1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: the show. My name is nol our writer or Die, 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: compatriot and colleague, our better third math Frederick is on 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: adventure somewhat off the grid, but will be returning soon. 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: So say hello if you see him in the wild. 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined today with our super 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Before we begin today's episode, 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: take a take a second if you're in a safe 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: place and driving and look around just your immediate area. 15 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: Don't think outside of your room, don't you Just the 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: stuff you can see or the stuff you can touch. 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Try counting how many things you can identify as being 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: made of plastic. Just take a second and think about it. Yeah, man, 19 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: just on my desk right here, I've got like, I've 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: got this tiny little plastic gummy bear that my kid 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: uses to make necklaces. So there's one and a McDonald's cup. 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of little trinkets, you know. We've 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: got a little plastic squirrel with a beanie like this guy. 24 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: Is is the camera focusing on this cute little I'm 25 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: really bad at centering on this because it's off to 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: the side. Uh. Got a bunch of like a bottle, 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: a hand sanitizer um chords, you know. Like I've got 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: an like an Ethernet core that's wrapped in rubber with 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: plastic ends on into the very least. Yeah. Man, a 30 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: lot of the camera that we're recording into these little 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: lots of key care is I live with a life 32 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: size plastic skeleton because That's where I'm at. And like 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to believe that Agent Scully was in fact 34 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: a real skeleton. I think it is a huge injustice 35 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: for us to say that the nature of her physical 36 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: material decides whether or not she's real. But I'm very 37 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just like a pro pro be what 38 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: kind of person. But but but you're right, you know, 39 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: and and a lot of our fellow listeners just at 40 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: the same thing. You see the objects on nearby counters, shelves, tables, right, 41 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: and and also think about the furniture, think about the 42 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: device you're using to play this episode. Think about the 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: clothing you're wearing, right, what percentage of that is a 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: synthetic polymer? The short answer is there probably for many 45 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: of us in the audience today, there are more plastic 46 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: things around you than you can easily count. Plastic ubiquitous. 47 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: Plastic is everywhere. So today's question, how did it get here? 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: When did we know about it? And what does this 49 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: mean for the future. To to answer this, we do 50 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: have to start it, but maybe kind of a boring place, 51 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: but but it's important for the rest of the episode. 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: So here are the facts. Uh, plastic A brief history 53 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: of plastic. Yeah, technically, plastic is a it's like a 54 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: catch all term sort of. Uh. It's a word or 55 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: for a group of things, for any material that can 56 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: be shaped, molded, or manipulated into any form um. Some 57 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: of these things occur naturally, These substances occur naturally, but 58 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: most are man made. And today the word plastic is 59 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: really used to refer to a category of materials that 60 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: we collectively call polymers, m hmmm and plastics. Uh. First, 61 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: shout out to everybody who's already remembering that scene and 62 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: the graduate's great scene. Uh. Plastics were often for times 63 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: seen in the future that the science is fascinating. A 64 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: lot of children don't know this growing up in school, 65 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: but plastics are made from oil, right, the same kind 66 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: of oil that is the roughly speaking, the same kind 67 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: of oil that's used to make gas. Oil is carbon rich. 68 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: That's what makes it such a popular fat these days. 69 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: And plastics are these large carbon containing compounds, if you know, 70 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: like you pointed out and well, we're referring to them 71 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: in the modern sense. These polymers, these large molecules, they're 72 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: composed of these repeating units of shorter and shorter carbon 73 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: containing compounds called monomers. Chemists combine these different types of 74 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: monomers to make up vast a panopoly of plastics that 75 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: all have different chemical the chemical properties, like how in 76 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: the Justice League or in the X Men the Avengers 77 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: people have different superpowers. Most of this stuff is inert 78 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: and the big, the big wind for humanity is that 79 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: it often won't react chemically to other substances. You can 80 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: put soap in plastic, right. It makes me think of 81 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: that that scene and Breaking Bad, where you know they 82 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: want to dissolve some bodies right in acid, and the 83 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: material that Walter White asks Jesse to go get are 84 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 1: these plastic bins, which seems like, you know, acid would 85 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: melt right through polymer bins um instead. Jesse thinks this 86 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: is absurd, so he does it in the bathtub, uh, 87 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: and the acid dissolves right through the floor, showering, you know, goo, 88 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: and dissolve body parts all over the living room. But right, 89 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: isn't that right? Then? Like there's something about the chemical makeup, 90 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: the inertness of plastic that even something as caustic as 91 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: acid won't react with it, right, Yeah? And it depends 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: on in It depends on the plastic exactly. Yes. And 93 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: I think that's a big plot point in Breaking Bad, 94 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: which I just rewatched a lot of it, but in 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: a very lazy way. I just rewatched my favorite scenes. 96 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: So I think it holds up. So how do we 97 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: get here? How do we get How did our lives 98 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: become inundated with this stuff? The story of plastic dates 99 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: back to the eighteen hundreds. In eighteen fifty six, a 100 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: guy named Alexander Parks created something called park Scene. This 101 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: is generally considered the first thermoplastic. A guy named John 102 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: Wesley Hyatt in eighteen sixty nine saw a an offer 103 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: by a business in New York to give away ten 104 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to anyone who could make a substitute for ivory, 105 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, ivory elephant tusk, and this inspired John Wesley 106 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: Hyatt to invent what we call cellul lloyd today. The 107 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: whole reason there was an ivory shortage, by the way, 108 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: was because billiards was growing massively popular. It was the 109 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: pogue or the Pokemon of its time, right, So this 110 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: guy invents this guy invents celluloyd, and people were like, whoa, 111 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: this is amazing. But it didn't stop there. That's not 112 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: even the real revolution yet. Yeah, and sell celluloid, which 113 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: is a tongue twister and of itself is also still 114 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: what people think of when they think about film. For 115 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: from cinema, it's printed on celluloyd. It's it's sort of 116 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: I think that's probably not exactly accurate anymore, but it's 117 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: certainly what the original material was that was used to 118 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: project film. Um. Then, in nineteen o seven, a guy 119 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: by the name of Leo Bakeland invented what he very 120 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: self aggrandizingly referred to as bake light, which was the 121 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: first fully synthetic plastic, so that meant that it had 122 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: no molecules that were found in nature. It was pure 123 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: laboratory magic. You're right, nol uh Bakeland definitely definitely had 124 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: his eye and some more get in there. Uh. These 125 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: two major publicly known successes got the attention of the 126 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: big players in the chemical industry, and so they just 127 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: started throwing money into the potential of plastic, the R 128 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: and D the development. As a matter of fact, there 129 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: was a time when they just started seeing They decided 130 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: that they would just discover and invent new types of plastic, 131 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: and then later they would figure out what that stuff 132 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: was good for. They just wanted to be kind of 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: the first past the post in in the invention game. 134 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: And then World War let's fast forward World War two. 135 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: Uh sparks this massive, unprecedented expansion of the plastic industry. 136 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: Think about it. Natural resources are at a premium. We 137 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: want a safe, viable, affordable alternative. And that's why production 138 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: of plastic increased by three hundred percent in the US. 139 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: And this pattern continued in one way or another at 140 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: the end of the war. For a time, people thought 141 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,599 Speaker 1: plastic would save the world. Plastic was a miracle substance, 142 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: uh that that may one day prove as historically important 143 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: as the so called Philosopher's Stone of alchemy. Except plastic 144 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: was real, or at the very least sliced bread. You know, 145 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: but sliced bread. It's got this cool thing about it 146 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: where you know, you eat it and then it's gone 147 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: and you don't have to worry about it hanging around 148 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: for generations. But it turns out as far back as 149 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: the sixties, folks in the US already we're realizing the plastics, 150 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: while they were durable and lightweight and may be able 151 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: to be molded into any number of amazing shapes, um 152 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: stuck around for a long long time, and they're already 153 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: kind of started to be this I don't know if 154 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: this trust is the right word, but a certain awareness 155 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: and trepidation around, like should we really throw our whole 156 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: lot in with this material when we're already seeing that 157 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: studies are showing that it causes problems with the environment. Yeah, 158 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: the apprehension was growing. In nineteen sixty one study found 159 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: that five percent of birds had plastic of some sort 160 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: in their stomachs. And then people also, uh, very prescient 161 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: people started raising concerns about the possible long term effects 162 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: of plastic on human health. But here's the problem. We're 163 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: already passed the point of Prometheus and Pandora. The lid 164 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: of the jar had been unscrewed. We knew the fire 165 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: of this new technology. We as a society had already 166 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: doubled down upon plastic. And today plastic is virtually irreplaceable. 167 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: I mean, there are obviously biodegradable alternatives in certain fields, right, 168 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: Like you can get biodegradable straws, cups, bags, and so on, 169 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of environmental clean up programs, 170 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: they're recycling initiatives. But better or worse, plastic is here 171 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: to stay, and I will stay. Ben. You're right, there 172 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: are alternatives, right, But those biodegradable straws they suck, They deteriorate, 173 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: they fall apart. They just don't work as well as 174 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: a plastic straw. Uh. And this is coming from someone 175 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: who tries to avoid getting a plastic straw whenever humanly possible. 176 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: Um Metal straws, Okay, that's cool, but they make everything 177 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: you drink taste kind of metallic, and that's not cool. 178 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: It's really just that the the Pandora's box you are 179 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: describing Ben is less the greed of monopolistic corporations and 180 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: more just the malaise of consumers and just realizing that, Okay, 181 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: sure there are problems, but gosh, it's sure it's convenient, isn't. 182 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: It's like, we know all these problems with Amazon today, 183 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: but you don't see very many people giving up their 184 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: Amazon despite knowing all the labor problems and the monopoly 185 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: problems and all that stuff. It's a very similar example. 186 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: Um and uh. And it really does all translate to 187 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: the almighty dollar at the end of the day. Agreed. 188 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: And there's one Leviathan One big piece of this story 189 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: that does not get as much press as it deserves. 190 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: It's this, how much did the big manufacturers know about 191 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: the dangers of plastic and when did they know it? 192 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: Perhaps most importantly, what did they do about it? We'll 193 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's where 194 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Well, they knew about it. They they 195 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: were They knew way more about it than the average person. 196 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: And they went on their merry way to the factories 197 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: and to the banks. And then the average person knew 198 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: enough about it already for it to be a red flag. 199 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there were these studies about the herd stomachs 200 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: and all of that stuff that was out there. But yeah, 201 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: you're right, Ben, they just waltzed their happy asses to 202 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: the bank and cash those checks like for forever. I mean, 203 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: because this really is the kind of thing where you're 204 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: placing a long term bet on on plastics if you're 205 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: one of these companies. So concerns about plastic became even 206 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: more mainstream in the seventies, you know, ecology and recycle, reduce, 207 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: reuse and all of that stuff. Um, the oil, chemical 208 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: and plastic industries grew a little bit anxious because they're like, 209 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: how do we spend this? You know, we don't want 210 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: to be the big bad guys. We gotta figure out 211 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: a way to sell plastic back to the consumers in 212 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: a way that they can feel good about. Right. So 213 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: they hatched what can accurately be called a conspiracy. It's 214 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: an insidious one. In fact, it is a conspiracy that 215 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: you may have participated in with the best of intentions. 216 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: It's one that many of us have have played a 217 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: role in. This conspiracy and a large way, and I 218 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: hate to ruin this for everybody is the concept of 219 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: recycling plastic that is the conspiracy in today's episode. At 220 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: the first National Conference of Packaging Waste in nineteen sixty nine, 221 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: the chief environmental manager of Dow Chemical presented a paper 222 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: on the explosive growth of what are called single use plastics. 223 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: We've all seen those. You know, you go to a 224 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: fast food place, you get your bag and your you 225 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: get your whopper. Uh. In these trying times. Two that's 226 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: an Easter egg for just the three of us talking 227 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: off air. Uh. And then you get here with you, 228 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: here with you with your flame world whopper to give 229 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: you comfort during these are trying times. Dandy DeVito with 230 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: an egg, but now it's a whopper. So you see 231 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: these in cafeterias, universities, restaurants, etcetera. And this environmental manager 232 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: takes an interesting approach because he says, you know, he 233 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: extols the virtues of these things. They're durable materials, they 234 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: might conceivably last forever. But he also points out the 235 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: disposal problem, that's what he calls it. He says, there's 236 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: a coming deluge of plastic waste and the industry is 237 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: turning a blind eye to it. Uh, and that they're 238 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: going to continue turning a blind eye to it as 239 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: long as possible. We are. A lot of people didn't 240 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: know the extent of this conspiracy until reporters working with 241 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: National Public Radio and a couple of other outfits found 242 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: documents that proved from the very beginning, the same corporations 243 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: telling customers that recycling was on them. Those same corporations 244 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: knew that large scale plastic recycling was a pipe dream. 245 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: Was a plastic pipe dream. It was unrealistic to think 246 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: it would actually work in an economically feasible way at 247 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: that scale. Man, I'm pretty sure we've talked about this 248 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: on the show before, But remember that iconic ecological ad 249 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: campaign with the Native American gentleman and the single tier, 250 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, because there's like piles of garbage behind him 251 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: and was presumably his his native land or whatever, you know. 252 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: I remember free of the guy's name. It turns out 253 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: that dude wasn't even a Native American at all. I 254 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: think he's like Italian. And that ad campaign was developed 255 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: by a lot of these waste producing corporations. That's right, Yes, yeah, 256 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: that's an actor from Spaghetti westerns uh. And we're talking 257 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: about to Keep America Beautiful campaign also known as K 258 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: A B. Yeah, this is a great example of how 259 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: big Plastic. That's just what we'll use his mental shorthand 260 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: for all these trade groups, Big Plastic decided that instead 261 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: of putting money into a solution for the problem of 262 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: plastic waste, which they correctly predicted would grow out of control, 263 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: instead of trying to solve that, they spent money funding 264 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: pr campaigns to blame you, the customer, for the pollution. 265 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: The world is going to hell in a handbasket, not 266 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: because of these massive corporations throwing this stuff everywhere, but 267 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: because you use the plastic straw, you monster. You know, 268 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: I would call it brilliant if it wasn't so evil, 269 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: you know what. You know what, let's say it's both. 270 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: It can be both. It's brilliant and evil, because that's right. 271 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: Then they're punting the responsibility from them because they're just 272 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: giving you what you want. They're just you know, continuing 273 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: that legacy of convenience. It's your fault for for throwing 274 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: it in the in the in the ocean. You're the 275 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: one throwing it and making that Indian cry. You did that, 276 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: even if you've never been to the ocean. Yeah, I 277 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: let's see if the importmanteau that, how about aviliant? Love 278 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: it for levil it's also done done with gusto. No, 279 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: I like your villiant because it makes me think of 280 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: it bulliant. So it's sort of like it's evil and brilliant. 281 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: And it's done with a bulliance, because how do you 282 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: sell it if it's not like, got some rasmutaz to it, 283 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Viliant? Yes, all right, booked, 284 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: We'll we'll get Matt. We'll get Matt on board with 285 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: that too. Actually, let's we'll tell let's mess with his 286 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: mind and tell him that we always use that word 287 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: right exactly. So. Uh so this large scale mind and 288 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: media manipulation is quite successful today. A lot of people 289 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: still don't know that Keep America Beautiful to your POINTNAL 290 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: was founded by that industry and through twisting the narrative 291 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: right of littering, which you shouldn't litter that's that's not 292 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: even a hot take, put stuff in trash cans um. 293 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: Through that, through that reviliance move, uh, they were able 294 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: to get public support. Even though Keep America Beautiful was founded. 295 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 1: Two prevent state bands on single use plastic packaging like 296 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: it was it was founded to keep the one time 297 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: use fork spice flowing. For lack of a better word. Yeah, 298 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: and we know this because there are documents from these companies. 299 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: That's right. Um, you know, it's sort of like it 300 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: reminds me of the story we did on the material 301 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: that's in non stick pans with the lawyer um who 302 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: kind of spearheaded the whole investigation into uncovering very similar 303 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: kind of secret documents about what they knew, when they 304 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: knew it, and how they essentially colluded or you know. Good, Yeah, 305 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: that's that's that's probably accurate to cover it up and 306 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: to keep it from the public. Um. And this is 307 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: this is no different. So what they did was they did, 308 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, manipulation of this narrative too. They 309 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: did have a solution at least to the whole like 310 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: making everyone sad, about making the Indian cry and about 311 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: feeling this guilt of all of this stuff they've been 312 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: pumping out into the world. No, no, no no, no, there's 313 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: another way, folks. It's called recycling, and it's something that 314 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: you too can be a part of and making America beautiful, 315 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: keeping America beautiful. You can be a part of that 316 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: How cool is that bend? That's like, you know, they're 317 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: literally selling you a gold star of the ability to 318 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: feel like you're doing your part. Not only can you 319 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: have your cake and eat it with a plastic fork, two, 320 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: you can then turn that plastic fork into another plastic 321 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: fork or or whatever else the tupperware. The sky's the 322 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: limit recycling plastic and it feels good to do it too. 323 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: Right where you are, somehow you are, somehow more aware, 324 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: you're a better steward of the planet. That's that's the 325 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: idea that they're selling. And if recycling worked the way 326 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: that they described it, then this would to a large 327 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: degree be true. But the problem is multiple internal company 328 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: documents have indicated that this was a move of self 329 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: preservation on the part of the plastics industry. They needed 330 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: to make people believe plastic was sustainable. When I throw 331 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: that fork in the right bin, then I am really 332 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: just giving someone else in the future another fork, or 333 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: another jug of milk or something like that. The lobbyists 334 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: in the plastic and oil industry fought very hard and 335 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: quite successfully to mandate that triangle recycle symbol. It's like 336 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: the ecological or a burros, but like in a good 337 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: way where it kind of like feeds back into itself, 338 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's, uh, what could this? 339 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: It says all you need to know. It's like, hey, 340 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: you can be part of this amazing continuum of manufacturing. 341 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: Always the yeah, I always thinking ecological illuminati. I think 342 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: both answers are acceptable. I would even say, you know, 343 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: all of the above there. It did make an impact 344 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: because it gave us this belief that all of those 345 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: items bearing that mark could potentially be turned into new products. 346 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: The thing is, the vast majority of them were not 347 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: turned into new products. The vast majority of them are 348 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,959 Speaker 1: still not turned into anything new. They can be we 349 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: have the technology. There's just not a market for these things. 350 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: It's not a market for this recycled plastic, and in 351 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: many cases there's not a compelling financial reason to make them. 352 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: And that's because recycling has problems. When we talk about plastics, 353 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: they're huge problems with recycling. Yeah, I mean, remember we 354 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: were talking to the top of the show about how 355 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: like this one particular type of plastic might you know, 356 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: be able to hold acid, and these other types of 357 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: plastic that can hold rubbing alcohol and et cetera. I mean, 358 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, typically polymers are versatile and nonreactive in that way. 359 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: But to your point, Bend, there are different ones. There's 360 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of different ones, and so you know, they 361 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: don't all necessarily play nice together because you would actually 362 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: have to combine them and they would have to gel 363 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: chemically and in order to be repurposed into something else. 364 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: And so all of the plastic that that this that 365 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: would be needed to UM do this properly or effectively 366 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: would have to be sorted by hand to to separate 367 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: out this is this type of plastic, This is this 368 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: type of plastics. This is this type of plastic. They 369 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: can't commingle um so consumers don't know what that is, right, 370 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's not and there's not enough bins in 371 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: a recycling you know, container to even deal with that 372 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: on the front end, right, So that means it's way 373 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: expense of to sort all of the plastics to make 374 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: new plastic from old plastic. Then it would be just 375 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: to make it from oil, yep, just to make new stuff. 376 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: It's true that this is the episode where we somewhat 377 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: ruined recycling. It's the subtitle that's the But I mean 378 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: this isn't to say that no plastic is recycled, right, Ben. 379 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: I mean we do read about usually kind of bespoke 380 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: products often that are more expensive to buy to the consumer, 381 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: that are in fact made of all recycled materials, are 382 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: all recycled plastic. But that's you're paying a premium for 383 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: that privilege of knowing that you're buying something that was 384 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: made with recycled plastic. That's because it takes more work 385 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: to make it that way, has to be sorted by hand. Uh, 386 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, you have to find the 387 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: plastics that play well together. Uh. And then just for 388 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: an example, yeah, there is there is actual recycling plastics. 389 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's sold as at a premium as you mentioned. Uh. 390 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: But the stuff that's recycled is often not used in 391 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: the ways you think it would be used. Like take 392 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: a plastic milk jug down with your plastic milk jug, 393 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: you wash it out because you don't want it to 394 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: smell up your house or your trash bag. Uh. And 395 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: then while you're doing that, you say, oh, wait, I recycled, 396 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna put this in the blue the blue receptacle. 397 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: And then you think, okay, off on your journey little 398 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: plastic jug, bro, I wish you luck in this your 399 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: secular version of reincarnation. That plastic jug can only get 400 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: recycled a few times because it degrades in quality every 401 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: time it's recycled. So this means it can only happen. 402 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: It can only be recycled a finite number of times. 403 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: Uh so what happened to the use plastic Well in 404 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: the US, we did something that's very popular in a 405 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: lot of disposal strategies of this country. We shipped it 406 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: somewhere where we couldn't see it, you know what I mean, 407 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: out of sight, out of mind, like a child. It's 408 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: not I can't see it. It's not there anymore. We Yeah, 409 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: And unfortunately that is an all too common thing that 410 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: we as Americans, uh, fall victim to um and and 411 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: to your point, Ben, like even like the idea, this 412 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: is interesting to me, and this has maybe more a 413 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: question than I have. If you can only be recycled 414 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: for a number of times, like how do you know 415 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: when you're done? Like when when you when you've no 416 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: longer got a viable product? Isn't that something you have 417 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: to track as well? Yeah? I mean that's a really 418 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: good point, because then we have this whole logistic aspect 419 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: to it, right logistical aspect to it, where we can't 420 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: just do our best to recycle stuff. We also have 421 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: to make sure that we're recycling something into something viable. Uh. 422 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: The complications alone are could cripple the entire project. So 423 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: shive it off to China. Right. For a long time, 424 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: labor was cheaper there. Also, environmental laws were lacks right, 425 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: or at least on pay paper. Uh. The U S 426 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: laws were more strict the country of China and businesses 427 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: in China. Eventually, we're no longer able to find uses 428 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: for all of this discarded plastics, so now they've largely 429 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: stopped accepting it. There's just not much of a market 430 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: for this recycled stuff. And that means that a lot 431 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: of the plastic in this country, in the US ends 432 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: up getting discarded and it piles up, piles up. And 433 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, this gives me an existential crisis. 434 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: There's there's a question I have to ask at the 435 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: very end of this. Yeah, and you know, and maybe 436 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: you can answer this, Ben, I know, you know, and 437 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: I live Indicator, Georgia, and the city of Decatur has 438 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: been plagued with corruption in terms of like you know, 439 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: overcharging people for utilities, and there was like a big 440 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: lawsuit all the stuff. But I've also heard rumor that 441 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: my little blue recycling ben hopper that I you know, 442 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: roll out KIIIII kick onto the curve every Monday, that 443 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: that just ends up in the land fill more often 444 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: than not, that a lot of me pnicipalities don't do 445 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: a good job of recycling, even when you think that's 446 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: what you're doing. Yeah, that's true, and that's that's something 447 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: that is unfortunately not historically uncommon, you know what I mean. Like, 448 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: consider a lot of office buildings where you know, people 449 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: think they are throwing that aluminum can, that plastic bottle 450 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: into the recycling bin, and then one night, maybe you're 451 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: working late, then you see that the people who do 452 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: custodial services in that office just throw it all in 453 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: the same place. And then maybe you tell yourself there's 454 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a magical Susian sorting machine that handles everything like a 455 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: Harry Potter hat of some sort, you know. Yeah, But 456 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: but it goes to the whole point that we started 457 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: with here, is that it's all about optics. It's all 458 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: about selling you the dream. It's not actually about the practice, 459 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: it's more about like the image, right, So, uh, what 460 00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: happened um as as this continued, you know, especially after 461 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: China's sort of rejecting this material. I believe that that 462 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: study Rereforence earlier about birds having plastics in the stomachs, 463 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: and the number then was about five percent. But by 464 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: the eighties, uh, you know, in true eighties excess fashion, 465 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: that number increased to eight percent. Eighty percent of birds 466 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: in a similar studies twenty years later had plastic in 467 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: their stomach And now as we record this, multiple studies 468 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: indicate that almost nine percent of all birds have some 469 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: sort of plastics somewhere in their system. Today, as we 470 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: record this, about a million birds going to die this 471 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: year due specifically to their stomachs being stuffed with plastics. 472 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: And you know, my qualms with with the bird population then, 473 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: but even I don't think they deserve to go out 474 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: like that. I agreed. And so you know, the one 475 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: thing you want for an enemy you respect, I would 476 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: imagine from your perspectivele is to is that they have 477 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: an honorable death right. I mean, at least spectacular. Let 478 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: their stomachs explode from eating wedding rice or something. You know, 479 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm kidding and burn people out there. Please don't 480 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: don't cancel me. I'm I'm very very much kidding. But no. 481 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: It turns out that the concept of recycling as it's 482 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: been sold to the United States public and other places 483 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: around the world is at the very very least misleading. 484 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: Is an optics first kind of thing, as opposed to like, 485 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: what's the actual end result of this, uh, this whole operation? Right, yeah, exactly. 486 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: I like the way one industry insider put it. They said, 487 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: selling recycling sells plastic. Uh. And then there's an interesting 488 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: statement by a guy named Larry Thomas, who is a 489 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: former president of the Society of the Plastics Industry, which 490 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: today is known as p I, a Plastics Industry Association. 491 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: He uh, he was at the helm of one of 492 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: the most powerful trade groups for the industry in d C. 493 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: And he said that if the public thinks that recycling 494 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: is working, then they are not going to be as 495 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: concerned about the environment. And to be fair, the industry's 496 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: current position is that there is no conspiracy of foot 497 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: and wanted to give voice to the the other side 498 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: to their perspective. Guy named Steve Russell, a representative for 499 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: the plastics industry who was for a while the vice 500 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: president of plastics for the American Chemistry Council, says the 501 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: industry has never intentionally mislead the public about recycling and 502 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: that they're committed to ensuring one day that all plastic 503 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: is recycled. And he says, uh, you know, public commitment 504 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: to recycling programs, public pressure, uh, and evolving technology will 505 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: all play huge roles in helping recycle all plastic. Essentially, 506 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: he's saying, no one ever intentionally misled anyone, and maybe 507 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: one day recycling can do what the industry for decades 508 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: claimed it was already doing. Just think about the double 509 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: thinking that statement. It's Orwellian. Yeah, it's kind of mind blowing. Um. 510 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't even know how to respond to that, Ben, 511 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not saying, we have to be clear, 512 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: We are not saying recycling is anything other than an amazing, awesome, 513 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: potentially world changing, world saving concept. Do you remember, though, Ben, 514 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: like being a kid and going to like the recycling center, 515 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: getting a tour and all that stuff. I mean, it 516 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: was something that sold to you as early as as uh, 517 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, elementary school, recycled, reduced, reuse all of that 518 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: stuff and again, and we're gonna We're gonna continue on. 519 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: But I do want to say, like recycling paper, it's 520 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: great recycling paper works. You can smash all that stuff 521 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: together and make all kinds of cool stuff, uh, you know, 522 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: and pulp and you know, make You can even buy 523 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: recycled paper for your copy paper if you want. There's 524 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: all kinds of uses for recycled paper. But the plastic 525 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: parts just a much more tricky. Uh, let's call its 526 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: supply chain problem, right, yeah, And again, like I I'm 527 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: conflicted about this because I love, uh, I love the 528 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: idea of recycling, and I love the idea of individual 529 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: people being able to make a fundamental difference in the 530 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: world around them, you know what I mean. I love 531 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: the power of the individual. But what we are saying 532 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: here is that the idea of recycling in the world 533 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: of plastic the way it's been practiced is not near 534 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: as widespread as the plastic industry would want you to believe. 535 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: And this will probably continue to be the case until 536 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: there's some revolutionary technology that Harry Potter trash hat, which 537 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: is a great phrase, uh, until it comes online or 538 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: until it becomes somehow more profitable to recycle and reuse 539 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: plastic rather than to make new plastic. Neither of those 540 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: things have happened yet not not neither of them. And 541 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: to compound the issue here, we are still learning the 542 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: full scope of this problem. We may not know the 543 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: long term consequences of this issue for gears and years 544 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: and years to come. And that doesn't mean it doesn't 545 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: affect us. It means that we don't know what's going 546 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: to happen. This's never happened on Earth before. We have 547 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: no idea what plot twister ahead. Yeah, I mean, each 548 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: year human beings produced three hundred and sixty million tons 549 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: of plastic UH, and according to one study, around eight 550 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: million tons of it enters the ocean UM and until recently, 551 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: UH the fate of what's called microplastics, which is plastics 552 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: that contain particles less than five millimeters in size UM 553 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: in the ocean has been unclear, but to your point, 554 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: been a recent study. We're at least starting to get 555 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: a whiff of what these microplastic particles are doing when 556 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: they settle in marine sediments UM, following the pattern of 557 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: a lot of other pollutants. So We're not just talking 558 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: about like hard goods that stick around. We're talking about 559 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 1: the chemical impact of plastics and how it can actually 560 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: saturate and and uh contaminate soil and water and and beyond. Yeah, 561 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: you're right, no, uh. Microplastics and nanoplastics, which are the 562 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,800 Speaker 1: they have a diameter of less than point zero zero 563 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: one millimeters. Both of these form from the abrasion of 564 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: larger pieces of plastic dumped into the ocean, so the 565 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: stuff keeps kind of breaking itself in the smaller and 566 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: smaller chunks, and research in wildlife and in laboratory animals 567 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: has established some pretty compelling links to between tiny plastic 568 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 1: and infertility, inflammation, even cancer. Microplastics have polluted the entire planet, 569 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: from the Arctic to your neighborhood park to the depths 570 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: of the ocean. Like you probably saw not too long ago, 571 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: scientists being startled to get to a very remote part 572 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: of the world under the ice and antarctica and then 573 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: see that there was plastic there. This is happening. Yeah, 574 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: you ever heard you ever thought of the concept of 575 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: airborne plastic ben Again, this the old school model of 576 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: plastic pollution as much more just a nuisance, right, or like, okay, 577 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: it gets in birds, the physical chunks of things get 578 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: in birds and like choke them or cause them to 579 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: have horrible digestive problems that can that can ultimately kill them. 580 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, airborne plastic apparently human beings. According to a 581 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: previous study that we found UH for this episode, UM 582 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: have shown people eat and breathe in at least fifty 583 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 1: thousand particles of microplastic a year, and that microplastic pollution 584 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: is absolutely just raining down upon city dwellers and it's 585 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: not going away anytime soon. No, it's not, which means 586 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: that to a large degree, this conspiracy was successful because 587 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: the profit margins stayed consistent, UM. But now it's coming 588 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: to a head, and we have to ask ourselves what 589 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: does this mean for the future. We'll tell you after 590 00:37:49,800 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. We've returned. Let's open this 591 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: segment about the future with a quote from Rolling Stone 592 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: that gives us a troubling summation of the dilemma we face. No, 593 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: could I ask you to do the honors here? Absolutely, sir. 594 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone puts it out like this, More than half 595 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: the plastics down on Earth has been created since two 596 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,760 Speaker 1: thousand two, and plastic pollution is on pace to double 597 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: by tw At its root, the global plastics crisis is 598 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: a product of our addiction to fossil fuels. The private 599 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: profit and public harm of the oil industry is very 600 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: well understood. Um. Again, this is all quote from this 601 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone article by Tim Dickinson, UM, which absolutely recommend 602 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: fully reading. Uh, but let's let's continue um. Oil is 603 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: refined and distributed to customers who consumers rather who benefit 604 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: from gasoline's short useful lifespan in a combustion engine, leaving 605 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: behind atmosphere pollution for generations by the same pattern, and 606 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: the same tragedy of the commons is playing out with 607 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: another gift of the oil and gas giants whose drilling 608 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: draws up the petroleum precursors for plastics. Yeah. Yeah, it's 609 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: they're troublingly similar cycles, right, And you know the proof 610 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: is out there. Oil companies knew about the issues with 611 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 1: fossil fuels dating back to the seventies and didn't say 612 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: a word about it. So that's where we're at. Since 613 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty, the world has created six point three trillion 614 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: kims of plastic waste of that has never been recycled 615 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: even once. This trend is only going to accelerate as 616 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: emerging economies increase their plastic consumption. Like think about this, 617 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: In ten advanced economies in the world, we're using twenty 618 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: times more plastic than and uh per capita than consumers 619 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: and places like Indonesia or in India and now people 620 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: are on the way up. Right, there's a higher demand 621 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: for plastic, and the industry itself, Big Plastic, is counting 622 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: on that growing demand to keep selling stuff even though 623 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: a great deal of it will still be around long 624 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: after and probably long after everyone listening to this podcast, 625 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: we're watching this YouTube clip today has been long dead 626 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: and and this is this is that existential crisis. I 627 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about this. Uh everyone, you know 628 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: you doc all of us listening along at home or 629 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: in our cars are counting the pieces of plastic around us. 630 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: Do you experience existential dread when you hold like like 631 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: a plastic fork and realize just how much longer it 632 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: will be around than you, how much more permanent it 633 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: is in the scheme of things than you a living 634 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: being that it bothers me, yeah, bothers me too, and 635 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: you know who else it bothers been uh kids who 636 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: as you well know kids these days, say that as 637 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: someone who's essentially becoming an old grandpapa. But kids these 638 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: days are are what the kids these days called pretty woke. 639 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: Uh there they are hip to all these societal problems, 640 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: political and environmental and otherwise. And you know what else, 641 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: kids like legos UM and apparently a lot of kids 642 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: who are fond of Legos begged the Lego Corporation in 643 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: the form of letters that they wrote, uh to the 644 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: company to stop using single use plastic bags in their packaging. 645 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: So Lego heard them. The Lego Group chief executive Officer 646 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: Niel's B. Christiansen said, we have received any letters from 647 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: child and about the environment asking us to remove single 648 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: use plastic packaging. UM. We've been exploring alternatives for some time, 649 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: and the passion and ideas from children inspired us to 650 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: begin to make changes. Uh. So apparently they are looking 651 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: to UM roll this out in the very near future 652 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: and it will be replaced with paper, which again, like 653 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: we said earlier in the episode, is much more viable 654 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: as a recyclable good. UM for single use materials. UM. 655 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: It's investing four hundred million dollars over three years to 656 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,800 Speaker 1: improve its sustainability efforts overall the Lego Corporation. Uh unfortunately, um, 657 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, legos themselves uh made of plastic. But at 658 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: least kids aren't throwing their legos in the ocean. Presumably 659 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: it's something to keep around and pass down to siblings, 660 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: and you know, so that's I think that's fine. Um. 661 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: I mean they're expensive, they are quite expensive. You're aware 662 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: of that. I am aware of that. They're also uh 663 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 1: murder here on your bare feet, as every parent knows 664 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: when you're walking around. Thankfully, my kids more into bracelets 665 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: than she has legos, but that's plastic beads. Um. But 666 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: again those are meant to be kept around and given 667 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: to friends and hopefully not just chucked. But yeah, our 668 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,919 Speaker 1: super producer Doc holiday Off Mike just kind of during 669 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: our ad break exasperatedly exclaimed, Oh, this is depressing, you know, 670 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: And then you're not wrong, Doc, you're not wrong. But 671 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 1: hopefully we can sort it out before we break the 672 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: planet Entirely, not to sound too tree huggry about it, 673 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 1: but sure feels like we're hitting a tipping point with 674 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: all this stuff. It's not a look extinction doesn't care 675 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: about vague, the vague stories we have made up for ourselves. 676 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,399 Speaker 1: Extinction does not care about political leanings. It doesn't care 677 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: about religion. It doesn't care about money the economy, which 678 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: again is just another religion. I out the clearing call 679 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 1: a long time ago. I don't think anybody has successfully 680 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: proven a difference between the concept of an economy and 681 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,920 Speaker 1: the concept of a religion. But there is one fascinating point, 682 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: and I appreciate it so much, man that you that 683 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: you brought a little bit of light here. Uh, there's 684 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: one fascinating point. The plastics crisis is different from climate change, 685 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: at least in the way it's been treated. Remember, like 686 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: I mentioned, oil corporations put a lot of money into 687 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: denying the concept of climate change for a very long time. 688 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 1: But the the folks over what we call big plastic. 689 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,919 Speaker 1: And to be fair, there there are a lot less 690 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: like two separate entities, and a lot more like fingers 691 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: on the same hand. But whatever you wanna call big plastic. 692 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: They are not denying the problem anymore. They're seeking to 693 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: convince consumers and regulators that, despite the fact they put 694 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: all this pollution out in the planet, they can be 695 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: the trusted experts to make plastic use sustainable and something 696 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: they call the circular economy, so that plastic does actually 697 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: get recycled continually and doesn't degrade. Uh. The cynical way 698 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: to translate that, honestly is this recycling. But you know, 699 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: for real this time? Sure, I like that. It's got 700 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: a nice ring to and not not do on a 701 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: down note, but it does. Something just popped into my head, 702 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: And we hadn't even talked about what about plastic garbage bags? Like? 703 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: I mean, don't they just end up in like landfills 704 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: like forever? I don't know, it's it's I'm sorry, I 705 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: took us down a peg. You brought us up a 706 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: peg and took us right back down. But what I 707 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: don't know? Are there any environmental scientists out there, any 708 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: polymer scientists out there? You know, Lego is talking about 709 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: exploring alternatives even to the plastic bricks. What does that 710 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: look like? Why are we so hooked on plastic? Let 711 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 1: us know? Yeah, let us know, let us know how 712 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: you think this is going to work out? We are 713 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: all ears, honestly, everybody should be. Uh. We cannot predict 714 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 1: the future, but we do see troubling trends and we 715 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: want to hear from you. You can find us on Instagram. 716 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, you can find us 717 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,960 Speaker 1: on Facebook. We love to recommend our favorite page on 718 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: the good old Internet, and that is our Facebook community page. 719 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. But wait, you can find 720 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 1: us as individuals too, should the spirit move you to 721 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: do so, you certainly can. You can find me exclusively 722 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram where I am at how now Noel Brown? Um? 723 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: You know I post a lot of like crazy cosplay 724 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: videos from my kid, who's a delight and also very 725 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: much into the environment. Um and uh, you know, cooking experiments, 726 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: under lockdown, occasional drumming exercises, and I'm starting getting yoga ben. 727 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: I just did like three days straight of a beginner 728 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: yoga you tube video. Starting to really enjoy that. So 729 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: maybe you'll see me in uh in cow pose or 730 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: I don't know the names yet, but you could see 731 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: that where where are you been on the Internet's uh? 732 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting you mentioned the yoga stuff. My 733 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: pal Alex your pal as well, it's got super into 734 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,840 Speaker 1: yoga recently. He's the one who told me videos to 735 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: watch yoga with Adrian for anyone else out there, that's 736 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: trying to dip their toe in in the yoga pool. 737 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,319 Speaker 1: Nice credit to you, Alex. If you're listening to the show. Uh. 738 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: If you're already on the internet, you can find me 739 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,880 Speaker 1: having any number of misadventures on Instagram where I'm at 740 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: ben Bowling. You can find me on Twitter where I'm 741 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,600 Speaker 1: at ben Bowling hs W. You will recognize it's me 742 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,960 Speaker 1: because you'll see a tweet that I wrote before I 743 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,319 Speaker 1: came into this episode, saying that the research really got 744 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: to me. The plastic is everywhere. I will aim to 745 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,560 Speaker 1: make less depressing tweets in the future. It's when you 746 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: started getting into the airborne plastic that I really started 747 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: getting dark. Uh, this is all pretty dark, but I 748 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,399 Speaker 1: don't know. It's always dark as before the dawn. How 749 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: far away are we from children being born with plastic 750 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,479 Speaker 1: in them? Anyhow? Tell us about it. You can also 751 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: give us a phone call if you are not the 752 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: type to sip the social needs, that's all right. We're 753 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 1: one eight three three S T d W y t K. 754 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 1: Leave us a voice mail memo message. UH, try to 755 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: keep it concise. You're much more likely to get on 756 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: one of our handy dandy listener Mail episodes if you 757 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,719 Speaker 1: do that. But if you've got something that needs to 758 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: be broken up into a couple of these, I think 759 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: what's the limit been a couple of minutes for each 760 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: of these. Uh, feel free, but you know, we we 761 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: may have to condense it a little bit. And also 762 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: please let us know if we can use your name 763 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: on the on the show and get weird with it, 764 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,719 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. My favorite listener mail is 765 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: still that guy with the uniquely infectious laugh. If you're listening, sir, 766 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: you made my day. The truck driver, the cookie truck 767 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: driver with the Hong Kong Yeah, more residents check it out. 768 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,479 Speaker 1: That's somewhere in the title of that episode. Absolutely, As 769 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: we've said time and time again, you can also join 770 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, or you 771 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: can exchange memes and barbs and and now not barbs, 772 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: definitely polite discourse with your fellow listeners. All you gotta 773 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: do is name one of the members of the crew 774 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 1: of this conspiracy posse and then you will find yourself 775 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 1: in the door. Um, if you don't want to do 776 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: any of that stuff and you'd rather just get in 777 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: touch with us in an older of fashioned ways. You 778 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: can do so by sending us an email. We are 779 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want 780 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 781 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 782 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 783 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 1: favorite shows.