Speaker 1: they grew up in. And that's a different situation where

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to help brothers understand, like here's how you

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00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: could be a creative foundation away in on social issues

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00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: that matter. And and then one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I get that surprises me is I get players who

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00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: often are asking me to introduce them to some other athletes,

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00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: and I think people have this assumption that all athletes

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Speaker 1: know each other and pret equally, like I found that

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00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: in in the NFL in particular, of it's a brutal sport,

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Speaker 1: and like even in the in the NBA, where you

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00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: guys are on the court seeing each other, talking with

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00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: each other, no helmet, and it's it's competitive, but it's

408
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: not physically as brutal as the NFL. Most NFL guys,

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00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: if you didn't go to college with these guys, you're

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00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: not talking team versus team. So a lot of times

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00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm introducing NBA players NFL players or even guys within

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Speaker 1: the league because they don't really know each other, and

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00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: there's not I think people think there's like a directory

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00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: and uh, and there's not. And so sometimes I try

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00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: to be the bridge between players. What about now, I

416
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: mean moving to CAP someone you've obviously been you know,

417
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: become close with and and talked to and to me

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00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: when it first happened, like you said, I thought it

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00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: was gonna be monumental and all the players are going

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Speaker 1: to do it, and it was really pro that for

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00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: a while. But then kind of the trickle down effect

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00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: and possibly people understanding that, Okay, well if I do,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lose my career, I'm not gonna lose

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00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: my livelihood. What what what was your thought on the

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00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: overall situation with that. You know, before, before I knew

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Speaker 1: him personally, I was a fan, Like I watched him

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Speaker 1: admired and watched them go to the super Bowl. They

428
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: were literally a play away a few yards away from

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Speaker 1: winning the Super Bowl, and uh in uh he reached

430
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: out to me when there were several issues of police

431
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: brutality and I saw this was Twitter was even smaller

432
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: back then. This was before Trump's election even and um,

433
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: we just started talking through Twitter d M and he

434
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: would ask me to explain a certain case of police

435
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: brutality or asked me what I thought. But he wasn't

436
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: even really tweeting about it. But this was before before

437
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: he ever took a knee, before people understood what was

438
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: going on in his head. And um, he had had

439
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: several injuries that ended that season, and I think, and

440
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: I know you guys have experienced this, Like during that injury,

441
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: it just was a real reflective period for him, Like

442
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: during the grind of a season. When you're not injured,

443
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to think about anything other than the game.

444
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: And he had this period for the first time in

445
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: his whole adult life where he wasn't playing and he

446
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: was just able to kind of think through the issues.

447
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: And that summer there were three different brutal police killings

448
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: of a man named Terence Crutcher in Oklahoma, Philando Castill

449
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: in Minnesota, and then Alton Sterling and bad Rouge and

450
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: we forget it, but then there was in response to that,

451
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: there was a brother in Louisiana and a brother in

452
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: Dallas who started shooting police officers. And that summer was

453
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: so volatile, and Colin and I were were messaging and

454
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: talking several times a day at that point, and he

455
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: was at a preseason game and he didn't tell anybody.

456
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't even think he told his partner anybody he

457
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: was gonna do this. Just when they played the national anthem.

458
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: I think he had just a personal human moment where

459
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: he heard it. It was just like, I'm not standing

460
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: up for that that but all of that stuff was

461
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: going on. It was literally the week that all of

462
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: that was going down, and then he but no one noticed.

463
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: And then he did it the next week where he

464
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: wasn't taking a knee, He just didn't. He was like,

465
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: I'm not standing up for it, and a lot of

466
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: people felt like that, Like the anger in the country

467
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: was high and um. But when people noticed that he

468
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: wasn't standing for the anthem, uh, that then put him

469
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: in an They put him mic in front of his face,

470
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: and I think the country learned, Like Oldest Brothers brilliant,

471
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: he started through and right away he became like an

472
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: instant cult hero for people. And I talked to these families,

473
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: the family of Alton Sterling and Philandolka still and they

474
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: needed somebody like that. So like when they heard Colins

475
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: speak about their issue, like for them it mattered. And

476
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: when the season started and he took a knee in

477
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: an official NBA game, NFL game during the anthem, it

478
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: was a huge deal for families who had experienced police brutality,

479
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: it was and it was a huge deal I think

480
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: for people who were fighting against police brutality and fighting

481
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: for justice. And yet I don't think he did it

482
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: to sparkle, like he did it for himself, like that's

483
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: how he felt. And he had a couple of brothers

484
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: on the team, on the fort who did it with him.

485
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: Those guys were his friends. And yet I think I

486
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: hoped that other guys around the league, we're gonna do it.

487
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: I wish they had. If had everybody taken a need

488
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: and yeah, you couldn't do anything. And um, I never

489
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: imagined as he continued to do it throughout the year,

490
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: even as Donald Trump started talking about it, as Fox

491
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: News started talking about it, I didn't imagine it would

492
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: cost him his career, Like I I don't think he

493
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: thought that either. Um, I believe he would have done

494
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: it anyway. Like having talked to him through this, I

495
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: think even if he believed that was the consequence, I

496
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: think he still would have done it. But he didn't

497
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: believe that what's gonna happen. And he was twenty nine

498
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: years old. I mean, this is a guy who had

499
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: up you know. Yeah, this this was a guy who

500
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: who who still has to this day several records in

501
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: the NFL, and the notion that he would basically be

502
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: cut and never allowed back into the league seemed preposterous

503
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: and the price he's paid. I'm a lifelong NFL fan,

504
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: and I just couldn't to this day, I can't bring

505
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: myself to watch it because one, because I know this guy,

506
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: but the notion that this league has effectively ruined his

507
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: career in the prime of in the in his youth,

508
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: in the prime of his life, I can't get over it.

509
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: And so I'm stuck on that. It was frustrating to

510
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: me because when Trump and Fox Movie started getting involved,

511
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't he was protesting the flag. That was just

512
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: the vehicle he used to get his message across at

513
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: the time. He was protesting stuff that we all know

514
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: as an issue, but they turned it into you don't

515
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: respect our soldiers and this isn't that, And as many

516
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: people is, you know, they try to say, you know,

517
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: you're distracting. I would see tons of you know, bets

518
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,239
Speaker 1: across social media that are for CAP. Oh yeah, all

519
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: the time, all the time with CAP, you know, and

520
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: we serve so so so so. So it's really frustrating

521
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: me to see that the way the media was able

522
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: to spend that and make it him against Yeah, Well

523
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: they're masterful at that, man. And I think if if

524
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: Trump has one superpower, it's kind of diversion of if

525
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: there's one issue going on, Yeah, he's a slider hand magician. Man,

526
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: he's masterful at it. And I don't think anybody could

527
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: reasonably make the argument that this was him protesting the flag.

528
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: This I mean, but when you get loud voices to

529
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: say that's what it was, people bought it. Man. And

530
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think the NFL, the NFL Players Association,

531
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: even I mean, there were a lot of people that

532
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: I thought should have gone harder for him, that pretty

533
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: much yeld on him. And I had several brothers in

534
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: the league, mainly older veterans who had kind of already

535
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: made most of the money. They were gonna make talk

536
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: about the possibility of of doing deeper protests or trying

537
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: to get people to sit out the season, but it

538
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: just never picked up momentum, and um, you know, I

539
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: think I think a lot of players are gonna look

540
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: back on how they abandoned Cap at a time where

541
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: they should have stood with him. I don't think they'll

542
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: feel good about oportunity to do something real big. You know,

543
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: we're following steps, but they didn't take it back. And

544
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: you know it's I mean, but here I had, I

545
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: had a lot of guys and I had full on arguments.

546
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: Were brothers in the league when this was going down,

547
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: and I had guys tell me things like listen, just

548
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, I don't know him. He didn't,

549
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: he didn't talk to me about this before he decided

550
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: to do it. I had guys, as most guys in

551
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: the league don't have any guaranteed money and NFL. So

552
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: when guys saw, particularly in the second season, when he

553
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: was fully banned basically from the league, guys were spooked

554
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: and if they were going to do something, it probably

555
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: needed to be during that first season when he was

556
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: still in the game. But at the moment in which

557
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: players saw, oh, they're gonna ban him, they should have

558
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: responded in mass right away. They they wasn't really, you know,

559
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: And I mean I talked to guys that I felt.

560
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I had guys tell me, like Sean, if

561
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: I missed one paycheck, it's gonna jam up my whole

562
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: my whole family, my whole system. And guys when they

563
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: saw a guy of Collins caliber basically get banned, it

564
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: had the effect the NFL wanted it to have. It

565
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: spooked guys from following in those footsteps. Yeah, so the

566
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: only guys who did it, we're guys that were just different,

567
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: like Eric read Eric Rea is different, Uh, Marshawn Lynch,

568
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: like the guys are these guys, Kenny Stills, these guys,

569
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: they already were different before they got in the game.

570
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: And so those guys already kind of march to be

571
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: to their own drummer. The rest of the guys just

572
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: looked at him, was like, I can't take that risk.

573
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what the NFL wanted to happen. And uh,

574
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: it was a moment. Had half the league, a third

575
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: of the league just said, listen, we're not playing until

576
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: he comes back, it would have been one of the

577
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: biggest moments in sports history. And instead, brothers just kept

578
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: on playing. And uh, I get it, I understand it,

579
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: but there was a real missed opportunity there. You know,

580
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: what are you what are your thoughts about Jay Z

581
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: and his partnership with the NFL. You know, I was

582
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: someone initially looking in like j has always kind of

583
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: been the voice of the people for me. What I mean,

584
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: He's always been that guy so to me when people

585
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: are not gonna I was first when when it first

586
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: came out, I was saying, you know, we to effect change,

587
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: you have to be a part of change. We needed

588
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: to seat at the table, and to me, what that

589
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: seemed like was Jay had to seat at the table,

590
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 1: not knowing how much power what is actually actual job

591
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: or objective, was that he had to seat at the

592
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: table and we need to kind of sit back and

593
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: wait to see what happens. What are your thoughts thus

594
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: far on the whole situation, because it's been a while now. Yeah,

595
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean I love First off, I love jay Z.

596
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: I love him and just like you, like, I've admired

597
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: him for a very long time. And I've also I've

598
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: been behind closed doors and have seen him support families

599
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: and causes that people never knew about. And I mean

600
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: he raps about generosity being something he does in private,

601
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: and I've seen that. And and I think in any

602
00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: other circumstance, had Colin Kaepernick not been currently banned from

603
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: the league, if I saw Jay Z said oh, he's

604
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna become some type of partner here. If

605
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: if what the NFL did to Colin Kaepernick never happened,

606
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: I would have been like, oh, okay, yeah, but we

607
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: live in real life, Like Colin Kaepernick is currently actively

608
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: banned from this league, and Colin has never spoken out

609
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: about jay Z and that's not his way, but I

610
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: know many of us who are close to Colin felt

611
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: like I felt like jay Z played Colin directly. Jay

612
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: Z and Colin met several times throughout that previous year

613
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: j J Ward a Jersey to a Colin Jersey to

614
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: UH to a concert, and that whole time, he was

615
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: also a meeting with Roger Goodell and was jay Z was.

616
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: Jay Z had at least four meetings with Roger Goodell

617
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: over the year before he struck this deal. And so

618
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: I'm not listen, it's jay Z's business if he wants

619
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: to strike a deal, but that he was kind of

620
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: bargaining with Roger Goodell at the same time while he

621
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: was hanging out with Colin and defending him. It just

622
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: seemed underhanded to me, like I wish he would have

623
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: at Colin never knew about it, He never mentioned it

624
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: to Colin, never talked to him about it, and um,

625
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: I think it wouldn't have hurt the deal had he

626
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: just spoke with Colin and said, man, I'm gonna try

627
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: to go inside and impacted from the inside out, and

628
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: when I get there, here's what I hope to do.

629
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: What's your input. But I think Colin was blindsided by it,

630
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: and so like here's here's the thing, Like, even just

631
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: as well as I know the two of you, if

632
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: if a corporation had done you super I mean that's

633
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: in real life, if a corporation had done one of

634
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: you super dirty, I just can't rock with it. Like,

635
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: even as little as we've known each other, I care

636
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: about each of you enough to where if they did

637
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: you wrong, I'm gonna have to think twice about that.

638
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: And no corporation has gonna man worse than what the

639
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: NFL has done to Colin Kaepernet. And I think when

640
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: Jay Z when he had the press conference, I've I

641
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: felt like he it seemed like he hadn't done he

642
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: didn't do any prep for it, like he was surprised

643
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: by basic questions and his like some of his talking

644
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: points bothered me, Like it was like I don't even

645
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 1: know if he had thought this thing through. And when

646
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: you really look at as much as we know about

647
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: the deal, I don't even think the deal is that deep.

648
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: I think it's a music contract. It's uh, it's an

649
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: entertainment deal. And Jay's seeing Rock Nation get a little

650
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: bit of input on social justice stuff, but I'm not

651
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: seeing the fruits of that. And you know, there's always

652
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: this Tennessee to think, Like I hear people say like

653
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: jay Z's playing chess and we're all playing checkers, like

654
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: he's ten moves ahead of us. And if that's the case,

655
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to seeing what the results are gonna be.

656
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: But I'm not impressed. And I think Colin is the

657
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: loser and all of this, And if jay Z was

658
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: gonna make the deal, I wish it would have been

659
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: contingent upon Colin getting up. At least he hasn't even

660
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: gotten a try out, like anybody who says otherwise it's

661
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: a line. He hasn't gotten an offer or try out

662
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: or anything. But my thing is, how can we even

663
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: go to what's next without Colin? Right? I mean, because

664
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: the truth is there wouldn't There would not even be

665
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: a conversation about social justice, US some police brutality and

666
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: in the NFL without him, And so how I would

667
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: say sports as a whole. He changed the whole, but

668
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: he changed the landscape. And so to move to move

669
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: forward in that without him um is like an ego

670
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: move to And again, I think in any other circumstance,

671
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: I would have nothing but pride that he is now

672
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: a voice at the table. But this, this leaves Colin

673
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: out of a conversation that he should have been a

674
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: central part of. And you know, people say, well, Colin

675
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: sued the NFL. Eric read he sued the NFL. He's

676
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: back in the league. Colin could have a chance right now,

677
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: like he still literally is working out five days a

678
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: week and could still be picked up there. I mean,

679
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks in the NFL right now, you can't tell

680
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: him even if people want to say he's thirty three, No,

681
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: he just just and thirty or two. You can't tell

682
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: me at least, well, he's de minuted. You can't tell

683
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: me at least he can't be a backup. I think

684
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: he could probably start on some teams. I'm a Nighter fan.

685
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: I followed him and I was I was a huge

686
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: fan of what he was doing on the field. But

687
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: you can't literally look me in my eyes and say

688
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: there's not a spot for him in the league. Yeah,

689
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: And I don't think any credible commentator or athlete would

690
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: say otherwise. And so so, knowing that that's the case,

691
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: this idea that I can still will and deal with

692
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: this league on something different while they banned him. I

693
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: just have a problem with it, and I just I

694
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: think he was shortsighted. Like I think people were proud

695
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: that it seemed like jay Z was rocking with Colin

696
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: and then it just seemed like he took a different turn.

697
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: You know, tell me a little bit about the the

698
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: current situation, which is a very time sensitive Rodney Reid

699
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: and uh for fourteen days and counting. Yeah, he's supposed

700
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: to be. It was a horrible situation. Man. Um. There's

701
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: a man in in Texas outside of Austin, in a

702
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: town called Bastrip, thirty miles to the east of Austin,

703
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: who's been in prison for almost twenty three years. And

704
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen nine six, there was a young woman named

705
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: Stacy States who was sexually assaulted and murdered. Horrible and

706
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there, like her

707
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: family suffered tremendously from this loss. And right away people

708
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: believed that it was her fiancee who was a brutal

709
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: man known for domestic violence. And uh, he was a

710
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: police officer named Jimmy Finnel and he was the primary

711
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: suspect and nearly a year after Stacy Stice was killed,

712
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: Jimmy Jimmy Finnel instead Uh was no longer to suspect

713
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: and they arrested Rodney Reid. There was no proof that

714
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: he had anything to do with her murder whatsoever. And

715
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: if you've ever read the book or here in New

716
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: York seen the play To Kill a Mockingbird, it's kind

717
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: of the same story of of a white woman who

718
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: is brutalized by a white man, but a black man

719
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: takes the fall. And for twenty two plus years, Rodney

720
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: Read has declared his innocence and there's so much evidence

721
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: that exonerates him that the Innocence Project, who is probably

722
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: the most prestigious organization involving this, they turned down of

723
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: the cases that come in their way. When they take

724
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: on a case, they know a man is not guilty

725
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: and typically they have DNA evidence to exonerate that man,

726
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: so that the Innocence Project is on the case. Uh.

727
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: It sounds funny, but Dr Phil mcgrawl, Dr Phil is

728
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: on it, and Dr Phil did two whole episodes on it.

729
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: Dr Phil has declared that he also believes Rodney Read

730
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: is completely innocent and had nothing to do with this

731
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: there are some mechanisms that could potentially free Rodney Read

732
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: or at least delay the execution. The governor of Texas,

733
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: who's a deep conservative, has the power to state the execution.

734
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: There's a board of Parole there that could also at

735
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: least delay it or cancel the execution. His sentence could

736
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: be commuted, and he could just be given life in

737
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: prison and then at least live to be able to

738
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: fight through the appeals process. I think there's a high

739
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: likelihood that Rodney Reed will be executed, and all of

740
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: us are extract at the point in which we're two

741
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: weeks away. Uh, of course there's a high likelihood. We're

742
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: trying not to think about that, but uh, it's an

743
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: urgent situation. We've had over a million people signed a

744
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: petition at free Rodney Read dot com and uh, trying

745
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: to lobby people to intervene anyway they can. But it's

746
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: a who needed to hear this for that to happen

747
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: more in Congress hands now right, you feel, well, it's

748
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: not just Congress, it's of all people who are convicted

749
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: of crimes are convicted on the local and state level.

750
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: And what that means is Congress and even the president

751
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: have very little say in what they can do about

752
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: those cases. So the President of the United States, be

753
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: a Trump or Obama or anybody, they can pardon people

754
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: who have been convicted of federal crimes. But in this case,

755
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: Trump and Congress, the United States Congress, have very little

756
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: say and how they can help Rodney read. It's almost

757
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: all in the hands of officials there in Texas. Their governor,

758
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: their state legislature could at least make a statement or

759
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: do a vote, but even that wouldn't matter. A local

760
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: district attorney there in the county could remove the death

761
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: penalty and say we're calling on the death penalty be removed,

762
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: and just remove it. So it's really in the hands

763
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: of local conservatives in Texas. And in some ways that's

764
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: scary because I don't have a lot of influence with

765
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: conservatives in Texas, and and yet that's who we need

766
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: to influence. And so part of what we try to

767
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: do is just make this story go viral. And so

768
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: we've had people from uh from Rihanna to both of you,

769
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: to to other athletes and entertainers and supermodels. At the

770
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: end of at the end of the day, conservatives have

771
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: to care about it. And they've been saying for years

772
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: that they care about criminal justice reform, and this is

773
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: their opportunity to kind of prove it. And fourteen days

774
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: it's already cutting it way too close. All of his

775
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: appeals are not exhausted, but it's it's a it's in

776
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: a dangerous position right now, for sure. I think that it.

777
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't take a scientist to see that. You know,

778
00:45:54,600 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: we live in a race driven country. Oh yeah, for

779
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: good and bad reasons. Um. And so it almost seems

780
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: like what you're doing is obviously a daily thing, Like

781
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: how do you find time? How do you really like

782
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: when you take on all this stuff? I mean, because

783
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: you're you're educating me daily on your post, whether it

784
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: be a continuous post about one thing or one thing

785
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: now and two things later tonight. Like how do you

786
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: find all the time too to do all that? And

787
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: with some My life's a mess, you know when people

788
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: ask me, is that I don't have a pretty answer

789
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: to it, Like I work too much from Like I

790
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: get up a most mornings of four thirty or five

791
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: in the morning, I have my own daily podcast, I

792
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: go to the studio super early. Um. I have a

793
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: few hours each day where I'm just spending time with

794
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: my wife and kids. But outside of those few hours

795
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: and some rest at night, I mean, I'm I'm pushing

796
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: hard something. I'm working twelve or fourteen hours a day

797
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:08,439
Speaker 1: every day. On most days, I feel disappointed because there's

798
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: somebody who asked me for help and I'm just not

799
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: able to do it. I get, on the average day,

800
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: hundreds of emails of people who said, can you can

801
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: you help my family? Like this week, I've gotten emails

802
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: from people all over the country who said, my father,

803
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: my son is on death row? Can you can you

804
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: look into his case? Can you do for my son

805
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: what you're doing for Rodney Reid? And what breaks my

806
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: heart is I can't. I just I'm only able to

807
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: do but so much in a day. And part of

808
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: what I try to do is build systems and organizations

809
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: that allowed me to impact people the best I can,

810
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: but for me to develop other leaders who can also

811
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: do what I do. So we have an organization called

812
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: Real Justice that helps elect district attorney is all over

813
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,959
Speaker 1: the country. We have an organization called the Action Pack

814
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: that's helping lead this piece with Rodney read So we

815
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: have almost twenty staff members working on this Rodney Reed

816
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: case right now, so you see me, But behind the scenes,

817
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: they're twenty of us and that's it took twenty of

818
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: us working around the clock to force this, you know,

819
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: into the mainstream. But it's hard to manage. It's it's

820
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: hard to balance that with family. It's hard to balance

821
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: that with marriage. And when everything is going well in

822
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: my life, it's like it's beautiful and good, but if

823
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: one thing goes wrong, Uh, it could be a mess.

824
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: And I mean I have all the same problems everybody

825
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: else has. My wife and I argue like cass and dogs. Uh.

826
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes my kids feel like I'm super present and then

827
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: other days I'm working so hard that I'm not there

828
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: the way they need me to be. So it's it's

829
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,919
Speaker 1: hard to buy. And do you feel pressure, Like you said,

830
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: you're getting a hundred two always have to do something

831
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: like I know that you want to, But do you

832
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: feel the pressure because now you are known as like

833
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: I said earlier, like the go to guy for our

834
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: culture for this. I mean I do feel the pressure. Um,

835
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: I accept I accepted, but I feel the I feel

836
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 1: the pressure in the sense that there's so much injustice

837
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: and there's only so little I can do about each case.

838
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: I I bumped into a woman a couple of days

839
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: ago who said, and she and broke my heart. You know,

840
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: she said, Sean, I've emailed you forty times, and I

841
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: literally said, just pull up your phone and show you know,

842
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: like I believed her, but I've never seen this even

843
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: and she's sure enough pulled it up, and she had

844
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: emailed me dozens of times asking me to help her

845
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: in this case. And I hate that that's that's how

846
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: we're doing this, that there's so few people to go

847
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: to that we I hate that we don't have the systems.

848
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: I hate that there's so much injustice. Like I have

849
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: kids who tell me all the time they save my

850
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: email address in their phone. I'm talking about yeah, I'm

851
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 1: talking about strangers who saved my email address and just

852
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: in case they need to send me something hard I've seen.

853
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: I've seen viral videos of police brutality all over the

854
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 1: country and I'll hear somebody in the background say send

855
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: that to Shaun King and and so all of that.

856
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: It's a it is a degree of pressure. And I

857
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: try my best every day too not to keep up

858
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: with the grind of it. But I I try to

859
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: be as productive as I can. It's it's a lot.

860
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: How do you handle, um, the level of recognition and

861
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: fame that have come with us? You know obviously we

862
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: so you were honored that Rihanna's uh Matt gala um.

863
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: How do you handle because I know, like I said,

864
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: you're doing it for the right reasons. But you know,

865
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: when you do things for the right reasons, stuff happens

866
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: around you, and this happens just to be you know,

867
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: obviously your name continuing to grow, your face being more recognizable.

868
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: How do you handle that? Well, I mean, first and foremost,

869
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: and we were talking about it earlier. I have a

870
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: big fan. I have five kids, and so like my

871
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: family unit is healthy and strong and so as as

872
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: long as that unit, they're like, has my back and

873
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: it's rocking with me, I'm good. Like, say, my wife's

874
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: gonna kill me for saying all our business, but my

875
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: life is so fragile, Like say my wife and I

876
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: have fallen out, then then life gets harder for me

877
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: because it's like I'm already doing all this work and

878
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: it's hard at home and just just I just want

879
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: to be on the record if if life is a mess,

880
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: at home. It's normally my fault. Like, yeah, just to

881
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: be clear, right right, there's rarely a problem in my

882
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: world that my wife calls it's normally me. But um,

883
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: the fame is definitely causes a lot of consequences. It

884
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: puts a lot of pressure on my wife and kids.

885
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: People recognize them in public. I'm a I'm a hermit generally,

886
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: like I'm I don't go out much. I'm in the

887
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: office doing the work at home. Um. You know. I

888
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: also isolate myself from a lot of ugliness, like I

889
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: see you guys sometimes like battling people in the comments. Oh, man,

890
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: I gotta stay out of comments man like. I don't

891
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: know how you do it. Man, Like I can't be

892
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: in the car, I can't even the comments in my

893
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: world are so ugly. I can't even look at him

894
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: man and so, But what I do is I kind

895
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: of protect myself from the ugliness of it all. It's hard, Oh,

896
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: it is, it is. It's it's it's something you learn

897
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: over time. And if I listened, I have enough people

898
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: in my world, my wife included, who tell me the

899
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: ugly truth about myself, Like if I make a mistake,

900
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: I have people who can school me on it and

901
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: tell me about it, that I don't necessarily need to

902
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: listen to strangers and haters and all the other stuff.

903
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: I have people in my world who tell me the good, bad,

904
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: and ugly. Yeah, I get it all. I get it

905
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: from people who actually people who are brutal but love me.

906
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: And so because of that, I'm not super swayed by

907
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: the hate or the anger of people who don't even

908
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:44,479
Speaker 1: know me. Yeah, well, at least they don't mean anything

909
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: to me, you know. And and you know, it's not

910
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: when people have legitimate critiques of something that I say,

911
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: or that's one thing, but when people are just being ugly.

912
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: I have gotten to the point this isn't even it's

913
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: this isn't even really healthy. But I've gotten to the

914
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: point where I'm kind of numb to it um where

915
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: the ugliness just doesn't impact me at all. It's not

916
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: because I don't care, but I've kind of flipped off

917
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: a switch where I just can't allow that stuff to

918
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: get to me. But I was telling him, like, the

919
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: big problem today is people can't have a conversation and

920
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: disagree without disrespecting each other. That's a big problem. Or

921
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: or online when you disagree with somebody, people immediately perceive

922
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: it as disrespect and then it then it can spiral

923
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: into that and it's like we were just we were

924
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: so sometimes when I like, I hardly even disagree with

925
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: people online publicly anymore because people would take it somewhere where.

926
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: But when I do, I'll have to like it could

927
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: be say it's one of you. I may message you

928
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: privately like I hope you know here's what I'm actually thinking.

929
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,919
Speaker 1: But now we're in a space where it's it's hard

930
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: to disagree. Man, sweet of idiots for voices like Charles

931
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: Berkley says in the social media space, tell me what

932
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: I saw your wife to take over your handle one day,

933
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 1: um defending you and then also just saying how hard

934
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: all this ship is on the on the family dynamic

935
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: side of it. You know, you're out here being a

936
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: Kate crusader for the for the world, but then, like

937
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 1: you've touched on, like your family is obviously most important

938
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: to you, Tell me how hard being able to balance

939
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: both is, Because I mean, I was someone who went

940
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: through a public divorce and still had like I said,

941
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: we talked about it on the shows like and you're

942
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: someone to us in the space now as you're kind

943
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: of professional in this field. So when all the ship

944
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: is still going on that's rough at home or family,

945
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: you still have to be you still gotta be on.

946
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: So tell me what that what that dynamic like and

947
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: the weight that brings to your family. You know what

948
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: my my wife and I five years ago, when Black

949
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement first started, I started getting death threats

950
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: right away, like on the phone, in the mail, like

951
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: we were we were reporting them to the police of

952
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: the FBI. Uh. We were getting people who were coming

953
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: to our home, to our children's school, and and he

954
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: got back quick and so right away, all the way

955
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: back in we decided that my wife would basically disappear

956
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: from social media, that my kids would not be on

957
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: social media, just to protect them. But it unintentionally built

958
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: something that we didn't really see coming. As people began

959
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: criticizing me, they didn't understand the implications that they would

960
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: have for my whole family. And so people be on

961
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 1: social there two or three lines of people tell about

962
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: me all the time. One is that I'm raising money

963
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: from families and I'm stealing from these families, which is

964
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: a crime, like literally it's a federal crime. There are

965
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: people you may remember, there were these people who claim

966
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: they were raising money on go fund me for this

967
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 1: homeless man, but on the low kept the money. Those

968
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: two people are imprisoned right like they are. They are imprisoned.

969
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: They each got ten years. And every time I raise

970
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: money for families, I never see it. It doesn't come

971
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 1: through my accounts. It goes directly to these families every

972
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: time I do it. People I'm talking about real verified

973
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: blue check accounts are saying he's stealing this money. Well,

974
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: what they don't understand is when you say I'm stealing

975
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: the money, people then look at my wife like, oh,

976
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: you're stealing the money. Oh you're aware that he's stealing

977
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: the money. And so she's a professional woman, she's an

978
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: executive here in New York, and people literally start asking

979
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: her about this. And so as people lie about me,

980
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: they just don't understand that my kids get asked about

981
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: this stuff. And we live in this culture where it's

982
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: so easy to just post a random lie on social

983
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: media that they don't understand the ripple effect. And it

984
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: had gotten so bad and had boiled so far out

985
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: of control that my wife, who doesn't who at the time,

986
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: didn't have any social media accounts. Was like, listen, let

987
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: me say what I have to say. And it was

988
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: and it was messy and emotional and all of yeah yeah,

989
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah she was. People don't understand that.

990
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: While it's easy for them to get on there and

991
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: say Sean is stealing from families, Sean is a white

992
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: man pretending to be black. As people say these weird things,

993
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: it has real implications with my family, and um, she

994
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: just gotten fed up and so she so now she

995
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: is public. She opened up her own Twitter account, her

996
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: own Instagram account, in part just so people understand, like, hey,

997
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,959
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a real person with my own views and perspectives.

998
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 1: But it's it's hard man, for sure. Five beautiful children,

999
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: And you touched on it briefly from what are the

1000
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: age with the age range from from six to twenty.

1001
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: Our oldest is in college and our youngest is in

1002
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: elementary school. What are your knowing how out front you

1003
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: are with the work you do? What are your some

1004
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: of your concerns obviously you know on a day to

1005
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: day basis with them. Well, men, so much, so much

1006
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: of what I do I do for my kids and

1007
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: over these past five years because we had decided like

1008
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: we wouldn't post about them so much. Uh. I never

1009
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: really shared how much that I do what I do

1010
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: to fight for them, to advocate for them, hopefully to

1011
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: create a better world for them. Um. But we go

1012
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: out of our way, like we don't even post pictures

1013
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: of the kids on social media anymore, and in part

1014
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: because the threats and all of that remains. So even

1015
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: though we talk about them, UM, we do little things

1016
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 1: like don't post full pictures of their face and don't

1017
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: say where they go to school. Uh, in part because

1018
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: I know I can't be there with them to protect them,

1019
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: you know. So we haven't said where our daughter goes

1020
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: to college, and so little steps that we've taken to

1021
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: kind of protect ourselves. Um. But we have other things

1022
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: that we do to keep each other safe. I mean,

1023
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: we're we're a close family. But UM, I also try

1024
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: to keep the kids off of social media, and I

1025
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: tell them, like, please don't search my name on Twitter,

1026
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: don't search my name on Google. These are kids, like

1027
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: they're gonna do it anyway. And it's to the point

1028
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: now where even if they search their own names, they

1029
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: see people talking about me mentioning them, even my little kids.

1030
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: And uh, it's a it's a weird climate, man, Yeah,

1031
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: it's crazy. How do you you know something that Jack

1032
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: and I as fathers have always had to work on

1033
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: as we both came from the streets. You know, I

1034
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: got it out the gutter, but our kids will never

1035
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,919
Speaker 1: have to. How do you compared to how you're growing

1036
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: up now? And then almost the safety environment you have

1037
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: to deal with your kids? How do you how because

1038
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: they probably can't do things that other kids can do.

1039
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: It's tricky, you know, Like I didn't. I didn't grow

1040
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: up in the gutter, but I grew up rough. You know,

1041
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: we were we were like a half a step above poor,

1042
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: and and I didn't even really I never really even

1043
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: understood how broke we were coming up. And you don't know,

1044
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, and and so I didn't understand that. And

1045
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: and then I experienced I experienced a lot of hell

1046
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: and trauma growing up. And yet all of that shaped me,

1047
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: it shaped you, It shaped you. Like as I said earlier,

1048
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: I don't even know that you would know who I

1049
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: am had I not been through all of that. And

1050
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: so now our kids, we protect them from all of that,

1051
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: and it has its own implications like, uh, it's you

1052
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: often see the children of successful people sometimes lack drive

1053
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: or determination. So there are little things that we try

1054
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: to do to still help our kids be as determined

1055
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: as we were, even though they don't have the same obstacles. Um,

1056
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: you know, like just making sure that even though they

1057
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: they are the children of somebody who is well known,

1058
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: that hey, whatever you get, you're gonna have to. Like

1059
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: if if my kids interviewed for a job, I'm not

1060
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: calling in advance and saying, hey, I'm at Shawn King,

1061
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: can you help my daughter get the job? You know,

1062
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: like I tell they got an interview for it, Like, um,

1063
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: our daughter. We have a daughter who's a senior in

1064
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: high school and she's applying for college, and as much

1065
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: as possible, I'm trying to see her do it without me.

1066
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm there to help with the applications, but I want

1067
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: her to know that when she gets there, it's like, oh,

1068
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: I earned this. And so it's hard when you grew

1069
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: up rough, it's hard to duplicate the environment that helped

1070
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: make us who we are. And so it's it's tricky

1071
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: because part of how we became who we are is

1072
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: that we had to overcome so many obstacles. Our kids

1073
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 1: will have their own obstacles and uh yeah, so we

1074
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: just I'm trying to see them through it. And you know,

1075
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: it depends, like even my youngest kids, they don't even

1076
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: really know what I do. I try to protect. So

1077
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: our daughter who was six, we have a daughter who's ten.

1078
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: They I don't I don't even they don't know about

1079
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: Rodney Reid. You know, they don't know that I'm fighting

1080
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: for this man who might die in two weeks. In part,

1081
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 1: I just don't want them to have that. The child

1082
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: brain is not even able to process some of these things.

1083
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: So I mean, I try to even protect my kids

1084
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: from some of the worst knowledge and information that I

1085
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: see every day. What age do you feel with your kids, because,

1086
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: like you said, you do have something in college and

1087
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: headed to college. Do you share some of what you do? Well? Man,

1088
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: We people ask us that all the time because there's

1089
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: a there's so much horrible information from videos of police

1090
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: brutality and these stories that we're sharing. There's this video

1091
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna share later today of of a shooting

1092
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: that and normally when I share a video like that,

1093
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: a family has asked me to share it. I'm not

1094
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 1: sharing it because I want you to say, I don't

1095
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: even want to see it. I'm not sharing because I

1096
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: want you to see it. The family knows that it

1097
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: getting seen, it's gonna give them leverage to negotiate with

1098
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 1: police or district attorneys and um, so we kind of

1099
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: have a sliding scale. Like our daughters who are twenty

1100
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: and seven, team, they're gonna see everything, whether I share

1101
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: it with him or not. So I try to. I

1102
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: try to explain things to them and break it down.

1103
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: My son, who we have four girls and a boy,

1104
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: and my son who's in the middle, he's thirteen. He's

1105
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: he's a very sensitive boy, and so I may describe

1106
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: the basics of a situation to him. But even he's

1107
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: in eighth grade going into high school, he just couldn't

1108
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: handle seeing these things. And and that's okay. Like my

1109
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: wife doesn't look at my wife doesn't My wife doesn't

1110
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: read the articles I write. She doesn't look at the

1111
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: post that I make because it's too much for her.

1112
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: And she supports me. But I know that some of

1113
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: this stuff is too much for my son who's thirteen.

1114
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: Now my girls who are ten and six. Uh, I

1115
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: sheltered them from it all. Every now and then they

1116
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: may catch that I'm doing like they know that I'm

1117
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: that I fight for people, you know, they know that

1118
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help people, but I try not to.

1119
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: Like some people want their kids to see it all,

1120
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:13,479
Speaker 1: and that's dangerous. Actually, kids don't have without explanation every

1121
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: step and then, like you said, as a child, it's

1122
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: hard to fathom how cold this world really is and

1123
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: what happens. Studies show that when young kids see, particularly

1124
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: police brutality, they immediately think it's going to happen to them.

1125
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 1: And and I don't want my kids to have It's

1126
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: not that I want them to be ignorant of the danger.

1127
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: We school our kids the best we can, but I

1128
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: don't want them to be having nightmares or unnatural stress

1129
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: of the danger. So even with the safety risk against me,

1130
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: like when I travel a lot of town, we have

1131
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 1: security at the house. Our older kids know we have

1132
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: security outside of the house, but I don't even want

1133
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: the younger kids to know that there is a risk here,

1134
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: that they that we need somebody standing at the front door.

1135
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: And so we we kind of have a age age

1136
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 1: sliding scale where the little kids know next to nothing,

1137
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: and depend on how old they are, we share more

1138
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: and more. What's the best part about being a dad?

1139
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about the tough side and they

1140
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: tell me decided to make you smile. Oh man, I

1141
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: love being a dad, you know, I was saying, Jackie,

1142
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: I've been I've been a dad my whole adult life,

1143
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: and you have to and uh, my wife and I

1144
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: were nineteen and twenty years old when we were Yeah,

1145
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,959
Speaker 1: we were in college and young and dumb and broke

1146
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: and struggling and all of that. But I've been a

1147
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: dad my whole adult life. So I literally don't know

1148
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: adulthood without being a dad, Like it's all. It's all

1149
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: I've ever been. And so, um, I love spending time

1150
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: with the kids like one they're you know, before you

1151
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: have kids, you assume they're gonna be like you in

1152
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 1: some kind of way. All five of my kids are

1153
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: totally different from each other. They're very different than me.

1154
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: They have skills that I've never had, gifts that I've

1155
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 1: never had. So it's beautiful just to see them becoming

1156
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: their own unique people. Um. They've taken on some of

1157
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 1: the things like I love movies and sports, and they've

1158
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: taken on the love of movies and sports. Um, my

1159
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,160
Speaker 1: thirteen year old son and I are playing the NBA

1160
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: Fantasy League together this year. That's the first time I've

1161
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: done fantasy basketball and ten or fifteen years. But I

1162
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure that we were engaging on

1163
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 1: some kind of level. And so just little things like that. Man,

1164
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 1: But um, they don't see me at all when they

1165
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: come home. They don't see me as famous, and they

1166
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 1: they never would like, Yeah, I'm just dad, and so

1167
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 1: home for me is normal. I'm taking out the garbage

1168
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: and cleaning the house and and turning on the alarm

1169
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: and so home is like the place where there's normalcy

1170
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 1: for all of us. And uh, and it's a beautiful thing.

1171
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: So I mean again, I know that no matter how

1172
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: crazy the world is, that I got this unit at

1173
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: home that has my back and it's gonna rock with

1174
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: me no matter what. What do you do? I mean,

1175
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: your your job seems to never end. What do you

1176
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 1: do to unplug and decompress? How do you chill out

1177
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: or do you I don't chill out much like no

1178
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 1: days or no certain times where I'm not doing nothing

1179
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: right now, Well, I do a couple of things, like one,

1180
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: I love what I do. As hard as it is,

1181
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: as hard as fighting for justice for Rodney Reid, as

1182
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: hard as all that stuff is. I do it because

1183
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: I love doing it. So even even if I'm doing

1184
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: it late, like I was, I pulled even on the

1185
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 1: way over here today, I pulled the car over because

1186
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: I had to respond to something. But it's what I

1187
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: want to do. I chose this life. It's how I

1188
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: want to live my life. So even know the work

1189
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: is hard and it's a grind, it doesn't wear me down,

1190
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: Like I look forward to being able to to help

1191
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: people to tell these stories. So my work it never

1192
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: quite feels like work. And people say that, but I

1193
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: mean I hope. I hope that for everybody if you

1194
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: can love what you're doing in your life, and that's

1195
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 1: true for me, man, Like everybody doesn't get to do that.

1196
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: Like my mother made light bulbs for forty years, and

1197
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: I talked with her. I mean, she told me that

1198
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: there wasn't a day she made a light bulb she

1199
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: liked it, you know, like she hated all forty years

1200
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: of she said some day she liked the people there.

1201
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: She was like, no, I never enjoyed making the light bulbs.

1202
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: You know, it was nothing in it. And I hope

1203
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: for my kids and other for anybody who's watching, I

1204
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: hope that they get to do something that they love.

1205
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: But I watched sports. I'm a I'm a huge NBA

1206
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: fan everything. I'm a Nets guy. We live in Brooklyn.

1207
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: Some room for the Nets. We're rooting for the Nets

1208
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: before they signed Kyrie and k D. And he was

1209
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: when I was there. Oh yeah, man, we've been loving

1210
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: We've been loving Nets man. No, we love no. We

1211
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: We've been here in Brooklyn, were in Brooklyn for almost

1212
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: four years now, and uh we love the Nets man,

1213
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: and like it's just our hometown team. But I mean

1214
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: we have all types of teams that we've moved all

1215
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: over the country. So when we lived in California, we

1216
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: were rooting for Golden State and rooting for the Lakers.

1217
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: We lived in Atlanta for ten years, we were rooting

1218
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: for the Hawks. So I'm a homer. Like wherever I live,

1219
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: I kind of root for the home team. And uh,

1220
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 1: as I grew up in Kentucky where we didn't have

1221
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 1: a protein and so we go to the movies all

1222
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,719
Speaker 1: the time, and the type of movies you like because

1223
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: you have a certain line of work that you try

1224
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: to get away from that and just or what the

1225
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 1: tricky the hardest thing that sucks is because we have

1226
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: a six year old in the house, Like it's hard

1227
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 1: to take the whole family to the movie and see

1228
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: something that I actually like, you know, like, um so

1229
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: me and my wife go out Like I mean, we

1230
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: see it all man. I mean I go to the

1231
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: movies three or four times a month, and uh so,

1232
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 1: whatever is out, we try to check it out. And uh,

1233
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm watching, Uh, I watched a couple of shows on

1234
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:20,719
Speaker 1: iTunes and Netflix. I'm watching this new show, uh yellow Stone.

1235
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: It's a like a western with Kevin Costner, and I've

1236
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: been checking that out and people ask me, like what

1237
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: when do I watch it? Like if I'm on the subway,

1238
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: I put my uh put my headphones on and steal

1239
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes there to watch it. But I

1240
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: mean I try to. I try to decompress when I can. Um.

1241
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: You know, we travel as much as we can, Like

1242
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 1: we'll we'll go somewhere during the Christmas holiday. That's at

1243
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: least once a year. We take a big family trip

1244
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: together and get away and um. Last year we went

1245
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: to Hawaii and we go to Jamaica or something like that,

1246
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: just to just to go somewhere where the weather is

1247
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 1: warmer than it is here in New York. Now, do

1248
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: you are you? Are you off? Are you offline when

1249
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 1: you're on family vacation? Still gotta work? Well? I try

1250
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: to be um like we um. This past Christmas, we

1251
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: went to Hawaii and my whole family made me promise

1252
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: that I would stay offline. And you may remember this

1253
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: young girl named Jasmine Barnes, a seven year old girl

1254
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: in Houston was shot and killed. And uh, I had

1255
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: been away for two or three days and people started

1256
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 1: asking me if I would help find who killed this

1257
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 1: young girl. And my family was like, don't you do that?

1258
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 1: You know, my wife and my kids. And I kept

1259
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,679
Speaker 1: my promise for a couple of days, and then finally

1260
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: people who were very close to the family reached out

1261
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:49,680
Speaker 1: to me, and I interrupted my vacation and time with

1262
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: family to do it. And uh, I wish I hadn't,

1263
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, Like that's a dilemma that I'm in all

1264
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: the time where my family needed me to just say

1265
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: no even though people really wanted and needed me to

1266
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 1: help in that situation. Your heart is so big you

1267
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: can't and just only so long. But I jammed myself

1268
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 1: up though, you know, like, um, you know, I ended

1269
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 1: up hurting my family because I basically stopped my My

1270
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,120
Speaker 1: family was still on vacation before the final two or

1271
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: three days. All I did was throw myself into this case.

1272
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:28,120
Speaker 1: And uh, I learned a lot from that, Like I

1273
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: hope this holiday when I go away, I might just

1274
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 1: I might not even take my fund. But I'm plugged

1275
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: from the world. You gotta reboot, man, you gotta be

1276
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: So where do we go from here? Like what is

1277
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: your message? Like we're I mean, obviously, you know, with

1278
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 1: with the presidency and in the in the state of race,

1279
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 1: what it is people bother me when they say it's

1280
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 1: not about everything. A lot of stuff is centered around race.

1281
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 1: Where do you think we go from here as a

1282
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: culture as well? And I do. I do have hope,

1283
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: And uh, even with all the ugliness that I see

1284
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: every day, there are a couple of reasons why I

1285
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: have hope. Like no matter how ugly things get in

1286
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: the world, and we're talking about the world that can

1287
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 1: that can get deep and dirty and ugly, We're talking

1288
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: about the world that had the Holocaust, the world that

1289
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:20,320
Speaker 1: had the Transatlantic slave trade. We're talking about the world

1290
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 1: Like when people say, Sean, can it get worse? My

1291
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 1: answer is always, oh, hell yeah, it can get a

1292
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: lot worse. But anytime things have gotten horrible and ugly

1293
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: all throughout history, I'm a historian by training. My undergraduate

1294
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: and graduate degrees are in history. People always bounce back.

1295
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: Societies always recover, no matter how ugly, how dirty, how horrible,

1296
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: how desperate things can get. The pendulum it may swing

1297
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: one way, but it will always swing the other way. Now,

1298
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: what I need to explain to people is that that

1299
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: pendulum illustration has limitations. It doesn't people swing get back.

1300
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: And so whatever we're gonna see next in this world,

1301
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: Like when we think about slavery in America that lasted

1302
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: for hundreds of years. People fought to end that, Like

1303
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 1: it didn't just end like any just say we're done,

1304
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 1: Like there was a civil war for that. And so

1305
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: whatever it is, if it's voting rights, if it's civil rights,

1306
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: whatever future it is we want to see in this country,

1307
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: we will only see what we fight for. And I

1308
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: try to explain to people whatever future it is, that

1309
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: we want for this country. We have to organize ourselves

1310
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: into it. Otherwise it's just not gonna happen. And I

1311
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: wish it. I wish it just things got better naturally,

1312
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 1: but that's just not how it goes. And UM, you

1313
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 1: think we're heading in the right direction. No, No, I don't. UM,

1314
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm confident that we're not. I'm actually I'm not an alarmist.

1315
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think these next couple

1316
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: of years could be real rough for us. What you're

1317
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 1: gonna see next next month and over the next two

1318
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: or three months, the impeachment of the president is gonna happen.

1319
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: Those proceedings. This isn't theoretical. The the impeachment proceedings are

1320
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 1: going to move forward. I believe the president will be

1321
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: impeached in the House, and I think that could get

1322
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 1: real volatile. Um. I think the election could be very

1323
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: volatile and dangerous. I I I could imagine a scenario

1324
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: where Donald Trump loses the election and decides not to

1325
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 1: leave the office because he thinks it's not official or

1326
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: not legitimate. Um. We're already in a scenario where the

1327
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 1: Congress has subpoenaed a llegal subpoena has subpoenaed people to testify,

1328
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: and they just said no. Like there are people in

1329
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 1: prison right now for failure to comply to a subpoena.

1330
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: You go to jail for that, and so we're already

1331
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: at a showdown. I think the United States right now

1332
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 1: is in a much more fragile place than we understand. Um,

1333
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: i'm I'm deeply concerned, and I um, I hear not

1334
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:17,599
Speaker 1: just the president but others even talk about civil war

1335
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 1: and violence and that type of stuff. It concerns me, man,

1336
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes me, uh, it makes me concerned

1337
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: about what's next. And I don't know, I think, Um,

1338
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 1: I think things will get worse before they get better.

1339
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: And I don't think. I don't think all of our

1340
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: problems are just solved even by this one election. Um.

1341
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: In Donald Trump's defense, many of our greatest problems in

1342
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: this country, he didn't create them. And so even if

1343
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: he does, even if he does lose, even if he

1344
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 1: does leave the office peacefully, they're still mass incarceration. He

1345
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 1: didn't build that. You know, there's still issues of poverty

1346
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 1: and other things. So now i'm i'm, I'm deeply concerned

1347
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: about where we go next. And I say that as

1348
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: somebody who studies it day in and day out. Um,

1349
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: I think we've grown a bit used to things that

1350
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: we probably should never have grown used to. And there's

1351
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,560
Speaker 1: some things that have been normalized in this country that

1352
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: that are deeply problematic. So I'm worried about these next

1353
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: few months. Um, I'm watching carefully, but I'm I'm not

1354
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: even quick to get nervous. But it's a it's a

1355
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: weird time. Yeah, it's Um, I'm friends with several people

1356
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 1: who are in Congress, and even Congress people understand this.

1357
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: We're walking on thin ice right now. Like say, say

1358
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: those people who have been subpoenaed, Say Congress then threatens

1359
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 1: to jail those people, but say those people then say, well,

1360
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,639
Speaker 1: you're not taking me to jail. What's gonna what's gonna

1361
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 1: happen here? Like how what? What are we then gonna

1362
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: force them into in cart? Like I don't know, like

1363
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: even people in Congress. No, it's like it's untrued territory. Yeah,

1364
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: I mean typically you get a subpoena, your show up, Yeah,

1365
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:14,639
Speaker 1: and if you don't, it's simple, you go to jail.

1366
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: And so we're testing those norms and and so for

1367
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: the first time we realized like, oh, there wasn't really

1368
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: a system in place to enforce the rules on the

1369
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: presidency and on the administration, and daily Trump in the

1370
01:20:33,479 --> 01:20:38,600
Speaker 1: administration are pushing those boundaries in a way that I

1371
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 1: think are gonna be hard to dial back in one

1372
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 1: way or the other. What would be your message to

1373
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: the youth to get out there and and you know,

1374
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 1: it's cool to talk about it. I'm not talking about you.

1375
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 1: I'm talking about outside of social media, to talk about

1376
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,080
Speaker 1: it and and do that. How can they be What

1377
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: would be your message to make them be a part

1378
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 1: of it, you know, really make their voice count. What

1379
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: would you say that that? You know what, man, today's

1380
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: generation of young people are already way more active than

1381
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,600
Speaker 1: we were when we were quit. I was explaining to

1382
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 1: my kids just last night, when I was there were

1383
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 1: no activists at my high school, Like I didn't even

1384
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,560
Speaker 1: know that was an option, Like you could care, but

1385
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:20,360
Speaker 1: you there there were no activists at my high school.

1386
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:24,839
Speaker 1: Like that's not how we saw the world. And today,

1387
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: even my daughter who was in college or in high school,

1388
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: they see themselves as activists and not just because they're

1389
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: my children. Like here in New York. My kids, even

1390
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,799
Speaker 1: my kids in elementary middle school, have been to marches

1391
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: and protests like we didn't. We didn't do that growing up.

1392
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: So this generation, I I trust them more than I

1393
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: trust our generation. Like I think they understand the danger

1394
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 1: a little more in part because they also and I

1395
01:21:57,800 --> 01:21:59,639
Speaker 1: don't even mean this as a knock, because they don't

1396
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 1: have to pay the bills, because they don't have all

1397
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 1: the responsibilities as adults. They get to see the world

1398
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 1: for for all that it is and isn't in a

1399
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:14,120
Speaker 1: way that's just very different. And so like there are

1400
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 1: days where I there might be a protest in the city,

1401
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,720
Speaker 1: but because I have a nine to five, I just

1402
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: can't go. Well, kids don't have that same burden in

1403
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: that sense, and uh, they're laying it on the line

1404
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: man like I am on most days more inspired by them.

1405
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 1: And uh I could tell you, I mean there their

1406
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: kids fighting for uh, fighting against the climate crisis, fighting

1407
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: against police brutality, gun violence. That I would say, are

1408
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 1: they are the ones leading on it. In most rooms

1409
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: that I go in, I'm the old man in the room.

1410
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 1: Like I've been in rooms I'm talking about with like

1411
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 1: the best leaders in the country. My in my brain,

1412
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 1: I haven't started thinking of myself as old Jet, and

1413
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: I realized right away it's like, oh, they think I'm old,

1414
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: like people calling me Mr. King or Uncle Seawn. It's like,

1415
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: hold hold on, hold on. And I realized it's like

1416
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,400
Speaker 1: you gotta think, how did you see somebody who was

1417
01:23:17,479 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: forty when you were eighteen when you were Yeah, you

1418
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 1: saw And so I realized it's like, listen, these young people.

1419
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm proud of them. They in the election, they voted

1420
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: more than any young generation in American history. So they're

1421
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 1: not perfect. Um. I used to think when we were kids,

1422
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:44,360
Speaker 1: I used to think that racism would pretty much die

1423
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 1: out when all the old racists died. But so so,

1424
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: even though I'm proud of young people, some of the

1425
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 1: worst racists in America now are teenagers and young adults,

1426
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 1: and they full on white supremacists and neo Nazis. Don't

1427
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 1: know why, Yeah, I couldn't couldn't break it down if

1428
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: you sat here with him and nothing like why don't

1429
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: you like right? Because my mom and dad told me,

1430
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Well, Shaun King ever feel accomplished? Um,

1431
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, you know I'm I'm always pushing it.

1432
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 1: You know. Um, I used to there's a writer of

1433
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 1: TNA He's Coats, and I used to read Tona, He's

1434
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: the coat stuff. I used to think he was super pessimistic.

1435
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 1: He used to talk about how things like racism and

1436
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 1: stuff would always be here, and I, as a young optimist,

1437
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:37,640
Speaker 1: I would see that and be like, man, why is

1438
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: he so negative? And as I've gotten a little older,

1439
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: I've grown to think a lot of the worst parts

1440
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: of this country they'll change their shape and form, but

1441
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,639
Speaker 1: they'll always be here. So I think, to the day

1442
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:54,519
Speaker 1: I die, I'm gonna always be fighting back against injustice. Um.

1443
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,320
Speaker 1: You know, there are there are single battles that I

1444
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:02,799
Speaker 1: hope we win. Today is election day around the country.

1445
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 1: There are a couple of candidates that I've been fighting

1446
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: for and so I feel accomplished in a sense that, Um,

1447
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 1: there are some battles I hope we win. But one

1448
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 1: of my heroes is Harry Belfonte was now in his

1449
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: mid nineties and it's still fighting for justice and change today.

1450
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 1: I hosted a conversation with him last year and he

1451
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: showed up with a Trayvon hoodie about a ninety four

1452
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 1: year old man and uh. And I asked him about

1453
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: why he had on the hoodie and he said, uh,

1454
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: as long as George Zimmerman is walking around, I'm aware

1455
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 1: of this hoodie and it's ninety four year old man.

1456
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,639
Speaker 1: And I saw that was like, that's why I want

1457
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:48,759
Speaker 1: to be the ninety four year old man wearing the hoodie.

1458
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: You know, I wish, I wish we didn't need to

1459
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: wear the hoodie. I wish, I wish, I wish I

1460
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: could work myself out of a job. But I'm convinced

1461
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of our problems are gonna be here

1462
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 1: for a very long time time. So um, it's it's

1463
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 1: a marathon. I know we all love Nipsey, and um,

1464
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: I think part of what I think about when I

1465
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 1: think about Nipsey is also saying, hey, there's some things

1466
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fight for today, but there's some things I'm

1467
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 1: fighting for now, knowing we won't see the fruits for ten,

1468
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:23,320
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty years, and and as I get older,

1469
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm able to see that a little more clearly. And

1470
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:29,840
Speaker 1: so um, some systems are gonna take a lifetime for

1471
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 1: us to see see the change for sure. Sean appreciate

1472
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,320
Speaker 1: you Tell Tell our audience where where they can find

1473
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 1: you at sure, I mean right now, people can go

1474
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,680
Speaker 1: to free Rodney Read dot com. And that's where my

1475
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: mind is and where my heart is. As soon as

1476
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 1: I leave here, I'm checking on that and seeing what

1477
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 1: progress we've made. We're down to the wire with fourteen

1478
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 1: days to save this man's life. You can check me

1479
01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,760
Speaker 1: out at Shawn King on every social media platform. Also

1480
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: have a daily news podcast called The Breakdown. I'm recording

1481
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:08,200
Speaker 1: that just f y. If anybody ever asked you to

1482
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,680
Speaker 1: do a daily news podcast, say no, it's hard, man,

1483
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 1: It's hard. It's a beast. It is a grind and

1484
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 1: so I love it, but it's so hard to do.

1485
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,719
Speaker 1: That's on every podcast platform. Check that out. We're talking

1486
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,479
Speaker 1: about Rodney Reeves case every day for the next fourteen

1487
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: days on their UM. I have a book that's coming out.

1488
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: We just released the website today. It doesn't come out

1489
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 1: to April. The books called Make Change, So you can

1490
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: go to Make Change book dot com to check that out.

1491
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,600
Speaker 1: And Uh, I'm always building, always tinkering, always trying to

1492
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 1: empower people to make a difference. So I'm gonna keep

1493
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 1: on pushing. Man. Yeah, if you had last thing, you know,

1494
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: a message to the world that would go around on

1495
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: the billboard, one word or a sentence, what would be?

1496
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Oh man, you know so much of so much of

1497
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: my mind is is about Rodney Reid. But um, I

1498
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 1: would I would probably say do something. Uh so much.

1499
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 1: So much energy has spent thinking about doing something, talking

1500
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 1: about doing something. Um, you learn more from just getting

1501
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: out there and actually doing something. And and so I

1502
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: tell people all the time, your issue does not have

1503
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: to be my issue. My issue doesn't have to be yours.

1504
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: So I'm fighting against police brutality and mass incarceration. Your

1505
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 1: thing might be something altogether different, but do something, and

1506
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 1: you're something doesn't have to be mine. But you don't

1507
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 1: want to look back on your life and your good

1508
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:49,559
Speaker 1: years wishing you had done something, So you would say,

1509
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 1: do something, Get out there and do it. That's a

1510
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 1: wrap Episode three, All the smoke. I want to thank

1511
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 1: Sean King for coming through and educating, using and sharing

1512
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: his story and uh, you know you guys can find

1513
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube channel and all platforms this

1514
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:11,360
Speaker 1: stream podcasts. Jack, you got anything? The boy gave me

1515
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 1: some Malcolm and some more Luther King. Yes, man, I'm

1516
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 1: getting chills from I learned a lot today, so that's

1517
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 1: why I was kind of quiet. I learned a lot today.

1518
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: See y'all next time.