1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace TikTok. You'd have to be 2 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: living in a cave or under a rot not to 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: know about TikTok. My twins are always tiktoking or watching TikTok's. 4 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm sneaking up on them all the time they're on TikTok. 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: But how does the death a young husband and father? 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: And I might add corrections, officer, what does that have 7 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: to do with TikTok? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? I 8 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime story worries. Thank you for 9 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation in series XM 10 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: one eleven. Take a listen to this nine one one call, 11 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: yeah one, where is your emergency? Blood all over pretty, 12 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: I just got a fault kid and John, are you 13 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: the one that got faded? No, I'm no, that was 14 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: Joden victim blood, I got set up really bad and 15 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: I blood all over these all right? So you're twenty 16 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: nine eighty six Stornhill as well? Yes, all right? And 17 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: you want an ambulance uma hard all right? The persons 18 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: are the person that people are doing this to you? 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: Are they still there? They say they came with came 20 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: him on my property with gardens and then when I 21 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: want to fuck him off, they drove away. What happened? 22 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: You were hearing a nine one one call from Zachary Latham, 23 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: age eighteen. Did you notice he said I've got blood 24 00:01:54,560 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: all over me? But is it his blood? Take a 25 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: listen to more of that nine one one call? How 26 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: are you injured? Sir? Um My one plage was luck 27 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: sammy man and I got stockball and killed a lay 28 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: like ten people? And where are you bleeding from? I 29 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: don't know? The flood all over me. I don't even 30 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: over the cut. There's blood all over our garage. Okay, 31 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: black came in and get that guns. You're never gonna 32 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: kill us from nexteam in my garage and attack all 33 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: of ours. There's four people, Okay. I want to want 34 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: a second for the police. Okay, okay, So okay, he's 35 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: saying I've got blood all over me, but clearly he's 36 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: not the one bleeding, But to hear his nine one 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: one call, you'd think he was again. I Nancy Grace 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: is his crime stories. Thanks for being with us here 39 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: at Flox Nation in series xin one eleven. What an 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: all star panel. I've gotten to break it down and 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: put it back together, and boy do we need some 42 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: figuring out on this one. Wendy Patchett with me, California prosecutor, 43 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and host of Live with Doctor 44 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: Wendy at k c b KE Radio, and you can 45 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Renowned psychiatrist 46 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: joining us from Atlanta. Doctor Angela Arnold, she said, Angela Arnold, 47 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: MD dot com. James shell Nutt, twenty seven years Atlanta 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: Metro major case swat now lawyer. He's at shell Nutt 49 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: Law Firm dot com. Doctor Kendall Crowns, the Deputy Medical Examiner, 50 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas. That's Austin, by the way. Never lack 51 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: of business there, but first Chrome online dot com investigative 52 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: reporter Levi Paige Levi, I want you to hear this 53 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: TikTok posted by eighteen year old Latham Zachary Latham listen yeah. 54 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: Video shows eighteen year old Zachary Latham racing through the 55 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: quiet suburban streets in Vineland, New Jersey, and more than 56 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour. When his neighbor, Tiffany Durham 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: asks leads him to slow down, he obnoxiously calls her, Karen, 58 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Karen? That's not my name 59 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: you okay, Karen. That heated exchange on this quiet residential 60 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: street was just one of many, according to a family friend, 61 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: who also says most of the encounters were posted on TikTok. 62 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: He posted on TikTok and that has seven hundred and 63 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: sixty thousand mews. He turns the corner here and the 64 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: Durham families outside down yardwork. It was a beautiful day, 65 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: and he yells out the window, Hey, Karen, we went 66 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: myra on TikTok. Okay, Now you know, I swore off 67 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: cursing when the twins were born. But Jackie, there's no 68 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: other way to put it in. He is just a jackass. 69 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: That's the only thing I can say. Well, I could 70 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: say more, but I'm not going to. You know, first 71 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: of all, Leavi Page, I assume you know what a 72 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: karen is. Yes, a derogatory term for a middle aged 73 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: woman that complains a lot, well, a middle aged woman 74 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: that complains period. And I believe it's based largely in 75 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: women that complain for no reason. Okay, there's names from 76 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: men too, but a Karen is somebody that makes basically 77 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: a baseless argument. Would you agree with that? Yes? No? Yes? 78 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: What about a week go ahead? They're often what they're 79 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: often described as someone that wants to speak to the 80 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: manager at a store or a restaurant for no reason. Yes, right, Okay, 81 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: that's a good example. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor or a 82 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: host of Live with Doctor Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, Now, when 83 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: you call somebody a Karen, it's derogatory, that's an insult. 84 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: But I can tell you this much, I'd be doing 85 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: a whole lot more if some well I called him 86 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: a jackass earlier. But if some bratt was driving one 87 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: hundred mph and I weighborhood and I caught him, Yeah, 88 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: I'd been doing a lot more than complaining. You know, 89 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: that's right. So calling this woman, missus Durham, a Karen 90 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: is just really adding salt, rubbing salt in the wound. 91 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: It's provocative, and that was the purpose of doing it, 92 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: And that's part of the purpose probably of driving as 93 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: fast as he was to begin with. It is drawing 94 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: attention to his bad behavior and then calling her out 95 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: for justifiably being concerned for the safety of the neighborhood 96 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: and you bet that's going to be relevant in terms 97 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: of judging what kind of a person. This is now 98 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: to doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrists joining us out of the 99 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction. If somebody called me a Karen, I can't 100 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: care less. I don't care. I would absolutely call police. 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: And here's the kicker in this case. They did call police, 102 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: but they were told because of COVID there was not 103 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot the courts could do about it. So, 104 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, it's a real insult when this eighteen year 105 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: old calls Miss Durham a Karen because she didn't like 106 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: him driving one hundred mph. Well, the whole situation is 107 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: such a symbol of disrespect, isn't it. Who drives one 108 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: hundred miles an hour through anywhere, through a residential neighborhood, 109 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: and then for her for him to call her such 110 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: a derogatory name a Karen, which incites It incites so 111 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: much inside of people right now. Everything is so inflammatory. 112 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: You know. Actually, I'm rethinking it, and if somebody did 113 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: call me a Karen, I'd want to give him a 114 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: knuckle sandwich no mayo, but I know better than to 115 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: do that. I'm getting hung up on a traffic violation 116 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: that could have turned deadly right there, This Zachary Latham 117 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: driving one hundred mph in a residential neighborhood, very quiet neighborhood, 118 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: by the way, violent New Jersey, and Miss Durham gets angry, 119 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: and so she confronts him about it, and then he 120 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: videos the whole thing and then drives by to explain 121 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: to her the next day that the video quote went viral. 122 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: That means lots and lots and lots of people have 123 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: watched it. Now, once you take a listen, I don't 124 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: want to get hung up on the traffic violation when 125 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: I've got a dead body on my hands. But take 126 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: a listen to more of TikTok video by this bratt, 127 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: Zachary Latham. What are you gonna do, Karen, that's not 128 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: my name? To get name straight ahead? You okay, Karen, 129 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: go ahead, get my tag? Gag Karen. My name is 130 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: not Karen, so name straight, get my tag. It's okay, 131 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: a four five m faure you know. To James Shelnutt 132 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: twenty seven years metroom major case and swatnew lawyer. They 133 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: tried to call police on their neighbors on this rat 134 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: and instead they were told but remember this is doing COVID. 135 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: There's really not a lot that the cops could do 136 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: about it because the courts were closed essentially at the 137 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: time except for emergencies. They were turned away. But can 138 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: you hear the tension brewing? Yeah? Absolutely. You know, this 139 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: is one of those situations that snowballed from a serious 140 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: traffic offense where somebody could have been heard or killed 141 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: into a violent situation. And this kid, this Latham kid, 142 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: was doing nothing but trying to provoke these people. He 143 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: had no respect for anybody there. And I think if 144 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: the nail the head, he's a brat and he needed 145 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: an attitude adjustment. Unfortunately, he didn't get it right. Then 146 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: they tried to call the police, nothing occurred, and I 147 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: think that that caused tensions to boil even more and 148 00:09:47,840 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: continue to make this problem escalating crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 149 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about the death of the corrections officer, a father, 150 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: a husband minding his own business when his bratty neighbor, 151 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: eighteen year old Zachary Latham, torments mister Durham's wife repeatedly, 152 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: over and over. You could hear him revving his engine. 153 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: You don't want that when you have children out playing 154 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: in the street. For this brat eighteen years old going 155 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: on nineteen, driving one hundred miles an hour. And then 156 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: when miss Durham videos it tries to get his tag number, 157 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: he mocks her over and over and over, calling her 158 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: a Karen. It escalates from there and we end up 159 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: with a dead body. Straight out to Leavipage Crime online 160 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, you're just hearing him mocking miss Durham, 161 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: gunning his engine and whining that three cops are there 162 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: because his car is loud. It's not because his car 163 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: is loud. It's because he was driving one hundred miles 164 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: an hour and he was taunting her about going viral. Okay, 165 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: what happens next? So Nancy, we know that he was 166 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: doing one hundred miles per hour because he actually TikTok 167 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: did himself and he has put this family, the Durham family, 168 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: on TikTok many times after this incident. He drove by 169 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: the house revd his engine. When he saw Katherine Durham 170 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: who goes by Tiffany outside, he says, we went viral. 171 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: He also posted on TikTok if this reaches a million views. 172 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to post the address of the Durham's on 173 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: here and you people can drive by His followers can 174 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: drive by their house and rev your engine. Two. So 175 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: there was a lot of taunting on TikTok by Zachary Latham, 176 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: eighteen years old. He even posted a TikTok with a 177 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: gun talking about this family. A lot, a lot of 178 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: aggression with this eighteen year old man. To you, doctor 179 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold, you're the psychiatrist, what's wrong with him? What's 180 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: wrong with this child? But he's not a child number one, 181 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: he's almost nineteen in the National Guard. He has a 182 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: complete it sounds like he has a complete disrespect for 183 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: in disregard for all things legal. But he also seems 184 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: to want a lot of attention. It seems like he's 185 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: craving in an awful lot of attention and that's why 186 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: he's putting these things on TikTok. He wants to be 187 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: widely known by strangers. What is that that desire for 188 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: fame that you'll do anything to be a social media 189 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: star anything. That's what is driving us is his desire 190 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: to be and it's it's not wealth and influence that 191 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: he's looking for. She is he has an overriding desire 192 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: to be widely known by strangers. Okay, and it's a desire, 193 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 1: it's actually a desire nancy for social acceptance. Guys. It 194 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: gets worse and worse, It escalates, as you know, it 195 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: ultimately ends in a dead body. Take a listen to 196 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: our friends at Inside Edition. After the Durham say Latham 197 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: nearly ran over their son, dad, Timmy Durham confronted Latham 198 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: in the driveway. The guy he was about to confront 199 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: line inside the house and retrieved two knife and a 200 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: stung gun. Latham allegedly stabbed fifty two year old Timmy 201 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Durham to death. Then he called nine one one, let's share. 202 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: Are you the one that got bad? I'm no that 203 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: was you. I got up really bad blood. Latham is 204 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: claiming self defense. It's not self defense. If it was 205 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: self defense, he would enter in the house and never 206 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: came back out. And I'm gonna called the police. Latham 207 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: is now charged with aggravated man slaughter. He wanted to 208 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: meet TikTok family. He wanted to be TikTok famous. Did 209 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: he lure this husband and father into his garage? In 210 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: order to stun gum and knife him dead. Take a 211 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: listen to TikTok video of Zachary Latham's knie. I'm calling 212 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: my cops on you. That's good, all right? Yeah, you 213 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: are hearing him record what's happening. It's my understanding, Leavi 214 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: Page that what happened is Latham takes off and swerves 215 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: at a high speed at the Durham's nephew or son, 216 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: swerves out in ti actually knowing that this is the 217 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: Durham's relative. He swerves, comes back in and goes home, 218 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: knowing that that would make the Drham's come over. When 219 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: the Durham's come over, he's waiting in the garage with 220 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: a stun gun and a knife. That's how I understand it. 221 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: What do you know? You're correct? Nancy almost hit their 222 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: son with his vehicle, and that is when this big 223 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: altercation broke out in the driveway of Zachary Latham's home. Well, 224 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: tell me what happened exactly. Okay, So they were fighting, 225 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: they got into a scuffle and Zachary Latham had a 226 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: knife and he pulled out his knife and stabbed fifty 227 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: two year old William Durham and William Durham later died. 228 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no no no, yeah, I mean 229 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: yes and no, yes, that happened. But I need to 230 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: know what happened just before the stabbing, because I've got 231 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: it was determined. Was he claiming self defense? Was it 232 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: self defense? Or did he lure Durham into his garage? 233 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: As prosecutors say, Jackie, let's play that nat sound again. 234 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: This is TikTok. It's our cut six that Latham. He 235 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: swerves at their son. You said it was son. Correct, 236 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: swerves at the Durham's son who's outside. Then he high 237 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: tells it to his home. Then the Durham's come over 238 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: there and confront him about swerving his car. Okay, listen 239 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: to this. This is his TikTok. Do you think this 240 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: is self defense? Listen, I got a knight. I'm calling 241 00:16:50,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: a cops on you. That's good. Hi, yeah, okay, let's send. 242 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: Let's start. We're hearing to you. James shell Nutt, twenty 243 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: seven years metro major, k swat, what are you hearing? 244 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: This guy clearly is not that afraid. He's taking a TikTok, 245 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: threatening to call police on the Dervas when they confront him. 246 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: About swerving. Hey, did I ever tell you the twins 247 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: when they were really little, they love to catch bugs. 248 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: And we had all this bug a cootrama where you'd 249 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: put the bug in this thing so it could this 250 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: little net thing so it could live and fake what 251 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: do you say, magnifying glasses and little digging utensils. And 252 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: we would go over to the Methodist church which is 253 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: near where we live, where we go and look for bugs, okay, 254 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: And we could spend hours looking for bugs. Right now, 255 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting somewhere with this James. One day we were 256 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: looking for bugs and this young guy, I think he 257 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: was about sixteen or seventeen, had this soup up truck, 258 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: and what I mean by that he had put monster 259 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: tires on it, and he came through the church parking 260 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: lot which is full of speed bumps, I mean big 261 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: ones flying through the church parking lot, and he came 262 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: and swerved at us. I threw the twins behind me 263 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: and got in between me and the truck. I'm not 264 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: kidding this guy, Bratt. He was no more than three 265 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: feet from us standing there, and we were actually I 266 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: was off the curb. The twins were behind me by 267 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: a tree where they were looking for bugs. I pushed 268 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: them back as fast as I could. He had to 269 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: be going fifty miles an hour in a parking lot. 270 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: Well you know, I got that tag number and the 271 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: twins are crying. It was the biggest mess. James Shelnutt. 272 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: We left immediately. Turns out he was from this privileged 273 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: family and we call police. Long story short, everything went 274 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: away and they took I think they took the truck 275 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: away from the kid for a while and that's what happened. 276 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: But that could be deadly. I mean, I don't blame 277 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: the parents for going and confront the same thing happened 278 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: to us in a parking lote Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 279 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about the brutal death, the stun gunning and 280 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: a knifing death of a father, a husband, a corrections officer. 281 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: I'm talking about William Timmy Durham Senior, just fifty one 282 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: years old and the prime of his life. Dead over one. 283 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: So they go over to Latham's home and start yelling 284 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: at him about swerving at their son. I don't blame them, 285 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: I mean, do you blame them? They didn't come over armed, 286 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: there was no gun. They didn't have a knife, they 287 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: didn't have a stun gun, nothing. No, I don't blame 288 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: them for two seconds. And you know they had initially 289 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: tried to call the police. Now, normally, when you look 290 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: at the situation like this from a law enforcement perspective, 291 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: you say, you know what, you shouldn't have gone over 292 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: to this person's house. You should have called the police. 293 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: They had already done that, and now this guy nearly 294 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: kills one of their family members. Yeah, I agree with you. 295 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: They're going to go up there and talk to him 296 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: about it. And this guy seems like he's producing his 297 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: own action movie through TikTok, and he's clearly provoking this situation, 298 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: clearly perpetuating this. I believe that he wanted them to 299 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: come up there, and he got what he wanted when 300 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: they showed up at his house. And I'll tell you 301 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: why I think that. I think you're right to Wendy Patrick, 302 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author, I've read Flags the book, host of 303 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: Live with Doctor Wendy on KCBQ. Wendy, he had his 304 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: girlfriend slash wife, the teenager named Sarah, who was recording 305 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: the entire thing for TikTok. She was recording because it 306 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: was her and Lathan's intent to post the videos and 307 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: become TikTok famous. In other words, when the Dirhams came 308 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: over to confront him about swerving at their son, she 309 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: was standing there with their phone recording the whole thing. 310 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: What about that they come over and then he runs in. 311 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: Latham runs in, the dad goes after not into the home, 312 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: over to the garage which is open. All on TikTok. Yeah, 313 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, the title of this could be a fatal 314 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: attraction to fame because it appears to have been staged 315 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: for the purpose of causing a conflict. Now, who would 316 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: have known how bad that conflict would have escalated? You know, 317 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: mister Latham is an eighteen year old nash Guard private. 318 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: He said, Bron, this isn't just some kid that doesn't 319 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: know any better. And so that's why when you have 320 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: somebody like this hundred miles an hour swerving at a 321 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: neighbor and probably emboldened that the police didn't stop him, 322 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: then you have to believe, you know, what was the 323 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: motive for provoking this is horribly avoidable conflict. And you're 324 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: absolutely right. The fact that it was being filmed simultaneously 325 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: only goes to show what his motives could have been. 326 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: You know, they're filming it so they can quote go 327 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: viral again, jointing me right now, Special guest, Doctor Kendall Crowns, 328 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin. Doctor Crowns, 329 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us and taking time away 330 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: literally from the autopsy table to be with us. How 331 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: quickly does it take for somebody to bleed out with 332 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: a stab wound. It depends on where the location of 333 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: the stab wound is, but it can be just a 334 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: matter of minutes anywhere from a couple of minutes to 335 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minute. But if you hit like a 336 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: major vessel like the sa moral ardor in your leg 337 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: or the order in your chest, you can be dead 338 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: within less than two minutes. You know, my old colleague 339 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: Rick Sanchez took a stun gun hit to prove how 340 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: debilitating it is. And it's my understanding Levi Page Crime 341 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: Online that this eighteen year old bratt first stun gun 342 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: mister Durham then stabbed him. Tell me what you know, Yes, Nancy, 343 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: he had a stun gun and he fired the stun 344 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: gun and is a warning to tell the Durham family 345 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: to leave him alone. The Durham family, they were not armed. 346 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: They were visibly unarmed, and he ended up getting into 347 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: a physical altercation with fifty two year old Michael Durham, 348 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: and that's when he stabbed him multiple times with the 349 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: knife that he had. You know, I want to circle 350 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: back to the second part of the I'm on one 351 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: call that we originally played, because I know for a fact, 352 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: according to all the witnesses and the police report, there 353 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: was not a weapon. Uh William quote Timmy Durham Senior 354 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: did not have a weapon. They were just all outside, 355 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: I guess in their yard. When Latham swerves at the sun, 356 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: it's our cut one sea. How are you injured? Sir? 357 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: Um my one play man and I got suckball and 358 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: killed a lay like ten people. And where are you 359 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: believing from? I don't know. The float all over me 360 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 1: even over there's a gridsman and get that guns. You're 361 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: never gonna kill us for nick team and my Garla's 362 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: gonna attack all of us. There's four people. Hold on 363 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: a second for the police. Okay, okay, I mean even 364 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: the nine one one dispatch operator knows something is wrong. 365 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: So you hear the in my mind what you hear, 366 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick is a defendant that Zachary Latham setting up 367 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,239 Speaker 1: a self defense. First he says there's ten people, then 368 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: it went down to four, and the despatch says, well, 369 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: where were you stabbed? And he goes, I don't know, 370 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, but there's blood all over me. He 371 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: wasn't stabbed, nothing happened to him, Wendy. Yeah, there might 372 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: be blood all over him, but it's not his blood, 373 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: and that's going to come back to get him when 374 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: this story gets out. And not only that, Nancy, but 375 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: as you point out, even the nine one one operator 376 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: is listening not only to his tone of voice, but 377 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: also to the inconsistency of his statement, and that's again 378 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: going to come back to buy item. This is just 379 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: not the kind of nine one one call that screams 380 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: the kind of credibility that you would need to believe 381 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: exactly what he's saying, particularly because he's asked if he's injured, 382 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: he's asked if he's bleeding, and the answer to gids 383 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: are completely non responsive to reflect maybe the reality that 384 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: he's covered with the victim's blood, but certainly not that 385 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: he was the victim. So do doctor Kinneall Crowns. I 386 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: was talking about my polleague taking a taser to show 387 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: how to building it. It's painful. What this guy, the victim, 388 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: William Timmy Durham Senior, was tazard and stab dead. What 389 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: does a taser do to you? Well, and taser will 390 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: disrupt you. You're basically your brain or your neurological system 391 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: and causes you to collapse. It also causes intense pain. 392 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: So the people that I've seen tazared on videos, they 393 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: usually contract fairly heavily and scream out and then fall 394 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: to the ground. So it not only causes you to 395 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: have pain, but it also causes you to contract involuntarily. 396 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: Another thing that makes me believe this was all set 397 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: up to psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold. Doctor Arnold, the girlfriend 398 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: slash wife of the brat, her name is Sarah, said, 399 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: you guys better back off because you're you're not gonna 400 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: like what's coming out of the house. Seems like she 401 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: already knew he was coming out with a tazer and 402 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: a knife. Yeah, sounds like this they had actuated to 403 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: more than what it should have. Oh my goodness, And 404 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: what I mean does that speak to premeditated. Nancy, Well, yeah, 405 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: when you lure someone in, leave my page. Mister Durham 406 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: was tassard and he was stabbed. Do you know where 407 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: he was stabbed? He was stabbed multiple times. I think 408 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: he was around his chest. I know he had a 409 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: wound underneath his arm. Fit and now this family is 410 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: left without their dad. Doctor Kendall Crowns, how quickly would 411 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: he have bled out? Multiple stabbed ones to the chest 412 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: and under the arm. That looks like you may have 413 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: been aiming for the heart but got under the arms. 414 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: So the chest, you're gonna hit the lungs as well 415 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: as the heart and possibly the major vessels going into 416 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: the heart. So he's going to bleed out and probably 417 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: under a minute plus if he's stabbed under the arm, 418 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: that's gonna also collapse along. It's gonna make him make 419 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: it heart for him to breathe, So it would be 420 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: quite painful and he'd die relatively quickly, and the family 421 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: all just standing there watching their husband, their dad die. 422 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Guys a corrections officer, now 423 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: Dad over a confrontation with a neighbor who wanted TikTok fame. 424 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Haward Monroe at CBS 425 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: three Philly Time stopped in violent New Jersey Saturday as 426 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: they said goodbye to one of their own. Corrections Officer 427 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: William Durham, who was known by friends and family as Timmy, 428 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: was killed while off duty on Monday. Timmy was a 429 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: great man. He was a great officer, a family man. Officer. 430 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: Durham's widow, Catherine, was guided by their two children to 431 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: greet the procession of cars. Because of social distancing guidelines, 432 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: New Jersey isn't allowing more than ten people to gather 433 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: at once, so on a cold and blistery day, friends 434 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: and supporters came to them. Missus Durham made sure to 435 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: wave to every car and tap her heart. He would say, 436 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: this is too much. He always called me, gee, gee, 437 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: this is way too much. He don't do this. He 438 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: was always about other people. Michael Gallagher is a longtime 439 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: friend of Durham's and the vice president of their union. 440 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: Durham worked at the Southwoods State Prison. The three hundred 441 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: car procession was led by a New Jersey State Police helicopter. 442 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: Totally senseless, completely senseless. Now this guy is dead and 443 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: I got another little surprise for you. I think that 444 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: the brat, Zachary Latham. Now remember a stunned gun the dad. 445 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Then he stabbed him multiple times even though the dad 446 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: was unarmed. I don't know how they're considering that to 447 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: be voluntary manslaughter not murder. But to top it all off, 448 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: here you have a prior post. Listen to this, Wendy Patrick, 449 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: James shellnot you're the lawyers on today. A separate clip 450 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: is a warning from the brat, Zachary Latham. I got 451 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: a knife, dude, and he has a previous post holding 452 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: a gun and says this is how you handle neighbors. 453 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: He has a gun, this is how you handle neighbors. 454 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: And that was before he stabbed his neighbor dead. I 455 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: mean to me, that's all you need to show a jury. 456 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. Yeah, that's what we call her. This pretty 457 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: good circumstantial evidence of intent, which is what a jury 458 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: is going to be looking at. You know, to how 459 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: a neighbor few turn fatal is not the way you 460 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: handle neighbors. And it's a sad state of the affair 461 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: the society that so many followers would be laking posts 462 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: or following post, retweeting, or reposting something that would advocate 463 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: that kind of violence, and the widow says, people are 464 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: driving by our home, revving their engines just just to 465 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: make it worse. Now, Jamie Shelnutt, now lawyer prior to 466 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: that twenty seven years Metro major case, isn't it true? 467 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: Under the law, intent to commit an act such as 468 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: murder can be either express or implied. Express intent under 469 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: the law is when you say I'm going to kill you, 470 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: or you expressly convey you want to kill. Implied intent 471 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: it's when you do an act that speaks for itself, 472 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: you stab someone multiple times, or you post a TikTok 473 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: saying this is how you take care of neighbors and 474 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: show yourself with a gun. I think that is implied intent. 475 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: I think you're one hundred percent correct, and I agree 476 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: with you. I think that when the jury sees, if 477 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: the prosecution's got any sense, if the jury sees this 478 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: video of him holding a gun saying this is how 479 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: you take care of neighbors, I think it's liked out 480 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: for this kid. You know what's scary to me is 481 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: that this kid, you know, supposedly in the National Guard, 482 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: has access to weapons in that role. Um, this kid 483 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: needs some help. He's a kid. Will you please quit 484 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: saying that he's not a kid. This young adult needs 485 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: some help and it is scary to me in that 486 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: position those types of weapons. Well, I said, he can 487 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: get it behind bars. But as a matter of fact, 488 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: Leavi Page, he's not behind bars. You're absolutely correct, Nancy. 489 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: A judge granted his release, and this is what the 490 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: judge wrote in their ruling. The state did not meet 491 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: its burden to detain that there are no conditions that 492 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: would reasonably assure the defendants appearance in court when required 493 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: the section of the safety of any other person in 494 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: the community, and the defendant will not obstruct our attempt 495 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: to obstruct the criminal justice process. Therefore, the defendant is 496 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: released on level to monitoring. Therefore, the motion for pre 497 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: trial detention is denied and Latham is released. He's now 498 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: in Florida now, and there were no monetary conditions attached 499 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: to his release either, so he's already flowed the jurisdiction. 500 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: He's in Florida, Jackie, you're waiving something at me about 501 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: he's continuing to post. Could you show me that again, please, 502 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: So this guy has actually walked free from behind bars. 503 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: I wonder what brilliant judge did that. Oh, he's been 504 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: posting on the Durham's friends social media since he's gotten out. 505 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: Now see right there. To me, that's intimidating witnesses. Are 506 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: you familiar with that, James shell Nutt intimidating witnesses. That's 507 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: what you're not supposed to do when you're all bond. Oh, 508 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with it, and I have seen it 509 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: happy many times. You know. And in addition to intimidating witnesses, 510 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy had a twenty eight years of a 511 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: legal career between working as a detective working as an attorney. 512 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,959 Speaker 1: I have dealt with a lot of situations to where 513 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: people killed someone and it was legally justified, whether it's 514 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: through investigation, to fans or otherwise. You got the twenty 515 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: eight years of doing that. I have never seen a 516 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: person who justified would killed another person turn around afterwards 517 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: and harass the victim's family. That is just completely opposite 518 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: of what I have seen throughout my career. And it 519 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: goes further to me to show what his true friend 520 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: the mind was and what is who's this judge? Leave 521 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: a page? I researched it and I can't remember his name. 522 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: What judge let this guy go? I mean, this family 523 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: must feel like there ain't no justice at all to 524 00:34:53,440 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: then let Latham walk. And now he's taunting the victims 525 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: family and friends on social media? Can he not stop himself? 526 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: Do you know the judge's name? I don't have the 527 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: judge's name in front of me, Nancy. But the conditions 528 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: of his release were so lenient that he was even 529 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: allowed to leave the state, Nancy. And another aspect of 530 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: this that has a lot of people confused is that 531 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: Latham is using a public defender, but in his TikTok 532 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: videos he brags about the sports cars that he has, 533 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: including a Corvette, which is not very cheap. So people 534 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 1: are wondering, if you drive a Corvette at eighteen years old, 535 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: why do you have a public defender as well? So 536 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: that's another aspect of this case. People are questionable. Apparently 537 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: a Vineland man charged in neighbor's death can stay free 538 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: until trial, says an appellate court in New Jersey court. 539 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: They've backed up the judge. I just can't believe it. 540 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: The public defender is representing him. As you said, it's 541 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: Superior Court Judge William Ziegler rubber stamped the defendant's request 542 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: to walk free, and now the defendant is out mocking 543 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: and taunting the victim's friends on social media. This is 544 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: not the first time a thug or a criminal has 545 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: used TikTok to get famous. Take a listen to Jason 546 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: Dennis and Barbara Gawkler at w VTM nine News. The 547 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: arrest comes just two days after taunting law enforcement on 548 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: social media app TikTok. William Reeves Durga posted a video 549 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: on TikTok with the caption come and get me, stating 550 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: he was wanted by a police. Well. That video was 551 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: viewed nearly four million times and got nearly one million likes. 552 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: Dur Guy is being charged with possession of cocaine and 553 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: use of a communication facility during the charge of a felony. 554 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: Seven others were arrested in late June after an undercover 555 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: investigation in Lagrange at Main Street Pub. More rest are expected. Well, 556 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: that's just felony. Stupid. He posts this online with all 557 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: his dope and says come and get me. Well they did. Now, 558 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: take a listen how TikTok played a role in discovering 559 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: two dead bodies in suitcase. Listen to our friend Graham 560 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: Johnson k I r O. Seven hours before Seattle Police 561 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: put up crime Seed team to investigate the discovery of 562 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: human remains at duwamish Ed. It appears a group of 563 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: young people made a video of that discovery. So he 564 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: just found the suitcase and we're gonna get in opening 565 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: it up with the sticks. They added music and graphics 566 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: and put it on TikTok Oh my God to wash over. 567 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: So we called the police twice to spend two hours 568 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: of the waters like riping. In a blog post on Friday, 569 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: Seattle Police wrote, detectives are investigating several bags containing human remains. 570 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: Can you imagine seeing that TikTok of teens out shooting 571 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: videos and they find the remains of your mother or 572 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: your father, dead bodies in a suitcase and they're opening 573 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: it up with a stick, and the music's playing in 574 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: the background like it's a music video. Well, this is 575 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 1: the latest that we know of in the current case. 576 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: The case in chief Zachary Latham on bond as we 577 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: await justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend