1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Music Saved Me. I'm Len Hoffman and welcome to the 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Music Save Me Podcast. Now today today's guest is one 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: of the most compelling artists you may have never seen, 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: and that's entirely by design. He goes by red leather, 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: no last name, no face, no ego in the way, 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: just the music, the stories, and three hundred million streams 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: worth of proof that honesty is the most powerful force 8 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: in songwriting. It has to be. His journey took him 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: from singing on the streets of Hollywood Boulevard, through a 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: period of addiction, chaos, and a night in downtown Los 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: Angeles that nearly ended everything, to four years of sobriety 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: and a global audience of millions who find themselves in 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: every word he writes. His debut album, Reno, introduced the 14 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: world to his sound. His new album, Tahoe goes even 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: deeper into what happens after the crash, when clarity arrives 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: but the past still follows you. This is a conversation 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: about survival, identity, Music is medicine, and what it means 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: to be saved by a song, by a friend, and 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: by showing up for yourself one day at a time. 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to music saved me. Coming up next, Don't Go Anywhere. 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: Red Leather Music saved me. Now the name Red Leather, 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: the anonymity as a very artistic statement read welcome to 23 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: music saved me. And could you it's so great to 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: have you here. Could you take us back to the 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: decision to protect your identity? You know, was that a 26 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: protective instinct or creative one or maybe even both? 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: You know, I think I would say it was mostly 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: a creative one at first. So, you know, I spent 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: a lot of time busking on Hollywood Boulevard in LA 30 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: and I would get a lot more attention when I 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: wore the hat than when I didn't wear the hat, 32 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: and you know, it just kind of was like, well, 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: maybe this is the better way to do this. And 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: so I had been writing, you know, quite quite a 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: bit of music, and it kind of developed into a 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: thing where the anonymity ended up being like the best 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: the best case scenario for me because so much of 38 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: my music, and especially like the the you know, the 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: first songs on Reno were so deeply personal and I 40 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: was just talking so much about you know, my addiction 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: and all the terrible things that came with it. It 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: was it kind of acted as like a barrier between 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 2: me and whoever would be listening. And so yeah, originally 44 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: it was kind of a creative decision on what was 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: getting more attention on the streets of LA. But then 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: it was like, man, this is a great way to 47 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: be able to tell my story without being judged. 48 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: It's incredible and it doesn't come along very often in 49 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: the music world. And I give you a lot of 50 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: credit for sticking with it throughout everything. And busking, first 51 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: of all, is not an easy job. What was that 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: period sort of like for your life and what were 53 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: you searching for when you were down there in the 54 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: streets performing for people? 55 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: Totally? Well, I came to LA kind of pursuing music 56 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: and and and hoping that there was something that I 57 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: could do. You know, new music has always been my dream. 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: I've been playing guitar since I was a kid, and 59 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: I was just looking for for anything really, you know, 60 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: any any way to get my foot in the door. Uh, 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: And so that kind of that was kind of where 62 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: where I started. And to be honest, it was it 63 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 2: was a pretty dark period of my life. You know, 64 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: Like I would say this is around like twenty twenty 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: one and you know, this was like the deepest, darkest 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: part of my addiction. It was just pure chaos followed 67 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: by some bursts of creativity and drug using and and 68 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: the hangover and the come down, and it honestly, looking back, like, uh, 69 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: you know, I guess you could say there's like, you know, 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: the be and the madness, but it really was a 71 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: hard time. 72 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: When did you first realize that writing and recording music 73 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: actually helped you survive all of that that you were 74 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: going through? You said you played guitar at a young age. 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: Where did where did you first get introduced to it? 76 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: And and how did you get through it and then 77 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: survive all of that? 78 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: You know, music I'd introduced to me, uh, you know, 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: through through some like extended family, and uh, you know, 80 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: the guitar became a thing and and I don't know, 81 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: I just fell in love with it. It just took 82 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: me somewhere else and it let me like just focus 83 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: for hours, and and then you know, I got kind 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 2: of introduced to a lot of rock music, and and 85 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: I just I think I just wanted to be I 86 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: don't know, I just always imagined myself as a kid, 87 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: like playing a guitar solo on a stage. You know 88 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: that was kind of like like I had I had. 89 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 2: I've always had like a very vivid imagination. I think that. 90 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes when the attics, they'll talk about like 91 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: their first addiction was like imagination, you know, and I 92 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: think that was very true for me. It was just like, 93 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, I was always imagining scenarios in my head, 94 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: and I feel like a lot of my early days 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: I was just somewhere else, you know, imagining something. So 96 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: you know that turned in that turned into songwriting and 97 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: just kind of dealing with the things that I was 98 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 2: going through at the time. But then, unfortunately, kind of 99 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: you know, in those earlier days, I got introduced to 100 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol, and you know, those became like a 101 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: focus for just so many years. You know, like, just yeah, 102 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if that answers your question. I don't know, 103 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: how did you want me to get into the addiction stuff, 104 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: But let me know, oh, oh. 105 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I appreciate everything that you're saying, and you're 106 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: definitely answering the questions. I was just curious who some 107 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: of the artists were that you that inspired you growing up. 108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: What they said that you used. 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: To Radiohead was like the biggest one, you know, I had. 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: I had just been I'd been introduced to the band 111 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: and this album Okay Computer, And at first I didn't 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: really understand it. It was like rock music, but it 113 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 2: was like different and weird, and and the more that 114 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: it played, the more I just I don't know, I 115 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: was just like attracted to it. And I Nirvana was 116 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: an early band as well for me, and it was 117 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 2: almost like, you know, especially with Radiohead, like I didn't 118 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: even really understand what the lyrics were saying. You know, 119 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: it wasn't even really as much of a lyrical thing, 120 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: but it was just like a feeling that the music 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: gave me. Yeah, it was just like this this I 122 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: don't know again, like this kind of escape and it's 123 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: kind of like I don't know, I could kind of 124 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: associate each song with like a internal feeling, and you know, 125 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: I would like just I remember just like looking in 126 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: the mirror and listening to music and just swaying back 127 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: and forth, and it just always really moved me. 128 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's very powerful and it's amazing. You know, 129 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: almost everyone can pin point that moment when they realized 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: how powerful music is. Yes, in all of our lives, 131 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: and like you, I loved music too. But the funny 132 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: thing was, just like you, I always felt kind of 133 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: guilty about it growing up and being working in the 134 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: music world later that it was never about the lyrics 135 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: for me when I was young. It was about the 136 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: feeling that the music gave me. The melodies, the chords, 137 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 1: the progression, all of it. Yeah, totally, and the chorus. 138 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: So so that says a lot. I guess that's one 139 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: thing we have in comfort. So I want to talk 140 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: about Last Call because the story behind that song is extraordinary. 141 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you were on top of a building, you 142 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: had one percent battery left on your phone. 143 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: Yep. 144 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: I can you walk us through that night and what 145 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: it means to you and that when your friend picked 146 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: up the phone. 147 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: Totally, So you know, I'll give it a quick you know, 148 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: kind of lead up to that. But the drinking and 149 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: spoken weed that was an era, and then eventually that 150 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: turned into her d drugs and kind of experimenting with 151 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: all different types of things, and I kind of landed 152 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: on cocaine as my as my drug of choice, you know. 153 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: It was it was just a several year thing and 154 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: just uh, it's just a vicious cycle, right, and I 155 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: would you know, I'll tell people I would, Uh, I 156 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: would use drugs when I was when I was happy. 157 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: I would use drugs when I was sad, and I 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: would use drugs when I was bored. So it was 159 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: any and all times. You know. It was just like 160 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: no matter what, that that was the the number one 161 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: priority in my life. And at the time, I, you know, 162 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: I had just gotten down to l A and I 163 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: it things were kind of getting worse for me, not better, 164 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: you know, because there was even like more access to 165 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: to drugs in LA for me. And the one thing 166 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: was when I would start using drugs when I was sad, 167 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: it was kind of a bad recipe, right, I would 168 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 2: start drinking and using and you know, and instead of 169 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: the normal effects like I would, I would get really 170 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: sad and I would start to become suicidal. And you know, 171 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: this had happened. Uh, it happened a few times. You know. 172 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: Even after this one night, I still had issues. But 173 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: this night in particular was really really bad. I'd kind 174 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: of ended up at a party. I'd left that party 175 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: and I met up with my with my drug dealer 176 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: in downtown l A. H six fifty South, spurring street, 177 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: and he's like, hey, you know, I'm I'm going up 178 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: to this party right now in this building, and like, 179 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 2: you know, you should just come with me. So I 180 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 2: go up there, and uh, you know, he did our 181 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: deal and and I'm kind of drinking and and and 182 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: uh and using and I just look around in this 183 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: apartment and I just I knew nobody, you know, I 184 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: just I just felt so utterly alone, like in that 185 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 2: time of my life. I just I really had no one. 186 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: I just it was me and my my dealers and 187 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: you know, maybe a couple of people I would use with. 188 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: But I don't know how to describe like how alone 189 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: I felt, you know, in that time period of my 190 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 2: in my life. And it was one of those things 191 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: where I, I don't know, I could almost just like 192 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: feel as darkness coming on. When I would when I 193 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: would be in already a depressed place and then start 194 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: using the drugs, it was like a reverse effect. I 195 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: would go deeper and deeper and deeper. And I was 196 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: in that apartment and you know, I started looking, I'm like, man, 197 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 2: I don't know anyone here. And I just was like, 198 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, something drew me. I just left. I 199 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: went out the front door, and then I found the 200 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: stairs in the apartment building and go off a flight 201 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: of stairs. I did a line of cocaine. I'd go 202 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 2: up another flight stairs to another line of cocaine, and 203 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: just kept going up, up, up, and then I'm at 204 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 2: the top, and then I'm on top of the building 205 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: and there's there's the ledge and here's the roof, and 206 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: I don't know, I just I kind of felt like 207 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: this was like the this was like the moment that 208 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 2: all of the years of drug abuse and depression and 209 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 2: anxiety and just not making it and not making anything 210 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: in my life just built up and I was ready. 211 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: I don't know, I just I think I just had enough, 212 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: and I thought I just don't want to do this anymore. 213 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: And I just definitely didn't want to be addicted anymore, 214 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: didn't want to be miserable. So I'm there contemplating this 215 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 2: jump and I look at my phone and I shit, 216 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: you not, it was one percent on the phone. I 217 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 2: have one percent on this, you know, crappy iPhone, you know. 218 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, it's kind of like an 219 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: now or never, you know, if there's if there's any 220 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: last things I want to say or do or this 221 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 2: was it almost felt like this was the last opportunity 222 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: I had to maybe say goodbye to somebody or I 223 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: don't know. And then and I looked at my phone 224 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: and I thought, man, who would even pick up my 225 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 2: call right now? You know, I was at a place 226 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 2: in my life where I really felt like I had 227 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: no one. You know, I'm looking at this phone and 228 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: I think of one friend. And it was a great 229 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 2: friend of mine that you know, I make music with. 230 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: And I'm like, who would even be awake, you know, 231 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: because it's I don't know, like one two in the 232 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: morning something like that. And I called the number and 233 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: my friend picks up, and I kind of just break down. 234 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: You know. It was like I didn't I didn't really 235 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: expect anyone to pick up, you know. So I kind 236 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 2: of explained to him, you know, I'm I'm up here. 237 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 2: I'm I told him where I'm at, and I tell 238 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: him what I'm doing, and and he's he says, you know, 239 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: don't move, you know, he goes, don't don't fucking move, 240 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: just stay exactly where you are and I'm gonna come 241 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: get you. So he drives downtown from you know, Hollywood, 242 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: and and I'm still up there right. You know, I'm 243 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: still I don't know, kind of frozen and kind of 244 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 2: just I don't know, disbelief and figuring out what like 245 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 2: what I'm going to do next. And and then you know, 246 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: twenty minutes later, he's calling me again. You know, somehow 247 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: this bad, you know, the crabby I phone shout out 248 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: to that phone, because it did not die. It did 249 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: not want to die. 250 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: The Apple gods were smiling down. 251 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: I didn't want to die either, I guess. So he 252 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: calls me again and he's like, I'm looking for you 253 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: on the streets. Where are you know, he'd like got 254 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: there was a cop nearby. He had a cop a 255 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: car looking for me down there. And I said, okay, 256 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 2: fuck it, I'm coming down. So I go down, you know, 257 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 2: I go, I go down all the way to the 258 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: front of the building and he's there, and you know, 259 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 2: and he's he's he's literally in the streets like looking 260 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: for me, you know, like his car is like parked somewhere. 261 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 2: He's just running looking for me, and I just I 262 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: don't know, I just felt like just tremendous emotion come 263 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: over me. 264 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: And it was just like somebody cared. 265 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was so just like grateful, but 266 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 2: then also weirdly kind of felt guilty that I had 267 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 2: made this person, you know, come out. And I'm just 268 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: replaying it all in my head right now. It's it's 269 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 2: it's kind of gnarly, but I you know, I remember 270 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: just like hugging him and crying and and we drove. 271 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: He drove me back to where I was staying, and 272 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: I just remember crying and letting him know, like, you know, 273 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: where where I where I'd been at my life, and 274 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: just how grateful I was that he had he had 275 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: come to pick me up. And yeah, you know, he 276 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: dropped me off promise. He told me to promise to 277 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: to find help. No, I didn't do that for for 278 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: quite a while longer, but yeah, you know, that was 279 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: that was the night. 280 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: And just thinking about it, it sounds like it's hard for 281 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: you to even talk about even today. I'm guessing that's 282 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: why it's convenient to be able to put it into song. 283 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: Yes, of course, No, I mean totally. You know, I 284 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: think it's funny like when I'm on tour right now 285 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: and you know, I sing it up. I sing it 286 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: every night, and it's like the first song and I 287 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: said and yeah, I kind of it's funny because the 288 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: music around is kind of happy, you know. But yeah, 289 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: you know, I think when I'm I think when I'm 290 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: singing it, I'm I'm giving it away, you know, I'm 291 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: giving it away to other people. I'm passing the story 292 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: along to whoever might need it in the crowd that night. 293 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: But you know, when I'm talking to you in the 294 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: interview about it, I'm like, Damn, I'm really like, this 295 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: is for me, you know what I mean? This is like, oh, 296 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: I'm just like reliving. 297 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: It and reliving it. Yeah, So it's a it's really 298 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: It sounds to me though, that it's important for you, 299 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: whether it's through song or even talking to me about it, 300 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: that you care enough about what's going on with your 301 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: life that you want to share to help others. Totally, 302 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: Why is that so important to you? 303 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I think a few a few reasons. 304 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: I think when I was still in an addict, you know, 305 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: I was a very selfish person. I I it's the 306 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: kind of disease that you know, it's like the only 307 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: thing you care about is yourself and getting what you 308 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: want and getting to high. And you know, I was 309 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: what I finally did get sober in the beginning of 310 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. I had a lot of help, you know, 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: various you know, communities and programs, and I just dived 312 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: right into it, you know, and I had so much 313 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 2: help from strangers. And like I said at the time, 314 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: I didn't have anybody, you know, I just a couple 315 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: of people that I was making music with, you know, 316 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: but shit, I mean I called them out enough, you know, 317 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: like they're picking me up from hotels on Sunset Boulevard, 318 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: you know, like it was just like how much could 319 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: I you know, I couldn't. They weren't going to help 320 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: me get sober. They could tell me they gets sober, 321 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: but they can't help me gets over. So what I 322 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: ended up doing in La there's such a great recovery community, 323 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 2: and I was able to I was I got help 324 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: from so many also recovering and recovered addicts and alcoholics. 325 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: Seeing that and being part of, you know, those different 326 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: recovery programs just made me realize that the way forward 327 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: is really to do that for someone else. And you know, 328 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: it's like most of those people that helped me get 329 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: sober never even knew that I was a musician or 330 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: that what I did, like, you don't even they don't 331 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 2: even know that they've they snell and didn't just save 332 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 2: my life, but like helped propel me into this dream 333 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: of music. So the first thing is just kind of 334 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: I think, paying it forward from the help that I received. 335 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: And the second thing is just the fans, you know. 336 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: I remember early on I had shared my sobriety on TikTok. 337 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: I was ninety days sober, which looking back is like 338 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: such a fragile, vulnerable time. I don't even know how 339 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 2: I had the courage to do that. I don't know, 340 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: I was just on one. It was like some real 341 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: God's timing stuff, you know. I like, but I remember 342 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: like just like like my little ninety day chip. I 343 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 2: was like, hey, guys, just want to let you know 344 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: I'm ninety days sober, and I just it was just 345 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: an unbelievable amount of comments. It was like all these 346 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: people cheering me on, being like, thank you for sharing. 347 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: And then as it it only got more serious the 348 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: more that I would share and the more that I 349 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: would release, I finally release my music. It was like 350 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: this pouring out of not only support but gratitude for 351 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: sharing and for the music and sharing their stories. And 352 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: then it got even crazier when I would start doing shows. 353 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 2: You know. I remember my first show in la at 354 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: this place called the Shed, and it was like afterwards 355 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 2: I did like just you know, just doing like a 356 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: little meet and greet, and I just remember like people 357 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 2: coming up to me and telling me that my music 358 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: had saved their life. And I was just like, whoh, 359 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: you know, like that's that's never why I made the music, 360 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: and I made it to get through the to make 361 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 2: sense of all the awful things that you know, I 362 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: dubbed it myself. But it was just like this, I 363 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 2: don't know, like a epiphany when I started hearing the 364 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: people that were listening and how much it was helping them. 365 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: I was just like, man, this is this is not 366 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: this is not just about me anymore, and it's just 367 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: been this beautiful thing that it's kind of developed into 368 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: a community. 369 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite remarkable what you've been able to do 370 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: and turn around. And by the way, I believe it's 371 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: you're approaching your five year mark now. 372 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: So I'm you know, I'm a little closer to four 373 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 2: than five. I just shiit four years on January sixth 374 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: of this year. 375 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: Well, congratulations. That's a huge milestone. And you know, I'm 376 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: sure you're learning a lot about this, more than you 377 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: ever thought you would know. But all good things and 378 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: momentum moving forward with what you're doing. It's obvious that 379 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing because it's getting you through, 380 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: and but it's also you're taking all these other people 381 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: through with you. And interestingly enough, you were talking about 382 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: how initially you were all about yourself and how amazing 383 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: is it when you turn it all around and you 384 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: give of yourself to everyone what comes back to you. 385 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: It's like it's there. 386 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: No, absolutely, absolutely, I think I started to just feel like, 387 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: you know, the most fulfilled just with that. You know, 388 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 2: it's like I said, like I'm on stage and I'm singing, 389 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 2: I'm just like I said, I'm just giving it away, 390 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, I'm just like, how can I Whoever needs this, 391 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 2: this is for them. You know. 392 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved 393 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: Me Podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast. 394 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: What has sobriety changed in terms of what you're able 395 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: to write and what you're able to feel sort of 396 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: when you are performing it. 397 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: So the first thing is, I never would even be 398 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 2: able to perform it if I wasn't sober, you know. 399 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, it gave me life, you know, 400 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: and I think you can't have music without life, so 401 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: that's the first thing. But you know it's gonna give you, 402 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: like some more detail in there. The Reno album, which 403 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: was my first album, I wrote it pretty much completely 404 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: inactive addiction, you know, and just to give you a 405 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: little some some behind the scenes. So basically that first 406 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: album I was writing, I would be you know, in 407 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 2: la and just like just deep dark and into into 408 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 2: my own world. And like I said, it would be 409 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 2: like my producers would it would kind of hit like 410 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: a it would hit like a bottom or a rock, 411 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: but you know, it would just be these bad moments. 412 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: And I remember one time I was in it was 413 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: in a boulevard or a motel on Sunset Boulevard, and 414 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: again my producers like had to come pick me up 415 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: and you know, take me back to like it was 416 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: just it was just all bad. But then it would 417 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 2: be like a week later we would go to an 418 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 2: airbnb in Joshua Tree would we wrote most of that 419 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: album and Joshua Tree a little bit up in Lake Tahoe, 420 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 2: and Big Bear, but we would just get an airbnb 421 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: and then I would have like this week of being 422 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote clean, you know, I wasn't using 423 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: any hard drugs, and then I would it was almost 424 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: like I was going through this terrible side of addiction. 425 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: But then there would be these small pockets of like 426 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: a week or two weeks where I would I would write, 427 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: and I would sit down and I would tell my 428 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 2: story and get it all out, and then it would 429 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: be like get back to La boom, right back in 430 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: the cycle. Yeah, that was how my first album kind 431 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: of came to be. But the second one, now Tahoe, 432 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 2: was written pretty much completely in sobriety, So it was 433 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: a different writing process. You know, wasn't I wasn't even 434 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: drinking beers or smoking weed or anything. And I think 435 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: I was a little nervous at first because drugs and 436 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 2: alcohol were such a big part of my life. It 437 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 2: was like a safety net almost. Yeah, totally totally. So 438 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: it was like, of course, that's what I'm gonna be 439 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: writing with and about and all that. But I think 440 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: I kind of distinctly remember a couple moments when I 441 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 2: was in these little writing camps, when I realized I 442 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: wrote something I loved and I wasn't high and I 443 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 2: wasn't drunk, and I was like, oh man, like I 444 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: can I can actually do this, And you know, it 445 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: was actually me, it wasn't anything else. So the second album, 446 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 2: I think it's a lot. It's a little bit more 447 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: clear headed, it's a little bit more mature, and it's 448 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 2: a little bit more introspective. But yeah, you know, I'm 449 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: I'm I'm grateful for for all of it. 450 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: Read. Let me ask you what it was like for 451 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: both Reno once you put that out? What was it 452 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: like watching that song and that project connect with millions 453 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: of people that you had no idea, They had no 454 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: idea who you were even, but they connected with it 455 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: so much. And then the next part of that is 456 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 1: the same for Tahoe now where you're in a different 457 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: place in your life. What was that like just touching 458 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,479 Speaker 1: all of those people in two completely different ways and 459 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: being anonymous throughout all of it totally? 460 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I remember it first just being so overwhelming, 461 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 2: Like I remember, you know, even before that, you know, 462 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: before the album was out, I was just putting music 463 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: up on TikTok and you know, the songs started to 464 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 2: come out, and I remember how overwhelming it was just 465 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: to be like, you know, with social media, like so 466 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 2: many people can like comment on what you're doing, and 467 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: like that's not like what happens in real life. You know. 468 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: In real life, you just do things and you interact 469 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: with people like one at a time, you know, or 470 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: even like even out of a concert of one hundred people, 471 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: like maybe a couple of people shout something, but it's 472 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: not like hundreds of thousands of people. It was like 473 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: I was putting my music out in and there's like 474 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 2: thousands of comments, and like there would be crazy there, 475 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: just like mostly positive, but then there would also be 476 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 2: there was a lot of negative stuff. It would be 477 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: like people to people telling me, like yo, I hope 478 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: you relapse and die, like crazy stuff. Like you know, yeah, 479 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 2: like social media is, it's a it's a place where 480 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: I think people feel empowered to be very negative. I 481 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: would just yeah, I remember like being very overwhelmed by 482 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: the love and the hate and being like fuck, like 483 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 2: I don't know how to deal with this. I think 484 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: I kind of instead of, you know, thankfully, instead of 485 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 2: drugs and alcohol, I kind of just you know, dove 486 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: into the music and that's kind of I think what 487 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: was ended up being my escape from all that. But 488 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 2: I think the Reno album came out and it was 489 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: kind of like my first offering to the world, and 490 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: I felt the Taha album was much different. I feel 491 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: like the Tahoe album came out to when I was 492 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: more mature, and I feel like when the fans it 493 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 2: was just more complete. You know. The Reno was the 494 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: album itself. The writing was chaotic, the release was more chaotic. 495 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: It was more you know, just throwing stuff at the wall. 496 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: And this time for Tahoe, it was like I was 497 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 2: able to have a lot more of a plan and 498 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 2: I was able to have a lot more peace in 499 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 2: my life. H to release it. But honestly, the being 500 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: anonymous part is is one of the best parts. You know. 501 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: I think it's allowed me to be so honest in 502 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: my music. You know, it's a I don't feel like 503 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: any fear to get judged by, you know, telling these 504 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: personal stories, and yeah, it kind of separates the artists 505 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 2: from the art a little bit too, you know, where 506 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 2: it's like there is a character of red leather, but 507 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 2: it's like not even it's not a face, it's not 508 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: it's not really a person, it's you know, it's I 509 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 2: feel like people can just also just focus on the art. 510 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, even the negative comments, it's 511 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: sort of like you can sort of let it fly 512 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: because they don't even know who they're commenting to. 513 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, you know, that definitely made it easier. Yeah, 514 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: they couldn't like say something even more mean, Yeah. 515 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: Like the exactly exactly, let's talk about losing my religion. 516 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: By the way, congratulations with all of that. I mean, 517 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: and you're still here and thriving after all of that, 518 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: and it's just amazing and thank you for sharing all 519 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: of that. What's the story behind losing my religion? 520 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: I would say Losing my Religion is probably my favorite 521 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: song on the Tahoe album. It's kind of a continuation 522 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: of the song burn in Hell from the Reno album, 523 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 2: which is also a very spiritual, very spiritual song. And 524 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: I think Losing my Religion really represents that moment of 525 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: just like when when you snap, when you're just snapping, 526 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: you know, Like it's like I struggled with with with 527 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 2: faith a lot, all all the mental battles of of 528 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: I did in addiction. After addiction, all of that, and 529 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 2: I think losing my religion is all about like the 530 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 2: first there's it's kind of a two part song. The 531 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: first part song is kind of like talking about you know, 532 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 2: I was born as someone who has shown, you know, 533 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: faith and Christianity and say, hey, you know, like believe 534 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 2: in something and there's a God and all this stuff. 535 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 2: And then you start living your life and you're like, well, why, why, 536 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: why is this happening over there? And why are these 537 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: bad things happening to me? And how can I you know, 538 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: I'm like when I go to church or I try 539 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: to repent from my sins, like not thing's happening, you know, 540 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: and and and feeling like and that is larrea. I said, 541 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 2: if there's a God, then I'll be damned. You know. 542 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: It's like you weren't seeing it, no feeling it, you know. 543 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: And yet at the same time, I think it started 544 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: to re enter my life towards especially towards the end 545 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 2: of my addiction. I started praying and and writing a 546 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: lot and asking God to help me. I just was 547 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: so desperate, and I think I got to a place 548 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 2: where I was desperate enough to to reach out to 549 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: faith again that I had a couple, you know, very 550 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: very spiritual experiences that made me believe in a power 551 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 2: greater than myself. You know, I could, I could tell 552 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 2: you about some of those experiences if you like. 553 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: Sure, whatever you would like to share, I mean anything 554 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: that The way I look at it is we're here 555 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: doing service for others, and I'm so grateful that that 556 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: you're willing to do that. So whatever you want to 557 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: share is beautiful thing. 558 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: Okay, awesome that that song is kind of synonymous with 559 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: the song Divine Intervention, right, So losing my religion is 560 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: losing your mind. You know, it's like it's like there 561 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 2: is no God. Fuck this, fuck everything, I'm done. You know, 562 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 2: there's nothing, nothing matters, you know, Like Divine an Intervention 563 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: tells the story of one of those spiritual experiences I had, 564 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: and it happened when I was in Las Vegas. So 565 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: I had one final relapse before I got sober, and 566 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: that was in January of twenty twenty two. I had 567 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 2: in December of twenty twenty one, I had a heart 568 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 2: attack and got taken away by the ambulance and it 569 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: was freaking awful, and I said, I'm never gonna use 570 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: drugs again. 571 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 3: I was. 572 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: I was like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Of course, 573 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: that's not how addiction works, you know, And so I 574 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: wasn't done. Even though I was having health problems and 575 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: all this stuff. I had one final relapse. I go 576 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 2: to I go to Las Vegas. And that was the 577 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: thing that I would do a lot, you know. It 578 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: would be like from from La to Vegas and get 579 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: a cheap hotel room and do have a little drug 580 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: hustle so I could pay for my trip. And I 581 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 2: was there and it was the last, the last time, 582 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 2: and I met a stranger on the casino floor and 583 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 2: we started hanging out and talking and you know, we 584 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: were back up in my room and and I was 585 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: drinking and using and I was like, hey, I make music, 586 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 2: you know. He's like, well, play me some of your music. 587 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: So I play him. I play in one of my 588 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: songs and he goes play that again, and I played 589 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 2: it again. He says, play it again. And I probably 590 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: played a song ten or fifteen times for him, and 591 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 2: it was just like he was just listening and listening 592 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: and listening and listening. And then after the last time 593 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 2: I played it, he just looks up at me and 594 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: he looks straight into my soul and he says, you 595 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: don't have to live like this anymore. And I I 596 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 2: remember breaking down and hugging him, and that's all I 597 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: remember from that night. It just wow. And the next thing, 598 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: I know, the next day, iode And that was the 599 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: last time I ever I ever used drugs and alcohol. 600 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: That was That was truly a miracle moment. 601 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: I truly believe that that that that man was an angel. 602 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: You know, I just absolutely are you kidding me? But 603 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: just the fact that you were able to recognize and 604 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: have an epiphany. I always think that life is, you know, 605 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: ninety percent how you deal with the ten percent of 606 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: the things that happened to you, because like shit happens 607 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: to you, it's just how you deal with it, truly, 608 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: and for you to recognize what happened, I mean, that's 609 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: the first opportunity to go in a different direction. 610 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: And totally I mean I I you know, yeah, you know, 611 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: I think in a way, it was God's way of saying, 612 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: all right, no more. You know. I feel like I 613 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 2: feel like I was forced to stop, you know, because actually, 614 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 2: you know, I like I think the ninety percent was 615 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: what I had to do after that day, you know, 616 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 2: which was has been years of work in recovery. But 617 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: the actual stop felt like that divine intervention, the angel 618 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 2: coming and then boom. 619 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, you hit that brick wall hard and it just 620 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: and it. It's a friend of mine always used to 621 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: say this sometimes when you're going through life and shit's happening, 622 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: and then like a piano falls on your head, and 623 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: you're supposed to recognize when the piano falls on your 624 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: head that like that's a sign you need to take 625 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: stock in your life and figure out a different direction, 626 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: because this one isn't going in the right direction thousand percent. 627 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: I remember the next day, you know, the ode happens. 628 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: It's fucking miserable. In the next day, I'm so scared. 629 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: I'm just unbelievably just terrified. And and but I just 630 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: and but there was like this one part of me 631 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: that was just like this relief of like it's over, 632 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 2: you know. I was just like if I use drugs 633 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 2: and alcohol again, I'm I'm probably gonna die. You know. 634 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: It was just like it was just like these two 635 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 2: back to back medical incidents, and I was just like scared, 636 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: but also like relieved because I had also met some people. 637 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 2: You know in La because I've been trying to get 638 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: sober for a while. I mean, but I knew I 639 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: know who to I knew who to call, and so 640 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: I I just put I started putting the time in 641 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 2: and and yeah, it was just like an entire entire 642 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: year of just basically focusing on on recovery. And and 643 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 2: then also, uh, at that same time as when I 644 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: started like just posting on TikTok, that was like my 645 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: outlet to not think about, you know, drugs and alcohol. 646 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 2: I was just okay, I'm just gonna make another cover 647 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 2: and just singing to the camera and just put it. 648 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 2: I was uploading like five videos a day. 649 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: Wow. Well, I mean that explains the three million followers, 650 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: the one and a half million tiktoks sold out shows 651 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: in the United States Europe. Your fans found you almost 652 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: entirely through word of mouth. This doesn't happen in real life. 653 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: What do you think that that your fans are hearing 654 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: in the music that makes them need to not only 655 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: listen to it but also share it. Your stuff is 656 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: just shared. I mean, it's incredible music. You're you're an 657 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: incredible performer, musician, everything, and plus you leave it all 658 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: out there, What is it? What do you think it is? 659 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 2: Maybe just hearing about somebody, you know, just being honest 660 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 2: about the dark parts of life. It's it's and and 661 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 2: and having a willingness to fight it. 662 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: It's just. 663 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 2: Every every every piece of music has a different purpose, 664 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 2: you know. And some of it's to make you dance, 665 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: and some of it's to make you happy. But I 666 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 2: think when I I started writing these songs, it was 667 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: sins is a great example, right. I remember being like, 668 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even show this song to 669 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: my mom, you know, I can't even show I can't 670 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: show this song to anyone. But I know I was 671 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 2: just so not embarrassed by it. But just like I 672 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 2: couldn't believe that I had been so freaking honest about 673 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 2: this just ugly thing. You know, it's an ugly part 674 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 2: of life. It's not something that is not dinner table talk. 675 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 2: It's not it's not easy listening, you know. And And 676 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 2: I think that because it was so raw, I think 677 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 2: that that's I think that that's what the fans are 678 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: getting out of it. At least that's what they tell me. 679 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 2: I need them. 680 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: It's authentic and raw, that's for sure. 681 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: I think it's just not leaving anything on the table, 682 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 2: like you know, I was like, I think another thing 683 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 2: that going through all of that really gave me is 684 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 2: just is just a fearlessness, you know where it's like 685 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 2: I just don't feel like nothing worse skin than can 686 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: happen than what I already did to myself, you know. 687 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: And to be excuse my friends, but I don't give 688 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: a fuck of anymore about people's opinions about you know, 689 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 2: anything that's not what's important. 690 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: So I love your motto. 691 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's like what I do, take seriously is 692 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 2: my second chance, you know, and I do and what's 693 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: important and that's to me, it's it's life and you know, 694 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: the people that I love and and the art that 695 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,439 Speaker 2: I love to to create. But you know, I'm I'm 696 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm happy that that that that that 697 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: people are connecting with it. I think what's cool actually 698 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: is that that wasn't the intention. You know, I'm not 699 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 2: I'm not writing a song about being addicted to drugs 700 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: and almost committing suicide to to to have someone say 701 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 2: to relate, you know what I mean, Like I'm not like, oh, 702 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't writing this song, like I just wrote it, 703 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was like, this is 704 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 2: how I'm this is how I made sense of this, 705 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 2: this terrible thing, an app of my life, and I 706 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 2: didn't I didn't know. I had no idea that like 707 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 2: this was going to be the reaction. But I'm very 708 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: grateful for it. 709 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing when you do stuff. And funny enough, 710 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: you were talking earlier about doing things just for yourself, 711 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: but that's really what was the impetus to connect with 712 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: so many people, because I guess it goes back to 713 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: the old adage. You know, when you start talking to people, 714 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: you start learning that you're not the only one that 715 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: feels a certain way, and you had to figure that 716 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: out through through music, which is amazing when someone comes 717 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: up to you after a show and says, this song 718 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: of yours saved my life and they didn't even know 719 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: your real name or who you are, what you look like, nothing, 720 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: just this song that you wrote. What does that exchange 721 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: feel like to you? And how do you deal with it? 722 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: Those exchanges feel incredibly powerful and authentic. You know, I 723 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: think sometimes it's a handstake, sometimes it's a hug. You know. Uh, 724 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 2: what it definitely is is two people seeing each other. 725 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: You know, I'm I'm for the most part, I'm not 726 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: phased by it because I've been through that whatever they're 727 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 2: talking about. I've been through something, you know, some some 728 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 2: kind of similar, you know, So whatever that thing is 729 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 2: that they were going through, it's like I get it, 730 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 2: you know, And so it's it's it feels it feels good. 731 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me too. That again, although this, uh, 732 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: this is an audible podcast right now, so no one 733 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: can see us. But if I could describe, uh to 734 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: those who don't know who Red Leather is, I can't 735 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: see his face at all. He covers it with a 736 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: with a really cool red hat. So this is, i'd 737 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: have to say, been the most interesting interview that I've 738 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: ever done. Wow. But but but in a way, but 739 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: it's it's such an amazing thing because you don't need 740 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: to see someone to connect with someone with their life, 741 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: their story and the things that they've gone through, which 742 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: is really important. And it also you lose all of 743 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: that other stuff that goes along, like we talked about 744 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: with social media and people with opinions and comments. You 745 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: can just be free to do your craft and I 746 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: think to be a lot more helpful not just to 747 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: yourself but to those listening and speaking of that. The 748 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: music save Me question that I like to try to 749 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: end all the shows with is what is the moment 750 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: or the song or the artist where you truly felt 751 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: that music rescued you. 752 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 2: I think for me, the moment was really my first 753 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 2: one hundred days of sobriety where my life did. Sorry, 754 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 2: I'm sorry this is a long answer to a question, 755 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 2: but in the first one hundred days of my sobriety, 756 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 2: my life did such an incredible one eighty it's hard 757 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 2: to even explain. I mean, I was going from a 758 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 2: drug addict about to die to having like one hundred 759 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 2: thousand people follow me and listen to my music within 760 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: a span of like a couple months. And I feel 761 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 2: like music Dick gave me a purpose for myself and 762 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: to help others at a time when I just needed 763 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 2: it the most, and it continues to give me that purpose. 764 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm I'm going to keep making the 765 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 2: art for myself and I'm going to keep performing it 766 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 2: for others. 767 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: That was a lovely answer and it wasn't long. And 768 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: go out and get Tahoe check out Reno. These are 769 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: two incredible albums by an incredible country rock artist. You 770 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: meld both so beautifully and you have a beautiful voice. 771 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, and I wish you so much success Red 772 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,239 Speaker 1: Leather in your future, and I hope that you come 773 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: back and check in with us again in a little while, 774 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: because I suspect you're going to be onto even bigger 775 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: and better things and hold strong. You're doing everything right, 776 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: and I'm so happy to get this moment to talk 777 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: to you in your life and in your career, and 778 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing everything with all of us. 779 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 2: You're welcome, and thank Linn. Thank you so much for 780 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 2: having me great speaking with you, and I'd love to 781 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 2: chat again sometime. 782 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 4: I'm Buzznight and thanks for listening to Lynn Hoffman and 783 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 4: the music. Save Me podcasts produced by Buzznight Media Productions. 784 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 4: Please check out our other shows, Taken a Walk Nashville 785 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,760 Speaker 4: hosted by Sarah Harrelson, Comedy Save Me hosted by Lynn Hoffman, 786 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 4: and Taken a Walk hosted by Yours Truly. All shows 787 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 4: are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and are part of 788 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 4: the iHeart podcast network.