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Speaker 1: This is Me Eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators

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Speaker 1: are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download

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Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play Store,

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Speaker 1: nor where you stand with on x. Okay, Yanni, tell

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Speaker 1: me about this big, big fancy played at your kids

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Speaker 1: on just got some pictures. Jennifer had to go to Helen.

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Speaker 1: It was funny. These guys came down from Helen and

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Speaker 1: Jennifer had to go to Helen and today, so we

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Speaker 1: got a Mabel doesn't go to school on Monday, so

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Speaker 1: we had to get get her play date. She guts

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Speaker 1: to go to a very fancy play date some friends

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Speaker 1: of ours on a boarding facilities. I think he was

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Speaker 1: what you'd call it, so quite a big property, bunch

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Speaker 1: of big barns, bunch of horses, hoses, some are there's

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Speaker 1: and uh, but most of them I think are just clients.

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Speaker 1: So we're like, you might not get to go ride horses,

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Speaker 1: because that's the whole thing and whatever. You probably hopefully

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Speaker 1: you just get to go and shovel some food that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm always hoping that my buddy Nate makes some

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Speaker 1: juice and they go over there and be like, no,

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Speaker 1: before you get to ride, you gotta shovel some ship.

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Speaker 1: But I started getting pictures and uh, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: check this out. They went horseback riding, they went it,

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Speaker 1: took a spin on the a t V. Then we

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Speaker 1: went and stalked to balk with my father in law

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Speaker 1: and killed it. And your daughter's got amazing stalking skills.

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Speaker 1: Must be in the jeans just like I'm like, great, man, Like,

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Speaker 1: can I come over tomorrow and have a play dates?

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Speaker 1: Going to want to go home? Yeah, that's all today.

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Speaker 1: Now they're going to Costco, which they love to go

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Speaker 1: and snack on all the Uh. Yeah, so I kind

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Speaker 1: of grew up like that. Actually that was just everyday life.

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Speaker 1: That's good man. It's a solid play date, right. Uh

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Speaker 1: oh quick things you know. Uh, Martha introduced yourself a

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Speaker 1: very special guest, Martha Williams. Martha Williams, tell me what

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Speaker 1: you do, Martha Williams. And I'm the director of Montana Fish,

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Speaker 1: Wildlife and Parks. Yeah, so every uh people listen to

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Speaker 1: the show should by now I have figured this out um.

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Speaker 1: Wildlife in in America is owned by the people and

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Speaker 1: it's held in trust by your states. Some exceptions like

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Speaker 1: stuff that has federal oversight because of endangered species and

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Speaker 1: migratory things, but generally wildlife is run at the state level.

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Speaker 1: All fifty states have when we just generally call a

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Speaker 1: state fish and Game agency, even though yours is fish

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Speaker 1: wildlife and fish wildlife and parks. Colorado's used to be

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Speaker 1: fishing game, but they felt there was two hunt centric

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Speaker 1: which is something we'll be talking about today, and they

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Speaker 1: revamped it to fish and wildlife so that the hunting

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't have so much sense of entitlement and ownership.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's cpw it. Oh yeah, that's right, Andy Roll. No, no, no, sorry, California.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking I'm mixing it up. Colorado became parks, Parks,

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Speaker 1: got parks, got rolled in, which is already true in Montana, Fish,

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Speaker 1: wildlife and parks, so you're in charge of three things,

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Speaker 1: um only three? Uh? Yeah. Colorado got combined with the

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Speaker 1: parks department and became what parks and wildlife. Parks actually

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Speaker 1: separated in Colorado and then joined back up. It's like

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Speaker 1: people to get married a bunch of times. Only people

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Speaker 1: talk about it that way. Really they were together and

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Speaker 1: flew it up and got back together and divorced, step children, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that. And then it was California that

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Speaker 1: had to stop being fishing game because I felt it

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Speaker 1: was like there's a connotation of like there's a connotation

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Speaker 1: of shooting and killing and whatnot. So they changed it

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Speaker 1: to wildlife, which is fine because Montana has always been wildlife.

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Speaker 1: But it's changed, it hasn't Some people still call us

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Speaker 1: fishing game. Yeah, we've been this is the voice of

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Speaker 1: Martha's minder. That's a tough job. Uh yeah. So were yeah,

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Speaker 1: Greg Lemon, Uh we were. It was in the seventies

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Speaker 1: when we switched to fishing wildlife, so we were early

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Speaker 1: on on the switch. But we are still in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: Montana went from fishing game to fishing wildlife. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: but you would I would have been like back then,

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Speaker 1: I've been like I was the world coming to well,

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Speaker 1: you can walk, you can produce at Who's gonna call

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Speaker 1: us fishing game? You know? By the folks in the

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Speaker 1: in the who are standing in our lobby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they'll old timers still calls fishing games. Oh yeah, it

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Speaker 1: will always be fishing games. Where I grew up, it

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Speaker 1: was everyone knew that it was the d n r

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Speaker 1: R Department and Natural Resource point being how to get

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Speaker 1: on this? Oh yeah, uh I why was I talking

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Speaker 1: about how states manage that the wildlife manage at the

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Speaker 1: state level? Public? Yeah, well you yeah, we'll get into

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Speaker 1: that hardcore. But Martha, you oversee run one of these

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Speaker 1: right where in the fourth largest state not by population,

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Speaker 1: but by land masks well and more importantly the best

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Speaker 1: of wildlife resources. No, man, I don't think so. Your

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Speaker 1: number your number three after Alaska? Your number three three?

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Speaker 1: I feel yeah, I feel like Alaska. Wait did I

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Speaker 1: just can see that? Tell me what the other two do?

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Speaker 1: Not have a run in debate about this? But um like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like woman's got a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a tot like a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a Why do you say that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know? Oh, I thank you mostly to say

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Speaker 1: that because there's less people. Yeah, and I'm just one

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Speaker 1: of those kinds of people that always feels like I

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Speaker 1: should be somewhere else. Um quick thing, All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get back to that one, won't we Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got some No, I got some things I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about. These are like little we do some little

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Speaker 1: news items up top. But some of these news items

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Speaker 1: are actually good because you'd be able to give your

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Speaker 1: perspective on them. One of the news items is I

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Speaker 1: wish Broody is here. Pennsylvania. It is now celebrating having

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Speaker 1: overcome the decades long battle against their blue laws and

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Speaker 1: blue laws or where you're not allowed to go hunting

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. Um. People have all kinds of reasons why

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Speaker 1: you can't go hunting on Sunday. It seems like the

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Speaker 1: good money is that the idea that people felt that

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Speaker 1: you were it was competing with with church. Um, so

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Speaker 1: you weren't supposed to hunt on Sunday. And then over

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Speaker 1: the years, uh, you know, people have become sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, embattled, and they kind of lost track of

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to solve in the first place. And

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Speaker 1: then you had people who hated Sunday hunting bands. The

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Speaker 1: National Shooting Sports Foundation, along with others, has been petitioning

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Speaker 1: successfully against Sunday hunting bands or blue laws in a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different states. And finally now like Pennsylvanians are

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Speaker 1: gonna be allowed to hunt a handful of Sunday's six

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Speaker 1: or something like that, which Broody is here to give

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Speaker 1: the Oh boy, No, I don't even think it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's half that. I think they added three. So

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Speaker 1: like every year, I think there was one, there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of Sundays where it's Okay, wondering Archie wondering rifle,

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Speaker 1: and then they were they still had hadn't come up

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Speaker 1: with the third day yet. I believe that's what I read,

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Speaker 1: you know, And thinking about laws like this is always

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Speaker 1: funny to Madge, like there's always laws that are around, right,

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Speaker 1: and everybody success of their around. But I think a

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Speaker 1: good test of a law would be, like, imagine that

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Speaker 1: you tried to roll it out today instead of just

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Speaker 1: having laws because we've always had them, right, constantly ask yourself,

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Speaker 1: what would happen today if you came to a state.

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Speaker 1: So someone comes to you, Martha here in Montana, UM

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Speaker 1: and they said, I got an idea. I think that

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Speaker 1: you should not be able to hunt on a Sunday. Right.

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Speaker 1: It would be a very very hard law to enact,

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Speaker 1: but states that just have it, they just got to

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Speaker 1: suck it up and have it even though everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: what but you can't get rid of it? Well, but

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Speaker 1: I think also of all the laws that we have

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Speaker 1: that I don't think you could get through now, like

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Speaker 1: some of the good ones for instance, well, I think

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Speaker 1: stream access in Montana, people think you were insane. Right,

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Speaker 1: So that's a great point. Ways, if you said I

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Speaker 1: got an idea, everyone can just once they're in the river,

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Speaker 1: they just go what they want, drive boats up and down,

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Speaker 1: paddling every which way. If people would be like, you're crazy,

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Speaker 1: not through my property. The other great examples We've talked

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Speaker 1: about it a bunch. As an example of this is

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Speaker 1: the Pittman Robertson. He came up with that right now,

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Speaker 1: Like we're like, some people are throwing around the idea

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Speaker 1: of taxing the backpack tax, and it's not very welcome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was bringing this up there that I think Yoanni

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Speaker 1: and I were driving around and we're talking about how

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Speaker 1: uh everybody I feel it's like this new awareness around

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Speaker 1: Pittman Robertson. It's been marketed well lately, right, and so

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Speaker 1: more people aware of it. And I always here and

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Speaker 1: I'll hear people um and I'll hear people throwing around

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Speaker 1: like how proud they are of the contributions that the

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Speaker 1: gun owners and shooters, hunters and shooters, How proud they

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Speaker 1: are of the contributions they make to conservation. And oftentimes

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Speaker 1: I'll be hearing this from someone and now I'll try

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Speaker 1: to imagine that same individual what their response would be

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Speaker 1: if it didn't exist, and you propose to them that

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Speaker 1: we make a rule, They're like, I got an idea.

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Speaker 1: How about the federal government comes in and they say

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Speaker 1: that there's a tax on all guns and ammunition that

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Speaker 1: goes to help animals. People would people would like, there

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Speaker 1: would be revolts in the streets over this whole Organizations

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Speaker 1: would be founded to find the organizations founded to fight

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Speaker 1: It would be like, you know, it would lead to

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine the upheaval. But now people are like,

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Speaker 1: hell yeah, Brot Pitt Roberts. I wonder what it was

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Speaker 1: like back, you know, when it passed, like what box

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Speaker 1: of shells? Overwhelming item, overwhelming support? No, not this the support,

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Speaker 1: But I wonder what it was like on the street,

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Speaker 1: Like the guy that owned the sporting goods store, you

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Speaker 1: know that sold like a fifty cent box of twin

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Speaker 1: the two shells, and all of a sudden it was

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Speaker 1: you know, cents. Yeah, I don't know, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Like on the public end, I know I

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Speaker 1: had widespread support and came from hunters at the time.

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Speaker 1: I think hunter has most been a lot different. Well yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe that because they know what they're different. I had

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Speaker 1: someone point out that it was from the depths of despair,

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Speaker 1: meaning it was at a time when there was nothing.

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Speaker 1: Wildlife was gone, and so that drastic, drastic situations lead

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Speaker 1: to drastic measures. It was brilliant though, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was brilliant. Also. I think of this all the time

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Speaker 1: when we go to the legislator. Most people don't realize

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Speaker 1: we have to get permission from the legislator to spend money,

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Speaker 1: to spend any money. And so when we go and

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Speaker 1: explain our programs, um, for any of the states to

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Speaker 1: get the federal money, Pittman, Robertson, Dingle Johnson, Um, we

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Speaker 1: have to have had our own statute ascent language. The

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Speaker 1: states had to pass statutes to say we will only

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Speaker 1: spend license money in a certain way. And Pittman, Robertson

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Speaker 1: and Dingle Johnson in a certain way or we don't

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Speaker 1: get that federal money. And so when we go ask

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Speaker 1: for permission, will you know, the legislator will say, well,

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Speaker 1: how about you do this? And we have to say

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Speaker 1: we can't. We can't do that because it's not in

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Speaker 1: the ascent language or the Pittman Robertson Dingle Johnson doesn't

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Speaker 1: let us do that. That's really hard to explain. I

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Speaker 1: want to do a couple I gotta do a couple

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Speaker 1: more quick things I gotta take care of. But can

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Speaker 1: we enter with that? We'll enter with that part of

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Speaker 1: the conversation. Um, the money thing, but a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: We we have a You don't have to have an opinion.

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Speaker 1: Are you married, Martha? I'm sorry. I Oh, that's a

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Speaker 1: hard one. I was married. My husband passed away, so

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Speaker 1: I have a an awesome boyfriend, but I'm not married.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about wedding rings from man. Oh do you

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Speaker 1: have experience with these? Um? We've had a lot of

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Speaker 1: you are you? I'm not wearing them today because I was.

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Speaker 1: I was. I usually have to on, but I was

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Speaker 1: hanging out of one of those uh tethered tree saddle

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Speaker 1: deals borrow from you all weekend. I was surprised how

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Speaker 1: comfortable and easy it was. It takes a little bit

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Speaker 1: of trust because there's no you're not standing on a

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Speaker 1: platform and see, yeah, you're just dangling around. Um and

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Speaker 1: that's not quite true anyways, But we're not getting two

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Speaker 1: into that. Because I was climbing trees and climbing, you know,

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Speaker 1: going of those ladders. I decided to take the rings

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Speaker 1: off because if it would be a really good opportunity

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Speaker 1: to get sleeved, you know, as a as a sort

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Speaker 1: of march, as a sort of public service. We've been

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Speaker 1: talking about the perils of rings. I had a I

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Speaker 1: got a fake one, rubber ones. But you know what,

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Speaker 1: I was cold one morning, got an antelopen. It fell off.

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Speaker 1: It's out on a field and wyoming somewhere. Um so

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Speaker 1: now I'm running no ring. But a guy wrote in

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Speaker 1: he was we were talking about accidents of having to people.

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Speaker 1: This guy rode in his buddy as a commercial fisherman,

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Speaker 1: and he had a bunch of crabs and like he

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Speaker 1: gets to the docks and you keep you crabs. He's

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Speaker 1: aerated tanks and he got to worrying about the crabs.

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Speaker 1: He had an aerated tank that he's gonna sell and

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Speaker 1: he wanted to go back in and check on him.

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Speaker 1: And you have to take a real long walk around

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Speaker 1: a restaurant and through the wharf, or you just jump

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Speaker 1: this big fence. His body climbs up to jump this

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Speaker 1: big fence as a chain link or cyclone fence. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: after he jumped down and slipped and whatnot. Not only

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Speaker 1: was his ring on the fence, the whole finger on

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Speaker 1: the fence. Yeah, the whole thing hanging there from a

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Speaker 1: ring on the fence. He says he, uh, he uses

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Speaker 1: this mix, this missing ring finger as a reason to

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Speaker 1: not remarry. So apparently he's married at one point in time,

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Speaker 1: and now he tells people he can't because of that.

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Speaker 1: Another guy wrote into that we're talking about when people

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Speaker 1: steal your spot. This guy took his pastor hunting ducks,

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Speaker 1: then later catches the pastor hunting the same spot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: catches his pastor hunting the same spot with two other guys.

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Speaker 1: And he switched churches. Yeah, switch churches. I'm surprised he

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Speaker 1: didn't switched religions compromising. Yeah, he wants to know, did

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Speaker 1: I overreact through this hardcore? Here? Here's a good one

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Speaker 1: for uh, Yeah, it'd be hard to pay attention to

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Speaker 1: the sermon at that point, right, yeah, yeah, what would

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Speaker 1: you be thinking? Just bad negative thoughts? Yeah, when the

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Speaker 1: pastors up there, honesty, accuracy, can I throw in on

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Speaker 1: the ring? So sure? Then I got yeah, And then

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Speaker 1: I got one last little news thing. But it's not

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Speaker 1: even news. It doesn't count as news. But I've got so.

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Speaker 1: I when I got married twelve years ago, I got

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Speaker 1: a titanium ring, specifically, why would you do that? Well,

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Speaker 1: at the time, I some I had some friends that

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Speaker 1: had him. They said, and they're like, they're indestructible. Who's

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Speaker 1: who's destroyed their ring? Anybody wear out a wedding ring? Well,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you what I do with it. So

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Speaker 1: I never carry around bottle openers. I never do. But

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Speaker 1: you can open a bottle with the titanium ring and

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Speaker 1: doesn't even it doesn't even mark it up, just put

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Speaker 1: the cap in. Yeah, I do teeth. Yeah, but but

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Speaker 1: you can't you can't do that with a silicone. And then,

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Speaker 1: and I've been thinking about it, you know, tossing it

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Speaker 1: around like that. You know, they got to get those

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Speaker 1: off when people come in, they break their finger, they

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Speaker 1: get it off by crushing it with a vice gript

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Speaker 1: I never I never cease to keep because it's my

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Speaker 1: fear that I'm gonna get some sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: water retention, you know, sickness, and then all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden my hands gonna swell. I'm not gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to get and you because we had an emergency room

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Speaker 1: doctor right in and say do not wear the titanium

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Speaker 1: ones because we cannot grind through them. He said. When

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Speaker 1: they got to get a titanium ring off someone who's

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Speaker 1: got a hand injury, they need to crush it with

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Speaker 1: a vice or a pair of locking pliers. You can

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Speaker 1: you can only break it off. You can't cut it

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Speaker 1: off with the equipment. The equipment they have. So the

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Speaker 1: so the benefit of being able to open up beer

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Speaker 1: bottle with your ring is not does an offset? Yes,

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Speaker 1: see this the whole thing I have on my keychain.

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Speaker 1: I'm showing Greg. Now some folks call that a bottle over.

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Speaker 1: It's with me most times. One last news item. There's

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Speaker 1: a guy I don't really get. It's kind of long email.

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Speaker 1: He's in the PhD program in archaeology at the University

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Speaker 1: of Colorado, Boulder, and he's petitioning his state right now

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Speaker 1: to allow him. He doesn't think he's gonna get anywhere

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Speaker 1: with this, but he's petitioning the state of Colorado to

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Speaker 1: allow at Lattle hunting. What's your take on, at Martha.

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Speaker 1: I think we've gotten one of those before too. How

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Speaker 1: do you how do you handle it? It was like,

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Speaker 1: how do you break that one down? Yeah? Well let

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Speaker 1: me okay, uh, let's just do this. Let me I'll

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Speaker 1: try to put in a fair way like, Um, what

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Speaker 1: would be in your mind as a state director of

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Speaker 1: a wildlife agency? What are some of the things that

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Speaker 1: roll around in your head the minute someone says I

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Speaker 1: ought to be able to right kill deer with a

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Speaker 1: with an at Lattle? Oh, I mean the first thing

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Speaker 1: that comes up is fair chase. I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: what I think of what our traditional hunting methods, and

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Speaker 1: I think now other than going we typically think forward

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Speaker 1: and what technologies are pushing hunting where it goes beyond

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Speaker 1: fair chase and and has society you know, caught up

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Speaker 1: to that method or not. I don't often think of

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Speaker 1: going back. Word, Um, why wouldn't we? I guess I

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Speaker 1: guess my first question would be why wouldn't we? Rather

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Speaker 1: than starting with not, I guess it would you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know because some some states have some states

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Speaker 1: something they'd allow you to do it. Some stay it's

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Speaker 1: when you look at the rules that doesn't prohibit it.

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Speaker 1: But I would imagine the big argument against it would

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Speaker 1: be one of efficacy and like the risk of uh

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Speaker 1: maim and stuff. Can you remember some years ago there

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Speaker 1: was a huge brewha where a guy uh made a

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Speaker 1: big production how to kill the bear to spear? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it was like a whole It was in Canada, right,

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Speaker 1: kill the bear to spear in Canada. The blow up

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Speaker 1: was so bad, the social upheat, like what it was?

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Speaker 1: What I'm looking for? Ever being pissed. That's so pissed

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Speaker 1: that the province then made it illegal to spear bear

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Speaker 1: to hunt with a spear. They went from having that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't clarified a guy did it. People were so

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Speaker 1: it was so offensive to people that you kill it.

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Speaker 1: I think people look at it like it's a stunt,

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Speaker 1: like you're stunting right, and man, they were pissed and

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Speaker 1: then made it that clarified that one cannot hunt with

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Speaker 1: a spear. Well, didn't we talk about this in the

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Speaker 1: car and the way here in a way, Greg, we

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Speaker 1: weren't talking about sparing a bear, but we were talking

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Speaker 1: about in Montana, you know, UM hunting bow hunting versus

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Speaker 1: rifle and UM, is it the experience that we're allowing

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Speaker 1: people to get out and have or is it just

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Speaker 1: really um? Is it the efficacy? Is it that you

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Speaker 1: obviously you want to kill an animal with one shot

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Speaker 1: and you should be good and proficient. But um, if

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Speaker 1: we were worried just about the efficacy, would would we

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Speaker 1: then limit the opportunity we have and the and the

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Speaker 1: method of take it. I mean there's a balance there.

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Speaker 1: It is. It's like, yeah, it's it's hard to it's

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Speaker 1: when you you can go through life having it all

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Speaker 1: makes sense, like what you can can't do? And then

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Speaker 1: someone throws out a question like the atletically, what is

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Speaker 1: ant throwing board for a spear? Okay, it's the thing

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Speaker 1: you swing bo Okay yeah, and at ladle is it's

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Speaker 1: a spear, but just a mechanism by which people can

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Speaker 1: throw spears. So they archaeologists feel that fifteen thousand years

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Speaker 1: ago when this when the Western hemisphere was colonized, it

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Speaker 1: was colonized by people who hunted with at laddles. So

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Speaker 1: it's like it's a spear. But then there's a board

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Speaker 1: that you hold on to, and it's like, you know

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Speaker 1: those things, you know a good way to think about it.

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Speaker 1: You know those things when you go to a dog park.

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Speaker 1: Things use to throw tennis balls, that rippy little tennis

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Speaker 1: ball hooker and at laddles, one of those that throws

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Speaker 1: a spear. What's not even that game that those things

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Speaker 1: came from. No lawn darts, No, no, no, It's like

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Speaker 1: in a room and you have all the players have

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Speaker 1: those crescent curved Come on, Phil, I think dog throwing

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Speaker 1: dog ball hookers. No, you throw it against the wall.

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Speaker 1: It's racket ball. Oh, the track ball, the big they had,

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Speaker 1: the big Oh that was a good game. Man. That

380
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Speaker 1: little looks like a little sickle hawks the ball, whiffleball.

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Speaker 1: I think that was coming. Did you see that? Did

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Speaker 1: you see the jackass? Where they were moving, where they

383
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Speaker 1: were throwing oranges at each other with those things? Good, good,

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Speaker 1: while very very entertaining. So uh, that little thing, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'd be curiously what happens with it, but

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Speaker 1: it does like everything makes sense, like oh, you can

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Speaker 1: hold the gun, you hold the bow, and then you

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Speaker 1: don't think about it too much, and then someone proposes like, well,

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Speaker 1: why can't I do X? And it puts you in

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Speaker 1: this position where you're trying to like articulate something that

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Speaker 1: you hadn't thought to articulate, like, I don't know, why

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Speaker 1: can't you? So I don't think you should be able

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Speaker 1: to do? But why don't I think you should be

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Speaker 1: able to I think we do that all the time too.

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Speaker 1: Things come up that you've got to break it down.

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Speaker 1: How would we answer that on this question? Uh? The

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Speaker 1: statute governs some of what we can take used for

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Speaker 1: take in Montana and uh, there was a bill a

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Speaker 1: few sessions ago. No, well there was an addle addle

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Speaker 1: bill post in Montana that died in the legislature. So

401
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: someone advanced that it got its due it's got its due. Course, Yeah,

402
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: it got considered in a serious way and didn't make it.

403
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Speaker 1: Didn't make it. Uh does the state record the rationale

404
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: of things that? Do? They not record the rationale? Like

405
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Speaker 1: what it didn't make it? Does someone record sort of? Uh?

406
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Speaker 1: Is it recorded? Like the arguments against it and for

407
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: it are recorded? Not recorded? They're recorded? Uh? In like

408
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: the public records of the hearing. So there was a

409
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: public hearing on it, and those who came forward in

410
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Speaker 1: favor and those who came forward against. It's all and

411
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: the gist what they had to say would be available.

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00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: It's a legislative history. You'd love to go see what

413
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: the guy or gal who had to say. Why not?

414
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Speaker 1: And I don't why we should remember it wasn't that

415
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: long ago, No, but it was. It was when I

416
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: was still in general is him and and it wasn't. Um,

417
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: but we could track it down so you could look

418
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: at the bill number and you could you in the

419
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: sponsor because the sponsor. But what I do remember is

420
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Speaker 1: the sponsor. Sometimes sponsors are not real invested in the bill.

421
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Speaker 1: They just happen to, you know, have a constituent that

422
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Speaker 1: wants something carries, you got to be in his bonnet.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, the sponsor on this one really was, I

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Speaker 1: would think, was really interested in it. I got shot down. Yeah, yeah, thanks,

425
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: Now we'll see another proposal next session. Um, that's it

426
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: for Newsy stuff. Oh yeah, you know, a method of take.

427
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: That's the thing I find it when I'm talking to

428
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: people who aren't familiar with the hunting and rules of hunting,

429
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 1: they're often interested to hear about all the method of

430
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: take restrictions such as like in this state you can

431
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: shoot a variety of like you can shoot mountain grouse,

432
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: so with call here would be like Franklin's blues dusky. Yeah,

433
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: well now yeah, they're you're right, you're way ahead of me.

434
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: Dusky grouse, rouffed grouse, spruce grouse can be killed with

435
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: a rifle. But you can shoot me with twenty two.

436
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: You cannot shoot with the twenty two sharp tail grouse,

437
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: pheasants right, um, turkeys, you cannot shoot him with a

438
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: rifle in the spring. You can shoot him in the

439
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: rifle in the fall. There's a ton of method to

440
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: take stuff out there, people to get complicated, people like

441
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: rassling over it. Uh, all right, I'm gonna get back

442
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: to this the money thing. Um, I'm trying to think

443
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: of the enterness in the way that the most instructive

444
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: way possible. You're probably good at doing this lay out

445
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: for me, Like what layout for folks? Layout for folks?

446
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: Like what is like what it is a state Fish

447
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: and Game agency does, like one of the things you're

448
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: responsible for looking at? And then how does that get

449
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: paid for? Easy question? Thanks? Um, Well, I think we're

450
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: responsible for more than people realize, and we're responsible for

451
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: more than UM what we always get direct funding for.

452
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean, so I think fish and game, fish, wildlife

453
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: and Parks d n r's are charged with more than

454
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: people realize. In Montana, Fish Wildlife and Parks Mission is

455
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: disteward the fish, Wildlife, recreational and parks resources of Montana UM.

456
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: And we do that with the Citizen Commission, and we

457
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: do it with a board. UM. You know, so we

458
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: don't do it alone. Can you explain the Citizen Commission Somewhere?

459
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: Some states it's different. So, UM, the director I am

460
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: appointed by the governor. In some states the director is

461
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: appointed by the commission. But in Montana, the governor appoints

462
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: the director of all of the agencies. And the governor

463
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: also appoints the Fish and Wildlife Commission and the Parks

464
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: and Recreation Board. So they're the Citizen Commission. It's the

465
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Commission and the Parks and Recreation Board,

466
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: and they really are the ones that set policy and

467
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: UM help with UM allocation issues. And then you have

468
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: the legislature in Montana passes statutes that get into specific

469
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: numbers and percentage of resident versus nonresident licenses issues like that.

470
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: So the department brings proposals forward to the commission and

471
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: this is what people often call a game commission yep yea.

472
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: And those game commissions were UM. The early getting to

473
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: the origin of the Pittman Robertson Act and the restoration

474
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: of wildlife and why we funded the way we did

475
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: was early on when wildlife populations were depleted at best,

476
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, bison were decimated, birds, migratory birds were populations

477
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: were decimated, for feathers, deer, a lot, a number of

478
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: wildlife populations UM and fisheries, commercial fisheries were plummeting, and

479
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: so states created UM, the Fish and Game Commissions to

480
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: try to restore those species. So in the United States,

481
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: the states have always UH been the entity that stepped

482
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: up to manage what we think of is that the

483
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: public trust the wildlife resources in the country. And it

484
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: started with those Fish and Game Commissions and then UM

485
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: they realized, you know that that you needed that scientific underpinning,

486
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: you needed to understand what species needed or what habitat

487
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: you needed. And then the departments developed around UM giving

488
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: that expertise in the in the scientific research to know

489
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: how to manage I didn't realize that the idea of

490
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: game commissions predated the idea of a state agency. It

491
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: would just be like someone would a point a bunch

492
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: of people that had a vested interest or expertise, and

493
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: they'd be like, hey, you all get together, you figure

494
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: out if there should be a deer season or not. Yeah,

495
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: because well they stepped up because they felt like they

496
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: needed to be recovering these species. They weren't dealing with

497
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: the plethora riches that we're dealing with today, luckily me

498
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: and it was a totally different, different scenario. So there's

499
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: still this interplay between a state Fish and Game agency

500
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: and the state's commission. Yes, definitely. Is it tense? Um? Well, sure,

501
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: I mean it can be tense. I don't think it's

502
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: bad at all. I mean I are current commission. I

503
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: feel like we recognize that we have different roles, and

504
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: so instead of arguing or being tense, I think we

505
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: just realize we have different roles to play. The department

506
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: puts forward proposals, and the commission, you know, sometimes they're

507
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: put in the hardest position where they've got to vote

508
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: on these proposals. How do you get a job on

509
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: that commission? Man, I want to be on that commission

510
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: so bad you do. You should apply. How many people

511
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: are on it? There five and they're paid position. No,

512
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: they are not paid positions. I would want no one else.

513
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: I want to be the only commissioner you could. Yeah,

514
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: that's shoot for it. Are there any states where it's

515
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: an elected position that you hold? Omissioners are always pointed,

516
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: it's always I never heard of non. I don't know

517
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: of any that are elected, but I certainly I haven't

518
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: looked at the state they had to run for game

519
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: commission be suite. So you're in Montana, They're they're appointed

520
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: on different staggering terms. So there so when a governor

521
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: is a new governor's elected, there's some overlap in terms.

522
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: So um, you know, so there's continuity between one administration

523
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: to the next. And then they also represent regional area,

524
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: so there's not like five commissioners from the most populated

525
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: areas of the state. They're spread out. So um, we

526
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: have got like a commissioner from Glasgow, for instance, that

527
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: represents region that region of the state. We got your way, Sorry,

528
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: go ahead, I was just saying we got your way.

529
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: Off off off your answer, Pittman Robertson, Yeah what um, yeah,

530
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: like what what your mandate is, like how what you

531
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: do and how it all gets paid for. So, at

532
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: least in Montana, Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks, I believe

533
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: the well Montana Constitution. I could go off forever on that.

534
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: It's just a really cool document. It goes back to

535
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: the conversation of could we get a constitution through now

536
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: that looks like the one we have? I think it

537
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: would be hard. So the constitution and the statutes, UM

538
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: set up what the department does, and that is that

539
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: we um steward fish, wildlife, parks, recreational resources. And then

540
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: you add a layer to that are funding primarily comes

541
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: from selling licenses and then um that's um, let's see,

542
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: it's about fifty three million dollars. It's almost half, almost

543
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: half of the of our budget comes from license sales,

544
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: which is pretty high. Not all states are that high. Um.

545
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: And then the then the rest of it we don't get, well,

546
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: we used to not get any general fund. Um. We

547
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: we fund ourselves really through license sales. And then the Pittman, Robertson, Dingle, Johnson,

548
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservation Fund, all the different federal sources

549
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: of of match that we get. That's that's how we operate.

550
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: But you you a lot of agencies do not have

551
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: hard funding. Explain that and you do get hard funding. Yeah. Right.

552
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: So when the Pittman robertson Dingle Johnson, I think it

553
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: started as Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration Act. So the

554
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: concept started where put excise taxes on on certain equipment,

555
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, hunting, fishing equipment. When when both Dingle Johnson

556
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: and PR were passed and the states could get that

557
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: money a certain apportionment to the state, if the state

558
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: had its own statute that said the state can use

559
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: license money only for restoration of fish and wildlife and

560
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: for these you know, to help game species to the

561
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: state can't rob it's the state can't rob it's. It's

562
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: it can't be like, oh, you your department has a

563
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: bunch of money, I'm gonna take all that and spend

564
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: it on something. We have to, you know, that's right,

565
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: We have to. It's what it's called control. The Fish

566
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: and Game agency has to retain control over the money,

567
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: license money and any of that federal matching money that

568
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: comes in, so we have to retain control of it.

569
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: That's one buzzword. And then also we can't divert it

570
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: to another someone else, can't spend it, and it can't

571
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: be diverted to what's called an ineligible use. So if

572
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: you were to do that, then you become ineligible for

573
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: the federal money. And no state wants this. Most state would.

574
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: They wouldn't want to screw themselves like that, so they

575
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: don't steal your money and do an airport renovation with

576
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: it or something exactly. That's part of the brilliance of

577
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: the UM. It's the Wildlife Sport Fish Restoration Program woos

578
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: for that combines all these different UM federal pots of money.

579
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: And what's the what's the hard funding you mean, like

580
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: just like general like when someone pays just the regular taxes,

581
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: like a person lives in the state Montana elsewhere, that

582
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: doesn't come to fish wildlife. No, none of that money

583
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: comes a little bit now for our a caughtic convasive

584
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: species program. I think that's it, and not very much

585
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: of it, and that's dedicated, so you don't just get

586
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: like a general chunk like the same way the Department Transportation,

587
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: it's like just general state money or one of the

588
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: few agencies to test that. Yeah, I think that, um,

589
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, in preparing to have this conversation was one

590
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about. One of these that

591
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: really like initiated the conversation was was talking about this,

592
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: this sort of this this whole package of things that

593
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: we're discussing, meaning like who owns wildlife, who manages it,

594
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: how does it get paid for? All this is sort

595
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: of captured in this kind of hard to understand concept

596
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: of the North American model of wildlife conservation? Phil, what's

597
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: the North American model? Let's ask Phil, he don't hunt.

598
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: What's the North American model wildlife conservation? Phil? Real quick?

599
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: I could not give you a good definition. See there

600
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: you go, every man. This is just the every man

601
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: off the street. He doesn't know. Um, he doesn't. He

602
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: doesn't need to know. I'm not even mad at him

603
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: about not knowing. Um uh. But yeah, So North American

604
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: model of wildlife conservation, meaning here's a healthy way to

605
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: look at it. Look at places that don't have it, right,

606
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: It's helpful to explain like what it is by like,

607
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: look a place he doesn't have it. For instance, you

608
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: go to place like Scotland. Um, we talked it was

609
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: for in Scotland have right to Rome. You can go

610
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: wherever you want, like people can't kick you off their property.

611
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: Can you can roam around wherever you want to go.

612
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: But can you fish everywhere? Nope? Everywhere Nope. And in

613
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: Scotland here like here in the US. And let's let's

614
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: take again, because we're here talking to the state director

615
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: in Montana. UM, you might own property and there might

616
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: be elk on that property, but you do not own

617
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: those elk. They belong to the state. They blown to

618
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: the people. So like you have the you hold the

619
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: ground they sit on, but you have no more right

620
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: to them than anybody else has to them. You control

621
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: access to them, but you don't control the things themselves.

622
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: You can't box them up, you can't give him away,

623
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: you can't just shoot him when you feel like you

624
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: gotta go through all the rules everybody else has to

625
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: go through. UM. And then that's like a big part

626
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: of the North American model of wild They have conservation

627
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: and the other part of it is is that that

628
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: there's public input on management and public input on how

629
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: we pay for it all. So yeah, well I think

630
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: of that too. I don't want to get too on key,

631
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: but I actually think of what you've just explained that

632
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: UM that wildlife the the public holds wildlife in trust.

633
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: We well, the state holds wildlife and trust we manage

634
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: that asset. And the legislature is in a way the trustee,

635
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: they set the laws, we manage it. And the beneficiary

636
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: the people who benefit from that. And we need to

637
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: manage the wildlife for everybody. And that's I think more

638
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: UM derives from the public trust. And I think of

639
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: the North American model, or as the statutes and the

640
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: funding mechanisms that this country put into place that helps

641
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: fund that model, that allows us to have the public trust.

642
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: So it's kind of it's twofold, but I'm following you. Yeah,

643
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: well the reason, yeah, the reason is getting that and

644
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: you can call it as any way you want to

645
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: call it, but I think that one of the ways

646
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: it it gets important. It gets down to some of

647
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: the things we wanted to discuss today, is the wildlife

648
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: is for everyone. Right. Let's just say so here here

649
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: in a state like this, wildlife for everyone. You're supposed

650
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: to manage wildlife for everyone. Everyone has different ideas. This

651
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: is gonna be too big of a question where you're

652
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: going everyone has different ideas. Everyone's an expert about. Well,

653
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, if you're managing it for me, here's

654
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: what I would like to see happen, right. I would

655
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: like every bear that comes near my house to die.

656
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: And your job is to manage wildlife for me, because

657
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: I own it and that's what I want to do.

658
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: And then someone else, the next person down the road,

659
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: is like, since you're managing wildlife for me, um, I

660
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: want no bears to ever die. And so that's what

661
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: I want because it's my wildlife and you're just here

662
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: to manage it for me. And there's a lot of

663
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: reconciling that needs to happen. And what it throws a

664
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: little bit of a wrench into this whole thing is

665
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: that you just pointed out that people to buy hunting

666
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: and fishing licenses are paying over half of the budget

667
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: for your agency. And then another huge chunk of your

668
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: budget is coming from people who buy firearms and ammunition

669
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: and fishing equipment, another in some designated sporting goods like

670
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: bows and arrows and whatnot, so they're all footing the bill.

671
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: Talk about share with us your thoughts about how one

672
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: sort of does triage on this like whose opinion matters

673
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: the most, the one that's paying? Why you do this?

674
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: You just got right to the heart of it. Yeah,

675
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a lot there. But like, right,

676
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 1: you don't even give your own personal opinion. You don't

677
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: need to even talk about what happens here, but like

678
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: what happens when you start wrestling all of this out? Well, okay,

679
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: so awesome question. And I don't even know what the

680
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: question was. Whose opinion matters the people that pay? Are

681
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: the people that don't pay? Or is it all the same?

682
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: Do you get a bonus because you paid? Well, I'm

683
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: sure you'd like to. Um, you got a vote, although

684
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: not a specific vote. You get to engage, you get

685
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: input for sure. So I mean it goes to the

686
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: other piece of what you started with in that, UM,

687
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: we have to do our work through public engagement. So

688
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: my opinion actually really doesn't matter. UM. My opinion on

689
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: on the decision making process and guiding it to make

690
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: sure it's is fair and transparent as possible matters. But

691
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: it's the public input, UM that should guide kind of

692
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: where we go. But it's not a vote, UM, And obviously, UM,

693
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: there's always gonna it's a balancing act. I mean we

694
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: were talking about that on the on the way down.

695
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: There's very little we do that doesn't require balance. I mean,

696
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: most decisions that come to a fish and wildlife, fish, wildlife,

697
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: and parks agency parks sometimes is less controversial at fish

698
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: and wildlife. I can hardly think of many decisions that

699
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: don't require some balance. You mean to tell me that, Um,

700
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: everybody in this whole state doesn't all just agree on everything.

701
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they agree always flooding, excellent job. Hey, yeah

702
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: you're hired. No, Um, no, of course they don't. Of

703
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: course they don't. And I mean think about it. You

704
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: know you've got walleye fisherman, or a walleye fishery and

705
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: a top fishery, or you know, bears. Do we protect

706
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: bears and never kill a bear? Or do we make

707
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: sure bears don't get around shelter belts, you know on

708
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: the Rocky Mountain front. So I don't know that there's

709
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: ever going to be the perfect answer. We're always so

710
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: maybe another way to put it is, it's our job.

711
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: We're always going to make somebody mad. I mean that's

712
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: just the way it goes. So how do you do that?

713
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: First of all, I think, um, sure, we can get

714
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: hammered on so many issues. We get all these competing interests.

715
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just the nature of what we do period.

716
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: I think there's tremendous beauty in that because people are passionate.

717
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, they might be crazy passionate sometimes, but they

718
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: care and can We've talked internally, what would it feel

719
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: like if people didn't care what we did? I think

720
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: that would be worse or what I you know, what

721
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: if people didn't care about our outdoor experiences? What if

722
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: people didn't care about elk? What if people didn't care

723
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: about grizzly bears. I get what you're saying. I get

724
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 1: what you're saying, like in theory, Yeah, but it has

725
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: to be we have to embrace that would kill us.

726
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: There's two things that there are two things you said

727
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: that I that I appreciate. One that you you said

728
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: that you don't spend like what you think doesn't matter. Yeah,

729
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Do do you feel like you're pretty successful

730
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 1: at pushing down like your personal take on it? Uh?

731
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: You should ask where you're like where you're like personally,

732
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: I would never hunt with at you know, at Lettle. Therefore,

733
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: no one should like that wouldn't be something that's going

734
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: to roll through your head. No, it wouldn't roll through

735
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: my head. But but then that gets to another topic. Maybe.

736
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just my style of leadership. It's it's

737
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: a team effort. There's no way I could be director

738
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,479
Speaker 1: without really great people around me, and so for them

739
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: to be good, I feel like it's better to turn

740
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: to to push it down. But Greg, do I really

741
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: do that or do I just hope I do? No,

742
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: You're good at it. And I think I think the

743
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: other thing that this piece, the opinion piece, the other

744
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: thing that comes into this is is our science work

745
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 1: absolutely back to sort of our core role as he's

746
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: trust man will hold that thought for mixing that we'll

747
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: get into that good. Um, because that's just that that

748
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: is also a hard word. Yeah, um, which one science

749
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: or man who's got science on their side. Everybody's got

750
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: science on the side. Yeah, Well, and both sides of whatever.

751
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: When you're talking about passion, people coming to us with

752
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: a passionate you know, opinion, they both sides have. They

753
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: come with science too because they know that that that

754
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: we are in the realm of science. And so that

755
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: with the conversation is not just about I like this

756
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: or I like that, it's I want this to happen

757
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: based on this science. Yeah, but I think what's what

758
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: we're getting this a little bit in a minute. But

759
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: what scientific is incredibly unscientific and its social science is science?

760
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there you go. It's a lot of there's

761
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: a lot of social science tied up into science. But

762
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: when you said that, you liked that everyone's engaged. Really

763
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: so when when there's a hot button issue, I mean

764
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: I have to there's a hot button issue, you have

765
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: a hearing right or like a public comment period, and

766
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: you come in and there's right everyone's in there ready

767
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: to kill them kill each other over this thing. You

768
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: have people that like take wolves like that that incites

769
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: a lot of passion. You have people who are like,

770
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, kill them all that God sort them out.

771
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: People who are like, you know, wolves are you know,

772
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: are higher than unicorns on the list of what sacred

773
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: and um, and you're like, oh great, everybody showed up.

774
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 1: I'm so happy they have opinions. I am. Well, I mean, think, okay,

775
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: just think about that. UM would if we showed up

776
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: to talk about wolves and there were three people in

777
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: the room. I would turn to Greg and say, we

778
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 1: did something wrong. We missed the boat here, we missed

779
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: reaching out to people. If only three people show up

780
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: talking about wolves, Yeah, wouldn't that be scarier? I mean seriously,

781
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: it would meet. Would that mean that people just uh,

782
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 1: we don't really care? Do you get overall good participation?

783
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: Like if if it's not something like a wolf or

784
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: a you know, buffalo or something big and charismatic, you know,

785
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: like when there's a meeting on I don't know, give

786
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: me an example. Will be an example of something that

787
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: doesn't get a lot of public excitement. Well, it doesn't

788
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: happen every two years. So we set our regulations every

789
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: two years are hunting regulations, and so that we go

790
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: through all like the quotas and everything else we go through.

791
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: It's a all the regulation booklets. I mean, it's all

792
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: that information has done every two years in our season

793
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: setting process. And there's portions of that that are always controversial.

794
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: But there are some pieces of that drop that will

795
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: will hold the meeting where we'll outnumber the public participants

796
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: at the meeting. There'll be five f WP people and

797
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,479
Speaker 1: two U yes. So no, that is a bad sign.

798
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: Regulation gosh, you think we'd all show up for regulations meeting.

799
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: I haven't shown up neither. But to be fair too,

800
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: I mean we are like other agencies who are trying

801
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: to think of are there other ways to engage the public?

802
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: If if people stop showing up at public hearings, should

803
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: we be reaching out to them in different ways? All right?

804
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: I want to I wanna move back a little bit.

805
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: So there's something I want to hit on more like precisely,

806
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: um the funding question? Ye? Like? Like seriously, how like

807
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: what does an eight How does an agency view the fact?

808
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: How does an agency view the idea that all people's

809
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: opinions matter? Right? Everyone should have an opinion at the table,

810
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: but then only some of the people are funding the structure?

811
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 1: M h, what's your like? How do you view that?

812
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: Is that viewed as a problem? Is if you just

813
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: like a fact of life? Do you feel that people

814
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: within a state, fish modelife agency do they sort of

815
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: overserve the payers? Are there is there an idea that

816
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: like those are the ones we should keep happy because

817
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: they're paying for it all? How do you wrestle that?

818
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, you know, I know what I like?

819
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 1: Where are you going with that I don't know, I'm asking.

820
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: It's got to be something that comes up totally. Yeah,

821
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: I mean that's a fair question. So yes, it's a

822
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: fact of life because it is what it is, it's

823
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: what we've had in place. Um. Yes, I think we

824
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: pay you know, in all fairness, we pay close attention

825
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: to what's our traditional base. So the people who pay, yes,

826
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 1: we have to pay attention to them, and I believe

827
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: we always will. With that said, Um, they can't be

828
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: the only voice if if other people comment. Um. I

829
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 1: sometimes get people asking me like, how could you meet

830
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: with such and such? And my answer is, because I'm

831
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: a public servant, I meet with who asks me to

832
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,720
Speaker 1: meet with them. You know, I can't cut a voice

833
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: out because it's not popular. So I believe we have

834
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: to listen to all voices. But I mean, yeah, we

835
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: there is a certain skew toward our traditional base because

836
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: that's who we're used to working with. And I would say, um,

837
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: we don't want to lose them. I mean, we are

838
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: in the business of perpetuating of um, encouraging getting outside

839
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: that experience outside. We want people to hunt, we want

840
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: people to fish. That's not the only thing we want

841
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: them to do. But um, we do want that heritage

842
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: in that tradition to continue. So is it tricky sometimes yes,

843
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean you know it's we're we're perpetuating a tradition.

844
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: At the same time, we use science and we try

845
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: to listen to all perspectives to come up with the

846
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: best solution we can best proposal. Is it a lot harder,

847
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: Let's like take that from it. Like, in a state

848
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 1: like this, um, hunting is a big economic driver, right,

849
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of economic activity that occurs around hunting.

850
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: So you could look like one can go and make

851
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: this argument. They can look at dear chronic wasting disease, right,

852
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: Like chronic wasting disease could come and have a big

853
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: impact on public perception of hunting and participation and could

854
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: cost communities. Like there's a community and they have high

855
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 1: sea w D prevalence, people are gonna go hunt somewhere

856
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: else and that is bad for business for people to

857
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: have hotels and right, so all this stuff goes on

858
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: around it and you look and you'd be like, man,

859
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: we need to protect this thing. Um, I think I

860
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: look at the thing envy about Alaska for instances, how

861
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: jealously they guard their salmon sources because commercial huge commercial business,

862
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: huge recreational business, Like don't go to Alaska and mess

863
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 1: with salmon, Like it's not gonna go well for you.

864
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: But what about like when you want to Yeah, so

865
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: then you take like, oh, there's a big problem with hummingbirds.

866
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: Um is that tough? Is it? Like hard to get

867
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: like the the agency momentum and the money and the

868
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: support to go do something where no one can come

869
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: and argue to you about the economic impact of hummingbirds.

870
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: Do hummingbirds tend to get like forgotten? Um? Not them specifically,

871
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, Like if people are like, hey,

872
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: hunters pay for this, elk is economic driver all this stuff,

873
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: Like what do you do, Like, how do you begin

874
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: to think about and address issues of people like that.

875
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: We're not I'm not calling you up the buggy about it.

876
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 1: I guess that people aren't. I'm guessing that people don't

877
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 1: every day call you to make sure hummingbirds are okay. Yeah, Well,

878
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: I think about a bunch of ways. One, I mean,

879
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: that's the whole point of recovering America's Wildlife Act and

880
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: all the precursors to precursors to that, you know, teaming

881
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: with wildlife Cara, Blue Ribbon Panel, whatever, or the states

882
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: that have a mechanism to help pay for to add

883
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: the funding of a wildlife agency so they can get

884
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: to um hummingbirds and our species. You hadn't even heard

885
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: of um so, so that would be helpful and I

886
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: think it's needed. Absolutely the challenge I have like an

887
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,720
Speaker 1: outside additional well, I think so so that we can

888
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 1: get to those other species that we haven't. I mean,

889
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: what in Montana we have? How many species do we have?

890
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: Greg a lot of wildlife and you got nine big,

891
00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: we have five hundred, we have five four. I just

892
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: happen to have this at my fingertip, uh fish and

893
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: wildlife species in the state, and how many of those are?

894
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: Then you realized we have a uhi four total fish

895
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: and wildlife species and eighty game species. But here's the thing.

896
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: What about ones that are like uh not as curious?

897
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 1: Take like the short tailed weasel. Now he's non game,

898
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: but take is permissible. So is he in that? Is

899
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: he in the eighty or the five? UM I might

900
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: so I would assume that he would be in the

901
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: eighty if we have a permissible take. But we have seven.

902
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: We have seventeen species that are federally protected or warranted.

903
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: Federally protected or warranted, So we have responsibility over all

904
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: five hundred species, and if we had better funding have

905
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: not as many. You maybe wouldn't have seventeen, although that's

906
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: not that high, um, that are federally protected. I mean

907
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: the point is, I think if we had more capacity

908
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: and resources to get to the other species of you know,

909
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: to the five hundred, then um, I would hope if

910
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: fewer need that federal protection. Well. And so one another

911
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: twist in this is of our budget goes to the

912
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: wildlife species. Management of the wildlife species of the budget

913
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: goes And that's why I'm guessing or fishing game that

914
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: people pursue the game species plus the the ones that

915
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: either require statement they require state management, like there's species

916
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: of special concern or they're federally protected. And so that

917
00:56:56,200 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: answers your question of UM, people who buy licenses and

918
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,479
Speaker 1: or ammunition or fishing gear are I think they got

919
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: a pretty good return. Yeah that's interesting, man, But I'm

920
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: thankful for them too. Oh yeah, they're not doing anything wrong.

921
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: There's buying their license. Yeah, there's a lot of like

922
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, in in our world, we hear all these

923
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: different ideas people throw out about other ways to get,

924
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: other ways to other people should pay to, right, And

925
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I like that at or not,

926
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: because I don't know if we've played that all the

927
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: way out, should we? Oh? Okay, So I'll give it

928
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: like I'll give a commonly held perception about it to

929
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: be that right now, all this money comes in and

930
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: goes to either like the listed stuff or it goes

931
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: the game right, research on game um enforcement, all this

932
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So some people it often comes up,

933
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: this idea, and Janice brought it up earlier that there

934
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: should be some there's this kind of like this nascent

935
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: concept of a backpack tax, meaning that there should that

936
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: other people should be paying money. Um. You, when you

937
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: buy a backpack, it should be taxed the same way

938
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: if you buy a rifle, it's tax, and that that

939
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: tax from your backpack should go to help pay for

940
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: or binoculars. They're not rolled in, No, they're not. Are

941
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: they rifle scopes? I think are, but I don't think

942
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: but not it doesn't catch binoculars. So but but when

943
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: I say backpacktacks, I don't mean like, let's just say

944
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: I don't mean like specifically backpacks, well like taxes on

945
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: other stuff to help flood money. But I think people

946
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: bring up as people who have a strong voice that

947
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: already have a seat at the table. And if you

948
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: like hunting fish, you put you Typically some states I

949
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't say this is true, but generally if you hunting fish,

950
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: you have a big seat at the table. Um You're

951
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: your needs are being heard. That by bringing in all

952
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: the payers, that people think that these other payers are

953
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: going to come with expectations. So do you think so

954
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: those people think of it as a ply and there

955
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: are only so many slices, and so they're not going

956
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: to want more people there because when their slice gets

957
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: a little thinner, I don't thinky being how much attention

958
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: can be paid to your knees. Yeah, but I don't

959
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,959
Speaker 1: think of it as supply. I mean you can look

960
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: at it that way, and I get it, and I

961
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: think we have to pay attention to that. So um fish,

962
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: state fish and wildlife agencies. I think we need to

963
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: do everything we can to provide the best service we

964
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: can to the people who pay absolutely and if we

965
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: could grow capacity, then we could pay better attention to

966
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: some of the other species, and that funding could help there.

967
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: So I don't you know. I can I appreciate the

968
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: worry of losing some power or influence on the decisions,

969
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,959
Speaker 1: but I think that looks at it as a pie

970
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: instead of realizing actually that it's more than that. It's

971
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: not a finite resource. It's something that if we had

972
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: more money, we could build capacity and address other things

973
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: as well, and not let go of our traditional constituency.

974
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: We still need to pay attention to them. That's not

975
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: the point. Isn't to move away from what we've has done,

976
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: it's to build more. I think where that question becomes

977
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: interesting is um probably the last word, like one of

978
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: the last words. Hear wolves, right, wolves? So let's just say,

979
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: let's say that, do you have a how do you

980
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: add noises? Anything? Can do a vehicle and really far

981
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: away though, have you ever heard this? He'll do it?

982
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: Can I hear it way off in the wind? That's good.

983
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: It sounds like he's like five miles away. It's sort

984
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: of amazing to hear it in real life. It's just

985
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: remarkable since chills your neck. Uh, But I don't think

986
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: he can do it. He do a wolf way off. Ye, No, Phil,

987
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: good job pill Um. Okay, take wolves. No, let's just

988
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: say thanks for picking an easy man. Um, take wolves.

989
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 1: Let's say that there's a thing you have to buy like,

990
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: but let's just there's some enforceable way to do this,

991
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: some hypothetical, weird way in which you have a you

992
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: need a license to see a wolf. Okay. I don't

993
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: know how you do this, but it just minds up

994
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: being the same way you need a license to fish,

995
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 1: you need a license to see a wolf. I don't

996
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: know if I like where you're going. Hear me, so,

997
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: and you say this license is twenty bucks, right, And

998
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're selling hundreds of thousands of

999
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: these wolf seeing licenses, okay, and it becomes a big thing,

1000
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: and a big part of your budget comes to people

1001
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: buying wolf seeing licenses. At that point, at some point,

1002
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: there's gonna be this like I use the word reckoning earlier.

1003
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: At some point there's gonna be like this reckoning between

1004
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: big game like big game hunters who want to see

1005
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: wolf I'm just speaking very generally. I mean, there are

1006
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: many folds within this, but I would think it's it's

1007
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: safe to say that in general, big game hunters harbor

1008
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: some apprehensions about having to what they would qualify as

1009
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: too many wolves on the landscape because it's can be

1010
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: detrimental to deer and elk hunting, because it can lead

1011
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: to declines and deer knock. They would that's an argument

1012
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: they would make. Other people would argue that, um, it

1013
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, let nature play its course, blah blah blah,

1014
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't have any harvest wolves and there should

1015
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: just be a many wolves out there as possible now

1016
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 1: the minute that if you have a wolf viewing license,

1017
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're gonna have you'd have like

1018
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 1: this paying constituency of people, and you would probably feel

1019
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: a pressure to maximize wolf sightings because you could the

1020
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: same way people feel pressure now to have a lot

1021
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: of deer in alcout to satisfy guys like me, Like,

1022
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: can you imagine a situation like this where having more

1023
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,959
Speaker 1: payers come in with more opinions that you would where

1024
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: you where it winds up being that, uh, where it

1025
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: winds up being that there is a battle. It's not

1026
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,439
Speaker 1: like that the pie gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Well,

1027
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: we already get those opinions now all those opinions anyway, UM,

1028
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,439
Speaker 1: and most species are managed now, I mean a lot

1029
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: of species are conservation dependent or well just that we

1030
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: as humans have intervened on behalf of a number of species,

1031
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: whether to help recover them, like think of grizzly bears

1032
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: and wolves. We wouldn't have the numbers we have now

1033
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: in the landscape if we hadn't spent so much time

1034
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: and money trying to recover them. Yeah, that's a really

1035
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: good point. It's an interesting point because I think that

1036
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: some people fail to see that. They feel that those

1037
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: are there in the absence of action. Right, No, I'm

1038
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,479
Speaker 1: conservation I like that conservation dependent is there because someone

1039
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: is paying to have them there. Well, yeah, we've we've

1040
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: managed we have you know, we've touched them in some way.

1041
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: UM and wolves, right, you know, I mean we reintroduce them,

1042
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: not we not fish, wildlife and parks. Because I've had

1043
01:04:56,320 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: somebody point their finger in my chest furious about me

1044
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: and reintroducing wolves, and I think, yeah, yeah, to take

1045
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: I can't take credit for that. I'm not quite that old.

1046
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 1: But anyway, it was real quick. That was UM an

1047
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: idea that was initiated at the federal level into varying

1048
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: degrees that the impacted states were responded, Yeah, we're brought

1049
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 1: in and it all happen. It was it was something

1050
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: that came from the federal level, right, did not come

1051
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: from a state that states either had to like figure

1052
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: out how to work with it or there was no

1053
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: option to not figure out how to work with it. Right,

1054
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: it was happening. So you have species that we've helped recover, um.

1055
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: And then you know, obviously the species that we have

1056
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 1: seasons on are allowed take there some management there. Um.

1057
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: So we just have had a hand in so many

1058
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: species across the landscape. Think of fit shouldn't think of

1059
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: water and returning you know in stream flows or the

1060
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: habitat you know, the whole point of habitat conservation. Um,

1061
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: we've just had a hand in a lot of that.

1062
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: So where am I going with that? Just there's it's

1063
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: complicated first of all, and the science has complicated and

1064
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: the social pieces are complicated. I don't see, um the

1065
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: ability you know, were you to have a wildlife viewing license,

1066
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: which I question that because it's a public resource, but

1067
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,439
Speaker 1: there are some Yeah, there's a license you got together

1068
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: like the McNeil Bear Viewing area up in Catmire somewhere

1069
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: you gotta like buy you gotta like apply for a

1070
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: tag to look at that go in and see them

1071
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: to go into the area. Ye okay, so um, but

1072
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: that's more of a it's an access to it. It's

1073
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: not like you're buying a license to look at your

1074
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: access you're getting You're getting a permit to go let's say,

1075
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: just like to get a permit to full the Grand Canyon, right, Yeah,

1076
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: So it's not a rock viewing license, it's a permitive

1077
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: right when I mean, you know, if we were to

1078
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: play this out too, when we get so much pressure

1079
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: in certain places, that might happen. You know, how many

1080
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: people do you want to when you love a resource

1081
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: to death? Can that happen? But so say you even

1082
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: have that kind of input, you're still I can't imagine

1083
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: a day when state fish and wildlife agencies don't need

1084
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: hunters to help manage a species. I don't want. I

1085
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to make our our staff, our employees go

1086
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: out and be the I mean, I remember the days

1087
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 1: of the firing squad of bison coming out of Yellowstone

1088
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: versus having hunters do it. So I don't see I

1089
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: just playing it out. I don't see hunting going away

1090
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons, but one is that management

1091
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: an aspect, and I think it'd be ugly to have

1092
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: firing squads instead of having that opportunity to be outside.

1093
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: And also this sustainability point, what's in your freezer? You know?

1094
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: I have elk in my freezer and I don't. I

1095
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: don't typically buy meat, and I think many people who

1096
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: hunt and live in Montana they hunt in part for that.

1097
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: They hunt for the experience, but they also want the food.

1098
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 1: Do you guys didn always strongly advocate like pro hunting

1099
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: or I guess not so much that you'd be advocating

1100
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 1: pro hunting, But when it seems like lately every time, um,

1101
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: we have an opportunity, there's like an anti trapping bill

1102
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: that seems to come up. Right, So they're probably not

1103
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: a huge part of that fifty million dollars that comes in,

1104
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: but there's some and some people look at it like

1105
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: that's just the edge and if that goes, then the

1106
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: next thing is bow hunting or whatever. So does does

1107
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: FWP always stand at that front line and try to

1108
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: protect that? Yeah, that depends who you ask I would

1109
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: say many trappers would argue we don't enough. The anti

1110
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: trapping people would say we do too much. Um, I

1111
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 1: think we it's a balance that's that's not easy. We

1112
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: support trapping as a harvest heritage. We support trapping, and

1113
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 1: I don't think we wanted we don't want it to

1114
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: go away as a part of our heritage. At the

1115
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: same time, it's I don't think we should be too

1116
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 1: far out on that on the front line there because

1117
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 1: we're we're not set up to be an advocacy organization.

1118
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: An example is when there's like a trapping initiative, it's

1119
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: against the law for our agency to take a stance

1120
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: on an initiative. We don't step into that political fray.

1121
01:09:56,840 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: Remember when the when they were a few years ago,

1122
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: there was that there was a public vote out referendum

1123
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: and it was a band trapping on public land. And

1124
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: I feel like it was someone within Phishing Game who

1125
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: was talking about, we don't have the money to deal

1126
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: with all of the beaver complaints that would happen if

1127
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: people couldn't trap beavers. So that was before I was director,

1128
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: But I think we um we got challenged actually on

1129
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: on um a piece of of well, I think it

1130
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,479
Speaker 1: was like a trailer or something. We got challenged on

1131
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: going too far an advocacy toward UM trapping, right, So

1132
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: someone pointed out, like, you're not that's not your job,

1133
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: stay out of it. Not you specifically, but someone within

1134
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: the agency. So we have a we have a fur

1135
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: bear trailer that we we we loaned to trapping groups

1136
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:04,240
Speaker 1: to do helped do education on trapping. And the circumstance

1137
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: was this trailer was being used by a trapping group

1138
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: that was also at the time where they were using

1139
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: the trailer, they were also they were also advocating in

1140
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: opposition to this UH ballot initiative. So the we were

1141
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: we were challenged because we were they looked at us

1142
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: as having playing politics right, And so as soon as

1143
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: what the specifics of that, as soon as we found

1144
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 1: out that that we were in that sort of area conflict,

1145
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: we just took the trailer back. But that wasn't enough

1146
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: to ward off lawsuit. But in that situation you can't

1147
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: So let's say there's a trapping band situation, you can't

1148
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: come out and say, um, you can't come out the

1149
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: voters and be like, I can tell you one thing.

1150
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: Fish Walllife parks don't like it. That's really an initiative

1151
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,559
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a that's a statue you. So,

1152
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's different in other states, but

1153
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 1: that's it. But at the time, at the moment, we

1154
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: do say, um, we think trapping is an important part

1155
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: of our harvest heritage, and the harvest heritage comes from

1156
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 1: the Constitution. That's why we say it that way. So

1157
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 1: it sounds like a very buzzy word like it would

1158
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 1: be like cool to say these days, but you're saying

1159
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: that it's been, that's been. Yeah. So but what you raise, though,

1160
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: is a really good question on what's the department's role when, um,

1161
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:44,480
Speaker 1: we see societal changes and when you know, perceived ethics

1162
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:49,679
Speaker 1: of trapping or a certain method of take or when

1163
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: there's a shift, what is our role and how do

1164
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: we play into that? And I I don't have a

1165
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: good answer to that, but I think you've you've hit

1166
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: something that we totally have to pay attention to. We

1167
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: know our educational programs are really important, trapping education, hunter education, UM,

1168
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 1: aquatic aid, all the parks. We do a lot of

1169
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: education in our parks. So so I mean, you know,

1170
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: there's a role for education and and continuing this sort

1171
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: of heritage peace education doesn't count as direct advocacy, well,

1172
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter. It's it's the length the legislator,

1173
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: the statutes specific to like ballot initiatives or something like.

1174
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, so we we do we provide this so

1175
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: this trailer, this trapping trailer for bearer trailer, we talked

1176
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 1: about that. We we loan that out all the time

1177
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: and we provide grand money to um I guess Montrana

1178
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: Trappers Association is a group to help with some of

1179
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: their educational programming. So we do on that in that standpoint,

1180
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:05,480
Speaker 1: we're supportive of that on all sorts of different fronts.

1181
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: It's the when there's a ballot initiative specific and that's

1182
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: it's just come up in the last few years with

1183
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: the trapping initiatives. That's where we don't take a stance.

1184
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 1: We're prohibited by a lot of take a stance. And

1185
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 1: I think that's to your point. I think that's what

1186
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: raises some people's frustrations. They say, well, you're the agency

1187
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: that licenses licenses this activity, you should be advocating for it, right,

1188
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: But then you're iss. You can get a certain point

1189
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 1: where it hits whatever in its process of enactment where

1190
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: you're like, right, you're at that point you gotta be like,

1191
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,640
Speaker 1: my opinion is now stepping away, and you know what,

1192
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: I feel like that happens all the time too, when

1193
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: someone doesn't like something we've done, or they don't like

1194
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 1: what we haven't done. Where we're quiet, it's really hard

1195
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: to explain to people what our sideboards are to say

1196
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: we can't do that, and I nice, I'm thinking like

1197
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: with bear management now, I'm thinking of when we UM

1198
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: say when a legislator, legislator says, i'd like you to

1199
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 1: spend Pittman Robertson on UM enforcement, and we say, but

1200
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: we can't do that because it's not an ELI, it's

1201
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 1: not eligible under Pittman Robertson. It's really hard to describe

1202
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 1: those things. That's where you know, the engaged public, they're passionate,

1203
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 1: that's awesome, but sometimes they don't believe us when we say, well,

1204
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: we can't do that under the Endangered Species Actor, we

1205
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: can't do that under Pittman Robertson. And but we end

1206
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: we can do this. So that's just you know the

1207
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:47,719
Speaker 1: nature of our our work. You know, seldom to someone

1208
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: come up to me and say something like, you know,

1209
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 1: who does the hell of a job wildlife? And by

1210
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: some I mean and I put gas in my car

1211
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: at the gas station and I got lots of comments

1212
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: like tearing it up. I find myself in a situation

1213
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: where I do try to like, um, do try to

1214
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: talk not just you guys specifically, but everyone. I try

1215
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: to say, like all in all, like when I stepped

1216
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: back and sort of look at the country. Um, oh no,

1217
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: I feel like fishing gaming agencies like that system works.

1218
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean there's some wrinkles here and there, but I

1219
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:31,160
Speaker 1: mean generally everybody can go hunt and fishing, you know,

1220
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 1: like in very like broad general points, like something's functioning

1221
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: well and there's mechanisms where you come and follow your complaints.

1222
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 1: But in terms of like no one does anything right?

1223
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: Do you guys feel like you should be able to

1224
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:49,800
Speaker 1: take a victory lap about wolves now, because like, by

1225
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 1: and large, they're pretty well they're not all gone. They

1226
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: didn't go back extinct, right. Uh. People aren't super frustrated

1227
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: because when they got to like stand helplessly buy and

1228
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 1: watch them slaughter all their cows out in the in

1229
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 1: the by the haystack, it's like, did you get to

1230
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:10,679
Speaker 1: go like I told you? No, No, we never get

1231
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,759
Speaker 1: to do that. No. I mean I think we should

1232
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: celebrate recovery when they're Yeah, you can celebrate it, But

1233
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: um no, I don't think it's ever. That's a mistake

1234
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: people make. I believe with the Endangered Species Act, where

1235
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 1: certain species they view it as a switch, like they're

1236
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: not enough and then all of a sudden, we're okay

1237
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 1: and you can walk away. I don't think wildlife listens

1238
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 1: to us power switch. You know that it's okay one

1239
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: day and not okay the other day. Okay again, it's

1240
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: part of a continuum. So is it a success that's

1241
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: we're celebrating. Yes, but as our work ever done? No,

1242
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: because there are plenty of people who would like to

1243
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 1: have fewer wolves in northwest Montana, and yet there are

1244
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: people around Yellowstone who use wolf. Wolf watching is an

1245
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: important economic driver. I would like to see more. So

1246
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: we're not naive enough to think that our work is done.

1247
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:12,680
Speaker 1: You never like, got it permanent? Yeah, got it? We

1248
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: can learn from good things. I'll promise not to bring

1249
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 1: up wolves anymore. I'm only bring I mean I want

1250
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: to say that because not that you have a problem

1251
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: with me, bring them up. But imagine it's just like

1252
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:23,759
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that probably if you imagine

1253
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: how many like like you, Matt, you were talked early

1254
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: about how a big like a piece of pie is.

1255
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: If I imagine your brain as a chunk of pie,

1256
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:36,719
Speaker 1: the wolf slice, it's probably big. Well, the elve slice

1257
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: is big. Well what's bigger the wolf slice of the

1258
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: elk slice? Well, it depends on the year, depends on

1259
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: the year. But I feel like when I go talk

1260
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: to landowners, like I can go talk to landowners about

1261
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: wolves or bears and they'll pull me aside and they'll say, listen,

1262
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: what I really want to talk to you about is hell.

1263
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 1: So if you imagine, like where are your sort of thoughts,

1264
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: Like if you made and there's this pie and it's

1265
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: your head and there's the wedges representing different animals, and

1266
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: I'm saying, this is what you wish you could think about.

1267
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:09,160
Speaker 1: But just like when it all said and done, and

1268
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: all the things you got to look at and consider, Um, grizzlies, wolves,

1269
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:19,679
Speaker 1: elk are big, huge pieces of pie. They are, and

1270
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 1: they're like the whole pie budget personnel. Fish, No, it's

1271
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: only animal pie, climate change, aquatic invasive species disease, chronic

1272
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: wasting disease. So you're not willing to just have it

1273
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 1: be an animal pie. Listen, I wish it was only

1274
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 1: an animal pie. The harder things sometimes are are the

1275
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: human the human pieces of the pie. There was a

1276
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: Commission meeting just uh six weeks ago where a chunk

1277
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: of the meeting was on a good chunk was on trout,

1278
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 1: kind of a trout versus walleye debate. Oh, and it

1279
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: was as animated our meetings, can people getting okay, give

1280
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: me the just give me give me real quick. What

1281
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: are the what? What are the what? We're talking cutthroats

1282
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 1: and we're talking other inters. So trying to introduce rainbows

1283
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 1: versus introduced walleyes. What were we talking about? Well, so

1284
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 1: the it was the Upper Missouri River Reservoir plan where

1285
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:28,600
Speaker 1: we have a multi species system that includes very healthy

1286
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 1: walleye fisheries and a very healthy rainbow trout. So it's

1287
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:40,440
Speaker 1: rainbow rainbow v. Walleye. Well, when how would you balance

1288
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: them or not? Yeah, the rainbows aren't from here anyways.

1289
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: This is one introduced the think that yeah, there's no

1290
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: way that one didn't come up that river high enough?

1291
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 1: Are you? So are you on the you are on

1292
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: the on the side of the debate that Wally I

1293
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: or a Montana native. Let's just say, okay, do I

1294
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 1: think the historically, Wally, we're coming up the Missouri far

1295
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 1: enough to hit Montana. I mean, of course, come on, fishty,

1296
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,479
Speaker 1: wild stuff, right, fish turn up. I mean you have

1297
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: a wolf from the up of Missually the winds up

1298
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 1: down in Missouri, so it's like a wolf wind up

1299
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: there here to the wall, I wind up there. How

1300
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: about the Upper Missouri waters head though I don't know

1301
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: how high up well that one got lost and well

1302
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 1: so historically from from from what our research has are

1303
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 1: not ours, But I mean the research we've collected and

1304
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 1: looked at the Great Falls was a barrier. So above

1305
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 1: Great Falls was cutthroat west slope cutthroat fishery, which is

1306
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of cool. But you know, with with dams and

1307
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: everything else. I mean, there's no doubt that we have

1308
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 1: some we have some spectacular walleye fishing in the Upper

1309
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 1: Missouri reservoirs, but so so the multi more about what

1310
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 1: I want to clarify, what I think all to happen

1311
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 1: if it's wal ivy cutthroat. Cutthroat win because they're native fish,

1312
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: super native fish and imperiled and to some extent wal

1313
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: ivy rainbow. I'm justest gonna go with walls. I like

1314
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 1: them better. Yeah. Well so the so the to the

1315
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 1: balance that we do is we manage for both of them.

1316
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: So we we in this one. We try trying to

1317
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:33,639
Speaker 1: keep everybody happy. We're trying not to pick winners and losers,

1318
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:38,520
Speaker 1: and uh, it's throwing the mix, uh the perch fishery

1319
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 1: which is really important to the to the both the

1320
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:45,320
Speaker 1: walleye and the rainbow fishery. And so there's a lot

1321
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 1: of going there's a lot of moving parts in that

1322
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 1: Upper Missouri Reservoir plan. But right downstream of the last

1323
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 1: damn is the fabled Missouri blue ribbon trout fishery, the

1324
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:03,880
Speaker 1: tail water fishery where up until this is just meeting,

1325
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:07,639
Speaker 1: we were it was an unlimited take on walleye because

1326
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: there was just no we didn't want any walleye in that.

1327
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: And that's where the heat got into the room. Was

1328
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 1: trying to you know, the passion on both sides of

1329
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: the fishery debate. Man. That's that's an interesting point because

1330
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 1: there's a there's a thing where you know, you can

1331
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: use set lines in the Lorielstone. It's like a great

1332
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 1: way to catch catfish. I've heard that there now and

1333
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: you talk about like all the different people getting mad

1334
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: at each other. I heard now there's catfish guys who

1335
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 1: are gunning for set lines because the set liners catch

1336
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 1: all the catfish. So it's not even walleye guys v.

1337
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 1: Rainbow guys. It's like catfish guys be catfish guys. Everybody's

1338
01:23:54,680 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 1: everybody's douking it out, the write letters and mail. Um

1339
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 1: so so does there's a little piece of that that

1340
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: I find, um funny odd that we're fighting. It's it's

1341
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 1: another way to put it would be that's not I

1342
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't say that the first world problem, but that

1343
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: we're fighting over a plethora of riches. I mean, instead

1344
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 1: of early on going back to the theme of the

1345
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 1: origin of the North American model, the Pittman Robertson Act,

1346
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 1: where there um depleted resources. Now we have a lot

1347
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: of resources and we're fighting over them. And I just

1348
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:51,919
Speaker 1: I just sometimes think we we missed the big picture

1349
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 1: of we should all we have more in common than

1350
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:00,479
Speaker 1: we're willing to let on fighting at the litt things.

1351
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 1: My kids fight the worst one about ten am Christmas morning, Yeah,

1352
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: the richest. Then they got something to fight over who

1353
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 1: got what? And I'm not discounting it was drowned in

1354
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: toys and they turn on each other. Uh, loving it

1355
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: to death? Okay, talk about what what do you mean when?

1356
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? Loving it to death?

1357
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: What would mean to me would be what happens in

1358
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 1: Uh what do you mean right now? Would be like

1359
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 1: what happens during archery elk season in Colorado. Pretty much

1360
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 1: every season in Colorado's loved to death. People want to go,

1361
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: and they want to go and have the experience in

1362
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,599
Speaker 1: the state. It's like hell, come on out. And it

1363
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 1: makes it that it just creates like over it creates

1364
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: what I would feel like an overwhelmingly negative thing. And

1365
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 1: by trying to participate in something that's supposed to be great,

1366
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 1: all of those people participating and it diminishes and cheapens

1367
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:16,679
Speaker 1: it and makes it not special. Um. I think that

1368
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 1: that Colorado Elk are but they'll be in love to

1369
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:30,639
Speaker 1: death by other user groups as well. Yeah, maybe even

1370
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 1: more than too many archery hunters. I feel like a

1371
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 1: lot of archery hunters certainly worse since your experience out there.

1372
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:42,040
Speaker 1: But we've talked when we talked with bel Andre from

1373
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: the Colorado Parks and Wildlife, you know, he's talking about,

1374
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 1: um just hikers and backpackers and mountain bikers that are

1375
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: in the mountains seven sixty five days a year. There

1376
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 1: is no off season, there's no shoulder season there anymore. Um.

1377
01:26:57,439 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 1: I lived there ten years ago and just now is

1378
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,639
Speaker 1: back this year, and just you know, trailheads that would

1379
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 1: have a car or two or maybe none at certain

1380
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: days of the week. Now every single day of the week,

1381
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 1: all the time that there's overflow parking for every single trailhead,

1382
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: and those animals just do not get a break anymore. Um.

1383
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: So that's a form of love and to death. Yeah,

1384
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: I'd say so. And then the love and death of

1385
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: I think just like the like the amazing number of

1386
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 1: nonresident the hunters of the state lets in. I'm staying

1387
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: that from a non resident, So that would be love

1388
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 1: or here let me give you another love and to death,

1389
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: because here's what I want to talk about. Like a river,

1390
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,080
Speaker 1: for instance, when I go down there's a river near here,

1391
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 1: the Madison it Um in the old days when I

1392
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: was a young man, um some people around the river.

1393
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: But now you go down there on a Saturday in

1394
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 1: the summertime and it's like it's like a parade, and

1395
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 1: you're talking even like inflatable swans. I mean, it's like

1396
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 1: a parade. Have you taken your kids down and done that? No?

1397
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: Hell no, I wouldn't take them to do that. There.

1398
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 1: You can rent those inflatable swans. Wouldn't inflatable mattresses. I

1399
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 1: remember one time seeing you know, those metal um watering troughs.

1400
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: I've seen a metal watering trough on the Missouri on

1401
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: the fourth of July weekend. Not to be crude, but

1402
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:24,439
Speaker 1: at a certain point is the amount of urine in

1403
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 1: the water it's produced by all those floats that start

1404
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 1: to hurt the fish. It depends on if there's an

1405
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:35,600
Speaker 1: offset with beer. Can beer offset the impact you're in?

1406
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:38,240
Speaker 1: So we got this situation where you have this river

1407
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 1: and everyone wants to go there and they want to

1408
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 1: flow down the river. And someone might look and say, um,

1409
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: what was special about this? Right that it was like

1410
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: a way to this this this naturally scenic, it's beautiful.

1411
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 1: You can drift down this river and kind of visualize

1412
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: it yourself, getting lost in time. It's this landscape that

1413
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 1: just from a cursory look um carved. Yeah, it could

1414
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 1: be like I don't know, I'm here five years ago,

1415
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Like if I was here five hundred years ago, probably

1416
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,919
Speaker 1: kind of be like this, you know, and it's special

1417
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 1: and people go there. But then one day so many

1418
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,720
Speaker 1: people go there that now it doesn't do what it

1419
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: did Now it's just a circus. So like like, whose

1420
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: responsibility is to police this? Is it? Anyone's who's supposed

1421
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, now some of you can't go

1422
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 1: because we're just gonna let a couple of people go

1423
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: and it will be special to them and everyone else

1424
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: stay home. Well let me ask that back. Who do

1425
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 1: you think i'd have a say and who should police it?

1426
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 1: And what that would look like? I mean, I would

1427
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:04,760
Speaker 1: just look to That's a good question. The constituents. Yeah,

1428
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: what are our constituents? What you're even talking about different

1429
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:13,000
Speaker 1: land like different landownership stuff. Yeah, well let me let

1430
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: me back up. So when I talked about fish, wildlife

1431
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:18,719
Speaker 1: and parks, you know what is our job? Our mission

1432
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:24,719
Speaker 1: is to steward uh fish, wildlife, parks, recreational resources for

1433
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 1: for today and for future generations. And then as we've

1434
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 1: gone around the state and talked to a number of

1435
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: people and went through a whole process internally to figure

1436
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,479
Speaker 1: out what, like what does that really mean? And that

1437
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:46,480
Speaker 1: our charge is to protect the integrity of the Montana

1438
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 1: experience outside. So so we're we're not Colorado right now,

1439
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 1: We're not Utah, were not other states. What is what

1440
01:30:55,520 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: is the Montana experience and how would we protect the

1441
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 1: integrity of that experience? So that's what our charge is.

1442
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:11,840
Speaker 1: So in I would argue it is our job to

1443
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 1: look at that, whether it's the experience of hunting, it's

1444
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 1: the experience of trails on lands we manage um, and

1445
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: it is um the experience on the Madison. So I

1446
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 1: believe we do have a role in it. And there's

1447
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 1: a statute that directs us to address social conflicts on

1448
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: rivers now like a specific thing to like fight out

1449
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:43,920
Speaker 1: social conflicts. And I remember on rivers, I remembering they

1450
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't forget anything. Today you could go

1451
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:48,719
Speaker 1: back to the legislative history on that. I was sitting

1452
01:31:48,800 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 1: in the legislative hearing the day that language got added

1453
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 1: into that statute, and I remember I was like this

1454
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:58,680
Speaker 1: fresh lawyer. I didn't, you know, I was somewhat new

1455
01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 1: to the process and I reader can't have a law background. Yeah,

1456
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: and I was. I was. I thought that day, I thought, WHOA,

1457
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:07,800
Speaker 1: what is that going to mean? Is that's a good

1458
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:13,240
Speaker 1: thing or it's hard? So so we do have that responsibility. Now,

1459
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: how we apply it is super tricky. Um and I

1460
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 1: would argue the best way to apply it is to

1461
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 1: go through some sort of robust public process where we

1462
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 1: do hear from everyone. You hear from you know, we're

1463
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 1: talking about them, Addison. You hear from the people who

1464
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:39,720
Speaker 1: live in Annas, you business owners, the people who live

1465
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 1: there and don't own a business, Virginia City, Nevada City,

1466
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: people who live in Bozeman, non residents. I mean, think

1467
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:50,600
Speaker 1: of all the different people who use them. Addison and

1468
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 1: I don't believe that we can turn back the clock

1469
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:59,640
Speaker 1: on what's happening there. I think that's tough. But we

1470
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: can certainly think about what's happening now and look to

1471
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: the future. It's not easy, but I mean, I look

1472
01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 1: at the Smith River, I look at other rivers that

1473
01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:11,360
Speaker 1: are permitted. Do we want to do that? Greg and

1474
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 1: I were talking about it do we want the same

1475
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:16,639
Speaker 1: experience on all of the rivers, Like should the Boulder

1476
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:21,080
Speaker 1: River or the Yellowstone be the same as the Madison. Um.

1477
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 1: I think we have to listen to the public and

1478
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 1: go through and we have here, but go through a

1479
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 1: really public process and and sort through that collectively without

1480
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: us stepping in and dictating it. My opinion here doesn't matter.

1481
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 1: It's what collectively we do. But at some point, because

1482
01:33:41,240 --> 01:33:44,200
Speaker 1: right now we're just talking about all the user experiences,

1483
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:46,679
Speaker 1: at some point when you have to step in and say, yeah,

1484
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: well we have to be the voice for the habitat

1485
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 1: and and all the things that live in it and

1486
01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:57,160
Speaker 1: on it. Yes, and to date, um, and I mean

1487
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,400
Speaker 1: this is all part of what's going on. I think

1488
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 1: the people you don't want to see fish wild life

1489
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:07,680
Speaker 1: from Parks or the Commission to step into this the

1490
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: issue on the Madison because to date there has not

1491
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: been a biological impact. There hasn't been an impact on

1492
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 1: the fisheries. I think we're seeing that. Um, we're starting

1493
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 1: to see that, and and and the next year or so,

1494
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I'll be really curious. I do think it's our job

1495
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 1: to get that data and understand that better. So I

1496
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:35,160
Speaker 1: want to just clarify this for for folks, No, you're

1497
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:37,360
Speaker 1: doing a bang up job and I'm probably gonna I'll

1498
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: be accused of like someone say like, oh, are you

1499
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 1: telling the obvious? So, uh, we're looking at we're talking

1500
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 1: about two different things. Where you have our river okay,

1501
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 1: and the river has too much boating traffic. You could

1502
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:56,439
Speaker 1: be invited into police the experience. And that's one thing,

1503
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:58,479
Speaker 1: so you talk about you have the ability to monitor

1504
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: like social stuff, meaning like in the absence of it

1505
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 1: being fish habitat or whatever, just like that you can

1506
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 1: monitor like what kind of experience is it crowded or

1507
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 1: not crowded. But then there's another avenue of approach into

1508
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 1: this question where you could be in a situation where

1509
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:17,759
Speaker 1: no one has any problem with the crowding. Everyone loves

1510
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,680
Speaker 1: the crowding. They wish there was more crowding, but it

1511
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 1: turns out the fish don't dig it. And at that

1512
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:28,880
Speaker 1: point you can also you also have legal authority on

1513
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 1: behalf of the fish regardless of what anybody thinks. Not

1514
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,439
Speaker 1: regardless of what anyone thinks. I mean, we still could

1515
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 1: step in, but you still will get public input. So

1516
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:43,879
Speaker 1: there's that's that mix of the biological science and social science.

1517
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 1: I would argue, you know, biological science is critical, it

1518
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:52,360
Speaker 1: should be the underpinning. We also have learned we need

1519
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:55,280
Speaker 1: to pay attention to social science too. There are very

1520
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 1: few things I think we deal with it doesn't have

1521
01:35:57,960 --> 01:36:02,920
Speaker 1: some social impact or so. Um, but it's good. I'm

1522
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:06,880
Speaker 1: glad we're so linked to the natural world. So that's

1523
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,639
Speaker 1: a good thing. You mentioned the Smith River. So there's

1524
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 1: a river. There's a very isolated, very wild river called

1525
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:19,679
Speaker 1: the Smith River, and it's quintessential Montana. People do multi

1526
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: day floats on it, and you gotta like draw a

1527
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 1: permit to go float the river. It's not like you

1528
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: don't you don't go down there for an hour. It's

1529
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: like you get a permit. You do at Yeah, you do,

1530
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 1: you do a river trip. Um, could you imagine is

1531
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 1: there a way to have a version of a permit

1532
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:41,200
Speaker 1: system that you need to get a permit to go

1533
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:43,240
Speaker 1: float in a two for an hour? I mean I'm

1534
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 1: all for it, but I mean, like, is that is

1535
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: there a way to do that? I don't know, first come,

1536
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 1: first served, like like you know, I mean, like what

1537
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: could it look like? Um, I guess I don't know yet.

1538
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:00,280
Speaker 1: I mean, this is somewhat new territory for us, and

1539
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:04,280
Speaker 1: we've not had a sound bureaucratic here. But it's the truth.

1540
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 1: We haven't had the capacity and the money to put

1541
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:12,519
Speaker 1: the work into getting um studying this better and setting

1542
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: up a good system to address Yet well it's come up,

1543
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 1: but it's not popular and we haven't had the support

1544
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:24,759
Speaker 1: to really plan it out. But if you think about

1545
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 1: the Smith River, the precursor to and I'm not saying

1546
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 1: that we want to permit all rivers, I'm not at

1547
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:37,320
Speaker 1: all going there for right, right, and we wouldn't want that.

1548
01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:39,639
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, because then people aren't getting outside

1549
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 1: and experiencing it and then loving something else too because

1550
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,080
Speaker 1: they got to grow up going on the river whatever.

1551
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:51,839
Speaker 1: But the Smith River. UM first, there was a study

1552
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 1: of the resources. There was a study of use and

1553
01:37:55,880 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 1: resources on the Smith River that led to permit getting there.

1554
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,719
Speaker 1: And so what I'm saying, I think is we're getting

1555
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,800
Speaker 1: pushed river by river to address conflict, whether it's on

1556
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:12,440
Speaker 1: the West Fork of the bitter Root or on the Madison.

1557
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,800
Speaker 1: You know, people are coming to the agency to say

1558
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:20,320
Speaker 1: we want you to address this. UM I am saying it.

1559
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 1: I would love down the road to be able to

1560
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:27,800
Speaker 1: uh look at it across the state holistically, so that

1561
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: we're realize that if we do something on the Madison,

1562
01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 1: how might that impact the Yellowstone? Or when we had

1563
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 1: regulations on the Beaverhead and Big Hole, how did that

1564
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: impact the Madison? And making sure we have all sorts

1565
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: of different kinds of opportunity, So we're not saying every

1566
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 1: every opportunity, every river has to be the same. I don't.

1567
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that well. And I think on the

1568
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Madison is a really unique spot sort of because that

1569
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:03,839
Speaker 1: lower river is is so the experience during the summer

1570
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:07,960
Speaker 1: months is so much geared towards that that sort of

1571
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: non consumptive crowd. Not that not that they don't consume,

1572
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:15,679
Speaker 1: because they do, but they we we don't permit people

1573
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:20,719
Speaker 1: like the bird watchers and the carrying, the partiers, they're

1574
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:24,840
Speaker 1: they're they're consumptive in a different way, but they but

1575
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 1: we so they use up years of my life in swants,

1576
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 1: the ones in the inflatable swants. But but but on

1577
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,880
Speaker 1: a given uh summer weekend, summer Saturday, there may be

1578
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:42,840
Speaker 1: thousands of people on that that lower stretch river and

1579
01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 1: there and there's a there's a there's a businesses and

1580
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:52,679
Speaker 1: in Bozeman that that serve that crowd, that that that

1581
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:57,799
Speaker 1: value that use. Isn't the primary debate that that comes

1582
01:39:57,840 --> 01:40:00,160
Speaker 1: to us. The primary debate that comes to us is

1583
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 1: on the Upper River, and it's on the commercial outfitting

1584
01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:08,559
Speaker 1: versus the wait angler versus the non commercial outfitted user

1585
01:40:09,080 --> 01:40:13,559
Speaker 1: or the non guided user and the and so that's

1586
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 1: where right now that the debate is the hottest. Well,

1587
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 1: you're saying that that on the river. On this river

1588
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:25,320
Speaker 1: there's more of a debate around people arguing between who's

1589
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:28,840
Speaker 1: got a guide and who's waiting from the beach and

1590
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,439
Speaker 1: who's in a boat but not with a guide, Like

1591
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,759
Speaker 1: they're duking it out more than who's here to party

1592
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:36,720
Speaker 1: and who's here to fish. Well, think of if you

1593
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:39,000
Speaker 1: think about it for us, for like kind of how

1594
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:44,080
Speaker 1: it gets to us, Like there there isn't the constituent

1595
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:47,600
Speaker 1: that that buys a six pack of PBR and and

1596
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 1: a black inner tube and hops in and floats down

1597
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,840
Speaker 1: the river and it's cut offs. He doesn't show up

1598
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:56,120
Speaker 1: at the public meeting. Yeah, they don't have like a

1599
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 1: he's not like in the Montana Tubers associated right, that's truthfully,

1600
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:05,439
Speaker 1: this comes to the Commission in the form of in

1601
01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: a formal petition, so that already, you know, weeds people out.

1602
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:12,720
Speaker 1: He's going to bring a petition for that. But but

1603
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: if you like to drink beer and float, and I'm

1604
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:18,439
Speaker 1: starting to group right now, you're you haven't shown up yet,

1605
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:21,680
Speaker 1: but if you're but if you want that sort of

1606
01:41:21,760 --> 01:41:26,280
Speaker 1: solitude experienced wade fishing, like up a three dollar bridge,

1607
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 1: you know that the sama fly hatches on. You've hiked

1608
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:33,680
Speaker 1: down the river two miles, You've got this couple of

1609
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 1: holes you're gonna fish. You want that solitude, You've earned it,

1610
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:40,800
Speaker 1: You've you've put in the time, you've you've done all

1611
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:43,400
Speaker 1: everything right, and then you have a whole bunch of

1612
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:48,919
Speaker 1: people floating by your you might your dissatisfaction with your experience.

1613
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 1: That that is where that opinion is what's coming to

1614
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 1: us now. Also, the you know, and it's Chamber of Commerce,

1615
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:02,759
Speaker 1: the you know, the Outfitters and Guides Association. We're hearing

1616
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 1: from those groups saying, you know, hey, you can't if

1617
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna you gotta be really thoughtful if you're gonna

1618
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:13,200
Speaker 1: limit how many outfitters we like selling stuff. Yeah, you

1619
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 1: know what, you know what? You know what group you're

1620
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 1: gonna regret? You ever heard of when we we get uh,

1621
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna start the Rocky Mountain Squirrel Foundation, and you're

1622
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:25,000
Speaker 1: out top about having to be in your bonnet. Man,

1623
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 1: they don't you guys more squirrels. You guys don't make

1624
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 1: They don't manage squirrels. Well, the isn't. I mean, I

1625
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:40,679
Speaker 1: believe I'm stepping out, but aren't those uh foxtail squirrels

1626
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: are invasive foxtail fox squirrels fox squirrels. No, I don't

1627
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:46,760
Speaker 1: think so. I think they came up. You think they

1628
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 1: came they came up, They rolled the backs of the wall.

1629
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:52,000
Speaker 1: I read they came up, they rolled on wall. Here's

1630
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:54,320
Speaker 1: the thing, though, Man, to be honest with you, I

1631
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:59,000
Speaker 1: don't want there to be It's counterintuitive. I don't want

1632
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 1: there to be a formal season in a formal bag

1633
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 1: limit because I feel that if there was, people would

1634
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:07,640
Speaker 1: be tuned into it, like the minute you make it

1635
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:09,920
Speaker 1: a thing. Like remember how like people used to just

1636
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:11,880
Speaker 1: go and like you might go fishing and maybe shoot

1637
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 1: something too right and just that's just what you did,

1638
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,599
Speaker 1: and that could happen then all a sudden something came

1639
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 1: up with the term like, oh, let's do a cast

1640
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,120
Speaker 1: and blast, and all of a sudden, you like put

1641
01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 1: a name to something and you turn it into something.

1642
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:26,000
Speaker 1: So I think, like, if people open up the REGs

1643
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:28,559
Speaker 1: and they see rules about squirrels, are gonna get all interested.

1644
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:31,280
Speaker 1: I'd rather I like it one of the I like

1645
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 1: it that there's just no mention of it, and then

1646
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:37,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't become like a thing. But what I'd like

1647
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 1: to see is more of them dropped off here and there,

1648
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 1: like a lot more money into do it bucket biology

1649
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:48,120
Speaker 1: on squirrels. Man hate no bucket biology. That's just a

1650
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 1: stance we gotta make. Yeah, uh, okay, we'll talk about

1651
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:56,200
Speaker 1: loving it to death and what like. And it's interesting

1652
01:43:56,240 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 1: to know that you're actually like there's a mandate, an

1653
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 1: agency could have a man date to regulate people's social fighting.

1654
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:08,800
Speaker 1: What do you feel? So this is a whole new topic.

1655
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about um. Earlier we talked

1656
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 1: about like who owns wildlife? Right, we talked about it

1657
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:20,080
Speaker 1: really matter of factly, like everybody knows. Everybody knows wildlife

1658
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:24,360
Speaker 1: owned by the people. What are what do you imagine

1659
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,800
Speaker 1: being threats to that. And I know that for you

1660
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 1: to use the word threat, it's gonna put you in

1661
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 1: trouble because you're sort of there's a value judgment with

1662
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:34,240
Speaker 1: calling it a threat, like what are the chant Like,

1663
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:38,479
Speaker 1: what do you see as emerging challenges to this thing

1664
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 1: that we're just accepting at face value as being Like

1665
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,800
Speaker 1: everyone agrees that wildlife is a public the wildlife is

1666
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 1: publicly owned. Um, but as you point out, not everyone

1667
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:52,160
Speaker 1: agrees with that or they understand that it's always been

1668
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:57,840
Speaker 1: that way, but they would like to see that change. Um,

1669
01:44:57,960 --> 01:44:59,880
Speaker 1: there's a group I'm trying to remember what's the what's

1670
01:44:59,880 --> 01:45:04,240
Speaker 1: the the Utah group Sportsman. They come up with them

1671
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:08,400
Speaker 1: as a group of sports for Wildlife. It's one of

1672
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:10,560
Speaker 1: those this is me talking, not like I want to

1673
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,200
Speaker 1: save you guys, any kind of I'm talking right now,

1674
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:15,760
Speaker 1: Steve that that I haven't consulted that our guests are

1675
01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:20,559
Speaker 1: sitting silently. Um, but yeah, I don't want to say

1676
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:24,599
Speaker 1: that group there are sometimes you'll see, uh yeah, never

1677
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:29,000
Speaker 1: mind sports states handle it differently. Yeah, so sports there's

1678
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 1: and I could't even be wrong, but I feel like

1679
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:35,960
Speaker 1: Sportsman for Wildlife. I believe, um that that organization would

1680
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 1: like to see. UM, I would like to see individual

1681
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:47,719
Speaker 1: landowners enjoy sort of a greater ownership. Speaking very generally,

1682
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:50,679
Speaker 1: they would like to see the landowners enjoy a greater

1683
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:56,759
Speaker 1: ownership of the animals that are on their property. Meaning UM,

1684
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 1: they're not comfortable entirely with the idea that that's public

1685
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:02,400
Speaker 1: and it'd be like if you got if you own

1686
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:04,320
Speaker 1: the land, you should be able to have more say

1687
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:06,200
Speaker 1: and what goes on on it. UM. I'll point out

1688
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:08,519
Speaker 1: we told a story before, but this whole thing comes

1689
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:12,719
Speaker 1: from UM. A long time ago there was a there's

1690
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:15,080
Speaker 1: a Supreme you know, there's a Supreme Court decision of

1691
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:17,160
Speaker 1: other things where there was a guy and he was

1692
01:46:17,479 --> 01:46:20,639
Speaker 1: he owned some land on the beach and people would

1693
01:46:20,680 --> 01:46:24,439
Speaker 1: pick oysters, would collect oysters off the beach. And the

1694
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:27,240
Speaker 1: guy was like, hey, man, um, you can't pick those

1695
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:30,920
Speaker 1: oysters up. Those are I own the oysters because I

1696
01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:34,559
Speaker 1: own the land on the oysters and UM, and he

1697
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:37,600
Speaker 1: traced back his ownership at these oysters or something like

1698
01:46:37,680 --> 01:46:41,400
Speaker 1: land grant from the King of England. So he's like thereby,

1699
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:46,519
Speaker 1: my wild my land, my wildlife. And eventually goes to

1700
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:50,880
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court and it's determined that Um, with the

1701
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 1: declaration of independence, those things that belonged to the sovereign,

1702
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:58,720
Speaker 1: like those things that belonged to the king, became the

1703
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:02,120
Speaker 1: property of the people. I'm doing this like very shorthand version.

1704
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 1: Therefore you don't know on the oysters. Sorry, like king

1705
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 1: game to you, but not anymore. We're done with that

1706
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:13,320
Speaker 1: stuff now. Now we're America and we have this new idea,

1707
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:16,160
Speaker 1: which is public wildlife. It's not like in Europe where

1708
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:21,160
Speaker 1: you you know the king's deer. Um. How do you

1709
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:23,599
Speaker 1: I know you earlier saying you have you're not able

1710
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 1: to advocate or you need to be more like a

1711
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 1: passive bystander, as an agency, an initiative. Okay, what about

1712
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:33,800
Speaker 1: something like this? Can you, like, are you able to

1713
01:47:33,880 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: flex some muscle and stand up for public wildlife or

1714
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 1: you just have to be like whatever way the wind blows. Um.

1715
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:47,559
Speaker 1: If that's the question, well, I mean, I think it's

1716
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:52,480
Speaker 1: the law. I think it's the public trust. And wildlife

1717
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:56,800
Speaker 1: is embedded in our um, in the fabric of our country.

1718
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:00,719
Speaker 1: It's embedded in you know, think of people love block lands,

1719
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:06,240
Speaker 1: public wildlife. It's part of why we have some of

1720
01:48:06,240 --> 01:48:14,120
Speaker 1: the species diversity and abundance that we have. UM So

1721
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't. It's not advocating for a certain point of view,

1722
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:21,120
Speaker 1: because it is. It's a fact of life. It is

1723
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 1: what it is right now. Certainly in Montana. Now Utah

1724
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:32,160
Speaker 1: wildlife is monetized more than in Montana, where you know,

1725
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:36,880
Speaker 1: a landowner can get landowner tags or whatever, and there's

1726
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:40,880
Speaker 1: certainly people who are interested in that happening in more

1727
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 1: places in the country. UM. I have learned in being director.

1728
01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:49,880
Speaker 1: I mean there are lots of things that I've had

1729
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:52,559
Speaker 1: to learn along the way. And I think there's so

1730
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:57,720
Speaker 1: many sort of unspoken rules, and I've tried to learn them,

1731
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:01,559
Speaker 1: and I think we should make them spoken about what

1732
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:06,200
Speaker 1: we think is different in Montana than say in Utah

1733
01:49:06,520 --> 01:49:09,800
Speaker 1: or Colorado and some of our neighboring states. And I

1734
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:12,599
Speaker 1: say that to learn that because if our job at

1735
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Montana Fish Wildlife from Parks is to protect the integrity

1736
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:20,679
Speaker 1: of the Montana outdoor experience, to protect that, we need

1737
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 1: to know what might be different here than elsewhere. And

1738
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:29,040
Speaker 1: I think we as people as citizens, whether citizen of

1739
01:49:29,120 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: Montana or citizens somewhere else, as hunters, anglers, certainly as managers,

1740
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:39,160
Speaker 1: I think we need to understand how we got to

1741
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:42,880
Speaker 1: where we are, That it wasn't by happenstance. The fact

1742
01:49:42,880 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 1: that we UM have this equitable opportunity in Montana, the

1743
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 1: fact that wildlife is truly public, that we haven't monetized it,

1744
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 1: the fact that we have the experiences to rivers and

1745
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:03,800
Speaker 1: UM across the state that we do. It's it's on purpose,

1746
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: it was all, you know, It's part of our that

1747
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 1: North American UM model. It's part of our system. And

1748
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: if we don't understand that, and we don't understand what

1749
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 1: makes it different and special compared to somewhere else, how

1750
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:24,200
Speaker 1: do we make sure that continues. So I feel like

1751
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:29,360
Speaker 1: it's my job to be not necessarily advocating, although I

1752
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:32,799
Speaker 1: think I'm comfortable here because there's not an initiative or something.

1753
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: This is what developed as a state, and I think

1754
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 1: that makes a state special UM to pay. It's my

1755
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 1: job to pay attention to what that is and be

1756
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:47,960
Speaker 1: UM explicit. If we're going to deviate from that and

1757
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: change it, we need to understand what that difference would mean.

1758
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:56,080
Speaker 1: So if we were to privatize wildlife and I and

1759
01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:59,760
Speaker 1: and if we were to allow give change, what we

1760
01:50:59,840 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 1: have of now where landowners are treated like anybody else.

1761
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:08,400
Speaker 1: It's an opportunity state, UM, where landowners don't have any

1762
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:13,640
Speaker 1: rights to wildlife much different than the general public or

1763
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:18,200
Speaker 1: a license holder. UM. If we were to change that,

1764
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:23,759
Speaker 1: what would that mean? And we certainly could as a state,

1765
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:26,920
Speaker 1: But I think we need to understand what we have

1766
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:31,439
Speaker 1: in place now, what makes it special before just saying Okay,

1767
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 1: it's all right to change that, Because I think when you,

1768
01:51:34,640 --> 01:51:37,519
Speaker 1: as you've said, it's hard to put a genie back

1769
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:40,479
Speaker 1: in the bottle. You know, when you change something or

1770
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:44,160
Speaker 1: you allow you give somebody a right, it's a whole

1771
01:51:44,200 --> 01:51:47,320
Speaker 1: lot harder to take that right away than to just

1772
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:49,400
Speaker 1: not give it to them to begin with, or to

1773
01:51:49,479 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 1: do it incrementally. So I think in this instance, what

1774
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 1: makes the experience in Montana pretty special we better be

1775
01:51:58,200 --> 01:52:02,880
Speaker 1: careful at it's saying oh, it's fine to change that

1776
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:07,080
Speaker 1: without really understanding what we're doing it does, without inviting

1777
01:52:07,080 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 1: people to understand the foundation. Yeah, someone's like, why don't

1778
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 1: we have more landowner tags? You could say we could have,

1779
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:18,240
Speaker 1: could we could, But let's look at how we came

1780
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:22,360
Speaker 1: to sort of the underlying like foundational principles that led

1781
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:25,920
Speaker 1: us to be that we like democratic allocation right. And

1782
01:52:26,640 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 1: I also think it's really fair to realize, like this

1783
01:52:30,479 --> 01:52:33,679
Speaker 1: is inside baseball, this is something we all think about.

1784
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:36,519
Speaker 1: You clearly think about it, and it's great to talk about.

1785
01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 1: But not everybody knows this. We shouldn't assume that people

1786
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,720
Speaker 1: realize how important it is that we do have this

1787
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:48,880
Speaker 1: public trust in wild life, that all everybody has a

1788
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:53,559
Speaker 1: piece of this. It's it's complicated enough where I have

1789
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:58,880
Speaker 1: purchased and hunted off of landowner tags. When we talk

1790
01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:00,720
Speaker 1: about land ard tag, what that's why to tell people

1791
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:02,960
Speaker 1: at land artaga is land ard tag would be that

1792
01:53:03,320 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 1: UM in whatever particular game management unit or wherever you have,

1793
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 1: they might be the people who own x number of

1794
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 1: acres um deserve to get some like payback for them

1795
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:17,680
Speaker 1: owning land that has animals on it. So if you

1796
01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:21,679
Speaker 1: own four acres, they're gonna give you two deer tags.

1797
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 1: Everybody else needs to try to apply for a tag

1798
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:26,200
Speaker 1: and win in a drawing. And then in some cases

1799
01:53:26,320 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 1: you can take your two deer tags and sell them.

1800
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:31,800
Speaker 1: And that wasn't in Montana. No, no, no not. You

1801
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 1: can sell them to the highest bidder. Um they're just

1802
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 1: years to have and then you get them that way,

1803
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:40,040
Speaker 1: just by the simple fact of owning land, you get tags,

1804
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:42,800
Speaker 1: and then other people get them the good old fashioned ways.

1805
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:46,759
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I've bought and have been given

1806
01:53:47,439 --> 01:53:52,520
Speaker 1: landowner tags and other states, and even with that, uh,

1807
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:58,439
Speaker 1: even having done that, I still them a little bit like, um,

1808
01:53:58,479 --> 01:54:01,479
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I feel about them. I remember

1809
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 1: we had a podcast guest time one time that has

1810
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 1: a place on the coast, has a place on the

1811
01:54:06,840 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 1: California coast, and he doesn't He didn't say this when

1812
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:13,760
Speaker 1: we interviewed him, but he had said it elsewhere. He

1813
01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 1: lives in a house on the beach, and he says,

1814
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:17,400
Speaker 1: I don't even think you should be able to have

1815
01:54:17,439 --> 01:54:19,720
Speaker 1: a house on the beach. But I'm gonna stay in

1816
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:22,679
Speaker 1: mine until it's illegal. Then I will happily move out

1817
01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:24,920
Speaker 1: once I know that someone else isn't gonna move into it.

1818
01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:29,240
Speaker 1: So like I'm just pointed out, because like I was magnanimous,

1819
01:54:29,320 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 1: not everyone would sit. So it's like I get him,

1820
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 1: and I still get him, and I still a little

1821
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:37,400
Speaker 1: bit like, I don't know, man, is this like the

1822
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:48,040
Speaker 1: right thing, the right way to uh that you are? Um,

1823
01:54:48,120 --> 01:54:53,560
Speaker 1: that you're hunting the King's deer. Right, That's what he

1824
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:56,840
Speaker 1: taught me about it, that it's some that it's tags,

1825
01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 1: And I guess I've I've had in my life through

1826
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 1: various ways for landowner tags um or the equivalent of

1827
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 1: land ard tags four times. And then it would be that, uh,

1828
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 1: I got those opportunities because of my connection to or

1829
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:24,400
Speaker 1: my personal being like someone of means, and there was

1830
01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 1: four opportunities that would have been distributed more equitably and

1831
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:33,480
Speaker 1: more democratically to others. So I went into the woods

1832
01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:37,040
Speaker 1: because of being a man of means or having relations

1833
01:55:37,080 --> 01:55:43,200
Speaker 1: that way, and other people stayed home because they're not right.

1834
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:46,400
Speaker 1: That eats at me. But then you can also be like, oh,

1835
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:48,560
Speaker 1: life a fair whatever, like there's all kinds of ways

1836
01:55:48,560 --> 01:55:53,680
Speaker 1: to write it all. Yeah, well yeah, you know, like

1837
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm a good friend, right so uh yeah, man, it

1838
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 1: bounces around and uh to if I put in for

1839
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:07,320
Speaker 1: a draw and like draw the tag, dude, I'm elated. Yeah,

1840
01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:13,520
Speaker 1: guilt free hunting guilt. Yeah. So when I'm pointing, I'm

1841
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:14,720
Speaker 1: not on even know what I'm getting at. I'm just

1842
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:17,280
Speaker 1: getting at the idea that it's like that there's these

1843
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: sort of ideas out there that that um I haven't

1844
01:56:21,200 --> 01:56:23,200
Speaker 1: even totally unpacked. How I feel you get us on

1845
01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:29,120
Speaker 1: the subject of governor's tags talking about its ambivalence, all right,

1846
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:33,640
Speaker 1: I see both sides. Well, you know, the interesting thing

1847
01:56:33,680 --> 01:56:36,280
Speaker 1: in Montana and not to get it down on governor

1848
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:39,120
Speaker 1: down the road on Governor's takes, but where we're at

1849
01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:45,160
Speaker 1: is and you know, wildlife management is a is a

1850
01:56:45,240 --> 01:56:49,960
Speaker 1: complex situation that you know, complex field for us obviously,

1851
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of but there's a lot of

1852
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 1: values at the table, and there's a lot of interest

1853
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:57,280
Speaker 1: at the table, including landowners. We don't get to we

1854
01:56:57,400 --> 01:57:02,120
Speaker 1: get to just manage wildlife without sort of considering all

1855
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:05,920
Speaker 1: those sorts of relationships and those partnerships. And we've talked

1856
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 1: about this a lot in in that department recently. Is

1857
01:57:10,760 --> 01:57:15,040
Speaker 1: it's critical our landowner relationships are critical. I mean, there's

1858
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:19,080
Speaker 1: a ton of habitat in Montana that is critical that's

1859
01:57:19,080 --> 01:57:21,400
Speaker 1: on private land. Oh, if you look at I mean

1860
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:25,640
Speaker 1: private land, private land conservation, if you just look at

1861
01:57:25,680 --> 01:57:30,640
Speaker 1: it and whatever is in square units of space, private

1862
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 1: land conservation is more important in public wayAnd conservation because

1863
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:35,920
Speaker 1: more of the country's private land, Like if they all

1864
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:39,240
Speaker 1: decided just to piss it all away. Everyone's done. We're done,

1865
01:57:39,680 --> 01:57:43,120
Speaker 1: Like we can't have wildlife if private landowners decided that

1866
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:44,720
Speaker 1: they didn't care about wild life anymore and they're just

1867
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:48,640
Speaker 1: going to destroy it all of course, of course, uh,

1868
01:57:48,720 --> 01:57:52,440
Speaker 1: And no one is suggesting that you should be forced

1869
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:55,960
Speaker 1: to allow access on your property. Like if you own

1870
01:57:56,040 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 1: land and there's animals on it, you have right and

1871
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:01,680
Speaker 1: no one can go, No one can go. No one's

1872
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:04,080
Speaker 1: questioning that. But we're talking about is like do you,

1873
01:58:05,040 --> 01:58:10,800
Speaker 1: by by fact of you owning the land, do you

1874
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:15,320
Speaker 1: then get the animals too, which is us, which would

1875
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:19,680
Speaker 1: be giving something that didn't previously belong to you to you. Right,

1876
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,880
Speaker 1: it's not like you're not writing momentum, it's a new idea,

1877
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:26,760
Speaker 1: Like that's the thing, you know. Well, I feel like

1878
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 1: we often get accused of like being down on on

1879
01:58:30,040 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 1: private land all the time. Man, I have, like I

1880
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 1: have a lot of friends that you know, it's bad

1881
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:36,879
Speaker 1: when people say that, A lot of friends that manage

1882
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:41,240
Speaker 1: land specifically for wildlife and phenomenal stewards and it's absolutely

1883
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:47,200
Speaker 1: important and we're really thankful to them. But right, but like,

1884
01:58:47,400 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 1: do you get to own the stuff that's walking across it.

1885
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,760
Speaker 1: So and I think that sounds too much like a

1886
01:58:55,240 --> 01:59:02,480
Speaker 1: UM one or the other. And and uh, while landowners

1887
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:06,840
Speaker 1: definitely have the right to determine access on their land

1888
01:59:07,440 --> 01:59:09,880
Speaker 1: UM and they can determine if there's hunting at all.

1889
01:59:10,120 --> 01:59:15,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. The piece that is often missing.

1890
01:59:16,040 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 1: And I'm going to my next director's message or the

1891
01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 1: one after that talk about this more. I mean, I

1892
01:59:22,080 --> 01:59:25,920
Speaker 1: do think as an agency we can do a better

1893
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:32,680
Speaker 1: job of appreciating the conservation and access the opportunities that

1894
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:36,680
Speaker 1: happen on private land. Like you said, we could not

1895
01:59:37,920 --> 01:59:43,720
Speaker 1: manage wildlife and provide these opportunities without partnering with landowners.

1896
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:48,080
Speaker 1: There are critical peace and we're really thankful for that.

1897
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:50,760
Speaker 1: And so I think you're right. Sometimes when we talk

1898
01:59:50,800 --> 01:59:55,000
Speaker 1: about the public trust and wildlife, it gets too wrapped

1899
01:59:55,080 --> 02:00:00,040
Speaker 1: up in access and and landowners and letting people on

1900
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 1: or not. And I think we need to do a

1901
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:10,160
Speaker 1: better job of just saying private land is critical. They

1902
02:00:10,160 --> 02:00:13,480
Speaker 1: play a really important role not only in the habitat

1903
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:18,080
Speaker 1: for wildlife and specific wildlife species, they also I think

1904
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:22,800
Speaker 1: that we've talked about this, they're facing these um global

1905
02:00:23,120 --> 02:00:30,240
Speaker 1: economic forces where I really worry about losing long term

1906
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:34,320
Speaker 1: landowners on the landscape and and losing their peace of

1907
02:00:34,360 --> 02:00:40,000
Speaker 1: these rural communities that are also really important for habitat

1908
02:00:40,080 --> 02:00:43,760
Speaker 1: and wildlife species and are important to this Montana way

1909
02:00:43,800 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 1: of life. There there intertwined with what we do it

1910
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:50,680
Speaker 1: should be. We had the writer Tom mcgwain on the

1911
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:53,960
Speaker 1: show and he mentioned how when a ranch, when a

1912
02:00:54,080 --> 02:01:01,800
Speaker 1: ranch gets sold, biodiversity goes down. I worry. I'm totally

1913
02:01:01,800 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 1: worried about that. I think we should be doing all

1914
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:07,560
Speaker 1: that we can to support these families that have been

1915
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:09,600
Speaker 1: on the land for a long time. And we're seeing

1916
02:01:10,360 --> 02:01:14,720
Speaker 1: right a trend at least in the Midwest of family

1917
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:19,000
Speaker 1: farms going under, and that's gonna spell trouble I believe

1918
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:23,520
Speaker 1: for wildlife, yeah, I feel, and water and real community,

1919
02:01:23,560 --> 02:01:25,640
Speaker 1: I mean, all sorts of things. We had a conversation

1920
02:01:25,680 --> 02:01:28,640
Speaker 1: the other day about when a landowner and rolls and

1921
02:01:28,760 --> 02:01:31,320
Speaker 1: the Black Management Program, which is a public access program

1922
02:01:31,720 --> 02:01:35,840
Speaker 1: where landowners get, you know, a small compensation for the

1923
02:01:36,040 --> 02:01:39,080
Speaker 1: impacts for for letting people you know, A small yeah,

1924
02:01:39,680 --> 02:01:41,600
Speaker 1: a small I don't even know if you'd call a

1925
02:01:41,640 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 1: payment a small compensation for allowing public hunting access on

1926
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,800
Speaker 1: their property. I was saying that, Um, I feel that

1927
02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:51,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable, but one should

1928
02:01:51,080 --> 02:01:53,120
Speaker 1: really go up and give them a big hug. Yeah,

1929
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:57,000
Speaker 1: because it's like people be like, oh, they're getting paid.

1930
02:01:57,000 --> 02:02:01,400
Speaker 1: It's like, listen, this is not they are not getting paid,

1931
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:08,480
Speaker 1: getting paid nominally for the impacts the public hunters like

1932
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:12,720
Speaker 1: you should go up and clean their boots when you

1933
02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:15,120
Speaker 1: see them, and to have any sort of attitude that

1934
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:18,320
Speaker 1: you have that they're like that you're doing them a

1935
02:02:18,320 --> 02:02:22,760
Speaker 1: favor or whatever by using the access program. And how

1936
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:27,080
Speaker 1: many of the wrong we're looking at you guys don't

1937
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:29,880
Speaker 1: do this, but a lot of hunters get the landowners

1938
02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:32,520
Speaker 1: help them go retrieve their game. I mean, they're out there,

1939
02:02:32,520 --> 02:02:37,600
Speaker 1: but the baco or they're really they're pretty darn helpful

1940
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:40,120
Speaker 1: and encouraging to give them a hug and clean their

1941
02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:45,520
Speaker 1: boots and send them presents if they are willing to

1942
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:50,920
Speaker 1: allow public access through through a state program like that. Uh,

1943
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 1: all right, what do we What have I not asked you?

1944
02:02:52,600 --> 02:02:57,040
Speaker 1: Both of you trying to talk about No, I don't

1945
02:02:57,080 --> 02:03:00,680
Speaker 1: like to talk about myself. So let's seat hops. Have

1946
02:03:00,840 --> 02:03:05,000
Speaker 1: we not covered you skipped grizzly bears, but that's okay. Yeah,

1947
02:03:05,080 --> 02:03:08,560
Speaker 1: we caught wolves a couple of times we rolled into that.

1948
02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 1: Do you want are you dying to talk about grizzlies? Uh? No,

1949
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:14,560
Speaker 1: although I think that would you like to see would

1950
02:03:14,600 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 1: you like to see your agency take would you know

1951
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:20,320
Speaker 1: I just asked for this one. Would you like to

1952
02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:25,120
Speaker 1: see your agency takeover management from the Feds and the

1953
02:03:25,120 --> 02:03:28,560
Speaker 1: grizzlies to go to state management? Of course? Do you

1954
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:30,640
Speaker 1: feel that you guys would just run him in the ground.

1955
02:03:30,640 --> 02:03:36,160
Speaker 1: They'd go extend we're bad or not? You can't. We can't,

1956
02:03:36,200 --> 02:03:39,000
Speaker 1: That's right, we can't. I think people forget that it's

1957
02:03:39,040 --> 02:03:43,040
Speaker 1: our responsibility to make sure they stay recovered because they

1958
02:03:43,080 --> 02:03:45,480
Speaker 1: could go right back. No, we couldn't do that. We

1959
02:03:45,520 --> 02:03:50,120
Speaker 1: should saying that right if the States screwed it up,

1960
02:03:50,320 --> 02:03:52,920
Speaker 1: could go back to the Feds, they would be right

1961
02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:56,160
Speaker 1: shooting themselves in the foot. But whatever your motivations are,

1962
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:58,880
Speaker 1: it wouldn't make any sense to have it go bad. No. Now,

1963
02:03:59,760 --> 02:04:02,600
Speaker 1: I think it's just our responsibility, and I do think

1964
02:04:02,640 --> 02:04:05,840
Speaker 1: Montana's been really good at taking I mean, wolves are

1965
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:09,560
Speaker 1: an example where we've been measured in our approach. Sometimes

1966
02:04:09,640 --> 02:04:12,560
Speaker 1: wish we were less measured. But I it goes back

1967
02:04:12,560 --> 02:04:14,920
Speaker 1: to that switch. I don't think that you know one

1968
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:16,720
Speaker 1: day they're listed in the next or not, and you

1969
02:04:16,760 --> 02:04:21,360
Speaker 1: can go out and hunt them all. It's an incremental process.

1970
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:24,120
Speaker 1: Do you do you like to do crystal ball kind

1971
02:04:24,120 --> 02:04:30,760
Speaker 1: of stuff? Never have you get what you pay for? Well,

1972
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:32,600
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, like you looking into a

1973
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:34,920
Speaker 1: crystal ball. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You get to

1974
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:39,960
Speaker 1: pay for their meaning. I'm not paying anything, yes, Just

1975
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:46,320
Speaker 1: to be um, where are we at like our well, well,

1976
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:49,680
Speaker 1: grizzly bears fall to state. Well, grizzly bears get pulled

1977
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 1: off the Endangered Species Act listing and become no longer

1978
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,840
Speaker 1: threatened and get handed over to state management in five years,

1979
02:04:57,240 --> 02:05:01,120
Speaker 1: ten years. Someday you think so, someday I do think so.

1980
02:05:01,320 --> 02:05:06,520
Speaker 1: I've asked, um, I've asked that to the head of

1981
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:10,600
Speaker 1: um Fishing Wildlife. Well, I've asked the head of I've

1982
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:13,200
Speaker 1: asked that to the head of the Idaho fishing Game.

1983
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:16,040
Speaker 1: I asked it to the head of Wyoming's fishing game,

1984
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:20,200
Speaker 1: and I asked it to the head of Montana's fishing game. Now,

1985
02:05:21,480 --> 02:05:24,720
Speaker 1: and we also asked the felt that we had. I

1986
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:27,920
Speaker 1: don't know if he's the head of the Inner Agency

1987
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: Grizzly Bear Committee. Yeah, I haven't that. You're the only

1988
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:36,640
Speaker 1: one I've asked publicly. You're the only one I've asked publicly.

1989
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:38,720
Speaker 1: The other two I asked. I'm not gonna tell you

1990
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 1: who gave what. But I got one no, one yes.

1991
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:47,200
Speaker 1: In ten years, our grizzly Bear is going to be

1992
02:05:47,640 --> 02:05:51,640
Speaker 1: under state management. Yes, really, yes, So I've got two

1993
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:55,440
Speaker 1: yes is in one no? Yeah, I feel like we're

1994
02:05:56,600 --> 02:06:00,360
Speaker 1: doing the best weekend. So what I would you want

1995
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:05,320
Speaker 1: to talk about? There's I firmly believe that the governor

1996
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:10,160
Speaker 1: created this Grizzly Bear Advisory Council and it pulled We

1997
02:06:10,240 --> 02:06:14,200
Speaker 1: got over a hundred and seventy applications for eighteen spots,

1998
02:06:14,680 --> 02:06:19,360
Speaker 1: and it pulled people from all over the state different perspectives,

1999
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:25,080
Speaker 1: And to me, that's how we solve issues in Montana.

2000
02:06:25,160 --> 02:06:28,040
Speaker 1: That is something that where we do our best work,

2001
02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 1: where it doesn't come to the department. It's not my

2002
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:35,600
Speaker 1: opinion that matters are Greggs for that. It's this council

2003
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,600
Speaker 1: where people get together and hash out some of the

2004
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:42,360
Speaker 1: hard stuff with Grizzly Bear management and it is hard

2005
02:06:43,280 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 1: and give a recommendation. That's an example of why I

2006
02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:50,720
Speaker 1: think we will get there and that we're on it

2007
02:06:50,840 --> 02:06:56,320
Speaker 1: with the science. We are committed and we're getting Montana's

2008
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 1: really engaged to help us figure out the best best

2009
02:07:00,040 --> 02:07:02,840
Speaker 1: path forward. And I really do think that's the way

2010
02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:04,720
Speaker 1: you do it. You don't have just the FEDS coming

2011
02:07:04,760 --> 02:07:08,520
Speaker 1: in and saying you do this or you don't do that.

2012
02:07:08,720 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: It's a it's a collection where we try to figure

2013
02:07:12,560 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 1: out what makes the most sense in Montana. You know,

2014
02:07:16,200 --> 02:07:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ask you to comment on this, but

2015
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:21,160
Speaker 1: it's a funny observation that all the work that goes

2016
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:25,640
Speaker 1: into that went into wolf delisting and it's going into

2017
02:07:25,680 --> 02:07:28,320
Speaker 1: grizzly delisting now, Like does all this work that happens?

2018
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:34,040
Speaker 1: And then people always litigate it in such a way

2019
02:07:34,080 --> 02:07:37,200
Speaker 1: that it winds up in the court in Missoula because

2020
02:07:37,200 --> 02:07:39,080
Speaker 1: they know that the judge of missoul will throw it out.

2021
02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: It's like all this work at all, this where you're like, yeah,

2022
02:07:42,160 --> 02:07:45,520
Speaker 1: but they still got the same person still sits in

2023
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:50,080
Speaker 1: the federal court and so until whatever, they don't know

2024
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:54,640
Speaker 1: what happens if they retire. Oh careful with me. I

2025
02:07:54,760 --> 02:07:57,600
Speaker 1: think that will we can get it through him. And

2026
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:00,800
Speaker 1: I say that because when I taught at the law school,

2027
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:08,280
Speaker 1: I UM the Wolverine litigation. I took my students, UM,

2028
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:11,560
Speaker 1: we read the briefs, we went to the oral argument,

2029
02:08:12,680 --> 02:08:15,840
Speaker 1: he issued his decision. He came to our class and

2030
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:19,000
Speaker 1: explained his decision, and like the good lawyer and the

2031
02:08:19,040 --> 02:08:23,040
Speaker 1: bad loring or whatever, and we got to listen and

2032
02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:27,520
Speaker 1: learn through the whole process. So I think to believe

2033
02:08:27,560 --> 02:08:30,200
Speaker 1: in the judicial system, you think, you think that you

2034
02:08:30,200 --> 02:08:32,480
Speaker 1: think that that individual is actually doing their job and

2035
02:08:32,480 --> 02:08:34,160
Speaker 1: they don't just be like I don't care how I

2036
02:08:34,200 --> 02:08:35,640
Speaker 1: do it, but I'm gonna damn sure make that no

2037
02:08:35,640 --> 02:08:39,120
Speaker 1: one hunts a grizzy bear. I don't think that was

2038
02:08:39,160 --> 02:08:44,800
Speaker 1: in the decision. I think it's easy. I think it

2039
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:50,880
Speaker 1: was lurking around, lurking around. Um. But I don't want

2040
02:08:50,920 --> 02:08:53,280
Speaker 1: you to comment on that. I'm way off into like,

2041
02:08:53,520 --> 02:08:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, just hunches, and I know you probably don't

2042
02:08:57,160 --> 02:09:00,000
Speaker 1: get the deal, and hunches a whole bunch probably shouldn't,

2043
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:03,560
Speaker 1: but also doesn't it Do you feel that it largely

2044
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:07,360
Speaker 1: depends to just kind of like how you know we're

2045
02:09:07,400 --> 02:09:12,040
Speaker 1: gonna have either continuation of the same administration in Washington

2046
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:15,800
Speaker 1: or potentially a new administration of Washington, and these kind

2047
02:09:15,840 --> 02:09:17,720
Speaker 1: of like big things wind up being so much bigger

2048
02:09:17,720 --> 02:09:21,560
Speaker 1: than the state, right like right, it kind of depend

2049
02:09:21,640 --> 02:09:26,160
Speaker 1: on whatever whatever, like high like high level leadership or

2050
02:09:26,200 --> 02:09:27,920
Speaker 1: do you think do you think that a decision like

2051
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:30,440
Speaker 1: this could wind up happening regardless of input from Washington

2052
02:09:30,520 --> 02:09:33,320
Speaker 1: d C. Yeah, I don't think that the change in

2053
02:09:33,400 --> 02:09:37,680
Speaker 1: administrations should have that much of an impact on the

2054
02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:41,240
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Services decision on whether the list or

2055
02:09:41,320 --> 02:09:43,320
Speaker 1: d list is that? Right, They don't just make a call,

2056
02:09:44,760 --> 02:09:47,720
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know, they can't. You don't always

2057
02:09:47,800 --> 02:09:50,800
Speaker 1: laughed about I'm gonna go back to you can see

2058
02:09:50,800 --> 02:09:52,400
Speaker 1: you got anything to add, But I always laughed about

2059
02:09:54,320 --> 02:09:58,760
Speaker 1: in New York, Build A Blasio all the problems, like

2060
02:09:58,840 --> 02:10:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, he becomes the mayor of New like everything

2061
02:10:00,680 --> 02:10:02,440
Speaker 1: that goes out of New York. You can imagine all

2062
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:07,320
Speaker 1: the issues, right you yeah, like every like the subway

2063
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:12,080
Speaker 1: is counter terrorism and you know, you know, Russian oligarchs

2064
02:10:12,120 --> 02:10:15,360
Speaker 1: buying up really like whatever, all these issues and I remember,

2065
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:18,320
Speaker 1: Build A Blasio wins and he gets the thing, and

2066
02:10:18,400 --> 02:10:22,520
Speaker 1: one of his first actions as mayor is that what

2067
02:10:22,680 --> 02:10:28,360
Speaker 1: this city really needs is to not have carriage horse

2068
02:10:28,440 --> 02:10:32,000
Speaker 1: carriage rides in Central Park because it's mean to the horses.

2069
02:10:32,360 --> 02:10:36,920
Speaker 1: And remember being like, there's no way that that's something

2070
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:41,920
Speaker 1: he natively thought of. It was someone had said, here, man,

2071
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:45,600
Speaker 1: here's a bunch of like, uh, campaign money. He didn't

2072
02:10:45,640 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 1: have a bad carriage ride. But he's like, he's like

2073
02:10:48,880 --> 02:10:51,400
Speaker 1: and then he wins. He's like, dah, man, I forgot.

2074
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:53,840
Speaker 1: Now I gotta do something about stupid carriage rides. I

2075
02:10:53,880 --> 02:10:57,120
Speaker 1: promised someone I would do that, like, and so I

2076
02:10:57,320 --> 02:11:00,560
Speaker 1: I view that I can't help but view that when

2077
02:11:00,600 --> 02:11:04,640
Speaker 1: the next that that when the next presidential election happens,

2078
02:11:05,160 --> 02:11:09,200
Speaker 1: that there's not someone planting in someone's ear the idea

2079
02:11:09,240 --> 02:11:11,520
Speaker 1: that I will tell you one thing that cannot happen.

2080
02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:15,920
Speaker 1: We do not want to see those bears delisted, and

2081
02:11:15,960 --> 02:11:18,920
Speaker 1: that someone would like that they would apply some level

2082
02:11:18,960 --> 02:11:22,480
Speaker 1: of force in some weird hidden way. I don't have

2083
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:30,400
Speaker 1: any doubt that someone might plant those seeds. But having worked, yeah,

2084
02:11:30,440 --> 02:11:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm just a dumba. I'm just a dumbas talking. I mean,

2085
02:11:33,800 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 1: I worked in the Solicitor's office for the Department of

2086
02:11:37,200 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 1: the Interior on the Endangered Species Act to subject matter experts.

2087
02:11:41,480 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 1: So we worked our tails off to not have there

2088
02:11:50,160 --> 02:11:56,800
Speaker 1: there was no political influence in our decision packages on

2089
02:11:57,000 --> 02:12:00,240
Speaker 1: listing or delisting. I know people don't believe that. No

2090
02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:07,960
Speaker 1: one's gonna believe that, but you're looking and so and

2091
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:10,760
Speaker 1: I think you see that there hasn't. There may have

2092
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:15,520
Speaker 1: been a big shift and policy and interior from administration

2093
02:12:15,560 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 1: to administration, but if you look at the decision packages

2094
02:12:19,280 --> 02:12:22,400
Speaker 1: coming out on listing or delisting species, I don't think

2095
02:12:22,440 --> 02:12:26,920
Speaker 1: you're seeing a giant shift. Now, strike me down. People

2096
02:12:27,560 --> 02:12:30,000
Speaker 1: hard left, hard right wouldn't agree with me there. But

2097
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:34,480
Speaker 1: I think there's so many um the laws in play,

2098
02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:39,240
Speaker 1: there's so many systems in place that it's hard to

2099
02:12:39,840 --> 02:12:45,640
Speaker 1: politically influence those types of scientific decisions. And I don't

2100
02:12:45,640 --> 02:12:48,600
Speaker 1: think I'm just being Pollyanna. I think that's really the

2101
02:12:48,640 --> 02:12:52,240
Speaker 1: way it's set up. Other things too bad. There's there's

2102
02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:58,000
Speaker 1: policy influence, But on listing and delisting grizzly Bears, I

2103
02:12:58,040 --> 02:13:03,560
Speaker 1: believe they're going to be delisted because as Montana, Wyoming, Idaho,

2104
02:13:04,120 --> 02:13:06,480
Speaker 1: we are starting to work together, and I think a

2105
02:13:06,520 --> 02:13:09,880
Speaker 1: lot of people are coming together to make sure we've

2106
02:13:09,960 --> 02:13:14,840
Speaker 1: demonstrated for if it goes to Judge Christensen that everything's

2107
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:19,480
Speaker 1: in place and we've adhered to what's required to delist them.

2108
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:24,600
Speaker 1: I hope you're right, it's just how long? How long out?

2109
02:13:24,720 --> 02:13:26,880
Speaker 1: I believe it will be done in ten years? Done

2110
02:13:26,920 --> 02:13:29,440
Speaker 1: in ten years? Yeah? Man? Why do you so much

2111
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:30,920
Speaker 1: to go home and hug my kids? Why do you

2112
02:13:30,960 --> 02:13:33,680
Speaker 1: home so much hope that she's right? Why do I

2113
02:13:33,720 --> 02:13:35,640
Speaker 1: hope that? Are you asking? Why do I hope the

2114
02:13:35,680 --> 02:13:39,720
Speaker 1: grizzy bears get delisted? Because I feel like it's an instance,

2115
02:13:40,080 --> 02:13:43,080
Speaker 1: it's twofold one. I feel like it's an instance where

2116
02:13:43,080 --> 02:13:47,680
Speaker 1: people are weaponizing the Endangered Species Act, meaning it's beyond

2117
02:13:47,760 --> 02:13:51,320
Speaker 1: any conversation about what the Endangered Species Act is supposed

2118
02:13:51,320 --> 02:13:54,040
Speaker 1: to be used for and what its function is, and

2119
02:13:54,080 --> 02:13:56,920
Speaker 1: it's just being weaponized as a tool to get what

2120
02:13:56,960 --> 02:13:59,760
Speaker 1: you would like to see happen. And people are like,

2121
02:13:59,840 --> 02:14:03,440
Speaker 1: they don't want there's people who do not want to

2122
02:14:03,480 --> 02:14:06,720
Speaker 1: see a grizzy bear and did not want to see

2123
02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:11,120
Speaker 1: a wolf get killed by a hunter. And they weren't

2124
02:14:11,160 --> 02:14:15,240
Speaker 1: debating anymore about whether or not the Act had worked,

2125
02:14:15,800 --> 02:14:19,400
Speaker 1: whether or not we had achieved recovery objectives, whether or

2126
02:14:19,400 --> 02:14:24,040
Speaker 1: not the whole system did what it was supposed to do.

2127
02:14:24,600 --> 02:14:27,600
Speaker 1: It's stopped being the debate. The debate became like if

2128
02:14:27,640 --> 02:14:31,040
Speaker 1: they d list, there could be hunting, So I will

2129
02:14:31,120 --> 02:14:34,640
Speaker 1: fight the de listing without articulating that that's why I'm

2130
02:14:34,680 --> 02:14:38,440
Speaker 1: doing it, And they became all these proxies, and so

2131
02:14:38,520 --> 02:14:42,360
Speaker 1: if we de list, do you think it'll be less

2132
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:47,600
Speaker 1: easy to weaponize and to continue. That's why it's multifaceted

2133
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:50,440
Speaker 1: because you have to take everything I just said with

2134
02:14:51,040 --> 02:14:56,040
Speaker 1: a grain of salt because I am personally biased for

2135
02:14:56,800 --> 02:15:02,480
Speaker 1: state management of wildlife, and I am uneasy with this

2136
02:15:02,560 --> 02:15:07,680
Speaker 1: is me talking personally personally biased towards state management, and

2137
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:14,120
Speaker 1: I'm generally uneasy with federal management of wildlife unless it's

2138
02:15:14,120 --> 02:15:17,680
Speaker 1: a case where we really need federal management to keep

2139
02:15:17,720 --> 02:15:21,240
Speaker 1: the species from becoming imperiled and going extinct. But in

2140
02:15:21,320 --> 02:15:24,480
Speaker 1: cases of just federal management, because it means that the

2141
02:15:24,560 --> 02:15:27,160
Speaker 1: states wouldn't be able to have a hunting season, I

2142
02:15:27,200 --> 02:15:29,360
Speaker 1: just think that that's a bastardization of what the whole

2143
02:15:29,360 --> 02:15:31,600
Speaker 1: thing is supposed to, how it's supposed to function. So

2144
02:15:31,680 --> 02:15:34,440
Speaker 1: my bias, I'm biased as a hunter. So I'm just

2145
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:37,480
Speaker 1: pointing that out. Less someone say everything you're saying about

2146
02:15:37,480 --> 02:15:39,560
Speaker 1: the Endangered Species Act, you're just saying because you like

2147
02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:41,960
Speaker 1: the hunt. I'm like, yes, I like the hunt, and

2148
02:15:42,240 --> 02:15:45,360
Speaker 1: I don't like the ESA being weaponized. There's plenty of

2149
02:15:45,360 --> 02:15:47,720
Speaker 1: the things that are not recovered that we I would

2150
02:15:47,800 --> 02:15:50,280
Speaker 1: argue we should be spending tons of money and energy

2151
02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:53,600
Speaker 1: on saving. That's not one of them anyway, in which

2152
02:15:53,600 --> 02:15:58,000
Speaker 1: we spelled out what recovery would look like back we've

2153
02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:04,280
Speaker 1: been there for thirteen or fourteen years now, right, So yeah,

2154
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:06,320
Speaker 1: I'm go home and hugged my kids based off of

2155
02:16:06,360 --> 02:16:11,120
Speaker 1: what I just heard. I really children, it will be

2156
02:16:11,160 --> 02:16:17,320
Speaker 1: a beautiful world within a decade. Is that? Is that

2157
02:16:17,400 --> 02:16:20,600
Speaker 1: all fair? What I said, Martha, I don't want to

2158
02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:22,960
Speaker 1: pull you an awkward position. No, No, I mean I'm

2159
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:25,280
Speaker 1: I've I've already been on the record saying that I

2160
02:16:25,320 --> 02:16:27,960
Speaker 1: believe in the Natured Species Act. I mean I do.

2161
02:16:28,760 --> 02:16:32,600
Speaker 1: I also think I personally think that grizzly bears are

2162
02:16:32,720 --> 02:16:36,440
Speaker 1: recovered because they've met the recovery goals. I think that

2163
02:16:36,560 --> 02:16:40,720
Speaker 1: the States we actually with grizzly bears um where we

2164
02:16:40,800 --> 02:16:45,120
Speaker 1: are sharing in management with the Fish and Wildlife Service

2165
02:16:45,200 --> 02:16:48,600
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Services. Now, I mean, no, one entity is

2166
02:16:48,680 --> 02:16:51,440
Speaker 1: doing it alone, so we're already kind of there. We

2167
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:54,080
Speaker 1: do not have a hunting season, um and I think

2168
02:16:54,080 --> 02:16:56,640
Speaker 1: a hunting seasons are red herring. I don't think that's

2169
02:16:56,680 --> 02:17:00,960
Speaker 1: the issue. The issue is recovery of long recovery of bears.

2170
02:17:01,400 --> 02:17:03,400
Speaker 1: It is the is the issue. It is the issue.

2171
02:17:03,680 --> 02:17:10,480
Speaker 1: Did anyone sue against delisting bald eagles? Probably? I don't know,

2172
02:17:10,600 --> 02:17:15,160
Speaker 1: but probably. I mean I said that in that most

2173
02:17:15,520 --> 02:17:19,240
Speaker 1: listing and dealisting decisions get challenged by people who like

2174
02:17:19,320 --> 02:17:23,200
Speaker 1: them and don't like them, of both. Any decision by

2175
02:17:23,240 --> 02:17:26,040
Speaker 1: the US or shamildly service to do list or deal

2176
02:17:26,040 --> 02:17:29,039
Speaker 1: list a species is likely to get challenged from both

2177
02:17:29,040 --> 02:17:31,560
Speaker 1: sides everyone. I want to point. I want to go

2178
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:38,520
Speaker 1: on recent. I love, like, love, love grizzly bears, love

2179
02:17:38,560 --> 02:17:42,200
Speaker 1: love love them. Yeah, how come? This is what I'm

2180
02:17:42,200 --> 02:17:44,760
Speaker 1: curious about, because you know, I'm in places that don't

2181
02:17:44,800 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 1: have them, and I'm wandering around. It feels like something's missing.

2182
02:17:49,320 --> 02:17:52,280
Speaker 1: I like them everything about them, like looking at him,

2183
02:17:52,320 --> 02:17:54,200
Speaker 1: I like being afraid of them. I like everything. Do

2184
02:17:54,240 --> 02:17:57,680
Speaker 1: you like that they're no longer top dog when reute?

2185
02:17:58,680 --> 02:18:01,520
Speaker 1: I love them. I'd like to seemn more places. I

2186
02:18:01,520 --> 02:18:03,160
Speaker 1: want to go on record saying that I'm wanna go

2187
02:18:03,160 --> 02:18:05,600
Speaker 1: on record saying I'm a stall a supporter of the

2188
02:18:05,680 --> 02:18:09,560
Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act in like in general as a thing,

2189
02:18:09,959 --> 02:18:13,200
Speaker 1: Like is it always used perfectly? No, It's like I'm

2190
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:15,119
Speaker 1: in favor of having my kids live in my house.

2191
02:18:16,360 --> 02:18:18,199
Speaker 1: Are there like parts of things I wish they would

2192
02:18:18,200 --> 02:18:20,280
Speaker 1: do differently? It was like, I want them there, I

2193
02:18:20,320 --> 02:18:23,080
Speaker 1: just wish they didn't weren't there all the time. Yeah,

2194
02:18:23,160 --> 02:18:25,240
Speaker 1: I pick up when they're done. I don't know. So

2195
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:28,520
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, like I love it, It's fantastic, would

2196
02:18:28,520 --> 02:18:30,840
Speaker 1: be a worst country without it. But in this case,

2197
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:32,600
Speaker 1: it's gotten a little silly, and it's just in my

2198
02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:34,760
Speaker 1: personal opinion, I don't I'm not trying to put words

2199
02:18:34,760 --> 02:18:37,080
Speaker 1: in your mouth. Well yeah, and I mean I agree

2200
02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:39,480
Speaker 1: with you and that I think the Endangered Species Act

2201
02:18:40,360 --> 02:18:42,960
Speaker 1: is there for the species who really need it, and

2202
02:18:43,160 --> 02:18:45,400
Speaker 1: I'd like to be putting more time and effort into

2203
02:18:45,440 --> 02:18:47,840
Speaker 1: those species that really need it. And I think grizzly

2204
02:18:47,959 --> 02:18:52,360
Speaker 1: bears are so far in the continuum of being recovered

2205
02:18:52,520 --> 02:18:54,760
Speaker 1: that I would like to spend the time and money

2206
02:18:54,760 --> 02:18:59,879
Speaker 1: on another species, knowing just like wolves, it's not that

2207
02:19:00,120 --> 02:19:04,520
Speaker 1: switch We're never done with managing grizzly bears and ensuring

2208
02:19:04,560 --> 02:19:08,320
Speaker 1: their long term recovery and managing them for the people

2209
02:19:09,040 --> 02:19:15,240
Speaker 1: who live with them. Um, so I think they're biologically recovered,

2210
02:19:15,920 --> 02:19:19,480
Speaker 1: and yes, we're in the business of of managing them

2211
02:19:19,520 --> 02:19:23,520
Speaker 1: for a long time to come. Okay, what else is

2212
02:19:23,520 --> 02:19:25,080
Speaker 1: there any that you're like? Man, which this guy would

2213
02:19:25,160 --> 02:19:30,480
Speaker 1: ask me about. No, you said I didn't ask you

2214
02:19:30,480 --> 02:19:31,800
Speaker 1: about you. You don't want to be asked about your

2215
02:19:31,840 --> 02:19:36,200
Speaker 1: personal life. Well, it's boring. Where were you born? I

2216
02:19:36,280 --> 02:19:40,320
Speaker 1: was born on a farm in Maryland. And um, you

2217
02:19:40,360 --> 02:19:44,000
Speaker 1: went to law school obviously in Missoula. Have you always

2218
02:19:44,040 --> 02:19:48,480
Speaker 1: been law? Public? Land? Law's where I went there? Yeah,

2219
02:19:48,640 --> 02:19:51,640
Speaker 1: so if you always worked in the public sector, ye,

2220
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:55,680
Speaker 1: you never like an ambulance chaser, I probably should have been.

2221
02:19:55,920 --> 02:20:00,120
Speaker 1: My kids would like it maybe better. But no, oh,

2222
02:20:00,200 --> 02:20:02,680
Speaker 1: I mean, like a word, you have always worked around

2223
02:20:02,760 --> 02:20:07,000
Speaker 1: land and wildlife issues. We got the land and being

2224
02:20:07,080 --> 02:20:10,560
Speaker 1: outside is just in my blood and it just was

2225
02:20:10,680 --> 02:20:13,040
Speaker 1: my way of giving back kind of farmed your grandpa,

2226
02:20:13,520 --> 02:20:22,880
Speaker 1: um subsistence my you know, we had steers, pigs, milk, cow, chickens, um, wheat, corn, hay,

2227
02:20:23,879 --> 02:20:26,879
Speaker 1: big big garden, my parents are in their late eighties

2228
02:20:26,959 --> 02:20:31,280
Speaker 1: and are still running the farm. And they taught me

2229
02:20:32,040 --> 02:20:35,320
Speaker 1: like we always knew when the swallows came in and left,

2230
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:38,440
Speaker 1: and would see the different times. You know how that's

2231
02:20:38,520 --> 02:20:40,880
Speaker 1: changed every time. My mom taught me all of the

2232
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:44,000
Speaker 1: plants in the woods. We would sleep out in the

2233
02:20:44,840 --> 02:20:47,520
Speaker 1: rows of straw in the summer nights, just out in

2234
02:20:47,560 --> 02:20:50,120
Speaker 1: the middle of the I remember getting lost in a

2235
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:54,000
Speaker 1: corn field once because I was teeny and the corn was,

2236
02:20:54,360 --> 02:20:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, way above my head, and my parents didn't

2237
02:20:57,440 --> 02:20:59,240
Speaker 1: know where we were. We were just running around in

2238
02:20:59,280 --> 02:21:02,800
Speaker 1: the corn field. Yeah, children of the corn man. When

2239
02:21:02,840 --> 02:21:07,760
Speaker 1: you're a little kids scary out of cornfield. They should

2240
02:21:07,800 --> 02:21:10,000
Speaker 1: have been worried. So what year did you move to

2241
02:21:10,200 --> 02:21:13,920
Speaker 1: where Montana? I went to move to Missoula to go

2242
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:17,280
Speaker 1: to law school in ninety one, I think. And I

2243
02:21:17,360 --> 02:21:20,680
Speaker 1: spent my high school in college summers in Wyoming working

2244
02:21:20,760 --> 02:21:24,199
Speaker 1: on a ranch. It made me I always loved the land,

2245
02:21:24,320 --> 02:21:27,320
Speaker 1: but it was psyched to get away from the East

2246
02:21:27,400 --> 02:21:30,240
Speaker 1: Coast and just fell in love with public lands. And

2247
02:21:30,280 --> 02:21:33,000
Speaker 1: you got some you got some kids mostly raised up. Yeah,

2248
02:21:33,040 --> 02:21:35,080
Speaker 1: and they're probably at this point whatever they're going to

2249
02:21:35,160 --> 02:21:38,119
Speaker 1: be there, there's nothing gonna do about it now, Isn't

2250
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:43,359
Speaker 1: that scared? But they're turning into really nice people, congratulations,

2251
02:21:43,959 --> 02:21:48,119
Speaker 1: I think. And they loved the outdoors. That's a good way.

2252
02:21:48,240 --> 02:21:52,039
Speaker 1: Like when you're all done parenting, you're never done. You've

2253
02:21:52,040 --> 02:21:53,400
Speaker 1: never done. I mean, like a good thing would be

2254
02:21:53,440 --> 02:21:55,560
Speaker 1: like in the end, be like, how'd it go right

2255
02:21:55,920 --> 02:21:57,760
Speaker 1: to be? Like, you know, they're pretty nice people, yeah,

2256
02:21:58,120 --> 02:22:01,840
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of things that should be

2257
02:22:01,879 --> 02:22:05,120
Speaker 1: the measure right right, So they're pretty nice. Let me

2258
02:22:05,160 --> 02:22:07,720
Speaker 1: tell you this one thing. I we they grew up

2259
02:22:07,800 --> 02:22:12,680
Speaker 1: on adventure points. Have you ever heard of adventure points? So, um,

2260
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:15,640
Speaker 1: we had a board where if they added up their

2261
02:22:15,640 --> 02:22:18,080
Speaker 1: adventure points, we could get a certain trip. So like

2262
02:22:18,360 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 1: once when we were in a Yellowstone a really cold night,

2263
02:22:23,800 --> 02:22:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean I think it was like minus thirty degrees

2264
02:22:26,040 --> 02:22:28,600
Speaker 1: and us like if you it was in years, we

2265
02:22:28,680 --> 02:22:32,160
Speaker 1: went out cross country skiing to Ring in New Year's

2266
02:22:32,280 --> 02:22:35,840
Speaker 1: and they're like, mom, it's freaking cold out. I'm like,

2267
02:22:36,040 --> 02:22:39,840
Speaker 1: you get twenty adventure points if we go out skiing

2268
02:22:39,920 --> 02:22:45,280
Speaker 1: to Ring in the New Year. I'm adopting the best

2269
02:22:45,360 --> 02:22:47,160
Speaker 1: And the only way they could trade them in was

2270
02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:51,120
Speaker 1: for the next adventure, So that's all right, not for

2271
02:22:51,480 --> 02:22:57,800
Speaker 1: chocolate bars, because that's what my girls for, you know, Yeah,

2272
02:22:57,920 --> 02:23:00,640
Speaker 1: whatever you want. Think about being like daddy of like

2273
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:04,400
Speaker 1: being a nice person. By My beloved sister in law

2274
02:23:04,560 --> 02:23:07,480
Speaker 1: was recently in a she's in a vehicle accident. She's

2275
02:23:07,520 --> 02:23:10,640
Speaker 1: everybody's fine, she's fine, but someone else's at fault. You know,

2276
02:23:10,760 --> 02:23:14,120
Speaker 1: they like crashed into her car and it turns out

2277
02:23:14,120 --> 02:23:16,640
Speaker 1: they don't have insurance. So I'm on the phone there

2278
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:19,960
Speaker 1: and UM, I'm like, why, you know, I guess you're

2279
02:23:19,959 --> 02:23:21,640
Speaker 1: gonna have to go after this guy. What are you

2280
02:23:21,640 --> 02:23:24,480
Speaker 1: gonna do to go after him? And she's like, you know,

2281
02:23:24,760 --> 02:23:27,960
Speaker 1: he seems to have a lot of um problems right now,

2282
02:23:28,440 --> 02:23:30,480
Speaker 1: so that's not something I'm gonna do. And she goes,

2283
02:23:30,520 --> 02:23:33,400
Speaker 1: in fact, I'm I gotta go because I'm supposed to

2284
02:23:33,400 --> 02:23:37,000
Speaker 1: give him a call and see how he's doing. Kind

2285
02:23:37,040 --> 02:23:40,600
Speaker 1: of melted my heart, right, you know, like, pretty nice person.

2286
02:23:41,120 --> 02:23:44,960
Speaker 1: It's okay to be a nice person, isn't it not?

2287
02:23:45,400 --> 02:23:47,080
Speaker 1: Just wake up every day and be like I'm gonna

2288
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:52,000
Speaker 1: make someone pay out? Maybe are we all like that?

2289
02:23:52,160 --> 02:23:56,800
Speaker 1: Because we um like to be outside so much. I

2290
02:23:56,959 --> 02:23:58,760
Speaker 1: like to think that people would like to be outside,

2291
02:23:58,879 --> 02:24:01,440
Speaker 1: But man, I don't know Claude Dallas was outside all

2292
02:24:01,440 --> 02:24:08,880
Speaker 1: the time. We talked about him the other day. Anomaly. Yeah,

2293
02:24:08,959 --> 02:24:10,920
Speaker 1: I do. I have a lot vested. I have a

2294
02:24:11,000 --> 02:24:17,040
Speaker 1: lot um in child raising. Um, I've thrown down pretty hard.

2295
02:24:18,560 --> 02:24:21,360
Speaker 1: Like my whole thesis is sort of based around the

2296
02:24:21,520 --> 02:24:27,520
Speaker 1: idea that outdoor experiences UM and all that goes with them,

2297
02:24:27,959 --> 02:24:32,959
Speaker 1: the people, everything that that that's a path toward parenting success.

2298
02:24:33,600 --> 02:24:35,120
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not wrong. So if I'm wrong, I

2299
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:39,720
Speaker 1: will be real wrong. I've really like pounded it into

2300
02:24:39,760 --> 02:24:43,640
Speaker 1: him that that's important. So if I if that's screwed up,

2301
02:24:43,720 --> 02:24:47,440
Speaker 1: then I'm just gonna have to rely on luck after that. Right,

2302
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:50,080
Speaker 1: let's visit in twenty years. I hope we're all on

2303
02:24:50,280 --> 02:24:53,920
Speaker 1: some sort of similar path, right, Greg, Yeah, I hope

2304
02:24:53,959 --> 02:24:59,600
Speaker 1: my kids are all nice? Yeah, nice and happy? What

2305
02:24:59,680 --> 02:25:03,400
Speaker 1: else you up? Yeah? I'm just thinking. I gotta wife's

2306
02:25:03,400 --> 02:25:05,160
Speaker 1: out of town to night, so I gotta cook dinner

2307
02:25:05,280 --> 02:25:10,039
Speaker 1: for him by myself and wrangle them into bed. They're

2308
02:25:10,120 --> 02:25:17,560
Speaker 1: nice to me tonight, Oh you got uh? So I

2309
02:25:17,640 --> 02:25:20,119
Speaker 1: owe you like a night of babysitting. You haven't redeemed?

2310
02:25:20,640 --> 02:25:25,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll get to that UM real quick. I

2311
02:25:25,440 --> 02:25:27,440
Speaker 1: know that in the last couple of three years, I

2312
02:25:27,520 --> 02:25:29,560
Speaker 1: think we've been as Montana has been selling out a

2313
02:25:29,640 --> 02:25:35,160
Speaker 1: nonresident taka mule here. That number is pretty much capped

2314
02:25:35,320 --> 02:25:39,360
Speaker 1: right for how many and until the Commission decides to

2315
02:25:39,440 --> 02:25:47,000
Speaker 1: change its statue. It was a ballot initiative that kept

2316
02:25:47,080 --> 02:25:50,920
Speaker 1: it UM and I can't remember what year that was,

2317
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:54,320
Speaker 1: So that'll stay at whatever what it's like, eleven thousand

2318
02:25:54,440 --> 02:25:57,280
Speaker 1: or something like that. There's a couple of numbers and uh,

2319
02:25:57,760 --> 02:26:02,520
Speaker 1: it's seventeen thousand for deer outcome UM, so that the

2320
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:05,520
Speaker 1: non residentari combos are kept at seventeen thou and we

2321
02:26:06,160 --> 02:26:08,640
Speaker 1: we had a time where we weren't selling out because

2322
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:12,160
Speaker 1: when they capped it, then that initiative raised there was

2323
02:26:12,200 --> 02:26:14,640
Speaker 1: a year of sticker shot, a couple of years of

2324
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:18,240
Speaker 1: sticker shot, and so now but we've been selling out

2325
02:26:19,080 --> 02:26:21,760
Speaker 1: the last three years. Yeah, and now we're selling them

2326
02:26:21,800 --> 02:26:26,200
Speaker 1: out sooner and sooner year. But until another ballot initiative

2327
02:26:26,240 --> 02:26:29,920
Speaker 1: calms that number will stay or legislative, I mean it

2328
02:26:30,000 --> 02:26:34,120
Speaker 1: can the legislature could change that without a ballot initiative,

2329
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:36,600
Speaker 1: with or without I hope they can make it that

2330
02:26:36,640 --> 02:26:40,000
Speaker 1: it can't be changed, it can only be lowered constitutional.

2331
02:26:40,720 --> 02:26:45,720
Speaker 1: But my question is what are resident tag numbers doing?

2332
02:26:46,800 --> 02:26:51,160
Speaker 1: So the resident tags have been pretty steady. We we're

2333
02:26:51,480 --> 02:26:55,119
Speaker 1: so unlike some states where the resident tags are going

2334
02:26:55,200 --> 02:27:00,879
Speaker 1: down or the fewer people participating in Montana, we've had

2335
02:27:00,959 --> 02:27:05,280
Speaker 1: steady participation. And we're also seeing, or we think, is

2336
02:27:05,360 --> 02:27:11,320
Speaker 1: that more of our license buyers are buying more types

2337
02:27:11,440 --> 02:27:17,440
Speaker 1: of licenses. So, um, that's a good I think that's

2338
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:19,000
Speaker 1: a good song. So all you ever hear about is

2339
02:27:19,080 --> 02:27:22,880
Speaker 1: declining hunting participation not here yet, but we can't rest

2340
02:27:22,959 --> 02:27:26,160
Speaker 1: on our laurel, so I don't think. But we hear

2341
02:27:26,200 --> 02:27:28,160
Speaker 1: a lot about that. But I feel like we also

2342
02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:31,120
Speaker 1: hear about like the balls is like, yeah, that's what

2343
02:27:31,240 --> 02:27:34,280
Speaker 1: they say, this are three stuff. But when was the

2344
02:27:34,360 --> 02:27:35,840
Speaker 1: last time you went into the woods and felt like

2345
02:27:35,920 --> 02:27:38,440
Speaker 1: we needed more hunters? People? The people that hunt are

2346
02:27:38,480 --> 02:27:40,400
Speaker 1: more die hard and are more likely to travel on

2347
02:27:40,680 --> 02:27:43,840
Speaker 1: multiple states. Man, that's our theory. I gets backed up

2348
02:27:43,879 --> 02:27:46,560
Speaker 1: by some data. Well I don't know what our how

2349
02:27:46,600 --> 02:27:49,560
Speaker 1: our data would speak to that, but I think you know,

2350
02:27:49,720 --> 02:27:52,520
Speaker 1: we we've got Whenever we talk about our three you

2351
02:27:52,600 --> 02:27:55,400
Speaker 1: have people that say just that, Like I don't know.

2352
02:27:55,640 --> 02:27:58,560
Speaker 1: I went out to my block management area and there's

2353
02:27:58,680 --> 02:28:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, twelve trucks. The Yeah, I used to be

2354
02:28:01,800 --> 02:28:04,240
Speaker 1: pro R three but I'm reconsidering. But I was just

2355
02:28:04,360 --> 02:28:07,440
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin over the weekend and it's and it was

2356
02:28:07,480 --> 02:28:09,560
Speaker 1: the same when I was there two years ago for

2357
02:28:09,680 --> 02:28:12,440
Speaker 1: opening week a rifle Compared to when I was a kid,

2358
02:28:12,640 --> 02:28:15,520
Speaker 1: and even you know, maybe into my early twenties, it

2359
02:28:15,640 --> 02:28:19,040
Speaker 1: was it's a marked difference on Saturday morning, the amount

2360
02:28:19,080 --> 02:28:22,120
Speaker 1: of shooting that you hear a lot more, no, a

2361
02:28:22,200 --> 02:28:26,080
Speaker 1: lot less where in Wisconsin and we go and visit

2362
02:28:26,120 --> 02:28:28,680
Speaker 1: with all the neighbors usually at some point either before

2363
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:32,160
Speaker 1: a season or you know, over the weekend, and there's

2364
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:36,280
Speaker 1: just it's the same thing. It's like the elders aren't

2365
02:28:36,440 --> 02:28:39,039
Speaker 1: like they're getting old and so there's not really making

2366
02:28:39,040 --> 02:28:40,560
Speaker 1: it into the woods. And then you go to that

2367
02:28:40,680 --> 02:28:45,160
Speaker 1: camp and there aren't the um younger cousins or nephews

2368
02:28:45,360 --> 02:28:47,720
Speaker 1: or grandkids. And even in the camp that I was

2369
02:28:47,800 --> 02:28:50,120
Speaker 1: in this weekend, I mean I was the youngest there

2370
02:28:50,240 --> 02:28:58,080
Speaker 1: by thirty years. Okay, maybe I'm a lot close to it,

2371
02:28:58,240 --> 02:29:01,840
Speaker 1: close to thirty. Yeah, Well, I think the one of

2372
02:29:01,879 --> 02:29:03,920
Speaker 1: the things I say about our three is that it's

2373
02:29:03,959 --> 02:29:07,440
Speaker 1: not it's not just the numbers, like the percentage. Even

2374
02:29:07,480 --> 02:29:12,240
Speaker 1: in Montana, the percentage of population that's participating is the last.

2375
02:29:12,440 --> 02:29:15,520
Speaker 1: So our numbers are stable from a license sales standpoint,

2376
02:29:15,800 --> 02:29:18,000
Speaker 1: or you know, they sort of way like this, but

2377
02:29:18,120 --> 02:29:20,760
Speaker 1: speaks to a demographic shift. Yeah, Like I and I

2378
02:29:20,920 --> 02:29:23,959
Speaker 1: used this analogy that you're more apt to to marry

2379
02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:27,040
Speaker 1: a non hunter in two thousand nineteen than you were

2380
02:29:27,080 --> 02:29:29,960
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen. And that's not maybe a

2381
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:32,520
Speaker 1: big deal because maybe you marry somebody that's supportive of

2382
02:29:32,640 --> 02:29:37,000
Speaker 1: hunting but isn't a hunter, but that's still that adds

2383
02:29:37,480 --> 02:29:40,320
Speaker 1: that that little bit of hurdle some money that that

2384
02:29:40,600 --> 02:29:43,280
Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't grow up around guns, maybe you know,

2385
02:29:43,440 --> 02:29:46,560
Speaker 1: and that just doesn't really understand him. Then the kids

2386
02:29:46,640 --> 02:29:50,320
Speaker 1: grow up and you have this sort of this sort

2387
02:29:50,360 --> 02:29:52,080
Speaker 1: of plan that you have to put into place on

2388
02:29:52,160 --> 02:29:54,040
Speaker 1: how you're gonna get the kids out hunting and that

2389
02:29:54,160 --> 02:29:56,600
Speaker 1: sort of thing. When when we were kids, there wasn't

2390
02:29:56,879 --> 02:29:58,800
Speaker 1: I didn't have any that wasn't even part of the plan.

2391
02:29:58,920 --> 02:30:01,800
Speaker 1: I just I just gotta bb gun and said get

2392
02:30:01,840 --> 02:30:05,360
Speaker 1: out of the house, you know, And people aren't gonna like,

2393
02:30:05,480 --> 02:30:07,200
Speaker 1: my brother kind of talked me out of being here.

2394
02:30:07,240 --> 02:30:10,200
Speaker 1: He's in the process of talking me out of being um,

2395
02:30:10,959 --> 02:30:13,240
Speaker 1: talking to me out of being pro R three, which

2396
02:30:13,440 --> 02:30:18,560
Speaker 1: was it Retention, recruitment and reactivation pro more hunters. Uh,

2397
02:30:18,959 --> 02:30:21,280
Speaker 1: he's he's he is in the process of talking to me.

2398
02:30:21,360 --> 02:30:24,360
Speaker 1: Ought to be in that way, and um, we're never

2399
02:30:24,440 --> 02:30:29,879
Speaker 1: gonna like hunters aren't gonna wreak the rewards of fewer

2400
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:35,320
Speaker 1: hunters because people just gonna like now like, well no,

2401
02:30:35,440 --> 02:30:38,000
Speaker 1: but I'm saying, yeah, that's what I argue. But the

2402
02:30:38,080 --> 02:30:40,119
Speaker 1: thing is, you're never gonna be like that because you're

2403
02:30:40,160 --> 02:30:41,879
Speaker 1: never gonna be like, oh, it's a lot. The woods

2404
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:43,840
Speaker 1: are better now because people just lease it all up.

2405
02:30:44,200 --> 02:30:45,800
Speaker 1: Like people used to not lease stuff and now people

2406
02:30:45,840 --> 02:30:50,279
Speaker 1: just lease properties. So the day that like, from his perspective,

2407
02:30:50,280 --> 02:30:52,720
Speaker 1: he'd be like the day someone comes to me and says,

2408
02:30:53,920 --> 02:30:58,560
Speaker 1: I have a big, beautiful ranch and by god, I'm

2409
02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:00,560
Speaker 1: just trying to get someone to come out and hunted

2410
02:31:00,640 --> 02:31:02,800
Speaker 1: full of deer and out, but I can't find anyone

2411
02:31:02,879 --> 02:31:06,560
Speaker 1: to hunt. He's like, on that day, I'll become like

2412
02:31:06,640 --> 02:31:10,400
Speaker 1: a pro recruitment dude. But that day hasn't happened, and

2413
02:31:10,480 --> 02:31:13,840
Speaker 1: it's there are you know, just like fewer places to go,

2414
02:31:14,160 --> 02:31:16,360
Speaker 1: and when you go, there's more people in them. And

2415
02:31:16,440 --> 02:31:18,240
Speaker 1: so it's really hard to get people on board with

2416
02:31:18,320 --> 02:31:20,760
Speaker 1: the idea that you that that that we need a

2417
02:31:20,840 --> 02:31:24,119
Speaker 1: bunch more people. You know, you got like there's people

2418
02:31:24,160 --> 02:31:26,920
Speaker 1: I know that LEASA properties they leased up the hunting

2419
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:29,560
Speaker 1: rights on property. They don't even hunt them. They just

2420
02:31:29,680 --> 02:31:32,520
Speaker 1: want to know that no one's hunting them, just like

2421
02:31:32,920 --> 02:31:34,840
Speaker 1: like actual you know, they want to know that if

2422
02:31:34,920 --> 02:31:36,280
Speaker 1: they wanted to go, there to be no one there.

2423
02:31:36,320 --> 02:31:39,119
Speaker 1: And last year I don't even go. It's just it's

2424
02:31:39,160 --> 02:31:42,440
Speaker 1: hard to get Uh, it's hard to get excited about.

2425
02:31:42,640 --> 02:31:44,080
Speaker 1: It's hard for people to get a lot of people.

2426
02:31:44,120 --> 02:31:45,520
Speaker 1: It's hard to get excited about a bunch of more

2427
02:31:45,600 --> 02:31:48,600
Speaker 1: hunters on the woods. Well, and I don't think we're talking,

2428
02:31:49,200 --> 02:31:51,960
Speaker 1: uh we're not. The goal isn't to have a bunch

2429
02:31:52,040 --> 02:31:53,960
Speaker 1: more hunters. I think it's the R three is just

2430
02:31:54,080 --> 02:31:58,200
Speaker 1: part of it. And access. Access is another key part

2431
02:31:58,280 --> 02:31:59,800
Speaker 1: as a key part ARE three, but it's also a

2432
02:32:00,200 --> 02:32:02,600
Speaker 1: part of just what we do, you know, and trying

2433
02:32:02,640 --> 02:32:06,959
Speaker 1: to get people people and landowners, you know, the shifting

2434
02:32:07,240 --> 02:32:10,720
Speaker 1: shifting landowners, like you're talking about, you know where where

2435
02:32:10,959 --> 02:32:15,360
Speaker 1: the communities, people in small communities, they used to know

2436
02:32:15,480 --> 02:32:18,400
Speaker 1: who would call to go get on Johnson's Place or

2437
02:32:18,480 --> 02:32:22,280
Speaker 1: the k bar L ranch or whatever, and today they

2438
02:32:22,360 --> 02:32:24,520
Speaker 1: might not. I mean, there just might be a landowner

2439
02:32:24,600 --> 02:32:26,640
Speaker 1: that is just not not as much a part of

2440
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:30,400
Speaker 1: the community as they used to be. But so so

2441
02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:34,000
Speaker 1: it's all it's all sort of um, part of the

2442
02:32:34,080 --> 02:32:37,200
Speaker 1: fabric of of sort of what we have to face

2443
02:32:37,480 --> 02:32:41,080
Speaker 1: with the department, and I think primarily what where in

2444
02:32:41,200 --> 02:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Martha's talked about this a lot internally too, but is

2445
02:32:45,000 --> 02:32:48,240
Speaker 1: looking to sort of figure out how to have those

2446
02:32:48,320 --> 02:32:51,960
Speaker 1: meaningful experiences outdoors because it's not it's not just that

2447
02:32:52,160 --> 02:32:54,039
Speaker 1: you can only do that by hunting, or you can

2448
02:32:54,120 --> 02:32:59,080
Speaker 1: only do that by fishing. Trap you can or by trapping, right,

2449
02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:02,840
Speaker 1: but we but we talk about it. I mean, we

2450
02:33:02,959 --> 02:33:06,360
Speaker 1: can think about like these meaningful episodes that we've had

2451
02:33:06,440 --> 02:33:10,040
Speaker 1: outdoors that have shaped who we are. And there's like

2452
02:33:10,720 --> 02:33:15,120
Speaker 1: there's one after another after another after another, UM and

2453
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:17,800
Speaker 1: some people don't and even in Montana, some people don't

2454
02:33:17,840 --> 02:33:20,039
Speaker 1: get that. I mean, we you know, on the at

2455
02:33:20,120 --> 02:33:23,080
Speaker 1: the from our education program and we've got um like

2456
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:27,760
Speaker 1: our aquatic gad uh. We're in fifth grades around the

2457
02:33:27,840 --> 02:33:30,920
Speaker 1: state doing you know, education about fisheries and things like that.

2458
02:33:31,600 --> 02:33:34,800
Speaker 1: You'd be amazed at the number of kids that look

2459
02:33:34,840 --> 02:33:36,400
Speaker 1: at a fish and they don't they don't know that's

2460
02:33:36,400 --> 02:33:41,400
Speaker 1: a perch. I mean that usually, Yeah, I mean in Montana,

2461
02:33:41,840 --> 02:33:46,240
Speaker 1: they just it's it's even here we're becoming more urbanized

2462
02:33:46,280 --> 02:33:48,520
Speaker 1: where you know, in the state where you think like,

2463
02:33:48,720 --> 02:33:52,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, this is Montana. Couldn couldn't possibly be true here,

2464
02:33:52,080 --> 02:33:54,720
Speaker 1: but it is true. And so I think beyond they

2465
02:33:54,720 --> 02:33:56,920
Speaker 1: are three discussion of how do we sell more licenses?

2466
02:33:57,000 --> 02:34:01,560
Speaker 1: That's it's really not our focus when we have that conversation,

2467
02:34:01,680 --> 02:34:04,000
Speaker 1: are is how do we get how do we sort

2468
02:34:04,040 --> 02:34:07,959
Speaker 1: of build up the next generation at conservationists. They're concerned about,

2469
02:34:08,840 --> 02:34:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that go into loving the outdoors. Yeah,

2470
02:34:12,360 --> 02:34:14,760
Speaker 1: that's the That's the when I talk about this debate

2471
02:34:14,920 --> 02:34:17,800
Speaker 1: I have with my brother, that's the one I do. Yeah,

2472
02:34:17,840 --> 02:34:19,520
Speaker 1: I'll do that side of it. I don't know, you

2473
02:34:19,560 --> 02:34:21,840
Speaker 1: know what me and Yanni are. We're running for president.

2474
02:34:22,120 --> 02:34:24,920
Speaker 1: I heard that because I had suggested that Yanni running

2475
02:34:24,959 --> 02:34:27,600
Speaker 1: for mayorbles but he said he's got another gig because

2476
02:34:27,600 --> 02:34:30,520
Speaker 1: we're all tied up with being president. Um. But all

2477
02:34:30,600 --> 02:34:33,760
Speaker 1: the money when people buy our Runella tell Us Better

2478
02:34:33,840 --> 02:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Hunting and Fishing for America shirts, all of our money,

2479
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:39,560
Speaker 1: we're putting it into our access piggy bank. We're gonna

2480
02:34:39,640 --> 02:34:45,120
Speaker 1: use it for an access project. Stickers yard signs. We

2481
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:48,760
Speaker 1: don't know what cal our Boddy. Cal's uneasy with the

2482
02:34:48,840 --> 02:34:51,800
Speaker 1: lack of specificity we've had so far, but trust me, no, no,

2483
02:34:51,879 --> 02:34:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm serious. It's like a thing. We're like banking the money.

2484
02:34:54,400 --> 02:34:57,480
Speaker 1: We're having access piggy bank, and we're right now currently

2485
02:34:57,520 --> 02:35:00,440
Speaker 1: looking at different kinds of access projects or group we

2486
02:35:00,520 --> 02:35:04,240
Speaker 1: would help with an access a land acquisition that would

2487
02:35:04,280 --> 02:35:08,400
Speaker 1: open up land locked public lands. We'll figure it out. Yeah,

2488
02:35:08,640 --> 02:35:12,600
Speaker 1: you have one in mind. No, but it's funny. We

2489
02:35:12,640 --> 02:35:15,480
Speaker 1: should talk sometime. No, we don't. I want to do

2490
02:35:15,560 --> 02:35:18,120
Speaker 1: a combo that we're gonna take our piggy bank and

2491
02:35:18,160 --> 02:35:20,400
Speaker 1: then I want to run a go fund me project

2492
02:35:20,480 --> 02:35:23,000
Speaker 1: and look at some specific acquisitions and to see if

2493
02:35:23,000 --> 02:35:24,480
Speaker 1: people would think it would be fun to throw in

2494
02:35:24,600 --> 02:35:26,320
Speaker 1: five bucks and buy a chunk land and have it

2495
02:35:26,400 --> 02:35:29,960
Speaker 1: be for public access. Then we'll go recruit a hunter

2496
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:33,360
Speaker 1: or two to go on there and on. Um, yeah,

2497
02:35:33,520 --> 02:35:38,160
Speaker 1: so there's that our our nome packing out a unicorn

2498
02:35:39,320 --> 02:35:42,800
Speaker 1: T shirt. There's now joining with a gnome who's reeling

2499
02:35:42,840 --> 02:35:47,200
Speaker 1: in a mermaid doing battle the mermaid is the title

2500
02:35:47,280 --> 02:35:51,959
Speaker 1: actually nome tussling tussling with a mermaid. People who want

2501
02:35:52,000 --> 02:35:53,400
Speaker 1: to know what happened, But I don't know. It could

2502
02:35:53,400 --> 02:35:56,040
Speaker 1: be incidental bycatch, it could be a courtship ritual. I

2503
02:35:56,080 --> 02:35:58,320
Speaker 1: don't know. It's just a gnome and he happens to

2504
02:35:58,400 --> 02:36:01,400
Speaker 1: have a mermaid on. I'm not saying what's gonna happen.

2505
02:36:01,520 --> 02:36:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what they got going on. She might

2506
02:36:03,720 --> 02:36:06,280
Speaker 1: be messing with him. My brother thinks that she's pulling

2507
02:36:06,360 --> 02:36:09,240
Speaker 1: him in to kill him. Um, hey, wait a minute,

2508
02:36:09,440 --> 02:36:12,200
Speaker 1: you're assuming the mermaid says she and the gnomes that

2509
02:36:12,360 --> 02:36:15,000
Speaker 1: he it's very female mermaid and a very male No,

2510
02:36:15,520 --> 02:36:20,840
Speaker 1: it's a bearded gnome Like yeah, I wouldn't go it's

2511
02:36:20,840 --> 02:36:23,039
Speaker 1: not like an erotic mermaid. But it's a female form.

2512
02:36:23,120 --> 02:36:28,240
Speaker 1: It's a female mermaid. Could use a term voluptuous. It's

2513
02:36:28,240 --> 02:36:32,200
Speaker 1: a female form. And then uh, we have our nome. Uh,

2514
02:36:32,320 --> 02:36:34,520
Speaker 1: we have our T shirt out coming out with our nome.

2515
02:36:34,680 --> 02:36:36,920
Speaker 1: That's in Uh, you know those old pictures of our

2516
02:36:37,000 --> 02:36:38,800
Speaker 1: mountain man's got his knife and he's in a fight

2517
02:36:38,879 --> 02:36:41,480
Speaker 1: with a grizzly. It's our Nomes in a in a

2518
02:36:41,840 --> 02:36:45,959
Speaker 1: knife fight with a bigfoot. The big foot's got him good,

2519
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:48,560
Speaker 1: but he's also got his bowie knife out. And I

2520
02:36:48,640 --> 02:36:50,960
Speaker 1: gotta said, We've getting a lot of ideas for Gnome shirts.

2521
02:36:51,000 --> 02:36:52,800
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna start working on. Next is a

2522
02:36:52,800 --> 02:36:54,800
Speaker 1: Gnome in a blind and it's a big flock of

2523
02:36:54,920 --> 02:36:59,240
Speaker 1: dragons coming in all cupped out, all cupped out, coming

2524
02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:02,120
Speaker 1: into the deco is gonna be sweet, man. So you

2525
02:37:02,160 --> 02:37:05,640
Speaker 1: can find all. You can also find our Nome packing out.

2526
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:10,200
Speaker 1: A unicorn shirt is back in full color. Yeah, no,

2527
02:37:10,280 --> 02:37:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm packing out a unicorn full color. Find it all

2528
02:37:13,160 --> 02:37:14,760
Speaker 1: the whole g Nome line up and then no one.

2529
02:37:14,879 --> 02:37:16,240
Speaker 1: I think this is going to turn into like a

2530
02:37:16,280 --> 02:37:21,920
Speaker 1: big expansion of game themed products. Man. Uh you guys good,

2531
02:37:22,320 --> 02:37:25,200
Speaker 1: We're good. Thanks for sitting to our little plug there.

2532
02:37:25,560 --> 02:37:27,440
Speaker 1: It was a natural plug because it started out talking

2533
02:37:27,440 --> 02:37:31,120
Speaker 1: about our access fund. Ronella Propels. Don't tell everybody. I

2534
02:37:31,160 --> 02:37:32,680
Speaker 1: know you're gonna write us in when you vote, But

2535
02:37:32,680 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 1: don't tell people because I know you don't want to

2536
02:37:34,040 --> 02:37:37,680
Speaker 1: get partisan. Yeah, that's right. I don't know. I don't

2537
02:37:37,720 --> 02:37:45,840
Speaker 1: even vote. No, I'm just um, Martha, thank you very

2538
02:37:45,920 --> 02:37:48,080
Speaker 1: much for coming on. Thank you. If there's ever something

2539
02:37:48,200 --> 02:37:49,640
Speaker 1: that comes up and you really need to come and

2540
02:37:49,720 --> 02:37:51,320
Speaker 1: talk to someone about, you should come talk to us

2541
02:37:51,320 --> 02:37:53,800
Speaker 1: about it. All right, all right. I love how you

2542
02:37:53,920 --> 02:37:57,200
Speaker 1: dive into the issues. We need to do this more. Yeah,

2543
02:37:58,120 --> 02:38:05,440
Speaker 1: I enjoy it, and I say too. I'll say that

2544
02:38:05,560 --> 02:38:08,040
Speaker 1: too if you guys come up to come up with stuff,

2545
02:38:08,040 --> 02:38:12,000
Speaker 1: because I I we listen and I hear these, you know, conversations,

2546
02:38:12,040 --> 02:38:15,560
Speaker 1: and I think one of them was, yeah, I canna

2547
02:38:15,560 --> 02:38:17,080
Speaker 1: say something we did that was wrong? No, no, no,

2548
02:38:17,240 --> 02:38:19,680
Speaker 1: it was the debate like Kenya, can you use the

2549
02:38:19,720 --> 02:38:22,640
Speaker 1: stream access lot for big game hunting? You know that

2550
02:38:22,800 --> 02:38:25,080
Speaker 1: those sorts of things where you know we're I was listening.

2551
02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:26,720
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. I mean, I got

2552
02:38:26,800 --> 02:38:29,320
Speaker 1: a bird dogged it all down, but it was hard.

2553
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:31,840
Speaker 1: It's interest. Can I hit you with one? It came

2554
02:38:31,920 --> 02:38:34,240
Speaker 1: up the other day. If it's licensing, I'm not gonna know. No. No,

2555
02:38:34,560 --> 02:38:37,119
Speaker 1: check this out. Me and my kid on Saturday, we're

2556
02:38:37,160 --> 02:38:40,800
Speaker 1: out in our in our jet boat, messing around trying

2557
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:42,960
Speaker 1: to get it dialed in. And we pull up on

2558
02:38:43,040 --> 02:38:47,840
Speaker 1: this island and I find find a nice bot. The

2559
02:38:47,920 --> 02:38:50,240
Speaker 1: backside of him been eating out by Kyles. He's just

2560
02:38:50,280 --> 02:38:53,440
Speaker 1: floating in the river, not like a not like a skull,

2561
02:38:54,520 --> 02:38:59,280
Speaker 1: like full on fresh dead, but cloudy eye has clearly

2562
02:38:59,320 --> 02:39:02,960
Speaker 1: been landing the river long time. He was piste that

2563
02:39:03,040 --> 02:39:05,080
Speaker 1: I didn't ask the head off it and let him

2564
02:39:05,120 --> 02:39:07,960
Speaker 1: bring it home. But I was like, I don't know

2565
02:39:08,080 --> 02:39:10,520
Speaker 1: if this counts as like a skull, Like I don't

2566
02:39:10,520 --> 02:39:12,200
Speaker 1: know if this is like a dead head. And it's

2567
02:39:12,280 --> 02:39:14,280
Speaker 1: hunting season, and I feel like we'd have a lot

2568
02:39:14,320 --> 02:39:18,199
Speaker 1: of explaining to do to have a furred, severed head

2569
02:39:18,920 --> 02:39:21,320
Speaker 1: of Ben dead for a few days but not terribly

2570
02:39:21,440 --> 02:39:25,680
Speaker 1: long buck in our boat. So I made him leave it,

2571
02:39:27,560 --> 02:39:29,200
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, just look it up. And I'm like,

2572
02:39:29,480 --> 02:39:30,960
Speaker 1: there's some things that are easy to look up, and

2573
02:39:31,000 --> 02:39:34,120
Speaker 1: there's some things that are tricky too. Do you have

2574
02:39:34,120 --> 02:39:36,760
Speaker 1: any feedback on that? What I would I would suggest

2575
02:39:36,959 --> 02:39:40,119
Speaker 1: is if you wanted the antlers or wanted the head,

2576
02:39:40,720 --> 02:39:42,360
Speaker 1: is to call the game ward and tell him what

2577
02:39:42,480 --> 02:39:45,560
Speaker 1: you found. That's what I was telling Ti Tipmott. Tell

2578
02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:47,920
Speaker 1: him what you found. And then when the game war

2579
02:39:48,000 --> 02:39:49,920
Speaker 1: in college, you say, you know, hey, this is what

2580
02:39:50,000 --> 02:39:52,200
Speaker 1: I found. This where it is, and you know, when

2581
02:39:52,240 --> 02:39:55,640
Speaker 1: you're done looking into it cannot is it okay? If

2582
02:39:55,640 --> 02:39:58,920
Speaker 1: I get the antlers, I think, you know, they sort

2583
02:39:58,959 --> 02:40:00,720
Speaker 1: all that out. You know what I did do? I

2584
02:40:00,720 --> 02:40:03,880
Speaker 1: don't know, Maybe it's illegal. I drug it out of

2585
02:40:04,000 --> 02:40:05,720
Speaker 1: the water and pulled it up on a little island

2586
02:40:05,760 --> 02:40:09,600
Speaker 1: gravel bar so it didn't float away. Well, we were

2587
02:40:09,640 --> 02:40:11,400
Speaker 1: just having to debate, and it was better to have

2588
02:40:11,560 --> 02:40:14,080
Speaker 1: the debate with it laying there than have it floating by. Yeah,

2589
02:40:14,440 --> 02:40:16,360
Speaker 1: well you could you could still do you can still

2590
02:40:16,400 --> 02:40:19,280
Speaker 1: do it. We you could. You could let the game war, No,

2591
02:40:19,480 --> 02:40:21,720
Speaker 1: and he go. Next time you're on the gravel bar,

2592
02:40:21,840 --> 02:40:24,280
Speaker 1: you can you know, ask him if it be okay,

2593
02:40:24,360 --> 02:40:26,280
Speaker 1: just to grab him because at some point I don't

2594
02:40:26,280 --> 02:40:29,680
Speaker 1: know that what. I don't think there's anything specific in No,

2595
02:40:30,040 --> 02:40:31,560
Speaker 1: just be like a matter of like what kind of

2596
02:40:31,640 --> 02:40:34,320
Speaker 1: conversations do you want to invite? Like why is there

2597
02:40:34,360 --> 02:40:36,240
Speaker 1: a dead buck's head in your truck? Like wow, what

2598
02:40:36,360 --> 02:40:39,360
Speaker 1: happened was right? I just didn't feel like right, I

2599
02:40:39,560 --> 02:40:42,600
Speaker 1: feel like needing to have that chat. I found I

2600
02:40:42,680 --> 02:40:44,880
Speaker 1: found a buck on a gravel bar one time with

2601
02:40:45,000 --> 02:40:48,760
Speaker 1: its horns dead horns cut off call the game war

2602
02:40:48,840 --> 02:40:51,320
Speaker 1: and told him where it was. But I call him

2603
02:40:51,400 --> 02:40:53,160
Speaker 1: right from where I where I was standing. And then

2604
02:40:53,160 --> 02:40:56,480
Speaker 1: I kept hunting, and I hunted up to another gravel bar,

2605
02:40:56,879 --> 02:41:00,640
Speaker 1: and on that gravel bar, I found a saw all

2606
02:41:00,760 --> 02:41:04,240
Speaker 1: chewed up, you know, and it was open still had

2607
02:41:04,320 --> 02:41:06,280
Speaker 1: like you know, bone stuff and flesh on it. And

2608
02:41:06,360 --> 02:41:07,879
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about it's picked up and put

2609
02:41:07,879 --> 02:41:10,720
Speaker 1: in my pocket and kept going because but the handles

2610
02:41:10,760 --> 02:41:12,480
Speaker 1: all chewed up on it. And I realized when I

2611
02:41:12,520 --> 02:41:15,600
Speaker 1: got home that had to have been the saw that

2612
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:19,680
Speaker 1: was used in the crime. Probably some like fox or

2613
02:41:19,720 --> 02:41:22,080
Speaker 1: coyote had grabbed the so on, chewed on it a

2614
02:41:22,120 --> 02:41:23,920
Speaker 1: little bit, and then left it on the next grab

2615
02:41:24,040 --> 02:41:27,080
Speaker 1: a bar up. That's great, crazy, I still use this

2616
02:41:27,200 --> 02:41:32,680
Speaker 1: to got it Phil, You got any questions? Uh? No.

2617
02:41:32,920 --> 02:41:35,080
Speaker 1: I do want to say though, that I was part

2618
02:41:35,120 --> 02:41:37,400
Speaker 1: of the Party coalition on the Madison this summer, and

2619
02:41:37,520 --> 02:41:42,040
Speaker 1: I will come to the next public uh public comment session.

2620
02:41:42,040 --> 02:41:45,720
Speaker 1: I'll be a lone rep. He's gonna be shirtless, he's

2621
02:41:45,720 --> 02:41:49,080
Speaker 1: gonna have some cut off blue jeans. He's gonna be

2622
02:41:49,240 --> 02:41:51,920
Speaker 1: pretty drunk. He's gonna be sunburned, and he's gonna give you,

2623
02:41:51,959 --> 02:41:54,120
Speaker 1: guys a year full about telling him where he can't

2624
02:41:54,200 --> 02:42:00,880
Speaker 1: can't ride, I can't wait? Can you bring mango? Oh?

2625
02:42:01,280 --> 02:42:04,119
Speaker 1: She would love it? Yes, all right, thanks guys,